Queer Screams Film Festival (2025, Part Two) | Episode #478 - Victims and Villains

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You Are Lies the short.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
You Are Lord.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Name to me.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Over the Victims End Villains podcast feed money is Josh.
If you are new here too, Victims and Villains, we
create content like what you're watching right now simply to
talk about mental health, throw pop culture, and introduce you
to some cool art along the way. This past weekend
I had the privilege of covering remotely the film festival

(00:50):
Queer Screams out of Portland, Oregon, and all of my
reviews are up on our website at Victims end Villains
dot net for slash reviews. But also I have the
chance to sit down with some of the filmmakers that
make up this year's selections.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
And this is the last.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Batch of interviews that we have that are going to
be audio. We will be releasing a couple that are written,
but this is going to be the last batch that
our audio, and up first is privileged to sit down
with the writer director behind the short film of Cold Feet,
Miss Anna Celio.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, congratulations on Cold Scream Are that fuck? Congratulations on
Cold Feed? It is nothing short of incredible. I am
kind of curious where the idea for this kind of
came from, because this is a really rare breed of horror.

(01:49):
I feel like there are many filmmakers that try and
capture the type of horror that Cold Feed is, but
very few are actually successful at it.

Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah, the Cold Feet is without so many spoiler's kind
of a monster under the bed story about a young
woman who has her girlfriend sleepover and her anxieties about
their relationships start to manifest as like this other presence
in the room. And it was really inspired both by
my struggles as a very introverted person. I find that

(02:23):
I'm pretty shy and a bit of a loner by nature,
and so when I socialize, I kind of have to
turn on a different personality than what I have when
I'm a home alone or with really close friends, and
so there's always a little bit of a worry when
I make new acquaintances, or make new friends, or start
new relationships that that version of that of me is
who they actually like, who they're actually befriending, and that

(02:44):
they may not like the quieter, more introverted version of
me that I am most of the time. And usually
that's not the case. But I wanted to kind of
make a film that explores that idea because I think
a lot of us struggle with like who we are
and how we present to each other other people versus
who we feel like we are when we're alone, and
how do you be both of those people and in
a relationship and kind of the title of the film,

(03:07):
and like one of the core scares of the film
is the idea of sleeping with your feet out from
under the blankets, which is both a vulnerable thing and
something I'm really scared of. I've always been kind of,
like since I was a kid, primarily afraid of having
my feet out from under the covers, as if something
would reach out from under the bed to grab me.
And so I combined both of those things into what

(03:29):
became Cold Feet.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I'm kind of curious when you talked about it being
it very much is a monster movie. It's it's kind
of like this like almost elevated take on the monster genre.
You guys use a lot of shadows on a lot
of lights, like we never actually kind of outright to
see the monster. And I'm wondering if you can talk
about the challenges of getting angles just right as a director,

(03:54):
because I think you did really good job, but I
also have to imagine it was probably a pain in
the ass to get some of those angles as well.

Speaker 6 (04:01):
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was an interesting experience.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
It was my first time directing a short film, and
I thought that I had written something very contained and
very easy to shoot, you know, two people in a bedroom.
And I started talking to some of my producer friends
and they sat me down and they're like, Anna, you
have written something that you have to build a set for.
There is absolutely no way that we are going to

(04:25):
be able to shoot this unless we build a room
where the wall comes off and.

Speaker 6 (04:30):
The bed can move.

Speaker 5 (04:31):
Because that really was the angle challenge of it all,
because where you're working with like a very like structured
set of like a bed and wanting to be able
to be able to shoot underneath it and have things
above it at the same time, you have to be
in total control and be able to put the camera
wherever you need to. And so we ended up having
to build essentially a three wall set where two of

(04:52):
the walls moved and the bed itself was up against
one and had an extension built on it so that
we could drag our actress fully under the bed in
one shot and have her go, you know, the ten
twenty feet that I imagined for this kind of horror
element of it in this under the bed world that
we introduced towards the end of the film. But yeah,

(05:12):
so it was it was a challenge, and unfortunately we
addressed it by building a set and making it significantly
larger scale than I had imagined it originally.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
I'm kind of curious the character design of the monster,
because it's really easy when you have a design where
they're very prominent, they're very much in light, you have
a lot of use of shadows and darkness. You really
use it to your advantage here, and so we kind
of mostly just see like the outline of the monster.

(05:43):
And I'm for you as a director and especially as
a first time director and seeing something that was in
your head as the story getting to shoot, like the
actual like monster and the way that you initially visualized
it for this story. How what was the evolution like it?

(06:05):
Did it appear the same, had it changed, had it evolved?
Had it been reduced because of budget?

Speaker 7 (06:13):
No?

Speaker 5 (06:14):
It was interesting because without getting too much into spoilers,
I know I knew I wanted like less of like
a of a I don't know, like a non human monster.
The monster in this film is very much like a
human because since the film is really about the main character,
Sarah's anxieties and this worry that there's some better version

(06:34):
of herself that would be a better girlfriend, a better friend,
a better member of this relationship, I felt that the
monster had to be frightening enough to like carry the
scares of the film while still feeling like it belonged
in that metaphor, like it's a reflection of her, And
so I knew I didn't want to do anything too
crazy with the makeup, and staid we focused on making

(06:57):
the monster feel other worlds but still grounded in like
this human expression. We really focused on the eyes in particular,
because that was really what we were going to be
seeing the most of and kind of the design of
the film. It's so heavily shadow based, and that was
really just a matter of finding the right contacts. We
played with blue light ones that we could get like

(07:18):
some reflections and that sort of thing, which are like
a subtle addition that I think make her feel just
a little bit more eerie on top of like the
makeup and stuff we're doing.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
So I want to go back to something you had
mentioned A couple questions ago in talking about the introvers
introverted nature of yourself. This is probably one of the
most vulnerable short films I've seen in quite a while,
and something that I feel like a lot of people
can relate to, because I feel like the idea of

(07:51):
dating someone, you know, that's something that a lot of
us have gone through. The idea of that first night together,
staying over, that's a big step. And you know, how
did you kind of walk the line as a writer
of being something creating characters that were going to feel

(08:15):
relatable but also at the same time also autobiographical.

Speaker 6 (08:20):
Yeah, I mean, I'm primarily a screenwriter.

Speaker 5 (08:24):
This is my first short film, and so I really
leaned on the lessons that I learned more as a writer,
I think, then as a director in building these characters.
And for me, I feel like in general, the more
specific you make something and the more it feels like
it's coming from a real place that you have an
experience in, the more universal it ends up feeling.

Speaker 6 (08:46):
It's a strange like cognitive dissonance.

Speaker 5 (08:51):
Like this idea that like, when you pour something real
into it, it will touch other people as real, even
if the experience they have isn't like a direct one.
For one, There's something about like that kernel of reality
that you infuse something and when you put a little
bit of vulnerability into it, that speaks to other people
and lets them kind of put their guard down and

(09:12):
connect to the story. And I think that applies kind
of across any genre you're working in or even any medium.
Go ahead, sorry, no, no, no, but yeah, just this
idea that like, it's uh, that specificity is in your
enemy when it comes to universality and connecting with an audience,
it's kind of the best thing you can do.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
I think one of the things that really uh shocked
me is how this film also feels like a film
out of time, where I feel like, nowadays we want
to see so badly the Boogeyman of the screen on
the screen, you know, we want to see those deaths,
whereas this one relies a lot more on that old

(09:55):
adage of it's scarier what happens off screen or what
your mind can create. And I'm kind of curious if
what are your influences in creating horror that relies more
on that in the vein of something like John Carpenter's
Halloween or even Texas Chancel Master from back in the day, Psycho,

(10:19):
you know, all of these other masters of the genre.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
Yeah, I think I grew up on horror. All of
those influences are part of it. I think. I think
really one of the best lessons I learned about that
actually came from a film school. I was at AFI
as a screenwriter for two years, and as part of that,
we have to like work on a collection of short films.

Speaker 6 (10:43):
They're not ever.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
Supposed to be like put in the festivals or anything.
They're really just like academic exercises. Is a really fraying
in that way that like you are creating something that
you know is never going to be seen outside your peers.

Speaker 6 (10:54):
You can take risks.

Speaker 5 (10:55):
But I have this vivid memory of one of the
films that we all had to work on. We had
to work from this script for this one. There was
a description in it of this painting that a character
had done, and it was such a vivid description of
this evocative piece of art that could not ever have
lived up to the words on the page. As soon

(11:16):
as you saw the image, There's just something about there's
some things that like we can't portray in on the
actual film better than what someone can make up in
their own head, and so I think being able to
recognize what those things are and to hold them back
is that as a sign of strong filmmaking. For this
film in particular, I love scary movies. I see them

(11:40):
all the time. I love to sit with my hands
over my eyes and my ears plugged while watching them.
That's my sign that a movie's good, as if it
can force me to like cower in my seat. But
I am never more scared than when I wake up
in the middle of the night convinced that there was
something standing in the corner of my room. And of
course there isn't anything there, you know, I look and
there's nothing there, but that unsettled feeling sits with me

(12:02):
precisely because it wasn't there, but I had such a
strong feeling that it was. And so for this film,
since it was kind of inspired by some of those
feelings of like those night terrors, I wanted to like
lean on that in this idea that like, the scariest
thing in your room is the thing you don't see,
the thing that you feel like is over your shoulder,
and when you look, it's not there, and yet somehow
looking and not seeing it doesn't alleviate that feeling you're

(12:25):
still sitting in bed kind of like worried that you
just missed it, right, or like that feeling when you're
like in the shower and you're like, I really feel
like something just walked past the shower curtain. I really
feel like something that's gonna grab my shoulder. You know,
Like there's not like those are cruly unsettling feelings that
I don't think really can be can be replicated in

(12:46):
any other way. But that's what I think we strive
for in horror filmmaking, is to catch a glimpse of that.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
One of the best examples that like still haunts me
to this day is there's a moment in Rob Zombie's
Second Halloween where the Daniel Harris character is like getting
ready for a shower and Michael Myers just kind of
like quietly stands there and she thinks she sees something
over like the corner of her eye, and she's just

(13:13):
kind of this like oh shit moment and she bolts
for it. And that has been one of those things
that like I watch horror on a regular and like
you said, like you know, you could watch all of
the films and read all of the books and spend
all of your time in this genre, But for some way,
there is never that like sign of relief that oh,

(13:37):
this is just a movie. No, Like it's like yeah,
And I think I think you capture that perfectly too
when we get back to our two main characters, because
you know, when a relationship is new, that overnight experience
is like, well, what if this person is really a murderer?
Like how well do I really know this person? And

(13:59):
how well do I really How legitimate are these fears
and concerns and anxieties, And I think they pair so
well with those grounded approaches that a lot of us feel,
but also these other worldly anxieties. And I'm kind of curious,

(14:21):
you know what came first for you in the course
of creating this film. Was it the fact of wanting
to make a monster movie that was on the subjects,
or was it those subjects that eventually birthed the monster movie?
In later iterations of this, I think.

Speaker 6 (14:39):
It's a little bit simultaneous.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
I think obviously I self produced, and you know, a
crowd funded ended some self financing for the short film,
And anytime you're like making anything in an indie light.
You have to simultaneously be thinking about producibility and your idea.
It's just like a practical part of this process. But

(15:00):
I don't think it's like a bad thing. I think
it forces you to be creative. I knew I couldn't
make like a huge scale film, you know. I needed
to do something that had like a couple people, and
in theory was in one room. I was wrong about
it being one room, but that's fine. I approached it
from that angle.

Speaker 6 (15:15):
You know.

Speaker 5 (15:17):
Little did I know, but I knew that I wanted
to do something in like one room with two people.
And then I just started thinking about, you know, like
the things I knew I wanted to do horror because
I love horror, and I started thinking about, you know,
like what is scary and simple in one room that
feels real to man, feels like a lot of people
relate to it. I think it was probably the feat
sticking out of the blanket idea that came first, because

(15:41):
that really does frighten me, which is really sad because
you're much cooler in bed when your feet are sticking out,
and yet that's how you get murdered by a monstranger bed.
So it's really a it's a it's a struggle for me.
And from there, I think it evolved into like trying
to find like what that represented from an emotional standpoint.

(16:02):
You know, it's a vulnerability and where else did I
feel vulnerability in my life? And that led me to
this idea of like would I be more comfortable if
someone else was in the bed with me? You know,
would I be less afraid or would I be so
consumed by other fears that I would still be afraid
to leave my feet out? Because it's just like an extension,

(16:22):
a representation of all the other fears of vulnerability you
have when you're in a relationship with a person. I
think that was kind of like the direction that it
took and eventually evolved into like what the monster under
the bed would be in this story, how it could
further that emotional question and represent something like that for
the main character.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
That's awesome, Well, thank you for your time. I just
want to ask one more thing, and where can people
find your on line? At work we find more information
about the film.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
There is a website I think it's called feet shortfilm
dot com. Let me check, yes, it is cold feashortfilm
dot com. Has kind of like some more information about
the film stills that sort of thing. Eventually, when we
have an online release, that'll be linked to there. And
then I'm online on Instagram. Anna dot visselio is my

(17:17):
Anna dot es dot misselio is my user name. I'm
always happy to chat with people. Feltful making there.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
And Yeah, if you were someone you know is listening
to this podcast right now and you're struggling with suicide, addiction,
self harm, or depression, we encourage you guys to please
reach out. This is the heartbeat or why we.

Speaker 6 (17:39):
Do what we do.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Suicide is currently the tenth leading cause of death in
the United States, and as of this recording, there are
one hundred and thirty two suicides that take place each
and every day on American soil, and when you scale
back internationally, there are eight hundred thousand successful suicides. That
is one death roughly every forty seconds. So if you

(18:01):
were someone you know was struggling, you guys can go
to Victims and Villains and dot net forward slash Hope.
That resource is gonna be right in the description wherever
you guys are currently listening or streaming this. There you'll
find resources that include the National Suicide Lifeline, which is
one eight hundred two seven three eighty two fifty five.
You can also text help to seven four one seven

(18:24):
four one. US have a plethora of other resources, including churches,
getting connected with counselors, LGBT resources like the Trevor Project,
and also a veteran the hotline as well. Please, if
you hear nothing else in the show, understand that you, yes,

(18:44):
you listening to this right now, have value and worth.
We get it. Suicide, depression, mental health. These are hard
topics and this stigma around them doesn't make it any easier.
But please consider the resources right in the descriptions below
wherever you guys are listening, because once again, you have

(19:05):
value any worth, so please stay with them.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Stana for her time. Movies incredible, Please go check it
out and up next. I had the privilege of sitting
down with my only co director and co writer as
well as actor pair throughout the course of this film festival.
It needs I as co writer and co director and

(19:32):
at Ponando.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Raquel Leavish. We hope you guys enjoyed this one. How
are you guys doing this fine afternoon?

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Doing great?

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (19:42):
How are you Josh, I'm well, you know, I'm ready
to tell you. Guys are the first filmmakers that I've
had the chance to interview for Queer Screams this year
that are from the feature film World and Raquel. You
are actually the first actress that I've got interview this year.
So Aaron, kind of starting off with you this, I'm

(20:05):
kind of curious where this movie comes from, because I'm
going to take a guess, I think we might be
of the same age. And this movie kind of reminded
me of nights that I stayed a way too long
on Reddit and four Chan and is anyone up and
just going through this rabbit hole? But I'm kind of

(20:26):
curious for you, where did this film come from?

Speaker 4 (20:30):
So yeah, I mean starting off just jumping right into
what you were saying. What I love about something we did.
My co writer Zach and I so or this movie
with Zach Ogele and we also co directed it together,
and so we when we were writing the movie, we
did a very intentional thing where we wanted to blend
the Internet of our youth with the Internet of today

(20:54):
in some ways, and so there's really bits and pieces
and fragments and it's been a really cool experience to
see people that are, you know, my age, resonate with
it and be like, oh, this is so clearly the
Internet of my teenage years, of the you know, mid
two thousands, but then people more Quel's age and younger
even saying that, oh, you know, we totally nailed the

(21:14):
Internet of today, and like the sort of the unseen,
unspoken parts of it that don't get as widely covered.
So that was an intentional hybrid. There's a little bit
of anachronism in there in the way that we treat
the Internet. But yeah, it very much came from Zach
and I having these conversations about the bizarre and unsettling

(21:37):
rabbit holes that we went on when we were teenagers,
that looking at things we shouldn't have been, and how
that stuff kind of still sticks with us today.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Very unfortunate. I've seen some things my day that I deeply,
deeply did not wish that I want to see. But Raquel,
I am kind of curious with you some of the
some of the imagery that is in this film is
not for those that are screamish. Some of it takes
place off screen, some of it's implied, but still I'm
kind of curious for you. Where was your kind of

(22:10):
I guess like stomach for this stuff at prior to filming.
What were the conversations about, like in terms of boundaries,
where you thought you could handle, how far you test yourself.

Speaker 8 (22:22):
Well, I just want to say this, Zach and Aaron
are probably the most respectful people I've ever met in
this industry.

Speaker 9 (22:31):
They have always kept that.

Speaker 8 (22:35):
Conversation open and beyond the more terrifying, the more gruesome
aspects of the film. With with Isidora and I and
with how much emotional turmoil I kind of had to
go through throughout the film as well.

Speaker 9 (22:52):
I've always felt taken care.

Speaker 6 (22:53):
Of in that sense.

Speaker 8 (22:53):
I will say, just in general one pink period, yes,
But I will say before the film, you know, I
grew up with the Internet. I don't think i'd never
know not known kind of social I think I had
Instagram when I was like ten, which my mom deeply
regrets now, you know.

Speaker 9 (23:14):
But so I was exposed to a lot of.

Speaker 8 (23:20):
Freaky shous at a really young age.

Speaker 9 (23:24):
But then I I it kind.

Speaker 8 (23:27):
Of like got suppressed somewhere in the back of my
brain for a really long time. So I would say
like my high school years and then towards the end
of high school I kind of learned how to wean
off of that and to not go down that rabbit hole.
So this was this movie, and jumping into this process
was sort of like a let me go back to

(23:47):
my childhood in that way, or like let me just
I have.

Speaker 9 (23:51):
To trace it back.

Speaker 8 (23:52):
But it was all sort of subconscious because I wasn't
actively thinking about those things because at the time that
I was filming, I would say I was in a
pretty healthy state of being. But I would say watching
the movie, and I'm not gonna spoil anything, but watching it,
I like there's you know, that whole montage where she's
like watching all these videos. I couldn't look I was like,

(24:14):
I couldn't. I was like as a normal sex to me,
and I was like, I was like I had to
look away because I just I, oh, man, like when
I was filming that all those things felt so distant
from me as an actor, Like I was like, logistically speaking,

(24:34):
I know what this is, this is my job, this
is what the character is experiencing.

Speaker 9 (24:39):
But I could just tap out of it.

Speaker 8 (24:40):
That whole movie, I think, as you're watching it, there's
no you can't just like walk off the mat and
say I'm I'm good.

Speaker 9 (24:47):
You're in it the whole time.

Speaker 8 (24:48):
And so as an audience member, I would say that
was a lot more squeamish than it was actually doing
it and experiencing it.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
That's that's fair. So this movie revolves around the almost
kind of the lower Internet lore of an individual named
fish Tooth that I don't kind of want to I
don't really want to give too much away, but Aaron
for you and Zach when you guys were coming up,
you know, it's one thing to write and direct a story.

(25:21):
I feel like it's a completely other thing to kind
of build in and add like a mythology and a
lure that exists within the universe of this. And I'm
kind of curious what inspirations you guys had for creating
the lure of fish Tooth and really just kind of
how the story of that plot element kind of really

(25:44):
came to be.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, in our discussions Zach and mine of these
sort of weird things that we watched online, we sort
of started transitioning the idea of you know, there's the obvious,
there's the violent, there's the you know, Pain Olympics, the headings,
all of this kind of stuff that exists on the Internet,
and then at some point you sort of like, or
at least for me, I started desensitizing to that kind

(26:09):
of stuff, and then I started getting really weirded out
more by videos I couldn't explain right. Some videos are
there to shock you. Other videos in Raquel, her character
Rowan has like some dialogue about this in the movie.
There are other types of videos you see, and they're
almost more intoxicating because you don't understand what they are,

(26:29):
where they're from, or they're sort of uncanny in a way.
And so fish Tooth came from some experiences me watching
some of that. It's a combination of things, but I
would shout out, like one of the primary inspirations was
there was this filmmaker named David Kern sorry Richard Kern

(26:51):
in the cinema transgression movement in the eighties, and he
worked a lot with some actresses that are more well known,
like Lydia lunch Within like the punk movement, and there
was this one actress named lung leg Or who went
by lung leg that she's in a few things that
he made, and he would just I found all these videos, right,

(27:11):
and I found them in two thousand and five or
something on like early YouTube and some other websites, and
there was no descriptions or explanations, and so I kind
of did the fish tooth rabbit hole in a way
with these movies in this actress name called lung Leg
that there was very very little information on. But there
were these weird videos just out of context of her,

(27:33):
like screaming or eating worms or giving in these like
dialogue scenes that didn't make any sense at all, and
they looked like they were from a movie, but I
couldn't figure out which movie at the time because there
was no fucking descriptions of any of it.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Sorry for swearing, You're good.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Great, So we started talking about that and then building
out you know, I mean, that was just that's a
result of this the internet. This was a person who
made movies in the eighties and she's kind of a
cult icon, and so is Richard Kern. But we were like,
what if it was much weirder. What if the answers
were less interesting than some punkers in the eighties making
bizarre videos. What if there was no human explanation for

(28:13):
things like that, and then we started pushing that stuff further,
and so there's a there's a big variety in the
Fish Too videos of like pulling from different types of
videos and different types of scenarios and trying to build
out without ever fully explaining what is going on and
without spoiling what we do reveal in the film. That's
kind of the gist of it.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, it kind of reminded me of like the weirdness.
And this is probably me dating myself, but Max Headroom
is definitely certainly like that weird kind of vibe where
it's like I think, I think the fish tooth element
was really something I was surprising to me as a viewer,
because you kept kind of having all these dynamics, like
you said, of you know, popping up in some videos

(28:57):
that are really weird, some videos that are very ambiguous,
some videos that you're like this, this kind of makes
sense from based on what I've seen, without you know,
trying to jump in too much into it. But I
really think you guys balanced and hit that really well
where the lore feels like now I and now I
feel like I'm coming away with my conversation with you

(29:19):
with homework to understand lung leg now a little bit.
So that's that's really cool. I like kind of like
happier notes. I guess can you guys, Uh what was
the process? Uh? I guess for you, raquel To One
of the things that was really impressed me about your
performance is that duality, that nature of being able to

(29:40):
be this really vulnerable character but also at the same
time to be this really protect it, really guard it.
Can you kind of talk about bringing some of the
complexities of row into life?

Speaker 6 (29:57):
Well, thank you.

Speaker 8 (29:59):
Honestly, Yeah, I am impressed with myself. I'm gonna be
so real like I couldn't And it's crazy because I
think it really truly like art imitates life, and where
you are you are at as a human dictates how
you are as an artist, and so where I was
at that time and place, I was just like, wow.

Speaker 9 (30:19):
Girl, like you really pulled through huh.

Speaker 8 (30:21):
But I mean she was just like me in so
many ways, like this teenage girl who experienced such a
loss and and and so much grief, and not necessarily
with death, but the grief of you know, I'm not

(30:42):
gonna spoil just grief period. I Right before I went
on set, I watched the fallout with Jenna Ortega playing Beta,
and I will credit to her performance or her performance
in that film and her character journey in that film
was something I wasn't necessarily striving for, but it brought

(31:06):
me a lot of clarity because when I first read
the script, I fell in love with it. I think
I found I found the email the other day when
I was cleaning out my inbox of where it was
just like ranting about how much I love the film
like a girl. The girl wanted the job bad she
was she was desperate, but like truly I did, but
I had no clue how to sort of go about

(31:26):
it because I was like I had never sure I
had some training, but I was like, I don't know
if I can carry this emotional weight. If I can
carry it, like how does that even look on me personally?
And how do I And so that watching that film
and watching that character kind of gave me some sort
of tunnel vision. And then after that it was like
I was isolated for a couple of weeks in my

(31:48):
airbnb that my lovely mother got me and then I
the only place that the only place no that she
was my mom. She like down that she helps me
She's the reason I got to that to that set.
But it was just going to set, then back reading
the sides, and then going back again, and then that
was my whole life. And that was my whole world
for two weeks. And if any actor will understand that,

(32:10):
that is just like you. You're in it, and then
you're naturally just gonna that's how it's gonna feel.

Speaker 9 (32:15):
You can't escape that.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
One of the things that I feel like this film
does really well is it has this unconventional sense of
claustrophobia to where for those that have seen the movie
know that it takes place in this like gorgeous island,
and but it you only see like maybe two maybe
three locations throughout the course of this. And Aaron, I'm

(32:42):
kind of curious if you can talk about the maybe
maybe challenges maybe you got lucky, maybe you didn't, but
like of finding a really good location to house this
movie on and really also have it be an addition
to the claus orphobia that we feel throughout the course

(33:03):
as a kind of fade as the walls close in
on Rowin.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
So the number one piece of advice I give to
any low budget filmmaker evers to write for what you
already have. And so how I've been able to successfully
make anything I've ever made for not a lot of
money has been working backwards and writing. I basically always

(33:29):
plot out what do I have access to, what's cool,
cool locations, good actors like, you know, interesting assets that
I have access to of some kind, And in this case,
it was this location which Zach brought to me essentially,
so we were sitting down to write a film and
he had the location essentially. So his mother owns the

(33:49):
house that we shot in primarily, and then you know,
through her relationships with the community and the neighbors and stuff,
we were able to get, you know, the access to
the rest of things around that house. But primarily where
the film started was we don't have a lot of money.
What can we do that's a very character driven piece,
that doesn't have a lot of giant set pieces, that

(34:10):
doesn't have a lot of characters, that's very internal, but
can utilize We have a beautiful two story, one hundred
year old home by the seaside in the Northeast with
just about the most haunted island I've ever seen, right
off the coast of it. What's that about? And then

(34:30):
somehow we got to the internet from there. But you know,
that was a mix of pulling different things in, but
that's that's literally where it started was we have location,
we know it's beautiful, we know it's scenicle.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Shoot it. That's awesome. And I guess like, for you guys,
I'll give you guys like a last minute random since
this does play take place on an island, what is
the one desert island movie that you have?

Speaker 9 (34:59):
Like, wait, what's the one desert movie I would like
take with me?

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Hold on, no, no, So so for clarification for a definition,
desert island movie is the one movie that you can
take on a desert island and you can. That's the
movie you watch for the rest of your days.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
I'll go first of all, well, yeah, I would love
to have a more like cool, abstract indie cult film
that I would like get all this joy out of.
But honestly, I would bring Lord of the Rings Fellowship
of the Ring. It's a very long movie, so that's
helpful finally get to watch one movie forever. But I

(35:39):
also think it just has a little bit of everything.
So that's my my movie.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
It's a good pick.

Speaker 9 (35:47):
I would do The Amazing Spider Man two, Your Guardfield
too too.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
All Right, it's really.

Speaker 8 (35:55):
Gonna hit me with the grief at the end of it,
and then it's just like, oh, I need a second.
So then it's just like, Okay, I can't watch this
movie for a little bit, but then I'll come back because.

Speaker 9 (36:03):
It's the opening is just so good.

Speaker 8 (36:06):
Guys.

Speaker 9 (36:06):
I love Andrew Garfield. Anybody who knows me. My card
named it after Andrew Garfield.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like, I love it. Yet there's a there's a lot
of camp there. I can respect that.

Speaker 9 (36:17):
It's goofy and it's a good movie, everybody. No one
was ready for that.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
It's got my dude, Paul Giomotty in it, you know,
for better or for worse.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah, the Paul Geomotti scene is incredible.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Uh So this is my last question. My last question
is going to be for Aaron, but for you and Zach.
What were some of the challenges that you guys had
in creating the different types of the in Universe videos?
So to say that we talked about with Fish Tooth
because we talked about blending a multitude of different genres,

(36:51):
but it also blends a multitude of different styles as well.
As kind of having these really stunning graphics and visuals
that accompany those portions of the movie.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
Yeah, So, without being too long winded, there's a ton
of videos in the movie. It's funny because we wrote
like we're like, ohll do a movie with three characters,
but there's a ton of characters in the movie that
show up via screens, right, social media, YouTube, all these
different Internet sources. And Zach and I talked a lot
about early two thousands like internet horror and the modern

(37:22):
Internet horror and how sometimes you can really feel when
the filmmakers made all of the Internet videos, there's a
certain like cinema polished to all the videos, and so
we didn't want that at all, and so we outsourced
a ton of the videos in the movie to friends acquaintances,

(37:44):
and when we could get that would shoot, hey, shoot
a TikTok about this. Some of the people in the
movie are actual TikTokers and YouTubers, and we had them
do some custom videos in the style like for the
movie specifically, but in the style of how they would
do a video. Others, we just straight licensed some videos
that already existed, and then we threw some of those

(38:08):
specifically like the Fish Tooth videos. We put those through
a series of processing. I did a bunch of color
grades and VFX and then exported it, re imported it,
uploaded it somewhere, compressed it, downloaded it, and then we
would play it back. On several of the Fish Tooth videos,
we wanted them to feel like they were a VHS rip,

(38:29):
and so we'd play them back on a CRT from
my laptop into a CRT. We record the CRT screen,
then download that, then compressed that again.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
So that's nuts. That's amazing.

Speaker 9 (38:44):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
So so I did lie. This is my last this
is my last question that We'll plug your guys as
socials and I'll get out of your hair. But I
feel like writing a character like fish Tooth and actually
casting that character to feel like are two completely separate challenges.
You know, did you guys as you and Zach were

(39:07):
writing the not the lure, but necessarily the look and
the feel of the actual character and what we actually
see on screen. How close is that or what were
some of the challenges that you guys had in having
bringing that element of the story to life.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
That's a very complicated question for several reasons. That I
don't want to get super into, but suffice to say
that Zach and I it helps Zach as an actor
as well as a writer and director. He's great at everything.
But we really love approaching you know, there's a certain
amount of intent we put into characters and stuff, but

(39:48):
we really really love letting our actors bring a lot
to the characters. And we'll you know, we'll rarely say
no to something as long as it works for the start,
doesn't contradict something else. If a character wants actor wants
to bring something additional, and we'll play with that a
lot too, So we gave everybody a lot of room
to play. Fish Tooth was intentionally always just bizarre, pulling

(40:13):
from existing things. I don't even know how to fully
go into answering that question, except to say that low
LeBlanc is one of a kind, and she always was
fish Tooth for us, and we kind of just knew
that was gonna happen, even before we got our hands

(40:34):
on any footage or talk to her about it at all.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
That's a that's a fair answer given the context of
the film, so I appreciate it. Hopefully, hopefully that that
ambiguity answer will prompt people to check out this movie
once again. It's called It Needs Eyes Aaron Raquel, where
we'll find Joe online work we find more information about
the movie.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
Great, yeah, you can find me. I'd say look for
at Paganerock like The End of the World that starts
with the P thirty three on Instagram or at Formidable
File Films Instagram, at TikTok Formidable Filefilms dot com and
hopefully coming to a festival and if all goes according
to plan other play I'm not gonna blow. We're working

(41:20):
on the cool point. We're gonna cool other ways to
release the movie probably later this year next, but for
now we're doing a festival tour. So look it up.

Speaker 8 (41:29):
Right hey at Raquel Leebish at Instagram, TikTok one, I
have it IMDb.

Speaker 9 (41:36):
That's pretty much it. I'm just knocked here.

Speaker 8 (41:38):
I don't know where this film's gonna go, but I
know you're gonna love it when you see it.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
How would you guys like to help us get mental
health resources into schools, conventions, and other events. Well, now
you can simply go to Patreon dot com for slash
Victims and Villains for as little as one dollar a month.
You guys can help us get mental health resources into
current and upcoming generations, educate and break down stigma surrounding

(42:07):
mental health, suicide and depression, and to get exclusive content
that you can't get anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
And you guys can tell us which Nicholas Cage movie
you want us to cover and we'll do it.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
All it takes to get started is to go to
Patreon dot com forwards on Victims and Villains, or simply
click the link in the episode description wherever you guys
are currently listening or streaming this episode, pick your tier
and get started today. Yes, it's that simple, so clickly,
select the tier that you want and help us get
hope into the hands of the depressed and the suicidal.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Today before you, guys, is going to be with director
Elilah Woodbridge, behind the short film Interference. I really hope
you guys enjoyed this one and continue to support mental
health until we meet it. And I hope you have
a great night and stay classy.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Well welcome, congratulations on the film. It's it's.

Speaker 7 (43:10):
So.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
I have so many questions about this film, and let's
start off with the basic one, like, tell us a
little bit about what this movie is about.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yeah, yeah, all right, So thank you so much for
having me on here for to start. So, Interference is
a queer psychological horror film. It's about one boy's struggle
with paranoia and identity amidst the start of the AIDS
epidemic in the early nineteen eighties.

Speaker 6 (43:39):
So a little surrealist, a little horror.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Just that's it. There's also kind of this like mixed
genre or like I guess mixed media is a little
bit more kind of the way that we explore it
to where it's not just a from like a visual standpoint,
it's not just a straightforward narrative. What were some of
the challenges in creating that look juxtaposition to really have

(44:07):
media be as vital of a party as our protagonists
kind of journey into fear and anxiety.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that definitely. Like, you know, if
you haven't seen the film, there's a lot of usage
of real media from the eighties to sort of introduce
the horror elements. Like there's a lot of archival footage used,
and a lot of the sort of scares in the
film are things that are happening audibly and then happening

(44:39):
like on his TV and his radio and his technology.
So yeah, getting sort of the media aspect right was
super important to us. One of the biggest challenges on
the film was we actually a lot of the footage
is shooting old crttvs and stuff playing on them, and

(45:01):
if you actually film a CRTTV with like a digital camera,
you'll get scan lines up and down it. So we
ended up, you know, thrifting these old crttvs. We brought
them to a TV repair guy to take out all
of the inner, which you know they thought was an

(45:21):
extremely odd request, but you know, didn't ask any questions.
So then we would have these empty shells and we
had to specifically find like really specific sizing for flat
screen TV and an iPad to fit into these two
large like living room TV and then his smaller bedroom TV.

(45:43):
And then we had digital playback happening on those two
screens while we were shooting, So we didn't do any
of the media stuff in post, which that was just
like sort of super important to us to get that
visceralness right, you know, when showing that media.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
That's really fascinating to hear because I feel like, especially
when you watch anything from whether you're talking about an
indie film to a major studio release, and you could
you could tell that there's like obviously like that media
that whatever character is watching that is something that is
they're reacting to. You know, that is put in after

(46:19):
kind of postproductions. So it's really interesting that you guys
chose to kind of do that. And one of the
things that I value a lot about this film is
that not only is I think is its ambition, is
the fact that it's not only this mixed media kind
of presentation, but it's also kind of this like depending

(46:42):
on how you look at it, it's it's either a
fallout from a previous relationship, so you're exploring heartbreak, and
then it's the possibility of possibility of also shyness and
you know, a possible love story. Can you kind of
talk about playing with some of the more ambiguous elements
in this movie.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, I mean it definitely is. I think one of
the most different difficult things about making this kind of
film is you have to figure out, you know, how
much to trust your audience. And you know, we are
trusting our audience as much as I think anyone should,
and sort of you know, giving giving people a lot
of wee way to sort of see this story through

(47:24):
their own eyes and bring their own experiences to it.
We definitely we did, you know, the script was like
a super collaborative effort. We had a lot of different
voices and inputs on that level. And then in post
production as well, we did we did like a whole
sort of like test screening where we had people come

(47:44):
in and like watch the film, answer a bunch of questions,
and we did like, you know, sort of tweak some
of the elements of the film based on the feedback
We were getting to try and make sure like what,
you know, what's getting across, what do we need to
put push harder? And some of those ended up just
being like, you know, we can sort of fix this

(48:05):
with score, or we can fix this with like an
extra second in the cut. So it was a really
really like nuanced, subtle process to get it to the
place where it is where it leaves you something to
think about, but I think still pushes in a relatively
specific direction.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
This film is really smart with how it weaves the
tension because I think when modern we think about modern
day and especially looking back at that AIDS epidemic from
you know, forty some years ago. It seems almost like
a lifetime ago to where you read it in history

(48:45):
books and you're you're not quite sure how it woves,
how like how big of a deal it really was,
the same way that I imagine, you know, in thirty
five years people will be looking back at co of
it and saying kind of that same same exact thing,
And there were so many misconceptions very early on. I'm

(49:07):
kind of curious, what was the research process like for
you guys on the writing side to create this really
personable story but also weave it this really well yeah,
let me start over. Weave that tension as masterfully as

(49:27):
you guys do.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah, I mean, you know, thank you. I appreciate you
saying that, But I mean, so we definitely.

Speaker 7 (49:36):
Are trying to in the film show how a lot
of the content in the early days of the aides
epidemic that was you know, airing on television was really disturbing,
and I would imagine.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Would feel really harmful if you were to watch it,
especially as a young, impressionable teenager. So obviously there's you know,
I think today a lot of people can relate to that,
like there's a lot of you know, being queer and
watching what's playing on the news right now is not
a great experience. So that was definitely something that resonated

(50:14):
a lot with me from that time period that I
wanted to try and capture. And then you know, the
actual archival footage we use, like as you know, the
sound is really important in the film and what's actually
being said and the audio from the television is really
important to the sort of film's plot. So we had

(50:36):
to do basically sort of start post production during the
script process because I had to know what is it
that is going to be playing on the TV during
these scenes and what is it that is going to
horrify him? And I really wanted it to be like authentic,
real content that was actually you know, existing, So we

(50:57):
did this whole big deep dive into like commercials, news broadcasts, PSAs,
all sorts of stuff from that you know, white House
press briefings from that time and sort of basically created
a script of like, let's pull these different elements together

(51:18):
and then so that was in the script from the start,
so that our actors would know what it is they're
reacting to and we would be able to actually have
it be playing on the TV. During the scenes while
we shot them.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
So now I'm kind of curious, did the obviously I
imagine a treatment came first, but did those elements of
the archival footage come first or did the script come first.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
I would say the script definitely came first, and falling
into the more historical lens, I think followed sort of
those tonal elements like this I really started off as
a very total piece, sort of just capture ring paranoia

(52:02):
and senses of isolation, and I think that all of
the research from the time period really sort of cemented,
like let's let's get that feeling really concrete in the
script instead of just being like a tone piece.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah. I also really love the way that this movie
is this like really personal story, but it also kind
of it feels like it's a commentary on the way
that we ensue media and how media dictates us. And
this movie reminded me of I don't know if you've
gotten this, but it definitely kind of reminded me thematically

(52:40):
of I saw the TV Glow a little bit.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
It's so funny that that movie. I mean, we actually
we shot this movie in twenty twenty two, so a
while ago, so I remember we were in post production
and I started seeing trailers where I saw the TV Girl.
I was like, oh, no, I should have got my
movie up faster. I still haven't seen it, but I
know I'm gonna love it, like.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Easy, It's so good and it's so weird and it's god,
it's yeah, it's sunny. It was one of my top
five last year, so I always highly recommend it. But
you know, I mean, and even stepping back, you know,
beyond that, we have you know, literary grites like you know,
George Orwell's nineteen eighty four, John Carpenters, they live you know,

(53:30):
media consumption in our relationship to it have always kind
of been this really ongoing conversation that we've had for
quite a while, especially with the LGBT community and a
lot of the misconceptions or you know, as you said,
whether it was the eighties, the misconception of information in

(53:52):
the eighties with the AIDS epidemic, or you know, even
what we're seeing now, you know, how important was the
media to nail that social commentary in terms of media,
especially for the lgbt QIA plus community.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Yeah, I mean that that was definitely at the forefront
of both the research and also a lot of the
post production, because in posts we were sort of nailing
down the sounds and you know, the actual basically adding
dialogue via the archival footage and kind of drawing that

(54:31):
line of how extreme do we get with this, how
subtle do we keep this was all very important. I
definitely think that obviously sort of as a queer narrative,
that's where this film lands most easily. But I do
think that the usage of the media content I think

(54:55):
can sort of translate across a lot of different like
groups and identity. You know, I think there's a lot
to be said for anyone that is feeling marginalized to
sort of be exposed to content that is making you
struggle with your identity is a universal concept, if not,

(55:16):
you know, just super non specific. So I think we
wanted this to still be accessible to like all audiences
and have there be I think there's still something in
there to resonate even if you you know, haven't had
that experience through a queer lens.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, I definitely, like, you know, I'm not of the
LGBT community. I'm definitely an ally though, and definitely still
like resonated with me even even with you know, I'm
previously mentioned I saw the TV Glow that's very much
a trans narrative and commentary, but for me, I still

(55:54):
took something out of it in the way that we
relate to things like nostalgia and media and you know,
consumption with it. I think one of my last questions
for you is this ending. This ending was just felt
earth shattering. I felt that, like I was so ingrained

(56:15):
into this character's arc and the mystery and the lore
that was kind of like surrounded by him, and also
kind of through his journey in this movie and the
fears that he was implementing. But this movie kind of
takes this like unexpected twist and has this heartbreak And

(56:38):
I'm always kind of curious for endings that I, as
if you were as a critic, also don't see coming.
Is that the initial way that you guys originally planned
to end it? And if not, can you talk about
where this ending came from?

Speaker 7 (56:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (56:58):
I mean I definitely the ending that is interesting that
you sort of jump on X this is not the
ending of many previous iterations of the script, which yeah, no,
it's uh. I think that. No, it's a really interesting
question because I the sort of I think horror trope

(57:20):
ending would be to end on just like the sort
of action climax I guess you could say, and the
results of that without giving too much away and not
sort of you know, jump into another character's shoes and
follow the narrative further. But I really, I mean, we
just had this sense that that was missing something, and

(57:43):
I think that following the narrative from Lewis's perspective at
the end, I think just gives the entire film a
whole different context. You know, we're not inside that isolated
pirnoid perspective, and I think that that is really valuable

(58:04):
to a lot of the themes and in a lot
of the emotions and sort of like you know, heart
filtersness of the film.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
This movie, I feel like, really left me with a
lot of to think about afterwards. It really kind of
brought up a lot of emotions that maybe I don't
necessarily think about on a day to day basis, or
the relationships to certain types of media that I have
in my life. And my last question is going to be,

(58:36):
what do you hope that people kind of take away
from Interference?

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely I hesitate to dictate something
that I want someone to you know, I'm definitely of
the opinion that, like, you know, this might be like
a David Lynch quote or something, but like the film
should ask questions. Yeah, yeah, the answers, and I think

(59:03):
I think I want people to come away just thinking
further about it, you know, asking themselves what happened, why
did those things happen? What was the character feeling during
these scenes? I mean, which are you know, very basic
questions that I think most people ask themselves while they

(59:23):
watch a film, But I think those are really the
meat of getting to that deeper place. And you know,
obviously that whole discussion about media and identity and society
and belonging and you know, any number of things that
this film kind of invokes. I think all come down

(59:43):
to just watching it and sort of having that experience
of just being really curious.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
I think, well, that's awesome, and I really hope that
like audiences get to experience this sooner rather than I am.
I will leave you with this, where can people find
you online? And where can we find out more information
about the film and then follow its festival run journey.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Yeah, my instagram has all of the updates on new
festivals we're getting accepted to. We are sort of, i
would say, like a third into the festival run, so
we definitely have more sort of screenings on the horizons
and hopefully more opportunities to see the film on the

(01:00:30):
big screen. But my instagram is Lilah dot Sophia dot
W l I l A s O p h i
A dot W and that's you know, got all the updates,
all of the sort of Indiegogo perks, and all of
the trailers and fun stuff related to the film.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
Say that rope off of you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
And you are loved.

Speaker 6 (01:01:05):
Drop that nine off of your.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Spit those pills out of your mouth, leave the cun
out of your.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Head, and know you are loved.

Speaker 6 (01:01:27):
You are alive, You're not alone.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Don't be afraid anymore.

All Episodes

Queer Screams Film Festival (2025, Part Two) | Episode #478

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Queer Screams Film Festival (2025, Part Two) | Episode #478