April 23, 2015 • 37 mins
Can McLaren really build an affordable high-performance vehicle? Listen in to learn more about the McLaren 570S.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car Stuff from house Stuff Works dot com. I welcome
to car Stuff on Scott and I Am. Then we
are here with No. Uh what's the hoost thing named
for today? Oh? Man, I don't know what what you're
calling him? You know what? Let's just call him No.
(00:24):
Five seventy Brown. Yeah, like it. There's a little lot
of the notes from the significance of today's episode. Yeah, so, so,
just if if I could do a little uh segue,
a little pitching real quick? Yeah, okay, So Scott and listeners,
you have chosen to either host or listen to car
(00:45):
Stuff because you are cut above so many other casual
car fans. You get it, you know what I mean.
You understand the thrill of a of a of a
high performance exotic vehicle. You understand the quiet, moved exclusivity
of a luxury car, but find Corinthian leather beneath your butt. Yes, yes, exactly. Uh.
(01:09):
But you may also be a person who is responsible morally,
ethically fiscally. You may say, well, I didn't become a
multimillionaire by paying multimillions of dollars for a bunch of cars.
You know, and no offense. J If you're listening, Uh,
this is this may just be the car for you.
(01:31):
What we're talking about today is a bargain, right, it
is comparatively. It's it's a bargain comparatively. And that's the
way that this thing is marketed. And this is kind
of funny that, you know, all these stories that have
come out recently about the h the all new McLaren
five seventy s, which is our topic today, they all
seem to say roughly the same thing. It's they call
it the more affordable McLaren, and I understand are you
(01:55):
know they leave out the more part. They just say
the affordable Claren. And that's a little bit puzzling to me.
I'll talk about that in a while. I've got m
S r p s of of all of McLaren's products,
by the way, we can talk about. But this is
a car that comes in at about a hundred and
eighty five thousand dollars and they're saying that that is
the affordable McLaren. And I know what you're thinking. You're
(02:16):
probably thinking, no, there's there's no that's still more than
my house costs. Uh, there's there's no way I can
do that. But in the world of people that are
buying McLaren's sports cars, that's a bargain, right yeah, and
it is it. It's being marketed as McClaren's uh, entry
level vehicle, right. So it's got some good stats, you know,
(02:38):
it's got some great stats, honestly, five sixty two horsepower,
two hundred four miles per hour to seater sports car. Um.
It also has, of course the McLaren name. Um, and
that's huge. Then that is that is huge. So when
you and I were first looking into this, and we
should be clear that the five seventy s is not
(03:01):
technically out yet, it's been revealed, uh, and it is
supposed to start shipping, so people are already ordering. Yeah,
because at the end of this year you should be
able to order one from McLaren and have it shipped
to you. Uh, you know wherever you happen to be.
I mean, they're even for sale here in the United States. UM.
I don't know any regions that have been excluded from
this vehicle yet. I'm sure all that stuff is gonna
(03:22):
come out in the wash pretty soon. Um. But there's
also another vehicle that we're gonna talk about that's gonna
be available at the same time that maybe even a
better deal. But we'll we'll get to that too. Well, yeah,
we'll get there when we'll get there in due time.
But Scott, okay, So if we've got this this number,
this price point of a hundred eighty four, what was
a D four thousand, thousand nine, So we're gonna say
(03:45):
a hundred okay, So if we've got that price, uh,
then there are two questions that immediately spring to mind. First,
how does this compare to other prices of McLaren autos?
And then second what do you get for the money?
All right? So we're talking about current product available from McLaren, right.
I went to their site and I looked up all
the different models that they offer, and then when I
(04:07):
got the the m s RP for each one, and
they start, I mean, the the most expensive one is
one that we've talked about on this show before, the
McLaren P One. An incredible vehicle, amazing car, but it
will cost you one point four million dollars at this
point and US as US dollars, that's that's one point
four million dollars of money, all right, So if you
(04:29):
want to go even a step higher. I mean, I
think you already have to own a McLaren P one
to get something called the McLaren P one GTR, which
I believe is the track version of the car, and
that's about three point zero six million dollars. So that's
a very very high end vehicle. But that's again for
a very exclusive group of owners. UM. So if you
go down from the P one, you know, you're kind
(04:50):
of going down through the ranks. I guess if you
want to say that, even about McLaren, it's tough to
say one is less than the other one. But um,
the six LT which stands for long tail UM, that
is the track version of the six fifty S that
we'll talk about next. Uh, that costs you about about
three hundred and eighty six thousand dollars. The six fifty S,
which s stands for spider in this case UM, is
(05:11):
about two hundred and eighty two thousand, six hundred twenty
five dollars. Now that that that one, in particular, the
six fifty S Spider, that's the one that we saw
at the Caffeine and Exotic Show. We did a video
on that one, and beautiful vehicle. I mean, we saw
it was last fall, I think it was. It was
orange and color. Yeah, and you can check out that
video on YouTube right now. As a matter of fact,
(05:32):
unless you're driving so nearly a three hundred thousand dollar car,
right and it's beautiful. I mean, it's a great looking car. Uh,
but three hundred thousand dollars that's a lot of money. Um,
the six fifty s coope, which is roughly about the
same prices about two sixty seven nine, and then the
next one in line, so we're dropping down from two
hundred and fifty seven thousand all the way down to
one and eighty five thousand for the five seventy s.
(05:54):
So I can see why they would say that this
is a bargain compared to the rest of their product line.
And that's what we have to think about. You have
to think about in in relation to the rest of
the product line. And one thing that you know, you
and I talked about this off air outside of here.
I was trying to think of other manufacturers that are
doing something similar and and I'll explain why this is
(06:15):
unusual for them to do something like Right, yeah, we're
we're gonna have to talk about the precedence. Yea. So
so think about this, what if there was a what
if What if Corvette started making the Corvette and initially
the Corvette was priced at three thousand dollars and they
started making versions of the Corvette that were maybe a
little bit less powered, and they started and you know,
they started going backwards in production. So like, instead of
(06:36):
the way they do it now, where they make them
more and more powerful and more and more exclusive and
more and more expensive as well, McLaren is doing kind
of the opposite. They're bringing it down. They're making uh,
they're making world class sports cars, I mean supercars really,
but they are. They're bringing the prices down. They're making
it more and more affordable to people. And as they
get lower and lower in their in their model offerings
(06:59):
like us, you know what they're what they're going to
allow you to buy. I suppose you know the road cars. Um,
it seems like they're going the opposite direction other manufacturers
are going with their top end sports cars. And and
the only even the closest example I can think of
to this, and it's not even really close now that
I think about it, because there wasn't a progression of
(07:20):
vehicles after this. But Porsche did something like this back
in the in the nineteen nineties, the mid nineteen nineties
with the um with Boxer. Yeah, yeah, this this car
came out. What what was the price when it came out?
When it came out, it was around thirty five thousand dollars. Now,
that was unheard of to be able to buy a
a brand new portion from the factory at the time.
(07:40):
In thirty five thousand dollars. It was an entry level portion. Yeah,
and and before I know that, there's another example looming
here that will come up with. But we we need
to take a second to talk about what's called brand delution,
which our early like listeners, you've probably heard us talk
to about this before, especially if you're a long time
fan of car stuff. So Porsche takes an enormous risk
(08:06):
with the Boxer here when they do this, because what
the part of the reason that people are buying things
like a Porsche at that time, part of the reason
people are buying more high end UH luxury vehicles as
well as performance vehicles is because of the exclusivity the
entry point. So is it some and this happens um
(08:29):
weirdly enough? I I don't remember if we did this analogy,
we first talked about it um or this comparison. But
weirdly enough, this kind of thing has happened in the
world of fashion too, and I think we have mentioned that,
you know, somebody, um there's some very high end fashioned
brand that is worn by like aristocrats and celebrities and
(08:50):
stuff like that, and then all of a sudden, the
regular Joe Schmo's, Ben Bolan's and Scott Benjamin's of the
world are rocking it and it becomes less interest. Yeah,
you know what, I can think of one brand that
that happened to in my lifetime. I guess is that
did that happen? I mean I think it did. And
I don't know if that's really like a celebrity brand
or anything like that. I know, it's a funny thing
(09:11):
to talk about, you know, the clothing, the angle on
this whole thing, you know, when we're talking about cars.
But I mean, think about now, how many times you've
seen like a Polo T shirt, you know, like with
the giant Polo logo on the front or whatever that
you know, you see it in the discount rack at
TJ Max or something, you know where in the past
you would have to go to a special section in
the in your local mall where it was gonna be
(09:33):
seventy five dollars for that T shirt. Um, I know
that some of that stuff is knockoffs. I get it,
and you know, but that's not the case with the cars.
These are from the manufacturer. They're saying, we're gonna offer
what we're called the entry level Porsche, which is the Boxer,
and we're going to offer it at a price that's,
you know, reasonably. We think it's reasonable for what you get.
And you get, you know, the the the brand name,
(09:55):
you get some of the features that are in some
of the higher end models, but not all of the cultures. Um,
you get the you know, I guess the bragging rights
to say that, you know, I've owned a Porsche, you
know whatever, there's some kind of pride or yes, some
some chest puffery about that that it can go on
with that, right. But but what they didn't do is
they didn't follow it up with a with a a U,
(10:16):
a make or a model that was even cheaper than that,
because that's kind of what McLaren is doing. And when
I say cheaper, I mean less expensive, I don't mean
quality wise because they are very careful to point out here.
And um, you know, one of the one of the
articles that we read, um had someone who was the
McLaren product manager, name is Donna Falconer, and she's talking
(10:38):
about the five seventy s in particular, and she says, um,
you know, it's it's the most attainable and usable McLaren
to date. But also we want to point out that
there's been no um, no compromise in this, in this
in the whole brand DNA thing, you know for McLaren
that you know, this is definitely a McLaren and has
McLaren d NA, and the driving experience is absolutely phenomenal
(11:00):
in this car. You're gonna love it. But you're gonna
be able to get into this uh this driver's seat
for a much more affordable price than let's say, three
thou dollars. You're gonna get there for just about half
of that, right Yeah. And and of course, as you
as you alluded to, this is not the end of
their game here. But uh, before we go on to
that part, we should say that some people that this
(11:23):
has been this has been divisive, you know. Um. Now
there's the boxer was a success. Yeah it was, but
they got a lot of criticism. They got a lot
of criticism by saying, you are essentially deluding the brand.
You're making Porsche not Porsche anymore, you're selling out kind
of yeah, I guess so. And and you know, the
same argument can be made when they say we're gonna
we're gonna start automating the Ferrari line, We're gonna make
(11:46):
more Ferraris. We're instead of making you know, seventy five
of these things a year by hand, where we meticulously
piece everything together, we're gonna make four thousand of them
and distribute them and sell them. And people say, well,
that's that's taking away from the brand exclusivity, is it,
that's taken away from Ferrari. So this this kind of bet,
while it can be well, it cannot have enormous rewards
(12:07):
both for possible customers and for the company, It can
also have consequences for the company. It can. But you know,
we're talking about let's let's just step aside from this
conversation we've had to this point right here. Okay, okay,
so let's let's take a look at this like brand
new right now, Okay, this is still a car that
that is cast it will cost you one dred and
(12:27):
eighty five thousand dollars. That's not a typical sports car.
I mean it's not, Um, it's the extraordinary. It's the
it's the extra typical. I don't know why, how what
the right term would be extraordinary extraordinary car? Um? You know,
so so you know, one a thousand dollars. I mean
to say that that's affordable, it's more affordable than the
(12:47):
previous version. I get that, But to say it's affordable,
I don't know if that's really being all that honest.
And I know a lot of these uh, these people
are kind of you know, laughing about it. They're saying,
I think car and Driver said it's it's almost afford
that's how they put it. And you know, other other
you know, um people that have written about it already
have said, well you could do that, or you could
get eight you know, well equipped Master. Yeah. Yeah, I
(13:09):
mean that's a good point, is that, you know you
could buy eight or nine or ten other sports cars
in some cases. And uh, there's I heard a great
line which was it's less unaffordable. I get it. But
but think about this though, like let's say that when
the you know, the specialty versions of the Corvette come out, um,
and you know, their their priced ballpark one hundred thousand dollars.
(13:30):
You know, maybe even a little bit more. If we're
talking to z L one, it might be a hundred thousand,
hundred forty thousand or whatever it is. That two people
when they see that one hundred thousand dollar mark, a
lot of them say that's it. I'm out, it's it's
unaffordable at that point. But for a McLaren, I think
that somebody is in the market to buy McLaren that
sees one eighty five, they might think, well, that's a
bargain for McLaren because in the past it would have
(13:51):
had to spend one point four million dollars to get
the one that I wanted um or the name that
I wanted. Now I can spend you know, a fraction
of that and and get something that, uh, something that
would be a good vehicle that you would you would
be okay with driving. You would be so proud to
own something like that. I mean you really would, because
that's a that's a name that has it's steeped in
racing history. The road cars are fantastic their phenomenal road cars.
(14:15):
And you know that the road cars haven't been around
for that long, I think since about nineteen eighty nine.
But the brand itself, if you want to go back
to the founder, uh, you know, Bruce McLaren, it goes
back to nineteen sixty three, and that name has carries
such cashe that I think that the people in the
sports car world, you know, the the the supercar world
even highly respect that name. And I think that, you know,
(14:36):
even if you show up in a five seventy s
that's a D five thousand, they're still going to respect you.
The so called baby McLaren that comes from top Gear.
Now you know, you know that this vehicle has already
has already made some people. Uh, has already been a
bit divisive, is a better way to say it. Because
even on even on top Gear. Uh, we've got let's see,
(15:01):
we've got Sam Philip saying that it leaves him a
little cold, he's disappointed with it. But we've got Tom
Ford saying that he he likes it better than the
sixty s which I at half the price. Yeah. I
don't know about that man, honestly, but U but let's
let's talk about what you get with the vehicle. Sure, yeah, yeah,
(15:22):
I mean there's a there's a lot of feature you
mentioned just a couple of things here already. But but
the engine itself, so, I mean, take a look at
the design. I mean, you can look at the photos
of this thing online. It's it's uh, I don't know.
When I saw it, I initially thought, well, that looks
an awful lot like the six fifty s Coop that
we saw or the sixty Spider rather that we saw
at the Caffeine and Exotics. But when you start to
really look at the details, it's a it's a very
(15:44):
different vehicle. I mean, they've really gone over it with
a fine tooth comb. So and they've used something that
they call layering design, which will I'll get to. But
the basics of this car or that it's a twin
turbo three point eight leader V eight engine of course,
is mid mounted re will drive, has a carbon fiber chassis.
It's got that really cool carbon fiber tub design called
the mono cell, and I think this is called the
(16:04):
mono cell to in this one. That whole tub by
the way, you know, where the driver sits. It's an
F one style tub. On eighty pounds is all that
thing weighs. So this is a very lightweight vehicle. I
think the total weight for the car is something like
so less than three thousand pounds for this car, and
it's a pretty big vehicle. Um, you said five horsepower,
(16:27):
that's four hundred and forty three pound feet of torque
um two hundred four mile per hour top speed. That's
an incredible top set. And zero to sixty comes in
just three point two seconds. Now if you want to
go zero to one hundred, which I think a lot
of drivers would six point three seconds. That's extremely fast,
very very fast. So um. You know, one thing is
(16:47):
that you know would think it would be a lot
of carbon fiber at that price, but a lot of
the body panels are made of aluminum, and I think
that's one of the ways that they've been cutting costs. Yeah,
and that that goes into Um, I mean, there's there's
a lend of carbon fiber and aluminum throughout the whole
thing overall. That's true. You're still gonna get lots of
carbon fiber bits, but I doubt if you're gonna have
quite as much carbon fiber as you would find in
(17:08):
that six the material cost is just too high, I
think so. But the but but that's some pretty nasty
stuff on the road, especially for that price. Well yeah,
and there's more to it than this. I mean, if
you want to like to talk about a few other
a few other things, there's uh, let's see how just
flip through the notes here. But one of the things
that one of the authors found most striking about this
(17:29):
in person. Now you have to be standing right next
to it to really see this, is that, um, they've
used kind of this uh, this this layered aspect or
this layered design, um approach to this whole thing. And
and to just kind of briefly describe you what what
that means is that um, well, this author was was
talking to the guy that designed it. His name is
(17:50):
Robert Melville, and uh, he's if they say, he's a
young brit Um who took his inspiration from the Blackbirds
spy plane, which I think is very cool way to
to do it. But he said, we wanted to layer
the car so that the air flows through the body,
not just around it. And we we learned a lot
of lessons from the p one and if you look
carefully at the five seventy s you can literally follow
(18:11):
the journey the air takes around the car. And again
if you're standing right next to the vehicle. And I
don't quite get this because we haven't stood next to
one yet, but he says that one of the most
striking features, which no photo does justice too, are the
doors themselves. They have that really unique three dimensional layer design,
unlike anything this author has ever seen on a production model.
(18:32):
And he says that they're fabricated and this is really
unusual in separate pieces, because typically doors are made in
one solid piece, and that's that's just the standard way
that we do things. And they say that the melos
layering UM design is allowing you to actually see inside
the door from various angles. Now, I think that's really
a strange way to say it. It It doesn't sound all
(18:53):
that great to me to be able to see inside
the door. But I think what they're saying is that, um,
it's not that you're seeing in side the vehicle. It's
not that there's air gap leaks, you know, into the cabin.
They're saying, into the door itself. And that's again for
air flow through the body of the vehicle to the
outside of the vehic and it's just a typically are
a totally different way of of looking at the way
(19:14):
the air flows around the vehicle, even from the the
p one. Yeah, the chief engineer of the of the
five seventy is a guy named Mark Vintel's v I
N N E l S. And he was talking with
a couple of different people about this one thing. One
thing that he noted is that this vehicle was also
(19:37):
designed with over the shoulder visibility, which is an ongoing
achilles heel for a lot of sports cars. So absolutely,
I mean, visibility is usually very very poor in these cars.
Now they say that, um, you can easily see out
the front window of this vehicle as well. Um, even
though when you stand next to it looks like as
they say, you know that it's impossibly low and sloped,
(19:58):
you know, the front windshield and the UH and the
park and then it goes over top of the hood
or the roof line. I should say, not that, not
the hood, but the roof line. Um, is impossibly low
and flat. They say, well, I don't just don't know
how you fit in there. But once you get in
there's actually plenty of room in side, and visibility is
good and again over the shoulder. I mean that's that's
again so hard to do in a car like this
(20:19):
when the body panels are up, you know, right around
your your shoulder height, very very difficult. And uh, if
we look at it overall, and you guys know, I
can be a bit of a bit of a tight one. Um,
this is a pretty good deal if you are the
right kind of customer. And while while there are both
(20:41):
sides for the argument, and I can understand both sides,
you know that eight miatas is a pretty compelling thing,
but this is not four people who want eight miatas.
This is for people who want one McLaren yeah, or
people who want you know, one portion nine eleven Turbo s,
which is about a hundred and eighty four thousand dollars,
so you know, a little bit less. Even so, think
(21:02):
about that the top end portion nine eleven the turbos
is still about a thousand dollars less than this one,
but that puts it in direct competition with it. So
if you were going to buy a portion before, maybe
now that the door is open to McLaren as well,
where before you know the price of entry and that
in that vehicle would have been twice what you were
willing to spend in that portion nine eleven. So if
you really want that McLaren name, you can have it.
(21:24):
And the other one was the I think it's the
out e R eight the V ten. Um that that
one is also somewhere in the neighborhood. Is it's less
expensive than these. However, it's you know, roughly ballpark you know.
The um you know, in competition again, so that type
of vehicle, you know that that uh that high end
sports are very powerful. Um, you know, you're you're looking
(21:45):
to spend maybe just a little bit more on the
McLaren I think, but again it's in uh, it's in
competition with that vehicle as well. So um yeah or
eight miatas, you know, whichever you want, but um, you know.
And there's one more quick thing that I'd like to
talk about before we kind of move on to uh
that last thing that's you know, the the other model
that they're talking about. There's one more really interesting feature
(22:06):
that they talked about that this that this particular model,
the five seventy s does have UM And I'll tell
you what I find it most intriguing is because it
comes from the formula one team, the McLaren Formula one
arm of the of the the company. All right, and
even maybe more intriguing than that is that this was
a band technology and Formula one alright. So um Initially
(22:29):
the system was developed by McLaren during the season, but
it was banned right after that because it was also
deemed um a too much of a performance advantage for
the McLaren team. Oh yeah, I remember this from our
earlier show. Yeah, so let's getting you excited about the
sevent Yes, it should be. Um. So, the system, which
is called the break steer system, is said to help
(22:51):
cornering by bringing the vehicle's nose into the apex of
a bend by applying breaking force to the inside rear wheel,
which means the driver can break later and then start
to accelebrate again much earlier than they would have been
able to in the past. So again, as seen as
a performance advantage in the F one on the F
one team, they've taken that technology and developed for the
(23:13):
story for the five seventy s. And that's something that
you get for your five. But how cool is that
to have some band F one technology in your you know,
your your supercar. You're in supercar. Yeah, I think that's uh,
I think that's great unless you're trying to compete in
F one, that's true, I guess, so they would still
have a problem with it, but not likely to be
(23:34):
on the F one track anytime soon. And I mean,
can you imagine driving down a legal street and thinking
I'm driving in illegal F one car. That's kind of
like what it is, I guess, I mean, if you
want to think about it that way. And I'm sure
there's other parts of this and I know that you
know that that tub design that's part of all this.
Um there's there's other F one technology built in this
(23:56):
car as well, and that's again, it's all part of
what you get with us McLaren name. And this this
is getting exciting that you know, it's it is coming
down in price, and I hope they continue this because
you know they've they've gone down from you know, the
six five to the six fifty to the six fifty
or I'm sorry, to the five seventy. And then there's
another one on the horizon that is set to h
to launch very soon here I think within the end
(24:18):
of this month, right, yeah, or at least when we're
recording this anyways, at the at the Shanghai Motor Show
at the end of April, they're supposed to reveal another
model that's even less expensive than the five seventy s
and it's called the five forty C. Yes, the five
forty C a k a. The saga continues, Yes, and
(24:39):
and even further reduced price. Ben. Yeah, so it's about
eighty five for the five seventy. Uh, it's about a
hundred and sixty for the five forties. They're gonna knock
another twenty five thousand dollars off the price. And I
haven't seen the five forty C yet. I don't know
what it looks like. Is it's still arriving, it's still
(25:00):
coming soon. It hasn't been revealed yet at this point.
But again, a lower price Peogle. So they're they're building,
you know, car after car, you know production car that's
getting lower and lower in price. It's becoming more and
more affordable. I know. Again back to that same conversation,
it's becoming more affordable for someone who's in that realm.
I guess right. Yeah, the price isn't dropping as precipitously
(25:22):
as it did in the past. Um, but there's not
as of now. As of the time we're recording this,
there's there's not too much still out there about the
five forty except for um, let's see, uh, it'll be
slightly less powerful than the five seventy. Yeah, not much less.
(25:42):
And I'll tell you what I've read. I've read that
it's going to use the same engine, you know, so
we're talking about that three point eight Leader twin turbo
V eight again, right, but it's gonna have just slightly
less less output. Horse power wise, it's gonna have five
hundred and thirty three horsepower versus the seventy s so
not a dramatic difference in that it. Um, it's going
to have. Oh you know, this kind of leads into
(26:03):
a separate little section here that I want to talk
about is that how are they doing this? How are
they how are they making models that are less expensive
as they go along, because again other brands tend to
go the other way, they build up exclusivity. Well, they
are using different materials, that's a huge part of it.
That's exactly it been. They're they're starting to use um,
you know, aluminum instead of carbon fiber. Like those brakes
(26:26):
are one of the five seventy breaks are a big deal, right, Yeah,
they're carbon ceramic, yea carbon ceramic, and they're not going
to be standard on the UM. I would guess that
you could upgrade to that if you wanted to, but
that's gonna be an expensive thing. I mean, if they're
leaving it off of this one in order to bring
the price down, a part of that, you know that
they're expensive. UM they're also going to um I do
(26:49):
things like, you know, maybe less leather inside. You know
that's that's an option as well. UM. You know, just
a lot of trim differences are where you're gonna find
the the cost comparison or the cost differences in these
in these models, so you know you're gonna get uh
less for your money, I guess for the five forty C.
But it's still gonna be really really powerful, I mean
five thirty three horsepower and the McLaren name and all
(27:11):
that other stuff that we talked about before this. UM
I don't know if it's gonna have the break steer
system or anything like that, but UM, I like the trend.
I do like that they're coming down in price. UM
I kind of wish that I would see something like
this from Tesla. You know that if Tesla seems like
to me like one that could do something like this
in the near future, Yeah, I think that's in the plans.
(27:33):
But also you know, they're they're playing a longer game,
you know, uh, and they're playing on multiple fronts. Okay,
you know I said Tesla is one specific example. I
understand that there's other manufacturers that I'd like to do
that with as well. You know, I'd like to see
the Corvettes do something similar that wouldn't it be great
to own like a brand new sting, right, but get
(27:54):
one that's like a little bit more paired down. Like
what if what if they offered like a cloth seat
aft and instead of you know, the instead of leather
seat after And I know it's it's funny to think
about it, but it's not a bad idea. What if
they did that and they could cut seven thousand dollars
off the price of the car or something like that. Yeah,
but then how much that that's the risk again, like
how much money would they lose per car per customer
(28:15):
who decides not to buy a Corvette anymore because of
you know, the delution of the brand, because they don't
want to be down there with the I don't know,
the Proletariat or something. But uh, well, what what about
like um, okay, um Camaros or something like that again, Chevrolette.
They tend to seem to go up in value at
the newer models that they release. It's always, you know, like,
(28:36):
we're gonna have the the RS model. Now we're gonna
release the U, the S S or the Z L
one birdon and it's going to be more expensive. It's
always that way. Well, what if you were still to
offer the same engines and just change out the trim
a little bit like we talked about. I mean, is
that is that something? I mean, I I see where
you're stand on this, and I know that other people
(28:57):
are gonna say, well, yeah, it also is deluting the brand.
I get it, but maybe I'm just talking to well no, well,
like what if okay, but what if for instance, let's
take the Tesla example again, which is related but a
little bit different, because the roadster right out of the
reach of most people price wise. Sure, the one that's
one looked like the um, the Lotus US vehicle a
(29:18):
little bit like yeah, yeah, the at least yeah, it
looked like Louis Lease and then the Modelsque came out,
UM much more of a standard sedan kind of fingerprint
or blueprint UM, but also a lower price. So what
they're doing is they're coming out with lower priced models
that are just different cars. And what would you like?
(29:39):
I just want your opinion on this. What would you
think of if Camaro or Corvette came out with a
much lower priced car that was like not a Camaro. Okay,
well I would not like that at all, I guess.
I mean, I see what your your point is here.
If they go if they go to a certain point,
there's a there's a breaking point for everybody. And some
people would be, well, I you're gonna you're gonna offer
(30:01):
that car then with a four cylinder engine. Some people say, no,
we're not gonna, We're not gonna do that. I mean,
or a Corvette. Let's say that you can get a
Corvette with the V six. Yeah, I don't think people
are gonna go for that either. So they're gonna say
and I know that there's a point where everybody says, Okay,
that's it, I'm out, I'm done. But where is that
point with McLaren When when are they gonna break that point?
(30:22):
I mean, are they gonna keep coming down with you know,
that's the five seventy Now, then it's the five forty.
Are they gonna come down to like, you know, the
four fifty model, that's that that now breaks the one
thousand dollar mark? I mean, so that it's you know,
less than that. Where do they end? Where is their
their breaking point where they say, Okay, we're done with
you know, kind of pearing down what we're offering. We're
gonna go back to the high end stuff that made
(30:43):
us money to begin with. Yeah, I think that that
point might be a little bit different depending upon your perspective,
you know, I guess. I mean, I know that I'm
kind of all over the place, all over the board here,
but um there's a lot of thoughts I have about this,
and I don't know quite how to put them succinctly
enough for everybody understand. I suppose that, um that that
(31:04):
you know that this brand ilution thing is a big
deal for a lot of people, and I get it,
I do. But there's certain little compromises that I would
make on some models in order to bring the price
down to the point where I personally could afford it.
That'd be great, Yeah, totally, but that would anger other
people and things that they would do. I wouldn't necessarily
like exactly. And it's just that it's gonna be that
(31:27):
way forever. And the manufacturers they have to deal with
us all the time. I mean, what what uh, you know,
what do we do with this next model? Do we
do we? Uh? Do we up the antie a bit?
And do we give it, you know, an even bigger
and more powerful engine and more carbon fiber and carbon
ceramic breaks like this one? And we we put in
some of that band f one technology into our car
as well. You know, where do we where do we
(31:48):
draw the line? And yeah? And does a line exist?
And can you discover it before you cross over? Sorry?
Then I feel like I'm I'm like a schizophrenic over here.
I'm all over the place. This is important. We're making
we're making valuable differentiations too. Because one thing that irritates
me and I know it irritates you and probably a
lot of other car fans is when an otherwise pretty
(32:11):
good brand comes out with something that is totally not them.
After Martin, Oh, it comes out with a signet. You
have the signa I mean, that's all we have to say.
I mean, that's that's not that that is I think
a bad direction for companies to go, because that's for
manufacturers to go, because it makes your brand itself a
(32:35):
little less trustworthy. But with what's happening now, with what
McLaren is doing, with what Tesla is doing with with
the Boxer too man, it paid off, or it can
pay off, and I don't think it's fundamentally destroying the
brands themselves, because it's the same thing with as you say,
compromises in certain areas. We're still I mean again, and
(32:57):
I keep going back to this, we're still talking about
a car that is approaching two hundred thousand dollars, a
sports car. I don't know why. I mean, I don't
even know if we really should be having this conversation that,
you know, they're deluding the brand or whatever. I mean,
maybe that's kind of silly to talk about at this point.
But if they do get to the point where they
do break a hundred thousand dollars, you know, it's down
to like eighty nine thousand dollars um, you know, maybe
(33:18):
at that point they are I don't I don't really
know I don't know how to I don't know quite
know how to grasp this whole thing because it's a
company that builds you know, million and a half dollar
cars or cars that you know, in some cases got
three point zero six million dollars. Um, is it a
mistake for them to build these lower end vehicles or not?
I mean, that's maybe the question that I'd like to
ask the audience is that they think that this this
(33:39):
this move to build um, more affordable sports cars from
a brand that's so well respected like this. I mean,
is this a mistake or is this something that is
is a good move? And I personally, I feel like
this is a good move for them. I think it's
still exclusive enough. You know, at two d dollars that
that counts a lot of people out of the game. Um,
I think that it's still very exclusive. I think that
(34:00):
you know, they're not doing anything to tarnish the brand
name and as the uh, you know, the the product
manager says, we're not deluding the DNA, We're not deluding
the brand. It's still a phenomenal driving vehicle, still a McLaren. Um,
you get all of the everything you expect with McLaren
when you buy this, McLaren. I think this thing is
gonna sell like hotcakes, even at two dollars. I think
(34:20):
they're gonna they're gonna sell out. I think so too completely.
But let us know what you think. Is this a
mistake or an innovation? Is this a misstep or a
good move? I almost said momentum for the rhetoric, but
that wouldn't make sense. I mean, looking back at uh
and I again, I'm sorry I keep going off on tangents,
but the looking back at the boxer, that wasn't a
mistake for Portion. I mean that was a good move
(34:41):
on their part. But initially people thought, what what the
heck are they doing? This is this is the downfall
of the company. It's never going to recover from this.
I mean it was there were there were some you know,
headlines that were there were not quite that dramatic, but
saying this is a huge mistake for Portion to do this. Yes,
but let us know which side you fall. And you
can find us on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter,
(35:02):
you can check out our did we do something just
on the signet? Scott? Do you remember I don't know, man,
I don't know if we did the signet alone or
if it was an Aston Martin podcast that it came
up in. I don't remember, but I don't know. It
surfaces every surfaces every so often. And guys, we're sorry
that we're ending the episode today because we could go
(35:24):
back and forth on this, and we probably will later
on in the week off air, um, because we're you
can tell that we're both very interested in seeing how
McLaren scamble pays off. Um. Scott, you're pretty optimistic about it,
and I gotta be honest with you, man, I am too,
because I think that it's a thing people want to buy.
I do too. I think that I don't think there's
(35:45):
gonna be any shortage of people going out to buy
one of these, um at that price. And then Yeah,
but again, it's gonna be a very well healed bunch.
They're gonna go out and buy a sports car. Yeah.
And if you're planning on buying one, let us know,
you know, let us know if you used McLaren's configurator,
which you can find on their website to design your
(36:06):
own customized McLaren. Yeah, and whether you intend to buy
one or not, it's just fun to play around with. Yeah,
it's fun to look at the stats and how it
affects everything, and uh, let us let us know again,
let us know if you think this is a good
move on their part, and if there are other companies
that you think should or shouldn't do this, Like what
if what if um Rolls Royce for instance, had you know,
(36:29):
like we took at the luxury cars, what if Rolls
Royce had a much lower level entry. Yeah, what if
they had a car that was let's say that they
had a a sedan version of a Rolls Royce that
was available for Let's say, Yeah, it's still expensive, but
not out of the reach of of you know, somebody
who's going to buy a luxury sedan. Yeah, So you
(36:50):
can tell us about that directly on Facebook. You can
tell us about on Twitter. Were car Stuff h s
w at both of them. And if you're like, guys,
I love the show, but I don't like this whole
social media rigamarole and um, you know Facebook is weird
to me, We totally get it. You can send us
an email directly. We are car stuff at how stuff
works dot com. For more on this and thousands of
(37:13):
other topics, is how stuff works dot com. Let us
know what you think. Send an email to podcast at
how stuff works dot com.
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car Stuff from house Stuff Works dot com. I welcome
to car Stuff on Scott and I Am. Then we
are here with No. Uh what's the hoost thing named
for today? Oh? Man, I don't know what what you're
calling him? You know what? Let's just call him No.
(00:24):
Five seventy Brown. Yeah, like it. There's a little lot
of the notes from the significance of today's episode. Yeah, so, so,
just if if I could do a little uh segue,
a little pitching real quick? Yeah, okay, So Scott and listeners,
you have chosen to either host or listen to car
(00:45):
Stuff because you are cut above so many other casual
car fans. You get it, you know what I mean.
You understand the thrill of a of a of a
high performance exotic vehicle. You understand the quiet, moved exclusivity
of a luxury car, but find Corinthian leather beneath your butt. Yes, yes, exactly. Uh.
(01:09):
But you may also be a person who is responsible morally,
ethically fiscally. You may say, well, I didn't become a
multimillionaire by paying multimillions of dollars for a bunch of cars.
You know, and no offense. J If you're listening, Uh,
this is this may just be the car for you.
(01:31):
What we're talking about today is a bargain, right, it
is comparatively. It's it's a bargain comparatively. And that's the
way that this thing is marketed. And this is kind
of funny that, you know, all these stories that have
come out recently about the h the all new McLaren
five seventy s, which is our topic today, they all
seem to say roughly the same thing. It's they call
it the more affordable McLaren, and I understand are you
(01:55):
know they leave out the more part. They just say
the affordable Claren. And that's a little bit puzzling to me.
I'll talk about that in a while. I've got m
S r p s of of all of McLaren's products,
by the way, we can talk about. But this is
a car that comes in at about a hundred and
eighty five thousand dollars and they're saying that that is
the affordable McLaren. And I know what you're thinking. You're
(02:16):
probably thinking, no, there's there's no that's still more than
my house costs. Uh, there's there's no way I can
do that. But in the world of people that are
buying McLaren's sports cars, that's a bargain, right yeah, and
it is it. It's being marketed as McClaren's uh, entry
level vehicle, right. So it's got some good stats, you know,
(02:38):
it's got some great stats, honestly, five sixty two horsepower,
two hundred four miles per hour to seater sports car. Um.
It also has, of course the McLaren name. Um, and
that's huge. Then that is that is huge. So when
you and I were first looking into this, and we
should be clear that the five seventy s is not
(03:01):
technically out yet, it's been revealed, uh, and it is
supposed to start shipping, so people are already ordering. Yeah,
because at the end of this year you should be
able to order one from McLaren and have it shipped
to you. Uh, you know wherever you happen to be.
I mean, they're even for sale here in the United States. UM.
I don't know any regions that have been excluded from
this vehicle yet. I'm sure all that stuff is gonna
(03:22):
come out in the wash pretty soon. Um. But there's
also another vehicle that we're gonna talk about that's gonna
be available at the same time that maybe even a
better deal. But we'll we'll get to that too. Well, yeah,
we'll get there when we'll get there in due time.
But Scott, okay, So if we've got this this number,
this price point of a hundred eighty four, what was
a D four thousand, thousand nine, So we're gonna say
(03:45):
a hundred okay, So if we've got that price, uh,
then there are two questions that immediately spring to mind. First,
how does this compare to other prices of McLaren autos?
And then second what do you get for the money?
All right? So we're talking about current product available from McLaren, right.
I went to their site and I looked up all
the different models that they offer, and then when I
(04:07):
got the the m s RP for each one, and
they start, I mean, the the most expensive one is
one that we've talked about on this show before, the
McLaren P One. An incredible vehicle, amazing car, but it
will cost you one point four million dollars at this
point and US as US dollars, that's that's one point
four million dollars of money, all right, So if you
(04:29):
want to go even a step higher. I mean, I
think you already have to own a McLaren P one
to get something called the McLaren P one GTR, which
I believe is the track version of the car, and
that's about three point zero six million dollars. So that's
a very very high end vehicle. But that's again for
a very exclusive group of owners. UM. So if you
go down from the P one, you know, you're kind
(04:50):
of going down through the ranks. I guess if you
want to say that, even about McLaren, it's tough to
say one is less than the other one. But um,
the six LT which stands for long tail UM, that
is the track version of the six fifty S that
we'll talk about next. Uh, that costs you about about
three hundred and eighty six thousand dollars. The six fifty S,
which s stands for spider in this case UM, is
(05:11):
about two hundred and eighty two thousand, six hundred twenty
five dollars. Now that that that one, in particular, the
six fifty S Spider, that's the one that we saw
at the Caffeine and Exotic Show. We did a video
on that one, and beautiful vehicle. I mean, we saw
it was last fall, I think it was. It was
orange and color. Yeah, and you can check out that
video on YouTube right now. As a matter of fact,
(05:32):
unless you're driving so nearly a three hundred thousand dollar car,
right and it's beautiful. I mean, it's a great looking car. Uh,
but three hundred thousand dollars that's a lot of money. Um,
the six fifty s coope, which is roughly about the
same prices about two sixty seven nine, and then the
next one in line, so we're dropping down from two
hundred and fifty seven thousand all the way down to
one and eighty five thousand for the five seventy s.
(05:54):
So I can see why they would say that this
is a bargain compared to the rest of their product line.
And that's what we have to think about. You have
to think about in in relation to the rest of
the product line. And one thing that you know, you
and I talked about this off air outside of here.
I was trying to think of other manufacturers that are
doing something similar and and I'll explain why this is
(06:15):
unusual for them to do something like Right, yeah, we're
we're gonna have to talk about the precedence. Yea. So
so think about this, what if there was a what
if What if Corvette started making the Corvette and initially
the Corvette was priced at three thousand dollars and they
started making versions of the Corvette that were maybe a
little bit less powered, and they started and you know,
they started going backwards in production. So like, instead of
(06:36):
the way they do it now, where they make them
more and more powerful and more and more exclusive and
more and more expensive as well, McLaren is doing kind
of the opposite. They're bringing it down. They're making uh,
they're making world class sports cars, I mean supercars really,
but they are. They're bringing the prices down. They're making
it more and more affordable to people. And as they
get lower and lower in their in their model offerings
(06:59):
like us, you know what they're what they're going to
allow you to buy. I suppose you know the road cars. Um,
it seems like they're going the opposite direction other manufacturers
are going with their top end sports cars. And and
the only even the closest example I can think of
to this, and it's not even really close now that
I think about it, because there wasn't a progression of
(07:20):
vehicles after this. But Porsche did something like this back
in the in the nineteen nineties, the mid nineteen nineties
with the um with Boxer. Yeah, yeah, this this car
came out. What what was the price when it came out?
When it came out, it was around thirty five thousand dollars. Now,
that was unheard of to be able to buy a
a brand new portion from the factory at the time.
(07:40):
In thirty five thousand dollars. It was an entry level portion. Yeah,
and and before I know that, there's another example looming
here that will come up with. But we we need
to take a second to talk about what's called brand delution,
which our early like listeners, you've probably heard us talk
to about this before, especially if you're a long time
fan of car stuff. So Porsche takes an enormous risk
(08:06):
with the Boxer here when they do this, because what
the part of the reason that people are buying things
like a Porsche at that time, part of the reason
people are buying more high end UH luxury vehicles as
well as performance vehicles is because of the exclusivity the
entry point. So is it some and this happens um
(08:29):
weirdly enough? I I don't remember if we did this analogy,
we first talked about it um or this comparison. But
weirdly enough, this kind of thing has happened in the
world of fashion too, and I think we have mentioned that,
you know, somebody, um there's some very high end fashioned
brand that is worn by like aristocrats and celebrities and
(08:50):
stuff like that, and then all of a sudden, the
regular Joe Schmo's, Ben Bolan's and Scott Benjamin's of the
world are rocking it and it becomes less interest. Yeah,
you know what, I can think of one brand that
that happened to in my lifetime. I guess is that
did that happen? I mean I think it did. And
I don't know if that's really like a celebrity brand
or anything like that. I know, it's a funny thing
(09:11):
to talk about, you know, the clothing, the angle on
this whole thing, you know, when we're talking about cars.
But I mean, think about now, how many times you've
seen like a Polo T shirt, you know, like with
the giant Polo logo on the front or whatever that
you know, you see it in the discount rack at
TJ Max or something, you know where in the past
you would have to go to a special section in
the in your local mall where it was gonna be
(09:33):
seventy five dollars for that T shirt. Um, I know
that some of that stuff is knockoffs. I get it,
and you know, but that's not the case with the cars.
These are from the manufacturer. They're saying, we're gonna offer
what we're called the entry level Porsche, which is the Boxer,
and we're going to offer it at a price that's,
you know, reasonably. We think it's reasonable for what you get.
And you get, you know, the the the brand name,
(09:55):
you get some of the features that are in some
of the higher end models, but not all of the cultures. Um,
you get the you know, I guess the bragging rights
to say that, you know, I've owned a Porsche, you
know whatever, there's some kind of pride or yes, some
some chest puffery about that that it can go on
with that, right. But but what they didn't do is
they didn't follow it up with a with a a U,
(10:16):
a make or a model that was even cheaper than that,
because that's kind of what McLaren is doing. And when
I say cheaper, I mean less expensive, I don't mean
quality wise because they are very careful to point out here.
And um, you know, one of the one of the
articles that we read, um had someone who was the
McLaren product manager, name is Donna Falconer, and she's talking
(10:38):
about the five seventy s in particular, and she says, um,
you know, it's it's the most attainable and usable McLaren
to date. But also we want to point out that
there's been no um, no compromise in this, in this
in the whole brand DNA thing, you know for McLaren
that you know, this is definitely a McLaren and has
McLaren d NA, and the driving experience is absolutely phenomenal
(11:00):
in this car. You're gonna love it. But you're gonna
be able to get into this uh this driver's seat
for a much more affordable price than let's say, three
thou dollars. You're gonna get there for just about half
of that, right Yeah. And and of course, as you
as you alluded to, this is not the end of
their game here. But uh, before we go on to
that part, we should say that some people that this
(11:23):
has been this has been divisive, you know. Um. Now
there's the boxer was a success. Yeah it was, but
they got a lot of criticism. They got a lot
of criticism by saying, you are essentially deluding the brand.
You're making Porsche not Porsche anymore, you're selling out kind
of yeah, I guess so. And and you know, the
same argument can be made when they say we're gonna
we're gonna start automating the Ferrari line, We're gonna make
(11:46):
more Ferraris. We're instead of making you know, seventy five
of these things a year by hand, where we meticulously
piece everything together, we're gonna make four thousand of them
and distribute them and sell them. And people say, well,
that's that's taking away from the brand exclusivity, is it,
that's taken away from Ferrari. So this this kind of bet,
while it can be well, it cannot have enormous rewards
(12:07):
both for possible customers and for the company, It can
also have consequences for the company. It can. But you know,
we're talking about let's let's just step aside from this
conversation we've had to this point right here. Okay, okay,
so let's let's take a look at this like brand
new right now, Okay, this is still a car that
that is cast it will cost you one dred and
(12:27):
eighty five thousand dollars. That's not a typical sports car.
I mean it's not, Um, it's the extraordinary. It's the
it's the extra typical. I don't know why, how what
the right term would be extraordinary extraordinary car? Um? You know,
so so you know, one a thousand dollars. I mean
to say that that's affordable, it's more affordable than the
(12:47):
previous version. I get that, But to say it's affordable,
I don't know if that's really being all that honest.
And I know a lot of these uh, these people
are kind of you know, laughing about it. They're saying,
I think car and Driver said it's it's almost afford
that's how they put it. And you know, other other
you know, um people that have written about it already
have said, well you could do that, or you could
get eight you know, well equipped Master. Yeah. Yeah, I
(13:09):
mean that's a good point, is that, you know you
could buy eight or nine or ten other sports cars
in some cases. And uh, there's I heard a great
line which was it's less unaffordable. I get it. But
but think about this though, like let's say that when
the you know, the specialty versions of the Corvette come out, um,
and you know, their their priced ballpark one hundred thousand dollars.
(13:30):
You know, maybe even a little bit more. If we're
talking to z L one, it might be a hundred thousand,
hundred forty thousand or whatever it is. That two people
when they see that one hundred thousand dollar mark, a
lot of them say that's it. I'm out, it's it's
unaffordable at that point. But for a McLaren, I think
that somebody is in the market to buy McLaren that
sees one eighty five, they might think, well, that's a
bargain for McLaren because in the past it would have
(13:51):
had to spend one point four million dollars to get
the one that I wanted um or the name that
I wanted. Now I can spend you know, a fraction
of that and and get something that, uh, something that
would be a good vehicle that you would you would
be okay with driving. You would be so proud to
own something like that. I mean you really would, because
that's a that's a name that has it's steeped in
racing history. The road cars are fantastic their phenomenal road cars.
(14:15):
And you know that the road cars haven't been around
for that long, I think since about nineteen eighty nine.
But the brand itself, if you want to go back
to the founder, uh, you know, Bruce McLaren, it goes
back to nineteen sixty three, and that name has carries
such cashe that I think that the people in the
sports car world, you know, the the the supercar world
even highly respect that name. And I think that, you know,
(14:36):
even if you show up in a five seventy s
that's a D five thousand, they're still going to respect you.
The so called baby McLaren that comes from top Gear.
Now you know, you know that this vehicle has already
has already made some people. Uh, has already been a
bit divisive, is a better way to say it. Because
even on even on top Gear. Uh, we've got let's see,
(15:01):
we've got Sam Philip saying that it leaves him a
little cold, he's disappointed with it. But we've got Tom
Ford saying that he he likes it better than the
sixty s which I at half the price. Yeah. I
don't know about that man, honestly, but U but let's
let's talk about what you get with the vehicle. Sure, yeah, yeah,
(15:22):
I mean there's a there's a lot of feature you
mentioned just a couple of things here already. But but
the engine itself, so, I mean, take a look at
the design. I mean, you can look at the photos
of this thing online. It's it's uh, I don't know.
When I saw it, I initially thought, well, that looks
an awful lot like the six fifty s Coop that
we saw or the sixty Spider rather that we saw
at the Caffeine and Exotics. But when you start to
really look at the details, it's a it's a very
(15:44):
different vehicle. I mean, they've really gone over it with
a fine tooth comb. So and they've used something that
they call layering design, which will I'll get to. But
the basics of this car or that it's a twin
turbo three point eight leader V eight engine of course,
is mid mounted re will drive, has a carbon fiber chassis.
It's got that really cool carbon fiber tub design called
the mono cell, and I think this is called the
(16:04):
mono cell to in this one. That whole tub by
the way, you know, where the driver sits. It's an
F one style tub. On eighty pounds is all that
thing weighs. So this is a very lightweight vehicle. I
think the total weight for the car is something like
so less than three thousand pounds for this car, and
it's a pretty big vehicle. Um, you said five horsepower,
(16:27):
that's four hundred and forty three pound feet of torque
um two hundred four mile per hour top speed. That's
an incredible top set. And zero to sixty comes in
just three point two seconds. Now if you want to
go zero to one hundred, which I think a lot
of drivers would six point three seconds. That's extremely fast,
very very fast. So um. You know, one thing is
(16:47):
that you know would think it would be a lot
of carbon fiber at that price, but a lot of
the body panels are made of aluminum, and I think
that's one of the ways that they've been cutting costs. Yeah,
and that that goes into Um, I mean, there's there's
a lend of carbon fiber and aluminum throughout the whole
thing overall. That's true. You're still gonna get lots of
carbon fiber bits, but I doubt if you're gonna have
quite as much carbon fiber as you would find in
(17:08):
that six the material cost is just too high, I
think so. But the but but that's some pretty nasty
stuff on the road, especially for that price. Well yeah,
and there's more to it than this. I mean, if
you want to like to talk about a few other
a few other things, there's uh, let's see how just
flip through the notes here. But one of the things
that one of the authors found most striking about this
(17:29):
in person. Now you have to be standing right next
to it to really see this, is that, um, they've
used kind of this uh, this this layered aspect or
this layered design, um approach to this whole thing. And
and to just kind of briefly describe you what what
that means is that um, well, this author was was
talking to the guy that designed it. His name is
(17:50):
Robert Melville, and uh, he's if they say, he's a
young brit Um who took his inspiration from the Blackbirds
spy plane, which I think is very cool way to
to do it. But he said, we wanted to layer
the car so that the air flows through the body,
not just around it. And we we learned a lot
of lessons from the p one and if you look
carefully at the five seventy s you can literally follow
(18:11):
the journey the air takes around the car. And again
if you're standing right next to the vehicle. And I
don't quite get this because we haven't stood next to
one yet, but he says that one of the most
striking features, which no photo does justice too, are the
doors themselves. They have that really unique three dimensional layer design,
unlike anything this author has ever seen on a production model.
(18:32):
And he says that they're fabricated and this is really
unusual in separate pieces, because typically doors are made in
one solid piece, and that's that's just the standard way
that we do things. And they say that the melos
layering UM design is allowing you to actually see inside
the door from various angles. Now, I think that's really
a strange way to say it. It It doesn't sound all
(18:53):
that great to me to be able to see inside
the door. But I think what they're saying is that, um,
it's not that you're seeing in side the vehicle. It's
not that there's air gap leaks, you know, into the cabin.
They're saying, into the door itself. And that's again for
air flow through the body of the vehicle to the
outside of the vehic and it's just a typically are
a totally different way of of looking at the way
(19:14):
the air flows around the vehicle, even from the the
p one. Yeah, the chief engineer of the of the
five seventy is a guy named Mark Vintel's v I
N N E l S. And he was talking with
a couple of different people about this one thing. One
thing that he noted is that this vehicle was also
(19:37):
designed with over the shoulder visibility, which is an ongoing
achilles heel for a lot of sports cars. So absolutely,
I mean, visibility is usually very very poor in these cars.
Now they say that, um, you can easily see out
the front window of this vehicle as well. Um, even
though when you stand next to it looks like as
they say, you know that it's impossibly low and sloped,
(19:58):
you know, the front windshield and the UH and the
park and then it goes over top of the hood
or the roof line. I should say, not that, not
the hood, but the roof line. Um, is impossibly low
and flat. They say, well, I don't just don't know
how you fit in there. But once you get in
there's actually plenty of room in side, and visibility is
good and again over the shoulder. I mean that's that's
again so hard to do in a car like this
(20:19):
when the body panels are up, you know, right around
your your shoulder height, very very difficult. And uh, if
we look at it overall, and you guys know, I
can be a bit of a bit of a tight one. Um,
this is a pretty good deal if you are the
right kind of customer. And while while there are both
(20:41):
sides for the argument, and I can understand both sides,
you know that eight miatas is a pretty compelling thing,
but this is not four people who want eight miatas.
This is for people who want one McLaren yeah, or
people who want you know, one portion nine eleven Turbo s,
which is about a hundred and eighty four thousand dollars,
so you know, a little bit less. Even so, think
(21:02):
about that the top end portion nine eleven the turbos
is still about a thousand dollars less than this one,
but that puts it in direct competition with it. So
if you were going to buy a portion before, maybe
now that the door is open to McLaren as well,
where before you know the price of entry and that
in that vehicle would have been twice what you were
willing to spend in that portion nine eleven. So if
you really want that McLaren name, you can have it.
(21:24):
And the other one was the I think it's the
out e R eight the V ten. Um that that
one is also somewhere in the neighborhood. Is it's less
expensive than these. However, it's you know, roughly ballpark you know.
The um you know, in competition again, so that type
of vehicle, you know that that uh that high end
sports are very powerful. Um, you know, you're you're looking
(21:45):
to spend maybe just a little bit more on the
McLaren I think, but again it's in uh, it's in
competition with that vehicle as well. So um yeah or
eight miatas, you know, whichever you want, but um, you know.
And there's one more quick thing that I'd like to
talk about before we kind of move on to uh
that last thing that's you know, the the other model
that they're talking about. There's one more really interesting feature
(22:06):
that they talked about that this that this particular model,
the five seventy s does have UM And I'll tell
you what I find it most intriguing is because it
comes from the formula one team, the McLaren Formula one
arm of the of the the company. All right, and
even maybe more intriguing than that is that this was
a band technology and Formula one alright. So um Initially
(22:29):
the system was developed by McLaren during the season, but
it was banned right after that because it was also
deemed um a too much of a performance advantage for
the McLaren team. Oh yeah, I remember this from our
earlier show. Yeah, so let's getting you excited about the
sevent Yes, it should be. Um. So, the system, which
is called the break steer system, is said to help
(22:51):
cornering by bringing the vehicle's nose into the apex of
a bend by applying breaking force to the inside rear wheel,
which means the driver can break later and then start
to accelebrate again much earlier than they would have been
able to in the past. So again, as seen as
a performance advantage in the F one on the F
one team, they've taken that technology and developed for the
(23:13):
story for the five seventy s. And that's something that
you get for your five. But how cool is that
to have some band F one technology in your you know,
your your supercar. You're in supercar. Yeah, I think that's uh,
I think that's great unless you're trying to compete in
F one, that's true, I guess, so they would still
have a problem with it, but not likely to be
(23:34):
on the F one track anytime soon. And I mean,
can you imagine driving down a legal street and thinking
I'm driving in illegal F one car. That's kind of
like what it is, I guess, I mean, if you
want to think about it that way. And I'm sure
there's other parts of this and I know that you
know that that tub design that's part of all this.
Um there's there's other F one technology built in this
(23:56):
car as well, and that's again, it's all part of
what you get with us McLaren name. And this this
is getting exciting that you know, it's it is coming
down in price, and I hope they continue this because
you know they've they've gone down from you know, the
six five to the six fifty to the six fifty
or I'm sorry, to the five seventy. And then there's
another one on the horizon that is set to h
to launch very soon here I think within the end
(24:18):
of this month, right, yeah, or at least when we're
recording this anyways, at the at the Shanghai Motor Show
at the end of April, they're supposed to reveal another
model that's even less expensive than the five seventy s
and it's called the five forty C. Yes, the five
forty C a k a. The saga continues, Yes, and
(24:39):
and even further reduced price. Ben. Yeah, so it's about
eighty five for the five seventy. Uh, it's about a
hundred and sixty for the five forties. They're gonna knock
another twenty five thousand dollars off the price. And I
haven't seen the five forty C yet. I don't know
what it looks like. Is it's still arriving, it's still
(25:00):
coming soon. It hasn't been revealed yet at this point.
But again, a lower price Peogle. So they're they're building,
you know, car after car, you know production car that's
getting lower and lower in price. It's becoming more and
more affordable. I know. Again back to that same conversation,
it's becoming more affordable for someone who's in that realm.
I guess right. Yeah, the price isn't dropping as precipitously
(25:22):
as it did in the past. Um, but there's not
as of now. As of the time we're recording this,
there's there's not too much still out there about the
five forty except for um, let's see, uh, it'll be
slightly less powerful than the five seventy. Yeah, not much less.
(25:42):
And I'll tell you what I've read. I've read that
it's going to use the same engine, you know, so
we're talking about that three point eight Leader twin turbo
V eight again, right, but it's gonna have just slightly
less less output. Horse power wise, it's gonna have five
hundred and thirty three horsepower versus the seventy s so
not a dramatic difference in that it. Um, it's going
to have. Oh you know, this kind of leads into
(26:03):
a separate little section here that I want to talk
about is that how are they doing this? How are
they how are they making models that are less expensive
as they go along, because again other brands tend to
go the other way, they build up exclusivity. Well, they
are using different materials, that's a huge part of it.
That's exactly it been. They're they're starting to use um,
you know, aluminum instead of carbon fiber. Like those brakes
(26:26):
are one of the five seventy breaks are a big deal, right, Yeah,
they're carbon ceramic, yea carbon ceramic, and they're not going
to be standard on the UM. I would guess that
you could upgrade to that if you wanted to, but
that's gonna be an expensive thing. I mean, if they're
leaving it off of this one in order to bring
the price down, a part of that, you know that
they're expensive. UM they're also going to um I do
(26:49):
things like, you know, maybe less leather inside. You know
that's that's an option as well. UM. You know, just
a lot of trim differences are where you're gonna find
the the cost comparison or the cost differences in these
in these models, so you know you're gonna get uh
less for your money, I guess for the five forty C.
But it's still gonna be really really powerful, I mean
five thirty three horsepower and the McLaren name and all
(27:11):
that other stuff that we talked about before this. UM
I don't know if it's gonna have the break steer
system or anything like that, but UM, I like the trend.
I do like that they're coming down in price. UM
I kind of wish that I would see something like
this from Tesla. You know that if Tesla seems like
to me like one that could do something like this
in the near future, Yeah, I think that's in the plans.
(27:33):
But also you know, they're they're playing a longer game,
you know, uh, and they're playing on multiple fronts. Okay,
you know I said Tesla is one specific example. I
understand that there's other manufacturers that I'd like to do
that with as well. You know, I'd like to see
the Corvettes do something similar that wouldn't it be great
to own like a brand new sting, right, but get
(27:54):
one that's like a little bit more paired down. Like
what if what if they offered like a cloth seat
aft and instead of you know, the instead of leather
seat after And I know it's it's funny to think
about it, but it's not a bad idea. What if
they did that and they could cut seven thousand dollars
off the price of the car or something like that. Yeah,
but then how much that that's the risk again, like
how much money would they lose per car per customer
(28:15):
who decides not to buy a Corvette anymore because of
you know, the delution of the brand, because they don't
want to be down there with the I don't know,
the Proletariat or something. But uh, well, what what about
like um, okay, um Camaros or something like that again, Chevrolette.
They tend to seem to go up in value at
the newer models that they release. It's always, you know, like,
(28:36):
we're gonna have the the RS model. Now we're gonna
release the U, the S S or the Z L
one birdon and it's going to be more expensive. It's
always that way. Well, what if you were still to
offer the same engines and just change out the trim
a little bit like we talked about. I mean, is
that is that something? I mean, I I see where
you're stand on this, and I know that other people
(28:57):
are gonna say, well, yeah, it also is deluting the brand.
I get it, but maybe I'm just talking to well no, well,
like what if okay, but what if for instance, let's
take the Tesla example again, which is related but a
little bit different, because the roadster right out of the
reach of most people price wise. Sure, the one that's
one looked like the um, the Lotus US vehicle a
(29:18):
little bit like yeah, yeah, the at least yeah, it
looked like Louis Lease and then the Modelsque came out,
UM much more of a standard sedan kind of fingerprint
or blueprint UM, but also a lower price. So what
they're doing is they're coming out with lower priced models
that are just different cars. And what would you like?
(29:39):
I just want your opinion on this. What would you
think of if Camaro or Corvette came out with a
much lower priced car that was like not a Camaro. Okay,
well I would not like that at all, I guess.
I mean, I see what your your point is here.
If they go if they go to a certain point,
there's a there's a breaking point for everybody. And some
people would be, well, I you're gonna you're gonna offer
(30:01):
that car then with a four cylinder engine. Some people say, no,
we're not gonna, We're not gonna do that. I mean,
or a Corvette. Let's say that you can get a
Corvette with the V six. Yeah, I don't think people
are gonna go for that either. So they're gonna say
and I know that there's a point where everybody says, Okay,
that's it, I'm out, I'm done. But where is that
point with McLaren When when are they gonna break that point?
(30:22):
I mean, are they gonna keep coming down with you know,
that's the five seventy Now, then it's the five forty.
Are they gonna come down to like, you know, the
four fifty model, that's that that now breaks the one
thousand dollar mark? I mean, so that it's you know,
less than that. Where do they end? Where is their
their breaking point where they say, Okay, we're done with
you know, kind of pearing down what we're offering. We're
gonna go back to the high end stuff that made
(30:43):
us money to begin with. Yeah, I think that that
point might be a little bit different depending upon your perspective,
you know, I guess. I mean, I know that I'm
kind of all over the place, all over the board here,
but um there's a lot of thoughts I have about this,
and I don't know quite how to put them succinctly
enough for everybody understand. I suppose that, um that that
(31:04):
you know that this brand ilution thing is a big
deal for a lot of people, and I get it,
I do. But there's certain little compromises that I would
make on some models in order to bring the price
down to the point where I personally could afford it.
That'd be great, Yeah, totally, but that would anger other
people and things that they would do. I wouldn't necessarily
like exactly. And it's just that it's gonna be that
(31:27):
way forever. And the manufacturers they have to deal with
us all the time. I mean, what what uh, you know,
what do we do with this next model? Do we
do we? Uh? Do we up the antie a bit?
And do we give it, you know, an even bigger
and more powerful engine and more carbon fiber and carbon
ceramic breaks like this one? And we we put in
some of that band f one technology into our car
as well. You know, where do we where do we
(31:48):
draw the line? And yeah? And does a line exist?
And can you discover it before you cross over? Sorry?
Then I feel like I'm I'm like a schizophrenic over here.
I'm all over the place. This is important. We're making
we're making valuable differentiations too. Because one thing that irritates
me and I know it irritates you and probably a
lot of other car fans is when an otherwise pretty
(32:11):
good brand comes out with something that is totally not them.
After Martin, Oh, it comes out with a signet. You
have the signa I mean, that's all we have to say.
I mean, that's that's not that that is I think
a bad direction for companies to go, because that's for
manufacturers to go, because it makes your brand itself a
(32:35):
little less trustworthy. But with what's happening now, with what
McLaren is doing, with what Tesla is doing with with
the Boxer too man, it paid off, or it can
pay off, and I don't think it's fundamentally destroying the
brands themselves, because it's the same thing with as you say,
compromises in certain areas. We're still I mean again, and
(32:57):
I keep going back to this, we're still talking about
a car that is approaching two hundred thousand dollars, a
sports car. I don't know why. I mean, I don't
even know if we really should be having this conversation that,
you know, they're deluding the brand or whatever. I mean,
maybe that's kind of silly to talk about at this point.
But if they do get to the point where they
do break a hundred thousand dollars, you know, it's down
to like eighty nine thousand dollars um, you know, maybe
(33:18):
at that point they are I don't I don't really
know I don't know how to I don't know quite
know how to grasp this whole thing because it's a
company that builds you know, million and a half dollar
cars or cars that you know, in some cases got
three point zero six million dollars. Um, is it a
mistake for them to build these lower end vehicles or not?
I mean, that's maybe the question that I'd like to
ask the audience is that they think that this this
(33:39):
this move to build um, more affordable sports cars from
a brand that's so well respected like this. I mean,
is this a mistake or is this something that is
is a good move? And I personally, I feel like
this is a good move for them. I think it's
still exclusive enough. You know, at two d dollars that
that counts a lot of people out of the game. Um,
I think that it's still very exclusive. I think that
(34:00):
you know, they're not doing anything to tarnish the brand
name and as the uh, you know, the the product
manager says, we're not deluding the DNA, We're not deluding
the brand. It's still a phenomenal driving vehicle, still a McLaren. Um,
you get all of the everything you expect with McLaren
when you buy this, McLaren. I think this thing is
gonna sell like hotcakes, even at two dollars. I think
(34:20):
they're gonna they're gonna sell out. I think so too completely.
But let us know what you think. Is this a
mistake or an innovation? Is this a misstep or a
good move? I almost said momentum for the rhetoric, but
that wouldn't make sense. I mean, looking back at uh
and I again, I'm sorry I keep going off on tangents,
but the looking back at the boxer, that wasn't a
mistake for Portion. I mean that was a good move
(34:41):
on their part. But initially people thought, what what the
heck are they doing? This is this is the downfall
of the company. It's never going to recover from this.
I mean it was there were there were some you know,
headlines that were there were not quite that dramatic, but
saying this is a huge mistake for Portion to do this. Yes,
but let us know which side you fall. And you
can find us on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter,
(35:02):
you can check out our did we do something just
on the signet? Scott? Do you remember I don't know, man,
I don't know if we did the signet alone or
if it was an Aston Martin podcast that it came
up in. I don't remember, but I don't know. It
surfaces every surfaces every so often. And guys, we're sorry
that we're ending the episode today because we could go
(35:24):
back and forth on this, and we probably will later
on in the week off air, um, because we're you
can tell that we're both very interested in seeing how
McLaren scamble pays off. Um. Scott, you're pretty optimistic about it,
and I gotta be honest with you, man, I am too,
because I think that it's a thing people want to buy.
I do too. I think that I don't think there's
(35:45):
gonna be any shortage of people going out to buy
one of these, um at that price. And then Yeah,
but again, it's gonna be a very well healed bunch.
They're gonna go out and buy a sports car. Yeah.
And if you're planning on buying one, let us know,
you know, let us know if you used McLaren's configurator,
which you can find on their website to design your
(36:06):
own customized McLaren. Yeah, and whether you intend to buy
one or not, it's just fun to play around with. Yeah,
it's fun to look at the stats and how it
affects everything, and uh, let us let us know again,
let us know if you think this is a good
move on their part, and if there are other companies
that you think should or shouldn't do this, Like what
if what if um Rolls Royce for instance, had you know,
(36:29):
like we took at the luxury cars, what if Rolls
Royce had a much lower level entry. Yeah, what if
they had a car that was let's say that they
had a a sedan version of a Rolls Royce that
was available for Let's say, Yeah, it's still expensive, but
not out of the reach of of you know, somebody
who's going to buy a luxury sedan. Yeah, So you
(36:50):
can tell us about that directly on Facebook. You can
tell us about on Twitter. Were car Stuff h s
w at both of them. And if you're like, guys,
I love the show, but I don't like this whole
social media rigamarole and um, you know Facebook is weird
to me, We totally get it. You can send us
an email directly. We are car stuff at how stuff
works dot com. For more on this and thousands of
(37:13):
other topics, is how stuff works dot com. Let us
know what you think. Send an email to podcast at
how stuff works dot com.
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