Talking Weird #169 The Siege of Ape Canyon with Eli Watson

Eli Watson is a filmmaker, podcaster, and storyteller from Temecula, California, whose work explores the edges of folklore, mystery, and belief. A director, editor, and producer, Eli is best known for his series Bigfoot: The Road to Discovery, a multi-part exploration of the cultural and personal significance of Sasquatch, blending investigative filmmaking with a cinematic eye.

After earning his B.A. in Screenwriting from California State University, Long Beach, Eli became an integral part of Small Town Monsters, where since 2021 he has produced a wide slate of documentaries ranging from UFO encounters to Sasquatch legends. His credits with STM include projects such as On the Trail of Bigfoot: Land of the Missing and On the Trail of UFOs: Night Visitors, where his skills as both a storyteller and craftsman have helped shape the look and feel of the films.

Beyond film, Eli is the co-creator and host of Cryptid Campfire, a long-running podcast that has reached thousands of listeners with conversations on folklore, cryptids, and the unexplained. His work consistently bridges entertainment and research, offering audiences both gripping stories and a sincere curiosity about the unknown.

Eli returns to Talking Weird to chat about his brand new documentary: THE SIEGE OF APE CANYON.

This fantastic film examines one of the central narratives of Bigfoot lore: the tale of a group of Sasquatches attacking a mining camp on the side of Mount St. Helens. It follows the incredible research of Marc Myrsell, the investigator who rediscovered the site of the miner's cabin, almost 100 years after the legendary attack.

THE SIEGE OF APE CANYON is now streaming on Apple TV, Google Play & Youtube, here:
Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/the-siege-of-ape-canyon/umc.cmc.6aqwqnatsouoygxybdst6z508
Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/movies/details?id=ZQynvU5WLw0.P
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YPAWtkYDdU

This is an amazing episode that you do not want to miss!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The paranormal UFOs, monsters, Mysteries that you're listening to Talking
Weird and Now from a Kevin deep in the northwards
your host, Doctor Dean Bertram.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to Talking Weird or my fellow widows and weird as.
I'm your host, Dean Bertram, and I'm delighted that you're
joining me for the next hour or so to night.
Maybe you're listening in or watching live when we go
at Thursday nine pm Central US time, or perhaps you're
watching the show where it's archived on YouTube and Facebook
and x after that time. I perhaps you're listening to

(01:01):
us on one of the many audio podcast platforms where
the show drops the following Friday, ie tomorrow from where
I'm sitting now. Maybe it's morning where you are, maybe
it's evening, lunchtime, whatever time you're watching, listening wherever in
the world you are. Thank you for being here with me.
I really appreciate it. I won't chat too much tonight
except to say that the north Woods is wonderfully mysterious

(01:23):
at this time of the year. I got to go
outside of last night and see some of the northern lights,
which was amazing, and hear all kinds of weird, creepy
things in the woods that surround my property at the
same time, so it's fitting perhaps this time of the
year to talk about what we're going to talk about tonight,
one of the original and perhaps most frightening Bigfoot stories.

(01:45):
We'll be looking at that in a little bit, we'll
be looking and talking about the film, and we really
have this current, I suppose, revisitation of it thanks to
tonight's guest. He's a filmmaker, podcaster, and storyteller from Temucula, California,
which I probably mispronounced. His work explores the edges of folklore, mystery,
and belief. He is best known for his series Bigfoot

(02:06):
The Road to Discovery, a multi part exploration of the
cultural and personal significance of Sasquatch. After earning his BA
in Screenwriting from California State University, Long Beach, he became
an integrat. He became an integral part of Small Town Monsters,
where he has produced a wide slate of documentaries ranging
from UFO Encounters to Sasquatch Legends. Beyond film, he is

(02:27):
the co creator and host of Cryptid Campfire, a long
running podcast that has reached thousands of listeners with conversations
on folklore, cryptids, and the unexplained. Tonight, as I mentioned,
he'll be talking about his brand new documentary from Small
Town Monsters, The Siege of a Canyon, which is absolutely fantastic.
So I am delighted to welcome back to Talking Weird

(02:48):
Eli Watson.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Hello, greetings man.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I'm so appreciative of you you joining me, particularly it's
just after your new film dropped. It was like yesterday
or the day before became a v I think.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
The day before he are.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Times.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, it's good to be back, man, good to be here.
I think this was my third time on your show.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's your third time. You know, it's two years to
the week since we had you one and I didn't
plan that any realized.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, wow, it's crazy stuff. Now I have the trailer.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't know if you'd like to play the trailer
up front because they've got so much I want to
talk to you about the movie, but maybe we could
set the tone for the audience out there to encourage
them to go watch this incredible film and to give
them a taste of it before we spend an hour
chatting about it.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Let's do it. Yeah, awesome. The eight Kenyan story is
really one of the classics of Bigfoot. This isn't just
a Bigfoot story, This is the Bigfoot story.

Speaker 5 (03:40):
What happened is that there was this core group headed
by this guy Marie and Smith, his son Leroy Perry Smith,
his son in law Fred Beck, a family friend named
John Peterson, August Johansson, and another friend, Mac Rhodes. They
established a claim for a gold mine in nineteen twenty two.

(04:03):
It's called the Vendor White Mine. Working up there year round,
it's not impossible, but you're not going to get anything done.
Let's build a cabin. It was ten by twenty build
this cabin strictly by hand, maybe with block and tackle.
It was a formidable cabin.

Speaker 6 (04:26):
We got towards evening. When they went to bed at
the cabin that night, ufter it got.

Speaker 5 (04:32):
Dark, there's this large impact on the cabin. They all
walk out through the hole and they can see six
or seven in the moonlight, six or seven of these
large creatures dancing around the cabin, and all hell breaks loose.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
The creatures are throwing rocks, they're climbing on top of
the roof. They're trying to get in. They're trying to
dig underneath the cabin. They're beating at the door, that.

Speaker 6 (04:54):
One of the creatures reached through the chinking and grabbed
the axe and was pulling it out in the morning
when it got light and had stopped and the side
and that that's it.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
We're out of here.

Speaker 5 (05:08):
There's large rocks scattered everywhere. There's footprints at large Humani
floodprints thirteen fourteen fifteen inches long everywhere.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
I think the imagery is what draws people to the story.
There is no evidence of it, really, it was just
a story.

Speaker 5 (05:26):
Did this actually happen? Were these guys real? What if
there's some sort of evidence left behind out of the
cabin or the mine.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
It's so great. I loved it so much.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I told you briefly before we went in life how
much I enjoyed it. And we're going to be talking
about the actual film itself, I think, at some length tonight.
But maybe Kenyan has been one of my favorite Bigfoot
stories for a long time. I grew up in the
seventies and into the eighties when you would see it
mentioned in so many big documentaries, But it's something that's
not talked about quite as much today. Within the Sasquatch

(06:06):
community or just in general Bigfoot law. Maybe tell me
what drew you to this story and how you first
became aware of it and what made you want to
go and make this incredible movie about it.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
Oh gosh, that's a long story. Well, first off, thank
you for the compliments. This movie is definitely what I
consider the pinnacle of Like, if I had to say
if my small town Monster's career was building up to anything,
I would say it was the Siege of Ape Canyon.

(06:40):
But yeah, I mean, dude, the first time I heard
about this story, ah gosh, probably sometime in college when
I got really into the whole Sasquatch subject. Because you
have a random Temecula story. Nice. Also, you didn't pronounce
it that bad when you introduced me.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
So that's flat Rockland met Oakland, who's a good friend
of the show in a regularly a guest as well,
and he says he hesitant to kill a story, so
maybe he can share it in the chat.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah, share it in the chat. Yeah. So when I
started getting into that podcast, I started doing Cryptid Campfire.
That's probably when I first heard about the Ape Canyon story.
It's interesting, this almost made it into the movie. I
went back. As I was making this movie, I went

(07:30):
back and I listened to that episode. It was one
of the earlier episodes, and man, I was just full
of total misinformation, like totally just way off. So yeah,
and then you know, I started getting into the Bigfoot
community meeting the Olympic Project. Of course, Mark Marcell is
part of the Olympic Project, and that's when I first

(07:54):
met him, was back in twenty twenty one. And you know,
I had the idea back of my mind it would
be cool to do it like an Ape Canyon movie,
but it wasn't on the docket, you know. And I
started thinking about it more and more and more as
I did the Olympic Project series Bigfoot The Road to Discovery,
and I had a vision in my head, which would

(08:17):
you know, there's ten episodes of that show. Most of
that covers my time with the main Olympic Project Shane Courson,
Todd Hale, Chris Spencer, Rebecca Slick, Dereck Randalls. Of course,
can't forget him. But I wanted to kind of create
this kind of tapestry of stories that are all set

(08:41):
in the north, the Pacific Northwest that I mean, that's
what you think of when you think of Sasquatch as
the Pacific Northwest. I'm very attractive to the Pacific Northwest.
You know, it's wildly different from southern California. And you know,
so I made that series. I did a special on
clips museum, the North American Bigfoot Center, which is a

(09:03):
phenomenal museum, and the idea, the crown jewel of it
would be the Siege of Ape Canyon, which at that
point I was still calling kind of the Ape Canyon movie,
like it didn't have a name yet, And so I
started talking with Mark about it, and then Seth got
on board. And Seth was originally going to direct, and

(09:24):
I just made a blog post about this talking about
this kind of process. He called me one day and
told me, he said, you know, Eli, I've been really
thinking about it, and I think it makes sense for
you to make this movie. You're the one who knows
Mark really well, and you're already going down to the

(09:47):
cabin side. Because that was the discussion. Seth would lead
the interviews. I would kind of do that in the
field stuff Alex and I and Seth was like, you know,
it just makes sense for you to do it, and
I know that probably hurt, you know, as an artist,
I know, like there's some stories you don't want to
give up, and I could tell this was one of

(10:09):
those ones that he did not want to give up,
but he did and he put me in charge, and
so I was able to make the Crowning Jewel and
do that tapestry the way I wanted to do it,
and so that's kind of how it all came together.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I'm so glad Seth will let you because Seth the
wonderful filmmaker too. But there's something about this film that
you just hit the tonality and everything of it just right.
I do think it's the film that you should have made.
We'll get into the importance of Mark Myrcell in a minute.
I was trying to dig out before because I have
somewhere in my library here his booklet he did on
Ape Canyon all those years ago, which is fantastic. And

(10:45):
I vaguely know Mark only through chat, but he's always
seemed like a wonderful guy and that really comes out
in the show. And that's what I want to ask
you about now. One of the things I loved about this,
and I started to mention when we were talking beforehand,
but we had to jump into the live that this
might be my favorite small town Monsters documentary. I have
a very soft spot for the Boggy Creek Monster because

(11:07):
it's the first one I ever saw in Lyle Blackburn's
So Fantastic, and that he narrates as well the opening
in Ape Canyon, right, so it was great to have
his voice in it. But this film, what I love
about it so much is I think the realm of
paranormal and cryptozoological and euphological documentaries focuses so much on
the phenomenon, but I think it's so hard to capture that.

(11:30):
I think the wonderful strength of this film and what
makes it so engaging, is that it focuses so much
on Markmacell's journey, on the significance of the Ape Canyon story,
to the people that you guys track down who are
family members and descendants of the original miners, as well
as on your own journey. And I love how I

(11:51):
mean that's something people can engage with. The It's hard
to engage with a bigfoot or a UFO or a
ghost or whatever, but when there's a human aspect which
the camera, you know, shifts towards I find it myself
as just a whatdy to spandber and also it was
a filmmaker. I find that stuff so much more engaging.
Which that's something I'm guessing you must have intended it.
But at what stage did you go this is the
direction of the movie.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Oh, I always knew it, so yeah, I kind of
skipped over this in the story. You know, twenty twenty
one is when I first met Mark, And gosh, I
guess I've known him for four years now, but every
time I went up to the Pacific Northwest, it was always,
you know, I always made a trip out to Mark's place,

(12:34):
and Mark and I just hit it off like two
peas in a pod. I mean, that dude is like
my older brother or something, you know. And uh, you know,
you know a person for years. You know, by the
time I made the movie I made that we filmed
in July of last year, I had already known him
for three years. You know, when you know a person

(12:58):
for that long, you talk to them, you get a
sense of not only their ape Canyon passion, you know,
like he says in the film, it's kind of his
midlife crisis. You know, there's so much more to Mark
than just Ape Canyon, you know, like his whole wedding story,
how he met his wife, he got married underground, like

(13:20):
all of that stuff I had heard, you know, being
around Brad, his neighbor. I mean that was I knew
if I was going to tell this story, I had
to include Brad. I wasn't going to not include Brad,
you know. And so it was just like, to me,
the Ape Canyon story was always more about Mark than
it was about proving that gold miners were attacked in

(13:46):
nineteen twenty four. I mean, the case is one hundred
and one years old at this point. Mark was able
to verify that there was a cabin, that there were
miners there, but you can't verify that they were indeed
attacked by sasquatch. The paper trail is very interesting and

(14:10):
would allude to something traumatic happening, but we can't say
one hundred percent certainty that you know, they were attacked
by sasquatch. So it was like, like you said, it's
it's hard to engage with that, but Mark is such
a dynamic person. I was like, this is this is
the Mark Marcell movie.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
You know, and that that was the absolute right choice
of direction that you took the film. We have a
question here from Flat Rock Land, which I'll slightly spin
into another one, and he asks, so you're saying you
talk about the lady and what and the arrow in
the sky, And I guess perhaps perhaps we can talk

(14:50):
a little bit about that. But there's an aspect to
ape Kenyon. I mean, I guess, I don't know if
you want to give the quick overview of the attack
story before I ask what I'm I about to ask,
because they might be listeners today who are aware of
Vibe Canyon, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
I don't know if you.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Want to give it like a quick sculpsis of what
actually happened in a couple of minutes, and then I'll
throw the question before you before the order so everybody
listening knows what we're actually talking about.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah. So, in nineteen twenty four, on the eastern slopes
of Mount Saint Helens there were several miners five or
six I should know this, but there were miners down
on the eastern slopes of Mount Saint Helens. They had
a gold claim and they had blasted a shelf into

(15:33):
the side of the mountain there to build a cabin,
this big log cabin, and as they were there, they
were there for a period of two to three years
before something happened. But there were there were strange events happening,
strange sounds, footprints being found. They were getting a little spooked,

(15:55):
but not enough to make them leave. And so the
day before Leroy Perry Smith, who was the youngest miner,
actually had an encounter with what they called the mountain devil.
You have to keep in mind that the term sasquatch
was not yet coined or bigfoot, that wouldn't come about

(16:19):
until the nineteen fifties, so they called the mountain devils
for lack of a better term. He saw this mountain devil,
he took a couple of shots at it, and it
went down over the side of Ape Canyon and either
fell down or kind of like crouched down. Well, the

(16:44):
other miners who were in the cabin at that moment
heard the shots. They came by, they were like, what's
going on and they all retreated back to the cabin.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Well, that night.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
They were all on edge and these they start hearing
impacts on the cabin from up above, and there's these
large rocks coming down on the cabin and they peer
up through the window and they see these ape men,
these mountain devils that are now there's multiple of them,
that are throwing rocks down on the cabin. And then

(17:19):
they come down and they're trying to break into the cabin.
They're trying to get through the roof, they're trying to
dig a hole underneath the cabin. They're breaking through the window.
And this attack lasts all night long. They are unsuccessful
in their attempt to get inside the cabin, but and

(17:41):
all the miners survived. In the morning, they find all
these footprints on the ground, these like fifteen sixteen inch footprints,
all these rocks all over spread out all over the ground,
you know, the ruins of their cabin as it's been
decimated through the night, and they're just like, we got
to get out of here, so they leave. They end

(18:04):
up telling the press about it. Accidentally, the story goes nationwide.
This is in nineteen twenty four, so that's a big deal.
In nineteen twenty four, they close their mining claim. They
decide the majority of them do not come back. I
think two of them, fred Beck and Leroy Perry Smith
do come back a week later with a news crew,

(18:25):
and there's some wonderful high quality photos of that return
trip that are included in this film. But yeah, that's
kind of a story. More details emerged later in the
nineteen sixties. Nineteen sixty six, I believe Fred Beck published
a book I Fought the Eight Men, a Mount Saint

(18:47):
Helens co authored with his son, and in which he
kind of reveals more details that seem to explain that
there's more supernatural things at work going on with the
Epe Canyon story, which is very interesting because none of
that is included in the original news press or anything

(19:09):
like that.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
So yeah, I find that part fascinating. I think that's
what Flat Rockland was alluding to about the Arowine Sky
and the lady and the white and these accusations of
Fred Beck being a spiritualist and somehow this being some
type of spiritualist hoax.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Or something weird. There's all these different angles.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
To me.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
What I find fascinating about that later fred Beck account
that you talked about that he wrote with his son
is that it gives an awful lot of credence to
people who approach the Sasquatch or Bigfoot phenomenon from the
Wu camp or from the paranormal interdimensional camp, because the
story seems to back up the idea that the ape

(19:51):
man weren't necessarily just physical flesh and blood hominids, you
know what I mean, or undiscovered North American ape men
or whatever the traditional flesh and blood big researchers have
suggested that later retelling of fred Beck, whatever the reality
of it or not, certainly puts the Ape Canyon story
or reimagines or reposits the Ape Canyon story within the

(20:13):
kind of WU camp, which has become increasingly and I'd say
WU in a disparaging way because if anything, if anything,
I'm closer to that interpretation myself.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
But that's what's used in the community, right.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
It puts it closer to that supernatural, paranormal interdimensional approach
to Sasquatch. And I'm glad that it was included in
the story in the film.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Well, yeah, you have to. I mean, that is a
big chunk of the story that is often told, you know,
I think, Oh, yeah, Jared Mitchell, he is in the film.
Hey Jared. Yeah. The thing about fred Beck's account, I

(20:52):
say it co authored by his son. Fred Beck was
involved in some spirit will activities. I would say like
Ouigi card or Ouiji boards, Ouigi cards, tarot cards. You
know that the like, you know, his son seemed to
think he was a kind of savant Edgar Casey type.

(21:16):
You know, perhaps you know, perhaps I don't you know,
I'm a paranormal guy myself. I do believe in that,
you know, I've had my own experiences with that, I think,
So I don't put it past that maybe Fred Beck
did have some of these abilities. Maybe he did, but
to the point where he was an Edgar Casey type.
I don't know, you know that that kind of puts

(21:39):
him on a big level, you know what I mean.
So his son co authored and as it's explained and
kind of investigated in the movie, which is like one
of those things. You know, you can read that book
and just take it at face value, or you can
dig in deeper into the story and find that the

(22:00):
intentions behind the writing of that that pamphlet forty years
later in nineteen sixty seven, nineteen sixty six, you know,
wasn't necessarily Fred's retelling of the story, but more so
his son. And so I think that's where it gets interesting.

Speaker 6 (22:20):
Now.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I think I think the fascinating thing about a story
like this which has such a deep historical roots and
all these different interpretations, is all these different angles, and
again that's a real credit to you that you you
you hit.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
These in the film.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
We had we had a question here which we will
address quickly, and that is, was there any physical evidence
that the supposed sasquatch found at the site, such as footprints, blood,
or anything that backed Fred and the minors story were
bold as found. Well, again, it's one hundred years after,
as you were just saying, but maybe you can maybe
maybe you can talk about some of the physical evidence
that was found there.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Really.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah, well, I would say that that news crew that
came out in nineteen twenty four, a week after it happened,
did find footprints. I'm not sure if they casted one
or not, but they did find footprints. They did find
the rocks there, and that's another thing. We think of
them as boulder sized rocks. That's another thing that came
from Fred Beck's pamphlet, and forty years later, you know,

(23:21):
when pressed, his son did admit that they were not
boulder sized rocks, but rather softball sized, you know, So
it's like those little things they kind of seep from
the credibility of that, I thought the Eight Men of
Mount Saint Helen's book. But yeah, so that that would

(23:42):
be the time frame, you know, a week after the
event happened. You know, in that timeframe is when most
of that physical evidence would have been found. What Mark
did find is he found the foundation of the cabin.
So here's more backstory for you. So, like I said,
after that event, none of the miners returned up there.

(24:06):
And you know, forty years goes by, it's exposed to
all the elements. You know, the roof probably collapsed in
on itself from the snowload. And you know, forty years
does a number on the woods, anything in the woods.
It's not gonna last too long. So you know, his

(24:29):
book comes out. I fought the Eight Men amount Saint
Helen's people, like Peter Burn, they start to get interested
in the story. John Green starts to get interested in
the story. John Green interviewed Fred Beck. And you know,
they attempt to find the cabin. They can't find the cabin.
There's rumors you could see it from the trail. You know,

(24:50):
people are looking out and you can see the cabin
side from the trail, but there is no cabin, so
you're not gonna see really anything, you know, and then
you have to keep in mind too, So that would
have been the late sixties. Nineteen eighty eruption happens while
that while the cabin site itself was protected from the

(25:13):
nineteen eighty blast due to just the natural geography of
the area, I think a lot of people just assumed, well,
now it's now it's really gone because it's probably buried,
you know. And it was Mark you know, land surveyor.
I think that helped out a ton, and he was
able to locate first by locating tree stumps, you know,

(25:37):
looking for tree stumps in an area where it had
never been logged. So you find these old tree stumps
and you're going to be close. He finds a big
tree that kind of matches the description. He brings his
metal detector, and he finds all these old nails, He
finds old spoons, he finds the blade of a saw

(26:01):
that kind of had to be it, you know. So
that's that's kind of what's going on, you know. So
when we went down there, I mean, the foundation of
the cabin itself is under the soil. You know, there's
little bits and pieces of it sticking up out of
the out of the ground. But for the most part

(26:23):
it's hidden away. The one thing Mark could not find
was actually the mine itself. Yeah, as Jared says, it's
very difficult to get down there, incredibly difficult. Might have

(26:44):
been the most dangerous thing I've ever done.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
We can we can talk about some of the perils
in a minute, if you want to come back to that,
because even when watching it, I thought this kind of
ended well, you know, like this looks, this.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
Looks there's a lot of things happened going down there.
But yeah, the mind the mine itself. You know, they
had been there for a couple of years and they
were mining this whole time, and Mark, for the life
of him, could not find it. And so, through another
wild chain of events, the what is it, the grandsons,

(27:17):
the great grandsons of the Leroy, Perry Smith, Jered Mitchell,
Braden Mitchell, Jake Mitchell, they all go down following Mark's directions,
which I think is even crazier because I wouldn't have
been able to find it on my own even if
Mark had given me directions. And they found it, and

(27:39):
they ended up finding the mine, and sure enough it's
there in the stone. They're finding you know, what looks
like old marks on the wall, you know, potentially what
you know probably would have been blasted out with dynamite.
You know, just crazy and uh so I think, you know,
you find the foundation of the cabin, you find all

(28:01):
these old artifacts, and you find a mind. It all
matches the story right in the exact area that it's
supposed to be in. You know, I think Mark definitely
found it and the mental has definitely found the mind.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
So it's an impressive it's an impressive amount of research
that Mark Marsell did to to bring this story.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
To life in the modern world. We have we have
a question.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Here from Crash Course Cryptozoology, and that is the cover
for the book pamphlet recounting the story. I thought the
Eight Men of Mountain Helen's has always interested me. Was
that cover art and eyewitness drawing or was it drawn
by becksn And it's a bigfoot face on the cover.
Just for people who haven't seen the book.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah, that's a great question. And maybe Mark Mark is
texting me here offscreen, maybe he can provide some additional
info that.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
I have no doubt Mark would know.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Mark would know, right a copy.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Lay a text mark because you did tell me you'd
be you were going to be listening, so we can
respond to that question. But was there No, I weren't
asking sure questions As a filmmaker, of course, that's terrifying
at the level were you concerned when you.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Were going down there though? We like, were you like,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Know if this is a safe thing to do to
take my crew down there and shoot down off this.
I mean, God bless you that you did, because it's
a fantastic movie. But there must have been moments where
you were like, this is I'm pushing the limits here?

Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yes? Quick? Uh. The cover was drawn by Ronald Beck,
Fred Back's son Excellent.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
So yeah, the track down. I had been warned by
Mark and by Shane that it was a dangerous trip,
and I there's a lot going on there, and I
was actually getting stress dreams. So my brother actually went

(30:11):
with me. My brother plays Leroy Perry Smith in the Recreations,
so fantastic, and my brother plays his I guess he
would be his father in law, Marion Smith. So that's
it's kind of fun that my family is also in
this movie.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
So that is a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Yeah, but yeah, oh no, that would be his father,
Maryon Smith. Was his father Leroy Perry Smith. They have
the same last name. I don't know what I'm thinking,
so yeah, but kind of cool that I also got
father son dynamic in the recreations, you know, Like but yeah,

(30:54):
So my brother was actually there on Mount Saint Helen's
with me, going down into the canyon, and I had
a stress dream about a week before where I was
climbing up out of the canyon and I heard my
brother go whoa, And I turned around and I looked

(31:16):
and my brother was wearing a backpack and he had
lost his balance and the pack was pulling him back
and he ended up falling down into the canyons. And
I like woke up in the middle of the night
and I was like, holy crap, this cannot happen. And so,

(31:38):
you know, I'm a little superstitious. So when we were there,
there was indeed a backpack, pretty heavy pack, and you know,
everyone else was like, oh, I can carry that pack
for you, Eli, and I was like no. And I
didn't tell anyone about the dream because I didn't want
to like speak it into existence, you know. And so
I was like if we're going down there, I'm wearing

(32:00):
the pack down and up and I did wow.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Huh, Well, I just said, wow.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Yeah, you didn't want anyone to to I didn't want
that dream to come true. And you know, funny thing too.
You know there's that shot at the end of the
trailer where I'm filming Mark going down and my camera
was in a sling bag and I had I was
had the sling bag around me through the backpack on

(32:32):
actually let me go back. So that was my intention
to have that kind of setup. And so the sling
bag was on the ground, I threw the backpack on first.
The backpack caught the strap of the sling bag and
I didn't notice it, and I threw the backpack on
and it flung the sling bag with the camera off

(32:56):
the side of the canyon. And I thought at that moment,
like I am totally screwed, Like I'm gonna have to
tell Seth that we can't film this movie now because
the camera's gone. And it's sort of Yes, you have
heard about the coyote dream at Bluff Creek, crazy stuff. Yes,

(33:17):
sometimes my dreams are weird. Man. Luckily it got caught
on like a bush or something, and we had walkie talkies.
The Mitchell's had already gone down and I told them, Hey,
I lost my camera and they're like, oh, we'll go
look for it. And I'm like, what, I just see
them trekking across the side, you know, no fear, you know,

(33:41):
and it's like you see that and you're like, first off,
when you're there, you're like, who would build a cabin
and a mine down here in this place? And then
you see Jared and Brayden just trekking across it like
it's flat ground, and you're like, oh, their grandpa, Yeah,

(34:02):
and their grandpa would do that, you know, they would
probably do that, you know. And they found it and
it was still intact, and you know the movie. We
proceeded on down and you know, I was slipping and
sliding all the way down there. You know, a couple
of times I thought I was gonna die. But it's

(34:24):
all fine and dandy. You know. We were there at
the cabin site. I don't want to spoil the movie
too much, but my friend Tyler Hall, he ended up
having an accident with a knife, cutting himself open, and
that was just totally I mean, that was we were
all so focused on not falling that we were not

(34:45):
paying attention to what else could go wrong, you know,
And yeah, that's all in the movie, you know, not
the camera bit, but you know that that bit is
in the movie where Tyler cuts himself open, and it's
just like, wow, that's crazy, and like you couldn't ask
for like a worst place for that to happen, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, in the in the middle of in the middle
of nowhere and so far from any and the film
deals with that. But we won't spoil it anymore. I
have a question for you, and then I'll throw it
to a couple of questions in the chat because I've
got a few that have built up, And that is,
what was it like when you actually got to that
cabin site like ground zero of arguably one of the

(35:29):
most important canonical kind of myths of Bigfoot Low, one
of the key stories in the development of the way
that we look at Sasquatch today. What was it like
being there at this at this site?

Speaker 4 (35:45):
It was pretty surreal. I mean, the first thing Tyler
and I said to each other, I mean, we always
think of that. When people think of Ape Canyon, they
probably think of that. Frank Prizetta is esque. You know,
I don't know if it was Prizetta who drew that
or painted that, but you know that very dramatic shot

(36:08):
you have, you know, the ape man up here throwing
the rocks down. When you get to the site, you realize, oh,
the depictions are all wrong. They have like always been
completely wrong. So yeah, seeing that, you know, it's definitely
a lot steeper than you would think. I mean it's

(36:30):
literally on the side of a mountain. It's not they
had to blast a shelf in order to build the cabin,
you know. I mean that should tell you, like, I
wonder where they were standing when they did that. But yeah,
I mean it's it's being there and all those trees
are those old growth trees, like Mark had said, you know,

(36:54):
had never been logged before. I don't even know how
you would get logging equipment down there in the first place.
You know, that area survived the eruption. I mean, so
you're kind of transported back in time. You're seeing the
same trees that they saw just one hundred years later. Wow.

(37:16):
But yeah, I mean that's definitely an area where Sasquatch is.
I mean, that's even talked about a little bit in
the movie with Brad. Brad had an experience of hearing stuff.
They found footprints, Actually they found footprints on two occasions,
and there is a cast from up there. You kind

(37:38):
of yah, I'm kind of answering that around the cabin.
I would bet that they're down there. You know, no
one's staying down there, but yeah, the Mark has reported activity.
I have reported activity from that area from that trip.
You know, just some mind blowing stuff is going on
still in that area. I mean even and on the

(38:00):
other side of the mountain. I talk about this in
my series Bigfoot The Road to Discovery. You have the
North Fork Survivors Museum led by Joe bon Giovanni, who
is doing research up there. Chris Spencer and Rebecca were
doing research there back in the day. There's there is

(38:21):
sasquatch activity on Mount Saint Helen's definitely.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
I think I have heard once upon a time, it's
probably just some weird apocryphal kind of tale, but that
when Mountain Helens erupted, there were bigfoot bodies that were
dragged out of there which had been killed in the
eruption or some such.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, I've also heard the same I dedicate a good
chunk of my one of the episodes of the Road
to Discovery about that particular tale. Wow, I don't put
a whole lot of stock into it.

Speaker 6 (38:55):
You know.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
When you look at some of the historical pictures, you know,
it's just completely blasted. So that story, you know, there's
kind of two stories meshed into one. One that people
saw a helicopter going up into the air carrying all
the bodies of the charred remains of these Sasquatches. But

(39:19):
there's also this tale of one was found still alive,
and so they were able to drive it around the
destroyed zone and able to you know, find others. It
was going in caves looking for other ones, you know,
and it's like it's so fantastic because you look at
the photos of the aftermath of that eruption. No people

(39:44):
were barely walking through there, much less driving or getting
helicopters in, you know, like you know, helicopters were flying over. Yes, absolutely,
were they landing I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Up massive bigfoot carcasses, you know. So we have another
question from Professor Horace Smith is Professor or Professor Emerius
of Astronomy and Physics at Michigan State University's a good
friend of the show, and he's been on before, and
he always has very insightful questions. He asked, are there
private documents about the event dating the nineteen twenties or

(40:22):
the newspaper accounts or we have from that time period?
Mining archives is safer than finding the mind So it's
kind of a question and a comment.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
It's true private documents about the event, I'm not sure
if there are. I don't think they've been found, so
I wouldn't rule it out. I mean, that's always the
trouble with historical cases. You know. I did a historical
case about a UFO cult here in my hometown of Temecula.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
I love that film, by the way, I thank you.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Yeah, I think we talked about that. Yeah. So, And
even then I found a cabin with that one too,
also on the side of a mountain. But one of
the frustrating things about that is I had found out
that there were documents from that time period written by
the people who were there, but could not find existing

(41:22):
copies of those to this day, you know, And that
happened in the nineteen forties, in the nineteen fifties, you know.
Mark here says that mining documents exist in Skamania County Archives.
Mining documents exist. But I think what the questioner was

(41:44):
asking was, maybe, you know journal entries, you know, private
thoughts about the particular incident. You know that I don't
know that, I don't know, and maybe there are, but
are they still in existence? And if they are, who
has them? You know?

Speaker 2 (42:03):
I thought was something I was aware of in the
film as well, that the granddaughter of one of them
miners had never heard the story throughout throughout family history.
Like you guys essentially introduced her to the story of
ip Kenyan and then she became really fascinated and became
a massive alive. But before that she just was oblivious
to it.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Well, I think that too, You know, that speaks to
the power of that event. You know, no matter which
way you want to look at it, it was either
a hoax. You know, they made up the story, and
you know, they ended up closing their their mining claim
that same day, the day they came off the mountain

(42:43):
that is in record. So what would be the reason
for that. They've been working this mine for years and
years and years and they just decide randomly to make
up a wild story to close down their claim. I mean,
I'm sure you could just close down your claim without
making up a story and so, but I think that

(43:04):
speaks to the power of that event being so you know,
out of the ordinary, so frightening, so horrifying, that they
were like, we're not coming back and we're not going
to talk about this, And they did not talk about
that even to their own family members.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
You know, yeah, it would be difficult, it'd be a
difficult thing, particularly back in the early nineteen twenties when
bigfoot hadn't become a cultural phenomenon yet. Like now we
have language that we can use to instantly explain what
we saw, where we saw a bunch of bigfoot attacking
the cabin, and everybody knows what it is. But like,

(43:43):
you know, mountain devils, ape man, you had to try
to back then. You can tell they're trying to work
out the way to describe what these things are that
are attacking there isn't that there was already this preset
cultural expectation of you know, these things in the woods.

Speaker 4 (44:00):
Right right, they call them mountain devils. And I think,
you know, eight man, I thought the eight men of
Mount Saint Allen's, you know, the term sasquatch. The term bigfoot,
you know, in the nineteen twenties. They didn't exist in
the late nineteen sixties, you know, probably still not as
widely known as it is now. You know.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah, it's I always find it interesting how the bigfoot
phenomenon we think it's been here. Well, the actual phenomenon,
as far as people experiencing things, might have been here
for a long time, but the cultural phenomenon is relatively new.
I think I mentioned to you before. Anybody who watches
this show regularly knows that I'm currently making a feature

(44:46):
documentary about ray Palmer, who, amongst other things.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Launched Fate magazine.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
And funnily enough, last night, when I was looking at
the Northern Lights, I happened to check my mailbox because
I hadn't that day and the latest issue of Fate
was waiting for me. And I love the fact that
something that was founded back in nineteen forty eight still
exists today, the longest running paranormal magazine on the planet.
But I have a big back catalog of Fate magazines here,
particularly during Raye Palmer's run before he sold his interests

(45:13):
to his to the co editor and co publisher Curtis Fuller.
But when you look at those first eighty or so
issues of Fate magazine, if I asked somebody to day, oh,
what do you think was on Fate Magazine, they'd be
saying Bigfoot would come up as one of the things
they would say. But in those first like seventy eighty issues,
the only thing resembling Bigfoot on the cover of one

(45:35):
of them is and it's one of the latest. Some
of the art was divided into three so it would
have like, you know, ghosts and flying sources and something else.
The only one is one of the Yetti, the Abominable Snowman.
Because we were aware and we were talking about the
Abominable Snowman in the forties into the fifties. But Bigfoot
was not a cultural phenomenon here at all. It wasn't

(45:56):
even I think it literally took up until It wasn't
really until the sixties that this thing emerged as a
point of interest in the American paranormal community. In fact,
when it appeared here first, people would compare it to
the Yeri. They would compare it to the Abominable Snowman,
like America's Yeti, America's Abominable Snowman. Like it's so weird

(46:17):
to think that not that long ago, Bigfoot wasn't a thing.

Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah, I mean you even read Ivan Sanderson's book What
is It?

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah, it's got like I've got it on my shelf too.
It's like it's got like abominable Snowman.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
Abominable Snowman legend didn't come to life or something like that.
But he has a chapter on Sasquatch. But the chapter
is titled Abominable Snowman of America.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
You know, it's like wow, you know because today most
more people are probably familiar with the term Bigfoot or
Sasquatch than they are with YETI. I mean, people know
what YETI is as well. But if you saw something
in the woods here, you wouldn't go it was a Yechi,
but an American version, you know. You was just yeah,
that's right. So and so that really that that I

(47:07):
think illustrates more than anything else when Canyon happened, there
was no cultural context for this stuff.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
Oh absolutely, oh absolutely not. Yeah, yeah, but that's just
one of the it's just it's a highly fascinating story case,
you know, and it's just like, you know, and I
would argue too. You know again, I wrote a blog
post about this. But the story itself, I would say,

(47:35):
didn't end in nineteen twenty four. You know, the story
is everything else that happened afterwards. Yeah, Robert Morgan, what
a legend. But you know, the story also includes Fred
Beck and Ronald Beck's pamphlet. Yeah. Nice, totally not supposed

(47:58):
to do that. And then you know, I make the
argument that the story continued with Mark Marcel and this
whole thing, with the Mentals getting involved and you know,
Betty Mitchell finding out about the story. I mean, the

(48:19):
story created waves throughout time and that and that that's
kind of too like what the movie is about, too, right,
It's like the Eight Canyon story is more than just
what happened in nineteen twenty four. That makes sense, you're following.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Me, It absolutely is.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
I think I think the film the film travels through
generations and through multiple people who are interested in this.
I mean, again, I can't tell you how much I
loved it. There's an interesting question here. Did the other
minders give interviews and accounted the same way that Fred
did about the events?

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Not in the same way because none of them wrote pamphlets,
but like I said, Well, Fred Beck and Leroy Smith
went back up about a week later, they gave the
same account. Yeah, Albert Rossman happened the same year. That's interesting. Yeah,

(49:24):
so they went back out there about a week after
they got they gave the same story to the press.
Like I said, they found footprints, they found the rocks,
you know, they saw the cabin. But other than that,
I mean, if if they didn't say anything to the press,
we don't really have anything else from the other miners.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
So yeah, it was another interesting question. He had just
see if I count fun of me kidding out, there's
a lot of activity in the chet tonight, which is
which is so No, I can't I can't see at
the moment. But there's something I wanted to ask you
or talk to you about just then, because I hadn't

(50:08):
even really thought about that. We talk a lot. Cultural
contamination fascinates me. The idea that one story becomes another story,
it does, right. Somebody pointed out that Albert Ostaman's story
happened the same year as Abe Canyon.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Did Austinman come out in twenty four and talk about
that though, or I think he? I think he came
out years later and talked about it. So, I mean,
I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I'm not.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
You might know the timeline better than I do. Eli
Sasquatch is in my wheelhouse.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
I'm not sure. I know that one of the first
interviews he ever gave was to John Green. I think
maybe he did an interview with Patterson as well, but yeah,
I don't I don't think he would have told I mean,
even the way he talks to John Green about it,

(50:54):
he's very closed about it, you know, he's very he
doesn't share all the details, and I think there was
that kind of level of old school politeness about it,
you know that. I don't know if you would have
said anything back in the nineteen twenty. Somehow, some way

(51:14):
through the grapevine. John Green heard about it, so he
must have said something to somebody back then. But yeah,
it's an interesting story.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
I don't think it went through over the news wise
or whatever the equivalent was, Like eight Kenyon did that,
Like you used to say in the documentary, how you
were finding eight Canyon stories not just in the Pacific
Northwestern papers there, but how it kind of spread across
the country.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
Yeah, I don't think. I don't think the Asman case
was like that.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
No, So.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
I received a message from Mark in Facebook. Then he
said Refate magazine and Ivan Sanderson. Maybe Ivan Sanderson wrote
that piece I'm talking about in Fate Magazine. I'd have
to go and pull it out again. I've got so
many raving publications in my office. I'm drowning, drounding. And
then did you do you find I'm sure you do,

(52:08):
but there's something captivating or something that captures you as
a filmmaker or as a scholar or however you pursue
this material when you when you buy it into something.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Did you find ape can you?

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Obviously you're having dreams about your brother falling that he
was dooming there, But did you find it became something
that like took over your life for like the period
in the lad pre production and development, throughout the film
and probably still today.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
Yeah, it did take over my life for the better
part of a year where I was thinking about it
all the time. Yeah, it's just you know, someone asked
me today, They're like, oh, so when did you start
that movie? And I was like, well, I filmed it
in July, and they're like, well, what was like pre
production like? And I was like, I probably first started

(52:58):
talking about it January of twenty twenty four, and they're like,
and it's just now coming out. I was like, yeah,
I guess that's like two years. You know, it's kind
of weird to think about it that way, but it
doesn't feel like two years. But yeah, I mean, dude, yeah,

(53:20):
it's just uh, it does have a way of taking
over your life. And but in a way, you know,
that was the I experienced a turning point at one
point in my career at Small Town Monsters, and that
was and you can see it. It's a big pivotal
shift when I started making Bigfoot. The road to discover

(53:44):
it because if you watch it before anything I did before,
it's always, you know, very much it's about Sasquatch. It's
about whatever phenomenon is truly happening. And I think I
discovered this while making Mysteries and Monsters, was that's not

(54:04):
the story. You know, The story is the people, and
that's always something that's interested to me. And that's why
I think the Ape Canyon was such a big draw
for myself because in many ways, the Ape Canyon story
bit with the recreations and everything that was just that's

(54:25):
the least interesting part of the movie to me. Everything
that's about Mark or Brad or going down to the
cabin site. You know, that's what's interesting to me because
that's that's more real to me. You know, it's like, yeah,
it's fun to do those recreations. Like I said, I
got my dad, I got my brother. You know, they're
all helping me. We're going up into the mountains here

(54:47):
in southern California. Yeah, you watch the first three minutes
of this movie and it's filmed in various states. You
got footage from Washington, California, Ohio, different mountains in California.
It's like every shot is in a completely different place
and you really can't tell. And that's what's cool about it.

(55:12):
But yeah, that stuff is always fun, but that's not
to me. That's not what the story is about, you know,
And to me, the story is Mark Marcel. The story
is you know, you know, John Pickering is one of
my favorite people. You know, he's been texting me on side.
But John Pickering, I mean I met him. I mean

(55:34):
that was totally kind of fate how that all lined up.
I met him at a Bigfoot convention. I interviewed him
in my hotel room. I was like, I have to
get you in this movie. And he's like, well, you know,
I'm not really I'm like, shut up and just do it.
And he's the one who, you know, kind of cracked
the code on Fred Beck and Ronald Beck's pamphlet. I mean,

(55:56):
he interviewed Ronald Beck. Yeah, I mean that's you know,
it's like, I don't know anyone else who got to
do that. I mean Mark Mark didn't get to do that.
He missed Ronald by a few years. So it's like,
to me, John Pickering is like a huge part of
the story. And that's what I mean. The story keeps
going and it draws in these people from all these

(56:17):
different backgrounds, and it's like and then I come along
and I'm like trying to make a movie about it,
and fate has its mysterious way of working that draws
me into these people's orbit.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
You know, it's like, well, you're part of the story
now too. That's the I think the Observer becomes part
of the story. And I think it's quite clear that
the way Ape Kenyon will be looked at going forward.
There's no way that the story can't be talked about
historically without talking about this documentary, and so Eli Watson

(56:49):
has become part of the Epekenyon mythology, which is cool.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
I mean, even we went down what you see of
Mark talking at the cabin site when my friend Tyler
cut himself. That happened one hundred years to the day
of the attack. I mean, that's weirdly historic. When you
think about blood being shed, you know, is there something

(57:19):
spiritual going on there?

Speaker 3 (57:21):
You know that's the woo again. Anyway, that's the wu.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
It is, dude, you can't escape it.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
But it's really hard to escape it. There's the funny
timucular story. I would just put it up on screen
for people who want to see it. That Flat Rockland
mentioned it before, so they can they can go and
read it in the chat I do have. We're getting
very close to wrapping though, if you've got a few

(57:47):
more minutes, so I'll ask you another question from squatch Mama,
who is a wonderful supporter of the show, and squatch
Mama asks, what was your biggest challenge in turning this
story into a cinematic experience.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
I'm trying to verbalize it because I know exactly what
it is. I think the original cut of Ape Canyon
was about two hours long, and there's a lot of
good bits, particularly with Brad, because I am a huge
fan of Brad, and I hope, oh, thanks Jared, that's

(58:31):
really nice. I think Brad making Brad work into the
movie because Brad is such a unique personality and Mark
is also a unique personality, and it's this is what
I guess I'm trying to get at is there's all
these people with very unique personalities that have been brought

(58:52):
together and they're all united by this Ape Canyon story,
and that can be hard to kind of piece together.
And I think the biggest part of it, you know,
I'm stuck here with this two hour cut and I'm
trying to make changes. I'm trying to tweak it, and
I finally I sent it to Seth and I'm like, Seth,

(59:14):
can you give me some feedback? And he's like, well,
it's good, and I'm like, no, I need you to
like put on your storyteller hat and like help me
crack the code, because yeah, it's good, but it's like
I know it can be better. And he was like, well,
why don't you rearrange the whole movie, and I was like,
holy cow, I've never even thought of that. And when

(59:39):
I rearranged it, the story came together in a really natural,
beautiful way. And so I have Seth really to thank
for that. You know, it's like you get lost as
a storyteller in your own story and it takes someone
on the outside to be like, why don't you just
do it this way?

Speaker 2 (59:57):
You're like, Wow, that's great, and no, Seth' such talent
and it's great that you guys have such a wonderful
working relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
There's one final question.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
I was going to ask you something similar, and that
was for your next documentary. Are you're going after another
historic Bigfoot story event or another mystery event? Maybe I
was going to ask you, can you give us a
hint of what your next project is going to be
or is it all under wraps?

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Yeah? I can give you a very brief sneak peek.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
It is something far more recent, only a couple months old.
We're approaching the one year mark. Wow, And it's something topical,
something I've never quite done before, and something that has

(01:00:49):
a lot to do with fire. And that's all I'll say.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Man, everyone's going to be excited. Now I'm excited, but Eli,
it's so great to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
This is the third time you've been on Talking Weed,
and I sure, as a devil, I hope it won't
be the last. Where do people get a hold of
where do they watch Ape Canyon? Even though I'll have
links in the show notes of course, Where do they
keep track of what you're doing your upcoming projects? At
any other uurls or salts or anything you want to

(01:01:20):
point anybody out?

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Yeah, I think if you want to keep up with me,
I haven't been as active on social media as of late,
but you can check out my instagram. That's the Eli Watson.
Small Town Monsters is a great place. They're always putting
out new content. What I was gonna say, as for

(01:01:44):
Ape Canyon itself to watch that, it's available now on
iTunes for rent or for purchase. I think YouTube tv,
Google Play, and I think it will be streaming this
Sunday on the Small Town Monsters YouTube channel, So let's
say give that a whirl.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Fantastic, Well man, it was a great joy talking to you,
as it always is. Thank you so much for coming
on Talking Weird again.

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
Ela. Thank you. Thank you for having me man. It's
been a blast, and.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
It always is talking to you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Until I talk to you again, Ela, which hopefully will
be soon, Hopefully at least after your next film comes out,
we'll have you back and until I talk to everybody else,
which will be same weird time, same weird network, the
talking weird network, not really the untold radio network.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
I don't have my own network. I'm on until Reado Network.
Please keep it weird.