Mission: Impossible (Three & Ghost Protocol) | Episode #475 - Victims and Villains

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Your mission should you choose to accept. Another episode of
Victims and Villains with Josh and Dan talking about Mission
Impossible three and Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
You all.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Lies?

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Shoot you all the name to me? We are only

(00:46):
halfway through this adventure by the time we finished recording
this episode, which feels insane that we're getting eight of
these movies over the course of thirty years. But we're
here to talk Part three and Part four, and man,
what a ride these two films work.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I am kind of curious, Like I wanted to bring
this up on the last episode, but I'm kind of curious.
Did you ever think that? Like when Tom Cruise stepped
in to play Ethan Hunt in ninety six for Mission Impossibly,
He's like, you know what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna
be done this for the next thirty years. It's going
to define my career.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I I would say, I want the secret that Tom
Cruise has unlocked for youthfulness and good health and physicality.
I think the secret is one being a multi millionaire
and to take jobs where your full time job is
to get in shape and stay in shape, and you

(01:42):
can get a trainer and a nutritionist and this entire
team around you to just maintain your physical fitness. It's
it's like any professional athlete. Like I'm from New England,
so I followed Tom Brady a lot on the Patriots,
and I was like, man, wish I could be like him.
And it's like, literal job is to remain in peak

(02:03):
physical fitness and just focus on that full time. And
that's pretty great. But yeah, the first movie nineteen ninety six,
so I was five years old. I think you were
probably around the same age was I. It was look,
I didn't enter the Mission Impossible universe until like twenty fifteen.

(02:23):
I was a very late comer to this whole series.
But yeah, we talked about Tom Cruise. I just turned
thirty four last week. He was around that age when
he filmed the first movie, and I got I hope
that I find the same level of success and implied
happiness and fulfillment that he has been able to have

(02:45):
for thirty plus years through his career.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
It's kind of crazy because we were talking about this
before we started recording. I think everything passed like four.
A lot of the narratives kind of just run together. Yes,
but you remember the big stunt where you remember action
sequences about it, and it almost kind of feels like

(03:09):
a more grounded take on Fast and Furious, where those
things just kind of got bigger and bigger, and you know,
the family kind of expands with each production. Like that's
kind of what Mission Impossible feels like in a nutshell,
is like every big stunt has to top what has
kind of come before it.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I would argue Fast and Furious is the true Mission Impossible,
because what they take on in those movies some more
impossible than what Tom Cruise has to do in these ones.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I'll give you that. I gotta get behind that.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
But remembering the set pieces, I will tell you it
is a good thing. I have my notes in front
of me for Mission Impossible three because I remember Philip
seymour Hoffman. I remember the Rabbit's foot. If you ask
me what the rabbit's foot is, probably couldn't tell you
off the top of my head. But most of that
movie is just a blur to me. Now. I remember

(04:10):
Tom Cruise running through Shanghai. We'll talk about that, but yeah,
like there were some amazing moments, But tell me to
sit down and explain the plot of this movie without
any prior research. I watched this movie like four days ago,
and I would be hard to put together exactly what
happened in this film. It is. It is like The

(04:30):
Silence and Doctor Who. It's like I'm watching it and
I'm like, this is great, this is awesome, and then
the moment my eyes go off it it's like my
brain is just filled in with other information.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I think that's that's that's my experience with Mission Impossible
too as well, not the second one, but the series
as a whole. To clarify it, they definitely like they're
entertaining movies, but they feel a lot like some of
the leaders Transformers movies, where the plot is very intricate,
it's very complex, and you're when you're sitting and you're

(05:03):
watching it and you're engross in that world, it's really
easy to like follow it and know the story beats
to it. But when you sit down and you like
have to talk about it, like I'm in the same
position you're in, Like I can tell you there are
I know that. You know it's a revenge story for
the third ones, well, we'll get into it. You know

(05:24):
it's a revenge story there there after the Rabbit's Foot,
I cannot for the life of me tell you what
the rabbit's foot actually is and it's my favorite. I
will also clarify to say this number three is my
favorite in the franchise, So okay, if that tells you anything.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
All right, number number three was great. I feel like,
well you told me just as we are getting on.
This one is directed by JJ Abrams. I somehow missed
that in the title sequence. I did not realize that
h jj Abrams is like one of my favorite directors.
Obviously directed the Star Trek films, he directed The Force

(06:02):
Awakens and has just done a lot of really amazing stuff.
One of the most visible directors I feel like in
Hollywood at the moment. It makes sense because there is
an actor and I will look up his name, but
he is in the party sequence in the beginning of
the movie, and if you are a fan of the

(06:22):
show Heroes, you will recognize him as Matt Parkman. If
you know the lore, you know that this actor is
friends with JJ Abrams and appears in a lot of
his projects, mostly as a cameo. In two thousand and
nine Star Trek. He is the step dad of JT
of Captain Kirk, who in the beginning calls in the

(06:44):
car on the phone and yelling at him for stealing
the car, so you only get his voice, but he's
in that movie nonetheless, so I was like, oh, hey,
it's that guy, Like that's funny. He's usually in JJ
Abrams movies. And then come to find out this was
a JJ Abrams movie, so it makes sense. And just
looking back on the directing, the cinematography, it has a

(07:07):
lot of the like quintessential JJ Abrams beats I feel like,
and it just makes a lot of sense. At the
moment I realized that as a director, I was like, Yeah,
this movie, this movie totally fits his style and is
in line with uh yeah, what he is known for
these days.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, I feel like there are certain directors working that
just have a signature, like visual style to them. Michael
Bay is a great example to where everything looks like
almost kind of like explodey, but also at the same
time like has this like almost chrome like quality to it,
to where everything kind of feels like shiny and new.

(07:43):
And Abrams kind of has that a little bit. But
it's the way that like he has the camera move
around and the way that he kind of sets up
certain action sequences. It just it feels like an Abrams movie.
I don't really know, like if you've never seen a
JJ Abrams movie, I don't know necessarily how to explain
it to you. But when you like watch like Mission

(08:05):
Impossible three, then you turn around and watch Star Trek
and you know, Force Awakens, you kind of have an
understanding of like the story beats he has as a
director and as a storyteller and how he sets up
shots and you know, shoots action sequences and does all

(08:25):
of these things. And yeah, the actor, by the way
you're thinking about, is a gentleman by the name of
Greg Grunberg. Yes, he's such a great character actor. He
just kind of pops up in like a bunch of
random shit he does.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
And you know, I'm gonna have to look at some
of the other stuff he's done because I haven't really
seen him take on a full role since he was
in Heroes, So I'm going to see what he's about
to because he's he's a very good actor. I was like,
I like seeing him when he comes up in things.
Did you notice another actor in that party scene that

(09:02):
went on to do a lot of cool stuff.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I didn't, but I thought you were gonna talk about
the other prefame cameo that we got in this movie,
But no, I did. I probably did, and I probably
just my brain just didn't connect it. So hit me
with it.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Well, I'm wondering, I'm curious if we're talking about the
same thing. So what were you gonna say? What's your
pre famed cameo that you saw?

Speaker 1 (09:27):
I was gonna say, this is a pre Breaking Bad.
Aaron Paul is in this. He plays the He plays
Tom Cruise's soon to be brother in law. I.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, so this movie came out in two thousand and six, right,
so we're a couple of years before Breaking Bad really
takes off. And yeah, I couldn't believe one that it
was him in two that he looks like exactly the
same as he does in Breaking Bad, which makes sense
that it's only two years apart, But yeah, I believe that.

(10:00):
I was like, Wow, You're gonna go on to have
an amazing like, you know, be on one of the
most critically acclaimed TV shows in history, and he at
this moment in time, like has no idea what's ahead
of him. I just think that's really cool.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
I actually like, I've seen this movie several times, and
I had to actually rewind it because I I this
was the first time that like I was actually like, oh,
like it clicked for me, and I was like, that's
that's not airon Paul, is it? And like hit the
reline button. I was like, sure, shit, it is.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
It absolutely is. And I'm so happy he comes back
later in the movie, because he appears twice, once in
that party scene and then again when Ethan Hunt is
trying to get a hold of his wife Julia and
he answers the phone and he's like, no, man, she's
at the hospital, Like I don't know, I'm just hanging out.
And then and then that's really all we get of him.
But it was good to see him come back later
in the film.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, I mean so, especially like it's really interesting when
you consider like a lot of like actors that we
now know is like big you know, big time roles,
like you talked about not aging and Paul Rudd is
a great example of that, you know, getting his start
on you know, Nintendo commercials, and he just recreated the
Nintendo commercial for switch to and you know, so it's

(11:14):
kind of like it's interesting to like see these kind
of people that you now know as like iconic roles
or that have built a career for themselves, and you
go back and you're like, oh, shoot, dude, Like.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Wow, yeah, absolutely, And this film, I mean just right
off the bat, because we get Tom Cruise getting it's
an engagement party or a pre wedding party. They're gonna
get married. He's getting married to Julia in this movie,
never seen or mentioned before. So already they're taking kind

(11:46):
of a big swing at establishing that he's moved on
from a secret agent life and he's starting to settle
down at least that's what they're leading us to believe.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Which I love that idea. It really got to refresh
as we talked about the last episode, where when you
look at the first two films, they very much feel,
especially the second film, they feel like James. They feel
that like Bond impression really heavily. And you know, part
of the James Bond DNA is that he has always

(12:15):
been a womanizer. You know, he has always kind of
had a part where he's basically Bond. Women are kind
of as iconic to the series as Bond himself as
a character, and to have him kind of walk away
from what made Ethan Hunt Ethan Hunt kind of that

(12:37):
James Bond element, and then to also have him settle
down in this one, but also kind of that changing
his DNA moving forward, because when we'll get into it,
the very one of the very last scenes in Ghost
Protocol is the fact it's been revealed that she's dead
or she that he faked her death, and they kind

(13:00):
kind of are separated, but she's like, you know, she's
revealed to be alive, and she'll like pop up in
like future sequels, but you know, just kind of having
that as like, no, we've kind of taken his like
you know, womanizing ways off of the table. He's a
happily married man. I think it just I think it
really helps Ethan Hunt kind of stand out against that

(13:23):
Bond archetype or argument.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
I think so. And it's it's there's a nice connecting
thread between three and four here where you feel like,
when four starts, they almost throw away the relationship and
the marriage, and I think it's easy to kind of
accept that as an audience member, where it's like, oh,
they just didn't want to continue this anymore, to then

(13:48):
lead it into being a pretty incredible twist at the
end of the film, and poor Jeremy Renner's character in
four like he has had all of this guilt and
was taken out of the field and just has all
of these problems thinking that he got his wife killed
and everything, only to find out that it, yeah, she

(14:08):
was able to be alive and have it, you know,
not be an issue. But in three Man, I want
to be as smooth as Tom Cruise is when he
goes and he chucks the ice out the back door
is in his backyard, and then he just goes and
he's like, we're a vice. I gotta go get more
so you can go and you know, accept his assignment

(14:29):
and see what they want from him.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, agreed. I mean I think that like really having
this entire thing. I think part of the reason that
I love this movie so well is that it pushes
up against the argument of what we think a mission
impossible movie is and offers this argument of, yes, but

(14:51):
this is what a mission impossible movie hand be, because
when you look at the stakes in this movie, I mean,
the stakes feel bigger, but also at the same time time,
given the fact that you have such a diabolical villain
in Hoffman, that I really want to unpack later, but
just kind of using it him as an example right now,

(15:13):
you know, having that and then also at the same
time you have a guy that has you know, retired,
but he's also you know, then he gets pulled back in.
I love the ideas that so many of these kind
of play with, and you kind of also get to
see the charisma in this opening sequence of Ethan Hunt.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
And it goes so well into some of the early
action scenes we see when he's going and taking on
that the the initial rescue operation and everything, and I
just love the moment when they're in the shootout and she,
you know, she's like, oh, I'm out. How many rounds
you got? And he says enough and then he comes
out from cover shoots one bullet, landing a headshot on

(15:56):
this guy and then he's like, now I'm out, and
I'm like, oh, man, you only one bullet, but that's
all he needed. So great one bullet was enough for him. Man.
I like I cheered out loud when that scene happened.
I was like, this, this is why I come to
the movies. This is so cool.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
That's definitely like an eighties, you know, action movie, like
something you would see in like a Stallone or Schwarzenegger movie.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, the the one liners like I'm happy that this
movie it doesn't doesn't shy away from those. And another
great line I wrote down is when Laurence Fishbourne's character
is kind of laying into them and one of the
characters is like, oh, you know, well, it's it's it's unacceptable,
and Laurence Fishburne says, it's unacceptable that chocolate makes you fat,

(16:44):
but I've eaten my share, and I was like, man,
that is straight facts right there.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I actually had to pause the movie this summer when
he said that because it made me laugh so hard.
But also that lie and the way that he delivered
it is very reminiscent of that boardroom scene from Batman v.
Superman where he's like kind of like mocking Clark and

(17:11):
he basically says wave of Gotham bad something along those
lines that he said in another news water wet. You know.
It's just the same energy right there.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
It is. It is so terrific some of the writing
in this movie and just some of the way the
dialogue is delivered, even at its like cheesiest and most ridiculous,
it's just it's either said by like excellent, like critically
acclaimed actors, or it's just delivered with so much sincerity.
I'm like, I can't even be mad at the way

(17:47):
this dialogue is being delivered. It's just so fantastic.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, it definitely feels like it has again. It has
the reminiscence of that eighties kind of action that we
talked about, you know, just a few minutes ago, and
I's it's clear with all of the cheese and everything,
and I love the fact that this kind of but
it takes itself seriously and I think you I think

(18:12):
it's just again. I think we have to talk. Just
jump into Phillip Seymour Hoffman. I mean, this guy is
just a absolute tour to force, and honestly, see Seymour
Hoffman is Philip Seymore. Hoffman is the reason that I
love this movie as much as I do, because we're
we're kind of led to believe. You know. One of
the very first sequences, you know, between him and Cruz

(18:36):
is you know, what's your name? Are you married? You
got a girlfriend. I'm gonna make her scream your name
and beg for beg for you as as I drain
the life from her, and I'm just like, dude, like,
this guy is just like dark. Like we kind of
went from like camp to just like dog.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah. I mean this is a guy who ten years
earlier was in Twister playing a storm chaser and was
just being you know, kind of goofy to now coming
in is this like really intimidating villain going up against
Ethan Hunt and.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Just being.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, like right off the bat, not even that concerned
that he was captured or bested or anything. It was
just the fact that he knew his face and he
knew his name, and he was just like, this is
a mistake and I'm gonna make you pay for it.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah. Like, And I think that's the type of villains
that are the best, right, Like, those are the villains
that they are the hero in their own story and
can do no wrong. And for him, I think what
works really well is that is absolutely Owen Davian just

(19:56):
just at his best. Ay Man is just like can
do no wrong, and you know, he's smart, and I
think you just kind of see that intelligence play. It's
also the first time that I feel like this is
a villain in the series, and I don't really remember
the villains in five, six or seven as well as

(20:17):
I remember this one, But this is the first one
where it felt like it was intelligence versus intelligence. It
wasn't just well, I guess you could make the argument
the first one, but it wasn't just like we got
to stop this like world ending event from happening, like
at the core end of this day, like it is
literally smarts versus smarts.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
And that's even indicated by the main plot device of
the Rabbit's foot. I mean we talked about we don't
know exactly what it is. Literally we don't know what
it is. The movie never really explains it. It's described
that it is a vile containing a biohazardous substance that
can kill a lot of people, but it's never explained
what it is, how it might get out, how many

(21:02):
people would be affected. It is instead focusing on the
intelligence versus intelligence, just like you said, it is Ethan
versus Philip Seymour Hoffman and kind of seeing how each
of them get one up on each other. And it
is the small moments of like the interrogation scenes and
the conversations between them, to the really big moments when

(21:24):
they think they've got them captured and they're driving across
the bridge and then the helicopters and missiles show up
and you get what is one of my favorite action
sequences in any of the movies and watching it and
I'm like, a lot of this looks practical, a lot
of this looks like they got out and actually filmed
a lot of this. We can definitely, you know, talk

(21:44):
more in detail about that scene, but it's just such
a great job by Philip Seymour Hoffman, as the actors,
as the as the writers, as JJ Abrams and directing.
All of this just came together to create a really
cool character that I mean to this day just in
terms of how memorable is. I feel like if you

(22:05):
ask most people who have seen most Mission Impossible movies
who their favorite villain is, three stands out and stands
out for good reason.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
It stands out.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Now.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I want to go back to something that you said
just a few seconds ago about how there's a lot
of ignorance surrounding the rabbit's foot. Yes, I would say
that that makes it that much more scarier. And when
you have a villain as unpredicted and cold and is
calculated as Owen Davey, especially the way that Hoffman plays him.

(22:36):
That makes him like a legitimate threat. And I think
that's part of the reason that this movie stands out
so much against the other ones, is because it is
there is that level of predictability. You know, you don't
know what to do, and so it definitely feels like, Okay,

(22:58):
what's going to happen if you know this guy was
was to get his hands on it.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Exactly. I mean, it's it's horrifying, and it's something that
he clearly does not have a whole lot of empathy
or sympathy. He's very calculated, he has resources, people listen
to him. He is henchman who will do what he
wants to do. Like it's it's just insane how well
connected he is. And and Philip Seymour Hoffman just brings

(23:26):
a really cool gravitas to that character that I don't
think many other actors would have been as successful in.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, it's a it's an absolute tourtive force. And there's
someone else that was supposed to play that role and
I don't remember who it was, So I will say
these say say what I'm gonna say, and then I'll
look it up real quick. But also too, this is
one of the first ones too, where this film feels
personal personal, it doesn't feel like you know, a lot

(23:57):
of the other films they feel like that espion, espionage
or spy adjacent type of things. Like if you've seen
James Bond, you know, these are the types of we
keep going, keep coming back to Bond, but they're Bond
and Hunt. There's so many there's so many similarities, but
you come back to those movies and they're almost always

(24:18):
the same exact way. You know, it's a guy in
the chair once the world to end, he's got the
device to make it do it. You know, it's probably
a little bit more intricate than that, but that's what
a lot of these boil down to. I mean, we
see this in Ghost Protocol, like I mean, that's kind
of the the nexus of that, and we saw it

(24:40):
in part two, you know, and so I think we
kind of see it throughout the course of this It's
just you know, you kind of just switch out different
devices and different countries and different leaders, and that's kind
of ultimately what you end up having. But this one
just it's just hits differently because of all of because

(25:00):
of the way this narrative is.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Delivered and making it more of a personal story where
you're seeing Ethan's personal life and then his married life.
They get married in the hospital. That wedding scene was adorable.
I thought that was a really sweet moment to include,
like in the middle of all of this hecticness. And
I liked Julia as a character. I feel like she

(25:23):
brought something to the movie that we haven't seen. I
think it would be easy to cast someone who would
you wouldn't necessarily care for, but I feel like you
get to see her through Ethan's eyes and you get
to really appreciate her character, especially toward the end of
the movie when Ethan needs to defibrillate himself and he
hands her the gun and he's telling her how to

(25:44):
shoot and everything. How did you feel about Julia as
a character. What did she bring to the movie for you?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
So, before I answer your question, it was Billy Bob
Thornton was originally supposed to play Oh man.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
I could see that man, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Could too, but I don't know if he would have
the last impression that gifts in this movie. I really
liked Julie as a character. I really like Michelle moynihan
as An actress. I actually just watched Kiss, Kiss, Bang
Bang before we started recording to My First Time Nice
and really loved her in that movie. And I just

(26:19):
I love their chemistry and this one I think it
works really well. I like their chemistry a lot more
than I've liked. I liked the love interest from the
second one, and I don't know, man, she just really
worked with me. I think you said it perfectly. We
it's not just someone that you know, Oh, we've been
away for Ethan for you know, X amount of years

(26:40):
and you know, now he's quit IMF and he's now
teaching in IMF, and but he's somehow now engaged. And
you know, I love the fact that we get to
see her through his eyes, like you said, like that's
perfectly spoken. And I love the camaraderie that they have

(27:03):
back and forth. And I love that she doesn't quite understand,
but there's enough trust that has been established, and this
world feels lived in, This relationship feels lived in for
the audience, where it's not just a oh, we've met
randomly at Starbucks, you know, or Madrolin Tinder, Like it
definitely has some depth that is applied here.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
It definitely does and the movie is able to I
think marry the smaller and more intimate moments with some
of the larger set pieces. This movie, it goes to
a lot of really cool places. I mean, he breaks
into the Vatican. They end up in Shanghai for the finale.
There's the scene on the bridge scene that we were

(27:47):
talking about that was on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It's
just it's so cool seeing all these different areas. And
was there a particular action sequence or moment that stuck
out to you you were either really like impressed by
or it's just you remember it really vividly.

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(28:41):
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Speaker 1 (29:49):
Well, probably the them trying to do go rescue Carrie
Russell's character in the Either That or him trying to
walk Michelle Julia's character through the diffibulator scene that is

(30:11):
also probably one of my favorite pieces in this movie.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Oh man, that that's such such good moments. I I
really loved everything having like when he was breaking into
the Vatican, it was so elaborate, like scaling over the wall,
having his disguise, trying to blend in. It was just
very impressive. But if, if, if you'll indulge me, I

(30:35):
got to talk about that bridge sequence because that was
that that it felt like it came out of nowhere
and then it just kept raising the stakes like every second.
It was just so cool.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Agreed, Yeah, I agree with that. And again I was
gonna say, like, you know, uh, you know, thinking that
we've won and then Davian and showed up out of
nowhere again just kind of crescendos that pet Bridge scene.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Exactly in watching it, so it was very reminiscent for
me of a movie that came out about ten years earlier,
True Lies, the Ard Swarzenegger movie, and there's a huge
bridge sequence in that movie as well. So watching this,
I was like, I know, True Lies. They did. It
was a combination of practical visual effects and models, and
it was filmed on the Highway bridge in the Florida

(31:28):
Keys and so I was like, this, this kind of
looks like that is that where they are? And no,
it's a Chesapeake Bay Bridge, which is for anyone who
doesn't know. And Josh, this is actually europe area, so
I'm sure you've been over it on more than one occasion.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah. I grew up not super far from this location,
probably like an hour and a half, and I've got
friends out there. When I got married, we lived probably
a little bit closer to I think we were like
be forty five minutes away from it, So that's cool. Yes,
I'm very familiar with the Chesspeard Bridge.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
It's yeah. So you know, it's this massive bridge and
tunnel complex that I want to say it spans. It's
over twenty miles. It's a very lengthy piece of road.
So they filmed on there. If anyone is interested or
has an interest in like civil engineering projects, look up

(32:27):
the history of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge because it is
pretty impressive what went into building it, maintaining it, and
just the engineering that went into it. But that aside,
watching this, I was like, look, this looks practical. I
feel like they filmed on the bridge, so looking up
behind the scenes, they did film some of the scenes
on the actual bridge. They also I think probably recreated

(32:48):
a bit on a set for doing some other stuff.
But we get a drone strike on the trucks that
they're driving, we get a helicopter coming in, we get
bad guys like repelling down onto the bridge. We get
explosions and gunfire and running and pieces of the bridge
getting blown out. Like it is everything that you would

(33:10):
want in this style of action sequence, and it brought
me back. You know, this movie was two thousand and six,
and it feels like that scene just really well encapsulated
the kind of nineties like action adventure sequence that you know,
you would have gotten a decade earlier.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, this movie that sequence in particular, And there's so
much about this movie that just embodies those action movies
that we grew up on or that our parents introduced
us too. And I think that's kind of like a
great example. But I also think that it's kind of
stunts like that in the Vatican that really kind of
shape what we know as Mission Impossible now. You know,

(33:53):
I think a lot of those kind of started with
it were you know, when you have the first film,
I think it feels like like they're like Okay, we
want to take this old television show modernize it, and
that'll be that. And then you know, when you come in,
you have someone like John wu come in who has
a completely different directing style than Brian de Palma. But

(34:16):
here it feels like you have Cruse kind of a
little bit more in the driver's seat, a little bit
more with the kind of hands on production stuff, which
is interesting because you consider that he had worked with
you know, he had a pretty good working relationship with
Spielberg around this time as well, doing a lot of
sci fi things with you know, War the World Minority Report.

(34:39):
And then to kind of have a you know, have
someone like Abrams, who also is very well known in
the sci fi elements kind of do these really practical effects.
I think Abrams this is that relationship between Abrams and
Cruise really kind of has this ripple effect on the
franchise moving forward.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I had forgotten that War of the World's in Minority
Report had predated this movie, and they came out pretty
close together, like the mid two thousands. For Tom Cruise
was a very prolific time. I feel like he was
getting a lot of work. I feel like there was
any time you went to the movie you would see
like a poster for some upcoming project he was doing.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, and also too round this time it was either
it might have been the same year or a little
bit afterwards. Is the is the Oprah Couch incident? Yeah,
and you know, like really kind of where his beliefs
with scientology really kind of start to take a dip,
and so he kind of took He had this like like,

(35:44):
it's really interesting looking at Tom Cruise's career because he
has this like just like banger after banger of banger,
then like out of nowhere, he kind of has this
like wull And I think it I think it actually
might take place between am I three and it goes protocol.
But don't quote me on that.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
You know, that makes sense, And it's funny to me
because I always felt that it was a long period
of time between three and four, like we thought the
series was finished with three, and then they continued and
and maybe that that is what it was. I don't
know if they finished this and intended to continue it.
Clearly once four was a success, they did continue it

(36:25):
and are continuing it. But we had a six year
gap between two and three, and then only a five
year gap between three and four. So I don't know why.
In my head, it feels like one, two, and three
were right in line with each other when there was
a pretty sizable sizeable gap in between, and the movies
we've gotten since then have been closer together.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, well, uh yeah, I mean I guess so because
you look at the you know, you look at one
and two and it's a four year gap, and then
this is a six year gap. So maybe he was
like working with Spielberg. But I feel like I feel
like we kind of keep tag up to Goost protocol.
So I'm kind of curious if here's any last things

(37:06):
you wanted to go over with a discussing n M.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
I three just two quick things. I'll say. One, got
to give a shout out to my man Simon peg Love,
that actor. Uh we did our Shawn of the Dead episode.
And this this is a trivia fact I wanted to
bring up, but I didn't get the chance to when
we were recording that. When he was moving out to
Hollywood after he had done films like Shawn of the Dead.

(37:30):
In an interview who he joked saying, like, you know,
basically they were saying, you're leaving Great Britain. You're you're
leaving British media, like you're going to become Americanized, Like
what what are you doing? And he's basically like, look,
it's not like I'm leaving to go do I don't know,
Mission Impossible three or something. And he just pulled that
out of nowhere before he was ever involved with that project.

(37:53):
And then uh, and then he got a role in
Mission Impossible three, which he greatly expanded in four, and
it is and in every movie sense.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
I think that's like a great segue to kind of
that's first off, that's an amazing quote and of anything
serendipitous moment that just happened. But I love like kind
of going back and seeing it because I genuinely forgot
that he had this very small role, like it's not
quite a cameo, but it's not quite this like large role.

(38:24):
It's maybe a handful of scenes. And I think they
do such a great job at really implanting him here
in this series, especially in this this entry to where
he is expanded upon greatly, Like it kind of almost
feels like that you know when you go to an
ice cream shop and you're not quite sure about a

(38:44):
flavor and you're like, can I sample this? And so
you get that sample and then you're like, oh, I
really like this, Like let me get more of this.
And that's what it feels like we got in Ghost Protocol,
Like I feel like they just even with the very
brief scenes you get here. Benji has such a memorable
way of just sticking with you.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Apps. He absolutely does. And you might have noticed he
looks to be in a lot better shape in Ghost
Protocol than he does in Mission Impossible three, and I
realized that. So he did Hot Fuzz a year after
he did three, and I know that he did a
lot of like actual police training and research and exercising

(39:27):
and working out to get into that headspace and that
type of role. And I do know in an interview
once he was really picked up and doing things in four,
he was motivated and he was like, look, this is
a Tom Cruise action movie. I'm a big part of this.
Tom Cruise is super fit. I'm gonna get super fit too.
I want to have a six pack. I want to

(39:47):
just get as physically fit as I can. So I
know he did a lot of training for Ghost Protocol
and it paid off. He looks great in this movie.
I am jealous and hope I age half as well
as he has been able to do. Got half. This
podcast is me just complimenting Tom Cruise and how good
he looks, complimenting Simon Pegan how good he looks, but

(40:10):
truly it is. It is so cool and seeing him
come back for four which four one of my favorite
opening sequences is in a film, one of my favorite
fuse lighting sequences to get the the opening theme running
and going uh, but them breaking him out of the
Russian prison and him refusing to take Benchi's orders and

(40:34):
just trying to go break his friend out as well.
Such such a great opener for that movie.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
I agree. I think this movie has a really strong opening.
And my hot take for this movie, Dan, let's hear it.
I I don't hate this movie, but I just think
it's okay.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Wow, did you not see him hang off the tallest
building on Earth? Come on, man, you can't. Tom Cruise
hung off buildings for us and it was just okay.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
That sequence is incredible. I will one hundred percent give
you that. I think there are incredible things that this
movie does. This movie feels like a film out of time.
You know, if if The If Part three felt like
an inn eighties or a nineties movie with some eighties cheese,
this one feels like a modern film with an eighties

(41:32):
eighties stakes to it. This movie feels very cold War
to me.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, I would agree. This movie feels like a sequel
and a reboot all at the same time. I feel
like Mission Impossible one, two, and three sort of exist
in the times that they were filmed, and they can
kind of be grouped together despite being very different directors
and and thematically pretty different. But from four on, it
feels like the franchise took on just a whole new

(42:01):
personality starting with Ghost Protocol, and they've been sort of
pushing things since then, and I feel like it really
started with Ghost Protocol. This is the first big practical
stunt that was sort of well advertised before the movie.
I feel like, and I could be misremembering because I
was young when the first three came out, but the
marketing for this movie was very much we had Tom

(42:24):
Cruise climb outside of the tallest building on Earth. You
have to go to the theater and go see this.
And let me tell you, if they ever do a
re release of this film on full expanded IMAX ratio.
I would go see it because that would be such
a cool sequence to see on the gigantic screen.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I remember when they did the Hobbit movie, the the
third one it come out, and also when The Dark
Knight Rises came out. AMC had actually done an all
day event to where, like you know, middle day, we'll
start around like two o'clock and we'll show the entire trilogy.

(43:04):
I would love to see this entire It would be
I feel like it would be a lot to take in.
So it's a short period of time, but I feel
like it would be worth it to see all eight
of these movies in IMAX. And again, I I'm not
gonna shit on this movie because it just I'm just

(43:24):
not the I don't know, action movies are just not
something that like I regularly throw on, you know, I've
I've probably will come back to these movies once every
ten years. That's fine. Like same with like you know,
John Wick and you know some other you know movies
like Predator and stuff like that. Like I don't hate

(43:45):
these movies by any means. I think these movies. The
stunt is stunts are greatly executed, There's so much about
this movie that I genuinely do love, but I think
one of the things that is missing for me, and
I didn't realize how much I appreciate this about the
DNA of the mission of possible movies until this movie.

(44:10):
But one of the things that we didn't talk about
with the last movie that I think works really well
is I love the dynamic between him and Ving Raim's
character in that movie, to where you know, he is
kind of providing this like voice of reason, like you know, hey,
like that we're you know, we're basically ghosts, like we

(44:31):
don't get to live these like happy lives, like it
won't last more than twenty three months, and you know,
just kind of being this like, you know, voice of
reason to where basically like good guys don't get the
girl at the end of the day. And I didn't
realize how much I missed his character Luther until this movie.

(44:53):
He's still in this movie in a cameo.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, I was a little that we didn't really get
him until the very end, and it was it was
definitely lacking something. I definitely missed his presence because he
is such a great character.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
And I think I think they tried to kind of
pivot some of that and kind of take some of
that humor and kind of split it between the Renner
character as well as the Benji character. Like it definitely
feels like first half that movie a lot of the
comedy that Luthor would definitely have, you can see as
disperse to Benji. And then the second half when they're

(45:35):
especially when they're kind of doing that the Jupiter Saturn,
you know they're trying to get the launch codes yep sequence,
you can definitely tell that Renner is kind of the
comedy guy now.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
And it's so funny seeing how these movies are expanding
their cast because I had forgotten that Jeremy Renner may
is part of it now, and I was like, oh yeah,
and then my brain just starts like loading the other films.
I was like, oh right, we haven't even gotten to
Alec Baldwin joining the cast yet. We haven't gotten to
Angela Bassett joining the cast yet. Like all of these

(46:10):
incredible people are going to be coming on and being
part of this world, and it's just such a such
a cool thing, one thing we hadn't talked about. So
this was directed by Brad Bird, who has not done
that much live action. What people would know him for
is he directed The Incredibles and Ratitui for Disney. So

(46:30):
those there are two excellent films that he did, very
different from Mission Impossible.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Also did the Iron Giant.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I did not know. Man, what an incredible resume this
dude has.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
I think Iron Giant actually, if I remember correctly, I
think actually was like his like feature film debut.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Oh man, what a strong movie to have as a debut.
But I don't don't know if you've done an Iron
Giant episode yet, But let's do a throwback one and
talk Iron Giant sometime. That is just one of the
most like, heart wrenching, incredible animated movies ever and it
still holds up so well. And Vin Diesel is the
voice of the Iron Giant. If there's anyone out there

(47:17):
who didn't know that, go check out the classic Diesel
movie Iron Giant.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, and I mean the entire premise of that movie.
Maybe we will do an episode on that. Is like
what if a gun had a soul but like didn't
want to be a gun? Like what an incredible, like
deeply like profound philosophical, you know idea to have for
a film, and I don't know, I just I'm like
kind of sad that like he didn't find his footing

(47:46):
in in directing like these like big spectacles the way
that he did with this one, because like he's only
done one other live action movie and that's Tomorrowland, and
that like basically completely flop. And I believe now he's
gearing up to do Incredible three, which isn't necessarily bad.
But I'm like genuinely shocked because I think that he

(48:07):
does a really good job at executing the live action
stuff here really well, especially a lot of the action sequences,
like you know, we talked about, like you know, him
having to climb this skyscraper with you know, malfunctioning gloves,
like it's such a Welsh shot action sequence. And to

(48:28):
kind of be the first director to really kind of
do this like big spectacle that now Mission Impossible is
known for is like I mean, it's it counts for something.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
It definitely does. And I don't know why. While you're talking,
the vision just popped in my mind of Mission Impossible too,
when he blows the door open and the dove flies
through the flames and he walks past the open door
and I'm like that that is in the same series
of this movie, and those two could not be more
different from each other, Like it feels crazy that they

(49:03):
like the rules of the universe of Mission Impossible too
don't seem to apply in four, but we get we
get an amazing running scene in this movie. Tom Cruise
is of course known for his running. I feel like
in Mission Impossible three, when he's running through Shanghai, that
is the first really intense running scene we get in
Mission Impossible, and four just picks it up and runs

(49:27):
with it, so we get, yeah, running out of the
Bursch Khalifa after that, that whole sequence, I mean, people
don't remember he is climbing the bers Khalifa because they
need to impersonate and set up this meeting between these
people and be able to get these codes and infiltrate.
But they need to have control of the building. There's

(49:48):
only one way to get into the server to be
able to do that, and so he has to access
it from the outdoors and just climb up the side
of the building, which I'm just so curious. They are spies.
What part of being subtle is hanging off the side
of a building? And who knows who is in those
offices and other rooms that he's climbing outside of, Like

(50:09):
so many people could have seen him while he was
doing that.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
I don't honestly know. So the reason I'm gonna say
this right now is because I've done like I've worked
at jobs where like I cleaned for a living, and
you know, one of the things that I often find
is that, you know, we naturally don't ever have a
tendency to like look up. You know, there's a lot

(50:35):
of dust, there's a lot of cobwebs that collect in
certain areas within our own that we don't ever think about.
It's because, you know, we instinctively just look at what
we can see and we look down, you know. So
I honestly don't think it's that far fetched. Like I
was gonna climb the side of this one hundred and

(50:57):
story building and get the information that we need to sign.
I don't think it's that far fetched. Like call me Grace,
that's fair.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
That must be how Spider Man's able to get around
all the time. I'm detected, and no one ever bothers
looking up. They're just in traffic trying to get to
their their day jobs. I don't know now.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
I will say though, that like other movies teach us
one thing, and like coming off of even the most
recent release of Thunderbolts, all it takes is literally one
person to look up and you're just kind of like,
what are you looking at? And then you like look
up and you're like, oh, there's a man, yeah, climbing
a building.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
That was me last year when I saw Starlink for
the first time. I don't know how many listening have
ever seen starlink in person, but if you don't know
what you're looking at, it is terrifying because it does
it looks like an attack. It looks like missiles and
just way high up in the atmosphere, and I was

(51:56):
freaking out and I'm like, what is happening. This was
also like a week after one of the you know,
major attacks that happened in the world, so I was like,
this is just this is insane. So yeah, that when
you're looking up and I was in a group of
people and I saw it and I was like, what
the heck is that? And I pointed it out and
then everyone's looking up, but everyone's like, I have no

(52:17):
clue what that is. I'm happy I know what it
is now, because the first time I saw it it
was extremely horrifying. Yeah, so crazy man the sci fi world.
Imagine trying to explain to a cave man. All Right,
so we're gonna build things and then they're gonna be
in space and you're gonna be able to see it
flying and zooming around the Earth. Man. The future is wild.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, one dred percent. I do want to go back
to Simon peg in this movie because I think we
kind of like glazed over him. He has probably one
of the best running gags in this entire movie, and
that is him just wanting to see the masks, which
again we didn't talk about it necessarily in the in
part three, but you actually got to see how the

(53:02):
creation of the mask was, how the formation of it goes.
You actually kind of got to see that when we
were first introduced to Phillip Seymour Hoffman in the proper timeline,
and I love that. Benji just like throughout the course
of this is like his running gag is like I
want to mask, I want to mask.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
I love that. And then the poor guy doesn't even
get to have one because their machine malfunctions and they're
not able to get it done. I do like the
each movie sort of makes the technology more advanced and
more accessible, and I believe it gets even more compact
as we get into the future movies. But this is
one of the first moments where were really actually seeing

(53:45):
them get fabricated. Usually I feel like they're just already
wearing them, but it was cool to see some of
the tech behind it.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Yeah, and it definitely like it gets more precise and
it gets like definitely more thought out where it's like
we're not just meeting them like mid mission to where
it's like, you know, you go back to the first one,
you're you're seeing Tom Cruise, you know, and personating a congressman.
You know, you're actually getting to see like what the

(54:12):
process looks like and what the things were. And I
also this time around, like, for as much as I
think this movie is like is okay, I will say
this probably has some of the best gadgets of the
entire franchise. Like I love the one that they give
to Jeremy Renner where he can like blink and yeah,

(54:34):
they can they get just like printed in this like briefcase.
Like it's such a cool sequence.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
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(55:06):
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Speaker 2 (55:46):
That one was cool, and I love how that kind
of leads into then the fight scene when you know,
the bad guys are talking to realize something is up,
and we get some just incredible hand to hand combat.
We see Jeremy Renner is not actually just an analyst.
He has a lot of skills of a field agent
and kind of reveals himself there and stuff like that

(56:09):
was just just such such a cool moment to see
there's a lot of stuff in this hotel in the
bush Khalifa in Dubai. One of my favorite trivia pieces
about this movie. The insurance company and the safety people
did not want Tom Cruise doing this, and they said, no,
you can't do it. So Tom Crews fired them, hired

(56:29):
new people, and then the new people found a way
to get him to do it and allow him to
do it. And there's there's a very good interview of
Matt Damon where he's basically he asked Tom Cruise to
tell the story and he's like, yeah, so I asked
the safety guy, and the safety guy, you know, says no,
you can't do it. So anyways, I fired my safety guy.

(56:50):
And Matt Damon's like, I guess that's the difference between
me and Tom Cruise. Me if the safety guy says
I can't do it, I'm just like, well, safety says
can't do it, not not for me, not possible.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
It kind of reminds me of that scene and the
disaster artists where they're they're shooting the movie of the
room and they're getting ready to do the sex scene
and Tommy Wiseo walks up to Greg and he's like,
Greg's just like why why are you naked? And He's like,
I gotta sell my I got to show my ass
in order to sell this movie. It's just that same principle.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
That's exactly it. And yet that that is what sold
that movie for sure, no no other reason but this,
I mean, this is this is great. We get we
mentioned running. We get a great running scene of tom
Cruise leaving the birsh Galifa. We see the uh, the
sandstorm kind of overtake him. Good thing he has goggles

(57:45):
on from when he was doing his outdoor climb, so
he's able to run through the sandstorm. It's revealed or
Jeremy Renner reveals that, you know, his wife was killed
by these Serbian nationals and then Ethan Hunt hunted them down.
That's why he was in prison and and everything. And
you know, we think, we think that's the story. This

(58:08):
movie kind of it hits you three times where you think, like,
oh damn, that's what happened. Because Benji in the beginning
is just like, oh, he was married, but then you know,
and it makes it sound like, oh, they just they
don't want to get into it. And then we hear
Jeremy Renner's perspective, and then at the end of the
movie we hear Tom Cruise's perspective. So it's cool how
they dangle this relationship almost like a carrot in front

(58:30):
of you, where it's like they just reveal kind of
bit by bit from different perspectives what actually happens.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah, I like that it's not necessarily something that you
need to concern yourself with overly, but it's always kind
of something that exists. And you kind of brought up
earlier about how Ghost Protocol feels like this like soft
reboot kind of moving forward and it's just kind of
like echo throughout. Should also be worth mentioning that this

(58:58):
is also the sky Dance era of which is also
something to consider. Is we talked with also with the
third one, Jj Abrams, you know, directing this now switching
to producing, so you know, you definitely feel that it's
the partnership of Abrams as well as as well as

(59:23):
Cruz kind of echoing throughout the course of this, but
also one of those elements happens to be his and
Julia's marriage, to where it is an actual It is
like a thread that kind of wes itself throughout the
course of the rest of these movies, and you kind
of start to see that here to where this is

(59:46):
what happened to marriage, but it's it's Benji's take. Then
you have Renders take, you have Cruise's.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Take exactly, and I see you put a note down
here that I'm kind of laughing at. Why is IMF
always looking to Ethaner's team? Why stay? Why keep working
for these guys? Like every mission they disavow and then
there you're being hunted by your own people, Like why
keep working there?

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
I think what I think is is fascinating about this one.
Like we talked about the stakes in the last one
being like extremely personal. This is like what if we
just took literally all of the resources away and the
crew just had to rely on their wits. And I
think that stakes. I think that steak really by making
them quote unquote ghosts, really does deepen the stakes for

(01:00:35):
this movie. And I think it was really thrilling to
kind of see like, all right, we want to see
what all of these years of training, in all these
years of being the program have really done for you,
and kind of getting to see that firsthand.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Absolutely, And I know the tech in this movie we
touched on. We didn't even talk about the hallway tech
of the mirror and the screen that they're able to
say up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
That probably one of my favorite scenes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
That was such a cool sequence and realizing that they
set up the screen it has this camera that's kind
of tracking, and realizing it's tracking the eye level and
the angle of the person at the end of the
hallway to constantly adjust the angle and perspective so that
it always looks correct and doesn't look off. And then

(01:01:23):
I love just the effect of when multiple guys come
in and then it starts glitching out and it's kind
of like flashing and they have to figure it out
like that. That scene is just so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Yeah, it's it's probably one of my favorite scenes in
the entire franchise, like in terms of it like the
fact that, and I also feel like it's such refreshing
because I feel like, especially in blockbusters like this, you
never have those scenes where it's avoid of music, it's
void of dialogue, you're literally just sitting between the silence
and the characters and you're just in the thick of it.

(01:01:57):
I think it makes the anxiety really brings you to
the edge of your seat, and it just feels refreshing
to have that type of sequence, especially in modern cinema
where everything has to be is this spectacle, everything has
to be this you know, we want to blow shit
up kind of mentality.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
It reminds me of some of the techniques that like
Quentin Tarantino uses in some of his movies, where it
really focuses and slows things down. Sometime, I made the
mistake maybe last year of, like, you know, I had
seen Glorious Bastwards in a while, I want to watch
some scenes from that movie and just kind of refresh
my memory. So I open it up and I intend

(01:02:39):
to just watch the intro and the opening scene. The
intro to that movie is like twenty two minutes long,
and it's basically just a conversation between two characters, but
it is so riveting and interesting it just pulls you
in right away. And that's what it kind of reminded
me of of. We're going from these huge pieces of

(01:03:00):
action sequences to now just you know, a few characters
in a hallway trying to break their way in and
the the stress of trying to get it, you know,
just just perfect so they don't get captured. It's with
such such a cool scene to see.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Random Hollywood trivia factory about inglorious bastards.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Oh yeah, hit me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
The bj Novak character was originally written and was supposed
to be Adam Sandler. Wow, okay, but he had he
had complications with shooting funny people at the same time.
So uh h, that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Makes sense man, that I could have never would have
predicted that. That's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, really, where do you want
to go from that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
So I'm you know, so I this movie. This movie
was great. It's funny. I have like, I'm trying to
remember what the ultimate final like finale sequence of this
movie was, and I'm just drawing a complete blank in
my memory. It goes from everything at the Birsh Khalifa

(01:04:13):
to them, you know, meeting up at the end of
the movie, and then we see Julia get off the boat.
I like, there's there's just a disconnect of what happens
in between.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Well, they're trying to infiltrate that party to get the leader.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
That's right. That whole scene happens after I had forgotten
that order that was happening in.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
I mean, it's it's I'm not gonna say it's not
for I'm not gonna say it's not rememberable, but it
is kind of forgettable.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Jeremy Renner jumps down onto a big spinning turbine and
they have to catch him with magnetism or something. It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
It's a great that that whole sequence with Jeremy Renner
and Simon Peg definitely some of my favorite scenes in
the entire movie. But the movie, like the surrounding scenes
with Paula Patten's character in Tom Cruise and Prayer trying

(01:05:09):
to seduce like the net that like I don't even
know what country he was from, but like the foreign
like diplomat, like yep. It's just I feel like I've
seen that sequence in like a dozen other movies, and
I feel like I've praised this movie enough and I
like have it like I just called it, but that

(01:05:32):
there's a reason that you probably couldn't remember it. Dan,
It's kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Forgettable, you know, It's understandable. This is my problem with
all of these movies is they they put so much
effort into a big sequence like him hanging off the building,
and I come away from the movie and that is
pretty much the only part I remember. I've seen this
movie before, and when it started with him in prison,
I was like, Oh, he's in prison, I am that

(01:05:58):
is surprising to me. I didn't remember that this movie
started that way.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Yeah, I feel like I still I feel like too.
Like I read an article one time and it was
talking about like a movie is only is only ever
going to be as good as its villain, right, And
so you know, we talk about the entirety of this series.
Most people remember Philip seymour Hoften. You know, they probably

(01:06:27):
can't tell you shit about his character, but they could
tell you that he is kind of the most memorable
part of any villain in the Mission Impossible series. Then
you have villains like the Joker from Dark Knight, you
have Thanos Darth Vader, you know, you have con from
Star Trek, like you know, you have all of these

(01:06:49):
like really big theatrical villains that are remembered and celebrate
it because of their just because of how well that
actor pulled it off. You know, and then you have
in terms of also villainy you have coming into the horror.

(01:07:10):
You know, you have leather Face and Chucky and Pinhead
and Michael Myers and Freddy Krueger and Jason Vorhees and
Pamela Warhees, like you have all of these icons that
have carved out an entire subgenre. And I think that
sometimes that old adage of your movie is only as
good as your villain. There's there's some truth in that,

(01:07:32):
and I feel like part of the reason that this
movie that I have issues with this movie is you
can definitely tell that they took their time and they
thought out a lot of the intricate you know parts
of this how the gadgets are gonna work, how you
know what we're going to do in terms of, you know,
the Ethan and Juliet dilemma and what are we going

(01:07:52):
to do with that plot line? But also at the
same time, you know, what are we doing with the gadgets,
and all of the attention and goes to stuff like that,
and when it comes to the actual narrative, that's where
it suffers.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
Yeah, no, I would agree with you, as much as
I love these movies for what they are. I do
think that there is a disconnect when it comes to
the actual story that's being told in the way it's
being told, and it's you know, I'll take my own
responsibility here. The audience definitely has a job to do
in retaining the information that is being provided to them.

(01:08:30):
And if you come out of a movie and all
you remember are the big action sequences, I think it
is a you know, partial audience member fault of not
retaining information. But it is also up to the entire
cast and crew of a project to make something that
is going to resonate with people. And that's why so

(01:08:52):
many stories at their core, and this is coming from
someone who loves action movies so much. You need to
have the human and emotion element. There's got to be
a hook there that will bring you in. If I
want to see, you know, just mindless explosions and action
scenes for ninety minutes, Sure there are movies that fit that,

(01:09:12):
but for something to be everlasting and something that we
can talk about years and years later, which I am
feeling old that this movie came out fourteen years ago now,
Like I feel like I remember, you know, seeing trailers
for this I was in college when this movie came out,
like it just it feels insane how that time just
goes by. But anything that we talk about, whether we

(01:09:36):
go over action movies, we talk about animated films, we
do so many, you know, comic book adaptations, and we
cover Marvel and DC those films, in those stories always
have a human element to it. You can't have Batman
without looking at the duality of Bruce Wayne. You can't
have Peter Parker, or rather, you can't have Spider Man

(01:09:57):
without looking at the struggles of Peter Parker. Like the
people who created these stories, I think did such a
good job at creating realistic and flawed characters. And maybe
that's that's Ethan Hunt's problem is there isn't much of
a flaw apart from the fact that he gets disavowed
so frequently. But he you don't typically see him get

(01:10:21):
bested in a scene, and if he does, it's it's
typical usually not for very long. You know. We see
him get captured, We see him in Get the Uh,
in in three the the explosive put in his head
that he then has to differblated at the end of
the movie. We see things like that happen. We see

(01:10:41):
him in prison in the first in four.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
But yeah, there's just it is mission impossible, and that
is the core of these movies. And I think that's
why three resonated so much that you got some more
of these, you know, personable story is in a way
that the rest of the franchise does not really give

(01:11:04):
you that much.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Yeah, I was gonna say exactly that. Like, I think
that's part of the reason that I love threes because
it's the first time that you actually feel like you
connect with Ethan on a really personable level. And also
to an extent, you also get that with Luther as well,
with some of his dialogue as well, you know, and
as part of the things that you know, again, there

(01:11:28):
are definitely some movies that are gonna be strictly entertainment.
There's literally nothing wrong with that, you know, And I
think Slashers are a great example of that. I mean
Slashers literally primarily exist to say, hey, we are gonna
show you all the practical ways that you know this

(01:11:50):
are are our villain is going to kill these you know,
camp counselors or a group of teenagers or you know,
people living in this this wooden shape in the middle
of the woods, like and adjacent to that, in the
horror and the action genre, you have these popcorn films
that don't necessarily need to be super deep, and I

(01:12:13):
think for a mission impossible though. I think the thing
that I loved so much about the one in three
is that they're they have those steaks, but those steaks
are so simple, whereas when you get into this one,
it's like, oh, we gotta you know, it's just kind
of this like rabbit trail to where it's like, all right,

(01:12:33):
so we got to get this thing, but then we
got to get these codes, and then we got to
do this way, and then it's got to go this way,
and you know, ultimately we got to try and seduce
this guy and hold them, you know, and I choke hold,
say hey, like give us the code so that we
can do X, Y and Z, like, you know, so
we started to gotta get we start to kind of
get a little bit complicated from a narrative perspective. There again,

(01:12:56):
there's nothing wrong with that, but it definitely does make
these movie vs feel largely like they don't have rewatch value.
And you know, when I come back to like the
era of action movies that I think serve rewatch value.
I think I want something that's going to be simple.
I want something that's going to be connected, and I

(01:13:18):
think something like Predators, like great example, we're speaking moderately.
I think you could go John Wick. I mean those
are literally two great examples right there where you don't
need a lot of depth. You just literally watch people
face off against one another.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Absolutely, and we've done a lot of comparison and mission
Mission impossible to James Bond. And there's so many movies
to choose from. One of my favorite and the more
modern era, would be Skyfall. That movie came out in
twenty twelve and it's so great. I watched it well.
I was able to go to Scotland last year with
my wife and we had a phenomenal time. But we

(01:13:56):
were we took a tour of the Highlands and I
noticed there's a road that goes between two mountains and
Daniel Craig stands there and when I saw it, I
was like, this is where Skyfall was filmed. And then
our tour bus driver was like, oh, and if anyone
likes James Bond, this is Skyfall. Like I knew it's
where skyfallas so it was so cool. So coming home,

(01:14:18):
we watched the movie on the plane, which I'm not
This is a whole other aside. I don't don't don't
watch a movie for the first time on a plane.
It's not the best film theatrical experience. But I had
seen it many times. I was like, let's watch Skyfall,
and so watching that one of my all time favorite movies.
Great James Bond movie. A movie that perfectly combines the

(01:14:40):
emotional aspect of James Bond with the history of his
family and everything with the action and the espionage of
the James Bond film, and that is something that would
be great for mission. Impossible to do. Show me a
scene where he has to go back to his childhood home,
doesn't need to be in a state, could be anything,

(01:15:01):
or get him, you know, give me a little bit
more detail about some of his personal life and get
the stakes involved there, and I think you will have
a very unique and interesting movie that will bring you
in emotionally and then keep it going with the action
set pieces as well.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
Maybe I'm riding on the high of Thunderbolts and I
don't know if you've seen it, already or.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Did see it last night?

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Yeah, so we're on the same page. I also saw
it last night. But one of the things I think
that movie does so well is that it makes you
care about characters that have traditionally been side characters up
until that point in the MCU, and they really they're
not They're not afraid to really explore a lot of
really dark themes, ranging from you know, child abuse to

(01:15:50):
uh grieve to uh, you know, heartbreak and everything kind
of in between. And it's it's really hard to kind
of look at franchise like Mission Impossible and realize that,
you know, especially coming off of the how personal the
stakes were in part three, to kind of come back

(01:16:11):
to like the traditional you know, IMF missions like yes, okay,
we've abandoned you, but you know, they also abandoned him
in the first one, and then they're coming back into
this one, Like I just I again, this movie's entertaining,
But I don't know the next time I watched this movie.

(01:16:34):
And I think that's kind of the thing that the
older I get, the more that kind of factors into
my feelings of like, does this movie actually rewatch? Like,
you know, if you're doing us on Patreon, like I have,
you get to see the videos, but I have the
Showgirls poster back here, and people hate that movie and

(01:16:55):
shit on it all the time, and I am constantly
entertained by that movie. And again, I think this is
just one of those things that it's like I am
just clearly not the audience for it, and that's okay.
Like I'm entertained to watch this movie every few years,
I'm not gonna make it a regular watch.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
Yeah. I think we both probably have pretty sizable physical
media collections at this point. And I love buying movies.
I don't do it as frequently as I used to,
but it's because it's that thing of rewatchability. If it's
gonna be a movie I want to watch maybe one
more time someday I can rent it or find it
through a streaming service or other ways to do it,

(01:17:36):
but a movie that I'm gonna watch regularly, like the
Cornetto trilogy. I have a four K copy of those
three movies. I will watch them, you know, every year,
pretty much at least once a year, if not more.
And some of my all time favorite films in recent memory,
like Barbie, I made sure we got a four K
copy of Barbie. Any Star Wars movie that comes out,

(01:17:57):
you'll probably pick up going through like season one of
and or to Rewatch. I had the four K steel
book of that, so we were watching it and it
was just so great. So these movies, I'll be honest,
I don't know what I'm gonna return and watch them again,
but Tom Cruise has gotten into my brain like some
kind of parasite. And when this series is truly done

(01:18:20):
and finished, which it is looking like this is the
final one, whatever box set, they release a four K
of all eight of them, I will probably go by
and put in my collection and will I ever watch
them maybe someday, but just owning, you know, physical copies
of high quality versions of these movies, for me is

(01:18:41):
something that I want as part of my collection as
someone who loves cinema.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
I remember when we were starting to talk about this
series and we were like, mayn we should just buy them.
I have streamed every single one of these movies to
where I'm like, I don't watch these movies. It up
to warrant like wanting to buy them. Sometimes I sometimes
I will, but you know, and sometimes if it's I

(01:19:09):
don't know, it's yeah, I feel like I've shat on
this movie quite a lot unintentionally. This movie is very entertaining.
It's still a solid three out of five for me. Yep,
it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
Well, we'll see how our next episode where we go
over Rode Nation lands, because again saw that movie. That
was the first movie I saw in theaters, and I
think I told this story on our last episode, but
I had never seen any of these And then it
was the trailer of him hanging off the jet as
it's taking off, and then come to find that they
actually did that practically, and I was like, no, way,

(01:19:45):
Tom Cruise hung off a military aircraft. Well it got
up to speed to take off and fly around. No,
they did that. That's not a green screen. So I
watched one through four in twenty fifteen, and then five, six,
and seven i've seen in the and now eight we'll
see in theaters as well, So that's actually cool. I
will have seen half of this franchise theatrically in theaters,

(01:20:08):
which is which is pretty awesome. So but Rogue Nation,
that is the only scene in that movie I remember.
Could not tell you anything else, So that is gonna
feel like watching it for the first time. All over again.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Yeah, same, I haven't seen I haven't seen Rogue Nation
since right before Fallout came out, and Fallout I've seen
several times because Henry Cavill is so good in that movie.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
It is great Fallout I remember more. There's probably three
scenes of that movie I remember, but it is Henry
Cavill is a big reason of what makes that movie
so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Absolutely all right, Well, I think that's going to do
it for us. If you guys haven't checked out our
original episode covering Mission Impossible one and two, go check
it out. Stream it wherever you guys are currently listening
to this. But Dan, where can people find you online?

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
You can find me over on techwraptor dot net if
you want to check out any of my coverage of
video games over there, or any of the talented writers
we have over there. We're doing a lot of working
very hard as we're approaching the Nintendo Switch to release,
and I'll be having some stuff go up toward the
middle of May because I will be at Packs East

(01:21:18):
in Boston next weekend and checking out a lot of
really cool games, doing interviews, talking developers, and hopefully making
some new friends because a lot of cool people attend
that convention, so I will be down over there. I
am on letterboxed as well for movies, although I have
not updated it in quite some times, so get get

(01:21:41):
an outdated form of my opinions and watch lists there
and maybe if I if I have some time this weekend,
I will I will pick that up also as we
record where You're approaching May the fourth, So no Star
Wars talk this time around, but if you have any
Star Wars facts, questions, things you want to talk about,

(01:22:01):
you can hit me up on Instagram. I think my
handle is dt rock nine to one last time I checked,
so please feel free to send a chat over there.
We'll talk some Star Wars also.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Yes, I'm just gonna throw this out there as a
challenge for you, Dan, but May May the fourth is
a couple of days away. You could start your letterbox
back up.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
I could. You know, my only plans this weekend, because
I'm a thirty four year old man, are clean my garage.
So in between cleaning the garage, I could definitely take
take some time and make some updates there. So I
think I'll do that. I'll add it to the old
to do list.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
All right, Well, you guys can find me on Letterbox.
I'm at Captain Nostalgia. I religiously live on that social
media platform and it's the only platform that I that
in good Reads that I am on constantly. But you
guys can follow me on my other part we do.
We do podcasts every Wednesday night at six pm Eastern

(01:23:05):
Standard Times called a Biscayzing, a horror podcast where we
celebrate all things spooky and mental health. Go check out
our episode that we had Dan on to talk about
Sean of the Dead. It was first time viewing for me,
but somehow we also ended up talking about the Cornetto
trilogy as Winter woven throughout. It's great trilogy.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
Great trilogy, such such a great trilogy, and I'll acknowledge
and I apologize wheneber I'm on these shows, I get
a little off topic and we kind of weave in
and out of different things. How many movies did we
talk about in this episode that aren't Mission Impossible related?

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Uh? Lost count so many times it happens.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
But yeah, that Sean of the Dead episode was a
lot of fun. Let's definitely do a hot Fuzz episode
at some point in the future, because that is definitely
my favorite comedy ever is Hot Fuzzs, So I love
to chat about it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Mick fuzz is like, it's so good, so good. Hot
fun is like one of the is I like keep
on letterbox that keep like anything it's released out of
the year. I I think it like sits right now
ranked at like number five of like three hundred some
movies I've seen this year, so it's it's very good.

(01:24:16):
I loved that movie. But anyway, we will back tomorrow
talk about So here's what we're gonna do for the
next episode. The next episode, we're gonna do Rogue Nation.
Victims and Villains did an episode on its original release
to talk about fallout, so I'm gonna plug that and
then we're gonna skip ahead to Dead Reckoning and then

(01:24:36):
we're gonna end this bad boy with the final Reckoning.
So that's our plans for next episode. So Victims and
Villains dot Net check out the old episode. So until tomorrow,
keep it classy. You say that of you and know

(01:25:01):
you are love.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Drop that nief off of your spit those pills out
of your mouth, leave the come out of your head,
and know you are loved.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
You are alive, You're not alone. Don't be afraid, and
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Mission: Impossible (Three & Ghost Protocol) | Episode #475

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mission: Impossible (Three & Ghost Protocol) | Episode #475