May 5, 2023 • 34 mins
In episode 9 of Death, Grief And Other Shit We Don't Discuss, Kyle McMahon travels to Lily Dale, New York - a gated hamlet in Southwestern New York which is made up entirely of Mediums and Spiritual healers.
Kyle is given a tour of Lily Dale by Tom Cratsley, a healer and teacher who has been a resident of Lily Dale for decades. Together, they explore the healing temple, pet cemetery, Inspiration Stump and unravel the stories behind this unique town.
Additionally, Tom talks about the origins of Lily Dale, its ties to the Spiritualism movement of the United States and the incredible life of Spiritualisms founder, Andrew Jackson Davis.
Explore the unforgettable signs our loved ones can leave us, even when it seems unexplainable, on this fascinating journey into the afterlife and spiritual communication, and discover the power of believing in something beyond our physical existence.
A. Joanne McMahon Foundation
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm just a fool.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Way and change.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to death, grief and other shit we don't discuss.
I'm Kyle McMahon the afterlife. What does that mean? Is
it heaven? Is it nirvana? Is it energy? Does it
(00:36):
matter what we call it? I don't believe it does
matter what specific words in our own language that we
call it. We're all essentially talking about the same thing,
right As we've learned there is scientific evidence for something
after we pass. And as I think about Mom, I
(00:58):
know for a fact that she's here with me. I've
heard her, I felt her, and I've seen her. I
was in Costco on Christmas Eve getting some last minute
desserts for the family dinner I was having the next day,
and all of a sudden, as I'm browsing the delicious
(01:18):
looking fresh desserts in the bakery department, I just started crying,
just out of nowhere. I had a flashback to last
Christmas Eve, when I was there in that very same
Costco on that very same day, and that very same
department getting desserts to deliver to the staff at the
hospital for Mom. That was the first time I was
(01:41):
without Mom on Christmas. My entire life and so I
had just wanted to do something nice for all of
the nurses and staff that were choosing to be away
from their families so they could make sure that mine
was okay. And at that moment, it all came flooding
back to me, that sadness and dread inside of my
(02:02):
soul that I had felt in that very same place
one year ago. Today, I had to run out of
Costco and I ran to my car to compose myself.
But I also couldn't just leave. I had to get
desserts for Christmas dinner tomorrow. I looked and Michael's Art
supply store was just across the way, So I figured
(02:25):
I'd get myself together here in the car and then
go over to Michael's for a few minutes and check
out what they had, and then go back to Costco
and get what I needed to get. I finally got
myself to a place where I could at least be
seen in public without someone calling for help at the
crazy person hysterically crying at the art store, and I
went inside Michael's. I did the quickest run around a
(02:48):
store I've ever done, and believe me, I tend to
be a quick shopper but on my way out, something
caught my eye. I went over to the register to
see what it was, and it was this little piece
of paper taped right next to the register that said,
you are My Sunshine. This was the song Mom had
(03:10):
sang to me since I was born. And now, as
I'm jogging to the exit of Michael's to go continue
crying in my car, here staring me in the face
right now is a direct sign from Mom. I immediately
smiled and said out loud, you are my sunshine. Mom.
(03:30):
I love you. And now I'm realizing that I'm kind
of shouting out loud to air with tears in my
eyes and this huge smile, and I look more like
a crazy person now than I did when I came in,
and that made me laugh out loud, which only made
me look even crazier. And I decided, you know what,
(03:51):
let me get out of Michael's and go back to
the car. But there is no doubt in my mind
that that was Mom. What are the chances that, in
that moment, on that day, at that register, next to
that exit door, as I'm trying to settle myself down
from missing Mom so much, that those lyrics from a
(04:15):
song that Mom has sang since I was born, are
staring me in the face, the same lyrics we sang
to each other in our last moments together. That baffled me,
That astounded me. I went back to Costco and got
(04:36):
the desserts I needed and drove home, and I thought
the entire time, like, Wow, that's so crazy. Is it
a grand coincidence? Some could argue it could be, and
maybe that instance alone could be seen as one. But
when I got home, there was a small one foot
or so Christmas tree on my step with a card attached.
(05:01):
That's strange, I thought to myself. I didn't get any
notifications from my security cameras, so I didn't think much
of it, and I brought it in and then I
opened the card. It read, decorate me every year to
remind you that Mom's love is near. Merry Christmas. The
(05:24):
card was unsigned. I checked my security camera footage because like,
maybe I just missed the notification. There were zero people
or cars that showed up that afternoon on my property.
The security cameras were working. They caught other things that afternoon,
a squirrel and a cat. How do I explain this?
(05:50):
What possible rationale is there? To both of these events
happening simultaneously at a time when I was literally sobbing
over my Mom in my heart. I think it was
one of Mom's angels here on earth, and Mom sent
them at that moment for that purpose. I began bawling
(06:12):
in my kitchen out of happiness, astonished at what was happening.
Thank you, Mom. I love you so much. I love
you so so much. I have numerous examples of things
(06:33):
happening since Mom passed that I just can't explain rationally.
There was the dragonflies, the dragonflies that I saw so
many times when I was thinking of Mom, upset about Mom,
and a dragonfly would just fly over to me. There
was the nightly tapping on the window of my bedroom
(06:54):
that went on for months, just about the same time
every night, right when I went to bed. It even
would wake Blue up sometimes and I would check the
cameras and once again, nothing out of the ordinary was showing.
And the dreams, oh, the dreams that I have. They
(07:18):
happen one or two times a month, and it normally
involves Mom telling me something relating to my life. It's
like that's her way of communicating with me, that's her
way of telling me what she wants to tell me.
And as you can imagine, I look forward to those
dreams so so much, and with all of this happening,
(07:41):
I knew there was definitely something to all of this.
In my research for this series, I'd come across the
documentary about this town called Lilydale in New York. Lilydale
is a hamlet located in the town of Pomfret on
the east side of Casadega Lake. With a year population
of just two hundred and seventy five. This quaint little
(08:04):
lakeside town isn't just a quaint little lakeside town, however.
Every year, almost twenty five thousand people come from all
over the world to visit Lilydale, and that is because
this gated community is made up solely of mediums and
healers in the spiritualist movement. In eighteen seventy nine, Casadega
(08:28):
Lake Free Association was incorporated as a meeting place for
spiritualists and freethinkers. In nineteen oh three, the name was
changed to the City of Light, and in nineteen oh
six it was changed to Lilydale Assembly. Its purpose was
to further the philosophy and science of Spiritualism, and if
you're unfamiliar, put quite simply, Spiritualism is a school of
(08:51):
thinking that believes one's awareness persists after death, their spirit,
and that that spirit can be contacted by the living,
with an entire town made up of spiritualists, who, as
Lilydale's motto states, is a home of mediumship and spiritual healing.
Tens of thousands of people travel every year to Lilydale
(09:13):
and the hopes of getting in touch with their own sensitivity,
were even getting in touch with a loved one who
has passed on. The more I read about Lilydale, the
more I knew I had to go. I was being
drawn to it, called to it, so off I went
(09:34):
to Lilydale, New York. I was welcomed to lily Dale
by Tom Kratzley. Besides being a dynamic healer and teacher
who has worked in counseling, spiritual healing and teaching for
more than thirty years, Tom is also a bit of
a historian of Lilydale, and he graciously offered to take
(09:55):
me on a tour of this historic and revered and
special Tom gave me an incredible walking tour of some
of Lilydale's most special places. One of these special places
in the woods of Lilydale was the site where an
(10:15):
ancient tree had fallen. It's called the inspiration stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
All right. So this originally was a place where the
children would come and practice their medium shift. And eventually
what happened was the board thought, well, if this is
attracting all these people, then you've got to put this
together for the adults. So the kids were out of
it and mediums twice a day. Now in the summertime,
the mediums will come back here and do the same
(10:44):
time practice they do at the first temple. Wow, they
stand up here and we'll come give messages to the
people here. But you come back here at night with
a good group of people, and there's all kinds of
phenomena he had to waitness. Really, Yeah, you actually see
what somebody wants to come on, stand up here. If
you start to look at them, people start to shape shift.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It is a power spot for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah. I mean that's what you know. I just feel
this energy here. Well, you know, it's just yeah, I
don't know how to describe it, palpable. I guess that's incredible. Yeah, Yeah,
this place is very special. It's crazy. How Like I said,
you just feel I just feel something here.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Tom took me to the pet Cemetery with beautiful memorials
to furry friends that have passed on. He showed me
the museum, the Healing Temple, and the Fairy Village. As
we walked and drove around lily Dale among the spectacular
Victorian homes and cottages, Tom began telling me his own
journey to lily Dale. He was a student in college
(11:55):
when he took a trip to lily Dale with his classmates.
That trip made such a profound impact on him that
he returned to Lilydale on his own. From there, this
special place kept calling to him.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
In nineteen sixty eight, I came back here and I
visited the Healing Temple and I was hooked. Okay, So
then I started coming back every summer. I would spend
entire summers here just working in the healing Temple.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Oh wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Part of my training is doing healing. It was always
part of it. And then while I was in Boston,
I got hooked up with an organization and I traveled
around the country teaching metaphysical principles for creating the life
you want that kind of stuff. Oh wow, Then that went,
you know, kind of off on my own. And there
are a number of little stories in a way, and
(12:44):
I develop a counseling method which I call restructuring. Another
in the more clinical term would be contextual pattern release. Okay,
So what I do with people is, no matter what
the issue is, I get them to talk about it
and see it's impact on their lives, and then I
do a regression based on what we discover on to
the point of what the issue is, and they go
(13:07):
back to the traumatic event that got it started. Wow,
And while they were living the traumatic event, I encouraged
them to make a new series of choices and decisions
in relationship to the traumatic event. They can be maybe
one hundred choices in the middle of in one session, right,
But each time they do, they take a deep breaths.
They're putting the physiology behind it, and they let go
(13:29):
of let's say, get released my fear of my anger
at the decision I made to do this, the promise
I made to do that, et cetera, et cetera. Multi level.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Tom's work, which he calls restructuring, is based on the
foundation of psychology's contextual pattern release. His decades of study
and his psychology and counseling background have allowed him to
hone this talent. In fact, hypnotherapists, counselors, and psychologists alike
from all around the world refer clients to Tom for
(14:01):
restructure and this is why Tom is in Lilydale. His
experiences dating back to his college days as a visitor
at Lilydale pushed him directly to this career path, and
for Tom, it's not so much as a career path
but a calling. When we return, I sit down with
(14:23):
Tom to discuss the history of Lilydale, its special connection
to the Other Side, and the spiritualism movement of the
United States. Tom Cratsley is not just a healer and
(14:50):
a teacher, He's a bit of a historian of Lilydale,
New York as well. Spiritualism is a social and to
some religious movement that began in the nineteenth century and
is still alive and well today. In my opinion, the
biggest belief of spiritualism, especially one that separates it from
(15:11):
other spiritual beliefs, is the belief that one's awareness persists
even after death and may be contacted. And since my
new friend Tom is a bit of a historian of
lily Dale. Naturally, our conversation turned to lily Dale's history,
(15:31):
and ultimately Lilydale's origins began with Andrew Jackson Davis, considered
the founder of the spiritualist movement. Born in blooming Grove,
New York, in eighteen twenty six, Davis lost his own
mother at a young age.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
At age seventeen, he became interested in Mesmerism, which was
a healing modality in its day. It's not what we
think of today's hypnosis. Right in its day they would
use and was based on what Anton Mesmer called animal magnetism,
which is you know that there's there are forces within
(16:11):
the human body that if you play with them and
work with him you can restore balance. So the French
academy turned him down, but many people started practicing and
working with his methodology, and it came over to the
US and about the turn of that century, about eighteen
hundred or so, they started practicing. And so there was
(16:33):
a practitioner in his area in Poughkeepsie, and once or
twice he was putting, they worked on him, and I
guess he felt something, but that wasn't anything unusual that
happened the third time the person who was working on him,
he went into a deep trance state, and it was
discovered at this point that he could do medical clairvoyance
(16:54):
like Edgar Casey, using precise medical terminology, you know, and
also offering cures and things and not real unusual things
just the same way in case he did an right.
Some of them were probably fairly standard, but some of
them were quite unusual. Anyway, after about a year and
a half of this, they did this on a daily basis.
He was put into these trand states every day for
(17:17):
about a year and a half, and I think that
was preparing him to take these that next step to
be able to see anything everything anytime he wanted to.
But after about a year and a half of that,
as soon as the book was written, maybe three years total,
he was on his own. He could just go into
that state. And I've been chasing that the rest of
(17:39):
my life, you know, from the time I first I
was like, I want that what he had. And you
know who took to early spiritualism A lot of Quakers, Okay.
One of the things about the Quakers non hierarchical. That's
one of the things that I came to appreciate about
spiritualism non hierarchical. Everyone has their own direct access to
(18:03):
the divine and they also have an obligation to pursue
that or to to make the best of it, you know,
which I think is true too, you know. So that's
that's one of the main main features of it. They
don't believe in vicarious atonement, what is the personal responsibility
that somebody died for your sins? Gotcha, right, But they
believe in what I would call infinite grace, that it's
(18:26):
available to everybody if they put themselves in the right place,
you know, and it's also there, you know, if they
don't get around to it here and the hereafter, it's there,
you know, the opportunity. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And what does spiritualism say about death.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
It's just the beginning of another phase of existence. Yeah.
One of the things that the early and all the
metaphysicians in the early days would talk about is vibration
and frequency. That everything exists on different levels of frequency.
You know, like say there's a there is a big
octave of frequency that is the physical world. Then there's
(19:06):
another octave of frequency that's the mental world. All right,
It's not in the neurons of the brain, by the way,
you know, it just happens to be the local expression
of it. But that's why I think the medical science
is always barking up the wrong tree when they're trying
to like nail it down into the physical because we're
beyond our physical self, right, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, And there's so many things that science can't explain.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You know that it's got to be something that may
never be understood, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
That's right. And if you don't ever doing any meditation.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
I have been getting into meditation.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Excellent, excellent. So you know that when you slow down
all this mental activity, something starts to shift internally, right,
And that's what they did in the early days with
city and circles, you know, the group energy would support
all the individuals there into going into deep a relaxation
(20:01):
so that they can be open to other realms and
communication from other realms.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And is that why you think seances were so prevalent then?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, they were really really big in the
early days. And what happened was and some people would
disagree with me, but this is my particular bias on it.
Toward the latter let's say, quarter of the nineteenth century,
there got to be a real interest in physical phenomena,
what's called physical phenomenon, that is, to get things floating
(20:34):
around in the room and all that kind of stuff,
and you know, apparitions showing up. And what the problem
was that that stuff can't be You can't call upon
that to happen every single time, right, And so mediums
got into faking it because you know, they couldn't couldn't
produce it all the time. So and then of course
they got they got discovered, and so that started to
(20:56):
pull people away from it. But there was no need
for that other than to show off. It was like
it wasn't really And I do believe that the spiritual
guide started to pull it away because it wasn't delivering
the results they wanted. I believe this that all spiritual
phenomena is purpose driven. Okay, now here's the important part.
(21:20):
We don't decide the purpose. The purpose comes from a
higher realm. As long as we're open to be attuned
to the higher realm, then we'll discover that purpose along
the way, and other phenomena will happen for us. I
have an amazing story to tell you about, you know,
physical My aunt after my grandmother died, had had gone
(21:45):
into a depression, and she was depressed for about a
good salad year. And near the end of that, she's
in her bed as she customarily doesn't do therediant night,
and then she looked and she saw a light coming
from under the door, the bedroom door that was closed,
and I turned off all the lights of this, and
all of a sudden, my grandmother stepped through the door,
(22:06):
and she was looking like twenty years younger. And it
was perfectly that she stood because her last days she
was infirmed in a wheelchair. But she stepped through tribally
and she proceeded to lecture her about how she needed
to get on with her life. She had good things
to do and she was doing perfectly fine.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, And it snapped her depression, it snapped her grief
and she went on and got married, and you know
it was yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So, so what you're saying is that.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
They can help us, Oh yeah, in our they can
help us from their realm, in our realm.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yes, And you see it all the time. I see
it a lot of times in the summer here, people
would be given certain messages that somehow they and they
know they're coming from either like a spouse has passed
on or a mother, a father, grandparents, et cetera, that
kind of tune in to what they really need, you know,
(23:08):
and they give them, oh maybe just a sentence of advice,
and it changes. It changes people. That's all. You don't
need much, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
How do I, if I'm a spirit, how do I,
as a spirit affect something electrical or something?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Is it like the energy?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yes, yes, there's there's a way in which the frequencies
that they're working at become somewhat resonant with the electrical frequencies, gotcha,
you know, and resonant enough that they may not be
perfectly resonant, so they're close enough in vibration but not
perfectly resonant that they can cause disturbance.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I've I've had numerous experiences like that, and
I'm like, you know, it was a sign for me,
you know, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
It wasn't. Oh I changed the ball, But it's not
you know or whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It's interesting for yours. After my dad passed and my
mom was alive, the channel he changed the channels on
the TV.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's just like I'm here.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah, so you know, yeah. Yeah, it's a nice, nice
reinforcement if we can't hear, what is it that your
mom has done?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Oh? Well, the craziest thing was she hated that I
had a tattoo. And she wasn't against tattoos, but for
me she was. And then so I after she passed,
I got a car that she had written out to me,
got a buddy of mine who's a tattoo artist to
(24:44):
scan it, and then he transferred that to paper and
then just tattooed over it.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
So it's her exact.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Signature, okay.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And I was nervous, like what my mom really want?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know, I know she wouldn't really want me to
have this, but I I want.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Her on me at all times.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
And so I was at the gas station, might have
been that day that I got the tattoo. There's nobody around,
and I'm pumping gas and I hear Kyle and it
was my mom, And for a second I forgot that
she was gone, and so I like look around and
then I'm like, there's nobody here, because I was like, no,
my mom's getting gas or something, and you know, I
(25:24):
look around, there's nobody there, and my my car's off,
you know, the stereo is off, and I'm like, what
is going on? And then I'm like, oh wait, it
can't be Mom. You know, she just passed. So that
was really freaky. Then I get in Mike, I finished
pumping the gas, getting my car and start driving home.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
On my phone pops up.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I had posted a picture of this to Facebook my
tattoo and like, my mom was probably, you.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Know, cursing at me, blah blah blah. But I wanted
to get this and I posted the photo.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
It popped up on my phone Joanne has liked your photo,
and I was like, wait a second, and I'm like
what the hell, Like how is this? You know, I'm
like freaking out. So I'm like it's got to be
my dad, you know, on accident or whatever. So I
called my dad and I'm like, do you have Mom's phone?
And he's like no, it's upstairs. Why And I'm like,
(26:18):
so you don't have Mom's phone with you? You weren't
on mom's phone. He's like, no, I've been in meetings.
It's upstairs. What's going on? And I'm like okay. And
then I explained to it the story and is like
that's really weird. There was nobody that has her passwords or.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
You know what, unexplainable.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
But I thought it was really ironic that that is the.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
One she liked, the one for the you know, posting
the tattoo of.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Her you know what I'm saying, of all the things
she could have liked. And it happened right after I
heard her say, Kyle, you.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah? Yeah, purpose so weird and or not weird. I mean,
it's awesome. So that was like the biggest thing so
far that has happened.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Great, Yeah, that's great. Yeah, those things you don't forget, no, no.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I mean, you know, that is a very clear sign
to me that she is here with me.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I was eight years old when my grandmother died, the
same grandmother that the aunt was in depression over. And
she was laid out in her home right and I
was at the other ant's house about half a mile
down the road. They lived out in the country, and
I'm walking in the fields to get from one house
the other and my grandmother I could hear her really
(27:36):
talking in my ear, and at eight years old, I
was freaked. Yeah, So I started booking it, and I
never told anybody about it until years and years later,
and it turns out that she did the same thing
to about eight grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I can't not believe that.
I mean, it's unexplainable.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, it's about the real, real experience.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Tom gave incredible insight into the spiritualism movement and how
they see the afterlife as just another plane, just like
the one we're on now. Nearly every religion in the
world has some sort of afterlife, whether it be called heaven, Hell, Valhalla, purgatory,
(28:22):
or any other number of names for what is essentially
the same concept. Other religions believe in reincarnation, where the
soul enters a new physical body. There are also schools
of thought that believe that when we physically die, so
does our soul. We just simply cease to exist. What
(28:45):
can't be denied, however, is the experiences of tens of
millions of people around the world and throughout time that
have had some unexplainable occurrence where they believe they've come
in contact with someone on the other side. A Pere
research study done in twenty twenty one shows that seventy
(29:05):
three percent of US adults say they believe in some
sort of quote heaven, and that's no matter what religion
they subscribe to. If any and only sixty two percent
believe in some sort of hell, then just seventeen percent
say they don't believe in any sort of afterlife at all.
From the earliest societies, even before organized religion, we see
(29:30):
through their artifacts that even they believed in some sort
of afterlife that's been consistent throughout time, no matter what
area of the globe you look. In fact, today, in
that same Pere research study, seventy two percent of US
adults say it is possible to experience feeling the presence
(29:50):
of someone who has died, and forty four percent say
they have experienced the presence of someone who has died.
Why is the such an important topic for the vast
majority of the entire humankind? In my opinion, that belief
in what happens after our lives as we know them
(30:11):
end helps guide us in our decisions during that life.
If one believes in a higher power that condemns you
to an eternity of suffering, unless you live by a
certain code, you're probably more likely to follow that code.
If one believes they'll be reunited with their loved ones
who have passed on. There's comfort in knowing that we
(30:34):
have safety and love waiting for us there, and science
can tell us a lot. Our global society as we
know it today wouldn't exist without the efforts of the
scientific community. But throughout all of this time, science still
can't give us a definitive answer for what lies on
the other side of this life. Science cannot explain how
(30:58):
someone who has died on an option operating table and
been revived was able to describe in detail what was
going on on the hospital floors above them, and in
some cases, what was going on to their body while
they were clinically dead. Science cannot explain the growing documented
(31:19):
cases of after death communication around the world, and science
can't explain how these have happened throughout time. Maybe one
day we will know what happens on the other side
and why, or maybe we won't. But I can only
go by my own experiences, which can't be denied or debunked,
(31:42):
And that's why I believe in the afterlife. Next time
on death, grief and other shit we don't discuss, we
continue with the discussion on the afterlife as I remain
in Lily Dale New York to talk with Reverend Angela App,
(32:03):
a medium and teacher who was able to communicate with
loved ones who have crossed over. We discuss her experiences
as a medium, how spirits come through, and what she's
learned from talking to so many grieving people and their
loved ones on the other side. And I get my
own reading, Will my mom come through?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
He'll soon be free from me. Every try to spool,
will read.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Beneath the side.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I'll drop the cry.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
So silve Denaia.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And enter.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
My home with God. I'm going to see Rember the
she said she'd be me when I come. I'm just
(33:25):
school for Jordia.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Come to school, win Over.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Am to the school when for Jordia, I am jo
school
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Whover
I'm just a fool.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Way and change.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to death, grief and other shit we don't discuss.
I'm Kyle McMahon the afterlife. What does that mean? Is
it heaven? Is it nirvana? Is it energy? Does it
(00:36):
matter what we call it? I don't believe it does
matter what specific words in our own language that we
call it. We're all essentially talking about the same thing,
right As we've learned there is scientific evidence for something
after we pass. And as I think about Mom, I
(00:58):
know for a fact that she's here with me. I've
heard her, I felt her, and I've seen her. I
was in Costco on Christmas Eve getting some last minute
desserts for the family dinner I was having the next day,
and all of a sudden, as I'm browsing the delicious
(01:18):
looking fresh desserts in the bakery department, I just started crying,
just out of nowhere. I had a flashback to last
Christmas Eve, when I was there in that very same
Costco on that very same day, and that very same
department getting desserts to deliver to the staff at the
hospital for Mom. That was the first time I was
(01:41):
without Mom on Christmas. My entire life and so I
had just wanted to do something nice for all of
the nurses and staff that were choosing to be away
from their families so they could make sure that mine
was okay. And at that moment, it all came flooding
back to me, that sadness and dread inside of my
(02:02):
soul that I had felt in that very same place
one year ago. Today, I had to run out of
Costco and I ran to my car to compose myself.
But I also couldn't just leave. I had to get
desserts for Christmas dinner tomorrow. I looked and Michael's Art
supply store was just across the way, So I figured
(02:25):
I'd get myself together here in the car and then
go over to Michael's for a few minutes and check
out what they had, and then go back to Costco
and get what I needed to get. I finally got
myself to a place where I could at least be
seen in public without someone calling for help at the
crazy person hysterically crying at the art store, and I
went inside Michael's. I did the quickest run around a
(02:48):
store I've ever done, and believe me, I tend to
be a quick shopper but on my way out, something
caught my eye. I went over to the register to
see what it was, and it was this little piece
of paper taped right next to the register that said,
you are My Sunshine. This was the song Mom had
(03:10):
sang to me since I was born. And now, as
I'm jogging to the exit of Michael's to go continue
crying in my car, here staring me in the face
right now is a direct sign from Mom. I immediately
smiled and said out loud, you are my sunshine. Mom.
(03:30):
I love you. And now I'm realizing that I'm kind
of shouting out loud to air with tears in my
eyes and this huge smile, and I look more like
a crazy person now than I did when I came in,
and that made me laugh out loud, which only made
me look even crazier. And I decided, you know what,
(03:51):
let me get out of Michael's and go back to
the car. But there is no doubt in my mind
that that was Mom. What are the chances that, in
that moment, on that day, at that register, next to
that exit door, as I'm trying to settle myself down
from missing Mom so much, that those lyrics from a
(04:15):
song that Mom has sang since I was born, are
staring me in the face, the same lyrics we sang
to each other in our last moments together. That baffled me,
That astounded me. I went back to Costco and got
(04:36):
the desserts I needed and drove home, and I thought
the entire time, like, Wow, that's so crazy. Is it
a grand coincidence? Some could argue it could be, and
maybe that instance alone could be seen as one. But
when I got home, there was a small one foot
or so Christmas tree on my step with a card attached.
(05:01):
That's strange, I thought to myself. I didn't get any
notifications from my security cameras, so I didn't think much
of it, and I brought it in and then I
opened the card. It read, decorate me every year to
remind you that Mom's love is near. Merry Christmas. The
(05:24):
card was unsigned. I checked my security camera footage because like,
maybe I just missed the notification. There were zero people
or cars that showed up that afternoon on my property.
The security cameras were working. They caught other things that afternoon,
a squirrel and a cat. How do I explain this?
(05:50):
What possible rationale is there? To both of these events
happening simultaneously at a time when I was literally sobbing
over my Mom in my heart. I think it was
one of Mom's angels here on earth, and Mom sent
them at that moment for that purpose. I began bawling
(06:12):
in my kitchen out of happiness, astonished at what was happening.
Thank you, Mom. I love you so much. I love
you so so much. I have numerous examples of things
(06:33):
happening since Mom passed that I just can't explain rationally.
There was the dragonflies, the dragonflies that I saw so
many times when I was thinking of Mom, upset about Mom,
and a dragonfly would just fly over to me. There
was the nightly tapping on the window of my bedroom
(06:54):
that went on for months, just about the same time
every night, right when I went to bed. It even
would wake Blue up sometimes and I would check the
cameras and once again, nothing out of the ordinary was showing.
And the dreams, oh, the dreams that I have. They
(07:18):
happen one or two times a month, and it normally
involves Mom telling me something relating to my life. It's
like that's her way of communicating with me, that's her
way of telling me what she wants to tell me.
And as you can imagine, I look forward to those
dreams so so much, and with all of this happening,
(07:41):
I knew there was definitely something to all of this.
In my research for this series, I'd come across the
documentary about this town called Lilydale in New York. Lilydale
is a hamlet located in the town of Pomfret on
the east side of Casadega Lake. With a year population
of just two hundred and seventy five. This quaint little
(08:04):
lakeside town isn't just a quaint little lakeside town, however.
Every year, almost twenty five thousand people come from all
over the world to visit Lilydale, and that is because
this gated community is made up solely of mediums and
healers in the spiritualist movement. In eighteen seventy nine, Casadega
(08:28):
Lake Free Association was incorporated as a meeting place for
spiritualists and freethinkers. In nineteen oh three, the name was
changed to the City of Light, and in nineteen oh
six it was changed to Lilydale Assembly. Its purpose was
to further the philosophy and science of Spiritualism, and if
you're unfamiliar, put quite simply, Spiritualism is a school of
(08:51):
thinking that believes one's awareness persists after death, their spirit,
and that that spirit can be contacted by the living,
with an entire town made up of spiritualists, who, as
Lilydale's motto states, is a home of mediumship and spiritual healing.
Tens of thousands of people travel every year to Lilydale
(09:13):
and the hopes of getting in touch with their own sensitivity,
were even getting in touch with a loved one who
has passed on. The more I read about Lilydale, the
more I knew I had to go. I was being
drawn to it, called to it, so off I went
(09:34):
to Lilydale, New York. I was welcomed to lily Dale
by Tom Kratzley. Besides being a dynamic healer and teacher
who has worked in counseling, spiritual healing and teaching for
more than thirty years, Tom is also a bit of
a historian of Lilydale, and he graciously offered to take
(09:55):
me on a tour of this historic and revered and
special Tom gave me an incredible walking tour of some
of Lilydale's most special places. One of these special places
in the woods of Lilydale was the site where an
(10:15):
ancient tree had fallen. It's called the inspiration stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
All right. So this originally was a place where the
children would come and practice their medium shift. And eventually
what happened was the board thought, well, if this is
attracting all these people, then you've got to put this
together for the adults. So the kids were out of
it and mediums twice a day. Now in the summertime,
the mediums will come back here and do the same
(10:44):
time practice they do at the first temple. Wow, they
stand up here and we'll come give messages to the
people here. But you come back here at night with
a good group of people, and there's all kinds of
phenomena he had to waitness. Really, Yeah, you actually see
what somebody wants to come on, stand up here. If
you start to look at them, people start to shape shift.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It is a power spot for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah. I mean that's what you know. I just feel
this energy here. Well, you know, it's just yeah, I
don't know how to describe it, palpable. I guess that's incredible. Yeah, Yeah,
this place is very special. It's crazy. How Like I said,
you just feel I just feel something here.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Tom took me to the pet Cemetery with beautiful memorials
to furry friends that have passed on. He showed me
the museum, the Healing Temple, and the Fairy Village. As
we walked and drove around lily Dale among the spectacular
Victorian homes and cottages, Tom began telling me his own
journey to lily Dale. He was a student in college
(11:55):
when he took a trip to lily Dale with his classmates.
That trip made such a profound impact on him that
he returned to Lilydale on his own. From there, this
special place kept calling to him.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
In nineteen sixty eight, I came back here and I
visited the Healing Temple and I was hooked. Okay, So
then I started coming back every summer. I would spend
entire summers here just working in the healing Temple.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Oh wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Part of my training is doing healing. It was always
part of it. And then while I was in Boston,
I got hooked up with an organization and I traveled
around the country teaching metaphysical principles for creating the life
you want that kind of stuff. Oh wow, Then that went,
you know, kind of off on my own. And there
are a number of little stories in a way, and
(12:44):
I develop a counseling method which I call restructuring. Another
in the more clinical term would be contextual pattern release. Okay,
So what I do with people is, no matter what
the issue is, I get them to talk about it
and see it's impact on their lives, and then I
do a regression based on what we discover on to
the point of what the issue is, and they go
(13:07):
back to the traumatic event that got it started. Wow,
And while they were living the traumatic event, I encouraged
them to make a new series of choices and decisions
in relationship to the traumatic event. They can be maybe
one hundred choices in the middle of in one session, right,
But each time they do, they take a deep breaths.
They're putting the physiology behind it, and they let go
(13:29):
of let's say, get released my fear of my anger
at the decision I made to do this, the promise
I made to do that, et cetera, et cetera. Multi level.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Tom's work, which he calls restructuring, is based on the
foundation of psychology's contextual pattern release. His decades of study
and his psychology and counseling background have allowed him to
hone this talent. In fact, hypnotherapists, counselors, and psychologists alike
from all around the world refer clients to Tom for
(14:01):
restructure and this is why Tom is in Lilydale. His
experiences dating back to his college days as a visitor
at Lilydale pushed him directly to this career path, and
for Tom, it's not so much as a career path
but a calling. When we return, I sit down with
(14:23):
Tom to discuss the history of Lilydale, its special connection
to the Other Side, and the spiritualism movement of the
United States. Tom Cratsley is not just a healer and
(14:50):
a teacher, He's a bit of a historian of Lilydale,
New York as well. Spiritualism is a social and to
some religious movement that began in the nineteenth century and
is still alive and well today. In my opinion, the
biggest belief of spiritualism, especially one that separates it from
(15:11):
other spiritual beliefs, is the belief that one's awareness persists
even after death and may be contacted. And since my
new friend Tom is a bit of a historian of
lily Dale. Naturally, our conversation turned to lily Dale's history,
(15:31):
and ultimately Lilydale's origins began with Andrew Jackson Davis, considered
the founder of the spiritualist movement. Born in blooming Grove,
New York, in eighteen twenty six, Davis lost his own
mother at a young age.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
At age seventeen, he became interested in Mesmerism, which was
a healing modality in its day. It's not what we
think of today's hypnosis. Right in its day they would
use and was based on what Anton Mesmer called animal magnetism,
which is you know that there's there are forces within
(16:11):
the human body that if you play with them and
work with him you can restore balance. So the French
academy turned him down, but many people started practicing and
working with his methodology, and it came over to the
US and about the turn of that century, about eighteen
hundred or so, they started practicing. And so there was
(16:33):
a practitioner in his area in Poughkeepsie, and once or
twice he was putting, they worked on him, and I
guess he felt something, but that wasn't anything unusual that
happened the third time the person who was working on him,
he went into a deep trance state, and it was
discovered at this point that he could do medical clairvoyance
(16:54):
like Edgar Casey, using precise medical terminology, you know, and
also offering cures and things and not real unusual things
just the same way in case he did an right.
Some of them were probably fairly standard, but some of
them were quite unusual. Anyway, after about a year and
a half of this, they did this on a daily basis.
He was put into these trand states every day for
(17:17):
about a year and a half, and I think that
was preparing him to take these that next step to
be able to see anything everything anytime he wanted to.
But after about a year and a half of that,
as soon as the book was written, maybe three years total,
he was on his own. He could just go into
that state. And I've been chasing that the rest of
(17:39):
my life, you know, from the time I first I
was like, I want that what he had. And you
know who took to early spiritualism A lot of Quakers, Okay.
One of the things about the Quakers non hierarchical. That's
one of the things that I came to appreciate about
spiritualism non hierarchical. Everyone has their own direct access to
(18:03):
the divine and they also have an obligation to pursue
that or to to make the best of it, you know,
which I think is true too, you know. So that's
that's one of the main main features of it. They
don't believe in vicarious atonement, what is the personal responsibility
that somebody died for your sins? Gotcha, right, But they
believe in what I would call infinite grace, that it's
(18:26):
available to everybody if they put themselves in the right place,
you know, and it's also there, you know, if they
don't get around to it here and the hereafter, it's there,
you know, the opportunity. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And what does spiritualism say about death.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
It's just the beginning of another phase of existence. Yeah.
One of the things that the early and all the
metaphysicians in the early days would talk about is vibration
and frequency. That everything exists on different levels of frequency.
You know, like say there's a there is a big
octave of frequency that is the physical world. Then there's
(19:06):
another octave of frequency that's the mental world. All right,
It's not in the neurons of the brain, by the way,
you know, it just happens to be the local expression
of it. But that's why I think the medical science
is always barking up the wrong tree when they're trying
to like nail it down into the physical because we're
beyond our physical self, right, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, And there's so many things that science can't explain.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You know that it's got to be something that may
never be understood, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
That's right. And if you don't ever doing any meditation.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
I have been getting into meditation.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Excellent, excellent. So you know that when you slow down
all this mental activity, something starts to shift internally, right,
And that's what they did in the early days with
city and circles, you know, the group energy would support
all the individuals there into going into deep a relaxation
(20:01):
so that they can be open to other realms and
communication from other realms.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And is that why you think seances were so prevalent then?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, they were really really big in the
early days. And what happened was and some people would
disagree with me, but this is my particular bias on it.
Toward the latter let's say, quarter of the nineteenth century,
there got to be a real interest in physical phenomena,
what's called physical phenomenon, that is, to get things floating
(20:34):
around in the room and all that kind of stuff,
and you know, apparitions showing up. And what the problem
was that that stuff can't be You can't call upon
that to happen every single time, right, And so mediums
got into faking it because you know, they couldn't couldn't
produce it all the time. So and then of course
they got they got discovered, and so that started to
(20:56):
pull people away from it. But there was no need
for that other than to show off. It was like
it wasn't really And I do believe that the spiritual
guide started to pull it away because it wasn't delivering
the results they wanted. I believe this that all spiritual
phenomena is purpose driven. Okay, now here's the important part.
(21:20):
We don't decide the purpose. The purpose comes from a
higher realm. As long as we're open to be attuned
to the higher realm, then we'll discover that purpose along
the way, and other phenomena will happen for us. I
have an amazing story to tell you about, you know,
physical My aunt after my grandmother died, had had gone
(21:45):
into a depression, and she was depressed for about a
good salad year. And near the end of that, she's
in her bed as she customarily doesn't do therediant night,
and then she looked and she saw a light coming
from under the door, the bedroom door that was closed,
and I turned off all the lights of this, and
all of a sudden, my grandmother stepped through the door,
(22:06):
and she was looking like twenty years younger. And it
was perfectly that she stood because her last days she
was infirmed in a wheelchair. But she stepped through tribally
and she proceeded to lecture her about how she needed
to get on with her life. She had good things
to do and she was doing perfectly fine.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, And it snapped her depression, it snapped her grief
and she went on and got married, and you know
it was yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So, so what you're saying is that.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
They can help us, Oh yeah, in our they can
help us from their realm, in our realm.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yes, And you see it all the time. I see
it a lot of times in the summer here, people
would be given certain messages that somehow they and they
know they're coming from either like a spouse has passed
on or a mother, a father, grandparents, et cetera, that
kind of tune in to what they really need, you know,
(23:08):
and they give them, oh maybe just a sentence of advice,
and it changes. It changes people. That's all. You don't
need much, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
How do I, if I'm a spirit, how do I,
as a spirit affect something electrical or something?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Is it like the energy?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yes, yes, there's there's a way in which the frequencies
that they're working at become somewhat resonant with the electrical frequencies, gotcha,
you know, and resonant enough that they may not be
perfectly resonant, so they're close enough in vibration but not
perfectly resonant that they can cause disturbance.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I've I've had numerous experiences like that, and
I'm like, you know, it was a sign for me,
you know, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
It wasn't. Oh I changed the ball, But it's not
you know or whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It's interesting for yours. After my dad passed and my
mom was alive, the channel he changed the channels on
the TV.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's just like I'm here.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah, so you know, yeah. Yeah, it's a nice, nice
reinforcement if we can't hear, what is it that your
mom has done?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Oh? Well, the craziest thing was she hated that I
had a tattoo. And she wasn't against tattoos, but for
me she was. And then so I after she passed,
I got a car that she had written out to me,
got a buddy of mine who's a tattoo artist to
(24:44):
scan it, and then he transferred that to paper and
then just tattooed over it.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
So it's her exact.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Signature, okay.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And I was nervous, like what my mom really want?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know, I know she wouldn't really want me to
have this, but I I want.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Her on me at all times.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
And so I was at the gas station, might have
been that day that I got the tattoo. There's nobody around,
and I'm pumping gas and I hear Kyle and it
was my mom, And for a second I forgot that
she was gone, and so I like look around and
then I'm like, there's nobody here, because I was like, no,
my mom's getting gas or something, and you know, I
(25:24):
look around, there's nobody there, and my my car's off,
you know, the stereo is off, and I'm like, what
is going on? And then I'm like, oh wait, it
can't be Mom. You know, she just passed. So that
was really freaky. Then I get in Mike, I finished
pumping the gas, getting my car and start driving home.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
On my phone pops up.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I had posted a picture of this to Facebook my
tattoo and like, my mom was probably, you.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Know, cursing at me, blah blah blah. But I wanted
to get this and I posted the photo.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
It popped up on my phone Joanne has liked your photo,
and I was like, wait a second, and I'm like
what the hell, Like how is this? You know, I'm
like freaking out. So I'm like it's got to be
my dad, you know, on accident or whatever. So I
called my dad and I'm like, do you have Mom's phone?
And he's like no, it's upstairs. Why And I'm like,
(26:18):
so you don't have Mom's phone with you? You weren't
on mom's phone. He's like, no, I've been in meetings.
It's upstairs. What's going on? And I'm like okay. And
then I explained to it the story and is like
that's really weird. There was nobody that has her passwords or.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
You know what, unexplainable.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
But I thought it was really ironic that that is the.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
One she liked, the one for the you know, posting
the tattoo of.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Her you know what I'm saying, of all the things
she could have liked. And it happened right after I
heard her say, Kyle, you.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah? Yeah, purpose so weird and or not weird. I mean,
it's awesome. So that was like the biggest thing so
far that has happened.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Great, Yeah, that's great. Yeah, those things you don't forget, no, no.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I mean, you know, that is a very clear sign
to me that she is here with me.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I was eight years old when my grandmother died, the
same grandmother that the aunt was in depression over. And
she was laid out in her home right and I
was at the other ant's house about half a mile
down the road. They lived out in the country, and
I'm walking in the fields to get from one house
the other and my grandmother I could hear her really
(27:36):
talking in my ear, and at eight years old, I
was freaked. Yeah, So I started booking it, and I
never told anybody about it until years and years later,
and it turns out that she did the same thing
to about eight grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I can't not believe that.
I mean, it's unexplainable.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, it's about the real, real experience.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Tom gave incredible insight into the spiritualism movement and how
they see the afterlife as just another plane, just like
the one we're on now. Nearly every religion in the
world has some sort of afterlife, whether it be called heaven, Hell, Valhalla, purgatory,
(28:22):
or any other number of names for what is essentially
the same concept. Other religions believe in reincarnation, where the
soul enters a new physical body. There are also schools
of thought that believe that when we physically die, so
does our soul. We just simply cease to exist. What
(28:45):
can't be denied, however, is the experiences of tens of
millions of people around the world and throughout time that
have had some unexplainable occurrence where they believe they've come
in contact with someone on the other side. A Pere
research study done in twenty twenty one shows that seventy
(29:05):
three percent of US adults say they believe in some
sort of quote heaven, and that's no matter what religion
they subscribe to. If any and only sixty two percent
believe in some sort of hell, then just seventeen percent
say they don't believe in any sort of afterlife at all.
From the earliest societies, even before organized religion, we see
(29:30):
through their artifacts that even they believed in some sort
of afterlife that's been consistent throughout time, no matter what
area of the globe you look. In fact, today, in
that same Pere research study, seventy two percent of US
adults say it is possible to experience feeling the presence
(29:50):
of someone who has died, and forty four percent say
they have experienced the presence of someone who has died.
Why is the such an important topic for the vast
majority of the entire humankind? In my opinion, that belief
in what happens after our lives as we know them
(30:11):
end helps guide us in our decisions during that life.
If one believes in a higher power that condemns you
to an eternity of suffering, unless you live by a
certain code, you're probably more likely to follow that code.
If one believes they'll be reunited with their loved ones
who have passed on. There's comfort in knowing that we
(30:34):
have safety and love waiting for us there, and science
can tell us a lot. Our global society as we
know it today wouldn't exist without the efforts of the
scientific community. But throughout all of this time, science still
can't give us a definitive answer for what lies on
the other side of this life. Science cannot explain how
(30:58):
someone who has died on an option operating table and
been revived was able to describe in detail what was
going on on the hospital floors above them, and in
some cases, what was going on to their body while
they were clinically dead. Science cannot explain the growing documented
(31:19):
cases of after death communication around the world, and science
can't explain how these have happened throughout time. Maybe one
day we will know what happens on the other side
and why, or maybe we won't. But I can only
go by my own experiences, which can't be denied or debunked,
(31:42):
And that's why I believe in the afterlife. Next time
on death, grief and other shit we don't discuss, we
continue with the discussion on the afterlife as I remain
in Lily Dale New York to talk with Reverend Angela App,
(32:03):
a medium and teacher who was able to communicate with
loved ones who have crossed over. We discuss her experiences
as a medium, how spirits come through, and what she's
learned from talking to so many grieving people and their
loved ones on the other side. And I get my
own reading, Will my mom come through?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
He'll soon be free from me. Every try to spool,
will read.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Beneath the side.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I'll drop the cry.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
So silve Denaia.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And enter.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
My home with God. I'm going to see Rember the
she said she'd be me when I come. I'm just
(33:25):
school for Jordia.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Come to school, win Over.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Am to the school when for Jordia, I am jo
school
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Whover
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