Mission: Impossible (Rogue Nation & Dead Reckoning) | Episode #476 - Victims and Villains

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to
listen to Dan and Josh talk about Mission Impossible five,
the six, and seven. We'll explain why we're doing six
the way that we are when we get to it.
But this message will now self self destruct. You a

(00:26):
lord and name.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
To me.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
I feel like by now I should I should get
that right. And I was like editing the other first
the first two episodes, and I was like, ah, I
might as well just keep the tradition, you know, screw
it up on the third one.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Let let me tell you that because I had no
intention to rewatch these movies in anticipation of the final reckoning,
and then you reached out and you were like, let's
do them all. And I was like, all right, I'm
bad at saying no to things, so it's like, let's
do it. So the number of times over the past
few weeks I've had to hear this message will self
destruct in five seconds is more that I intended or

(01:22):
ever wanted to. But you know what, we're here and
I'm having a great time with it.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
So here is a fun fact now for my fellow
sinophiles that are on letterboxed that you can do anytime
that you log a Mission Impossible film to your diary,
the screen goes completely black and it gives you like
an automated mission. And it's not just dead reckoning or

(01:47):
final reckoning. It is every single Because I logged the
day that we're recording this, I logged Mission Impossible one
and two with the link to the one and two episode,
and I like thought that my computer had a virus
because I had read about it and forgot about it
super early this morning, and then it like creates this countdown,

(02:08):
and then right before it's getting ready to like self destruct,
it's like message interpret it by hunt Ethan. I was like, oh,
this is really cool. Like I really really thought that
was dope this morning.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
That is cool. I didn't realize Letterbox had that kind
of an Easter egg. That's awesome. I'm gonna have to
go through and lot some movies. I'm getting back in
a letterbox. I think I told you, Josh on earlier episode.
I've gotten out of it. But for me, part of
the motivation is I've collected movie ticket stubs since like
two thousand and two, and I stopped the physical stubs

(02:45):
around twenty twenty two, so it was like twenty years
of collecting stubs. And the reason is because AMC went digital.
You can still get a physical stub, but every time
I would I would have to go to the counter
with my phone and be like, can you print this out?
And every single time they would be like, oh, you
can just go on with your phone, and I would
have to explain, no, I collect the stubs, just give
me the paper. And after doing this like ten times

(03:07):
in a row, I'm like, I'm so tired of explaining
this every single time, so I just kind of stopped.
So letterbox needs to be my go to for logging
these movies and these memories.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
And when I go, yeah, I freaking love Letterbox. I
was like really against it because I had a bunch
of friends that were like, you know, all about it,
and then finally during the pandemic, I was like, all right,
I'll suckered into it kind of like did the free
version for a few months, and then I was like,

(03:38):
if I pay twenty dollars a year, I can get
all these cool added stuff and I was just like,
now it's just now, it's just the annual tradition. Every
January first Letterbox withdraw twenty bucks and I'm just like,
all right, you know, if I got to pay for
social media, I would get rid of every other social
media just have Letterbox.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
It is one of the best and probably the most
positive as well. Where we're recording this right now. The
most recent big movie that came out was The New
Final Destination. Did you go to see that one? Josh
I did.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Well abys Gazing. We'll be putting out an episode later this.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Year, so that was arguably my favorite one in the
series so far. I thought it was done so well
and it was so much fun and definitely got me
hyped for what we'll probably see some deaths in the
new Mission Impossible as well, which we are. We're recording
this this is Monday, so we're four days away from
possibly the last Mission Impossible.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about it in context
when the episode actually comes up, but I'm like, I
everything eventually, like has to die or like the baton
eventually has to be passed. You know, I think we've
seen it with jamespondsic rd example. You know you used
to look up when the actors have taken up the

(04:58):
Mantle bond over years, and I don't necessarily think that
like we would need a new Ethan Hunt. But I
think there is like, you know, you could do a
franchise past Ethan Hunt, you know, because the IMF is
I don't know who you would get because I feel

(05:19):
like Tom Cruise is free out of these very large shoes,
but I'd be interested seeing them do stuff past Ethan Hunt.
I think.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
So it's ripe for spinoffs. Not that I think that
that would be a good idea, but if executed well,
it could go well. And I think, yeah, this, I'm
not convinced based on how well these movies are doing
that Paramount is going to finish this, this eighth installment
and then be like, all right, We're done forever. It

(05:53):
might take a couple decades, but they might let it
sit for a bit, but it's going to be coming
back in one fashion or another, maybe for a new generation.
But I could also picture if Tom Cruise keeps doing
what he's doing, we could go fifteen years and then
he could come back from one last ride.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I read an interview with him that he did with
Rotten Tomatoes earlier today, and he's like, I will make
movies well into my hundreds, And I'm like, first off,
I admired that dedication, and second off, I'm for as
much as I love these movies, I'm really excited to
kind of see him progress into a new era of

(06:30):
acting because it kind of seems like this is not
only a sendoff to big budget action movies that have
kind of defined his career for like the last probably
fifteen to twenty years, but also this is kind of
his you know, goodbye to Ethan Hunt. And because it
seems like a lot of the movies that like he's

(06:52):
signing up for are more risky, they're a little bit
more artistic driven the way that he would be in
like kind of like they're late eighties, early nineties. We
haven't seen that side from him in quite a while.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, definitely not. And I mean it's pretty much confirmed
we're going to be getting another Top Gun at some point,
so I imagine he's going to be slated for that, and
then after that, who knows, We'll see where his career
takes them. But he has said in interviews he wants
to film a scene in space, and now seeing what

(07:27):
the capabilities are and celebrities going into space, I feel
like it's more accessible than ever and I would not
be surprised if he headlines some kind of sci fi
movie that actually gets filmed in space.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Let me just put this out there and then we
can we will jump into Road Nation. Fast and Furious
nine set the bar minions in space. I don't think
you get up any higher than that.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
I think we should get a Fast and Furious and
Mission Impossible crossover, Like they're so many to the point
where I was watching Fallout, there are so many moments
in that movie that are so similar to Fast ten,
and it's extremely funny how they sort of match, like
the similar beats despite being different franchises.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, Yeah, Rogue Nation Part five, Yeah, Transition, Let's just
let's just get into it.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
This is so Roague Nation. This is the movie that
made me a Mission Impossible fan. I saw the trailer.
I talked to this on previous episodes, but I saw
him taking off on the side of that jet, hanging
off it, and I said, that looks really good. I
wonder what they did for visual effects for it. Turns
out there's virtually no visual effects. He just hung off
the side of a military plane as it was taking off,

(08:48):
And I said, this movie came out in twenty fifteen,
I said, oh my god, I have to see this
movie in theaters. Let me watch all of them. And
we got caught up and went to see it in
theaters and it was a great experience. And rewatching it now,
I have so much love for this movie. It's one
of my favorite in the series. I feel like it

(09:09):
was so well done.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I had gotten I kind of established on our last
one that the Ghost Protocol was like just kind of
eh for me, and I kind of feel like they
took what really worked in Ghost Protocol and like really
elevated it, because I feel like these next two entries
are just so incredible. Definitely like highlights coming back into

(09:35):
play here. And I think for me that you know
what a solid opening like when you can literally suspend
your main actor from five thousand feet in the air
and have him do it practically, not just visual effects,
I think you're in for a good time. And this movie,

(09:56):
like I feel like just rewatching it because I haven't
seen this movie probably since I watched a countdown for Fallout,
so twenty eighteen, you know, and just kind of was like, dude,
like this movie just kind of gets progressively better as
it goes along and it's just such a fun time.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
It does, and it introduces some of my favorite characters
who come back, like Ilsa played by Rebecca Ferguson. She
is Lady Jessica in Doune, and she was phenomenal not
just in these movies, but in the following movies that
we see her see. She comes back a few times,
and she she's terrific in this film, and I love

(10:40):
seeing her playing off Ethan Hunt. I love seeing her
have kind of her own missions and responsibilities. It was
just such a cool dynamic kind of getting a woman
to not only play against Tom Cruise, but be able
to match Tom Cruise like beat for beat in terms
of the spy and the energy. That was cool to see.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
I love Rebecca Ferguson in these movies. And I love
also too, the fact that this is the first time
that feels like we're kind of seeing a world past
IMF that's not just the bad guys, like there very
much are villains in this movie. And I do want

(11:19):
to talk about Sean Harris because I think he's outstanding
in this movie. But this is the first time that
you kind of get to see another side of espionage,
and that's partially what I really like about Elsa's character
is kind of also getting to see a little bit
more into this world that's not just incredibly one side

(11:42):
the way that a lot of these films have made
it feel before.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Definitely agreed, and I also love how we get a
closer look at some of the different protocols that are happening.
And this has probably my favorite scene of Ethan getting
the message, where he goes into the record store, goes
through all the code words, gets the record he plays
and it's a high tech record that has like a

(12:07):
holograph on it. How does IMF keep setting up these
obscure drops, like there's one in a phone booth at
one point, now he's in a record store. It's very
parry of the platypusts for anyone who is like Phineas
and ferb fans and every like room and place in
the backyard there's just a secret entrance to his underground layer,
Like IMF is literally everywhere, which is funny because Syndicate

(12:30):
sort of sets themselves up as also being everywhere, like
they are the perfect anti IMF. And it's just really
funny to see how that's set up in this movie.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
You know, I've never kind of considered IMF to be
in that factory. Like there's just a division of the
IMF that's just like, all right, what's the craziest place
that we can do? You know, keep letting them go
to like, you know, Mission Impossible twenty five and Ethan's
got to go to like a strip club and the

(13:00):
stripper pul just get, just gotta get. Yep.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
There's definitely an R and D department in IMF that's
made up of tech nerds who make like one hundred
and fifty grand a year, and their whole job is
to just make up new elaborate ways to hide these
messages and play in sight.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
And it's like it really is like really really cool
the way that they kind of set everything up, because
like there's there's I think we talked about this last
last week where a lot of these films by this
by this point, I think those protocols kind of this
turning point for the franchise where it became very much
intended to be stunt, more stunt focused, and less narrative focus. Yep.

(13:42):
But I think there are these little details, and I
think you see them more in these two than you
do in in Dead Reckoning when we get there. But
I think there are these like really intricate, like little
details like the IMF message that we see here at
the very beginning.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Definitely. How do you feel about like Syndicate as the
the enemy, you know, organization, because I think they were
I like them a lot. I think they were really cool.
I love that it's like the shadow organization. They just
they seem to have eyes everywhere. How how does this
compare to some of the other villains for you that
he was going up against.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
I loved the Syndicate. They are prop probably like the
Holy Trinity of like am I mission impossible? Villains would be? Uh? Well,
why can't I think of the guy's name from part three?

(14:44):
Uh Phillimore, Phil Yeah, Philli Seymour Hoffman. Syndicate and the
Apostles are kind of like that trifecta of like perfect villains. Honestly,
this film, like you know, I kind of go off
of like the old phrase of like your movie is
only as good as your villain. And I think for me,

(15:04):
like the Syndicate, like I think you nailed it, kind
of calling it the anti IMF. Like I think anytime
that you have like an inversion of the hero. It
makes for the best villain and they're the most compelling
watches to me.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, and the way that they are able to infiltrate,
like the scene when he's listening to the record and
getting the mission and then all of a sudden it
takes a turn and you find out that it's IMF
had planted this message for him, and they're even able
to get there. They kill the contact in front of him.
He has to watch it. He gets captured. I know.
I comment on how hot the actors in this movies

(15:40):
are and I'm not gonna stop here. When he's Tom
Cruz is chained to a pipe and he has to
escape and he's not able to. Rebecca Ferguson is there.
She gets him the you know something to like pick
his lock. He tries to get the key, he can't
get it, so he like flips basically upside down and
just does a bunch of crunches like up the pipe

(16:02):
and get up and off. If that pipe only went
all the way up to the ceiling, he would have
been trapped, but no, it was only like twelve feet tall,
so he's able to get to the top of escape
Man fitness goals. I want to be able to do
that someday, not sure if I ever will, but seeing that,
I was like, yep, yep, I want it. If I'm
ever chained to a pipe, I want to be able
to escape like that.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
If it is ever any consolation for your sleep, I
will say there is one thing that both of us
have over Tom Cruise in this movie, and that is
the ability to grow a good beard. The six months
like later, when he like steps out of the shadows
and he's got that like scraggly beard, I was like, ah, man, Like,

(16:43):
I'm a beard enthusiast, and it hurt my soul to
kind of see it. It's like noticing a bad wig
when you watch a movie.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
I also love that transition. Is it Is it Alec
Baldwin who's like, we're gonna direct the full resources to
find Ethan Hunt his time as a free man is
and then it just cuts to six months later and
then they're they're attacking his Yeah, his safe house in Havana,
but he's just there on like FaceTime, but he's actually
in Paris. H It is so great, like classic IMF material.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
How did you kind of feel about the entirety of
the CIA. I like trying to absorb the IMF like
subplot with Baldwin and Renner. Kind of Throughout the movie.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
I found myself thinking more about the logistics of international
espionage more than I ever have, and who's leading these agencies?
Why does the IMF get like carte blanche to do
whatever they want? I forget if it's this movie or
in a later one. It might be in Dead Reckoning

(17:50):
when they're basically like explaining the IMF and they're like,
so we give out missions and then the agent can
choose to accept it or not. And it's questioned to
basically like what kind of organization does an agent get
to decide what mission he does? And they also call
Tom Cruise out in a later movie, I'm like, I wonder,
do you ever not accept the mission? Because we haven't
seen that yet. He accepts every single one. But I

(18:14):
thought I thought it was cool to see seeing Alc
Baldon's character come in having some of like the bureaucracy
in there as well as dealing with uh, yeah, with
all everything that surrounds that, and the IMF kind of
needing the reasoning like for existing.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, that was really refreshing to me. I also felt
like this movie had gives more, gives Renner more to do. Yeah,
I felt like Ingo's protocol, he just kind of seems
like someone that was there as like a casualty that
just kind of showed off and maybe did some cool things,
you know with the magnetism towards the end. But like

(18:53):
this what I feel. I really kind of liked the
way that he ran parallel with the the main storyline
of Ethan trying to hunt down the syndicate, And like,
also Renner just has some with great like comedic lines
in here.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
He definitely does and uh, I think, is this the
one where he starts off and they're like questioning him
and He's like I can either confirm nor deny without
the various express and then the end of the movie
it like bookends it. I just I love that the
delivery in both those scenes was just fantastic.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah. It makes me like, I know, like I'm continuing
to wish and pray for him to like make a recovery,
but like, man, I really miss seeing Redder on the screen.
Is like not just in like the Hawk, the capacity
of Hawkeye, but like just in general, I feel like
he just kind of like disappeared into the winds.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah. Well, and and Jeremy Renner, I mean he is.
I've been a fan of him for longer than I
knew who he was because he played U the bad
guy in the movie Swat that came out, and I
unapologetically love that movie. It is It is great. Any
co stars alongside Colin Farrell in that movie, and Samuel L.

(20:13):
Jackson's in that movie too, a lot of cool people.
But he uh yeah. I was like when I when
I saw him in Hawkeye and then I saw him
in these movies, I was like, Oh, he's from Swat.
I know him. And I'm sure Josh, you've probably heard
and anyone who's up up to date on Marvel has
likely heard these interviews. But the reason we're not getting
a Hawkeye season two is because Disney did not want
to pay Jeremy Renner the same amount that he made

(20:35):
in season one. They actually offered him half. Is what
he says, and his exact quote is something along the
lines of like, what you know, I was in an
accident and now you think I'm half a Jeremy, So
you're gonna pay me half the salary? Like, what's going
on there? So they weren't able to come to a decision.
I hope that someone at Disney eventually comes forward and

(20:55):
is like, guys, we gotta let's pay Jeremy Renner. Like,
I would love to see a season two of Hawkeye.
I would love him to come back in future movies
as well, So I'm hoping we get that, and I
would love to see him return in a mission impossible type.
I would love him to be able to go on
and do more movies. I know, health wise it is,
you know, obviously difficult. He had so many broken bones,

(21:16):
so many broken ribs, claps, lung, He went through it,
and for him to be as well recovered as he
is is nothing short of a miracle. And I just
hope that he continues to get stronger every day, better
every day, in less pain, and be able to return
to work and hopefully work at the caliber that he
was able to prior to his accident.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Well here's a fun trivia fact. So when he signed
up for Ghost Protocol, he signed up for a three
picture deal. Oh really done two of those? I don't know.
I like he like shows up in like a cameo.
If that counts as like being in a picture the
way that it is with Marvel. But yes, he signed
up for a three picture deal and I don't know,

(21:59):
I don't know if you will fulfill that in in
debt or Yeah, final Reckoning, Final Reckoning, yep, I always
want to say dead reckoning parts too, so.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
They changed it on us. It's not fair they changed
the name of the movie halfway through marketing.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
But yeah, Renner is like probably one of my favorite
parts in this movie. I love the kind of back
and forth that he has with with Baldwin in this one,
and the scene where they're in the underground. Maybe you
don't think it'll fall Out where he's in the underground
and they're like getting ready to like betray one another,

(22:37):
and then finds out that, oh no, it's not. Actually
I think it is Fallout.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
That is Fallout because Henry Cavill's in that scene and
that's who they're trying to trick and talk to. Yeah
it is. We've we've watched too many of these movies,
and the fact that we're not covering Fallout it just
makes it more confusing to keep all everything straight. We'll
do our best, though. The listeners deserve it.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
God, it's so good bench she gets to wear a
mask in this movie. Was skipping ahead a little bit,
but yeah, he finally. I was so psyched. I even
I wrote in my notes, Yay Benji gets to wear
a mask. And then immediately after, oh, fake out, Benji
doesn't get to wear a mask because their machine wasn't
working or they realized, oh yeah, they realized, Oh now

(23:25):
I'm again. I keep using myself. I'm like, oh, because
the hallway he's gonna walk down is gonna scan him.
But no, that was that was ghost protocol. I'm pretty
sure I don't think that was this movie.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
It's sorry. I come back to the thing we talked
about last episode, where it's like there are so much
there's like so much put into the pristine nature of
the stunts in this movie that by the time you
actually get to like the narrative and like trying to
like differentiate between what movie is what? And I mean,

(24:00):
I've watched these movies and a very small span, so yes,
it's it's I am.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
I feel like I'm doing a disservice to people who
are listening. I brought up the plot because now I
need it in front of me. I'm like, I have
my notes, but my notes are mostly on specific scenes
and not going over the core of what the movie is.
But the uh, there's one particular scene I really liked
and you might remember it. I'm pretty sure. It's when

(24:28):
Benji is getting to finally wear a mask. He's putting
on the mask, he's in the chair, the camera kind
of pans around. H you read the trivia, you might
know that is pretty much practical effects. They didn't see
Gi that moment. They had him in front of what
looks like a mirror, but it's that actor on the
other side, and they're able to pan the camera and

(24:50):
so show that actor like adjusting his face basically, and
then it goes around and you see Benji and then
it's that actor sitting there. So there's some cool literal
smoke and mirrors happen with that scene that I thought
was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, So the another reason just to clarify is like,
cause he's going the scene where you're talking about, he
gets to talk, he gets the mask. It's finally like
this like brilliant payoff from both three and four, but
they're kind of like talking about it, and so like
you get to see him do it, and then it's
like a fake out where it's like one of those

(25:23):
scenes where they're like all going around the table sharing
the plan and then but you got to see the
plan being executed as they're talking about it, and then
it ends up being and it's it's kind of like
very sad because like I remember writing it in my notes,
so I was like, oh, cool, Benji gets a mask finally,
and then like I wrote subplot underneath, like the underneath

(25:46):
of it. I just went spoke too soon. Yep.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
It's something that these movies do that I'm really enjoying
when they are they're talking about the plan and showing
the plan is in action as they're discussing it, but
then they find a snag and they show them failing
the mission. It's it's one of my favorite things. And
when we get The Dead Reckoning towards the end of
that movie, there's there's a part where that happens and
Ethan's trying to I think like jump onto the train

(26:13):
or skydive and you just gets sucked out the window
or something. It's like, all right, let's rethink this because
it's not gonna work.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, that is that is Dead Reckoning, I believe.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yeah, that happens in Dead Reckoning.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
All right. I feel like we would be doing a
disservice to this, to this if we did not call
out there isn't so like we've we've talked about it
with like uh, you know three and four specifically where
it's like every there are like certain points in this
franchise where it feels like it's kind of this like

(26:46):
small like little rebirth that kind of becomes like a
part of the DNA of it. And this is the
first time in this the eight movies that we get
Christopher mccruorie, who would go on to Wrecked the rest
essentially of the franchise. Him and Tom Cruise just have

(27:06):
a really solid relationship. Like I mean, uh, I think
they've done a few other movies together, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Looks like he directed Jack Reacher.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
The Too Jack Reachers. Yeah, Jack be Sure, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, a bunch of the This of the Mission Impossibles.
He was writing and producing on the team for Edge
of Tomorrow, which is a great Yeah, one of my favorites.
Oh yeah, he was on the Mummy with Tom Cruise.
He's on top one Mavericks. So yeah, they've they've partnered
quite a bit, and I.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Feel like you can kind of like see that craftsmanship
kind of starting to lay its groundwork here. I think
it definitely crescendos and fallout, and then it gets more
extravagant and feels like it's really like really is able
to breathe with dead reckoning, And I feel like he

(28:00):
has kind of made Not to say that the other two,
like the other four directors haven't, but I really feel
like here this was kind of like the missing piece
that kind of gave it the identity that we think
of when we talk about Mission impossible.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
If you were someone you know is listening to this
podcast right now and you're struggling with suicide, addiction, self harm,
or depression, we encourage you guys to please reach out.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
This is the heartbeat or why we do what we do.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Suicide is currently the tenth leading cause of death in
the United States, and as of this recording, there are
one hundred and thirty two suicides that take place each
and every day on American soil, and when you scale
back internationally, there are eight hundred thousand successful suicides. That
is one death roughly every forty seconds. So if you

(28:51):
were someone you know is struggling, you guys can go
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Speaker 1 (29:09):
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Speaker 4 (29:15):
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Speaker 1 (29:35):
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Speaker 3 (30:00):
He definitely brought it in a direction that set the
tone of how these movies are and when you look
at them totally, particularly from the original trilogy there's just
so there's a shift here, and I feel like it
really finds its footing of where it wants to be
in terms of an action film, in an espionage film,
and it's just in this one in particular. Again, this

(30:22):
is one of my favorites. It's just firing so good.
Like every scene, every action scene. This is also the one.
It's funny when I think about it, it's like, oh,
that plain scene in the beginning where he takes off,
he's hanging off it. That's a huge part of this movie.
That's not even arguably one of the most dangerous stunts,
although it was dangerous. This is also the movie where

(30:42):
they have to infiltrate underwater get to a server. I
forget the specific details, but Tom Cruise has to get underwater,
and they filmed that practically. He was swimming underwater for
quite some time as they're trying to get those shots.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yes, so doing trivia for it. So after an extensive
training for the that underwater scene you're talking about, Tom
Cruise was able to hold his breath underwater for record
breaking six minutes. The record was broken seven years later
during Avatar Way of Water in twenty twenty two when
Kate Winslet was able to stay underwater for seven minutes

(31:20):
and fourteen seconds. In an interview, Cruz revealed that the
breathing exercise he did for the underwater heist sequence sometimes
left him forgetting to breathe while talking.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
My god, that's insane. And then also like one, I
want to look up that exercise because I feel like
being able to hold your breath for a long time
couldn't save your life somedays. So just just a good
skill to tuck away if you need it.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah. I like the fact that, like Cruise is like
just so poignant and so dedicated to this role. Like
that's not the craziest thing. Like, I mean, he was
injured six times during making this movie, Like, and I
gotta like assume. I feel like one of the ones

(32:08):
is like where he's maybe I'm getting mixed up with
Fallout is when he's like building hopping and.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yeah, I think that happens in Fallout because I know
exactly what scene you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, broke his leg, I believe during that scene.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
And I'm just like dude, like, yeah, he came down
hard against a wall jumping from one building to another,
and you can see it and I'm not sure if
this is the take they used or not, but his
ankle just completely goes the wrong way and so he
gets up, he limps past camera before he lets himself
fall because he wanted to make sure they got the shot.
Like the man is a professional putting his body on

(32:46):
the line for these films. It's it's just unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, I love these guys. I love these This movie
is like so freaking entertaining, and like I feel like
we have it really Like I'm just kind of like
looking back over my notes also too, you know when
we talk about like some of the best bike sequences,
Like I feel like you have these like really big

(33:10):
stunts that get overshadowed by some of these like smaller
like just super outrageous fights. But the the theater like
opera scene is one that really stands out to me. Yeah,
the flute gun in this is like probably one of
my favorite gadgets in the entire franchise that we've seen

(33:30):
so far. But for me as a film guy, I
love films that kind of take these like fight sequences
or like Slasher, you know, killing sequences for horror fans
and sets it up against like music that just traditionally
should not work but somehow works, and that's definitely here

(33:55):
in this opera scene.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
It was such a great scene. I have zero notes
it's on the scene. It's because I was so enthralled
just watching it. Like I was like, oh man, there's
like three assassins here and Ethan hunt and then he's
he's like the booth is being attacked and it's being
you know, being raised and lowered with all the lighting
and the sound equipment, and it was just so cool,
like it was a literal dance to all of this

(34:18):
opera music as they're trying to fight each other.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, and like also too, like we you know, uh,
there's a there's a point in here too where it's
like that scene in particular is kind of the like
a turning point where like this film kind of like
ebbs and flows and just kind of goes through like
so many different masks for lack of a better word.

(34:42):
But there's a point in that movie, like shortly afterwards
where it becomes kind of this like buddy comedy kind
of between him and and Peg that I thought was
really interesting that I didn't pick up when the last
time I watched that, but I'm kind of curious like
that like subplot where it's just and Benji, like, how
did you feel about that?

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Well? Benji is one of my favorite moments in this movie,
where he is he stands up for himself and Ethan
wants him to like leave, it's too dangerous. He wants
him to get out and uh, and Benji's just like no,
like I'm staying. You know, you have to let me
stay and I'm not leaving because yeah, Ethan's being actively

(35:25):
hunted right now, he's a fugitive. Benji gets his poor Benji,
because he gets his free tickets to the opera that
he never questions, never thought that there was any issue
with that.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
And then he's given you know, an ear piece and
connected with Ethan and everything. So I love how the
uh both the the the dedication yeah, that Benji has
to Ethan, but also the fact that you can see
he's being polygraphed every single week and he has to
lie and lie successfully to fake out the polygraph to

(35:57):
now be able to yeah, go and stay with him
and work with him. And there are a lot of
really good comedic moments, and I love the banter between
the two of them, and also we get to see
Benji actually get out in the field a little bit
more and take his you know, his action, you know,
to to the fight and be a field agent. That
was really cool.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, Benji's just kind of getting to see him from
part three up to now is a real treat because
there's there's a moment in part six Fallout where him
and Luther are on the boat and they've just taken Owen.

(36:37):
Now Owen Davies is not the right name of the villain,
but Sean Harris's character the leader of the syndicate, and
Benji's like, gotta they gotta go back, and it's just
this moment where it's just like so totally cool and
he's just like all right, you know, just gonna turn it.
I'm like, God, I wish I was that confident, you know.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
I just same here. I Mean I frequently look at
Simon Pegg and I'm like, man, the things I would
do to have your life and your career, but to
be able to Yeah, the confidence building. I love how
he's always like not always, but there are multiple scenes
where he's like behind the wheel of a boat, and
I love just like when they need nautical transport. Benji's

(37:19):
just like the go to person to drive the boat.
It makes me really happy.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's yeah, Benji is like just one of the franchise's
best moments. I just love the kind of growth and
payoff that you get from him as a as a
as a part of the team here in this one.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Absolutely god so, such a cool movie, such a cool
addition for him. So you know, we get Rebecca Ferguson,
who he talked about, Like, this movie sets up so
much cool stuff that we get to see in future
films and definitely stands out. I think is one of
the top ones. And I love our whole ending kind

(37:59):
of alley is they got to get to the Prime
Minister right and talk to him Prime Minister of the
UK and talk about the plan, reveal the plan. They
end up tricking him with you know, with masks and
they press up as different people and it's just it's
a whole multi faceted thing of yeah, getting in figuring

(38:20):
out what's happening, figuring out what how syndicate actually formed,
and getting into that it was an idea birth out
of British intelligence of let's take agents from other countries
who have been disavowed and form our own like anti
intelligence agency that they ended up shutting down, but someone
else took it and ran with it, and that's how

(38:41):
the Syndicate was born.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, Solomon Lane is the is the name of the
villain in this one. That's right, And he I think
to me, like, I love the idea of having the
origins of the Syndicate b just like you said, like,
it's basically these members that had based sickly just kind
of been forgotten and kind of came together and created

(39:06):
this kind of like new organization that's going to be
anti intelligence. They're everywhere and nowhere all at the same time.
Like it's just one of those things that's like really cool.
But it's also you know, I feel like we haven't
so far in these episodes, we haven't really kind of
talked about the fact that this is this was a
TV show in the sixties. You know, this is originally

(39:29):
and believe it or not, the Syndicate actually was a
pull my notes back up the Syndicate the Covert Criminal Operation,
which is featured in the film. They were the actual
regular antagonists for the Mission Impossible series back in the sixties.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
That is cool. This is also I think one of
the or definitely the first instance of when you get
to the end of Ghost Protocol, he's getting a mission
and they mentioned syndicate at the end of Ghost Protocol,
and then that brings you directly into Regnation. So the
following movies are kind of a bit more connected from

(40:09):
from film to film, but I feel like this is
the first one where it directly relates to what Ethan
is kind of being set up to do for the
next movie.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yes, which which is something I found really interesting. And
it kind of makes parts four, five, and six kind
of feel like a connected trilogy, whereas when you look
at you know, one, two, and three, they just kind
of again just kind of flowing with it, you know.
And like Tom Cruise has said in interviews that like,

(40:41):
whedn't he envisioned for this specifically, Like he wanted each direct,
each film, each entry into the series to feel like
it was a director. So when you look at like
John Wu, that film feels Mission Impossible too, feels like
a John Wu film, yep. And when you look at
Part three, it feels very much like a JJ Abrams film.

(41:02):
And here I feel like this is it. This doesn't
exactly feel like a Christopher Quory film because this was
one of his first films that he directed, So it
kind of is not there to the level that we
would see, you know, with The Palma or Wu these
other really established filmmakers. But I feel like the further

(41:24):
into the franchise you get, the more that he kind
of shapes out that identity of like this is who
I am as a director.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Is interesting to I hadn't considered that, but I think
it makes sense that, Yeah, those earlier films definitely kind
of take on the tones of the director, and then
these newer ones have a bit there's there's more of
like a run through thematically of what they are, which
is very cool. You'd mentioned the original Mission Impossible series.

(41:56):
I feel like we should at least name drop them.
Bruce Geller created the original series. He passed in nineteen
seventy eight, and Yeah, we would not be here talking
about these movies if it wasn't for him and his
creation and the original show that aired for seven seasons.
So it's just cool that. Yeah, ran in the seventies

(42:18):
and then it was arrived by ABC for a couple
of years in the late eighties, and then the first
film in nineteen ninety six, and here we are in
twenty twenty five, Like the legacy just keeps on going.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
What I think is really interesting is that in the
original series, for the Syntic it being the kind of
the regular mainstay villain that IMF WOU would go against,
it was actually oftentimes was basically a code name for
American gangsters, which I think is kind of fascinating because

(42:49):
when you look at that feels very much like a
product of its time, Whereas when you feel like when
you kind of look at how advanced we've gotten into technology,
how far we have come, I feel like the syndicate
that they created here very much is a modern retelling.

(43:11):
You know, it's not quite it's not quite that that
American gangster ideology, but as you said, it's kind of
the anti IMF.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah. Absolutely, Any other thoughts are trivia on this film
before we move on over to Dead Reckoning, I do not. Okay, well,
I'll do a quick stop gap here because we are
skipping over fallout, and there is a good reason for that. Josh,
would you like to to clue everyone in on where
they should go to get coverage if they want to

(43:43):
hear our thoughts on mission impossible follow up?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Absolutely so. Back when Fallout came out into theaters, it
was the only film that we had covered up to
that point. So we will we will be re releasing it,
so will be the top of your fees to check
it out. But Ryan Silberstein and myself from Ryan is
a film critic out of Philly as well as the

(44:07):
co host of the podcast The Shame Files. We did
it I think like maybe a week after his initial
theatrical release, so pretty much fresh out of the theater. Thoughts.
I love Fallout. Fallout to me is probably neck and
neck for my favorite one with Part three. If you

(44:29):
checked out our last episode, you know how much I
love Owen Davies. But Fallout is just a just takes
this storytelling that we had here in Rogue Nation just
absolutely elevates it.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Well, does it elevate the storytelling or does it have
Henry Cavill, which which which is it? Because it might
be a little bit of a bias and there you know,
I agree, I think it's it's terrific. My my very
quick hit thoughts on it. Henry Cavill the fight scene
in the bathroom and he has to reload his fists,
so I so great. And then the end of the

(45:02):
movie where they're in a helicopter chase and Tom Cruise
is actually piloting his helicopter and they're filming and capturing it, Like,
those thoughts are so cool. But you can definitely catch
out the full episode about that, like Josh said, re
releasing it, we're pulling it out of the vault, so
you can listen for a limited time. Make sure you
get in and see all their thoughts on that. And yeah,

(45:23):
I'm psyched to get into Dead Reckoning and soon we
will be recording Final Reckoning. We're going to old school. Usually,
I mean Josh and I are old now, we're in
our thirties, so we usually pick a time for record
that's a little earlier in the evening. This one though, nope,
too important. We're going to the theater Thursday night, and
I think our recording is set to start at like

(45:43):
nine thirty or ten pm, so it'll be a late
night and you're gonna get some silly immediate post movie
vibes from us. So I hope you enjoy that.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Which, like I was kind of like thinking about it
yesterday and I was like, man, it's like, this feels
like nostalgic. For those of the guys that don't know.
Dan and I had in a range back in like
twenty eighteen. I think we did it for like eight
months where we would pick a movie in the theaters,
we would go get like similar show times, and we
would come home and we would just record, Yeah, and

(46:15):
this is the first time in ten's Fallout though we've
done that.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, this is this will be fun. And I distinctly remember,
I'm pretty sure like Solo a Star Wars story, we
did that. The original Captain Marvel, we did that. So
those are just a couple examples of some of those
older episodes that you could go listen to it if
you would like. But yeah, agreed, we loved both Love
Mission Impossible, Fallout. It was great. Henry Cavill was a

(46:43):
great character throughout the film. Definitely saw some multi you know,
faceted acts from him. The Halo jump that they do
again practically filmed of Tom Cruise jumping out of a plane.
There's a lot of really cool behind the scenes stuff
that you can look up if you want to see
more about how that was filmed. But extremely impressive seeing
the cameraman walking backwards to the ramp of the plane

(47:05):
and then jumping off with Tom Cruise jumping face first
to kind of follow him down. Just some really cool
elements of filmmaking. A really great movie, and yeah, we
both loved it a lot.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
This is the last thing I will say. I love
Cavell as an actor, but damn you, I wish you
would play more bad guys.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah, definitely a good use of his acting talent. Oh okay,
I have one last thing, And Josh, you may know this.
This movie was being filmed during when reshoots for Justice
League was being filmed, and so that is why you
might notice Henry Cavill's Superman looks a little strange in

(47:48):
Justice League. It's because they were doing reshoots. They had
to Ceegi his mustache out of that movie so that
he could be able to do both at the same time.
So if you haven't noticed that, go back and rewatch
Justice League, and it's something that is once you notice that,
you kind of hyper focus on it.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah, his uh, his mustache and the fact that that
film opens up with like this cgi mustache. I was like, man,
it's like he just looks like he's like got that
like like just a gum like right here, and he's
just like try to get it off of his gums
and you know, or maybe he's got like a piece
of seaweed that's up there. But it's pretty bad.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Yeah, yep, all right, So going on to Mission impossible,
Dead Reckoning. So this movie came out. When did this
movie came out? What? What year did this movie release?

Speaker 1 (48:39):
This movie came out July twenty twenty three.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
Okay, I didn't think it was that long ago. So
we're a couple of years pasted it. This movie similar
to Rogue Nation. I was just enjoying inviting with it.
And it's two hours and forty three minutes. So I
have ten bullet points of notes and that's it, but
I have a lot more. We just watched this movie

(49:05):
last night, so it is much more fresh in my memory.
And man, good great movie. I love this movie. It
was so much fun.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Do I hit you with my hot takes now.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Go for it. Just just tear apart everything I just said,
Tell me, tell me everything you feel.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
It's it's fine, it's it's it's like on par with
like Ghost Protocol for me, I think. But also in
like in my defense, it's one of those movies that
originally was set up to be a part one of
two part story, so like it feels kind of weird

(49:46):
to like just judge it based on its own I
think it does a good job at setting up what
will hopefully be awesome payoffs in final Reckonings. And there
are some great callbacks to like previous entries into the
series that we haven't seen in a long time. So
there are things that I really appreciate about this film.

(50:08):
I just feel like it's a little bit it doesn't
always warrant its length. I guess kind of my big
deal with it.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
All right, I can appreciate that it was funny to
me how we got flashbacks in this movie of things
that never actually happened, or at least that we never saw.
Like it set up flashbacks of our main bad guy,
Gabriel killing this woman, and they set this up as
like this is what brought Ethan into the IMF. But
they show the flashback in black and white as if

(50:36):
they're showing as scenes from an earlier movie, but they're not.
They just filmed new scenes to build this backstory for Ethan,
which I thought was pretty funny instead of setting up
something that like actually happened in the first Mission Impossible movie.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
What I think it's hilarious is that the actor playing
a young Ethan Hunt in that movie has hair of
Impossible to Tom Cruise, and not very short hair like
Tom Cruise. Because I mean, even when you go back
and do you watch things like rain Man, or like Cocktail,

(51:13):
or like movies like Top Gun, even like movies that
were from that era where this movie like is supposedly
taking place like they went with two thousands, Tom Cruise,
like You had One Job.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
It's supposed to be even pre date the original movie
and be his backstory of how he got into IMF.
This movie also sets up just how hetty Ethan Hunt is,
and I think it's one of my favorite details that
the scene of him he's wearing the mask, he's breaking
into the IMF, he's going through security. He enters the
room where they're having the security meeting, and Kittridge is

(51:51):
there and they're discussing all of these different, you know,
top secret things about the keys and the submarine and everything,
and then Tom gases the room, knocks everybody out except Kittridge,
and then pulls the mask off and talks to Kittridge.
My wife pointed out Tom Cruise could have just talked
to Kittridge at home, he could have just showed up

(52:13):
anywhere else. But he wanted to make a point that
he was able to infiltrate what was probably the most
secure meeting in the world and take out all of
these top IMFN espionage guys. It's just it was so perfect,
It was so wonderfully mission impossible, and I loved it.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yeah, that's a good point that I did not even consider.
But I have to agree with your wife, like that
could have been something I could have been done. But like,
also like I think that meeting in particular also brings
up like one of my previous complaints is that, like,
there are so many things that are established in that

(52:55):
meeting that never have payoffs, and Carrie Elways is a
great example of that. You know, and also as a
fellow comic book nerd also super weird to see Peter
from the Deadpool movies here in a serious role. Just
go throw that out there while I while I have
the air.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
I'm gonna have to go back and double check and
double watch scene. That sounds awesome.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Yeah, yeah, So like, I don't know. I think that's
kind of one of those things too that like, you know,
I don't know, Like how do you feel about how
do you feel about AI being the big bad here?

Speaker 3 (53:34):
So this is hysterical to me because again I had
to go back and think about how this movie fits
in in where we were, because AI in how we
know it now, really took off about two years ago,
when in terms of like the chat GPT era, it's
always been around, We've always had it prior to that.

(53:55):
There's an entire Terminator series about the risks of it.
So having an AI kind of takeover not a news
story by any means, but it felt very prophetic that
this movie when it was being written, it did not
we did not have the level of AI takeover that
it feels like we're having today and seeing it, I

(54:17):
just it hits a little too close to home, I think,
And it's a little too worrisome to think about some
of these you know, agents becoming self aware and the
entity you know taking over and being able to computationally
predict the future based on probability. It's it's just insane,
But I like this. It was cool to have ethan

(54:41):
kind of meet his match in like a machine and
have this investible, invisible like ghost in the machine thing
that he's fighting against.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, I think it's kind of one of those elements
that I don't feel like has the payoff quite yet,
because like it is, is kind of revealed the further
into the film you get, the more that the AI
or the entity kind of transitions from being the big

(55:10):
threat to it being Gabriel, and so I'm hoping that
there's a bigger payoff within that. It also kind of
feels like the cruciform key was also kind of that
rabbit's foot approach where you didn't quite know what it
opened yep, And I was kind of okay with that

(55:30):
because it felt like a good callback to it, But like,
I don't know for me, like the AI stuff, Like
I think it had cool moments like where the entity
kind of interrupts the call as Benji's like trying to
guide him around the city, and like that was a

(55:53):
cool moment, But I don't know. AI being a big
bad is kind of I feel like because of the Terminator,
I feel like it's set the bar and like it
just feels like every other movie that tries to hit
on that just feels really cliche. How would you guys
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(56:16):
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Speaker 2 (56:41):
And you guys can tell us which Nicholas Cage movie
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Speaker 3 (57:13):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me again to bring it
back to Fast and Furious, the one where they have
to like hunt down God's Eye, like the program that
can basically surveil the world and look at everything. And
this isn't a god's eye per se, but it is
a technology that is able to hack into, you know,
virtually any camera, any microphone like it can be anywhere

(57:34):
and everywhere at once. I can totally appreciate where you're
coming from where. It's a little tiresome on some of
the sci fi media that we've had, it's a little overdone.
I do think they did a good job in this though.
And it's funny once you realize that Gabriel is sort
of at the whim of the AI. It's like our
bad guy doesn't really exist, but who the human face

(57:56):
of this entity now is is literally working for the entity.
And the fact that the entity was making predictions saying,
you know, yeah, like you're gonna be here, you're gonna
do this. And this scene in the airport of Benji
trying to open up and diffuse the bomb. I love
that scene so much, especially because I can totally sympathize

(58:20):
with Luther as he's trying to coordinate Ethan and Benji
at the same time without letting Benji or Ethan rather
know what's happening, and he's communicating to both the both
of them, and then he's trying to answer riddles and
then he like asks Ethan one of the riddles with
no context to try and get his point of view.
I really enjoyed that that whole scene, plus you had

(58:42):
the other agents kind of chasing them through the airport.
The whole airport sequence was just great for me. How
are you feeling about it when you were watching it?

Speaker 1 (58:50):
I really liked the airport scene. It's one of the
more entertaining moments in this movie. And I don't want
to feel like I'm like totally like pissing in this
the cheerios this movie, but I really did like it.
I liked the addition of Grace in this movie. Haley.
Haley Atwell does a fantastic job in this movie. I'm

(59:13):
really excited. She's probably the ones like element of this
movie that I really want to see kind of where
they take it in Final Reckoning. But I loved this scene.
I loved kind of that cat and mouse element that
it kind of felt like a callback again to the

(59:33):
original one where you did have the those elements.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Yeah, they definitely I think balanced the comedic nature with
the action and the stakes in this movie, which the
steaks are are very high, and we see some of
the consequences later in the film, which I was not
happy about, but they had to, you know, they had
to give you a gut punch one way or another.

(59:59):
But the airport sequence and they casually tell Ethan after
the fact and everything, like, oh, we're trying to diffuse
a nuclear bomb, and he's like what, Like why would
why don't you tell me this? And Luther's like, we
didn't want to bother you with it, and Ethan just says, listen,
a nuclear bomb is something you bother me with immediately.

(01:00:20):
And I love that scene and that banter between them
and Benji kind of freaks out because the AI knows
his last name and that is one of the uh,
one of the clues and messages on the bomb. He
anticipated that Benji was gonna be there to try and

(01:00:40):
diffuse it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah, And I think from like that perspective, like it
definitely makes it definitely makes it more intriguing to me,
because you know, that's something that probably just kind of
glossed over on the initial viewing. Like I've seen this
movie twice and I kind of feel like I had
more of a a bigger appreciation for it this time around,

(01:01:03):
but I definitely feel like my initial like healings for it,
like definitely still stand. But yeah, I agree, Like I
think there that airport scene is like one of the
best better scenes in this one. Also too, I really
liked the way that the white Russian character whose actress's

(01:01:27):
name Vanessa Kirby, That's what I was thinking of. I
think she's better used in this one that she is
in the original and Fallout. I think for Fallout kind
of felt like a taste, whereas this one I felt
like kind of she was used really well. I think
also with that, I love the train sequence because the

(01:01:47):
train sequence just kind of felt like it was just
like another curve ball, like every time you thought you
knew where the narrative was going, like it just kind
of threw it a curve and it really did like that.
I thought that was like kept me on the edge
of my seat, like the entire time, I'm like, oh, Kittrick,
whoa like l way is like you know, you kind
of just kept guessing on like who was gonna be

(01:02:09):
like involved.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
The train sequence is great and I'm gonna bring this
back a little bit to earlier in the film, but
I do want to mention I remember the train sequence
being the finale of the movie, and it is, But
we get to the train, there's an hour left of
the movie. Like they spend so much time chasing this
train and trying to get on board.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Yeah, it's a it's kind of nuts how long we
spend on this train. Like in full honesty, again, coming
back to my additional thoughts, was like, this movie does
not always warrant it, Like, I like how this movie
kind of keeps manipulating my expectations, but we spend a

(01:02:54):
little bit too long on the train.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
Well, that that's the entity that's that's its sensing what
you're going to expect and then adjust the film accordingly.
Wouldn't that be crazy? I mean, like, choose your own
adventure series like Netflix has done sometimes sort of does this.
But imagine a movie that can kind of read your
reactions and emotions and then adjust the movie based on
how you're reacting to it. And the future is going

(01:03:17):
to be wild.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I don't know if I like that or not.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Yeah, I'd be open to it, but I think it'll
be curious to see. You talked about some of the
comedy in this movie when Grace and Ethan are on
the run and he's getting a new car, and it
kind of shows the really nice car he's gonna get,
but then the yellow Fiat ends up pulling out, so
they have to get into the tiny Fiat. Ethan goes

(01:03:45):
through it in this car chase scene because he's handcuffed
while driving. They have to they switch seats, or he
gets in. She's driving, they switch seats. He's driving. Now
he gets handcuffed to the steering wheel. He has to
remove the entire steering whee before he gets hit by
a train. Like he has just been so through it
at this point, and I'm just maybe I'm I'm projecting

(01:04:08):
a little bit when I watch these movies, but I'm
just like, how much is Ethan getting paid? And why
does he keep doing these things? He could retire and
live his life in peace and not worry about it,
but they talk about it. I think Rebecca Ferguson one
of the movies talks about like, you you have this
need to be there because if you're not out, you know,

(01:04:29):
handling these terrible situations you're you don't know who would be.
So it has to be you. You have to know that
someone is watching out for the world.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
And there's a note there's like a touch of that
in this film where they're kind of all going over
the plane plan or the train plan and they talk
about how Grace is basically like now a ghost, and
you know, he kind of talks about how like you know,

(01:04:59):
he was given this, like you know, him, Luther, and
Benji were all kind of given this option to you know,
be ghosts or you know, kind of serve for the
greater good. And Benji has a line here says, you know,
we we don't do this because we have to do
this because we want to. And I think it's kind
of one of those moments where it's like, okay, yeah,

(01:05:22):
it kind of makes it a little bit more receptible
now where it's like, I mean, even going back to
part three where like he Ethan was like I'm done
with this, you know, I'll train and I'll teach, and
but you know he gets suckered back into it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
Yeah, you just can't walk away. And there's there's a
love for the job and the work and the fierce
dedication to serving his country that I think must be
there to kind of fuel him as he goes through
but not without sacrifice. He had to no longer be
with his wife Julia, who we saw at the end

(01:06:00):
to fall Out. She was, you know, volunteering and working
at that camp that they ended up at. And then
of course Jessica ferguson our dear Ilsa is killed by
Gabriel on the bridge the way that I was just
so sad. I was hoping she would survive. I forgot
if she died or not, and it just it just

(01:06:21):
took me out. I'm so sad that we get no
more of that character.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
I watched this movie in like art mm hmm, and
there was a there was a moment where when Ilsa
is is killed by Gabriel. I had to stop and
like turn it off the movie on us, Like Nope,
I cannot be sad because you know, she's only in

(01:06:47):
this movie for for three She's only in it for
you know, three movies, and you know, but every time
she's just such a crowd favor, like she just has
such a good report or with Hunt that like when
she finally does ultimately meet her demise, like it, it
hits real hard and they kind of hint at it

(01:07:11):
in Fallout, but it's a it's revealed to be a
fake out, and so you're like, oh, like you're waiting
for that to kind of repeat itself, and then like
the cameras like panning up and a round, and the
music's hitting like all of these like super somber notes,
and you're just like, no, I think this is for real.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
This is for real. Damn it so so sad. But
we only get to warn her for a little bit
because then the mission continues and we are thrown not
long after that into our very long train sequence. It's
previously discussed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Yeah, I will going back to the the Fiazz scene,
like I really I think the the the car chase
scene in this one was also pretty well done, Like
to me, like, it's not the necessarily the big stunt
submission impossible, but it's like the smaller like stunts that
kind of, you know, remind you of the action movies

(01:08:05):
you grew up on, and I think that's definitely one
of them.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
Yeah, I agree, And I thought that the car scene
was great. One of my favorite moments is, of course
Tom Cruise gets on a motorcycle. I feel like he's
he has to get on one contractually. In each of
these movies, but he misses his train because Gabriel has

(01:08:29):
taken over the front locomotive and is just making it
go NonStop, disabling all of the brakes and everything. So
it hits the turn that he was going to jump
on much faster and sooner than he anticipated, and is
up to Benji to find him a new route to
get on the train and find him a new route.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
He does, Yeah, yeah, Benji. Benji's stalling towards the end
of it is really really funny.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
I felt so stressed first of all, watching Benji put
his car into auto self driving mode, and I'm like,
you're going up against an AI that can take over
anything connected to the Internet. What are you doing? But
fortunately that works out. I love that he doesn't tell
Tom Cruise his plan and just keeps him going up
and up and up the mountain. And I don't know

(01:09:17):
if you talked with your wife at all about this,
but when we were on our way to the theater
to see this movie, we were proposing, Okay, why is
Tom Cruise jumping off a mountain on a motorcycle? What
do you think? What is the purpose? Because the trailer
never tells you why the stunt is happening. It just
shows you the stunt. Where so I said, I think

(01:09:38):
he needs to infiltrate a base and he's not going
to be able to get in by plane, but he
has to parachute in, and so that's why he has
to do that. But I also knew the train sequence
was going to be a big stunt because when it crashes,
that's a practical effect. And jokingly, I was like, what
if he has to jump off to get to the
train which is then going to crash and he has

(01:09:59):
to get off the train. And turns out that that
is exactly what it happened. So it was funny to
be able to call that ahead of time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
No, my wife is not a Tom Cruise fan, so
I watch all of these by myself.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
That's all right, that's okay, we we can forgive her.
I wouldn't say I'm a fan either. I just respect
what the guy does for cinema, everything else that he
does in his personal life. Complete. Yeah, not not into it,
but his movies. Yeah, I'm into his movies.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Uh, well, I might be into his movies too, be
as I was talking with one of my friends the
other day and he's a huge Tom Cruise fan and
uh Letterbox will give you stats if you pay for
like one of their things, and they kind of break
it down by like, you know, actors that you've seen
like in most in movies this year. And you know,

(01:10:48):
I've been on Letterbox for five years and because I,
you know, regularly watch Nicholas Cage movies, He's Nicholas Cage
is always my top one. And by the end of
the year, it's gonna be Tom Cruise.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
That's incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
That is funny.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
My one gripe with this film, and it's not with
the movie itself, it's with the marketing. So I made
sure we have a giant Imax screen near where I live.
And I don't go there all that often because I'm
part of the AMCA list and we can get in
and not to pay extra for tickets. But every once
in a while the movie will be released and will
be in the Imax giant format and we'll go in

(01:11:26):
and see it. So this movie was advertised. I've learned
the difference between filmed for Imax versus filmed with Imax cameras,
and so I paid close attention to the differentiation. And
I now know I look up and IMDDB usually has this.
It shows you the aspect ratio and I look for

(01:11:47):
that full Imax aspect ratio, which there are two to
look at. One is a little bit expanded and one
is the really tall ratio. So this movie I expected,
at the very least for the bike jump, it was
going to expand to be that full tall Imax ratio,
and it was not. It was just the regular wide
screen and I was so disappointed that we weren't getting

(01:12:09):
you know, I paid extra for these tickets and we
weren't getting that experience. So I have since let that go.
I still love the stunt, I still love the movie,
but there was just a moment in that Imax theater
I was like, this is literally not what I paid
for and why did I come see it in this
theater when I could have gone to my local Dolby
at AMC and see it there. So that's my one
issue with the film.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
I will say my last issue that I'll bring up
in this one is the character Paris, who is played
by Palm Clementief. I don't know if I'm saying that,
probably not, but most people will know her as Mantis
from Guardian to the Galaxy and she has like next

(01:12:56):
to like no, she just kind of pops up in things.
I'm kind of curious, Like it's kind of alluded to
that her and Gabriel were working together, but like it's
never like definitively said. And I like she we see
her die at the end, but like, also she's in
the marketing for the new ones, So I just kind
of like, I like, what is her purpose here? Like

(01:13:21):
I feel like every other character has purpose except for her.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
Yeah, I mean I think that she was another link
in the chain of the entity, knows what's gonna happen
and kind of predicts to Gabriel of her betraying him
eventually and he trying to kill her, and she needed
to defend herself. I like her character.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
I thought she was cool.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
I thought she was pretty badass. But I do agree
if we're gonna have her moving forward, it's curious to
see how that kind of plays into the larger picture
of these movies.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Agreed. Also, I'm kind of curious how you felt about
like all of like the side angles to them, just
like going over my notes what you're talking I was like,
there's anything else I want to talk about it, Like
the side camera notes because this is like, you know,
that doesn't necessarily feel like a Maccuori kind of characteristic,
but it just feels like it's very unique to this film.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Can you do you have an example of like what
the side camera is of like a scene that you
you mean, because I'm not sure if I'm visualizing it correctly.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
So like there are like so some of the way
that like there's like the camera fluidity, you know. I
think one of the examples is like when they're kind
of laying out the plane or sorry, the train plan,
when you like look at some of the visuals, like
the camera doesn't go like traditional, but it kind of
has this like maybe forty five degree kind of fluidity

(01:14:47):
that it moves to it and I I'd probably have
to go back and like rewatch it again. But they like, oh,
this is what I'm talking about, or this is what
I'm talking about. Like it's sure it happens maybe you
like three or four times in the movie, but it's
just a really interesting creative choice.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
Yeah, I think it did not stand out to me
in the way that it did, but I did like
the cinematography of this movie overall. I thought it worked.
I loved when the train is crashing at the end,
they had a camera mounted on the side and they
followed it as it went down over the bridge. I
thought that scene was really cool. So definitely the mix

(01:15:26):
up of how the camera is actually set up was cool.
I'm gonna have to go back and look at some
of these like angled camera angles. So that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
All right, Well, I'm gonna hit you with some quick trivia.
It was cool since we are crunching on time, the
frequent so the frequent delay is caused by COVID nineteen
Balloon to the budget from two hundred and ninety one million,
making it the most expensive Mission Impossible movie, surpassing Fallout's
budget of one hundred and seventy eight million, the most
expensive of Tom Cruise's career, again surpass Fallout, and the

(01:16:01):
most expensive film ever produced by Paramount, surpassing Transformers The
Last Night back in twenty seventeen with for one hundred
and seventeen million. The insurance company Chubb originally gave Paramount
only five point four million dollars for the delay, arguing

(01:16:21):
that the cast and crew could still fulfill their duties
to the production despite being effected with COVID nineteen. Paramount
sued Chubb in twenty twenty one, and the two companies
settled in twenty twenty two. Twenty twenty three, Chubb gave
Paramount an additional seventy one million payout for the COVID delays,
reducing the film's budget to two hundred and twenty million,

(01:16:44):
which still makes it the most expensive film for Cruise,
Paramount and the franchise. While filming in Italy, twelve people
on set tested positive for COVID, and as a result,
when filming resumed in UK, Tom Cruise personally paid five
hundred thousand pounds for an old cruise ship for the

(01:17:05):
cast and crew to isolate.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
On Wow that I had never heard about. That's insane
for a cruise ship for the crew, cast and the crew.
That's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
I want to put some good vibes out there because
I think one of the tabloid stories that got associated
with this one is like that leaked audio of like
Tom Cruise like flipping out because like people like broke
COVID protocol, which I mean, you know rightfully so like,
but it often gets associated with this movie and him

(01:17:38):
kind of being a butthole for lack of a better word.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
I mean, we've we've seen that before for lesser things
like Christian Bale freaking out about the guy who was
in his eyesight eyeline during a scene, right and he's
yelling at him and it happens, and you know, look,
it was a tough time for a lot of people.
I'm sure from Tom Cruise's perspective, someone breaking COVID protocol

(01:18:06):
could potentially shut down their entire production for who knows
how long I can get being a little touchy and
frustrated about that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Yeah, so this is one that kind of breaks my
heart to report, But I don't. I'm gonna say this
and that I want you to think about how this
could have made the movie different. So I'm probably gonna
mispronounce this same but Essay Morales plays Gabriel in this movie.
The original actor that was supposed to play Gabriel in

(01:18:36):
this movie was Nicholas Holt aw Man, which I don't
know how you like. Given the fact that Ethan and
Gabriel actually have history, how would the dynamic of this
that's the actual narrative be different because Holt is like

(01:18:57):
thirty six years old, Like, you can't have that thirty
year gap there.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
Yeah, that would be a little interesting because, yeah, he
would be a literal child like when these original scenes
were being shown. But man, I think that God would
have been cool, but would not have made since just
narratively looking at the age, so it would have had
to age him up quite a bit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Yeah, and he dropped out due to filming on season
two of WHU Lose the Great. When Hunt is listening
to the taped mission briefing in the beginning of the film,
it is actually just Tom Cruise reacting to nothing, as
the dialogue on the recording had not been written yet.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
That's hysterical. I remember reading those we were watching the movie.
I can't believe it lines up so well.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
We talked our previously. I mean, Dan and I are
both really big nerds when it comes to movies, and
so obviously we both know Haley atwell from her time
in the MCU playing Peggy Carter. She had actually written
off the genre pictures like this and the MCU. She

(01:20:18):
changed her mind, however, when she was offered a part
of Grace because of the character's duplicity and growth. And
I'm glad she did because she's one of my favorite
parts in this movie, and she's one of the parts
that I'm very excited to kind of see how they
expand her in Final Reckoning, especially with the absence of
Ilsa in that one.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
Yeah, I think she's going to step up into a
larger role and have a lot more to do in
this new film. And it was wonderful seeing her her
work in this movie and seeing everything that she did.
My wife pointed out, she was like, say what you
will about Tom Cruise, He's really good at picking like
amazing badass women to star in his movies. And I

(01:20:59):
think I have to agree with that. I know that
that is, you know, the director, the casting director, those
decisions are made. But I have to imagine Tom Cruise
has quite a bit of say and pull in these
movies in terms of who he's co starring against.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
For sure in My last one. And then I have
one other thing I want to do before we end here.
My last one is gonna be trivia wise, is that
this is the first film in the series since Mission
Impossible two. It does not involve J. J. Abrams, the

(01:21:32):
first since Mission Impossible three that was not produced by
Bad Robot Abrams production company. And also like I talked
about how this movie has like a lot of good
callbacks to some of the earlier films. One of them,
specifically is a call up call back to the first film,
and as the scene where Ethan is doing the magic

(01:21:56):
trick with the cruciform key, it's a great callback to
the I really wish they would kind of like left
at like close up magic element in the movies, but
Tom Cruise was so insistent on performing the magic trick
with two halves of the key practically, despite failed nubris
failed takes, the desired effect had ultimately achieved was achieved

(01:22:22):
with little to no practical no visual effects, so kind
of beating halfway there, that's incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
I took down in my own notes, how much did
Tom Cruise practice close up magic? Seems to be quite
a bit, and then all caps, I wrote, oh right,
he did that in an earlier movie, So that was
a cool callback to see that happening. Which also makes
me wonder is ethan magician? Does he do birthdays when
he's not on missions? Like how much time did he

(01:22:54):
spend perfecting this close up magic routine that he can
do in front of bad guys?

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
Just like it? And it just comes out for bad
guys like I have any other type of person. It's
just like I don't know, can't come out, uh sma
lest My last question for you, Dad is before this,
since this is the final episode before heading into Mission
Impossible eight, the Final Reckoning, what is your current ranking
of this series?

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
Oh man? Ranking of this series? So in terms of
do you want me to go through and like rank
all of them, like, what are you looking for?

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
In terms of let's let's let's rank them from least
favorite to most favorites.

Speaker 3 (01:23:36):
Okay, so I think my most favorite is going to
be Rogue Nation, So that's number five. Let me h,
let me type these as I say them, so I
don't lose the crack. Uh So, Rogue Nation. Then let's go,
let's go fall Out, you know, let's let's make this easy.
Let's go five, six, seven, So Dead Reckoning. Then let's

(01:23:58):
go back to four. We got Ghost Protocol in there.
So these newer ones right off the bat, they're my favorite,
no doubt. So then we get to the original trilogy
and I think probably in descending order, I'm going to
go three, two, one, So yeah, Rogue Nation definitely my
favorite of these with the first one being my least favorite.

(01:24:23):
And I think that is a comment on just when
I was introduced to these movies in twenty fifteen, going
back and just seeing some of the datedness of the
original the cinematography and the acting, and these new ones
just totally hits my vibe and I love everything about them.
But what about you? How would you rank these films?

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
So I will go my least favorite to my most favorite.
I will put two Dead last.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
You know what, as much as I love Too, it's
second to last for me, so I can't really defend
that one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Hot take at number six. I'll put Ghost Protocol five dead,
Reckoning for OG three will be a Rogue Nation, two
will be m I three, and then fall Out will
be my number one. Again.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Henry Cavill. You put Henry Cavill in any any other one,
and that probably shoots up to your one. You're you're
not even aware you're making the decision. You just see
Superman and you go, that's my favorite. That's pc He's Superman.
No other movie can do better.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Nope, Nope, Well, I guess we'll find out in a
couple of weeks what we win. Soups Takes to the
flight again.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
But oh man, I am looking forward to that so
hesitant to ask this question for you real quick? Do
you have any predictions for the final reckoning or anything
that you hope might happen or think might happen, or
you just want to kind of go and blind and
see what what occurs.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
I want to go and blind. But my one thing
that I want for Ethan is retirement and not death.
Like legitimately, this guy has been through the Ringer and
I just want him to have peace. That's that's like
all I want. Like maybe maybe him and Grace just
kind of go off and you know, have little am

(01:26:14):
I babies and you know, that's that's I don't know that.
It's like I want, I want the best for for Ethan,
you know, after thirty years, like just give him peace,
like don't give the cop don't give us the cop
out and kill him off. But how about you?

Speaker 3 (01:26:29):
Yeah, I I also want peace for Ethan. I want
peace for the whole team. I don't want there to
be major deaths in this movie. I think if they
were going to kill off a legacy character, Luther might
make the most sense because he's been there from day one, right,
losing him would be such a gut punch, not only
to the audience but to Ethan as a character. I

(01:26:50):
also don't think Benji is safe. I think Benji might
get into some trouble as well. But ideally, I uh I.
I don't don't want our heroes to die. I want
to see them succeed. I want to see them put
in some precarious positions but ultimately come out on the
other side and then decide to be able to walk
away from this life and live happily ever after. That's

(01:27:13):
what I'm rooting for.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
Yeah, I won all of that too, So well, you
guys cant join us this Thursday on YouTube. It's going
to be YouTube dot Com for Slash victims and villains.
We'll be going live about ten pm, kind of jumping
into spoilers and non spoilers alike as well. So that's
going to be it all of your dan Where can

(01:27:36):
people find you online?

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
Well, you can find me at my newly revitalized letterboxed account.
I am de Rock sixty four over there. I'm slowly
digitizing my ticket stub books, so going back in time,
adding in dates and movies and ratings and all that.
So that is an ongoing project. There are many hundreds
of tickets to go through there. You can also find
me over at techwraptor dot net if you want to

(01:27:59):
check me out writing about games, previews, reviews. I just
went to Packs East in Boston recently and I got
some cool previews coming out of there and some good
interviews with developers, including an interview that should be going
live soon that I met with the creative art directors
on the Dune Awakening video game that comes out in June,

(01:28:20):
and we're pretty psyched about it. So it was a
great conversation, really cool interview, and that should be going
live in not too long.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
It's awesome. Well, you guys can find me on my
other podcasts every Wednesday, six pm Eastern Standard Time. It's
called a Biscusing where we talk about the relationship between
horror movies and mental health. You guys can also check
out my letterbox as well, Captain Nostalgia, and you guys
can check out Victims and Villains wherever you guys get

(01:28:48):
your podcasts from. We're go to Victims and Villains dot
net where you can get more podcasts from us, as
well as movie reviews and most importantly our Mental Health
Resource Library. Until next time, remember stack classy, drop that
nine off of your.

Speaker 4 (01:29:09):
Spit those pills out of your mouth, leave the cun
out of your.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
Hand, and know you are loved.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
You are alive, You're not alone, don't be afraid and
more

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Mission: Impossible (Rogue Nation & Dead Reckoning) | Episode #476

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mission: Impossible (Rogue Nation & Dead Reckoning) | Episode #476