The Long-awaited Kit Car Episode

Since around 2009, Scott and Ben have planned to do a kit car episode. And, finally, they got around to it. Tune in to learn what a kit car is, why you do - or don't - want one, the history of kit cars and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car Stuff from house Stuff Works dot com. I welcome
to car Stuff. I'm Scott Bend and I'm Ben Bully.
Then we've got a topic that has been a long
time coming. It has been a long time coming, Scott.
We have talked on air and off air at Lake

(00:26):
about doing an episode on this topic, and now the
weight is over. We are finally going to do our
very first episode on kit cars. And before we get
into it, I think we owe a couple of people
a note of thanking. I think we do thanks. I mean, yeah,
We've got a couple of listeners. One was I guess

(00:48):
maybe we should start with the most recent. Really, Um,
the most recent was a guy that we mentioned in
our Nuts and Bolts episode and we said we're gonna
get to this quick. But um, his name is Adrian,
and Adrian rode In says uh, and I'm just gonna
parafries for the most of this. It's a long email. UM,
big follower and avid regular listener of your show. UM,

(01:09):
fan of just about anything and everything car related. How
a growing up in the seventies and eighties, I always
had a fun fascination with kit cars from VW Beetle
based kit cars to the Pontiact Fierro and other based
kit cars. It seemed like you could build anything or
you could replicate anything. Back then, the only limit was
your imagination. Nowadays you'll find that that. Um, you'll find

(01:29):
less kits that use b W VW pans and more
that use modern donor cars such as Toyota m R
two's needed Honda Accords like the K one attack car. UM.
The home based kit builders have grown up, and what
many used to refer to as kits are actually being
built and assembled by full fledged builders such as Factory
five Vintage Speedsres, just to name a few. UM. So

(01:52):
he's mentioned that a lot of these machines before they
hit the road, the Department of Motor Vehicles. Uh, they've
they've started to become a lot stricter with the way
they require them to be registered. Uh. He says. For example,
I myself on a replica of a nineteen fifty Porsche's
Speedster by Classic Motor Carriages, and here in my home
state of California, it's registered as a special construction vehicle.

(02:13):
No longer is it legal to register the car based
on the pan because it's no longer a nineteen six
VW beetle Um insurance is another hurdle as their value
is very objective and can sometimes be challenged by the
owner versus the insurer. So there's this this weird you
know thing that happens with the insurance value as well. Um. Lastly,
and this is again the last part of the email.

(02:34):
I find it fascinating how aggressive some car manufacturers are
with protecting their brands, such as Ferrari, versus how passive
other car manufacturers such as Porsche um are in kind
of protecting their brand name. Ferrari goes after every builder
that tries to replicate any of their models like the
Testerosa or the Daytona. Well, Porsche is pretty lenient about
builders that replicate their vintage three, six, five fifty and

(02:56):
nine oh four models. So um, he just says he
didn't recommend, are really recollect hearing that we've done a
kick car podcast in the past, and he's correct, He's
totally correct. You know who else is correct? Our friend
Luke from England. And Luke wrote into us also and
he said, I I've been listening to your podcast a

(03:17):
few months now after finding it and it's lovely every podcast.
Thank you Luke. That's us writing that, not him, the
thank you for Uh. He is from Newcastle pon time
and he thought a podcast on kick cars would be interesting. Yeah,
we had a little back and forth with Luke. Right, Yes, Scott,
you wrote back to Luke because Luke owns his own

(03:37):
kick car, a Robin Hood to Be. Yeah, you check
that out online if you have never seen a Robin
Hood to Be. And I think Robin Hood is one
of the uh the big kick car manufacturers that they
put out a lot of kids every year. Uh, this
one in particular looks like a like a load of
seven design And Luke's car is really really nice looking.
It's a it's a blue and stan us. Um, well

(04:01):
it looks like a load of seven. But again it's
a Robin Hood to Be. But it's a really neat
kit car and he's got a fantastic backdrop to drive
this thing in. I mean it's a you know, the
scenery and the photos that he sent along just absolutely spectacular,
really really pretty and uh, this makes a good segway. Scott.
We'll talk about your response to Luke, which I have

(04:22):
here because you did something that I really appreciated, and
you pointed out that we have done a podcast called
Could I Build My Own Car? That's a deep cut,
my friends, it's from O eight. But that leads us
to the first thing we need to do, which is
defined what a kit car actually is exactly. And I
need to stay this because you know when we did

(04:42):
that episode, we did that on a on on a
building your own car from scratch? That was can I
start with nothing and make my own car? Um? Kit
cars are not one of a kind cars like these
hand built individual vehicles. What they are is it's a
kit that's produced by a factory or shop that's then
sold to somebody to complete, you know, in your own
garage or you know, at some other location a shop somewhere.

(05:04):
Um So, in other words, more than one copy of
this this vehicle exists usually you know, several, I mean hundreds,
if not thousands of the vehicle. UM. So, you know
it's not it's not again, a scratch built vehicle that
is built by you starting with nothing exactly exactly. This
is a something that you order from a factory. It
comes and creates or pieces or however, and were many

(05:27):
different ways as we'll find out and there's a couple
of levels of this thing. Good point, but um, yeah,
it's it's not a one off car, as you say. Yeah,
and the what's interesting here with the kit cars is
that they actually have a long history. This is not,
by any means a new event. Um, and this will
we were doing some research for this, scut uh. This

(05:48):
reminded me of the earlier days of the automotive industry
when it was sort of expected that you might buy
a the basis of a car, like the engine and
maybe the basic chassis your body, and then go to
a coach builder who would customize the rest of it. Yeah,

(06:08):
and we think of that now. Is something that you know,
the only the elite did that that you would take
a you know, the frame of a I don't know
what Bugatti, and you would take it to a coach
builder and you have them create the spectacular coach, you know,
with custom leather stitched interior and you know, all the
chrome and stainless accents that you wanted. Um. Really, honestly,

(06:29):
there was a point in time where you could buy
a I guess, I don't know what they called it,
a cab over for what was not a cab over design.
I'm thinking of a like rolling chassis. Basically an engine,
a driver's seat, and a steering wheel on a on
a frame, and then you had somebody build a body
onto it. It came with wheels. You could do that,
and that's a that's an inexpensive way to get a vehicle. Now,

(06:50):
of course you could get all you know, a lot
of people would would buy these four work vehicles. They
may buy a cab like a pickup truck cab, and
then have them build their own box on the back,
you know, to two specifications whatever. They could do much
cheaper if they did it on their own correct whatever
they needed, right. But you could also buy these things
that had nobody on them at all and take it
to you know, the local carpenter or blacksmith or whoever,

(07:12):
and have them build a body for you. Yeah, or
to um our buddy Aaron Cooper's point, you take it
to your local funeral and furniture. Oh that's right. Yeah.
They the odd combination of robably is where some people
got their pickup trudge beds built. You know what, I
would think that that's not out of the question. So
these kit cars, what we've established that it is a

(07:37):
older phenomenon than some people might expect. These really took
off sort of mid century, mid twenty century, right, and
people would, uh, people would go nuts for kit cars, man,
because you could you could get replicas of vehicles. Ordinarily
you could never afford. Yeah, that we're unattainable because I mean,
let's say that you've got a car that you know,

(08:00):
from the from the factory, from the dealer. I would
cost you in the neighborhood. Let's where I'm talking about now,
No way, no way, Yeah, I mean, how are we gonna, hey,
you and I are gonna afford something like that? Right,
we can't so, um, but let's say we do maybe
have I don't know, this is a lot of money too,
But let's say we have fifty dollars and you want
a reasonable representation of that vehicle in replica form. You

(08:25):
can get something like that and it doesn't have to
be Um, you know, you're going to the you know,
some company that sells you know, like the complete thing
full you know, like here's here's what it costs. Like yeah, yeah, exactly,
We're gonna give you this kit and it's not gonna
cost you maybe fifteen thousand dollars and then you supply
a lot of the other parts that that have to
be there in order for this thing to make it

(08:46):
to the road. Yes, so when the parts that they
supply will be things like the engine block, right, the
transmission maybe maybe not, Maybe it does depend on the type. See, yeah,
you know this is that now, the engine and transmission
you just mentioned. That's kind of a rarity in that,
you know, most of the time when you're buying a kit,
you're gonna buy a kit that has everything except that.

(09:08):
Um oh wait, yes, you're right. I flipped it because
you might buy the body or something or what they
call a donor car. Yes, and the donor car is
critical in a lot of these cases. Now, I think
you got that's because that's the engine comes from the
donor Yeah, we skipped our donor car bit here, and
I think we need to just catch up with us
that oftentimes when you'll buy a kit, you'll need to

(09:28):
buy something called the donor car also. And the donor
car is it could be a Pontiac Vierrero, could be
a Beatle. It could be a lot of cases it
was a beatle and they switched because they're harder to
find now. Um so, now maybe it's a Honda a Chord,
or maybe it's a you know, an older Mustang. Uh.
Corvettes are a popular donor car. You know. One quick
thing I need to mention here. I went to kit

(09:50):
car dot Com. Yeah, that's you know, that's a great
kit car magazine dot Com, I think is what it is.
And um I went to the classified sections and I
looked up a bunch of stuff there, and they've got
all these you know, the classifieds have all these different
categories you can search through, and they have completed kits,
they have partially completed kids, uncompleted kids, engine body, donor cars, tools, miscellaneous,

(10:12):
wanted things like you can sell molds. I went to
the donor cars part of this, right, and I started
looking through the donor cars. And if you were trying
to buy let's say that you didn't really want a
kick car, but you just wanted to buy a Pontiac Fierro,
this is a great place to go. There were so
many Pontiac Fierros that were in really decent shape there
for sale that I think this is like a kind

(10:32):
of a backdoor source for something like this. So if
you want an old Mustang or an old let's say,
a Corvette that's not completely right. You want something that's
you know, drivable, but maybe it needs some cosmetic body work.
And someone said said, just said, I'm gonna sell this
as a donor car for a kick car. But somebody
else could kind of, like I said, a backdoor way
to get in on this this Corvette would be to say,

(10:54):
I'm going to go to the donor section by that
Corvette and not really make it a kick car. I'm
just going to use it as a core vet. I'm
gonna restore that car very clever. Yeah, I guess so.
But I mean the donor cars, they run the entire range.
Here do you do you have like a ballpark on
that Fierro. You know, some of them are around you know,
two thousand dollars up to maybe you know, six thousand dollars.

(11:17):
You know, it depends on the condition they are A
year to make the model. Um, you know the ones
of the V six, I think we're far more desirable
the G T model, So some of those are a
little more pricey. That makes sense. But but again, a
very solid donor car for the kit that you buy.
And you know, that will be specified in the instructions
what you exactly need. Yes, and when we get to

(11:39):
the construction of the kit car, this is see, this
is the one point that I think we did miss
when we said the kit car deal right by the
kick car. You've got the donor car on. They're supplying
with these parts and it's all on you to get
some of this other material. But there is another associated
cost with kick cars, my friend, that does not factor

(12:01):
into just buying a car outright, and that is time.
Oh my gosh, the time which can vary so greatly
from kit to kit, and it depends on if you're
buying a what they call rebody kit, where you're basically
just taking the the shell of a vehicle and put
it on on a donor car vehicle, you know, chassis,
and that's the that's the low end of time, I think. So, yeah,

(12:23):
that's more of the kids that are advertised like, you know,
in one hundred hours you can have this vehicle. Um,
and yeah, I did say one hundred hours for the
low end on these, I mean they can go. The
time estimated to complete some of these goes up into
the thousands of man hours, thousands and that's if you
know what you're doing. That's if you don't mess up.
I'll be I'll be honest with you. This this type project. Um,

(12:46):
if you know anybody that knows anything about cars, a
lot of times if you mentioned kit cars around them,
they raised their eyebrows like I would never even attempt that. Um,
it's a commitment, for sure. It can be difficult. It
can be Uh, it can be very very time can.
I mean a lot of times, you know, these cars
will sit in people's gardges for a long long time, uh,
and they finally just give up on them. That's why

(13:06):
you know in the classified you'll find the partially completed cars,
so many unfinished models that the partially completed section seems
to be you know, the one that has the most
vehicles listed in it. And that's probably for good reason.
But really, thousands of hours, even you know, very competent
professionals mechanics say that, you know, this is a tough
thing to do. If you're not really up for this challenge,

(13:27):
maybe maybe they're you know, I should look at a
different level of this, because there are different levels of
kit cars that you can buy, the different ways you
can purchase a kid yes, great point. So we mentioned
turnkey kit cars earlier. I'm gonna go ahead and say
that these are the easiest types of kit cars to
do because your primary act is going to be buying them. Uh,

(13:48):
they're they're called turn key because wait for it, you
can pay for it and put the key in the
car and drive away. And I'm not a bad deal,
right right, And for some people that's that's not the
same thing of that. This is primarily for people who
want to have a car that is completely different. Yeah,

(14:08):
unattainable in some way. Um, you know, either either money
wise or there just aren't any copies of this thing
out there that they can get that haven't been raised
at LAMA in the past, right, and they don't have
perhaps the um either the financial means or the equipment necessary,
because let's be honest, we're talking we're talking some significant
investment of equipment. If you don't already go yeah, I

(14:30):
know we're jumping all over the plus No, that's okay,
but but really the I wanted to mention about the
tools because you're gonna need and I hate to be
so discouraging this. I don't I really don't. In the
discouraging we're informing people exactly. I don't. I don't want
to be discouraging in any way, because I think somebody
should try this if they feel like they want to,
because it's something, it's a good it's a good lesson.
You got a tool breakdown. I not a tool breakdown.

(14:52):
It's just that I think that people should be prepared
to purchase a lot of tools. Now. I know, if
you have a great tool set at home, that's that's
a good starting point. But I think when you're building
a car, you're gonna find along the way that you've
got a a lot of extra needs that you normally
wouldn't think that you would have, you know, just for
general your general tool set um like you may need
an impact gun, or you may need a wheel polar

(15:14):
you may need, you know, a timing light or a
ball joint press or things like that along the way.
Small things, but they add up over time. And you
know that your your competency with those hand tools and
with those other tools that that plays into this as well.
I mean, you've got to have a little bit of
mechanical know how to start something like this, and I
think once you're done, of course, you're gonna be that

(15:35):
master mechanic, but you're gonna be pretty good at what
you do. You're gonna have a lot of confidence exactly.
You will have been through the fire. It's a baptism
by fire, for sure. There's another There's another thing though,
a little half step though. If you don't want the
whole turnkey experience, but you're not quite comfortable yet to
go for the crates, then one thing you could consider

(15:56):
is getting a used kit car. This requires a great
deal of research because it is there's no way around it.
There's no shortcut to it is a case by case basis.
If I were to buy a kick car, I would say,
you have to go look at the vehicle itself. You
have to know, um, it's it's pedigree Unfortunately is not.

(16:20):
It doesn't count as much as it would for the
pedigree of you know, like a well owned used car
that's not a kick car. Sure, yeah, because it all
depends on how well that kit was put together, how
you know, how much craftsmanship was involved in the in
the build process. And if somebody cut corners on something
that they shouldn't have, you know, that could be as
dangerous as something that's safety related. I mean it could

(16:41):
be you know, welding on the chassis. Um, you've got
to pay attention to all of that stuff when you're
when you're buying a kick car. And you mentioned earlier
that you know, this is really a mine field of problems.
I mean, if you're buying a used kick car, um,
really really do your your your homework and and you know,
do your due diligence and go out and check out
the car. Maybe you have it checked out by a mechanic,

(17:02):
even if you normally don't do something like that, you
look at it on your own. Really have somebody given
once over with you know, Mike, you know, magnifying glass, Um,
you know, make sure that all those wells on the
chassis or solid that you know, the the engine and
trans are lined up correctly, and that you know everything
is shifting correctly, and um, you know the glass fits
right so there's no water leaks. Um, there's all these

(17:23):
different things you have to really consider when you're buying
a kick car, partially assembled kick car, if you're doing
it yourself, you know, of course that's all up to you.
And again that goes back to you know, the kit
you know, all these different levels I mean, these can
go from You can buy a book of plans. You know,
it's like, you know, four pages long or whatever, and
it tells you, all right, here's your shopping list to

(17:44):
go out and get this, this and this, and then
here's how you're gonna put it together and cut these
to this length and weld this to that and you
know that's that's the extreme basic version of this. Then
you can buy a kit, which is the crates that
we mentioned, you know, where everything comes to you and
you just have to find a way to put it
all together. Oftentimes, Yeah, it's as simple as that. Yeah,
right with with oftentimes with a lot of modification to
you know, some of that stuff to make it fit,

(18:05):
because you'll find some surprises along the way. I guarantee it.
And you should, by the way, get all of the
extra pieces you need. I I read somewhere down to
every last nuton bolt from the supplier. If you can't
the same people who made the kick, Yes, that's a
that's a that's very good advice because if you go
somewhere else and you're gonna have to modify something down

(18:25):
the line order to make that work, and you might
run into a domino effect where in the modifications that
you made to one aspect of the card room, one
part of the build have ramifications and just to ripple
out because because you wanted to use some stuff you
already had that didn't really match. Then Uh, it could
it could spell trouble down the road. This is I mean,

(18:48):
this is not impossible. It's just an investment of time
and as we know, prior planning prevents poor results. I'm
gonna mention Luke's email here just one more time, because
he went through something very similar to this. Um. The
guy that he bought the car from was an engineer
and it took him five years to to build it
to the point where where Luke picked it up. Um,

(19:08):
but he gave it up. He gave up the process
because he was building to something that they have over
there that's called in Europe, that's called the U the
s v A or single vehicle approval, which is the
road worthy test that a government agency runs to make
sure that the cars are safe to drive on public roads. UM.
So due to this long build that this guy had,
this five years, you know, he's building to this sv

(19:29):
A standard. Uh. They changed over from s v A
to I V a in the interim, which is the
individual Vehicle Approval, which is a much harder test to
pass UM and a lot of the bolts. Uh, the
way he fitted things together, we're gonna be unpassable with
the new road laws. Uh. And that's why the guy
sold the car. He said, you know this is just
too much. I can't I can't handle going back and
changing everything everything, every bolt I put in the car.

(19:52):
You know, the strength has to be a different strength.
And and you know you may think that while you
can probably make this pass right, well, get this. I mean,
this is how tough this test is. This is something
like a It's an eight hour test that you have
to go through and when you go to like uh,
what would be the equivalent here of the d m V,
like the Department Motor Vehicles, But you have a roadworthy
test that that you you go for and that you

(20:15):
have to prove everything has built because this is an
amateur built vehicle. So he had to prove that everything
was built to spec UM. Again, an eight hour test,
everything is checked and they make sure that the right
strength bolt is used in every application. And if you
can't see that bolt for whatever reason, it's blocked from
from the inspector's view. You have to be able to

(20:36):
provide a photograph of that bolt in its location that's
clear enough for them to see that that bolt is
the spec strength that they require. And um, if there's
no VOTO available, you have to tear down the vehicle
to that point so that they can see that bolt.
And uh this and it's expensive test. It's um a
five pound test and if you want to come back,

(20:56):
it's it's ninety it's ninety pounds to retest. So every
time you go back it's a ninety pounds, so you
better have it right the first time. UM, but that's expensive.
That's a lot of a lot of effort that goes
into this. I mean these these uh these I guess
there's two levels of I v A compliance And because
of this amateur build um that that he's got, you know,

(21:17):
this this kit car that comes under this special vehicle
or it's called the basic UM I v A compliance,
which is like an amateur built or a left hand
drive cars are sometimes subject to this. A normal level
I v A compliance I guess is most cars, most
cars that fit the category, you know, the ones that
are just your typical road cars in Europe, so they

(21:38):
have a slightly less strict um compliance that they have
to reach. And this is, uh, this is a very
good point because it's something that some people may feel
a little insecure about it. It It has an extra layer
of uncertainty at it. And that's this idea that would
be absolutely brutal. Man. Can you imagine spending eight hundred

(22:00):
plus hours building your own kit car only to find
that it is not street legal. This happens, um, of course,
in is a possibility in many countries. Germany has uh
the same sort of thing. Uh. Anything that can go
over um very small like six kilometers an hour or something.

(22:21):
Anything that can I know it's under ten has to
have a a sort of either an operating license what's
called an e C t G permission or a technical inspection,
very much like the one you mentioned in the United
Kings SUS test. And in the United States it even
go gets a little bit weirder because this country has

(22:45):
so many individual states that the laws go state by state.
I mean, if you go across the state line, it's
completely different. Uh. If you know, let's say we're here
in Georgia and we go over to we move over
to Tennessee, and we're gonna license our car there. They
may have a completely different set of rules for kit
cars or much are bill cars, um and and you know,
it's it's often a lot easier than what we we

(23:05):
heard of there in the I v A and the S.
That's very very strict. But they do have road worthy
tests and and and um, you know, rules and procedures
that you have to adhere to in order to to
make it pass. It does that be road worthy? But
it is going to be a lot of reading and
speaking of books and reading. Yeah, And I am so

(23:26):
excited about this and and normally we don't say we're
super excited about about one of our one of our picks.
I mean, but I'm really really excited about this one.
And you'll find out in just a moment. And we're
talking about Audible. Audible dot com that is our sponsor.
They make audio books, audio books that we can listen
to while we're out driving around town doing whatever we're doing,

(23:47):
you know, road trips, whatever. This one, I tell you,
I'm so excited when I saw this one pop up
on the list that it's available. What is it? Stephen
King's Christine is available on audiobook. Oh finally, yeah, I know,
and this is so cool. Now, this is it. Now.
People will probably remember this from the film and novel, um,
but this is a much more in depth version. And

(24:10):
I read the reviews on this and I listened to
the narration, just the sample already. I haven't download the
whole thing, but I promise you I'm going to. This
is so cool. It's nineteen hours and thirty two minutes long.
It is a novel, and it's it's really good. Now
you know Stephen King's writing, so it's it's terrifying to
begin with, right, Um, But it's I guess a lot

(24:30):
of people that were on the site, you know, they
had reviewed this. One said they watched the movie and
they were really kind of underwhelmed by it. But I
tell you, I liked the movie. I thought it was
kind of cool. I was younger at the time, so
you know, it was interesting to me. But I guess
maybe it's an adult that'd find a little corner or
what maybe of course, but you know, it's John Carpenter film,

(24:50):
so they had had good credentials, right, And I saw
some clips recently, very cool stuff. But they say that
this book or even the audio a version of it
goes far beyond what what happens in the movie. And
and this is a much more in depth story. Of course,
you know, you have a lot of backstory with this.
The really cool thing about this to a lot of

(25:11):
people was that it goes more into the the backstory
on the previous owner of Christine, which is a really
creepy beginning to this thing. Now it's about the about
seventeen year old Arnie Cunningham and how he falls in
love with Christine. And Christine is not a person. Christine
is a nineteen fifty eight Plymouth fury and what ends

(25:34):
up being a gorgeous, gorgeous car, really beautiful car. But
but unfortunately this is also a haunted car. Um. I
know it sounds a little corny, but Christine the novel Christine,
I tell you it's it's scary. It's a scary story.
It is scary, you know what it Maybe I'm gonna
go so far and say it's not for kids. No,

(25:55):
I don't think it is. There's a lot of you know,
course language in this as well. But then the narrator
this thing adds a lot to it. Um so that
you know, as you the voice that everybody will hear
when they download this book if they download this book. Um,
and the narrator gets top marks in this one as well,
so he really adds to the experience of of this

(26:15):
the scary novel. Now, you know, I love a good
horror story, and I am taking a trip in a
little while, so this might be right up my alley. Uh.
But we should add for anybody else who's taking road
trip or a jaunt around the town for errands, that
this audio book could be yours for free. All you

(26:38):
have to do is go to audible podcast dot com
slash car stuff, let him know we sent you, and
you can download a free audio book of your choice.
It doesn't even have to be Christine now, but it
should be, because I'll tell you I'm I'm totally hooked
on this now. I just you know, just before we
came in here, I was kind of searching around for

(26:58):
what I was gonna recommend this one. I'm really excited
about it. I I truly am. I think uh, I
think our listeners would find this one exciting, at least
our our listeners above a certain age, because you know,
it's kind of it was an R rated movie I think,
and and the book follows along that same line, so
you know, use good judgment on that. Yeah, we did
a little bit of c O A if you will,
and you said there's some language, there's some violence, but

(27:19):
let me tell you, it's so cool. It's it's so cool.
It's really a good story. And uh, and I just
watching Arnie's descent into madness and and this car and everything.
I mean, the the images that you'll get in your
mind are just it's it's an amazing book. Yeah. When
I this might be kind of dumb Scott, but when
I first read Christine, I was actually a kid and

(27:41):
I was too young to drive. And then I thought, wow,
maybe I can find a haunted car. And uh, which
we've done a podcast on, by the way, we have
done a podcast on a haunted cars. Um, and we
should go back because I apologize, man, I interrupted you.
I just got so excited when we're talking about we
were talking different levels and you know, like the Book

(28:01):
of Plans is where you know one thing that you
can get. You can get a kit with all the
crates and everything. Um, you mentioned a turnkey car, and
there's also something called an untrimmed turnkey car that you
can get from a lot of companies, and that's with uh,
you know where it's missing, like lights and gauges and
you know, wheels and tires and things like that, so
that you know it's it's a it's a vehicle that's

(28:22):
pretty much functional. You just need to add these details
specifically how you want to make it your own, like
the interior, you know, that type of thing through. And
then there's another one that um, I think a lot
of companies offer this and it's a it's called a
roller and you can get a roller car from a
lot of these different kick car manufacturers that they assemble
almost all of the car less the drive line, so

(28:42):
that it does not have the engine and transmission, but
it has everything else in place, and you're just waiting
for whatever whatever type of engine and trans you want
to put it into the car. And I think a
lot of people opt for this option. It's a it's
a it's a relatively inexpensive way to get a kick
car completely built and ready to go. And then you know,
if you can find an engine source somewhere else, you know,

(29:02):
there's some kind of really killer combination that you want
to put in this thing, you know, a corvette engine
and trans or whatever. Um, you know, then you're free
to do that. I mean, as long as you can
weld and get that thing in there, you can modify
it to work, um or you know, they they set
it up for you ahead of time so that it works. Hum.
A roller car is really a good option for a
lot of people. Yeah, And I think an unstrimmed turn
key car is a great option to for someone who says,

(29:24):
you know, I feel like I'm I've got my competency
in some of these things, but I'm not quite ready
for the moment when I open those crates. And it's
so weird to go through some of these forums, Scott
and see people with these tales of of woe man
and these uh these uh tales of hard warm triumphs.

(29:48):
I mean, a kick car really sounds like such an
amazing thing to do. If I have the time, I
would do it. But I feel like if I purchased
the kick car now right sure that it would take
me more than two years based on my you know,
based on the time I could put into it and
the stuff that I would need to learn, it would

(30:10):
take more than two years. And you know what, I
would think that two years would be about average. I
think a lot of people, you know, buy these things
and they get to the part where you know it's
it's nearly done, and then it just sits under a
tarp for a long time. I think that happens a
lot of times. And you'll find I mean again, if
you go to the classified sections of Kit Car Magazine,
you'll find unfinished kit cars are partially completed kits um galore.

(30:33):
I mean, they're all over the place, and you know
you can find them relatively cheap, but you know, what
are you buying there? Because you know these have already
been modified in some way put together. There's a lot
of like, you know, body work that goes into these
that you don't really think about ahead of time. As well.
How competent are you at at body work? You know,
I'm not at all really um, but you know there's
also the risk that you know, okay, here's a good example.

(30:54):
We we talked about the long build time on the
on the Robin hood to be that Luke purchased um
five years ahead of time. Then Luke bought the car
right so there's probably another couple of years after that
that you know, the thing is finally on the road
in that time. Now, Luke is lucky that, you know,
Robin Hood happens to be a company that's you know,
in it for the long haul. Um. A lot of

(31:15):
times these companies will go out of business, and then
there's the risk that you know, let's say you need
a part that didn't come with the kid, you know
that you just purchased from somebody. How are you going
to find you know, uh, I don't know a kid
from a apart from fiber Fab Incorporated that was you know,
manufactured back in four How many of those do you
think are out there? Um, you know the answer is

(31:36):
not very many. And how are you going to find
a windshield for your Mantha mirage? That's that type of thing.
You know. These are just examples off the top of
my head. I know that there's sources for all this stuff,
but um, you know, and also imagine doing this, you know,
ahead of the Internet, before you know you had access
to all these different things. It's pretty much a local thing,
you know, like a word of mouth. You're trying to
find something through a shop or trying to call around

(31:58):
and find find parts from across the country and then
have it shipped, you know, via the US Postal Service
or or however you got that. Um. It's just there's
a there's a whole spider web of trouble that can happen.
But it can also be an extremely extremely rewarding situation too,
because now only you've built this thing from scratch, you've
you've held every nut and bold in your hand, and

(32:20):
you know every bit of that car. You know how
to fix everything that breaks. You know where there may
be problems, where they're you know where things are solid. Um,
there's there's really something very satisfying to doing something like this,
which to me outweighs the potential cons. I mean, if
you can if you can get this going and you
can stick with it, you make yourself a schedule, agree

(32:44):
with yourself about how much time you're gonna spend on
it right, and commit to that, and you can get
all the way through and then fix all the problems
that are gonna pop up and good things will happen
to I know we're making it sound like it's this
harrowing experience, but they're really good moments, and the best
one is going to be the first time you start
that car that you built and you drive it around

(33:05):
and every everybody else what are they doing? They're going
to the car lots. Yeah, isn't that cool? So this
can be the highest highs and the lowest lows really,
um and everything in between, because I mean a sense
of satisfaction that you have, you know, of driving a
car that you built from scratch, you know, from a
kid rather um, and everybody else is in their Honda
Cord or Honda Civic or you know they're they're four

(33:26):
D f one fifty or whatever. Um. You just gotta
feel really good about something like that that you know
you can you can handle anything that this car, you know,
sends your way, any trouble. Yeah, you can even be
a little smug when it comes to your own car. Uh.
And you've earned it now. Uh. One thing we should
go back to Scott We mentioned in Adrian's email which

(33:46):
we read earlier, wherein he asked a really good question.
He says, why are some brands so protective? Like why
are some warts so protective of their wealth, of their badges,
their icon of Like why is Poorscho cool with kick cars?
Why does what was it? Ferrari? Yeah, Ferrari it's very
very tight with their with their branding. Now, I I, well,

(34:07):
I don't have a I don't have an exact answer
why some companies are so so strict about this and
others are lenient on it. Um, But I can't tell
you that. I found some information from a company called
Pocket Classics, and Pocket Classics makes um almost like bigger
than go kart size, but they're they're smaller than full
car size replicas of automobiles. And they make you know,

(34:29):
these Ferrari California models. Oh, I'm sorry, they just call
it the California Models. They don't call it Ferrari um,
so they don't they don't. They they're specific about not
um using the Ferrari name, right, And uh, there's a
couple other models they have. They have a Porsche model,
but they don't call it that. They call it the
Speedster um. You know things like that, right, So, just
no no names for the companies themselves, exactly, So the

(34:53):
Aston Martin isn't called the Aston Martins d fibers exactly
something like that. Right now, They've got a kind of
an interesting branding disclaimer that they include with their brochure.
And now if you choose to to put a Ferrari
decal on your California model. Uh, Pocket Classic, that's your
own business. They don't do it from They don't do

(35:13):
it from the from the factory that way though. Okay,
So for branding, what they say is are just read
it from here. Our vehicles are miniature recreations of some
of the world's most famous cars. We are not connected
in any way with Ferrari, a C, Jaguar, Sittron, or
asked to Martin. These vehicles are in no way endorsed
by any of the manufacturers, have no commercial relationship with

(35:33):
those companies, and are designed as tributes only. Um, we
don't imply that any Pocket Classic car vehicle is the
product of endorsed by whereas any association whatsoever with any
other manufacturer. So they're saying, you know that we're gonna
badge that we're gonna call this to California. It's gonna
look exactly like a Ferrari California, a small version. Um,

(35:54):
it's not gonna be branded Ferrari in any way. It's
our California model. You just take with it and do
what you want to do. Well, I have I have
a little bit of an answer here that I think
can dovetail on yours and maybe build up our response
to Adrian's excellent question. And that is the primary difference
between these kick cars and between this company's smaller cars

(36:17):
is that the Kick cars are going to be seen
on the road and to the untrained eye, they could
be mistaken for, you know, a Ferrari or something. And
we earlier have touched on the concept of what's called
brand dilution, so people who have heard our previous podcast
know that carmakers themselves have occasionally run into trouble when

(36:39):
they make a car that dilutes their brand in some way.
Most often this happens when there's really high class car
just for the swells, like, for instance, if um, if
Rolls Royce came out with a brand new Phantom that
was fifteen thousand dollars, a lot of Rolls Royce's normal
customer base would be lived to be outraged at that. However,

(37:04):
you can buy a Rolls Royce Kid for your Chrysler
three hundred and it looks exactly like a Rolls Royce UM,
but it's a body kit that you you know, rebody
your Chrysler three hundred, and the kit may cost fifteen
thou dollars. So you you have your Donor three Chrysler
three hundred. You add this kit that looks like a
Rolls Royce or Bentley or whatever you want to you know,
add on to it's usually a big luxury vehicle, of course,

(37:25):
and uh, again is that brand illusian? I guess it is,
because there's another see what seems like a Rolls Royce
on the road that's really not a Rolls. I mean,
people that look up close would be able to determine that.
But the you know, I guess the experts, but the
untrained eye again wouldn't be able to determine that. Now,
you bring up a good point because dimensions play a

(37:46):
lot into this, and that you know a lot of
people will look at a a Fierro that's been made
into a Lamborghini because that's a big convert. They was
a big time conversion a long time ago. Is that
if Fierro would be made into a Lamborghini Couon Touch
or a Diablo. And the problem was some of these
kids didn't require you to stretch the frame so that
there was an appropriate wheelbase, and what you get ended

(38:08):
up with was a bunch of really squat um uh
kind of off looking lamp any kutash is on the road,
and people could spot those quickly and to certain determine
that that is a that's a kit car. However, now
there's some that are you know, and even back then
if you stretch them, you know, eleven or twelve inches
or whatever the requirement was for certain kids, you've got

(38:30):
a very realistic looking kit car that you didn't know
was a Faro until you opened the Lamborghini doors and
it's suddenly it's you know, a GM product inside, and
oh yeah, it's got that little tiny V six in
the back end. Um or you know, maybe in some
cases they upgraded it to a V eight of some kind.
But you know, you had no idea that it was
a Fiaro until again you you got up a lot

(38:52):
closer and looked at it. Because you know, people would
buy the appropriate badges, they get authentic um. You know,
they go far so far as to get authentic Lamborghini
glass put in these things, and um from you know,
for a lot of people from you know, ten feet away,
you wouldn't know the difference between an authentic version and
a kick car version unless the authentic version kick car
version we're racing. That is, Yeah, that's the thing. Now. Also,

(39:15):
you know, if you if you're gonna have a kick car,
this is one. This is one my own, my own
pet peeves. I guess, okay, go for it. Let's say
that you have a Lamborghini kick car and you stick
with the you know, the V six zero engine that's
in the back of those things to begin with. You know, Okay,
so I didn't go for V A, just kept the
V say exactly, and I guess that happens. I mean
I think it does. Um, what's the point of that, really?

(39:37):
I mean, it seems like you would you would just
kind of up the anti a little bit and say, like,
I'm just gonna convert this over at least to a
V eight something with a little bit more power, because
how embarrassing is that going to be If you're on
the you know, the line of traffic and you know
suddenly this, uh, this, this Honda CRX next to me
is a lot faster than my Lamborghini Countas, I'm gonna
feel like a fool. Right, So there's a lot of

(40:00):
a lot of levels of this that I think people
need to think about before they get into it. You know.
Now I'm on the same page with your Scott, because
it seems to me that if you get that close
to this conversion, if you're if you're shooting for this, um,
what's the fancy word for it, very similitude, right, Um,

(40:20):
If you're shooting for that almost thereness um, then I
don't think you should stop at eight and a half yards.
If you've already made the leap and you've got the body,
I think you should convert to a V six to
V eight. Now that's just that's just one point. Another
important point that we need to make here is that
we are not implying that this is a style over

(40:42):
substance situation. Um. It can be in some cases, but
it really depends on what you want out of this vehicle.
Once you have it, you can't, especially if you're willing
to put in the time. It's going to be an
immensely instructive learning experience. One UM. Two. Yes, most let's
be honest, most people probably are going to think you

(41:06):
are actually driving a Cobra. Yeah. Sure, And that's good point.
You know a lot of the Cobras that you see,
most of them are kick cars. Really, I mean it's
pretty rare when you'll find an authentic real Cobra out
on the road. I mean those things that are half
a million dollars plus. Yeah, have you seen one? A
real one? Only you know shows and auctions and things
like that. But never I don't. I don't think I've
ever seen one on the road. If I have, you know,

(41:27):
I can't spot it from a kit card because the
kit cars are so good now for that that type
of because everybody seems to be doing that. One of
my favorite vehicles that we've listed ever, I mean, I
think we've done our top ten favorite cars or something.
Lotus eleven. The Lotus eleven is is a Westfield makes
a Lotus eleven kit car that is fantastic, Ben And

(41:47):
you know, to get a real Lotus eleven, you're talking
about a car that has probably has like Lama race
history or you know, some type of history and it's
past a real one and you're gonna pay again half
a million dollars or something like that. But if you
get a you know, Westfield's Love and kit and these
things are released in very low numbers, you know, that
type of vehicle, But um, I don't know, it seems
like just a very attainable way to get something like that.

(42:11):
Um that you know, it's it's a very authentic British
sports car. You know, it runs with it has different
running gear, it has you know, an MG twelve seventy
five engine, I think, and you know that's more than
enough power for the size and make of this car.
But it's authentic in the way it looks. It's authentic
in the the interior package. Um, you know it's been
I guess tested, improven. You know, the the chassis and

(42:32):
you know the suspension and everything. Um, they're well, they're
very very well done in a lot of cases. And
you know, if you have the factory building even better
in most cases, you know. I mean you can always
improve on things yourself as well, but um, you know,
have the factory building for you and then you just
have a Lotus new Lotus leven delivered to your door.
How cool would that be? See, I think that would

(42:53):
be magnificent and I think it would be worth it
as well. Now we have to look at the other
side of the equation. Maybe there are coumtash owners, to
take the earlier example, who looked down on the people
who have made a kit car. Well I think they would. Yeah,
I think because they have the original, they're the authentic

(43:13):
real thing, that's the real deal. Yeah. But for some people,
like like with my Lotus eleven example or the Kuntash example. Um,
some cars and and you know, some respect either either
money you know is a concern or um just you know,
be able to locate one because you know they're so
old and there's so few available and they're busy in pieces. Um.
This is really maybe for some people, the only way

(43:35):
to get a Cobra Daytona coup you know, to go
to you know e r A and get you know,
a replica built you know for you know, in that
case eight dollars or whatever it happens to be. They
sound expensive, but you know it beats a half a million. Yes,
and again now I know I'm harping on this man,
but I mean we do work for a website called

(43:56):
how Stuff Works. Uh, this is such a great learning
opportunity on if if I have my brothers, if I
could choose between you know, infinite or excuse me, let's
be a little more realistic. Millions of dollars, right or
millions of hours of free time? I think that I
would end up taking the kit car route just because

(44:17):
I would learn more. You know, it's so uh, people
deserve to do what they want with with their income, right,
and not everybody has enough free time to do a
kit car. But if you have the opportunity, then what
you're also going to be getting is an experience and
you can't really put a price on that. Yeah, this
would be an amazing project for somebody that you know

(44:37):
they do have a lot of free time, um, or
they have you know, like a father's son or father
daughter or mother son, you know, any combination whatever you want,
grandfather's son. Um, this would be a a ton of
fund for somebody to do it, to take on you know,
maybe even if it's a kit that happens over two years.
You know, we're gonna build this this summer and next summer,
and by the third summer it will be ready for
the road. That's a great deal. Yeah, something like that,

(44:59):
you know, with if have a realistic plan in mind,
not saying like I'm gonna get this done by the
end of the month, um, because that's really unrealistic in
a lot of these cases. Um. But you know, I
think it's a great project. And we don't mean to
discourage anybody from doing this by any means. Just know
what you're getting into. In fact, I would almost encourage
it because it's such a great experience to do something
like this. I mean, just modifying any car is a

(45:21):
great experience if you if you take it to the
next level and you build a car even better. Yeah, hey, Scott,
is that a list of some popular kit car models? Yeah,
you know, I've got a list, And I mean you'll
find just a ton of these out there. I mean,
of course there's a lot of Lamborghinis and Ferrari's, but
they're not Badge Ferrari really, UM, Porsche Cobra's GT forties,

(45:42):
UM exoskeleton cars like the the aerial adam Um. You
remember we talked about how that is not a street
legal car unless you receive it as a kit car
and build it yourself. But there's there's a strange little
thing about that. There's a there's a loophole in the
law which also applies in some other places here, which
is one of the reasons that something's uh came as

(46:05):
kit cars in the kit car craze, Uh, it would
be either not street legal or will be taxed differently
if you bought the whole thing, But if you buy
the pieces and a symbol the yourselves yourself, you save
a little money dodging the taxman, such as the case
with the Ariel Adam. And there's a lot of classic
vehicles like old Jaguars like the x K one twenty. Um,

(46:28):
a lot of MG cars like the t D model,
those are popular. The old doom buggies from the nineteen
seventies and sixties, those are still popular. Then a lot
of people have those. Um they're trite kits for for motorcycles. Um,
Cheetah cars you know, which is like a continuation of
of the original race car, which is really cool. Fine,
So like they had the race car, they built it
for a while, they stopped manufacturing it, and then a

(46:51):
company took over and started building authentic Cheetah cars which
are really cool. You take a look at those if
you get a chance. Really fast vipers, yeah, Humby lookalikes. Um,
there's a lot of those out there. Rolls, Royce Bentley cars,
Art Deco ra cars are big. They're very expensive if
you want to get one of the Art Deco cars,
but um, they're they're out there oh, and of course

(47:12):
I think the last one I want to mention is
race car replicas. You can buy a replica race car
that's a tract day car, because some people build these
for street use and other people build kit cars for
track day use, and you know, strictly track use. And
some of those projects are really really cool. Um. But
you know, like the one seat type cars with the
bubble canopies and things, those are really really fun. Um.

(47:34):
But again that's just strictly track use, not a street
use car. So do we have we have one more thing? Maybe? Maybe?
So I mentioned just a few minutes ago about e
R A replicas, right, and I don't know if anybody
pronounces his error replicas, but I think it's the R
A replicas. UM. But they have a lot of different

(47:55):
vehicles now, they have Cobra and GT forty replicas, the
g T forty replicas in particular, or what I'm talking
about here, and this is a USA company, that company
based in Connecticut. UM, you pay a deposit. Now these
are the base price. Now the standard kid is around
and that's the standard kit. So that gives the an
idea of the level of this type of vehicle. It's

(48:16):
a really really well done kit. UM. Now these replicas
you you can pay a deposit. You can do these
in different payment methods, so you know, you don't have
to come up with all of this money right up front,
like maybe six thousand dollars to hold the vehicle, you know,
just the kit, so that uh, they say that we're
gonna lock this price in for you until you're ready
to build it. UM. Then it it takes about I

(48:37):
think it takes them about six weeks to build a
kit from start to finish, about four months to completely
complete the car, like everything done. So if they build
it, it it takes about six weeks and then expect about
four months to totally finish everything. UM. The next step
would be the payment about which is required once the
build starts, so that you know they've got you know,
in good faith that they're you're going to continue with

(48:58):
us and you're paying for their labor real um. Yeah.
And then the final payment UM is like again the
total upon delivery the vehicle to you. But just to
give an idea, if you buy a kit from them,
the replica kit, you know, the g T forty, here's
what you supply ben. Now this is you get this
FOLL nine kit. And and what's not included is the engine,

(49:26):
the transaxle, the rack, compinion steering, the brakes, the front
and rear coil over suspension, the wheels and tires, the windshield,
the head, the you know, the handbrake lever, the exhaust system.
It sounds like there's not a whole lot there, but
really there's a lot there, I'll tell you. I mean
there's there's fifty nine thou dollars worth of material they're
under the body. Um and it's a lot of work.

(49:47):
This will give you an idea of just how extensive
it is to build something like this. I mean, it's
it's a price the endeavor. Um Again, you can they
say you can expect two to to build your own
kit if you know what you're doing. That doesn't include
paint and body work that you have to do along
with it. Um Again, you'll find out that, you know,
if you don't know how to put a windshield in
a car, which not a whole lot of people do,

(50:09):
that's something you're probably gonna have to farm out to
somebody else. So you're gonna have to have somebody come
in and teach you how to do it. In your
own garage or you're gonna have to really learn quick
because you don't want to mess it up on your
you know, your sixty one of the broken windshield delivery guys.
I mean, you're probably gonna have somebody build a build
an engine for you. So that's gonna be another ten
thousand dollars, you know, something that's worthy of of the
g T forty body really, because again you're not gonna

(50:30):
want to have something awful in there exactly. You're not
gonna have like you know, I'm not gonna name any
names any type of engine or car or you know
transaxle that you know somebody has completely gone through and
built for you to be able to stand all that
horse power. So that's gonna be expensive. And you know,
even if you install it yourself, it's still gonna be
you know, five grand or something to go through that

(50:51):
because you'll want quality parts the entire way all of
this stuff, I mean, even the wheels and tires. There's
probably another two thousand dollars, three thousand dollars. It's things
are going to be measured in thousand, all our bills
and uh and you know this is a e R
A is a very reputable company, been around a long time.
They build a lot of great cars. And we're not
doing a commercial for them or anything. I just want
to say that, you know, that's a that's the kind
of a top level kit car manufacturer. UM. And they

(51:15):
have all those different levels that we talked about, you know,
the turnkey car, the roller car, the kit car UM.
All these different levels you can purchase, and it's kind
of up to you where the point is that you
want to kind of jump on this project. And at
this point, we would also like to know what you
decide to do kit car wise. Man, it would be

(51:36):
so cool to us if we could get a letter
from someone describing their kit car the way that Luke
and Adrian sent to us. Send a letter to us
and thank you guys again. It would be Um, it
would be excellent if somebody was mid way through building it.
We would love to check that out. And Uh, let's
see what else. Well, I've got one more little thing

(51:57):
I want to mention here. And let's ay there's this
really great article. Uh. They came out a long time ago.
You can find it online easily. It's called Create Expectations
Building Westfield's LOADUS a leven replica. It's by Peter Egan
and it's from the October nine three Road and Track
magazine issue. And uh it details the the build of
a car by the by the Road and Tracks staff

(52:19):
and how they unloaded the crates by hand. You know,
one night it was like a Friday night. Everybody stayed
late helped unload this thing built it. I don't remember
exactly how long it took, but it was a quick
build by all these guys there. I mean, it was
a big, big team effort. It wasn't one person by
any means. But it was just a um, really concise article.
And what to expect was something like this and and uh,

(52:41):
I don't know, it's it's a great article. So again,
just search create Expectations. That's with the C create c
R A T E Expectations and you find it. It's
a it's a good read, and it's a it's a pun.
It's a pun on great expectations. You gotta like that.
This is who getting the joke. Okay, so we are
going to head out, guys. We hope you enjoyed our

(53:03):
episode on kit cars. Scott. I feel like we could
do some really strong episodes just on specific car I've yet,
so I'm surrounded with notes right now. Yes, stuff that
I didn't get to that I meant to. So, you know,
if we didn't answer all of Luke's questions and Adrian's questions,
I think we did, but you know, trying to get

(53:24):
so much information out there, maybe it's more more material
for another Nuts and Bulk episode. Yeah, perhaps it is.
We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed
making this podcast. So as always, thanks for our super producer,
Noel Scott. Thank you for doing you another episode with
me likewise, Oh yeah, sure, my pleasure, and thank you

(53:45):
to you guys for listening. In the meantime, you can
check us out on Facebook, you can drop us a
line on Twitter, or you can send us an email
directly at car Stuff at Discovery dot com. For more
on this and thousands of other topics is at how
stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think,

(54:07):
send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot com.
M