January 19, 2025 • 59 mins
On January 15th, 2025, the world of cinema lost one of the greatest storytellers to ever come into the medium in David Lynch. A nearly 40 years career that spanned the medium of not only film but television, art, music, books and even becoming a world class speaker. In the winter of 2023, we sat out to make a David Lynch podcast called the “Big Dream Podcast”. This podcast would have spanned the entirety of Lynch’s career. However, timing was the enemy and the podcast never made its way past the pilot episode. This is that pilot episode with filmmaker David Gayne. Enjoy and may David Lynch rest in peace.
If you or someone you know is reading this right now and struggling with suicide, depression, addiction, or self-harm - please reach out. Comment, message, or tweet at us. Go to victimsandvillains.net/hope for more resources. Call the suicide lifeline at 988. Text "HELP" to 741-741. There is hope & you DO have so much value and worth!This episode of Victims and Villains is written by Josh “Captain Nostalgia” Burkey. It is produced by Burkey. Music by Aves, through Canva, & Purple Planet (https://bit.ly/ppcoms). Help us get mental health resources into schools and get exclusive content at the same time. Click here (http://bit.ly/vavpatreon) to support us today!
If you or someone you know is reading this right now and struggling with suicide, depression, addiction, or self-harm - please reach out. Comment, message, or tweet at us. Go to victimsandvillains.net/hope for more resources. Call the suicide lifeline at 988. Text "HELP" to 741-741. There is hope & you DO have so much value and worth!This episode of Victims and Villains is written by Josh “Captain Nostalgia” Burkey. It is produced by Burkey. Music by Aves, through Canva, & Purple Planet (https://bit.ly/ppcoms). Help us get mental health resources into schools and get exclusive content at the same time. Click here (http://bit.ly/vavpatreon) to support us today!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're victims and villains.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
My name is Josh and this past week on January fifteenth,
the world of both cinema and the world at large
was very sad to hear about the of David Lynch,
in my opinion, is the greatest filmmaker of all time
and definitely my favorite. I love this guy's work, ranging
from his crazy early shorts like The Alphabets and Eraserhead
(00:27):
as a feature films all the way up into his
insane last two projects of Twin Peaks, The Return and
Inland Empire. A couple of years ago, in the late
winter of twenty twenty three, I started the idea of
wanting to do a David Lynch podcast that would be
done in seasons that would span everything that his career touched,
(00:49):
including his feature films, short films, music, books, artistry, and more.
And we set out to do a test pilot for that,
which which at the time though we recorded it was
not actually called anything. We called it the Untitled David
Lynch Podcast, and eventually the name arrived on The Big
(01:09):
Dream Podcast, which is very thematic of a lot of
Lynch's work, but also at the same time it is
a reference to his twenty thirteen album of the same name.
Joe would have also explored unproduced David Lynch content as well,
which in this original pilot episode we were Ryan attempting
to do Ronnie Rockett, which, if you know anything about Lynch,
(01:33):
is his most ambitious project and his passion project that
he had all the way from the time of Elephant
Man in nineteen eighty until the President that never came
to fruition, and that was always kind of the passion project,
the one project he really wanted to get off the ground.
I would argue it's also one of his most ambitious
But in this pilots we do touch on that, and
(01:54):
we were going to do a full blown episode on it. It
was actually going to be our first episode. This I
would consider it to be our episode zero. This is
us just kind of essentially gushing about why we love
Lynch as a filmmaker, and I was fortunate enough to
potentially start this show with a filmmaker as well, who
I got introduced to through Matt Kelly of Friends over
(02:17):
at Horror.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Movie podcast Fantastic Podcast. Can you ever check that out?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Please go give them a listen. They're incredible and incredible
horror podcast, but ultimately this pilot was shot and recorded
with Zach Rain. Now, if you guys don't know who
Zach Raine is, he is the writer, director, and editor
on the independent horror comedy Home Record, which you guys
can currently stream on Prime or any and most major
(02:43):
VOD services. The thing that losing Lynch was not a
huge devastation is a really a bit of a massive understatement.
And I haven't thought about this podcast in years. We
tried for almost a year to get this thing off
the ground, and timing and scheduling just kind of kept
butting heads. So if you guys would like to hear
(03:04):
more of the Big Dream podcast, let us know.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I did consider doing a.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
MAXI series on this, which would cover all of the
Lynch's actual feature films, not necessarily go as in depth
as originally im preaching, but going through everything from Erase
Our Head all the way up until the Inland Empire
in two thousand and six. So if you guys are
interested in more Lynch content, let us know. But without
further ado, we're gonna take a quick commercial break. When
(03:34):
we come back, Ladies and gentlemen, present to you guys,
the unaired pilot of the Big Dream Podcast I hope
you enjoy. If you were someone you know is listening
to this podcast right now and you're struggling with suicide, addiction,
self harm, or depression, we encourage you guys to please
reach out. This is the heartbeat or why we do
(03:56):
what we do. Suicide is currently the tenth leading cause
of death in the United States, and as of this recording,
there are one hundred and thirty two suicides that take
place each and every day on American soil, and when
you scale back internationally, there are eight hundred thousand successful suicides.
That is one death roughly every forty seconds. So if
(04:18):
you were someone you know was struggling, you guys can
go to Victims and Villains dot net ford slash hope.
That resource is going to be right in the description
wherever you guys.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Are currently listening or streaming this.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
There you'll find resources that include the National Suicide Lifeline,
which is one eight hundred two seven three eighty two
fifty five. You can also text help to seven seven
four one. You LUSO have a plethora of other resources,
including churches, getting connected with counselors, LGBT resources like the
(04:50):
Trevor Project, and also a veteran the hotline as well.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Please if you hear nothing else.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
In this show, under understand that you, yes, you listening
to this right now, have value and worth. We get it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Suicide, depression, mental health.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
These are hard topics and this stigma around them doesn't
make it any easier. But please consider the resources right
in the descriptions below wherever you guys are listening, because
once again, you have value, any of worth, so please.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This is the test pilot for a untitled David Lynch
podcast coming in Strong Projectives Villains Podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Network in five four three two one.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, before we get into David Lynch, let's let's get
to know one another, because I mean, this is also
learning experience for us because we met thanks to our
mutual friend Matthew Kelly from Horror Nights in.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Podcasts, a great guy. Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Let's just kind of like get to know one another,
like first and kind of like.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
How we who we are as people?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And then like what really draws us into like the
crazy world of David Lynch.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Cool sounds good. My name is Zach Zach Gaine. Pleasure
to be here. I am a filmmaker and I wrote
about film as well for screen anarchy dot com. And
I know Matthew because he interviewed me about a film
I made in twenty twenty, my movie Home Record came out,
(06:40):
which is a little Lynchian for sure. And Matthew had
a podcast or has a podcast about pilots, and of
course when he asked me what I would like to discuss,
I chose my all time favorite show, Twin Peaks, and
we just scussed Northwest Passengers the pilot.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Wow, that's crazy, I wanted to tell me. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So, uh, those of you guys that have been listening
to uh, some of the podcasts that we produce here
know me. My name is Josh I go by Captain Nostalgia.
But I've been podcasting for about at this point, about
six or seven years. I've done the comic thing with
victims and villains. I've done the horror with abisca thing.
(07:33):
I've done Nicholas Cage with That's my praise and.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, it just it. This is this is.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I met Matthew while covering Creature Future, which is a
horror convention slash film festival in Gettysburg a few years ago,
and we talked about mental health and and like horror
kind of like the connections, and that's that's really the
underlining like theme of like what the content that I
(08:02):
produced as a creator is that everything has a mental
health angle to it. And coming in also with being
the director and the programmer for the film festival, which
is the first film festival, it's kind to be hor
centric mental health focused. Mental health is something that really
means a lot to me, and I actually like came
(08:26):
into being a Lynchian at a complete accident.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I feel like I, like.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
As a cinophile, like I'd seen like a racer head,
and so I was like I'd seen the first season
of Twin Peaks, but like.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I feel like I hadn't like didn't merely make.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
An impression, because I feel like when you watch a
racer head, just like on a whim, you're like, that
was a weird experience, and it's like you're not quite
sure if you like it. You're not quite sure if
you hate it. And I think it was like the
second some of the seconds into Twin Peaks that I
was like, I think I need to jump a little
(09:04):
bit more into this guy's filmography.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
That's pretty funny considering that that was a lot of
people's exit point for Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Uh I think the first half it's like really controversial
because like I got into The X Files before I
got into Twin Peaks, and I love to Covey as
an actor, so like getting to see him in a
role that's vastly different than.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Like Fox Moulder was really interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Like and the fact that like his role as Denise
is like leaps and bounds ahead of its time, and
just really what they were able to do with him
in uh In in the return, I was like, dang, Like,
don't get me wrong, Like, I definitely think that the
back half of Twin Peaks at second season is like MS,
(10:07):
I definitely understand why people hate it.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I wasn't expressing a personal opinion when I said that,
I'm with you. I think season two, well, yeah, it
jumps the rails here here and there. I think there's
a lot of really interesting stuff going on, and perhaps
my favorite image of the whole show is Nadine Hurley
as a jacked up cheerleader. So I have second season
I think for that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, I'm actually rewatching it right now for the third time,
and I just got to that part where she wakes
up the come up and like they go to the
double R and her and Ed get the milkshakes and
she like just clean, like oh no, not again. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Or when she's auditioning to be a cheerleader and she
she chucks the other person in here.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Uh. The second season, I think, like, like in like
the back half definitely has its like golden moments. And
I probably have like listened to like way too many
podcast interviews and like podcast deep dives on like the
relationship between it's like CBS and or ABC whoever like
(11:23):
was viewing the the it at the time, and like
how they like pushed for we need.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
The big reveal. Yeah, we'll get to twin peaks eventually.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah. So, to to tell you my first introduction to Lynch,
when I was in high school, me and two of
my other movie nerd friends had a Monday night movie
club where we would each choose a film that the
others hadn't seen. So since this was I was in
grade nine, so there was still plenty I hadn't seen yet,
(11:59):
but I really wanted to watch Blue Velvet, so I
brought Blue Velvet to the team. It was not received
well by the others. I wouldn't say I loved it,
but I was certainly fascinated. This would have been in
like late nineteen ninety nine, early two thousand, because in
(12:22):
two thousand and one I live in Toronto, So when
the Toronto Film Festival happens in September, I scooped up
tickets for Muholland Drive. And I was at the Toronto
premiere of Mulholland Drive back and that would be the
night that I absolutely fell in love with Lynch. He
was there to introduce the film, which wasn't that exciting
(12:46):
for me because I hadn't seen the movie yet, and yeah,
the first you know, ninety minutes of Muholland Drive are
what they are, and I was just totally in it,
loving it. And then there's the dramatic turn that we
all know, and just on the subway home, me and
my friend were just scratching our heads. But whereas he
(13:11):
just completely rejected the abstraction of the third act and
disliked it as a result, I was just completely infatuated
and could not wait for the film's release date, which
was in October. And when it came out in October,
I was there opening weekend to see the second time,
and I just kept going back. And for that reason,
(13:32):
I think m'hull and Drive might have to be my
favorite David Lynch film.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Oh all right, I uh I don't my day.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
My favorite like David Lynch movie is definitely Lost Highway Cool.
So David Lynch kind of became like this like weird
mental health escape for me. And I know that sounds
like really weird to.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Say that to me.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Uh yeah, but you say that to like like the
person who's like doesn't like David Lynching, You're like, why wow?
And like so the first year that we did Horrific Hope,
it was putting on a film festival and a massive
event like this was. It was a really large undertaking
(14:22):
that I kind of underestimated, and I remember like just
being like really burnt out on like promotional stuff and
just kind of like really flying by the seat of
my pants, and I jumped back into on a whim.
I was like, I really want to revisit a raser head.
(14:44):
So I rewatched it and there was something that flicked
for me. The second time. I am like really notorious
for like being open about the fact that I as
a as a husband and as a man, like I
don't want to be a father, and I just I
(15:06):
really connected with like Henry's like fear of like being
a parent and like having control over like another life.
And the way that like Lynch put that in this
like really bizarre, it's surrealistic nightmare just like clicked for me.
And I remember like jumping back into that. And I
(15:30):
went out and like I had boughten b Loue, Velvet
Mahal and Drive. I had like almost every David Lynch
movie physically, and I just jumped into it. I went
eraser Head, I jumped into The Elephant Man, and I
was surprised by like how beautiful the Elephant Man was,
(15:53):
and just went in and like I was watching all
of his like feature films on line with like Quinn Peaks.
And then I recently at my day job, had gotten
like a promotion that like put me behind a computer
for eight hours a day. So I had dual monitors
that I would be doing my work on one computer
(16:16):
and I had a YouTube playlist of David Lynch shorts
on the other. And I was just like efatuated, and
I had watched at this point, I'd watched like it's
about everything that he had produced in with the exception
of like maybe like a short an Eraserhead documentary that
(16:39):
he did in two thousand and one, and then.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He did it's called Eraserhead Stories and.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Supplement.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yes, it is a supplement for the Criterion release, so
I haven't watched it yet, but.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
And then there's a there's a French film that he
had like shot a short for. I've seen the short,
but I haven't seen like the actual movie, so I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Count that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, I can't wait till the time comes to discuss
The Elephant Man, because that's not a film I particularly
enjoyed discussing for the last ten years. I probably saw
it when you saw it kind of early on the
Lynch Journey, and then you know, I thought it was
(17:32):
an excellent film, you know, an Academy Award winner, but
I didn't feel I didn't recognize it as belonging in
the Lynch over whatever as much as the others. So
it wasn't until it had its four K re release
and it actually opened in theaters in Japan during the pandemic,
(17:56):
which is where I spent the pandemic, so I got
to see it in theater in four K and it
was like watching it for the first time. But perhaps
we should talk about The Elephant Man when we talk
about the Elephant.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, The Elephant Man and The Straight Story are two
really interesting films to talk about in Lynch's filmography because
from a narrative standpoint, they feel completely different than something
like Blue Velvet, wind Peaks, Lost Highway, and they feel
(18:34):
very much like linear. They feel very much like really straightforward.
I would probably say they're probably the most comprehensive, comprehensible
David Lynch movies. But wind Print, which is a because
a boutique label out of Australia, did a release for
(18:57):
The Straight Story and one of their special features on
that disc is like talking about how you look at
this like stretch of like David Lynch's career where he's
making like fire Walk with Me, Lost Highway, the Straight
Story in mahaland Drive, and how like to the average
(19:20):
viewer the Straight Story might seem like the odd man out,
but he like there's a special feature that like breaks
it down and like you actually get to see and
like understand how it is a hold up right next
to other films in his his filmography, and I think that,
(19:43):
like The Elephant Man Is a Fast is another fascinating
one because again, it doesn't necessarily feel like a Lynchian
film on the surface, but once you kind of like
get into it and you break it down, then it's like, Okay,
this definitely does feel like a Lynch film.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Here's a piece of trivia off the top of your head,
can you tell me what The Straight Story and Elephant
Man have in common? Like, very very clearly have in common.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
They're both biopics that kind of take a just a
really bizarre like story and bring it to light.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That is a well, that's absolutely true. But I would
say the reason for that is because both of them
are films not written by Lynch. That's what they have
in common and one way they stand out from this filmography.
So what you know, So you're taking a script that
is a more typical film than any Lynch film, of course,
(20:46):
and then you give it to this director, and so
all of the Lynchisms are going to come from the telling,
you know, rather than the bones of the story.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's fascinating to me because like I know that he
hadn't there are there are obviously movies that he hasn't
written that he's directed, but then there are also uh
projects that he's co written, like Barry Giffert with wild
Heart and Lost.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
In a Way and Twin Peaks and Twin Peaks of course.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, I can't mary Sweeney his director, I'm sorry,
his his editor sometimes producer, or maybe I'm confusing two people,
but I believe Mary Sweeney wanted to make The Straight Story.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I believe she possibly discovered the script and maybe even
pushed it on him, and he was resistant. But then
I think he got it. He got why she thought
he should be the one to tell the story, and uh,
and I I believe that I know why he's the
one to tell tell the story as well, because I
(22:00):
would say, again, maybe this should be an entire episode
about the Straight Story, but like all of the heartwarming
small town stuff that he kind of brings to Blue
Velvet and Twin Peaks, like all of the sweet scenes,
to me, it's like giving those moments an entire film.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's uh. I was.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I was floored the first time I saw The Straight
Story because I had just gotten off like watching like
Blue Velvet and Fire a Walk with Me, so like
I did a triple feature, and then you get to
this straight story and you're just like, I'm not crying,
You're crying because it is this like my god. Yeah,
(22:49):
and I actually just recently watched Paris Texas, which is
those you guys that don't know. Paris Texas was a
nineteen eighty four drama starring Stanton And it's kind of
like when you have that reveal at the end of
the straight story that he's the he's Alvin's brother, it's
(23:10):
kind of like this like inverse of like he was
the brother going to find his brother in Paris, Texas.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, man, Dave David Lynch
has a wild career, and I think over the course
of this podcast, you know, hopefully we'll touch on probably
not only his career as a director, writer, showrunner, television creator,
but also the fact that like he's an accomplished painter,
(23:51):
he is an accomplished animator, musician. I mean, the dude
like and like also a world renowned speaker on meditation. Like,
the dude is just super talented and probably easily one
of the most fascinating careers I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I think if I were to if I were to
attempt to, you know, find find a base with which
to analyze like every single Lynch film, you know, I might,
I might go straight to his Okay, So I've had
the fortune of seeing David Lynch lecture on meditation a
(24:36):
handful of times, a small handful of times, because he
used to he used to throw these There were these
one off events happenings, the David Lynch Festival of Disruption,
and he did a lot of philosophizing in those and
you know, you can go on YouTube and hear everything
he has to say about transcendental meditation. But he does
(24:56):
a lot of talk about something he refers to as
the unified field. He has this graph that he's he's
drawn up many times. A lot of his book Catching
the Big Fish is also devoted to this, you know,
and it boils down to an essence. He his analogy
is he's a fisherman, and by meditating he sort of
(25:17):
transcends into this field of pure creativity in the subconscious.
And as of course we discuss his films are are
rooted in the subconscious. I would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, yeah, I would actually.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, I mean, certainly when he gets into what I've
been referring to as his Inland trilogy. I believe that Lost,
Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, and Inland Empire make up what
I've been calling his Inland trilogy, which is like into
the mind, these deep abstract dives into the brain, essentially
(26:01):
into the subconscious. You know. Perhaps Mulholland Drive is the
most clear cut illustration of that, because I feel that
one is more literally a dream than the others, more
literally a psychological trip than the others. But yeah, so
(26:21):
that's why I feel that his philosophies about transcendental meditation
are are so relevant to where he's coming from as
an artist. And yeah, I think you're write money that
mental health is what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
He He also like did a documentary back in twenty well,
probably going to butcher the name. I think it's something
along the lines of meditation piece creativity, if I remember correctly.
But it's just a literally he basically like videotaped his
(26:59):
like lecture and then like he's together a narrative, and
meditation is something that for me, like is something that
like I still struggle with because I grew up in
a fairly conservative Christian household, still practicing Christian, and like
(27:20):
there are obviously those times where like you know, you
should like do like meditation or yoga, because like there's
like rich in philosophies out there that like talk about
like how demonic it is. And meditation has been something
that like my wife and I have glowly started to
(27:42):
practice over the last three or four years. And I
remember like hearing him lecture on transcendental meditation and just
like being blown away and like maybe maybe I've had
this like wrong this entire time. And he's done like
other interviews, he did a he did a podcast with
(28:05):
Russell Brand of all people about meditation, and just hearing
him like speak on it and just his like passion
and just how clear his own mental health is. Embodying
some of those practices has definitely, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Improved my own mental health.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And that's also part of the reason that I really
respect him as an entertainer, because he's not just this
like weird, weird guy that creates these like surrealist nightmare
movies or short films or however you've been introduced to him.
But he's a director. He's an artist that is so
much deeper and much more profound than that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, and not only that, he's an artist who, as
you know, depicts violence, really really ugly violence, And a
lot of filmmakers who do that get criticized for for
doing that, for portraying violence and perhaps delighting in it
as a common accusation. But with Lynch, anyone who's taken
(29:10):
the deep dive knows that he's really deliberate in his
usage of violence, and he does it to make a
profound point. And the points that he makes we'll be
discussing throughout the season.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I think I think like Wild at Heart and like
Lost Highway or like two capital examples of how he
uses violence and uses it not necessarily just to be
violent for violent's sake, but like, like you said, like
has a purpose in that insight. Yeah, And I also
(29:44):
think it's like really interesting and like starting off with
a famous project like Ronnie Rocket, we also get to
see how he also uses something like sex in his
films as well. And I I don't think I've ever
read a horny or script.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I'm excited.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I I'm I'm not sure if I should reveal that
we haven't done the Ronnie Rocket bit yet.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Sorry, sorry to make you up to edit this portion possible.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's fine, It's fine, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I can't wait to reread it because it's not fresh
in my mind. But to jump back in, you know,
speaking of obscure David Lynch projects that we're looking forward
to tackling this project, I think the one that I'm
looking forward to revisiting the most would be his short
lived TV series on the Air.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
On the Air Man What a That and Hotel Room
were like two really really like wild shows. I'm like,
I'm kind of surprised that like both of them didn't
like actually has like a life past what they have,
and it really really kind of makes me sad.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, I can't say I'm terribly surprised. What I wouldn't
give for more on the air his.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Uh yeah, his relationship with television is really something that
is interesting to me because he he like creates this
like phenomenon with twin peaks, and you just see him
like trying to like continuously like recapture that with on
the air with Hotel Room. Mohaland Drive was originally supposed
(31:34):
to be a Ron Howard and Brian Grazer produced pilot
I don't know if you've seen Yeah, I don't know
if you've seen that.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
It's hs like long before the criterion down.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, it's uh, the pilot for it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's it's still really similar, but it's like it's still
like vastly different. And I would have loved to see,
like you could definitely see like the hallmarks of like
how they would have like developed the characters over like
a few episodes.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I mean, it's actually so cool because you get an
insight into number one, what he was doing with Twin Peaks,
which is like setting up this beautiful question. You know,
obviously with Twin Peaks, the whole like who killed Laura
Palmer is like this golden goose, and once you saw
(32:31):
the murder, that's like killing the golden goose. Lynch famous instead,
And with Mulholland Drive, you see what it looks like
when Lynch is making a pilot with no ending where
he's just crafting a question, and the fact that he
was able to revisit the project a year later and
come up with an answer, so to speak, is just
(32:55):
so exciting to me.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
How would you guys like to help us get mental
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(33:22):
mental health, suicide.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And depression, and to get exclusive.
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(33:49):
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Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I watched it a couple of weeks ago for the
first time and remembered, Yeah, like, I remember the way that.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
A couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
No, I watched the pilot version because I hadn't seen
the pilot version. I was really curious, and I remember,
like the way that it ends, and like just my
jaw dropping and being like, man like, I'm both like
I feel like I walked away with like the pilot,
having these like mixed emotions where I'm like, I'm really
(34:32):
glad that like investors came and were like, we want
to see how this story ends. Make it a movie,
and he got to like redo portion like redo, like
give a proper ending. But I'm also like, man like,
I would have loved to see this been like a
mini series. Yeah, yeah, like like a kin to like
(34:52):
the first season a twin peaks, like it doesn't have
to be long.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That's one of the greatest Would you rather I've as
a cinema lover that I've ever heard, would you rather
see have the movie David, Sorry, have the film will
Holland Drive, which is my favorite film by my favorite filmmaker.
Or would I rather have w Holland Drive exist as
this hypothetical three season TV show where I could have
(35:18):
had thirty hours of it? Man, I don't know what
I would prefer, because, like I said, the film actually
is my favorite, so maybe if that weren't the case,
I would easily choose the show. But since I considered
such a perfect package. I don't want to mess with that.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well, so, like where I'm at, like I would have
I think that in two Thou in like nineteen ninety
nine when they originally shot this, I think that it
doesn't necessarily work the way that prestigious like television works nowadays.
Like we're in this like golden age of like the
streaming where you have like Netflix, HBO, Amazon, and.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
We got to see what that looks like. Not to
jump ahead, but like we get to eventually we would
get to see what it looks like with David Lynch
having control of the modern landscape of television landscape.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, I'm still convinced that, Like for as much as
I love like Lost My Way Twin Peaks, the Return
is like his magnum opus, Like that's like the best
thing he's done.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
I think so too. It's the fact that mohand Drives
a film. I get to say it's my favorite film, yeah,
only because the Return is not a film.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Sure, yeah, yeah, But like I think it would have
been like interesting to be like take something like mahaland
Drive and make it to be like this like eight
episode like prestigious television and just let Lynch have it
and that's kind of one of the things that like
make me really sad that like his quote unquote like
(36:50):
cinematic career has like been on hiatus since two.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Thousand and six with Inland Empire.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
But it hasn't. I mean, of course it has, but
return couldn't, as we both agreed, could not be more satisfying.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yes, but like there have been these like and of
course he's he's made, you know, the short film like
what did Jack Do?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
He's made like other short films.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
He's he's written books, he's done music, But I like
there have been like whispers of this like Netflix special
or like ser like mini series that he was going
to do with Naomi Watts and Laura Dern and now
it's kind of just like dead in the water. And
(37:35):
I'm like, man like David Lynch proved with their return
that he is like a filmmaker that is like grimed
the golden age that we now.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Have with the question though is I hate the freakin'
question is like how did it do? How did Showtime?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Do?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I know that even if they didn't profit, it would
have been worth it for Showtime because they got a
zillion subscribers just for for that, so it would have
been worth it. And I don't know how this stuff
is tabulated, but I don't know if David Lynch is
a profitable creator.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
That's and that's that's the thing that I think that
is like really interesting to like talk about and like
do a podcast about him, is because like we're making.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
This show for people like ourselves.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Like I feel like with doing something like horror or
like comics or you know, any other type of podcast,
you can really like feel to like such a vast audience,
but when you are talking about a filmmaker like Lynch,
it is a very narrow audience. And I think that, like, yeah,
(38:52):
I think that like for him is like as a
as a director and as a creator, I think that,
like I wouldn't necessarily say that he's profitable, but I
definitely think that there is like a demand for him.
But you know, Showtime like they have like the exclusive rights,
(39:13):
Like if you want any any Twin Peaks merchandise whatsoever,
Showtime is the only place you can get.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Is that right? So I had the rare release of
the return because the supplements were loaded.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yes they were.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I have the complete series and I love how like
every single disc is just loaded with like rape bonus features, which.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Is really funny because, as I mentioned earlier in the episode,
I've been die hard since the early years of high school.
So in Grade twelve, I did a presentation on the
Hall and Drive. So I brought you know, I had
a TV in the class, and I brought in my
DVD and Lynch used to be somebody who he I
(40:01):
don't know if you know this, but Mulholland Drive didn't
even have chapter selection. Not only were there no bonuses,
he refused to let people go to their favorite scene.
He was trying to make it so the only way
the film could be watched is from beginning to end.
So for the purposes of a kid trying to show
a scene on a DVD for a presentation, this was
(40:21):
like incredibly inconvenient. So like now that the return is
here and or this wave of criterion with all these
supplements like this is so the opposite end of the
coin to the to the Lynch DVDs we used to get,
which were bare bones nothing. You do the work, I'm
not giving you anything.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, from what I've read, like when Universal originally released
the DVD of Mall and Drive, you got like, uh,
you got like a little like yeah, you got like
the the clues that came into it, Like it made
it a little bit more cohesive. I guess is the
(41:02):
best word I can say. But you really had to
like be a detective to get it, I guess, And that's.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
A key word though, detective. I think a detective is like,
you know, who is the detective? Is a question twin
Peaks the return asks, and I think that's a not
so dissimilar to the other question. It asks who is
the dreamer? And I feel he's asking that question throughout
many of his films.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, that's one of the things that again, like I
really love about Lynch is that he's probably one of
the only filmmakers that I've ever come into contact with
that I have to like like thoroughly think about what
I just viewed and like what he's trying to say,
because like, for a lot of what I've done over
(41:52):
the years with victims and villains and being a podcaster
that's taking elements of pop culture and leading them to
mental health. It's really it's really easy to do something
like that because you know, you can spin with about
anything to talk about mental health. Whereas David Lynch is like,
(42:14):
nothing is like this, nothing is surface level, like I
think the sir, the most surface level you'll ever get
is something like the straight story. But like he's a
he's such this like multi layered director that you're like,
man like I. I I remember, like the first time
(42:34):
I saw Lost Highway, I had gotten it the the
Keynote Lobo review, which is notoriously it's it's just the movie.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah, probably no chapter selection.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, And I'm really glad that Criteria picked up Lost
Highway last year because they're there. Their version of it
is incredible. But I remember like watching it on a
Sunday morning, and I spent I spent the entire week
thinking about that movie, listening to like the podcast about
(43:11):
that movie, and it rolled around where I was like, man,
like exactly week, I was like, I need to watch
this again. And he's the only filmmaker that I've ever
done that with. And I remember like logging the second
screening of the Lost Highway on letterbox and I just remember,
(43:35):
this movie has haunted me for literally seven days.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
It felt like the ring.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Yeah, Well, I'm glad you brought Lost Highway back up
again because I mentioned at the beginning of the episode
that my first experience was Blue Velvet and then Mulholland Drive.
But you've just reminded me that that's I'm totally wrong.
My actual first experience of David Lynch would be not
nineteen ninety seven because that's when it was theatrical theatrically released,
(44:04):
although it could have been later nineteen ninety seven, but
when it came on video, it was on the pay
per view black box. I don't know if anyone remembers
the old world of pay per view. You could get
something called a black box where you would get pay
per view for free. So Lost Highway was on pay
per view, which is like PVOD nowadays, paid the video
(44:26):
in the old So that's when I saw Lost Highway
for the first time as a thirteen year old with
like watching it as if it was a horror movie,
as you sort of said, but you know what, it
is a horror movie. And this would have been at
my phase, Like I guess, I was something like thirteen
years old in nineteen ninety seven, and this was when
(44:48):
I was discovering horror. This is when I was seeing
like Nightmare on Elm Street for the first time. Hell Racer,
just all the classics. This is when I'm experiencing like
Halloween one, two, three, four, five, And then I watch
Lost Highway and I'm legitimately scared, you know, like I
love horror movies and they're exciting to me. But then
(45:11):
I throw on Lost Highway and I'm genuinely shitting my pants.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, dude, I will die on the hill. That Lost
Highway is one hundred percent a horror movie.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, And like.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
People were like, I don't understand what you can call it.
I'm like, dude, it is. It is one hundred percent
a horror movie. That is probably like one of like
the biggest fears that like I have as a husband
is like, you know, you hear stories all the time
about like the guys being like wrongly accused of like
killing their wives. And I'm like, man, like what happens
(45:46):
if I ended up like in this like Fred Manson
type of situation where I'm just like f like totally screwed,
because like it actually like happened to Robert Blake, who
plays the mystery Man, like you mean five years after
the release, so he this was the so Robert Blake
who plagues the mystery man. He uh, and maybe maybe
(46:10):
we do an episode on this because this is fascinating.
So Robert Blake was in two thousand and four, he
had married this girl, he'd married this like younger girl,
and he had actually been accused of her murder. It's very,
(46:30):
very similarly to Fred's arc throughout the course of the film, and.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
So it must have been inspired in some way. Why
else associate Robert Blake with this project.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Which is is wild because it's it's foreshadowing Robert Blake's
career or like what his life would be like in
like five to six years after the release of that movie.
But you mean it happened, yes, Yeah, it happened in
two thousand or well, like Lost Highway was like Lynch's
(47:03):
take on like the oj trial. So it's it's a weird,
like little circle that it just happens to have.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah, I mean, I guess we'll discuss this when it
comes time to discuss Copper. But like, do you feel
that Bill Pullman was wrongly accused?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Man, that's a loaded question. I don't know if I've
ever actually like sat down and like asked that, Like I.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Think it's an important question.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
It very much is, and I think I'm probably gonna
have to like marinate on it and let it like
stuck with me until we get to Lost Highway, because
like that is definitely something. So this is gonna be
a podcast where we're going to be discussing like Lynch.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Like deep dive on Lynch.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
So I think it was like a good like intro
episode to kind of like talk about it, like tease
a little bit of everything that we have planned for
this first season of the show.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, a pretty solid introduction to who we are, how
we how we feel.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, I think what is the most interesting project?
Speaker 1 (48:27):
You are thinking.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Like it's going to be the most interesting to cover
in this episode.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I could speculate, because I'm sure that I will probably
enjoy every discussion equally honestly, But I guess, as I
already said, some of the projects I'm looking forward to
discussing the most, I guess are on the air because
it's not often thought about, but by myself included, It's
(48:56):
been a while since I've thought about it on the air.
And also Ronnie, I think it's really cool that you're
so keen to explore Ronnie Rockett because most people aren't
too familiar with this unproduced Lynch film, and maybe maybe
our listeners might enjoy also reading the script and preparation
(49:17):
for that episode.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
And yeah, yeah, now Rodney Rockett is a It's really
I'm first off as a sinophile, I am fascinated by
unmade movies. So I've read like several scripts throughout the
years of like movies that could have been, Like I'm
(49:40):
convinced that we got the wrong Justice League movie. Still,
George Miller had a great George Miller had had a
great script.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, so, like Roddy Rockett.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Is definitely something I'm really excited to talk about because
I definitely think it's fascinating that, like you look at
that a script like that, and you read it and
then you see like the landscape of like how this
unmade movie has had like elements cherry picked and like
(50:17):
woven into like other projects that he's been a part of, defferently.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
As a as a filmmaker or as a as an
attempted filmmaker. I've managed to get two films made and released.
But I'm starting to appreciate, you know how I think
gilml I recently saw Giamo del Toro say this, how
every filmmaker has a shelf of unproduced scripts. Probably more
(50:44):
produce unproduced scripts than scripts. And I'm starting to realize
the truth of this as my own stack is starting
to culminate, and I'm starting to understand firsthand how ideas
that belong to a script that's never going to see
the light of the day get repackaged into something that will. So, yeah,
I'm definitely looking forward to rereading Roddie Rocket with Under
(51:05):
the Lens, knowing Lynch's filmography as well as I do,
to see some of these things you're suggesting.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, I'm also like, I'm really like I think it's
gonna be curious and like when we get into like
some of his like other ventures as far as like
music we've like been texting about, Like his music is like.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
So unique.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
It's I remember like the first time I was listening
to his like some of his albums, and I was
just like, this seems like so on brand with him,
And this is like David Lynch doesn't have music that
you're just like you casually throw on, like the pop
music that you find on the radio.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
No, it is an acquired taste, yes, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
And I mean I think it's maybe weird to talk
about the title of our podcast within the pilot episode,
but we've been we've been going back and forth on
potential names for this project, and perhaps it would be
interesting for listeners to hear the thoughts that are going
into it. But my proposal for the name of this podcast,
(52:18):
and it's cool if you don't want to go for it,
but I've already suggested it. Which is the title He's
chosen to name his most recent album, which is The
Big Dream. And I think The Big Dream really beautifully
sums up what he's after, how he feels about life,
Like I think in analyzing that title for that record,
(52:40):
we might get closer and closer to what he's ultimately
after as an artist, regardless of what he's creating.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, yeah, we're still workshopping it, so the Bare Knuckles
podcasting right here. So but yeah, so we would love
to hear from you guys. What do you guys like
about David Lynch? Are you fans of David Lynch? Like
that's a that's the better question to ask here.
Speaker 6 (53:09):
And if not, you know, what are your you know,
what makes you reticent? What what are your questions? What
are the things that you would make you on the fence.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, what's preventing you from thinking this is a great artist? What?
Like are you? Are you anyway? I'm losing it?
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, I uh, I wanted the quick story. I'll share
real quick. I remember the first time I watched, uh,
of the first times I had watched he raised her head.
My wife happened to be in the room with the
big reveal of the baby and like took one look
at the screen, took one look at me. I just
(53:59):
walked off, and she was like, this is just weird
and so like the the more that I kept watching
David Lynch, she like understands it. It's like a a
main stay in our home now.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
So yeah, I mean cool.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
That's great. And considering, you know, our eraser Head and
maybe this should be discussed in the eraser Head episode.
Could you could call this pilot episode teasing every episode
we're going to So my teas for the eraser Head
episode would be, you know, given that I feel like
David Lynch is about the big dream, the big fever dream.
(54:38):
What the dream says about our anxieties and our deep
seated subconscious and our our you know, our fears. I
think at that moment in time. I believe Lynch had
just had a kid. I think that Lynch was sort
of suffering from the anxieties that you're suffering from at
your stage in life. I think you were probably roughly
(54:59):
the same as Lynch was when he made a racer Head.
So I think your response was perfect, and that you're at,
you know, being a glomming onto the film for that
reason is completely organic to it.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I I've been reading, Uh, he was he had just
had Jennifer. I I've also been reading Lynch on Lynch
and I've gotten to the part where he's talking about
Eraserhead now taking my time with it, but like also
the fact that like he's also talked about it in
like interviews about like where he was at the time,
(55:38):
and he the documentary I think it's called The Art
Life by David by David Lynch.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
Which is a Criterion as well.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, it's uh, it's a really really awesome a little
documentary about like his like art art him as an artist,
like a like a painter.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
I need some David Lynch painting someone just.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
As a painter. I mean, yes, you get to you
get to see that in effect, but I would say
that the title the Art Life is just his belief
that you cannot be a part time artist. To live
as an artist is to be around the clock, and
even if that means sitting in daydreaming. You know, he
talked his title room to Dream essentially refers to an
(56:24):
artist needs time to day dream. He needs, like ours
on end to do nothing. So Lynch lives the art
life like that's just his his what he's all.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
About, you know, Yeah, no, You're You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Like I feel like that documentary is like it's, for one,
it's beautifully done, but like it also gives like such
an intimate insight into his artists that like you don't
get very often, especially the fact that like for him, yeah,
we've talked about like, uh, we've talked a teaser about
(56:57):
like the physical media collection that he's done over the years,
and I don't think I don't think any of my
blu rays like have like any like like director commentaries
on there. He's like probably the one of the only
directors I've ever come into contact with that like doesn't
do that, and that fact should.
Speaker 3 (57:16):
Take a YouTube compilation of all interviewers who tried to
pick at him for an answer, and his responses are always,
you know, priceless. He's he's a master at at evading
the evading the direct questions.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Yeah, I I I agree.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
So, uh, this journey, we're kicking it off with Ronnie
Rockett Lynch's famous unproduced script. As Zach teased, But where
can people follow you online?
Speaker 3 (57:53):
Oh gosh, they can't really, which isn't great for this
podcast purposes. But I'm not the most social media fellow, frankly.
But you can watch my film home Wrecker on shutter
if you want. It's it's very informed by more so
(58:13):
John Waters than David Lynch. But as we all maybe know,
there's a wonderful photo of Lynch and John Waters meeting
at Big Boy, which was Lynch's office in the eighties.
So they're obviously friends, you know, colleagues, similar conspirators.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
Yeah, to some extent.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't have an online phone.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
Yeah, it's it's fine, dude, it's fine. I just we
put it out here because we believe in community. But yeah,
so you guys can follow my cinema journey over a letterbox.
It's at Captain Nostalgia. We'll also have a separate podcast
Speed where you guys can follow all new episodes of
this podcast, but you guys can follow are there?
Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Uh. You guys can follow our parent company, Victims and Villains.
We're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, and of course
wherever you guys get your podcasts from. You guys can
also go to Victims and Villains dot net, where you
guys can find more podcasts like this, and most importantly,
our Mental health Resource Library
We're victims and villains.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
My name is Josh and this past week on January fifteenth,
the world of both cinema and the world at large
was very sad to hear about the of David Lynch,
in my opinion, is the greatest filmmaker of all time
and definitely my favorite. I love this guy's work, ranging
from his crazy early shorts like The Alphabets and Eraserhead
(00:27):
as a feature films all the way up into his
insane last two projects of Twin Peaks, The Return and
Inland Empire. A couple of years ago, in the late
winter of twenty twenty three, I started the idea of
wanting to do a David Lynch podcast that would be
done in seasons that would span everything that his career touched,
(00:49):
including his feature films, short films, music, books, artistry, and more.
And we set out to do a test pilot for that,
which which at the time though we recorded it was
not actually called anything. We called it the Untitled David
Lynch Podcast, and eventually the name arrived on The Big
(01:09):
Dream Podcast, which is very thematic of a lot of
Lynch's work, but also at the same time it is
a reference to his twenty thirteen album of the same name.
Joe would have also explored unproduced David Lynch content as well,
which in this original pilot episode we were Ryan attempting
to do Ronnie Rockett, which, if you know anything about Lynch,
(01:33):
is his most ambitious project and his passion project that
he had all the way from the time of Elephant
Man in nineteen eighty until the President that never came
to fruition, and that was always kind of the passion project,
the one project he really wanted to get off the ground.
I would argue it's also one of his most ambitious
But in this pilots we do touch on that, and
(01:54):
we were going to do a full blown episode on it. It
was actually going to be our first episode. This I
would consider it to be our episode zero. This is
us just kind of essentially gushing about why we love
Lynch as a filmmaker, and I was fortunate enough to
potentially start this show with a filmmaker as well, who
I got introduced to through Matt Kelly of Friends over
(02:17):
at Horror.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Movie podcast Fantastic Podcast. Can you ever check that out?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Please go give them a listen. They're incredible and incredible
horror podcast, but ultimately this pilot was shot and recorded
with Zach Rain. Now, if you guys don't know who
Zach Raine is, he is the writer, director, and editor
on the independent horror comedy Home Record, which you guys
can currently stream on Prime or any and most major
(02:43):
VOD services. The thing that losing Lynch was not a
huge devastation is a really a bit of a massive understatement.
And I haven't thought about this podcast in years. We
tried for almost a year to get this thing off
the ground, and timing and scheduling just kind of kept
butting heads. So if you guys would like to hear
(03:04):
more of the Big Dream podcast, let us know.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I did consider doing a.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
MAXI series on this, which would cover all of the
Lynch's actual feature films, not necessarily go as in depth
as originally im preaching, but going through everything from Erase
Our Head all the way up until the Inland Empire
in two thousand and six. So if you guys are
interested in more Lynch content, let us know. But without
further ado, we're gonna take a quick commercial break. When
(03:34):
we come back, Ladies and gentlemen, present to you guys,
the unaired pilot of the Big Dream Podcast I hope
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(03:56):
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(04:18):
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Are currently listening or streaming this.
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Speaker 1 (05:24):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This is the test pilot for a untitled David Lynch
podcast coming in Strong Projectives Villains Podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Network in five four three two one.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, before we get into David Lynch, let's let's get
to know one another, because I mean, this is also
learning experience for us because we met thanks to our
mutual friend Matthew Kelly from Horror Nights in.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Podcasts, a great guy. Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Let's just kind of like get to know one another,
like first and kind of like.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
How we who we are as people?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And then like what really draws us into like the
crazy world of David Lynch.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Cool sounds good. My name is Zach Zach Gaine. Pleasure
to be here. I am a filmmaker and I wrote
about film as well for screen anarchy dot com. And
I know Matthew because he interviewed me about a film
I made in twenty twenty, my movie Home Record came out,
(06:40):
which is a little Lynchian for sure. And Matthew had
a podcast or has a podcast about pilots, and of
course when he asked me what I would like to discuss,
I chose my all time favorite show, Twin Peaks, and
we just scussed Northwest Passengers the pilot.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Wow, that's crazy, I wanted to tell me. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So, uh, those of you guys that have been listening
to uh, some of the podcasts that we produce here
know me. My name is Josh I go by Captain Nostalgia.
But I've been podcasting for about at this point, about
six or seven years. I've done the comic thing with
victims and villains. I've done the horror with abisca thing.
(07:33):
I've done Nicholas Cage with That's my praise and.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, it just it. This is this is.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I met Matthew while covering Creature Future, which is a
horror convention slash film festival in Gettysburg a few years ago,
and we talked about mental health and and like horror
kind of like the connections, and that's that's really the
underlining like theme of like what the content that I
(08:02):
produced as a creator is that everything has a mental
health angle to it. And coming in also with being
the director and the programmer for the film festival, which
is the first film festival, it's kind to be hor
centric mental health focused. Mental health is something that really
means a lot to me, and I actually like came
(08:26):
into being a Lynchian at a complete accident.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I feel like I, like.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
As a cinophile, like I'd seen like a racer head,
and so I was like I'd seen the first season
of Twin Peaks, but like.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I feel like I hadn't like didn't merely make.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
An impression, because I feel like when you watch a
racer head, just like on a whim, you're like, that
was a weird experience, and it's like you're not quite
sure if you like it. You're not quite sure if
you hate it. And I think it was like the
second some of the seconds into Twin Peaks that I
was like, I think I need to jump a little
(09:04):
bit more into this guy's filmography.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
That's pretty funny considering that that was a lot of
people's exit point for Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Uh I think the first half it's like really controversial
because like I got into The X Files before I
got into Twin Peaks, and I love to Covey as
an actor, so like getting to see him in a
role that's vastly different than.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Like Fox Moulder was really interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Like and the fact that like his role as Denise
is like leaps and bounds ahead of its time, and
just really what they were able to do with him
in uh In in the return, I was like, dang, Like,
don't get me wrong, Like, I definitely think that the
back half of Twin Peaks at second season is like MS,
(10:07):
I definitely understand why people hate it.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I wasn't expressing a personal opinion when I said that,
I'm with you. I think season two, well, yeah, it
jumps the rails here here and there. I think there's
a lot of really interesting stuff going on, and perhaps
my favorite image of the whole show is Nadine Hurley
as a jacked up cheerleader. So I have second season
I think for that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, I'm actually rewatching it right now for the third time,
and I just got to that part where she wakes
up the come up and like they go to the
double R and her and Ed get the milkshakes and
she like just clean, like oh no, not again. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Or when she's auditioning to be a cheerleader and she
she chucks the other person in here.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Uh. The second season, I think, like, like in like
the back half definitely has its like golden moments. And
I probably have like listened to like way too many
podcast interviews and like podcast deep dives on like the
relationship between it's like CBS and or ABC whoever like
(11:23):
was viewing the the it at the time, and like
how they like pushed for we need.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
The big reveal. Yeah, we'll get to twin peaks eventually.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah. So, to to tell you my first introduction to Lynch,
when I was in high school, me and two of
my other movie nerd friends had a Monday night movie
club where we would each choose a film that the
others hadn't seen. So since this was I was in
grade nine, so there was still plenty I hadn't seen yet,
(11:59):
but I really wanted to watch Blue Velvet, so I
brought Blue Velvet to the team. It was not received
well by the others. I wouldn't say I loved it,
but I was certainly fascinated. This would have been in
like late nineteen ninety nine, early two thousand, because in
(12:22):
two thousand and one I live in Toronto, So when
the Toronto Film Festival happens in September, I scooped up
tickets for Muholland Drive. And I was at the Toronto
premiere of Mulholland Drive back and that would be the
night that I absolutely fell in love with Lynch. He
was there to introduce the film, which wasn't that exciting
(12:46):
for me because I hadn't seen the movie yet, and yeah,
the first you know, ninety minutes of Muholland Drive are
what they are, and I was just totally in it,
loving it. And then there's the dramatic turn that we
all know, and just on the subway home, me and
my friend were just scratching our heads. But whereas he
(13:11):
just completely rejected the abstraction of the third act and
disliked it as a result, I was just completely infatuated
and could not wait for the film's release date, which
was in October. And when it came out in October,
I was there opening weekend to see the second time,
and I just kept going back. And for that reason,
(13:32):
I think m'hull and Drive might have to be my
favorite David Lynch film.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Oh all right, I uh I don't my day.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
My favorite like David Lynch movie is definitely Lost Highway Cool.
So David Lynch kind of became like this like weird
mental health escape for me. And I know that sounds
like really weird to.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Say that to me.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Uh yeah, but you say that to like like the
person who's like doesn't like David Lynching, You're like, why wow?
And like so the first year that we did Horrific Hope,
it was putting on a film festival and a massive
event like this was. It was a really large undertaking
(14:22):
that I kind of underestimated, and I remember like just
being like really burnt out on like promotional stuff and
just kind of like really flying by the seat of
my pants, and I jumped back into on a whim.
I was like, I really want to revisit a raser head.
(14:44):
So I rewatched it and there was something that flicked
for me. The second time. I am like really notorious
for like being open about the fact that I as
a as a husband and as a man, like I
don't want to be a father, and I just I
(15:06):
really connected with like Henry's like fear of like being
a parent and like having control over like another life.
And the way that like Lynch put that in this
like really bizarre, it's surrealistic nightmare just like clicked for me.
And I remember like jumping back into that. And I
(15:30):
went out and like I had boughten b Loue, Velvet
Mahal and Drive. I had like almost every David Lynch
movie physically, and I just jumped into it. I went
eraser Head, I jumped into The Elephant Man, and I
was surprised by like how beautiful the Elephant Man was,
(15:53):
and just went in and like I was watching all
of his like feature films on line with like Quinn Peaks.
And then I recently at my day job, had gotten
like a promotion that like put me behind a computer
for eight hours a day. So I had dual monitors
that I would be doing my work on one computer
(16:16):
and I had a YouTube playlist of David Lynch shorts
on the other. And I was just like efatuated, and
I had watched at this point, I'd watched like it's
about everything that he had produced in with the exception
of like maybe like a short an Eraserhead documentary that
(16:39):
he did in two thousand and one, and then.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He did it's called Eraserhead Stories and.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Supplement.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yes, it is a supplement for the Criterion release, so
I haven't watched it yet, but.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
And then there's a there's a French film that he
had like shot a short for. I've seen the short,
but I haven't seen like the actual movie, so I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Count that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, I can't wait till the time comes to discuss
The Elephant Man, because that's not a film I particularly
enjoyed discussing for the last ten years. I probably saw
it when you saw it kind of early on the
Lynch Journey, and then you know, I thought it was
(17:32):
an excellent film, you know, an Academy Award winner, but
I didn't feel I didn't recognize it as belonging in
the Lynch over whatever as much as the others. So
it wasn't until it had its four K re release
and it actually opened in theaters in Japan during the pandemic,
(17:56):
which is where I spent the pandemic, so I got
to see it in theater in four K and it
was like watching it for the first time. But perhaps
we should talk about The Elephant Man when we talk
about the Elephant.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, The Elephant Man and The Straight Story are two
really interesting films to talk about in Lynch's filmography because
from a narrative standpoint, they feel completely different than something
like Blue Velvet, wind Peaks, Lost Highway, and they feel
(18:34):
very much like linear. They feel very much like really straightforward.
I would probably say they're probably the most comprehensive, comprehensible
David Lynch movies. But wind Print, which is a because
a boutique label out of Australia, did a release for
(18:57):
The Straight Story and one of their special features on
that disc is like talking about how you look at
this like stretch of like David Lynch's career where he's
making like fire Walk with Me, Lost Highway, the Straight
Story in mahaland Drive, and how like to the average
(19:20):
viewer the Straight Story might seem like the odd man out,
but he like there's a special feature that like breaks
it down and like you actually get to see and
like understand how it is a hold up right next
to other films in his his filmography, and I think that,
(19:43):
like The Elephant Man Is a Fast is another fascinating
one because again, it doesn't necessarily feel like a Lynchian
film on the surface, but once you kind of like
get into it and you break it down, then it's like, Okay,
this definitely does feel like a Lynch film.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Here's a piece of trivia off the top of your head,
can you tell me what The Straight Story and Elephant
Man have in common? Like, very very clearly have in common.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
They're both biopics that kind of take a just a
really bizarre like story and bring it to light.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That is a well, that's absolutely true. But I would
say the reason for that is because both of them
are films not written by Lynch. That's what they have
in common and one way they stand out from this filmography.
So what you know, So you're taking a script that
is a more typical film than any Lynch film, of course,
(20:46):
and then you give it to this director, and so
all of the Lynchisms are going to come from the telling,
you know, rather than the bones of the story.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's fascinating to me because like I know that he
hadn't there are there are obviously movies that he hasn't
written that he's directed, but then there are also uh
projects that he's co written, like Barry Giffert with wild
Heart and Lost.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
In a Way and Twin Peaks and Twin Peaks of course.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, I can't mary Sweeney his director, I'm sorry,
his his editor sometimes producer, or maybe I'm confusing two people,
but I believe Mary Sweeney wanted to make The Straight Story.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I believe she possibly discovered the script and maybe even
pushed it on him, and he was resistant. But then
I think he got it. He got why she thought
he should be the one to tell the story, and uh,
and I I believe that I know why he's the
one to tell tell the story as well, because I
(22:00):
would say, again, maybe this should be an entire episode
about the Straight Story, but like all of the heartwarming
small town stuff that he kind of brings to Blue
Velvet and Twin Peaks, like all of the sweet scenes,
to me, it's like giving those moments an entire film.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's uh. I was.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I was floored the first time I saw The Straight
Story because I had just gotten off like watching like
Blue Velvet and Fire a Walk with Me, so like
I did a triple feature, and then you get to
this straight story and you're just like, I'm not crying,
You're crying because it is this like my god. Yeah,
(22:49):
and I actually just recently watched Paris Texas, which is
those you guys that don't know. Paris Texas was a
nineteen eighty four drama starring Stanton And it's kind of
like when you have that reveal at the end of
the straight story that he's the he's Alvin's brother, it's
(23:10):
kind of like this like inverse of like he was
the brother going to find his brother in Paris, Texas.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, man, Dave David Lynch
has a wild career, and I think over the course
of this podcast, you know, hopefully we'll touch on probably
not only his career as a director, writer, showrunner, television creator,
but also the fact that like he's an accomplished painter,
(23:51):
he is an accomplished animator, musician. I mean, the dude
like and like also a world renowned speaker on meditation. Like,
the dude is just super talented and probably easily one
of the most fascinating careers I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I think if I were to if I were to
attempt to, you know, find find a base with which
to analyze like every single Lynch film, you know, I might,
I might go straight to his Okay, So I've had
the fortune of seeing David Lynch lecture on meditation a
(24:36):
handful of times, a small handful of times, because he
used to he used to throw these There were these
one off events happenings, the David Lynch Festival of Disruption,
and he did a lot of philosophizing in those and
you know, you can go on YouTube and hear everything
he has to say about transcendental meditation. But he does
(24:56):
a lot of talk about something he refers to as
the unified field. He has this graph that he's he's
drawn up many times. A lot of his book Catching
the Big Fish is also devoted to this, you know,
and it boils down to an essence. He his analogy
is he's a fisherman, and by meditating he sort of
(25:17):
transcends into this field of pure creativity in the subconscious.
And as of course we discuss his films are are
rooted in the subconscious. I would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, yeah, I would actually.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, I mean, certainly when he gets into what I've
been referring to as his Inland trilogy. I believe that Lost,
Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, and Inland Empire make up what
I've been calling his Inland trilogy, which is like into
the mind, these deep abstract dives into the brain, essentially
(26:01):
into the subconscious. You know. Perhaps Mulholland Drive is the
most clear cut illustration of that, because I feel that
one is more literally a dream than the others, more
literally a psychological trip than the others. But yeah, so
(26:21):
that's why I feel that his philosophies about transcendental meditation
are are so relevant to where he's coming from as
an artist. And yeah, I think you're write money that
mental health is what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
He He also like did a documentary back in twenty well,
probably going to butcher the name. I think it's something
along the lines of meditation piece creativity, if I remember correctly.
But it's just a literally he basically like videotaped his
(26:59):
like lecture and then like he's together a narrative, and
meditation is something that for me, like is something that
like I still struggle with because I grew up in
a fairly conservative Christian household, still practicing Christian, and like
(27:20):
there are obviously those times where like you know, you
should like do like meditation or yoga, because like there's
like rich in philosophies out there that like talk about
like how demonic it is. And meditation has been something
that like my wife and I have glowly started to
(27:42):
practice over the last three or four years. And I
remember like hearing him lecture on transcendental meditation and just
like being blown away and like maybe maybe I've had
this like wrong this entire time. And he's done like
other interviews, he did a he did a podcast with
(28:05):
Russell Brand of all people about meditation, and just hearing
him like speak on it and just his like passion
and just how clear his own mental health is. Embodying
some of those practices has definitely, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Improved my own mental health.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And that's also part of the reason that I really
respect him as an entertainer, because he's not just this
like weird, weird guy that creates these like surrealist nightmare
movies or short films or however you've been introduced to him.
But he's a director. He's an artist that is so
much deeper and much more profound than that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, and not only that, he's an artist who, as
you know, depicts violence, really really ugly violence, And a
lot of filmmakers who do that get criticized for for
doing that, for portraying violence and perhaps delighting in it
as a common accusation. But with Lynch, anyone who's taken
(29:10):
the deep dive knows that he's really deliberate in his
usage of violence, and he does it to make a
profound point. And the points that he makes we'll be
discussing throughout the season.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I think I think like Wild at Heart and like
Lost Highway or like two capital examples of how he
uses violence and uses it not necessarily just to be
violent for violent's sake, but like, like you said, like
has a purpose in that insight. Yeah, And I also
(29:44):
think it's like really interesting and like starting off with
a famous project like Ronnie Rocket, we also get to
see how he also uses something like sex in his
films as well. And I I don't think I've ever
read a horny or script.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I'm excited.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I I'm I'm not sure if I should reveal that
we haven't done the Ronnie Rocket bit yet.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Sorry, sorry to make you up to edit this portion possible.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's fine, It's fine, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I can't wait to reread it because it's not fresh
in my mind. But to jump back in, you know,
speaking of obscure David Lynch projects that we're looking forward
to tackling this project, I think the one that I'm
looking forward to revisiting the most would be his short
lived TV series on the Air.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
On the Air Man What a That and Hotel Room
were like two really really like wild shows. I'm like,
I'm kind of surprised that like both of them didn't
like actually has like a life past what they have,
and it really really kind of makes me sad.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, I can't say I'm terribly surprised. What I wouldn't
give for more on the air his.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Uh yeah, his relationship with television is really something that
is interesting to me because he he like creates this
like phenomenon with twin peaks, and you just see him
like trying to like continuously like recapture that with on
the air with Hotel Room. Mohaland Drive was originally supposed
(31:34):
to be a Ron Howard and Brian Grazer produced pilot
I don't know if you've seen Yeah, I don't know
if you've seen that.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
It's hs like long before the criterion down.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, it's uh, the pilot for it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's it's still really similar, but it's like it's still
like vastly different. And I would have loved to see,
like you could definitely see like the hallmarks of like
how they would have like developed the characters over like
a few episodes.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I mean, it's actually so cool because you get an
insight into number one, what he was doing with Twin Peaks,
which is like setting up this beautiful question. You know,
obviously with Twin Peaks, the whole like who killed Laura
Palmer is like this golden goose, and once you saw
(32:31):
the murder, that's like killing the golden goose. Lynch famous instead,
And with Mulholland Drive, you see what it looks like
when Lynch is making a pilot with no ending where
he's just crafting a question, and the fact that he
was able to revisit the project a year later and
come up with an answer, so to speak, is just
(32:55):
so exciting to me.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
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(33:22):
mental health, suicide.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And depression, and to get exclusive.
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Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I watched it a couple of weeks ago for the
first time and remembered, Yeah, like, I remember the way that.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
A couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
No, I watched the pilot version because I hadn't seen
the pilot version. I was really curious, and I remember,
like the way that it ends, and like just my
jaw dropping and being like, man like, I'm both like
I feel like I walked away with like the pilot,
having these like mixed emotions where I'm like, I'm really
(34:32):
glad that like investors came and were like, we want
to see how this story ends. Make it a movie,
and he got to like redo portion like redo, like
give a proper ending. But I'm also like, man like,
I would have loved to see this been like a
mini series. Yeah, yeah, like like a kin to like
(34:52):
the first season a twin peaks, like it doesn't have
to be long.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That's one of the greatest Would you rather I've as
a cinema lover that I've ever heard, would you rather
see have the movie David, Sorry, have the film will
Holland Drive, which is my favorite film by my favorite filmmaker.
Or would I rather have w Holland Drive exist as
this hypothetical three season TV show where I could have
(35:18):
had thirty hours of it? Man, I don't know what
I would prefer, because, like I said, the film actually
is my favorite, so maybe if that weren't the case,
I would easily choose the show. But since I considered
such a perfect package. I don't want to mess with that.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well, so, like where I'm at, like I would have
I think that in two Thou in like nineteen ninety
nine when they originally shot this, I think that it
doesn't necessarily work the way that prestigious like television works nowadays.
Like we're in this like golden age of like the
streaming where you have like Netflix, HBO, Amazon, and.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
We got to see what that looks like. Not to
jump ahead, but like we get to eventually we would
get to see what it looks like with David Lynch
having control of the modern landscape of television landscape.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, I'm still convinced that, Like for as much as
I love like Lost My Way Twin Peaks, the Return
is like his magnum opus, Like that's like the best
thing he's done.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
I think so too. It's the fact that mohand Drives
a film. I get to say it's my favorite film, yeah,
only because the Return is not a film.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Sure, yeah, yeah, But like I think it would have
been like interesting to be like take something like mahaland
Drive and make it to be like this like eight
episode like prestigious television and just let Lynch have it
and that's kind of one of the things that like
make me really sad that like his quote unquote like
(36:50):
cinematic career has like been on hiatus since two.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Thousand and six with Inland Empire.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
But it hasn't. I mean, of course it has, but
return couldn't, as we both agreed, could not be more satisfying.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yes, but like there have been these like and of
course he's he's made, you know, the short film like
what did Jack Do?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
He's made like other short films.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
He's he's written books, he's done music, But I like
there have been like whispers of this like Netflix special
or like ser like mini series that he was going
to do with Naomi Watts and Laura Dern and now
it's kind of just like dead in the water. And
(37:35):
I'm like, man like David Lynch proved with their return
that he is like a filmmaker that is like grimed
the golden age that we now.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Have with the question though is I hate the freakin'
question is like how did it do? How did Showtime?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Do?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I know that even if they didn't profit, it would
have been worth it for Showtime because they got a
zillion subscribers just for for that, so it would have
been worth it. And I don't know how this stuff
is tabulated, but I don't know if David Lynch is
a profitable creator.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
That's and that's that's the thing that I think that
is like really interesting to like talk about and like
do a podcast about him, is because like we're making.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
This show for people like ourselves.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Like I feel like with doing something like horror or
like comics or you know, any other type of podcast,
you can really like feel to like such a vast audience,
but when you are talking about a filmmaker like Lynch,
it is a very narrow audience. And I think that, like, yeah,
(38:52):
I think that like for him is like as a
as a director and as a creator, I think that,
like I wouldn't necessarily say that he's profitable, but I
definitely think that there is like a demand for him.
But you know, Showtime like they have like the exclusive rights,
(39:13):
Like if you want any any Twin Peaks merchandise whatsoever,
Showtime is the only place you can get.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Is that right? So I had the rare release of
the return because the supplements were loaded.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yes they were.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I have the complete series and I love how like
every single disc is just loaded with like rape bonus features, which.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Is really funny because, as I mentioned earlier in the episode,
I've been die hard since the early years of high school.
So in Grade twelve, I did a presentation on the
Hall and Drive. So I brought you know, I had
a TV in the class, and I brought in my
DVD and Lynch used to be somebody who he I
(40:01):
don't know if you know this, but Mulholland Drive didn't
even have chapter selection. Not only were there no bonuses,
he refused to let people go to their favorite scene.
He was trying to make it so the only way
the film could be watched is from beginning to end.
So for the purposes of a kid trying to show
a scene on a DVD for a presentation, this was
(40:21):
like incredibly inconvenient. So like now that the return is
here and or this wave of criterion with all these
supplements like this is so the opposite end of the
coin to the to the Lynch DVDs we used to get,
which were bare bones nothing. You do the work, I'm
not giving you anything.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, from what I've read, like when Universal originally released
the DVD of Mall and Drive, you got like, uh,
you got like a little like yeah, you got like
the the clues that came into it, Like it made
it a little bit more cohesive. I guess is the
(41:02):
best word I can say. But you really had to
like be a detective to get it, I guess, And that's.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
A key word though, detective. I think a detective is like,
you know, who is the detective? Is a question twin
Peaks the return asks, and I think that's a not
so dissimilar to the other question. It asks who is
the dreamer? And I feel he's asking that question throughout
many of his films.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, that's one of the things that again, like I
really love about Lynch is that he's probably one of
the only filmmakers that I've ever come into contact with
that I have to like like thoroughly think about what
I just viewed and like what he's trying to say,
because like, for a lot of what I've done over
(41:52):
the years with victims and villains and being a podcaster
that's taking elements of pop culture and leading them to
mental health. It's really it's really easy to do something
like that because you know, you can spin with about
anything to talk about mental health. Whereas David Lynch is like,
(42:14):
nothing is like this, nothing is surface level, like I
think the sir, the most surface level you'll ever get
is something like the straight story. But like he's a
he's such this like multi layered director that you're like,
man like I. I I remember, like the first time
(42:34):
I saw Lost Highway, I had gotten it the the
Keynote Lobo review, which is notoriously it's it's just the movie.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah, probably no chapter selection.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, And I'm really glad that Criteria picked up Lost
Highway last year because they're there. Their version of it
is incredible. But I remember like watching it on a
Sunday morning, and I spent I spent the entire week
thinking about that movie, listening to like the podcast about
(43:11):
that movie, and it rolled around where I was like, man,
like exactly week, I was like, I need to watch
this again. And he's the only filmmaker that I've ever
done that with. And I remember like logging the second
screening of the Lost Highway on letterbox and I just remember,
(43:35):
this movie has haunted me for literally seven days.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
It felt like the ring.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Yeah, Well, I'm glad you brought Lost Highway back up
again because I mentioned at the beginning of the episode
that my first experience was Blue Velvet and then Mulholland Drive.
But you've just reminded me that that's I'm totally wrong.
My actual first experience of David Lynch would be not
nineteen ninety seven because that's when it was theatrical theatrically released,
(44:04):
although it could have been later nineteen ninety seven, but
when it came on video, it was on the pay
per view black box. I don't know if anyone remembers
the old world of pay per view. You could get
something called a black box where you would get pay
per view for free. So Lost Highway was on pay
per view, which is like PVOD nowadays, paid the video
(44:26):
in the old So that's when I saw Lost Highway
for the first time as a thirteen year old with
like watching it as if it was a horror movie,
as you sort of said, but you know what, it
is a horror movie. And this would have been at
my phase, Like I guess, I was something like thirteen
years old in nineteen ninety seven, and this was when
(44:48):
I was discovering horror. This is when I was seeing
like Nightmare on Elm Street for the first time. Hell Racer,
just all the classics. This is when I'm experiencing like
Halloween one, two, three, four, five, And then I watch
Lost Highway and I'm legitimately scared, you know, like I
love horror movies and they're exciting to me. But then
(45:11):
I throw on Lost Highway and I'm genuinely shitting my pants.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, dude, I will die on the hill. That Lost
Highway is one hundred percent a horror movie.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, And like.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
People were like, I don't understand what you can call it.
I'm like, dude, it is. It is one hundred percent
a horror movie. That is probably like one of like
the biggest fears that like I have as a husband
is like, you know, you hear stories all the time
about like the guys being like wrongly accused of like
killing their wives. And I'm like, man, like what happens
(45:46):
if I ended up like in this like Fred Manson
type of situation where I'm just like f like totally screwed,
because like it actually like happened to Robert Blake, who
plays the mystery Man, like you mean five years after
the release, so he this was the so Robert Blake
who plagues the mystery man. He uh, and maybe maybe
(46:10):
we do an episode on this because this is fascinating.
So Robert Blake was in two thousand and four, he
had married this girl, he'd married this like younger girl,
and he had actually been accused of her murder. It's very,
(46:30):
very similarly to Fred's arc throughout the course of the film, and.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
So it must have been inspired in some way. Why
else associate Robert Blake with this project.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Which is is wild because it's it's foreshadowing Robert Blake's
career or like what his life would be like in
like five to six years after the release of that movie.
But you mean it happened, yes, Yeah, it happened in
two thousand or well, like Lost Highway was like Lynch's
(47:03):
take on like the oj trial. So it's it's a weird,
like little circle that it just happens to have.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah, I mean, I guess we'll discuss this when it
comes time to discuss Copper. But like, do you feel
that Bill Pullman was wrongly accused?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Man, that's a loaded question. I don't know if I've
ever actually like sat down and like asked that, Like I.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Think it's an important question.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
It very much is, and I think I'm probably gonna
have to like marinate on it and let it like
stuck with me until we get to Lost Highway, because
like that is definitely something. So this is gonna be
a podcast where we're going to be discussing like Lynch.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Like deep dive on Lynch.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
So I think it was like a good like intro
episode to kind of like talk about it, like tease
a little bit of everything that we have planned for
this first season of the show.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, a pretty solid introduction to who we are, how
we how we feel.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, I think what is the most interesting project?
Speaker 1 (48:27):
You are thinking.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Like it's going to be the most interesting to cover
in this episode.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I could speculate, because I'm sure that I will probably
enjoy every discussion equally honestly, But I guess, as I
already said, some of the projects I'm looking forward to
discussing the most, I guess are on the air because
it's not often thought about, but by myself included, It's
(48:56):
been a while since I've thought about it on the air.
And also Ronnie, I think it's really cool that you're
so keen to explore Ronnie Rockett because most people aren't
too familiar with this unproduced Lynch film, and maybe maybe
our listeners might enjoy also reading the script and preparation
(49:17):
for that episode.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
And yeah, yeah, now Rodney Rockett is a It's really
I'm first off as a sinophile, I am fascinated by
unmade movies. So I've read like several scripts throughout the
years of like movies that could have been, Like I'm
(49:40):
convinced that we got the wrong Justice League movie. Still,
George Miller had a great George Miller had had a
great script.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, so, like Roddy Rockett.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Is definitely something I'm really excited to talk about because
I definitely think it's fascinating that, like you look at
that a script like that, and you read it and
then you see like the landscape of like how this
unmade movie has had like elements cherry picked and like
(50:17):
woven into like other projects that he's been a part of, defferently.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
As a as a filmmaker or as a as an
attempted filmmaker. I've managed to get two films made and released.
But I'm starting to appreciate, you know how I think
gilml I recently saw Giamo del Toro say this, how
every filmmaker has a shelf of unproduced scripts. Probably more
(50:44):
produce unproduced scripts than scripts. And I'm starting to realize
the truth of this as my own stack is starting
to culminate, and I'm starting to understand firsthand how ideas
that belong to a script that's never going to see
the light of the day get repackaged into something that will. So, yeah,
I'm definitely looking forward to rereading Roddie Rocket with Under
(51:05):
the Lens, knowing Lynch's filmography as well as I do,
to see some of these things you're suggesting.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, I'm also like, I'm really like I think it's
gonna be curious and like when we get into like
some of his like other ventures as far as like
music we've like been texting about, Like his music is like.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
So unique.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
It's I remember like the first time I was listening
to his like some of his albums, and I was
just like, this seems like so on brand with him,
And this is like David Lynch doesn't have music that
you're just like you casually throw on, like the pop
music that you find on the radio.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
No, it is an acquired taste, yes, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
And I mean I think it's maybe weird to talk
about the title of our podcast within the pilot episode,
but we've been we've been going back and forth on
potential names for this project, and perhaps it would be
interesting for listeners to hear the thoughts that are going
into it. But my proposal for the name of this podcast,
(52:18):
and it's cool if you don't want to go for it,
but I've already suggested it. Which is the title He's
chosen to name his most recent album, which is The
Big Dream. And I think The Big Dream really beautifully
sums up what he's after, how he feels about life,
Like I think in analyzing that title for that record,
(52:40):
we might get closer and closer to what he's ultimately
after as an artist, regardless of what he's creating.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, yeah, we're still workshopping it, so the Bare Knuckles
podcasting right here. So but yeah, so we would love
to hear from you guys. What do you guys like
about David Lynch? Are you fans of David Lynch? Like
that's a that's the better question to ask here.
Speaker 6 (53:09):
And if not, you know, what are your you know,
what makes you reticent? What what are your questions? What
are the things that you would make you on the fence.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, what's preventing you from thinking this is a great artist? What?
Like are you? Are you anyway? I'm losing it?
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, I uh, I wanted the quick story. I'll share
real quick. I remember the first time I watched, uh,
of the first times I had watched he raised her head.
My wife happened to be in the room with the
big reveal of the baby and like took one look
at the screen, took one look at me. I just
(53:59):
walked off, and she was like, this is just weird
and so like the the more that I kept watching
David Lynch, she like understands it. It's like a a
main stay in our home now.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
So yeah, I mean cool.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
That's great. And considering, you know, our eraser Head and
maybe this should be discussed in the eraser Head episode.
Could you could call this pilot episode teasing every episode
we're going to So my teas for the eraser Head
episode would be, you know, given that I feel like
David Lynch is about the big dream, the big fever dream.
(54:38):
What the dream says about our anxieties and our deep
seated subconscious and our our you know, our fears. I
think at that moment in time. I believe Lynch had
just had a kid. I think that Lynch was sort
of suffering from the anxieties that you're suffering from at
your stage in life. I think you were probably roughly
(54:59):
the same as Lynch was when he made a racer Head.
So I think your response was perfect, and that you're at,
you know, being a glomming onto the film for that
reason is completely organic to it.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I I've been reading, Uh, he was he had just
had Jennifer. I I've also been reading Lynch on Lynch
and I've gotten to the part where he's talking about
Eraserhead now taking my time with it, but like also
the fact that like he's also talked about it in
like interviews about like where he was at the time,
(55:38):
and he the documentary I think it's called The Art
Life by David by David Lynch.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
Which is a Criterion as well.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, it's uh, it's a really really awesome a little
documentary about like his like art art him as an artist,
like a like a painter.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
I need some David Lynch painting someone just.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
As a painter. I mean, yes, you get to you
get to see that in effect, but I would say
that the title the Art Life is just his belief
that you cannot be a part time artist. To live
as an artist is to be around the clock, and
even if that means sitting in daydreaming. You know, he
talked his title room to Dream essentially refers to an
(56:24):
artist needs time to day dream. He needs, like ours
on end to do nothing. So Lynch lives the art
life like that's just his his what he's all.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
About, you know, Yeah, no, You're You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Like I feel like that documentary is like it's, for one,
it's beautifully done, but like it also gives like such
an intimate insight into his artists that like you don't
get very often, especially the fact that like for him, yeah,
we've talked about like, uh, we've talked a teaser about
(56:57):
like the physical media collection that he's done over the years,
and I don't think I don't think any of my
blu rays like have like any like like director commentaries
on there. He's like probably the one of the only
directors I've ever come into contact with that like doesn't
do that, and that fact should.
Speaker 3 (57:16):
Take a YouTube compilation of all interviewers who tried to
pick at him for an answer, and his responses are always,
you know, priceless. He's he's a master at at evading
the evading the direct questions.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Yeah, I I I agree.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
So, uh, this journey, we're kicking it off with Ronnie
Rockett Lynch's famous unproduced script. As Zach teased, But where
can people follow you online?
Speaker 3 (57:53):
Oh gosh, they can't really, which isn't great for this
podcast purposes. But I'm not the most social media fellow, frankly.
But you can watch my film home Wrecker on shutter
if you want. It's it's very informed by more so
(58:13):
John Waters than David Lynch. But as we all maybe know,
there's a wonderful photo of Lynch and John Waters meeting
at Big Boy, which was Lynch's office in the eighties.
So they're obviously friends, you know, colleagues, similar conspirators.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
Yeah, to some extent.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't have an online phone.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
Yeah, it's it's fine, dude, it's fine. I just we
put it out here because we believe in community. But yeah,
so you guys can follow my cinema journey over a letterbox.
It's at Captain Nostalgia. We'll also have a separate podcast
Speed where you guys can follow all new episodes of
this podcast, but you guys can follow are there?
Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Uh. You guys can follow our parent company, Victims and Villains.
We're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, and of course
wherever you guys get your podcasts from. You guys can
also go to Victims and Villains dot net, where you
guys can find more podcasts like this, and most importantly,
our Mental health Resource Library
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