Big Fat Liar (2002) | Episode #469 - Victims and Villains

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, thank you for tuning into the Victims and Villains podcast.
I understand the speed has been notoriously absent and empty
for quite some time. Truth be told, the further we've
expanded out, the more that we've been trying to figure
out what this feed needs to be, and we're trying
to really put a lot of emphasis on mental health

(00:28):
conversation for this speed. So I thank you guys for
tuning in. And you might be like, this is a
weird movie to talk about with mental health, but we'll
get into that later. My name is Josh. If you
guys are new to Victims and Villains. We are a
multimedia nonprofit that creates content like what you're listening to
right now. You support some Patreon This is like what
you're watching right now, to talk about mental health through

(00:50):
pop culture, what pop culture teaches us about mental health,
what we can gauge from it, how it affects us
and our own mental health. And I am so thrilled
to be joined kicking off a brand new series for
you guys called Thankful Thursdays. This is a series we're
gonna be doing throughout the entire month of November talking

(01:11):
about movies that we are thankful for and how they've
impacted our mental health. And I am joined by a
good friend of the show and the brand, miss Kelly Reynolds.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Always happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
That was a longer introduction that I intended on, so
thank you for bearing with me.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
I loved it. I loved I mean, give the people
what they want.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, hopefully they want. They want a movie. They want
a conversation about you know, sex mental health in this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So m my three favorite things.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, you are getting ready to release a brand new
book called Santa Monica Baby, and I had to throw
that a little bit, nailed it, mailed it. A lifetime
pro coos in there. Tell us a little bit about
what this book is all about.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, actually funny enough, a little bit of sex, mental health.
And it does take place in Los Angeles, so there
is a little bit of the movie industry in there
as well. But yeah, this is the third and most
likely final book in my first book series, which is
The Holidays in la And I grew up in California

(02:31):
and when I decided to start writing romance novels of
my own, I decided that I wanted to write something
that kind of combined all of my favorite things. And
I happen to absolutely love the holiday season. Basically anything
between October and January first I am here for. So
this is my last book in the series. They all

(02:53):
take place in Los Angeles around Christmas time, and it's
it's a rarity for romance because we usually have holiday
romance with a lot of snow. But like I said,
I grew up in California, so I have never known
a white Christmas myself, So this is more of like
crop top Christmas. If that's your vibe, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
I remember I was visiting my aunts and my uncle
and all of their family live in Texas, and I
remember they they've lived in Texas for over twenty years now,
and i'd visit in them maybe like ten years ago,
and I remember we got snow on Christmas and they
were like they were just like taken back. They're like,

(03:34):
we've never seen this. We didn't actually know anything that
this was right right. I live on the East Coast
and I don't think I think I've had maybe two
white Christmases. Like white Christmas seems like a very wish fulfillment,
very romance exercise.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, like I feel like, you know, I lived
in the Midwest for a few years, and I don't
think I actually do think it actually snowed on Christmas
one year, but I had gone home for the holidays,
so I missed it. But yeah, no, it was always
kind of like a little too early. We usually got
snow closer to like the Super Bowl time of year.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, here in Virginia we get it like very sporadically,
so like I think we we we got it one
year in March almost April, and it was really weird
to like think that. I was like, man, like, this
is this is the time where like you're supposed to
be like getting into hoodies and transitioning like sleeveless shirts.
But you know, crops off Christmases are cool though, so

(04:36):
you know, you get to you get to have those.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's so true. Well, and honestly, I've had a lot
of readers from you know, places like Texas and Florida
and even a few years ago. You know, I do
a holiday special on my podcast called The Twelve Days
of Boobsmiths, which will be back this December on Boobies
and Newbies. But I actually had a guest from New
Zealand on a few years ago, and we were talking

(05:00):
about like what Christmas looked like for her in New
Zealand because it's summer, but they still celebrate Christmas. So
for them, for her family, it was a lot of
you know, barbecuing and like playing lawn games, you know,
And so it really is funny that, you know, I mean,
the holiday season just looks different for everybody. And again

(05:23):
that's I like to write the books that I want
to read. So I saw a lack in holiday romance
representation for the people from warmer climates, so I decided
to write one.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Well that's ultimately what ends up happening, right, is that
we look around at the content we wish, we we
want it, and we look around and say, all right,
well where is it. If it's not anywhere to be found,
it's okay, Well then I will take this up and
run with it. What I'm what I'm curious about with this, uh,

(05:57):
this third book in the series. You the other two
entries meet me in.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Los Falise, and I.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Don't remember the other one. I have it floating somewhere.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Venice actually, and just just for to put it all together,
all the pieces together. They are all neighborhoods in the
Los Angeles area.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Okay, so, so my my question for you is, uh,
are these all books kind of connected the anthological in
the storytelling?

Speaker 2 (06:26):
They are. They are connected in that you will see
crossover between characters in each one. But kind of the
way that I love to describe the wonderful world of
romance is that so many series, and this is what
I would call a series, are comparable to the Marvel
cinematic universe, where you have characters that cross over in

(06:49):
each other's books, but like each each couple that falls
in love has their own book, so like this is
Thor's book, this is oh my god, I'm like on
all my Marvel heroes, this is the old Man book,
so iron Man. Yeah, and so exactly like you might
see appearances from the other ones. For instance, in the

(07:11):
first one, you know they fall in love, and the
second one it's their best friends who fall in love,
and so you still get to see the couple that
you maybe really liked from the first book, but they're
not the central focus of the story. So that is
a very long winded answer to tell you that you
can start with book three, you can start at the beginning.
It makes no difference.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
You also have another series of books that you're currently
also working on that are sports themed as well.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
I do go ahead, so getting away from Los Angeles,
I now live in Portland, Oregon, and I absolutely adore
the Pacific Northwest, and I'm also a sports fan. So
I decided to combine those two things and write a
baseball romance series set just outside of Portland. We it

(07:58):
is a tragedy to this day that we do not
have a professional baseball team in Portland, but here's hoping
that that'll change. So this is kind of be manifesting
that into existence. But one of the things you'll see
whether you read my holiday series or my baseball romance
series I actually just put out book to a couple

(08:19):
of months ago, is that I love to write my
plus sized babes. I love to write queer characters. I
try to write a lot of men who are very
in touch with their feelings and emotions in a safe
and healthy way that you know, still break it down
in the bedroom, because, like you, one is not mutually

(08:41):
exclusive from the other.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah. Absolutely, That's one of the things that I've the
books that I have read of here that I've really
enjoyed it, you know, I think I think you spent
enough time talking about romance and like you have a
firm grasp on like what the genre like not only is,
but what it needs and what it would be. Uh.
That I've really liked. And that's one of the things

(09:03):
I really value about having you as a friend is
that you always challenge me to do new and exciting things.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Oh what a great company.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, uh, the three of them are are currently available now.
Venice actually Mimi lost Felice, and the It's something with
Sin I don't remember the type.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Santa Monica Baby, Yeah, end this episode.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
No, No, the sports book that the base.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Oh yeah, the first one is hit It and Quit It.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Hit and Quit It? Uh and then yeah, So the
Santa Monica Baby is coming out November nineteenth. Where can
people pick them up? Where can people read them and
check them? Check you guys out.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I am in Kindle unlimited, So if you do have
that Ku subscription, you know, you can just download it
that way. If you prefer to read paperback versions of
your book, you can and find them on Amazon. And
actually they're popping up into more bookstores lately than I
initially thought, so a lot of times you do have

(10:10):
to order online from the bookstore. But I have had
my fair sharing bookstores this year and that's made me
happy to see when readers send me photos of Ma
Lil books popping up and you know, Virginia bookstores. I
don't know, I am not saying that that's real, but yeah.
I also have my website, which is a combination of
both me and my podcast, so it's Boobiesandnowbies dot com.

(10:35):
And in December, I'll be back with twelve holiday romance
reviews on the podcast, with hopefully, hopefully you joining me
for one of them, because you're always welcome.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
I you know, I always I'm always down for that's
that's absolutely fine with me. So you've probably clicked on
this episode and you're probably like, why is a romance
novelist and a horror podcaster talking about Big fat Liar?
Go with me here fiffle or bfl as that's come

(11:07):
to be known. Uh, we're gonna talk. We're gonna talk
about that on the other side of this commercial break.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Did Jason you're a wake yet that bit of for
hours Jays? Did you eat your own meal?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah? Thanks, Mommy was delicious. Jason Shepherd likes to stretch
the truth. Producer Marty Woolf has never told the truth.
I think we just hit a kid.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
I'm on the phone.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Fate brought them together.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Thanks for a right, gentlemen, but a lie. We'll keep
them together.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
Big Fat Liar is already being touted us next summer's
must see movie event.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
That guy stole my paper. I'd you come up with
this idea? Some ideas just come to you. Yeah, from
my backpack, you loser packer backs were going on the trip.
Now two friends are on a mission. Hey remember me,
I big liar. This is Hollywood. We played by our own.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Rules to make one man's life a living nightmare.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
It's heay that time.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
They're airborne?

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Got it? What's parbot? We're going to drop?

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Can I take a message? Mister Wilf is about to
go into a meeting.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Color Die, You really think it's gonna work?

Speaker 2 (12:26):
What charisma from Marcus duncansthe give me as a dress?
Eight six seven North Maple.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Drive, Die, Frankie Munez, Amanda Vines and paulgy A mar Jadie.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Marty, I like you your coloring. It works for you.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
You did this, Big Fat liar.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
We're moving into phase.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Four back off man.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
And I told me to pay up a little blue car.
They didn't say anything about a little blue man.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
That.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Well, Howdy, howdy howdy. This is welcome back to the
Victims and Villain's podcast, where we are talking about big
Fat Liar today. And this was a staple and a
lot of childhood homes. So I'm kind of curious before
we jump into talking about the meat potatoes of this.
What is this?

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (13:26):
What has like? What's your relationship with this movie?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Oh? I saw this in theaters. But I saw this
in movie theaters. I would have been maybe ten or
eleven when it came out, so I feel like probably
the target demographic. I think this is probably on a
list of movies that my dad took me to that
he's regretted for the last thirty years. That being said,

(13:54):
I went hard for this movie because I thought Frankie
Munas was super horrible. I really loved Amanda Vines because
I'm pretty sure this was actually the first movie she did.
And even then, though I grew up on you know,
the Amanda Show and Nickelodeon and all that, and so

(14:18):
I knew who she was, Like going into the movie.
But she also wears like this really cool feathery like
wrap around sweater for like ninety percent of the movie,
and I remember thinking at the time that that was
the coolest, coolest article of clothing ever, And honestly, on rewatch,

(14:39):
I still think it's pretty rad.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, this movie. This movie, Like I've gone back and
watched a lot of the movies like I grew up with,
and this is one of those films that just like
that's not always the occasion, because like I've gone back
and watched films that I really loved growing up, and
I'd be like, man as an adult, like this is agwash.
There's just something like timeless about this. But this also

(15:05):
is like if I had to, like ever show a
generation what it was like growing up at the turn
of the century, this is the movie you show them
because not only did it capture the fashion, as you mentioned,
capture the music, the insaneity of this like crazy just
this movie is such a fever dream. And I could

(15:28):
say that because I watched it earlier this year when
I got sick and it just felt normal to me.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, it really is a wild ride, and it's
one of those ones where I genuinely don't think I've
watched this. I've seen it maybe one other time since
it came out in two thousand and two, So this
was like a brand new real and as I'm watching
it though, I'm remembering like so many things from it.

(15:56):
But then there were also a bunch of parts that
I was like, this is it's probably comedy that went
right over my head when I watched this as a kid,
or I don't remember this scene at all, Like I
don't remember them making this movie with you know, Irkele
and a chicken like I. It just there were so
many pieces that I did not remember. I remember like

(16:18):
the overall plot, and I could see like the overall picture,
and especially like that final scene at the end. I
remember that, but everything in between was like watching it fresh.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah. I think when you talked to most people that
grew up on this movie probably also have those same
stories to where they're like, I don't remember a lot
of the nitty gritty details of it. I remember the
hungry like the wolf scene where he turns blue, and
that's kind of like the extent of it. Like I
remember like the montage warehouse scenes, the Batman and Robin

(16:51):
Gorillas show up. This show up in this movie at
one point. But I'm gonna hit you with some trivia
just randomly throughout the course of this. Did you know
that Amanda Bynes was not actually the first pick for Kaylee.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
No No, And now I'm thinking like two thousand, two
thousand and one, two thousand and two.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
So the original actress that signed on for this was
Lindsey Lohan.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Oh my god, that makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
She dropped out very close to shooting because she decided
she wanted to kind of take a year off of acting,
which is where she ultimately ended up doing Freaky Friday
and Mean Girls with the the The anchor of the
film was always Frankie Munas he was the biggest star
of that time period, but also Giamatti, who's we'll talk

(17:46):
about later. Not the first choice for this movie. Really, yes,
So originally they sought out Tim Allen to play this part.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Okay, I guess that makes sense. You know who I
was going to say before you said Tim Allan, I
was gonna say, and this, I don't know. I don't
know if this would have been like a giant leap
to get him, I would have said Jim Carrey.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Jim Carrey was also in the running. They also considered
Bradley Whitford. If and I just rewatched Oh I Love
Billy Madison last week and I was like thinking about
that in the quarter of my mind. I was like,
he would have been good for this. Joe Pesci, Willem Dafoe,
Peter Green, Alec Baldwin, James Woods, and Peter mc nicol

(18:33):
were all considered for the role.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well, there's a lot of people on that list that
I would not have wanted to see in this movie.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
No, Like, and I've listened to like other podcasts when
they talk about this, like this Trivia fact, and like
Joe peschiy kind of seems like too much of a
late rehash of the whole Home Alone bit. Willem Dafoe
I think would have been just a bit too intense
for this role. Yeah, but like people like Bradley Whitford
and like Alec Baldwin, and I could definitely see James Woods.

(19:02):
Just this just seems too low prout for James Woods
as an actor.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, I don't I don't think he would have done it.
Jim Carrey, I could see Bradley Whitford I could see
and you know what, I probably could see Tim Allen
doing it as well. But I think they nailed it
with Paul Giamatti.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Part of the reason is and so for the the
eighteenth anniversary, I'll be referring back to this a lot.
But Forbes did a great article that sat down with
will find the links in the show notes. But they
sat down with Sean Levy, who made his directorial like big,

(19:41):
big budget debut with this one. Christopher Beck, who has
gone on to do a buttload of movies. He was
the composer on this one. The score. I think we
talked about the music at this movie, and the score
I feel like doesn't really get enough like talk in

(20:05):
the conversation. We talked about that later, but they talked
about the fact in this article they talked about when
they approached him Allan, he was asking for five million
dollars and at that time, Yeah, which is a third
of the budget of this film. Just put it in.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
I can't imagine the budget being I don't know. I
will say this is like kind of like a big
budget movie in my opinion for a for a kids movie.
But it definitely you see where it goes because like
they spend so much of the time like on lots.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
In La Yeah this, But then they were like, oh,
why I know this guy Giamatti, who at the time
was like he was a character actor. So he had
done everything from you know, Truman Show to uh here said,
there's a movie where he played like a Jewish bank robber.
Uh they're odds. He'd you know, done Man on the Moon.

(21:03):
He had done Plant of the Apes, Big Mama's House,
he had done like he just ram me showed up
in a lot of these films and he was great
in those and this was kind of like his big
breakout role. But he agreed to do it for like
one percent of what they were gonna pay to Mallen
and now here here he is like all these years

(21:23):
later and he's like this big notable star that has
gone on to do critical success and I think that
he is the reason why this movie works all these
years later.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Well, and it's this cast is stacked, Like I mean,
and I know that like Frankie Munaz probably like the
big draw for the film, but like the amount of
people in this movie who are like ginormous names now
or they were also like and or they were big
names at the time. This was Sandra O's like teacher phase,

(21:59):
Like she was like the principal in what is it
Princess Diaries, and like I feel like there was like
a period of time where she only played like teachers
and doctors before going on to be like the doctor
on Gray's Anatomy. And then you have like John Cho,
Donald Faison, Taran Killim, which that that surprised the hell

(22:23):
out of me because like I'm a Saturday Night Live
fan and I was looking at this like school bully,
like he looks so familiar, Like why why do I
know that guy? Looked him up? It's Tarren Killum, like insane.
And then I have a fun trivia fact for you,
because I doubt that this is on your trivia fact. No,

(22:43):
no shade to your your trivia, but this is no.
This is the only reason I know this is because
like I went to school for theater arts at Chico
State University and Amanda Detmer, who plays Montage assistant in
this she was like the one actor who had gone

(23:05):
through my theater program in Chico that all of the
teachers would always use as like the example of the
student the graduate that made it in the industry, like, oh,
Amanda's making this, Amanda's doing this, and we've never we've
never actually met, although I do think we were at
a couple of functions together, like alumni things later on.

(23:29):
But yeah, she she went to my school.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
That's cool, and that actually brings me to another fun fact.
But I also just want to throw this out there.
She's one of uh she You know, we talk about
Amanda Binds and Frankie mna Is having an impact on
our childhood, but let it also be told that Amanda Detmer,
not only with this movie, but also Final Destination Destination,

(23:54):
like oh, also had an impact on our generation.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
It's true. Yeah, I And that's and that's it was
so funny. I didn't realize because it's been so long
since I've seen this movie. I knew. I knew since
I graduated school that like she she was in Final Destination,
like I've watched it since then. Like side note, I
usually watch all the Final Destination movies probably like once
every couple of years, and good movies. I know, I know,

(24:24):
And but I didn't realize that that was her in
this and so that was kind of a nice little
surprise upon my rewatch.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
So I want to just kind of go ahead and
get this out of the way, especially that we're recording
this in like six months after the release of Quiet
on a set, and this is bound to come up
in any type of conversation involving any of the early
aughts Nickelodeon shows this movie or Good Burger. Dan Schneider

(24:58):
wrote this movie. How however, I don't see enough people
talking about this, and I am going to give this credit.
So a part of this this oral history, they talk
about the the movie that we know at now, I
will venture to say is not the original way that

(25:20):
they sold this movie, not by long shot. So that
the scene at the end where Big Fat Liar finally
gets made and it's kind of going to the audience,
and it says, you know, written and directed by Monty Kirkham.
The name Kirkham, the last name is actually a thank
you and homage to the two ghost writers on this

(25:41):
film that actually have perfected it the way that we
know today. And a lot of a lot of this.
So the like, I guess that before we start recording,
I know way too much about this movie. So they
they talk about the things originally from what I can

(26:01):
tell from reading articles, doing research, and listening to the
director's commentary on this movie. Originally, this was envisioned to
be two things that basically like, this was a spin
on the Asop's fable of Boy orcrire Wolf kids were
in the prop closet and you had the blue dye

(26:24):
sem Everything else that you see in this movie comes
from the voice of Marty Wolf, the voice of the
Big Fat Liars. We know it comes from two writers
alongside Sean Levy that really fine tune this, and that
would be Kerry Kirkpatrick, who is most known for other

(26:44):
children's films from our childhood, including Over the Hedge, Chicken Run,
James and The Giant Peach, but also John hamm who
would also had written Sorry, John Hamburgh, who had written
also had written Meet the Parents a couple of years
earlier for Universal.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, okay, that that makes a lot of sense. Especially
I have to say I think Chicken Run is like
one of the best like children's movies like ever made.
I absolutely adore Chicken Run, and the humor in it
is fantastic, so that makes sense. I'm also glad you
brought up the Dan Schneider thing because I that wasn't

(27:27):
even a thought in my head until the opening credits
where it was like written and produced by Dan Schneider.
I was like, oh shit, like but also like it
made sense, like I don't know why I didn't think
about that, because of course he he, you know, was
like the guy surrounding like children's programming like at that time,

(27:50):
especially with Nickelodeon, so I should have expected it for sure.
And then Sean Levy was actually a big surprise because
he's such a big name now, like so any of
the actors that it's always funny when you go back
and you see you see directors and writers before they
are like I remember, I don't know if you've seen
the movie Crossroads with Britney Spears, but I will say,

(28:13):
of course it's written by Shonda Rhymes, and it's one
of those ones yep, that's right, and it's every time
I rewatch it, because I have rewatched Crossroads more than once.
You see that opening credit of written by Shonda Rhymes
and think, oh my god, of course it was because
this is where the soap opera began. But yeah, no,

(28:35):
I so I will say I was a little like
oof when I saw his name roll across the screen
because I did watch that documentary and oh god, there's
just so many seedy things that go on in Hollywood
in general that it's still today that it justck.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
It's kind of why I always kind of I liked
sharing that facts with people because it makes me feel
like a portion of my childhood wasn't tainted. Because in
this article they talk about really the voice of Marty
Wolf is really like defined by these two writers.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
I texted you yesterday and I sent you And if
you haven't seen him or you haven't seen him in
a while, I would recommend him. But when you take
the deleted scenes into contexts completely changes the entirety the
tone of Marty Wolf and the way that you see
Wolf as a character. Yeah, he becomes a lot more.

(29:44):
He still has a lot of those like clownish qualities
that we see in the main film, but there's also
this kind of like weird sexualization, almost predator vibe that
he brings to it as well.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, I wonder who wrote that.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
I I think it's a I think that scene is
like a little bit too mature. So it kind of
strikes me as.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
The No, it didn't fit it didn't fit with like
the rest of the movie, like that that would have
been a different version of the movie. I will say,
I feel like of the and I get I get
why they didn't include this either, but because he he
is a very cartoonish villain in this movie, like you
do not have an ounce of sympathy for this man,

(30:27):
like and I don't, And I don't think the goal
is to because there was a deleted scene where he's
kind of talking about how he, you know, came from
like a small town in Indiana or whatever and New
Jersey sorry, New Jersey, Okay, excuse me. And I'm no

(30:49):
shade to Indiana or New Jersey, like I just couldn't remember,
but he and he's talking about like, oh, you don't
know what I've been through and like blah blah blah,
and and I feel like, you know, as somebody who
has worked in the film industry in Los Angeles, that
is a very common thing of you know, people kind
of taking whatever opportunities that they can get, despite who

(31:13):
it might harm in the process, because you got to
look out for number one. And it's a city full
of people who, no joke, are all from Ohio, Like
I don't know what the deal is, but I swear
and I put I put a joke about this in
Meet Me and Loe's Police that literally everybody that I
would meet in LA was from Ohio and I don't know,

(31:36):
I don't know what's going on in Ohio.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, yeah, no. The the I think the deletest scene
is kind of paint the picture in like a new one.
They talked about this in the director's commentary, but there
a lot of the test screens that they were like, we're,
you know, the audience, we're trying to reach our kids,
kids you know, aren't really going to care then, aren't
really going to care about it. But to me, I

(32:02):
would love to see a director's cut of this movie
where all of those scenes are put back in and
this is given a PG thirteen rating. I think now
as like adults that like should be advised to go
back and just give this movie a watch, Like it
would be really fun to kind of see that because
there's a there's a deleted scene here too that if

(32:24):
you don't understand it, then it kind of brings more
contacts to a couple of things that are in the film.
So when they first when Jason and Kaylee first get
to Universal, they stumble into Mary's Wolf's office and you
see these like these giant framed posters and they are

(32:45):
of three movies, Loose Lips, Dial, The Dine To and
Sloppy Millions, and they're like one hundred million dollars, which
by today's standard doesn't really mean a whole lot, but
in two thousand and two, it was like it was
a big deal. And you know, so you see those
and like you see them during like the meetings that

(33:06):
he has, and there's like no real contexts for those.
And then at the end where everyone turns away from
him after he's been found out to steal the story,
he goes he refers to himself as the human Hit Factory,
and that is a callback to a deleted scene between
him and Russell Hornsby's President of the Studio character where

(33:33):
he talks about being the first writer slash producer before
the age of I Think thirty to hit have three
consecutive hits in a row that hit one hundred million dollars,
and that he was dubbed by Hollywood as the human
hit Factory and he's been on this like slow decline,

(33:55):
So that context really brings a lot to kind of
not really who Marty wolf Has is within this world,
but also some of the contexts that is, you know,
first meeting between him and Jason. You know, oh man,
you've made some real stinkers lately, Like all of these
like little callbacks. I think some of the deleted scenes
are are are worth checking out just because they really

(34:18):
do add some more contexts that the film kind of
just leaves in and just kind of like Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, I agree. I think because you could tell with
each deleted scene, like where it was cut from, like
very easily in the movie, because we still in the
movie like what stayed was still like pieces up that
it was just like you know, a minute or so
on either end that like maybe got cut, and so
I do understand why they made the cuts, but it

(34:49):
is interesting to always sort of see where it started
and like how that informed what the final product was.
Then I do think we might have had a different
version or a different idea of who Marty Woolf is
if some of those had stayed in. But I understand

(35:10):
also not wanting to humanize him like I especially at
this time, I feel like a lot of the the
bad guy characters, especially in kids movies, are very one note,
Like it's very much just like this is the big bad.
Here are his henchmen, and you know he's all bad.

(35:32):
Who cares what happens to him? And that's fine, Like
I don't mind that every now and then, especially in
a kid's movie. I think we've definitely come a long
way since then in terms of like kind of creating
like the more mean bully characters. But yeah, this is
this is a wild ride.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
But I was.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
When I finished watching it, my first thing that I
thought of was, I can't believe this entire movie is
about him proving to his dad that he wasn't lying,
Like I think it's just so outrageous when you think about,
like how the lengths that this kid will go to,
I mean, flying across the country already, like ridiculous. And

(36:14):
then the fact that all these people in Hollywood are
willing to help him like just like that, and they're
they're living on the Universal Studios lot. Which fun fact,
my one of my best friends is a tour guide
on that tram tour and I was watching it and
I sent I sent her a message to tell her

(36:35):
about it, and she's like you don't see any of
that on the tram tour, Like, that's not that's not
even what you see. And although the one thing I
did recognize was the street, the cobblestone street that you
run up that floods with water, that is in fact
still on the tram tour.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Here is a crazy fact about this has like nothing
to do with the movie, but rather the actor Lester
that so Michael Frawman who plays him, his that character
Lester that initiates that flood scene at one point apparently
dated Christina Ricci.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Well, sure, why not?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
I just that I learned that. I was like, this
kind of breaks my brain. I'm going to find some
way to opseil that into the conversation.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, I think that's fine. There there were so many
people that, you know, if they were going to leave
any scenes in that, I feel like I would have enjoyed.
I sort of wanted to see more of the people
that join forces with Frankie Munez and Amanda Bynes, Like
they would just kind of pop up, like at the
end during the planning stages of taking him down, and

(37:46):
I was like, who is this am I supposed to
know who this guy is? Like did We passed him
once earlier and.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
That was it. Yeah. So the the guy that you
are mainly talking about is Leo the secure reguard. Yes,
and Leo has like these like really great scenes like
during that at that sequence where he's like trying to
come in that were cut. There's a great alternative, uh

(38:14):
alternative ending for this film where he's getting ready to
like go back to New Jersey and so like he's
picking up his stuff and like him and Marty have
like a great like one off and there there also
was like another so just like to put it in context,
like there's a lot like throughout the surveillance phase of

(38:34):
this film, you how to get to really see like
how Marty Wolf is like just belittling all of these people,
and a lot of it is you know, a lot
of it is like uh, you know, being agists against
the stunt coordinator being just rude somewhat where racist, to

(38:56):
the John Show character, know, body shaming the VP of marketing.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
There's a lot of Yeah, throughout the movie, like there's
it's definitely of its time, like some of the words
and stuff that they throw around where I'm like, oh,
couldn't make that now.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, and so like I also just like want to
give out credit because I think I think this movie
did him dirty. But Sean O'Brien plays Leo in this movie,
and he's got some of my favorite scenos. But he
like at the end, like he just kind of shows
up and you're just kind of like when he's like
taking notes, wil Amanda Binds is talking and he's just
like it's like super intense and this like little Paty,
You're like, dude, what do you have against him? And

(39:39):
there's there's one scene that I don't know if you
remember this, but there is, and we'll we'll clip it
right here as well, so maybe it'll unlock some nostalgia
for listeners. But there's a one of the the advertisements
that they have for this movie that's not either in
the movie nor the deleted scene was Marty trying to

(40:02):
leave after the meeting and he like like goes up
to Leo and like honks the horn and says something
like really rude to him. And that memory has like
lived with me since the first time I saw the
trailer for this movie. And again, I'll just put it
out there. They did Sean O'Brien really dirty. In this movie.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think they do a great job
of making it clear why. You know, obviously Monty has
issues with him, although there are better ones amplified in
the in the deleted scenes. I think, obviously, and it
doesn't have to be like a huge thing like I
think Frank Jackson, that's the Donald Faison character. I think

(40:48):
his is like perfect where it's like, oh, I gave
the guy a ride in my limo ones and gave
it my my headshot, and he like circulated it around
and like blacklisted me. I was like, that's all reason
I need. I think the fat shaming perfectly got it.
The telling John Show the director character like how to

(41:08):
do his job better. I can see that being enough,
like I would have liked maybe like a few more pockets.
But at the same time, I think it was also
clear that even if we didn't see why exactly these
people hated him, he gave us plenty of reasons throughout
the movie to hate him that it made it believable
if they did.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
One of the things that I one of one of
my favorite scenes to that point is the scene where
there's Jason and Kaylee are still They're still like monitoring everything,
and they're watching the big stunt that's being performed by
Vince and you know, he goes up and he's like, hey,
what do you think, and like Marty just goes off

(41:50):
on him and he's just being extremely rude, agist and
just essentially like you just kind of see this like
look of disgust between Jason named Kaylee and it's like
you're only seeing this guy for a few hours, Like
these people have been working with him for couple years,
for years and months, you know, and so you as

(42:12):
an audience like you're like, oh, yeah, like I get that.
But let's you know, kind of talking switching gears to
talk about just Marty Wolf as a character, but Paul
Giomardi in this role. There's an interview that he did
last year when he was like doing this the circuit
for the Oscars and the for the Holdovers, which is

(42:35):
a great movie if you haven't seen it, But he
got asked, you know, out of his entire body of work,
what is the most iconic role that people still talk
to you about? And it's this movie?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
I mean yeah, like I and I think for many reasons,
because especially if you're talking to like millennials who I
would venture that a lot of us saw this because
this this also came out at a time where we
didn't have Netflix. We didn't have you couldn't watch movies
at home like TV. Channels were also very limited, and

(43:11):
so it was that if you wanted to see a movie,
you went to the movie theater and you saw it.
And there is something very memorable about a man in
the by the way, worst facial hair ever, like like
I telling nothing, nothing turns me off faster than some
chin pubes, Like it's just bad and so like, but

(43:33):
then he's blue and turn and has reddish orange hair.
Like that alone, I think everybody has that image just
emblazoned on their brain. Like you might not even remember
any of the rest of the movie, but you just
remember that picture. And I think that alone actually like
says something is you know, years and years later, we're

(43:54):
all pictureing this this blue man just yelling.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
He talked about in that interview like yeah, he's like,
it's it's this one film that I've had that It's
just it's generational. So you have, you know, the kids
that grew up on it having kids and maybe like
the kids that had parents that watched it. With them,
and so now they're grandparents and they're showing it to
their grandkids, and so you have this cycle of just
thaying and they're just like, oh, it's the Blue Man,

(44:20):
and it's like it is and he uh so in
that in that oral history they talked about originally thees
like the look of Marty Wolf was just all Paul Giammatty.
It's all it's all the branch of Paul Giammatty. And
originally when he like aproached it and you see it
like kind of in the film, but originally he wanted

(44:43):
to have a goatee. That was like the thing that
he wanted and the studio was like no, and the
what the the facial hair that you see in the
movie was kind of that compromise because he does he
just looks really sleazy in this and you I want.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
To know why they were anti goatee, Like, I don't
like what what's he put it this way, he would
have been a not as awful person if he had
had the go tea like that. What he ended up
with was even worse.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
So I will say this, so the the this is
my theory is that the when you're you have the
scene where you have everyone brought together and they're like
kind of going through this is what the phase is
going to be, this is this is whose respective team.
You have that picture of Marty on h the computer,

(45:33):
that's what I imagine they originally like, that was this
original screen test for him, and it looks like a
completely kind of different character. Where again, it goes back
to the idea of having Marty kind of almost be
like a sexual predator. That's what he kind of looks
like with that, Whereas if you have the chin strap
he or the chin pubes as you say, he just

(45:56):
looks very cartoonish and he just looks very goofy, and
I think I think for the tone of the movie
it works a lot better.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, there's there's a very specific kind of man that
wears like that. I thought, And if you don't know
what I'm talking about, like, just go look up a
picture of him in this movie and you'll know. You will.
Let the ladies especially will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, there's like but like Giamadi, Like again, I go
back to that his performance in This Is is what
makes this movie. It's the reason that so Yeah, and
it's it's Sean Levy talked about this in that World
History where he talks about this movie is like an
outlier in the rest of his body of work. When

(46:45):
you think about this, like it's it's because he was
doing like, you know, prestigious dramas and like some comedies,
but not quite to this extent before Big Fat Liar,
and then after a Big Fat Liar, like, I mean,
he went on to go do side ways, John Adams,
The Holdovers, Lady in the Water, thirty Coins. I mean,
he's done a number of other roles, but nothing is

(47:10):
quite comical or slapsticky or as physically inducing as Marty
a Wolf.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
No, And I don't really understand why, like because he's
so he's so good at it, and I and I
understand like maybe not wanting to get cornered into that
as well, like because I think that's that is a
real thing, especially in comedy. I think it's a lot
easier to like do a comedy when that's not your

(47:39):
usual shtick. I think it's a lot harder for people
to take you seriously breaking out of comedy. And so
I can see where maybe I don't know, maybe that
was the reason, but he's so good. And I think
for me, the physical comedy that he's the best at
is using his eyes, and especially when he's being a
bit yeah, especially when he's painted blue, Like you're relying

(48:05):
so like his eyes like glow of his body, and
so you're relying so much on like reading his emotions
and everything through his eyes and eyebrows. And I think
I think he nailed it. I think you could you
somebody else could have just relied on looking goofy, being blue,

(48:26):
having orange hair, and like that's the comedy on its own.
I think he leaned into actually having fun with it.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
I think too. There, Yeah, there's like he he loses
himself in this and a part of it. When you
think of physical comedy, I think you think of, you know,
people like Chris Farley or Adam Sandler that are just
over the top with stuff, and then you head into
a role like Marty Wolf, where he's very expressive with

(48:56):
his eyes and his facial structures, and you know, when
he first finds the paper, you kind of see his
eyebrows kind of do this like almost like wavy thing,
and it's it really works for him. And then you
kind of also like after he's like, you know blue,
he like it doesn't get talked about it enough, but
you have that like Macaulay Culkin like you know, facial

(49:17):
likely Oh my god. But his like realization of acceptance
before that is I think just also adds to the
comedy of that sequence. And then also the the the
sequence at the end where he's at the party and
he's allowing his like interactions with like Marcus and trying

(49:41):
to sell him on like green lighting big fat liar.
Then also like trying to sell this entire room of
like this this big bogus lie about why he's blue
and orange, and like that scene and like the physical
coality that he brings to it I think is just
pure genius.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
And I have to say the vocal range a he's
so very impressive because we see him do you know,
just the cartoonish yelling at the sky. But he's also
he knows how to nail like just like the monotone
you know comedy. He I even like at the very
end when they're on the roof and he's doing that
never ever ever, ever ever ever like I he really does.

(50:22):
He uses all parts of his body, which I mean
as somebody who trained in theater. That is very much
something that you are taught is how to use all
pieces of your body. It's all part of your your
actor's toolbox. As Yeah, Professor Bill used to say.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
That scene on the rooftop too, the never ever ever
with like with mister funny Bones and Jason, and there's
there's something that's like really comical, and you're like, it's
a strong reminder that though this guy's been a piece
of dooky to everyone, he's just been really short. Like
at the end of the day, he's this really comical

(51:01):
kid's character. And I think the fact that you know,
he responds with that just kind of going like that, yeah,
you know, and he's got like the cross eyed like
he's just got that physicality to him as we've been
talking about. I think it just goes back.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
To something for all ages.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Yeah, yeah, And that's that's part of the reason I
think that this this movie has endured as long as
it is, and that it is a cult classic, not
necessarily just for our generation, but for generations to come
that'll discover this movie.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I it's such a side note, but like, what was
the deal with every movie and show in the late
nineties early two thousands having a frickin' monkey in it,
Like and I know that the monkey's not real in
this one, like it's his doll, but I'm sorry. Like
there was a period of time where there were just
like these monkeys, chimpan It was usually chimpanzees or capuchin

(51:57):
monkeys just like popping up in every show, our movie.
Like I've been a diehard Friends fan, like my entire life,
and I will like skip episodes with Ross and his
stupid monkey on the show, like it just I just don't.
I feel like I feel like there was a period
of time where producers were just sitting in a room

(52:17):
and they're like, you know what, it's not looking good
for this movie, Like I don't know, like what we're
gonna do to like make this better. And somebody is
just in all of those rooms saying, let's put a
monkey in it. Let's add a monkey. And it's the
same guy just going around to like every every production
office and suggesting that there'd be a monkey.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
So the crazy thing is is that in this movie
in particular, there never was a notion of actually having
the monkey be here. They and again, like mister Fuddy
Bones is like one of the weirder films elements of
this film, especially before, like the iconic pool scene, like

(53:02):
he's he wakes up next to Marty and uh, it's
just it's just such a really weird thing. But it
came about because of the John Hamburg rewrites and they
had kind of talked about so they talked about it
in this uh in this oral history where they were

(53:23):
looking for something to kind of humanize him, to not
be a total asshole, which okay, understandable, but they randomly
like came across this this doll mister Funny Bones on
like either a yard sale or eBay and.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
That sounds about like either way that.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
They saw that they were like, this is it. This
is this has been the big thing because at the
time they they weren't happy with the third act of
this film, and so once they had bought the Funny Bones,
which again is one of a kind, currently sits in
the office of Sean Leavy now and yeah, anytime that

(54:06):
he does like meetings or something like that, this this
is the movie that he always shows during meetings and
mister Funny Bones is like always the thing that people
want to see. But the the crazy thing is is
that they only had one. So the scene where they're
having that face off and the end and he goes

(54:28):
up in the air like they were like holding their
breath that like when he hits the ground, it doesn't
break because there was one a break.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
That's so funny, like and you know what, like it
does it does make sense to use that in the
final act of like because why else would he chase
them like he already has, Like the entire movie is
about Frankie Munez chasing Marty to like try to get
him to give him what he wants. So it's a

(55:01):
nice way to kind of reverse that of Okay, well
now I've got something that you want, Like I want
my story and my credit. You want your monkey that
you sleep with.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Yeah. Yeah, it's such a weird element, and you're right,
Like I hadn't considered that because there a year before
this movie was released, there was a Brendan Fraser movie
came out called Monkey Bone, and it was like all
about like him being a either it's either an animator
it's been a while, or a comic book writer, but
he like essentially like has an animated monkey that just

(55:36):
follows him around for the entirety of the movie, and
like it was just a big thing and that like
the late nineties early oughts, and it's just kind of
like kind of does seem like it's a weird thing
to have.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I mean, honestly, they're making a movie in this movie
about a man and like his crime fighting chicken, and
I was like, that could have very well been a monkey,
and they were like, you know what, we already have
one monkey in this movie. We need to pick a
different animal. Like it just or maybe it's an allusion
to chicken run. I don't know because of like one
of the writers. So I just there's something about a

(56:14):
bunch of monkeys in movies at that time. I swear
now that you've heard it, and now that everybody listening
has heard it, you will start to notice it in
like every everything you watch from like late nineties, early
two thousands.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Not quite late nineties. But another great example would beat
Umanji with the stampede scene and like also the younger
brother becoming a monkey. If you were someone you know
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(56:52):
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(57:13):
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(57:36):
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(57:56):
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(58:17):
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Speaker 2 (58:24):
Oh yeah, that's right, Like there you go, hybrid boy
and monkey become one.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
I I also want to talk about the the some
of the some of the stranger elements in this movie
that are like just really weird sequences, but they live
in my head. Rent Free are two sequences, the first
one being Roody, the the boyfriend of the Jason's sister.

(58:57):
This movie, it's one scene, but he makes count yeah ye.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Never see again. Oh and I already know, so okay,
I know where your second one is going to be.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
I feel like, uh yeah, go ahead, go ahead and
hit it.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Is it about Taran Killam and the grandmother?

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah? Yeah, absolutely? And the fact that, like the introduction
to Grandma Pearl is, who's there, I've got a gun
is one of the best introductions to any character in
any movie.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
I could not like if you had told me to
tell you the plot of Big Fat Liar after not
watching it in you know, almost twenty years, I feel
like I would have been able to get through a
good amount of it. I could not have told you
about Taran Killem and the Grandmother like that, could not

(59:51):
have remembered that at all. And I'm watching this thinking
like was this always a good movie? Like did they
add this back in later? Like what is the deal?
And and we I kind of love that we get
to see them a few times, like there's like him
and Grandma, and then at one point she's like, oh,
I need to check in with them, see how it's going.

(01:00:14):
And he's like getting Grandma to like pump Iron, which
I thought was hilarious. And then again they're kind of
forgotten until the very end when they're at the movie
premiere together, and I'm like thinking, this is a little odd.
I don't know if they're like gym buddies or they're dating.
Now I know this is like what's going on with

(01:00:34):
this guy and the grandmother? So that was an interesting
surprise for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Yeah, it's also too I would you like care to
take the grand the actress that plays Grandma Pearl? Would
you like to know her name? One word? Sure?

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
One word?

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
One word? Her stage name Sparkle.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
That's her entire name, Sparkle.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
That Sparkle, that is that is the name that she
she has gone on by.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I mean, you know, I guess if you're gonna choose
like a one name Moniker, that's a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Yeah. There's it's like there's just these like really weird
like this movie is like full of like these like
little nugget moments like the ones we've talked about. But like,
I think another one worth mentioning and I will kind
of do a rest and peace section here is so
this movie is lost Sparkle, a couple of actors that

(01:01:38):
are no longer with us. This also was Andre Rosie
Brown's last film appearance, and he plays like he's the
security guard that come comes in when Marty kicks Jason
out the first time. He's the he's the big, big
buff dude. And then also and I'm it's kind of

(01:02:00):
sad and like shocked by this one. But uh, Brian Turk,
who in this movie plays the Masher, died five years ago.
He's kind of actually young. He was forty nine really yeah,
but yeah, he he has like one of the most
iconic scenes in this one, and I should also mention

(01:02:21):
that it clashes with the other iconic scene of of
yours blue boy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah, and I he I did recognize him, like he
was another one that I recognized from like I don't know,
probably one of those guys who popped up in like
everything in the nineties. But that's interesting. Yeah, No, I
did recognize that, And I do love I do love that.

(01:02:49):
That to me, that is probably like the best plant
and payoff in the movie is the whole thing with
like their interaction first at the at the stock sign
and then the very end like credit scene where he
shows up at Mashers kid's birthday, Like I thought that

(01:03:11):
was like that's the perfect example of like a good
play and payoff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
This movie is full of plants and payoffs. For one,
where you kind of get to see the surveillance and
then you have the like the official like phase four takeoff,
you get to see every one of those kind of
come to fruition. One of the best moments is like
Amy Hill's character is fat shamed during the initial kind
of planning processes for like how they're gonna market big

(01:03:39):
Fat Liar, and at the end you got you get
that really sweet shot of like her like eating the
twein kiss the great callback, but the the pass or
callback actually wasn't even originally in the film. So when
they when they did test audiences, the original ending for
this film was gonna close off at the theater with

(01:03:59):
the premiere of the Universe bfl which a fine yeah,
but people were like, we want to see where Marty
ended up, Yeah, and kind of see him kind of
play the clown, which I thought was a to me,
is is a very goofy payoff, but also the same
type like you got that, you get that great call

(01:04:21):
back to Masure.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
It's a classic like I for me, I always think
of that final and it's in the credits of Ferris
Bueller's Day Off where it's the principle like having to
walk home and he gets on the old less and
everybody's like staring at him like it's it's the perfect
It's like peak humiliation, like right here, and so you

(01:04:45):
get to see them literally fall to their lowest of lows,
and Yeah, there is something satisfying about that. Like obviously
I don't wish harm on people in general, but there
is something super satisfying about watching what happens to him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
I yeah, I with Marty Wolf in particular. I'm curious
if if maybe I'm reading into this movie giving it
too much credit. But the first so there are three
key sequences when we first meet him. The first one
and maybe it was the fashion of the time, I
don't know, but the first time we meet him in
the limo, he's got player of these like really just

(01:05:27):
dark blue sunglasses of the time. But when we see
him again on the set of Whittaker and Foul, he
goes through this like blue tint And then you have
that moment with him and Vince on the lot after
this stunt where he shows him the invitation to the
birthday party. Di is this movie? Am I reading too

(01:05:48):
much into it? Or is that just really good foreshadowing
for what will inevitably happen to him later.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
I mean, I guess whatever it is accomplish they got
you thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
I feel like I've probably given this film a little
bit too much credit, as as my co host over
Biscazing would would say, But yeah, I don't know. I
was just like thinking about that. It was like interesting,
like choices that they have with like Marty the first
like two or three times you see him in the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Yeah, it is it is interesting, Like I think when
I think about this movie, like full picture. What's interesting
to me is that, like you know, at the time,
Frankie Munez was like a big draw. You don't hear
much about him now. Amanda Bines was kind of like
just launching her career. She had a great career and

(01:06:43):
then sort of just disappeared into the ether. And then
Paul Giamatti was relatively new and had this great comedic
role and then never really did comedy after that. There's
several people who had like peak careers in the nineties
and this was probably closer to the end of their career.

(01:07:04):
So I mean, it's it really is interesting. Like it's
I think you said it earlier. It's like a good
like snapshot from the vault where it's it's like this
captured moment in time where I don't think you would
make this movie now. I don't think you would be
able to attract the kind of star power that this
movie did at the time. I don't know like that

(01:07:26):
it's a really interesting movie because it's one of those
ones where I'm like, I want like the behind the
scenes story on like all the people in this movie
and and how they got here and where they went
from here, because it really just does seem like something
that is so unique unto itself and that you won't
see again.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
It's yeah, so it's crazy to think about, like because
I have the cast list pulled up right now, and
like so like Frankie Minaz like went on to do
a couple more movies and then eventually kind of stepped
back from acting. Now does race Car Driving? So well,
that's right, I forgot. Yeah, you know, Amanda Bynes is
like the one person in this movie that like I'm

(01:08:09):
holding out hope for not only for her mental health,
but also for like I want to read her tell all,
like I want that that Janine not gal Uh love
her too. Yeah, I'm trying to say that, you know.
I think Jane Jeanette McLain, Jeanett McCain, like I'm I'm

(01:08:30):
I am now Jeanette McLean is one person that I
work with which I now have to edit that out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Isn't it the one that's like, I I hate you mom?
Or no, am I thinking of the wrong one?

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Jeanette McCurdy, I'm glad my mom died, Like I I
want that treatment for her story, you know, And so
like there's there's a bit of like, I'm glad that
she wasn't involved with uh the quiet on the set.
I'm glad that she kind of you know, is doing
things that make her happy to where like, you know,
she went through a really rough passion of mental health,

(01:09:07):
but now she is, you know, she's becoming a nail
tech and she's like went back to like cosmetology school,
and she's like the one like actor actress that like
I grew up with that, Like I don't attach myself
to people's personal lives, but this is the one actor,
actress or entertainer period that I'm like really holding out

(01:09:28):
hope for their mental health.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Yeah, oh for sure, for sure. Yeah. And I think
that's so And I know that that ties back into
the podcast. I know that that ties back into the podcast.
I think the the amount of child stars that we
have seen have issues like not you sometimes during but

(01:09:53):
we didn't know at the time obviously as you know
seen with like the whole documentary on Dan Schneider, but
I so many times they fall into addiction or you know, depression,
like so many things that I just think could have
been avoided if there were a lot more like protective

(01:10:14):
measures in place and actually I really, I really do
admire that there are so many child like former child
stars who actually speak out against how they don't think
like children at all should like be making movies and
TV shows now. And I find their opinions very valid
and very interesting to listen to because they're speaking from
experience and it is a very steady industry in general,

(01:10:41):
and to bring kids into that, I think is is
I don't know. I don't want to say like more
harmful than not, because like I don't have anything to
like necessarily back that up, but I think it can
be and yeah, I don't know, and I think there's
a reason why we see a lot of child former
child stars that don't act anymore or who have removed

(01:11:03):
themselves from that industry.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
So there's a great like documentary that I always recommend
to people on the flip side of quite on the
set that talks. It's called The Orange Ears and it's
available to stream most platforms. But it's a great look
into the early years of Nickelodeon particularly and like how
revolutionary it was to where you know, they were creating

(01:11:29):
content that was for them and then I think somewhere
along the ways from like the early days of Nickelodeon,
you know figured out hey dude, Pete and Pete. I
think a lot of that. Once you kind of get
into the Schneider era of all that, then it kind
of becomes this toxic place that we now see and

(01:11:51):
we hear all of these stories about and you know,
there have been child actress that we grew up on
that Christi Kossa Romana with Vulnerable has given people a
great platform. That's a great that is that is a
great podcast to listen to in terms of like child
stardom and mental health. Alison Stoner now has kind of

(01:12:11):
left oh that that area and like now has gotten
into politics to like put actual laws into place when
you're talking about child actors, and it's not just about
like let's get behind a mic and talk about how
fucked up we are, but it's like, let's go out,
let's do action.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Let's actually make change. Yeah. No. I In fact that
both of them are two people that in the last
couple of years I have started to follow their their
activism journeys and listen to their podcast, and I God,
I love that they're actually taking initiative and and I
think we're seeing this across a lot of areas of entertainment.

(01:12:48):
Like I'm a big reality television fan. I do very
much enjoy it. I used to work in reality TV. However,
I know that there are a lot of issues there,
and I have been really appreciative that so many people
have started calling out in the last year or so,
like one from the talent themselves, how poorly they're treated

(01:13:12):
behind the scenes. And I'm specifically thinking of a few
people from Love as Blind who have talked about how
you know, they they're not They're not allowed to eat,
they're not allowed to sleep, they're constantly fed alcohol. And
I'm seeing them actually starting to try to unionize for
unscripted talent, which I think is a great idea. And

(01:13:34):
then two, you're seeing a lot of fans who have
loved these shows for years and years and years say, well,
wait a second, we watch this show because we want
to see two people fall in love, Like there's a
whole reason this show exists to watch people fall in love.
And you're casting people who are already in relationships. You're
casting people who have series or who have a history

(01:13:57):
of abuse, or you know, whatever it might be, like,
are you doing this purposely to like bring about more
drama because that recks people's mental health and causes more trauma.
And so it's I really do like that we're in
a time where a lot of people are watching things
happen in real time, whether it's scripted or unscripted, and

(01:14:21):
they're not just accepting it as well, that's just part
of the industry or like, oh, well that's just if
you want to be a star, you just gotta do this.
Like I think there's enough people now to say no,
that things have to change because of it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Yeah, this movie, you know, in looking at Big Fat
Liar and a lot of the the mannerisms of Marty
Wolf in a post me Too movement is a really
fascinating look. Because we now have social media, paparazzi is
readily available, Like it's almost kind of like your every
move is captured, your every word is remembered and held

(01:14:59):
onto And you know, I think that there needs to
be more things put into place that would be better
provisions for children, you know, and especially the fact that,
like you know, we learn how little provisions there actually

(01:15:23):
were in quite on the set documentary, the sheer fact
that you know, Brian Peck, a convicted edophile, like went
from working on like Nickelodeon served less than a year.
I think he only served a few months, I think,
and then like got hired at Disney, Like is that
shit to me to think about? And it's like, dude,

(01:15:46):
like why are we not putting provisions in here? And
you know, sometimes you have success stories like Frankie Munis,
Like Frankie like, you know, kind of really reinvent to
himself after this, Like, yes, he's done a couple of
movies here and there. He did a horror movie in
twenty eighteen and called The Black Phone. He did one

(01:16:08):
of the Shark Nado sequels. But for the most part,
like he's been focusing on being a father, he's been
focusing on being a race car driver. And I think
he's one of those rare cases. And then you also
have cases like Lindsay Lohan's a great example where you know,
she was at the peak of her career with you know,

(01:16:28):
mean girls, and you know herbie fully loaded and then
kind of like really started going to this party girl
phase and battle drugs and you know, now to kind
of see where she's at is like man, like, sobriety
is possible, like getting on the other side of all
of this stuff, it's one possible.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
I always think of Drew Barrymore too, Like to me,
Barrymore is like one of the She's probably for me,
my earliest example of child star turned you know, quote
unquote bad girl like you know, at least by the media,
and then coming out of it, reinventing her career and

(01:17:10):
now you know, having this super different outlook on life,
super positive, you know, having conversations about that and not
shying away from them, having her platform, which I think
she uses pretty well. And I but you're right, it
is a rarity. Like I really do think that those
are the exceptions that that's not usually what how how

(01:17:32):
things end up for each other. Keenan, actually, I think
is another great example because he kind of stuck with
comedy and you know, followed it into Saturday Night Live.
But it doesn't it doesn't happen for enough people and
and we I mean, honestly, what it all boils down
to is we have to stop treating people like a commodity,

(01:17:52):
like especially when they're children, like they're they're people. They're
not they're not just moneymakers like and they and they
deserve to be treated as as what they are, which
is children.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
I think I think we kind of a lot of
this conversation started with the release of I'm Glad My
Mom died. You know, a lot the Jeanette McCurdy tell
all was kind of like really terrible. I mean it was,
it was really heartbreaking to read. I remember like I
would be in bed and like Erica would be you know,

(01:18:27):
reading or scrolling on TikTok, and I would just be like,
h like I like was audibly like sighing and like
being angry why I was reading it, because like, man,
like this, this is a child that is now supporting
their entire family and you know, being being a being
a horror guy. Uh. And and I maybe maybe saying

(01:18:50):
this wrong or maybe like mismembering, but I think Daniel
Harris is like another uh one that gets brought up
in that one. And if you guys don't know who
that is, Daniel Harris is like, uh, she was Jimmie
Lloyd from Halloween four and five, but she also was
in Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead. She was strange Land.

(01:19:11):
She's done a lot of like horror in the nineties
and just kind of popped up variously, but Like also
has talked about the accounts of like having to essentially
support her family through being a child star see you know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Her through Horror, I Know her through which, by the way,
I think you should watch as part of your revisiting
movies from the nineties and two thousands. She's from the
classic Wish Upon a Star, which she is. Oh my god,
talk about another another blast from the past, which, by
the way, you can watch the whole thing of on

(01:19:47):
I forget if it's Disney Plus or if I just
watched it on YouTube one night, but oh god, so good,
such a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Pretty sure it's also on Uh, it's also on Disney
if I are not like to be Amazon like it's
it's probably one of the one of the d coms
that are just like readily available at a moment's notice.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Yeah, so good. It's one of those ones that I
want to say, it was like a Disney Channel movie,
and it's one of those ones where they were it
was when they were still making Disney Channel movies that
were like I don't want to say sexy, but like
like they were a little more like PG to PG
thirteen than like G rated it was a very fine time.

(01:20:32):
Like there were only a few of them, but that
was one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I do remember that one. I'm
trying to think about where to go.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
From here, not to derail your entire conversation about child
stars being exploited by their families.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
There is there's another note like of mental health, Like
I do want to hit on here the scene where
you kind of have the fish Islands and he's like
going through school and they're talking about the semi colon,
history of the semi colon. You laugh, But like in
the world of mental health, like the semi colon, and
there's an organization called Project Semicolon. Okay, the semi colon.

(01:21:16):
In terms of mental health, it is a symbol for
essentially the act of one continuing their lives. And so
just to kind of put it into perspective, there are
so according to the most recent information that's like readily

(01:21:38):
available for suicide statistics was from twenty twenty two, so
there are forty eight and seventy six suicides that take place.
It took place that year, and typically the average typically
the statistic goes that for every one suicide that occurs,

(01:21:58):
there are twenty five more or that are being attempted.
So the idea of the semi colon is essentially this
idea of acknowledging the hardships but understanding that life a
is worth living and it's worth holding on suits. So
they're in twenty twenty two, there are roughly an estimation
of one point six million suicides that were attempted.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
Too many, too many friends. Yeah, I am familiar, though
I didn't know where you were going with semi colon,
but I am. I am familiar with that. I have
many of friends who have that tattooed on their body,
and so yeah, it's something that I think that's how
I first Oh, I love that version. I think that

(01:22:46):
was kind of my first introduction to to what to
the meaning behind that. And I think it's very beautiful.
I think it's a very beautiful symbol to have because
especially speaking to somebody as a right like that, the
semi colon is is something that we even struggle with
kind of like finding the meaning in in like the

(01:23:07):
words that we write and the things that we create.
So at least I know I do, and and I
think it's a great it's a great notion of like
there is more to this idea. There is more to come,
so long as you know we write it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Yeah, and that's that's again, that's just a you know,
it's just a big urge to anyone listening or if
you're on Patreon you're watching, to stay with us. I mean,
you know, I talk about that, you know, we're kicking
this series off about the impact and the gratitude of
you know, giving thanks and how that has an impact

(01:23:45):
on your mental health and how it kind of changes
the outlook on certain things. And the idea of the
semi colon is to keep going. And so for me
to talk about this movie is like, this movie's been
a big comfort film for me. Here it sounds weird
to say that, but like this movie like it's maybe

(01:24:05):
laugh and just kind of go back to a simpler time.
And I'm also grateful for friends like Kelly that you know,
challenge me to grow past you know what, I passed
my own conventions, in my own thoughts and kind of
to you know, challenge my way of thinking. Plus you're
just really cool. So there's that, Oh, I mean, duh.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
But also no, I think it's so I think it's
so important to find the good feels in whatever it
is that that gives you that feeling. I mean, for me,
sometimes it is like a rewatch of something. I tend
to rewatch a lot of things that I've seen before
because I know, I know how it's going to turn out.
And that's kind of why I also love romance novels

(01:24:50):
is regardless of what's going on, you know it's going
to end with a happy ending. So there is like
a certain satisfaction that comes with kind of reading or
watching something that you've you've seen several times over you
know how it's going to go. Maybe it's a little frivolous,
maybe it's a little silly, but I think we could

(01:25:11):
all use a little bit more of that in our
lives too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Yeah, And it's this idea of like prioritizing your mental
health as well, you know, prioritizing that the steps that
are going to bring you into healthy mental health, but
also at the same time making sure that you're surrounding
yourself with people that are also going to encourage that
mental health journey. And also, you know, I bring up

(01:25:37):
challenge earlier with like you know, Kelly, and the idea
to have people that are going to challenge you to
grow is also very key. And you know, sometimes those
journeys include pouring salt in the wound. Sometimes they include tears,
sometimes they include laughter at the end of the day,
like whatever needs to happen for you to stay with us.

(01:26:00):
Those are the steps that I would encourage anyone to take.
Because you know, we talked about child actors earlier, and
I was going to bring this up during that, but
you know, I think child actors, their circumstances of their
lives that turn them to things like drugs and alcohol,
you know, are way worse than I think a lot
of us I would say, I would say are worst,

(01:26:23):
because I definitely there are definitely worse situations. But when
you amplify that in the public eye, like there's a
lot of shit that goes on there, but to see
success stories like Frankie and Lindsey come out on the
other hand of that, or Keenan as we talked about, like,
it is this. It is this battle of choosing to continue.

(01:26:45):
It is this act of saying, all right, I'm going
to get up today and go to work, or I'm
going to go out and do something social, or you know,
watch a movie that I haven't seen since I was
a kid or whatever, whatever the case is, you know,
finding those practices and this people that are going to
challenge you to grow, keep you accountable to grow, and

(01:27:07):
also at the same time encourage that growth.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
Yeah. No, that's so important, whether it's friends or you know,
romantic relationships or your teachers. And I know, I know,
like I'm very thankful that I've I've been I've been
very privileged to have a fantastic support system from like
the moment that I was born, Like I'm an only

(01:27:32):
my parents. I talk to you every day. We have
a great relationship. But I also recognize that that's not
the situation that everybody has, and it's not fair, Like
I mean, I think that's the thing too, is you
can easily admit like it's not fair. You should you
should naturally have people there to support you, to lift

(01:27:52):
you up when you are down to you know, challenge you,
like you've said to you know, make sure that you're okay,
and send you a text message every day. But unfortunately,
sometimes we have to create those those relationships ourselves, Like
we have to go out and find that. And and
I wish I could say that that was just kind

(01:28:12):
of everybody's you know, natural inclination is to like be
good and and you know, check on the people in
their lives, but it's it's not and so it's so
important to create to surround yourself with people that will
will be there for you and you can be there
for them in the same way.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
If I can quote from another early aughts comedy and
another episode that we've also previously covered on here, just Friends.
You know, there's that scene at the end where Ryan
Raylds is telling you an Affairs about how scary it
is to like, you know, have friends and make friends
is because it's this practice of putting yourself out there

(01:28:52):
and hoping that people just resonate with you, you know,
and helping people just click with you. And sometimes you'll
put yourself out there and it'll be torn apart. And
then sometimes you'll be out there and be like you'll
find your best friends. Like that's the guy that I
started Victims and Villains with is like, to this day

(01:29:12):
still one of my one of my best friends, even
though he's not around anymore. And you know, it was
really surreal experienced earlier this year having him back on
a biz gazing to talk about alien resurrection. Like it
was a really surreal moment for me because it's like, man,
it's like we start this as a way to exercise

(01:29:32):
our own mental health and escape our own situations, and
now here we are, all these years later helping people. Yeah,
you know, and and look at look at what Victims
has become. And I think about like, you know, the
things about you know about things you know, but again
it's it's it's this act of you know, putting yourself

(01:29:53):
out there. I think our friendship ended up like starting
over like a Batman button that I had at work
when we did you know, so started out like really
dumb and then like it just kind of like started
spiraling into like you know what it is today. And
that's like, you know, some of the some of the
friendships that I hold near and dear, you know, are
sorry to start it the exact way. And it's also ironically,

(01:30:16):
how about my wife as well?

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
So oh yeah see, and you'll never know unless you
unless you try, unless you say something like this is
actually And I realized that this episode is coming out
long after my next faceball book comes out, which is
pitches be crazy. But I love a good pun. We know,
this about me. I but I am. I am deep

(01:30:39):
into my final edits on this book, like as we speak,
it's coming out in a few weeks. And and that's
actually I just finished writing a scene a chapter yesterday
that's very much about that, where my main character, you know,
she's a lot of my characters are very reminiscent of
a piece of me. And she she's the last single

(01:31:01):
girl in her friend group, and she basically tells her friend,
you know, it's kind of hard, like I feel like
I'm watching everybody else live their lives and I'm not
and I'm not doing that. And her friend tells her, well, like,
you know, you can't. You can't mourn what could have
been if you don't actually try, Like if you're not

(01:31:23):
putting yourself out there, if you're not pursuing these things
that you think could hurt you, and maybe they will.
But so long as you have this incredible support system,
so long as you have everything else in your life,
there's no reason why you can't try again. And that's
just part of life is trying, failing, trying, succeeding, finding

(01:31:45):
people that work with you, finding people, my favorite is
finding people who match your freak that's like that's the
what they say, what the kids are saying on the
TikTok and and not everybody will and that's okay, but
you won't know in unless you try.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
Sure, Yeah, absolutely, you know. It's it's scary, man, you know,
it's scary to kind of put yourself out there.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
It doesn't get easier, like we're in our thirties and
like it's still we're still figuring it out as as
we go. And I actually think that that's one of
my I think there's a lot of negatives to social media,
but I think that that is actually one of my
favorite things that has come out of social media, especially
like post pandemic, has been this whole idea of people

(01:32:30):
posting photos and videos that are not glamorous, that are
not I have everything together and look at my glorious
kitchen in my million dollar home. There are those people. However,
I think it's been kind of nice seeing other people say, yeah,
I am thirty five in single, or oh I'm I

(01:32:52):
got breakfast delivered to me today because I didn't want
to get out of bed. Like, I think there's there's
nothing wrong with I don't think there's a specific age
where you have to have everything together, and what does
that even look like? Because together is going to look
different for every person. And so I appreciate people having

(01:33:14):
conversations like that, and you know, especially I mean, I'm
trying to tie it back into like what we've been
talking about with the with the movie, but especially child stars,
like former child stars who have written books and had
podcasts and talked about, Yeah, remember that movie you love, Well,
here's all the crappy stuff I was going through behind
the scenes of that, and here's what I've done to

(01:33:37):
change things for myself. So we're all figuring it out
one day at a time, and regardless of how alone
you're feeling, you're not like. That's I guess with a
takeaway that I hope everybody has.

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean we're you mentioned where both
of us are in our thirties. Marty Wolf also in
his thirties. Is what Yeah, yeah, he's in the early
thirties in this one. Oh no, yeah, Paul Giamatti's like, uh,
he's he's like maybe thirty three, maybe thirty five in

(01:34:13):
this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Okay, no shade to Paulgiamatti, whom I do adore, but
I have to say, twenties and thirties looked very different
in the nineties and two thousands than it does today.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
Yeah, he was born in sixty seven, so he's fifty
seven now.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
So this movie, I think it was because everybody was
on cocaine. Like, I really do think that that aged
everybody like a solid like fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Yeah, because this he was thirty four when he made
this movie. Well technically he was thirty three because he
had this They shot this in early two thousand and one,
so yeah, he was Okay, thirty three.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
As somebody who is thirty three, That like really hurts.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
But yeah, I will tie back into you know what
you were talking about. It's, you know, just again, it's
this practice of just putting yourself out there and just
and I don't necessarily say like, yeah, just hoping for
the best. I mean, that's that's the best thing that
you can one hundred percent hope for.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
You are the best, period.

Speaker 1 (01:35:27):
Yeah, I'm just gonna send that out to listeners. I'm
not going to take the credit for that one, all right.
So while we're on the subject of child stars, I
want to tell you my Amanda Byns theory, and I
want to make I want to challenge you as we
wind down this episode. Amanda Biins before I before I get,
before I say this. So, Amanda Biens is the only

(01:35:48):
actress whose film career starts and stops with some commonalities. Okay,
so this was her first movie ever and her her
last movie that she ever did was Easy eight in
two thousand and ten. So the yeah, it's a great movie,

(01:36:08):
the com the the the commonalities between this also mean
that she started her filmography career and stopped it with
these three notes. First off, a blue man. Second, if
you haven't seen Easy a in a while, remember that
they were event before he was the Woodchuck, the ben

(01:36:33):
Oh he used the Blue Devil, the Blue Devil this movie.
They also her career also started and stopped with a Tucci.
So if you did not know, Jason's mom in this
movie is played by shoot, what is Christine Tucci? Who

(01:36:58):
is the of Stanley Tucci?

Speaker 2 (01:37:02):
Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
And this and lastly, but most importantly, both movies revolve
around the impact and downward spiral of a lie gone awry?

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
Yes, yeah, excellent, excellent. I look forward to your thesis
paper on this on this that is that is one
hund accurate. I forgot about the Blue Devil. You got
me with that one, but the other two great great

(01:37:37):
Stanley Tucci. I love Stanley Tucci. I did not know
his sister. However, now that you have made me aware,
I also I feel like she like had like no
lines in the movie. Like as I was watching it,
I kept thinking, is she actually an extra that they
just like never paid They didn't pay her enough to
like actually have a line in this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
So yeah, like that's it's it's a like Christine Tucci's
character is really weirdness, so for most people are like
have that same kind of note, does she actually say anything?
She has like two lines in this entire movie, And
it's like at the very beginning during that like live
montage where she's like did you eat your oat meal?

Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
And she's like, that's the only one I remember.

Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
She got like one other one when he like gets
like disciplined by the by the teacher, like she go, uh,
she goes like right before he gets senses to summer school,
She's like, what are what are the options that we have?
So just who lines in this entire movie? But for
his disgrace as it is, there was a twenty seventeen

(01:38:42):
sequel to this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
Oh god, I can't even think about how that would have.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
Gone, called Bigger Fatter Liar, which also in retrospect, feels
tone deaf because not only is the protagonist Larry Wolf
way worse in a post me too movement than Marty Wolf.
Ever was this That movie came out literally a year
after the me too movement started, I believe, so let me.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
Two thousand and seventeen. Oh my god. I thought you
said two thousand and seven, and I was like, sure,
why not? But twenty seventeen, No, this is way too late,
like way too. It's too late from when the first
one came out, I feel like. And it's also too
recent where like this would be like acceptable.

Speaker 1 (01:39:36):
So I stand corrected. So the me too movement was
actually started as a part of my Space, which I
did not know, by a sexual assault survivor and activist
Toronto Burke. The hashtag me too me too was started
in twenty seventeen, so it gained a It was used
as a way to draw attention to the magnitude of

(01:39:59):
the problem, so right around the same time that this
movie had come out. It it is a rough but
the one thing that I will give it credit for
is they took the mom completely out of the picture.
It's it's father and son. So they simplified it like
that's the only It's like one of the only good
things I can give it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:19):
Yeah, she had she had no purpose in this movie,
like sad sad to say, but like I mean her,
it's like, you know how in the Barbie movie, it's
like Ken's job is beach like her her job was
mom like it was it was just, oh, that's mom,
we needed, we needed a mom figure here.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
Done. Uh, So I'm gonna hit you with some last
minute trivia if that is cool with you, But yes,
I agree with you. So uh for the in Universe
movie announcer for the Big Fat Liar trailer that kind
of is the lynchpin of the entirety of the film.

(01:40:58):
It is not known who played that voiceover announcer in
the trailer, and to this day, the actor has never
received has never either wanted receive credit, or it never
has and it still remains a mystery to this day.
How would you guys like to help us get mental
health resources into schools, conventions, and other events. Well, now

(01:41:23):
you can simply go to Patreon dot com Ford Sage
Victims and Villains. For as little as one dollar a month,
you guys can help us get mental health resources into
current and upcoming generations, educate and breakdown stigma surrounding mental health,
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(01:41:44):
can't get anywhere else. And you guys can tell us
which Nicholas Cage movie you want us to cover and
we'll do it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:52):
All it takes to get started is to go to
Patreon dot com Ford Sage Victims and Villains or simply
click the link in the episode just ruption wherever you
guys are croaently listening or streaming this episode, pick your
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Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
Oh my god, that's so that's so weird. I would
have thought it was just like you know, I don't know,
like the the Mister movie Phone like of that time
or whatever. But that's so interesting. Yeah, why why.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
It's like a red a thing, you know, like it
was just like, yeah, you know, we're gonna get you
to say like three sentences and oh, he's like I
just reads like the rest of the script and he's
just like, oh, this is this is gobbage.

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
I don't want somebody who like worked on the movie
like watch it be like Larry from from Sound Equipment, Like,
oh yeah, you know, he was free that afternoon, so
we just had him do it. And he was supposed
to be like a placeholder until we hired somebody to
do it, but we just like left it in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:43:14):
Yeah, it's it's really weird because like there was like
in the that was another thing that I really missed
about like the early the late nineties, early aughts, was
that they had a signature voiceover rule that would just
kind of like come over and uh, like some some
friends of mine recently on their podcast covered Princess Diaries
and they played the trailer at one point during it,

(01:43:38):
and it's that signature of voiceover that I believe is
also in the trailer for this for for the actual
Big Fat Liar movie. But yeah, it's it's just such
a crazy thing to consider in the grand scheme of things.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
Yeah, like, of all the things, of all the trivia
I expected to hear about this movie that definitely wouldn't
have crossed my but now now that it has, I'm
not gonna be able to stop thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:06):
So probably one of the goofs of this film. But
earlier during his campaign for the Holdovers uh GQ, Vanity
Fair did like you know, most iconic pology Amoni rules.
Both videos address this, and he talked about like, you know,
only being like being blue for you know one essentially
one day of the shoot and it stayed on his

(01:44:28):
feet for a long time. It was tattoo ink that
they use. But here's a goof that. Uh, there's there's
two goofs with him is blue. So the first one
comes when he jumps in the pool and if you
pause it the film at just the right moment, he
actually turns blue before even entering into the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:44:52):
Great.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
The second one comes after he comes after the birthday
party and he's sitting in in the car and he's
like trying to like turn down the music because Blue's
playing and when you look at it, it's a blank
and you miss it moment. But his hands they're not
actually like blue. In that moment, he's that there's are

(01:45:15):
actual surgical gloves.

Speaker 2 (01:45:17):
Oh my god, that's so funny. It's the things that
they the things that they got away with, like honestly,
like ten twenty years ago in in movies and showed
like speaking of friends. There's like there's like some cut
where they do a wider camera and you can see
that like the person that's supposed to be Rachel, it

(01:45:41):
is just like a completely different person. Like I it's
so funny to like see goofs from from older things
because they're so obvious to like what we would expect
now that h oh, that's wow. I did notice. I
noticed one, and I think it was more of like
a continuity er. I mean, obviously they all are, but

(01:46:03):
like it was where it's when he it's when they're
doing like the big chase at the end and Marty
is they get into the golf carts. Yeah, like grabs
like two guys and like throws them out of the way,
like get out of my way, I'm taking your golf cart,
and like he sits in the golf cart and literally
like less than a second later, they like pull the

(01:46:25):
camera back and like those two guys that he just
threw on the ground are like nowhere, like just nowhere
to be seen. And I was like, oh my god,
where did they go?

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
There's another one too, in that like a few minutes later,
where he's you know, Jason's clearly leading him up the
stairs to the to the roof, and the stairs leading
up to the roof, He's got funny bones in his
backpack and you can kind of see him just hanging out.
It cuts away for a like a spilit and I

(01:46:58):
emphasize it second. Yeah, and the next thing, he's like
he's up holding him up, and I'm like, dude, that
that doesn't how did you get that? There's no way
because like you can't reach that, just do that. But yeah, uh.
In early drafts of this movie, Kaylee was actually considered
was it was a boy, which I am. I'm curious

(01:47:21):
to know if that was actually a Schneider decision or
if that was actually a uh, if that was actually
a Kirkpatrick and Hamburg decision.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, to be fair, I think
you honestly could have gone either way. I do. I
like that it's her, and I also kind of love
that they don't make it like a romantic thing between
the two of them, like they are definitely friends, like
start to finish, which is great, very rare to see.

(01:47:57):
I will say, and and I don't know, I love that.
I just loved her character. I feel like if it
had been a guy playing Kaylee's character of whoever Kaylee
was originally meant to be, that it would have been
a different character. I don't think it would have been Kaylee.
And I loved that she was like the super organized

(01:48:19):
super you know, uh, she could have been working at
that studio now at like fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:48:25):
She's a great juxposition to to to Jason, Yeah, but
also the uh to to that point. I'm almost curious too,
because like, this movie doesn't doesn't give Biines a whole
lot to do, but for the moments that she does
where you know she's taking over for Asterisk, who incredible

(01:48:47):
cameo in this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:48:51):
Uh it was okay wait, I didn't look it up,
but is it what surface from Grey's Anatomy.

Speaker 1 (01:48:58):
So Rebecca Core is that the actress's name, And she's
most notably known for the other thing that I know
her for is from a King of Queen's episode called
the called the The the Waitress. But yes, so she

(01:49:19):
is mostly known for stand up comedy. She's she's a
huge dog activist. So there's like a portion of her
that's like actually like in this movie. But she's also
done yes man, rules of Engagement, Yes, dear Employee of
the Month, reckoning cool.

Speaker 2 (01:49:39):
Okay, not who I thought it was, but love that
though I actually, I really I thought she had a
really underrated part.

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
She got a great part in this. But again, like
I I my point that I was gonna make is
like I'm curious Win low hand a part of the picture,
how much of Kaylee changed to accommodate binds this care
style of comedy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:04):
No, that's a good point because they I do think
that there are a lot of roles that the two
of them probably vied for, like at that at that time.
I can see there being a lot of crossover, but
they do have different kinds of comedy. And I really
enjoyed what Kaylee's comedy was in this movie. So I'm

(01:50:26):
kind of wondering, like what I feel like Lindsay Lohan
as Kaylee would have been a little more reserved, yeah,
and like scolding him more. And I don't know, like
I kind of picture her from like mean girls, like
that's kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:50:42):
Like like Katie. Yeah, I was gonna say Freaky Friday.
I think that like that a little bit of that
punk edge. But yeah, because I mean that's kind of
like the two you know, iconic roles that she has
around this time, so it would make more sense that
she play something that would almost kind of fit into
tone with that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:00):
Yeah. Yeah, So either way, I'm glad it was Amanda
because I was like a big Amanda Bay and scirrelation shame.

Speaker 1 (01:51:08):
Yeah, I love her. The uh so I got a
couple more fun facts here for you, and there was
a uh in uh for the scenes that were in
the prop room, they actually had hired a guard whose
sole job was to make sure that nobody touched the
Grinch suit. Sure imagine putting that on your resume.

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
Yeah, yeah, that would have been a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:51:34):
That's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:51:36):
I was like, it's so funny because like I have
been to like Universal Studios, and I'm just like there's
a part of me that's jaded, that's like this isn't there,
Like where are the fact that everybody was like filming
multiple movies on the lot together. It is it's the
very glamorized idea of what Hollywood is. And if that's

(01:52:01):
the picture that people have of Hollywood. I'm glad they
have it, but definitely not what it looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
It's also a very like simplified version because if you
think about it, like he is uh, you know, he's
there in Michigan shooting Whittaker and foul and like a
couple of months later he's promoting it and they've got
the premiere, which for one seems seems kind of weird,

(01:52:29):
like that's that's not how how that actually works in
the timeline.

Speaker 2 (01:52:33):
Yeah, the timeline is whack adoodle. And then and then
he's starting filming on the next movie like the next day,
and there's still no approved budget or script, like absolutely not,
there's no way, there's no way.

Speaker 1 (01:52:47):
Yeah. No. The original title of this movie, speaking of films,
was actually called Lost and Found, which makes sense, no sense,
but big fat liars like more memorable. Yeah, the scenes
that took place at Marty Wolf Pitchers were actually filmed
at the offices of Will Smith's production company, over Brook Entertainment.

(01:53:11):
And while we're on the topic of Will Smith, originally
the the way that they had envisioned the ending movie
within this movie of the production coming to to to hand,
the the big fat liar in universe. Originally it was

(01:53:31):
scripted as a celebrity cameo, so originally the whole uh,
you know, Donald Faison becoming an actor, you know, wasn't.
Originally at first it was it was supposed to be
Will Smith, which would have made sense. Then they thought
about Shaquille O'Neil, and then and then in the end.

(01:53:55):
On on the set while they were making the movie,
Donald Faison pitched the idea of Sean Levy that it
would actually be more rewarding and heartwarming to have Frank
become the strang movie well.

Speaker 2 (01:54:10):
And like, especially since he has the whole storyline of
that he wanted to be that that. Honestly, I can't
believe that wasn't like part of the original concept because
like that makes sense, Like you've introduced this character who
wants to be an actor, we get to see him
become an actor. I don't know why. That might be

(01:54:31):
one of those moments though, where it's like, and I
have these as a writer where you have such a
duh moment like in front of you and you don't
see it until somebody else suggests it and you're like, well, yeah,
of course, why why wasn't that always the plan. So
I like that they went with what they went with.

Speaker 1 (01:54:50):
Yeah, uh, it just it seems a lot more like
rewarding and it's like a bigger payoff for that one.
So the last fact that I'm going to give you
and I'm gonna I'm gonna pitch you my movie idea
for this.

Speaker 2 (01:55:04):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:55:06):
So in the while, he was doing a press for
Free Guy in twenty twenty two, Sean Leevy, it's great movie. Also,
I think there's a lot of correlations between the narrative
of that movie in this movie. Yeah, there's a lot
of crossovers and it reminds me a lot. But they

(01:55:30):
Sean Levy revealed that he's always wanted to make a
direct sequel to this movie, stating the movie would be
a Marty Wolf centered revenge story and he has hopes
for it. Here's the here's the issue with that that
I have in real time. Paul Giamatti does not want

(01:55:50):
to come back to this film, I would imagine fair.
So he did a podcast earlier this year and he
actually called Big Fat Liar the weirdest movie that he's
ever done his entire career. Also fair, But if you
look at the trajectory that he's taking on. In the
last couple of years, he's done a lot of horror.

(01:56:14):
So here is my pitch for a big, fat liar
horror movie. Oh no, set in a proper post Meto
movement world. So this is it. So after the conclusion
of this this movie would take place twenty five years

(01:56:36):
after the events of this movie, he goes back to Barrabus,
New Jersey, where he ends up becoming a clown again
as we see in the ending, and he ends up
stumbling upon a b He gets hired at a birthday
party where he notices that a young performer has a

(01:56:59):
lot of energy, pitches the idea of the parents to
do a TV show, and the entirety because of New Jersey,
we would we would set this one in New York.
They sell the sitcom centered around this young girl and
her being a child actor. She turns to drugs and

(01:57:22):
Marty kind of returns to his old ways. But twenty
five years past, twenty years past, and she's kind of
dropped out of the limelight. No one knows where she is,
and Marty is arrogantly making his directorial debut where he

(01:57:42):
will be basically fictionalizing the downfall and like the whole
calamity of this movie, so it would be another in
universe film. Okay, you have that young starlet return on
the heels of this big motion picture hit this big

(01:58:04):
moment for Marty. She kidnaps him and essentially tortures him
for all the years that she's spent in rehab going
through drugs, alcoholism, and she says, nothing on this earth
and nothing in this existence will ever teach you the

(01:58:25):
era of your ways. And so she finds a way
to open a portal to hell and the devil takes Marty.

Speaker 2 (01:58:31):
Oh my god, that took a turn. Okay, I kind
of let's build on this because I do. I like
the minute you mentioned her the child star. I went
in a direction very similar in tone, but to shift

(01:58:53):
the focus more on her. That is her movie about
taking down all of the people that exploited her, and
that he is just like one in a series of
awful people from Hollywood. It basically it's it's promising young woman,

(01:59:14):
but Hollywood child star revenge story, which now I'm kind
of thinking about it, I'm like, damn, I'm sort of
obsessed with this, Like I really like this idea.

Speaker 1 (01:59:27):
I don't think my idea will ever come to fruition, but.

Speaker 2 (01:59:31):
But it could be. But that I feel like people
would sign on for the cameos, Like I really.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
Do if if this movie, like if this story was
ever to be told, it would either be a fan
fit that I would write and I'd be terrified because
nobody I'm convinced that nobody could fill the shoes of
Paul Giamonni For one, yeah, for two, I think this
story would would work if I was to ever tell
this in the medium, maybe this would be the first

(01:59:58):
and only novel I write. So maybe I'll take a
page out of your story. Okay, I'll just I'll just
do you know, big about liar fanfic?

Speaker 2 (02:00:06):
I kind of love that. Just call it like huge large.
I don't what's another word for liar, like deceiver, huge large, deceit.

Speaker 1 (02:00:21):
So if if I ever did this, like part of
part of it would like I'll talk we can talk
twists afterwards, because I've got I've like I've thought way
too much about this story and like wanting to do it,
Like it started out as like a short film I
wanted to tell, and then I was like, dude, dude,
all of these other things, like thinking of why is

(02:00:42):
like I've got got it in my in my head,
so maybe I just need to like sit down and
write write a book.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
I did like I'm I'm here. Also, I took a
little peek at what's coming up for Paul Giamadi. This
man's schedule is stacked. He is working on and mind you,
all of these are huge things. He's working on Downton
Abbey three, which I'm like, I didn't realize there was
a two, Like that's that's news to me, Star Trek,

(02:01:12):
Starfleet Academy, San Andreas two, which also news to me.
Loved the first one, and then Astele, which I'm like,
I don't. I don't personally want a a reboot of Hostile,
Like that's not one that I need to see it again.

Speaker 1 (02:01:29):
Hostel is going to be a series, uhh. But Eli
Roth is also coming back to it for it because
I haven't pulled up here, I yeah, I don't know
he uh. One of them that like I really need
to to commit to and get over is uh is

(02:01:51):
thirty Coins. It's a series. It's a Spanish series that
came on uh HBO back in two thousand twenty one,
I think. But it's the idea of these this family
like discovers the the thirty coins that Judas accepted to

(02:02:14):
portray Jesus, but they have like supernatural properties, and so
he plays a billionaire in the second season that is
haunting these people ruthlessly to get to acquire these coins.
Oh so I'm kind of here for it. But like

(02:02:34):
he's he's got such a weird filmography because just like
going through it, like he's done, you know, Rick and Morty.
But he's also you know, just announced like voices like
here and there, Jungle Cruise.

Speaker 2 (02:02:47):
I loved him in The Illusionist, like very underrated. He's
so good in that, And I know that that came out,
like you know how there's always the classic thing of
like the movies that are basically the same movie and
they come out in the same year, And that was
The Illusionist and The Prestige, and there's always like people
arguing about which one is better. I am an Illusionist fan,

(02:03:08):
like that's the one that I pick, But I do
understand why people like The Prestige. But he is so
good in the Illusionist.

Speaker 1 (02:03:16):
It's it's a yeah, it's it's been a while since
I've seen The Prestige or The Illusionists, but I always
remember really loving the Prestige and or not the Pristige.
I love the Prestige, but I also really loved The Illusionist.
I think the back and forth between him and Edward
Norton is fantastic. It's so good in that movie.

Speaker 2 (02:03:38):
And I love a mystery. I love when you like
put all the pieces together at the end and there's
like that I call it, like the Steven Soderberg like
scene where it's like they show you all the things
that like you should have noticed earlier, but now you
see them all together and it all makes sense. So yeah,
oh god, so good. But yeah, so long story short,
it might be hard to get him for for your

(02:04:00):
horror fleck. However, maybe if we work on the book first,
by the time the movie adaptation rolls around, he'll be free.

Speaker 1 (02:04:11):
Yeah, you know, and I got like the I got
three years to essentially write it. As you know, twenty
five years is coming up in twenty twenty seven. But
I'll hit you with one more fun fact and this
is not so fun that we'll do social media and
we'll leave. So the previously aforementioned and I learned this
last night. Big Fat Liar sequel Bigger Fat or Liar

(02:04:37):
tells the story of It's basically this, but it's it's
in video games, so again, it's basically the same exact premise.
The protagonist in this one is named Kevin Sheppard. The
antagonist is Larry Wolf. So, like I said, double down
on the whole thing. But the fun fact for this movie,

(02:04:58):
even though it was in twenty sixteen, you want to
know who actually auditioned to play the protagonist in this
straight to video uh sequel?

Speaker 2 (02:05:10):
Hopefully not Paul Giamatti. No, okay, twenty sixteen straight to video.
It can't be. It can't be somebody too big, Like,
there's no.

Speaker 1 (02:05:22):
Way one would. Uh. So just just for this is
this is Kevin we're talking about here.

Speaker 2 (02:05:30):
Oh okay, So the kid the kid? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
don't Timothy.

Speaker 1 (02:05:37):
Shallow uh close?

Speaker 2 (02:05:43):
Actually, uh the Spider Man kid? Uh, Tom Holland.

Speaker 1 (02:05:49):
Tom Holland is correct? Really, Tom Holland, it was it
was uh, it was actually between him and a few
other kids. Let me asktually pull up here. So yeah,
it was I read somewhere that yeah. So uh. Ansel
Eckert from the faulton our stars. Uh, Tom Holland and

(02:06:14):
Lucas Tilt were all offered, uh tested for the roles.

Speaker 2 (02:06:18):
I don't know the last one, Lucas somebody.

Speaker 1 (02:06:20):
Lucas Tilt, I believe if I remember correctly, he was Yeah,
so he's been doing mcguy for the last few years.
He was Havoc in uh First Class, X Men and
an Apocalypse, and not to mention, he was also Travis

(02:06:40):
and Hannah Montana the movie.

Speaker 2 (02:06:43):
Oh my gosh, No, I actually I recognize him from
from X Men, but no, he's a door. That's that's
so funny because you're right, they all they all like
an Ansel too. They're all in like that time range
of like when they this would have been probably like
a thing before they got famous, and then they each
did something that was much much bigger.

Speaker 1 (02:07:07):
So the crazy thing is is the cast the short
lists that we're considered for Larry Wolf, the protagonist of
that movie. So Danny trey Hooe would have been really interesting.
But trey Hoe is actually done like roles that are
very similar to this. Yeh Ti Bernal that is most

(02:07:28):
known for probably Modern Family one and more people, Dolph Lundering,
Oh God, Michael Sea Hall.

Speaker 2 (02:07:39):
Uh. Actually, you know what, that that one, probably of
all the ones you've said so far, makes the most
sense to me.

Speaker 1 (02:07:46):
Michael Sea Hall seems too big for this.

Speaker 2 (02:07:50):
Oh, I agree, because that would have been that would
have been after Dexter.

Speaker 1 (02:07:55):
Yes, Chris Hardwick, which this seems like a really weird
choice to put in there. Andy Daly, whose name I
am not super familiar with. Oh that guy, he he's
pretty funny. I could have seen him do that role
looking him up. Oh gay ye, semi pro Dark Side

(02:08:18):
of the Moon. They're Dark of the Moon transformers. But
the one that the one that I can't wrap my
head around is Richard Jenkins Oscar Winner from Step Brothers.

Speaker 2 (02:08:30):
No, he must have had like not nothing on his
plate that year, like to even be thinking about doing bigger,
fatter liar.

Speaker 1 (02:08:40):
Let's go. So so he he was doing at the time,
he had done around this time that they would have
been filming. He had the hollers l g lb JA,
Kong Skull Island, the shape of water. I mean like
he was like knocking it out of the water. So

(02:09:01):
for them to like even be like, yeah, we're gonna
picture this, like the kids make more sense. But to
go after these like huge celebrities for this tiny direct
to video sequel that a nobody asks for b that
is a sequel to a movie about plagiarism that plagiarizes

(02:09:25):
the movie that it's a sequel to is just baffling
to me.

Speaker 2 (02:09:29):
Okay, I have to know and then I promise we
can wrap things up. Who who did they end up
with for this what I'm assuming is the monstrosity.

Speaker 1 (02:09:37):
Of a film. It's it's not as bad as everyone
makes it out to be. Is it Is it bad? Yes,
it's but it has its moments. There are definitely some
times where I found myself laughing, but yet it was
overall it's pretty bad. But they end up going out
with Barry Bostwick, Oh my god, kind of left Yeah

(02:10:01):
he uh, mostly known for playing Brad in Rocky Horror
Picture Show. Also did uh Spin City. But the yeah
so bigger, fatter liars like kind of kind of weird.
It hits a lot of those same notes, but like
instead of making him a clown, they they made him
a mime. And I'll ask this, like, did it how

(02:10:25):
do you feel about the ending of this movie the
third act where like they've he's essentially no longer blue.
He's like scrubbed Turbentine off him. Do you think that
this the finale of this movie should have had him
in blue or are you okay with him kind of
being back to normal?

Speaker 2 (02:10:41):
I don't, honestly, I don't really care either way. I
kind of like it makes sense to me that he
would be scrubbed clean because it kind of it feeds
into like the the end of AAC two, you know what,
like point of despair or like we're not gonna like
the bad guy is gonna win, and so it would

(02:11:03):
make sense that it's like, oh, yeah, he is going
to Win's his movie starts filming tomorrow. He's got the
producer back on his side. He's scrubbed clean. He looks
like he did at the beginning. He's ready to go.
He's learned absolutely nothing. So that does make sense to
me in terms of like humiliation. He could have still
been blue, but we get that payoff at the end

(02:11:25):
when he's a clown.

Speaker 1 (02:11:26):
Anyway, so we do, and he like if you watch
the movie, like when you see the shower scene, like
he's darker than like as the film kind of progresses,
he gets like eventually lighter, and so when he's having
that like fashion show that's like set up against you
can tell that, like he's lighter than when he starts.
So it does make sense. But the reason I bring

(02:11:47):
it up is because in the sequel they make him
into a mime, and so they actually put bleach and
like white skin dye into his like lotions, so he's
like forever wow white. It's yeah, it's it's it's uncomfortable.
He's a terrible line at the end.

Speaker 2 (02:12:07):
By the way, that's too much. I By the way,
I'm looking up, I know what you're talking about. I'm
seeing a picture of this and it's honestly the stuff
of nightmares. I don't recognize either of these kids. And
the thing I was most interested in was whether or
not because this absolutely could not have like Sean Leevy
attached to it like at this point, and it's a

(02:12:28):
completely different director, completely different set of writers, and the
one of the writers who's also the director. If you
look at his IMDb, it's almost entirely Lifetime and Hallmark
Christmas and mystery movies, which, by the way, is like
my dream, like if I could make a living of
just writing Hallmark Movies for the rest of my life.

(02:12:51):
I would be happy as a clown. Clown. But he
did write the Christmas Movie with Lindsey Lohan, so kind
of brings things back full circle.

Speaker 1 (02:13:06):
So what's what's so crazy is that originally, and I
don't know if this was like in his negotiation, but
Ron Oliver is the guy they talked about. So he
did an interview in twenty nineteen, two years after, and

(02:13:27):
he actually said that they are. He says, quote after that,
I'm doing two mystery movies back to back, the first
Picture Perfect Mystery franchise, and then we jump into Big
Fat Liar three. He actually said it in like an
interview for an Australian podcast that they were working on
Big Fat Liar three. But this the sequel, received so

(02:13:52):
much negativity that almost virtually any sign of a third
film being completed is gone.

Speaker 2 (02:14:01):
And that's fair.

Speaker 1 (02:14:03):
I would say that the only way you would ever
see it back would be if it was something that
Sean Levy Levy or Paul Giamidi was involved in.

Speaker 2 (02:14:14):
I could I could potentially see them revisiting it. I mean, look,
look how long it took for them to get to
the second one. It was fifteen years later. I could
see them maybe trying to tackle another installment in like
ten years when you're onto like the next generation of kids.
But also like why, Like I don't know, but this

(02:14:38):
also ties into like a much larger discussion about like
why not just create original projects as opposed to remaking things?

Speaker 1 (02:14:45):
Yeah, And I mean even though this is this is
loosely based off of you know, the Boy who Crib Wolf,
you know, Wolf and Shepherd, like it's and it there's
there's enough here that I think there's that has originality
to it to whether you know, but he's talking about
the blue dye or Marty Wolf for the Paul Giamatti,

(02:15:06):
or the number of cameos that are in this movie,
or just how much of a fever dream this is, Like,
this movie is such a well I think we talked
about this, you know, we talked about the cast and
the crew, everyone involved. This is a lightning in a
bottle moment. Yeah, Like, I do not think you ever

(02:15:26):
recapture something like this.

Speaker 2 (02:15:29):
No, there's no other movie that's like Big Fat Liar.
And actually I would go as far to say that
there are things that they do in this movie that
I think they were probably one of the first ones
to do it that other movies then took from. Like
I think of, like, oh, it's so funny. I think
of John Tucker Must Die, and like when they're trying

(02:15:50):
to like sabotage him and like putting things in bottles,
and it's the same in I Love. It's such such
a silly movie. I love the movie The Other Woman
with Leslie Mann and Cameron Diet, like and they swap
out his shampoo for rogue for Mayor and like all

(02:16:10):
this suff And I think back and I'm like, I
don't remember there being a lot of other movies doing
that at the time. I'm sure they probably were, But
the pranks in movies, especially like kids movies, I guess
really it ties back to Home Alone now that I
think about it, But those were like more harmful pranks,

(02:16:31):
like physically harming somebody as opposed to just sort of
like messing with their hair or you know, I don't know,
like sending them to the wrong place. Like I really
do think that they kind of launched a whole new
subset of frank war style stories in this movie.

Speaker 1 (02:16:53):
And I think, yeah, I think you're right, But I
think also at the same time, is that were this
time period, Like we talked about this film being a
time capsule, but it's also on the flip side of that,
it's kind of not you know, it is what it's
not where it's this movie. I think you can show
this to any generation and whether it's the music or

(02:17:14):
the comedy, or the performances or even the themes of
working for really cruddy bosses, Like, there's just something about
this movie that is bound to resonate with every person.

Speaker 2 (02:17:28):
Yeah, I agree, I agree. I'm I'm glad you asked
me to watch it because, like I said, it's been
years since I've watched this movie, and I had forgotten
so much about it. And I'm always pleasantly surprised when
I when I can still enjoy a movie that was
made twenty thirty forty years ago now. And I know

(02:17:49):
that sometimes it's because of nostalgia, and I'm sure that
that is a part of this experience as well, but
sometimes it's just still still an enjoyable movie. That's kind
of that's kind of a nice Uh. It makes me
hopeful for like books and movies and music for the future,
because like I want to see kids in like ten

(02:18:10):
fifteen years having that experience as well, where they're revisiting
things from when we grew up or when our parents
grew up and still very much enjoying them.

Speaker 1 (02:18:21):
I think it's just a great I think this movie
is like one of a few that we grew up
on that's not Disney based, that you can show people
and them still have a good time, you know. And
I think it comes down to just how oddly wholesome
this movie is. Where there's there's not a lot of
swearing in this movie. It's it's pretty pure, and it's

(02:18:45):
just it's a fun film from like the time that
you start until the time you end. I mean, I
feel like any movie that starts with smash Mouth and
ends with Bahaman like it's all hot to love.

Speaker 2 (02:18:56):
That's honestly, And the podcast right there, that's the perfect
perfect message to end on right there.

Speaker 1 (02:19:05):
Well, World Board time, thank you guys for hanging out
with us. This surprisingly went a lot longer than I
was anticipating on but this was a good, good podcast
and a good conversation. So if you guys have memories
of Big Fat Liar, what are they? What movies are
you guys thankful of? Let us know write to us
on our social media. But Kelly, on the note of

(02:19:26):
social media, where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (02:19:28):
Oh god, I spend too much time on social media,
so honestly, if you see me there, tell me to
get off. I am at author Kelly Ray r e
Y short for Reynolds on Instagram, on TikTok, I'm at
real Kelly Ray And I also I don't check it

(02:19:49):
as often now that I'm not doing the podcast as much,
but I am at Booby's podcast across the platforms. And
actually it's perfect that this is coming out because, like
I said, I have the Twelve Days of Boobsmiths coming
out in December. I haven't recorded a podcast episode in months,
and I'm so looking forward to to just talking about

(02:20:11):
holiday romance, giving away some books to listeners, and yeah,
it's gonna be my favorite. It's the most wonderful time
of year. I know, I know it's like it's such
a cliche, but it really is, like in my mind,
I love the holidays.

Speaker 1 (02:20:28):
Well, I am excited about coming back, so let me
know what book I need to read. Okay, But I
am on letterbox where you guys can see me gush
about this movie, and a bunch of other films, including
films that Kelly and I have covered previously, like Clock,
which is still to this day one of my favorite
podcasts that we've ever done.

Speaker 2 (02:20:48):
Oh my god, that movie's haunting me still.

Speaker 1 (02:20:52):
Speaking of that podcast, it took place on a biscazing.
You guys can search of Biscazing wherever you guys get
your podcasts from, but on Letterbox I Matt Captain Nostalgia,
you guys can find Victims and Villains. We are on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube,
and wherever you guys get your podcasts from. You guys
can also consider supporting us monthly over on Patreon, Patreon

(02:21:14):
dot com, forward slash Victims and Villains, where you guys
get video versions of our podcasts and also help us
help support our mental health education efforts as well. So
until next week, remember to stay thankful.

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Big Fat Liar (2002) | Episode #469

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Big Fat Liar (2002) | Episode #469