October 20, 2023 • 62 mins
Welcome back to the campfire, friends! We’re nearing the end of the season, but there are plenty of cases coming your way.
Don’t forget! Patreon is live. Use this link to find our page and join us for WTF Wednesdays.
https://www.patreon.com/WhatHappensintheWoodsPodcast568
Our 4th annual Halloween collaboration with the wonderful and talented ladies of Crimes & Closets with kick off on Friday, October 27th here on our feed. Make sure you are following them so you don’t miss out on the episode we release on their podcast on Monday, October 30th.
The case this episode is an unsolved disappearance from the 1990s. 3 year old Lenoria Jones has been missing for over 25 years. After a trip to Target to shop for a bathing suit, 911 was called to say the little girl was no where to be seen. Some one knows what happened but no one is speaking up.
Information from this episode
https://original.newsbreak.com/@fatim-hemraj-561392/2989135776030-in-1995-a-woman-said-she-lost-her-3-year-old-in-a-store-but-according-to-cctv-footage-she-came-alone?_f=app_share&s=a3&share_destination_id=MTYyMjcwODQzLTE2OTc2ODUwODA2ODg=&pd=0Ays3fyU&hl=en_US&send_time=1697685080&actBtn=floatShareButton&trans_data=%7B%22platform%22%3A1%2C%22cv%22%3A%2223.41.0%22%2C%22languages%22%3A%22en%22%7D
https://original.newsbreak.com/@fatim-hemraj-561392/2989135776030-in-1995-a-woman-said-she-lost-her-3-year-old-in-a-store-but-according-to-cctv-footage-she-came-alone
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/lwg0f0/three_year_old_lenoria_jones_was_last_seen/
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/cold-case-lenoria-jones-missing-mother-continues-search-for-3-year-old-daughter
http://www.tpcrimestoppers.com/case.php?id=393
Don’t forget! Patreon is live. Use this link to find our page and join us for WTF Wednesdays.
https://www.patreon.com/WhatHappensintheWoodsPodcast568
Our 4th annual Halloween collaboration with the wonderful and talented ladies of Crimes & Closets with kick off on Friday, October 27th here on our feed. Make sure you are following them so you don’t miss out on the episode we release on their podcast on Monday, October 30th.
The case this episode is an unsolved disappearance from the 1990s. 3 year old Lenoria Jones has been missing for over 25 years. After a trip to Target to shop for a bathing suit, 911 was called to say the little girl was no where to be seen. Some one knows what happened but no one is speaking up.
Information from this episode
https://original.newsbreak.com/@fatim-hemraj-561392/2989135776030-in-1995-a-woman-said-she-lost-her-3-year-old-in-a-store-but-according-to-cctv-footage-she-came-alone?_f=app_share&s=a3&share_destination_id=MTYyMjcwODQzLTE2OTc2ODUwODA2ODg=&pd=0Ays3fyU&hl=en_US&send_time=1697685080&actBtn=floatShareButton&trans_data=%7B%22platform%22%3A1%2C%22cv%22%3A%2223.41.0%22%2C%22languages%22%3A%22en%22%7D
https://original.newsbreak.com/@fatim-hemraj-561392/2989135776030-in-1995-a-woman-said-she-lost-her-3-year-old-in-a-store-but-according-to-cctv-footage-she-came-alone
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/lwg0f0/three_year_old_lenoria_jones_was_last_seen/
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/cold-case-lenoria-jones-missing-mother-continues-search-for-3-year-old-daughter
http://www.tpcrimestoppers.com/case.php?id=393
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
What Happens in the Woods is atrue crime podcast. We discuss events that
are often violent in nature. Listenersdiscretion is advised. Well, hello and
(00:33):
welcome back. We're here with anew episode. We're almost nearing the end
of our sixth season. It's awild ride this year. Hi, Hi,
Brice, Hi, I'm preempting you. Okay, hi, hi,
Hi. Hello, hehorry, goahead and finish now, you don't want
(00:53):
me to finish? All right,got a little sugar in your system?
I see. We're nearing the endour sixth season. Yes, almost almost.
There's after this three episodes. Okay, okay, if you say so,
you're the boss. I you know, I'm not sure anymore. I
(01:15):
don't know. This is not aWTF you're the boss? Okay, okay.
You may may hear some other laughingin the background. So we have
Maara joining us for this episode.Hello, everybody, Hello maraa Hi.
You couldn't get enough. You hadto come come join us for this.
(01:40):
Yes, yeah, she has tomake her presence known. I have to
pop in and out every once ina while, just to stay relevant,
you know, just add my laughter. That's what I feel like. I
contribute the most is just laughing inthe background for your dad, so he
(02:00):
feels like he's being heard. No, I just feel like when I'm in
an episode or something. Yeah,most of it is just laughing or something
in the background. I don't know. I mean, laughter is good unless
we're talking about somebody dying. Yeah, it's not good. That's not good.
It's no good. All right,Bryce, you have any updates announcements?
(02:27):
Yeah, okay, do tell Englandis in the lead? Oh yeah,
yes, hello from across the pond. Well, hello, my ancestors,
my people, and then uh,just interesting. You know in the
(02:49):
United States, who's number two?Florida, Texas, Oh yeah, Washington,
Texas, Oregon, California, Hello, Utah, m Hello, Maryland
m h in Virginia hmmm. AndIllinois and well oh wow Florida. Hello.
(03:15):
Are we going to need to geta map? We have one?
We do? Where is said mapright here for the people who can't see?
Oh? Oh no, I don'tknow. Maybe we could do that,
let us know. Yeah, doyou want a heat map? And
(03:37):
I maybe we should. There's stillmuch of the US that has been untapped.
I thought you were saying, likea map on the wall or like
on the fridge. I mean Ikind of was like the states I visited,
except for right. Oh, Iguess we could have a w H
(03:57):
I t W hot hot map.I just but your dad, I'll like
he thinks in terms of electronics.I think of terms in something tangible that
I can like touch and look at. And so we need to acquire a
sixty five inch TV that goes onthe wall here that I could display like
real time. Yeah. Of uhhuh, I thought you were making that
(04:20):
happen. I've already green lighted that. Oh, I'm just waiting for the
accountant accounting department to write me thecheck. Hmm, that wasn't discussed.
Oh see, darn. Yeah.Maybe maybe Santa will be nice to us.
(04:42):
Maybe you never know, you neverknow. I've been good this year.
I don't know about you. I'vebeen reasonably good within there's flexibility in
that definition. Okay, okay,well we'll see. Then. I just
(05:06):
have to reiterate some things. Idon't know if you've heard our very first
episode and just adamantly put out therethat and this is for the one person
on YouTube, but like, like, if you don't like us the way
we talk and what we talk aboutthis is probably not the podcast for you,
(05:27):
so fuck off. Oh, Imean that's kind of true though.
What did somebody say on YouTube?No, they're always like stop talking and
just get to the case. Like, funk off. People want to hear
us. We talk amongst ourselves,you know, we try to make it
personal and we tell everyone about ourlives. I don't think they are going
(05:48):
on so I'm just a little heatedright now. Yeah, we had a
we had a door dash incident.I mean, here's the thing, this
is not a singular person podcast.If you only want to hear somebody,
you know, get right into astory and and just you know, never
(06:13):
have any person not saying no becausesome of them do have personality, but
not have any personal reflection or anyyou know, you are not looking for
a podcast that has multiple people init because to do it that way,
you're not pinging off of somebody else. You're not bouncing ideas and thoughts off
(06:35):
of somebody else. You are solelygiving the story, giving the facts,
and maybe giving some of your opinionin that. If you are in a
group podcast setting ideas and thoughts andand you know your perspective on things,
that's going to be shared. Soif if you don't like that, then
(06:58):
I don't know why you're here.I you know, I appreciate if you
want to listen because you're interested inthe story, then kindly fast forward go
to where we you know, stoptalking about it. Every bit of media
and device and everything you can fastforward through, and that is okay.
(07:18):
I'm my feelings are not hurt.I don't care. If you're only here
for the story, then just fastforward till you hear the story. And
that's like it that just do itor go away. Yeah. Well,
I also feel like the whole basisof how the podcast was formed from the
(07:38):
beginning was that you find a storyand then you tell Dad and get Dad's
reaction, Like Dad doesn't know thestories beforehand. That's the whole kind of
what it was from the beginning,right, Like I don't know the story
right now that you're about to say, So it's kind of based on reaction
and playing off each other like yousaid, right, which I think brings
(08:01):
it different like it does. Itdoes bring a different vibe, And there
is a reason why we are doingit that way exactly, you know,
because otherwise I could just sit hereand relay the information. So I I
can appreciate that that most people don'tlike the banter or some people don't like
(08:24):
the banter, and I don't care. That's fine. But until you start
your own podcast or your own YouTubevideos or whatever you want to do,
and you, you know, gothrough your creative process, then it's really
you have choices, I guess,is what I'm saying. You have choices
(08:46):
and what you want to listen to. If we don't do it for you,
then kindly just go on by.You're not hurting my feelings. Like
I'm not here to make friends.I guess I don't know. I'm here
to put out a podcast, right. I mean, if you want to
hear about the story, just fastforward to the story. That's all you
gotta do. Sorry, I wasin a joker mood. No I watch
(09:07):
everything burn. Oh my gosh,I'm just kidding. But to everybody else,
welcome to the campfire. Yes,everybody is welcome. Everybody is and
everyone's very supportive and I love thatabout this community. And welcome to the
campfire. Yeah, I mean,I'm not telling anybody not to come.
(09:28):
Everybody is welcome, and we saythat all the time. I am just
saying, if we are not foryou, you don't need to make comments
about you don't want to hear ustalk, then you can leave. That's
You're free to come, You're freeto leave. You know, That's just
that's life. I think that socialmedia makes people very brave to say things,
(09:56):
and everybody wants to add their twocents. And yes, we live
in a world where you know,we live in a country where freedom of
speech is often taken for granted,and this is a way that you can
use your free speech. It alsois not productive. I don't know what
(10:16):
the point is to come on theYouTube and be like, shut the hell
up and get to the story.Shut the hell up and fast forward.
Same goes for you. So movingon. Yeah, I'm not going to
turn the podcast into a bitch fest. I'm off my soapbox now. Okay,
(10:37):
Well, do you have any otherupdates? Fucked or dash? All
right? Other updates? Okay,all right, Well I do have a
couple of announcements. So Patreon,which is the new home for the WTF
series, that's up and going aftermany issues. We were on vacation and
(10:58):
we're trying to resolve things from Alaskaand I just had no idea that Patreon
was going to be an issue.I don't know that make it seem so
easy. So there is a linkthat I shared on social media that will
take you directly to our page andwe'll get the website updated the link tree
(11:20):
updated as well. For some reason, though, we are in like super
secrets by stealth mode on Patreon andyou cannot find us if you try to
search for us, and I haveyet to have Patreon explained to me how
to fix it or why that happened, so it's a little frustrating. But
(11:43):
if you follow the link, youshould be good. So right now,
it's three dollars a month for WTFreleases, which are there's two of them
per month that we're going to beputting out, and there might be some
extras in the future. I don'tknow. But I wanted to say a
huge thank you to to Christy andDana, who are the first two patrons
(12:03):
to sign up, So thank youso much. Ladies. Definitely know your
tribe, like I feel like weare supported and we know our people,
so I'm always appreciative and I'm humbledwhen people reach out and they are like,
(12:26):
you know, they are genuinely engagedin what we're doing. So it
is time for Halloween, right andyou know, if you know, you
know, we always do our Halloweencollab with Crimes and Closets, our podcast
besties. This is the fourth yearthat we are going to be doing this
(12:50):
these special episodes, and we've switchedup a little bit. We've changed a
couple of things. We have atheme this year that I think is going
to be I thought it was apretty cool idea. Beth came up with
it and we all immediately were like, yep, that's it done. Deal,
let's move on. So we aregoing to drop the first episode on
(13:13):
Friday, October twenty seventh, withChristy joining me on our feed, and
then Bryce and Beth the Killer Beesare going to be on Crimes and Closets
feed on Monday, October thirtieth,So make sure that you are following Christy
and Beth in Crimes and Closets ifyou aren't already, you're not going to
(13:35):
want to miss either of those episodes. So pretty awesome. We just recorded
them this last weekend and had alot of fun as usual. That's all
I got, Mari, you haveany updates? I do. I'm sure.
Oh, I have an update.Okay, just so you guys know,
(13:56):
I don't know if you've said thisyet, but it is your birth
month or stop it? Go sayhappy birthday to mom on the twenty eighth.
No, October twenty eighth. Yourdad is always so agitated when I
talk about my birth month. Birthmonth is banned. It kind of is.
(14:18):
And then and then he's like,what do you want? Do you
what do you want? Okay,but you haven't said anything that you want,
because you know what, I'm tooold at this point. I don't
I don't want your mom. Okay, yeah, you are the mother.
I am the mother. I don'tknow what I need or want. I
(14:41):
don't know. Okay, all right, are you ready to get into this
case? Yes? Updating? Yes, okay. It is my birth month
though, so I never have toupdates. Well that was a good one,
thank you. I love them.All right, So this case that
(15:03):
we're going to talk about today istwisty, a little twisty, turney a
little. I don't know. Idon't There's going to be a lot to
discuss. I think I have adisappearance to discuss for today's episode. And
this took place just down the roadfrom US in Tacoma, Washington. And
(15:24):
just a little spoiler, this remainsunsolved, and it's very frustrating because I
think it could easily be solved,but we are so far removed now that
I don't think we're ever going toget an answer. On the morning of
July twentieth, nineteen ninety five,a nine to one one call came in
(15:45):
to dispatch from a target payphone atnine fifty two am. He has a
payphone? What's a payphone? Yougotta explain it for our younger. I
think everybody knows what a payphone is. And how much would you have to
pay for? Said in nineteen ninetyfive, probably a quarter? Okay,
okay, quarter? Thirty five cents? I don't I don't remember. I
(16:07):
know I was in high school whenit went to thirty five cents. Could
I use Apple Pay? Absolutely not? Okay, Sorry, okay, do
go on. You had to havechange, okay. So a woman claimed
that her daughter was missing. Sheseemed a little confused, and the nine
(16:30):
to one to one operator had ahard time getting direct information from the caller.
The woman was then forty five yearold Berlin Williams. The little girl
who was reported missing was three yearold Lenoria Jones LANORIAH Sorry, were they
related? Yes? Okay, soLeanoria was actually Berlin's great niece, not
(16:51):
daughter, but she had legal custodyof her at the time. Oh,
okay, I was wondering, Yeah, great niece. That's like a weird
great niece. Yeah. So herBerlin's brother was the grandfather. Okay,
(17:12):
So Berlin was in the process ofadopting Lenoria, and it actually was just
like hinding the documents being sent out, so by by all rights it had
kind of been formalized. So thegrandparents had also been trying to get custody.
(17:32):
They resided in Spokane, where Ibelieve Leonoria was born, but custody
did end up being granted to Berlin. Lenoria's mom had given up parental rights
after birth, and her father wasnever named, never came forward either during
(17:52):
the request for custody. They youknow, they have to post that in
news papers. They used to.I don't know if they what they do
now because there's really no newspapers.They used to have to post for a
certain amount of days consecutively to havepeople come forward if they contested things,
(18:17):
so the gentleman never came forward.Lenoria was born on January third, nineteen
ninety two, to Dedra Jones.Her mom was not in a good position
in her life to care for thebaby, and Lenoria was found to have
cocaine in her system at birth.She so Deidra was facing drug charges and
(18:40):
jail time prior to Lenoria's birth,so at birth parental rights were terminated and
she became a ward of the state. Dedra states that she asked her aunt,
Berlin, to take Lanoria so thatshe would be in a safe place.
So Berlin had four children of herown that ranged in age from to
(19:00):
adult. She also ran a licensedday care out of her home in Tacoma.
Leonoria did get passed around to severalfamily members, including her grandparents,
her maternal grandparents, and I believetwo aunts, but eventually Berlin was granted
custody, so she did move innineteen ninety four July of nineteen ninety four
(19:23):
to live with Berlin in Tacoma.Something that has been discussed and seems to
be a little controversial, is thatdue to the circumstances of her birth,
Leonoria was diagnosed as having ADHD almostlike immediately she was put on medication at
an extremely young age. And itseems to me that this was common in
(19:48):
the nineties from what I understand.So the War on drugs, of course,
was in its prime. And theterm crack baby, I know,
we've all heard it said, itused it. It was frequently used to
describe children born to parents who hadused cocaine and that were addicted to cocaine
at birth. Usually these children exhibitedhealth issues or developmental delays. And at
(20:12):
this time, you know, therewas some data, but there wasn't a
whole lot of research yet that washelpful in developing like a plan of care
for these children, you know,who were born in these unfortunate circumstances.
Most doctors did like the least involvedthing, and they prescribed medication to assist
(20:33):
with any behavioral or learning issues.At the time, there just wasn't really
I don't think there was an understandingof how medication in itself is not bad.
But that seemed to be the answerin the nineties was, oh,
we have all these new medications,let's just show yeah, throw an at
you and hope it helps. That'sjust really sad, because a small child
(21:00):
on whatever type of medication this wouldhave been while they're still developing, right,
I could probably be more harmful thanhelpful, I would think. But
well, and there's no way ofknowing what was this even needed? Yeah,
how do you? Because from whatI read, ADHD is typically not
(21:22):
diagnosed until around the age of seven. Well, and it depends on girls
too, because girls exhibit differently,Right, But also, I just how
do you just like prescribe like atwo year old medication for ADHD? I
don't know, right, And that'snot to say that that wouldn't have been
(21:42):
her diagnosis. I have no idea. I mean, it's not like I've
looked at medical records and I'm atrained professional, But there has been a
lot of discussion about how young shewas to be on this type of medication,
and that kind of presents its ownissues. And I'll kind of get
(22:03):
into that and a little bit later. So Lenoria had been with her great
aunt for about a year at thispoint. She was healthy and happy.
From all accounts. Deidre had movedto Arkansas where there was other family members
that lived, and she kind ofskipped out on she served her jail time,
(22:26):
but she kind of skipped out onthe parole, I guess, and
moved out of state. So shewas living in Spokane at the time and
moved down to Arkansas. She wouldthough, keep in contact with Leonoria by
phone and you know the family membersthat had Leonora until she went to live
(22:47):
with Berlin, and then she continuedbeing in contact by phone. She had
actually attempted to call her daughter twodays prior to Lenora being reported as missing.
At that time, though she wastold by Berlin that she could not
speak with Leonoria that day. Thereis not a mention of why or a
reason given why. As I mentioned, Erlin called nine one one that morning
(23:10):
in July to report Lenoria was lost. I could not find any audio of
the call, even though it issaid that it was released a year after
her disappearance. There is a smallsnip that I heard that was in a
news report that is mostly voiced over. So I was able to find a
(23:33):
transcript of the beginning of the call. So what I could find? So
the nine one one operator answers,of course and says nine one one police
fire or medical aid. It statesthat Berlin responded, yes, I'm calling
to see how long is it?I mean I just I just missed my
daughter. She's three years old,and I I'm here in the grocery store.
(23:59):
I was walking around trying to findher, but I haven't seen her
yet. So she seems maybe alittle bit confused. Yeah. The operator
says, okay, you lost yourdaughter. She responds yes. They ask
what grocery store? Madam. Ma'amBerlin says, huh, I've been at
Target. The operator says, soyou're at Target and not Top Foods.
(24:21):
Now. I don't know how theyknow where they're at. I'm thinking the
payphone had a location and it wasmaybe not inside Target, it was outside
of Target. There was a grocerystore right next to Target that was called
Top Foods. So she said grocerystore when I mean when she called and
she said, I'm here at thegrocery store. So Brilein answers, no,
(24:44):
I'm not at Top Foods. I'mat Target right now. And the
operator says, okay, well,you said grocery store. That's why I
want to verify. How long agodid you last see her? Brillian answers,
I think just a few minutes.The operator asked, well, how
long, ma'am Arlene says about aboutabout fifteen ten or fifteen minutes, the
(25:06):
operator answers, okay inside Target.Berlin says yes. So after that,
of course police respond. The officerscome and it's not long, you know,
after the call. They come in, they find Berlin. They are
attempting to get the information from herregarding you know, when was the last
(25:29):
time you saw her, where wereyou at in the store? Did you
you know, were there any issues? And they are asking her, you
know, can you retrace your steps? So Berlin states that Lenoria must have
wandered off while the two were lookingat swimsuits. Police say okay. Then
(25:55):
they decide that they are going torequest the video footage from inside of the
Target shopping area, and Target givesthem all of that. They don't have
time to review it at that time, but as they are questioning Berlin even
more, she then starts to changeher story. So she tells them that
(26:19):
she had gone to a car wash, then they did go to the grocery
store, then they came into Target. She says that while out in the
car, she she got Lenoria outof the car. They're walking into the
store and Lanoria says, can welook at toys? Berlin told her,
(26:44):
we need to look at swimsuits first, but then we can look at getting
you a toy. She says thatshe had Leonoria walking behind her into the
store. She heard Leonoria say okay, and then she proceeded to go to
the swimsuit aisle and look at swimsuits. She turned around realized that Lenoria was
(27:07):
not with her. So at thispoint police take that information, They get
the surveillance videos, and people arestill looking. There are the store employees
that are looking. There are policethat are they're looking in Target, they're
looking in the grocery store next door. They start to go and look at
the other places that she went thismorning, and there's no sign of this
(27:33):
little girl anywhere that anybody can find. So it was the next day when
investigators reviewing the tapes realized that there'san issue with the story. Leonoria never
entered Target. Really, really,she is not seen, and they have
clear footage of Berlin walking in thestore, going to get a car,
(28:00):
art to shop, and walking outof you know that area of footage into
the next area of footage where Imean. Target is well known for their
surveillance even in the nineties, wellknown for their surveillance and their like their
parking lots, even they've always hadsurveillance. Yeah, so there's no Lenoria
(28:25):
on any of this footage nowhere inthe store. So they bring in Berlin
to question her about really what's goingon, and they had her there for
ten hours. During this ten hourshe gave many conflicting statements. When they
(28:47):
presented the evidence to her that thesurveillance footage did not show Leonoria entering the
store, she simply answers, well, maybe she wasn't with me. Maybe
he means yes. So she alsostates that after stopping at this convenience store
and getting gas and going through acar wash, they went into the top
(29:12):
Foods grocery store. Maybe at somepoint they got she lost her there.
Then she also says that that's actuallynot what happened at all, that she
was abducted in the alley behind herhome that morning by two armed black men
(29:33):
what and she doesn't know where Lenoriais. Investigators start talking to other family
members. So the four family membersthat live in the home with Berlin and
Lenoria, and it is said byone of her daughters, both of which
so she has three daughters. They'reall late teens and almost adult age.
(29:57):
Two of them. One says thatshe saw Lenoria that morning at six am,
and then there was another one thatconfirmed that Berlin had left home with
Lenoria at about eight am. Shealso then states that that morning at about
eight forty seven, which is avery precise time to give to somebody when
(30:22):
questioned. So eight forty seven thatmorning, Berlin had called and talked to
this daughter and told the daughter thatLenoria was missing. At that time,
that is a full hour before shecalled nine to one one. So there's
a lot of speculation that maybe thetime was confused. Maybe she had called
(30:48):
the daughter at nine forty seven andthat was right before she called nine one
one. Maybe maybe the daughter's confused. Maybe Berlin's confused. I'm confused exactly.
Yeah. So, while Berlin isbeing questioned and there's a lot of
(31:10):
misdirected information given going back and forth, there was approximately one hundred people that
participated in a search and rescue effort, canvassing the area, retracing any of
the area where Berlin and Lenoria wereknown to have gone. There was again
no there was just no evidence ofwhere Lenoria was or how she would have
(31:34):
gotten someplace, so Berlin was eventuallyreleased. She was called again the next
day for some more questioning. Thistime though she had lawyered up, so
her lawyer stated that she would notbe coming in and discussing anything. They
had asked that she take a polygraphtest. She said no. So they
(31:57):
are left with conflicting statements. Nothingis lining up, nothing is making sense,
and the police actually state that thepolice believe that she is withholding information.
There is a quote from investigator thatquote, she gets to a point
she wants to tell us, andthen she stops. We need something else
(32:19):
to go on. We need tofind someone who saw her leave the house.
We're waiting for her to come upwith the truth. End quote.
So the last time that Lenoria couldactually physically be put anywhere was four days
prior at church. That's a biggap. It is although you do think
for a three year old they're notnecessarily going to school. She ran a
(32:43):
daycare, so she wouldn't necessarily leavethe house or be seen anywhere. And
then you do have the report fromDeirdre, her mom, saying that she
called two days prior on the eighteenthand was told no, you can't talk
to her. Are they saying,like the last time anyone outside of the
family saw her was at church,Yeah, a few days prior so,
(33:06):
but the one daughter had said shesaw Lenoria that morning at like six or
six thirty when she woke up,and that the other daughter saw her leave
with Berlin around eight am. Sothey do go and talk to the gas
station attendant, and the gas stationattendant recalls that there was nobody else in
the van with Berlin. I donot know how good of a view of
(33:30):
the van that this person had.It is not stated were they on video,
were you know, did she comein from getting gas or going through
the car wash? Did she haveto interact with somebody? There's not really
don't. I don't believe that therewas enough information released on that, and
that probably is for good reason.But it is released that that person who
(33:54):
was working at that time states thatshe did not have anybody else in the
van with her when she was there. This is so strange. I was
thinking like maybe that Berlin is notof sound mind, but it kind of
sounds like she is, so thatthat is kind of Yeah, that's one
(34:15):
of the theories that I'll kind ofget into. So police are left with
more questions than they have answers dueto all the conflicting information and the lack
of substantial information the investigators are gettingfrom Berlin. Her license was suspended for
(34:37):
the daycare. She up until thistime, had not had any major violations,
no previous criminal history. In allof the inspections, there was just
some regular, you know, discrepancies, things that you would find in a
(34:59):
normal you know, reports of goingto the daycare. So I read that
there was, you know, areport of like lack of emergency procedures for
evacuations if they were needed, thattype of thing, which are correctable and
they're not going to lead to thedaycare being shut down. So she did
(35:21):
not have a previous history of anyissues with the daycare, She had no
criminal history, but they were attemptingto put her in a place I think
where she felt intimidated and that shewould have to answer for things, and
it led to her being also puton house arrest. Oh my gosh.
(35:45):
The most that they got out ofBerlin was that after I think I think
maybe in her mind, once sherealized or or she could not give a
good enough answer as to how orwhen Lenoria disappeared Her story then was the
(36:07):
two men that attacked her in thealley and took Lenoria and from there.
She said that she knew where Lenoriawas and that she was safe, but
she could not give any details.What. Yeah, so why would you
call nine one one? Well,I don't know how you go to the
gas station and then the grocery storeand then target after you've been attacked in
(36:30):
your alley of your home and yourchild essentially taken from you. I'm just
chilling gonna make a target run,right, I mean, I Target's pretty
awesome, but that's not going tobe my concern. I mean, you
could be in shock, but Idon't think that's the situation here at all.
(36:51):
It's just it's confusing. So investigatorshad a really hard time, so
out of safety concerns, they didhave the daycare shut down. She was
placed on house arrest and police wentthrough the weekend. They contacted the family
and Spokane So Leonoria's grandparents, anyother family members that were living in that
(37:14):
area. They were all asked ofto verify their whereabouts and provide any information
if they had any regarding Lenoria andthe last time they had seen her,
as well as if they had anyunderstanding of what Berlin might be trying to
do. I mean, essentially,they were asking, do you think that
(37:37):
Berlin would harm her? Do youthink that Berlin would you be covering up
for somebody? Is there anything thatwe should know? And nobody had any
answers. They had not seen Lenoria, they had not heard from Berlin.
There were no issues as far asthey knew. They also contacted her mom,
(38:00):
Deirdre, in Arkansas and the familythat was living down there. They
were all cleared. They did notbelieve that those family members had any connection
to what was happening in Dacoma andthat they did not have Lenoria. So
it was very frustrating. There wereno answers and the people who could give
(38:20):
answers were not talking. So Sundayevening, July twenty third, the family
spoke publicly for the first time.Berlin did not speak, However, one
of her daughters did speak, andthey gave a press conference. It was
televised. They said nothing. Essentially, they claimed publicly at this time that
(38:45):
Lenoria had been abducted. They alsosaid that they continue to ask the questions
of where Lenoria was, and theyhad no answers. Either the story has
changed into many times. For me, it really is changing a lot of
times. They stated that Berlin wasoverwhelmed and that her time of you know,
(39:09):
the ten hours of questioning that theinvestigators had with her left her extremely
nervous. They did claim that asa black woman, it was it was
extremely you know, hard for herto be under fire from police questioning.
And and I can understand that wherethey lived in Tacoma was the Hilltop area
(39:35):
where the crips and the Army Rangershad their gunfight. I don't remember.
That's because you told that story.She actually lived not far from where that
that was. So the community atthat time was it was a very strained
relationship with the police. With lawenforcement. Can see even to this day,
(40:00):
I can see where a person ofcolor involving police in any way,
in anything, it would be thelast thing they want to do. In
a lot of areas. It's Ialso can reasonably understand why she might have
delayed calling if that's the case,And I can understand that she might after
(40:24):
having spent ten hours being investigating interrogated. Essentially, who knows how that went.
I don't know. There's no statements, there's I couldn't find any recordings
of it. I couldn't find anyaudio, I couldn't find any video of
that interrogation. I can understand theirclaim of her being frustrated or flustered and
(40:46):
nervous and anxious about the whole proceedingsof that. I can't understand that.
Yeah, However, that still doesn'tchange the fact that she did have a
lawyer that could have been present withher, because the lawyer is the one
that called and said that she wouldnot be doing the polygraph. That also
(41:08):
does not explain away how many storiesshe gave and where Lenoria is. Yeah,
it doesn't. It just doesn't.So that's basically their press conference.
They claim that they are just asconfused and frustrated and upset as everybody else,
(41:31):
and they took no questions. Theydid not publicly speak again. On
July twenty fourth, Berlin was interviewedanother time. So this would be the
third time by Tacoma police. Andat this point they've had many different versions
(41:52):
of the story and they are basicallybeing told the same thing. There is
not a new thing that she givesto them. She is sticking to the
story of the two men that youknow got into the alley behind her home
and abducted Lanoria and Merlin. Then, on Tuesday to twenty fifth, publicly
(42:14):
says I did not have anything todo with Lenoria's disappearance. I stand like
any other mother missing my child.She reiterated that she had made you know,
she knew that she had made veryconfusing statements to the police, but
that she was nervous and dealing withthe police. She claims that that is
(42:34):
what led her to so many conflictingstories, and then she said that the
police are focusing on her instead ofspending time focusing on Lenoria. But you're
making it so hard to like you'regetting in your own way in this situation.
Like I completely understand being nervous andall that, but changing your story
so many times and just getting inthe way of them doing their job,
(42:59):
right bottom line, like hello,right right. Unfortunately, this is really
where it stands. So there havebeen many, many different ways that investigators
have gone about looking at this,and there's no answers. So Lenoria is
(43:24):
missing, presumed dead. Deidre hasno answers. She's been looking for answers
for the last decades. However,many decades. It's twenty almost what thirty
years forty years or she would belike thirty something years old. Yeah,
So there are no answers to this, and it's it's very frustrating for I
(43:50):
think investigators because they do believe thatif the one person Berlin could have been
forthcoming at the very beginning, theycould have searched in the right places yew.
If something did happen to her,they could have found that out with
the right information. So at onepoint there was a tip that had been
(44:15):
called in anonymously and the person thatcalled in did have relevant information that was
not released to the public. Sounfortunately though they only got a recorded message
from what I can under like whatI can gather in everything, nobody actually
(44:36):
spoke to this person and they didnot leave a phone number or any way
to contact them. So authorities arestill putting this out there. I have
seen even recent news reports and articlesfrom earlier this year where Deirdre has reached
out and is asking for assistance fromthe community, anybody who might know,
(44:59):
but in specifically are mentioning this oneperson that called in that had details that
were not released to the public.They would like to speak to this person
again and it is something that theythink could break the case wide open,
and they've been wanting to hear fromthis person for the last thirty years,
(45:21):
forty years. Whether that person isgoing to be able to give them any
information, I don't know, butthat's what the investigators feel. So some
of the theories are that, well, the first one that I think is
very likely. It's it's very sad, but just about a week prior to
(45:42):
the disappearance, Lenoria had been puton a medication that would help her sleep.
Berleian claimed that she was having problemssleeping, and this is not an
uncommon thing with children who have lifeare born with a drug addiction, or
have ADHD, sleeping is an issue. So the pediatrician had claimed that it
(46:09):
was experimental to put a child thisyoung on this medication. Then don't do
it it. Yeah, I guesswe're not surprised, but he did prescribe
it. It is disappointing, buthe did describe it or prescribe it to
(46:32):
her. So she had been onthis medication for a week prior to her
disappearance, and one of the theoriesis that there was an accidental overdose.
Apparently it was a quite common thingwith this medication, that overdose could happen
very easily. So it is assumedin this theory that she overdosed on this
(46:55):
medication which is called norpramin norprimine norprimine, it's actually an antidepressant. And
the likelihood is that she could haveeasily been given too much or gotten into
the pill bottle herself and overdosed accidentally. And this made Berlin panic. She
(47:21):
was maybe concerned about what this wouldmean for her family, for her daycare,
that was her livelihood. She wasa single mother. And while it
was an accident, you know,leonoria was disposed of. Essentially, that's
a theory. That's a theory.Yeah, that is there's no way of
knowing their Leanoria has never been foundand the family is not talking. So
(47:46):
even from what I saw, soshe was given the smallest dose, which
was ten milligrams one hundred and fiftymilligrams, so fifteen pills would put like
would lead to serious issues. Thirtypills would likely lead to death. So
if she had been given a month'ssupply, she easily if somebody had overdosed
(48:13):
her would have been very very sick, if not dead. The other interesting
I guess theory was kind of whatyou said, Maria, where she was
maybe having some sort of mental crisis. Yeah, So there was a lot
of discussion about her possibly having hada stroke or a seizure that morning,
(48:37):
and that led to a lot ofher confusion on where she was and where
she last saw Lenoria. Yeah.Possibly Leonoria was taken when they were at
the gas station. Possibly she wastaken while they were at the grocery store.
Possibly she was taken from the parkinglot of Target before they even entered
(49:01):
Target. Her confusion could be legitimate. There might be a medical reason why
she is confused on the timeline.Yeah, that also has not been confirmed.
I don't think that any of theinvestigators were thinking in that way and
(49:21):
those that line of thought to evensuggest she have, you know, be
checked out by a medical professional torule that out. Yeah, because the
nine one one call, as youdescribed it seemed to vary just in coherent,
just kind of like, I don'tknow, messy, all over the
(49:45):
place. A lot of people havesaid that it sounded and again I don't
know where they heard it because Icouldn't find it anywhere. A lot of
people said that it sounded as ifshe was just unaffected like she was very
maybe ten fifteen minutes ago. ButI mean, having read the transcript,
(50:09):
it does sound like she's confused,But I don't know that she's not.
I don't know what the urgency isin her tone because I can't hear it.
I think if I could hear it, then I could say one way
or the other. But a lotof people have just reached that conclusion that
because she was confused and she wasmaybe disoriented or you know, not as
(50:30):
forthcoming with I'm at target, mydaughter is missing. It's been ten minutes.
I you know what I mean?She Yeah, you can't. You
can't get tone from text. Youknow, she could be upset, and
(50:50):
she could be stuttering because she's outof breath, because she's panicking. To
me, it comes off as likedistant in the way that you're just like
not all here. I don't know, and that could be too. Yeah,
like she maybe wasn't. Some peoplehave said that maybe she had like
early onset Alzheimer's. I didn't goon to read that she was ever diagnosed
(51:15):
with dementia or Alzheimer's, but Iknow that that can happen where people get
very confused about timeline when that's thecase. Yeah, maybe she overdosed on
something she was never known or reportedto. I mean I thought about that
too. Was she on medication,that she took something wrong? I don't
(51:38):
know. Seems very strange. Itdoes seem very strange, It really does.
And that's the thing is, Ithink that if we are presuming she
was in the right frame of mindwhen all of this happened, then she
alone has key vital information about Lenoriawhen where she is and where she went
(52:00):
because that was calculated, right.That's kind of what I was thinking in
the beginning until like considered maybe shewas not in the right frame of mind,
right, and if she was havingsome sort of medical issue or mental
health issue, or you know,whatever the case may be, then that
(52:21):
was completely overlooked. Yeah, byeverybody. I mean everybody, nobody.
These are all theories that are comingout now, you know, years later.
Nobody looked at that. At thetime. It was simply, well,
you're acting funny. Where is thislittle girl? Tell us where this
(52:42):
little girl is? Well, yeah, it's hard to have that train of
thought when the story changes so much, like from second to second, like
the story is changing yeah, sothere has been just no wreak through.
The theories are just that their theories, and all these years later when nobody
(53:07):
is getting any answers. That's reallycrazy because she would be like thirty something
yep, yeah, yeah, Iwould think maybe she would have popped up
or like you hear people getting abductedand then they pop back up somehow or
I don't know right. I justheard this TikTok the other day. Somebody
(53:30):
got adopted and I didn't get thecontext because they had just posted this and
it was going viral. But theygot adopted and apparently like their mom had
been searching for them for a reallylong time. Wow, And there was
like an art there was a threadon a online just like an online thread
(53:52):
of like, hey, I'm lookingfor this person. They would have been
born here, like all this informationthat only someone to them would know,
and they called or they had theperson call them, and they were like,
we've been looking for you for likeyour entire life, and she had
no idea that they were looking forThat is absolutely crazy, And like this
(54:15):
started because she found a social Securitycard in a closet with a different name
on it. That wasn't it waslike her name, but not her name,
like her current name. So shebrought it up to her like parents,
and they were like, oh,don't worry about it. Oh yeah,
that's that's so clear. Yeah,don't worry about it. That's fine.
Yeah, But I just wonder aboutlike a situation like that where if
(54:38):
she was abducted, does she knowshe was abducted? If she's still alive,
I mean that that happens, ithas happened. Yeah, especially a
child that young, they would neverknow you. You very rarely have formed
memories. I don't even remember beingthree. That's probably just well, but
(55:04):
I mean, honestly, I don'tremember being three. It's very easy because
children know who they can trust andnot trust, but that doesn't always mean
that it's somebody that they know.You know, people, Children do have
a sense of I don't like you, I don't I'm not going with you,
and they would put up a fight, but that doesn't mean that somebody
is not going to take them.And then easily, when over a child
(55:27):
and you just resume your life notknowing that anything has happened, you would
never know. You really would neverknow. So I hope she's alive.
I hope she is too. Ijust think that that hope is I mean,
(55:49):
this spark is lost on that hope. But her mom has come in
a recent news article that is whatI caught first. She stays she just
wants to have answers and to beable to, you know, basically put
it into this and grieve because shedoes not think that her daughter is alive.
(56:09):
Yeah, and investigators don't believe thatshe's alive either, but it's unaware
that remains. And that's that's agood question. And unfortunately, I think,
you know, I think they weretrying to get answers out of Berlin
by pressuring her with the house arrestfor four months and shutting down her daycare.
(56:32):
If they really felt like they coulddo those things, I don't know
why they didn't press charges. True, I'm not sure where that line of
thinking didn't happen. I also waskind of wondering why Deirdre Lenoria's mom did
not do like a civil suit.I mean, I don't think there was
(56:54):
much proof. Well, yeah,but her daughter, even and though she
didn't have parental rights, Berlin didnot officially have full custody yeah of her,
And so I am wondering if maybebecause the mom did not have any
(57:14):
parental rights, she could not doa civil suit. But that seems to
be I don't know to me,that would have been the best course of
action if it was something that shecould have done, is to do a
civil suit because you had custody,You had physical custody of this child that
(57:35):
was in your care that went missing, and you're not being cooperative with the
investigators who are trying to find her. There's an issue there. Do we
have any context of you know,like with Casey Anthony, it was kind
of like having a child didn't reallyfit her lifestyle. Was there any kind
(57:58):
of situation like that where Berlin mayhave wanted to get rid of her or
did it seem like by all accountlike, yeah, it didn't seem like
that was the case. Because sheran the staycare she I mean, that
was her livelihood. She was aroundchildren all the time, she had four
of her own children, never hadany problems, and all family members that
(58:22):
you know, were interviewed and talkedto you about this said Berlin was always
the one who wanted to be aroundchildren. And I couldn't find anything in
anything that I read that stated therewas even a hint of it was too
much for her. She took onmore than she could she could handle.
(58:45):
She didn't want to do it anymore. That didn't seem to be evident.
That's just really sad. Yeah,it is very sad, and it's I
would love nothing more than to giveanswers to this mom who really never met
her child. Yeah, you know, never she has gotten her life back
(59:12):
on track. She you know,was able to move beyond her circumstances and
has not been able to try tohave a meaningful relationship in some way with
her child because her child is missing. So it's it is one of those
things that I think would even youknow, her getting her life back on
(59:38):
track, this would have actually beenharder to do. I think knowing that
your child is missing and that youthat would probably be another reason to have
an addiction to drugs. Yeah,because I feel like that in itself,
like knowing that her child was withsomeone else, Like that's you grieve that
(01:00:02):
in itself, but you also lookat the side like, Okay, it's
probably better for her while I getmyself together. And then you don't even
get that for her, You don'teven get the opportunity to be in her
life. You don't get the opportunityto reconcile, right, none of it.
Yeah, and it wasn't better forher in the long run to be
(01:00:24):
with this other person, yeah,who from all accounts, she thought would
be the best person to take herdaughter exactly. Yeah, So we'd love
to know your thoughts on this case. It's it's definitely confusing, a lot
of a lot of discussion online thatyou can come across. I wish that
(01:00:50):
I had more information. I wishthat there was more to be said,
but it just seemed like nobody wantsto discuss it to solve it. There's
all these theories, there's all this, you know, could be this,
could be that, But the peoplewho know are not talking. So the
(01:01:12):
hope is that they will come forwardand this little girl's not forgotten and her
story is still being talked about,which is important. So let us know
your thoughts on social media. Hitus up, don't forget. We've got
the Patreon going and our Halloween collabis coming up. We're super excited to
(01:01:32):
share that with you guys, andas always, we thank you and we
love the support that you guys areshowing. Us. We appreciate it,
and we just want you to rememberbe nice, be kind to one another,
stay out of the damn woods though. Bye guys, Bye,
What Happens in the Woods is atrue crime podcast. We discuss events that
are often violent in nature. Listenersdiscretion is advised. Well, hello and
(00:33):
welcome back. We're here with anew episode. We're almost nearing the end
of our sixth season. It's awild ride this year. Hi, Hi,
Brice, Hi, I'm preempting you. Okay, hi, hi,
Hi. Hello, hehorry, goahead and finish now, you don't want
(00:53):
me to finish? All right,got a little sugar in your system?
I see. We're nearing the endour sixth season. Yes, almost almost.
There's after this three episodes. Okay, okay, if you say so,
you're the boss. I you know, I'm not sure anymore. I
(01:15):
don't know. This is not aWTF you're the boss? Okay, okay.
You may may hear some other laughingin the background. So we have
Maara joining us for this episode.Hello, everybody, Hello maraa Hi.
You couldn't get enough. You hadto come come join us for this.
(01:40):
Yes, yeah, she has tomake her presence known. I have to
pop in and out every once ina while, just to stay relevant,
you know, just add my laughter. That's what I feel like. I
contribute the most is just laughing inthe background for your dad, so he
(02:00):
feels like he's being heard. No, I just feel like when I'm in
an episode or something. Yeah,most of it is just laughing or something
in the background. I don't know. I mean, laughter is good unless
we're talking about somebody dying. Yeah, it's not good. That's not good.
It's no good. All right,Bryce, you have any updates announcements?
(02:27):
Yeah, okay, do tell Englandis in the lead? Oh yeah,
yes, hello from across the pond. Well, hello, my ancestors,
my people, and then uh,just interesting. You know in the
(02:49):
United States, who's number two?Florida, Texas, Oh yeah, Washington,
Texas, Oregon, California, Hello, Utah, m Hello, Maryland
m h in Virginia hmmm. AndIllinois and well oh wow Florida. Hello.
(03:15):
Are we going to need to geta map? We have one?
We do? Where is said mapright here for the people who can't see?
Oh? Oh no, I don'tknow. Maybe we could do that,
let us know. Yeah, doyou want a heat map? And
(03:37):
I maybe we should. There's stillmuch of the US that has been untapped.
I thought you were saying, likea map on the wall or like
on the fridge. I mean Ikind of was like the states I visited,
except for right. Oh, Iguess we could have a w H
(03:57):
I t W hot hot map.I just but your dad, I'll like
he thinks in terms of electronics.I think of terms in something tangible that
I can like touch and look at. And so we need to acquire a
sixty five inch TV that goes onthe wall here that I could display like
real time. Yeah. Of uhhuh, I thought you were making that
(04:20):
happen. I've already green lighted that. Oh, I'm just waiting for the
accountant accounting department to write me thecheck. Hmm, that wasn't discussed.
Oh see, darn. Yeah.Maybe maybe Santa will be nice to us.
(04:42):
Maybe you never know, you neverknow. I've been good this year.
I don't know about you. I'vebeen reasonably good within there's flexibility in
that definition. Okay, okay,well we'll see. Then. I just
(05:06):
have to reiterate some things. Idon't know if you've heard our very first
episode and just adamantly put out therethat and this is for the one person
on YouTube, but like, like, if you don't like us the way
we talk and what we talk aboutthis is probably not the podcast for you,
(05:27):
so fuck off. Oh, Imean that's kind of true though.
What did somebody say on YouTube?No, they're always like stop talking and
just get to the case. Like, funk off. People want to hear
us. We talk amongst ourselves,you know, we try to make it
personal and we tell everyone about ourlives. I don't think they are going
(05:48):
on so I'm just a little heatedright now. Yeah, we had a
we had a door dash incident.I mean, here's the thing, this
is not a singular person podcast.If you only want to hear somebody,
you know, get right into astory and and just you know, never
(06:13):
have any person not saying no becausesome of them do have personality, but
not have any personal reflection or anyyou know, you are not looking for
a podcast that has multiple people init because to do it that way,
you're not pinging off of somebody else. You're not bouncing ideas and thoughts off
(06:35):
of somebody else. You are solelygiving the story, giving the facts,
and maybe giving some of your opinionin that. If you are in a
group podcast setting ideas and thoughts andand you know your perspective on things,
that's going to be shared. Soif if you don't like that, then
(06:58):
I don't know why you're here.I you know, I appreciate if you
want to listen because you're interested inthe story, then kindly fast forward go
to where we you know, stoptalking about it. Every bit of media
and device and everything you can fastforward through, and that is okay.
(07:18):
I'm my feelings are not hurt.I don't care. If you're only here
for the story, then just fastforward till you hear the story. And
that's like it that just do itor go away. Yeah. Well,
I also feel like the whole basisof how the podcast was formed from the
(07:38):
beginning was that you find a storyand then you tell Dad and get Dad's
reaction, Like Dad doesn't know thestories beforehand. That's the whole kind of
what it was from the beginning,right, Like I don't know the story
right now that you're about to say, So it's kind of based on reaction
and playing off each other like yousaid, right, which I think brings
(08:01):
it different like it does. Itdoes bring a different vibe, And there
is a reason why we are doingit that way exactly, you know,
because otherwise I could just sit hereand relay the information. So I I
can appreciate that that most people don'tlike the banter or some people don't like
(08:24):
the banter, and I don't care. That's fine. But until you start
your own podcast or your own YouTubevideos or whatever you want to do,
and you, you know, gothrough your creative process, then it's really
you have choices, I guess,is what I'm saying. You have choices
(08:46):
and what you want to listen to. If we don't do it for you,
then kindly just go on by.You're not hurting my feelings. Like
I'm not here to make friends.I guess I don't know. I'm here
to put out a podcast, right. I mean, if you want to
hear about the story, just fastforward to the story. That's all you
gotta do. Sorry, I wasin a joker mood. No I watch
(09:07):
everything burn. Oh my gosh,I'm just kidding. But to everybody else,
welcome to the campfire. Yes,everybody is welcome. Everybody is and
everyone's very supportive and I love thatabout this community. And welcome to the
campfire. Yeah, I mean,I'm not telling anybody not to come.
(09:28):
Everybody is welcome, and we saythat all the time. I am just
saying, if we are not foryou, you don't need to make comments
about you don't want to hear ustalk, then you can leave. That's
You're free to come, You're freeto leave. You know, That's just
that's life. I think that socialmedia makes people very brave to say things,
(09:56):
and everybody wants to add their twocents. And yes, we live
in a world where you know,we live in a country where freedom of
speech is often taken for granted,and this is a way that you can
use your free speech. It alsois not productive. I don't know what
(10:16):
the point is to come on theYouTube and be like, shut the hell
up and get to the story.Shut the hell up and fast forward.
Same goes for you. So movingon. Yeah, I'm not going to
turn the podcast into a bitch fest. I'm off my soapbox now. Okay,
(10:37):
Well, do you have any otherupdates? Fucked or dash? All
right? Other updates? Okay,all right, Well I do have a
couple of announcements. So Patreon,which is the new home for the WTF
series, that's up and going aftermany issues. We were on vacation and
(10:58):
we're trying to resolve things from Alaskaand I just had no idea that Patreon
was going to be an issue.I don't know that make it seem so
easy. So there is a linkthat I shared on social media that will
take you directly to our page andwe'll get the website updated the link tree
(11:20):
updated as well. For some reason, though, we are in like super
secrets by stealth mode on Patreon andyou cannot find us if you try to
search for us, and I haveyet to have Patreon explained to me how
to fix it or why that happened, so it's a little frustrating. But
(11:43):
if you follow the link, youshould be good. So right now,
it's three dollars a month for WTFreleases, which are there's two of them
per month that we're going to beputting out, and there might be some
extras in the future. I don'tknow. But I wanted to say a
huge thank you to to Christy andDana, who are the first two patrons
(12:03):
to sign up, So thank youso much. Ladies. Definitely know your
tribe, like I feel like weare supported and we know our people,
so I'm always appreciative and I'm humbledwhen people reach out and they are like,
(12:26):
you know, they are genuinely engagedin what we're doing. So it
is time for Halloween, right andyou know, if you know, you
know, we always do our Halloweencollab with Crimes and Closets, our podcast
besties. This is the fourth yearthat we are going to be doing this
(12:50):
these special episodes, and we've switchedup a little bit. We've changed a
couple of things. We have atheme this year that I think is going
to be I thought it was apretty cool idea. Beth came up with
it and we all immediately were like, yep, that's it done. Deal,
let's move on. So we aregoing to drop the first episode on
(13:13):
Friday, October twenty seventh, withChristy joining me on our feed, and
then Bryce and Beth the Killer Beesare going to be on Crimes and Closets
feed on Monday, October thirtieth,So make sure that you are following Christy
and Beth in Crimes and Closets ifyou aren't already, you're not going to
(13:35):
want to miss either of those episodes. So pretty awesome. We just recorded
them this last weekend and had alot of fun as usual. That's all
I got, Mari, you haveany updates? I do. I'm sure.
Oh, I have an update.Okay, just so you guys know,
(13:56):
I don't know if you've said thisyet, but it is your birth
month or stop it? Go sayhappy birthday to mom on the twenty eighth.
No, October twenty eighth. Yourdad is always so agitated when I
talk about my birth month. Birthmonth is banned. It kind of is.
(14:18):
And then and then he's like,what do you want? Do you
what do you want? Okay,but you haven't said anything that you want,
because you know what, I'm tooold at this point. I don't
I don't want your mom. Okay, yeah, you are the mother.
I am the mother. I don'tknow what I need or want. I
(14:41):
don't know. Okay, all right, are you ready to get into this
case? Yes? Updating? Yes, okay. It is my birth month
though, so I never have toupdates. Well that was a good one,
thank you. I love them.All right, So this case that
(15:03):
we're going to talk about today istwisty, a little twisty, turney a
little. I don't know. Idon't There's going to be a lot to
discuss. I think I have adisappearance to discuss for today's episode. And
this took place just down the roadfrom US in Tacoma, Washington. And
(15:24):
just a little spoiler, this remainsunsolved, and it's very frustrating because I
think it could easily be solved,but we are so far removed now that
I don't think we're ever going toget an answer. On the morning of
July twentieth, nineteen ninety five,a nine to one one call came in
(15:45):
to dispatch from a target payphone atnine fifty two am. He has a
payphone? What's a payphone? Yougotta explain it for our younger. I
think everybody knows what a payphone is. And how much would you have to
pay for? Said in nineteen ninetyfive, probably a quarter? Okay,
okay, quarter? Thirty five cents? I don't I don't remember. I
(16:07):
know I was in high school whenit went to thirty five cents. Could
I use Apple Pay? Absolutely not? Okay, Sorry, okay, do
go on. You had to havechange, okay. So a woman claimed
that her daughter was missing. Sheseemed a little confused, and the nine
(16:30):
to one to one operator had ahard time getting direct information from the caller.
The woman was then forty five yearold Berlin Williams. The little girl
who was reported missing was three yearold Lenoria Jones LANORIAH Sorry, were they
related? Yes? Okay, soLeanoria was actually Berlin's great niece, not
(16:51):
daughter, but she had legal custodyof her at the time. Oh,
okay, I was wondering, Yeah, great niece. That's like a weird
great niece. Yeah. So herBerlin's brother was the grandfather. Okay,
(17:12):
So Berlin was in the process ofadopting Lenoria, and it actually was just
like hinding the documents being sent out, so by by all rights it had
kind of been formalized. So thegrandparents had also been trying to get custody.
(17:32):
They resided in Spokane, where Ibelieve Leonoria was born, but custody
did end up being granted to Berlin. Lenoria's mom had given up parental rights
after birth, and her father wasnever named, never came forward either during
(17:52):
the request for custody. They youknow, they have to post that in
news papers. They used to.I don't know if they what they do
now because there's really no newspapers.They used to have to post for a
certain amount of days consecutively to havepeople come forward if they contested things,
(18:17):
so the gentleman never came forward.Lenoria was born on January third, nineteen
ninety two, to Dedra Jones.Her mom was not in a good position
in her life to care for thebaby, and Lenoria was found to have
cocaine in her system at birth.She so Deidra was facing drug charges and
(18:40):
jail time prior to Lenoria's birth,so at birth parental rights were terminated and
she became a ward of the state. Dedra states that she asked her aunt,
Berlin, to take Lanoria so thatshe would be in a safe place.
So Berlin had four children of herown that ranged in age from to
(19:00):
adult. She also ran a licensedday care out of her home in Tacoma.
Leonoria did get passed around to severalfamily members, including her grandparents,
her maternal grandparents, and I believetwo aunts, but eventually Berlin was granted
custody, so she did move innineteen ninety four July of nineteen ninety four
(19:23):
to live with Berlin in Tacoma.Something that has been discussed and seems to
be a little controversial, is thatdue to the circumstances of her birth,
Leonoria was diagnosed as having ADHD almostlike immediately she was put on medication at
an extremely young age. And itseems to me that this was common in
(19:48):
the nineties from what I understand.So the War on drugs, of course,
was in its prime. And theterm crack baby, I know,
we've all heard it said, itused it. It was frequently used to
describe children born to parents who hadused cocaine and that were addicted to cocaine
at birth. Usually these children exhibitedhealth issues or developmental delays. And at
(20:12):
this time, you know, therewas some data, but there wasn't a
whole lot of research yet that washelpful in developing like a plan of care
for these children, you know,who were born in these unfortunate circumstances.
Most doctors did like the least involvedthing, and they prescribed medication to assist
(20:33):
with any behavioral or learning issues.At the time, there just wasn't really
I don't think there was an understandingof how medication in itself is not bad.
But that seemed to be the answerin the nineties was, oh,
we have all these new medications,let's just show yeah, throw an at
you and hope it helps. That'sjust really sad, because a small child
(21:00):
on whatever type of medication this wouldhave been while they're still developing, right,
I could probably be more harmful thanhelpful, I would think. But
well, and there's no way ofknowing what was this even needed? Yeah,
how do you? Because from whatI read, ADHD is typically not
(21:22):
diagnosed until around the age of seven. Well, and it depends on girls
too, because girls exhibit differently,Right, But also, I just how
do you just like prescribe like atwo year old medication for ADHD? I
don't know, right, And that'snot to say that that wouldn't have been
(21:42):
her diagnosis. I have no idea. I mean, it's not like I've
looked at medical records and I'm atrained professional, But there has been a
lot of discussion about how young shewas to be on this type of medication,
and that kind of presents its ownissues. And I'll kind of get
(22:03):
into that and a little bit later. So Lenoria had been with her great
aunt for about a year at thispoint. She was healthy and happy.
From all accounts. Deidre had movedto Arkansas where there was other family members
that lived, and she kind ofskipped out on she served her jail time,
(22:26):
but she kind of skipped out onthe parole, I guess, and
moved out of state. So shewas living in Spokane at the time and
moved down to Arkansas. She wouldthough, keep in contact with Leonoria by
phone and you know the family membersthat had Leonora until she went to live
(22:47):
with Berlin, and then she continuedbeing in contact by phone. She had
actually attempted to call her daughter twodays prior to Lenora being reported as missing.
At that time, though she wastold by Berlin that she could not
speak with Leonoria that day. Thereis not a mention of why or a
reason given why. As I mentioned, Erlin called nine one one that morning
(23:10):
in July to report Lenoria was lost. I could not find any audio of
the call, even though it issaid that it was released a year after
her disappearance. There is a smallsnip that I heard that was in a
news report that is mostly voiced over. So I was able to find a
(23:33):
transcript of the beginning of the call. So what I could find? So
the nine one one operator answers,of course and says nine one one police
fire or medical aid. It statesthat Berlin responded, yes, I'm calling
to see how long is it?I mean I just I just missed my
daughter. She's three years old,and I I'm here in the grocery store.
(23:59):
I was walking around trying to findher, but I haven't seen her
yet. So she seems maybe alittle bit confused. Yeah. The operator
says, okay, you lost yourdaughter. She responds yes. They ask
what grocery store? Madam. Ma'amBerlin says, huh, I've been at
Target. The operator says, soyou're at Target and not Top Foods.
(24:21):
Now. I don't know how theyknow where they're at. I'm thinking the
payphone had a location and it wasmaybe not inside Target, it was outside
of Target. There was a grocerystore right next to Target that was called
Top Foods. So she said grocerystore when I mean when she called and
she said, I'm here at thegrocery store. So Brilein answers, no,
(24:44):
I'm not at Top Foods. I'mat Target right now. And the
operator says, okay, well,you said grocery store. That's why I
want to verify. How long agodid you last see her? Brillian answers,
I think just a few minutes.The operator asked, well, how
long, ma'am Arlene says about aboutabout fifteen ten or fifteen minutes, the
(25:06):
operator answers, okay inside Target.Berlin says yes. So after that,
of course police respond. The officerscome and it's not long, you know,
after the call. They come in, they find Berlin. They are
attempting to get the information from herregarding you know, when was the last
(25:29):
time you saw her, where wereyou at in the store? Did you
you know, were there any issues? And they are asking her, you
know, can you retrace your steps? So Berlin states that Lenoria must have
wandered off while the two were lookingat swimsuits. Police say okay. Then
(25:55):
they decide that they are going torequest the video footage from inside of the
Target shopping area, and Target givesthem all of that. They don't have
time to review it at that time, but as they are questioning Berlin even
more, she then starts to changeher story. So she tells them that
(26:19):
she had gone to a car wash, then they did go to the grocery
store, then they came into Target. She says that while out in the
car, she she got Lenoria outof the car. They're walking into the
store and Lanoria says, can welook at toys? Berlin told her,
(26:44):
we need to look at swimsuits first, but then we can look at getting
you a toy. She says thatshe had Leonoria walking behind her into the
store. She heard Leonoria say okay, and then she proceeded to go to
the swimsuit aisle and look at swimsuits. She turned around realized that Lenoria was
(27:07):
not with her. So at thispoint police take that information, They get
the surveillance videos, and people arestill looking. There are the store employees
that are looking. There are policethat are they're looking in Target, they're
looking in the grocery store next door. They start to go and look at
the other places that she went thismorning, and there's no sign of this
(27:33):
little girl anywhere that anybody can find. So it was the next day when
investigators reviewing the tapes realized that there'san issue with the story. Leonoria never
entered Target. Really, really,she is not seen, and they have
clear footage of Berlin walking in thestore, going to get a car,
(28:00):
art to shop, and walking outof you know that area of footage into
the next area of footage where Imean. Target is well known for their
surveillance even in the nineties, wellknown for their surveillance and their like their
parking lots, even they've always hadsurveillance. Yeah, so there's no Lenoria
(28:25):
on any of this footage nowhere inthe store. So they bring in Berlin
to question her about really what's goingon, and they had her there for
ten hours. During this ten hourshe gave many conflicting statements. When they
(28:47):
presented the evidence to her that thesurveillance footage did not show Leonoria entering the
store, she simply answers, well, maybe she wasn't with me. Maybe
he means yes. So she alsostates that after stopping at this convenience store
and getting gas and going through acar wash, they went into the top
(29:12):
Foods grocery store. Maybe at somepoint they got she lost her there.
Then she also says that that's actuallynot what happened at all, that she
was abducted in the alley behind herhome that morning by two armed black men
(29:33):
what and she doesn't know where Lenoriais. Investigators start talking to other family
members. So the four family membersthat live in the home with Berlin and
Lenoria, and it is said byone of her daughters, both of which
so she has three daughters. They'reall late teens and almost adult age.
(29:57):
Two of them. One says thatshe saw Lenoria that morning at six am,
and then there was another one thatconfirmed that Berlin had left home with
Lenoria at about eight am. Shealso then states that that morning at about
eight forty seven, which is avery precise time to give to somebody when
(30:22):
questioned. So eight forty seven thatmorning, Berlin had called and talked to
this daughter and told the daughter thatLenoria was missing. At that time,
that is a full hour before shecalled nine to one one. So there's
a lot of speculation that maybe thetime was confused. Maybe she had called
(30:48):
the daughter at nine forty seven andthat was right before she called nine one
one. Maybe maybe the daughter's confused. Maybe Berlin's confused. I'm confused exactly.
Yeah. So, while Berlin isbeing questioned and there's a lot of
(31:10):
misdirected information given going back and forth, there was approximately one hundred people that
participated in a search and rescue effort, canvassing the area, retracing any of
the area where Berlin and Lenoria wereknown to have gone. There was again
no there was just no evidence ofwhere Lenoria was or how she would have
(31:34):
gotten someplace, so Berlin was eventuallyreleased. She was called again the next
day for some more questioning. Thistime though she had lawyered up, so
her lawyer stated that she would notbe coming in and discussing anything. They
had asked that she take a polygraphtest. She said no. So they
(31:57):
are left with conflicting statements. Nothingis lining up, nothing is making sense,
and the police actually state that thepolice believe that she is withholding information.
There is a quote from investigator thatquote, she gets to a point
she wants to tell us, andthen she stops. We need something else
(32:19):
to go on. We need tofind someone who saw her leave the house.
We're waiting for her to come upwith the truth. End quote.
So the last time that Lenoria couldactually physically be put anywhere was four days
prior at church. That's a biggap. It is although you do think
for a three year old they're notnecessarily going to school. She ran a
(32:43):
daycare, so she wouldn't necessarily leavethe house or be seen anywhere. And
then you do have the report fromDeirdre, her mom, saying that she
called two days prior on the eighteenthand was told no, you can't talk
to her. Are they saying,like the last time anyone outside of the
family saw her was at church,Yeah, a few days prior so,
(33:06):
but the one daughter had said shesaw Lenoria that morning at like six or
six thirty when she woke up,and that the other daughter saw her leave
with Berlin around eight am. Sothey do go and talk to the gas
station attendant, and the gas stationattendant recalls that there was nobody else in
the van with Berlin. I donot know how good of a view of
(33:30):
the van that this person had.It is not stated were they on video,
were you know, did she comein from getting gas or going through
the car wash? Did she haveto interact with somebody? There's not really
don't. I don't believe that therewas enough information released on that, and
that probably is for good reason.But it is released that that person who
(33:54):
was working at that time states thatshe did not have anybody else in the
van with her when she was there. This is so strange. I was
thinking like maybe that Berlin is notof sound mind, but it kind of
sounds like she is, so thatthat is kind of Yeah, that's one
(34:15):
of the theories that I'll kind ofget into. So police are left with
more questions than they have answers dueto all the conflicting information and the lack
of substantial information the investigators are gettingfrom Berlin. Her license was suspended for
(34:37):
the daycare. She up until thistime, had not had any major violations,
no previous criminal history. In allof the inspections, there was just
some regular, you know, discrepancies, things that you would find in a
(34:59):
normal you know, reports of goingto the daycare. So I read that
there was, you know, areport of like lack of emergency procedures for
evacuations if they were needed, thattype of thing, which are correctable and
they're not going to lead to thedaycare being shut down. So she did
(35:21):
not have a previous history of anyissues with the daycare, She had no
criminal history, but they were attemptingto put her in a place I think
where she felt intimidated and that shewould have to answer for things, and
it led to her being also puton house arrest. Oh my gosh.
(35:45):
The most that they got out ofBerlin was that after I think I think
maybe in her mind, once sherealized or or she could not give a
good enough answer as to how orwhen Lenoria disappeared Her story then was the
(36:07):
two men that attacked her in thealley and took Lenoria and from there.
She said that she knew where Lenoriawas and that she was safe, but
she could not give any details.What. Yeah, so why would you
call nine one one? Well,I don't know how you go to the
gas station and then the grocery storeand then target after you've been attacked in
(36:30):
your alley of your home and yourchild essentially taken from you. I'm just
chilling gonna make a target run,right, I mean, I Target's pretty
awesome, but that's not going tobe my concern. I mean, you
could be in shock, but Idon't think that's the situation here at all.
(36:51):
It's just it's confusing. So investigatorshad a really hard time, so
out of safety concerns, they didhave the daycare shut down. She was
placed on house arrest and police wentthrough the weekend. They contacted the family
and Spokane So Leonoria's grandparents, anyother family members that were living in that
(37:14):
area. They were all asked ofto verify their whereabouts and provide any information
if they had any regarding Lenoria andthe last time they had seen her,
as well as if they had anyunderstanding of what Berlin might be trying to
do. I mean, essentially,they were asking, do you think that
(37:37):
Berlin would harm her? Do youthink that Berlin would you be covering up
for somebody? Is there anything thatwe should know? And nobody had any
answers. They had not seen Lenoria, they had not heard from Berlin.
There were no issues as far asthey knew. They also contacted her mom,
(38:00):
Deirdre, in Arkansas and the familythat was living down there. They
were all cleared. They did notbelieve that those family members had any connection
to what was happening in Dacoma andthat they did not have Lenoria. So
it was very frustrating. There wereno answers and the people who could give
(38:20):
answers were not talking. So Sundayevening, July twenty third, the family
spoke publicly for the first time.Berlin did not speak, However, one
of her daughters did speak, andthey gave a press conference. It was
televised. They said nothing. Essentially, they claimed publicly at this time that
(38:45):
Lenoria had been abducted. They alsosaid that they continue to ask the questions
of where Lenoria was, and theyhad no answers. Either the story has
changed into many times. For me, it really is changing a lot of
times. They stated that Berlin wasoverwhelmed and that her time of you know,
(39:09):
the ten hours of questioning that theinvestigators had with her left her extremely
nervous. They did claim that asa black woman, it was it was
extremely you know, hard for herto be under fire from police questioning.
And and I can understand that wherethey lived in Tacoma was the Hilltop area
(39:35):
where the crips and the Army Rangershad their gunfight. I don't remember.
That's because you told that story.She actually lived not far from where that
that was. So the community atthat time was it was a very strained
relationship with the police. With lawenforcement. Can see even to this day,
(40:00):
I can see where a person ofcolor involving police in any way,
in anything, it would be thelast thing they want to do. In
a lot of areas. It's Ialso can reasonably understand why she might have
delayed calling if that's the case,And I can understand that she might after
(40:24):
having spent ten hours being investigating interrogated. Essentially, who knows how that went.
I don't know. There's no statements, there's I couldn't find any recordings
of it. I couldn't find anyaudio, I couldn't find any video of
that interrogation. I can understand theirclaim of her being frustrated or flustered and
(40:46):
nervous and anxious about the whole proceedingsof that. I can't understand that.
Yeah, However, that still doesn'tchange the fact that she did have a
lawyer that could have been present withher, because the lawyer is the one
that called and said that she wouldnot be doing the polygraph. That also
(41:08):
does not explain away how many storiesshe gave and where Lenoria is. Yeah,
it doesn't. It just doesn't.So that's basically their press conference.
They claim that they are just asconfused and frustrated and upset as everybody else,
(41:31):
and they took no questions. Theydid not publicly speak again. On
July twenty fourth, Berlin was interviewedanother time. So this would be the
third time by Tacoma police. Andat this point they've had many different versions
(41:52):
of the story and they are basicallybeing told the same thing. There is
not a new thing that she givesto them. She is sticking to the
story of the two men that youknow got into the alley behind her home
and abducted Lanoria and Merlin. Then, on Tuesday to twenty fifth, publicly
(42:14):
says I did not have anything todo with Lenoria's disappearance. I stand like
any other mother missing my child.She reiterated that she had made you know,
she knew that she had made veryconfusing statements to the police, but
that she was nervous and dealing withthe police. She claims that that is
(42:34):
what led her to so many conflictingstories, and then she said that the
police are focusing on her instead ofspending time focusing on Lenoria. But you're
making it so hard to like you'regetting in your own way in this situation.
Like I completely understand being nervous andall that, but changing your story
so many times and just getting inthe way of them doing their job,
(42:59):
right bottom line, like hello,right right. Unfortunately, this is really
where it stands. So there havebeen many, many different ways that investigators
have gone about looking at this,and there's no answers. So Lenoria is
(43:24):
missing, presumed dead. Deidre hasno answers. She's been looking for answers
for the last decades. However,many decades. It's twenty almost what thirty
years forty years or she would belike thirty something years old. Yeah,
So there are no answers to this, and it's it's very frustrating for I
(43:50):
think investigators because they do believe thatif the one person Berlin could have been
forthcoming at the very beginning, theycould have searched in the right places yew.
If something did happen to her,they could have found that out with
the right information. So at onepoint there was a tip that had been
(44:15):
called in anonymously and the person thatcalled in did have relevant information that was
not released to the public. Sounfortunately though they only got a recorded message
from what I can under like whatI can gather in everything, nobody actually
(44:36):
spoke to this person and they didnot leave a phone number or any way
to contact them. So authorities arestill putting this out there. I have
seen even recent news reports and articlesfrom earlier this year where Deirdre has reached
out and is asking for assistance fromthe community, anybody who might know,
(44:59):
but in specifically are mentioning this oneperson that called in that had details that
were not released to the public.They would like to speak to this person
again and it is something that theythink could break the case wide open,
and they've been wanting to hear fromthis person for the last thirty years,
(45:21):
forty years. Whether that person isgoing to be able to give them any
information, I don't know, butthat's what the investigators feel. So some
of the theories are that, well, the first one that I think is
very likely. It's it's very sad, but just about a week prior to
(45:42):
the disappearance, Lenoria had been puton a medication that would help her sleep.
Berleian claimed that she was having problemssleeping, and this is not an
uncommon thing with children who have lifeare born with a drug addiction, or
have ADHD, sleeping is an issue. So the pediatrician had claimed that it
(46:09):
was experimental to put a child thisyoung on this medication. Then don't do
it it. Yeah, I guesswe're not surprised, but he did prescribe
it. It is disappointing, buthe did describe it or prescribe it to
(46:32):
her. So she had been onthis medication for a week prior to her
disappearance, and one of the theoriesis that there was an accidental overdose.
Apparently it was a quite common thingwith this medication, that overdose could happen
very easily. So it is assumedin this theory that she overdosed on this
(46:55):
medication which is called norpramin norprimine norprimine, it's actually an antidepressant. And
the likelihood is that she could haveeasily been given too much or gotten into
the pill bottle herself and overdosed accidentally. And this made Berlin panic. She
(47:21):
was maybe concerned about what this wouldmean for her family, for her daycare,
that was her livelihood. She wasa single mother. And while it
was an accident, you know,leonoria was disposed of. Essentially, that's
a theory. That's a theory.Yeah, that is there's no way of
knowing their Leanoria has never been foundand the family is not talking. So
(47:46):
even from what I saw, soshe was given the smallest dose, which
was ten milligrams one hundred and fiftymilligrams, so fifteen pills would put like
would lead to serious issues. Thirtypills would likely lead to death. So
if she had been given a month'ssupply, she easily if somebody had overdosed
(48:13):
her would have been very very sick, if not dead. The other interesting
I guess theory was kind of whatyou said, Maria, where she was
maybe having some sort of mental crisis. Yeah, So there was a lot
of discussion about her possibly having hada stroke or a seizure that morning,
(48:37):
and that led to a lot ofher confusion on where she was and where
she last saw Lenoria. Yeah.Possibly Leonoria was taken when they were at
the gas station. Possibly she wastaken while they were at the grocery store.
Possibly she was taken from the parkinglot of Target before they even entered
(49:01):
Target. Her confusion could be legitimate. There might be a medical reason why
she is confused on the timeline.Yeah, that also has not been confirmed.
I don't think that any of theinvestigators were thinking in that way and
(49:21):
those that line of thought to evensuggest she have, you know, be
checked out by a medical professional torule that out. Yeah, because the
nine one one call, as youdescribed it seemed to vary just in coherent,
just kind of like, I don'tknow, messy, all over the
(49:45):
place. A lot of people havesaid that it sounded and again I don't
know where they heard it because Icouldn't find it anywhere. A lot of
people said that it sounded as ifshe was just unaffected like she was very
maybe ten fifteen minutes ago. ButI mean, having read the transcript,
(50:09):
it does sound like she's confused,But I don't know that she's not.
I don't know what the urgency isin her tone because I can't hear it.
I think if I could hear it, then I could say one way
or the other. But a lotof people have just reached that conclusion that
because she was confused and she wasmaybe disoriented or you know, not as
(50:30):
forthcoming with I'm at target, mydaughter is missing. It's been ten minutes.
I you know what I mean?She Yeah, you can't. You
can't get tone from text. Youknow, she could be upset, and
(50:50):
she could be stuttering because she's outof breath, because she's panicking. To
me, it comes off as likedistant in the way that you're just like
not all here. I don't know, and that could be too. Yeah,
like she maybe wasn't. Some peoplehave said that maybe she had like
early onset Alzheimer's. I didn't goon to read that she was ever diagnosed
(51:15):
with dementia or Alzheimer's, but Iknow that that can happen where people get
very confused about timeline when that's thecase. Yeah, maybe she overdosed on
something she was never known or reportedto. I mean I thought about that
too. Was she on medication,that she took something wrong? I don't
(51:38):
know. Seems very strange. Itdoes seem very strange, It really does.
And that's the thing is, Ithink that if we are presuming she
was in the right frame of mindwhen all of this happened, then she
alone has key vital information about Lenoriawhen where she is and where she went
(52:00):
because that was calculated, right.That's kind of what I was thinking in
the beginning until like considered maybe shewas not in the right frame of mind,
right, and if she was havingsome sort of medical issue or mental
health issue, or you know,whatever the case may be, then that
(52:21):
was completely overlooked. Yeah, byeverybody. I mean everybody, nobody.
These are all theories that are comingout now, you know, years later.
Nobody looked at that. At thetime. It was simply, well,
you're acting funny. Where is thislittle girl? Tell us where this
(52:42):
little girl is? Well, yeah, it's hard to have that train of
thought when the story changes so much, like from second to second, like
the story is changing yeah, sothere has been just no wreak through.
The theories are just that their theories, and all these years later when nobody
(53:07):
is getting any answers. That's reallycrazy because she would be like thirty something
yep, yeah, yeah, Iwould think maybe she would have popped up
or like you hear people getting abductedand then they pop back up somehow or
I don't know right. I justheard this TikTok the other day. Somebody
(53:30):
got adopted and I didn't get thecontext because they had just posted this and
it was going viral. But theygot adopted and apparently like their mom had
been searching for them for a reallylong time. Wow, And there was
like an art there was a threadon a online just like an online thread
(53:52):
of like, hey, I'm lookingfor this person. They would have been
born here, like all this informationthat only someone to them would know,
and they called or they had theperson call them, and they were like,
we've been looking for you for likeyour entire life, and she had
no idea that they were looking forThat is absolutely crazy, And like this
(54:15):
started because she found a social Securitycard in a closet with a different name
on it. That wasn't it waslike her name, but not her name,
like her current name. So shebrought it up to her like parents,
and they were like, oh,don't worry about it. Oh yeah,
that's that's so clear. Yeah,don't worry about it. That's fine.
Yeah, But I just wonder aboutlike a situation like that where if
(54:38):
she was abducted, does she knowshe was abducted? If she's still alive,
I mean that that happens, ithas happened. Yeah, especially a
child that young, they would neverknow you. You very rarely have formed
memories. I don't even remember beingthree. That's probably just well, but
(55:04):
I mean, honestly, I don'tremember being three. It's very easy because
children know who they can trust andnot trust, but that doesn't always mean
that it's somebody that they know.You know, people, Children do have
a sense of I don't like you, I don't I'm not going with you,
and they would put up a fight, but that doesn't mean that somebody
is not going to take them.And then easily, when over a child
(55:27):
and you just resume your life notknowing that anything has happened, you would
never know. You really would neverknow. So I hope she's alive.
I hope she is too. Ijust think that that hope is I mean,
(55:49):
this spark is lost on that hope. But her mom has come in
a recent news article that is whatI caught first. She stays she just
wants to have answers and to beable to, you know, basically put
it into this and grieve because shedoes not think that her daughter is alive.
(56:09):
Yeah, and investigators don't believe thatshe's alive either, but it's unaware
that remains. And that's that's agood question. And unfortunately, I think,
you know, I think they weretrying to get answers out of Berlin
by pressuring her with the house arrestfor four months and shutting down her daycare.
(56:32):
If they really felt like they coulddo those things, I don't know
why they didn't press charges. True, I'm not sure where that line of
thinking didn't happen. I also waskind of wondering why Deirdre Lenoria's mom did
not do like a civil suit.I mean, I don't think there was
(56:54):
much proof. Well, yeah,but her daughter, even and though she
didn't have parental rights, Berlin didnot officially have full custody yeah of her,
And so I am wondering if maybebecause the mom did not have any
(57:14):
parental rights, she could not doa civil suit. But that seems to
be I don't know to me,that would have been the best course of
action if it was something that shecould have done, is to do a
civil suit because you had custody,You had physical custody of this child that
(57:35):
was in your care that went missing, and you're not being cooperative with the
investigators who are trying to find her. There's an issue there. Do we
have any context of you know,like with Casey Anthony, it was kind
of like having a child didn't reallyfit her lifestyle. Was there any kind
(57:58):
of situation like that where Berlin mayhave wanted to get rid of her or
did it seem like by all accountlike, yeah, it didn't seem like
that was the case. Because sheran the staycare she I mean, that
was her livelihood. She was aroundchildren all the time, she had four
of her own children, never hadany problems, and all family members that
(58:22):
you know, were interviewed and talkedto you about this said Berlin was always
the one who wanted to be aroundchildren. And I couldn't find anything in
anything that I read that stated therewas even a hint of it was too
much for her. She took onmore than she could she could handle.
(58:45):
She didn't want to do it anymore. That didn't seem to be evident.
That's just really sad. Yeah,it is very sad, and it's I
would love nothing more than to giveanswers to this mom who really never met
her child. Yeah, you know, never she has gotten her life back
(59:12):
on track. She you know,was able to move beyond her circumstances and
has not been able to try tohave a meaningful relationship in some way with
her child because her child is missing. So it's it is one of those
things that I think would even youknow, her getting her life back on
(59:38):
track, this would have actually beenharder to do. I think knowing that
your child is missing and that youthat would probably be another reason to have
an addiction to drugs. Yeah,because I feel like that in itself,
like knowing that her child was withsomeone else, Like that's you grieve that
(01:00:02):
in itself, but you also lookat the side like, Okay, it's
probably better for her while I getmyself together. And then you don't even
get that for her, You don'teven get the opportunity to be in her
life. You don't get the opportunityto reconcile, right, none of it.
Yeah, and it wasn't better forher in the long run to be
(01:00:24):
with this other person, yeah,who from all accounts, she thought would
be the best person to take herdaughter exactly. Yeah, So we'd love
to know your thoughts on this case. It's it's definitely confusing, a lot
of a lot of discussion online thatyou can come across. I wish that
(01:00:50):
I had more information. I wishthat there was more to be said,
but it just seemed like nobody wantsto discuss it to solve it. There's
all these theories, there's all this, you know, could be this,
could be that, But the peoplewho know are not talking. So the
(01:01:12):
hope is that they will come forwardand this little girl's not forgotten and her
story is still being talked about,which is important. So let us know
your thoughts on social media. Hitus up, don't forget. We've got
the Patreon going and our Halloween collabis coming up. We're super excited to
(01:01:32):
share that with you guys, andas always, we thank you and we
love the support that you guys areshowing. Us. We appreciate it,
and we just want you to rememberbe nice, be kind to one another,
stay out of the damn woods though. Bye guys, Bye,
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