Paranormal Spectrum #78 Paranormal Encounters of Dartmoor with Guest David Phillips

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 6 (03:03):
Good morning everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of
the Paranormal Spectrum here on the Untold Radio Network. Good
morning Lee, Good morning flat Rock, and good morning my
I think that's what it is. I tried to read that,
so hey, welcome to the show today. We are live,
as you can tell, because we're you know, starting late

(03:24):
in technical difficulties and stuff, so definitely live. My guest
has another technical difficulty, just pop back out again, so
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rolling here. So with that being said, let's get to it.
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But guys, it is time for our awesome guests today.
Well let's get to it all right, guys. Our guest

(05:40):
here today, David Phillips is originally from Bristol. David spent
three years at the Mountainville Mountain View Theater School in
London before arriving in oh This is going to be
one of those where you ask people to read things
from Wisconsin, so Padgington after graduating in nineteen eighty seven

(06:01):
to perform in a summer season at the Palace Avenue Theater, Haven,
falling in love with the wilds of Dartmoor and finding
that the area had plenty to arouse his interest in
paranormal activity, he stayed in Tour Bay and has immersed
himself in all the myths and legends and spooky stories
that the area has to offer. He has even set

(06:22):
up his own paranormal investigation group, tip Torbay Investigators of
the Paranormal, back in nineteen ninety five, which holds regular meetings.
During COVID, David left his box office manager's job at
the Princess Theater to set up his own tour guiding business,
Moors and More tours to share his love for all
things Dartmoor and the supernatural with anyone who wished to

(06:45):
hire his services. Not only does it include tours in
an eight seater vehicle, but last year he added a
series of ghost walks to his repertoire around various Dartmoor towns.
He is also available for speaking at many clubs and
groups and writes for the Torbay Weekly and Moorlander. He
is a storyteller that can also be heard on Thursday

(07:08):
mornings featured on David Hammond's radio show The Riviera. F
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show, all the
way from Dartmore, UK. David Phillips, Welcome to the show man,
Thank you for being here.

Speaker 7 (07:27):
Paja, Yes, yes, looking forward to this.

Speaker 6 (07:31):
Well, we have been having a lovely chat before the
show already, so I'm really excited to hear all about
you know, everything you got going on? What's besides theater,
I mean, like theater in itself. I don't think that
I've walked into a theater that isn't got some haunted
history or anything. What got you into all this stuff?

Speaker 7 (07:53):
Well? This goes back, Oh here we go. This goes
back when I was younger, let me have a quick for.

Speaker 6 (08:03):
It keeps freezing on him, so he'll be right back.
That's that's the reason we started late year there.

Speaker 7 (08:09):
We go right so well, my parents they got married
in nineteen sixty two. They came down to the Southwest
and to Dartmoor for a honeymoon, did a few trips
over the moors, and then nine months later I was born.
So I like to think that Dartmoor is in my

(08:30):
DNA as a result of that. And then as I
was growing up, I always had an interest in all
things sort of you know, spooky, and I would get
out the local ghost books. As soon as we went
to a new place, I'd buy the local ghost book,
get out by dad's map and then put a ring
round all the things mentioned in it, and then I'd say,

(08:52):
this is where we're going for the next two weeks, guys.
And I was quite lucky in that they humored me,
and we did get to see a lot of old
spooky castles and houses in those formative years. So that's
kind of where it started. And then I did it
exactly the same thing when I came down to Devon
and found myself on the doorstep of Dartmoor again back

(09:14):
in nineteen eighty seven, and one of the other places
that was mentioned in the book that I bought was
very Pomeroy Castle, which is allegedly one of the most
haunted castles in England, but then a lot of places
claim that, But anyway it is, it's got full of
stories and I've had a few more experiences there. But

(09:34):
it was a result of finding that on my doorstep
and meeting some like minded friends that we got together
and TIP was formed the Torbay Investigators, the Paranormal and
I can honestly say since ninety five up until COVID,
because then everything changed then. But up until then I'd

(09:55):
been meeting with my friends and anybody that come and
join us in a pub on a Monday night to
talk spooky stuff. So yeah, ninety five till COVID, that's
quite a big chunk of my life. So that's how
immersed I've been into the subject. And now since COVID
and leaving my job at the theater, I've now set
up my business to try and share that knowledge and

(10:18):
my interest in Dartmoor and folklore with anybody that wants
to come along. And you know, either come in my
eight seat vehicle or come on a walk around Dartmoor towns.
So yeah, it's there. I just want to share the knowledge.

Speaker 6 (10:34):
That's awesome. I feel like when we talk about the
most haunted places in the US, it's always like the
East Coast because that is the oldest that has the
most history, you know, New England up in there, and
then Coastline and stuff, and I think Europe and England
and stuff have a lot more of this stuff because
you have too much history. I feel like there's just yeah,

(10:57):
everything is haunted. And I love that when when you
talk about over here you talk like, oh, there's a
haunted asylum or the haunted persons and stuff, and you're like, oh,
there's haunted castles, and that's just that's sets the bar
right there to go, Well, you guys got totally different stuff.
I mean a hearted castle, that's that's you have like

(11:18):
what don't want to say, like you know, the storming
of the castles and the who owns the castle and
all that stuff, and so you got to have a
lot lot more history there.

Speaker 7 (11:28):
But it's interesting because very Poma Castle that was basically
a glorified home with you know, backlements there was no
no history of it being bombarded or besieged, even though
stories you know are made up about it. But it's
just the ruin now because it just fell apart. It
was never finished, and then all the locals came along

(11:51):
and used it as a building site. They just take
away a lot of the brickwork and the window frames
and just use it in their own structures. And there's
a good story. One of the main ghosts, Very Pomero,
is the white Lady. You see her, and supposedly it's
a portent of death, so all that good juicy stuff.
But there's a building just up the road called Barton

(12:13):
Pines and the builder of that took some of the
window frames and built it into his new structure. And
there's stories over the years that the White Lady has
been seen there coming back to claim her window frames.
But yeah, it's all of makes up a good story.

(12:34):
And I'm in the business of of, you know, being
a storyteller. You know, I like to find the juiciest
bit to entertain people with, but I always like to
look for the nugget of truth in any story, and
that's what I go with.

Speaker 6 (12:49):
That's awesome. I love a good story. So I think
I love I love UK, I love England and stuff,
but I don't know a lot of the spooky stuff
over there. So I'm gonna let you taken away and
tell us. You know, what are what are the more
juicy stories, what are your what excites you about there?

Speaker 7 (13:07):
Well, yeah, no, Palmar, you just touched on. But the
stories on Dartmoor there again, as I said, they're they're
like folklore and they've been around for years. Back in
the day when used to have tin miners on the moors,
back in the Middle Ages, and they would be dotted

(13:27):
all over the wilderness, you know, you know, digging for
tin or streaming it in the rivers, and you can
imagine them sort of at night in the little sort
of stone huts that they built for themselves where they
lived and they worked for long periods of time. You've
just imagine them sitting around their little fire with their friends,
you know, entertaining each other with these stories. All the

(13:52):
juicy are the better, really, and those stories have been
passed down and I'm now sort of picking up on
the on the ones in the area that I'm studying,
and yeah, it's just there for the taking and for
the sharing. And one of my recent discoveries, or something

(14:13):
i've named anyway, is what I like to call the
Witches Triangle, which are three points in a certain area
of the more all with associations with witchcraft. And one
of the more famous is a place known as Jay's Grave,
which is a little grave with a headstone beside the road,
not in a graveyard, because sadly, she committed suicide and

(14:36):
this was in the days when suicides were allowed a
Christian burial, and she's just dumped in a hole in
the ground beside the road at a crossroads. You've got
like a Mainish road and a little track that goes
across it, forming the crossroads. And the idea was that
suicides were placed here so that their spirits wouldn't come

(14:57):
back and haunt the living. So that's her story. And
then when the landowner hearing people saying, oh, the place
is haunted, we're not going to go there at night
sort of thing, he went to find out for himself
and he dug a hole and he found the body
of a young girl with child because she committed suicide
because she was pregnant. Out of wedlocks again another cardinal

(15:18):
sin and when he found the body, he reburied it
with a mound and a headstone that's there today. And
then this story came up that fresh flowers were always
found on the grave and there was a local storyteller
or author called missus Bray and supposedly she was the

(15:40):
one who came along and started this myth by placing
flowers on it. But supposedly if you go there at
midnight and a mist or come down, and then when
it rises, there'll be this fresh display of flowers. There
no been there many times day and night, and no,
no myths comes down, and no flowers magically up here.

(16:01):
So it's you know, it's locals or passing visitors that
come and lay flowers there. But over the years, in
the early days, it wasn't just flowers. I came across
little figurines and they were like there was a Paddington
bear winning the Pooh Yogi bear, so like figurines are bears.

(16:22):
And then I think it was a pluto, so that
there was like dogs as well. So not they weren't.
I don't believe they were left there for you know,
Kitty j or or the child. That would be more
like you'd dive, a teddy bear or a doll maybe,
but these are specific figurines. And when I did a
bit of research, you'd come across the goddess Hecate, who's

(16:44):
a goddess worshiped by witches and pagans, and her domain
is the crossroads and the dead, and her familiars are
dogs and bears. So I think these figurines were being
specifically left to honor her and were then being removed,
taken back home and then used in rituals, having been

(17:05):
energized by the the lunar cycle. So that was my
discovery there. And then if you travel one of the
paths leading away from the grave, you come to a
place called hain Down and hain Rocks, and in a
monthst that you've got a solitary column of granite that's

(17:27):
known as the Bowerman's nose. It looks like it's got
a big nose. And supposedly his story was that he
was a local hunter and he upset a coven of
witches one day. He rode his horse and took his
hounds through their patch and spilled their caldrons, etc. And

(17:47):
obviously they weren't best pleased, so they decided to get
their revenge, so next time, when they heard that the
Bowerman was out and about on his horse, they hatched
a plot where one of their sisters turned herself into
a hare and allowed herself to be chased by him
across the moor, and she led him back to this

(18:08):
same spot amongst the rocks, and when he rode amongst them,
the witches jumped out cast a spell turning him to stone,
which is where he stands to this day. And his
hounds escaped as far as a place now known as
han Tour and that's where they were finally turned to stone.
So you've got two areas of rocky outcrops, all associated

(18:31):
witchcraft as well. So that's the base and then the
pinnacle you can see from the grave, and it's a
place called Eastern Hill, quite a steep hill with again
outcrops of rock on it. And there's in Cornwall you've
got a place called the boss Castle Witchcraft Museum, which

(18:54):
I've been to many many times, and there's one exhibit
that's a human skull strapped to a red pentagram on
a tripod and this is one of the exhibits, and
when you read the blurb it says it used to
belong to a wise woman called Granny Man, and she

(19:14):
used to live in a place called North Buvey, which
is just down the hill from this eastern hill. And
supposedly this skull was her friend, and every time people
would come to her to ask for spell castings or rituals,
she'd always say, oh, I've got to consult my friend.

(19:35):
And back in those days, it wasn't good to have,
you know, paraphernalia of witchcraft, you know, visible in your house.
So this particular skull was kept up on the hill,
hidden away, and she would go there to do her rituals.
And when I read this, I thought, well, obviously the
skull is in the museum, but maybe there's you know,

(19:58):
a sign that, yeah, where her altar was or whatever,
where she might have done her deeds. So I went
for a walk in the area, and sure enough, in
the gorse line near the foot of the hill, whre
there's a footpath, there is a nice outcrop with a
canopy that juts out, and below it is like a
little rocky shelf where you could imagine this skull and

(20:22):
her candles spread out, and then underneath there is a
little sort of cubby hole where the skull could have
been kept out of sight while she was, you know,
rather taking it to him from home. That's where she
kept it. And a friend of mine, I asked her
if this sounded could be the right spot, and she said, well,
she'd also need a sight of a rising full moon.

(20:45):
And sure enough, from there you look out towards Hator,
which is a rather famous outcrop on Dartmoor, and that's
where the moon rises, and you've got a perfect view
of that. And yeah, that's what I think is Granny
Man's altar. And so that's my witch is triangle, and

(21:05):
I quite happy to take people on walks to go
and explore that part of them all. So that's part
of my repertoire, as it were.

Speaker 6 (21:16):
We have a comment here It says I have seen
the White Lady at Berry Palm More and saw flowers
left at the crossroads in snow with no footprints.

Speaker 7 (21:27):
Yes, that's a good friend of mine, Maya. She was
the friend that I just referred to giving me tips
on witchcraft and stuff. Yes, her story is very interesting.
Her first visit to the castle, there's a windy lane
that you have to go down to get there. And

(21:47):
as she approached the bottom, she could see up into
one of the high windows, and she saw a figure
in white, and her first thought was what a silly
outfit to wear walking around a dirty old castle. It
was only when she got inside and saw there were
no flaws above that she realized that there couldn't be

(22:07):
anybody standing up there. And then when you heard the stories,
she realized that she'd seen the white lady. As I said,
is supposedly a portent of death. But as you can see,
May is still very much alive as she's replying to
our show.

Speaker 6 (22:24):
So yeah, wow, yes, so is there You know in
the US we have the Salem witch trials, and I
know that there is a lot more witch trials and
even were wolf trials over in the UK. So is
Dartmoor seems to be kind of really famous for witches?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Is it?

Speaker 7 (22:45):
There is activity? But of course Startmore is also famous
for its antiquities. We've got stone circles and stone rows
and these were constructed by our ancestors that would have
been pagan in origin, and that was their places of worship,
so I believe. And so yeah, so that sort of

(23:09):
thought has been passed down through the ages and today's
you know, witches and pagans still use these sites to
worship on and several years ago now, I was up
there at the winter solstice, and I've been I do
a thing called letterboxing, which is you know geocaching. Yep, yeah,

(23:33):
well this is letterboxing is the original. It dates from
the eighteen hundreds and was founded on Darkmoor and is
very specifically dark More based. Anyway, that's my hobby that
gets me out and about and visiting the moors. But
this particular evening was getting dark and I was in
an area called Belston, and there's an area there called

(23:56):
nine Maiden Stone Circle, And as I got close to it,
I could see there were like lit torches like I
could hear dogs barking, and I could see there were
people at the circle, and I thought obviously doing a
winter Solstice ritual. So I thought, well, I won't disturb them.
I'll take another route and avoid them. And they left

(24:18):
the circle at the same time, and we both reached
the moorgate exactly the same moment, and it was a
group of women wearing beautiful cloaks with moons and star
sym was all over it. Obviously been doing you know,
winter Solstice ritual and we sort of you know, hello,
nice to see you, and they'd all park their cars
next to me, so you know, we had a little
chat before they went off. So yeah, so definitely, which

(24:42):
is still do their thing up on Dartmoor So yeah.
And near in Exeter was where I live now. There's
a place called Rougemont Castle which had a courthouse in
it and there's a plaque on the wall saying this
was where some witches were tried and found guilty and

(25:03):
taken off to a place that's now known as Heavy Tree,
the idea being they were hung from a tree that
would have been heavy with the bodies of those that
were executed there. And that is still a part of Exeter.
So yeah, witches and trials, yes they are. They are
big in the Devon area, but not not so much

(25:26):
from the ghostly point of view, but very much in
the sort of psyche that they were here. And as
I said that they're rituals that are still practiced to
this day. So yeah, that's that's another part of Dartmoor
that I can show people should they wish to come
and visit.

Speaker 6 (25:45):
Very cool. So it seems like you're you're very A
lot of paganism still celebrated and worshiped.

Speaker 7 (25:54):
Over, indeed. Yes. Yeah. And one of my other little
pet subjects is a thing called the Devil's Door. Have
you ever heard of that? Yeah, this is on churches,
This is on old original churches. And the idea was

(26:20):
that during the ritual of baptism, that the devil was
exorcised from the great unwashed, and he would exit via
the north door of a church. And so they all
got a bit worried that, yeah, he exited via that door,
so could he come back in or could he still
be hanging around outside. So the door was kept locked

(26:43):
until such days as they were having baptisms, in which
case they were opened wide to let them out, and
then it was shut again. Now, when Pagans were invited
into the church, they actually enter their stone circles from
the north and they'll exit and enter through a north

(27:03):
the north side of a circle. So when they're invited
to come into the church by the Christians the Catholics,
they were allowed to use this north door, the Devil's door,
and the idea was that they would become Christian, but
a lot of them didn't convert and so Catholics didn't

(27:24):
really want them around. So when there was decree made
by the Protestants that this door was to be sealed
up and never to be used again to stop all
this sort of Catholic superstition. And because the Pagans have
been allowed to use this door, I think they got
tired with the same brush because it was known as

(27:44):
the devil's door and they used it. Therefore, Pagans, witches,
what have you, were all then associated with the devil,
and that that was the start of their persecution, as
it were. And now I'm being persecuted because it's frozen again.

Speaker 6 (28:01):
Hang on, yep, you'll be right back. Yeah, that's yeah,
that's fascinating. I've I've heard of like many devil's doors,
like as far as like locations that are, you know,

(28:22):
the doorways to Hell or whatever, but I've never heard
I've never heard it about the churches. That's that's fascinating.

Speaker 7 (28:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's only something that i've I've found out
recently and in the forteen Times magazine, and the person
who wrote it suggested that this was anomaly mainly in
the home counties or further north in the country, but
I thought, well, if that was like a national decree,
then surely all churches of that period would have been
affected by it. So I've now made it my mission

(28:50):
to go in search of the Devil's Door. And uh, yeah,
every time I go to a new church, I look
on the north side and to see if there's this
sealed up doorway, and it is quite when it's there,
you've got you've still got the archway, but everything inside
the archway has been bricked up, usually in the same
stone work as the church itself. So obviously it became,

(29:10):
you know, a thing back in the day when this
decree was made. Yeah, and it's yeah, it's a Facebook
page called in Search of the Devil's Door, So you know,
I like to encourage people that come across one to
take a picture and add it to my collection. That's interesting.
It's on you can google it the Devil's Door. And

(29:31):
the picture that you you see first isn't a devil's door.
I visited the church where the picture was taken, but
that's actually the door to the bell tower, whereas the
Devil's Door is actually on the north side and they've
even got floor plans. This is a place called broad
Hempstone Church just off Dartmoor. There's a floor plan inside

(29:55):
the church that actually labels the Devil's door, and it's
not the door in the picture of the church. But
in this case it's still opened. And apparently this part
of England was very staunch Catholic, so when the Protestants
decreed that they should be sealed up, they rebelled and

(30:18):
they kept theirs open and it's still Whether it's still
usable today, I don't know, but it's not been sealed
up and it's even as I said, it's marked on
their floor plan, so it is part of the the
recognized structure of the church. So it is a thing.

Speaker 6 (30:32):
That's really cool. I wonder I've never heard of that
like here in the US, So I don't know if.

Speaker 7 (30:39):
It would have been why it really Christian? Yeah, yeah,
so that wouldn't That wouldn't have traveled because it wasn't
a thing by the time obviously still there on our churches,
but it wasn't an idea that would have traveled. Well,
I don't suppose, because it wasn't no longer yea necessary

(31:00):
because they'd all been bricked up and you wouldn't take
a bricked up door with you, so they.

Speaker 6 (31:05):
Go pretty cool. I love that. That's that's a fascinating
piece of history there. Yeah, awesome. Do you You you
also do investigating as well, don't you.

Speaker 7 (31:18):
Yes, that's that's how it all started for me. Sorry,
I'm just I'm making sure this is turned off because.

Speaker 6 (31:27):
Keeps gentleman.

Speaker 7 (31:28):
Yeah, hopefully.

Speaker 6 (31:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (31:31):
So that that was back in ninety five, some friends
and I got together and formed TIP, as I said,
and we did go off and do investigations in the
early days, and myself and my two friends David Adrian
were very sort of cynical, skeptical, and so everything had

(31:52):
to be filmed and documented. We didn't we went into gadgets,
you know, we're not that group, but we do like
to document what we find. And we did get invited
some really interesting places and we even got hoaxed once somebody.

(32:13):
This was this was our first real major investigation, and
our equipment was set up and we would lock the
place up, go to the pub, come back and play
back our tapes. And there were all these weird noises appearing,
which we fell into the trap of thinking, well, these
actually could be related to the haunting. As we knew it,

(32:33):
and then eventually we were told that somebody was hoaxing
it for us. So that was a sort of steep
learning curve. So after that all our equipment was to
be monitored every time we set it up, and so
that's what we did. And then after many years I

(32:54):
started working with mediums. They were like, my, we're right back.
Here we go and so then we were like sitting
around in the dark looking at our TV screens, whereas

(33:16):
all the mediums were off interacting with the spirits of
the properties we were in. And I thought, well, that
sounds like a lot more fun than just sitting here
watching our screens. So we then I started sort of
following the mediums round and recording more of what they
were getting and we we now work with a team

(33:37):
of mediums, and thankfully to Maya, she was the one
that helped train some of the girls in the group
to use their their skills that they were developing. And
now they go around a property individually, they make notes
of anything they pick up on, and then we come
to debrief at the end of the night, and where

(33:59):
they agree, then that's where you know there's obviously something
worth researching and following. Up on. So that that's how
we operate now, and yeah, that that gives us a
lot more to share than just sitting in the dark
looking at a TV screen. I love, but it's you know,

(34:21):
I go with as long as we can research and
then back up what the mediums come up with, then
that's that's all part of what we do.

Speaker 6 (34:30):
Cool. So, where has been your most active or interesting
locations that you've investigated?

Speaker 7 (34:38):
We again, Barry Pomeroy keeps cropping up because that, yeah,
there's quite a few stories there. We were one of
the last group to be allowed access to it before
the powers that be said oh there's no more ghosts here,
nothing to see, and it's like, well, you know, you
can't deny that. You know, the history books there is
a long history of hauntings here. But you know, the

(34:59):
Jugos who owns it and the English Heritage that run
it for him, they were trying to discourage that side
of things. But unfortunately there is a way in, but
we won't go into that here on Yeah, not that
we've used it, but you know people do. But yeah,
I said, we were last in to do a nighttime

(35:19):
visit and whilst I was walking down some steps onto
a terrace overlooking the brook at the back of the building.
I looked up at the wall and one of these
old frames, and in the bottom left hand corner there
was this little light there. Whether it was a candle
or whatever, I don't know, but it was there one

(35:42):
second and gone the next. Either it been snuffed out
or someone has shut a door on it. But obviously,
knowing the interior of the building, there is no flaws
on that level for anybody who's standing there. So what
that light was don't know, but it was definitely there
on that evening, so that's a an anomaly. Then there's

(36:03):
my own personal ghost sighting.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
This was.

Speaker 7 (36:10):
Place called Sorely Tunnel, which is an old abandoned railway
tunnel that got shut down back in the sixties, but
it's on the land belonging to people that turned it
into an adventure center for kids, and it became Spooky
World and you could walk the half a mile long
tunnel and back again, and it was quite spooky. So

(36:33):
we were investigating that long story short, we came back
on a second attempt with another group of investigators to
have another go at it, thinking the place had been
shut down and the owners would be new, but it
was the same owners, and they remembered our visit and
they were quite happy for us to come again. And
the night we went, I walked into the hallway of

(36:56):
their farmhouse because they let us come in and wait
for our rest of our team to arrive. And as
I looked into their front room, there was what, first
of all, I thought was like a jumper had been
left on the floor behind the sofa, and then when
I looked, this little head came up and we'd flopy
ears and I could see it was a dog. And

(37:17):
then a cat came running in jumped over the dog
onto the back of the sofa, and I thought, what
the family pets? Fair enough walked into their front room,
and by this time everybody else had gathered and in
front of the fireplace with this other big black labrador,
and everybody else was making the first of that. And
after a while I said to the owners, while you're
making a first of your other dog. And they looked

(37:39):
a bit sad, and they said, well, we didn't have
another dog, but sadly she died ten days ago and
we've just buried her in the garden. So I said, well,
what's this behind your sofa and there was nothing there.
And they then showed me a portrait of the dog
and that's what i'd seen, was their dog lying on
the floor behind the sofa, and no one else has

(38:02):
seen it, just me. So yeah, that's that's my shaggy
dog story, as it were.

Speaker 6 (38:12):
Yeah, you'll be right back at least it's quick right
back in. That's good good internet over there, so even
if it freezes, he pops back quick. So and as
I said that, now it's not so you know, it happens,

(38:34):
Lisas it is really cool that mediums and psychics are
taken as a real profession in the UK and not
entertainers like here in the US.

Speaker 7 (38:44):
Well yeah, funny should say that, because you know, if
you're a Derek a Korra most haunted. He was their
medium of choice and they encouraged him, shall we say,

(39:05):
to make things look a bit more interesting. So he
came up with his Possession of the week and after
that he got sacked. But I believe he did have
a gift and he actually performed a couple of times
at the theater while I was working there, and I
went to see him and one night he was standing

(39:28):
on stage and he said, oh, I've got a grandfather
figure here. I've got a mister Phillips, and where's David.
I was like, hello, Derek, I'm up here. And he
then brought through my grandparents and gave me really good
messages from them. So yeah, I do believe he had
a gift, but he sold out for fame and fortune.

(39:50):
And unfortunately, yes, we do have to label mediumship as
an entertainment as a result of that. So yeah, we
are tired with this brush unfortunately over here.

Speaker 6 (40:03):
Do you have like a lot of television series over
there in the UK as far as like the paranormal
and stuff, or I assume you have some of the
same stuff that we do here.

Speaker 7 (40:12):
Yeah, we do. Yes, they're they're all available over here,
so yes, yes there are. I tend to avoid it,
you know. I do what I do, and if I
don't agree with with somebody else's methods of working, I'd
rather not see what they do than tear my hair out.

(40:33):
Because unfortunately, this most Haunted program they once did a
live weekend broadcast which they called Terror in Torbay, and
they visited several haunted spots. They paid for people to
leave their homes, you know, so they could set up
their equipment, so it was a bit of a shambles,

(40:56):
and we actually watched them put this out live in
they called the Hub in one of our local leisure centers.
And yeah, pantomime wasn't the word for it, but it was. Yeah,
it was quite amusing because on they were there Friday
to Monday, and on the Friday night they went to

(41:17):
a place called Lupton House, not far from where we
used to have our meetings, and Derrek was taken in there.
They took him down into the basement area where the
activity was supposed to take place, and he went into
one of his you know moments, and he said, oh,
I've got the Pomroy sisters here, and it was almost

(41:39):
like their researcher jabbed him in the ribs and then
shut up. Derek. That's on Monday, because sure enough, that's
where they went on Monday, was to bury Pomorroy Castle.
And again when they took Derek down, if the dungeons
were supposedly activity happens, and he said, oh, I've got
the Pomroy sisters here and there skeptic said, but you

(42:01):
said that on Friday Derek did, I. Oh, well, they're
definitely here now. So that's what you get with.

Speaker 6 (42:13):
I don't know. I like the TV shows because it
gets people interested in it and stuff, but there's there's
very few that I would say are are worth anything
everybody else. Like, I've worked with a couple of shows
and stuff, and unfortunately some of them are good and bad.
But for the most they just try and sensationalize everything.
You know, there's there's some rich history, I mean, especially

(42:35):
over in the UK and stuff that you don't need
to sensationalize things. Just tell the focal and it's so interesting.

Speaker 7 (42:43):
Yeah, And unfortunately you guys are very uh quick to
go to the devil and demons and stuff like that.
And I've got a demon in the works here tonight.
Hang on.

Speaker 6 (43:03):
Right back after this message, I gotta make little click
messages for the stuff, you know, the technical difficulty buttons.

Speaker 7 (43:13):
Yes, okay, So yeah, so that's the reason why I
don't like to sort of watch these sort of programs.
But yeah, we started, I said, back in ninety five,
So this was before all these programs came along. And
we would go to our local haunted houses and we're

(43:34):
knock on the door and we'd say, yo, can we
come in and have a look, and they were quite
happy to welcome us in for free because they wanted
to find out what we were finding out, just you know,
just as much as we wanted to. So that was
great in the early days. And then along came Most Haunted,
put it all over the telly, and because they started
throwing money at places to get access, we went back

(43:57):
to some of these places it was oh, well, that'll
be three four hundred pand a night, then please for
the privilege. And that's kind of like, oh, no thanks,
you know, so I kind of blame that for my,
ye know, lack of interest in that side of things
these days, because yeah, there's money involved, and yeah, not

(44:17):
so much really.

Speaker 6 (44:19):
That seems to be what Ghost Adventures has done to
a lot of the locations here in the US, right, yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (44:26):
Mean, and it's yeah, all you're really doing is sitting
around in the dark see if something will happen. And
I'd have to pay for the privilege of doing that,
and no thanks, you know, I've got better things to
spend my money on. But yeah, now, as I said,
all that knowledge experience is what I've put together and
that's now what I share with people that you know,

(44:48):
care to listen.

Speaker 6 (44:49):
Absolutely, So we've we've done Crippard's and Amalies on the
Paranormal Society my team for about five a little more
than that five or six years now. We started in
twenty nineteen as a a professional team, and in all
that time and all the investigations we've gotten called to,
there's been two cases that I would say could possibly
be either demonic or non human spirits. So have you

(45:13):
had any encounters with anything that you would consider actually
a darker entity?

Speaker 7 (45:21):
Once? Maybe? But I just say we now get called
to people's houses quite a lot, and with the mediums
going in with me, usually it's a household that is,
you know, quite scared by something they can't explain. So
we'll go in and the girls will wander around and
make their notes. Nine times out of ten we find

(45:41):
that it's someone related to the people living in that
house now, and when that's told to them, they're a
lot happier to let it continue. You know, initially we're
in there, they want us to ship it on and
get rid of it. But when they realize it's someone
they know, then there are a lot just to let
it run its course. And these things do. Once the

(46:05):
spirit has passed on its message via the mediums, they're happy,
the household calms down a bit and it just sort
of moves on all by itself, so we don't need
to get involved. But there was one case that we
did in Brixham, which is in Torbay, which is one
of the places that I do one of my ghost

(46:25):
walks around, and it was an old dairy and some
members of the group Relibles was their home. They lived
there and they were saying that every morning something it's
like something switches on in the building making a noise.
They can't find what it was, so they had that

(46:45):
sort of waking them up, and then their daughters were
being terrorized by some figure appearing in their rooms, and
obviously we were there, you know, to try and help
them out. And it's one of the few times where
we did have to resort to trying to cleanse the
place and move him on because it turned out that
he was an old farmer. Obviously the old dairy was his,

(47:09):
and there were some old outbuildings still in a courtyard
behind the house where our friends were living, and he
was still lurking around there and he was an abuser
in life, and this is what he was still trying
to do to, you know, our friend's young children. So
he had to go, and it took two visits, and

(47:30):
eventually we managed to get contact with his mother and
she came from spirit and took him away for us.
So yeah, that was one of the few times that
you know, we've had to move it on. But again,
that's not demonic. That's just a spirit that was spiteful
in life and is obviously still like that in death.

(47:52):
So yeah, they have to go. But no, when people
come to me and they said, oh, something's evil, it's
kind of like, well, maybe in your perception, because you
can't understand something that's happening straight away, you're going to
think it's something bad. It's meant to, you know, to

(48:13):
harm you. It's there for you. But if you put
yourself into the mind of the spirit that is no
longer able to communicate, to touch, it can still see,
it's aware of the living, but it can't interact and
just put yourself in that position, how frustrating that must

(48:33):
be when you're desperate to get a message across and
yet you can't. So you're going to start doing what
you can do and that's throw things around, turn lights
on and off, interfere with electoral equipment because you can,
and that's all you can do. So if this suddenly
starts happening in your house, then oh god, it's evil.
It's something out to get me. It's bad. But that's

(48:55):
your interpretation, that's not the intention, because the spirit just
wants communication. And so I believe that poltergeist, you know,
it's still a form of spirit entity, just it's so
frustrated that that's all it can do. It just needs
someone to sort of tune in, communicate with it, find

(49:16):
out what it wants, and then or be well afterwards.
And that's what I believe, you know, as a group,
that's what we now offer. So we're not just there
to investigate. We're there to help and calm situations down.
And it's an educational thing, you know. I know, science
and the church not don't necessarily agree with what we do,

(49:39):
but but we get results. I had an interesting conversation
last year with the priest that one of the churches
that I visit on my walk, and we met him,
we had a chat. Turns out he's an exorcist, So
that sort of got us talking about that, and at

(50:00):
the same time, I had a group of my guests
with me, so I was explaining what we did as
a group, and he laughed and he said, huh, and
that's when I get called in. And I said, actually,
the other way around. You go in and then it
might clear briefly, but it doesn't solve the problem because
you're still left with the spirit entity that wants communication

(50:22):
and that isn't what the church offers. So we then
get called in afterwards, and he didn't like that. I
haven't seen him since, so apologies if I did upset
anybody talking about that sort of thing, that is very well.

Speaker 6 (50:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (50:41):
Interestingly, I tried to bring up the subject of the
Devil's Door with him and his response was there's a
time and a place to talk about that, and this
isn't it. So I've never met him since to talk
about it to find out his take. Another person that
heard my story talk that I gave last year, he

(51:02):
said that he used to be a choir boy in
a church up the road from where I was giving
my talk, and he said, we were allowed to use
the north door because it led you directly into where
the vestry was, and that's where their choir boy investments
were kept, so they would slip in the side door,
get ready, and then take their place in the choir
stalls until they had a new vicar. And the first

(51:26):
thing that he did when he got his hands on
the keys was to order this north door to be
locked up and never to be used again. Now I
didn't explain himself, but that's what happened. And when eventually
he left years later, when they tried to open that door,
it was so rusted up that they couldn't even if

(51:47):
they wanted to. So why was he so adamant that
the north door wasn't to be used and the only
people inconvenience were the choir boys because it meant that
they then had to walk in through the main entrance
to the church and walk up the aisle, and if
they were late, they got spotted. So yeah, so I
don't think that's why the Vicka did it, just to

(52:07):
upset the choir boys. But yeah, that's it's a bit
of a thing, and everybody's got a different sort of
attitude towards it. So that's why I like to discuss it,
particularly with clergymen.

Speaker 6 (52:26):
That's absolutely fascinating. I would like to remind everyone listening
that we are live. So if you are listening to
this conversation right now as we're talking, if you have
any questions for David Phillips, dart Moor over in the UK,
any of the paranormal activity, or any legends or lore
or folklore or anything that you have questions about, throw
them in the comments section and we'll get them here

(52:46):
before we wrap things up today. But I want to
go back to we talked about some paranormal and stuff.
I want to go back to more of the folklore.
We've kind of talked a little bit about the crossroads
and the witches and stuff like. Are crossroads a really
big thing over there still?

Speaker 7 (53:06):
Only if they've got a dead body buried next to it.
There are a couple of those. There's one called Stephen's Grave,
which is higher up on the more, a place called
Peter Tavy. But in that instance it's a crossroads traps.
It's not a road, it's it's in the middle, it's
on the edge of the moor. And he committed suicide
and he was just putting a hole in the ground.

(53:27):
And he's got like a granite pillar, a small pillar,
just to denote he's there with the letter S on it.
So yeah, that that's another oddity. But it's interesting because
studying the idea of suicides, I've now uncovered like a
social history of how they've been treated over the years.

(53:49):
That there's those two that were putting a hole in
the ground. There's another one a place called Prince Town
where Dartmoor Prison is in the graveyard there, there's a
double family plot to the Kistol family, and the husband
died quite young, leaving his wife to bring up five children.

(54:10):
And shortly after he died, she got accused of stealing
a pig from a neighbour's farm, something she vehemently denied,
but she was taken to court for it and just
you know, vilified for something that she said she didn't do.
But anyway, even though she had five children to look after,
she still felt compelled to take her own life. And

(54:31):
in her case, because her father, her husband had actually
bought this double plot, she was allowed to be buried
next to him, no funeral service as such, but just
you know, put in the ground next to him. So
that's a slight change in attitude. Another one I came across,
excuse me, was in Ashburton, another Dartmoor town, and in

(54:58):
an engine shed from the old railway line. There's a
guy who now lives there and he's turned it into
a little sort of coffee shop called Bullivard's, and he
lives in the bedroom above it, and he said he
shares it with this ghost of a guy who hung himself. Now,
he apparently was a town counselor. He was in charge of,

(55:19):
you know, quite a lot of public funds, and unfortunately
for him, he got involved in a bit of a
dodgy transaction and again he was vilified for his involvement
in it, and again he felt his only way out
was to take his own life, so he hung himself
from a rafter in the old engine shed which is
now this guy's bedroom. And in his case, he was

(55:42):
allowed to have a funeral service. All his family and
friends went along to the church, but he was kept
in his coffin on the steps outside, so he couldn't
be part of his own funeral service. When it finished,
they then took him off. Presumably he was buried in
the graveyard somewhere, but he wasn't allowed to be part
of service. And I've just talked about this last week

(56:02):
to somebody and the church that I just mentioned where
we met the father, she actually went to a funeral
service there for a friend of hers. And in the
church all the saints' statues were covered in sheets, as

(56:23):
though they couldn't witness the funeral service of a suicide,
which I thought, in this day and age, that's a
bit a bit weird, but I guess you know, it's
still a thing to this day. There is a stigma
attached to suicide, and yeah, it's interesting the social history

(56:45):
of it over the years that I've uncovered. Another little
line of research that I've got that I share with
whoever wishes to listen.

Speaker 6 (56:56):
Can you go back and you mentioned that they were
buried at the cross Why was the suicide buried at
the crossroads specifically?

Speaker 7 (57:04):
Right? The idea was that the spirit of the suicide
wasn't able to find its way back to haunt the living,
It was to confuse them. Some versions even say there
might have been staked through the heart, which you know,
I'd hate to think that this happened to this poor
young girl, Kitty j but yeah, a bit like a vampire,
you know. The idea is to anchor the person to

(57:27):
the grave, and interestingly, people always ask is Kitty Jay's
grave haunted and apart from the witchcraft thing, and yes,
I think it is. Some members.

Speaker 6 (57:41):
Well.

Speaker 7 (57:42):
At the beginning, a friend of ours was a psychic
artist and she was asked to spend the night in
a cottage up the lane from Kitty Jay's Grave, and
whilst she was there, she drew two pictures. Here we
go again, sorry about this, folks.

Speaker 6 (58:02):
Again, If you guys have any questions, throw them in
the comments section and when he gets back, we'll get
to them. But it looks like mostly just comments and
stuff over there, all right.

Speaker 7 (58:13):
So yeah, So they were in this cottage overnight and
she drew two pictures. One was an old woman and
one was an old fashioned priest with a dog collar.
And she said, one day I'll bring these pictures to
one of your meetings and show everybody. So we didn't
know when it could have been any time anyway, two
other friends from the group they visited han tour and

(58:36):
that was their special spiritual spot to go and energize,
and one of them said to the other, I've never
been to Jay's grave. So they said, let's put that right.
Let's go there now. So they visited, and whilst they
were there, they both had this blinding vision of an
old woman holding on to the wrist of a young girl,
and they took that as being Kitty J being anchored

(58:58):
to her grave site being allowed to leave for whatever reason.
So they did a little cleansing ritual and they thought
that they'd achieved the goal of sending her on, but
when they were driving home again, they had this blinding
vision of this girl still being held at the spot,
so it didn't work anyway. They came to our meeting

(59:19):
the next week quite excited to share their little adventure,
and it was the same day that Mary decided to
bring her drawings with her, and both women freaked out
because the old woman that Mary had drawn was the
same old woman that they'd both seen holding on to
Kitty J at the grave site. So yeah, definitely think
there's something about that, and it is just a way

(59:41):
to anchor the spirit at the gravesite, to stop it
going off and haunting the living. So very sad, but
it was a thing back in the day. You said
you had to messages for.

Speaker 6 (59:56):
Us interesting your friends, as spirits of place are always
harder to deal with than the spirits of friends and family,
meaning like tied to a specific location, the spirit.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Of a place.

Speaker 7 (01:00:08):
Yes, so again, this this guy that I talked about
in Brixham, that was his home, that was his patch.
So yeah, he is the spirit of the place. So
he's not been brought in in visitation from anybody that's present.
And that's why, like Maya says, the friends and family

(01:00:29):
are you know, easier to communicate with and and to
pass our messages from than someone that's adamant. You know,
I was a bugger in real life and I'm still
a bugger in spirit now, so deal with me. And
so yeah, that's that's what you have to do sometimes absolutely, Yeah,
but it's still not a demon. It's still not the devil.

Speaker 6 (01:00:54):
And that's that's what I was saying, Like I one
percent agree with you. You put that very well and
explained it as well. That you know, like you know,
people that are buggers in life are tend to be
what people take as demons. Now, they're just a crotch
of the old person that you know is causing trouble
or having a problem. And yeah, I guess very very

(01:01:15):
few things are actually demonic or other Yeah, humans.

Speaker 7 (01:01:20):
I think so I mean, because you know, let's face it,
the devil, you know, was a Christian invention. Whether that
makes him real or not, I don't know. But it's
the idea that that people are bad and evil, and
it's if you can just accept that as a concept
without having to give it an image, then that's what

(01:01:40):
people are. They're either you know, intentionally good or they're
intentionally bad. There's no idea that they're you know, an
offshoot of the devil or anything like that. It's just
just human nature. And as I said, a lot of
the time, it's not it's not deliberate in spirit. It's

(01:02:00):
just frustration that kicks in because they're no longer able
to communicate as they were when they're alive. And again,
this doesn't make them bad. It's just frustration and the
wish to recommunicate or reconnect with their family from the
other side. So yeah, I do believe that that's definitely

(01:02:22):
a thing, and that's what you know, most people are
intending to do. Just let me put another thing. When
we do our investigations, I said, we don't use gadgets
or tools. Sometimes you know, people might use a pendulum
or whatever just to assist their gift, but we don't
do seances and weija boards. My belief is that, yes,

(01:02:47):
some people think that there's something bad about them, but
I think it's just the way that they're used. When
you do a group exercise like a seance or a
weedia board, you're linking hands, you're joining energy, and we all,
I believe, have got our own spirit guide. We've all
got relatives in spirit, and when given the chance and

(01:03:08):
when the energy is built up with that group session,
then these spirits can come through. So in my mind,
this isn't for the investigation room, because you're there to
look for the spirit of the place, whatever is haunting
that site. You're not there to talk to your relatives
just because you can. So that's why I don't involve

(01:03:31):
that sort of thing in what we do. We're just
there to look for whatever is upsetting the owners of
the property now or what might have been there in
the past. If we're there in an older building, obviously
the time and the place for these sort of things
to happen. And I know when people do these sort
of paranormal events where they invite people to come along

(01:03:51):
and take part in the investigation, you've got to give
them something. Not everybody is as switched on or we've
all got the gift. I believe we're all born with it.
It's just how you're brought up and how you use it,
and you're encouraged to use it. But when you go
along to one of these paid events as a transaction
has to take place, you know, people have paid their money.

(01:04:13):
They need something to show for it. So if sitting
them down and doing a seance or whatever is what
you feel is worthy of their payment, then then so
be it. But at the end of the day, we're
just there to look for what's in the place, and that,
as I said, that's what we try and do. We
bring people along to a property, we try and get
them to tune into their you know, their own latent

(01:04:34):
psychic ability, and then let them loose and just see
what they can come up with. And if they agree
with some of the other people that I've worked with
or when we've been there before, then that's when you
know you're onto something. Is that there's a repetition of
an experience. So that's what we're about. I mean, I'm

(01:04:54):
not dissing people that do like to use the scientific equipment.
That's that's all good. But this is how we work,
and I know the results that we get are you
know worth looking at? Shall we say?

Speaker 6 (01:05:08):
Absolutely? Lee does have a question here. She says, what
is the oldest spirit that you have come across? Oh?

Speaker 7 (01:05:19):
Got me thinking, now, well, as this this dog has
I said, that was only dead for ten days? The
spirits that again all roatally back to Barry Pomroy, some
of the oldest spirits would be there. I'm trying to
think what else we've come across. Uh, And again, as

(01:05:42):
I said, a lot of it is in people's houses.
So it is, you know, spirits of the recently departed.
And as I say, I'm not myself a medium. I
just sort of mix with mediums, and you know, doing
that it rubs off on me. So I'm more intwove.
So when people come to me with their problem, I

(01:06:02):
can relate back to, you know, experiences I've been told
and see if we can sort of make it fit
that way. So I guess the the guy at the
old dairy, he would have been quite old. The Black
House is an interesting story that's just up the road
from there. There's a ghost there that dates back quite

(01:06:25):
a way, and there was a woman called Miss Joyce
who owned the property joined the war, and she everything
that went wrong in the house, like lights would have
switched on, doors were locked. She was once locked out
of her own home by her spirit. Should blame it

(01:06:46):
on this, this ghost. And I've fortunately joined the war.
Over here. Oh, I've just seen what may have said
yar coffin house the Obviously, during the war there was
a blackout, so all lights had to be switched off,

(01:07:06):
curtains drawn across it. But the Air Aid wardens were
often knocking on Miss Joyce's door to tell her to
turn the light off, and she said, sorry, it's my ghost.
It's not me. And I'd like to take this opportunity
to publicly apologize to Miss Joyce. She's no longer with us,
but unfortunately joined the war because of this anomaly that

(01:07:28):
always used to happen in her house. She was wrongly
accused of being related to William Joyce, who was Lord Harhare,
the propagandist for the Germans during the Second World War.
And I think locals must have thought that by leaving
her light on in a house, she was doing her
thing to help the German war effort. And I mistakenly

(01:07:53):
went along with that idea, but I was recently told
she wasn't related to Lord Hawhor and it bugged her
for all a life to think that these people were
accusing her of being so and maybe have had her
own allegiance to the Germans. But that wasn't the case.
So I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize. New
information has come my way, and I don't wish to

(01:08:16):
dispirch her name any further. That's not to say that
she didn't live in a very haunted house. We were
actually contacted by her dentist no less. He came to
one of our meetings to tell us his experience of
visiting Miss Joyce at home when she once broke her
dentures and he was sitting in a kitchen making measurements

(01:08:41):
and stuff to help her out, and all of a
sudden there was a mighty crash from the floor above
and the sound of something heavy being dragged across the
floor on chains, and he couldn't get out of there
quick enough, and he found a note at home the
next day, handwritten note by Miss Joyce said that you know,
sorry for last night, that was my ghost playing up.

(01:09:03):
So he went back to fit the dentures, but he
refused to go in. He did it on a doorstep,
and fortunately he got it right first time, so he
didn't need to set foot in the house again. I
told this story on one of my walks earlier in
the year and this woman piped up and said, I
heard those chains when I was thirteen. She said her

(01:09:27):
and a friend were at school. They were doing a project,
presumably it was on the local ghost stories, and they
wanted to interview Miss Joyce and she invited them to
her home and she said, I'm not going to talk
about my ghost, but I will tell you other things.
So girls were a little disappointed. But as they sat there,
all of a sudden there was this crash from the
floor above and the sound of something being traded across

(01:09:50):
the floor on chains. So the girls were quite excited
then because they'd experienced the ghost firsthand, so they were
able to write it up for their project a lot
better than just asking Miss Joyce to tell them about it.
And then another story that I got recently. I think
this is one of the most haunted houses in Brixham,

(01:10:12):
this black house. A friend of mine came on my
walk and brought her sister along, and they both remembered
being invited into Miss Joyce's house because she was a
member of the same church as them, and they went
to several dinner parties afternoon teas with Miss Joyce. And
the sister said, well, I've got a better story than that,

(01:10:34):
because nothing happened during those afternoon teas. But this was
Christmas time and all the young children from the congregation
were invited to go and visit all the elderly members
in their homes. Those are ones that were housebound and
not able to come to the services. And they turned
up at Black house. She said, it was this beautiful

(01:10:55):
hallway with a beautiful sort of staircase, go like gone
with the wind, that sort of staircase, And the children
stood in the hallway to sing their carols, and the
sister and her friend they sneaked up the stairs to
stand on the balcony to join in with the singing
from on high. And they said when they went they

(01:11:19):
went to sing while shepherd watched their flocks by night,
and they thought would be a bit of a giggle
if they changed it to the all time favorite while
shepherd washed their socks by night, So they joined in
using those words, and as soon as they uttered them
behind them there was this row of old dining chairs

(01:11:39):
on the balcony and they started to move, and then
one by one they all fell over, and the girls
couldn't get down on the stairs quick enough and they
phaved themselves to the rest of the night, singing the
proper songs, whilst miss Joyce's ghost did its sing on
the balcony above. So, yeah, never been in myself, but

(01:12:01):
collected all those stories.

Speaker 6 (01:12:05):
We Joyce.

Speaker 7 (01:12:09):
Yeah, maybe again, she's not the ghost, you know, she
just lived in the house.

Speaker 6 (01:12:18):
She passed. Now she has now, yes, then she could
be a ghost.

Speaker 7 (01:12:22):
Now well she could be. Yeah, but you know, hopefully
she's got better things to do than to hang around
her road home.

Speaker 6 (01:12:29):
She's just hanging out with the ghost of her house.

Speaker 7 (01:12:31):
Yeah. Hopefully one day, hopefully I'll get a chance to
go in and visit and we'll find out. But at
the moment it's all been converted into flats, so I
don't know anybody who lives there, But come and find me,
let me know, and I'm happy to come in and
have a look.

Speaker 6 (01:12:51):
Very cool man, Well we are, we are past the
top of the r here. I don't want to keep
you too much, but it amazing chatting with you at
all your stories and stuff. Much pleasure you have the
ghost tours? Do you run them year round? Where can
people find information on them? How can I?

Speaker 7 (01:13:06):
Okay, Well, I've got a website more and more tours.
I've got a Facebook page, tip files and tip x
files and Dartmore walks with the Storyteller another Facebook page.
But usually I have sort of set times of the
year when I do the walks, but I'm I can

(01:13:27):
do the bespoke, so if people come to me, either individually,
with family or friends, then I'm happy to put something
together on a mutually convenient time. I've got a few
things already booked in for Christmas and New Year, so
I'm happy to do it whenever. I've got a couple
of things lined up for BRICKXAM for November and December

(01:13:48):
when the Christmas lights are on, so that'll look quite
pretty as well as spooky, and then more to come
next year. So yeah, if people are in the area
or want to come and visit dart More, then yeah,
look me up and I'm happy to do business.

Speaker 6 (01:14:07):
Do you do public investigations? As well, or just like
the history walking tours and stuff, we.

Speaker 7 (01:14:13):
Do investigations when when we get the opportunity. A friend
of mine used to be the babysitter for investigations they
do at Topnest Museum in That's quite a spooky place.
We've done that a few times. And also last week
I did a place called the Valiant Soldier as a
special Halloween walk and then we had a look around

(01:14:35):
the haunted property. So I can combine walks with investigations.
It's just a case of fitting it all in. And
I'm getting on now. I'm sixty two, So the idea
of although I'm a nightbird, I like sitting up at night,
but just concentrating on a TV screen doing investigations it

(01:14:57):
does tire you out, and many a time I've been
found sleeping on the job. Some of my colleagues that, hey, yeah,
give me a property, give me people to come and
join me, then yeah, I'm happy to go wherever.

Speaker 6 (01:15:11):
Very cool man. Both of those links are in the
show notes, the Moors tour and the Facebook group. You
can check them out there in the show notes. For
anybody that's interested, go ahead and click that on your
chosen platform. Wherever you're watching or listening to us. Good
Thank you, You're very welcome man. That is there anything else,

(01:15:32):
any final thoughts that you'd like to leave everybody with.

Speaker 7 (01:15:37):
Just keep an open mind, is all I'd say. I
know how I do things. I know it doesn't sit
well with other people, but we all have to find
our own path with this. There's no right or wrong
way of doing it. Obviously, to try and prove anything
to science, you need to keep it scientific, so gadget

(01:16:00):
documenting everything you find. That's the way to go. But
it does annoy this the BBC. Right, there's a guy
called Danny Robbins who's got a show called Uncanny, does
a podcast and they've done it on TV and on stage,
but they don't have any truck with mediums and I
think the BBC have got a thing about this. We

(01:16:23):
were once invited to investigate, well not investigate, but to
meet a local celebrity, well a celebrity called Sue Perkins.
There was a program called Country File which goes out
on a weekly basis. She was one of the presenters
back in the day, and they thought it'd be a
good giggle if they got the local ghostbusters to come
and join her when she was spending the night in

(01:16:43):
the castle and tell her all the spooky stories. And
while we were there, Mayo was with me and she
was helping Sue to try and pick up the spirit
of the place and she was tuning in and she
was just getting it. And the director marched up to
them and said, sorry, we don't want that in the program,
and Sue was dragged away and it didn't happen. So

(01:17:03):
I think there's a yeah, there's definitely a thing that
you know that mainstream TV don't want to feature mediumship,
and like we were saying, Derek Korra didn't help that.
You know, the idea that's just an entertainment has sort
of blighted the whole industry really, but it's there. It's
a thing people do pick up on spirit, whether you

(01:17:26):
like it or not, and it is something that does
need to be addressed and acknowledged because it's how how
otherwise how we're going to sort of learn what comes next,
and that that's kind of why I do this, is
the need to know what comes next when we die

(01:17:46):
and to have somebody that can communicate with spirit. That's
that's only a positive thing in my book, and it's
something that should be encouraged more and not just sort
of brushed under the carpet. You know, back in the day,
mediums were like putting asylums. You know, it wasn't understood
anybody that started seeing things or talking nonsense, as it

(01:18:09):
was attributed to, we're just putting an asylum. Yeah, they
were probably mediums that were in tune. And this is
back in the day, Victorian times when they were full
on with you know, seances and stuff that was a
big thing. But anybody that didn't sort of fit would
have was brushed away. And that's how you know, Charlatan's

(01:18:34):
were encouraged because people would pay them money just to
hear what they had to say. So again, yes there's
a fine line. You do have to be careful, but
when someone has the gift, it's to be encouraged. And
we've had several young children in our group rather their
parents were in the group. They would tell us the

(01:18:56):
things they got up to, and one girl was particularly
switched on, you know, she was telling people things that
she shouldn't have known about. And one young lad he
had this imaginary friend called Elfie, and one day he
was taken to a church in the East end of London,
where he'd never been before. They were driving through the

(01:19:17):
area and he said to his grandfather, oh, that's where
Alfie lives, and Tony his grandfather said, well, we'll humor you.
We'll let you take you into the church and see
what you can find. And sure enough they found the
grave of a young boy called Alfie, wearing a football
strip that was said to be his favorite team. So
this was, you know, a young lad, you know, who

(01:19:39):
didn't know any different. You know, he hadn't been taught this.
He just knew where his friend Alfie was to be buried.
And I think, as I said, we've all got this,
this ability, and it's something to be nurtured and hopefully
more of it to come. Thank you very much.

Speaker 6 (01:20:00):
And follow up on there. You you kind of alluded
to something that I'd like to go back to here.
Do you think that you talked about like actual mediums
were ridiculed and stuff and put into asylums and that, yeah,
and how it's possible like the TV is downplaying all that.
Do you think that some of the mediums or the

(01:20:22):
people that are portrayed as that are purposely hoaxful to
make a mockery of it too, like to to kind
of pretend that mediums aren't real. Does that makes sense?

Speaker 7 (01:20:36):
I mean yes, so it's it's sort of you know,
a ruse and settlings haha, I'm not real.

Speaker 6 (01:20:42):
Yeah, like they don't exist.

Speaker 7 (01:20:44):
Yeah, well there's someone I could mention that, Darren Brown
for instance. He he's got a gift, but he chooses
to use it to downgrade Mediumship, you know, he said,
all mind tricks and stuff. So yeah, I've not got

(01:21:04):
much time for him unfortunately, because he is doing just that.
He has gone out of his way to try and
you know, undermine Mediumship. And as I said, it's everybody
has to make up their own mind about it. Yeah.
With Derek Kcorra, I said, yeah, he was used to,
you know, make the show more interesting for the makers

(01:21:27):
of Most Haunted. But this is awful, right. We saw
them live on stage last year. It was just the
greatest hits tour of Most Haunted. Video clips didn't really
have much truck with it, nothing featured Derek, yet he
was the one that made their name. Okay. At the
end they did a Q and A session and Carl Beatty,

(01:21:49):
the producer was asked about Derek, and he stood on
that stage and he said three things I'll tell you
about Derek Kcorra. He was a fake, he died, he
was a he got fired, he died, and that's how
he summed up the guy that helped make his name.
And I just think that's disrespectful to say the least.

(01:22:11):
So yeah, so those people that try and pooh poo
it and he was caught out. I don't even know
the story, but they set him up by feeding him
a name that was an anagram of Derek Faker, and
when he used it in the program, they outed him
and that was when he got fired. So again, he
was being manipulated all the way through it. So yeah,

(01:22:36):
I don't have much truck with people that do that,
but yet keep an open mind and just go with it.
As I said, we were once hoaxed on one of
our first investigations, but that wasn't through anything spiteful. That
was just somebody who'd lost a loved one and they
felt that if we could bring some truth to her

(01:22:59):
about you know, ghosts and spirit she might feel a
stronger connection with her loved one. And by keeping us
interested by making these hoped noises, what have you. It
did keep our interest and that was the hope that
we would then make some sort of contact, maybe with
their loved one. So yes, some sort of hoaxing is

(01:23:22):
malicious and some is done with the best of intentions.
But for us, it was like a you know, a
bit of a learning curve and we never left our
equipment and attended after that. But but yeah, as I said,
I'm very you know, I'm not a mede and myself
I fully respect you know, people that do it, and

(01:23:43):
the people that I work with, they respect me, and
they wouldn't dream of make, you know, doing research into
the places where I take them. I always tell them
last minute and they assure me they know nothing about
where they're going. And I don't let them go around
as a group, go around individually so they don't contaminate
each other's thoughts, and they make notes and then they

(01:24:06):
refer to those notes when they do the debrief. So
I know that, you know, we're as genuine as we
can be, but it's it's down to each person's individual,
you know, viewpoint on this. But you know, I know
where I stand and happy to talk about it and
to help people understand it as well, and with with Maya.

(01:24:31):
You know, that's what we've done. Over the years. We've
helped some of the girls in the group to develop
and they've now gone off and they do lots of
investigations using this ability that they they've honed, and I'd
like to think that, you know, I've helped in my
my sports small way to set them on this this path.

Speaker 6 (01:24:50):
Absolutely. We we have some amazing mediums on my team
as well, and they are legit and they've same as
as you said. We tell them, you know, we're going
to the city. That's all they know. And then the
day of you get an address, you show up and
go through and one of the investigators will go with
the medium, like you said, keep them separate, and then
at the end we kind of debrief and then figure

(01:25:11):
out what we're going to do. So and they've come
up with some amazing things that there's no way they
should know and it all fits and we go yeah, right, well, yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:25:20):
We okay. We had a doozy. We did Ashburton last Halloween.
I did one of my walks there for the first
time and we were then invited to investigate the Old
Extra in which is one of the oldest pubs in
the world, and some friends of mine were mediums. They

(01:25:43):
arrived on the evening to join in, but they hadn't
been in the pub for very long, and they said,
we've actually got a spirit that's trying to draw us away,
that wants to take us on a walk. So they
disappeared for a little while they walked around the town.
The spirit identified himself as a lied and he said
that he was a taxman for the church back in

(01:26:06):
the days when the church would produce their own ale.
He would go around collecting the money from the people
that had been delivered to around the town. And he
took them on his route. He identified for them a
tannery in an old, ruined building, and as soon as
he said that, they smelt the smell of a tannery.
But what was really intriguing about this one. He took

(01:26:27):
them to a house, a pacific house, and he told
them that he'd inadvertently killed a young boy on the
doorstep of this house, and apparently he had a withered arm,
and all the local kids used to take the mickey
out of him, and this one day he'd had enough
and he just struck out with his good arm and

(01:26:49):
the boy went fall into the floor and banged his head,
and realizing that he'd probably done this little lad an injury,
he ran off just as the owner of the house
came out and trying to help the little boy, but
sadly he died. And so our friends picked up this
story from Elijah, brought it back to our debrief in

(01:27:11):
the pub, and when they started to describe where they'd been,
there was a woman there who was the pr for
the pub. She'd set up the whole event, and when
they described this house, she said, that's my house. You
were standing outside my house and we had no idea
where this woman lived. And she said, over the years

(01:27:34):
I've lived there, their children are come running up the
road from school on the bis whatever. They'd take a
tumble on my doorstep and I would come out and
help them up, just as this woman did when this
little lad died. And she said, after she was told
this story, it was almost like Elijah was making a
confession to our guys. And she said, that tarmac in

(01:27:58):
front of our house start to crack and crumble, revealing
the slab that may have been there back in the
day when an Elijah was around, and that just happened then,
you know, with combining with Elijah's little confession, and so
then it had to be re tarmacked. So yeah, that's
one of the little walks that I do around Ashburton.

(01:28:21):
But again they didn't make that up. They had no
idea where she lived. But a lot of the facts
that they came up with through this guy in spirit
fits and has some connection. So yeah, one hundred, you know,
medium chip all the way with me.

Speaker 6 (01:28:38):
Oh yeah, very cool. I want to address this. Do
you see Darren Brown's TV show in the US, And
I gotta admit, you know, like I don't have much
time for a lot of the television shows and stuff,
so I have no idea what that is. There's like
two paranormal cryptid shows that I watch and that because

(01:29:01):
there are.

Speaker 7 (01:29:02):
He's more of a mentalist, very clever, but as soon
as you start turning on people just to score points,
then no, sor, I don't have any truck with that
sort of attitude to people. And yeah, he's got the gift,
you know. Yeah, he tries to play it down as
though it's something you can explain, but you can't. And

(01:29:24):
so it's almost like, you know, he's afraid of being
bullied or ridiculed, you know, if he admitted that he
had the gift, so instead he toes the line and
goes out of his way to ridicule other mediums or
people with the gifts. So yeah, we don't go there.

Speaker 6 (01:29:43):
All right, man, it's been awesome talking to you. I
have one last question here on here for you, and
then we'll wrap things up. Flat Rockland would like to
know any thoughts on Patrick Jackson's work regarding ghosts as
a UAP phenomenon.

Speaker 7 (01:29:57):
I'm sorry that name doesn't mean anything to me.

Speaker 6 (01:30:04):
What what are your thoughts on ghosts as a UAP
phenomenon UAP but unidentified a phenomenon basic term of UFO.

Speaker 7 (01:30:18):
Okay, but I my yeah, I've got a specific view
on UFOs. I believe these are craft from our future.
I back in the day when when UFOs were a

(01:30:39):
big thing, you had abductions, all that sort of thing.
A lot of the people that came back having had
an abduction experience, they always came back with a story
from the craft or whoever was on board it that
we need to look after the planet yep. And I thought, well,
why would someone from another planet an alien whatever. Why

(01:31:01):
would they give a monkeys about what we're doing to
our own planet unless they're from our future, and so
they're coming back to try and warn people to look
after the planet. So that's my taker on UFOs ghosts.
I wouldn't have said there's anything spooky about a flying

(01:31:23):
saucer myself, but that is their intention. I believe they
are there to give us this message protect the planet.
Interesting UFO story then couple, but I go with this
one again. Bob pom Or was involved. We were spending
the night standing on the lawn in front, hoping the

(01:31:44):
White Lady or whoever would come out and surprise us.
But I was looking in the other direction. We often
did a bit of SkyWatch while we were there, and
as I looked up into the night sky, it split
open and through it I could see daylight, and then
all these little white objects started to sort of fly

(01:32:05):
out of it, almost like a mothership was unloading satellites
or whatever. And then it just zipped up again and
all was dark, very brief. The spirit. I don't think
anybody else saw it, but I did see that. So
talk about yeah, the puppet master, you know, someone above
pulling strings and you know, revealing things. Yeah, that was

(01:32:27):
a very weird phenomenon.

Speaker 6 (01:32:29):
Do you think it was when you say daylight? Do
you think it was light like a door open and
light came out, or did you see like blue sky
at night?

Speaker 7 (01:32:37):
It was blue sky. Yeah, it was bright daylight through
the night sky. So what the hell that was? I
don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:32:48):
I've heard a couple of stories like that. That's why
I was wondering, because I've I've heard a Linda Godfrey
who was an author here from Wisconsin, and she wrote
about like the Beast of Bray Road, the dog Man
entities and stuff. But she had a story in one
of her books about a family or whatever a witness
that looked up at the sky and saw the turrets
of a castle with flags in like a bubble or

(01:33:12):
an opening like that. And then I've heard other stories
of nighttime driving and then seeing daylight of a daytime
sky and everything. So veryeah, that's cool.

Speaker 7 (01:33:23):
Yeah, it's we could talk all night.

Speaker 6 (01:33:29):
I appreciate your time. We've we've gone here so I
I love it. Man, Thank you so much for sharing
your time with us tonight, and definitely love to have
you back again and talk.

Speaker 7 (01:33:41):
Do you want to know the UFO story before I
go absolutely, well, we're on it. Okay, this was something
that we saw weirdly. This was on the way to
meet the people behind the investigation we were doing, the
one that got hoaxed. So it's almost like paranormal stuff
happens to you when you least expect it, when you're

(01:34:04):
focused on something else and all of a sudden it
blindsides you because it's not what you're expecting. But this
was driving along a country lane and all of a
sudden we saw this little almost like a balloon. It
came floating out of the trees over the road in
front of us, and as it turned, it was like

(01:34:24):
hockey puck shape, so it's like flat but balloon shaped
on one side. And it went over the road and
we saw it going into the field, and we stopped
the car to go and have a look, and we
saw all these birds fly up in this field, so
we thought, well, this obviously landed, so let's go and
check it out. So we drove up the lane a

(01:34:45):
little bit further, turned left the first opportunity, drove down
this lane and we came to what we found out
was an abbatoir and we parked up next to that,
and opposite the abbattar was this entrance to the.

Speaker 6 (01:34:58):
Field and the gate was is that for people that
aren't in the uk abatat?

Speaker 7 (01:35:03):
Is it where you kill animals? Okay, yeah, that's it, yes, yeah,
thank you. So fortunately none of that was going on
at the time. But anyway, so we went through this gate.
There was a little ankle high electric fence, so we

(01:35:24):
stepped over that and started looking around the field, but
we couldn't find anything. But we'd all seen this shape
go the road and obviously landed in the field. And
then time was getting on with it. We'd better get
to our appointment. We're going to be late otherwise, so
step back over the fence just crossing the road, and
this silver Mercedes came speeding down the lane towards us

(01:35:46):
and without stopping, turned through that gate entrance and then
just went careering off down the field. In the car
was a man and a woman dressed in suits, dressed
like moldering scully. So they must have been watching us
to know that that gate was open for them just
to you know, spin right through it. But yeah, that

(01:36:09):
was very weird. No idea what it was, but obviously.
I think they were off the after it as well
and trying to retrieve it. Been back to that field
several times since, but nothing else. But yeah, if we've
been any slower then they would have hit us. So yeah,
a bit of a dodgy UFO experience there.

Speaker 6 (01:36:32):
I wonder we've heard all the stories of like kettle
mutilations and abductions and stuff. I wonder if that was
like a pickup stop or you know.

Speaker 7 (01:36:40):
Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know where the
hell they were going, but it was it was, you know,
a merce these you don't take that off roading. So yeah,
very bizarre, very busy, interesting.

Speaker 6 (01:36:58):
And on that wonderful note. Yeah, that's a cool story man.
I appreciate it all right. So for anybody listening, remind
him again your websites and Facebook.

Speaker 7 (01:37:08):
Yep, more and moretores, dark More and the Facebook is
tip and tip files and tip x files uh, and
then the dart More uh, dark More walks with the storyteller.
So much stuff, but like you said, it's on your
your page there so they can look it up. More

(01:37:30):
and Mortars and you you'll find.

Speaker 6 (01:37:31):
Me awesome man. Well, thank you so much for being here,
David Pleasure.

Speaker 7 (01:37:40):
I'm notorious for going over time as well, so yeah,
in mind.

Speaker 6 (01:37:47):
Man, you take care of a wonderful night.

Speaker 7 (01:37:49):
Thank you very much and you bye bye.

Speaker 6 (01:37:51):
Now, all right, guys, that is our show for this week.
Thank you all for tuning in, and make sure you're
head on over and check out Moors and More. That's
m R and m O R E for those you
know interested. It is in the show notes for anybody
that's interested in clicking on that as well, and the
Facebook link is there for you to check out and

(01:38:13):
make sure while you're online go on over and check
out all things Untold Radio Network. You can get shirts
of the Paranormal Spectrum and Monsters on the Edge both
my shows on the Untold Radio Networks shops, so you
can grab those while you're there and like, subscribe and
share all things here on the Untold Radio Network and
my group Cryptids Anomalies and the Paranormal Society Until next time, guys,

(01:38:35):
Remember we're all part of the Paranormal Spectrum. Take care,
be well then I'll see you next week.

Speaker 8 (01:38:43):
You seem to know Seth there, let's call it King
and tell me please, that's all that thing streets on
pages in the.

Speaker 5 (01:39:03):
Home a herd Chine, I'm bringing from the rich. Come
a heard ricane if you can. And tad Ham a
hurricane always some troblem. Bid me just coming a heard Katy,
I'm time a cana

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