November 7, 2024 • 62 mins
Welcome to Thankful Thursdays, a new series from Victims and Villains, where every Thursday in November we’ll be looking at movies we are thankful for. Up first we sit down with our tour mates, Wine & Warpaint to discuss a movie they are extremely thankful for with 2016’s Popstar: Never Stop Never Stopping. In this episode, we’ll chronicle the impact of second chances, the importance of mental health and community, art and more.
If you or someone you know is reading this right now and struggling with suicide, depression, addiction, or self-harm - please reach out. Comment, message, or tweet at us. Go to victimsandvillains.net/hope for more resources. Call the suicide lifeline at 988. Text "HELP" to 741-741. There is hope & you DO have so much value and worth!
This episode of Victims and Villains is written by Josh “Captain Nostalgia” Burkey. It is produced by Burkey. Music by Mallory Jameson (https://bit.ly/expandmal) & Purple Planet (https://bit.ly/ppcoms). Help us get mental health resources into schools and get exclusive content at the same time. Click here (http://bit.ly/vavpatreon) to support us today!
If you or someone you know is reading this right now and struggling with suicide, depression, addiction, or self-harm - please reach out. Comment, message, or tweet at us. Go to victimsandvillains.net/hope for more resources. Call the suicide lifeline at 988. Text "HELP" to 741-741. There is hope & you DO have so much value and worth!
This episode of Victims and Villains is written by Josh “Captain Nostalgia” Burkey. It is produced by Burkey. Music by Mallory Jameson (https://bit.ly/expandmal) & Purple Planet (https://bit.ly/ppcoms). Help us get mental health resources into schools and get exclusive content at the same time. Click here (http://bit.ly/vavpatreon) to support us today!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to the Victims and Villain's podcast feed. This is
the home the extension of the Not multimedia nonprofit that
talks about mental health through pop culture. If you guys
we've never met before. My name is Josh and we're
in a series right now called Thankful Thursdays, where every
Thursday we are giving thanks for movies that we are
(00:28):
thankful for. And this is our kickoff episode. So this
is a cool little thing to do. But I am
joined by a man that I'm very thankful for this year,
and he's brought me a movie that he is very
thankful for that exists so much so that if you're
watching this, he's wearing he's wearing the T shirt of
(00:51):
the movie we're talking about right now, you could you
could check it out on Patreon see the video version.
I'm joined by Brandon O'Neil, vocalist and the guitarist from
the band Wine and War Paint.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Let's go Baby, Thank you, Josh. I'm very excited to
be here, very excited to be talking about pop star.
Might even break out a donkey roll or two. Uh
lots of Lord to get into and very very pumped.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, where to start?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Ever since I was born, I loved music as soon
as I could. I started a band right away.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We knew he was something special.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I said, Man, this guy right here, he's gonna make
it big.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Call it for real.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
He's actually saving the record industry. Everybody's just waiting to
seem like what he does next.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Cons you tell me you didn't see him and say, yo,
he's the stars.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Kind of all expressive.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Connor currently is thirty two people on his personal payroll.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Sure, Connor surrounds himself with people who are agreeable.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Or like Cartney and Kanye and yeah, I was.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
All my woodwork.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
It's kind of my passion as it as a mask.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Still means.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I'd love to get Connor to the point where he's
just kind of everywhere, like oxygen or gravity or clinical depression.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
He's just everywhere.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I make sure all the instruments are tiptop.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
No one really plays guitar, but we got him here
in case he wants on.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Debra's a genius. It's pronounced to bora. What's the origin
of that? I believe, Deborah.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It's not a competition, man. You give me because I'm
so in a way.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Being gracious is my weakness. People say so PRETENTI you know,
it takes a village to make me lookd oup.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I haven't seen this movie since it's initial theatrical run,
and I don't remember why. I didn't feel like I liked,
didn't necessarily like it originally, and I was like I was.
I came back after the rewatch on this for this
episode and I was like, man, so dumb, Like what
(03:38):
is wrong with me? Like this movie is great?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I couldn't agree more. I did not see it in theaters.
This Actually I don't know how what direction we're going
to go with this, but I know a lot about
this movie is this is one of my top five
favorite movies. It's a lot of it is skewed because
I love obviously like being musician, playing in bands. I
love music movies, and so School of Rock was like
(04:04):
number one, still is top five and then so this
was always going to be skewed heavy for me. But
the part of what was going on when they released it,
and this is part of the issue with because it
was a big box office flop, there were like three
Justin Bieber jokes in the whole movie, and they put
all three of them in the trailer and named the
(04:26):
movie kind of in a Justin Bieber esque roast, And
that's part of what the theory is as to why
people weren't super interested in it because they thought it
was just going to be a weird Justin Bieber knockoff,
when really it was taking aim at the entire music industry.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
But yeah, this is kind of this movie is like
a lot smarter than I remember, and I think originally
like I wanted something that was like to the level
of stupidity that irrelevance that hot Rod had, and this
one felt like a really like almost kind of like
(05:03):
felt like a next generation's version of Walk Hard, where
it kind of like took the biopic genre and like
just kind of made it as like ridiculous as possible
and satirized kind of the entire music industry, but also
at the same time this entire level of just like
(05:27):
a biopic, because I mean this was like around the
time that there was just such a heavy like flow
of biopics that we were getting like once, you know,
at least one or two a year.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Absolutely, that's another thing.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
I Mean.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
A bunch of reviews compared it favorably as like a
modern spinal Tap too, which like I don't know that
it got that got to that point, but there's a
lot to be said about like it took aim at
things relevant in the modern space because like everything has
changed some I think everything has changed so much, especially
in the past fifteen years. The movie came out in
(06:05):
twenty sixteen, so almost ten years later, but like right
at that point, like there was so much more and
different things to say than a traditional like mockumentary music movie.
And so to me, that's why it exists in this
interesting space as well, Like even even compared to some
of those other ones, even if people wouldn't match it
up merit wise, there you can at least match it
(06:26):
up in terms of what it says and what it
has to say. Even if you hate it, which I don't,
I love it, but yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, I think this is a movie that like warrants
a few watches than because it's not just something that
you I feel like you can swallow just watching once.
Like it's something that needs to kind of allow to
time to like watch over you and like really decompress.
Like I watched it this morning and like I've been
thinking about it all day and I'm just like, man,
I'm like, I, you know, Lonely Island I think just
(06:58):
kind of doesn't get the credit that they deserve past
Saturday Night Live, because I mean, they've created like legitimately
great music on top of like some just truly phenomenal
comedies in the last you know, ten fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's pretty wild. We are big Lonely Island fans in
our house. In the most recent Lonely Island song that
is new as of this current season of SNL being
Sushi Gloriole would highly recommend if we haven't seen that yet,
my wife Scotty's dressing up as hot Rod this year,
(07:39):
so we are there's a certain there's a certain we
have a certain pensiant for their style, There's no doubt
about that. But part of one of one of the
things I'll call out about Lonely Island in particular, not
all of their stuff hits for me, and not every
joke lands in this movie for me either, But I
(08:00):
almost prefer that in my media and in my content,
in my art. It's great when everything lands, but also
knowing that everything can't land for everyone means that I
appreciate when people take swings that make sense to them
as artists, and so I feel like that happens a
lot in this movie. It certainly happens with a lot
(08:20):
of their other work. I'm not even a huge hot
Rod fan. I want to be. I watch it and
I'm like, man, I wish I was digging this, but
it some of it. It's a little too dry for me.
I need some of the polish that pop Star has.
But they even some of their other work. Yeah, not
a huge hor Rod fan. And then what was the
(08:42):
thing they did for Netflix about the baseball players?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh? I literally just saw that was the Unauthorized.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
The Unauthorized Bash Brothers experience. I watched half of that
and was like, I don't know what this is, guys.
But that's also kind of part of what I appreciate
about it. And I think that ethos that made its
way into pop Star, which is they're very art forward.
They're very much we can't make everything for everyone, so
we're gonna make stuff that fits what we do and
what we think works, and then if it hits, it hits.
(09:12):
It's just a very pure style of art making that
I try to emulate that and and that connects with me.
Even when I don't connect with the work itself. Again,
everything almost everything that happens in Pop Star I connect with.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But yeah, I agree with that. I think that that's
one of the things that I've always really admired about
Andy Sandberg as a creator and as a talent is
that he is just kind of unapologetic, like he's gonna
do what he wants to do. And I think, you know,
things like the Bash Brothers or Seven Days in Hell,
(09:46):
which was kind of like a short mockumentary about him
doing tennis with crazy John McEnroe hair and you know, mullets,
and but you know this movie, and then hot Rod
and then you know, even even like Palm Springs, I
think is another great example is that he and Brooklyn
(10:09):
ninety nine. And there's so much about his filmography past
or post Saturday Night Live that you can you can
talk about that I think in one way or another,
like he just wants to make art. That is like
making art for art's sake, you know, And and what
makes his filmography is so special is I think, you know,
(10:32):
one of the things that's really worth noting is that
there's such a long gap between the release of hot
Rod and pop star that when you look at when
you look at hot Rod, I think you might be
the only person I've met that did not like it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
There's a lot of us out there because not a
lot of people saw that movie.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Not a lot of people saw it, but it kind
of was one of those things that, like it gained
a life past this one, like you know, a couple
of the other movies that we talked at we're talking
about in this series, and I think that just kind
of speaks to the longevity of the art that they do.
Like you know, there's a while a lot of the
(11:15):
music and a lot of the stuff that takes place
within this movie is definitely a period piece around the
time that was released. There's also this like timeless era
around its themes, and I would even argue it's narrative.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
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Speaker 2 (13:14):
I completely agree with that. Yeah, I think this is
just gonna be us agreeing a bunch, which is fine.
But I like your comment on narrative. That's part of
what I connect with, and also what I connected with
with hot Rod if there was, because I finished watching
hot Rod recently was like, I want to watch this
again just to kind of because I think it can seek.
(13:37):
I think it can sink in. I see how it
could sink in. But I remember reading about the Zach
Galfnakis doing the Between Two Ferns movie and how one
of the movies they consulted was pop Star, Like they
watched that as as inspiration, because you can't make a
sketch movie that is just a two hour sketch and
(13:57):
at least one that has longevity. I suppose you could,
and people do. But the ones that have staying power,
I think are the ones that go with some sort
of like firm narrative. And that's part of what I
appreciate about pop Stars. Kind of a movie about friendship,
Like if you were to like kind of write the
theme about it, it's about like rolling with the people
(14:17):
who were with you at the beginning and to summarize
like a movie with like the same movie has been
that has been laden in it as the song is
like that, that would be how you would summarize. The
movie is kind of asinine, and that's part of what
I love about it. But the narrative's inexplicably driven for
me in terms of my ability to connect with it
(14:39):
because I don't know. I actually suppose I don't know
why that is. It's just said because, but I'm not
sure why that is. Do you have a thought on that,
Like why is it that? I feel like I need
that narrative in order to appreciate this movie. This movie
is a two hour sketch. Somehow I need it to
be about friendship in order for it to act for
me to actually care.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I think it just shows that you know a that
The Lonely Islander are good at writing characters that connect
with people. You know, character journeys, like when you look
at hot Rod, like hot Rod's literal entire journey is
Rod just trying to earn respect from his steps, Like
that's the entirety of it. And when you when you
boil down this this is the story of a boy
(15:25):
band singer got a little bit too big, you know,
kind of thought that he was hot shit and then
eventually was kind of humbled pun intended, and you know,
he eventually kind of like rediscovers what you know kind
of and it kind of has that this like era
of to classify simply like it's a it's a story
(15:48):
about friendship, like you're saying, but also at the same time,
it's this tale of a group of gentlemen that are essentially,
you know, trying to like reconnect and trying to find themselves.
And I think, you know, I think about my own
personal journey, and I think about the people that I
(16:10):
call like some of my best friends, like I have
had to go through some like really tough stuff with
them and had you know, my best friend lives in
in Bama. He was just featured on a biscazing a
couple of weeks ago, and for me and him, our
relationship we connected over music and then we went like
(16:33):
six years without talking and now we talk every day.
And it's kind of one of these things where it's
like I feel like the community that is gonna be
vital for your mental health and allow the longevity really
has to be the people that are you know, gonna
(16:54):
be there to champion that journey with you, but also
the same time that sometimes aren't afraid to kind of
call you out on your shit and then will be
willing to accept you for who you are kind of
wants you. Guys have kind of found that common ground
again if you do end up losing your way.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, absolutely, There's the thing that comes to mind is
part of to like land the plane with that with
pop Star is uh, this sounds all very silly because
the movie is a very silly movie. It's he names
his he calls his turtle his best friend, who's named Maximus.
When the turtle dies, the second turtle he gets is
(17:37):
called Maximus two, and it's just it is a very
it's a dumb, silly movie. And there's one scene in
it where he is apologizing to Akiva Shaffer's character and uh,
he's saying, I'm sorry, but he like gradually each it's
(17:58):
this whole bit where he was like, I was there,
I wrote it, and you're just jealous, and then it
comes to all the way to he wasn't even in
the room when he wrote the catchphrase verse And it's
a beautiful piece of acting by Andy sambergan this movie
like that this is a scene that I would call
out and like that I would people should check out
(18:19):
because it's it was this little glimpse of like, oh
my gosh, this is like the Brooklyn nine nine, like Chops,
And then you watch Palm Springs especially, and you're like,
oh my gosh, dude can act and it's he go
he swallows and he like kind of looks up and
you see this look on this guy's face. This has
been a caricature the whole movie, and he goes he
literally just says I'm sorry, and like he actually delivers it,
(18:41):
and they knew. It's like they know that this is
like the thing that we need. We need this to
be true in this moment. We need to earn this moment,
and it's only going to be done from like true drama,
which is so weird because like you wouldn't like the
rest of the movie doesn't really play around with that.
But they're like, no, this is like the thrust of
the whole movie. This exchange right here, but with this
(19:02):
reconciliation of the two friends, and it's punctuated. But I
think the most serious part in the whole movie is
literally him saying two words where he says, I'm sorry
out of this world. That that is included in a
movie like this, it's absolutely crazy that we get that
amidst these are the things in my jeep like, which
(19:25):
is just really incredible. That combined with like that theme
being a huge theme the other themes of like kind
of what we were talking about earlier, with the true
nature of authentic art making that they're playing around in
this pop space with all these big name cameos and
(19:46):
the movie is of you know, a very pop art
structure of movie with a lot of like big budget
funding and everything, but with all these little subversion subversions
that they make about art making in itself where they're
saying they're they're embodying this punk ethos of like, well,
(20:07):
you really should be writing your own stuff and you
should be you know, working with your friends, and like
you should be like not caring about how things are
gonna sell. They're obviously like dealing with the duality of
all that just because they're making a big budget movie
that was you know, released by Universal Pictures. But you
have that when uh ah, I need to get all
(20:30):
the characters' names because I keep forgetting I'm gonna I'm
gonna pause for a second. Okay, so Owen and Lawrence
so Owen's talking about his gear before they are when
they're doing this big arena tour and he's like, got
these all these old cool syns and they're like, cool,
do you use this for any of this, any of
(20:51):
the old any of the Connor stuff. He's like, oh,
Connor set no, No, I got iPod sixty gigs and he
like pushes go on it, and it's like that's the
whole thing, and it's the subversion where they're just like, no,
you need to care about what you're doing. You need
to care about the art you're making. And then that's
juxtaposed with them at the end when they're all like
making the art together, like and then I guess it's
(21:12):
also I'm finding this train of thought as I'm saying it.
They land the plane with that too, because Connor's like,
the lesson here is to just make art with my
friends and like don't worry about it. And then his
friends are like, dude, no, Like we can go do
the pop like you can go do the poppies, like
you can do both, like you can release a universal
pictures release movie and also care about like making cool
art that isn't necessarily universally applicable, which is dope, which.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I think is really interesting to note. Like the and
kind of speak on like almost like toxic friendships in
that way to where you think that like you have
to sacrifice something that you're really passionate about, really good
at in Connor's case, to or you know, keep this
and we they kind of have this like back and
(21:58):
forth kind of moment because like at the Poppies too,
he is like, oh, you know, the State chant comes out.
She's like, oh, we're running over. You got three minutes
instead of six minutes. And now he's got to decide
like do I do my solo stuff, do I do
the the style boys? You know, which direction do I
end up going in? And but it calls back to
(22:20):
that scene with Lawrence where you know they've been beafing
this entire movie up to this point and he basically
looks at Connor. He's like, you don't have to sacrifice
what you love for us. You know, it's not your
career or us. And that is the evidence I think
(22:41):
of just like good support system and people that are
going to be authentically like champing you on, because at
the end of the day comes back to this conversation
of we create art because it's a form of therapy,
because it's a form of mental health. You know, it's
a it's a good exercise in that and essentially you're
(23:03):
asking someone to sacrifice something that there is benefits their
mental health for something that might not benefit in the end, right.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah. And the fact that they are able to make
that clear in the theming is like really really cool
for such a again, such a silly movie.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, I mean I think it's I also like want
to just throw this out there. Not a lot of
people know this, but Andy Samberg actually did like outside
of Palm Springs, like a full fledged like drama earlier
this year where really he did. He started opposite with
Kate Winslet. The movie is called Lee, and he is
(23:41):
phenomenal in it. So I just want to put that
on people's radars that if you are a fan of
Andy Samberg, want to see him go like full fledged
drama movies called Lee.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
L It's great, Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I'm kind of curious, like where you'd like to go
with this since you're the this is like one of
your favorite favorite I have a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So I was sitting here, I've been thinking about that.
So there's a couple of reasons, a couple of reasons that.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I love this movie so much. One thing that we've
kind of been dancing around that I'll just briefly touch
on again is the form of this movie.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
So it it is the type of art that I
love the most, which is accessibility with rough edges, with
a punk ethos and a like a art first mentality,
but still accessible. I have a ton of respect for
(24:38):
art that is made kind of full fledged in that
zone where it's they're going for straight non esthetic or
straight subversion, and and I think that stuff is really
cool and really valuable and very brave. I just don't
care about it. And so when I can get when
the way that you can get me to pay attention
is to have a little bit of that accessibility. But
(24:59):
then if you can like kind of subtly carve in
or like insert in some of these other elements that
show me that you know what you're doing or show
me that you have more to say besides just you know,
commercializing your art, then that's like, my sweet spot you
just at a personal level. And so that's what I
love about this movie. Similar to what we were talking about,
Like they were like, no, we're gonna do typical three
(25:21):
act structure. We're gonna have like some you know, overarching themes.
It's not gonna be one to two hour long sketch.
But then we're gonna insert these little things in between
it where we're gonna do a song called Los Bendidos
for no reason and it just sounds ridiculous, And we're
gonna have Seal get attacked by wolves, and like we're
gonna have like Ashley Wednesday uppearing in, like doing a
(25:46):
reprise of the Mona Lisa song from earlier, like doesn't
make it like it's weird, and I don't like it,
And that's part of why I like it. So that's
one thing is the form nature of it. The other
thing about it is the reason I love this movie
is because of one line in it, And this is
totally where it unlocked to me everything else that I
(26:06):
love about the movie was this one line when Connor
is signing up for the corporate sponsorship where they were
going to release his new album Conquest in all of
the appliances around the world. They would just show up
(26:26):
in the appliances, which is literally what you two did
when they released their new album, just appeared on everyone's iPhone.
Nobody bought it, it was just there, so a clear call
to that, and Owen says, I don't know, man, this
feels weird, Like don't you think like people aren't gonna
like that, like you know, you just appear in their
(26:47):
homes and like that, they didn't ask you to be there.
And Connor's response was, Owen, you don't understand. There's no
such thing as selling out anymore. If you don't sell out,
people will wonder if no one asked you to. And
that is why I like this movie. This is something
I've been thinking about for a really long time. When
I was coming up, probably you can really with this.
(27:07):
When we were coming up, there was like a thrust
in like you know, between two thousand and five and
twenty ten, where it was a big deal whether or
not people were actually writing their songs, whether or not
they were actually performing live, whether or not they were singing,
whether or not they were using auto tune. There was
(27:28):
that whole authenticity boom and movement that was happening in
that people were really focused and stoked on and then
somewhere along the way it's just gone. And I think
I know the reason, at least I have a theory
of which the reason is is because virality wasn't really
a thing during that time, Like there was like discovery
(27:49):
happening online, but there wasn't necessarily a ton of viral
moments until YouTube really led the charge with that. But
even like with pre TikTok, pre Instagram, like there wasn't
a ton of virality, and so people were springing up grassroots,
but they were the first ones to be doing it,
and so there wasn't this thought and this energy surrounding
(28:12):
anyone can spring up and be huge overnight and all
you have to do is play the game right, and
then you can also do it. Because that started to happen,
people stopped calling it out because they want it for themselves.
Like we're not comfortable saying, hey, you're betraying your art
by trying to be viral, because we want to be viral,
(28:33):
because all the people who would be calling it out
also want to be viral, and so like we're not
comfortable saying like, hey, I don't know if you should
have signed on to that sponsorship for that tour, because
that is like, you know, that's not a great company,
and it just doesn't communicate the right thing. Plus like
it's not really like a part of your brand. It
(28:53):
just seems like you're just selling out. It seems like
you're just like going for the money. You're not like
elevating other ethos above just making money and being profitable.
But because we so desperately want our own sponsorship on
our own tours, we're not calling that stuff out. And
to me, that was the most significant part of how
I evalidated art was or how I how I like
(29:18):
viewed it, how I I can't think of my word right,
I can't think the word, But how I like decided
what the art was that I connected with was that
authenticity through and through at every level, from the creation
to the execution to the brand itself. That was always
really important to me, and I thought it was important
(29:38):
to all of us. It was important to a lot
of people. And then now it's just like people just
are all cloud chasing. We're all cloud chasing. I'm cloud
chasing as an artist. All my friends are artists, Like
the best ones among us all have a certain degree
of cloud chasing, and we're so willing to set aside
these things that we used to hold in high esteem
that I thought led to better art and led to
(30:00):
better people. And so that being expressed in this movie,
which again big budget, major studio, they're you know, singing
pop like in English, they're rapping like it is. It
is not, you know, high art movie, but it has
that accessibility that's then saying these things that I think matter.
(30:22):
And so that's my soapbox on it. That's why I
love this movie. And that's like what I think is
going to be best for people and for art moving
forward is we can find some way to like retain
that authenticity and also really what we need to be
doing is to figure out how to market ourselves in
ways that don't like betray our character.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, I think I think about you. On that note,
I also think about Hunter's journey throughout the course of
this movie Where's going to Eat? He basically ends up
being this like you know, really endy di I y
apper that kind of blew right, and then from there
(31:05):
like he is now in this this space where by
his last scene he is essentially plugging these this appliance company,
Aquas Spin, I think is what they're called. Okay, I
just wanted to make sure I got that right.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
That's right, because he's given the speech of the poppy he's.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Talking about and like right even right right now.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Like.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Well, you know, I think social media has changed the
way that we look at music and we we look
at art period, you know. Now, you know, when we
were coming up around that two thousand and like five
to like two thousand and eight era of vine was
something that you know from our generation that I sounds
(31:55):
so old, but you know, it was kind of like
the pre TikTok. You know, you made these like short
little skits and they were funny and fringe.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
You know, they didn't have mainstream crossover like they do now.
Like now it's a whole business plan. People create whole
business plans on making their their TikTok mainstream.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, And that's part of the thing with you know,
with TikTok is like having friends that have made over
this last year of victims hosting shows and you know,
being more involved in the music scene is you know,
basically the thing that like I find commonality wise is
like you have to keep creating content to stay relevant
(32:37):
and that just that sounds exhausting, like, but it is
like that name of the game, because like what you're
saying is like if you don't, then you just kind
of a disappear. But also you're losing your chance for
that virality because it's fleeting and I think it is
(33:00):
and like that's that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
In any moment, and if you're not playing the game,
then you can't win.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I'm also curious, like, you know what happens once you
hit that virality, Like do do we still have you know,
fifteen minutes of fame? Is that still applicable here or
is that kind of you know, I mean it sounds
dumb to think about, but when you think about this conversation,
I think about Hailey, Hailey Wells. I think it's her name,
(33:25):
the Hawk to a girl, Oh yeah, you know, and
like now.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
She's just created the whole media empire.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, and it's like, do we not believe in like
fifteen minutes of fame? Like I mean, I I appreciate
her journey because you know, she basically took like an
offhanded sex joke and created it and made it into
something meaningful, you know, and deep and you know intentional,
but not everyone's gonna be like that. How would you
guys like to help us get mental health resources into schools, conventions,
(33:55):
and other events. Well, now you can simply go to
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Speaker 6 (34:02):
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Speaker 1 (34:05):
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Speaker 2 (34:52):
Right. Yes, I think that the fifteen minutes thing is
like it is so much less important than your day
to day like even as an artist, it's just like
I would I'm almost seeing these viral moments as just
like it's it's not even I was thinking of an
(35:14):
analogy being fuel on the fire, but it's really more
it's like putting like lighter fluid on a fire, because
it just burns hot and then it's gone. And so
if you didn't have a good fire to start with,
then this is a great analogy. Actually more infliction it
out if you didn't have a good fire to start with,
it just burns up and then goes away and then
nothing happens and you're back to square one. Or if
(35:36):
like you know, you you had a bunch of like
gross things kind of piled around the fire, like you know,
plastics and nasty like you know, rotted stuff, and that
all catches and then you're releasing this like nasty, rotted,
terrible fumes and you're just polluting the environment that you
use this viral moment to just like make what you
had at the base level just that badness go out
(35:58):
into the into the eye atmosphere. That's one side of it.
But also if you're like build and steady and you're
tending to it, someone throws a big flash on it
and it's like Wow, Wow, that was crazy. That was awesome,
and then it dies down like it always does. But
then that helped to catch some of your good tender
that you had like set around the side. That's the
stuff I'm interested in, Like, that's the stuff that matters.
(36:20):
So it's like it's not to say that, like we won't,
we don't want that flash like that flash helps. But
but in my opinion, the flash only helps so much
as it like helps you to like build up what
you were already doing, because it is so insignificant in
the course of your life. Because I mean, what is
what is our work if not just like a combination
(36:41):
of our days and what is like being an artist
or being a being a content creator other than just
being a human being? Just the stuff that we decide
to do while we have this little fleeting moment. So
like we have to keep that stuff at the forefront
where it's It can't be about the thing. It has
to be about what the thing enables us at a
core level, like when we're sitting like in the in
(37:03):
between moments waiting for something like that to happen. What
is more, what is the most important thing? The most
important thing has to be what we're doing in those
in between moments, because that flame could be good, it
could be bad, it could be nothing. It literally could
just be a flash and then nothing happens, So like
who gives it crap? Like it's so much more important
to be like tending those in between moments so that
(37:24):
if something happens, it can be significant in a good way.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
I think one of the things that I've been you know,
we we obviously create content from you know, two different
spectrums where your music come mostly you know, podcasting and
events and stuff like that. But you know, the kind
of the same basis and same application are are applicable there.
And one of the things that I've been trying to
(37:50):
be more intentional about is been my time and the
relationships because I think those a lot of those things
go in hands, and you know, it's some of you know,
some of the podcasting, some of we've been doing this
now for eight years, and so some of the some
of the guests that I've had, you know, have been
(38:12):
on and off. You know, they've they've been in my
life as quickly as they they were in good conversation,
but you know, we just never kind of did anything
past it. And I you know, I look at even
our relationship like I don't I don't know necessarily that
when I booked you guys for our Saint Patty's Day
show earlier this year, that you know, two weeks from
(38:36):
from when we're recording this, that we would be gearing
up for a five day tour like that was that
was never something and you know, just kind of getting
you know, just something, you know, getting to know you
and uh, you know the rest of the band has
been a real treat and it's been something that I've
(38:56):
enjoyed doing. But it's those moments of intentionality and listening
and responding and being present for people and supportive that
whether it's it's you and I or it's something and
an entire other relationship or you know, tire other circumstances
like you know, being intentional about that. And sometimes I
(39:22):
think we get so wrapped up in that social media
effect where it's like I have to capture this right
now because Piston or it didn't happen right or you know,
content creation because I need to think and I need
I need to have this song go viral or this
(39:42):
chorus or you know whatever. But it's like, hey, make
art for art's sake, and then be intentional about you know,
the people that are celebrating your art and that are
coming alongside of you. And I think art gives us
a platform to also speak and just have a beautiful
(40:02):
time to also like build a healthy community as well.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
Yeah, and that is a.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Firmly reflected in the themes of pop Start Never Stopped,
Never Stopped.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
So that's all to say, you know, that stuff is
very top of mind for this movie. So it's the.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Uh, the line such as uh seal Team sixty nine
sex acute in the Hits, which is my.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Favorite line ever written by anyone in any song. It
all is intertwined.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
This conversation is about friendship and virality.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And and uh you know, art for art's sake, all encapsulated.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
You know, it's all right there.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Well, I'm curious if if you come equip with so
for this series, I have been the one pulling out
film trivia. I am curious if you're a big enough
fan to know any hidden facts about the spot I.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Gave away probably some of my my best ones already.
Man if I hadn't known, yeah, oh man, how about this?
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (41:36):
So I actually don't know if this is interesting or not.
The chef in this movie Connor's chef. Yeah, Tys Tyris
Tyris Quash.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
Yes, I suppose. I don't know how to phrase this
is a question. Just we do?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
We all know that's just played by Justin Timberley, uncredited
as a lot of the cameos where it was uncredited,
he had many lines in the movie, played significant role
in the movie, uncredited role. He just shows up as
Tyres Squash. Here's a there's another piece of trivia. Every
single one of the Lonely Islands wives appear in the movie.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
I so I have the IMDb pulled up here the
trivia facts, and it does say that the Poppies producer
is a Kiva Scaper's real life wife.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yes, and uh, the doctor for Bill Hayter's roady flatline
Sash f Line Sash was also I think I'm on
Wikipedia right now, that's Akiva Shaeffer's wife. Oh no, no, you're right,
you're right. You had that before. I think it was
yourma's wife. Nope, it was Andy's wife. Joined a newsom
(42:58):
We're gonna land on it. It was one of the
three one of my favorite parts in the whole movie
when he is talking about how he has all these
guitars around. They don't use guitars, but just in case
he wants him, he's got him. He's knocking him over.
And he says he loves doing flatlining, like in the
movie flat Liners, likes to get in an f line.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Sessh so silly, Bill, I so typically would I podcast.
I've got like a notebook that like I'll take notes on.
I gave up in the first twenty minutes of this
movie because every time I'd be like, I'd like write
down a line, then like another line would like come up,
and I'm just like, there's so many there's so many
good moments in this movie that whether you're talking about
(43:43):
like Bill Hater's like two scenes in this movie, or
you know you're talking about uh, Tim Meadows also in
this movie so good. I love Tim Meadows. Like I
had the biggest smile on my face when they were
at the Poppies and he comes in and uh on
the saxophone and that like grand finale, Like my heart
(44:07):
just skipped a beat watching him, just in all of
his joy. And I love the fact that everything, every
decision Tim Meadows has made in the last you know,
twenty years post Saturday Night Live have just been some
of the best like performances of his entire career.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Tony Tony, Tony Tony, And he wanted to add a
question mark, he did not.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
It is so good.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
No, my always my big one is just like how
much did it cost and how.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
Much did it make? That's the one I usually give people.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I'm kind of curious about that because, like I remember
this being in theaters, but I also remember it being
out of theaters really quickly. Yeah, And I think it's
that's kind of the I just don't know if like
there's like not a not an audience for like Lonely Islands,
because I don't think they tore right.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I don't think it's not as the Lonely Island now.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
So, like, I'm just kind of curious because like some
of the best things that Andy Samberg has done in
his career have just kind of been these like flops.
Because Hot Rot I think was also.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Also a big flop. Yeah, cost some twenty twenty million
to make. They made ten million, so that's a firm loss.
Firm loss. I mean, twenty million is not even that
much by all these like standards.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
It's not, but you also have to take into accounts
that's just what it costs to make the movie, to
be marketing and all that. Yeah, typically marketing is another,
you know, half of that. So if not doubling, so
most most analyzers will set tell you to take that
budget and double it. And so now you're looking at
(45:58):
anywhere between a twenty to thirty million dollar loss.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
For Universal, Yes, which is insane.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
It might also be the reason that like, this movie
is like incredibly hard to find.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Uh not if you want a digital copy of it,
Like I do you watch it all the time?
Speaker 5 (46:15):
Yeah, very easy to find. It was on Max right now.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I found it at my library, Like I couldn't find
it on the Uh is it a Max?
Speaker 5 (46:23):
I think it was at least maybe it just rolled off,
but it.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Was Yeah, I like, I like when to go find it?
I was like, couldn't find it anywhere, and then I
was like, oh, just check my local library. Sure enough
they had it.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
So yeah, I'll give you one cameo trivia.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
This is just from like straight memory of the movie
which person said that Connor for real is the reason
he dances.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Usher is Usher, which is so crazy to me because yeah,
which probably like also is gives one of the best
like through like unintentional cameos. Uh uh that were At
the end, He's like, I danced with this, I did,
(47:07):
I did the donkey. My life is made. But I'll
go ahead and I'll roll out some trivia here for you.
So most of the shots of the large crowd were
actually footage of one direction concerts.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
Oh wow, did not know that?
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Uh So In this movie also, probably one of the
best cameos of all time is when Connor's trying to
kind of you know, redirect his his whole dickless uh
miss misshad So he agrees to like propose to to
Ashley ash Wednesday and seals there. So that that scene
(47:58):
where he talks about like the scar on his face, Yeah,
so it's actually from a autoimmune disease called lupus. But
the scientific name for wolves is cannics. Loopis so he.
Speaker 5 (48:14):
Was lying, no, it was wolves.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah. Uh so the the real life Rappers cameos that
you see in here, uh nas has to have one
of the best cameos when they kind of go off
and have that side quest about like Lawrence's career after
the Style Boys and UNA's was just like, yeah, like,
(48:42):
I just didn't connect with that. I have different things
in my jeep.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Really, you're said, so good. I didn't really connect with
that song. See different things in my team, so good.
That's why that's it's not universal, you know, it's gotta
have some sort of universality. It's a good lesson, another
good lesson from pop star.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Which is what makes it Lonely Island. Yes, yes, but yeah,
so the the real life rappers are from, like you know,
fifty cents to Naas talk about their loves of the
Style Boys was never never scripted. The responses were based
on the questions asked by the Lonely Island as if
they were the real life rap group Beastie Boys.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
They just.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Respond yeah, so good, good, that's the way.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
That's the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Oh, there's a lot of more trivia apparently. Uh dun
dun dun dun dumn.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
One of my favorite songs from the entire movie is
a bonus track that is not in the movie, and
I highly recommend listening to it. It's called fuck Off,
and it's told from the perspective of little kids telling
the adults in their lives to fuck off. And the
(50:17):
hook of it is, uh, I'm gonna live forever, which
is just brilliant writing in general. But I also they
use that joke often in Brooklyn nine nine, that same
joke of I'm invincible and he literally says I'm going
(50:37):
to live forever, which is just excellent irony.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
I mean, though, when you create art, isn't it actually uh?
I mean, can't you actually say that like your art?
Technically with your art, you're going to live forever to
some degree. So, yeah, this was Andy Samberg and Judd
Apatow's first collaboration. I didn't even know he was involved
(51:06):
in this movie.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Yeah, he was big credit and he was his second
name in the trailer after Lonely Island.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Also, I get it a little bit from my mom,
but I do enjoy some trash TV. Yeah, And so
I think it's also worth mentioning that when you're talking
about this time period, not quite in like the late
twenty tens, the mid twenty tens by this time, but
(51:36):
the early twenty tens was like when TMZ really kind
of got the ball rolling on, kind of like that
like celebrity gossip. And I loved that the film had
their own version of that called CMZ CMZ that was
(51:58):
headed by Will Arnett. Yes, okay, I thought so, and.
Speaker 5 (52:06):
Chelsea Peretti another Brooklyn nine nine cast, remember.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yes, and uh, Eric Andre is in that and then
the blonde guy like so when you brought up like
justin Timberlake, I being uncredited for this movie. I'm also
kind of curious if there are other members that are
also unm credited as well, because that blonde guy that
(52:32):
is sits in the back behind Eric Andre looks a
little bit like, shoot, what's his name? Why can I
not think of it? Arn kill him?
Speaker 5 (52:49):
Oh kill so?
Speaker 1 (52:51):
But Tarren Killm is in this movie. H he has
he has a brief cameo in this movie. He's not
he's it's not on his it's not on his like
IMDb credits. But when they're doing the the uh, the
few the Viking funeral for Maximus, if you as he's
like laying it down in there, there is a person
(53:13):
literally to the back, right back left, sorry of Connor,
that is Taran killam amazing.
Speaker 5 (53:26):
I'm gonna keep an eye on for that next time.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
So this movie was announced with its poster and its
movie on an episode of Jimmy Kimmel Live on February
twenty ninth, twenty sixteen, which is kind of weird to
me that it wouldn't be on Fallon given the fact
that Fallen is in this movie, right, Does that feel
like a confidentiality agreement, like conflict of interest kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Like, you know, I would think that, but you know,
they give Kimmel the announcement, they give foulon the on
screen time. You know, it all all comes out in
the wash. Plus they've got the NBC Universal connection, so
maybe there's something to play with there. But I believe
that Connor fur Reel made an appearance. Did he do
an interviewing character? I know he was on the voice.
(54:21):
I know he appeared on the voice. Connorfer Reel, Kim
on the Voice as part of the promotion. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
I brought this up originally at the beginning of the podcast,
but apparently Judd Apatow also produced Walkhart the Dewey cos
I feel like I feel that influence on this.
Speaker 5 (54:41):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Bomb, but a bomb that's all that is. And that's
all the trivia that I got. That's great, but a
lot of it was was repeat so.
Speaker 5 (54:58):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I feel like, yeah, I feel like I got nothing.
Oh you got a Style Boys shirt?
Speaker 4 (55:09):
There, we got it, got it all over here.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
I just need you to wear that the entire tour.
Speaker 5 (55:16):
I'm a style boy for life.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Where did you find that?
Speaker 5 (55:24):
Internet? Got it for Christmas?
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Okay, that's fair?
Speaker 5 (55:31):
Oh yeah, man, I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
Man, I don't. I don't really have anything else. I
think this movie. I'm really glad that I gave you
a rewatch and that you were like, yeah, I want
to do this movie because I have a new appreciation
for this movie now.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
I'm so thrilled to continue to pass along the joy
of pop Star never stopped, never stopping. I forced all
my friends to watch it who've never seen it, and
it gets it gets good reviews because it's a good movie.
It's just a good movie. Bottom line. Bottom line is
good movie. I always say, everything's dialed up to like ten.
Like the ridiculousness, the crudeness, the like commentary, the the
(56:12):
even like the the the narrative, themes, everything is kind
of cranked. And it's if any one of those doesn't
appeal to you, you can find it. It's somewhere else
in the movie.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
So that's part of the reason that I I I
think this movie does as well as it does. Like
another great example of that, you know, being is just
like uh, like you know, the the equal Right song
and then like bin Laden like they're they're two tone,
completely tone depth songs and in this movie. But then
(56:44):
like you also like a couple uh lines later like
you also have you know, like there's that song about
Spain in this movie and then that scene like where
he's like uh he basically flashes and stands naked in
front of you know, fifteen thousand people and a concert
(57:07):
that like it becomes this entire like media storm, and
you know, this movie just like hits on like a
lot of like really uncomfortable like things of just like
scenarios and just be like ah. But then like you
realize it's like there's it's that's what makes it so
freaking good.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yes, That's part of my my pitch to people is
just that everything is diled like and it's it's pushing
it at all the boundaries. It's like, which is which
is great? We have Maximus puking at one point, which
is disgusting.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Leave my turtles dying. I need to go to a doctor.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
You have the whole like dark scene where there's the
captions come up with them just like killing a bee
with a machine like a giant bee with a machine gun,
like just dumb stuff, a flamethrower, thank you, dumb stuff.
Speaker 5 (58:04):
So stupid.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, I think that's kind of what what makes it
like part of genius too, is that like there's you
know it, Connor is like one of the biggest like
assholes that you like can find in a movie like this,
But then at the same time, you like look and
you see like he's got this like spectacular redemption arc
(58:28):
at the at the end of it. And I think
that's part of the reason that I really enjoyed this
this coming back to it.
Speaker 5 (58:37):
But we can watch it on tour every night.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Yeah, I think that's a that's a good segue to
uh also plug the tour. You guys can go to
uh wind and Warpain dot com as well as Victims
and Villains dot net uh slash events to get a
full roster and if you guys come to we're also
doing a collab Hot Sauce as well.
Speaker 5 (59:01):
I'm delicious, Josh says, it's delicious.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
I've tried it. I I snuck it to it to
one of the to the dudes from UH from waters Deep,
and I was like, I really want to try this,
and so the guy like gave me a sample of
it and I was like, oh, this is dangerous. So
it's very good. It's very very good. But in the meantime,
I until then, where can people find wine and war paints?
Speaker 2 (59:27):
Come us and come on and hang on Instagram if
you're into that UH. If not, I applaud you. Go
to our website and sign up for our email list.
That's the best way to keep in touch. We're on
all of the social platforms other than that, and most importantly,
we'll come see everybody at the shows. We'll be in UH, Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Boyd's, Maryland, Richmond, Rono, Rapids,
(59:52):
North Carolina, and Ronoke No, No, Raleigh, Raleigh. The ours
ours confused runner Graphs is first and then the rest
of those are all in order. But there was no
reason for me to get that one data out of order.
But yeah, we've got we've got that tour coming up,
We've got a Christmas song coming out, We've got a
(01:00:14):
holiday show in Richmond. We're gonna end the year strong
and new music next year for sure, so.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
And I would encourage people to also go stream the
album's called Disassociate. It is one of my favorite albums
of the year. And I'm not I'm not just saying
that because you know, we're getting ready to go on
tour together. But uh, you know that's one of the
things that like, I'm I'm grateful for. I'll say this year,
(01:00:44):
you know, while we're getting into the season of gratitude,
and we talked about this, well you will hear this
several times, but gratitude and giving thanks that actually has
a thirty five percent chance of actually eliminating oppressive episodes.
And so I've been trying to give thanks more and so,
(01:01:06):
like I still feel when it comes to music that
I'm still somewhat of an outsider in certain certain extents.
But you know, I've I've appreciated you guys coming in
clutch for you know, playing our fundraiser show in October
and then you know, agreeing to let me be like
let me book a tour for you guys. And I've
(01:01:29):
just I've really valued our friendship over the just the
last six months and this year and just kind of
getting to see you guys grow and getting to know
you guys has been a real treat, So thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
Thanks Josh likewise man good.
Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
All right, Well we're gonna be back next week. Brandon
and I will be on the road, but we'll be
back here next week. Wherever you guys get your podcasts from,
hit that subscribe button, because next week we are giving
thanks for Big Fat Liar.
Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Ooh
Welcome to the Victims and Villain's podcast feed. This is
the home the extension of the Not multimedia nonprofit that
talks about mental health through pop culture. If you guys
we've never met before. My name is Josh and we're
in a series right now called Thankful Thursdays, where every
Thursday we are giving thanks for movies that we are
(00:28):
thankful for. And this is our kickoff episode. So this
is a cool little thing to do. But I am
joined by a man that I'm very thankful for this year,
and he's brought me a movie that he is very
thankful for that exists so much so that if you're
watching this, he's wearing he's wearing the T shirt of
(00:51):
the movie we're talking about right now, you could you
could check it out on Patreon see the video version.
I'm joined by Brandon O'Neil, vocalist and the guitarist from
the band Wine and War Paint.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Let's go Baby, Thank you, Josh. I'm very excited to
be here, very excited to be talking about pop star.
Might even break out a donkey roll or two. Uh
lots of Lord to get into and very very pumped.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, where to start?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Ever since I was born, I loved music as soon
as I could. I started a band right away.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We knew he was something special.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I said, Man, this guy right here, he's gonna make
it big.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Call it for real.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
He's actually saving the record industry. Everybody's just waiting to
seem like what he does next.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Cons you tell me you didn't see him and say, yo,
he's the stars.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Kind of all expressive.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Connor currently is thirty two people on his personal payroll.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Sure, Connor surrounds himself with people who are agreeable.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Or like Cartney and Kanye and yeah, I was.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
All my woodwork.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
It's kind of my passion as it as a mask.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Still means.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I'd love to get Connor to the point where he's
just kind of everywhere, like oxygen or gravity or clinical depression.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
He's just everywhere.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I make sure all the instruments are tiptop.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
No one really plays guitar, but we got him here
in case he wants on.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Debra's a genius. It's pronounced to bora. What's the origin
of that? I believe, Deborah.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It's not a competition, man. You give me because I'm
so in a way.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Being gracious is my weakness. People say so PRETENTI you know,
it takes a village to make me lookd oup.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I haven't seen this movie since it's initial theatrical run,
and I don't remember why. I didn't feel like I liked,
didn't necessarily like it originally, and I was like I was.
I came back after the rewatch on this for this
episode and I was like, man, so dumb, Like what
(03:38):
is wrong with me? Like this movie is great?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I couldn't agree more. I did not see it in theaters.
This Actually I don't know how what direction we're going
to go with this, but I know a lot about
this movie is this is one of my top five
favorite movies. It's a lot of it is skewed because
I love obviously like being musician, playing in bands. I
love music movies, and so School of Rock was like
(04:04):
number one, still is top five and then so this
was always going to be skewed heavy for me. But
the part of what was going on when they released it,
and this is part of the issue with because it
was a big box office flop, there were like three
Justin Bieber jokes in the whole movie, and they put
all three of them in the trailer and named the
(04:26):
movie kind of in a Justin Bieber esque roast, And
that's part of what the theory is as to why
people weren't super interested in it because they thought it
was just going to be a weird Justin Bieber knockoff,
when really it was taking aim at the entire music industry.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
But yeah, this is kind of this movie is like
a lot smarter than I remember, and I think originally
like I wanted something that was like to the level
of stupidity that irrelevance that hot Rod had, and this
one felt like a really like almost kind of like
(05:03):
felt like a next generation's version of Walk Hard, where
it kind of like took the biopic genre and like
just kind of made it as like ridiculous as possible
and satirized kind of the entire music industry, but also
at the same time this entire level of just like
(05:27):
a biopic, because I mean this was like around the
time that there was just such a heavy like flow
of biopics that we were getting like once, you know,
at least one or two a year.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Absolutely, that's another thing.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
I Mean.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
A bunch of reviews compared it favorably as like a
modern spinal Tap too, which like I don't know that
it got that got to that point, but there's a
lot to be said about like it took aim at
things relevant in the modern space because like everything has
changed some I think everything has changed so much, especially
in the past fifteen years. The movie came out in
(06:05):
twenty sixteen, so almost ten years later, but like right
at that point, like there was so much more and
different things to say than a traditional like mockumentary music movie.
And so to me, that's why it exists in this
interesting space as well, Like even even compared to some
of those other ones, even if people wouldn't match it
up merit wise, there you can at least match it
(06:26):
up in terms of what it says and what it
has to say. Even if you hate it, which I don't,
I love it, but yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, I think this is a movie that like warrants
a few watches than because it's not just something that
you I feel like you can swallow just watching once.
Like it's something that needs to kind of allow to
time to like watch over you and like really decompress.
Like I watched it this morning and like I've been
thinking about it all day and I'm just like, man,
I'm like, I, you know, Lonely Island I think just
(06:58):
kind of doesn't get the credit that they deserve past
Saturday Night Live, because I mean, they've created like legitimately
great music on top of like some just truly phenomenal
comedies in the last you know, ten fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's pretty wild. We are big Lonely Island fans in
our house. In the most recent Lonely Island song that
is new as of this current season of SNL being
Sushi Gloriole would highly recommend if we haven't seen that yet,
my wife Scotty's dressing up as hot Rod this year,
(07:39):
so we are there's a certain there's a certain we
have a certain pensiant for their style, There's no doubt
about that. But part of one of one of the
things I'll call out about Lonely Island in particular, not
all of their stuff hits for me, and not every
joke lands in this movie for me either, But I
(08:00):
almost prefer that in my media and in my content,
in my art. It's great when everything lands, but also
knowing that everything can't land for everyone means that I
appreciate when people take swings that make sense to them
as artists, and so I feel like that happens a
lot in this movie. It certainly happens with a lot
(08:20):
of their other work. I'm not even a huge hot
Rod fan. I want to be. I watch it and
I'm like, man, I wish I was digging this, but
it some of it. It's a little too dry for me.
I need some of the polish that pop Star has.
But they even some of their other work. Yeah, not
a huge hor Rod fan. And then what was the
(08:42):
thing they did for Netflix about the baseball players?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh? I literally just saw that was the Unauthorized.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
The Unauthorized Bash Brothers experience. I watched half of that
and was like, I don't know what this is, guys.
But that's also kind of part of what I appreciate
about it. And I think that ethos that made its
way into pop Star, which is they're very art forward.
They're very much we can't make everything for everyone, so
we're gonna make stuff that fits what we do and
what we think works, and then if it hits, it hits.
(09:12):
It's just a very pure style of art making that
I try to emulate that and and that connects with me.
Even when I don't connect with the work itself. Again,
everything almost everything that happens in Pop Star I connect with.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But yeah, I agree with that. I think that that's
one of the things that I've always really admired about
Andy Sandberg as a creator and as a talent is
that he is just kind of unapologetic, like he's gonna
do what he wants to do. And I think, you know,
things like the Bash Brothers or Seven Days in Hell,
(09:46):
which was kind of like a short mockumentary about him
doing tennis with crazy John McEnroe hair and you know, mullets,
and but you know this movie, and then hot Rod
and then you know, even even like Palm Springs, I
think is another great example is that he and Brooklyn
(10:09):
ninety nine. And there's so much about his filmography past
or post Saturday Night Live that you can you can
talk about that I think in one way or another,
like he just wants to make art. That is like
making art for art's sake, you know, And and what
makes his filmography is so special is I think, you know,
(10:32):
one of the things that's really worth noting is that
there's such a long gap between the release of hot
Rod and pop star that when you look at when
you look at hot Rod, I think you might be
the only person I've met that did not like it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
There's a lot of us out there because not a
lot of people saw that movie.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Not a lot of people saw it, but it kind
of was one of those things that, like it gained
a life past this one, like you know, a couple
of the other movies that we talked at we're talking
about in this series, and I think that just kind
of speaks to the longevity of the art that they do.
Like you know, there's a while a lot of the
(11:15):
music and a lot of the stuff that takes place
within this movie is definitely a period piece around the
time that was released. There's also this like timeless era
around its themes, and I would even argue it's narrative.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
If you were someone you know is listening to this
podcast right now and you're struggling with suicide, addiction, self harm,
or depression, we encourage you guys to please reach out.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
This is the.
Speaker 6 (11:42):
Heartbeat or why we do what we do.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Suicide is currently the tenth leading cause of death in
the United States, and as of this recording, there are
one hundred and thirty two suicides that take place each
and every day on American soil, and when you scale
back internationally, there are eight hundred thousand successful suicides. That
is one death roughly every forty seconds. So if you
(12:06):
were someone you know was struggling, you guys can go
to Victims and Films and dot net ford slash hope.
That resource is gonna be right in the description wherever
you guys.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Are currently listening or streaming this.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
There you'll find resources that include the National Suicide Lifeline,
which is one eight hundred two seven three eighty two
fifty five.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
You can also text help to seven four one seven
four one.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
US have a plethora of other resources, including churches, getting
connected with counselors, LGBT resources like the Trevor Project, and
also a veteran the hotline as well. Please, if you
hear nothing else in the show, understand that you, yes,
you listening to.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
This right now, have value and worth.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
We get it. Suicide, depression and mental health.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
These are hard topics and this stigma around them doesn't
make it any easier. But please consider the resources right
in the descriptions below wherever you guys are listening, because
once again you have value, any of worth, so please
stay with us.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I completely agree with that. Yeah, I think this is
just gonna be us agreeing a bunch, which is fine.
But I like your comment on narrative. That's part of
what I connect with, and also what I connected with
with hot Rod if there was, because I finished watching
hot Rod recently was like, I want to watch this
again just to kind of because I think it can seek.
(13:37):
I think it can sink in. I see how it
could sink in. But I remember reading about the Zach
Galfnakis doing the Between Two Ferns movie and how one
of the movies they consulted was pop Star, Like they
watched that as as inspiration, because you can't make a
sketch movie that is just a two hour sketch and
(13:57):
at least one that has longevity. I suppose you could,
and people do. But the ones that have staying power,
I think are the ones that go with some sort
of like firm narrative. And that's part of what I
appreciate about pop Stars. Kind of a movie about friendship,
Like if you were to like kind of write the
theme about it, it's about like rolling with the people
(14:17):
who were with you at the beginning and to summarize
like a movie with like the same movie has been
that has been laden in it as the song is
like that, that would be how you would summarize. The
movie is kind of asinine, and that's part of what
I love about it. But the narrative's inexplicably driven for
me in terms of my ability to connect with it
(14:39):
because I don't know. I actually suppose I don't know
why that is. It's just said because, but I'm not
sure why that is. Do you have a thought on that,
Like why is it that? I feel like I need
that narrative in order to appreciate this movie. This movie
is a two hour sketch. Somehow I need it to
be about friendship in order for it to act for
me to actually care.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I think it just shows that you know a that
The Lonely Islander are good at writing characters that connect
with people. You know, character journeys, like when you look
at hot Rod, like hot Rod's literal entire journey is
Rod just trying to earn respect from his steps, Like
that's the entirety of it. And when you when you
boil down this this is the story of a boy
(15:25):
band singer got a little bit too big, you know,
kind of thought that he was hot shit and then
eventually was kind of humbled pun intended, and you know,
he eventually kind of like rediscovers what you know kind
of and it kind of has that this like era
of to classify simply like it's a it's a story
(15:48):
about friendship, like you're saying, but also at the same time,
it's this tale of a group of gentlemen that are essentially,
you know, trying to like reconnect and trying to find themselves.
And I think, you know, I think about my own
personal journey, and I think about the people that I
(16:10):
call like some of my best friends, like I have
had to go through some like really tough stuff with
them and had you know, my best friend lives in
in Bama. He was just featured on a biscazing a
couple of weeks ago, and for me and him, our
relationship we connected over music and then we went like
(16:33):
six years without talking and now we talk every day.
And it's kind of one of these things where it's
like I feel like the community that is gonna be
vital for your mental health and allow the longevity really
has to be the people that are you know, gonna
(16:54):
be there to champion that journey with you, but also
the same time that sometimes aren't afraid to kind of
call you out on your shit and then will be
willing to accept you for who you are kind of
wants you. Guys have kind of found that common ground
again if you do end up losing your way.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, absolutely, There's the thing that comes to mind is
part of to like land the plane with that with
pop Star is uh, this sounds all very silly because
the movie is a very silly movie. It's he names
his he calls his turtle his best friend, who's named Maximus.
When the turtle dies, the second turtle he gets is
(17:37):
called Maximus two, and it's just it is a very
it's a dumb, silly movie. And there's one scene in
it where he is apologizing to Akiva Shaffer's character and uh,
he's saying, I'm sorry, but he like gradually each it's
(17:58):
this whole bit where he was like, I was there,
I wrote it, and you're just jealous, and then it
comes to all the way to he wasn't even in
the room when he wrote the catchphrase verse And it's
a beautiful piece of acting by Andy sambergan this movie
like that this is a scene that I would call
out and like that I would people should check out
(18:19):
because it's it was this little glimpse of like, oh
my gosh, this is like the Brooklyn nine nine, like Chops,
And then you watch Palm Springs especially, and you're like,
oh my gosh, dude can act and it's he go
he swallows and he like kind of looks up and
you see this look on this guy's face. This has
been a caricature the whole movie, and he goes he
literally just says I'm sorry, and like he actually delivers it,
(18:41):
and they knew. It's like they know that this is
like the thing that we need. We need this to
be true in this moment. We need to earn this moment,
and it's only going to be done from like true drama,
which is so weird because like you wouldn't like the
rest of the movie doesn't really play around with that.
But they're like, no, this is like the thrust of
the whole movie. This exchange right here, but with this
(19:02):
reconciliation of the two friends, and it's punctuated. But I
think the most serious part in the whole movie is
literally him saying two words where he says, I'm sorry
out of this world. That that is included in a
movie like this, it's absolutely crazy that we get that
amidst these are the things in my jeep like, which
(19:25):
is just really incredible. That combined with like that theme
being a huge theme the other themes of like kind
of what we were talking about earlier, with the true
nature of authentic art making that they're playing around in
this pop space with all these big name cameos and
(19:46):
the movie is of you know, a very pop art
structure of movie with a lot of like big budget
funding and everything, but with all these little subversion subversions
that they make about art making in itself where they're
saying they're they're embodying this punk ethos of like, well,
(20:07):
you really should be writing your own stuff and you
should be you know, working with your friends, and like
you should be like not caring about how things are
gonna sell. They're obviously like dealing with the duality of
all that just because they're making a big budget movie
that was you know, released by Universal Pictures. But you
have that when uh ah, I need to get all
(20:30):
the characters' names because I keep forgetting I'm gonna I'm
gonna pause for a second. Okay, so Owen and Lawrence
so Owen's talking about his gear before they are when
they're doing this big arena tour and he's like, got
these all these old cool syns and they're like, cool,
do you use this for any of this, any of
(20:51):
the old any of the Connor stuff. He's like, oh,
Connor set no, No, I got iPod sixty gigs and he
like pushes go on it, and it's like that's the
whole thing, and it's the subversion where they're just like, no,
you need to care about what you're doing. You need
to care about the art you're making. And then that's
juxtaposed with them at the end when they're all like
making the art together, like and then I guess it's
(21:12):
also I'm finding this train of thought as I'm saying it.
They land the plane with that too, because Connor's like,
the lesson here is to just make art with my
friends and like don't worry about it. And then his
friends are like, dude, no, Like we can go do
the pop like you can go do the poppies, like
you can do both, like you can release a universal
pictures release movie and also care about like making cool
art that isn't necessarily universally applicable, which is dope, which.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I think is really interesting to note. Like the and
kind of speak on like almost like toxic friendships in
that way to where you think that like you have
to sacrifice something that you're really passionate about, really good
at in Connor's case, to or you know, keep this
and we they kind of have this like back and
(21:58):
forth kind of moment because like at the Poppies too,
he is like, oh, you know, the State chant comes out.
She's like, oh, we're running over. You got three minutes
instead of six minutes. And now he's got to decide
like do I do my solo stuff, do I do
the the style boys? You know, which direction do I
end up going in? And but it calls back to
(22:20):
that scene with Lawrence where you know they've been beafing
this entire movie up to this point and he basically
looks at Connor. He's like, you don't have to sacrifice
what you love for us. You know, it's not your
career or us. And that is the evidence I think
(22:41):
of just like good support system and people that are
going to be authentically like champing you on, because at
the end of the day comes back to this conversation
of we create art because it's a form of therapy,
because it's a form of mental health. You know, it's
a it's a good exercise in that and essentially you're
(23:03):
asking someone to sacrifice something that there is benefits their
mental health for something that might not benefit in the end, right.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah. And the fact that they are able to make
that clear in the theming is like really really cool
for such a again, such a silly movie.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, I mean I think it's I also like want
to just throw this out there. Not a lot of
people know this, but Andy Samberg actually did like outside
of Palm Springs, like a full fledged like drama earlier
this year where really he did. He started opposite with
Kate Winslet. The movie is called Lee, and he is
(23:41):
phenomenal in it. So I just want to put that
on people's radars that if you are a fan of
Andy Samberg, want to see him go like full fledged
drama movies called Lee.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
L It's great, Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I'm kind of curious, like where you'd like to go
with this since you're the this is like one of
your favorite favorite I have a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So I was sitting here, I've been thinking about that.
So there's a couple of reasons, a couple of reasons that.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I love this movie so much. One thing that we've
kind of been dancing around that I'll just briefly touch
on again is the form of this movie.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
So it it is the type of art that I
love the most, which is accessibility with rough edges, with
a punk ethos and a like a art first mentality,
but still accessible. I have a ton of respect for
(24:38):
art that is made kind of full fledged in that
zone where it's they're going for straight non esthetic or
straight subversion, and and I think that stuff is really
cool and really valuable and very brave. I just don't
care about it. And so when I can get when
the way that you can get me to pay attention
is to have a little bit of that accessibility. But
(24:59):
then if you can like kind of subtly carve in
or like insert in some of these other elements that
show me that you know what you're doing or show
me that you have more to say besides just you know,
commercializing your art, then that's like, my sweet spot you
just at a personal level. And so that's what I
love about this movie. Similar to what we were talking about,
Like they were like, no, we're gonna do typical three
(25:21):
act structure. We're gonna have like some you know, overarching themes.
It's not gonna be one to two hour long sketch.
But then we're gonna insert these little things in between
it where we're gonna do a song called Los Bendidos
for no reason and it just sounds ridiculous, And we're
gonna have Seal get attacked by wolves, and like we're
gonna have like Ashley Wednesday uppearing in, like doing a
(25:46):
reprise of the Mona Lisa song from earlier, like doesn't
make it like it's weird, and I don't like it,
And that's part of why I like it. So that's
one thing is the form nature of it. The other
thing about it is the reason I love this movie
is because of one line in it, And this is
totally where it unlocked to me everything else that I
(26:06):
love about the movie was this one line when Connor
is signing up for the corporate sponsorship where they were
going to release his new album Conquest in all of
the appliances around the world. They would just show up
(26:26):
in the appliances, which is literally what you two did
when they released their new album, just appeared on everyone's iPhone.
Nobody bought it, it was just there, so a clear call
to that, and Owen says, I don't know, man, this
feels weird, Like don't you think like people aren't gonna
like that, like you know, you just appear in their
(26:47):
homes and like that, they didn't ask you to be there.
And Connor's response was, Owen, you don't understand. There's no
such thing as selling out anymore. If you don't sell out,
people will wonder if no one asked you to. And
that is why I like this movie. This is something
I've been thinking about for a really long time. When
I was coming up, probably you can really with this.
(27:07):
When we were coming up, there was like a thrust
in like you know, between two thousand and five and
twenty ten, where it was a big deal whether or
not people were actually writing their songs, whether or not
they were actually performing live, whether or not they were singing,
whether or not they were using auto tune. There was
(27:28):
that whole authenticity boom and movement that was happening in
that people were really focused and stoked on and then
somewhere along the way it's just gone. And I think
I know the reason, at least I have a theory
of which the reason is is because virality wasn't really
a thing during that time, Like there was like discovery
(27:49):
happening online, but there wasn't necessarily a ton of viral
moments until YouTube really led the charge with that. But
even like with pre TikTok, pre Instagram, like there wasn't
a ton of virality, and so people were springing up grassroots,
but they were the first ones to be doing it,
and so there wasn't this thought and this energy surrounding
(28:12):
anyone can spring up and be huge overnight and all
you have to do is play the game right, and
then you can also do it. Because that started to happen,
people stopped calling it out because they want it for themselves.
Like we're not comfortable saying, hey, you're betraying your art
by trying to be viral, because we want to be viral,
(28:33):
because all the people who would be calling it out
also want to be viral, and so like we're not
comfortable saying like, hey, I don't know if you should
have signed on to that sponsorship for that tour, because
that is like, you know, that's not a great company,
and it just doesn't communicate the right thing. Plus like
it's not really like a part of your brand. It
(28:53):
just seems like you're just selling out. It seems like
you're just like going for the money. You're not like
elevating other ethos above just making money and being profitable.
But because we so desperately want our own sponsorship on
our own tours, we're not calling that stuff out. And
to me, that was the most significant part of how
I evalidated art was or how I how I like
(29:18):
viewed it, how I I can't think of my word right,
I can't think the word, But how I like decided
what the art was that I connected with was that
authenticity through and through at every level, from the creation
to the execution to the brand itself. That was always
really important to me, and I thought it was important
(29:38):
to all of us. It was important to a lot
of people. And then now it's just like people just
are all cloud chasing. We're all cloud chasing. I'm cloud
chasing as an artist. All my friends are artists, Like
the best ones among us all have a certain degree
of cloud chasing, and we're so willing to set aside
these things that we used to hold in high esteem
that I thought led to better art and led to
(30:00):
better people. And so that being expressed in this movie,
which again big budget, major studio, they're you know, singing
pop like in English, they're rapping like it is. It
is not, you know, high art movie, but it has
that accessibility that's then saying these things that I think matter.
(30:22):
And so that's my soapbox on it. That's why I
love this movie. And that's like what I think is
going to be best for people and for art moving
forward is we can find some way to like retain
that authenticity and also really what we need to be
doing is to figure out how to market ourselves in
ways that don't like betray our character.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, I think I think about you. On that note,
I also think about Hunter's journey throughout the course of
this movie Where's going to Eat? He basically ends up
being this like you know, really endy di I y
apper that kind of blew right, and then from there
(31:05):
like he is now in this this space where by
his last scene he is essentially plugging these this appliance company,
Aquas Spin, I think is what they're called. Okay, I
just wanted to make sure I got that right.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
That's right, because he's given the speech of the poppy he's.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Talking about and like right even right right now.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Like.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Well, you know, I think social media has changed the
way that we look at music and we we look
at art period, you know. Now, you know, when we
were coming up around that two thousand and like five
to like two thousand and eight era of vine was
something that you know from our generation that I sounds
(31:55):
so old, but you know, it was kind of like
the pre TikTok. You know, you made these like short
little skits and they were funny and fringe.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
You know, they didn't have mainstream crossover like they do now.
Like now it's a whole business plan. People create whole
business plans on making their their TikTok mainstream.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, And that's part of the thing with you know,
with TikTok is like having friends that have made over
this last year of victims hosting shows and you know,
being more involved in the music scene is you know,
basically the thing that like I find commonality wise is
like you have to keep creating content to stay relevant
(32:37):
and that just that sounds exhausting, like, but it is
like that name of the game, because like what you're
saying is like if you don't, then you just kind
of a disappear. But also you're losing your chance for
that virality because it's fleeting and I think it is
(33:00):
and like that's that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
In any moment, and if you're not playing the game,
then you can't win.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I'm also curious, like, you know what happens once you
hit that virality, Like do do we still have you know,
fifteen minutes of fame? Is that still applicable here or
is that kind of you know, I mean it sounds
dumb to think about, but when you think about this conversation,
I think about Hailey, Hailey Wells. I think it's her name,
(33:25):
the Hawk to a girl, Oh yeah, you know, and
like now.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
She's just created the whole media empire.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, and it's like, do we not believe in like
fifteen minutes of fame? Like I mean, I I appreciate
her journey because you know, she basically took like an
offhanded sex joke and created it and made it into
something meaningful, you know, and deep and you know intentional,
but not everyone's gonna be like that. How would you
guys like to help us get mental health resources into schools, conventions,
(33:55):
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Speaker 6 (34:02):
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Speaker 2 (34:52):
Right. Yes, I think that the fifteen minutes thing is
like it is so much less important than your day
to day like even as an artist, it's just like
I would I'm almost seeing these viral moments as just
like it's it's not even I was thinking of an
(35:14):
analogy being fuel on the fire, but it's really more
it's like putting like lighter fluid on a fire, because
it just burns hot and then it's gone. And so
if you didn't have a good fire to start with,
then this is a great analogy. Actually more infliction it
out if you didn't have a good fire to start with,
it just burns up and then goes away and then
nothing happens and you're back to square one. Or if
(35:36):
like you know, you you had a bunch of like
gross things kind of piled around the fire, like you know,
plastics and nasty like you know, rotted stuff, and that
all catches and then you're releasing this like nasty, rotted,
terrible fumes and you're just polluting the environment that you
use this viral moment to just like make what you
had at the base level just that badness go out
(35:58):
into the into the eye atmosphere. That's one side of it.
But also if you're like build and steady and you're
tending to it, someone throws a big flash on it
and it's like Wow, Wow, that was crazy. That was awesome,
and then it dies down like it always does. But
then that helped to catch some of your good tender
that you had like set around the side. That's the
stuff I'm interested in, Like, that's the stuff that matters.
(36:20):
So it's like it's not to say that, like we won't,
we don't want that flash like that flash helps. But
but in my opinion, the flash only helps so much
as it like helps you to like build up what
you were already doing, because it is so insignificant in
the course of your life. Because I mean, what is
what is our work if not just like a combination
(36:41):
of our days and what is like being an artist
or being a being a content creator other than just
being a human being? Just the stuff that we decide
to do while we have this little fleeting moment. So
like we have to keep that stuff at the forefront
where it's It can't be about the thing. It has
to be about what the thing enables us at a
core level, like when we're sitting like in the in
(37:03):
between moments waiting for something like that to happen. What
is more, what is the most important thing? The most
important thing has to be what we're doing in those
in between moments, because that flame could be good, it
could be bad, it could be nothing. It literally could
just be a flash and then nothing happens, So like
who gives it crap? Like it's so much more important
to be like tending those in between moments so that
(37:24):
if something happens, it can be significant in a good way.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
I think one of the things that I've been you know,
we we obviously create content from you know, two different
spectrums where your music come mostly you know, podcasting and
events and stuff like that. But you know, the kind
of the same basis and same application are are applicable there.
And one of the things that I've been trying to
(37:50):
be more intentional about is been my time and the
relationships because I think those a lot of those things
go in hands, and you know, it's some of you know,
some of the podcasting, some of we've been doing this
now for eight years, and so some of the some
of the guests that I've had, you know, have been
(38:12):
on and off. You know, they've they've been in my
life as quickly as they they were in good conversation,
but you know, we just never kind of did anything
past it. And I you know, I look at even
our relationship like I don't I don't know necessarily that
when I booked you guys for our Saint Patty's Day
show earlier this year, that you know, two weeks from
(38:36):
from when we're recording this, that we would be gearing
up for a five day tour like that was that
was never something and you know, just kind of getting
you know, just something, you know, getting to know you
and uh, you know the rest of the band has
been a real treat and it's been something that I've
(38:56):
enjoyed doing. But it's those moments of intentionality and listening
and responding and being present for people and supportive that
whether it's it's you and I or it's something and
an entire other relationship or you know, tire other circumstances
like you know, being intentional about that. And sometimes I
(39:22):
think we get so wrapped up in that social media
effect where it's like I have to capture this right
now because Piston or it didn't happen right or you know,
content creation because I need to think and I need
I need to have this song go viral or this
(39:42):
chorus or you know whatever. But it's like, hey, make
art for art's sake, and then be intentional about you know,
the people that are celebrating your art and that are
coming alongside of you. And I think art gives us
a platform to also speak and just have a beautiful
(40:02):
time to also like build a healthy community as well.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
Yeah, and that is a.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Firmly reflected in the themes of pop Start Never Stopped,
Never Stopped.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
So that's all to say, you know, that stuff is
very top of mind for this movie. So it's the.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Uh, the line such as uh seal Team sixty nine
sex acute in the Hits, which is my.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Favorite line ever written by anyone in any song. It
all is intertwined.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
This conversation is about friendship and virality.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And and uh you know, art for art's sake, all encapsulated.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
You know, it's all right there.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Well, I'm curious if if you come equip with so
for this series, I have been the one pulling out
film trivia. I am curious if you're a big enough
fan to know any hidden facts about the spot I.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Gave away probably some of my my best ones already.
Man if I hadn't known, yeah, oh man, how about this?
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (41:36):
So I actually don't know if this is interesting or not.
The chef in this movie Connor's chef. Yeah, Tys Tyris
Tyris Quash.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
Yes, I suppose. I don't know how to phrase this
is a question. Just we do?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
We all know that's just played by Justin Timberley, uncredited
as a lot of the cameos where it was uncredited,
he had many lines in the movie, played significant role
in the movie, uncredited role. He just shows up as
Tyres Squash. Here's a there's another piece of trivia. Every
single one of the Lonely Islands wives appear in the movie.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
I so I have the IMDb pulled up here the
trivia facts, and it does say that the Poppies producer
is a Kiva Scaper's real life wife.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yes, and uh, the doctor for Bill Hayter's roady flatline
Sash f Line Sash was also I think I'm on
Wikipedia right now, that's Akiva Shaeffer's wife. Oh no, no, you're right,
you're right. You had that before. I think it was
yourma's wife. Nope, it was Andy's wife. Joined a newsom
(42:58):
We're gonna land on it. It was one of the
three one of my favorite parts in the whole movie
when he is talking about how he has all these
guitars around. They don't use guitars, but just in case
he wants him, he's got him. He's knocking him over.
And he says he loves doing flatlining, like in the
movie flat Liners, likes to get in an f line.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Sessh so silly, Bill, I so typically would I podcast.
I've got like a notebook that like I'll take notes on.
I gave up in the first twenty minutes of this
movie because every time I'd be like, I'd like write
down a line, then like another line would like come up,
and I'm just like, there's so many there's so many
good moments in this movie that whether you're talking about
(43:43):
like Bill Hater's like two scenes in this movie, or
you know you're talking about uh, Tim Meadows also in
this movie so good. I love Tim Meadows. Like I
had the biggest smile on my face when they were
at the Poppies and he comes in and uh on
the saxophone and that like grand finale, Like my heart
(44:07):
just skipped a beat watching him, just in all of
his joy. And I love the fact that everything, every
decision Tim Meadows has made in the last you know,
twenty years post Saturday Night Live have just been some
of the best like performances of his entire career.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Tony Tony, Tony Tony, And he wanted to add a
question mark, he did not.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
It is so good.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
No, my always my big one is just like how
much did it cost and how.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
Much did it make? That's the one I usually give people.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I'm kind of curious about that because, like I remember
this being in theaters, but I also remember it being
out of theaters really quickly. Yeah, And I think it's
that's kind of the I just don't know if like
there's like not a not an audience for like Lonely Islands,
because I don't think they tore right.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I don't think it's not as the Lonely Island now.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
So, like, I'm just kind of curious because like some
of the best things that Andy Samberg has done in
his career have just kind of been these like flops.
Because Hot Rot I think was also.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Also a big flop. Yeah, cost some twenty twenty million
to make. They made ten million, so that's a firm loss.
Firm loss. I mean, twenty million is not even that
much by all these like standards.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
It's not, but you also have to take into accounts
that's just what it costs to make the movie, to
be marketing and all that. Yeah, typically marketing is another,
you know, half of that. So if not doubling, so
most most analyzers will set tell you to take that
budget and double it. And so now you're looking at
(45:58):
anywhere between a twenty to thirty million dollar loss.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
For Universal, Yes, which is insane.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
It might also be the reason that like, this movie
is like incredibly hard to find.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Uh not if you want a digital copy of it,
Like I do you watch it all the time?
Speaker 5 (46:15):
Yeah, very easy to find. It was on Max right now.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I found it at my library, Like I couldn't find
it on the Uh is it a Max?
Speaker 5 (46:23):
I think it was at least maybe it just rolled off,
but it.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Was Yeah, I like, I like when to go find it?
I was like, couldn't find it anywhere, and then I
was like, oh, just check my local library. Sure enough
they had it.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
So yeah, I'll give you one cameo trivia.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
This is just from like straight memory of the movie
which person said that Connor for real is the reason
he dances.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Usher is Usher, which is so crazy to me because yeah,
which probably like also is gives one of the best
like through like unintentional cameos. Uh uh that were At
the end, He's like, I danced with this, I did,
(47:07):
I did the donkey. My life is made. But I'll
go ahead and I'll roll out some trivia here for you.
So most of the shots of the large crowd were
actually footage of one direction concerts.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
Oh wow, did not know that?
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Uh So In this movie also, probably one of the
best cameos of all time is when Connor's trying to
kind of you know, redirect his his whole dickless uh
miss misshad So he agrees to like propose to to
Ashley ash Wednesday and seals there. So that that scene
(47:58):
where he talks about like the scar on his face, Yeah,
so it's actually from a autoimmune disease called lupus. But
the scientific name for wolves is cannics. Loopis so he.
Speaker 5 (48:14):
Was lying, no, it was wolves.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah. Uh so the the real life Rappers cameos that
you see in here, uh nas has to have one
of the best cameos when they kind of go off
and have that side quest about like Lawrence's career after
the Style Boys and UNA's was just like, yeah, like,
(48:42):
I just didn't connect with that. I have different things
in my jeep.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Really, you're said, so good. I didn't really connect with
that song. See different things in my team, so good.
That's why that's it's not universal, you know, it's gotta
have some sort of universality. It's a good lesson, another
good lesson from pop star.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Which is what makes it Lonely Island. Yes, yes, but yeah,
so the the real life rappers are from, like you know,
fifty cents to Naas talk about their loves of the
Style Boys was never never scripted. The responses were based
on the questions asked by the Lonely Island as if
they were the real life rap group Beastie Boys.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
They just.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Respond yeah, so good, good, that's the way.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
That's the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Oh, there's a lot of more trivia apparently. Uh dun
dun dun dun dumn.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
One of my favorite songs from the entire movie is
a bonus track that is not in the movie, and
I highly recommend listening to it. It's called fuck Off,
and it's told from the perspective of little kids telling
the adults in their lives to fuck off. And the
(50:17):
hook of it is, uh, I'm gonna live forever, which
is just brilliant writing in general. But I also they
use that joke often in Brooklyn nine nine, that same
joke of I'm invincible and he literally says I'm going
(50:37):
to live forever, which is just excellent irony.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
I mean, though, when you create art, isn't it actually uh?
I mean, can't you actually say that like your art?
Technically with your art, you're going to live forever to
some degree. So, yeah, this was Andy Samberg and Judd
Apatow's first collaboration. I didn't even know he was involved
(51:06):
in this movie.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Yeah, he was big credit and he was his second
name in the trailer after Lonely Island.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Also, I get it a little bit from my mom,
but I do enjoy some trash TV. Yeah, And so
I think it's also worth mentioning that when you're talking
about this time period, not quite in like the late
twenty tens, the mid twenty tens by this time, but
(51:36):
the early twenty tens was like when TMZ really kind
of got the ball rolling on, kind of like that
like celebrity gossip. And I loved that the film had
their own version of that called CMZ CMZ that was
(51:58):
headed by Will Arnett. Yes, okay, I thought so, and.
Speaker 5 (52:06):
Chelsea Peretti another Brooklyn nine nine cast, remember.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yes, and uh, Eric Andre is in that and then
the blonde guy like so when you brought up like
justin Timberlake, I being uncredited for this movie. I'm also
kind of curious if there are other members that are
also unm credited as well, because that blonde guy that
(52:32):
is sits in the back behind Eric Andre looks a
little bit like, shoot, what's his name? Why can I
not think of it? Arn kill him?
Speaker 5 (52:49):
Oh kill so?
Speaker 1 (52:51):
But Tarren Killm is in this movie. H he has
he has a brief cameo in this movie. He's not
he's it's not on his it's not on his like
IMDb credits. But when they're doing the the uh, the
few the Viking funeral for Maximus, if you as he's
like laying it down in there, there is a person
(53:13):
literally to the back, right back left, sorry of Connor,
that is Taran killam amazing.
Speaker 5 (53:26):
I'm gonna keep an eye on for that next time.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
So this movie was announced with its poster and its
movie on an episode of Jimmy Kimmel Live on February
twenty ninth, twenty sixteen, which is kind of weird to
me that it wouldn't be on Fallon given the fact
that Fallen is in this movie, right, Does that feel
like a confidentiality agreement, like conflict of interest kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Like, you know, I would think that, but you know,
they give Kimmel the announcement, they give foulon the on
screen time. You know, it all all comes out in
the wash. Plus they've got the NBC Universal connection, so
maybe there's something to play with there. But I believe
that Connor fur Reel made an appearance. Did he do
an interviewing character? I know he was on the voice.
(54:21):
I know he appeared on the voice. Connorfer Reel, Kim
on the Voice as part of the promotion. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
I brought this up originally at the beginning of the podcast,
but apparently Judd Apatow also produced Walkhart the Dewey cos
I feel like I feel that influence on this.
Speaker 5 (54:41):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Bomb, but a bomb that's all that is. And that's
all the trivia that I got. That's great, but a
lot of it was was repeat so.
Speaker 5 (54:58):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I feel like, yeah, I feel like I got nothing.
Oh you got a Style Boys shirt?
Speaker 4 (55:09):
There, we got it, got it all over here.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
I just need you to wear that the entire tour.
Speaker 5 (55:16):
I'm a style boy for life.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Where did you find that?
Speaker 5 (55:24):
Internet? Got it for Christmas?
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Okay, that's fair?
Speaker 5 (55:31):
Oh yeah, man, I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
Man, I don't. I don't really have anything else. I
think this movie. I'm really glad that I gave you
a rewatch and that you were like, yeah, I want
to do this movie because I have a new appreciation
for this movie now.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
I'm so thrilled to continue to pass along the joy
of pop Star never stopped, never stopping. I forced all
my friends to watch it who've never seen it, and
it gets it gets good reviews because it's a good movie.
It's just a good movie. Bottom line. Bottom line is
good movie. I always say, everything's dialed up to like ten.
Like the ridiculousness, the crudeness, the like commentary, the the
(56:12):
even like the the the narrative, themes, everything is kind
of cranked. And it's if any one of those doesn't
appeal to you, you can find it. It's somewhere else
in the movie.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
So that's part of the reason that I I I
think this movie does as well as it does. Like
another great example of that, you know, being is just
like uh, like you know, the the equal Right song
and then like bin Laden like they're they're two tone,
completely tone depth songs and in this movie. But then
(56:44):
like you also like a couple uh lines later like
you also have you know, like there's that song about
Spain in this movie and then that scene like where
he's like uh he basically flashes and stands naked in
front of you know, fifteen thousand people and a concert
(57:07):
that like it becomes this entire like media storm, and
you know, this movie just like hits on like a
lot of like really uncomfortable like things of just like
scenarios and just be like ah. But then like you
realize it's like there's it's that's what makes it so
freaking good.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yes, That's part of my my pitch to people is
just that everything is diled like and it's it's pushing
it at all the boundaries. It's like, which is which
is great? We have Maximus puking at one point, which
is disgusting.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Leave my turtles dying. I need to go to a doctor.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
You have the whole like dark scene where there's the
captions come up with them just like killing a bee
with a machine like a giant bee with a machine gun,
like just dumb stuff, a flamethrower, thank you, dumb stuff.
Speaker 5 (58:04):
So stupid.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, I think that's kind of what what makes it
like part of genius too, is that like there's you
know it, Connor is like one of the biggest like
assholes that you like can find in a movie like this,
But then at the same time, you like look and
you see like he's got this like spectacular redemption arc
(58:28):
at the at the end of it. And I think
that's part of the reason that I really enjoyed this
this coming back to it.
Speaker 5 (58:37):
But we can watch it on tour every night.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Yeah, I think that's a that's a good segue to
uh also plug the tour. You guys can go to
uh wind and Warpain dot com as well as Victims
and Villains dot net uh slash events to get a
full roster and if you guys come to we're also
doing a collab Hot Sauce as well.
Speaker 5 (59:01):
I'm delicious, Josh says, it's delicious.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
I've tried it. I I snuck it to it to
one of the to the dudes from UH from waters Deep,
and I was like, I really want to try this,
and so the guy like gave me a sample of
it and I was like, oh, this is dangerous. So
it's very good. It's very very good. But in the meantime,
I until then, where can people find wine and war paints?
Speaker 2 (59:27):
Come us and come on and hang on Instagram if
you're into that UH. If not, I applaud you. Go
to our website and sign up for our email list.
That's the best way to keep in touch. We're on
all of the social platforms other than that, and most importantly,
we'll come see everybody at the shows. We'll be in UH, Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Boyd's, Maryland, Richmond, Rono, Rapids,
(59:52):
North Carolina, and Ronoke No, No, Raleigh, Raleigh. The ours
ours confused runner Graphs is first and then the rest
of those are all in order. But there was no
reason for me to get that one data out of order.
But yeah, we've got we've got that tour coming up,
We've got a Christmas song coming out, We've got a
(01:00:14):
holiday show in Richmond. We're gonna end the year strong
and new music next year for sure, so.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
And I would encourage people to also go stream the
album's called Disassociate. It is one of my favorite albums
of the year. And I'm not I'm not just saying
that because you know, we're getting ready to go on
tour together. But uh, you know that's one of the
things that like, I'm I'm grateful for. I'll say this year,
(01:00:44):
you know, while we're getting into the season of gratitude,
and we talked about this, well you will hear this
several times, but gratitude and giving thanks that actually has
a thirty five percent chance of actually eliminating oppressive episodes.
And so I've been trying to give thanks more and so,
(01:01:06):
like I still feel when it comes to music that
I'm still somewhat of an outsider in certain certain extents.
But you know, I've I've appreciated you guys coming in
clutch for you know, playing our fundraiser show in October
and then you know, agreeing to let me be like
let me book a tour for you guys. And I've
(01:01:29):
just I've really valued our friendship over the just the
last six months and this year and just kind of
getting to see you guys grow and getting to know
you guys has been a real treat, So thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
Thanks Josh likewise man good.
Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
All right, Well we're gonna be back next week. Brandon
and I will be on the road, but we'll be
back here next week. Wherever you guys get your podcasts from,
hit that subscribe button, because next week we are giving
thanks for Big Fat Liar.
Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Ooh
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