October 16, 2025 • 32 mins
Bestselling authors William Bernhardt (The Superman Wars) and Lara Bernhardt discuss the latest news from the book world, offer writing tips, and interview Shanna Hatfiled, the author of more than one hundred novels about her new Christmas novel, The Bridge.
0:00 Opening Thoughts
Welcome to Season Five of the WriterCon Podcast! We're going to reach our 200th episode in December and we're looking for suggestions on how to celebrate this momentous event. Post your ideas in the Comments section!
02:56 News
1) New Developments in the Anthropic Settlement
Here's a link to the site where you can determine whether any of your books were impropoerly used by Anthropic. You can also submit a Claim Form so you can participate in the settlement—if you qualify.
Searchable database: https://secure.anthropiccopyrightsettlement.com/lookup/?_gl=1x16ddk_gcl_auMjExNTg2NTEzMi4xNzU5NDE1NTc0
Submitting Claim Forms: https://www.anthropiccopyrightsettlement.com/
2) New "Book Club" Scam Floods Writers' Email Inboxes
Support and follow Writer Beware! https://writerbeware.blog/
13:32 Craft Corner
Barry Friedman (author of Jack Sh*t 3: I'm the Father) offers suggestions on bringing reality to your fiction.
15:52 Interview with Shanna Hatfield
30:58 Parting Words
The 2026 WriterCon Cruise in March leaving from Ft. Lauderdale on an Eastern Caribbean itinerary. Come join us!
0:00 Opening Thoughts
Welcome to Season Five of the WriterCon Podcast! We're going to reach our 200th episode in December and we're looking for suggestions on how to celebrate this momentous event. Post your ideas in the Comments section!
02:56 News
1) New Developments in the Anthropic Settlement
Here's a link to the site where you can determine whether any of your books were impropoerly used by Anthropic. You can also submit a Claim Form so you can participate in the settlement—if you qualify.
Searchable database: https://secure.anthropiccopyrightsettlement.com/lookup/?_gl=1x16ddk_gcl_auMjExNTg2NTEzMi4xNzU5NDE1NTc0
Submitting Claim Forms: https://www.anthropiccopyrightsettlement.com/
2) New "Book Club" Scam Floods Writers' Email Inboxes
Support and follow Writer Beware! https://writerbeware.blog/
13:32 Craft Corner
Barry Friedman (author of Jack Sh*t 3: I'm the Father) offers suggestions on bringing reality to your fiction.
15:52 Interview with Shanna Hatfield
30:58 Parting Words
The 2026 WriterCon Cruise in March leaving from Ft. Lauderdale on an Eastern Caribbean itinerary. Come join us!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on the writer Con podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Believing yourself don't matter. Run anybody else tells you believe
in yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to writer Coon, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award
winning author of the want LNN Files book series.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
us today. We are back for our fifth season of
writer Con, which is actually a lot more writer Con
than it sounds like. I mean, we've done eighteen conferences,
plus this is our one hundred and ninety sixth episode
(00:46):
of this podcast. I didn't actually start breaking them down
into seasons until Laura joined the team, and now I
just do it every year as we start fresh again
after the writer Con break. And you know what that means.
It means we're just a few episodes. It's away from
our two hundredth episode. I mean, it seems like we
should do something special to celebrate that. Anybody have any ideas, Lara, Jesse,
(01:10):
what do.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
You think James Patterson appearance.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
That would be special? Might have trouble booking, but I
will get on that.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Lara. What do you think?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Hmm, maybe we should have cake next time.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Well that's a lot easier than getting James Patterson that
much is for a.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Certain It's not like he's busy writing.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
Oh got him.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
We could all wear party hats. Although it'll be December,
so you know it's not quite but practically our Christmas episode.
I guess if we skipped one, it could be our
Christmas episode. But nah, we'll do two hundred and let
two one everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, people love hearing people eat, so listen, there are
there are, there is any people who enjoy hearing people eat.
So we get some new new listeners that way.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
How can that be? Is that like a podcast? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
That's people talking softly, not chowing.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I believe there's someone called a muckbong. For our younger listeners,
it's people eating very crunchy food.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The things I learned thanks to you guys. Oh okay,
our special guest. Our interview today is with Shanna Hatfield.
Shanna is the author of Get This. You won't even
believe the real number. Let me give you a hint.
It's more than a hundred books she's written, and they
are first rate stuff, one awards, hit bestseller list, and
(02:43):
she's got a new book that's particularly special coming out
called The Bridge, and we're going to talk to her
about that and everything else.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
But first the.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
News news story number one, we've got new developments in
(03:14):
the Anthropic lawsuit. Now, we covered that lawsuit, and we
covered the settlement, which was perhaps prematurely announced not by
us but by everyone because the judge hadn't signed off
on it. Well, now he has signed off on it,
and there have been other developments as well. We reported
(03:37):
before that it looked like the settlement was going to
give three thousand dollars per book to every author whose
book was improperly treated by Anthropic, and now it sounds
like it might be less than that because somebody's got
to pay legal fees and the enormous costs involved in
a class action suit. I mean, how did this not
(04:00):
come to people's attention before anyway? So first, there is
now a searchable database you can go to so you
can find out which, if any, of your books are
included in this settlement, and I will put a link
to that in the show notes.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
It's also got.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
An explanation of the timeline, how to file a claim,
and everything else that might be involved. The settlement website
is also live now, but there's at least one more
development that you need to know about before you fill
out that claim for him, and that is you can
only make a claim if you filed for copyright protection
(04:36):
from the government when your book was published in the
first place, which is today a largely unnecessary stealth step
that most self publishers don't do. And for that matter,
it turns out many major publishers haven't been bothering either, like,
for instance, McMillan, one of the Big Five, though they
(04:56):
have said publicly that they will pay the settlement for
any of their authors that are shut out because no
copyright protection was ever filed for I mean, just fyi
in today's world, I mean legally, as soon as you
create a work, it's copyrighted, it's yours. You only file
for a copyright to prove it later if it comes up.
(05:18):
And I guess that's why it's relevant here, because if
the court's going to award a settlement, it has to
know that you're really in the class, and that means
you've got to have copyright protection, which is you know,
I had about sixty books on the list or originally,
and now it's down to about twenty five once I
narrate it down to the ones that have actually had
(05:38):
a copyright filed for them. I don't know, Laura, are
you going to file acclaim for your books?
Speaker 5 (05:45):
I don't think any of them ever had the copyright
officially registered.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, Jesse, what's your take?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I remember you said on a previous podcast that you
don't think AI should be used for creative work, and
I totally agree, But now they seem to be indirectly
paying for other people's creative work. Like if we give
you three thousand, probably actually less, that makes it all okay?
Speaker 4 (06:11):
You buying that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Here's what bothers me. One like anthropics should be paying
the legal fees and should be coming out of the settlement.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
That should be beyond the settlement.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, and two like the whole cover I think is ridiculous,
Like if it took your book, it took your book,
like I would get in I would get in legal
trouble for illegally downloading a book I did not pay for.
That's right, So why aren't why aren't they They're just
(06:40):
being able to have the ability to script. The Internet
does not give you the freedom to take the entire airnet.
And I know that because one time I download a
movie and got a letter from my cable provider saying,
we know you download an illegal movie.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Don't do it again. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
So no, it's pretty galling. We thought that this was
going to be a good thing for maybe a win
for authors, and now instead it's I don't know, it
really is plus of a win.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I mean, they've still got a lot of money, what
like a billion dollars to hand out or something, But.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Well, now, so who gets it now? Because they are
a whole heck of a lot of us that have
always been told this isn't really necessary your copyright. Well
it isn't as soon as you publish.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, And I wonder if the court and the people
involved in this really realize that there's a reason why
people haven't been filing that. You know, I understand the
court wanting, you know, some measure of proof that you're
actually a member of this class, but there needs to
be some secondary and if you didn't file for copyright protection,
(07:46):
here's what else you can do. Like Jesse's saying, you
think you know if I took one of those non
copyrighted book and published it under my name, I'd be
sued the next day.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Right, So how is this different? Yes? All right?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
News story number two two equally unencouraging. Wait, you remember
during the live writer Con broadcast we talked about some
of the cool new book clubs that are starting people
reading books alive and having retreat weekends and whatnot. Well,
it seems there are also some book club scams that
are literally stealing from writers. As if there weren't enough
(08:20):
people trying to steal from writers already.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Story goes.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Woman named Melissa Spear was offering what's now being called
the book club scam, something that many authors have received
in recent weeks, including I got an email from someone
who is at writer Con this year who was emailed
with the same scam. Lots of people have gotten it.
The person involved claim to be the quote curator of
(08:48):
a private community of over two thousand readers who devour
books like caffeine addicts in a library en quote, and
then they offered to share the person in questions book
with all those readers for a price, of course, and
turns out it's a scam. They're taking the money. They're
(09:10):
not doing anything for you. I mean, what really could
they do. Sometimes these book club scams are actually using
the name of a real book club. Other times it's
just totally fictional. This is what Victoria Strauss a Writer
Beware says, And let me say again, as we've said before,
writer Beware is your friend. It is a great website.
(09:32):
If you're questioning whether something is a scam or not,
go to writer Beware and find out.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Here's what Victoria said. Quote.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The catch, as you'll doubtless have guessed, is that the
author has to pay a fee for their appearance, like
appearing on some online interviews she's talking about, which has
been variously described as a spot fee or a spotlight fee,
or a spot securing fee, a participation fee whatever. Real
book clubs don't charge fees to their guests, do they.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
And the amount of money.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
They're asking four ranges anywhere from fifty five to like
six hundred, and some of them have very tiers and
various tiers.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And like I.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Said, I know this is not theoretical because I got
an email from someone Laura and I both know who. Basically,
you know it's tempting if you've never been interviewed before.
Then the idea of doing some kind of online interview
that you can post on YouTube and tiktoka whatever sounds cool.
On the other hand, the question he asked me was
(10:33):
they want five hundred and ninety nine dollars. You think
I'll ever make that back? And I said, no, not in.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
A million years.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I don't think you'll make one hundred dollars back. I mean,
if you just think it sounds fun, okay, fine, But
if you're thinking you're going to get that money back,
forget about it. I think, Laura, make a note. I
think we should have an entire masterclass at writer Con
next year to describe one how to mark it well
and two how to not waste money by doing things
(11:02):
that won't pay off or are just flat out scams.
And it is worth reading Victoria Strauss's entire report on this,
so I'll put a link to that in the show
notes as well. Laura, I can tell your outrage. What
are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
In the past month, another author has come to me
with not this, but something else something similar, asking me,
can this possibly be real? Is this legit? Have you
heard about this? And I go look, and it's it's
always a scam. There's always something. There's always someone trying
(11:41):
to take our money in return for promises of.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And sometimes it's hard to distinguish from legit pr because
sometimes in the world of promotion, you do do things
that aren't going to earn their money back. It's a
lost leader, or you're trying to supermote, super promote the
first book in a series. Okay, that's a calculated I
won't say gamble, that's a choice. It's totally different from
(12:05):
people waving ooh. There's a whole community of readers. I'm
going to put you in touch with Jesse. Is there
a way to stop these scams from happening?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I mean, it's true like what your parents taught you
when you were a kid, which is, if it looks
too good to be true, it probably is so like
and also at this point, like anytime I get any
email that I'm even slightly curious about, I will google
the name of the company. I will google with the
(12:35):
subject of the of the email is and usually get
a pretty good answer of whether it's a spam or not.
You know a spam or you know.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
A scam. Scams the world looking for Yeah, yeah, or
if you google them, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
I think anyone who promises you that they're going to
make your book a best seller, it's a scam.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Yeah, I can tell you that.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Yeah, that's a big red flag.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah here, it wasn't exactly best sellers. We're going to
hook you up with all these readers and you'll make
your money back.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
But no way that's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
All right, let's move to Kraft Corner today. On Craft
Corner we have longtime writer con friend Barry Friedman, whose
new book The Third and his series of humorous recollections
of his late fact father who is named Jack, which
was why the book which we can't say the title
of on this podcast, but it's Jack, Use your imagination three,
(13:34):
I'm the Father, and it has just been released on
the fourteenth. Check the show notes for a link to
that as well. In the meantime, here are Barry's thoughts
on keeping reality in your fiction.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
Craft Quarner, Hi, this is Barry Friedman. You know Red Smith,
really famous New York Times sports writer, maybe the best
New York Times sports maybe the best sports writer. Once said,
writing is easy. You just sit at a typewriter, and
open a vein. Back then, people use typewriters. You can
sit at a computer, you can set the notepad, just
open a vein. Just be careful about the blood. The
(14:12):
point is that blood is the truth.
Speaker 8 (14:15):
That's the story. And nonfiction and narrative and memoir. You
need to show people, show.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
People the blood, not just tell people what you think
of the blood. Now, Norman Mailer and I should probably
clean this up, but it's a Fretey website, free podcast.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
What do I care?
Speaker 8 (14:31):
Said that fiction is bullshit, It's all nonfiction. What that
means is everything comes from truth, from reality. When you write,
keep that reality in mind. You are bringing reality to
your reader.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
I'll give you an example, two examples. When I was younger,
my father was a great bowler. That's example one. Example two.
When I was younger, my father had one hundred and
seventy five average as a bowler. He was good enough
to join the PBA Tour, the Professional Bowlers Association.
Speaker 8 (15:02):
But men back then did not go home and tell
their wives, honey, I'm leaving Corporate America to join the
PBA Tour.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
See the difference. See the difference. In the first case,
I'm talking about the son my father the bowler. In
the second case, Jack Friedman could have been a professional buller.
Speaker 8 (15:23):
That's the difference. The world has to be hits. I
am the delivery, the deliverer of that world, in other
words reality. As a writer, I'm the waiter. I bring
it to the reader and then I get out of
(15:43):
the way.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
Good luck to you.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Thank you Barry Friedman.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Remember his new book goes on sale October fourteen.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
You can get it right now.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
All right, now, let's talk to Shanna Hatfield. Shanna Hatfield,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Hi, I am super excited to be here with you today.
Thank you so much for the invitation.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Thank you for being here. So, Shanna traditional first question,
if you could offer writers one piece of advice, what
would it be.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Believe in yourself, no matter what anybody else tells you,
believe in yourself.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah, great advice. So tell us your origin story. How
do you get started writing.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
I grew up with a.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Mom who loved to read, and she shared that with me.
She got me reading books as early as I could read.
And we lived on a farm about thirty miles from
the library, so going to library was a big deal.
Speaker 7 (16:56):
We got to go once a month and check out
as many books as they would let us.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So just that love of reading read to a love
of stories.
Speaker 7 (17:05):
And I always wanted to write.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
A book, but instead of pursuing that, I spent ten
years as a newspaper journalist, and then I switched gears
into marketing and I just really missed writing.
Speaker 7 (17:19):
And one day I'd read this book that was.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Not very well written, and it was published by a
big publishing house, and I said to my husband, why
would a publisher invest money in this? I could do
better than this, And so he just looked at me
and he said, so do it. So I sat down
and started writing my first book in the Bridge. My
book coming out is actually my one hundred and thirty
(17:43):
fourth books.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
So hotally smokes love it.
Speaker 7 (17:47):
I absolutely love it.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Okay, that detail was not in your bio one hundred
and thirty fourth Seriously, are they under multiple names?
Speaker 7 (17:57):
Nope? All under my name?
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Oh that is super impressive. Congratulations, Good for you.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
You.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
So you mentioned that you grew up on a farm,
and you've said before that that offered you many learning experiences.
Could you give us an example of that, Like, what
was it like growing up like.
Speaker 7 (18:19):
That, sure, but we all chipped in, We all helped.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
My dad when I was little, called me his sidekick,
and I went with them, you know, from the time
I was old enough to walk wherever Dad went, I
really was his tag along. And I think just watching
what a what a great work ethic my family had,
you know, that taught me a lot. And just that
(18:47):
drive to work hard was a big thing. And just
to be good people, you know, to be caring, to
be part of the community. All of that were lessons
I learned when I was a child held and I
feel like that really carries over into the books I write.
That sense of community and that sense of being part
of something bigger than just yourself, and that drive to
(19:12):
work really hard and to do good.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Yeah. Very nice. I think a lot of authors kind
of feel that way, that they we just seem to
run into just a lot of really good people when
we're interviewing here. So your latest book, your new one,
The Bridge, appears to be a little bit of a departure,
but it involves a series character are terrains tell us
(19:41):
about that?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so the Bridge is a little different. I normally
write historical and contemporary sweet and wholesomer robiances. I mean
they're just the warm, fuzzy, you know, heartwarming and this
book has a definite heartwarming ending. But they're the whole
suspense and drama and all this other stuff going on
(20:04):
in this one.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
And Archer is our lead character.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
He's a police sergeant who excels it negotiating, and so
he has worked hard all year long to be able
to have Christmas off with his wife and he's all
set to enjoy a very breastful Christmas Eve until his
wife gets home from work and you know, he's just
kicked back this bowl of fruity cereal that he never
(20:30):
gets to eat and just having a peaceful morning when
his boss calls and it's like, we have a situation,
we need to here, And he doesn't pause, he doesn't hesitate,
he goes and I just I love that Archer is
so dedicated, so loyal and really just a caring guy,
like he knows he can help, so he does.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
So would you say it's fair to call this a
Christmas novel? And people listening to this podcast are going
to be thinking it's October, but that's when that's when
people release Christmas novels, right, even though we're still a
few weeks from Halloween.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah, well, I had a book called The Midnight Before Christmas.
There's a Christmas book came out in October, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Like, what are they doing?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
But you know, I guess they know, right, And you've
done Christmas books before, right, You've got a series of them.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yes, yes, yeah, I love writing Christmas stories, so I
usually released one, if not more, during the holiday season.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
That's smart.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I could definitely call The Bridge a Christmas story because
the whole story takes place on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Your back cover says, a Christmas Eve that changes everything.
So that's that's like the Midnight before Christmas. Oh my gosh,
that's that's so people are going to leave this with
a Christmas spirit, a Christmas feeling. Is that fair to
say it is?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I think you get the Christmas feeling more so towards
the end of the book than at the beginning. The
beginning's all the person in crisis, Archer responding, you know,
things happening on the bridge, so there's not a lot
of festive cheer in that. But as you progress in
the story, I think it just wraps readers up in
(22:24):
that whole feeling of Christmas and giving and sharing and hope.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Right, well, don't diss the ending.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I was telling you this before we started recording, but
I got the copy and started reading last night, and
let me put this way, when I finally fell asleep,
it wasn't because the book was boring. It's exceptionally immersive
and a very good read.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I was saying.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It's a departure because in the past, you've written a
lot of contemporary novels, right, which are both funny and sexy.
Is you might expect that you're called well maybe not
since you called them clean romances, but they kind of are, right,
And you've done historical westerns. That's the Summer Creek series, right.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
Summer Boast contemp.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I have Penileton Petticoats and Baker City brides or those.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Are the westerns. Okay, what can you just not settle
on a genre? What's the deal here?
Speaker 7 (23:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Writing in different genres just I have a very active imagination,
and so it helps me be more creative, I think,
because I can write a historical and then I can
write a contemporary, or I can write a beach story,
or I can write about cowboys or.
Speaker 7 (23:41):
You know, just keep things interesting for me.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, well it's worked for one hundred and thirty four
books now, I guess so can't really complain. But do
you have editors or agents cautioning you against genre jumping,
that you know you'll lose your audience or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
When I was just getting started, you know, I read
all the advice I could find in the excite not
to genres.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
But it's like, well, let's just try it. See what happened.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So yeah, nothing bad happened, Good things happened, so I
kept doing it.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
The other cool thing I plugged out of your bio
cool because I could relate to it, is that you
like to cook, apparently, and particularly enjoy experimenting with new recipes.
So does that inform or enhance your writing or is
it just a distraction you're writing when you'd rather be cooking,
or the other way around.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
No, Actually I cook. I don't mind cooking, but what
I love to do is bake. I am a.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That would be a third career choice. If I couldn't
write or plan parties, that would be number four. And
I do like to experiment with recipes. I'm always thinking about,
well this was good, But what if I did this
to it and tweak it this way or add this ingredient.
And because I love to make every book that I
write has a recipe at the back of it, and
(25:07):
so it's fun for me to incorporate that recipe in
some way in a scene.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
With the character.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So I guess you could say that, Yeah, my love
for that does carry into my books. And for the
most part, neither one is a distraction to the other.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
They just compliment each other.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
That is so fun. Okay, with one hundred and thirty
four books in your backlist, I've got to know what
is your process? Like do you outline, do you just
kind of work from notes? Do you just sit down
and open up your computer and start typing?
Speaker 7 (25:42):
How do you approach a new project?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I am a super visual person, So my step one
is I create a Pinterest board for each book, and
then I'm adding visual things like when I decide what
the characters are going to look like, I've usually have
already found like I know they want brown hair and
blue eyes or whatever, so I start looking for a
(26:08):
face that matches that, and so I put all that
into my Pinterest board.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
So that's step one. For me, I don't outline.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I'm very much a panster, like I know where I
want the story to start and where I want it
to end, but everything in between just kind of flows.
I feel very fortunate my characters just whisper to me
a lot, like I want to do this or no,
don't let them do that. So, you know, I feel
like once I get immersed in it, the characters are
(26:37):
pretty chatty and they help guide me where we need
to go to reach the happy ending.
Speaker 7 (26:43):
I do have a great editor team.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There's four different editors that I use, just depending on
which one's available.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
When I have a book ready to edit, so.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It usually it's nice around three weeks to just get
the first draft hammered out, and then the editing process
is another anywhere from four to six weeks usually, so
it takes about two to three months for me to
have a book ready to release.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Wow, wow, that's really impressive. And then what does a
typical writing day look like for you?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
If I am in writing mode and not working on
other stuff, I can spend anywhere from twelve to sometime
sixteen hours writing.
Speaker 7 (27:32):
I just get in my zone and I wow.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
That's remarkable. Wow, did you say, twelve to.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Sixteen, which explains the whole one hundred and thirty four
published books.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Yeah, I think that broke my brain a little bit.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
That's really.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
That's a lot.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
I was nodding away and then I was like, wait,
what did she just say?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, you know I've only got sixty is it sixty
six books? You're making me feel like a real underachiever here, Shannis.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Awesome you have.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Well, what are some of the things that you have
learned so far in your writing journey. It's something that
you might like to share with aspiring authors who might
be listening.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
I think I think you need to listen to your heart.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Like when I first got started, I, like I said,
did all this research and all these you know authors
who were successful. I tried doing all the different things
they said to do, and you know, some of them
are are at odds with each other, like you should
do this and you should do that, and I think
you just end up confused. So I think it's good
(28:47):
to try things and figure out what works for you,
what process works for you. If you're you don't have
to outline if it doesn't work for you, which I
did try. I took a class and it was all
about outlining, because I thought I was doing something wrong
when I first got started writing, because I didn't outline.
So I took a class and I spent I can't
(29:09):
even tell you how long outlining this whole book in
depth outline. So then three weeks later I had still
like written three pages because I just felt so confined,
like my juices weren't flowing. I could not write anything,
and so I threw out the outline and finished the book,
and from going on like, I am not an outliner.
(29:31):
I cannot do that. I have to just fly by
the seat of my pants. But so to capsulize all
my rambling is do what works for you, figure out
what works for you, and then do that and then
do it again.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I do like it. I do like that advice, but
I like that you tried it.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
I'm sad that you.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Felt like you were doing something wrong, but I like
that you tried it because I think that we need
to try a lot of different things before we know
what works the best for us exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, well, you've clearly found something that works for you, Shanna,
And unfortunately I've got to wrap this up. But one
more question first, what will be coming out from you next.
What can we be watching for.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I have a new book in my Summer Creek series
that you mentioned. It's coming October thirtieth. It's a rom
com about a farmer and a girl from Hollywood who
inherits a house next door. And then I'm going to
have four new Christmas books out for the holiday season.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Well that'll give you through the next few months. Anyway, right,
let's have you back for your one hundred and fiftieth,
which will probably.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Be in a weekend or something.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Thank you, Shanna.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
Speaker 7 (30:56):
Thank you so much for inviting me. It's going to
joy to be here in Debt.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Bye bye.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Now just a few parting words. We have just gotten
past the writer Con conference. Of course there'll be another
one next year on Labor Day weekend, but we have
just posted information about next year's writer Con Cruise, which
will be in April of next year, no March of
next year. This time we're leaving from Fort Lauderdale for
(31:24):
an eight day, eight day cruise through the Eastern Caribbean.
That's a new destination for us, a lot of new
tropical vistas, like what all the Leeward Islands and other
things I've certainly never been to. So beautiful scenery, warm weather,
plus over twenty hours of writing instruction from Laura and I,
(31:44):
plus an onborn agent who will happily talk to every participant.
Will not just be lecturing, We'll be talking to you
about your work in progress if you have one, so
will the agent. So don't miss out. Plan to be
with us March seventh to fifteenth. Visit the writer Con
website for more information. Let me also remind you that
(32:06):
writer Con has its own newsletter, Just send out a
new issue is completely free on substack. Got wonderful articles
on breaking issues like AI and writing fiction, producing audio books,
and also have news about new agents, new publishing venues.
Go to substack search for writer Con, sign up for
(32:30):
this free website. All right, until next time, keep writing
and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
See you next time.
This week on the writer Con podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Believing yourself don't matter. Run anybody else tells you believe
in yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to writer Coon, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award
winning author of the want LNN Files book series.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
us today. We are back for our fifth season of
writer Con, which is actually a lot more writer Con
than it sounds like. I mean, we've done eighteen conferences,
plus this is our one hundred and ninety sixth episode
(00:46):
of this podcast. I didn't actually start breaking them down
into seasons until Laura joined the team, and now I
just do it every year as we start fresh again
after the writer Con break. And you know what that means.
It means we're just a few episodes. It's away from
our two hundredth episode. I mean, it seems like we
should do something special to celebrate that. Anybody have any ideas, Lara, Jesse,
(01:10):
what do.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
You think James Patterson appearance.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
That would be special? Might have trouble booking, but I
will get on that.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Lara. What do you think?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Hmm, maybe we should have cake next time.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Well that's a lot easier than getting James Patterson that
much is for a.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Certain It's not like he's busy writing.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
Oh got him.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
We could all wear party hats. Although it'll be December,
so you know it's not quite but practically our Christmas episode.
I guess if we skipped one, it could be our
Christmas episode. But nah, we'll do two hundred and let
two one everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, people love hearing people eat, so listen, there are
there are, there is any people who enjoy hearing people eat.
So we get some new new listeners that way.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
How can that be? Is that like a podcast? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
That's people talking softly, not chowing.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I believe there's someone called a muckbong. For our younger listeners,
it's people eating very crunchy food.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The things I learned thanks to you guys. Oh okay,
our special guest. Our interview today is with Shanna Hatfield.
Shanna is the author of Get This. You won't even
believe the real number. Let me give you a hint.
It's more than a hundred books she's written, and they
are first rate stuff, one awards, hit bestseller list, and
(02:43):
she's got a new book that's particularly special coming out
called The Bridge, and we're going to talk to her
about that and everything else.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
But first the.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
News news story number one, we've got new developments in
(03:14):
the Anthropic lawsuit. Now, we covered that lawsuit, and we
covered the settlement, which was perhaps prematurely announced not by
us but by everyone because the judge hadn't signed off
on it. Well, now he has signed off on it,
and there have been other developments as well. We reported
(03:37):
before that it looked like the settlement was going to
give three thousand dollars per book to every author whose
book was improperly treated by Anthropic, and now it sounds
like it might be less than that because somebody's got
to pay legal fees and the enormous costs involved in
a class action suit. I mean, how did this not
(04:00):
come to people's attention before anyway? So first, there is
now a searchable database you can go to so you
can find out which, if any, of your books are
included in this settlement, and I will put a link
to that in the show notes.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
It's also got.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
An explanation of the timeline, how to file a claim,
and everything else that might be involved. The settlement website
is also live now, but there's at least one more
development that you need to know about before you fill
out that claim for him, and that is you can
only make a claim if you filed for copyright protection
(04:36):
from the government when your book was published in the
first place, which is today a largely unnecessary stealth step
that most self publishers don't do. And for that matter,
it turns out many major publishers haven't been bothering either, like,
for instance, McMillan, one of the Big Five, though they
(04:56):
have said publicly that they will pay the settlement for
any of their authors that are shut out because no
copyright protection was ever filed for I mean, just fyi
in today's world, I mean legally, as soon as you
create a work, it's copyrighted, it's yours. You only file
for a copyright to prove it later if it comes up.
(05:18):
And I guess that's why it's relevant here, because if
the court's going to award a settlement, it has to
know that you're really in the class, and that means
you've got to have copyright protection, which is you know,
I had about sixty books on the list or originally,
and now it's down to about twenty five once I
narrate it down to the ones that have actually had
(05:38):
a copyright filed for them. I don't know, Laura, are
you going to file acclaim for your books?
Speaker 5 (05:45):
I don't think any of them ever had the copyright
officially registered.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, Jesse, what's your take?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I remember you said on a previous podcast that you
don't think AI should be used for creative work, and
I totally agree, But now they seem to be indirectly
paying for other people's creative work. Like if we give
you three thousand, probably actually less, that makes it all okay?
Speaker 4 (06:11):
You buying that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Here's what bothers me. One like anthropics should be paying
the legal fees and should be coming out of the settlement.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
That should be beyond the settlement.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, and two like the whole cover I think is ridiculous,
Like if it took your book, it took your book,
like I would get in I would get in legal
trouble for illegally downloading a book I did not pay for.
That's right, So why aren't why aren't they They're just
(06:40):
being able to have the ability to script. The Internet
does not give you the freedom to take the entire airnet.
And I know that because one time I download a
movie and got a letter from my cable provider saying,
we know you download an illegal movie.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Don't do it again. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
So no, it's pretty galling. We thought that this was
going to be a good thing for maybe a win
for authors, and now instead it's I don't know, it
really is plus of a win.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I mean, they've still got a lot of money, what
like a billion dollars to hand out or something, But.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Well, now, so who gets it now? Because they are
a whole heck of a lot of us that have
always been told this isn't really necessary your copyright. Well
it isn't as soon as you publish.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, And I wonder if the court and the people
involved in this really realize that there's a reason why
people haven't been filing that. You know, I understand the
court wanting, you know, some measure of proof that you're
actually a member of this class, but there needs to
be some secondary and if you didn't file for copyright protection,
(07:46):
here's what else you can do. Like Jesse's saying, you
think you know if I took one of those non
copyrighted book and published it under my name, I'd be
sued the next day.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Right, So how is this different? Yes? All right?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
News story number two two equally unencouraging. Wait, you remember
during the live writer Con broadcast we talked about some
of the cool new book clubs that are starting people
reading books alive and having retreat weekends and whatnot. Well,
it seems there are also some book club scams that
are literally stealing from writers. As if there weren't enough
(08:20):
people trying to steal from writers already.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Story goes.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Woman named Melissa Spear was offering what's now being called
the book club scam, something that many authors have received
in recent weeks, including I got an email from someone
who is at writer Con this year who was emailed
with the same scam. Lots of people have gotten it.
The person involved claim to be the quote curator of
(08:48):
a private community of over two thousand readers who devour
books like caffeine addicts in a library en quote, and
then they offered to share the person in questions book
with all those readers for a price, of course, and
turns out it's a scam. They're taking the money. They're
(09:10):
not doing anything for you. I mean, what really could
they do. Sometimes these book club scams are actually using
the name of a real book club. Other times it's
just totally fictional. This is what Victoria Strauss a Writer
Beware says, And let me say again, as we've said before,
writer Beware is your friend. It is a great website.
(09:32):
If you're questioning whether something is a scam or not,
go to writer Beware and find out.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Here's what Victoria said. Quote.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The catch, as you'll doubtless have guessed, is that the
author has to pay a fee for their appearance, like
appearing on some online interviews she's talking about, which has
been variously described as a spot fee or a spotlight fee,
or a spot securing fee, a participation fee whatever. Real
book clubs don't charge fees to their guests, do they.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
And the amount of money.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
They're asking four ranges anywhere from fifty five to like
six hundred, and some of them have very tiers and
various tiers.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And like I.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Said, I know this is not theoretical because I got
an email from someone Laura and I both know who. Basically,
you know it's tempting if you've never been interviewed before.
Then the idea of doing some kind of online interview
that you can post on YouTube and tiktoka whatever sounds cool.
On the other hand, the question he asked me was
(10:33):
they want five hundred and ninety nine dollars. You think
I'll ever make that back? And I said, no, not in.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
A million years.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I don't think you'll make one hundred dollars back. I mean,
if you just think it sounds fun, okay, fine, But
if you're thinking you're going to get that money back,
forget about it. I think, Laura, make a note. I
think we should have an entire masterclass at writer Con
next year to describe one how to mark it well
and two how to not waste money by doing things
(11:02):
that won't pay off or are just flat out scams.
And it is worth reading Victoria Strauss's entire report on this,
so I'll put a link to that in the show
notes as well. Laura, I can tell your outrage. What
are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
In the past month, another author has come to me
with not this, but something else something similar, asking me,
can this possibly be real? Is this legit? Have you
heard about this? And I go look, and it's it's
always a scam. There's always something. There's always someone trying
(11:41):
to take our money in return for promises of.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And sometimes it's hard to distinguish from legit pr because
sometimes in the world of promotion, you do do things
that aren't going to earn their money back. It's a
lost leader, or you're trying to supermote, super promote the
first book in a series. Okay, that's a calculated I
won't say gamble, that's a choice. It's totally different from
(12:05):
people waving ooh. There's a whole community of readers. I'm
going to put you in touch with Jesse. Is there
a way to stop these scams from happening?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I mean, it's true like what your parents taught you
when you were a kid, which is, if it looks
too good to be true, it probably is so like
and also at this point, like anytime I get any
email that I'm even slightly curious about, I will google
the name of the company. I will google with the
(12:35):
subject of the of the email is and usually get
a pretty good answer of whether it's a spam or not.
You know a spam or you know.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
A scam. Scams the world looking for Yeah, yeah, or
if you google them, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
I think anyone who promises you that they're going to
make your book a best seller, it's a scam.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Yeah, I can tell you that.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Yeah, that's a big red flag.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah here, it wasn't exactly best sellers. We're going to
hook you up with all these readers and you'll make
your money back.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
But no way that's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
All right, let's move to Kraft Corner today. On Craft
Corner we have longtime writer con friend Barry Friedman, whose
new book The Third and his series of humorous recollections
of his late fact father who is named Jack, which
was why the book which we can't say the title
of on this podcast, but it's Jack, Use your imagination three,
(13:34):
I'm the Father, and it has just been released on
the fourteenth. Check the show notes for a link to
that as well. In the meantime, here are Barry's thoughts
on keeping reality in your fiction.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
Craft Quarner, Hi, this is Barry Friedman. You know Red Smith,
really famous New York Times sports writer, maybe the best
New York Times sports maybe the best sports writer. Once said,
writing is easy. You just sit at a typewriter, and
open a vein. Back then, people use typewriters. You can
sit at a computer, you can set the notepad, just
open a vein. Just be careful about the blood. The
(14:12):
point is that blood is the truth.
Speaker 8 (14:15):
That's the story. And nonfiction and narrative and memoir. You
need to show people, show.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
People the blood, not just tell people what you think
of the blood. Now, Norman Mailer and I should probably
clean this up, but it's a Fretey website, free podcast.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
What do I care?
Speaker 8 (14:31):
Said that fiction is bullshit, It's all nonfiction. What that
means is everything comes from truth, from reality. When you write,
keep that reality in mind. You are bringing reality to
your reader.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
I'll give you an example, two examples. When I was younger,
my father was a great bowler. That's example one. Example two.
When I was younger, my father had one hundred and
seventy five average as a bowler. He was good enough
to join the PBA Tour, the Professional Bowlers Association.
Speaker 8 (15:02):
But men back then did not go home and tell
their wives, honey, I'm leaving Corporate America to join the
PBA Tour.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
See the difference. See the difference. In the first case,
I'm talking about the son my father the bowler. In
the second case, Jack Friedman could have been a professional buller.
Speaker 8 (15:23):
That's the difference. The world has to be hits. I
am the delivery, the deliverer of that world, in other
words reality. As a writer, I'm the waiter. I bring
it to the reader and then I get out of
(15:43):
the way.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
Good luck to you.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Thank you Barry Friedman.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Remember his new book goes on sale October fourteen.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
You can get it right now.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
All right, now, let's talk to Shanna Hatfield. Shanna Hatfield,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Hi, I am super excited to be here with you today.
Thank you so much for the invitation.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Thank you for being here. So, Shanna traditional first question,
if you could offer writers one piece of advice, what
would it be.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Believe in yourself, no matter what anybody else tells you,
believe in yourself.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah, great advice. So tell us your origin story. How
do you get started writing.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
I grew up with a.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Mom who loved to read, and she shared that with me.
She got me reading books as early as I could read.
And we lived on a farm about thirty miles from
the library, so going to library was a big deal.
Speaker 7 (16:56):
We got to go once a month and check out
as many books as they would let us.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So just that love of reading read to a love
of stories.
Speaker 7 (17:05):
And I always wanted to write.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
A book, but instead of pursuing that, I spent ten
years as a newspaper journalist, and then I switched gears
into marketing and I just really missed writing.
Speaker 7 (17:19):
And one day I'd read this book that was.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Not very well written, and it was published by a
big publishing house, and I said to my husband, why
would a publisher invest money in this? I could do
better than this, And so he just looked at me
and he said, so do it. So I sat down
and started writing my first book in the Bridge. My
book coming out is actually my one hundred and thirty
(17:43):
fourth books.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
So hotally smokes love it.
Speaker 7 (17:47):
I absolutely love it.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Okay, that detail was not in your bio one hundred
and thirty fourth Seriously, are they under multiple names?
Speaker 7 (17:57):
Nope? All under my name?
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Oh that is super impressive. Congratulations, Good for you.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
You.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
So you mentioned that you grew up on a farm,
and you've said before that that offered you many learning experiences.
Could you give us an example of that, Like, what
was it like growing up like.
Speaker 7 (18:19):
That, sure, but we all chipped in, We all helped.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
My dad when I was little, called me his sidekick,
and I went with them, you know, from the time
I was old enough to walk wherever Dad went, I
really was his tag along. And I think just watching
what a what a great work ethic my family had,
you know, that taught me a lot. And just that
(18:47):
drive to work hard was a big thing. And just
to be good people, you know, to be caring, to
be part of the community. All of that were lessons
I learned when I was a child held and I
feel like that really carries over into the books I write.
That sense of community and that sense of being part
of something bigger than just yourself, and that drive to
(19:12):
work really hard and to do good.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Yeah. Very nice. I think a lot of authors kind
of feel that way, that they we just seem to
run into just a lot of really good people when
we're interviewing here. So your latest book, your new one,
The Bridge, appears to be a little bit of a departure,
but it involves a series character are terrains tell us
(19:41):
about that?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so the Bridge is a little different. I normally
write historical and contemporary sweet and wholesomer robiances. I mean
they're just the warm, fuzzy, you know, heartwarming and this
book has a definite heartwarming ending. But they're the whole
suspense and drama and all this other stuff going on
(20:04):
in this one.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
And Archer is our lead character.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
He's a police sergeant who excels it negotiating, and so
he has worked hard all year long to be able
to have Christmas off with his wife and he's all
set to enjoy a very breastful Christmas Eve until his
wife gets home from work and you know, he's just
kicked back this bowl of fruity cereal that he never
(20:30):
gets to eat and just having a peaceful morning when
his boss calls and it's like, we have a situation,
we need to here, And he doesn't pause, he doesn't hesitate,
he goes and I just I love that Archer is
so dedicated, so loyal and really just a caring guy,
like he knows he can help, so he does.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
So would you say it's fair to call this a
Christmas novel? And people listening to this podcast are going
to be thinking it's October, but that's when that's when
people release Christmas novels, right, even though we're still a
few weeks from Halloween.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah, well, I had a book called The Midnight Before Christmas.
There's a Christmas book came out in October, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Like, what are they doing?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
But you know, I guess they know, right, And you've
done Christmas books before, right, You've got a series of them.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yes, yes, yeah, I love writing Christmas stories, so I
usually released one, if not more, during the holiday season.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
That's smart.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I could definitely call The Bridge a Christmas story because
the whole story takes place on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Your back cover says, a Christmas Eve that changes everything.
So that's that's like the Midnight before Christmas. Oh my gosh,
that's that's so people are going to leave this with
a Christmas spirit, a Christmas feeling. Is that fair to
say it is?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I think you get the Christmas feeling more so towards
the end of the book than at the beginning. The
beginning's all the person in crisis, Archer responding, you know,
things happening on the bridge, so there's not a lot
of festive cheer in that. But as you progress in
the story, I think it just wraps readers up in
(22:24):
that whole feeling of Christmas and giving and sharing and hope.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Right, well, don't diss the ending.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I was telling you this before we started recording, but
I got the copy and started reading last night, and
let me put this way, when I finally fell asleep,
it wasn't because the book was boring. It's exceptionally immersive
and a very good read.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I was saying.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It's a departure because in the past, you've written a
lot of contemporary novels, right, which are both funny and sexy.
Is you might expect that you're called well maybe not
since you called them clean romances, but they kind of are, right,
And you've done historical westerns. That's the Summer Creek series, right.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
Summer Boast contemp.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I have Penileton Petticoats and Baker City brides or those.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Are the westerns. Okay, what can you just not settle
on a genre? What's the deal here?
Speaker 7 (23:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Writing in different genres just I have a very active imagination,
and so it helps me be more creative, I think,
because I can write a historical and then I can
write a contemporary, or I can write a beach story,
or I can write about cowboys or.
Speaker 7 (23:41):
You know, just keep things interesting for me.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, well it's worked for one hundred and thirty four
books now, I guess so can't really complain. But do
you have editors or agents cautioning you against genre jumping,
that you know you'll lose your audience or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
When I was just getting started, you know, I read
all the advice I could find in the excite not
to genres.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
But it's like, well, let's just try it. See what happened.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So yeah, nothing bad happened, Good things happened, so I
kept doing it.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
The other cool thing I plugged out of your bio
cool because I could relate to it, is that you
like to cook, apparently, and particularly enjoy experimenting with new recipes.
So does that inform or enhance your writing or is
it just a distraction you're writing when you'd rather be cooking,
or the other way around.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
No, Actually I cook. I don't mind cooking, but what
I love to do is bake. I am a.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That would be a third career choice. If I couldn't
write or plan parties, that would be number four. And
I do like to experiment with recipes. I'm always thinking about,
well this was good, But what if I did this
to it and tweak it this way or add this ingredient.
And because I love to make every book that I
write has a recipe at the back of it, and
(25:07):
so it's fun for me to incorporate that recipe in
some way in a scene.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
With the character.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So I guess you could say that, Yeah, my love
for that does carry into my books. And for the
most part, neither one is a distraction to the other.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
They just compliment each other.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
That is so fun. Okay, with one hundred and thirty
four books in your backlist, I've got to know what
is your process? Like do you outline, do you just
kind of work from notes? Do you just sit down
and open up your computer and start typing?
Speaker 7 (25:42):
How do you approach a new project?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I am a super visual person, So my step one
is I create a Pinterest board for each book, and
then I'm adding visual things like when I decide what
the characters are going to look like, I've usually have
already found like I know they want brown hair and
blue eyes or whatever, so I start looking for a
(26:08):
face that matches that, and so I put all that
into my Pinterest board.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
So that's step one. For me, I don't outline.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I'm very much a panster, like I know where I
want the story to start and where I want it
to end, but everything in between just kind of flows.
I feel very fortunate my characters just whisper to me
a lot, like I want to do this or no,
don't let them do that. So, you know, I feel
like once I get immersed in it, the characters are
(26:37):
pretty chatty and they help guide me where we need
to go to reach the happy ending.
Speaker 7 (26:43):
I do have a great editor team.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There's four different editors that I use, just depending on
which one's available.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
When I have a book ready to edit, so.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It usually it's nice around three weeks to just get
the first draft hammered out, and then the editing process
is another anywhere from four to six weeks usually, so
it takes about two to three months for me to
have a book ready to release.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Wow, wow, that's really impressive. And then what does a
typical writing day look like for you?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
If I am in writing mode and not working on
other stuff, I can spend anywhere from twelve to sometime
sixteen hours writing.
Speaker 7 (27:32):
I just get in my zone and I wow.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
That's remarkable. Wow, did you say, twelve to.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Sixteen, which explains the whole one hundred and thirty four
published books.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Yeah, I think that broke my brain a little bit.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
That's really.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
That's a lot.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
I was nodding away and then I was like, wait,
what did she just say?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, you know I've only got sixty is it sixty
six books? You're making me feel like a real underachiever here, Shannis.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Awesome you have.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Well, what are some of the things that you have
learned so far in your writing journey. It's something that
you might like to share with aspiring authors who might
be listening.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
I think I think you need to listen to your heart.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Like when I first got started, I, like I said,
did all this research and all these you know authors
who were successful. I tried doing all the different things
they said to do, and you know, some of them
are are at odds with each other, like you should
do this and you should do that, and I think
you just end up confused. So I think it's good
(28:47):
to try things and figure out what works for you,
what process works for you. If you're you don't have
to outline if it doesn't work for you, which I
did try. I took a class and it was all
about outlining, because I thought I was doing something wrong
when I first got started writing, because I didn't outline.
So I took a class and I spent I can't
(29:09):
even tell you how long outlining this whole book in
depth outline. So then three weeks later I had still
like written three pages because I just felt so confined,
like my juices weren't flowing. I could not write anything,
and so I threw out the outline and finished the book,
and from going on like, I am not an outliner.
(29:31):
I cannot do that. I have to just fly by
the seat of my pants. But so to capsulize all
my rambling is do what works for you, figure out
what works for you, and then do that and then
do it again.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I do like it. I do like that advice, but
I like that you tried it.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
I'm sad that you.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Felt like you were doing something wrong, but I like
that you tried it because I think that we need
to try a lot of different things before we know
what works the best for us exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, well, you've clearly found something that works for you, Shanna,
And unfortunately I've got to wrap this up. But one
more question first, what will be coming out from you next.
What can we be watching for.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I have a new book in my Summer Creek series
that you mentioned. It's coming October thirtieth. It's a rom
com about a farmer and a girl from Hollywood who
inherits a house next door. And then I'm going to
have four new Christmas books out for the holiday season.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Well that'll give you through the next few months. Anyway, right,
let's have you back for your one hundred and fiftieth,
which will probably.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Be in a weekend or something.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Thank you, Shanna.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
Speaker 7 (30:56):
Thank you so much for inviting me. It's going to
joy to be here in Debt.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Bye bye.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Now just a few parting words. We have just gotten
past the writer Con conference. Of course there'll be another
one next year on Labor Day weekend, but we have
just posted information about next year's writer Con Cruise, which
will be in April of next year, no March of
next year. This time we're leaving from Fort Lauderdale for
(31:24):
an eight day, eight day cruise through the Eastern Caribbean.
That's a new destination for us, a lot of new
tropical vistas, like what all the Leeward Islands and other
things I've certainly never been to. So beautiful scenery, warm weather,
plus over twenty hours of writing instruction from Laura and I,
(31:44):
plus an onborn agent who will happily talk to every participant.
Will not just be lecturing, We'll be talking to you
about your work in progress if you have one, so
will the agent. So don't miss out. Plan to be
with us March seventh to fifteenth. Visit the writer Con
website for more information. Let me also remind you that
(32:06):
writer Con has its own newsletter, Just send out a
new issue is completely free on substack. Got wonderful articles
on breaking issues like AI and writing fiction, producing audio books,
and also have news about new agents, new publishing venues.
Go to substack search for writer Con, sign up for
(32:30):
this free website. All right, until next time, keep writing
and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
See you next time.
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