October 8, 2025 • 31 mins
This episode was recorded LIVE at WriterCon 2025 on August 31, 2025. Our fifth season will begin next week. See you there!
Bestselling authors William and Lara Bernhardt discuss the latest news from the book world, offer writing tips, and interview Laurie L Dove (Mask of the Deer Woman) and Nova McBee (Calculated), the keynote speakers for WriterCon 2025.
Opening Thoughts
We're recording LIVE from the third day of WriterCon 2025. Lara enjoys the fun, especially karaoke night. Jesse is disgruntled because he found James Patterson books in his hotel room.
News
1) Enterpreneur Replaces Speed Dating with Read Dating
2) New Platform Allows you to Choose Your Own Adventure in Famous Fictional Worlds
3) Stephen King and Benjamin Percy Launch Novel Serialized in Newspaper Format
Interview with Laurie L Dove and Nova McBee
Parting Words
Sorry to tell you, but if you’re listening to this at home, you have missed WriterCon 2025. But there will be another one in 2026 during Labor Day weekend (Sept 4-7, 2026), so start making your plans now. www.writercon.com.
WriterCon has its own free newsletter and you don’t want to miss the next issue, which has wonderful articles and news about breaking issues. Go to Substack and search for WriterCon.
And if you'd like a daily dose of WriterCon, join our Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/113141678727273
Bestselling authors William and Lara Bernhardt discuss the latest news from the book world, offer writing tips, and interview Laurie L Dove (Mask of the Deer Woman) and Nova McBee (Calculated), the keynote speakers for WriterCon 2025.
Opening Thoughts
We're recording LIVE from the third day of WriterCon 2025. Lara enjoys the fun, especially karaoke night. Jesse is disgruntled because he found James Patterson books in his hotel room.
News
1) Enterpreneur Replaces Speed Dating with Read Dating
2) New Platform Allows you to Choose Your Own Adventure in Famous Fictional Worlds
3) Stephen King and Benjamin Percy Launch Novel Serialized in Newspaper Format
Interview with Laurie L Dove and Nova McBee
Parting Words
Sorry to tell you, but if you’re listening to this at home, you have missed WriterCon 2025. But there will be another one in 2026 during Labor Day weekend (Sept 4-7, 2026), so start making your plans now. www.writercon.com.
WriterCon has its own free newsletter and you don’t want to miss the next issue, which has wonderful articles and news about breaking issues. Go to Substack and search for WriterCon.
And if you'd like a daily dose of WriterCon, join our Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/113141678727273
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on the writer Con podcast, I would just.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Tell you to not quit under any circumstances. I would
tell you to keep.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
You know, when you love your project, it's hard to
solve writing it, and so don't try to write somebody
else's project. Don't try to write the trend. Write what
you love and the books you want to see come
into the world.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award
winning author of the want Ln Files book series.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. We are recording
live from writer Con twenty twenty five. We are having
a great time. We have record attendants this year, filling
the halls of the scurb in Hilton. We have a
(01:00):
sixty speakers and over one hundred different breakout sessions. We
got people from twenty two different states and even some
foreign countries like New Zealand, exhibitors, sponsors. We've had breakout
sessions and roundtables and we're not quite done yet. This
afternoon at three were playing writer con Jeopardy always the highlight,
(01:22):
or at least for me. No, the highlight was last
night doing karaoke. I think, yes, yes, Lara, I knew
you had a beautiful singing voice. But are you impressed
as impressed as I am about how many talented seekers,
singers we have within this supposedly introverted group of writers.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
I get blown away every year, and it's always the
quiet ones. They come out and sing and you just
get blown away. I love it. We have such a
talented group of people with.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Us and Jesse. As you know, we are back, actually
after an absence, back at the Scurvi in Hilton. How
are you enjoying the new venue? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I love the new venue except for two very important facts. One,
the hot tub is gone, just gone. And secondly, and
most importantly, in my room was not one, not two,
but three James Patterson novels. Three How dare they? And
(02:29):
in the spirit of this conference, and you know what
AI tools we should and should I use? I made
a little video about what I feel about having three
James Patterson novels in my room, So I hope you enjoy.
It's short. There we go.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Is there a hobbit inside?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
The trash can, the book pops up. Yeah, her arm
goes server of course, into the trash can.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Beautiful.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
It's just it's just demonstrating that you just can't get
rid of them. They think it's like your's like your
Monkey's Podjess.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's true. Yeah, just James Parrison finds me everywhere I go. James,
I know you're watching. I know your people are watching.
I'm coming for you.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
For those of you who don't listen to the podcast,
this is a long standing feud, but I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
To go in one directional feud that I'm trying. I'm
just trying to guess people to respond because I would
help our numbers.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So right, Well, today we are doing a joint interview
with both of our keynote speakers at Ryder Con. And
that's the author of the best selling novel Mask of
the Dear Woman. That's Laurie L. Dove and last night's
keynote Nova McBee, the author of the young adult Calculated series.
(03:53):
They are both waiting and I are all ready to
be interviewed and I can't wait to do that. But
first the.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
News I worked it in this year. Here we go.
Hold on got to hit play again.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
News story number one. Now I should explain that since
this is writer con I you know, for once, no Amazon,
no AI, We're going to focus on fun things in
the writing world. Okay, so news story number.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
One, Hold on, did we want to bring our guests
on for the new stories?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yeah, absolutely, Laurie, our guests come on up here. So
news story number one. I'm pretty proud of this. Wait
for this. People are replacing speed dating with read dating.
(04:58):
All right. Last time you remember, we reported on people
forming audiobook writing clubs. Now we're seeing this whole new
form of social interaction for diehard introverted readers, the read dating,
which makes perfect sense to me because, after all, as
everybody in this room knows, reading is sexy, right, That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
That's a brilliant idea.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
And who wants to date somebody who doesn't read? I mean,
for peoples sake. So Jess Evans, the founder of Bova,
thought gen Z was getting kind of bored with dating apps,
so she curated something for book levers. The idea is
to gather people in someplace, usually a bookstore, and tell
them to bring a copy of their favorite book, hand
(05:45):
it out, perhaps with your phone number scrawled in the
front of the book. Give it to someone and you know,
see if you hit it off. So you've met someone,
you've mingled, and perhaps you like the same kind of books,
so you can connect with one another. Right. We're also
seeing the emergence of reading retreats book weekends. There's a
(06:08):
group called page Break in New York, an organization that's
organizing these reading retreats at upscale boats boutique New York hotels,
promising to leave readers well read and well fed. See
I did it again. Did you see that? Okay? What
makes page Break unique? Now this is different. You remember
(06:32):
on the audio book walking clubs, people may be listening
to different books at the same time. But in these groups,
people are sharing the same book. They're all reading the
same thing. And what I thought was particularly unique is
that a lot of it is in group sessions where
they actually take turns reading the book out loud. According
(06:54):
to founder Mikey Friedman, quote, a magical thing happens when
we all actively listen to one another. It really enhances
the way you experience a book. Friedman has also been
inspired by the mental health benefits of reading together. So
what do you think Team Laura, assuming you were not
(07:16):
already blissfully happily married, is this something you can see
yourself doing?
Speaker 5 (07:22):
While it's very difficult to envision that world of not
being blissfully married, it's pretty easy to see the appeal
of this. If I could connect with other avid readers,
I think that would be a good thing to do.
I've often wondered what do people do when you are
out of school, out of college? How do you meet
(07:45):
other people your own age? I mean, at some point
the bar sounds like the worst possible idea, and you
don't want to meet somebody at a bar like that.
I think this is brilliant.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Yes, yeah, Jesse, how about you? I bet you've seen
Roman's Bloom at Star Trek gatherings. Why not bookstore?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
So here's my problem with this, especially what they're reading
a loud part, which is like I reaal a lot
of fantasy novels where I discover, after talking to people
who've listened to the audiobook that I'm pronouncing every name
and place wrong. I would look real, real stupid, and
I don't want to do that, even though I have
no problem reading in public. But no, I love this.
This is just like a way of finding similar interests
(08:23):
and just like making it slightly more directive than it
would be otherwise. But if someone did give me their
number in a James Harrison book, I would instantly throw
it away.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
So that's useful. You've learned something right.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You can rule people out that way so quickly. Yes,
that makes perfect sense. Well as far as reading aloud,
there is a group that every year reads Moby Dick aloud.
It takes twenty four hours and they all take turns.
They stay up all night to do it. There's a
whole culture built around it, and I have to admit
I think that's the only way I could finish. That's
(08:57):
one book I've never finished. That is hard.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
More commitment right there.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
The nice thing about that is that you could listen
during the chapters that pertained to the plot and then
go get a sandwich during the other ones about whaling historian.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Books within books a fish sandwich.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I assume no thoughts.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I mean, I think it's a great idea if you
don't know where to meet people, and books are some
of your favorite things. And I know it's taking book
clubs to the next level. And some of the book
clips I have been at have gone extremely deep to
the point where we're taking We're talking about a fantasy story,
but everybody's relating it to the deepest.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Parts of your life.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
So you can actually get to know people pretty well
if you're talking books. And so I love books. I
didn't know how much my husband liked books when we married.
I knew he read books like that was a requirement,
but we ended up reading so many of the same
books together our first few years of marriage, loving it,
talking about it, reading them out loud, discussing.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
We still discuss books.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Today and he's one of my major critique partners as well.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
He's also a fabulous writer.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
So I think it's great. I mean, if readers can
hook up with each other, that some of that are
going to be writers and they're going to need a
partner who loves books.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah, that's fun. Okay. News story number two, which is
not entirely dissimilar, company called Hidden Door has launched a
literary role playing platform. Here's the idea. It's a technology studio,
Hidden Door, and they've opened this bookish role playing platform
that promises fans of popular books Pride and Prejudice, the
(10:39):
Wizard of Oz, what have you and give them an
immersive entertainment experience. These kind of choose your own adventure
style storytelling formats so you get to actually enter the world,
I mean in your imagination. You enter the world of
your favorite books, as inspired of course by tabletop role
(11:02):
playing games, and uses a mix of machine there Shout
out for UH uses a mix of machine learning technology
and collaborating with the publishers to give fans and this
is a quote to allow them to explore, expand and
remix fictional canons. Jesse, I know whose world you don't
(11:26):
want to enter, but what you would play around in
OZ or something?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Listen for all of us who are of a certain
age and were raised on both The Wizard of Oz
and then it's Seql returned to Oz. The answer the
question is absolutely not. It's terrifying. Most fantasy and sci
fi realms, unless you're in the main story, are horrible
places to live and I do not want to go there.
I mean, unless unless there was one that just let
(11:54):
me hang out in the shire Soromon taking it over. Yes, great, Yeah,
the rivende riven Dell. I think I get tired of
Rivendell for about six hours. I feel like it's gonna
beautiful and then I'm gonna be bored very quickly. But yeah,
like I don't I see the appeal of this. I
think there's interesting places this could go. But if you
really like dig deep into any of these places, you're like, actually,
(12:19):
you know, it's like a like pseudo fascist state that
I don't want to live in. Or you know there's
no technology, or the food is terrible, or you know,
we're all gonna die.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
So nobody's gonna pick nineteen eighty four for their numbers
of experience.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Jesse, listen, I mean, let's listen. We could break this down.
But if we're talking Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Oz, like,
if you're just living in those in those worlds at
the time the main story is going on, and you
don't have any magical protective powers, you are in Trouble
or Hunger.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Games for example, Yeah, it's not a great Yeah, who
wants to live in the Hunger Games?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
The people in the Hunger Games don't want to live
in the.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Hunger Although I would love to be that handy with
a bow and arrow, so I'm in. I'm in because
I would like to try those skills out.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Laura, what about you, something involving dragons or vampires or
what literary environment would you choose If it.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Was something like that, I'm going to go with Alice
in Wonderland. That would be fun with the singing terrifying.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
This is a book where fictional characters are constantly making
threats of either decapitation or cannibalism.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
But sure, whatever, you just have to avoid the Red Queen.
That's true. Otherwise, something where I get to pet a
lot of animals, where animals aren't scared. I guess that
would be more like Narnia.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Narnia, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, no or well books allowed.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Visit, revisit. Jesse's response, please animal Farm, yikes.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Love the book, do not want to live there?
Speaker 4 (13:57):
All right? One last news story, Steve King, you've heard
of him. I bet and Benjamin Percy are writing a
novel as a newspaper. So Benjamin Percy is a successful
author of many genres and forms, and he's going to
serialize his next novel in the form of a newspaper.
(14:17):
It's going to be called The End Times. It'll be
serialized over the course of a year, both in print
and digital forms, and will include contributions from Stephen King
for a reason, because this book is basically set in
the same universe as The Stand, another place you probably.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Wouldn't choose to go, Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
They say part of the motivation is to get people
off their screens, although I notice they're doing a digital
edition as well as print, and to celebrate the importance
of journalism. They've said that for every subscription over five hundred,
they will donate a dollar to the ACLU. So, Jesse,
I know you've read The Stand or Suspect as much.
(15:00):
Are you going to subscribe to this newspaper thing.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I'd be curious about it, Like it's sort of like
a retro return to like how the books like Moby
dickwa released where they were you know, they were serialized,
So this would be this would be an interesting experiment
to see for sure. I'll check it out.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Yeah, Laura, how about you.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Don't want to live there?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Well?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I love the experimentation with form, but like you mentioned,
that was really the way our first what we know
is an American epic novel was given to us as readers,
and so I love that return to it, and unlike
some of my favorite Stephen King books, I hope it
has the satisfying ending.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Oh, we're going to get burned by all the top
best sellers when this podcast is coming for you.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Stephen y'all started it with the James Patterson and now
I'm I'm just jumped on this, babe.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
We blame Jesse. But but James, if you're listening, you're
invited to come.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But on the podcast again, we make fun of James
because he doesn't actually write his books. That's the whole point.
So if you're a real author, you're welcome to come
on this podcast.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Boom, were you trying to say something there?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Well, I think it's pretty genius because right now there
is a trend in the reading industry where you have
substack and they're in stuff places like that where they
are starting to release in this serial type way, and
they're jumping on a trend with their huge audience already.
And I have lived twenty years around the world, and
I would say a lot of countries operate like this.
(16:33):
They're releasing chapter by chapter, they're hooking people, and then
they're starting to pay for those chapters afterwards. So I
think it's pretty genius. I don't know if I'll be
checking it out because that's not exactly the genre that
I read, but I will.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Pay attention to it. Yeah, and see how it goes.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I want to see the buzz that it gets and
if it catches on, and if he's catching traction, because
that's really interesting to me.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Yeah, it's fun to see people experiment. Laura thoughts.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
I think it takes somebody of his caliber to you
kind of lead the way as you're talking about this
new and creative form of delivering reading material to their audiences.
And I think I like it. I like that he's
leading the charge and he's taking that popularity and creating
something fabulous for everybody with it. I think it's a
(17:19):
good idea.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah, good news stories today. All right, let's move on
to the interviews and talk to Laurie l Dove and
Nova mcbe Laurie and Nova, thank you for being on
(17:42):
the pod. Of course you've been on the podcast before,
but thank you for being here at writer Con. We
were really excited to have you here. Now you both
know because you've answered it before. What my first question
always is if you could give writers one piece of advice. So,
since you've both been on before, I guess I should
say and then if you were going to give them
a second piece of advice, what would it be, Laurie.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I would just tell you to not quit under
any circumstances. I would tell you to keep going.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
And I mean last night at my keynote, I gave
a lot of advice on craft, learning, craft and industry,
and I just want to tag onto that with new
advice is you know, when you love your project, it's
hard to stop writing it, and so don't try to
write somebody else's project. Don't try to write the trend.
Write what you love and the books you want to
see come into the world.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah, great advice. Nova. Last night we heard you give
her Last afternoon, we heard you give a terrific keynote address,
and Laurie, no pressure. But you're on this afternoon. This
is probably not appropriate when we're actually at writer Con.
But how has your writer Con experience been so far? Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
It's been fabulous. You guys have just an amazing job
of setting up everything. I've been so impressed, right, yes,
Oh my gosh, from the WOVA app to the breakout sessions,
to the organization, to the just the general joy that
you guys have set and the whole place, the people
(19:19):
who are friendly, asking questions, devouring information. I have heard
nothing but good things. It has been a phenomenal success,
so thank you for letting us be part yest.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I completely agree with this. I feel like I have
entered a new family and a new set of friends,
and book people are the best people. So I'm so
excited to.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Be here with you and the diversity of the classes.
You have not just done books, but you've covered writing
in all different ways, and it is you have experts
of all kinds here and I've really enjoyed seeing the
A to Z type of things that you have offered.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yes, so so much value.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Thank you now, Laurie. I know you've been writing for
a while. You've got I think eight nonfiction books, yes,
but now you've published your first novel, Mask of the
Dear Woman, and it has become a huge bestseller. That
must be a good feeling, right.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It is such a good feeling because I took nov
As advice before we even met, and I wrote the
book that I wanted to write, and I wasn't sure
what kind of book it was or where it would
end up. And it is such a good feeling to
know that people are reading it and it's resonating with
them in some way.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Oh, that's the best feeling. Mask of the Deer Woman
is such a great title, but like, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Well? Yes, so in the book there is literally a
mask of a deer woman, and there is also a
myth of the deer woman that exists in many cultures
across many indigenous communities. And since the book came out,
I've actually met several people who have seen dear women.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yes, so that's been very exciting for me.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Very cool.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
But Nova, you write in the Ya field and you're
up to your third book now in this series? Right, calculated?
Was there a third one? How's your experience been? How's
that going?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
My experience has also been awesome. I've written lots of
novels before this, and this series was such a surprise series.
It came out of me and I was very surprised
by the series. It wasn't what I usually read and
write and it, as you guys know from the keynote
last night, a lot of people were like, this is
(21:43):
this is a global story that needs to be told,
and so a lot of the early feedback was like,
this is a character people are going to want to follow.
This is a series, this is a franchise. You can't
stop writing. So technically, the fourth book is done and
I'm complaining to come out, and there are so many
spin offs that I could do that people are encouraging,
(22:05):
and yet I am, you know, behind the scenes, finishing
a lot of different novels, and so there's a lot
to come. I've loved the Young Adults world because you
get to explore all of these these really deep topics
and yeah first you know, yeah, and explore identity and
purpose in books, which I love.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Now. As the title suggests of the first book, Calculated,
this series involves math and numbers and other stuff I
find mostly baffling. How do you get non mathletes interested
in these?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
So I didn't think about that when I wrote A
math Prodigy, And I've talked about this on numerous podcasts
where I'm like, after I decided she was a math
prodigy and it was already more or less written, I'm like,
why have I done this? Because it's so hard writing
a genius? And thankfully I did a lot of research
and took my time, and people now think I'm a
gen Yes, we're just.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Like, yeah, no.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I've literally been in interviews where they're like, so, you
are a prodigy, right, I'm like, I wish that like
gave me five hundred headaches, lots of research, you know,
lots of frustration, but you do not need math for
this book at all. The way her math gift is
it is a supernatural way of seeing the world through
this math and what she can calculate all around her,
(23:26):
even from the tiniest thing to if someone is about
to touch her to the massive economic things going on
in the world. She can predict all of these things.
And the fun thing about this gift that I did
not know what happened was that people are like, now
I pretend I'm Joe Rivers. I walk around. I did
a hike the other day, and I was like, I
(23:48):
was pretending to be her with every step of the way.
And I have people mimicking it. And I have librarians
and teacher saying you are revolutionizing math and you're making
it cool, but you do not need math.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It is.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
And then the feedback of people saying I will never
see the world the same again, and that is so
powerful to have. You know, what I thought of was
as a whim use a math gift turned into something
so much more beautiful, deep and amazing.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
So it's not easy.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I don't know if I can attempt writing prodigies again.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Yeah, and now you've got a movie that's in like
pre production, right, talk about that a minute.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yep, it's in pre production. I have amazing producers who
have all set their minds and they looked at the
whole series and loved it, and they said this is
this is a franchise. And when I heard that first word,
I was like, WHOA, Okay, I accept I accept that.
But they have put incredible work into building the world
(24:53):
and the way the math gift is portrayed, just getting
all of those characters set up for the franchise. They've
really taken their time. It's in pre production. The scripts
are written, they're in conversation. There should be announcements soon.
It's been incredible to see people take what's inside your
head that became up on paper and now take it
in a whole other format. It's been an incredible honor.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
That's fantastic. All Right. I'm going to ask you both
about things you've learned along the way during your writing journey,
and just to balance it out. You can talk about
things you've learned the good way, and you can talk
about mistakes. Let's not say mistakes, let's say learning experiences
that you've had along the way. Laurie, tell me something
(25:39):
you've learned during your many years of writing.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Well, one thing that has really stood out for me.
I was a career journalist for about thirty years and
before I made this transition to fiction, and one of
the things that has really stood out for me is
how different fiction writing has been from the rest of
my career. And while that was in some ways very
solitary and that was fine with me, fiction I am
(26:03):
finding that I need events like this to carry me
through to the next event when we can all get
together at writers That feeling of community, of shared struggle
and shared success that has been the most sustaining thing
for me in making this transition.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Beautiful. What about you, Nova, What have you learned since
you started writing? Laurie and I were talking about.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
This before we got up here, and you have learned
so much by our point, where like we have, there's
so many lessons it's almost like you can't even remember
how much you've learned. There's so much to this industry
that you are. You're almost always learning, and you're kind
of like in a state of learning because things change.
But I agree with Louri starting out, you want the
(26:50):
right partners, you want the right supporters, you want the
right critique partners. You want the right community because it
can sustain you when those hard times come and when
those mistakes do come, and you have people in your
ear saying that mistake's not going to kill your career.
I know that social media post, I know that marketing
thing was a huge flop, but you know those people
(27:13):
that are sustaining I again, I've learned to really take
on like what I believe in, Like I want to
write what I believe in. I want to do my
research before signing deals with people and working on deadlines,
not having them too close. And I've learned a lot
(27:34):
of lessons where you know, my first publisher said, hey,
how about we have the deadline for your second book
the day after your first book launches. Me and my ignorance,
I was like, sure, worst idea on the planet. And
I've learned, no way do you have a deadline right
(27:54):
next to your book release, because there's so much to
do when your book is about to release that you
don't have a deadline anywhere near that, And so I've learned.
You learn as you go and you make notes.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You know. That's funny because I did the exact same
thing and they tried to stop me. They were like,
are you sure that you want to because Mask of
the Dear Woman is now a series, And they said,
are you sure you want to send us the second
book right when you're there is releasing it. I was
like absolutely, Like I can do deadlines, and I was
(28:27):
so wrong.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
There's so much marketing that goes into it that I
had to be like, is my deadline more important or
is my marketing for this book? And I had to
sacrifice certain parts. I was so stressed and it was
my first book deal that I focused, I need to
turn in the deadline because I need I need them
to know I'm I'm I can reach deadlines. And so
(28:52):
that was a very interesting lesson. But we have loads
of those lessons.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
After the huge success of Mask of the Deer Woman.
I'm betting your publisher is asking, so what's next and
how soon can we bring it out? So what is next?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, I'm very excited that it is now a series,
and so we'll have more issues of Mask of the
Deer Woman. The second book in the series releases Fall
of twenty twenty six, and I'm also working on a
standalone and additional books in the series, and scripting a
streaming platform series that could go along with that as well.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Terrific Ova. I think you just mentioned of fourth book
in the series. What's coming next from you?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, the fourth book. It does not have a release
date yet, to a very great disappointment of my readers,
who I get dms all the time, because we are
waiting for movie News to have a very significant time
to release that book. But I have written two other
books that are now on submission, and I am polishing
up a fantasy series that I wrote as well.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Fantastic kay, both of you. Laurie Nova, thank you so
much for being on the podcast, and especially thank you
for being a huge part of writer Con twenty twenty five.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Thank you for inviting us.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Just a few parting words. I'm sorry to tell you,
but if you're listening to this at home, you have
missed writer Con twenty twenty five. But guess what, there
will be another one in twenty twenty six during Labor
Day weekend, which next year will be September fourth through seventh,
So start making your plans now. Let me also remind
(30:38):
you that writer Con has a free newsletter that goes
out every month full of interesting articles about writing and
news about what's happening in the world of publishing, an
agents and whatnot. Go to substack search for writer Con,
subscribe to the newsletter. Like I said, it's completely free.
And if after the podcast and the newslet you still
(31:01):
want more and you know who doesn't, go to Facebook
and join the writer con Face group. Facebook group and
obviously free, and somebody's posting something interesting there virtually every day,
So come join the fun. All right, until next time,
Remember keep writing. You cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
(31:26):
All right, See you next time.
This week on the writer Con podcast, I would just.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Tell you to not quit under any circumstances. I would
tell you to keep.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
You know, when you love your project, it's hard to
solve writing it, and so don't try to write somebody
else's project. Don't try to write the trend. Write what
you love and the books you want to see come
into the world.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award
winning author of the want Ln Files book series.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. We are recording
live from writer Con twenty twenty five. We are having
a great time. We have record attendants this year, filling
the halls of the scurb in Hilton. We have a
(01:00):
sixty speakers and over one hundred different breakout sessions. We
got people from twenty two different states and even some
foreign countries like New Zealand, exhibitors, sponsors. We've had breakout
sessions and roundtables and we're not quite done yet. This
afternoon at three were playing writer con Jeopardy always the highlight,
(01:22):
or at least for me. No, the highlight was last
night doing karaoke. I think, yes, yes, Lara, I knew
you had a beautiful singing voice. But are you impressed
as impressed as I am about how many talented seekers,
singers we have within this supposedly introverted group of writers.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
I get blown away every year, and it's always the
quiet ones. They come out and sing and you just
get blown away. I love it. We have such a
talented group of people with.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Us and Jesse. As you know, we are back, actually
after an absence, back at the Scurvi in Hilton. How
are you enjoying the new venue? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I love the new venue except for two very important facts. One,
the hot tub is gone, just gone. And secondly, and
most importantly, in my room was not one, not two,
but three James Patterson novels. Three How dare they? And
(02:29):
in the spirit of this conference, and you know what
AI tools we should and should I use? I made
a little video about what I feel about having three
James Patterson novels in my room, So I hope you enjoy.
It's short. There we go.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Is there a hobbit inside?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
The trash can, the book pops up. Yeah, her arm
goes server of course, into the trash can.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Beautiful.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
It's just it's just demonstrating that you just can't get
rid of them. They think it's like your's like your
Monkey's Podjess.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's true. Yeah, just James Parrison finds me everywhere I go. James,
I know you're watching. I know your people are watching.
I'm coming for you.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
For those of you who don't listen to the podcast,
this is a long standing feud, but I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
To go in one directional feud that I'm trying. I'm
just trying to guess people to respond because I would
help our numbers.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So right, Well, today we are doing a joint interview
with both of our keynote speakers at Ryder Con. And
that's the author of the best selling novel Mask of
the Dear Woman. That's Laurie L. Dove and last night's
keynote Nova McBee, the author of the young adult Calculated series.
(03:53):
They are both waiting and I are all ready to
be interviewed and I can't wait to do that. But
first the.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
News I worked it in this year. Here we go.
Hold on got to hit play again.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
News story number one. Now I should explain that since
this is writer con I you know, for once, no Amazon,
no AI, We're going to focus on fun things in
the writing world. Okay, so news story number.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
One, Hold on, did we want to bring our guests
on for the new stories?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yeah, absolutely, Laurie, our guests come on up here. So
news story number one. I'm pretty proud of this. Wait
for this. People are replacing speed dating with read dating.
(04:58):
All right. Last time you remember, we reported on people
forming audiobook writing clubs. Now we're seeing this whole new
form of social interaction for diehard introverted readers, the read dating,
which makes perfect sense to me because, after all, as
everybody in this room knows, reading is sexy, right, That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
That's a brilliant idea.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
And who wants to date somebody who doesn't read? I mean,
for peoples sake. So Jess Evans, the founder of Bova,
thought gen Z was getting kind of bored with dating apps,
so she curated something for book levers. The idea is
to gather people in someplace, usually a bookstore, and tell
them to bring a copy of their favorite book, hand
(05:45):
it out, perhaps with your phone number scrawled in the
front of the book. Give it to someone and you know,
see if you hit it off. So you've met someone,
you've mingled, and perhaps you like the same kind of books,
so you can connect with one another. Right. We're also
seeing the emergence of reading retreats book weekends. There's a
(06:08):
group called page Break in New York, an organization that's
organizing these reading retreats at upscale boats boutique New York hotels,
promising to leave readers well read and well fed. See
I did it again. Did you see that? Okay? What
makes page Break unique? Now this is different. You remember
(06:32):
on the audio book walking clubs, people may be listening
to different books at the same time. But in these groups,
people are sharing the same book. They're all reading the
same thing. And what I thought was particularly unique is
that a lot of it is in group sessions where
they actually take turns reading the book out loud. According
(06:54):
to founder Mikey Friedman, quote, a magical thing happens when
we all actively listen to one another. It really enhances
the way you experience a book. Friedman has also been
inspired by the mental health benefits of reading together. So
what do you think Team Laura, assuming you were not
(07:16):
already blissfully happily married, is this something you can see
yourself doing?
Speaker 5 (07:22):
While it's very difficult to envision that world of not
being blissfully married, it's pretty easy to see the appeal
of this. If I could connect with other avid readers,
I think that would be a good thing to do.
I've often wondered what do people do when you are
out of school, out of college? How do you meet
(07:45):
other people your own age? I mean, at some point
the bar sounds like the worst possible idea, and you
don't want to meet somebody at a bar like that.
I think this is brilliant.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Yes, yeah, Jesse, how about you? I bet you've seen
Roman's Bloom at Star Trek gatherings. Why not bookstore?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
So here's my problem with this, especially what they're reading
a loud part, which is like I reaal a lot
of fantasy novels where I discover, after talking to people
who've listened to the audiobook that I'm pronouncing every name
and place wrong. I would look real, real stupid, and
I don't want to do that, even though I have
no problem reading in public. But no, I love this.
This is just like a way of finding similar interests
(08:23):
and just like making it slightly more directive than it
would be otherwise. But if someone did give me their
number in a James Harrison book, I would instantly throw
it away.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
So that's useful. You've learned something right.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You can rule people out that way so quickly. Yes,
that makes perfect sense. Well as far as reading aloud,
there is a group that every year reads Moby Dick aloud.
It takes twenty four hours and they all take turns.
They stay up all night to do it. There's a
whole culture built around it, and I have to admit
I think that's the only way I could finish. That's
(08:57):
one book I've never finished. That is hard.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
More commitment right there.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
The nice thing about that is that you could listen
during the chapters that pertained to the plot and then
go get a sandwich during the other ones about whaling historian.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Books within books a fish sandwich.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I assume no thoughts.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I mean, I think it's a great idea if you
don't know where to meet people, and books are some
of your favorite things. And I know it's taking book
clubs to the next level. And some of the book
clips I have been at have gone extremely deep to
the point where we're taking We're talking about a fantasy story,
but everybody's relating it to the deepest.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Parts of your life.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
So you can actually get to know people pretty well
if you're talking books. And so I love books. I
didn't know how much my husband liked books when we married.
I knew he read books like that was a requirement,
but we ended up reading so many of the same
books together our first few years of marriage, loving it,
talking about it, reading them out loud, discussing.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
We still discuss books.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Today and he's one of my major critique partners as well.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
He's also a fabulous writer.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
So I think it's great. I mean, if readers can
hook up with each other, that some of that are
going to be writers and they're going to need a
partner who loves books.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah, that's fun. Okay. News story number two, which is
not entirely dissimilar, company called Hidden Door has launched a
literary role playing platform. Here's the idea. It's a technology studio,
Hidden Door, and they've opened this bookish role playing platform
that promises fans of popular books Pride and Prejudice, the
(10:39):
Wizard of Oz, what have you and give them an
immersive entertainment experience. These kind of choose your own adventure
style storytelling formats so you get to actually enter the world,
I mean in your imagination. You enter the world of
your favorite books, as inspired of course by tabletop role
(11:02):
playing games, and uses a mix of machine there Shout
out for UH uses a mix of machine learning technology
and collaborating with the publishers to give fans and this
is a quote to allow them to explore, expand and
remix fictional canons. Jesse, I know whose world you don't
(11:26):
want to enter, but what you would play around in
OZ or something?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Listen for all of us who are of a certain
age and were raised on both The Wizard of Oz
and then it's Seql returned to Oz. The answer the
question is absolutely not. It's terrifying. Most fantasy and sci
fi realms, unless you're in the main story, are horrible
places to live and I do not want to go there.
I mean, unless unless there was one that just let
(11:54):
me hang out in the shire Soromon taking it over. Yes, great, Yeah,
the rivende riven Dell. I think I get tired of
Rivendell for about six hours. I feel like it's gonna
beautiful and then I'm gonna be bored very quickly. But yeah,
like I don't I see the appeal of this. I
think there's interesting places this could go. But if you
really like dig deep into any of these places, you're like, actually,
(12:19):
you know, it's like a like pseudo fascist state that
I don't want to live in. Or you know there's
no technology, or the food is terrible, or you know,
we're all gonna die.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
So nobody's gonna pick nineteen eighty four for their numbers
of experience.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Jesse, listen, I mean, let's listen. We could break this down.
But if we're talking Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Oz, like,
if you're just living in those in those worlds at
the time the main story is going on, and you
don't have any magical protective powers, you are in Trouble
or Hunger.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Games for example, Yeah, it's not a great Yeah, who
wants to live in the Hunger Games?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
The people in the Hunger Games don't want to live
in the.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Hunger Although I would love to be that handy with
a bow and arrow, so I'm in. I'm in because
I would like to try those skills out.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Laura, what about you, something involving dragons or vampires or
what literary environment would you choose If it.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Was something like that, I'm going to go with Alice
in Wonderland. That would be fun with the singing terrifying.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
This is a book where fictional characters are constantly making
threats of either decapitation or cannibalism.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
But sure, whatever, you just have to avoid the Red Queen.
That's true. Otherwise, something where I get to pet a
lot of animals, where animals aren't scared. I guess that
would be more like Narnia.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Narnia, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, no or well books allowed.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Visit, revisit. Jesse's response, please animal Farm, yikes.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Love the book, do not want to live there?
Speaker 4 (13:57):
All right? One last news story, Steve King, you've heard
of him. I bet and Benjamin Percy are writing a
novel as a newspaper. So Benjamin Percy is a successful
author of many genres and forms, and he's going to
serialize his next novel in the form of a newspaper.
(14:17):
It's going to be called The End Times. It'll be
serialized over the course of a year, both in print
and digital forms, and will include contributions from Stephen King
for a reason, because this book is basically set in
the same universe as The Stand, another place you probably.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Wouldn't choose to go, Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
They say part of the motivation is to get people
off their screens, although I notice they're doing a digital
edition as well as print, and to celebrate the importance
of journalism. They've said that for every subscription over five hundred,
they will donate a dollar to the ACLU. So, Jesse,
I know you've read The Stand or Suspect as much.
(15:00):
Are you going to subscribe to this newspaper thing.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I'd be curious about it, Like it's sort of like
a retro return to like how the books like Moby
dickwa released where they were you know, they were serialized,
So this would be this would be an interesting experiment
to see for sure. I'll check it out.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Yeah, Laura, how about you.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Don't want to live there?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Well?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I love the experimentation with form, but like you mentioned,
that was really the way our first what we know
is an American epic novel was given to us as readers,
and so I love that return to it, and unlike
some of my favorite Stephen King books, I hope it
has the satisfying ending.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Oh, we're going to get burned by all the top
best sellers when this podcast is coming for you.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Stephen y'all started it with the James Patterson and now
I'm I'm just jumped on this, babe.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
We blame Jesse. But but James, if you're listening, you're
invited to come.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But on the podcast again, we make fun of James
because he doesn't actually write his books. That's the whole point.
So if you're a real author, you're welcome to come
on this podcast.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Boom, were you trying to say something there?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Well, I think it's pretty genius because right now there
is a trend in the reading industry where you have
substack and they're in stuff places like that where they
are starting to release in this serial type way, and
they're jumping on a trend with their huge audience already.
And I have lived twenty years around the world, and
I would say a lot of countries operate like this.
(16:33):
They're releasing chapter by chapter, they're hooking people, and then
they're starting to pay for those chapters afterwards. So I
think it's pretty genius. I don't know if I'll be
checking it out because that's not exactly the genre that
I read, but I will.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Pay attention to it. Yeah, and see how it goes.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I want to see the buzz that it gets and
if it catches on, and if he's catching traction, because
that's really interesting to me.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Yeah, it's fun to see people experiment. Laura thoughts.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
I think it takes somebody of his caliber to you
kind of lead the way as you're talking about this
new and creative form of delivering reading material to their audiences.
And I think I like it. I like that he's
leading the charge and he's taking that popularity and creating
something fabulous for everybody with it. I think it's a
(17:19):
good idea.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah, good news stories today. All right, let's move on
to the interviews and talk to Laurie l Dove and
Nova mcbe Laurie and Nova, thank you for being on
(17:42):
the pod. Of course you've been on the podcast before,
but thank you for being here at writer Con. We
were really excited to have you here. Now you both
know because you've answered it before. What my first question
always is if you could give writers one piece of advice. So,
since you've both been on before, I guess I should
say and then if you were going to give them
a second piece of advice, what would it be, Laurie.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I would just tell you to not quit under
any circumstances. I would tell you to keep going.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
And I mean last night at my keynote, I gave
a lot of advice on craft, learning, craft and industry,
and I just want to tag onto that with new
advice is you know, when you love your project, it's
hard to stop writing it, and so don't try to
write somebody else's project. Don't try to write the trend.
Write what you love and the books you want to
see come into the world.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah, great advice. Nova. Last night we heard you give
her Last afternoon, we heard you give a terrific keynote address,
and Laurie, no pressure. But you're on this afternoon. This
is probably not appropriate when we're actually at writer Con.
But how has your writer Con experience been so far? Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
It's been fabulous. You guys have just an amazing job
of setting up everything. I've been so impressed, right, yes,
Oh my gosh, from the WOVA app to the breakout sessions,
to the organization, to the just the general joy that
you guys have set and the whole place, the people
(19:19):
who are friendly, asking questions, devouring information. I have heard
nothing but good things. It has been a phenomenal success,
so thank you for letting us be part yest.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I completely agree with this. I feel like I have
entered a new family and a new set of friends,
and book people are the best people. So I'm so
excited to.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Be here with you and the diversity of the classes.
You have not just done books, but you've covered writing
in all different ways, and it is you have experts
of all kinds here and I've really enjoyed seeing the
A to Z type of things that you have offered.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yes, so so much value.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Thank you now, Laurie. I know you've been writing for
a while. You've got I think eight nonfiction books, yes,
but now you've published your first novel, Mask of the
Dear Woman, and it has become a huge bestseller. That
must be a good feeling, right.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It is such a good feeling because I took nov
As advice before we even met, and I wrote the
book that I wanted to write, and I wasn't sure
what kind of book it was or where it would
end up. And it is such a good feeling to
know that people are reading it and it's resonating with
them in some way.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Oh, that's the best feeling. Mask of the Deer Woman
is such a great title, but like, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Well? Yes, so in the book there is literally a
mask of a deer woman, and there is also a
myth of the deer woman that exists in many cultures
across many indigenous communities. And since the book came out,
I've actually met several people who have seen dear women.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yes, so that's been very exciting for me.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Very cool.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
But Nova, you write in the Ya field and you're
up to your third book now in this series? Right, calculated?
Was there a third one? How's your experience been? How's
that going?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
My experience has also been awesome. I've written lots of
novels before this, and this series was such a surprise series.
It came out of me and I was very surprised
by the series. It wasn't what I usually read and
write and it, as you guys know from the keynote
last night, a lot of people were like, this is
(21:43):
this is a global story that needs to be told,
and so a lot of the early feedback was like,
this is a character people are going to want to follow.
This is a series, this is a franchise. You can't
stop writing. So technically, the fourth book is done and
I'm complaining to come out, and there are so many
spin offs that I could do that people are encouraging,
(22:05):
and yet I am, you know, behind the scenes, finishing
a lot of different novels, and so there's a lot
to come. I've loved the Young Adults world because you
get to explore all of these these really deep topics
and yeah first you know, yeah, and explore identity and
purpose in books, which I love.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Now. As the title suggests of the first book, Calculated,
this series involves math and numbers and other stuff I
find mostly baffling. How do you get non mathletes interested
in these?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
So I didn't think about that when I wrote A
math Prodigy, And I've talked about this on numerous podcasts
where I'm like, after I decided she was a math
prodigy and it was already more or less written, I'm like,
why have I done this? Because it's so hard writing
a genius? And thankfully I did a lot of research
and took my time, and people now think I'm a
gen Yes, we're just.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Like, yeah, no.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I've literally been in interviews where they're like, so, you
are a prodigy, right, I'm like, I wish that like
gave me five hundred headaches, lots of research, you know,
lots of frustration, but you do not need math for
this book at all. The way her math gift is
it is a supernatural way of seeing the world through
this math and what she can calculate all around her,
(23:26):
even from the tiniest thing to if someone is about
to touch her to the massive economic things going on
in the world. She can predict all of these things.
And the fun thing about this gift that I did
not know what happened was that people are like, now
I pretend I'm Joe Rivers. I walk around. I did
a hike the other day, and I was like, I
(23:48):
was pretending to be her with every step of the way.
And I have people mimicking it. And I have librarians
and teacher saying you are revolutionizing math and you're making
it cool, but you do not need math.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It is.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
And then the feedback of people saying I will never
see the world the same again, and that is so
powerful to have. You know, what I thought of was
as a whim use a math gift turned into something
so much more beautiful, deep and amazing.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
So it's not easy.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I don't know if I can attempt writing prodigies again.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Yeah, and now you've got a movie that's in like
pre production, right, talk about that a minute.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yep, it's in pre production. I have amazing producers who
have all set their minds and they looked at the
whole series and loved it, and they said this is
this is a franchise. And when I heard that first word,
I was like, WHOA, Okay, I accept I accept that.
But they have put incredible work into building the world
(24:53):
and the way the math gift is portrayed, just getting
all of those characters set up for the franchise. They've
really taken their time. It's in pre production. The scripts
are written, they're in conversation. There should be announcements soon.
It's been incredible to see people take what's inside your
head that became up on paper and now take it
in a whole other format. It's been an incredible honor.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
That's fantastic. All Right. I'm going to ask you both
about things you've learned along the way during your writing journey,
and just to balance it out. You can talk about
things you've learned the good way, and you can talk
about mistakes. Let's not say mistakes, let's say learning experiences
that you've had along the way. Laurie, tell me something
(25:39):
you've learned during your many years of writing.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Well, one thing that has really stood out for me.
I was a career journalist for about thirty years and
before I made this transition to fiction, and one of
the things that has really stood out for me is
how different fiction writing has been from the rest of
my career. And while that was in some ways very
solitary and that was fine with me, fiction I am
(26:03):
finding that I need events like this to carry me
through to the next event when we can all get
together at writers That feeling of community, of shared struggle
and shared success that has been the most sustaining thing
for me in making this transition.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Beautiful. What about you, Nova, What have you learned since
you started writing? Laurie and I were talking about.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
This before we got up here, and you have learned
so much by our point, where like we have, there's
so many lessons it's almost like you can't even remember
how much you've learned. There's so much to this industry
that you are. You're almost always learning, and you're kind
of like in a state of learning because things change.
But I agree with Louri starting out, you want the
(26:50):
right partners, you want the right supporters, you want the
right critique partners. You want the right community because it
can sustain you when those hard times come and when
those mistakes do come, and you have people in your
ear saying that mistake's not going to kill your career.
I know that social media post, I know that marketing
thing was a huge flop, but you know those people
(27:13):
that are sustaining I again, I've learned to really take
on like what I believe in, Like I want to
write what I believe in. I want to do my
research before signing deals with people and working on deadlines,
not having them too close. And I've learned a lot
(27:34):
of lessons where you know, my first publisher said, hey,
how about we have the deadline for your second book
the day after your first book launches. Me and my ignorance,
I was like, sure, worst idea on the planet. And
I've learned, no way do you have a deadline right
(27:54):
next to your book release, because there's so much to
do when your book is about to release that you
don't have a deadline anywhere near that, And so I've learned.
You learn as you go and you make notes.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You know. That's funny because I did the exact same
thing and they tried to stop me. They were like,
are you sure that you want to because Mask of
the Dear Woman is now a series, And they said,
are you sure you want to send us the second
book right when you're there is releasing it. I was
like absolutely, Like I can do deadlines, and I was
(28:27):
so wrong.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
There's so much marketing that goes into it that I
had to be like, is my deadline more important or
is my marketing for this book? And I had to
sacrifice certain parts. I was so stressed and it was
my first book deal that I focused, I need to
turn in the deadline because I need I need them
to know I'm I'm I can reach deadlines. And so
(28:52):
that was a very interesting lesson. But we have loads
of those lessons.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
After the huge success of Mask of the Deer Woman.
I'm betting your publisher is asking, so what's next and
how soon can we bring it out? So what is next?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, I'm very excited that it is now a series,
and so we'll have more issues of Mask of the
Deer Woman. The second book in the series releases Fall
of twenty twenty six, and I'm also working on a
standalone and additional books in the series, and scripting a
streaming platform series that could go along with that as well.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Terrific Ova. I think you just mentioned of fourth book
in the series. What's coming next from you?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, the fourth book. It does not have a release
date yet, to a very great disappointment of my readers,
who I get dms all the time, because we are
waiting for movie News to have a very significant time
to release that book. But I have written two other
books that are now on submission, and I am polishing
up a fantasy series that I wrote as well.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Fantastic kay, both of you. Laurie Nova, thank you so
much for being on the podcast, and especially thank you
for being a huge part of writer Con twenty twenty five.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Thank you for inviting us.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Just a few parting words. I'm sorry to tell you,
but if you're listening to this at home, you have
missed writer Con twenty twenty five. But guess what, there
will be another one in twenty twenty six during Labor
Day weekend, which next year will be September fourth through seventh,
So start making your plans now. Let me also remind
(30:38):
you that writer Con has a free newsletter that goes
out every month full of interesting articles about writing and
news about what's happening in the world of publishing, an
agents and whatnot. Go to substack search for writer Con,
subscribe to the newsletter. Like I said, it's completely free.
And if after the podcast and the newslet you still
(31:01):
want more and you know who doesn't, go to Facebook
and join the writer con Face group. Facebook group and
obviously free, and somebody's posting something interesting there virtually every day,
So come join the fun. All right, until next time,
Remember keep writing. You cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
(31:26):
All right, See you next time.
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