Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Spoilercast

Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
You are listening to Video Games tothe Max. Hello, and welcome to
a special edition of Video Games tothe Max. I am your host,
of course, Sean Garmer with me. This game is so big, Foul
Fantasy Snark. We had to havea huge panel to talk about and give
spoiler thoughts and non spoiler thoughts onFoul Fantasy seven Rebirth. So if you're

(00:36):
if you're listening later on podcasts,this is going to be weird because you're
not seeing the people's faces. Sobut to my immediate right, we got
the Foul Fantasy aficionado guy that wehave on the show a lot. Mister
bad Brackets ready as well. Yeah, a game is so big. You
brought in somebody for each thirty hourchunk of this game. Yeah, exactly.

(00:58):
We had We had to talk aboutlike every part of the game,
so I'd have every every person overthe uh next to him. He reviewed
the game for The Outer Haven.Also a writer Shaiir Andrew Aggress I'm sorry
right below me here is also awriter for The Outer Haven. Siscott.

(01:19):
Hey, y'all, and then wehave the first time on the on the
show, on the podcast. Thankyou so much for being here. Did
the review for Rebirth for Roger Ebert, freelance writer Straordinaiir Josh Broadwell, thanks
for having me. I'm glad tobe here. And also he was he
was on basically doing a preview ofhis thoughts when he was like one of

(01:41):
the few people that had the gamealong with Josh and and Andrew to talk
about it, review it all that. Hayes mads glad to have you on
again, writer for Inverse, andhe did the review and it has its
own ending explained thing on on versusball that you can go. Thanks for
having me again. And everybody's reviewis in the descript as well, so
you know, just in case youwant to check out their work. They

(02:04):
all do tremendous work here. Sowe're we're going to talk about the game
here, we're gonna talk about theending, We're going to talk about all
the stuff. We're not going tostart there. So if you are watching
or listening, we are going todo some non spoiler things at first,
and then as it goes on,I'll give you the big spoiler warning.
If you want to get out,you have that that window to leave.

(02:28):
After that, you're also see we'realready getting that, Yeah, exactly it
is. Now. So all right, guys, let's start with I guess
general thoughts looking at the game asa whole. You don't have to give
you like a mini review or whatever. But Randy, we've talked about it

(02:53):
a lot, but I kind ofhaven't really had you on to talk about
it really, Like when you're doneplaying this game, it's a big fall
Fantasy fan and all that stuff.Where is this for you? Like,
what did you feel when you weredone with I'll tell you about three years
when I've finally fully done with allthe other side stuff of the game.
No, it's fantastic. I thinka lot of the reviews that I've read

(03:16):
or seen, I think they sayit extremely well. I can't believe this
game actually exists. Like Remake wassomething that was spectacular a few years ago
where they took a small section ofseven and they ballooned it out to a
thirty or forty hour game. Andthis took a larger section and just grew
everything out. The amount of timesyou go back and think of Foul Fantasy

(03:37):
seven like the original game, whereit's like, oh, I remember this
part, and then you go backand play it and it's two screens.
That was it, but we rememberit. These creators go, Okay,
we'll make it a big giant areanow for it, and we'll expand things
out, and they expand on charactersand just the amount of love that has
been put into this game has beenabsolutely phenomenal. And I know so Sean

(04:00):
and I have talked about a lot. The pacing of this game is just
perfect for somebody like me. Theyjust had to know what happened at the
end because I didn't want it spoiled. So I just was like, I
can't not be on the internet forthis long. I have to know.
I could speed run through the lastfew chapters and then go back and clean
up everything else. It wasn't lockedfor me at that point. But if
you want to do everything else,like a Maximilian dude of course did and

(04:24):
was like one hundred and thirty hoursin before you finally finish this first game
through, you can you could dothat too. There's just so much to
this game. It's just the simplestway to put it, a little bit
of everything for everyone. All themini games are not going to hit for
everyone, but you don't have todo them. But there were so many
more that hit that didn't to me, and good luck to any other game

(04:46):
out there for Game of the Year. Yeah, they did set a tall
task for this one, and wealready had big games come out before then,
too, so interesting to already lookat this year. How crazy it
is, Hayes. I mean,you had it during the review period,
so I guess it's different. Likeyou're probably thinking so many moments you're like,

(05:09):
man, I can't wait till peoplesee this and experience It's like now
that you're done with and now you'veseen all of it, you know,
if people get to play the game, like, well, what is your
thought? And you know I've seenyou already playing Dragons Domatu doing all that
stuff. Where does this sit foryou? I guess I think, you
know, as I've had time toreflect on it, I still personally love

(05:29):
it as much as I did whenI wrote that review. But I think
what's been most interesting for me isto see a lot of There's been so
many different interpretation of things that happenin this game, and people have so
many different thoughts and so many differentopinions on it, And to me,
that's that's the kind of games thatI love the most is when we have
this wide breadth of experiences that peoplehave, and I think that speaks to

(05:54):
just how rich this game is ingeneral. Even if whether the things it
does works for you or whether theydon't, everyone has something to say about
it. I think that's that's fantastic. I love that a weeks later,
we're still having discussions about it,so that's kind of that's kind of my
favorite part. I still I havemy feelings on the ending have only gotten

(06:14):
stronger as I've sat on it forweeks. I like it, and I
like it even more than I didwhen I played it, and I think
it's just going to be interesting toreflect on this while we wait for the
third game. Yeah, that's goingto be interesting when we get to talk
about the third game, how longit will take and how long we got
to wait. But at least itgave us a lot to think about on

(06:35):
that front. Josh, same thingfor you. What are you? What
were your thoughts on the game whenyou got done with it? Well,
there are a lot of them,but I think the dominant one was just
I was I was really impressed howthey took what to me was like the
most barren stretch of Final Fantasy sevenand turned it into something so thematically rich

(07:00):
that they deepened all the character relationships. They actually their personalities more in ways
that honestly, after remake, Ididn't expect them to because I like remake,
but I think the characters really comeinto themselves more in Rebirth. That
was kind of That was the thingthat really stuck out for me, because
honestly, I don't actually like theoriginal Final Fantasy seven. I only played

(07:21):
it for the first time a coupleof years ago. I like it especially,
and as the part that I likedthe least was the part that Rebirth
covered, So I was kind ofhesitant going into thinking should I actually you
know what am I going to think? So? But yeah, I was
surprised. I liked it a lot, a lot more than I expected,
and I think even with some ofthe areas that to me felt a little

(07:41):
stretched, I think it's probably oneof the best interpretations of the game that
Square Nix has done ever since itcame out, you know, all the
different takes on it, variations orwhatever. Yeah, I think the best
thing that could have happened to it, and it's funny. I think I'm
the anti Josh here because I playedRemake and I really liked it, and
then I played seven for the firsttime right after Remake came out, and

(08:05):
I loved it, and my favoriteparts of the game were the mid Garzolmer
Or however they changed a little bit, the june On Parade, the Gold
Saucer, the Forgotten City, sopretty much every everything that this one covered.
So for me, I went inwith really high expectations of Rebirth because
it's actually for me, and Italked to Josh a little bit about this

(08:28):
before. My favorite stretch of thegame, interestingly, because I like a
good a good Ring quest like agood I'm a big fan of Fellowship of
the Ring, so I like thatjourney across the planet seeing different locales.
So to see Rebirth realize these placesthat I had such fond well, I
guess I'm such fun with the firsttime around. I feel like it really

(08:48):
met my expectations, if not surpassedthem. Yeah, that's that's a little
bit how I fell too. Itwas just this was way better than I
thought it was coming in. Iwas I was a bit worried, just
because you know, when you startblowing something up. That's already one section
of a game that doesn't always turnout, especially with the way some A

(09:09):
lot of times remake felt like,Man, we're really stretching this here,
and they did a great job ofnot ever making you feel like that.
But I think we'll get into thelike the big reasons why when we talk
about more of it, Scott,what did you think about reverse? So
when they had like interviews and stufftalking about like where it was supposed to

(09:31):
take place in original Final Fantasy seven, I was kind of worried for one
section, being that remake was likea forty hour experience that was based off
of like the first four hours ofthe game, and four hours is if
you did everything in Midguar, likeyou could speed run Midguard like an hour
and you could be get out ofthere. So they're taking like the next
like twenty ish hours after Midguar andturning that into like a sixty to eighty

(09:56):
hour experience. I was just like, oh no, yeah, but it's
all it's like everything that I didn'tlike about remakes, and like the Patty
and how things were like forced on. You're either done it better or completely
just erase completely. So I'm reallyenjoyed everything that Rebirth did for the Final

(10:16):
Fantasy like remake trilogy. I hopethat the third game is, if not
as good, but as is better. I don't know if they can actually
top it, but if they do, I'll be very impressed. Yeah,
it's good they they set a bigbar for themselves as far as like now,
we have a massive expectations for thisthird game. I'm sure that they

(10:37):
probably feel that too. If anybodywatched that thing that they did with Umatsu
and Nomura celebrate talk about more aboutthe music, but no Mora sounds like
he's exhausted. Yeah, so Ican't imagine what he's gonna feel like for
the next three years, four yearsdoing this thing, Josh. A lot

(11:00):
was made of the open world theway it is, right, A lot
of uvsaft stuff in here, andthen you have side quests and other stuff,
Like you have a bunch of openworlds in Pomp Fantasy, but this
is kind of a different version ofan open world they've ever done in the
other foun fantas against Like, whatdid you think going through this when you
didn't have people like it's easier forus, right, Randy Scott, that

(11:26):
we had guides, so when somethinggot frustrating, Oh, I'll just watch
this YouTube video. You guys didn'thave that. You Hayes and Andrew,
y'all didn't have that. Like,how did you feel going through this?
Did you feel any differently than thatall the people do or do you feel
the same thing? So, man, this is this is annoying or not?
It fluctuated a lot. I startedtrying to do everything in the grasslands
and that it got a little overwhelming, and so I stopped. Then when

(11:48):
I got to judon it kind ofI don't even know why. I guess
just because maybe the layout of theland was more interesting. But I started
doing everything again. And then Ialso stopped activating the towers so all the
icons would go away, because thatto me, like I was actually annoyed
when there was like a thing ofit was like it wasn't Google Intel,
but it might as well have been. But it pointed out where the first

(12:09):
Google house was or Google Store,and I was like, ah, man,
you know, that looks really cool. I would have loved to have
just stumbled on that, and yethere it was telling me, you know,
Google's ahead, and so yeah,after that point and I just tried
to find things on my own,didn't really pay much attention to the icons.
I enjoyed the open a little lotmore. I'm ify on open worlds

(12:31):
anyways. I think that a lottoo big for the sake of being big,
and I get bored easy. ButI also think Rebirth does a really
good job adding emotional significance to alot of what you're doing in the open
world, to where I think Ithink I remember I said this in my
review or not, but so ifI'm repeating myself, I apologize. But

(12:54):
it's like you're kind of when you'refinding these small versions of the life Spring
or whatever, it's almost like there'sa little active version there, like you're
you're pioneering a way to live withoutChindra again finally, you know, Like,
and I think it helps too thatI know some people weren't, but
I think it helps that a lotof the people that you met in Midguar,
they're out in the world too,doing their own thing. So it's
like you're all just kind of learninghow to live outside out from under all

(13:16):
that you know, this is howyou this is how, this is the
future. So I think that helpedme enjoy it a bit more. I
don't know if everyone else saw itlike that, but yeah, it kind
of smoothed over some of the moretedious aspects of it. You know what,
you just opened like a whole Pandora'sbox. For me, I didn't
even think about it. I've hadat all, But like, see,
that's what's cool about hearing other people'sopinions on this. Hayes, Was it

(13:39):
the same for you or did youWhat did you think of that? Yeah,
definitely. I wrote a little bitof a piece about this. But
one of the things I really likeabout the open world in this game is
that each of the areas kind ofhave their own flavor, so to speak,
Like they're all at very visual distinctthey all have different layouts to different
chocobo abilities, but also a lotof the side quests and the side activities

(14:01):
that you get kind of tie intohow those areas stories expand, you know,
like in Cosmo Canyon you're you're fightingthe Spirit of the Gee Warriors,
or in Gongaga you have to gopick mushrooms. So I think a lot
of that content is really kind oftailor made to help help flesh out how

(14:22):
these areas kind of tie into thelarger world, and I think that's what
I really enjoyed, and it hasthat feeling of like, you know,
when I played RPGs in the nineties, as like every town you got to
was a big event, Like Igive a new town to run around in
and I can explore and find allthese side characters and that that game.

(14:43):
Rebirth has that same feeling for everytime I got to a new town,
it felt special. You you havea favorite region of them, I think
in terms of like content and exploration, I'd probably say Homo Canyon, but
I like the music and the vibeof good. Yeah. I was just

(15:05):
gonna real quick. It's really interestingthat you said that, because I've had
several people tell me that something similar, basically that it felt like the old
World maps and rpg is only thatwas actually, you know, there was
nothing there and the old ones atleast there's cool stuff to do with Rebirth.
Yeah, that's yeah, I've heardthat. That's an interesting take.
You have a favorite readion too,josh U. Honestly, yeah, I'd

(15:26):
have to go with june On.I mean, I like most of them,
but I really like the june Onregion, and I think like the
backstory about the Republican versus gen Orreally made it more interesting. Andrew,
how was that for you? Notyou had to like figure stuff out?
You know, you could talk toI guess Hayes and Josh as well.
But did you like this fool andall that for the the open world elements

(15:48):
and the different questions and things.Yeah? Yeah, I mean I think
kind of my big thing this iskind of like a big thing I reviewed
just across the board because I feellike Rebirth was the game that really respected
my time. And so I'm like, you know, pool much about remake
where you're kind of forced to do, Like you're forced to find these cats
if you want this extra stuff.I mean you're not, you know,

(16:10):
but it's like highly encouraged to this. I feel like you could really take
or leave it for any of theopen world side content. And so for
me, like I did, Ispent like ten hours in the grasslands,
and then when I moved on,I was like, Okay, I got
to get to end of this game. So I kind of just did a
little bit here and there and thenwent back after I finished it. And
so certain things like the Chocobo's Idon't know if I needed to have to

(16:33):
tame a chocobo. Maybe I couldhave done without that, but I loved
how the side quest and this somethingI think Hazes talked about. The side
quest felt really integrals. There weremoments where I would go, wait a
moment like in Gangaga, for example, I see Sisine and having played Crisis
Core, I go, oh,are we going to acknowledge the history there?
And the game in the main streetdoesn't really do that. And then

(16:53):
if you go back and do theproto Relics or do the side quest there,
you get a lot of Sisney's backstory tying into the characters where they
are now. So that was reallyexciting. And then favorite region I might
it's it's tough. It's close betweenthe Grasslands and June On. June On.

(17:14):
For me, I was like,this is what it looks like scaled
up Grasslands. I love. It'slike that moment with Earth where she goes,
oh my gosh, we're in theopen world, and that was my
feeling of seeing everything open up isreally exciting. I actually I kind of
teared up a little bit in Calmjust to see this tiny dinky town from
the original game have such a glowup really affected me. Oh yeah,

(17:37):
like you get that feeling of theyfigured out how to do towns and this
looks so beautiful, Like it's notthis little small thing that you're going to
and then it's like five little housesor whatever. It's like, wow,
there's like this bridge you go overthere, this water you can actually go
on the water. You can theyliterally you do anything in there, and
it was it's it's such a smallpart of the whole journey, but like

(18:00):
that lets you know, oh theyare joking around, They're letting you do
stuff in here. It's you havefreedom that you didn't have in the mid
guard section. Randy. It's funnybecause you know you and I I my
co host, also reviewed the game, but he got the code basically at
launch, so he was playing itlike the rest of us. But it's
funny to hear Andrew say this gamerespects my time when the thing that he

(18:22):
constantly would tell me is this gamedoes not respect your time. But you
know what I would say is thatI think what he's getting at but he's
not saying it this way, isthat they connected everything so well. And
I said this in my review ofEverything is connected. Everything the world Intel
is connected to the Cyclist. Cyclistis connected to the main game. It

(18:45):
all is connected to the relationship systemthat proto weel gives stuff, gives you
more lore on things from other thingsin Final Fantasy seven, like it makes
you want to do all of thesethings, even if they're mundane. These
wars that you get for this stuffis so worth going out of your way

(19:06):
and even getting lost in Gongaga todo it. You know, Randy,
did you feel like that? Iknow you didn't. I know you just
decided I'm going to mainline the gameor whatever. But when you did do
some of those those things, didyou feel that too? Oh? Absolutely?
And I'm with Josh. It wasa Junon really changed my view on
the way the open world was goingto work for seven. The Grasslands was

(19:26):
just that really felt like a Ubisoftsection where it was just a big open
area and everything was spread out andthen you had to go. Everything was
like, all right, now it'son the other side of the Grasslands and
then this one will send you back. I'm like, oh, I don't
know if I want to do this. And then Junon was a lot more
concise and so much was involved withit, and then the stories really grow
out from there. And yes,I always always battle back when when Mark

(19:49):
would bring up the idea of FinalFantasy seven not respecting your time, And
in a way, like you said, I do understand where he's coming from,
because you do want to do allthis stuff. Like I didn't like
the side quests and remake because theywere chapter specific, and it's once you
got to a certain point, wellyou better get this stuff done if you

(20:10):
want to be able to experience itor you're done with reworth. I could
just do them whenever I'm still finishingup a couple of the side quests and
having a good time and it doesn'tmess up any of your game. But
like you said, you want todo it. It's like I felt bad
skipping a lot of the stuff thatI was doing, but I just really
had to know what was going onwith seph Roth and what was going to
happen at the end of this game. He's like, all right, I

(20:33):
can get to it later. Icould once I've kind of figured out how
the game was going to work.But Juneo on to me was just that
that opening moment of oh my god, there's so much stuff, and I
liked how Josh said he didn't goout and get the towers at that point,
just so he could kind of findit himself. I think there was
a moment in June on for me, and it was that realization that,
like, you go out and eachof those different things that you're collecting or

(20:57):
you're finding have different elements that kindof lead you that way, whether it's
an awl or or did the livestream pushing you that way, or as
my family has has deemed them,the nut butts, the little chocobos that
get you to the chocobo benches andstuff. And it was in June on
when I'm like following one of thelittle nut butts around and then an owl

(21:18):
would fly and I'm like, allright, hold on, hold on,
I'm gonna go. I'm gonna goget this. It's like, yeah,
you just you just hang out here. And then on my way to that,
I would run into one of thefiends that you would have to fight
for one of the fiend challenges,and then it was like, I think
I did four things before finally goingback just to pick up the pole for
the chocobo station. Because they wereall so close together. I was like

(21:40):
I was like all right, now, it's not like the grasslands where everything's
so spread out. They find coolways to do it, and like everyone
else has said, they connect itwith stories. They connect it with the
conversations that they're having while you're doingall this stuff. It's not just go
to point A, go to pointB, do your thing and you're done.
Like you're learning different pieces of loreif you would choose to do so,
and it just just adds so muchfantastic elements to the storytelling. Scott,

(22:06):
did you have a favorite region?And I think that that you're talking
about junon the perfect like part ofthe main story that really showcases how they
tie in stuff is you could literallygo and completely missed like three soldier sets
that you have to go find ofthe Sector seven soldiers, but you'll you'll

(22:27):
find so many cool little things dependingon who you finding. You don't because
they just they tied all that stuffin. Like just seeing the soldiers,
was it like have a sandy ofrufus shinra just there and they're taking pictures
of it and it's like this isso they don't have any of this technology

(22:47):
and the original file phase of seven, but they made this so modern by
by adding this stuff in here.Yeah, I really love that too.
I love to all like the lifethey give some of the NPCs. My
favorite region is probably the Coral region, So I kind of completely skipped like
everything in the Grasslands because I justwanted to get out of there to go
to where the story wanted me toprogress. June on was when I started

(23:10):
actually doing a lot of the moreopen world stuff of getting the towers and
stuff. But it was Coral thatI actually spent the time trying to do
as much as I could. Butthat was also because I wanted to do
my best to actually find that stupidTonberry King. Yeah, but all over
the place trying to search for misterrealize, Oh no, you have to
get all of these things before it'lltell you where he was located. Kind

(23:30):
of ideal, but it did letme appreciate a lot of what it was
doing with It's kind of just likeit it's subtle world building as well as
it's subtle just exploration that as ifyou, like, you skipped all the
towers, which I did. Iskipped a lot of the towers just because
it's like I can easily see thetower, so I don't need to actually
do anything there. The only one, like, the only place I struggled

(23:53):
to getting to towers was Gonngaga,And that's just because they have some weird
like mushrooms gott to hop on toget to specific ones. Yeah, that
place is like amazing. Really it'sa good thing. The music is so
good. Oh yeah, man,I felt like I was in the Lion
King or something the whole time,like I hate this, but I want
to keep listening to the song somethingI'm gonna I had a spot and Gongaga

(24:17):
that was that same thing where Icompletely got lost. I'm like, how
do you how do you get upto the top of this hill? And
I spent thirty minutes. I went, oh it's underground. Never mind.
Yeah, I was so mad atmyself. I'm like, I went by
this hole seven times trying how doI get up here? Where's the mushroom
that's gonna hop me up? No, no, just go down this hill.
So yeah, out of how manytimes I was trying to find one
of the towers and I literally wentin. I went by that. I

(24:42):
had no idea until I looked ata guide and I was like, are
you kidding me? I went bythe stupid tree five times and all I
had to do was turn like righthere instead of right here, and I
would have gone on the damn treetrunk and gone in sirt like oh god,
that was the old thing I didrealizes that you could like glide on
some of the tree like branches,and it's just like that was never like

(25:04):
told you you just had to figureit out. It's like, you know,
you could have done that thing thatthey added to the original seven,
where you could have had the littlered thing that it tells me where there's
an entry, and you know thatthat would have helped a lot more yellow.

(25:25):
Yeah, they needed more more yellow. Uh. You know another thing
that that how they obviously do thewhole world intel and everything is with mini
games, right and and we allknow that seven had a ton of mini
games and everybody loved every single oneof them. Uh, this one has
some interesting ones as well. Didyou guys uh get stumped by some of

(25:48):
the mini games, like as you'relike, I need to get through this
section, I need to keep goingwith the game, Hayes, where you're
like, why is this more difficultthan I? I think the main story
does a good job of not makingyou play the mini games too much,
like you have to do like theintroductory level of it. But if I
don't want to do the harder stuff, you can move on. But after

(26:10):
I beat it, before the embargowas up, I was like, I'm
gonna try and platinum it and Idid some harder minis, so I was
like, you know what, nevermind, I'm not gonna this like the
crunch off and the chocobo gliding andoh my god on those, but I
think they're fun if you're not tryingto do like completions. Yeah, that

(26:33):
was that was my thoughts too.I had fun with most of them.
There was some of them where likeGears and Gammus, you can just go
go like I'm like, once yougot faster, first do you get to
three and four? And I'm like, dagn why did you have to tie
this wedge stuff from remaking? Herealmost at the phone where I don't want

(26:53):
to do this anymore? Or butI kept going and I finally beat it.
But Josh, did you did youhave a favorite mini game or one
that like stumped you at all?I mean, I've always been terrible at
all the games in the Gold saucer, so that didn't really change in rebirth.
But yeah, I have no completionto drive, so I was happy

(27:14):
to do the introductory thing and keepgoing pretend like you know, it didn't
exist anymore. So, but no, I mean I think I think,
like Case said, though, ifyou're not if you're not trying to complete
them, it's it's kind of justquirky and whimsical and fun. I mean,
some of the the ones with theboxes were kind of unnecessary, but
yeah, I think just on thesurface level, it kind of added a
sense of whimsy for me that hadn'treally been present since the PlayStation one era

(27:40):
as a game as a series kindof shifted more towards more serious storytelling without
any kind of hard moments. Excuseme. So yeah, so because I
didn't really try very hard, Ididn't have any of the stumping. So
that's a short version of that.Well, I mean, Andrew, at
least, uh, you know,did you did you try the Chicken mini
game while you were doing the review? No? I think, yeah,

(28:06):
I think I came back to thatone, and yes, I did a
lot of the early side quests andside content, But I am similar to
Randy and that at a certain point, I was like, I'm just gunning
for the ending. Yeah, uh, Scott, are you are you doing
a lot of stuff or are youkind of did you? Are you going

(28:26):
back to that later? Or Imight go back to some of them.
I can tell you one. Iwill never go back to those. A
three D brawler. After I gotlike the third one done and they realized,
oh, there's like three more andthey're all much much harder, I
was like, no, get pastthe freaking moogle. I don't know the
final side quest of the game whereyou helped the Shinra middle manager, would

(28:47):
you fight him in three D Brawlers. That's the most frustrating thing I've done
in a game since like fighting stepsdamn at that level. That's the only
side quest I haven't finished. Themiddle Manager will stay a middle Manager,
I don't care. The only like, the only like mini game that I
would go out of my way todo the completion run for just because I

(29:11):
thought it was such a fun andengaging one was The Shadow Blood Queen or
the Queen Blood. Yeah, thatone was just so much fun, learning
like them putting more into a cardgame that also surrounds the final Fantasy seven.
Myth thoughs was just kind of themost yuki Oh level sense of having
a card game in a game.The ending was was it just straight up

(29:33):
an episode of pretty much the wholething was an episode of It's like we're
we're definitely doing the Pegasus like darkworld thing in here, and like,
my god, it was. Butit was so that's what kept me going
through that entire thing. It waslike it got to the point where I
get to a town and be like, where's the Queensland people? Because and

(29:55):
kick some queens Blood? Here's thestory? Yeah, yeah, yeah story
whatever? Where is the queens BloodChallengers? I think one of my favorite
moments of the game is honestly whenyou figure out there is a story to
queens Blood because you play it fora few hours and like this is fun,
and then you do one one matchand all of a sudden it's like

(30:15):
what is going on? Yeah?Yeah at all? So you guys that
were you know, like you're you'rethinking about, Okay, what am I
going to write about aside from thegame or whatever? Did you really have
the same thought that Queen's Blood wasgoing to be the the thing they're talking
about? If they make any DLCfor rebirth, it's going to be queens

(30:36):
Blood related. I thought queens Bloodwould be big. Yet part of that
is because I, you know,I reviewed with your three when that came
out, seeing how Gwent blew upas like I got the same exact vibe
from Splunders, like people are gonnalove this, Josh, do you think
this could actually be its own gameor or do you worry about it like
maybe getting like Gwent where people areexcited about it at first and then it

(30:57):
kind of just goes away. OrI could see it being its own game.
It's a bit more approachable. LikeI actually never understood Gwinn, which
I probably shouldn't say out loud,but I have no idea how to play
it. The tutorial, I waslike, okay, I finished the tutorial,
you know, in the actual threefinished the tutorial, just then got

(31:18):
obliterated in a match and really knowwhat I was doing. So I think
if there's anyone else out there likeme, it's Queen's Blood is a lot
more approachable for sure. I thinkit's a really good balance of strategy and
just sort of being able to havefun with it, like you could.
Do you think really deeply about thekind of dec your building, or you
could do like I did it mostof it and just kind of wing it

(31:38):
and hope for the best and thenkeep restarting like five times until you finally
win. So yeah, I could. I could definitely see that it's a
really good mix of stuff there forpeople who, like I said, you
don't want to want to strategize andstuff, people just want to have fun.
I could definitely say it being itsown game, I would play it.
I think what I also appreciate aboutQueen's Blood in that all the players

(31:59):
were just whack as hell. Yes, like they all had their own stupid
story like the one in Nibelheim wherethe dude is just blatantly not going to
work because he wants to play Queen'sBlood and I was like, this is
how I feel right now too,I don't want to go. I loved

(32:22):
the little girl with the puppet andlike, yeah, it's like trash talking
and the girls like an innocent sixyear old girl. That's very funny.
I also like how there's a weirdlittle robot with a cowboy hat and yeah,
you see him, and they don'texplain it for like twenty hours.
What the hell he's even doing there. He's like the champion of like you
have to fight him like twice orwhatever. And then the second time as

(32:45):
you get the one of the craziestparts of the story of the Queen's Blood,
which like, man, they Randie, I don't know how far you
got into the the Queen's Blood stuff, but I'm right at the end of
it, okay, but it is. It's such a fun game, Like
obviously, it reminds me a lotof Triple Triad where it really kind of
took over as far as being thatside game that really hooked on. And

(33:09):
the one thing I do worry aboutif they try to make it a full
game is the one thing that reallyhurt Triple Tryad is as as Fan Fantasy
eight got further and further on,they kept adding all these different elements that
to me just ruined Triple Triad.It went away from its simplicity, and
all the weird board rules and stuffthat they would add in to just mix
things up just made the game lessfun and we get a lot more frustrating.

(33:31):
And I never got to that pointwith with Queen's Blood, like they
added new elements and stuff but itreally added to the strategy. It never
felt cheap, it never felt likeit was forced upon you. It was
just different ways to build decks.And that's what I worry about is then
they'll come out with new board rulesor whatever. And I'm shocked. When

(33:52):
I first saw that the Queen's Bloodand saw some of the cards, I
went, all right, they're goingto start you off easy with the the
three lane board, but with someof the cards, obviously this is going
to go to a five lane board. And then as I started to learn
the game, I'm so glad theynever did. Is that game would have
taken forever. But that's what Iworry about is that maybe they go,

(34:14):
all right, we got to makethis as a full thing, but how
do we do it? Then theymaybe it just kind of loses this luster
that Triple Triad does, or likethey were saying it with Gwinn. The
other thing that surprised me is likewhen you get to the Gold Saucer or
Coast of Del Soul, you seelike the challenges. I remember seeing those
the first time, like this looksawful. I don't ever want to do
these. And then when I wastrying to get the Platinum. I went

(34:34):
back and did them, and Ifound out I had a ton of fun
with those, like specialized challenges whereyou have to do specific moves or do
specific cards like exceptionally well done.They they clearly put so much thought into
how to make that mini game kindof evolve over time. Yeah, but
did those challenges have to be sojudgy every time you put a card down?

(35:00):
Oh I don't know about that one. Fine, I'm sorry. I'll
start Oh you did the wrong thingthere, Oh okay, and then somehow
you figure it out and be like, wow, I can't believe you did
that. Basically that whenever I figuredout, I always turned into it.

(35:20):
Man, I'm an idiot. That'ssome thing. I really liked. The
commentator of the tournament, and oneare the moments that made me go whoa
was when you're dueling Earth and Queen'sBlood and the commentator is like, is
this gonna be Earth's funeral? Findout at the end of this game?
And I was like, whoa commentary. Yeah, it's actually funny because I

(35:46):
had no idea. I mean,I was fine because I love playing Queensland,
but it's like funny, I didn'trealize that you can actually forfeit the
whole tournament, and then the samething still happens. Yeah, like and
then what did you got? Ithink when to me, this is one
of the best moments of the entiregame, and that's why I think I
loved. One of the reason whyI love chapter five so much is that

(36:07):
moment where you think it's over andthen Red comes out of nowhere. It's
what the hell happening here? Ihonestly laughed, It's it's a list of
the moon walk, Like, what'sgoing on? They moments. They had
those moments in remake where you're like, there's no way that they're going to
do this at all, Like obviouslythis was just it was a part of

(36:29):
its time back in the nineties,and no way remake is gonna touch it.
The same thing was with the Rebirds, Like there's no way they're gonna
put Red thirteen in a sailor suitor in the shinersuit and he's gonna walk
around like you did, or dancearound and whatever. And then you get
like you said, you get throughthat entire thing, it's like, yeah,
they didn't do it, and thenno, never mind, it is
not only did they do it.They went way over the top with it,

(36:51):
Like every moment that was just asmall sect. That's what I love
about this game. There are somany things that were just a sprite that
moved weird. Oh nope, ithas its own backstory and it's his own
scene and it's own we We're goingto take it way over the top with
it. It's again. It justshows the amount of love that yeah,
like they literally thought of almost anythingto just but and I love how much

(37:14):
like cloud cloud personality comes out alot during that form and too, he
just at the end, he's justlike, oh you want to go?
Then he just flicks the cardim andeverything it's like okay, or where's this
cloud being the entire time? Yeahahead. I think this game is really
good at one thing that often getsoverlooked about Final Fantasy in general, of

(37:35):
how good it can be at kindof absurd ast humor. I have a
piece coming out in the next lockOn volume about Final Fantasy Vive and how
that game like really embraces the kindof like an absurdist genre. And I
think that Rebirth just nails that.You know, it knows it's completely self
aware about what it's doing. Andit it at every opportunity they take the

(37:57):
chance to to go crazy with him. I think that that plays to his
strength. Oh for sure. Ithink I talked about an I review too
of like, for me, whatmakes this game and other people have talked
about it, so I don't wantto like claim that obviously, but how
the connecting this stuff goes through thecharacters the most. What makes this game
to me is the characters and howmuch you feel like they're actually friends throughout

(38:23):
this entire thing. And you know, another one of my favorite things for
chapter five is like, and it'sliterally it's funny because I had just got
done reading the Traces of Two Passbook or whatever, and you get to
chapter five and they literally do thatscene from the book there where Eric is
talking to Tifa like and then shotscoming. We'll talk about this later and

(38:46):
they're both getting out of the theGhener recuts or whatever, and I'm just
like, man, I know it'sthe same guy that wrote everything, but
it's still like it's that level ofcare, that level of seeing how you
know they became friends just and alot of it's off screen, but you
can realistically, we haven't seen theminteract this entire time all that much,

(39:08):
but you can literally, you canreally believe that that scene is actually happening,
and they're really feeling that way fromjust how you journey with these characters,
and I think it goes into howthey like, Really, I feel
like everybody gets paid off in away in this game, but how they
introduced some of the how they introducethe new characters to me and make them

(39:31):
pay off, I think matters alot. What did you guys think of
how they I guess one character thatwe don't he's by himself most of the
time, but he starts off thegame Zach, and then he kind of
has these little short interludes throughout thegame until you know, we get to
the part of the end. Didyou guys feel like they did Zach justice

(39:52):
or did you want more Zach inthere? What did you think? Josh,
That's a good question. Excuse me. I think I expected more Zach
at the start, especially because hedoes kick the game off. But I
think I think it works having thesejust these limited moments of him and you

(40:14):
know, kind of teases of somethingelse going on with the whole metaverse thing,
and I think it was nice seeinghim act competently for a change because
he was. It was a goodfoiled cloud, you know, it was
most of crisis story. He's justyou know, Goo ding dong. Yeah,
so it was I think the momentsthat he was there, it was

(40:35):
really good character growth moments for him. Yeah, I think it probably could
have. I think more Zach momentsmight have kind of cheapened the effect they
were going for, because it wouldhave just made it too much like oh,
worlds colliding, you know, whereasyeah, leaving it to your imagination
and making guess more makes the finalpayoff better. Anyways, Hayes, what
do you think was there enough Zach? Yeah? I pretty much agree.

(41:00):
I think using Zach sparingly was probablythe smarter move. He is a fan
favorite character, but I think inthis game he's really used effectively as kind
of a thematic tool to dig intolike that theme this game has of you
know, taking control of your ownfate essentially, which has kind of been
the theme of the whole trilogy sofar, one of the overarching themes.

(41:23):
I think he plays into that reallynicely, of you know, creating a
sense of mystery of like we seethese events happening largely the same way that
they are were in the original game, but he's bringing in that extra element
where it's like there's a difference,there's there's little tweaks, there's little differences.
I just thought his story was usedeffectively in this, and I especially

(41:45):
appreciate that all of his segments don'thave combat in them except for the beginning
and the end. Yeah, it'san interesting kind of look at having a
character that there are probably a lotlot of people that wanted him to do
more, Like I can kind ofunderstand the folks that wanted, oh why
am I just walking with Zach?You know, like what this feels like

(42:07):
I'm just doing remake again and Ididn't want that, But I feel like
it pays off in the end whenyou have those moments at the end,
And I feel like some there's somefolks that obviously you get to play with
her, so it's different in thatway you get to use her in combat
all the time. But I've seena lot of people being like, oh,
man, youth, he's just thiscomic relief. She's one note.

(42:30):
You know, you don't get alot with her. Uh, Scott,
did you feel like that or doyou feel like they really made Ufi into
a much better character in this game. I think they made Ufi into a
much much better character, especially becausein the original she's just like the optional
character. My very first play throughA seven, I never got her.
I didn't realize she was a thing. I didn't know that she wasn't thinking

(42:50):
util I played Keingdom Hearts one forthe first time, saw that, looked
at it inside She's from She's fromFinal Fantasy seven. Where how When I
went back to Final Fantasy seven lookedup the guide, I'm like, how
did I miss this? Yeah?But then you realize that she doesn't even
have a lot of lines in seven. When you bring her with stuff as
a party member to stuff, shejust kind of exists. And then you
have actual, like like optional stuffthat is also optional that happens, like

(43:15):
when you get to like the Wutaistuff in seven. That's when Ufi gets
a few moments at least, Butmost of her moments is just stealing from
you and then running away. SoI do like that they gave her a
lot more of a personality and moreof like a reason of why she's interested
in this gang where they even startedthat interest coming from intermission where we got

(43:37):
to have integrate DLC that happened.That gave us a lot more engagement of
how Ufi got interested into Avalanche andwhy that's such interesting to her, which
was a great thing to add andgive you fee a reason of being here
than just oh they found her randomly. Did you like the way she was
introduced? I thought that was adifferent way to do this CPR mini game.

(44:00):
Yes, uh yeah, what didyou think ander of how they I
guess how they use Zach and Ufiin this game. Yeah. With with
Zach, I mean my big thingwe'll we'll probably get to this more later,
is I feel like there's still abig payoff in part three with Zach

(44:21):
that they're building two. I feellike he's gonna have a big hero moment
in three. It's just my predictionin part three. So I felt like
this was a nice way of introducinga little bit more of him than at
the very end of a remake andjust kind of teasing out, Okay,
we have a little bit more Zach, and I feel like there's still a
building to something. But I likedthe amount that we had of him in

(44:43):
Rebirth And then for you Fi's becauselike a lot of people in the original
game didn't really like her. Andthe next character I know Hayes has has
strong feelings about is Kate Sith.And it was like Uphie and Kate Sith
people did not like. And Imentioned my review that those were two of
my favorite characters. I felt likethe performers did an amazing job at voicing

(45:07):
them, making them, making youcare about them, making them sympathetic but
also really funny and endearing. Yeah, that was thank you Andrew for giving
me the wonderful segue. That wasgonna be my next point of Kate Sith
Man. I feel like if anyonewas absolutely hated in that game by virtually

(45:29):
everyone was Kate Sith And then whoa, they actually got a Scottish actor to
do his voice. He has amazing, hilarious lines. He's actually competent in
combat in this game. And whatdo you know, I think we all
end up loving Kate Sith. Youknow, Randy did, Like I kind

(45:51):
of felt sad when you had thatmoment of you know, he's going to
leave your party because I liked himso much. Yeah, I thought I
did a really good job. Butwith Kate, with a lot of people
from the original. It was neverin my party even I think in Rebirth
he was one of the later choices, but even on the on the sections
that you had to play as hehad his own individual feel to him in

(46:15):
the combat and as far as hischaracter, when I thought they really did
a good job of getting a littledeeper with with Kate Siths himself and it
kind of as knowing where that charactergoes and and the backstory and the stuff
that they haven't revealed yet. Ireally think that they kind of hint added
a lot more with Rebirth. Itjust kind of sow those seeds a bit

(46:37):
that for those that have played theoriginal go oh yeah, that that I
know exactly what's going on here andyou get those great stuff. I thought
they they killed it with Ufi.I was I was a lot like everyone
else where. Again, she wasnever really part of my main party when
I would play the original, andand they made her so overpowered as far

(46:58):
as the combat goes and character wasfantastic. That that young innocence where you
can tell she's the youngest of theparty and she has at least life experience
and this kind of stuff. Yousaw that with with integrate. I thought
they did a good job and justher reactions to different moments were fantastic.
She probably has the moment I laughedat the most where she first introduced herself

(47:20):
to the group, did her wholebig intro, and Cloud just went cool
walked off. I lost it.That was probably my favorite part of that
entire game. So, yeah,what they've been able to do with with
those characters that didn't get a lotof like character building in the original and
now they're some of my favorite charactersUfi, especially because now she's part of
my main crew, Like it's it'sTifa, Cloud and Ufi. If I'm

(47:43):
doing anything where I'm really needing tobuckle down and beat somebody, those are
the three I go with. Now, well, I got to hear what
your thing is with Kate Sith.Yeah. Yeah, to me, he's
the one that's gotten kind of themost improvement because I think the original game
kind of the big fly with himis he has that betrayal moment and that's
big, and then you know,everyone accepts him back, and then he

(48:07):
doesn't really do anything else the restof the entire game. He just kind
of stands there, and I thinkthe way his dynamic works with the other
characters is incredible, and he's kindof the apex point of my favorite part
about this game, where you reallyget a sense of how these characters play
off of each other, because Irealized playing this that the original game you

(48:29):
don't see a lot of the relationshipsbetween the other party members. You see
a lot of how Cloud's relationship withthese characters grows. You know, you
see Cloud's moment with Barrett, Cloud'smoment with Vincent, Kloud's moment with Sid.
But in Rebirth, it's really abouthow these relationships are across the board.
So it's the little moments that Ilove, Like in a cut scene

(48:50):
where you see you Fee like fakepunch Barrett and he pretends like he's hurt,
and you know, it's just theselittle interactions that are spread across the
entire game that really show you theunique relationships, not just how people relate
to Cloud, but how they allrelate to each other. Yeah. There,
it's a reaction to hearing Nanarchy's voicechange is amazing. I'm like,

(49:17):
wow, you would have thought thatthat was your buddy telling you that you
know that you've known for years orwhatever, Like you would not expect that
just a video game care to dothat. It is so off the wall.
One more thing about Kate Sith isI love how they kept the betrayal,
but they changed the reasoning that it'snot because he's doing it for Shinro,
but because he really cares about thecharacters and doesn't want them to continue

(49:42):
on to the dangerous temple. Andhaving that of like, oh, that's
the reason, really really like nailedit for me. That they they've connected
him with the party in a reallycaring way. And I also do think
that they kind of cleaned up aplot hole from the original game once you
kind of learn where Kate Sith comesfrom and all that, we talk about
the relationships between all the other charactersnot related with Cloud. We just have

(50:04):
to also bring up the side characters. The Rude Bar scene where he goes
into a bald only bar and singsa song. We missed that too,
which is what I absolutely need.Rude in my party now my favorite non
playable character in this series. Hehad some amazing moments in in remake,

(50:25):
and then he just gets topped evenmore with what he does in Read.
It's so good. That scene isso great obviously for us Keith and Harts
fans. Getting to see Elena eatingSea Salt ice cream was you know,
but Stora comes through one of thesedamn portals in the third game. I
quit. I'm not going to doit. I'm not doing it. Can

(50:47):
you imagine that would mean? Man? Elena to me was actually so well
well done in this game too,Like she got so much personality in this
game that I wasn't acting at all, Like maybe we maybe we fight them
one too many times or whatever duringthis thing, But yeah, I loved

(51:07):
her too. I you know,it's Reno's just getting to sleep the whole
time, so of course, youknow. And then you know, we
also had Sid and Vincent who wereyou know, we don't get to play
with them, but we get tosee them a lot more than we did,
you know, Red in the firstgame. What did y'all think about?
Sid has been changed a lot fromthe character that he was in the

(51:29):
original, and then Vincent I feellike has been changed. He's he's more
himself. But I feel like ifanybody has some amazing lines in this game,
is Vincent, Like of all thepeople, like the dude is supposed
to be super serious he has,like some of the funny lines like what
okay, yeah, I was gonnasay. I mean, Vincent has really

(51:53):
changed because of Advent Children and someof the more character that they try to
give him, and that one maybejust ago just don't remember Duri Servers just
he's really cool in Advent Children.Guys. It's okay. I'm very curious
where they go with Sid because heis not the straight up assholes that he

(52:15):
was when you first meet him happyand the fact that we have not gone
to his hometown to see him bean asshole to his wife. Are they
going to change the Spaceship storyline,Is it going to go different, is
it going to react differently to it? I'm curious what they're going to do
with that because the Sid that wehave seen so far in Rebirth is not

(52:37):
going to act in the same waythat he does in the original at all
during during that section of the game. So very curious what they do with
Yeah. There's a really interesting detailtoo, when you learn that Sid new
Eric's mother Yeah and seemingly had athing for her too, which really is

(52:57):
it positions him as in an interestinglike fop their figure kind of area for
Eiris, and I think that's fascinating, and especially because Sid is presumably going
to be one of the most importantcharacters in the next game, because there's
that whole section in the original wherehe becomes party leader for Yeah, did
you like the way they introduced him, Josh, He's he's the guy you

(53:20):
need to be able to go tothe next place you need to go to.
It's not just you know, theway he's introduced them. Yeah,
I think I'd like Rebirth Sid alot. I think I like him in
general. He's a more interesting character. I kind of hope they do dig
into some of that. I mean, I totally understand what they wouldn't because
it's, you know, obviously aproblematic and it wasn't really explored a lot

(53:44):
in the original. I think theycould do some really interesting things if they
do kind of present his darker sideand the resentment and the pins up frustration
and kind of work through that asa resolution. I think that could be
a really good compliment to Cloud Storeif they If they do it, I'm
fine if they don't, because youknow, Rebirth Cit is basically a new

(54:05):
character with his own interesting kind ofstuff going on. But yeah, I
do hope that kind of makes anappearance like that. I just raised some
pretty interesting story points that kind ofgo along with what's gonna happen to the
Cloud presumably gonna happen in the Cloudand part three I do. The one
thing change they need to make withit is he needs to smoke. I'm
sorry, he has a whole limitbreak where he'd likes to stick a dynamite

(54:29):
with his cigarette, like exactly,Yeah, yeah, I wonder how they're
going to play that off. Arethey going to do that more of like,
oh, that's part of his backstoryand then he explains why he doesn't
smoke anymore or something like That's it'svery They definitely have to use that in
some way because I don't think theycan ignore it if they're orre they just

(54:52):
going to act like that never existed. It's it's just weird with as much
as the stuff that they brought infrom Evan originally, I want to s
see if they actually use that ornot. Yeah, I mean they do
a great job with all these characters. Uh, it's it's I think we
could go on and talk about thema lot, but that that also brings

(55:14):
a lot of them forward into thingswe mentioned with combat, Right, they
added some things to the combat thatkind of helps prove some of that as
well. Right with the synergy skillsand synergy abilities where you have to use
your other characters and you have tagteam moves and things like that. Did
you have somebody? I think youguys have kind of mentioned it already,
like youf he's become a huge partof the party. Did you Did you

(55:37):
like the changes in combat and howdo you think? Do you see how
they could add anything else to thecombat for part three? Because man,
what they did with with what theyadded here, I feel like just took
everything from remake one and answered allthe questions. Heyes, what do you
think? Yeah, I've actually talkedto some people about this before. I

(56:00):
like the synergy abilities a lot.I really think they add a lot to
combat and make it feel more dynamicand make it feel like the team members
are working together better. The bigthing I think they could add to the
next game is being able to swapout party members during battle. I think
having that ability or integrating the partymembers that are in battle in some better

(56:20):
way like in Rebirth. You know, there's when your parties down you can
do like the backline commands, Sosomething like that but more more usable at
any time I think would be better. Obviously, you know, Vincent and
Sid are probably going to play drasticallydifferent from anyone else we but I could
also see, you know, itwould be a huge change, but I

(56:44):
could see them bumping it up tofour party members at a time or something,
and I think that would even justadding one more party member would integraly
change how this combat system works.So I think there are a lot of
like changes they could make that wouldreally make that third game be different.
I mean, did you like thechanges in the combat and what do you

(57:06):
think about maybe adding something like maybelike a Marvelus cacoum assists type thing to
put them in there more if theydon't if they don't do what you're saying,
hey is which I think that seemslike the most logical step, right,
but maybe they don't want to dothat where you're getting too too much,
like moving them around too much,but maybe an assist type thing.
What do you think, Josh,of all the changes? I think it's

(57:30):
just silly because I wrote a guideon it, but I always forget if
it's synergy skills are the ones youcan use any time or sitergy abilities.
But ok, I was gonna say, pretend I know what I'm talking about
and just go with it. Theones that you can use at anytime,
those are fantastic because filling up theATV gauge in the original is such a
nightmare. I mean, God,I hate that. So yeah, being

(57:50):
able to use that to fill uptheir ATV gauge and use their skills more
often would used to build up towardsthe stronger skills. I think that was
probably the best thing un for combat, so that actually made it a lot
more enjoyable for I would I wouldlove to see a fourth party member,
like he said, because the thingI like the least about the change from
the Pixel games to the PlayStation oneera games was that you dropped down to

(58:13):
just three party members. As faras other ways to improve it, maybe
an option to kind of have themuse their own skills as they as you
know, I guess, like apersona kind of type system where you you
set a general sort of command forthe or even as well, I guess,
which just kind of give them behaviorsto follow. And there's you know,
aeroth little wildfire, someone would actuallyheal you and or would cast an

(58:38):
elemental spell or something thing like that, instead of having to stop and choose
to skill yourself. Yeah, Ithink that's the only way I could probably
see to improve it. So partof that was also that they added the
folios wherever you had to get sfee, which also connects to why you
want to do the guy the sidequests and all the other stuff because you

(58:59):
get those books and uh, Iforgot you know, we talked about it,
but you know, of course thatwas also the brain of everybody's assistance
to have to do the mob reques. Also because they gave you, uh
the sp books. Do you likethe way they tied in the folio stuff,
Scott? And and is there anythingelse you changed the combat? So

(59:22):
I feel like the folio thing wasthe one I used probably the least of
all the new additions they added tothe game I did. I basically would
get the teamwork abilities, and thatwas basically most mostly what I'd be focused
on getting because the teamwork abilities arereally cool. And I always of course
had to have the Earth and Barrettone where they had the sunglasses before they

(59:44):
did their big finales. But Ido appreciate that one thing in the folio
system is giving you the small magicalelements that you didn't require U two's MP
four, so I could actually focuson MP on the stronger, the strongest
moves I want, or if Iwant to just have one person be like

(01:00:05):
a buffer or not. So Idid like having that as an option they
added in the folio system. ButI also kind of always hated trying to
find all the folio stuff because Iwas like, oh, do I have
n FSPs like I five off?Dang it. Yeah. At least they'll
let you kind of do your own. You could go back and take it
off something else and if you neededthat five or whatever, letting your respect

(01:00:25):
was it was good to h Andrew. What did you think of I guess
what they they put in the combatand the folios. Yeah, as others
said, I loved the synergy skillsand abilities, the ones Scot's talking about
Sweet and Sour Salvo. It's likeI did so many times. I'm like,
no, I know the name ofthat one that was my favorite one

(01:00:47):
with the matching sunglasses and as asmall and this is another this is like
another easter egg of like they didn'thave to do this but it's great that
if you change their costumes, they'llhave different sunglasses they put on, which
is just a level of detail thatlike few people will appreciate. But when
someone pointed out, I was like, Wow, that's commitment. Yeah.
I liked the folios the one thingabout them that and I don't know,

(01:01:13):
maybe I just haven't maybe one hundredand twenty seven hours in, I haven't
played enough, but I feel likethe limit breaks were really high up there.
It took me a while to getthe second level, and I think
I like almost when I stopped,I got the third level. So that's
something I'd be curious if in thethird if they make limit breaks a little
bit more accessible in terms of whichones you can use. I know that

(01:01:37):
using the synergy skills and abilities,you can level up your limit break.
I only did that to the secondround. I've never gotten it to the
third limit breaks. That I'd becurious. Maybe there's an easier way of
doing it that I haven't gotten to, but I'd be curious if that be
something that comment would say, Okay, which limit break do you want to
start with? Yeah, that waskind of the only thing with the full

(01:02:00):
It was that I was a littlebit like, huh, but everything else.
I like, Randy, did youhave a favorite synergy ability type?
Mo? No, I just Iwas one of those players that I mean,
you watch it the first time,that's great, but I was.
I would hit a synergy skill andthen switched to the one person that wasn't
on it and wasn't even watching them. I did appreciate that too. You

(01:02:21):
didn't have to sit there and watchit. I'm just gonna just continue to
have a ridiculous movement going on onthe screen. I rarely touched the folios.
I know Scott had brought that up. It was like every time you
got to a save butt and they'relike, hey, do you want to
check your folios? I go,I think I've gained one. I don't.
It's gonna take me another twenty twentyhours to be able to upgrade anything.

(01:02:42):
So I just it just kept throwingit into your face and you never
really needed to use it. Theone issue that I really had with combat,
and it wasn't a big thing.It was just something because I'm not
great at games apparently, but theblock button being the same button as the
synergy skills really messed with any timingthat I had because it felt like it
would give you that little hiccup oftime pause to bring up that menu,

(01:03:06):
and if you messed up, I'mjust trying to block. I'm not trying
to do the skill right now,and then I get all messed up,
and then it would I would justget really mad about it. So I
just had screwed blocking apparently, andI just roll around the screen like an
idiot and hope I had dodged everythingbecause I just got so annoyed by it.
But then you get into like therufous fights where like blocking and pairing
is so important. It's like I'mtired of seeing the synergy skills. So

(01:03:29):
I got a little annoyed by those. And again it was just timing wise.
It just my inability to block atthe correct times that was very much
on display when everything paused and go, nope, you were wrong. I
do appreciate how much Bearrett loves hissailor suit. Yes, you know,
he really like went after it withthat thing. He's like, you know

(01:03:50):
what, I think I'll just wearthis one. You know what's uh what?
It took me a while to figureout the synergy skills, but man,
what'd you figure those things out.It's like, like Hayes said,
like that will really break the gamefor you, of like you want ATV
fast, just use those things andimmediate like UFI is amazing. Once you

(01:04:13):
use the the boom or anything whereshe sends it off and it comes back
or whatever. Her ATV's full completely, It's like, wow, they really
they really found a way for youto just make this work so well you
can do what you want with it. They gave you a lot more freedom,
uh, And I appreciated that fromthe comment perspective, and also just

(01:04:34):
that even the synergy abilities aren't likethey have they have separate things. The
syneri abilities aren't like limits. Youcan get knocked off using this syndrome that
had somebody die in the middle ofone. I was like, wait a
minute, she didn't even start doingthe It was funny just to watch it.
Oh she died, okay, whatever, But it made you like respect

(01:04:55):
the limit break that that's the onlything that still has immunity with which is
a cool little function. Really quickbefore we get into I guess like the
the spoiler stuff and just a coupleof other new introductions. Was there anybody
that was like a side character forremake that you were like, Wow,

(01:05:19):
I'm actually happy to see this person'sstory continue or whatever. Like for me
seeing the whole Johnny side quest justoh he splits in like a million Johnnies
and then at the end he's likelike, uh, well, we helped
you a lot, so it's upto you now. I also love that

(01:05:42):
that Johnny. How am I gonnashow people I'm the real Johnny Well all
my clothes, I'm just gonna puta leaf in their hair that Will was
a partner, will surely never gowrong. Hayes, did you have anybody
that my my goofy answers this theShinra middle Manager, because I just love
that the doofiest corporate guy in theworld is kind of like realizing how troublesome

(01:06:11):
his fascist employer actually is. ButI also really like Kirier. I think
she's a lot of fun, andI really like the book that she comes
from. The kids are all right, and her like continued relevance gives me
hope that we're going to see themain character of that book game, which
is his name is Yeah, becausehe's a surprisingly important character that could play

(01:06:35):
an interesting role considering he's you know, related to Rufus, So he's Rufus
Shinra's long lost brother basically, AndI think that would be really interesting to
introduce that dynamic, especially because Rufushas become far more important than ever.
Oh yeah, if there's anybody thatby the end of the game you didn't

(01:06:57):
realize how important he is, theypretty much. Uh, and we'll get
to that for sure. Any Andrew, did you have somebody that you're like,
all right, I didn't, it'sabout to see this person, but
hereious, Yeah, I mean oneis I liked, mean, I guess
this is a side character also fromthe original. But I liked how they

(01:07:20):
went back to Jesse, Biggs andWedge in the Proto Relic Quest And you
can totally miss it, but ifyou do it, it'll explain, you
know, everything that happened to them. And of course we do get a
little bit more of Bigs in thisone. And but in terms of Ritrue
Ones, I really like the cameosof the Wall Market folks on the Shinra

(01:07:45):
ship in the Card Tournament, SoI like that they put those in as
little like fun little people who kindof say, oh, like remember us,
and then they added a chocobo Samto the chocobo side quest, so
I really liked how they sprinkled themin throughout the side quest if you want
to kind of like hop them downand find them. Josh was their particular
one for you, not one thatwas a surprise. I think after Curious

(01:08:08):
showed up the first time, Iexpected most of the name like named slash
important characters from me make to turnup in some capacity, and I think
I would have to copy Hayes thereand say she was probably my favorite,
but for less interesting reasons. Ijust kind of like how she was a
bit of a monster and got awaywith it and everyone was just like,
what the heck, but they hadto do it anyways, So you know,
well, donder her. You gottarespect that they made that a whole

(01:08:30):
arc or Clouds like another place wherehe showed a lot of personalities like stop
calling yourself a MRK. Yeah,that was a good bit of little little
characterization that you know, actual cloudkind of shone through when K has a
moment of self awareness and it's like, is this what you think of me?
Brandy? Did you have one?Or everyone was kind of a hit.

(01:08:54):
I will just reiterate I love thefact that basically Midguard got so screwed
up with every thing that that happenedthat all the Walmart went, We're just
gonna move on a group vacation,yeah, and we just all just kind
of ran into them as they wentalong their little vacation. It was great.
A sad one is you run intoLeslie in the chapter twelve quests with

(01:09:14):
with Tifa in that Battlerena Underground andyou go through that whole thing thinking that
you're gonna find his girlfriend or whateverthis time and still still nothing. I
feel bad for this. It's feltbad for the guy that's definitely coming He's
definitely coming back. Yeah, Scottas you have one at all. So
I was actually really happy to seemore Andrea show up and so we can

(01:09:38):
see you have like do that withthe whole like the piano stuff with Tifa
and Cloud making sure that they haveanother person that can help them with their
piano and they're all their musical stuffgoing on. I do like like they
entered like they had these side charactersthat kind of offered you the side quest
to actually help them and also thenestablish more of what they could actually do
and be helpful far so he didn'thave to learn more about the side character.

(01:10:00):
But I do appreciate the fact thatthey let you learn more about the
side characters if you wanted to.I guess I had forgot about that.
That kind of fits here, Rochegetting more of a deeper instead of just
being the goofy antagonist, him actuallyplaying a major part in some of the
way the story plays out later on. I thought was really cool because I

(01:10:23):
think all of us when Roche showedup in the first one, I was
like, what the hell is this? I mean, he's over the top
character, but it's like, Okay, I expect to see him in the
second one, but why And yousee him again in the second one,
all right, this is the samething. And then I do like from
then on he kind of goes inthis path that was like, all right,
he has depth now, and it'sreally really good. So I'm glad

(01:10:45):
that he wasn't just a comic reliefenemy that you can fight throughout the game.
I'm very glad they didn't tone himdown either. It becomes quite clear
that his obsession with Cloud is morethan just because he wants to fight him,
Like, there's a little more there. Yeah. Oh, at that
moment in June where he shows upand like the whole jazz band starts playing

(01:11:09):
and then they're like, uh,well, we're not really his fans,
we're just doing another part with Roastip. It was just a sneaky, hilarious
moment. Is when you when youget done with that fight at June on
and you're leaving and the group ofsoldiers that you were fighting with that you've

(01:11:29):
tricked into where you were not thetrader or whatever, and they're like,
so back there, yeah he's adick. No not that are you the
trader or not? What is happened? I just love Cloud's response to that.
Yeah, he said that whole sessionwith the uh, the soldiers was
great. Like by the end,I was like, you know what,

(01:11:51):
couldn't could they become like an extraparty? Can't we just yeah, basically
yeah, I look how there's aside quest where you can return to them,
and they're just like, yeah,we still need your help. We
kind of know that you don't workfor us by now it doesn't matter,
yea. Even the commanders like,oh we know, but we need you

(01:12:14):
to figure this out, you know. And something that they showed really early
that I don't think we expected wasthe weapons. They got their moment in
chapter eight, chapter nine, andthen along with them we got a second
class. I know everybody wasn't abig fan of these the Whispers, We
got a second Firson. Now wehave White Whispers. What do you guys

(01:12:35):
think of, like how they didthe weapons and I guess we could talk
about the whole chapter nine thing tohow they like. That whole moment was
just awesome, Like it's one ofthe few times we've ever seen Separo look
human in a way where man,he's he's having a hard time there,
Like, what did you guys thinkof how they introduced the weapons and anything?

(01:12:58):
Hayes, Yeah, I I reallylike this aspect. Actually, I
think it was a really smart wayof transforming an element from remake into something
different because now basically, like youknow, the Whispers were the arbiters of
fate before, but now that fatehas been changed, they've essentially become manifestations
of people's will. So you know, like the blackpers our Sepharro's will and

(01:13:20):
the White Whispers are essentially the willof the planet. And in that recent
documentary, one thing no Jima mentionsis that they wanted to make the planet
itself seem like more of a character. So I think that's why you get
the weapons earlier and why you're seeingthe whispers, because you're starting to see
more that the planet is fighting backagainst sephroth Will and his plan and how

(01:13:43):
Earth ties into that struggle as wellas risking. So I generally pretty positive
about I'm interested with the weapons tosee if we still get all the weapons
from the original, like I UltimateWeapon and so fire weapons seem pretty sure
that it, but I'm curious tosee if we're going to get Emerald and

(01:14:03):
Ruby. Josh, what did youthink about how they showed off the weapons
here? I actually thought it waspretty exciting because I have this kind of
whole theory about how the moment thatlasts for like maybe two minutes in the
original Final Fantasy vin where the weaponsyou know, attacked Midguar and everything just

(01:14:24):
kind of goes hell in the past. I think that's gonna be a whole
huge plot point, and seeing theweapons show up earlier it rebirthed was well
one of the things that actually sparkedthat theory for me. But I think
kind of, like Hayes said,it's It was a sign that they're taking
a lot of the things that wereeither left unsaid or maybe they just didn't
have time to develop further from theoriginal game, like making the planet more

(01:14:46):
of an accent in the story insteadof just oh, here's the live stream.
It doesn't matter until the very end. Well now it does. So
yeah, I think that whole thingwas really well done, and it made
me really excited for part three.Well, I mean they they found a
way to you know, tie thestory actually into this, which was like
one of the probably biggest changes fromyou know, the original is having this

(01:15:12):
whole section with Tifa and Cloud andeven step Rockets involved and everything. Andrew
like, what did you think whenyou saw this, Like is this where
you finally go, Okay, we'refinally getting something here. This is a
this is getting different. So themoment in chapter nine, Yeah, yeah,

(01:15:33):
that was the thing I, likepeople have said, I thought it
was a nice way to blend theoriginal with the remake because in the original,
like you didn't see the weapons thatmuch. They brought them in early.
Then they also tied the whispers tothe weapons, and I feel like
we didn't quite get a payoff withthat, But I'm excited to see how

(01:15:55):
the weapons, the idea of theplanet, and the life stream tie in
seemingly directly to the idea of fateand the different timelines and things. So
again, I think we'll find outin part three, but I like that
they set up more of a correlationof the changes they're making with the original
lore Scott, what'd you think aboutthe I really loved everything that they had

(01:16:18):
to do with the weapons. Ilove the life stream having its own manifestation.
Plus it adds even more to thewhole like section that helps us see
more about the live stream and likeCosmo Canyon helps us understand a lot more
of just the planet having its ownwill. And I love that the weapons

(01:16:39):
themselves on display just looks so goodtoo. So we just have so much
more to do with the weapons now, and it does make me interesting to
see where this is going to goand how it's going to relate even further
into the bigger overarching plot. Yeah, and they found a way to kind
of put Shinner in here as well, of like they're kind of facing after

(01:17:00):
them, and then you be bewith the wonderful line when she sees the
weapons, like Oh, there's ahuge materia there, good luck of the
stuff with and all that exactly whateveryone else has been saying. I think
they did a great job of teasingthem. I think as somebody that watches

(01:17:21):
Maximilian talk about File Fantasy seven forthe last several years and trying to break
all this stuff down, I've kindof gotten in the same boat as him.
Where the third game is going tobe giant Kaiju battles. Do they
go as crazy as fall fasty sixteen? Probably not as far as those battles
go, but just the over thetop miss of those battles, So just

(01:17:41):
getting a sneak peak of the weapons. So I really don't think these are
the final forms of the weapons,because the two that we saw look very
generic and fish like, and goingback to the original ones, obviously they
were very polygony, but they wereall different and they all had their own
abilities. So whether these as I'veheard in other podcas cassa where they're just
like scouts for the planet to seewhat's going on and then they awake the

(01:18:04):
giant ones or these morph into thingswe will see, but it's just again
where you can kind of tell thatthey know what they're going to do with
these, and they're set up forthe third game, so they're going to
tease it now and really build outto it, and it works far better
than the tease of Kate Sith inthe first game. They just roll out

(01:18:24):
there when the Stector's falling, soeverything at yeah, but then they do
such a better job with going hey, like big things are coming with a
third and I like that there's nowtwo different kinds of whispers. Like you
said, it feels like Separata iscontrolling one the planet is controlling the other

(01:18:45):
end, or Earth is controlling theothers, depending on which way they want
to go with it. So theycontinue to try to have the battle over
Fate happen, and I think that'sreally once we get into the story of
this is a main arching plot pointis battling Fate. Like you thought you
beat Fate in the first one,but there's obviously many points in report that

(01:19:09):
goes not Fate's you can't beat Fate. And then I think Zethroth is going,
no, well, I can controlFate. I mean, let me
try to control Fate, and they'rejust they're doing some interesting things. And
what I really love about this sectionof the game was it was one of
the very few where they went theway over the top stuff of differing from

(01:19:30):
the original game, but they atleast sprinkled it here and there instead of
just all right, we're in thelast thirty minutes. Here we go.
Yeah. No, they did agreat job also like showing one of the
big times that spar Off controlled Cloud. Yeah, right of just oh okay,
this isn't you know he's he's reallygot him warped now, you know,

(01:19:53):
he even you know, slash teethinto the live stream and all that
stuff could have possibly caused her todie himself, Like you know, can
you imagine how that would have screwedhim up if that happened. And then
just like what that has to doto the whole Like that's when the party
has to start thinking about how crazyis this guy? You know, like
like I loved all of that,and then also the stuff later in the

(01:20:15):
chapter where you get everybody's I lovethat whole thing of chapter nine of the
guys get strained there, then thegirls have to come and like save them.
Maybe that fight with Scarlett took alittle bit too long, but a
lot of that Chapter nine was greatbecause it was in an area that was
It's crazy that this was an erathat was literally you could completely pass it

(01:20:41):
in the original. It's literally therejust so you could meet Zach's parents.
And they added all of this intoit and then added Cisney in there.
What a cool moment that was tooof just buying Cisne into it. Like
you said, Andrew, they don'treally mention the whole Okay, she knows
people, but then if you dothe thing with the Proto relic later to
with the Turks, you know shecomes in. So that whole chapter was

(01:21:05):
done really well. I thought,yeah, minus the chicken. Yeah,
if you're not going to complete thegame and you're not going for the platinum,
that's a side question. The momentthey say chicken run or realize that
you don't have to wait for thechicken to go all the way back to
the starting spot. You can literallyjust throw the thing back as soon as

(01:21:28):
it's walking back and it won't bethat big a problem. That was my
problem. I kept waiting for itto go all the way back, and
I was like, dude, Ikeep running into the camera, I keep
running into bear, I keep runninginto air, like and then where I
was supposed to bring the chickens becauseI keep I kept forgetting where that was
at, Like when they had togo all the way down and to the
left, like, Okay, wheredo these guys need to go again?

(01:21:49):
Did everybody else have that moment whenyou go all the way out to like
the freaking way past the beginning ofthe towel and you go, no way,
am I making it all the wayfrom year all the way to the
town again? Yeah? Uh?Talk about adding stuff just really quick,
because I think this ties into itas well, because you know, the

(01:22:11):
whole game has this relationship system nowthat they added as well, and talk
about over the top and adding stuffto gold saucers. They somehow took all
the dreams I think we had ofthat when in the original and just decided
this is going to be like anactual Disney World themed dark thing. And
then the moment you see Dio andit's like COVID is just happening here because

(01:22:34):
he's flexing every ten seconds. Youguys, that whole opening number with Andrea,
like that whole thing is just ah. That was great. I think
Dio is my favorite character that theyhave brought over from the original game that
we have not we did not seein remake, just because he was over

(01:22:55):
the top in the original. Andagain it was exactly the same as as
Walmart, Like, there's no waythat Crenado is going to be this wild
in this new game, and they'relike, no, no, it's gonna
be way worse, and that's doo. It's like it's just the way
he flexes on everything, or likehe's having the most normal conversation but making
it so over dramatic and doing themuscle stuff and you're just like, oh

(01:23:18):
my god, that part was sogreat. And again, it's the small
things that they do in this gamethat just shows that they know exactly what
they're doing, especially for people thatare big fans of the original game,
by just going, oh, you'rewalking around the Gold Sauce and you're checking
out all this stuff, and oh, there's a big wall poster up coming

(01:23:39):
soon snowboarding, because everyone knows it'sgonna be and I guarantee anyone that played
the original game, where as afan of Fall Fantasy seven saw that poster
and marked out, yeah, everysingle one. One of my other favorite
details in the Gold Saucers when yousee the stage play Loveless and they it's

(01:24:01):
called Loveless G version, which iscontinuating. That's the version created by Genesis.
It's just like because everyone keeps wonderinglike if Genesis going to be back,
like are they going to bring Genesisback? And they just give the
little tiniest bit of hints. Yeah, yeah, very very small, but
they did that there did really quick. Who did everybody go on the date

(01:24:27):
with? Everybody? Say Tifa oncehere the actually somebody I wanted to go
on the day with Tifa, butit was Eric my first time because I
kept accidentally doing all her side quests. That was the problem with the thing

(01:24:48):
because I wish that they would haveadded the I get why, right,
they wanted to have a mystery toit, but like when you finish the
game, they actually give that wholeexplainer of exactly how close you are with
everybody, whereas they kind of leaveit as a mystery, and so all
you see is like everybody turned darkblue, and I'm like, oh crap,

(01:25:09):
I gotta start doing something so Idon't and I had during that thing
with Cosmo Canyon and she's doing thewhole thing at the campfire, I have
to be a total dick with Cloudand I'm like, I feel so bad.
I'm so sorry. I gotta sitdown. Yeah, you're getting too

(01:25:29):
close and I know what's coming.Yeah. My second favorite date though,
is the one where if you don'thave affinity with any party members, the
vibes are just like going to thecarnival with your two divorced dads and their
cat and the cat doesn't shut upeither. Just also, I really appreciate

(01:25:53):
that you did have to really playit smart and invest Like I know Kyle
who writes for The Outer Haven,was really going for the date with Tifa
and got the date with Red thirteenbecause he just like wasn't doing enough side
quest or something. And I waslike, you know, I'm so sorry
for you. But I like thatit's not obvious who you're gonna get,

(01:26:14):
and if you do, like kindof muck something up along the way,
you can get someone totally unexpected.Yeah. That was nice to kind of
made it a bit more. Imean, it's nice to have that element
of surprise, like like you said, made it feel a bit more,
a bit more special. Even ifit wasn't the one that you wanted to
do, this was still a uniquescene that you weren't expecting and you know,
yeah, that was a nice touch. Yeah, definitely, that was

(01:26:36):
It was a cool moment. Theone with Barrett's also really sweet too.
Yeah. This if you haven't doneyet, it's it's really nice. Like
they're actually all really good to behonest, Like, I they could have
phoned some of these in because theyknow people are mostly gonna go on the
TIFA dat to day Earth Day,but they really added that dedication to all

(01:26:58):
of them that they all made themsomewhat worth it. You know. I
think what's also really interesting about thosedates is that they all in some way
relate to cloud and relationship. Yeah, every single one of them talks about
cloud and tea. Yeah. Well, and I mean there's this kind of
like Jesus is kind of the onlyone that's actually romantic. Yeah yeah,
so yeah, they did like theonly person he kisses on a date is

(01:27:26):
Tifas. They did kind of likesolidify that. And also just one of
the things I liked how each dategives you a little bit of lore,
Like I haven't watched the Red thirteenone or gotten that one, but apparently
they talk about like Red their teenhaving like vestiges of the memories of needing
to protect raths. That's kind ofcool. They were like, Oh,
it ties into like him trying toremember those those like foreshadowing moments. He's

(01:27:51):
like half a second away from wagginghis tail at the start, and it
is the most adorable thing ever.Yeah, I just got arths and I
went back to do the one withyour two dads and their cat? Uh
the did you just? Did anybodyhave an issue with the way they did

(01:28:14):
the Barrett and Dine stuff as likehow they did that from going to the
Saucer too? I kind of Idid wish that they would have left it
a little bit more ominous. Ithink they gave it away a little bit
too much. But other than that, I liked it. I kind of
understood why they didn't do the wholething from the original where they have him,

(01:28:35):
you know, dive off the Didanybody have an issue with how they
had him die in this game oror the fight or anything? I think
it. I think that's one ofthe rare cases where it loses a little
bit of the weight that the originalgame had. I still like it overall,
but I think the way it wasdepicted in the original game is aesthetically

(01:28:58):
and like tonally more dire because youkind of in the original game you kind
of get the sense that Dine neverreally forgave Barrett. But in this there's
very much an intention of like,yeah, he's out of his mind,
but he kind of forgives you.And I kind of liked in the original
where like there was not wasn't reallya resolution that Barrett that kind of closure.
Yeah, Barrett just had to moveon because his friend was gone.

(01:29:21):
Now he just had to find away to deal with it. Yeah,
it would have gave a little bitmore way to that moment that like one
of the cool moments that Cloud hasin the game of like I got you
bro. That being said, yeah, that that scene does have one of
my favorite lines of the game whereCloud, after it all happens, Cloud
is like, we're here to help. Yeah, Like, I'm here to

(01:29:42):
help if you need it, AndI really like when Barrett goes I'm starting
to think you actually mean. Ithink that is such a perfect moment that
shows how their relationship has on asider part of that, I hated the
boss by just as much as Ihated it. It was my least favorite
boss fight. It's just boring,just shooting back and forth. But no,

(01:30:04):
I totally agree. Like at first, I was really into what the
changes they were where you see dyinglike just talking to Maryland and his wife
and acting like they were there,and you're like, oh god, he's
just completely lost it and he's wayover the top. But I agree,
it does kind of lose its weightmore and more as it goes, especially
when you get the general involvement aswell, and and things kind of change

(01:30:27):
the way it was. It wasnot as much one on one as we
got in the original, and Ido think it takes a little bit away
from it. Yeah, and thenof course you have a deal and rude
squaring off afterwards with the tests ofstrength going on there and what was it
adding the thing with Palmer. It'skind of like, why do we have

(01:30:49):
to have this fight right now?But it's just it goes through the whole
goofiness of this game. They donot let you sit very much with anything
before they just start adding something silly. See. The Palmer stuff had me
at first also curious if they weregoing to change everything around with Sid and
his hometown, but he doesn't gethit by a truck, so we still

(01:31:12):
have that moment to look forward to. One thing I did think was I
did kind of actually appreciate in Rebirthwith the whole dying thing. I mean,
I think the bit afterwards was kindof kind of ruined it. But
the fact that there is that kindof closure between him and Barrett, but
Dyne still doesn't want to see Marlene. He still can't bring himself to do

(01:31:34):
that. I think that actually makesit a bit more tragic because it doesn't
end on this kind of like onenote sort of oh, we's see you
know, the bad guy I can'tforgive that's it kind of makes it a
bit better for Barrett because obviously Barrett'sa better choice. You know, Barrett's
gonna be a good dad. Ithink the deal with Dine it's sadder for
him. For Dyne obviously be predeemed, I guess, but he still can't

(01:31:55):
bring himself to his daughter, Andit gives Barrett's role as parent a bit
more because it's not now now it'snot that he's the obvious choice. It's
that he yeah, exactly, therecould have been other options, and now
he's got this responsibility to make surethat he doesn't let let her down anymore,
you know, if that makes sense. I kind of thoughts sort of
chilled off there, but yeah,so, but I think that kind of

(01:32:19):
plays into more of the emphasis onhis doubts as a parent that they kind
of started with the earlier side quests. So I think I'm the only person
I know who actually liked it forthat reason. But yeah, I actually
did like the change. Is thereany other like aside from We're gonna about
to get to the to the endinghere? Is there any other changes like

(01:32:42):
that you really liked or didn't likethat they really did in the from the
original? Uh? I will sayI love the fact that the guy that
runs the prison has a name nowand he has the most amazing music when
he comes out, like the namein it. I think he had a
name in the original, but hewas only in like one scene so you

(01:33:04):
don't remember it. But now he'sGuss and he voiced by Troy Baker.
All yeah, or Baker really doeseverything? Uh yeah, But I'm not
the only one that the moment youstarted talking, I'm like, God,
damn it, Troy, You're notallowed to ship a video game out unless

(01:33:26):
you have Troy Baker in it somewhere. But all right, let's let's get
into the actual chapter. Well,I guess let's do chapter thirteen because I
think that has a lot of stuffthat goes into the end as well.
So did everybody think that chapter thirteenlast too long? At least the agents
or just me? For me,I think that was the one section It

(01:33:50):
was that and uh, this theGenra House with Kate Sith they added when
I was like, oh, Iactually like the original better, and so
I like how in the original conFantasy seven the Temple of the Ancients is
like this very kind of adventure movieIndiana Jones. Uh, you know,

(01:34:11):
death Trap inspired place, And inthis one, it was cool the idea
of like manipulating things, but itdid feel like the gimmick went on for
too long. It's that that thatsituation where that you have to do everything
twice because you get split up intothe two groups, and instead of just
all right, I'm going to doa little bit here and then a little

(01:34:31):
bit with this group, it's oh, let's go back. I love how
it says several hours. I go, I've been playing for twenty minutes most
it. I mean this this segmentis several hours how long it feels like
you even the game kind of understands. So I like the eras part where
you're trying to collect all the littlesoul bits and stuff like that part that's

(01:34:55):
sick forever and and I totally getI I felt the same way where it
felt like it took so long,but it really I think hits home because
it's it's you. You just gotto the point where it's like, all
right, once you leave here,you can't you can't go back to you
get you beat the game and youcan do your chapter select stuff. So
here you go. You're like,all right, I'm right at the end,

(01:35:16):
so I'm gonna sit down, I'mgonna beat this game. And then
six hours later you're like, it'sthe Temple of Atrian's ever gonna finish?
What is happening here? Like Ithink if it was at any different part,
I think that the length of itwas still far too long, But
it was because it was like that, all right, you're in the home
stretch. Kind of understand how theyhad to kind of jerry rig like a

(01:35:39):
random part of the original game tomake it this this final moment. So
that was kind of the tough thingof taking a like an arbitrary section making
it this big finale, and itjust sucks so much because the end of
the Temple of the Asians is sogood. Yeah, you have every character
go on their individual little question,the little story bit. It is fantastic.

(01:35:59):
This the the cef FROs stuff atthe end is one of my favorite
parts of the entire game. Butit was like, for me, it
was almost two o'clock in the morningbecause I was dead, said I'm beating
this game now, and then goinglet's come on. So because I wasn't
expecting Temple of Atrians just to lastthat long. What did you think is?
Did it last too long for youtoo? Or I do Yeah,

(01:36:21):
I think the section as a wholewas a little too long. My favorite
part of the entire game is thatsection near the end where everyone gets their
own like trial, because I thinkit's a remarkable moment of really kind of
showing what unites all of these charactersin the same way is that they're all
kind of survivors of trauma in oneway or another, and so we get

(01:36:45):
to see them all kind of confronttheir trauma in some way, and they
come out of it and realize,oh shit, everyone else just did the
same thing. And I think that'sa fascinating moment where that really creates like
a really strong bond between Josh.What did you think going through that?
Well, I definitely agree with Hayesand that that was you and your piece
about Erith's story in particular kind oftied in with that as well. But

(01:37:12):
anyways, I have a strong dislikefor all of the Birth's dungeons, like
even the Ableheim Reactor from the prologue. I can't stand it. So yeah,
that was kind of just like itmagnified everything that was that was mainly
his favorite part of the game,bland and stretched, but I think the
ending Redeen. But yeah, asfar as in general, Scott, So

(01:37:32):
this is a fun story for thatentire section because I got it. I
finally got there late at night,and that was during the time when I
was like, don'torry, I justI just need to finish this part that
I can get to the actual finale. That's when I'll say, and then
we'll get off the game. Ididn't get off the game until four in
the morning. I went to bedlike three hours before that. I was

(01:37:56):
like, okay, I think Iwas. Also, I think was like
four or five am as well.Yeah, I will get to the finale
digg it. Yeah, yeah,I mean it does. That was definitely,
I think, way too long.I do really enjoy all what we
got to see from the trauma ofall the characters. I honestly didn't think

(01:38:18):
they would actually have I guess theballs to show Red thirteen's actual getting captured
by Hojo and the experimentation that ittook on him, and yeah, god,
actually see for the first time likeever. So that was that was.
Oh god, I almost cry atthat thing I did walking around.

(01:38:42):
God damn it just like screw offkid, like flattened. Yeah, exactly.
That I read like, I feltsad reading it, and then I'm
going through the game and I'm like, oh, this is the book part
and then oh my god, thisis so sad. Randy, you and

(01:39:04):
I have both having daughters. It'slike, yeah, it's brutal. Oh
you know. Then, I mean, obviously they could not do it because
of the way the story is builtand what they had to follow. It
would have made absolutely no sense.But I would have loved to see what
they would have done for Kate Sithagain with with with the character that we
know he is actually controlled by obviouslydo they reveal that at that point?

(01:39:27):
Who knows? But obviously Kate sais not part of your party during this,
so they didn't have to worry aboutit. But it's just something I
thought about afterwards, like what wouldit? What would his It's just the
same clip of remake of him goinglike, no, I imagine him would
have been tied to the collapse ofthe Yeah, because he about that.
I mean they did tease him,like you saw it at one point where

(01:39:49):
he's in the where he's doing thefake cloud and Tifa and Barrett Poster and
you see that behind it that greatand saw comes and he's like, don't
have too much fun now, Likethat was good. I think that's an
interesting wrinkle too, because the original, you know, you presume that no

(01:40:10):
one knows who's controlling Kate Seth,but in this it's abundantly clear that Schindra
knows exactly who Kate. Yeah,I didn't. Did anybody have an like
I had a big issue with likethe I wasn't a big fan of the
whole chasing Kate Sith around the Saucerlike, Yeah, it felt very unnecessary,

(01:40:31):
like they just had prolonged that forsome reason. Did anybody else wish
that was a cut scene? Yeah? That took too long. That was
another spot that took too long,especially when when you did finding me and
you felt really dumb. He's justin the middle of nowhere, and how
I walked around this place three times. It's like you have to you have
to trigger in a certain way sothat the scene will play, and it's

(01:40:51):
like, yeah, oh God,trigger the scene. Then you have to
like go around to go back towhere you initially think you'd have to go.
It sucked. So yeah, Likefor me, I think that the
whole thing with not only the characters, but also I don't know what any

(01:41:16):
I don't know what that noise is. Oh well, there they're pigeons.
I'm in New York and it couldbe I was like, is that how
how loud are they? Yeah?New York? Yeah, where my brain
went sounded like a printer. Yeah. Also, the moments with Cloud the

(01:41:41):
Temple of the Agents are freaking nuts, like where he's just murdering Sindra soldiers
and then everybody goes to that trialand he's just like, can y'all hurry
up already? Yeah? Like whatit opens your heart and has this great
speech, All right, let's go. I think it's open the door,
dang it. I think it's interestingbecause because this story split into multiple parts,

(01:42:05):
you know, like we don't getthe resolution of Cloud's identity crisis,
right, like we just see hisidentity crisis and what that could mean going
forward. But unlike the original game, you know, you don't find out
what's going on with him. SoI do wonder for you know, so
much of these new games are tiedto knowledge of the areams, but anyone
that plays these as their first games, I do wonder what people think is

(01:42:28):
going on. Why do people likeCloud? He's such a jerk. Yeah,
like Cloud, it's like no reactions, you know. Yeah, It's
just there was so much good stuffin there. It's just it was tied
into like one too many battles.I did love the the two battles from
the original with the Dragon and thethe demon Gate. Those are really well

(01:42:50):
that I die at the Dragon likethree times until I figured it out.
I have to what you have todo to get it to stop, making
the lava go all the way tothe end of the freaking block, like,
how do I not die here?So we get past the temple,
you know, we get to thiswhole section with Earth and going on a

(01:43:16):
dream date with Cloud, this wholething with her giving him the material at
the end and pushing him into anotherroom, waking up in the City of
the Ancients, talking to her aswell for like one last time all that.
What did y'all think of this,this whole part here with how they

(01:43:38):
did this, how they're leading intothat big moment, Hayes, what do
you think? So? I thinkfrom I've seen a lot of a lot
of varying on the ending, andI think from an initial reading, I
can understand why people. But Ithe more I've sat with it, the
more I really like the way theydid this ending on kind of a meta
tech and especially that date, becauseI think that date to me functions as

(01:44:03):
kind of a chance for Erith totry and erase the guilt that Cloud feel
because presumably if she knows her fateand knows what happens, you know,
Cloud carries that guilt with him allthrough the original game, even into Advent
Children. I mean, that isa defining factor of his character in Advent

(01:44:24):
Children as the guilt he feels overnot being able to save her. And
so I think a big emphasis hereis Earth realizing that she can't change her
fate it has to be the same, but what she can change is how
the people around her are affected byher choice. And simultaneously, that date
section also functions as a way forEarth to realize that Cloud isn't Zach.

(01:44:47):
Cloud is Cloud his own person,because that date is step first step and
almost an exact recreation of Earth andZach's first date, And it's her kind
of realizing that, you know,she still she loves Zach and she loves
Cloud in a different way, butnot the same way. So I think
it's a really fascinating kind of introspectiveway of setting up that ending that there's

(01:45:12):
just so many different layers up.Yeah, I think that that really gets
emphasized by the whole here. Takethis. This is about saving the world
and saving you. You know,just don't want I still want to find
a way to save you, whichshe's does that several times throughout the both
games, where she wants Cloud tofind himself. Yeah, you know he's
not able to that being said asmuch as I love Rebirth, I think

(01:45:36):
we're in a really interesting position rightnow because I think the general reception and
kind of quality of the trilogy asa whole is going to heavily rely on
what they do with the third game. Yeah, and while I'm hopeful that
they're going to do it right,I think there is a case where the
third game kind of retroactively makes Rebirthworse. I think that's a very real

(01:45:59):
possibility. Yeah, for sure.I mean, you have to stick to
landing with everything that you've been buildingup for these two games, especially with
what they built throughout this entire gameof Rebirth. And I'm with you if
the third game just stinks and goesway over the top of some of the
stuff and none of it lands andnone of the stuff that they're trying to
build and making us question for thesewell, four years will be probably about

(01:46:21):
seven eight nine years by the timewe get to the resolution, and then
we feel like, well that thewhole thing sucked and the whole thing fell
apart. But I really liked thatthe Earth Date scene. I thought there
was a lot of little Easter eggsin it, with the different stamp,
which was the first of mini thatwe're getting ready to be thrown in your
face. But that was the kindof the first time you're like, oh

(01:46:43):
wait, there's a third one.Oh okay, So now we're in a
whole different because we all kind offigured out what the second one was at
the end of the remake and wereon the same page. We're on the
same page where we're here, andthen you're throwing this wrinkle at me,
and now now there's a fourth oneover here, and now watch his bucket
from the beach is just running bywith the fifth one, and like they

(01:47:04):
just had a lot of fun withit. But I thought Hayes nailed it
as far as like the different contactthat they were trying to hit with that
date and just ariis trying to answerher own questions and give relief to Cloud,
and I thought that the scene waswas really well done, especially with
her waking up going it's just adream, don't worry about it. Just

(01:47:25):
yeah, we're just we're just here. Don't worry about the crazy stuff that's
actually happening to us at the moment. But Josh, what did you think
of I guess before getting to likethe actual ending stuff, this is kind
of like Air saying by yeah,I mean, I don't really have a
lot to add already say, Imean, it's kind of captured it perfectly.
I think I think it was anatural way to build on everything they've

(01:47:48):
done since remake as far as deepeningeveryone, deepening the relationships, you know,
giving Air more of a personality,because in the original she's well and
even kind of in remake to anextent, she's kind of just just you
know, quacky, go lucky.Oh, she's not gonna let anything get
her down. And then there's alot more depth to her that comes out
at various points. Again, theoh ord to forget exactly when it was

(01:48:09):
was after the beach fight, whenshe's saying how she's afraid of the darkness
inside her y. I think that. I think the dream scene and the
date, I think that was areally pivotal moment for her as far as
coming with her own fate, becauseI think a lot of it, a
lot of the emphasis is on asplayers, what's going to happen to Earth,

(01:48:31):
and then Rebirth has Earth saying Okay, this is what's going to happen
to me, and this is howI'm gonna handle it. I'm going to
deal with it. So she's kindof addressing the problems that she raised in
that beach scene. You know,the darkness inside her, all the uncertainty,
all the problems and everything that aren'tweighing her down. This is her
answer to that. This is thechoice that she's making, and in a

(01:48:53):
very earth way, she's thinking ofother people. You know. It's she's
not gonna just do that. That'sgonna make lies for her, even if
life doesn't go on for her.So yeah, I think it was an
excellent scene, and they're like,like you said, and like Randy said,
there's a lot to unttack there.So I loved it, honestly.
A moving beyond that obviously to Cloudwakes up walking to the city of the

(01:49:15):
Vcients. You get that whole entrancepart with the whispers again and then basically
they all weirdly that Vince is thelast one that has to come in too,
like let him through, and thenyou get that whole area there,
and then we get that ending whereyou don't know you do you don't what

(01:49:38):
happened? Did she die? Didshe not die? Did Cloud stop?
It? Is it all in hisbrain? Scott, what did you think
when you got done. I hadto go through a lot of thinking and
processing on things, but I doremember the first thing I did do was
write an entire like thesis to Andrew, like Okay, so this did this,

(01:50:01):
this, did this, this,this this, But like my my
first reading on everything before I wantto look up like theory videos on stuff.
Was what we got to see,like in like the Zach areas,
where like the traverse town of thelife stream where everything kind of enters in
all the weird uh anomalies are therethat shouldn't be there kind of a deal.

(01:50:23):
And so when we got to seelike the different timelines diverge and all
the all these different worlds that arecreated because Sephroth is screwing things up just
because he Sepharroth and has a bignine thousand IQ plan in mind of what's
he wants to do with the world. It's just interesting to see that the
life stream is using so many differentways and methods to try to correct what

(01:50:45):
Sephrot's trying to do. And oneof them is this like timeless timeline kind
of traverse town area that can intersectwith different worlds and has so many different
things going on that you have tolike pay attention to so many little things
undertan that's what's going on, becauseit's like, well, time doesn't exist
here, clocks don't exist here.The entire memories are all over the place

(01:51:08):
because they're from different timelines of differentevents that happened. It's like Zach shouldn't
know this thing, Big shouldn't knowthis thing. And it's just like there's
so much going on that it justmakes you so like I had to like
redo like different youth like views tosee like, oh, this is what
happens in this section or this sectionand this section, because there's just so

(01:51:29):
much theories you can make with whatwe see. At the end of does
Cloud tries to save Erith? Doessave Eareth somehow in one timeline, and
then then a doesn't in another,and you aren't sure what's going on since
and Cloud's the only one who cansee both. Andrew, how much of
that thesis did you actually read?And yeah, well it's funny, it's

(01:51:49):
all it's all connected. Because whenI finished it, I messaged both Hayes
and Josh to be like, wait, what what do you think happened?
And I got two completely different answers, and I was like, Okay,
that's good. I'm in a goodcompany here, and yeah, I have
so many thoughts about the ending.I've played it three times. The first
time I just had no idea.The second time I was, like Scott

(01:52:14):
said, I was looking with anew perspective, paying attention to the rainbow
shimmers and like who passes through them? Who doesn't. So that's when I
went, Okay, I think we'regetting a diverging timeline scenario where like she's
alive in one not alive in another. Then the third time I was like,
oh, they do. There iskind of a finale to it where
like it it seems like maybe sheis just dead and they all kind of

(01:52:36):
converge into like the one where she'sdefinitely dead. Since then, I've decided
it's like all of the above.I think it's just deliberately ambiguous and we'll
find out in the third one.I will say, in terms of like
things how I felt about it,there's kind of something I didn't like about
the ending, something I was mixedon, and something I really loved.

(01:52:58):
The one thing I didn't like aboutthe ending is that it I felt like
I didn't have as much of anemotional response to it, only because I
was kind of confused. It triesto have its cake and eat it too,
So I feel like with the original, you know spoilers, you know,
everyone knows at the point, butlike she you know, she dies
and I was like, oh,that's really quite sad, and this one

(01:53:21):
it was because they give the hintthat maybe she's still alive and you're not
sure, it kind of undercut thatsadness for me personally. Something I was
kind of mixed on is that youkind of find out in the third one,
like they are kind of saying,Okay, you have to play the
third one to like really know.It feels on one hand a little bit

(01:53:41):
like a marketing ploy, but onthe other it does invest me in the
third one a lot for me tosay, Okay, we'll get the answer
in the third one. But thething that I really loved about the ending,
and it was kind of a littletouched on a little bit with that
date scene is in the original,it felt a little bit kind of incidental
that Earth dies, like it's like, oh, it's it is sad.

(01:54:03):
But I think the developers even saidthey toyed with it being tifa with it
being Barrett and then settle on Earth, and I loved how in this one
it felt like it really was thishuge mastermind battle between Cepharrof and Earth for
control of the planet, like wetalked about with the whispers on sephrav side

(01:54:26):
those on Earth's side, and seeinghow Earth says, okay, a version
of me in one timeline is goingto hide a materia and then give it
to Cloud this one moment, likeshe's planning, like like you said,
like Cephrov has this mastermind plan,but Erth also seems to have one,
and that really excites me of thepotential for in the third game, Like
these two mastermind plans of the planetand all its personification and Earth guiding it

(01:54:53):
going up against cephar off his whispersuh and his plan to take over all
of Fate really excited me. Asas an addition, that wasn't did anybody
have like a thought when seth Rossstarts explaining about all the worlds and everything
be like I don't want the MCUand fallow Fantasy seven or were you just

(01:55:16):
you expected at this point you werefine with that. I was fine with
it. So we started having thisdiscussion and now all I have in my
thought is sora A popping out andwe get that whole end game deal where
a bunch of portals pop out andlike all the heroes of all the Final
Fantasy games and all the Kingdom Heartstuff all show up to take them off.

(01:55:39):
Now that I have that image inmy head, I hate it.
But before that I don't mind,especially because they do such a good job
of teasing it, like, Okay, we have all these different timelines,
and we have all these different branchingpaths and all these different things that happen,
but they get closed, or atleast most of them get closed.
And now I feel like part ofwhat we'll get in the third game is

(01:56:00):
Zach trying to reopen one now thathe has kind of been able to see
that there's a way to get back, and obviously by being able to fight
with Cloud even though they weren't reallytogether but they were because of the weird
connection section that you were at inthat Final Boss, will be an interesting
storyline to get in. I also, I brought it up earlier in this

(01:56:21):
but the whole idea of Fate andwe thought we defeated Fate and remaking,
we thought, oh, everything's goingto be completely different. And there's several
points throughout this game, especially withEarth and Zach, where they show it's
like, no, there's just there'scertain points that are going to happen in
every timeline. You might have skirtedit here, but like every choice that

(01:56:43):
Zach made, he ended up infront of an army or a whole lineage
of shinder shoulders ready to shoot himdown, because that's how he ends.
We see right after Earth gives thewhite material to Cloud that seth Roth comes
through the door and he's there tohunt her down. He's going to kill
her, and every retimeline that's justhow like fate is going to work.

(01:57:03):
And then the way I interpreted theending and it has definitely changed, and
especially watching other spoiler cats and listento other people talk about it. And
that's what I love about both ofthese games so far, because if you
go back to when Remake first cameout and the reviews came out and they're
like, great, the game's great, but the ending I don't know about

(01:57:27):
that, and then over the yearswe all went Okay, I get it
now, like I get the ending, and we've all had these great discussions
and it's like, oh, itreally made you think. Same thing happened
with Rebirth. The reviews came outand they're like, oh that ending though,
like the ending, I don't knowif what people are going to think
about it, And already, aswe've gotten a couple of weeks in,
more and more people, it's likeit just brings these discussions in and that's
what I love about it. Butto me, it's it's like did she

(01:57:50):
or did she not die? Ithink she died. I don't think that
was a sepher off changing of afate or anything. We see it many
times where cloud sees something that's notreal. We saw that with Nibelheim,
where I mean even with the demo, where he is seeing things he wasn't
supposed to do and then all ofa sudden things shake and then his visions

(01:58:10):
back with him. I think hethought he saved her, but obviously he
doesn't. That's why the rest ofthe party member sees her dead. It's
why cephyro At at one point goes, you're never going to see the truth
with clouded Eyes, which is aplay on his name, which made me
cringe a little bit. But it'sone hundred percent true Cloud can't see the
truth and even like throws the bloodof Earth at him, like, look,

(01:58:31):
I this is her blood, Likeshe's dead, but you can't see
that because you don't want to seeit. Like I think they took the
whole idea of Cloud being so messedup at this part of the original game,
and after he gives off the BlackMateria a little bit later in the
original where he goes completely off thedeep End and they've like surrounded it even

(01:58:53):
more so now he's seeing Earth andhe is seeing his own thing. And
I love listening to what was anEasy or Easy Allies spoiler cast yesterday with
Maximilian on there where they were talkingabout there's a theory out there already that
the Earth we have at the endof the game is sephyar off because she
has a red tint in her eyesand she's acting different than she did before,

(01:59:15):
and it's like, this is whatI absolutely love about the stuff.
Final Fantasy seven was my favorite fanFantasy seven of all time because it got
me into RPGs. It got meinto this series. But what they've been
able to do with this and beingable to break it up into three games
is throw so much wildness out therethat is connected in such a fantastic way

(01:59:38):
that everyone went, well, that'snot like the original sow it sucked.
But then we have these discussions andthen more and more happens, and then
by the next game, you're like, I cannot wait to see how it
connects with the crazy ending they had. And in three years, when they
finally give us the first trailer forthe next game, we're all gonna go,
oh, I know where it's going. I know, I got it

(01:59:59):
now, I have I figured out, And they got no, you don't,
no, not at all, andwe're going to surprise you, and
you're going to hate it at first, and then then you'll understand what was
going on in her brains and it'sall going to work out great. Yeah.
I think there's some really interesting ideasin the execution of the ending too,
And I want to shout out.Giovanni Colntonio on Digital Trends put out
a really fantastic piece on how hedefended the ending. Had a lot of

(02:00:21):
the same thoughts I do. Butyou know, when they announced the remake,
the number one question was what happensthere? Absolutely that's what everyone asked,
and so you know, it kindof created this Schrodinger's Cat kind of
situation of like, is she goingto be alive or is she going to
be dead? And I think thevery execution of the ending plays into that

(02:00:43):
idea, because I think they intentionallyobfuscate what happens in that moment, because
it's even right up until the secondit happens, they're trying to give you
hope that she might live. Butthen it ties into that whole theme they
have at the end of you know, fate and our lives. There are
certain things that we can control,but there are also certain things that we

(02:01:03):
can and I think there's a reallyprofound message in Rebirth of like, you
know, you can't always control thingsthat happen. You can't control who dies,
You can't control certain things, andI think that's why Big Bigs dies
as well. But you know,a lot of people say they brought him
back for nothing, but I thinkhe also ties into that idea of you

(02:01:23):
know, that's something you just can'tchange. Bigs died and that's that's just
it. He can't escape that fate. And I think there's some interesting agency
given to Earth by letting her knowwhat her fate is and choose how that
fate plays out. Yeah, well, it's gonna be interesting how they pieces
together and they it like I lovethe ending for the same reasons Randy did,

(02:01:48):
and that we all know we're goingto have to wait. I know
people wanted to have unending right tothis. You wanted to have that moment
that you had in the origin whereyou have the burial in the water and
all that and you have the Okay, it's never gonna hit the same way.
It doesn't matter what we try totell ourselves. It's not going Unless

(02:02:10):
this is your first time, thenokay maybe, but most people are coming
this having played the original. It'snot going to hit the same way if
they do it the carbon coffee sameway. Right, So we know we're
gonna wait at least three years.They got to give you something to discuss
in that time. They got togive you something to anticipate in that time,
and this is a great way todo it and play into that hole

(02:02:33):
man Cloud is really screwed up,like Cloud is, do it if they
have some kind of psychiatric thing inNibelheim or Midguard wherever that he needs to
go to. They gotta have likethe super duper version of that, because

(02:02:54):
you know, Likeatifa's gonna really haveto have to pull something out of a
hat in the deal. Is that, like they had to make this bigger,
right, they had to make this. Now he has something else he
has to overcome because he thinks thatshe is actually alive. So how do
we go from this to what's goingto happen in the third game? And

(02:03:15):
yeah, it's it's such an awesomething for them to do with that.
I just want to say real quicklythat I don't think Cloud thinks Earth is
alive. I think he knows thatshe's dead and he just accepts that she
has her own battle I am.You know, there's a lot I could
say. I have a whole theoryabout how Cloud traveling to the other world

(02:03:35):
has connected him to the life streamand now he kind of has this this
multiversal sense like Earth and Sapharrov have, But it basically boils down to I
personally don't think Cloud thinks Earth.It's also it's funny you both mention that
because I think that in that momentwhere like Tief has to go on the
life stream and resuscitate Cloud, Ithink and I could be wrong, but

(02:03:59):
I think that's where Earth and Zachare gonna reappear in this one, because
it's like it'll take a lot morethan maybe like just titha Tifa. So
I think maybe we'll get with himbeing in the live stream, we'll get
that convergence of the life stream andlike the real timeline of them being like
Okay, we need to help thisguy move on, and like we need
we need everyone now, Yeah,we'll have the avage we'll see Yeah,

(02:04:24):
because there's literally laying the groundwork inthis game of the live stream, not
just connecting the planet, but nowthere's like this universal life stream that runs
through all the multiverse, right,yeah, Like are we going to see
the black and white live stream andall that eventually? So like, well
we talked about it already, Butmoving to the party, the moment where

(02:04:45):
they see Eric did to the endingwhere they're repairing the ship. Earth has
her home own where she's sitting theretalking to Cloud. Is she really there
or is she not? If youlook close, she's only there when Cloud's
looking at her. The rest ofthe time, she's not, Uh,
you know, I know, Maxand some other people brought up the whole
is she Genova thing, playing aroundwith with Cloud even more, and then

(02:05:11):
they take off and that's the end, and you know, the whole unknown
journey will continue into the next game. We'll talk about the stuff with the
rufus in a little bit. Butwhat did you did you did you did
it change anything those did you havea moment where Okay, I think I
know what's going on when you gotthe death scene and then when you saw

(02:05:31):
this you're like, oh, waita minute, Cloud just put black material
and it's sword, and I havewhat the hell happened? Like Yes,
I think it is kind of perfectlyexecuted to be as ambiguous as possible,
because it's like great, I thinkBrett, you say like, oh,
only Cloud can see her. Sheis dead. There's something like she puts
her hand on Red thirteen. He'slike oh Eric, and you're like,

(02:05:55):
wait a moment someone else like didhe just say that because he happened to
think of her? Or like didhe feel that? Also at the very
end, one line I keep thinkingabout is when she says like, oh,
I have to go back and he'slike, oh, like you know,
what's it like? She's like,Oh, it's like a second home
and Iverye. People say they thinkthat it could be she's referring to the
life stream. She could be referringto another timeline. She could be referring

(02:06:18):
to the Forgotten City. It's notreally clear, and so I think they
could have, you know, theycould have easily been like, I got
to go back to the city.But I think the fact they never put
a proper noun there, they're reallyleaning into the ambiguity of that scene.
Yeah. I think they also nailit really well with leaving her there where
she has to go back and dothis stuff, so then it's not just

(02:06:39):
Cloud leaning over to the right andtalking to somebody that's not there for the
rest of the party. For mostof the third game, she's just not
there. And I think that'll keepCloud sounding sane until everything falls off the
rails, where he's like, yeah, we left there back at the Forgotten
Capitol, and everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely we did,
and we left her in a differentstate and you thought you left your

(02:07:00):
in or Hayes's idea is very interestingtoo, And again this is why I
absolutely love the way they did this. There's so many theories out there,
and being able to hear different ones. It's really really fun and hopefully they'll
be able to answer all of themin a fantastic way in the third game,
or they're going to go way offthe rails and so is going to

(02:07:23):
show up, so we will findout. I mean they did with the
Go Gomesh stuff where he's another FinalFantasies. I've heard some wild theories there
as well, where they're trying tocombine all of the Final Fantasies together and
please do not let's let's not goway over the top with this. But
no, I really thought that theynailed the ending, especially because you were

(02:07:44):
expecting something over the top with theway remake ended, where you're like,
all right, they're going to reallyset up a lot of stuff for us
to kind of mow over for thesenext couple of years, and they really
planted some interesting seeds that now weall get to have a lot of fun
discussions over the next couple year.I just felt bad for Tifa at the

(02:08:05):
end. Well, yeah, themost it's like that's your best friend that
now again you had somebody ripped awayfrom you. She doesn't even say bye
to you at all, like she'syou know, like why couldn't she have
talked to Tifa at the end theretoo, you know, that's tell her
to wake up? Okay, Ido you think there's going to be some

(02:08:26):
kind of resolution there, because inthe original game, when the live stream
comes out and stops media and youbeat sepferr Off, there's a moment where
Cloud and Tifa are like kind ofseeing the life stream, and there's a
line where Tifa's like I can senseher and Cloud gills go see her there.
Yeah, that's presumably them talking aboutyou know, they know Eric is
there in the life stream. SoI think there'll be some kind of resolution

(02:08:48):
between Tifa and again, or justeven some kind of shared knowledge or something.
I wonder if she sees anything becauseof her being interacting with the live
stream already too. I think that'sa very viable possibility too. Yeah.
Yeah, Like they show that flashwhere she kind of sees the whole where
Cloud has the whole hand on herface thing, and then they see the

(02:09:09):
flash of the blood too, andit's like, I wonder if she can
see both versions, and she justsays that she's also confused and doesn't know
the livestream is kind of like themagic card to find since seven it can
yeah, pretty much do anything right. Then at the end after this they
do the whole stuff with Rufus andGlenn from Every Crisis shows up and he's

(02:09:35):
supposed to have already been dead,and then you find out that Zeparav and
Ceparov's messing with him too, andwe find out the whole thing about Wutai
is a ruse to keep Rufus offof the actual goal of you know,
he's not supposed to be chasing Separovas well in their own way. So
basically we kind of already knew becauseof the way that they don't really talk

(02:09:58):
much about what yef He's going through, that I was probably going to play
a big part in part three.And also no Moro has already been on
record of saying, well, we'rebasically building an entire country, so get
ready for this thing to be big, you know, but how much do
you think we're Are we going tobe basically fighting a war for half of

(02:10:20):
three or like what what do youthink is going to be going on there?
And does it? Because I heardsome people be like, man,
why did they even put this inhere? I hate this this even exists
where were you on this kind ofbeing like the last thing you kind of
see with this game. Do youwant me to answer first? Yeah,
yeah, you know, I gotyou know, I got a lot of
thoughts about Rufus. I've been beatingthe drums since remake that Rufus is one

(02:10:46):
of the most important characters in thistrilogy, and I'm absolutely sure of that
after Rebirth, because you see itsuggested in that final scene that Rufus is
also Viceroy who's the it's the leaderof Wu Tie, so he's kind of
orchestrating this war. But at thesame time, there's hints throughout the game
that Rufus is somehow a little moreaware of what's going on than most of

(02:11:09):
the other characters, and the there'sa scene at the end of Rebirth where
it's clearly shown that Rufus can seethe which makes him at that time the
only person outside of the main partythat could see them. So I think
Rufus is going to be this likepivotal second half of the third game almost
I don't know if I want tosay he's playable. The Turks will be

(02:11:31):
playable in some way, but Ithink to Josh's point, earlier where you
know they're kind of going to fleshout the weapons attacking Midguar. I think
it's Cloud and everyone is doing theirstuff in Midgar. We're going to see
a secondary plot play out where Rufusis trying to like hold down the fort
in Midguar and trying to fend offthe weapons. While also I think he's

(02:11:52):
the third one with a master plan. I think there's the sephar Rov Plan,
the Earth plan, and the Rufus. What I'm not sure of is
if the going to give him thearc that he has going into Advent Children
where he kind of has a redemption. I think we could see a redemption
moment for Rufus where he's he's theone who kind of like puts the nail
in the coffin of the weapons anddoes that in order to let Cloud and

(02:12:16):
the others fighteth for us. Thoseare my thoughts. I get It's interesting
because I feel like, because theysaid that the developers have said that it
will line up with Advent Children leadinto it, and to me, you
know, I don't know how muchthey'll do redemption for Rufus in the third
one, but I felt like thescene where he meets with Avalanche and says,

(02:12:37):
oh, you know what, I'mnot you know, we can work
out a deal here to me,felt like hinting at that eventual advent Children
Redemption just a little bit. Yeah, it definitely feels like Rufus is going
to play a huge part in that. And I mean they isn't his name
isn't voice versus a roof like Rufusbackwards or whatever in Japanese. Also,

(02:13:01):
so that kind of gives uh thataway, and he it's it's interesting that
they decided to do that. LikeI wonder if Glenn is going to come
back and be like one of theremnants as well, Like are we gonna
is he gonna end up showing upagain like the actual Glenn or is seen
controlling them this entire time. There'ssome big theories too that Glenn is Cloud's

(02:13:24):
father. Oh God, please don't, please, yeah, please don't.
We don't need a Darth Vader moment, I don't think. But so what
is like what do you guys arehoping you want to see for the third
game? Like is there a regionthat you're really hoping to get to see?

(02:13:46):
Do you think it's gonna be kindof like more like Rebirth, where
we're gonna have world intel of allthese other regions or are they gonna try
to Okay, you can go backand do stuff with all these other places,
but it's gonna be more story drivenlike Remain. I think you'll have
a lot of stuff from the originalregions that we went to and Rebirth that
you can go back and do somestuff. They already have all the assets,

(02:14:09):
so it's easy to put a lotof stuff there. But yeah,
I do think I mean, there'snot a ton more, off the top
of my head, places that you'regoing to go visit for the very first
time, so you're only going tohave another handful of regions that they can
do kind of the same deal with. I mean, obviously Wu Tai could

(02:14:30):
be a really it's going to bea pivotal part of the game, and
you can do a region there,and obviously up North as well, and
of course Noboarding will be a hugepart of it. Med Deal will probably
have its own spot, So yeah, there's a few different spots. So
I really think that they're going tobasically do what they did with Rebirth,
expand each area and then just addstuff to the original areas because now obviously

(02:14:54):
your airplane is back and working fashionfor now, and you'll be able to
fly around to different places. Andyou already kind of had the ability to
go to a lot of different placesalready there at the end of Reburst.
So I don't, well, there'sa chance that they go back to the
remake way and go straight forward.I just don't see them going back to

(02:15:15):
that. I think they just continueto expand the world to create. They
definitely got to make it. Letus use the high wind, right,
we got to fly around. They'vealready said, yeah, they're trying to
figure out how to implement it.Yeah. Does anybody I feel like this
the weight may not be so long. I feel like it's not going to
take them four years to do this. We had COVID during that time that

(02:15:37):
slowed everything down immensely, like andthey have a lot of the world built
already. I mean, yes,they have to figure out stuff that high
when they got to do a bunchof other regions. What they're going to
do there. Does anybody think wecould definitely have this and say in three
so they can do the It's athirty year anniversary of Pop Fantasy seven here's
the third game. Yeah, I'msure, probably an internal goal that they'd

(02:16:01):
like to hit. I mean,yeah, I hope that it happens because
I don't really want to make thatlong, but you know, yeah,
speaking for everyone, I'm sure,But yeah, I don't know. I
mean, I guess it just dependstoo, because I know one thing they
said before Rebirth release was that HorizonForbidden West and its open world structure inspired
a lot of Rebirth. So Iguess, I don't know. I guess

(02:16:22):
it just depends on what their goalsare, like if they already have a
set vision for what they want theworld to be like in part three,
or if it's you know, ormaybe if something else comes along and they're
like, wow, this is good, let's change it to this, so
it's more like that. So Iguess it just depends, really, I
mean, but yeah, i'd besurprised if the internal possibility of this would
be fantastic. Mike Randy said,they a lot of a lot of that

(02:16:45):
third part is, you know,going back to previous areas. They could
reuse a lot of the assets fromRebirth. But again, you know,
I don't know how much they're expanding, you know, like, is Uti
going to be the biggest thing we'veever seen? I don't know, And
you know, again implementing the highwind, Like, it's tough to know

(02:17:05):
they could add a lot on,but I'm cautiously optimistic only because a lot
of the areas we've been to beforereturn in the third part. Man,
I had thought, and now wegot this, is there like something that
I definitely think we're we're getting allof these is do you think it's gonna

(02:17:26):
be kind of a similar thing likewe've had in the first two games,
where we're gonna get a lot ofthe same beats as the original seven and
then we're gonna blow it up atthe end, or you think they're gonna
have a lot more kind of interspersthis time. Hayes like, what do
you think? Yeah, I'm alittle more mixed on that with this one.
Things, you know, the flowof events was largely the same and

(02:17:48):
rebirth, but what they added onhas kind of set things up to be
pretty different. I think Wu Taiis kind of the deciding factor here,
because you know, it was entirelyoptional in the original game, and I
think Vincent is the other part ofthat. You know, all of Vincent's
story stuff was entirely optional. SoI think those two pieces are going to

(02:18:11):
be mandatory now, and I thinkthat will drastically change them. But I
think the key events from the originalgame are still going to be in.
It's just going to be a lotmore filled in around them. Yeah.
I think the way they've set upthe end with Rebirth and even a lot
of the world building from throughout Rebirth, I almost don't think it's possible to

(02:18:33):
stick rigidly to the original structure likethey did in Rebirth, because you know,
you've got all this talk almost everyregion around the world of those anti
shindn't revealing. Well, that's goodworld building. I hope it goes further.
They kind of make it seem likeit's going to go further, kind
of like integrate with the top woarBlutai. You've got Cloud equipping the Black
Materia at the end, which youknow seems like a pretty big deal.

(02:18:58):
To just kind of ignore that andtry and slip back into the regular stream
of events would be a bit jarring, So I think I think finally,
I think, well, I mean, it's kind of all trilogy structures,
and of course they're see what theywere planning all along. But I think
they've been building to something that's goingto be like since remake, I think
they've been building something that's going tobe more drastically different for more than just

(02:19:18):
If in part three, Scott,are you ready to play their just servers
again? Because I am all right, But we're definitely gonna see more deep
ground, right because they they hintedat them. You know, we got
to see them in intermission, andthen that's kind of a lot of you
know that you could tie in bothyou if he evinced the stories there too.

(02:19:41):
I mean, it'd be interesting tosee how they bring them back.
And are we going to see Glenn'sother cohorts that are supposedly with Avalanche.
You know, I felt like likewhat you were saying yesterday during the recording,
I feel like we definitely got tosee like Avalanche HQ and that kind
of thing in there as well somewhere. Any thoughts on what we're gonna what

(02:20:03):
you want to see or we couldsee in part three? I do think
that it's gonna be similar in thestructure of Rebirth, where most of the
plot points will be the same,but like every like chapter ending will be
slightly different. I just think they'regonna probably gonna make the chapter end the
more bombastic, so that it'll probablyjust be more stuff at the ending that's

(02:20:24):
gonna be a little side eyed orshifted, because that's kind of how like
Remake was initially two, where likethe end of chapters were slightly different or
slightly changed because the whispers when theywere introduced, and then the ending was
big. Rebirth had the same thing, but the chapter endings were also even
more so bigger because they had toinclude all the zact stuff at the end
of every chapter and then it gotanother bound basting. I think it's just

(02:20:46):
be the same way in that aspectof a lot of the plot points that
we do see will be like that, with the ending even be more blown
up. But I do think thatwe only have like like three new areas
that's gonna be showing up with themost of the rest of it's gonna be
retreading previous regions because like the Craterwe got, rocket Town we got is

(02:21:11):
that what it's called. Yeah,a lot of and they could add at
least in actual plot beats. Sothis is gonna have to have a lot
more added if it wants to bein the same kind of like timeline as
rebirth. Yeah, are they goingto have us go under water? By
the way, I genuinely don't knowhow they're going to fit everything into one

(02:21:35):
morning. Yeah, they fit alot into rebirth. Tell you that this
thing was going to be one hundredhours. So if I'm just very curious
what the side missions are going tobe to get knights around because chocob reading
is not a thing and this one, So what are they going to do

(02:21:58):
to have us go get that?Because that's going to be a big deal.
I feel like they know they haveto put Knights of the round.
Yeah, I think that that wouldbe a riot going on if they don't
put the material itself will be in. It's just how what are you going
to have to do to it?Canna be a more Chadley crap? And
I hope that when you use Nightsof the Round you have to sit through
another two minute long touch and thenthey all all twelve of them just surround

(02:22:24):
the arena. And because with theway they do Simmons, now you know
you simon them, they do theirthing and then they're just fighting with you.
I just want all twelve just allover the place. Sound like a
jet engine. I can see acase for Knights of the Round, is
like the secret Boss like Gashes.Yeah, that could. It would definitely
be something there, I agree.So what's the third one going to be?

(02:22:46):
Called? Course stole what I thoughtit was going to be? Whatever?
Yeah? Yeah, the one scenementioned the most is return Final Fantasy
Return. Yeah, I could,like we do Return would be a little
boring, Yeah, just because itis something that all the hooded men have

(02:23:07):
been saying, and it's something beensaying everyone's been saying, which I mean,
it would fit, But honestly,I would be a little disappointed of
them. I'm between two. Obviously, one is very close to what we
all thought it was going to be, but uh, reunite and instead of
reunion, just kind of go thatthat same route. Or Reclaim was another
one I've heard that I've kind ofreally been stuck on because ceph Roth's whole

(02:23:31):
idea is reclaiming the planet, andit seems like every single one of these
names has a hidden meeting in theactual game that that that we get.
So I'm leaning reclaims as my guess. But yeah, they kind of screwed
things up with the crisis for areunion deal because we we all thought that
was a lock for the third game. Yeah, they really they could just

(02:23:54):
dove, Yeah yeah, come outof left field and say it's Final Fantasy
seven Roach and it's actually just allabout Yes, that would be It's only
from the perspective of Roach. Wedon't have Cloud is not even in the
game. The Final Fantasy seven RescueRangers. I could I could definitely see

(02:24:20):
like redemption or something like that thatcould work. On the night was thinking
on was like restore a restoration justwith the whole restoring the planet kind of.
Yeah, yeah, that would bea good one. It's definitely got
to have Bree in the name,so it doesn't they'll be a riot.
Restoration would actually be perfect though,because it mean it fits so well with
Cloud and actually and being restored asCloud. That would yeah, that would

(02:24:45):
be perfect. Yeah. I mean, does anybody else have something they want
to say about this game we haven'ttalked about yet, or something they really
liked that you want to give ashout out to before we head out of
here here, I guess all thegreat stamp designs. Yeah, it's still
hilarious that they had that one momentof giving us a different stamp just to

(02:25:09):
have big stye, Like what ago ahead. I like that there's an
entire song dedicated to just the chasechasing dogs. Yeah, I was,
Oh, we didn't talk about,like listen the music in this game.

(02:25:33):
I mean, I'm gonna go tothe concert in Orlando whenever it comes here.
And I don't care which of thesongs they play. There's just there's
not a bad one. And thatlike, I love that they are able
to take just a regular song thatplays during it and then they somehow make
it to a battle theme and itall works, and it's like and then

(02:25:54):
they hold the note so I cango back to the regular theme again,
and like, man, it's sogood, almost seamless, all of it.
The way that they have this work. It just and then everybody has
a theme, Like there's a themefor every freaking little thing in this game,
and they really went over the topwith it. I just I love

(02:26:16):
that, just it's that whole dedicationto how much they love this game and
and everything on this anybody. Uh, I played an equality mode. I
didn't mess with performance, but Inever I don't actually remember what I played.
Another mention, whatever it starts infive years ago, I don't remember

(02:26:37):
now games since then, only twoon my end. Yeah, look,
this is a great game. Ithink it stands by itself. Uh,
they weren't kidding about that when theysaid you could play it by itself.
Well you understand I'm an iota ofhalf the stuff that's going on in this

(02:26:58):
game. Probably not, but youcan play it. So does anybody think
it works as a great like introductionto the entire Fall Fantasy? No?
Absolutely not. I'm so glad I'veplayed the original and I knew where all
this stuff was going on, becauseif I played Rebirth by itself, I'd
be absolutely lost and probably not haveenjoyed it as much as fandom please started.

(02:27:26):
Yeah all right, guys, Wellthank you so much everybody for being
on. I was worried when II was like, did I ask one
too many person to be on hereand then wind up working out great?
All you guys are awesome. Youknow, if you want to go ahead

(02:27:46):
and give a plug to what y'alldo here? Where we head out?
I guess starting with you Hayes,where can people find you? And all
that. Yeah, you can findme at soul Fleet on Twitter and Blue
Sky sol Fleet. Most of mywork is on Inverse. If you like
Final Fantasy seven Rebirth, I'm notquite une covering it yet, so keep

(02:28:07):
an eyeyet Josh. You can findme on Twitter at Finn the Brave.
It's fio In in the Brave.No funny spellings with those, and I'm
trying to be as many places aspossibly. You'll find most of my work
on Illustrated with through g LHF.But yeah, I've also I'll be around,
so keep an eye out. Scott. Alrighty, so I'm sid Scott

(02:28:31):
pretty much everywhere Twitter, Facebook andthe like. You can find most of
the stuff that I write on theouter Haven dot net. Just did uh
Scott just did a previewear Blade.Yes, they are looking forward to that.
And Hayes has been doing a tonof stuff on Dragons Stop with two,
so go check that out. Andrew, they will find you. Yeah,

(02:28:54):
you can find me at Andrew UnderscoreAgris on Twitter. Also Andrew abras
dot com is New Things Finally thereas well. And yeah, I do
most of my writing for the OuterHaven covered a ton of rebirth stuff and
I think still a couple more thingsin the work and the works, So

(02:29:18):
yeah, Realdy, most of mywriting now has more sports stuff. But
as far as the nearly stuff,you can look me up on bad Brackets,
the new show we started a coupleof months ago where I torture three
innocent souls. As far as theridiculous brackets that I put together over certain
topics, it's over everything. BestWrestleManias was the one that just came out

(02:29:41):
yesterday. I'm about to record BestGolf Courses that'll come out next week.
And then Sean Scott and Andrew werewith me yesterday. We recorded Best Final
Fantasy Games yesterday. It'll come outApril fifteenth is when that episode will dropped.
So we hit every single kind oftop you can imagine. The whole

(02:30:01):
point is I come up with thebracket that at some point somebody cusses at
you. That's my that's my goal, and if you want more fancy,
it's coming pretty soon. We gotthat Rising Tide DLC on the eighteenth,
so there go back to go backfor being a party to just playing his
Clive and get to hear Ben Starbe amazing again. So until you know

(02:30:24):
the next time, I will havea regular episode of Video Games for the
Max with my regular co host Markon Fridays. We usually do it live
and then it'll be out on podcasts. Thank you all you guys for joining
me here. This was fun andhopefully we can I'll have you all on
again another time. Bye, everybody, thanks for having us. Thank you

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