February 25, 2025 • 32 mins
Bestselling authors William and Lara Bernhardt discuss the latest news from the book world, offer writing tips, and interview Betsey Kulakowski, the author of the Veritas Codex series books—mostly recently, The King's Ransom (Book 7).
Opening Thoughts
Authors Acting Awful
News
1) TikTok/BookTok Survives to Sell Books Another Day!
2) Circana Bookscan 2024 Sales Figures Show Improvement
Craft Corner
Amy M Le explains why you need to be a "HUSTLER."
Interivew with Betsey Kulakowski, author of The Veritas Codex paranormal thriller series.
Parting Words
Don't forget the WriterCon Alaksan Cruise, May 30-June 7 leaving from Seattle. Over 20 hours of writing instruction, large group, small, and individual, while the ship is at sea. Our discounted room rate is only guaranteed through March 2, so make your reservations now! Click for more information. www.writercon.com/cruise/
Opening Thoughts
Authors Acting Awful
News
1) TikTok/BookTok Survives to Sell Books Another Day!
2) Circana Bookscan 2024 Sales Figures Show Improvement
Craft Corner
Amy M Le explains why you need to be a "HUSTLER."
Interivew with Betsey Kulakowski, author of The Veritas Codex paranormal thriller series.
Parting Words
Don't forget the WriterCon Alaksan Cruise, May 30-June 7 leaving from Seattle. Over 20 hours of writing instruction, large group, small, and individual, while the ship is at sea. Our discounted room rate is only guaranteed through March 2, so make your reservations now! Click for more information. www.writercon.com/cruise/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This week on the writer Con podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
But really it's write the book you want to read.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, bestselling novelist and author of the
Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award winning
author of the Want lnd Files book series.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich, Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
us today. As always, I suppose the world is a
total good news, bad news situation good news. Last week,
Rebecca Yarris's new book on extorin Storm, third in her
new series, was released and sold two point seven million
(00:51):
copies in one week, saleslest numbers like book publishers have
not seen in twenty years. Of course, that money is
not going into my pocket. But still, I think she's
put getting a lot of people into the bookstores or
the Target. Maybe, did you, Laur, did you know our
Katie got up in the middle of the night so
(01:11):
she could drive out to Target and get the special
fancy edition of Onyx Storm.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Nope, I had no idea. But I suppose it doesn't
surprise me.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, no, okay, And then Jesse for you will move
to the bad news because you're a resident science fiction expert,
and I, even though we haven't even discussed, I bet
you are aware of the new developments regarding Neil Gaiman,
which you actually mentioned on the last podcast when we
(01:41):
were talking about Cormac McCarthy, Which is why this isn't
going to be a news story in the news section,
because I just can't bear to do that kind of
story again. Was that your suggestion, Jesse, that we should
have a regular feature.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Called, yeah, the Authors acting badly?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yes, behaving bad.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Authors acting awful, So you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Know, breaking bad writers stuff. We can make a thing here.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah authors awfully short version.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Possibly one of the most beloved authors working today, Neil
Gaiman is now involved in the scanned all as a
result of a story broken by Vulture and published in
New Yorker, which allegedly involved some non consensual bad s,
m sex and the phrase call me Master, which is
(02:34):
why that's the title of the story. To be fair,
mister Gamon has denied all this. But here's the question, Jesse,
can I mean, can we I don't even know how
to you know, I remember the Graveyard Book, which I
think maybe his bet well for that matter, I read
(02:55):
What's the one that was the movie with Clara Danes
and Dusty Yeah, I read that one to Alice when
she was young, and then I read The Graveyard Book
to Ralph when he was Now. I'm afraid I'm going
to get arrested or something, because can we go on
reading this guy's books in good conscience?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So I can't remember the guy's name, but someone who
I've enjoyed on NPR's Pop Culture podcast had a whole
article about this, which is where he drew the line
on things like this, like what do you do with
JK Rowling? What do you do with Neil Gaiman? And
it's one of those things where their terrible deeds do
not get to take away the feelings their art created
for you at the time you first read it. So
(03:35):
if you already own that book, you can revisit and
enjoy it all you want. So the goal at this
point is to not give them any more money, right,
and so enjoy what you enjoy, what you already own
and have, and you know, in that case, separate the
art from the arts, but try not to give those
artists any more money. And for listeners slash viewers, of
(03:55):
the show. I read that New Yorker piece and like
the amount of content warnings they had to give you
before you started reading it were plentiful, and they were
one percent right. It is a incredibly unpleasant story. But
I was like, I have to read this because Bill's
gonna ask me about it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
But I read it too, and got me halfway through
and I just couldn't stand it.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
It was I did. I did have to take a
break in the middle. But it's yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Bad, and go ahead and avoid the Yeah, I think
that's I'm glad you guys did the research on it,
and I wrote Shadow of the Taj, which has some
really tough issues in it.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, but that's a novel, honey.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yes, well, yeah, weighted in it's rooted in fact.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Is this your way of saying that one of those
characters is a thinly veiled me.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Oh gosh, no, I didn't even know you when I
read it. No, this is no, no, no, much better
the social issues that plague women around the world. That's
rooted in fact.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I mean that that article did almost take me down
my second favorite rabbit hole, which is just reading crazy
stories about scientology. Because I didn't know he was a scientologist.
And actually I'm very lucky in the sense that I've
never actually read or watched other than one Doctor Who episode.
I've not actually read or watched any Neil game and things.
He's always just been around.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
How can that be?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I just somehow I just wasn't I never had the
time or whatever, And so feel I feel weirdly proud
about that now. But but now I can't enjoy any
of it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So hm right. Our guest today is Betsy Kulikowski, who
is the author of, among other things, the Veritas Codex
series of paranormal thrillers I guess Bigfoot in UFOs, and
they are so much fun to read. She's been on
(05:51):
the podcast before, and she's such a trooper. She's back
again today. I'm looking forward to talking to Betsy.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
But first, the news.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
News story number one TikTok is still available, which you
probably already aware, at least for now. And this concerns
us not because I love watching Judy Dench dance or
anything like that, but because book talk has become such
a huge force something like now, this is a real
(06:38):
statistic one in twelve print books sold last year sold
because of book Talk. I mean, think about that. That's huge. Anyway,
you guys probably know what I'm talking about. As soon
as our new president, Donald Trump took office, he issued
an executive order giving TikTok a seventy five day extension
(07:03):
on the congressionally passed law, which gave them a deadline.
Nobody's really sure if he has the power to alter
legislation that's already passed. But whatever, TikTok is still functioning,
and various groups are scrambling to buy it, like Elon
Musk of course, to combine with X in some way,
(07:23):
I guess, and the one I'm rooting for, mister Beast,
he's putting together a group to buy it. It is
said that, I mean, the underlying issues are clear. About
one hundred and fifty million Americans are now using this app,
which is controlled by a Chinese company, and any Chinese
company is theoretically, at least in principle, subject to the
(07:45):
authority of the Chinese Communist Party, and their general attitude
tends to be do what you're told and give us
what you give us what we want. But one in
every twelve books sold, Laura, can anything really replace book Talk?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Well, I think a few years ago we couldn't you
predicted book talk, so sure something new could come along.
I think, look how quickly it grew in popularity.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
But Jesse, you've got an app, don't you. Maybe this
is an opening for us. Yeah, there we go. We
can actually use the name book talk because nobody else
is gonna you know. Oh, then it's okay, yeah, book talk,
book talk.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think we should just like use the idea of
book talk and move it over to red note. The
new app Jaxi is worse for privacy than TikTok is,
but apparently and like it will introduce us to a
whole new, very large Chinese audience. So I think that's
the way to go. So booknote can called booknote.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I could live with one hundred and fifty million more
readers no matter what country they're in.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You think, So why should we deny? The Chinese people
are great literature. So sorry, okay, yeah, So that's.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
My news story number two, which is also good news.
Sirkana BookScan has released their preliminary at least in book
and brief forms sales analysis for twenty twenty four, and
a lot of it is good, they say in their notes,
And here I'm quoting that twenty twenty four quote marked
a return to growth for the book market following two
(09:31):
years of consecutive declines. And that's good news. I mean, granted,
if you actually look at the charts and whatnot, print
unit sales went up by about one percent, but one
percent is one percent. It's better than going down. And
here's the surprising part. Adult fiction was the strongest segment
of the book market in twenty twenty four, book talk
(09:54):
still being very important, book talk author sales grew nearly
twenty percent as opposed to twenty twenty three. That's the
fifth year of growth for that. And also some nonfiction,
particularly religious nonfiction and bibles gift journals did very well.
The losers this time are young adult and children's books,
(10:17):
which makes me wonder are they considering Rebecca Yarros's titles
adult fiction now, because otherwise how could hya fiction be
going down? How old are the characters in that book, Laura?
I mean, I read the first one too, but I
don't remember they're older than seventeen.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Though, right, yes, I think so. I mean they're old
enough to be consenting adults. And she's a little younger,
but still she's basically going off to college.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
So and most of the audience is really in their twenties, right,
It's not it's not like kids.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So it's it's spicy, I don't. I mean, I guess
our kids can be reading a little bit heavier stuff
than what they did in the past, but I think.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It's more adult. That's true probably in every field. Though.
I remember when I was researching my Elliott ness book
it's called Nemesis, and I'd read that the first adaptation
of his book The Untouchables for television was widely reviled
because it's so violent. And I watched a couple of those,
(11:33):
and I'm like, you'd let your two year old watch this? Now,
there's nothing yeah about this, So Jesse, I think we
can safely say that twenty twenty five will not be
the best year for Neil Gayman or Cormac McCarthy. Probably,
But are there some shining lights out there, some people
(11:54):
you'd like to see get discovered.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Who get discovered? I was just INSI, well, again, I'm waiting.
I'm waiting until this trilogy finishes. But the two the
two writers who he name is James S. A. Corey,
who wrote the Expanse book series and worked on the
TV show. Are working on a news sort of sci
(12:17):
fi trilogy. I think the first book came out last year,
and I'm just waiting because I know they publish on time.
I'm waiting for them to finish it and then I
will read all of it. So I'm excited because, yeah,
unlike every other fun sci fi fantasy person I read,
they and other than Brandon Sanerson, they tell you when
they're going to publish it and work a schedule and
(12:38):
then release the thing, which is nice on time.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
But you know who else I'm waiting for. I'm going
a weird reading slump at the moment because I finished
that huge Sanderson book and then finished another fantasy book
that I was waiting on, and now I'm just like,
what do I do with myself now? So I'm deep
dive into listen. I'm always up for a new Neil
Stevenson novel. So if he's worked on something.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Really you read, you can finish those really, yeah, listen.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I love them and I argue with people all the
time about why I love them, and I'm I'm I'm
just his target audience. I don't mind spending forty pages
on a deep dive about Farrell hogs or weird time
travel things or the history of science.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Like Moby Dick has digressions, and yeah, that's a classic.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So yeah, yeah, And I've tried reading Moby Dick and
that does not go well for me. So can he
was being he was being paid by the word and
you can, and you one hundred percent feel that when
you read Moby Dick.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Oh well, here's the it needs a red letter. I'm
really digressing now, But you know how some Bibles have
like read ink for the words spoken by Jesus. There
needs to be a reading version of Moby Dick where
the actual story is in read ink what everybody loves
and then the other interjections which only English professors loves.
(13:56):
Then you notice skip it right.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, I remember. It took me like three times
to read The Count of Monte Cristo because there's a weird,
tangent story right in the middle of it that has
nothing to do with the rest of the story until
much much later. And I was like, what is this?
Why do I care? Why am I ringing about this?
I'm like, yeah, because like he had words, he had
a word limit. He had to get two.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So did you finish it?
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Did?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I did a great movie from France. I heard that.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I need to watch that.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Okay. Today in craft Corner we have Amy m Lee,
who you may remember was a guest on a previous podcast.
She's the author of the Snow trilogy and she owns
quill Hawk, a company which is cists writers hoping to publish.
Her topic today is perfect because it's something she knows
a lot about, and that's specifically the art of hustling
(14:49):
in a good way. Art of hustling. Take it away,
Amy Craft Quarner.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
Okay, so you've written a book, or you're about to
write a book, or you're in the middle of writing
a book and you need to have it read. The
best thing you can do is hustle. In the art
of hustling, there is an easy way to remember what
each of the letter stands for. So in h you
want to really hone in on your niche and your
audience and the brand that you're representing. Being unconventional, that's
(15:23):
the you in hustler, and that means being a trailblazer.
That means thinking outside of the box. Simplifying is the
s in hustler, and that means to be intentional and purposeful.
So you're not taking the shotgun approach. You're taking the
spaghetti approach, which means you're not just firing for the
sake of firing and hoping something sticks and lands. You
(15:45):
are actually being intentional. And you know how you cook spaghetting.
You throw it up against the wall and it sticks.
That's when you know you've got the right plan. The
other thing is timing. So being a hustler means you're
seizing the opportunities as it comes to you immediately, not oh,
I'll follow up with it later. No, you do it
right now, or you set a reminder on your phone
(16:06):
or whatever to say, okay, Amy, follow up on this
lead in the next twenty four hours, or set a
reminder for so. The other thing is being a hutler
involves learning. You're always going to be staying up to
date with the trends, always following up with technology, world news,
rules of engagement, and the really the best way to
(16:28):
do that is follow writer con go to the conferences,
go to the crews, the workshops, listen to the podcast.
You can learn so much and Bill and Laura they're
so good about staying up to date on what's happening
in the news in the writing community. So the L
I mean sorry, the E and ingate is engaging and
that means networking, socializing, collaborating, and community. So make sure
(16:52):
that you're always get putting yourself out there. It's hard,
I know, as most of us are introverts, but pick
something that you really enjoy and focus on that. I
love football, for example, and I'm always engaged with the
you know, the Seattle Seahawks community, and we're always doing
things to organize events, fundraisers, that that kind of thing.
So do what you're passionate about and get yourself out there.
(17:15):
And then are you know a hustler. A good hustler
has to recharge. You've got to have some batteries, some
gas in your tank to continue going. And so take
the time to relax, reflect and recharge. So that, in
a nutshell, is the art of hustling. And I hope
you go out there and hustle away, because if you
(17:38):
want to be read, you've got to do the job market, promote,
and hustle.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So good luck, Thank you so much. Now let's talk
to Betsy Kulakowski. Betsy Kulakowski, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Welcome back. I should say. Obviously you've been on before,
and I will just say you are a real trooper.
You did not have a lot of notice and we
have being our guest today, so you already know what
the first question will be. You're just going to have
to think of a new answer for it. That's always
that you could offer writers one piece of advice. What
(18:22):
would it be?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Wow, you know I have this question a lot, and
I always have a different answer. But really it's write
the book you want to read. And you know, I
think it's important that we all write that book because
I grew up with the books that I wanted to
read weren't out there. So my mother had always said,
if you want to be a writer, write the books
you want to read. So that's what I do.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Great advice.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Very so.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
You are best known in the writing world for the
Veritas Codex, which now has seven books in books.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm currently working on eight and I've already got all
the way through eleven done.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Oh holy smokes, Okay, you just don't sleep or something.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I'm guessing right, lots of caffeine, okay, really really fast.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, it's not the only thing is that it is caffeine.
Is that the secret?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, that's the secret. Because I'm sitting here, I've got
my coffee cup, I've got my coke zero, and I
probably have a diet doctor Pepper sitting somewhere that I haven't.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Finished several injections or actually all day.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Well, anyway, when did you first When did you first publish?
When did the first book?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Well? I started writing when I was six because I
knew I wanted to be a writer. But the Veritas
Codex came out in uh September of twenty twenty, in
the middle of the pandemic.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Oh of course. Yeah, okay that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Was probably not a lot of bookstore appearances, No.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Not for a couple of years. Did a lot of podcasts,
but yeah, I'm getting into some bookstores now. I'm trying
to get I just recently moved, so I'm trying to
get into the local community here. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I was gonna say, you've had kind of a big upheaval,
so I imagine your daily schedule is upheaved. But I
just used the same thing in anyway, if we could
go back and edit. But as soon as you as
(20:24):
soon as you get settled, this is gonna be a
good thing for you.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
You are going to be able to transition into writing
full time, aren't you.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Most of my full time we'll be writing. I don't
know if you can see in the background, but for
those of us who are watching on YouTube, my office
is a mess because I'm still unpacking. I don't really
know where to put stuff at the moment. But we
did move. My mother in law needed some help in Arkansas,
and so my husband was committed to taking care of
his mom. So we picked up and moved. We're in
the process of selling the house in Oklahoma City, and
(20:57):
so I am working right now parily full time as
a writer. I do have a couple of side safety
gigs that I'm going to be doing. I'm going to
be teaching some classes online. So yeah, writing's going to
be going to be my career. And the first week
where I sat down and actually wrote, please don't hate me.
I wrote fifteen thousand words this week.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Amazing. You're like, listen to dream now, Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
The dream seven chapters of a new book done.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay, for the uninitiated, what's the Veratas Codex series about it?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
The Veritak Codex follows the adventures of doctor Lauren Grayson
who is a biological anthropologist and she has a television
show on cable called The Veritas Codex where they go
on the search for the answers to the world's greatest mysteries.
And in the first book, they're looking for Bigfoot in
the Pacific Northwest, and in the middle of the investigation,
Lauren disappears and all the evidence points to the fact
(21:55):
that she was abducted by Bigfoot. When she comes back
ten days later, she's injured. She has no memory of
what happened to her. So was it Aliens? Was it Bigfoot?
And she can't remember m.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
So, and all of the books in the series have
something it's big Foot.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Another episode of the Showlender.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It's did you watch In Search of with Leonard Nimoy
when you were a kid?
Speaker 6 (22:22):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I watched all of those shows.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yes, I was totally convinced there were UFOs. Not so
much anymore, but that's probably because Leonard's not around to
convince me it's true.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
But his his replacement. I guess you would say has
taken over that show.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
So it's still the replacement.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I did not know that, Zachary quinto.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Oh, how it really meant his replacement? Yes, not all
over the internet.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I know it should be. It's on the I think
it's on Discovery. Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Okay, So the last book in this series was The
Pirate's Quest, right, the.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Last book seven was actually The King's Ransom.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
The King's Ransom, but there was a pirate, right.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yes, The Pirate is my favorite one to write.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Me out here, The King's Ransom. What happens in that one?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The King's Ransom is kind of a test of Rowan,
who is Lauren's love interest, and it really puts him
to the test because dark forces are at play and
they they're using him to get to Lauren. And she
has challenges of her own. Her family has gone missing.
She's the one still left behind trying to find everybody,
(23:41):
and it really tests her metal and the powers that
she's been given by the universe, and she's able to,
you know, she's got to go out and try to
find Rowan and save him. So this time the damsel
in distress is a.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Guy, a fantastic. Now, you said there were going to
be eleven books in these. When you've written that many,
I can't believe that you would end on a prime number.
You're going to move forward, right, how many of these
do you see happening?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So I have the arc through book twelve, and I
had an idea come up for a possible book thirteen,
So I'll startle back to that when I have time.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I can see ending with three. Yeah, because of course
that's Taylor Swift's favorite number. Right, also bad luck for
some peoplay right, right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I did a book called The Lost Templar, which is
book five, and of course we know that the Friday
the thirteenth myth comes from Templar history.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
They were didn't go I did.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
They were shut down by the Catholic Church and the
King of France because they had gotten too powerful, and
they were attacked on Friday the thirteenth back in the
thirteen hundreds, and so thirteen is an important number in
the series.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Now it's starting to make sense. Yeah, okay, but this
is not the only thing you do have done or
will do.
Speaker 6 (25:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
You've also am I right, you've published some novellas.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, I have a couple of novellas that are out
in a horror anthology that come out every year around Halloween,
and it's it's meant to give back to the community
because the writers, we don't get paid for it. We
donate all the proceeds to provide to fight human trafficking.
So that is the Autumn Tails series by Anatolian Press.
So I've got a couple of anthologies in those m
(25:29):
good work. So when.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
You are settled into your normal routine, like when things
aren't crazy for you.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, what does your process look like?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
What's a typical writing day for you? Right?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
The typical writing day is a new definition because I've
really only had a couple of weeks to kind of
settle into this. Last week was very interesting because I
got up Monday morning at eight o'clock. I had an
idea that had hit me Sunday, spent all day kind
of ruminating and dreaming over thinking about it, sat down
Monday morning and wrote the opening lines and didn't quit
until I had almost four thousand words written. And that
(26:06):
was about five o'clock that evening, and I stopped midday
and head lunch. I'm kind of hoping that's what a
normal writing day will look like once I really settle
into it. Yeah. I wrote almost completely that week last
week exactly in that schedule, so when I quit at
five o'clock on Friday, i'd made some real progress.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
I also always ask you know this, can you tell
us please if you are a planner or pancer.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I think in one of the episodes you guys were
talking about some new terms for that an archaeologist or
an architect archaeologist being the pancer and the architect being
the planner, and I'm kind of a I'm a hybrid
of that. I consider myself an archaeologist with a dig plan.
I know what's out there, I know what I want
to end up with you. I've got the light our
(27:00):
scans to prove what's down there. I just got to
dig it up and make sure that's what it is.
So I kind of start out with the plot in
my mind and where I want it to end. So
I kind of have a theme going through and I
kind of write to that ending. The Monks Grimoire was
one of those I wrote really fast. I wrote that
one in twenty three days when I was working full time.
(27:22):
By the way, and the only thing that Yeah, the
only thing that kept me going on that one was
this plot that I had, or this theme that I
had in my head, that the devil had it coming,
and that's what I wrote to.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
But when you say you wrote it in twenty three days,
you mean the first draft? Yes, twenty three and done.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Oh no, there's always drafts and drafts and drafts.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Anything else you'd like to promote, Betsy, No.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Other than just I'm excited about writer Con coming up
in September. Looking forward to that. I'm making some new
friends here in Arkansas I'm hoping to bring along with me, so,
you know, building that community here.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Well, I'll do a writer Con question and then we
can wrap it up.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
So do you, Oh, did you still want me to
try to ask something more? I've done with it. I
don't know, so do you. I'm kind of fascinated with
what you're describing as your process because I think mine
actually might be the same.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I do.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I do categorize myself as a planner because I will
definitely do the homework beforehand. I go through and I
think about my plot, my theme, my character, what the
growth is going to be, and I do a very
very rudimentary outline, but then I definitely discover things along
(28:44):
the way.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
So I guess, what.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Does your pre work look like? Do you do you outline?
Do you put things there you don't?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay, I probably should, but I don't. I do this.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I have this, and everybody's so different. I have kind
of this, I think, probably unique to me, where I
have the idea, I just open up what I call
the ideas page and save that forever. I just start
spewing all of the thoughts and ideas that are churning
into something that I can go back and look at later,
(29:16):
and then I kind of work through it for myself,
and then I'll start my outline. And in a series,
I do have a Bible things that I need to
make sure that I go back and keep the same,
but I know things change every time. I'll go back
(29:37):
and look at my outline after I've finished the book,
and it amuses me how much it kind of developed
as I was working on it. Do you keep a
Veritas Codex Bible? Do you have something to make sure
that you or is it just so cemented in your
mind that you don't even need it.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, I would have to say I don't have those
kind of records, and I kind of wish I did,
because there's times where I'm like, Okay, which college did
I say he went to? Or what color was that
guy's eyes? I don't remember, and I have to go
back and try to look it up. Maybe I'm more
of a discovery writer because I'll write for a little
bit and then I'm like, Okay, I need to know
a fact about like Brazilian jiu jitsu, and so I'll
(30:17):
have to go and do some research because I don't
know anything about martial arts. And then i'll write. I'll
get that detail worked out, and I may come back
to that a couple of times before I'm really happy
with it. But then I'll write for a little while
and then I'll come up with, Okay, what's the entrance
fee to the Library of Congress. Can you go into
this part of the library and actually touch the stuff?
You know, what statues are in this corner? And then
(30:39):
I'll have to go and look that up. So I
kind of research as I go, And so a bit
of a discovery writer, I guess in that aspect.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Hey, Betsy Kellen de writer com this year, Oh.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I wouldn't miss it for the world, and I'm hoping
to bring some of my new friends with me. So
I'm yeah, Arkansas friends here and hoping I can bring
some of them along for the ride.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Betsy, thanks for pitching in and helping out and being
on the podcast. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Oh you bet see you soon, Bike.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Just a few parting words. You've heard me if you've
been listening to the podcast talking about the writer Con Cruise,
But come on, how can I not? It's coming up
and it's the next writer Con program. After that, we'll
have the retreat and we'll have the conference on Labor
Day weekend. You can go to the website and read
about all of it. But the cruise is at the
end of May. And if you're like us here in
(31:45):
Oklahoma where it's finally starting to get warm again, you're thinking,
how could I get really cold like I was last week?
And the answer is, come on the Alaska and writer
Con Cruise. We're gonna have a lot of fun being
to get over twenty hours of writing instruction, I mean
hands on reading your work, talking to you group, small, group,
(32:09):
one on ones, whatever you want, it will be us agents.
We can find someone who can give you the help
you need to move your career to the next level.
All right, so check the website writercon dot com and
find out more about that. Until next time, keep writing
(32:30):
and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
See you next time.
This week on the writer Con podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
But really it's write the book you want to read.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
hosts are William Bernhardt, bestselling novelist and author of the
Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award winning
author of the Want lnd Files book series.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Thank you, Jesse Ulrich, Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
us today. As always, I suppose the world is a
total good news, bad news situation good news. Last week,
Rebecca Yarris's new book on extorin Storm, third in her
new series, was released and sold two point seven million
(00:51):
copies in one week, saleslest numbers like book publishers have
not seen in twenty years. Of course, that money is
not going into my pocket. But still, I think she's
put getting a lot of people into the bookstores or
the Target. Maybe, did you, Laur, did you know our
Katie got up in the middle of the night so
(01:11):
she could drive out to Target and get the special
fancy edition of Onyx Storm.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Nope, I had no idea. But I suppose it doesn't
surprise me.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, no, okay, And then Jesse for you will move
to the bad news because you're a resident science fiction expert,
and I, even though we haven't even discussed, I bet
you are aware of the new developments regarding Neil Gaiman,
which you actually mentioned on the last podcast when we
(01:41):
were talking about Cormac McCarthy, Which is why this isn't
going to be a news story in the news section,
because I just can't bear to do that kind of
story again. Was that your suggestion, Jesse, that we should
have a regular feature.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Called, yeah, the Authors acting badly?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yes, behaving bad.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Authors acting awful, So you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Know, breaking bad writers stuff. We can make a thing here.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah authors awfully short version.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Possibly one of the most beloved authors working today, Neil
Gaiman is now involved in the scanned all as a
result of a story broken by Vulture and published in
New Yorker, which allegedly involved some non consensual bad s,
m sex and the phrase call me Master, which is
(02:34):
why that's the title of the story. To be fair,
mister Gamon has denied all this. But here's the question, Jesse,
can I mean, can we I don't even know how
to you know, I remember the Graveyard Book, which I
think maybe his bet well for that matter, I read
(02:55):
What's the one that was the movie with Clara Danes
and Dusty Yeah, I read that one to Alice when
she was young, and then I read The Graveyard Book
to Ralph when he was Now. I'm afraid I'm going
to get arrested or something, because can we go on
reading this guy's books in good conscience?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So I can't remember the guy's name, but someone who
I've enjoyed on NPR's Pop Culture podcast had a whole
article about this, which is where he drew the line
on things like this, like what do you do with
JK Rowling? What do you do with Neil Gaiman? And
it's one of those things where their terrible deeds do
not get to take away the feelings their art created
for you at the time you first read it. So
(03:35):
if you already own that book, you can revisit and
enjoy it all you want. So the goal at this
point is to not give them any more money, right,
and so enjoy what you enjoy, what you already own
and have, and you know, in that case, separate the
art from the arts, but try not to give those
artists any more money. And for listeners slash viewers, of
(03:55):
the show. I read that New Yorker piece and like
the amount of content warnings they had to give you
before you started reading it were plentiful, and they were
one percent right. It is a incredibly unpleasant story. But
I was like, I have to read this because Bill's
gonna ask me about it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
But I read it too, and got me halfway through
and I just couldn't stand it.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
It was I did. I did have to take a
break in the middle. But it's yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Bad, and go ahead and avoid the Yeah, I think
that's I'm glad you guys did the research on it,
and I wrote Shadow of the Taj, which has some
really tough issues in it.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, but that's a novel, honey.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yes, well, yeah, weighted in it's rooted in fact.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Is this your way of saying that one of those
characters is a thinly veiled me.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Oh gosh, no, I didn't even know you when I
read it. No, this is no, no, no, much better
the social issues that plague women around the world. That's
rooted in fact.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I mean that that article did almost take me down
my second favorite rabbit hole, which is just reading crazy
stories about scientology. Because I didn't know he was a scientologist.
And actually I'm very lucky in the sense that I've
never actually read or watched other than one Doctor Who episode.
I've not actually read or watched any Neil game and things.
He's always just been around.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
How can that be?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I just somehow I just wasn't I never had the
time or whatever, And so feel I feel weirdly proud
about that now. But but now I can't enjoy any
of it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So hm right. Our guest today is Betsy Kulikowski, who
is the author of, among other things, the Veritas Codex
series of paranormal thrillers I guess Bigfoot in UFOs, and
they are so much fun to read. She's been on
(05:51):
the podcast before, and she's such a trooper. She's back
again today. I'm looking forward to talking to Betsy.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
But first, the news.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
News story number one TikTok is still available, which you
probably already aware, at least for now. And this concerns
us not because I love watching Judy Dench dance or
anything like that, but because book talk has become such
a huge force something like now, this is a real
(06:38):
statistic one in twelve print books sold last year sold
because of book Talk. I mean, think about that. That's huge. Anyway,
you guys probably know what I'm talking about. As soon
as our new president, Donald Trump took office, he issued
an executive order giving TikTok a seventy five day extension
(07:03):
on the congressionally passed law, which gave them a deadline.
Nobody's really sure if he has the power to alter
legislation that's already passed. But whatever, TikTok is still functioning,
and various groups are scrambling to buy it, like Elon
Musk of course, to combine with X in some way,
(07:23):
I guess, and the one I'm rooting for, mister Beast,
he's putting together a group to buy it. It is
said that, I mean, the underlying issues are clear. About
one hundred and fifty million Americans are now using this app,
which is controlled by a Chinese company, and any Chinese
company is theoretically, at least in principle, subject to the
(07:45):
authority of the Chinese Communist Party, and their general attitude
tends to be do what you're told and give us
what you give us what we want. But one in
every twelve books sold, Laura, can anything really replace book Talk?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Well, I think a few years ago we couldn't you
predicted book talk, so sure something new could come along.
I think, look how quickly it grew in popularity.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
But Jesse, you've got an app, don't you. Maybe this
is an opening for us. Yeah, there we go. We
can actually use the name book talk because nobody else
is gonna you know. Oh, then it's okay, yeah, book talk,
book talk.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think we should just like use the idea of
book talk and move it over to red note. The
new app Jaxi is worse for privacy than TikTok is,
but apparently and like it will introduce us to a
whole new, very large Chinese audience. So I think that's
the way to go. So booknote can called booknote.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I could live with one hundred and fifty million more
readers no matter what country they're in.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You think, So why should we deny? The Chinese people
are great literature. So sorry, okay, yeah, So that's.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
My news story number two, which is also good news.
Sirkana BookScan has released their preliminary at least in book
and brief forms sales analysis for twenty twenty four, and
a lot of it is good, they say in their notes,
And here I'm quoting that twenty twenty four quote marked
a return to growth for the book market following two
(09:31):
years of consecutive declines. And that's good news. I mean, granted,
if you actually look at the charts and whatnot, print
unit sales went up by about one percent, but one
percent is one percent. It's better than going down. And
here's the surprising part. Adult fiction was the strongest segment
of the book market in twenty twenty four, book talk
(09:54):
still being very important, book talk author sales grew nearly
twenty percent as opposed to twenty twenty three. That's the
fifth year of growth for that. And also some nonfiction,
particularly religious nonfiction and bibles gift journals did very well.
The losers this time are young adult and children's books,
(10:17):
which makes me wonder are they considering Rebecca Yarros's titles
adult fiction now, because otherwise how could hya fiction be
going down? How old are the characters in that book, Laura?
I mean, I read the first one too, but I
don't remember they're older than seventeen.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Though, right, yes, I think so. I mean they're old
enough to be consenting adults. And she's a little younger,
but still she's basically going off to college.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
So and most of the audience is really in their twenties, right,
It's not it's not like kids.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So it's it's spicy, I don't. I mean, I guess
our kids can be reading a little bit heavier stuff
than what they did in the past, but I think.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It's more adult. That's true probably in every field. Though.
I remember when I was researching my Elliott ness book
it's called Nemesis, and I'd read that the first adaptation
of his book The Untouchables for television was widely reviled
because it's so violent. And I watched a couple of those,
(11:33):
and I'm like, you'd let your two year old watch this? Now,
there's nothing yeah about this, So Jesse, I think we
can safely say that twenty twenty five will not be
the best year for Neil Gayman or Cormac McCarthy. Probably,
But are there some shining lights out there, some people
(11:54):
you'd like to see get discovered.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Who get discovered? I was just INSI, well, again, I'm waiting.
I'm waiting until this trilogy finishes. But the two the
two writers who he name is James S. A. Corey,
who wrote the Expanse book series and worked on the
TV show. Are working on a news sort of sci
(12:17):
fi trilogy. I think the first book came out last year,
and I'm just waiting because I know they publish on time.
I'm waiting for them to finish it and then I
will read all of it. So I'm excited because, yeah,
unlike every other fun sci fi fantasy person I read,
they and other than Brandon Sanerson, they tell you when
they're going to publish it and work a schedule and
(12:38):
then release the thing, which is nice on time.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
But you know who else I'm waiting for. I'm going
a weird reading slump at the moment because I finished
that huge Sanderson book and then finished another fantasy book
that I was waiting on, and now I'm just like,
what do I do with myself now? So I'm deep
dive into listen. I'm always up for a new Neil
Stevenson novel. So if he's worked on something.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Really you read, you can finish those really, yeah, listen.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I love them and I argue with people all the
time about why I love them, and I'm I'm I'm
just his target audience. I don't mind spending forty pages
on a deep dive about Farrell hogs or weird time
travel things or the history of science.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Like Moby Dick has digressions, and yeah, that's a classic.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So yeah, yeah, And I've tried reading Moby Dick and
that does not go well for me. So can he
was being he was being paid by the word and
you can, and you one hundred percent feel that when
you read Moby Dick.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Oh well, here's the it needs a red letter. I'm
really digressing now, But you know how some Bibles have
like read ink for the words spoken by Jesus. There
needs to be a reading version of Moby Dick where
the actual story is in read ink what everybody loves
and then the other interjections which only English professors loves.
(13:56):
Then you notice skip it right.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, I remember. It took me like three times
to read The Count of Monte Cristo because there's a weird,
tangent story right in the middle of it that has
nothing to do with the rest of the story until
much much later. And I was like, what is this?
Why do I care? Why am I ringing about this?
I'm like, yeah, because like he had words, he had
a word limit. He had to get two.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So did you finish it?
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Did?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I did a great movie from France. I heard that.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I need to watch that.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Okay. Today in craft Corner we have Amy m Lee,
who you may remember was a guest on a previous podcast.
She's the author of the Snow trilogy and she owns
quill Hawk, a company which is cists writers hoping to publish.
Her topic today is perfect because it's something she knows
a lot about, and that's specifically the art of hustling
(14:49):
in a good way. Art of hustling. Take it away,
Amy Craft Quarner.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
Okay, so you've written a book, or you're about to
write a book, or you're in the middle of writing
a book and you need to have it read. The
best thing you can do is hustle. In the art
of hustling, there is an easy way to remember what
each of the letter stands for. So in h you
want to really hone in on your niche and your
audience and the brand that you're representing. Being unconventional, that's
(15:23):
the you in hustler, and that means being a trailblazer.
That means thinking outside of the box. Simplifying is the
s in hustler, and that means to be intentional and purposeful.
So you're not taking the shotgun approach. You're taking the
spaghetti approach, which means you're not just firing for the
sake of firing and hoping something sticks and lands. You
(15:45):
are actually being intentional. And you know how you cook spaghetting.
You throw it up against the wall and it sticks.
That's when you know you've got the right plan. The
other thing is timing. So being a hustler means you're
seizing the opportunities as it comes to you immediately, not oh,
I'll follow up with it later. No, you do it
right now, or you set a reminder on your phone
(16:06):
or whatever to say, okay, Amy, follow up on this
lead in the next twenty four hours, or set a
reminder for so. The other thing is being a hutler
involves learning. You're always going to be staying up to
date with the trends, always following up with technology, world news,
rules of engagement, and the really the best way to
(16:28):
do that is follow writer con go to the conferences,
go to the crews, the workshops, listen to the podcast.
You can learn so much and Bill and Laura they're
so good about staying up to date on what's happening
in the news in the writing community. So the L
I mean sorry, the E and ingate is engaging and
that means networking, socializing, collaborating, and community. So make sure
(16:52):
that you're always get putting yourself out there. It's hard,
I know, as most of us are introverts, but pick
something that you really enjoy and focus on that. I
love football, for example, and I'm always engaged with the
you know, the Seattle Seahawks community, and we're always doing
things to organize events, fundraisers, that that kind of thing.
So do what you're passionate about and get yourself out there.
(17:15):
And then are you know a hustler. A good hustler
has to recharge. You've got to have some batteries, some
gas in your tank to continue going. And so take
the time to relax, reflect and recharge. So that, in
a nutshell, is the art of hustling. And I hope
you go out there and hustle away, because if you
(17:38):
want to be read, you've got to do the job market, promote,
and hustle.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So good luck, Thank you so much. Now let's talk
to Betsy Kulakowski. Betsy Kulakowski, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Welcome back. I should say. Obviously you've been on before,
and I will just say you are a real trooper.
You did not have a lot of notice and we
have being our guest today, so you already know what
the first question will be. You're just going to have
to think of a new answer for it. That's always
that you could offer writers one piece of advice. What
(18:22):
would it be?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Wow, you know I have this question a lot, and
I always have a different answer. But really it's write
the book you want to read. And you know, I
think it's important that we all write that book because
I grew up with the books that I wanted to
read weren't out there. So my mother had always said,
if you want to be a writer, write the books
you want to read. So that's what I do.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Great advice.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Very so.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
You are best known in the writing world for the
Veritas Codex, which now has seven books in books.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm currently working on eight and I've already got all
the way through eleven done.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Oh holy smokes, Okay, you just don't sleep or something.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I'm guessing right, lots of caffeine, okay, really really fast.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, it's not the only thing is that it is caffeine.
Is that the secret?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, that's the secret. Because I'm sitting here, I've got
my coffee cup, I've got my coke zero, and I
probably have a diet doctor Pepper sitting somewhere that I haven't.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Finished several injections or actually all day.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Well, anyway, when did you first When did you first publish?
When did the first book?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Well? I started writing when I was six because I
knew I wanted to be a writer. But the Veritas
Codex came out in uh September of twenty twenty, in
the middle of the pandemic.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Oh of course. Yeah, okay that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Was probably not a lot of bookstore appearances, No.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Not for a couple of years. Did a lot of podcasts,
but yeah, I'm getting into some bookstores now. I'm trying
to get I just recently moved, so I'm trying to
get into the local community here. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I was gonna say, you've had kind of a big upheaval,
so I imagine your daily schedule is upheaved. But I
just used the same thing in anyway, if we could
go back and edit. But as soon as you as
(20:24):
soon as you get settled, this is gonna be a
good thing for you.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
You are going to be able to transition into writing
full time, aren't you.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Most of my full time we'll be writing. I don't
know if you can see in the background, but for
those of us who are watching on YouTube, my office
is a mess because I'm still unpacking. I don't really
know where to put stuff at the moment. But we
did move. My mother in law needed some help in Arkansas,
and so my husband was committed to taking care of
his mom. So we picked up and moved. We're in
the process of selling the house in Oklahoma City, and
(20:57):
so I am working right now parily full time as
a writer. I do have a couple of side safety
gigs that I'm going to be doing. I'm going to
be teaching some classes online. So yeah, writing's going to
be going to be my career. And the first week
where I sat down and actually wrote, please don't hate me.
I wrote fifteen thousand words this week.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Amazing. You're like, listen to dream now, Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
The dream seven chapters of a new book done.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay, for the uninitiated, what's the Veratas Codex series about it?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
The Veritak Codex follows the adventures of doctor Lauren Grayson
who is a biological anthropologist and she has a television
show on cable called The Veritas Codex where they go
on the search for the answers to the world's greatest mysteries.
And in the first book, they're looking for Bigfoot in
the Pacific Northwest, and in the middle of the investigation,
Lauren disappears and all the evidence points to the fact
(21:55):
that she was abducted by Bigfoot. When she comes back
ten days later, she's injured. She has no memory of
what happened to her. So was it Aliens? Was it Bigfoot?
And she can't remember m.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
So, and all of the books in the series have
something it's big Foot.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Another episode of the Showlender.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It's did you watch In Search of with Leonard Nimoy
when you were a kid?
Speaker 6 (22:22):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I watched all of those shows.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yes, I was totally convinced there were UFOs. Not so
much anymore, but that's probably because Leonard's not around to
convince me it's true.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
But his his replacement. I guess you would say has
taken over that show.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
So it's still the replacement.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I did not know that, Zachary quinto.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Oh, how it really meant his replacement? Yes, not all
over the internet.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I know it should be. It's on the I think
it's on Discovery. Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Okay, So the last book in this series was The
Pirate's Quest, right, the.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Last book seven was actually The King's Ransom.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
The King's Ransom, but there was a pirate, right.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yes, The Pirate is my favorite one to write.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Me out here, The King's Ransom. What happens in that one?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The King's Ransom is kind of a test of Rowan,
who is Lauren's love interest, and it really puts him
to the test because dark forces are at play and
they they're using him to get to Lauren. And she
has challenges of her own. Her family has gone missing.
She's the one still left behind trying to find everybody,
(23:41):
and it really tests her metal and the powers that
she's been given by the universe, and she's able to,
you know, she's got to go out and try to
find Rowan and save him. So this time the damsel
in distress is a.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Guy, a fantastic. Now, you said there were going to
be eleven books in these. When you've written that many,
I can't believe that you would end on a prime number.
You're going to move forward, right, how many of these
do you see happening?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So I have the arc through book twelve, and I
had an idea come up for a possible book thirteen,
So I'll startle back to that when I have time.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I can see ending with three. Yeah, because of course
that's Taylor Swift's favorite number. Right, also bad luck for
some peoplay right, right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I did a book called The Lost Templar, which is
book five, and of course we know that the Friday
the thirteenth myth comes from Templar history.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
They were didn't go I did.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
They were shut down by the Catholic Church and the
King of France because they had gotten too powerful, and
they were attacked on Friday the thirteenth back in the
thirteen hundreds, and so thirteen is an important number in
the series.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Now it's starting to make sense. Yeah, okay, but this
is not the only thing you do have done or
will do.
Speaker 6 (25:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
You've also am I right, you've published some novellas.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, I have a couple of novellas that are out
in a horror anthology that come out every year around Halloween,
and it's it's meant to give back to the community
because the writers, we don't get paid for it. We
donate all the proceeds to provide to fight human trafficking.
So that is the Autumn Tails series by Anatolian Press.
So I've got a couple of anthologies in those m
(25:29):
good work. So when.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
You are settled into your normal routine, like when things
aren't crazy for you.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, what does your process look like?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
What's a typical writing day for you? Right?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
The typical writing day is a new definition because I've
really only had a couple of weeks to kind of
settle into this. Last week was very interesting because I
got up Monday morning at eight o'clock. I had an
idea that had hit me Sunday, spent all day kind
of ruminating and dreaming over thinking about it, sat down
Monday morning and wrote the opening lines and didn't quit
until I had almost four thousand words written. And that
(26:06):
was about five o'clock that evening, and I stopped midday
and head lunch. I'm kind of hoping that's what a
normal writing day will look like once I really settle
into it. Yeah. I wrote almost completely that week last
week exactly in that schedule, so when I quit at
five o'clock on Friday, i'd made some real progress.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
I also always ask you know this, can you tell
us please if you are a planner or pancer.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I think in one of the episodes you guys were
talking about some new terms for that an archaeologist or
an architect archaeologist being the pancer and the architect being
the planner, and I'm kind of a I'm a hybrid
of that. I consider myself an archaeologist with a dig plan.
I know what's out there, I know what I want
to end up with you. I've got the light our
(27:00):
scans to prove what's down there. I just got to
dig it up and make sure that's what it is.
So I kind of start out with the plot in
my mind and where I want it to end. So
I kind of have a theme going through and I
kind of write to that ending. The Monks Grimoire was
one of those I wrote really fast. I wrote that
one in twenty three days when I was working full time.
(27:22):
By the way, and the only thing that Yeah, the
only thing that kept me going on that one was
this plot that I had, or this theme that I
had in my head, that the devil had it coming,
and that's what I wrote to.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
But when you say you wrote it in twenty three days,
you mean the first draft? Yes, twenty three and done.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Oh no, there's always drafts and drafts and drafts.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Anything else you'd like to promote, Betsy, No.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Other than just I'm excited about writer Con coming up
in September. Looking forward to that. I'm making some new
friends here in Arkansas I'm hoping to bring along with me, so,
you know, building that community here.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Well, I'll do a writer Con question and then we
can wrap it up.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
So do you, Oh, did you still want me to
try to ask something more? I've done with it. I
don't know, so do you. I'm kind of fascinated with
what you're describing as your process because I think mine
actually might be the same.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I do.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I do categorize myself as a planner because I will
definitely do the homework beforehand. I go through and I
think about my plot, my theme, my character, what the
growth is going to be, and I do a very
very rudimentary outline, but then I definitely discover things along
(28:44):
the way.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
So I guess, what.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Does your pre work look like? Do you do you outline?
Do you put things there you don't?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay, I probably should, but I don't. I do this.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I have this, and everybody's so different. I have kind
of this, I think, probably unique to me, where I
have the idea, I just open up what I call
the ideas page and save that forever. I just start
spewing all of the thoughts and ideas that are churning
into something that I can go back and look at later,
(29:16):
and then I kind of work through it for myself,
and then I'll start my outline. And in a series,
I do have a Bible things that I need to
make sure that I go back and keep the same,
but I know things change every time. I'll go back
(29:37):
and look at my outline after I've finished the book,
and it amuses me how much it kind of developed
as I was working on it. Do you keep a
Veritas Codex Bible? Do you have something to make sure
that you or is it just so cemented in your
mind that you don't even need it.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, I would have to say I don't have those
kind of records, and I kind of wish I did,
because there's times where I'm like, Okay, which college did
I say he went to? Or what color was that
guy's eyes? I don't remember, and I have to go
back and try to look it up. Maybe I'm more
of a discovery writer because I'll write for a little
bit and then I'm like, Okay, I need to know
a fact about like Brazilian jiu jitsu, and so I'll
(30:17):
have to go and do some research because I don't
know anything about martial arts. And then i'll write. I'll
get that detail worked out, and I may come back
to that a couple of times before I'm really happy
with it. But then I'll write for a little while
and then I'll come up with, Okay, what's the entrance
fee to the Library of Congress. Can you go into
this part of the library and actually touch the stuff?
You know, what statues are in this corner? And then
(30:39):
I'll have to go and look that up. So I
kind of research as I go, And so a bit
of a discovery writer, I guess in that aspect.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Hey, Betsy Kellen de writer com this year, Oh.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I wouldn't miss it for the world, and I'm hoping
to bring some of my new friends with me. So
I'm yeah, Arkansas friends here and hoping I can bring
some of them along for the ride.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Betsy, thanks for pitching in and helping out and being
on the podcast. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Oh you bet see you soon, Bike.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Just a few parting words. You've heard me if you've
been listening to the podcast talking about the writer Con Cruise,
But come on, how can I not? It's coming up
and it's the next writer Con program. After that, we'll
have the retreat and we'll have the conference on Labor
Day weekend. You can go to the website and read
about all of it. But the cruise is at the
end of May. And if you're like us here in
(31:45):
Oklahoma where it's finally starting to get warm again, you're thinking,
how could I get really cold like I was last week?
And the answer is, come on the Alaska and writer
Con Cruise. We're gonna have a lot of fun being
to get over twenty hours of writing instruction, I mean
hands on reading your work, talking to you group, small, group,
(32:09):
one on ones, whatever you want, it will be us agents.
We can find someone who can give you the help
you need to move your career to the next level.
All right, so check the website writercon dot com and
find out more about that. Until next time, keep writing
(32:30):
and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
See you next time.
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