June 16, 2015 • 43 mins
After Scott returns from some globe-traveling, he's usually got a story or two up his sleeve. But this time, Ben will have no clue what the episode's going to be about. Tune in to hear how (and if) it works out.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car stuff from house Stuff Works dot Com. I'd welcome
to car stuff on Scott I've been and we've got
our superproducer know the plot twist Brown with us as always,
Uh a little I'm interested to see how this one goes.
(00:23):
I was gonna see you might be a little bit nervous.
Safe you're nervous. I'm nervous. You're nervous. I'm feeling. I'm feeling.
I'm empathizing with what you felt the last time we
did this. Yeah, this is only the second time we've
attempted this, and this is I just see the listeners
know what's going on. Uh, this is the second time
we've done this. Last time was with barn Finds right
right that barn find and us just outside of Austin. Yeah. Um,
(00:45):
this is a topic that I am coming in here
with full knowledge of or at least some somehowedge if
I don't want to. I don't want to over over
promote this or anything, but I got some knowledge of
this one. And then you don't even know what we're
gonna talk about to day. No idea, no idea. I
haven't told you the topic I haven't shown you anything,
I haven't shared anything with you. This is just a
(01:06):
cold start for you. So let's see how you handle this.
And I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a question and
we'll see where this leads and we'll see how this
this all plays out here may or may not work. Um.
All right, So I was on vacation recently and I
was hanging out, you know, just relaxing, soaking in some sun.
But what am I going to talk with Ben about
(01:26):
this this upcoming episode? And he's killing me to think, like,
because we've got rules, we got certain rules we can't
we can't apply to this set, to this podect. We do,
we do apply the rules. We can't talk about certain things.
And these are rules that you right away set down
when we right Yeah, he said no alternative fuels, no
(01:48):
flying cars, flying cars, and the other one was autonomous vehicles. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's just because it's not because we hate those,
it's just because those three things in particular seem to
continually have little updates that we have usually covered in
some way before. If you go back through our history,
(02:08):
we have covered those three things, I think pretty extensively
over the past seven years because we try to keep
up to date with the latest of what's going on.
So that's the reason we don't talk about those three things.
And of course flying cars is just because those make
me so angry. Yeah, that's a good point, alight. Alright,
So here's the here's the question for you then, and
(02:30):
this is the first time you're here in this all right.
If you had the power to bring back one defunct
American automaker brand or mark, which one would you choose?
And why? Now this this requires quite a bit of thought.
It's more than you initially think, because you can you
can make a snap decision of sure you can. You
can say, um, you could be you could pick any
(02:53):
brand you want and to say, like, oh, I really
liked um the lassal I would like it if Lasau
would come back right now and build cars, you know,
as they had back in the nineteen twenties whenever. I'll
have to look up the stats on that. But um.
The trick behind this, though, is that you've got to
kind of think about it this way. Let's say that
the car company went out of business in the Great
(03:14):
Depression and a lot of them did, I mean a
lot of these makers that will talk about it. I
don't have exact stats on this because there it looks
like thousands that are in front of me here. Um,
but many of them went out of out of business
during let's say, well early Yeah, there's a reason for
that to happen. I mean, you know, financial fire at
the factory, you know, whatever happened to be. Um, it's
(03:35):
easy to get nostalgic about that brand and think, Okay, well,
I like the way that the style look back then,
and I like what they're doing. How would that brand
have evolved today? What would they be building now? What
type of vehicle would they be building now? And I
know that's not exactly easy to pinpoint, but you can
probably get close, uh a close guess types of vehicles
(03:57):
they would be making. Would it be a sports car company,
Would it be a luxury brand and economy car? Yeah,
it would it be? Yeah, it would it be more
of like a city car service vehicles? Yeah, exactly right.
So you know, when you think about your answer, think
about it that way. And I'll be honest, right now,
I've got a few contenders. I don't even know if
I have one answer for this myself. UM, so feel
(04:18):
free to to, you know, think about several of these,
and you don't have to have an answer right away
because there's a few things I want to talk about first.
We can we can discuss back and forth, but just
kind of mulve that over in your head for the
end that maybe you know, at the end come up
with one that you would like to bring back, you
would like to resurrect. Okay, but before we continue, let
me just say, you know, I'm all about snap decisions,
(04:41):
a shoot from the hip. Well, I think I've got
I've got some contenders in mind right now, but that
is just again I'm flying blind, so I'm not going
to say what they are yet until we know all
the things. You've already made a really good point about
a ripple effect. Uh, but guys, Scott's writings something down.
I am writing something down and I am sealing it
(05:02):
in front of me. I'm so the Ben can't see.
This is like a like a magic like that that
no one can see. You're like a mentalist. Yeah, yeah,
I'm so. I'm writing down at a brand which one
I am I'm guessing okay, and I'm keeping it off
the side. Ben can't see it. And we'll see if
that matches up with what you say at the very end.
But um, what what should we consider? Well, consider all
(05:25):
the okay, let's think about all this. Um, there have
been and I don't even know if those numbers right,
but I would say a thousand uh auto manufacturers from
the United States that are that are defunct. If you
look up the list of defunct automobile manufacturers from the
United States under just the letter A because they're alphabetical,
just the letter A, there's something like a hundred and
(05:46):
fifty car companies that have gone under. Now, some of
these have made one or two cars. You know, they
were they were early vehicles. They're they're the kind of
one off vehicles that that that you don't often think of.
I mean, you don't think of the Able Car Company.
You don't think of Alco or yeah, that's right, the
Arrow Car Company, UM, the Athens Fox Company, you know,
(06:08):
things like that. You don't think about those. But you
do think about a m C. You know, you do
think about, um, the Eagle brand, You do think about
Willie's Overland. Do you think about you know, some of
the bigger ones that were around for decades and then
suddenly went away. And a lot of good reasons for those. Again,
sure yeah, we we know for instance that even now
(06:29):
in the modern day, countries around the world and companies
in those countries are struggling to perfect the art of
making cars and making a profit from selling them. There's
a lot that goes into it. And while when when
you see this list of massive manufacturer casualties, I'm so
(06:51):
glad you pointed it out, Scott, because we came across
this list earlier in the previous episode we did, and
we we both spent a lot of time dig through it,
which is one of the only reasons why I can
name uh while I was like, oh yeah, Alco, because
I remember that one from that episode of the Detroit
Electric Company. Cars. You know, all those strange ones like Checker, Um,
(07:12):
you know the cars that are that you may be
familiar with, even you're like, Checker is one that I
think a lot of people have seen. They've seen what
about the Soto and what about it? Okay, here's here's
a prime example of this. Now you can find lists
of these these car companies all over the place, and
and just so that everybody knows you're you're looking at
some lists right now, because I gave you the information.
You're you're checking stuff out in front of you in
(07:32):
the computer there and um, hopefully getting some ideas of
what Here's my promise. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but
here's my promise. I am only looking at this list.
I pulled up a list of the funks cars. But
uh that I don't think that really affects our our
experiment here because we're gonna see. We're going to see
(07:54):
if if you've guessed correctly or if you're you're steering
me towards this. I'm very into the idea of this
as a magic trick. So so I promise I'm not
going to look at anything else but this list. So
that's okay, because UM, I hit you cold with this,
so you know whatever, what if you dig up now
is fine. But I've had the I've had the luxury,
I guess of having the information ahead of time. So
(08:15):
I have found several different lists of recent or dead,
uh defunct and bankrupt car companies from the United States,
and these I'm kind of keeping this to the United
States because of course we know that there are Australian
companies have gone under their European companies companies. You know,
from all over the world, there are car companies that
have gone under. But I'm keeping this relatively easy and
(08:36):
hanging with the United States here, and I can give
you a list of m and I'm not gonna read
all these by any means, but I'm just gonna hold
this up so you can see it then and I'll
tell our listeners there's uh, this is a list of
defunct car companies just since nineteen sixty. And the list
is a full page long. I don't know how many
you're here, maybe, um would you if you had to guess,
would you say forty maybe forty five something? I would say, yeah,
(08:58):
I would say it's fair little less than fifty. Yeah,
just ballpark, I mean, but some of the names on
here now of course, other's that you know, we we've
talked about in the past with vehicles that just failed,
like the Dale was listed here ninety four. You know,
they never really producing cars, but they were a car
company that that is defunct. They were they were actually
a car company for a short amount of time. UM,
(09:18):
things like um um at Tera Motors. You know what's
recently when under two thousand eleven, we were still early
on our podcast. We were still hopeful that A Tara
was going to come out with that crazy vehicle vean
super high mileage vehicle. Looked like it looked crazy, It
looked a little too good to be true. They were
really building vehicles though at some point. And uh, let's
see some of the others here that you don't think about.
(09:40):
Um Edel, Oh, we talked about Edel, right, and now
that was a separate brand for the Ford Motor Company
and only around for about two years nineteen fifty eight
to nineteen sixty. But they invested a pile of money
into that vehicle, remember, mostly into the the advertising hype
ahead of time. Whish failed to deliver unfortunately. So there's
(10:02):
a lot of these. What about the Gaslight Company from
let's get this, nineteen sixty to nineteen sixty one, there
was a gaslight car company, And I know I have
to look into that. Some of these you've never heard of.
But what about Oh here's Hummer, Oh yeah, Geo. There's
also Plymouth, There's also saturn Um some of the bigger ones.
(10:24):
You know, there's an Oldsmobile. These are big, These are
big companies that are big, big brands. I guess that
went under and you know a lot of times what
happened was and this is every case, but in in
this case in particular, let's say, let's take GM, for example,
and Oldsmobile. I think maybe it's Oldsmobile and Pontiac really
if you want to think about this way, UM, at
(10:47):
one time those brands had their own engines and that
was critical because they weren't sharing across other platforms like
they do so often now in General Motors and other
car companies for for obvious reasons, I mean, for for profitability.
But think about Oldsmobile. They had the four hundred, they
had the four five big block, and Pontiac had their
own um Strato Streak engine which was a two seven
(11:09):
cubicas V eight. But but they weren't sharing that among
other uh makes within General Motors umbrella of car comps
exactly right. But that only lasted for so long because
even in the mid nineteen sixties, UM, they let's just
take the Southgate, California plant for example. In the nineteen sixties,
they were rebadging a lot of these different different vehicles.
(11:32):
And by rebadging, I mean a lot of the parts
were interchangeable. I know, they were slightly different, but they
were running on the same line. Um oftentimes, Buick, Olds
and Piac were all being built on the same assembly line,
and later from that same plant, from that that Southgate plant,
I believe they even added the Cadillac Savills onto that
same line. So they're coming right off the same factory line.
(11:53):
They've got interchangeable parts. Basically, it's badging and maybe a
couple of extra um you know, bells and whistles and
feet us for the Cadillac that didn't come on the
you know, the Pontiac or the Olds of the Buick
Um and you know, among those three there were some
variation as well, but not a whole lot enough that
you could run them down one assembly line and at
the end you could have all three different brands or
(12:14):
marks coming off of that off of that line, and
eventually the fourth the Cadillac UM. So I know, it's
it's strange to think about that, but they said, you know, eventually,
what's the point of running the Pontiac line. You know,
if we're gonna have you know, the same product coming out,
we can we can just concentrate, we can focus our
attention onto other makes or other marks, and uh, and
(12:36):
we don't need Oldsmobile as well, because you know, we've
got other other um brands I guess that cover that
that market or that they don't demographic. Yeah, they're competing.
They become cannibalistic on themselves almost they start competing with
themselves for their own customer base and it becomes problematic. Yeah,
and it's it's strange because we have seen that happen
(12:59):
um multiple old times in in the car industry, right
in the auto industry. Oh yeah, many many times that
they've decided that we're just gonna simply shut down this
this arm of the company because again, it's just cannibalizing
itself and it doesn't make sense. We can we can
focus our attention on that and it will work. Hopefully
we'll retain our customers. You know, there's there's something they're
(13:19):
gonna say that are brand oil. They're just gonna say, hey,
you're not making Panac anymore. I'm not buying General Motors
products anymore. I'm gonna shift completely over to I'm gonna
be a Ford guy. Now, no stop me, stop me
if I'm jumping out. But there are there are a
few other ways that a company could become defunct. That
are in many of these ways, strangely enough, are more
complex than just go and broke. UH. Company could be
(13:42):
sold to another company or acquired right, and that happens.
And sometimes what happens, it's very good for the brand.
But as is sadly in my opinion, too often the
case a larger company acquires a smaller auto manufacturer, UH,
it can be the death knell. I can give you
a prime example of this American Motors Corporation. Now, they
(14:04):
were active from about nineteen fifty four until about nineteen
eighties seven. And here's basically what happened to the American
Motors Corporation. They were they were purchased by Chrysler primarily
because the Lea I. Coca when he was the CEO
of Chrysler back in when it was in the nineteen eighties.
I think um, he decided that he liked the Jeep
division and he wanted to purchase American Motors because Jeep
(14:28):
was part of American Motors at the time. And he
basically did away with everything else except for the Jeep division.
And that's something you just don't think about, is like
all that you know every other UH make I guess
within American Motors was just done away with and the
Jeep was the only one that really hung in there. Yeah,
I mean it is, but that that happens. I mean
there are other examples out there as well. So, UM,
(14:51):
I don't know where do you want to go with this, Ben,
I've got I've got other examples. Think about Tucker. There's
there's a good example, right, Tucker was one that, Um,
I guess it was the lawsuit. Really the Tucker was
shut down by the big boys. Yeah, the security is
an exchange commission that investigated him for stock fraud, remember,
because he was set up. Yeah, he was selling dealerships
and he was selling he was selling what was it?
(15:12):
He was selling stock in the cars when he wasn't
really building the cars yet at that point, although he
kind of was. He was manufact he manufactured what cars?
I think I maintain that Preston Tucker was unjustly accused
of crimes did not commit, and the Big Three conspired.
I'll say it conspired to bring him down. Ben. That's strong,
(15:35):
but that I think that kind of mirrors what we
said in the episode. Didn't wait, Yeah, because we had
a we had a pretty good you know what I'm
gonna just promote this because I think our Preston Tucker
episode was really good. The Tucker four. Yeah, I like
that episode a lot. Now, I know it's three parts,
it's not for everybody, but it I think we really
hit on just about everything uh surrounding that case and
(15:57):
uh in that character, in that time and that vehicle,
and is what made it unique. Well, and with three
whole episodes, we darned well of better. And I'll tell
you I'll tell you though that you can tell that
I already and get him a dander up about that,
because I do believe strongly in that. Another another way
that a car company can be shut down will be
(16:20):
due to entirely external factors right beyond their control. That's
what we're talking about. So like Tucker is a great
I think that one of the most dramatic examples of that.
But a another example of that would be Hummer Hummers
um Hummers demographic. Right, what they were buying was this
thing that was power and it was status and it
(16:43):
worked as long as gas was below a certain thresholds.
When gas prices spiked, that really made things that made
things different for every thirsty vehicle. But Hummer being the
one of the most thirsty was by which I mean,
I'm only saying consumer vehicles, not large service vehicles, which
of course have an entirely different relationship with fuel. But
(17:07):
people who were happy having a hummer at what would
you say, Scott, two dollar gas maybe yeah, maybe even
up to two fifty, maybe up to two fifty, yeah,
but four dollars three fifty, then they begin to rethink
about taking that vehicle up to the cabin in the woods. Right. Um,
you know, it becomes a lot more difficult to fill
a tank for four dollars a gallon when it's I
(17:28):
don't know, I'm gonna ballparktfice been? Is it like a
thirty gallon tank, It's gonna be It's gonna be a
huge tank. To fill a huge tank like that at
four dollars a gallon is a is a much bigger
undertaking than filling a the same sized tank at two fifty.
And a lot of people realize that, UM late in
the early I don't know if I could say that
late in the two thousands, I guess maybe UM for
(17:49):
two thousand seven somewhere in there. But in the early
nineties it wasn't so much an issue. In fact, the
vehicles were bigger in the early nineties, I mean they
progressively got smaller. Uh, they approached two thousand ten and
their ultimate demise. I mean we got to the age three.
It was really like, um, it wasn't closed, but it
was like a big pickup truck. Yeah, it was going
(18:10):
that way, and the whole market was going that way.
We saw a lot of the typically high selling, very
very powerful pickup trucks right in SUVs. We saw a
lot of them, see a dip in sales. Uh. It
might have even touched the F one fifty, which is
like the uh, the king of pickup trucks. R. Yeah, yeah,
(18:33):
I don't know. Do you think you think it would
have it would have hedged in on their on their numbers.
I mean you think it would have, because it takes
would take a lot to knock the fe I don't
I don't think it was significant, but I think they
probably felt a little bit of the of the heat
from the kitchen, you know, probably because it was an
attractive package when it was when when fuel was was
I guess affordable, you know, when it was when it
(18:55):
was in the two dollar range, or maybe even lower
than two dollars because I can remember in the early
nine NS, I want to say that it was probably
in you know, a dollar, you know and change, instead
of being you know, again four dollars as it was
three or four years ago, maybe three years ago. So
that's yeah, that's that's a good point. But also I'm
not saying that Hummer is bad. It's just that they
(19:16):
didn't they were not the right card for that time.
Interesting little light at the end of the tunnel by
way of a tangent, uh, Scott. You know that once
gas prices relaxed a little bit deflated, uh, And we'll
see how long that lasts. But once once that happened,
the sales of those large or more powerful vehicles started
taking right back up. Ah. You know what, that's not
(19:38):
surprising to me. That's surprising to me. We're a fickle bunch,
aren't we. Wouldn't you google something, Yeah, you would think so,
you would think that, you know, you might realize that, yeah,
the prices are going to go back up soon and
you're still gonna be stuck with that giant truck or
suv or whatever. But you know what, some people have
to have a vehicle like that, and I'm st to that.
I know that if you're gonna pull a trailer, you're
(19:59):
gonna pull a boat tour. You need it for farm work,
or you have a large family you have to have
a big vehicle, or some people just do it simply
for safety and they're willing to pay that premium for that.
And I don't blame them one bit. I mean, I
think it's fantastic they're going to do that. But like
for me, I guess I kind of look around and
try to find something that's kind of a compromise. I
suppose you know that's that's that's uh safe, it's efficient,
(20:20):
you know. Sure, I don't want to pay a ton
of money. I don't want to buy something that gets
very low fuel mileage or fuel has low fuel economy. Um.
But um, I think the fuel cost is maybe lower
on the totem pole than some of the other stuff.
I mean, I'm more concerned with safety, I'll be honest. Appearance, performance,
all that stuff really plays into it as well. But
(20:41):
you've also got a factor in your own personal needs.
And if that includes pulling something huge like a you know,
a flatbed trailer with another vehicle on it, you're gonna
have to have a big truck. Yeah, you get is
not gonna come, and then Hummer is a fantastic choice. Really,
I mean, but then again, do you want to pay
that price for fuel for something that you know, brand
(21:01):
new from the factory gets eight miles to the gallon? Oh?
A lot of people don't, and a lot of people didn't,
and that's what happened. So in two thousand and ten
they were gone. So, uh, these are several reasons. I
think we're on the same page about this. That as
some of the more common reasons that a car company
can fold. Now. In other cases, Uh, it can be
(21:21):
due to criminal activity, it can be due to the
low quality of a car. There are a bunch of
other things we haven't named, and I can think of
so many examples that we've talked about over the years
that fit right into criminal activity, other things, you know,
like the fire and the here's one I clicked on
one earlier and I can't find it because I'll be honest,
there's so many uh, defunct car companies that I'm looking
(21:41):
at right now in this list. I mean, if you
haven't looked up the list already, I encourage you to
do so it will will boggle your mind. It's it's huge.
But I clicked on one in the a's and I
don't remember which one it was, but it said that, uh,
you know, it was it promising new car company that
you know, they had a factory fire early on. The
company had been around for about two years. They were
just ready to produce cars, starting to produce cars, and
(22:03):
factory fire destroyed not only the building, but of course
all of the office space and everything along with it,
and the machinery that they used to build the cars. So, um,
you know, again, where do you start over from there?
You can't start over from there. You've just invested your
entire lifetime into this thing. Yeah, and we're talking like
this was one from my I think it was like
nineteen o two or something. And the overhead is so big,
(22:24):
the margins can be so slim. It's it's very very
difficult to grow. Oh absolutely, imagine the just the logistics
of starting your own car cup now, and a lot
of them were pre World War One. It was a
lot easier back then to start something like that, but
it's still required quite a bit of capital. You had
to have quite a bit of money up front. To
buy the machinery, to buy the land, to have the
(22:45):
people that were competent enough to do this with you. Um,
you had to be you know, confident in their their abilities.
You had to be confident that they were good. For
their word was good. Uh, they were going to actually produce. No,
Henry Ford will roll roll over in his grave and
and probably shout at me from somewhere far off when
(23:06):
he hears me say this. But there's a lot of
luck involved too, and to say otherwise, it's true that luck,
luck by itself is never going to be enough. No, no, no,
you have to I have to produce a quality product.
And just here's one example that ben Yeah, just and
this this does encompass other another continent. I mean, I
(23:27):
know we said we're gonna stick to with that with
us cars that are brands only. But just for this example,
I want to tell you by nineteen hundred, Um, remember
when I said that steam powered vehicles were at one
time more popular than the internal combustion empowered And it
makes more sense that we're an understood technology, exactly right.
So by nineteen hundred, there were more than one hundred
and twenty five steam powered car companies in the US
(23:50):
and Europe. Now that's not cars. Steam powered car companies
creating steam powered cars, and one that's between the US
and Europe. So I understand we were talking about US only.
But UM Stanley was basically the loan survivor out of
that whole mix. They were very popular, but they were
also um, you know, very credible. They also had a
(24:12):
good deal of street cred I guess because they were
for a steam powered vehicle in the early night unders.
They were they were reliable. Uh, they did exactly what
they promised. They were fast, they were efficient, they were um,
everything that people wanted. UM. Relatively easy to use if
you consider a steam powered vehicle easy to use, which
they're definitely not. But they were kind of like the
(24:33):
lone survivor out of that and there I know there
are other smaller ones long the way, but that was
the big one. That was the one that remained, and
they hung around basically until um, you know, internal combustion engines,
you know, gasoline powered. I guess, um, the gasoline powered
option just became simply cheaper. It's more cost effective for
a family to buy a gasoline powered vehicle than it
(24:54):
was to run a steam power, because so that's that's
the reasons they went under um. But just I mean
that just gives you a glimpse of how many vehicles
there are, how many car companies there were around, and
how many there have been in the past. And again
look at the list. I would be one to wager
that there's car companies here. Yeah, easily, I would guess.
(25:14):
I mean, it's just a ballpark, but I think that's
about right. I think it's more than a thousand, and
I think if you're okay with it, Scott, first off,
let me say here's a great question. I've still been
thinking about it. Uh. I think it's time for us
to start giving our answers because I know you have
a few contenders too. But before we do, it's time
(25:36):
for word from our sponsor. And we're back Scott, Scott
the amigo. I've got to say, I am, I'm interested.
I am scooting to the edge of my seat because
I gotta know your picks and I wonder if I
wonder if I can guess a few. Is it Is
it disingenuous with me to say that I've got a
(25:56):
few when I asked you to pick one. No, not
at all, because we both know that it's very difficult
to pick one of anything, especially in this kind of question.
So I picked I have a couple. So okay, so
let's say three. If I could bring three, okay, is
that fair? Yeah, okay, you don't even have to go three.
But if you want to go to or whatever that's
going three, I'm taking every st You could even take four, Ben,
(26:18):
I'm that generous man. Yeah, I know, how about this,
I'll say three and my first one. That's maybe a surprise.
I don't know, all right. Dusenberg Dusenberg, Now they were
a high end manufacturer, I mean very high end. Yeah, well, yeah, definitely. Um,
let's see. Duisenberg was around from nineteen thirteen to about
(26:42):
nineteen thirty seven. They were built in Auburn, Indiana, and
they had a couple of different models. They had the
the Duisenberg Model A, they had the Dusenberg Model J,
they had the Model S S J. But they were
an American luxury automobile from the right in the very beginning.
And the problem was this is I guess, a bad
problem to have or not a bad problem to have. Um.
(27:04):
They were too big, too fast, too hard to make.
They were just too expensive overall. I mean, it was
just a difficult vehicle to make because it really did
have a lot of quality. It was a it was
a great big, um beautiful, beautiful coach work on this vehicle.
I'm just just a outstanding car. And I liked them
a lot. I've seen them at um concourse types of
(27:24):
events and I just love the looks of them. Now,
what they would have evolved to, you know, that's the
question I asked you. I think that, of course they
would have you know, I think they would have evolved
along the lines of Rolls Royce. I think that it
would have stuck similar to that, and that they probably
would have gone with um even gone sportier maybe, UM,
so that you know, like Rolls, some of these Rolls
(27:45):
race cars have seven horsepower, They have an incredible amount
of torque. You know, Bentley is like that as well. UM,
probably more so Bentley than Rolls Royce. But um, the
luxury would be more like Rolls Royce or you know,
with a bespoke department. UM. I think that they would
have mirrored that in some way. So so Dusenberg is
probably my first choice as for one to bring back.
(28:05):
All Right, you know what surprises me about that is
that most of our listeners would probably think I would
be more likely to pick that one. This is a
deep cut Scott. Yeah, well done, thank you, thank you.
What's x oh next? Oh you want me to go again?
All right? Uh? Oh boy, I'm gonna go with um.
I'm gonna stay Pontiac pant Yeah, Pontiac. And the reason, well,
(28:30):
I'll tell you first the the general stats I guess
piank was founded in It would defunct in two thousand ten.
So while we were doing this podcast is when this
one went away. And I found that the cars that
Pinanc was putting out towards the end, some of the
last vehicles that they were developing or or releasing, you know,
some of them were actually released already, like the G
(28:52):
eight and uh. You know, of course there's the Solstice
and all that. You know that the word they're out
there as well. But um, I found some of their
their final products to be some of the most exciting
that they had come out with. And uh. And I
think that if they had continued, if they would have
been allowed to uh to continue down that path, UM,
I think it would have been a much more interesting
brand in the next few years that you know, they
(29:14):
had lost some steam, I guess in the early two
thousand's and they just never quite recovered, but they were
starting to and that's when GM sacked the division. Uh see,
that's okay, So confession. Pontiac was also on my list
for a little bit of a different reason and a
nostalgic one. The Pontiac Bonneville made from nineteen fifty seven
(29:36):
two thousand and five. As a kid in my younger days,
I I pushed out one but two Pontiac Bonneville's, and
they were both around the same year. I want to
say the man, Wait, you pushed them? Sorry I'm using
slang drove them? Oh I thought you met you physically
(29:57):
pushed them. I did. I only did have push one once.
That's off the road. That's a big car. Yeah, I
hit I hit some nails in the road. And I
should have known because you've talked about the Bottleville several times.
Oh yeah, and you you're definitely it was great. Yeah
it was. I I wasn't the most popular guy in
(30:17):
high school, I'll be honest with you, but that Bontoville
first one changed my life. Uh. And it and the
interior is huge. It's a very smooth ride. I got
it from my grandfather. It's very much an old man's car,
and no offense to anybody who disagrees, but that that
I believe it was an old man's car. Was comfortable.
(30:38):
It was like I was in a lazy boy. I
was in a little studio apartment made entirely out of
lazy And the engine itself not a joke, you know,
the if you if you pushed it, it would respond
with a surprising amount of power. Oh sure, able to
climb those Tennessee hills right right? Yeah, yeah, you had
(31:00):
to have something like that. You had to have a
big V eight or something that was at least capable
of getting up with steep inclines. So so that's a
great place. It is not the one that I wrote
down on the paper. No, no, I know. I will
see if one last point, though, we start talking about
ripple effects with Pontiac. I do agree that Pontiac overall
would have if they had more of a runway, they
(31:21):
could have done some some really exciting stuff. However, the
Bonneville itself, with the fuel economy that it has, I
think would have had to be radically redesigned or would
have been cut anyway, because they stopped, you know, in
oh five, and Pontiac soldiered on without the Bonneville till
(31:42):
what two thousand ten? You said, Yeah, so this I
think this is a car for another time. But man
is one of my one of my favorite times. Yeah,
I was Scott one time. Uh. I was like it
changed my dating life, you know, I bet because people, oh,
wowice car and uh you know as long as you
(32:02):
let's say, yeah, I got it from my grandfather to
add that, No, no, no, I was just learning how
to how how the dating game goes that. Yeah, yeah,
you don't have to add that extra information, just to
keep it simple. I mean, it wasn't a trans an,
but I always trying. I under I get it, I
get it all right, what do you have next? Okay?
And this is this is maybe this I guess this
(32:23):
will be my last one since I'm I'm gonna limit
myself to three. It maybe another surprise. Um the stuts
and I'll tell you why would say it's it's obscure choice.
I'll tell you why because in nineteen between a nineteen
eleven and nineteen thirty five, that's when the Stuts Motor
Company was active, Um, indian Appolis, Indiana, that's where they
(32:44):
were based. Um. They were America's first sports cars. Uh
so you know they mean the bear Cat of course,
this is the one that raced in Indianapolis early on. Um,
they broke a lot of slant speed records. Uh, they
were a lot of them were converted into street cars.
You could get a studts you know, Bearcat for the street. Um.
They were really low slung. They were Um they had
(33:06):
something like eighty horsepower. I think, Um, they had to
close because of the Great Depression. I mean, the Depression
is the uh, the deciding factory here. That's what shut
them down. And if they had continued to make cars, now,
imagine what Stuts could have become later on. Now I
know that there were I think there were cars that
used the Stufts name later. I believe some some one
(33:28):
off vehicles that they used that, but I didn't. Didn't
Elvis have one, And I'm gonna I think that's I
think I think he did. And there was some weird
story behind that, and it wasn't there like it was
offered to someone else. Um, Oh, shoot, there's a there's
a story there with the stuts. I know, like that's
like late in the nineteen sixties, I believe, um. But anyways,
(33:49):
there's a there's an interesting thought I guess that you know,
or at least to me anyways, that if this, you know,
that this producer of America's first sports cars were still around,
what kind of cars could they be making by now?
If they had they had home honed their craft from
nineteen eleven all the way through, you know, what would
stufts look like right now? Because they would have kept
(34:11):
with the time. So I wonder just what direction they
would have taken. Would they have been exotic, would they
be more like um, would they have developed into more
of like a luxury sports car. I don't know. I
just I can't picture where they would be right now,
but I think I kind of tend to believe that
they would be more on the on the pure sports
car side. Yeah, I think they would be more sports
(34:31):
car like luxury. And I want to say, like, and
this would be interesting too, like imagine if they had
had decided to go like the pure sports car route
like um, like Lotus has you know where it's refined
the weight, you know, keep that down, keep it keep
everything very simple, the engineering very clean, very very crisp um.
Just keep it down to the bare minimum, and it's
the driver's vehicle. I just wonder if Stufts could be
(34:53):
something like that, or if they would have gone maybe
the other side, where it's like, um, you know, an
Aston Martin or something like that, where it's it's refined
and it's it's luxury, but it's still a sports car
underneath all that. Yea, yeah, I wonder. But I thought
that Stunts was an interesting choice, and that's why I
picked it. You know, I am surprised that that choice
really did surprise me. All these choices are. I'm just
(35:15):
glad I'm not the one trying to predict choices here,
because I would have I would have thought so a
little bit differently it were okay, well good, So is
this your final pick? I have to because I did.
Pontiacts specifically for nostalgia of the Bonneville, uh, knowing full
well that the Bonneville would not exist even if Ponti
acted today. All right, well, I'm out of picks. Those
(35:36):
are those are my three? Here we go, the first one,
which you are you already know what I'm gonna say.
Scott and no, you probably do too. And listeners, I'm
sure you know from my earlier soapbox stand I took
in this episode it is absolutely Tucker Auto. Absolutely Tucker.
That's one of my seconds. I feel like it's just
so easy because I stand by it. But let's see
(35:58):
if you get this one. And I think you probably
we did, and I think you might even know why Packard.
M hmm, you wrote Packard, you got it? I am
revealing the card and yes, I I wrote Packard early
in this episode, knowing that Ben has a love for
Packard automobiles in particular. You have sort of a dream
(36:18):
that someday you're gonna buy an old Packard and give
it to your dad. That's a great that's a great thought.
Now I'm not gonna you can't hold you to something
like that, because that's a that's a very grand thing,
to a grand gesture. It's and difficult. It's getting tougher
and tougher every year because they're getting more and more expensive.
I check or or you know they're becoming uh, I
(36:40):
guess the ones that are run down that you know
if you're going to restore it, they're the ones that
you're thinking of a becoming more and more I guess
they're like you know, they're becoming more and more rusted
out and war to employ where you have to ask
if you can save, if you can save the chassis bend.
So now is the time you gotta jump right now,
because it's it's it's optimum right right now would always
be the optimum time, right because the longer the restoration
(37:02):
projects go, the worst they get. The longer the ones
that are restored go, the more valuable they become, right
if you can still buy them. So that makes any
point in time when you're thinking about it the time
to jump, the time to do it. You know. One
thing that's uh one the one thing is funny about this.
First off, Scott, I have to say, I'm honestly impressed.
I thought you would get it, but I thought maybe
(37:23):
you would get it, but you hit the nail on
the head and you remembered the reason why. I will
be honest that in uh, I don't know, you know,
a week or two ago, whenever I was thinking about
this as as a potential, I knew then whatever, if
you only had to choose one, it probably would have
been that one, right. Yeah, Oh, absolutely, Yeah, because it
(37:43):
makes it easier for me to accomplish that. It's a
company that was around for a long time from nineteen
fifty eight. They were based in Detroit, Michigan. Um, they
were again American luxury car. It was. It was just
something that just couldn't hang on past the late nineteen fifties.
Founded by a couple of brothers, just like so many
other car companies. And the thing is that in nineteen
(38:05):
it was purchased by Studebaker. So I know that you
know that move happened. But what happened was it it
kind of alienated the luxury buyers that went along with
Packard because this is now a a packard that's made
by Student Baker. Yeah, it's like it's brand solution. Yeah.
I guess it. It um in a way. I don't
know if you can use the term suffer or not,
(38:27):
but maybe that's that's the way to say. I mean it,
it harmed it. I guess it harsh reputation. It turnished
the reputation of it, and by nifty eight they just
couldn't hang on anymore. They weren't selling enough packards to
be able to make it. If Packard was still around then.
I think it would have been a slightly upmarket luxury brand.
(38:47):
I don't. I think the buy from Student Baker would
still be a lot for them to try to walk past,
you know what I mean? So like if um, if
Kia for some reason boughts Bentley or something, and then
someone else bought Bentley and tried to revive Bentley, right
(39:09):
then what it would be tough for Bentley to walk
back from that? Okay, but that lends this question. Bent
So there's a there's a company that owns uh some
I guess exotic and some luxury brands that a lot
of people wouldn't guess, and that's Volkswagen. Um, they have
Audie Bentley, Lamborghini, Yeah, some of the some of these
(39:30):
really high end vehicles. Now does that tarnish their reputation
and that Volkswagen owns them or does that really not matter?
I mean, it's just the parent company. They're kind of
letting them operate on their own. Yeah, yeah, in them
do their own thing, but they do report back to
Volkswagen a G I guess, you know, or Volkswagen Group Group. Yeah,
Volkswagen Group as as like the parent company. So what
(39:54):
does that do for the reputation. Would that would that
be the same thing as if as if student Baker
had held onto uh Packard. You know what's interesting about
that question? And I like that you phrase it, and
you you picked up where I was going with Bentley
to the the the question here is doesn't matter as
much now as it did then, And it's sort of
(40:15):
difficult for me, at least two to extrapolate where Packard
would be now if it continued, you know, or even
who would own it? What if Packard and student Baker
were ball Well, okay, think about this. Student Baker was
the largest wagon manufacturer in the world. Um, you know
before like this is before the horseless carriage business, so
(40:36):
you know, around nineteen o two, I think is when
they started actually building battery powered cars and you know,
things like that. So they've been in the game a
long long time. They've got an established reputation. It's a
it's a good company. Um. But what was it about,
you know, student Baker buying Packard that led people to think, like,
that's not really the quality that I'm looking for here?
Was it? Because they were a luxury mark and Student
(40:57):
Baker wasn't considered a luxury mark at that time. Maybe
maybe it was because it was the opposite of Packard
was sort of a quality known for its quality, whereas
studive Baker was more so known for its quantity. Yeah,
that could be. And I can see your point there,
all right, So just something to ponder. I guess you
know that does that parent company really tarnished the reputation
(41:19):
of the brands that are there under that umbrella. I
can't believe you. I'm I am impressed that you at
the beginning of the episode said hang on and wrote
down Packers. You know, I'm like a like a Las
Vegas show. Yeah, I should have put it. I should
have suspended it above the studio in a box where
everybody could see it, or at least no one could
see it, right, Yeah, And then I don't know, somehow
(41:43):
I don't know made the box that made the paper
around the box flame up or something like machine. Yeah,
I really need to I need to up my stage presence. Well,
this is a starting point, I guess it is. But done,
I mean that was done. I had actually picked up,
like I said, a couple of weeks ago, and I
was pretty sure um, based on the whole nostalgia thing, right. Uh,
(42:04):
but I'll tell you the Pontiac Bonnefield. That was a
bit of a surprise. But I should have thought of
that one as well. I don't know why Pontiac didn't
come up in my thoughts. Oh you got Pontiac though,
I picked out on my own though. Right. But now
for the same reasons. Uh, well, listeners, now we're going
to throw it to you. Uh what defunct car company
would you like to see brought back? Oh? And you
(42:26):
know what, let's be fair pick up to three. Yeah,
and I'm making an American car company because that's the
game you're playing today. And maybe, who knows, maybe we'll
play this in the future with other other continents. I
guess sure that'd be kind of funny. This is a
fun game to play. I like which cars from behind
the Iron Curtain would you bring to Oh boy? Yeah?
Uh yes, so let us know on Facebook and Twitter.
(42:48):
Check out our website car Stuff Show dot com if
you want to. Uh, here's some of the older episodes
we inevitably refer to at times. And if you want
to write in with your picks you suggest for a
future topic, or hey, just to say hello, look at
this car I saw. We love that when people send
pictures of the weird and notable vehicles they see, Well,
(43:09):
the good news is you can do that right now.
I mean, unless you're driving or something, you can do
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us know what you think. Send an email to podcast
(43:29):
at how stuff works dot com
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car stuff from house Stuff Works dot Com. I'd welcome
to car stuff on Scott I've been and we've got
our superproducer know the plot twist Brown with us as always,
Uh a little I'm interested to see how this one goes.
(00:23):
I was gonna see you might be a little bit nervous.
Safe you're nervous. I'm nervous. You're nervous. I'm feeling. I'm feeling.
I'm empathizing with what you felt the last time we
did this. Yeah, this is only the second time we've
attempted this, and this is I just see the listeners
know what's going on. Uh, this is the second time
we've done this. Last time was with barn Finds right
right that barn find and us just outside of Austin. Yeah. Um,
(00:45):
this is a topic that I am coming in here
with full knowledge of or at least some somehowedge if
I don't want to. I don't want to over over
promote this or anything, but I got some knowledge of
this one. And then you don't even know what we're
gonna talk about to day. No idea, no idea. I
haven't told you the topic I haven't shown you anything,
I haven't shared anything with you. This is just a
(01:06):
cold start for you. So let's see how you handle this.
And I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a question and
we'll see where this leads and we'll see how this
this all plays out here may or may not work. Um.
All right, So I was on vacation recently and I
was hanging out, you know, just relaxing, soaking in some sun.
But what am I going to talk with Ben about
(01:26):
this this upcoming episode? And he's killing me to think, like,
because we've got rules, we got certain rules we can't
we can't apply to this set, to this podect. We do,
we do apply the rules. We can't talk about certain things.
And these are rules that you right away set down
when we right Yeah, he said no alternative fuels, no
(01:48):
flying cars, flying cars, and the other one was autonomous vehicles. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's just because it's not because we hate those,
it's just because those three things in particular seem to
continually have little updates that we have usually covered in
some way before. If you go back through our history,
(02:08):
we have covered those three things, I think pretty extensively
over the past seven years because we try to keep
up to date with the latest of what's going on.
So that's the reason we don't talk about those three things.
And of course flying cars is just because those make
me so angry. Yeah, that's a good point, alight. Alright,
So here's the here's the question for you then, and
(02:30):
this is the first time you're here in this all right.
If you had the power to bring back one defunct
American automaker brand or mark, which one would you choose?
And why? Now this this requires quite a bit of thought.
It's more than you initially think, because you can you
can make a snap decision of sure you can. You
can say, um, you could be you could pick any
(02:53):
brand you want and to say, like, oh, I really
liked um the lassal I would like it if Lasau
would come back right now and build cars, you know,
as they had back in the nineteen twenties whenever. I'll
have to look up the stats on that. But um.
The trick behind this, though, is that you've got to
kind of think about it this way. Let's say that
the car company went out of business in the Great
(03:14):
Depression and a lot of them did, I mean a
lot of these makers that will talk about it. I
don't have exact stats on this because there it looks
like thousands that are in front of me here. Um,
but many of them went out of out of business
during let's say, well early Yeah, there's a reason for
that to happen. I mean, you know, financial fire at
the factory, you know, whatever happened to be. Um, it's
(03:35):
easy to get nostalgic about that brand and think, Okay, well,
I like the way that the style look back then,
and I like what they're doing. How would that brand
have evolved today? What would they be building now? What
type of vehicle would they be building now? And I
know that's not exactly easy to pinpoint, but you can
probably get close, uh a close guess types of vehicles
(03:57):
they would be making. Would it be a sports car company,
Would it be a luxury brand and economy car? Yeah,
it would it be? Yeah, it would it be more
of like a city car service vehicles? Yeah, exactly right.
So you know, when you think about your answer, think
about it that way. And I'll be honest, right now,
I've got a few contenders. I don't even know if
I have one answer for this myself. UM, so feel
(04:18):
free to to, you know, think about several of these,
and you don't have to have an answer right away
because there's a few things I want to talk about first.
We can we can discuss back and forth, but just
kind of mulve that over in your head for the
end that maybe you know, at the end come up
with one that you would like to bring back, you
would like to resurrect. Okay, but before we continue, let
me just say, you know, I'm all about snap decisions,
(04:41):
a shoot from the hip. Well, I think I've got
I've got some contenders in mind right now, but that
is just again I'm flying blind, so I'm not going
to say what they are yet until we know all
the things. You've already made a really good point about
a ripple effect. Uh, but guys, Scott's writings something down.
I am writing something down and I am sealing it
(05:02):
in front of me. I'm so the Ben can't see.
This is like a like a magic like that that
no one can see. You're like a mentalist. Yeah, yeah,
I'm so. I'm writing down at a brand which one
I am I'm guessing okay, and I'm keeping it off
the side. Ben can't see it. And we'll see if
that matches up with what you say at the very end.
But um, what what should we consider? Well, consider all
(05:25):
the okay, let's think about all this. Um, there have
been and I don't even know if those numbers right,
but I would say a thousand uh auto manufacturers from
the United States that are that are defunct. If you
look up the list of defunct automobile manufacturers from the
United States under just the letter A because they're alphabetical,
just the letter A, there's something like a hundred and
(05:46):
fifty car companies that have gone under. Now, some of
these have made one or two cars. You know, they
were they were early vehicles. They're they're the kind of
one off vehicles that that that you don't often think of.
I mean, you don't think of the Able Car Company.
You don't think of Alco or yeah, that's right, the
Arrow Car Company, UM, the Athens Fox Company, you know,
(06:08):
things like that. You don't think about those. But you
do think about a m C. You know, you do
think about, um, the Eagle brand, You do think about
Willie's Overland. Do you think about you know, some of
the bigger ones that were around for decades and then
suddenly went away. And a lot of good reasons for those. Again,
sure yeah, we we know for instance that even now
(06:29):
in the modern day, countries around the world and companies
in those countries are struggling to perfect the art of
making cars and making a profit from selling them. There's
a lot that goes into it. And while when when
you see this list of massive manufacturer casualties, I'm so
(06:51):
glad you pointed it out, Scott, because we came across
this list earlier in the previous episode we did, and
we we both spent a lot of time dig through it,
which is one of the only reasons why I can
name uh while I was like, oh yeah, Alco, because
I remember that one from that episode of the Detroit
Electric Company. Cars. You know, all those strange ones like Checker, Um,
(07:12):
you know the cars that are that you may be
familiar with, even you're like, Checker is one that I
think a lot of people have seen. They've seen what
about the Soto and what about it? Okay, here's here's
a prime example of this. Now you can find lists
of these these car companies all over the place, and
and just so that everybody knows you're you're looking at
some lists right now, because I gave you the information.
You're you're checking stuff out in front of you in
(07:32):
the computer there and um, hopefully getting some ideas of
what Here's my promise. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but
here's my promise. I am only looking at this list.
I pulled up a list of the funks cars. But
uh that I don't think that really affects our our
experiment here because we're gonna see. We're going to see
(07:54):
if if you've guessed correctly or if you're you're steering
me towards this. I'm very into the idea of this
as a magic trick. So so I promise I'm not
going to look at anything else but this list. So
that's okay, because UM, I hit you cold with this,
so you know whatever, what if you dig up now
is fine. But I've had the I've had the luxury,
I guess of having the information ahead of time. So
(08:15):
I have found several different lists of recent or dead,
uh defunct and bankrupt car companies from the United States,
and these I'm kind of keeping this to the United
States because of course we know that there are Australian
companies have gone under their European companies companies. You know,
from all over the world, there are car companies that
have gone under. But I'm keeping this relatively easy and
(08:36):
hanging with the United States here, and I can give
you a list of m and I'm not gonna read
all these by any means, but I'm just gonna hold
this up so you can see it then and I'll
tell our listeners there's uh, this is a list of
defunct car companies just since nineteen sixty. And the list
is a full page long. I don't know how many
you're here, maybe, um would you if you had to guess,
would you say forty maybe forty five something? I would say, yeah,
(08:58):
I would say it's fair little less than fifty. Yeah,
just ballpark, I mean, but some of the names on
here now of course, other's that you know, we we've
talked about in the past with vehicles that just failed,
like the Dale was listed here ninety four. You know,
they never really producing cars, but they were a car
company that that is defunct. They were they were actually
a car company for a short amount of time. UM,
(09:18):
things like um um at Tera Motors. You know what's
recently when under two thousand eleven, we were still early
on our podcast. We were still hopeful that A Tara
was going to come out with that crazy vehicle vean
super high mileage vehicle. Looked like it looked crazy, It
looked a little too good to be true. They were
really building vehicles though at some point. And uh, let's
see some of the others here that you don't think about.
(09:40):
Um Edel, Oh, we talked about Edel, right, and now
that was a separate brand for the Ford Motor Company
and only around for about two years nineteen fifty eight
to nineteen sixty. But they invested a pile of money
into that vehicle, remember, mostly into the the advertising hype
ahead of time. Whish failed to deliver unfortunately. So there's
(10:02):
a lot of these. What about the Gaslight Company from
let's get this, nineteen sixty to nineteen sixty one, there
was a gaslight car company, And I know I have
to look into that. Some of these you've never heard of.
But what about Oh here's Hummer, Oh yeah, Geo. There's
also Plymouth, There's also saturn Um some of the bigger ones.
(10:24):
You know, there's an Oldsmobile. These are big, These are
big companies that are big, big brands. I guess that
went under and you know a lot of times what
happened was and this is every case, but in in
this case in particular, let's say, let's take GM, for example,
and Oldsmobile. I think maybe it's Oldsmobile and Pontiac really
if you want to think about this way, UM, at
(10:47):
one time those brands had their own engines and that
was critical because they weren't sharing across other platforms like
they do so often now in General Motors and other
car companies for for obvious reasons, I mean, for for profitability.
But think about Oldsmobile. They had the four hundred, they
had the four five big block, and Pontiac had their
own um Strato Streak engine which was a two seven
(11:09):
cubicas V eight. But but they weren't sharing that among
other uh makes within General Motors umbrella of car comps
exactly right. But that only lasted for so long because
even in the mid nineteen sixties, UM, they let's just
take the Southgate, California plant for example. In the nineteen sixties,
they were rebadging a lot of these different different vehicles.
(11:32):
And by rebadging, I mean a lot of the parts
were interchangeable. I know, they were slightly different, but they
were running on the same line. Um oftentimes, Buick, Olds
and Piac were all being built on the same assembly line,
and later from that same plant, from that that Southgate plant,
I believe they even added the Cadillac Savills onto that
same line. So they're coming right off the same factory line.
(11:53):
They've got interchangeable parts. Basically, it's badging and maybe a
couple of extra um you know, bells and whistles and
feet us for the Cadillac that didn't come on the
you know, the Pontiac or the Olds of the Buick
Um and you know, among those three there were some
variation as well, but not a whole lot enough that
you could run them down one assembly line and at
the end you could have all three different brands or
(12:14):
marks coming off of that off of that line, and
eventually the fourth the Cadillac UM. So I know, it's
it's strange to think about that, but they said, you know, eventually,
what's the point of running the Pontiac line. You know,
if we're gonna have you know, the same product coming out,
we can we can just concentrate, we can focus our
attention onto other makes or other marks, and uh, and
(12:36):
we don't need Oldsmobile as well, because you know, we've
got other other um brands I guess that cover that
that market or that they don't demographic. Yeah, they're competing.
They become cannibalistic on themselves almost they start competing with
themselves for their own customer base and it becomes problematic. Yeah,
and it's it's strange because we have seen that happen
(12:59):
um multiple old times in in the car industry, right
in the auto industry. Oh yeah, many many times that
they've decided that we're just gonna simply shut down this
this arm of the company because again, it's just cannibalizing
itself and it doesn't make sense. We can we can
focus our attention on that and it will work. Hopefully
we'll retain our customers. You know, there's there's something they're
(13:19):
gonna say that are brand oil. They're just gonna say, hey,
you're not making Panac anymore. I'm not buying General Motors
products anymore. I'm gonna shift completely over to I'm gonna
be a Ford guy. Now, no stop me, stop me
if I'm jumping out. But there are there are a
few other ways that a company could become defunct. That
are in many of these ways, strangely enough, are more
complex than just go and broke. UH. Company could be
(13:42):
sold to another company or acquired right, and that happens.
And sometimes what happens, it's very good for the brand.
But as is sadly in my opinion, too often the
case a larger company acquires a smaller auto manufacturer, UH,
it can be the death knell. I can give you
a prime example of this American Motors Corporation. Now, they
(14:04):
were active from about nineteen fifty four until about nineteen
eighties seven. And here's basically what happened to the American
Motors Corporation. They were they were purchased by Chrysler primarily
because the Lea I. Coca when he was the CEO
of Chrysler back in when it was in the nineteen eighties.
I think um, he decided that he liked the Jeep
division and he wanted to purchase American Motors because Jeep
(14:28):
was part of American Motors at the time. And he
basically did away with everything else except for the Jeep division.
And that's something you just don't think about, is like
all that you know every other UH make I guess
within American Motors was just done away with and the
Jeep was the only one that really hung in there. Yeah,
I mean it is, but that that happens. I mean
there are other examples out there as well. So, UM,
(14:51):
I don't know where do you want to go with this, Ben,
I've got I've got other examples. Think about Tucker. There's
there's a good example, right, Tucker was one that, Um,
I guess it was the lawsuit. Really the Tucker was
shut down by the big boys. Yeah, the security is
an exchange commission that investigated him for stock fraud, remember,
because he was set up. Yeah, he was selling dealerships
and he was selling he was selling what was it?
(15:12):
He was selling stock in the cars when he wasn't
really building the cars yet at that point, although he
kind of was. He was manufact he manufactured what cars?
I think I maintain that Preston Tucker was unjustly accused
of crimes did not commit, and the Big Three conspired.
I'll say it conspired to bring him down. Ben. That's strong,
(15:35):
but that I think that kind of mirrors what we
said in the episode. Didn't wait, Yeah, because we had
a we had a pretty good you know what I'm
gonna just promote this because I think our Preston Tucker
episode was really good. The Tucker four. Yeah, I like
that episode a lot. Now, I know it's three parts,
it's not for everybody, but it I think we really
hit on just about everything uh surrounding that case and
(15:57):
uh in that character, in that time and that vehicle,
and is what made it unique. Well, and with three
whole episodes, we darned well of better. And I'll tell
you I'll tell you though that you can tell that
I already and get him a dander up about that,
because I do believe strongly in that. Another another way
that a car company can be shut down will be
(16:20):
due to entirely external factors right beyond their control. That's
what we're talking about. So like Tucker is a great
I think that one of the most dramatic examples of that.
But a another example of that would be Hummer Hummers
um Hummers demographic. Right, what they were buying was this
thing that was power and it was status and it
(16:43):
worked as long as gas was below a certain thresholds.
When gas prices spiked, that really made things that made
things different for every thirsty vehicle. But Hummer being the
one of the most thirsty was by which I mean,
I'm only saying consumer vehicles, not large service vehicles, which
of course have an entirely different relationship with fuel. But
(17:07):
people who were happy having a hummer at what would
you say, Scott, two dollar gas maybe yeah, maybe even
up to two fifty, maybe up to two fifty, yeah,
but four dollars three fifty, then they begin to rethink
about taking that vehicle up to the cabin in the woods. Right. Um,
you know, it becomes a lot more difficult to fill
a tank for four dollars a gallon when it's I
(17:28):
don't know, I'm gonna ballparktfice been? Is it like a
thirty gallon tank, It's gonna be It's gonna be a
huge tank. To fill a huge tank like that at
four dollars a gallon is a is a much bigger
undertaking than filling a the same sized tank at two fifty.
And a lot of people realize that, UM late in
the early I don't know if I could say that
late in the two thousands, I guess maybe UM for
(17:49):
two thousand seven somewhere in there. But in the early
nineties it wasn't so much an issue. In fact, the
vehicles were bigger in the early nineties, I mean they
progressively got smaller. Uh, they approached two thousand ten and
their ultimate demise. I mean we got to the age three.
It was really like, um, it wasn't closed, but it
was like a big pickup truck. Yeah, it was going
(18:10):
that way, and the whole market was going that way.
We saw a lot of the typically high selling, very
very powerful pickup trucks right in SUVs. We saw a
lot of them, see a dip in sales. Uh. It
might have even touched the F one fifty, which is
like the uh, the king of pickup trucks. R. Yeah, yeah,
(18:33):
I don't know. Do you think you think it would
have it would have hedged in on their on their numbers.
I mean you think it would have, because it takes
would take a lot to knock the fe I don't
I don't think it was significant, but I think they
probably felt a little bit of the of the heat
from the kitchen, you know, probably because it was an
attractive package when it was when when fuel was was
I guess affordable, you know, when it was when it
(18:55):
was in the two dollar range, or maybe even lower
than two dollars because I can remember in the early
nine NS, I want to say that it was probably
in you know, a dollar, you know and change, instead
of being you know, again four dollars as it was
three or four years ago, maybe three years ago. So
that's yeah, that's that's a good point. But also I'm
not saying that Hummer is bad. It's just that they
(19:16):
didn't they were not the right card for that time.
Interesting little light at the end of the tunnel by
way of a tangent, uh, Scott. You know that once
gas prices relaxed a little bit deflated, uh, And we'll
see how long that lasts. But once once that happened,
the sales of those large or more powerful vehicles started
taking right back up. Ah. You know what, that's not
(19:38):
surprising to me. That's surprising to me. We're a fickle bunch,
aren't we. Wouldn't you google something, Yeah, you would think so,
you would think that, you know, you might realize that, yeah,
the prices are going to go back up soon and
you're still gonna be stuck with that giant truck or
suv or whatever. But you know what, some people have
to have a vehicle like that, and I'm st to that.
I know that if you're gonna pull a trailer, you're
(19:59):
gonna pull a boat tour. You need it for farm work,
or you have a large family you have to have
a big vehicle, or some people just do it simply
for safety and they're willing to pay that premium for that.
And I don't blame them one bit. I mean, I
think it's fantastic they're going to do that. But like
for me, I guess I kind of look around and
try to find something that's kind of a compromise. I
suppose you know that's that's that's uh safe, it's efficient,
(20:20):
you know. Sure, I don't want to pay a ton
of money. I don't want to buy something that gets
very low fuel mileage or fuel has low fuel economy. Um.
But um, I think the fuel cost is maybe lower
on the totem pole than some of the other stuff.
I mean, I'm more concerned with safety, I'll be honest. Appearance, performance,
all that stuff really plays into it as well. But
(20:41):
you've also got a factor in your own personal needs.
And if that includes pulling something huge like a you know,
a flatbed trailer with another vehicle on it, you're gonna
have to have a big truck. Yeah, you get is
not gonna come, and then Hummer is a fantastic choice. Really,
I mean, but then again, do you want to pay
that price for fuel for something that you know, brand
(21:01):
new from the factory gets eight miles to the gallon? Oh?
A lot of people don't, and a lot of people didn't,
and that's what happened. So in two thousand and ten
they were gone. So, uh, these are several reasons. I
think we're on the same page about this. That as
some of the more common reasons that a car company
can fold. Now. In other cases, Uh, it can be
(21:21):
due to criminal activity, it can be due to the
low quality of a car. There are a bunch of
other things we haven't named, and I can think of
so many examples that we've talked about over the years
that fit right into criminal activity, other things, you know,
like the fire and the here's one I clicked on
one earlier and I can't find it because I'll be honest,
there's so many uh, defunct car companies that I'm looking
(21:41):
at right now in this list. I mean, if you
haven't looked up the list already, I encourage you to
do so it will will boggle your mind. It's it's huge.
But I clicked on one in the a's and I
don't remember which one it was, but it said that, uh,
you know, it was it promising new car company that
you know, they had a factory fire early on. The
company had been around for about two years. They were
just ready to produce cars, starting to produce cars, and
(22:03):
factory fire destroyed not only the building, but of course
all of the office space and everything along with it,
and the machinery that they used to build the cars. So, um,
you know, again, where do you start over from there?
You can't start over from there. You've just invested your
entire lifetime into this thing. Yeah, and we're talking like
this was one from my I think it was like
nineteen o two or something. And the overhead is so big,
(22:24):
the margins can be so slim. It's it's very very
difficult to grow. Oh absolutely, imagine the just the logistics
of starting your own car cup now, and a lot
of them were pre World War One. It was a
lot easier back then to start something like that, but
it's still required quite a bit of capital. You had
to have quite a bit of money up front. To
buy the machinery, to buy the land, to have the
(22:45):
people that were competent enough to do this with you. Um,
you had to be you know, confident in their their abilities.
You had to be confident that they were good. For
their word was good. Uh, they were going to actually produce. No,
Henry Ford will roll roll over in his grave and
and probably shout at me from somewhere far off when
(23:06):
he hears me say this. But there's a lot of
luck involved too, and to say otherwise, it's true that luck,
luck by itself is never going to be enough. No, no, no,
you have to I have to produce a quality product.
And just here's one example that ben Yeah, just and
this this does encompass other another continent. I mean, I
(23:27):
know we said we're gonna stick to with that with
us cars that are brands only. But just for this example,
I want to tell you by nineteen hundred, Um, remember
when I said that steam powered vehicles were at one
time more popular than the internal combustion empowered And it
makes more sense that we're an understood technology, exactly right.
So by nineteen hundred, there were more than one hundred
and twenty five steam powered car companies in the US
(23:50):
and Europe. Now that's not cars. Steam powered car companies
creating steam powered cars, and one that's between the US
and Europe. So I understand we were talking about US only.
But UM Stanley was basically the loan survivor out of
that whole mix. They were very popular, but they were
also um, you know, very credible. They also had a
(24:12):
good deal of street cred I guess because they were
for a steam powered vehicle in the early night unders.
They were they were reliable. Uh, they did exactly what
they promised. They were fast, they were efficient, they were um,
everything that people wanted. UM. Relatively easy to use if
you consider a steam powered vehicle easy to use, which
they're definitely not. But they were kind of like the
(24:33):
lone survivor out of that and there I know there
are other smaller ones long the way, but that was
the big one. That was the one that remained, and
they hung around basically until um, you know, internal combustion engines,
you know, gasoline powered. I guess, um, the gasoline powered
option just became simply cheaper. It's more cost effective for
a family to buy a gasoline powered vehicle than it
(24:54):
was to run a steam power, because so that's that's
the reasons they went under um. But just I mean
that just gives you a glimpse of how many vehicles
there are, how many car companies there were around, and
how many there have been in the past. And again
look at the list. I would be one to wager
that there's car companies here. Yeah, easily, I would guess.
(25:14):
I mean, it's just a ballpark, but I think that's
about right. I think it's more than a thousand, and
I think if you're okay with it, Scott, first off,
let me say here's a great question. I've still been
thinking about it. Uh. I think it's time for us
to start giving our answers because I know you have
a few contenders too. But before we do, it's time
(25:36):
for word from our sponsor. And we're back Scott, Scott
the amigo. I've got to say, I am, I'm interested.
I am scooting to the edge of my seat because
I gotta know your picks and I wonder if I
wonder if I can guess a few. Is it Is
it disingenuous with me to say that I've got a
(25:56):
few when I asked you to pick one. No, not
at all, because we both know that it's very difficult
to pick one of anything, especially in this kind of question.
So I picked I have a couple. So okay, so
let's say three. If I could bring three, okay, is
that fair? Yeah, okay, you don't even have to go three.
But if you want to go to or whatever that's
going three, I'm taking every st You could even take four, Ben,
(26:18):
I'm that generous man. Yeah, I know, how about this,
I'll say three and my first one. That's maybe a surprise.
I don't know, all right. Dusenberg Dusenberg, Now they were
a high end manufacturer, I mean very high end. Yeah, well, yeah, definitely. Um,
let's see. Duisenberg was around from nineteen thirteen to about
(26:42):
nineteen thirty seven. They were built in Auburn, Indiana, and
they had a couple of different models. They had the
the Duisenberg Model A, they had the Dusenberg Model J,
they had the Model S S J. But they were
an American luxury automobile from the right in the very beginning.
And the problem was this is I guess, a bad
problem to have or not a bad problem to have. Um.
(27:04):
They were too big, too fast, too hard to make.
They were just too expensive overall. I mean, it was
just a difficult vehicle to make because it really did
have a lot of quality. It was a it was
a great big, um beautiful, beautiful coach work on this vehicle.
I'm just just a outstanding car. And I liked them
a lot. I've seen them at um concourse types of
(27:24):
events and I just love the looks of them. Now,
what they would have evolved to, you know, that's the
question I asked you. I think that, of course they
would have you know, I think they would have evolved
along the lines of Rolls Royce. I think that it
would have stuck similar to that, and that they probably
would have gone with um even gone sportier maybe, UM,
so that you know, like Rolls, some of these Rolls
(27:45):
race cars have seven horsepower, They have an incredible amount
of torque. You know, Bentley is like that as well. UM,
probably more so Bentley than Rolls Royce. But um, the
luxury would be more like Rolls Royce or you know,
with a bespoke department. UM. I think that they would
have mirrored that in some way. So so Dusenberg is
probably my first choice as for one to bring back.
(28:05):
All Right, you know what surprises me about that is
that most of our listeners would probably think I would
be more likely to pick that one. This is a
deep cut Scott. Yeah, well done, thank you, thank you.
What's x oh next? Oh you want me to go again?
All right? Uh? Oh boy, I'm gonna go with um.
I'm gonna stay Pontiac pant Yeah, Pontiac. And the reason, well,
(28:30):
I'll tell you first the the general stats I guess
piank was founded in It would defunct in two thousand ten.
So while we were doing this podcast is when this
one went away. And I found that the cars that
Pinanc was putting out towards the end, some of the
last vehicles that they were developing or or releasing, you know,
some of them were actually released already, like the G
(28:52):
eight and uh. You know, of course there's the Solstice
and all that. You know that the word they're out
there as well. But um, I found some of their
their final products to be some of the most exciting
that they had come out with. And uh. And I
think that if they had continued, if they would have
been allowed to uh to continue down that path, UM,
I think it would have been a much more interesting
brand in the next few years that you know, they
(29:14):
had lost some steam, I guess in the early two
thousand's and they just never quite recovered, but they were
starting to and that's when GM sacked the division. Uh see,
that's okay, So confession. Pontiac was also on my list
for a little bit of a different reason and a
nostalgic one. The Pontiac Bonneville made from nineteen fifty seven
(29:36):
two thousand and five. As a kid in my younger days,
I I pushed out one but two Pontiac Bonneville's, and
they were both around the same year. I want to
say the man, Wait, you pushed them? Sorry I'm using
slang drove them? Oh I thought you met you physically
(29:57):
pushed them. I did. I only did have push one once.
That's off the road. That's a big car. Yeah, I
hit I hit some nails in the road. And I
should have known because you've talked about the Bottleville several times.
Oh yeah, and you you're definitely it was great. Yeah
it was. I I wasn't the most popular guy in
(30:17):
high school, I'll be honest with you, but that Bontoville
first one changed my life. Uh. And it and the
interior is huge. It's a very smooth ride. I got
it from my grandfather. It's very much an old man's car,
and no offense to anybody who disagrees, but that that
I believe it was an old man's car. Was comfortable.
(30:38):
It was like I was in a lazy boy. I
was in a little studio apartment made entirely out of
lazy And the engine itself not a joke, you know,
the if you if you pushed it, it would respond
with a surprising amount of power. Oh sure, able to
climb those Tennessee hills right right? Yeah, yeah, you had
(31:00):
to have something like that. You had to have a
big V eight or something that was at least capable
of getting up with steep inclines. So so that's a
great place. It is not the one that I wrote
down on the paper. No, no, I know. I will
see if one last point, though, we start talking about
ripple effects with Pontiac. I do agree that Pontiac overall
would have if they had more of a runway, they
(31:21):
could have done some some really exciting stuff. However, the
Bonneville itself, with the fuel economy that it has, I
think would have had to be radically redesigned or would
have been cut anyway, because they stopped, you know, in
oh five, and Pontiac soldiered on without the Bonneville till
(31:42):
what two thousand ten? You said, Yeah, so this I
think this is a car for another time. But man
is one of my one of my favorite times. Yeah,
I was Scott one time. Uh. I was like it
changed my dating life, you know, I bet because people, oh,
wowice car and uh you know as long as you
(32:02):
let's say, yeah, I got it from my grandfather to
add that, No, no, no, I was just learning how
to how how the dating game goes that. Yeah, yeah,
you don't have to add that extra information, just to
keep it simple. I mean, it wasn't a trans an,
but I always trying. I under I get it, I
get it all right, what do you have next? Okay?
And this is this is maybe this I guess this
(32:23):
will be my last one since I'm I'm gonna limit
myself to three. It maybe another surprise. Um the stuts
and I'll tell you why would say it's it's obscure choice.
I'll tell you why because in nineteen between a nineteen
eleven and nineteen thirty five, that's when the Stuts Motor
Company was active, Um, indian Appolis, Indiana, that's where they
(32:44):
were based. Um. They were America's first sports cars. Uh
so you know they mean the bear Cat of course,
this is the one that raced in Indianapolis early on. Um,
they broke a lot of slant speed records. Uh, they
were a lot of them were converted into street cars.
You could get a studts you know, Bearcat for the street. Um.
They were really low slung. They were Um they had
(33:06):
something like eighty horsepower. I think, Um, they had to
close because of the Great Depression. I mean, the Depression
is the uh, the deciding factory here. That's what shut
them down. And if they had continued to make cars, now,
imagine what Stuts could have become later on. Now I
know that there were I think there were cars that
used the Stufts name later. I believe some some one
(33:28):
off vehicles that they used that, but I didn't. Didn't
Elvis have one, And I'm gonna I think that's I
think I think he did. And there was some weird
story behind that, and it wasn't there like it was
offered to someone else. Um, Oh, shoot, there's a there's
a story there with the stuts. I know, like that's
like late in the nineteen sixties, I believe, um. But anyways,
(33:49):
there's a there's an interesting thought I guess that you know,
or at least to me anyways, that if this, you know,
that this producer of America's first sports cars were still around,
what kind of cars could they be making by now?
If they had they had home honed their craft from
nineteen eleven all the way through, you know, what would
stufts look like right now? Because they would have kept
(34:11):
with the time. So I wonder just what direction they
would have taken. Would they have been exotic, would they
be more like um, would they have developed into more
of like a luxury sports car. I don't know. I
just I can't picture where they would be right now,
but I think I kind of tend to believe that
they would be more on the on the pure sports
car side. Yeah, I think they would be more sports
(34:31):
car like luxury. And I want to say, like, and
this would be interesting too, like imagine if they had
had decided to go like the pure sports car route
like um, like Lotus has you know where it's refined
the weight, you know, keep that down, keep it keep
everything very simple, the engineering very clean, very very crisp um.
Just keep it down to the bare minimum, and it's
the driver's vehicle. I just wonder if Stufts could be
(34:53):
something like that, or if they would have gone maybe
the other side, where it's like, um, you know, an
Aston Martin or something like that, where it's it's refined
and it's it's luxury, but it's still a sports car
underneath all that. Yea, yeah, I wonder. But I thought
that Stunts was an interesting choice, and that's why I
picked it. You know, I am surprised that that choice
really did surprise me. All these choices are. I'm just
(35:15):
glad I'm not the one trying to predict choices here,
because I would have I would have thought so a
little bit differently it were okay, well good, So is
this your final pick? I have to because I did.
Pontiacts specifically for nostalgia of the Bonneville, uh, knowing full
well that the Bonneville would not exist even if Ponti
acted today. All right, well, I'm out of picks. Those
(35:36):
are those are my three? Here we go, the first one,
which you are you already know what I'm gonna say.
Scott and no, you probably do too. And listeners, I'm
sure you know from my earlier soapbox stand I took
in this episode it is absolutely Tucker Auto. Absolutely Tucker.
That's one of my seconds. I feel like it's just
so easy because I stand by it. But let's see
(35:58):
if you get this one. And I think you probably
we did, and I think you might even know why Packard.
M hmm, you wrote Packard, you got it? I am
revealing the card and yes, I I wrote Packard early
in this episode, knowing that Ben has a love for
Packard automobiles in particular. You have sort of a dream
(36:18):
that someday you're gonna buy an old Packard and give
it to your dad. That's a great that's a great thought.
Now I'm not gonna you can't hold you to something
like that, because that's a that's a very grand thing,
to a grand gesture. It's and difficult. It's getting tougher
and tougher every year because they're getting more and more expensive.
I check or or you know they're becoming uh, I
(36:40):
guess the ones that are run down that you know
if you're going to restore it, they're the ones that
you're thinking of a becoming more and more I guess
they're like you know, they're becoming more and more rusted
out and war to employ where you have to ask
if you can save, if you can save the chassis bend.
So now is the time you gotta jump right now,
because it's it's it's optimum right right now would always
be the optimum time, right because the longer the restoration
(37:02):
projects go, the worst they get. The longer the ones
that are restored go, the more valuable they become, right
if you can still buy them. So that makes any
point in time when you're thinking about it the time
to jump, the time to do it. You know. One
thing that's uh one the one thing is funny about this.
First off, Scott, I have to say, I'm honestly impressed.
I thought you would get it, but I thought maybe
(37:23):
you would get it, but you hit the nail on
the head and you remembered the reason why. I will
be honest that in uh, I don't know, you know,
a week or two ago, whenever I was thinking about
this as as a potential, I knew then whatever, if
you only had to choose one, it probably would have
been that one, right. Yeah, Oh, absolutely, Yeah, because it
(37:43):
makes it easier for me to accomplish that. It's a
company that was around for a long time from nineteen
fifty eight. They were based in Detroit, Michigan. Um, they
were again American luxury car. It was. It was just
something that just couldn't hang on past the late nineteen fifties.
Founded by a couple of brothers, just like so many
other car companies. And the thing is that in nineteen
(38:05):
it was purchased by Studebaker. So I know that you
know that move happened. But what happened was it it
kind of alienated the luxury buyers that went along with
Packard because this is now a a packard that's made
by Student Baker. Yeah, it's like it's brand solution. Yeah.
I guess it. It um in a way. I don't
know if you can use the term suffer or not,
(38:27):
but maybe that's that's the way to say. I mean it,
it harmed it. I guess it harsh reputation. It turnished
the reputation of it, and by nifty eight they just
couldn't hang on anymore. They weren't selling enough packards to
be able to make it. If Packard was still around then.
I think it would have been a slightly upmarket luxury brand.
(38:47):
I don't. I think the buy from Student Baker would
still be a lot for them to try to walk past,
you know what I mean? So like if um, if
Kia for some reason boughts Bentley or something, and then
someone else bought Bentley and tried to revive Bentley, right
(39:09):
then what it would be tough for Bentley to walk
back from that? Okay, but that lends this question. Bent
So there's a there's a company that owns uh some
I guess exotic and some luxury brands that a lot
of people wouldn't guess, and that's Volkswagen. Um, they have
Audie Bentley, Lamborghini, Yeah, some of the some of these
(39:30):
really high end vehicles. Now does that tarnish their reputation
and that Volkswagen owns them or does that really not matter?
I mean, it's just the parent company. They're kind of
letting them operate on their own. Yeah, yeah, in them
do their own thing, but they do report back to
Volkswagen a G I guess, you know, or Volkswagen Group Group. Yeah,
Volkswagen Group as as like the parent company. So what
(39:54):
does that do for the reputation. Would that would that
be the same thing as if as if student Baker
had held onto uh Packard. You know what's interesting about
that question? And I like that you phrase it, and
you you picked up where I was going with Bentley
to the the the question here is doesn't matter as
much now as it did then, And it's sort of
(40:15):
difficult for me, at least two to extrapolate where Packard
would be now if it continued, you know, or even
who would own it? What if Packard and student Baker
were ball Well, okay, think about this. Student Baker was
the largest wagon manufacturer in the world. Um, you know
before like this is before the horseless carriage business, so
(40:36):
you know, around nineteen o two, I think is when
they started actually building battery powered cars and you know,
things like that. So they've been in the game a
long long time. They've got an established reputation. It's a
it's a good company. Um. But what was it about,
you know, student Baker buying Packard that led people to think, like,
that's not really the quality that I'm looking for here?
Was it? Because they were a luxury mark and Student
(40:57):
Baker wasn't considered a luxury mark at that time. Maybe
maybe it was because it was the opposite of Packard
was sort of a quality known for its quality, whereas
studive Baker was more so known for its quantity. Yeah,
that could be. And I can see your point there,
all right, So just something to ponder. I guess you
know that does that parent company really tarnished the reputation
(41:19):
of the brands that are there under that umbrella. I
can't believe you. I'm I am impressed that you at
the beginning of the episode said hang on and wrote
down Packers. You know, I'm like a like a Las
Vegas show. Yeah, I should have put it. I should
have suspended it above the studio in a box where
everybody could see it, or at least no one could
see it, right, Yeah, And then I don't know, somehow
(41:43):
I don't know made the box that made the paper
around the box flame up or something like machine. Yeah,
I really need to I need to up my stage presence. Well,
this is a starting point, I guess it is. But done,
I mean that was done. I had actually picked up,
like I said, a couple of weeks ago, and I
was pretty sure um, based on the whole nostalgia thing, right. Uh,
(42:04):
but I'll tell you the Pontiac Bonnefield. That was a
bit of a surprise. But I should have thought of
that one as well. I don't know why Pontiac didn't
come up in my thoughts. Oh you got Pontiac though,
I picked out on my own though. Right. But now
for the same reasons. Uh, well, listeners, now we're going
to throw it to you. Uh what defunct car company
would you like to see brought back? Oh? And you
(42:26):
know what, let's be fair pick up to three. Yeah,
and I'm making an American car company because that's the
game you're playing today. And maybe, who knows, maybe we'll
play this in the future with other other continents. I
guess sure that'd be kind of funny. This is a
fun game to play. I like which cars from behind
the Iron Curtain would you bring to Oh boy? Yeah?
Uh yes, so let us know on Facebook and Twitter.
(42:48):
Check out our website car Stuff Show dot com if
you want to. Uh, here's some of the older episodes
we inevitably refer to at times. And if you want
to write in with your picks you suggest for a
future topic, or hey, just to say hello, look at
this car I saw. We love that when people send
pictures of the weird and notable vehicles they see, Well,
(43:09):
the good news is you can do that right now.
I mean, unless you're driving or something, you can do
that today. Our email addresses our stuff at how stuff
work dot com. For more on this and thousands of
other topics. Is that how stuff works dot com. Let
us know what you think. Send an email to podcast
(43:29):
at how stuff works dot com
CarStuff News
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Ben Bowlin
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