August 1, 2013 • 37 mins
Sure, Lincoln cars are luxury American automobiles, but where did they come from? Join Scott and Ben as they dive into the history - and future - of the Lincoln Motor Company in the second part of this series.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car Stuff from house stuff Works dot Com. Hi, welcome
to car Stuff on the Scott Benjamin, and I'm Ben Bullet.
Hey Ben. We've got part two of our exciting Lincoln
Motor Company episode coming up here, so I think we
(00:23):
better do a little bit of recap maybe at the
head of this way. Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's
do uh weick recaps, start at the beginning with our
way through the middle, and then I'm wrap it up
with the end. Right, Yeah, that's good. That's maybe how
we'll do it. So we've got a we've we've already
gone through what about two I think, yes, yeah, all
the way through the formation of the Lincoln brand, all
(00:43):
the way up to two, and we've covered a lot
of ground so far. And bear with me here because
I'm gonna go through a couple of bullet points of
what we've covered in part one and then we'll be
right on to part two. And even if you listen
prior to that, you know, to episode one, stay tuned
here because there's a couple of things in here that
I just maybe we glossed over and we'll hit him again,
(01:04):
right here so real quick, Um, remember we have to
go all the way back to Henry Ford. So Henry Ford,
he had two companies before before the Ford Motor Company,
so that the Ford Motor Company was actually his third
automobile company. He had the Detroit Automobile Company from one,
the Henry Ford Company from nineteen o one nineteen o two,
(01:26):
and then in nineteen o two Henry the Land was
brought in as a consultant to Henry Ford h for
the Henry Ford Company, you know, Henry's second company. And
that's when Ford split off. I was forced out of
the company, didn't you know, had bad blood there with
Henry Land, and UM formed the Ford Motor Company. So
(01:47):
Um the Land reorganized a company, and then of course
he called it, as we remember, the Cadillac Automobile Company,
which infamously still exists today as in the fine motor
company that it is. And of course they competed with
Ford as well with the Lincoln brand eventually, as we'll
find out, all right, So the Land then sold Cadillac
(02:07):
to GM in nineteen o nine, just seven years later. Um,
and let's see the company that well, we mentioned that
they've they've fiercely competed with Lincoln later on, but um,
he stayed with the Cadillac Motor Company until nineteen seventeen,
so the Land kind of hung on for another that
was at eight years, I guess. And in nineteen seventeen,
(02:29):
after he left Cadillac, he started the Lincoln Motor Company, right,
that's right. And so he founds this this Lincoln Motor
Company in nineteen seventeen with his son, Wilfrid Land, and
the two of them initially started building, um or assembling
I should say, liberty aircraft engines for World War One aircraft.
(02:51):
And then the war ended in nineteen eighteen. Um, you
know on these World War One government contracts is how
they're kind of existing at this point. Ye, And so
now they have to build cars. Yeah, and that's what
they initially wanted to do, right, So they start building cars.
They only build just about one hundred and fifty cars
as a standalone brand is Lincoln alone with no Ford involvement.
Oh the L series and yeah, that's right, the L
(03:13):
series cars. And um, you know, they came into financial
trouble with the Lincoln brand in so just right out
of the gate financial trouble, Ford bought Lincoln in Um
at the urging of uh well then Ford president ethel Ford, Yes,
who people might recognize as the son of Henry Ford.
(03:35):
Now given their in nitty that these two men had
their animosity between the two Henry's Lalond and Ford. Uh
We I think towards the end of the first part
of the show we were talking about how it must
have felt to be Henry Ford walking in to buy
(03:55):
that company. I think we were speculating and he was
rubbing his hands together at the windows still you know,
and yes, yes, yeah, Monty burns very very excited about
the purchase of h of this Lincoln brand because Um, personally, again,
that's a that's a big victory for Ford. I'm sure
that he held on to a lot of that. There's
probably a grudge there. I would assume, just knowing Ford
(04:17):
as the character, that he was right right And we
know this is this dovetails into some of the stuff
that we're going to talk about today, because we do
know that regardless of whatever personal problems these two men
may have had, that the Ford Motor Company's purchase of
Lincoln really saved the company because just one year later
(04:39):
Scott nineteen three, uh their sales rose by sure. Yeah,
but however, the lands were out. They were already out
by late night. I think they're up by ninety two.
So they were not asked to stay on like they
were with the Cadillac Motor Company. They didn't. They didn't
hang on as you know, as members of the board
(04:59):
or anything like that. For just out right said, you
know what, here's your money, you're on your way, and
that's it. And so there was exactly there's there's the door,
you know what, to not let it do on your way,
I mean, but he learned his lesson about keeping that
guy on board anyway. Yeah, that's true. That's true. So okay,
so here we are, we'reo. And I just want to
(05:19):
note that Lincoln operated kind of as a separate unit
until about until about ninety so late. I mean, there's
like eighteen years here where the Lincoln brand was operating
completely separate from Ford Motor Company, yet under the parent
you know, they're operating of the parent company Afford. However,
there just wasn't really a whole lot of involvement going
on there. But edzel Ford, who was the president of
(05:42):
Ford Motor Company, not the CEO. The CEO was still
Mr Henry Ford, and he held onto that like that
ultimate power, I guess at that point. So, um, I'm
sure that you know, there's some urging from edgel to
purchase the Lincoln brand because he there's there's some unusual
things about Edzel I want to talk about in just
a second, but um, yeah, I mean we we've mentioned
(06:05):
that they were sold for a pretty hepty sum. Right, Yeah,
they were. They were pretty expensive because um, these let's see,
the vehicles built by these guys would go for as
much as seven grand. And that's in the twenties. Yeah,
that's right. These were what they called fine automobiles. They
were luxury automobiles. Uh. They were separate from what Ford
(06:25):
had decided to build with the Model T, the Model A. Yeah,
so you know he had he built kind of like these,
um these cars that were good for the everyman. You
know that there they were mass produced, they were they
were widely available, um, used for many many different purposes.
These these cars that the Lincoln brand focused on were
more custom coachures. Yeah, more of a more of a
(06:48):
higher end thing. Now, when ed sell In stopped me,
if I'm going past some stuff we need to hit, um,
ed Sell said, let's make a couple of different designs.
Let's diversify our high end portfolio a bit. Yeah, and
there's a good reason for that, because ed Sell, I'm like,
(07:08):
you know, Henry he appreciated kind of the beauty of
the cars as well as like their function, because I
you know, I mentioned that Henry is more into function
over over form, and uh, Edel he also appreciated the
way that the cars looked, the way that they felt
when you sat on them, the way that they appeared
on the street when they were parked. Um, he was
more of a he had more of a finer touch.
I guess with these type of things, I don't know
(07:29):
how to a better eye for design. I suppose maybe
it's the best action of the aesthetic. Yeah, exactly. And
you'll see a lot of styling changes in the in
the nineteen twenties where the late ninety twenties where you
know Edzel had a lot to do with that, where um,
you know he picked the leaping greyhound hood ornament and um,
I don't know, just a lot of the the the
(07:52):
the smooth, sleek elements of the Lincoln he had like
a Phaeton design. They had a limousine, US seven passenger
sedans very nice, and even a two passenger roadsters. So
there were quite a few options. Yeah, exactly. And before
he passed away, and I do want to talk about
l in just a moment before Edsel passed away, Um,
(08:13):
he commissioned coach builders from all over the United States
to build special luxury bodies for this Lincoln brand. So
you know, you're you're looking at a car that at
the time, you gotta remember it's competition. At the time,
Lincoln was competing with with Duisenberg. They're competing with Piercer, Yeah,
Pierce Arrow, Oh yeah, Packard, you're one of your favorites, Mormon, Cadillac,
(08:33):
you know they were, of course Cadillac because we just
mentioned um so Peerless was another one there. There are
these really really high end what we'll call fine automobiles
at the time that we're that were being uh produced
by other companies that Lincoln was now in the I
don't know, in the in the ring with. Yeah, they
were in the same sphere. They're in the same market.
And when I love that you pointed out these uh
(08:54):
coach builders that he contracted with, because some of them
might be familiar to people, um, especially le Baron. It
will be familiar to a lot of people. That's the name.
We're still here today even. Yeah, and maybe we should
do a podcast on that. But Scott, before we go
any further, you guy to tell me about all right,
So Edel and I don't have a whole lot of
(09:15):
information about him, but you know it because that's another
podcast in itself right there. It's little Ford and itself. Yeah,
all these spinoffs we could do, right, but you know
that Zel he took control of the brand of the
Lincoln brand almost immediately. Now he was the president of
Ford Motor Company. I mentioned that that Henry was the
CEO of Ford Motor Company and um, it's kind of
(09:38):
an interesting dynamic that took place there. Now. I guess
I'll just tell you right now that that's all um.
He passed away in nineteen forty three, unexpectedly. He's only
forty nine years old. Died before Henry Ford the first did. Um.
It was kind of like I think it was a
stomach cancer surgery that he had gone through and then
he died of some kind of bacterial disease was caused
(09:58):
by they think on scaralized milk or possibly meet from
infect with animals. That sounds so gross, but um, you know,
it's kind of prior to the day of you know,
really quite understanding exactly how every thing worked, you know,
as far as bacteria growth and all that. So there's
it seems to me that I remember there's some kind
of odd story about Henry Ford and unpasteurized milk, and
(10:19):
you know that the his beliefs and all this, it's
there's some kind of tie in there. But yeah, yeah,
I'm gonna have to really investigate that just to learn
a little bit more. But um, now, remember I mentioned
that that Henry was the CEO of Ford Motor Company.
This may surprise some of our listeners. Henry Ford was
(10:40):
not the first CEO of Ford Motor Company. And yeah,
I don't know if you do that or not. I
mean some people may, some people may not. Who was
the first CEO of Ford Motor There was a guy
named John S. Gray who was a he was a
candy maker, businessman, banker, original investor in the Ford Motor
Company and he was he was the money, that's right,
(11:00):
and Ford trusted him as CEO for the first three
years of the company. So from nineteen oh three to
nineteen o six until he passed away. John S. Gray
was the CEO of Ford Motor Company. Then Henry Ford
took over UM in nineteen o six and held the
CEO position all the way until nineteen and that's just
(11:21):
two years prior to Henry's death in nineteen forty seven.
As far as presidents go, UM now President Ford Motor Company,
we'll see John John Gray who was also the president.
I guess um he CEO and president UM again nineteen
o three to nineteen o six, Henry Ford from nineteen
o six to nineteen nineteen, and that's when Edsel took
(11:41):
over in nineteen nineteen until I mentioned his death in
nineteen forty three, UM in office and then Henry took
over for it came back into the office for just
another two years from forty three to forty five, and
then of course he passed away in nineteen forty seven,
and then it went on to UH. I think it
was Henry Ford the second and he held a position
until something like nineteen six. So you know it's and
(12:04):
and even now it's still in the UH, you know,
the run by for they're still in the company within
the corporation. So there's a long, long history of presidents
and CEOs that come from the Ford family, obviously, but
interesting that he was not the first CEO. Yeah, that
is a little known fact here. I know I had
known that he was at the first CEO, but I
(12:25):
did not know the details about Mr Gray. Who would
have known? It would be a candy maker, who would
have known? I guess candy is U is a good
business to get into, big business, lots of money to
be made there. Yeah, a lot of people have the
sweet tooth and uh, would we go back to Lincoln
and let's segway this because you know one thing about
any kind of market, whether it's candy or cars, you
(12:46):
have to know what your customers want and you have
to specialize in this. And Lincoln early on UM after
the purchase with Ford Motor Company. I think that's one
of the reasons that their sales went up so much
because ed Cell and the Lincoln Ram broke some of
the typical rules or rather divisions between the luxury car
(13:07):
market and the car for everybody car market. UM. For example,
we talked about how they worked with specific coach builders. UM.
They also had the idea of these add on customizations
that you could buy right, so you could get you
can get varnished wood wheels for fifteen dollars. You could
get a new a nice nickel plated radiator shell. You know.
(13:32):
You could add these things on instead of um those
coming bespoke. So it was like predetermined customization options, so
you could really make it your own, I guess is
what they're saying, in a slightly more affordable way, perhaps
than a Duisenberg are certainly, you know, um a packard,
(13:54):
which I'm going to get one one day, I know
you will. I'm gonna let it go with this podcast,
but I just that to be on the record. Also,
they built what we're called police flyers. Remember those? No,
I don't what's you know what? You've got probably a
lot more information about about some of the models and
specifics and idea because I'm kind of running out of
the history stuff here. I do want to get to
the to the modern age. But tell me please about
(14:16):
the police flyers, because that's that's cool. Well, they were
for police departments, and this is in the twenties, and
they had some pretty I don't know if Nolan's gonna
let me curse on on air, so I'll say kick butt, uh, customizations,
the kind of things you would be familiar with modern
law enforcement vehicles, bulletproof windows, spotlights on the ends of
(14:38):
the windshield in the in the nineteen twenties, Well, they're
called bulletproof finger quotes because they were you know, almost
an inch thick. Oh, that's very thick glass. So that's
that's I think there their attempt to make a bulletproof um.
And then in ninety six we go to a vehicle
that a lot of people will probably we remember are
(15:01):
familiar with, the Lincoln Zephyr. Yep, that's a big, giant
hood vehicle, right, I mean, that's one of the classic
Lincoln designs. I guess what what's uh, what's maybe the
standout features on that for you? I mean, I mean,
do you have one? Do you think it's it's it's
streamlined grill, the I mean the long, long, stretched out hood.
I mean, are these are these the car has been
(15:22):
that they show next to trains and things like that.
That one to the length, Yeah, well, the length and
the and the the streamlining. You know how they had
the trains that seem to mimic the designs of the cars.
That's a good point it seems to me like I've
seen a Zephyr park next to a train that maybe
is called the Zephyr or something. We talked about some
of this little bit in our Deco Car podcast, Yeah,
in our art Deco Car podcast. So it's a bit
(15:44):
of that in the Zephyr design, right. Yeah, And the
Zephyr had a Monster V twelve engine. Uh, it was
styling studio that Edselford began. They created the Zephyr, and
the Zephyr leads to um, this sort of the progenitor
of a bunch of other Lincoln models, so that there's
a smaller Lincoln Zephyr which eventually becomes the first Continental
(16:10):
And that's a that was supposed to be a one off,
just creative for Edsel really yeah. Interesting, and then um,
it was so successful. The smaller Zephyr was so successful
in nineteen thirty six that it lasted until the end
of ninety UM, and then they discontinued the Lincolns twelve,
(16:33):
but by all Lincoln's, all Lincoln's manufactured were based on
the Zephyr. Very interesting. Yeah, they the the big Lincoln
V twelve. I'm sure that's there's a coveted piece by collectors.
Oh can you imagine. Yeah, just to just to be
able to get in there and uh, I don't want
to say tinker with the engine, but just to watch
it work and just as fascinating to see it in operation.
(16:55):
But yeah, that that that Zephyr hood that I mentioned,
that long, long hood, that's what it covers. And man,
if you read a car show and you see a Zephyr,
just take a peek under the hood and see what
you see there. Because of E twelve, that's pretty impressive. Yeah,
and the Zephyr is in the Lincoln story. Uh, the
Zephyr is you know, kind of a deep cut. I
guess the l series would be the first teeth cut.
(17:15):
But interesting thing about the Lincoln Continental which the Zephyr inspired. Uh,
Frank Lloyd Wright called it the most beautiful car in
the world. That's something I would come from a notable
designer like that. Um, you know, I kind of like
to skip ahead if that's possible. I mean, I know,
there's this whole Continental division that happened. We could get
lost in the rabbit hole. The Unibody era that that
(17:36):
I want to mention something out of the Unibody era
from the in the late fifties, I think it was.
And um, now these are some of the longest cars
that Ford built ever, I mean, the longest production vehicles ever. Um.
And they've got to seek at this extremely long wheelbase,
huge huge cars. UM. The first Lincoln town Car which
(17:58):
was available. And this sounds like a like a Ford joke.
Almost only in black and and I know that's funny
because you know we've heard that before that you know,
they said that about the Model T, right, they could
have any color they want as long as it's black. Yeah,
which we found out is not necessarily true. It's in fact,
they had quite a few colors that you could choose from.
(18:18):
It's just black happened to be the fastest drownd, the
most popular option, you know, all that that was the
most efficient. And and of course Henry loved the black
Ford Model TS because you know, that made sense to him,
because it was it was a good economic decision for
him his company to create a lot of black forward
Model T s. UM. But again, only in black was
how you could get the first Lincoln town Car. And
(18:39):
then if you skip a little bit further, head into
the continental era. UM. Now there's a couple of reasons
that these are these are important. They've got this well,
they say it's conservative styling. Um a lot smaller in design.
There's a full fifteen inches shorter than the nineteen sixty Lincolns,
which is that's that's a dramatic drop in size. Really, However,
(19:00):
if you look at it the ninet sixty nine Lincoln Continental,
it's still gonna look like a massive there's still huge.
And I think it's the sixties, right Scott where the
doors opened from the center exactly, And that's the rear
suicide doors. And that's really what I was trying to
get at at this point. Um. And and that's probably
the last kind of historical Oh wait, I've got one
more vehicle I when I talked about. But the suicide
(19:22):
doors on the on the Lincoln continentals are just so cool.
I watched I watched a bunch of Ford promotional videos
just before we came in here, some of the stylinge
stuff from the nineteen sixties, and you know, this really
interesting like where they're doing the claim modeling and all that,
and it's leading up to what I'm talking about next.
But um, they were showing the operation of some of
the suicide doors, and you know when they open it
(19:44):
up and there's just there's nothing there. It's it's wide open.
You see the two bench seats and in front of
you very very cool cars. So check out the suicide
doors on those h on those early continentals. They're really interesting.
Oh and also we should mention the Lincoln Town Own
Car introduced as its own line in the eighties and
skip away ahead. Yeah, is that okay? Well tell you
(20:06):
what I know. You want to jump up to the
eighties school, let's do that, because I do want to
get to the modern ones. But I've got remember I
mentioned one more car I wanted to talk about. Oh yes,
and I think I think you guys know that. You know,
I'm a huge fan of the future, right the nineteen
concept car, dream car, whatever you wanna call it. I
didn't know this, but I guess the Ed Sullivan Show
featured the Futura one year and in fifty five they
(20:29):
featured it. They he said, they revealed it. Now. I
watched the clip from nineteen fifty six when they're talking
about the fifty six Lincoln designs and and they showed
the future from the year prior. You know, a video
clip film clip brother from the year prior, and he
introduces a woman on This is the Ed Sullivan Show.
So he's, you know, talking head Ed standing there, you know, saying,
(20:50):
here's Julia made to describe you the Lincoln for nineteen
fifty six, right, and she calls it the only and
this is again fifty six models. Um, the only really
new car are in the fine car field is how
they describe it, the fine car field. It's the biggest, longest,
the lowest Lincoln's ever built. And of course they topped
that again you know, going into sixty like we just mentioned.
(21:11):
But um, I thought it was interesting that, you know,
they talk about how the Lincoln stylists and engineers made
use of the Future design in the fifty six models.
So you can see as they kind of compare back
and forth in this in this short film clip. Um,
how you know, like the hooded headlamps and the what
they call it the dual jet pot exhaust out of
(21:32):
the back, and you know, like the long low deck
style and all that. Um really really it's it's very
apparent how the fifty six models mirrored some of what
came out of the Dream Car Future, which they only
made one of of course. Um, but again they call
them unmistakably the finest in the fine car field at
least three times in this film clip, so you know,
(21:54):
they were really really going for that that fine car
market at that point, the luxury car market in the
mid fifties. And as we'll see when we end this podcast,
I think we'll end on some news about the modern Lincoln.
We do enjoy ending on some current events at least,
and as we'll see when we close out our podcast today. Uh,
(22:16):
that is a goal that Lincoln still keeps in the
forefront of its mind. But Scott, I have to apologize
because I did try to jump to the eighties. That's okay,
I want you to go to the eighties and then
and then I've got something kind of a little different
to talk about, and then I and then I would
love to talk about the modern air Lincoln's. I was
actually I was gonna do the same thing. I think
(22:37):
you're picking up what I'm putting down. I think we're
on the same page. Is it time for Scott and
Ben's movie club? Maybe it is? Why not? We can
do that right now? How about that? All right? So
I've got one that that really cantboy. I think it's
gonna be really fascinating for the car stuff listeners, because, um,
it's about an aircraft carrier. It's called Super Carrier and
from two thousand and six, and this is a documentary
(22:59):
that it describes anything and everything you want to know
about the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, and this is just
an enormous, enormous aircraft carrier. Huge have been. I was
this just this last weekend. I was in Charlestown and
I went to I went to the Charleston Harbor and
more there in the Charleston Harbor, they've got an aircraft
(23:21):
carrier and a destroyer. And the aircraft carrier that they
have there is the U. S. S. Yorktown and it's
about eight hundred and twenty ft long. Um, it's it's huge.
Of course. However, this uh, this Dwight D. Eisenhower that's
the focus of this uh this movie called or this
documentary called Supercarrier, that's a full three feet longer than
(23:42):
the than the Yorktown that I just saw this weekend,
And that is massive. I mean, it's a it's a
great thing. It looks like a city building laid down
on its side really and to imagine one that's three
d feet longer, it's gonna be enormous. So this thing
is I mean, the the Eisenhower is something like one
hundred thousand tons. It's got six thousand personnel on board.
(24:02):
It's it's one thousand, one d and fifteen feet long,
which is just enormous. The deck is measured in acres.
It's four and a half acres in size. And we uh,
you know, confession, I've watched Super Carrier. I'm so on
board with this. Yeah. Uh. And because I used Netflix
a lot of my house, you can see the day
to day life of people aboard the carrier. You can
(24:26):
learn some fascinating facts about the numbers involved. You know,
how much these people eat, how much fuel does this
thing take? How is it powered? You can see the
power plant, which is super cool. Oh that sounds interesting.
They spend a full seven days on board um and
just kind of uh go through everything as it prepares
for action in Iraq, I think is where I was
(24:46):
headed to. Um. Now, this thing was launched in nineteen
seventy five. The cost of it, you know, one of
the new in nineteen seventy when they started building it
it took five years to build six hundred and seventy
nine million dollars, and if you translate that too, uh,
And I couldn't find a currency calculator that would translate
this reason, that would that would translate this dollar amount
into into anything recent. So they gave me a two
(25:09):
thousand seven number, which is four and a half billion
dollars is what this thing would cost. So six or
seventy nine million in nineteen seventy is the same as
four and a half billion dollars in two thousand seven.
It makes me look worry a little bit about just
the rate of inflation there. I've been worried about that
for so long. Been alright, So that's that's again, that's
a different different podcasts. But you can check out Supercarrier
(25:32):
on Netflix today for my favorite number, which is free
if you go to uh. If you go to netflix
dot com slash car Stuff, let them know that Scott
and Ben sent you, and they will give you a
free thirty day trial where in during which you can
access uh thousands, my friends, thousands of different videos, documentaries.
(25:54):
Film doesn't have to be Supercarrier, but I think that
I really do think that the car Stuff listeners will
enjoy that just because of you know what, what we
do every day. I think if if people are listening,
they're gonna be interested in this type of thing. And again,
a thirty day membership for free. How many movies do
you think you can download in thirty days? Well, let's
see if there's twenty four hours in a day and
we take out one hour total. No, no, also a
(26:15):
different podcasts, but do check it out. Let us know
what you think. Um, we are personally big fans of
Netflix as well and super carriers. Makes me think about
how much I enjoy exploring machines. Let's get back to
the machines that are the subject of this podcast, the
Lincoln and I think you were talking about the nineteen eighties, right, ah, yes,
thank you, Scott Good save the Lincoln town Car introduced
(26:38):
as its own as its own line in ninety one.
It's got a five point oh V eight uh one
hundred and seventeen inch wheelbase on seventeen ish. I think
it's like point three fair enough. I'm not gonna hold
you to the number. Okay, don't hold me to the number.
And for a lot of people, the Lincoln town Car
(26:59):
is something that you associate with what what would you
say they going for quiet taste? Oh, I was gonna
say airport taxis airport taxis, Oh high five for sure.
Sure there's a that's because I remember I remember seeing those,
um seeing those airport taxes. Oh definitely, yeah, they're there.
That that to me, that car. I see it all
over the places as as marked as a limousine or
(27:21):
an airport taxi for Atlanta exactly. And and the problem
with this, Ben I don't know how much more he
wanted to to stay about the about the Lincoln Town.
But the problem with that is that they kind of
got this reputation as haven't been a little bit tarnished.
The brand was a little tarnished for decades, they said,
because you know, they had this this fine automobile, this
custom coach work, and and they kind of went a
(27:43):
different direction in the nineteen eighties. Um, just kind of
and this is a term that was thrown around a
lot when I was reading about Lincoln's in the nineteen
eighties through Man, I'm gonna say all the way through
about two thousand eleven. Um, they said that it was
kind of a lackluster brand, Uh, that it just kind
of it didn't have much inspiration, It didn't have a
lot of a lot of new direction that it was headed. Um,
(28:06):
it was just it didn't have any punch. It didn't
have It was a little bit bland, even say, is
what one of the criticisms it just in and it's
it's that's kind of an unfair way to think about it,
because they were producing a quality products. Still, you know,
I think it's okay, it wasn't. It wasn't fantastic, like
it probably should have been based on his history. But
you know, that's the thing, like they're they're looking you're
(28:27):
looking back at a history that was at that point,
you know, sixty plus years old, and it just wasn't
following in line with the way that the car had
the brand brother had progressed up to that point, like
in the nineties. It just kind of was a lull
in the Lincoln action. I guess it is maybe the
best way to say it. And uh, and then they
kind of they did something in two thousand eleven that
(28:47):
that is it was. It was kind of a shock
to me really within with new ads, the recent Lincoln
television ads and radio ads, um, they've they've started to
reinvent the once great luxury brand by by saying that
they're they're now introducing the Lincoln Motor Company. Yeah, introducing
(29:08):
the Lincoln Motor Company, the m k Z and uh
and well real quick, Scott, not to not to go
too far back, but we should remember that in the nineties,
two thousands, let me see my spiders, since is telling
me it is two thousand when the Navigator, oh, the
Navigators introduced in I apologize. Okay, so they had a
(29:29):
giant suv also, so they had those ads, but they
still weren't they still weren't quite getting into the markets.
So what they did is something that's very common in
Hollywood nowadays. They said, hey, let's reboot the franchise. That's right. Yeah,
so this uh, this whole line, and I want you
to pay attention to any Lincoln commercials you see now
or have seen in the last two years. Yes, um,
(29:50):
they will clearly state introducing the Lincoln Motor Company, even
though this is approaching years old. So that's kind of
interesting to me that they're that they're doing this reintroduction
to the American people, the American the world public. Really, right, Yeah,
that's a that's a good point. I mean that you
can't really blame them because especially in the nineties and
two thousand's that were falling behind in international sales, so
(30:13):
they kind of want to be a new thing. Um.
Jim Farley, who was the vice president of the Marketing,
Sales and Service Lincoln at the time, Um, you know,
he was speaking about their upcoming Super Bowl commercial at
the time. It's like two twelve, I think, okay, and uh.
(30:35):
He said, the all New Lincoln MKZ represents a new
day for Lincoln, and we consider it a worthy new
calling card for get this got a reinvented brand along
with a reinvented customer experience of delightful personal service, where
confident Lincoln will be on the leading edge of attracting
a new class of premium buyers. Cedric, cedric, etcetera. Yeah,
(30:57):
that's important what he said, they're premium buyers because the
way they're doing this is through these Really, I'm gonna
just they're they're beautiful, thoughtful, classy, intelligent, emotional ads that
they're creating for the Lincoln brand. And if you watch
some of them you'll see what I mean. They're they're
very carefully crafted. I mean all commercials are really all
(31:17):
ads are, you know, for the messages that they want.
But um, they really are being very very careful about
what they say, and they they say things like, trust
your instincts, remember where you came from, and then go
somewhere completely new. They're saying, um, you know, don't try
to be and this is one of the key things
that they say in their in their ads, don't try
to be all things to all people, but whether everything
to a certain few. Um. So they're returning to the
(31:39):
core values of the brand. They're they're taking it back
to what they believed in in nineteen seventeen when they
started the company nineteen two when you know they became
when they really became the Lincoln brand under the Forward
Motor parent company. Um. So, you know this, this introduction
of the Lincoln Motor Company is really reinventing this wants
(32:00):
great luxury brand and they're being very cautious about it.
They're there, I guess what they say. They're they're turning
back the clock to a time when you know, Lincoln
meant luxury and prestige and yeah and everything everything that
was was all about the finer automobiles and the finer
things in life. And that's and that's what they want
the image of Lincoln to be. They wanted to be
a standout brand once again. For a while it was
(32:22):
reported that Lincoln would only focus on high volume luxury
segments and not really have like a halo car. And then, uh,
one I read this sentence. I wanted to read it
to Scott because I thought I wanted to see what
you think about this. It's from a review the two
thousand thirteen in case is Lincoln's valiant attempt to create
a better lexus. Oh that's interesting, A valiant attempt. I
(32:45):
wonder why they would say that. I mean, I wonder
if maybe they saying it's falling short? Is that what
they're well? They this argument um in the in in
this review it says, uh that they the author didn't
feel that the different sheet metal and interior design adequately
distinguished the MKZ from the Ford Fusion on which it
(33:07):
is based. Oh boy, okay, so it comes from Ford Fusion.
So it's just wrapped in this this new exterior. And
it's weird because there's still that dichotomy that was in
the d n A of Ford and Lincoln. You know,
almost a hundred years ago. Now it's been there all along. Really,
I mean that's the thing like but and then this
is the reality. The reality is that. I mean you
just mentioned with Lexis brand in you know, they have
(33:32):
to compete compete with some some different players, some of
the same players as they did back in you know
we mentioned that list, you know, the the the Dews
and Bergs of course not around and Packards not around anymore.
But you know, now they're competing with BMW, Cadillac is
still there, Mercedes, which they're kind of competing back at
the time. Audi They I mean, they really have to
(33:53):
bring what I'll call their A game in order to
compete on this world scale that they are right now.
And you know they're they are competing in something like
one dred and thirty luxury markets right now. Oh, bring
your l game. Not bad, not bad, they um. They
they are promising some new products, which is a good sign. Um.
(34:14):
You know they've got five one do they have on
their site now? I think they have five products that
that are for sale right now under the Lincoln brand.
And there was a concept car on there as well,
and really actually very nice concept car if you want
to check it. Out on online. Um. And then they
have a promise for what they call seven new or
significantly refinished products by by And that's weird to me.
(34:37):
Significantly refinished, yeah, I'm sorry, refreshed, refreshed, significantly refreshed products
by miss books so um, which is interesting because for
a long time, Lincoln didn't do model year differences. Yeah,
and they're they're talking about oh really, yeah, they're they didn't,
they didn't update like other companies that that's what you're saying. Yeah,
that's right exactly, you're right, Um. But the are saying that,
(35:00):
you know, within the next two years, you know from now,
from this point, they're going to have as many as
twelve products out there in the marketplace. And and I
just I'm really excited to see what they come up
with because they have made a dramatic change in their
in their design focus. If you look at the town
car and then you look at something like the MKZ
(35:20):
I can receive, they're really they're bringing it into, you know,
more into the future what it should be at this point,
and I like town cars. I'm gonna go out and say,
I know that there might be some people who disagree
with me, but to me. They're they're a little less
ostentatious as limousines. They're a little bit of um, a
tactical dignity. Yeah, you know what, I don't have a
(35:41):
problem with me that they ride great? Want to buy one?
I don't think I do either. But they ride fantastic.
I mean, they have a I don't know, they're they're stately,
I guess in a way, I mean, if they're done right.
For a while they were. I think that for a
while there was a campaign where it talked about how
quiet it was, now, smooth, the ride was now Lincoln.
I would believe that. Yeah, I would believe that too. Um.
(36:02):
But now we are looking forward. This is how we
end our podcast on Lincoln. With a company that has
such wonderful history, such a rich story behind it, We're
looking forward to the next phase of Lincoln's evolution. How's
it gonna work out? They've got big plans. Um. So
I guess what we would ask for now is, uh, listeners,
would you like to send us some stories about your Lincoln?
(36:25):
If you own one, Have you driven or written in
a Lincoln, particularly maybe one that has the suicide doors.
We talked about the old, the old continentals um or
car that he knows there a car that you converted.
The suicide doors any anything about suicide doors? How about that? Oh? Yeah,
maybe we should just do a suicide door podcast. Those
are the coolest. How about a listening that has a
zephyr with a V twelve? Have you? That would be cool.
(36:49):
I'd like to see some photos of that, and and
maybe some stories about how difficult it is to find
parts of that or to keep it running. Oh can
you imagine it's like you have to fabricate parts? Maybe?
Maybe well right in. Let us know what you think
about this, and feel free to suggest some upcoming topics.
You can find us on Facebook. You can drop us
a line on Twitter. You can always email us directly.
(37:10):
Our email address is our stuff at discovery dot com.
For more on this and thousands of other topics, this
at how stuff works dot com. Let us know what
you think, send an email to podcast head how stuff
works dot com
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car Stuff from house stuff Works dot Com. Hi, welcome
to car Stuff on the Scott Benjamin, and I'm Ben Bullet.
Hey Ben. We've got part two of our exciting Lincoln
Motor Company episode coming up here, so I think we
(00:23):
better do a little bit of recap maybe at the
head of this way. Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's
do uh weick recaps, start at the beginning with our
way through the middle, and then I'm wrap it up
with the end. Right, Yeah, that's good. That's maybe how
we'll do it. So we've got a we've we've already
gone through what about two I think, yes, yeah, all
the way through the formation of the Lincoln brand, all
(00:43):
the way up to two, and we've covered a lot
of ground so far. And bear with me here because
I'm gonna go through a couple of bullet points of
what we've covered in part one and then we'll be
right on to part two. And even if you listen
prior to that, you know, to episode one, stay tuned
here because there's a couple of things in here that
I just maybe we glossed over and we'll hit him again,
(01:04):
right here so real quick, Um, remember we have to
go all the way back to Henry Ford. So Henry Ford,
he had two companies before before the Ford Motor Company,
so that the Ford Motor Company was actually his third
automobile company. He had the Detroit Automobile Company from one,
the Henry Ford Company from nineteen o one nineteen o two,
(01:26):
and then in nineteen o two Henry the Land was
brought in as a consultant to Henry Ford h for
the Henry Ford Company, you know, Henry's second company. And
that's when Ford split off. I was forced out of
the company, didn't you know, had bad blood there with
Henry Land, and UM formed the Ford Motor Company. So
(01:47):
Um the Land reorganized a company, and then of course
he called it, as we remember, the Cadillac Automobile Company,
which infamously still exists today as in the fine motor
company that it is. And of course they competed with
Ford as well with the Lincoln brand eventually, as we'll
find out, all right, So the Land then sold Cadillac
(02:07):
to GM in nineteen o nine, just seven years later. Um,
and let's see the company that well, we mentioned that
they've they've fiercely competed with Lincoln later on, but um,
he stayed with the Cadillac Motor Company until nineteen seventeen,
so the Land kind of hung on for another that
was at eight years, I guess. And in nineteen seventeen,
(02:29):
after he left Cadillac, he started the Lincoln Motor Company, right,
that's right. And so he founds this this Lincoln Motor
Company in nineteen seventeen with his son, Wilfrid Land, and
the two of them initially started building, um or assembling
I should say, liberty aircraft engines for World War One aircraft.
(02:51):
And then the war ended in nineteen eighteen. Um, you
know on these World War One government contracts is how
they're kind of existing at this point. Ye, And so
now they have to build cars. Yeah, and that's what
they initially wanted to do, right, So they start building cars.
They only build just about one hundred and fifty cars
as a standalone brand is Lincoln alone with no Ford involvement.
Oh the L series and yeah, that's right, the L
(03:13):
series cars. And um, you know, they came into financial
trouble with the Lincoln brand in so just right out
of the gate financial trouble, Ford bought Lincoln in Um
at the urging of uh well then Ford president ethel Ford, Yes,
who people might recognize as the son of Henry Ford.
(03:35):
Now given their in nitty that these two men had
their animosity between the two Henry's Lalond and Ford. Uh
We I think towards the end of the first part
of the show we were talking about how it must
have felt to be Henry Ford walking in to buy
(03:55):
that company. I think we were speculating and he was
rubbing his hands together at the windows still you know,
and yes, yes, yeah, Monty burns very very excited about
the purchase of h of this Lincoln brand because Um, personally, again,
that's a that's a big victory for Ford. I'm sure
that he held on to a lot of that. There's
probably a grudge there. I would assume, just knowing Ford
(04:17):
as the character, that he was right right And we
know this is this dovetails into some of the stuff
that we're going to talk about today, because we do
know that regardless of whatever personal problems these two men
may have had, that the Ford Motor Company's purchase of
Lincoln really saved the company because just one year later
(04:39):
Scott nineteen three, uh their sales rose by sure. Yeah,
but however, the lands were out. They were already out
by late night. I think they're up by ninety two.
So they were not asked to stay on like they
were with the Cadillac Motor Company. They didn't. They didn't
hang on as you know, as members of the board
(04:59):
or anything like that. For just out right said, you
know what, here's your money, you're on your way, and
that's it. And so there was exactly there's there's the door,
you know what, to not let it do on your way,
I mean, but he learned his lesson about keeping that
guy on board anyway. Yeah, that's true. That's true. So okay,
so here we are, we'reo. And I just want to
(05:19):
note that Lincoln operated kind of as a separate unit
until about until about ninety so late. I mean, there's
like eighteen years here where the Lincoln brand was operating
completely separate from Ford Motor Company, yet under the parent
you know, they're operating of the parent company Afford. However,
there just wasn't really a whole lot of involvement going
on there. But edzel Ford, who was the president of
(05:42):
Ford Motor Company, not the CEO. The CEO was still
Mr Henry Ford, and he held onto that like that
ultimate power, I guess at that point. So, um, I'm
sure that you know, there's some urging from edgel to
purchase the Lincoln brand because he there's there's some unusual
things about Edzel I want to talk about in just
a second, but um, yeah, I mean we we've mentioned
(06:05):
that they were sold for a pretty hepty sum. Right, Yeah,
they were. They were pretty expensive because um, these let's see,
the vehicles built by these guys would go for as
much as seven grand. And that's in the twenties. Yeah,
that's right. These were what they called fine automobiles. They
were luxury automobiles. Uh. They were separate from what Ford
(06:25):
had decided to build with the Model T, the Model A. Yeah,
so you know he had he built kind of like these,
um these cars that were good for the everyman. You
know that there they were mass produced, they were they
were widely available, um, used for many many different purposes.
These these cars that the Lincoln brand focused on were
more custom coachures. Yeah, more of a more of a
(06:48):
higher end thing. Now, when ed sell In stopped me,
if I'm going past some stuff we need to hit, um,
ed Sell said, let's make a couple of different designs.
Let's diversify our high end portfolio a bit. Yeah, and
there's a good reason for that, because ed Sell, I'm like,
(07:08):
you know, Henry he appreciated kind of the beauty of
the cars as well as like their function, because I
you know, I mentioned that Henry is more into function
over over form, and uh, Edel he also appreciated the
way that the cars looked, the way that they felt
when you sat on them, the way that they appeared
on the street when they were parked. Um, he was
more of a he had more of a finer touch.
I guess with these type of things, I don't know
(07:29):
how to a better eye for design. I suppose maybe
it's the best action of the aesthetic. Yeah, exactly. And
you'll see a lot of styling changes in the in
the nineteen twenties where the late ninety twenties where you
know Edzel had a lot to do with that, where um,
you know he picked the leaping greyhound hood ornament and um,
I don't know, just a lot of the the the
(07:52):
the smooth, sleek elements of the Lincoln he had like
a Phaeton design. They had a limousine, US seven passenger
sedans very nice, and even a two passenger roadsters. So
there were quite a few options. Yeah, exactly. And before
he passed away, and I do want to talk about
l in just a moment before Edsel passed away, Um,
(08:13):
he commissioned coach builders from all over the United States
to build special luxury bodies for this Lincoln brand. So
you know, you're you're looking at a car that at
the time, you gotta remember it's competition. At the time,
Lincoln was competing with with Duisenberg. They're competing with Piercer, Yeah,
Pierce Arrow, Oh yeah, Packard, you're one of your favorites, Mormon, Cadillac,
(08:33):
you know they were, of course Cadillac because we just
mentioned um so Peerless was another one there. There are
these really really high end what we'll call fine automobiles
at the time that we're that were being uh produced
by other companies that Lincoln was now in the I
don't know, in the in the ring with. Yeah, they
were in the same sphere. They're in the same market.
And when I love that you pointed out these uh
(08:54):
coach builders that he contracted with, because some of them
might be familiar to people, um, especially le Baron. It
will be familiar to a lot of people. That's the name.
We're still here today even. Yeah, and maybe we should
do a podcast on that. But Scott, before we go
any further, you guy to tell me about all right,
So Edel and I don't have a whole lot of
(09:15):
information about him, but you know it because that's another
podcast in itself right there. It's little Ford and itself. Yeah,
all these spinoffs we could do, right, but you know
that Zel he took control of the brand of the
Lincoln brand almost immediately. Now he was the president of
Ford Motor Company. I mentioned that that Henry was the
CEO of Ford Motor Company and um, it's kind of
(09:38):
an interesting dynamic that took place there. Now. I guess
I'll just tell you right now that that's all um.
He passed away in nineteen forty three, unexpectedly. He's only
forty nine years old. Died before Henry Ford the first did. Um.
It was kind of like I think it was a
stomach cancer surgery that he had gone through and then
he died of some kind of bacterial disease was caused
(09:58):
by they think on scaralized milk or possibly meet from
infect with animals. That sounds so gross, but um, you know,
it's kind of prior to the day of you know,
really quite understanding exactly how every thing worked, you know,
as far as bacteria growth and all that. So there's
it seems to me that I remember there's some kind
of odd story about Henry Ford and unpasteurized milk, and
(10:19):
you know that the his beliefs and all this, it's
there's some kind of tie in there. But yeah, yeah,
I'm gonna have to really investigate that just to learn
a little bit more. But um, now, remember I mentioned
that that Henry was the CEO of Ford Motor Company.
This may surprise some of our listeners. Henry Ford was
(10:40):
not the first CEO of Ford Motor Company. And yeah,
I don't know if you do that or not. I
mean some people may, some people may not. Who was
the first CEO of Ford Motor There was a guy
named John S. Gray who was a he was a
candy maker, businessman, banker, original investor in the Ford Motor
Company and he was he was the money, that's right,
(11:00):
and Ford trusted him as CEO for the first three
years of the company. So from nineteen oh three to
nineteen o six until he passed away. John S. Gray
was the CEO of Ford Motor Company. Then Henry Ford
took over UM in nineteen o six and held the
CEO position all the way until nineteen and that's just
(11:21):
two years prior to Henry's death in nineteen forty seven.
As far as presidents go, UM now President Ford Motor Company,
we'll see John John Gray who was also the president.
I guess um he CEO and president UM again nineteen
o three to nineteen o six, Henry Ford from nineteen
o six to nineteen nineteen, and that's when Edsel took
(11:41):
over in nineteen nineteen until I mentioned his death in
nineteen forty three, UM in office and then Henry took
over for it came back into the office for just
another two years from forty three to forty five, and
then of course he passed away in nineteen forty seven,
and then it went on to UH. I think it
was Henry Ford the second and he held a position
until something like nineteen six. So you know it's and
(12:04):
and even now it's still in the UH, you know,
the run by for they're still in the company within
the corporation. So there's a long, long history of presidents
and CEOs that come from the Ford family, obviously, but
interesting that he was not the first CEO. Yeah, that
is a little known fact here. I know I had
known that he was at the first CEO, but I
(12:25):
did not know the details about Mr Gray. Who would
have known? It would be a candy maker, who would
have known? I guess candy is U is a good
business to get into, big business, lots of money to
be made there. Yeah, a lot of people have the
sweet tooth and uh, would we go back to Lincoln
and let's segway this because you know one thing about
any kind of market, whether it's candy or cars, you
(12:46):
have to know what your customers want and you have
to specialize in this. And Lincoln early on UM after
the purchase with Ford Motor Company. I think that's one
of the reasons that their sales went up so much
because ed Cell and the Lincoln Ram broke some of
the typical rules or rather divisions between the luxury car
(13:07):
market and the car for everybody car market. UM. For example,
we talked about how they worked with specific coach builders. UM.
They also had the idea of these add on customizations
that you could buy right, so you could get you
can get varnished wood wheels for fifteen dollars. You could
get a new a nice nickel plated radiator shell. You know.
(13:32):
You could add these things on instead of um those
coming bespoke. So it was like predetermined customization options, so
you could really make it your own, I guess is
what they're saying, in a slightly more affordable way, perhaps
than a Duisenberg are certainly, you know, um a packard,
(13:54):
which I'm going to get one one day, I know
you will. I'm gonna let it go with this podcast,
but I just that to be on the record. Also,
they built what we're called police flyers. Remember those? No,
I don't what's you know what? You've got probably a
lot more information about about some of the models and
specifics and idea because I'm kind of running out of
the history stuff here. I do want to get to
the to the modern age. But tell me please about
(14:16):
the police flyers, because that's that's cool. Well, they were
for police departments, and this is in the twenties, and
they had some pretty I don't know if Nolan's gonna
let me curse on on air, so I'll say kick butt, uh, customizations,
the kind of things you would be familiar with modern
law enforcement vehicles, bulletproof windows, spotlights on the ends of
(14:38):
the windshield in the in the nineteen twenties, Well, they're
called bulletproof finger quotes because they were you know, almost
an inch thick. Oh, that's very thick glass. So that's
that's I think there their attempt to make a bulletproof um.
And then in ninety six we go to a vehicle
that a lot of people will probably we remember are
(15:01):
familiar with, the Lincoln Zephyr. Yep, that's a big, giant
hood vehicle, right, I mean, that's one of the classic
Lincoln designs. I guess what what's uh, what's maybe the
standout features on that for you? I mean, I mean,
do you have one? Do you think it's it's it's
streamlined grill, the I mean the long, long, stretched out hood.
I mean, are these are these the car has been
(15:22):
that they show next to trains and things like that.
That one to the length, Yeah, well, the length and
the and the the streamlining. You know how they had
the trains that seem to mimic the designs of the cars.
That's a good point it seems to me like I've
seen a Zephyr park next to a train that maybe
is called the Zephyr or something. We talked about some
of this little bit in our Deco Car podcast, Yeah,
in our art Deco Car podcast. So it's a bit
(15:44):
of that in the Zephyr design, right. Yeah, And the
Zephyr had a Monster V twelve engine. Uh, it was
styling studio that Edselford began. They created the Zephyr, and
the Zephyr leads to um, this sort of the progenitor
of a bunch of other Lincoln models, so that there's
a smaller Lincoln Zephyr which eventually becomes the first Continental
(16:10):
And that's a that was supposed to be a one off,
just creative for Edsel really yeah. Interesting, and then um,
it was so successful. The smaller Zephyr was so successful
in nineteen thirty six that it lasted until the end
of ninety UM, and then they discontinued the Lincolns twelve,
(16:33):
but by all Lincoln's, all Lincoln's manufactured were based on
the Zephyr. Very interesting. Yeah, they the the big Lincoln
V twelve. I'm sure that's there's a coveted piece by collectors.
Oh can you imagine. Yeah, just to just to be
able to get in there and uh, I don't want
to say tinker with the engine, but just to watch
it work and just as fascinating to see it in operation.
(16:55):
But yeah, that that that Zephyr hood that I mentioned,
that long, long hood, that's what it covers. And man,
if you read a car show and you see a Zephyr,
just take a peek under the hood and see what
you see there. Because of E twelve, that's pretty impressive. Yeah,
and the Zephyr is in the Lincoln story. Uh, the
Zephyr is you know, kind of a deep cut. I
guess the l series would be the first teeth cut.
(17:15):
But interesting thing about the Lincoln Continental which the Zephyr inspired. Uh,
Frank Lloyd Wright called it the most beautiful car in
the world. That's something I would come from a notable
designer like that. Um, you know, I kind of like
to skip ahead if that's possible. I mean, I know,
there's this whole Continental division that happened. We could get
lost in the rabbit hole. The Unibody era that that
(17:36):
I want to mention something out of the Unibody era
from the in the late fifties, I think it was.
And um, now these are some of the longest cars
that Ford built ever, I mean, the longest production vehicles ever. Um.
And they've got to seek at this extremely long wheelbase,
huge huge cars. UM. The first Lincoln town Car which
(17:58):
was available. And this sounds like a like a Ford joke.
Almost only in black and and I know that's funny
because you know we've heard that before that you know,
they said that about the Model T, right, they could
have any color they want as long as it's black. Yeah,
which we found out is not necessarily true. It's in fact,
they had quite a few colors that you could choose from.
(18:18):
It's just black happened to be the fastest drownd, the
most popular option, you know, all that that was the
most efficient. And and of course Henry loved the black
Ford Model TS because you know, that made sense to him,
because it was it was a good economic decision for
him his company to create a lot of black forward
Model T s. UM. But again, only in black was
how you could get the first Lincoln town Car. And
(18:39):
then if you skip a little bit further, head into
the continental era. UM. Now there's a couple of reasons
that these are these are important. They've got this well,
they say it's conservative styling. Um a lot smaller in design.
There's a full fifteen inches shorter than the nineteen sixty Lincolns,
which is that's that's a dramatic drop in size. Really, However,
(19:00):
if you look at it the ninet sixty nine Lincoln Continental,
it's still gonna look like a massive there's still huge.
And I think it's the sixties, right Scott where the
doors opened from the center exactly, And that's the rear
suicide doors. And that's really what I was trying to
get at at this point. Um. And and that's probably
the last kind of historical Oh wait, I've got one
more vehicle I when I talked about. But the suicide
(19:22):
doors on the on the Lincoln continentals are just so cool.
I watched I watched a bunch of Ford promotional videos
just before we came in here, some of the stylinge
stuff from the nineteen sixties, and you know, this really
interesting like where they're doing the claim modeling and all that,
and it's leading up to what I'm talking about next.
But um, they were showing the operation of some of
the suicide doors, and you know when they open it
(19:44):
up and there's just there's nothing there. It's it's wide open.
You see the two bench seats and in front of
you very very cool cars. So check out the suicide
doors on those h on those early continentals. They're really interesting.
Oh and also we should mention the Lincoln Town Own
Car introduced as its own line in the eighties and
skip away ahead. Yeah, is that okay? Well tell you
(20:06):
what I know. You want to jump up to the
eighties school, let's do that, because I do want to
get to the modern ones. But I've got remember I
mentioned one more car I wanted to talk about. Oh yes,
and I think I think you guys know that. You know,
I'm a huge fan of the future, right the nineteen
concept car, dream car, whatever you wanna call it. I
didn't know this, but I guess the Ed Sullivan Show
featured the Futura one year and in fifty five they
(20:29):
featured it. They he said, they revealed it. Now. I
watched the clip from nineteen fifty six when they're talking
about the fifty six Lincoln designs and and they showed
the future from the year prior. You know, a video
clip film clip brother from the year prior, and he
introduces a woman on This is the Ed Sullivan Show.
So he's, you know, talking head Ed standing there, you know, saying,
(20:50):
here's Julia made to describe you the Lincoln for nineteen
fifty six, right, and she calls it the only and
this is again fifty six models. Um, the only really
new car are in the fine car field is how
they describe it, the fine car field. It's the biggest, longest,
the lowest Lincoln's ever built. And of course they topped
that again you know, going into sixty like we just mentioned.
(21:11):
But um, I thought it was interesting that, you know,
they talk about how the Lincoln stylists and engineers made
use of the Future design in the fifty six models.
So you can see as they kind of compare back
and forth in this in this short film clip. Um,
how you know, like the hooded headlamps and the what
they call it the dual jet pot exhaust out of
(21:32):
the back, and you know, like the long low deck
style and all that. Um really really it's it's very
apparent how the fifty six models mirrored some of what
came out of the Dream Car Future, which they only
made one of of course. Um, but again they call
them unmistakably the finest in the fine car field at
least three times in this film clip, so you know,
(21:54):
they were really really going for that that fine car
market at that point, the luxury car market in the
mid fifties. And as we'll see when we end this podcast,
I think we'll end on some news about the modern Lincoln.
We do enjoy ending on some current events at least,
and as we'll see when we close out our podcast today. Uh,
(22:16):
that is a goal that Lincoln still keeps in the
forefront of its mind. But Scott, I have to apologize
because I did try to jump to the eighties. That's okay,
I want you to go to the eighties and then
and then I've got something kind of a little different
to talk about, and then I and then I would
love to talk about the modern air Lincoln's. I was
actually I was gonna do the same thing. I think
(22:37):
you're picking up what I'm putting down. I think we're
on the same page. Is it time for Scott and
Ben's movie club? Maybe it is? Why not? We can
do that right now? How about that? All right? So
I've got one that that really cantboy. I think it's
gonna be really fascinating for the car stuff listeners, because, um,
it's about an aircraft carrier. It's called Super Carrier and
from two thousand and six, and this is a documentary
(22:59):
that it describes anything and everything you want to know
about the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, and this is just
an enormous, enormous aircraft carrier. Huge have been. I was
this just this last weekend. I was in Charlestown and
I went to I went to the Charleston Harbor and
more there in the Charleston Harbor, they've got an aircraft
(23:21):
carrier and a destroyer. And the aircraft carrier that they
have there is the U. S. S. Yorktown and it's
about eight hundred and twenty ft long. Um, it's it's huge.
Of course. However, this uh, this Dwight D. Eisenhower that's
the focus of this uh this movie called or this
documentary called Supercarrier, that's a full three feet longer than
(23:42):
the than the Yorktown that I just saw this weekend,
And that is massive. I mean, it's a it's a
great thing. It looks like a city building laid down
on its side really and to imagine one that's three
d feet longer, it's gonna be enormous. So this thing
is I mean, the the Eisenhower is something like one
hundred thousand tons. It's got six thousand personnel on board.
(24:02):
It's it's one thousand, one d and fifteen feet long,
which is just enormous. The deck is measured in acres.
It's four and a half acres in size. And we uh,
you know, confession, I've watched Super Carrier. I'm so on
board with this. Yeah. Uh. And because I used Netflix
a lot of my house, you can see the day
to day life of people aboard the carrier. You can
(24:26):
learn some fascinating facts about the numbers involved. You know,
how much these people eat, how much fuel does this
thing take? How is it powered? You can see the
power plant, which is super cool. Oh that sounds interesting.
They spend a full seven days on board um and
just kind of uh go through everything as it prepares
for action in Iraq, I think is where I was
(24:46):
headed to. Um. Now, this thing was launched in nineteen
seventy five. The cost of it, you know, one of
the new in nineteen seventy when they started building it
it took five years to build six hundred and seventy
nine million dollars, and if you translate that too, uh,
And I couldn't find a currency calculator that would translate
this reason, that would that would translate this dollar amount
into into anything recent. So they gave me a two
(25:09):
thousand seven number, which is four and a half billion
dollars is what this thing would cost. So six or
seventy nine million in nineteen seventy is the same as
four and a half billion dollars in two thousand seven.
It makes me look worry a little bit about just
the rate of inflation there. I've been worried about that
for so long. Been alright, So that's that's again, that's
a different different podcasts. But you can check out Supercarrier
(25:32):
on Netflix today for my favorite number, which is free
if you go to uh. If you go to netflix
dot com slash car Stuff, let them know that Scott
and Ben sent you, and they will give you a
free thirty day trial where in during which you can
access uh thousands, my friends, thousands of different videos, documentaries.
(25:54):
Film doesn't have to be Supercarrier, but I think that
I really do think that the car Stuff listeners will
enjoy that just because of you know what, what we
do every day. I think if if people are listening,
they're gonna be interested in this type of thing. And again,
a thirty day membership for free. How many movies do
you think you can download in thirty days? Well, let's
see if there's twenty four hours in a day and
we take out one hour total. No, no, also a
(26:15):
different podcasts, but do check it out. Let us know
what you think. Um, we are personally big fans of
Netflix as well and super carriers. Makes me think about
how much I enjoy exploring machines. Let's get back to
the machines that are the subject of this podcast, the
Lincoln and I think you were talking about the nineteen eighties, right, ah, yes,
thank you, Scott Good save the Lincoln town Car introduced
(26:38):
as its own as its own line in ninety one.
It's got a five point oh V eight uh one
hundred and seventeen inch wheelbase on seventeen ish. I think
it's like point three fair enough. I'm not gonna hold
you to the number. Okay, don't hold me to the number.
And for a lot of people, the Lincoln town Car
(26:59):
is something that you associate with what what would you
say they going for quiet taste? Oh, I was gonna
say airport taxis airport taxis, Oh high five for sure.
Sure there's a that's because I remember I remember seeing those,
um seeing those airport taxes. Oh definitely, yeah, they're there.
That that to me, that car. I see it all
over the places as as marked as a limousine or
(27:21):
an airport taxi for Atlanta exactly. And and the problem
with this, Ben I don't know how much more he
wanted to to stay about the about the Lincoln Town.
But the problem with that is that they kind of
got this reputation as haven't been a little bit tarnished.
The brand was a little tarnished for decades, they said,
because you know, they had this this fine automobile, this
custom coach work, and and they kind of went a
(27:43):
different direction in the nineteen eighties. Um, just kind of
and this is a term that was thrown around a
lot when I was reading about Lincoln's in the nineteen
eighties through Man, I'm gonna say all the way through
about two thousand eleven. Um, they said that it was
kind of a lackluster brand, Uh, that it just kind
of it didn't have much inspiration, It didn't have a
lot of a lot of new direction that it was headed. Um,
(28:06):
it was just it didn't have any punch. It didn't
have It was a little bit bland, even say, is
what one of the criticisms it just in and it's
it's that's kind of an unfair way to think about it,
because they were producing a quality products. Still, you know,
I think it's okay, it wasn't. It wasn't fantastic, like
it probably should have been based on his history. But
you know, that's the thing, like they're they're looking you're
(28:27):
looking back at a history that was at that point,
you know, sixty plus years old, and it just wasn't
following in line with the way that the car had
the brand brother had progressed up to that point, like
in the nineties. It just kind of was a lull
in the Lincoln action. I guess it is maybe the
best way to say it. And uh, and then they
kind of they did something in two thousand eleven that
(28:47):
that is it was. It was kind of a shock
to me really within with new ads, the recent Lincoln
television ads and radio ads, um, they've they've started to
reinvent the once great luxury brand by by saying that
they're they're now introducing the Lincoln Motor Company. Yeah, introducing
(29:08):
the Lincoln Motor Company, the m k Z and uh
and well real quick, Scott, not to not to go
too far back, but we should remember that in the nineties,
two thousands, let me see my spiders, since is telling
me it is two thousand when the Navigator, oh, the
Navigators introduced in I apologize. Okay, so they had a
(29:29):
giant suv also, so they had those ads, but they
still weren't they still weren't quite getting into the markets.
So what they did is something that's very common in
Hollywood nowadays. They said, hey, let's reboot the franchise. That's right. Yeah,
so this uh, this whole line, and I want you
to pay attention to any Lincoln commercials you see now
or have seen in the last two years. Yes, um,
(29:50):
they will clearly state introducing the Lincoln Motor Company, even
though this is approaching years old. So that's kind of
interesting to me that they're that they're doing this reintroduction
to the American people, the American the world public. Really, right, Yeah,
that's a that's a good point. I mean that you
can't really blame them because especially in the nineties and
two thousand's that were falling behind in international sales, so
(30:13):
they kind of want to be a new thing. Um.
Jim Farley, who was the vice president of the Marketing,
Sales and Service Lincoln at the time, Um, you know,
he was speaking about their upcoming Super Bowl commercial at
the time. It's like two twelve, I think, okay, and uh.
(30:35):
He said, the all New Lincoln MKZ represents a new
day for Lincoln, and we consider it a worthy new
calling card for get this got a reinvented brand along
with a reinvented customer experience of delightful personal service, where
confident Lincoln will be on the leading edge of attracting
a new class of premium buyers. Cedric, cedric, etcetera. Yeah,
(30:57):
that's important what he said, they're premium buyers because the
way they're doing this is through these Really, I'm gonna
just they're they're beautiful, thoughtful, classy, intelligent, emotional ads that
they're creating for the Lincoln brand. And if you watch
some of them you'll see what I mean. They're they're
very carefully crafted. I mean all commercials are really all
(31:17):
ads are, you know, for the messages that they want.
But um, they really are being very very careful about
what they say, and they they say things like, trust
your instincts, remember where you came from, and then go
somewhere completely new. They're saying, um, you know, don't try
to be and this is one of the key things
that they say in their in their ads, don't try
to be all things to all people, but whether everything
to a certain few. Um. So they're returning to the
(31:39):
core values of the brand. They're they're taking it back
to what they believed in in nineteen seventeen when they
started the company nineteen two when you know they became
when they really became the Lincoln brand under the Forward
Motor parent company. Um. So, you know this, this introduction
of the Lincoln Motor Company is really reinventing this wants
(32:00):
great luxury brand and they're being very cautious about it.
They're there, I guess what they say. They're they're turning
back the clock to a time when you know, Lincoln
meant luxury and prestige and yeah and everything everything that
was was all about the finer automobiles and the finer
things in life. And that's and that's what they want
the image of Lincoln to be. They wanted to be
a standout brand once again. For a while it was
(32:22):
reported that Lincoln would only focus on high volume luxury
segments and not really have like a halo car. And then, uh,
one I read this sentence. I wanted to read it
to Scott because I thought I wanted to see what
you think about this. It's from a review the two
thousand thirteen in case is Lincoln's valiant attempt to create
a better lexus. Oh that's interesting, A valiant attempt. I
(32:45):
wonder why they would say that. I mean, I wonder
if maybe they saying it's falling short? Is that what
they're well? They this argument um in the in in
this review it says, uh that they the author didn't
feel that the different sheet metal and interior design adequately
distinguished the MKZ from the Ford Fusion on which it
(33:07):
is based. Oh boy, okay, so it comes from Ford Fusion.
So it's just wrapped in this this new exterior. And
it's weird because there's still that dichotomy that was in
the d n A of Ford and Lincoln. You know,
almost a hundred years ago. Now it's been there all along. Really,
I mean that's the thing like but and then this
is the reality. The reality is that. I mean you
just mentioned with Lexis brand in you know, they have
(33:32):
to compete compete with some some different players, some of
the same players as they did back in you know
we mentioned that list, you know, the the the Dews
and Bergs of course not around and Packards not around anymore.
But you know, now they're competing with BMW, Cadillac is
still there, Mercedes, which they're kind of competing back at
the time. Audi They I mean, they really have to
(33:53):
bring what I'll call their A game in order to
compete on this world scale that they are right now.
And you know they're they are competing in something like
one dred and thirty luxury markets right now. Oh, bring
your l game. Not bad, not bad, they um. They
they are promising some new products, which is a good sign. Um.
(34:14):
You know they've got five one do they have on
their site now? I think they have five products that
that are for sale right now under the Lincoln brand.
And there was a concept car on there as well,
and really actually very nice concept car if you want
to check it. Out on online. Um. And then they
have a promise for what they call seven new or
significantly refinished products by by And that's weird to me.
(34:37):
Significantly refinished, yeah, I'm sorry, refreshed, refreshed, significantly refreshed products
by miss books so um, which is interesting because for
a long time, Lincoln didn't do model year differences. Yeah,
and they're they're talking about oh really, yeah, they're they didn't,
they didn't update like other companies that that's what you're saying. Yeah,
that's right exactly, you're right, Um. But the are saying that,
(35:00):
you know, within the next two years, you know from now,
from this point, they're going to have as many as
twelve products out there in the marketplace. And and I
just I'm really excited to see what they come up
with because they have made a dramatic change in their
in their design focus. If you look at the town
car and then you look at something like the MKZ
(35:20):
I can receive, they're really they're bringing it into, you know,
more into the future what it should be at this point,
and I like town cars. I'm gonna go out and say,
I know that there might be some people who disagree
with me, but to me. They're they're a little less
ostentatious as limousines. They're a little bit of um, a
tactical dignity. Yeah, you know what, I don't have a
(35:41):
problem with me that they ride great? Want to buy one?
I don't think I do either. But they ride fantastic.
I mean, they have a I don't know, they're they're stately,
I guess in a way, I mean, if they're done right.
For a while they were. I think that for a
while there was a campaign where it talked about how
quiet it was, now, smooth, the ride was now Lincoln.
I would believe that. Yeah, I would believe that too. Um.
(36:02):
But now we are looking forward. This is how we
end our podcast on Lincoln. With a company that has
such wonderful history, such a rich story behind it, We're
looking forward to the next phase of Lincoln's evolution. How's
it gonna work out? They've got big plans. Um. So
I guess what we would ask for now is, uh, listeners,
would you like to send us some stories about your Lincoln?
(36:25):
If you own one, Have you driven or written in
a Lincoln, particularly maybe one that has the suicide doors.
We talked about the old, the old continentals um or
car that he knows there a car that you converted.
The suicide doors any anything about suicide doors? How about that? Oh? Yeah,
maybe we should just do a suicide door podcast. Those
are the coolest. How about a listening that has a
zephyr with a V twelve? Have you? That would be cool.
(36:49):
I'd like to see some photos of that, and and
maybe some stories about how difficult it is to find
parts of that or to keep it running. Oh can
you imagine it's like you have to fabricate parts? Maybe?
Maybe well right in. Let us know what you think
about this, and feel free to suggest some upcoming topics.
You can find us on Facebook. You can drop us
a line on Twitter. You can always email us directly.
(37:10):
Our email address is our stuff at discovery dot com.
For more on this and thousands of other topics, this
at how stuff works dot com. Let us know what
you think, send an email to podcast head how stuff
works dot com
CarStuff News
Hosts And Creators
Scott Benjamin
Ben Bowlin
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