(05/06) HOTL Hour 2

Handel on the Law, Marginal Legal Advice.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And this is handle on the lawmarginal legal advice, where I bill handle
tell you in certain name here youhave absolutely no case. Pretty good so
far because people have been calling inwhich for the most part have no case,
which of course makes my day.I want to share with you a
lawsuit. I love these lawsuits.This is out of Michigan. Now,

(00:24):
if you follow politics at all,those folks on the right are not really
happy with Joe Biden. A matterof fact, those on the left are
not very happy with Donald Trump orconservative president. So while this is all
going on, there is a battlecry, a rally cry that is a

(00:47):
substitute for cursing out President Biden.And that is the phrase let's go Brandon,
which is a euphemism for all kindsof expletives against Joe Biden. And
there are t shirts, and thereare hats, and there's mugs, there's

(01:07):
allose kinds of merchandise that has thatis very popular. All right, So
you got a couple of middle schoolersthat go to school, go to middle
school, and there they are withtheir sweatshirts that say let's go Brandon,
clearly a political jab at Joe Biden. And the school said h you're not

(01:30):
going to wear them, and theprinciple and the teacher of the class that
this was specific, that is specifichere said boom, you're gone. You
have to remove the garments because thesweatshirt was the equivalent to the F word,
because let's let's go Brandon actually sortof does take the place of the

(01:56):
F word describing Joe Biden. Andso, by the way, this all
came when a TV reporter claimed thata NASCAR crowd was channing Let's Go Brandon
to celebrate a win by the driverBrandon Brown, and somehow this all connected
to opposition to President Biden. Imean, and it was Brandon was I

(02:20):
think band Biden and all kinds ofexpletives were thrown in. So that's how
it all came together. It's justit's weird. But the lawsuit says because
obviously the parents sued to allow thekids to wear the switch the sweatshirt and
saying it was a violation of theirFirst Amendment right, and it became the

(02:44):
school or the lawsuit says that theslogan conveys opposition or President Biden, and
it's sanitized to express the sentiment withoutusing profanity or vulgarity, and it's not
lewed profane, indecent, vulgar,or obscene. Now why is that important?
I'll tell you the stool. Theschool district insists that the dress code

(03:08):
bands clothing with messages that are lewedin decent, vulgar or profane. Here,
I would think they're arguing vulgar becauseit translates into actually the F word
or profane, except that all itsays is let's go brandon. What it

(03:30):
means it may be something else,but there, you know, the connection
isn't strong enough. This is FirstAmendment rights. I mean, it had
the message in fact been typed onthe sweatshirt, put in there, the
actual wordage, but it's not.It literally just says, let's go Brandon.

(03:51):
Now we all know what that means. But you know, anything that
is concocted or made up that isn'tprofane. I mean, there are plenty
of euphemisms out there that we use. For example, I'm allowed to say
the F word or the N word. We know what all that means.
Therefore you can't use it. Seeit's a little tough. We have First

(04:15):
Amendment stuff here, and so we'llsee what the court has to say,
I think they're gonna win. Personally. The only thing the argument the school
has, and this should be partof their dress code, is that anything
any message on a piece of clothingthat somehow is political and would cause a
disruption in the school. That's abetter argument. This first Amendment still control.

(04:40):
Yeah, I still think that hasa really good argument, but not
on that one. Okay, let'sdo it. Let's start with Scott Scott,
good morning. What can I dofor you? Good morning, Bill.
Yeah, a neighbor's tree fell downover the top of the fans into
the yard. And this was backin the first week of October twenty twenty

(05:03):
two. So we tried to geta hold she didn't answer our calls for
like a month and a half.Finally got a hold of her, the
next door neighbor, and she says, well, I'll come down and look
at it. Because on a steephillside two acres of property, so she
really can't get a good view fromher yard. She's just above us.

(05:23):
So she comes over and she lookssad. She says, okay, well
I'll have to send my husband overand have him look at it. And
at that time I had told herthat I got a guy that does our
annual brush clearance and all our treework. He's the cheapest around. He
does great word. Why don't youhear's this number? Why don't you call
him? She goes, no,no, you give him my number.
Well, he called for a coupleof weeks. She never returned his calls.

(05:46):
So January, November, December goesby, January goes by, February
goes by seventh months later. Yeah, so it is she responsible for the
bill that we paid him nine fiftyhalf? Yep, she sure is one.

(06:08):
If we take her to small claimscorre, Can I have an attorney or
counsel down didn't handle it? No? No, no, you take her
to small claims court on your own. No attorneys in small claims scord.
You're suing her for what you paid. How much did you pay? Nine
fifty Is that right? Yeah?Okay, okay, so let me ask
hold on, hold on, holdon, is that a reasonable amount to

(06:31):
pay? More than reasonable? Thenyou're fine, Then you're fine, Then
you're fine, Then you're fine.Yeah, I understand, you're fine.
You asked the question. We don'thave to keep on going with that.
Yes, you sue her for ninehundred and fifty dollars. And even if
she argues, well I could havegotten cheaper, it doesn't matter she didn't.

(06:53):
She didn't, and that's why Iasked you, is it reasonable?
Now? If you paid four thousanddollars and anybody else could have gotten it
for five hundred dollars, that's adifferent issue. But you paid a reasonable
price. She owes you the money, and what you do is explain all
of this to the judge. Idon't have patience to hear at all,
but a judge will small claims Courtone. What can I do for you?

(07:16):
Christian? You can make fun ofme? Bill? Good morning.
Yes, sir, I have afamily member's ex wife who left a bunch
of the Disney snow globes at mymom's house. They they've been there about
six years. We haven't seen orheard from her in three years, and
my mom wants them out of thehouse. She's done with them. What

(07:40):
is my legal obligation? Some ofthese things have price tags of like six
and seven hundred. Yeah, nokidding. I don't want anything more to
do with collectible items that are thissmall. Then we can get a bunch
of money, and if you hangon to him for another twenty years,
it's gonna be thousands of dollars,all right. So there's a couple of
ways of doing this. One istheir statute, what the law says,

(08:05):
and different jurisdictions, some counties somecities say you have to do x X
being you have to try to contactthem at their last known address, and
you have to do it several times. You have to make a not just
a reasonable attempt, but I thinkyou have to make a more than reasonable

(08:26):
attempt to contact her because you're you'rein front of a judge, and the
judge. Let's say this is allsaid and done. You keep the globes,
you sell the globe. She comesback and says, hey, those
are mine. You didn't contact me, I wanted them or whatever. You
go. Here is what we didto contact you. Fifteen emails or four
emails, calling friends, and therewas no way to reach you. The

(08:52):
more of the marrier. Yeah,we've we've done that. I've contacted the
ex husband. Okay, good nowhomeless okay, work okay. Well,
so at some point she's abandoned allof that if she's never contacted you,
and you're free to do whatever thehell you want. Three years of not
contacting you is a long time,okay, And I think you're okay on

(09:13):
this, and I do believe you'reokay. But keep in mind that if
you sell them for whatever price yousell them, Let's say you get three
thousand dollars, she may come backand say that's my money and at least
end up going to court. IfI'm the judge, I'm not giving it
to her, got it. Iwould say, you've abandoned this stuff.

(09:35):
How long is it reasonable? Twentyyears? You come back and what would
you do with it? Would yousell them or would you keep them?
Yes? And there's another portion ofthis too that I meant to bring up.
She left an envelope to put intomy mother's safe, and I took
it out just to see what itwas since we haven't seen her in a
year. It has her children's birthcertificates, their Social Security cards, and

(10:00):
there's twenty thousand dollars cash in thisenvelope. Okay, Well, first of
all, it's gonna have a veryhard time. I've ever proving there's twenty
thousand dollars if and when she comesup there, she may not. She
may never do that. So you'vegot a couple of choices. Yes you
should find her, and yes that'sher money, but at some point she's

(10:20):
abandoned it. What happens if you'vegot twenty thousand dollars hanging around for ten
years, fifteen years? Now,theoretically her errors can say that's fine.
I mean it's happened when people findin walls silver or gold coins, Like
there was a case I remember wherethere was a stash of twenty dollars liberty
gold coins that were worth I meanbuckets of money and they've been there for

(10:46):
a hundred years and the family comesback and says, that's hours. And
I think in that case, thehomeowner got it because it was just over
a hundred years. Although they hadno idea. She knows that she left
it, which is a big deal. So what I would do is contact
another lawyer who has some experience withthis, and you do some research.

(11:09):
My guess is it's yours. Obviously, you try to contact all of the
relatives and say, hey, hereis what I have. Now, whether
you mentioned the twenty thousand dollars,man, that's up to you, because
I don't know where it becomes yourmoney When she abandons it, and if

(11:31):
she's mentally ill and homeless, theargument is, you know what, she
did not voluntarily abandon it. That'swhy you have to go to a lawyer
that has dealt with this before.And it depends on the jurisdiction. Great
case, by the way, it'sI don't know the answer other than what
I've given you, But the firstthing you have to do is try.
You have to try to find her. And I would argue zealously try to

(11:54):
find her because that's your first lineof defense. Good case, All right,
Chris, you don't get very manyof those. Uh, Jack,
you're up? Hello Jack, welcome, Hello. How are you doing?
Yes, sir? What can Ido for you? So? I was
playing with my daughter on my neighbor'slawn and his dog ran out from behind

(12:16):
the backyard, came at me.It ram passed my daughter and bit me
in the arm. Can I suehim even though I was playing on his
front lawn? Uh? Hell,that's a good way. I mean you
were trespassing, basically, you wereon his property. But was there a
fence around the property or just asan open open yard to the side,

(12:37):
open all the all the front yards. Yeah, Yeah, you can sue
him. Yeah, you can suehim. Now, his argument is,
and the insurance company who's going topick this up. His argument is,
you had no business being on theproperty, and if you had not been
on the property so effectively you simplytrespassed, and therefore the dog was protecting

(13:00):
the house, and you then comeback at least keep that thing on a
leash. That's the whole point.I'm back to your argument. Yeah,
I just started. I just wentthere for the other side for a moment.
That dog should have been leashed.There was no control over that dog.
The problem is, and here's theproblem. How much is the fact
that you were on his property.Let's talk about the dog bite. How

(13:22):
serious was a dog bite? Ithurts, It hurt terribly. But when
I went to the doctor, itonly took about like two weeks. They
gave me antibiotics. Um. Imean, in the end, I'm fine.
But yeah, I did they stitchOkay, did they start? Did
they stitch it up? Jack?Yeah? They stitched it Okay, So

(13:43):
you gotta so you got a bitethat had to be stitched up. Yeah,
yeah, Well, uh it's ah, I don't think it's serious enough
for a lawyer to take. Imean, it's a case. It's a
case with some defenses the way Isee it, and I'm trying to remember
if I ever studied that in lawschool or seeing a case or not.

(14:03):
Here's the problem the way I dosee this. Uh, even if it
is a case. Uh, thedamage is not all that serious. So
you had a couple of stitches,not fun antibiotics, which of course they
give me. You're fine. Sowhat does the lawyer go for? What
is a lawyer going to get fivethousand dollars maybe three thousand dollars and get

(14:26):
the third of it and the insurancecompany there. But he was such a
jerk about it. Yeah, no, I understand, Yeah, I get
it. That makes it even worse. And he still doesn't keep it on
a leash. The dogs still noton a leash. Well, that's when
you call animal control. That's whatyou call animal control. Yeah. They
well they're going to give him acitation probably, and then if anybody reports

(14:50):
it, and you can tell them, hey, your dog is out.
I'm reporting, man, I'm acontrol pick it up. Yeah. Yeah,
so you know, make a claim. Ask him, here's what you
do you say, I want tenthousand dollars. I want five thousand dollars.
Talk to your insurance company. Ifhe says no, you see him.
You literally see him. A smallclaim scored. Whatever the doctor's bill

(15:11):
is. You are you for painand suffering. That's as you're going to
get anything. But you've got andthe judge may give you some money,
but you've got at least give himsome grief. That's why I would do.
Yeah, that's what I would do. Hi, Yes, Hi Bill.
First, I just wanted to saythank you about ten years ago,

(15:31):
maybe not that long. As aspecial ed teacher, you helped me go
after the Department of Labor for aprivate school that wouldn't pay me, and
that was successful. I really appreciateyour help. Okay, hold on,
hold on ten years ago. Iwant everybody to calendar this good legal advice
ten years ago. Okay, tellme what's going on, Lisa, excellent.
You really saved me on that andit was frustrating circumstances. I have

(15:58):
a personal injury case. I washit on the way to work. Um,
um, the foot was broke,and um it's been about nine months.
I'm at the point of providing theresponsible party. They've taken ownership of
it with the documents of my brokenfoot. UM. The issue is I
have a neuroma on the low partof my foot where it's painful to walk,

(16:22):
UM, and they may want todo surgery. I've had two Petiagrius
appointments. So my issue is I'mnot an ignorant person. I recognize you
know, I'm probably gonna have tohave a personal injury attorney. I've never
dealt with one, UM, andI know you know they charge exorbitant seeds.
No, they actually don't. Theycharge hold on a second least at
least you're gonna pay about thirty threeYou're gonna pay thirty three percent. You're

(16:45):
gonna pay about a third, andif it goes to trial, it'll be
forty. And almost every single personalinjury lawyer out there follows the same formula.
And you're not going to pay outa bo It's not like real estate
where you can negotiate that because Iyeah, yeah, but yes, but
you can, but not very much. Uh. It's more important to get
the right lawyer than it is tonegotiate, uh the percentage. And because

(17:12):
yeah, go ahead. The homeworkI've done on that is roughly like twenty
five grande twenty five grand I'm nota greedy person. It's not my intent.
I'm more concerned about the permanent painI'm thinking. Okay, so here's
what you do? Uh, andgood, good question. The first thing
is you don't. Of course,you need a personal injury lawyer because your

(17:36):
injuries are big enough that you can'tnegotiate on your own. And the PI
lawyer is going to send you tothe doctor that he or she works with,
because a lot of this has todo with how the injury is portrayed,
and not that anybody's lying here.This is not fraud that I'm talking

(17:56):
about. The insurance company is goingto try to minimize your injuries as much
as possible. Your lawyer is goingto try to maximize your injuries as much
as possible, and they'll be somewherein between. And that's why you need
as good a lawyer as you canget, who will get you to a
doctor that actually has experienced dealing withthese kinds of injuries, because, for

(18:22):
example, I go to Kaiser.Okay, I belong to Kaiser, and
let's say I get into an accidentwhere I'm very banged up and I hurt
for four months, five months,and they're gonna go okay. It takes
some ask ruin here, do alittle bit of physical therapy and you're gonna
be okay. A personal injury lawyerwill go okay. Here's where you go.

(18:42):
You go to this specialist, youdeal with therapy for X number of
months, and the bill racks up. And to be honest, medical bills
are paid under sort of this formulathe pain and suffering, which is subjective.
The more you hurt, the morethe money the medical bills involved.

(19:03):
Because the more injured you are,the more expensive the medical bills are.
And a whole formula of which companyis involved. Some companies are more liberal,
which adjuster, which lawyer is involved. So you need a personal injured
lawyer across the board, and youhave a couple of choices. You can
go to handle on the law dotcom where we have PI lawyers that have

(19:26):
been vetted and if there's a problem, I start screaming at them, or
you can get recommendations from people thatin fact have had experience. How'd you
do? What do you think youdon't want to do is go to the
state bar because they're or the countybar because they'll give you this revolving list
of lawyers, and all the good, good lawyers I know don't go to
that. They're not this panel.So those are your choices. You either

(19:49):
do it for maximum recovery or youdo it where you don't get a whole
lot of money. Depends on howimportant it is to collect money on this,
because that's all you can get.So the only question I have regarding
that you're you're right, and Iactually do have Kaiser and my doctor that
the foot up final. Okay,I'm losing right, I'm losing you.

(20:14):
And there's another issue. There's anotherissue there with Kaiser. You go to
Kaiser and you get your medical you'regonna go to a third party attorney or
you gonna go from let's say thethe I'm sorry, a third party provider,
probably at least for an examination.Kaiser provides the medical costs your attorney
collects or you collect from the responsibleparty. Kaiser has a lean and gets

(20:38):
paid back for the medical uh,the medical procedures that gave you read your
Kaiser policy. If someone else isresponsible for an injury to you, Kaiser
gets paid back. Now, whatdoes your lawyer do who's a good lawyer
negotiates with Kaiser. They want fifteenthousand dollars back or eighteen thousand dollars back.

(21:02):
Nope, we'll give you five thousanddollars. Who we're losing you Okay,
but in any case that's okay.But in any case, that's how
complicated a personal injury case is.You got all of those issues going on.
So get yourself a good lawyer.As I always suggest handle on the
law dot com, which I startedyears ago for exactly this reason. Who

(21:23):
do I go to? All?Right, there we go. I gave
up. Okay, goodbye. Igave least all the advice I possibly could
when I talk about injuries, Themore injured, the more people need a
good lawyer. How ofteny of yousaid? They said, well, Bill,
I've been injured. Now, that'snot going to do it. Now,
you know what, They're not goingto get excited about this. Hey,

(21:45):
I got in a car accident.The other side is liable, broke
my foot, need surgery, youknow, all kinds of complications. Lawyer
time, lawyer time. Okay,a similar case, Nora, except it
looks like a medical mau hollo Norah. Welcome. Yeah, Norah, you're

(22:07):
there. Yeah, okay, canyou hear me? Yes? I got
a question. I want to suethe hospital for mail practice. Okay.
I was fell down, throw outblood in the bank, and the ambulm
come take me to the hospital andthey do the headscad and they didn't do

(22:30):
anything checking or nothing, and theycut my clothes that that that all red
with blood throw away and they gaveme one ivy And then after three hours
they let me go home. Andbefore I go home, I told them
I don't feel good. I seeeverything green and I feel really weak.

(22:53):
They said, no, you gohome. You don't eat nothing all day,
and you're gonna feel better because youhave food poison. I said food
poison in my mind, I didn'teat nothing all day. In the morning,
so I go home. I towalk blood again. At six o'clock,
I don't do nothing. At twelveo'clock, really bad. I to

(23:15):
one more time. These time.I thought I'm gonna die. My heart
pound like really bad. My soncalled the ambulem, come take me to
the hospital. I am I'm staythere for five days. I have my
horselop. I look, I wantmy blood. Oh. Five days in
the hospital okay, all right,now we're getting now, we're getting a

(23:37):
little serious. Because originally I wasgonna say, you know, you thought
you were gonna die. I wishit was a family member of years calling
and said Norah did die. Butokay, so you thought you were gonna
die. You went to the hospitalfive days as a result of misdiagnosing,
and you're throwing up blood. Okay, So are you okay? Now?

(23:57):
I'm okay? But two twenty one, Yeah, it doesn't matter. It
doesn't matter. You're within well,you got three years, but you're okay
two years or three years, twoyears someone had happened. Uh uh yeah,
let me ask you this. Twentytwenty one, one month September.

(24:18):
Okay, you're all right. Whyare you waiting now? By the way,
just to let you know you're fine? But why are you waiting?
I don't know where I can foolthe hospital? Yeah, I think so,
I think you might. I thinkyou might. Uh. So you
want a medical malpractice attorney? Itry handle on the law dot com.
They have medmail. Maybe there's acase, maybe there isn't. And what
you're going to get is at leasta free consultation with someone who knows what

(24:41):
he or she is doing. Soundslike and I don't know the damage is
permanent? Is it not? Fivedays in the hospital. That's good news,
not necessarily for you, but forthe case. Uh yeah, yeah,
I would definitely talk to a medmail attorney. Leonard wants to get
paid Leonard, welcome to the show. What can I do for you?

(25:03):
I have a problem with a employerfor Leonard. Leonard are you Are you
on bluetooth? Are you on aspeaker phone? No? Yeah, I'm
on a speaker Yeah. You don'twant to do that. Yeah, you
don't want to do that. AndI'm not on a speaker phone with you.
You don't have to be on aspeaker phone with me. Okay,
maybe the speaker off. Yeah,I get the speaker off and talk into

(25:25):
the phone. Yeah, I can'tput I get speaker off there. Oh
yeah, Well we'll look it.Okay, excellent, you're yeah, you're
a techno nerd. I get itall right, let's move forward. You.
Yeah, I have a problem withan employer for I work for him
for twenty two and a half years. They decided that they were going to
sell the company and they shut itdown in April and sold it to one

(25:52):
of our customers and moved everything toTexas to re establish the company in Texas.
And they still owed me one hundredand eight thousand dollars due back expenses
that they were supposed to pay forone hundred thousand dollars a loan I gave
them. Okay, whoa, that'sa lot of everybody. Well, okay,
you've got two different issues here.The money they owe you for working

(26:17):
is one thing. The money youloan them is another thing. For the
money that you loan them, that'sjust a straight out lawsuit. Here's why
why you need the why you payme the money and why I get it,
and the money that you work forand we're not paid for actual services
that were done for them. That'sstraight wages that's controlled under different laws.

(26:41):
Problem is there in Texas. Now, I'm sorry, go ahead. The
money the money is that they owedme for was out of my pocket where
I was in Mexico setting up aplant for them. Okay, but that's
okay. But that's okay. Sothat's all. That's all loans. I
guess that's all breach of contract,although you can you that that was part
and parcel of your job description.Well, you're gonna have to sue him

(27:04):
in Texas. You have to suehim in Texas. I mean, you're
owe the money, but you canassume in California because they're not in California
and there's no one to sue here. Yeah, So total, how much
do they owe you? Total amount? Hundred eighteen thousand. Yeah, that's
worth getting a lawyer. It's worthgetting a lawyer in Texas. Yeah,

(27:26):
Okay, yeah, that's your problem. Yeah, you gotta find one in
Texas. All right, Joe,see if we can go with you?
Last call of the hour? Joe, what can I do for you?
Hi? How are you? Yes? Um? Nineteen ninety five, I
created some designs for a major,major, major, legendary rock band.

(27:49):
I was told they were going topass on the designs and not use them.
Well, a couple of years agoby and I started seeing my stuff
out there in the wild at storeslike Target, Walmart, etc. Sent
them some paperwork season desist letter froman attorney. They ignored it, and

(28:11):
to date they continue to use mywork. Okay, the starting night,
we think this started in nineteen ninetyfive, that's correct. Why didn't you
sue them. Sue them. Innineteen ninety seven after the first season desist.
Yes, so great question. I'vecontacted twenty lawyers over the years.
I've always kept on it. Everybodysays there's something called a financial forensic specialist,

(28:40):
I believe, and no lawyers goingto take it on a contingency.
And I can't afford a financial firm. That's a problem. I mean,
that's a problem because they have tofigure out because you're suing for X number
of dollars. I mean you're atyou're suing for two things. You're suing
to stop them using your artwork,Okay, that you've created. That's the
number one part of that. Alsois you're suing for monetary compensation. You're

(29:04):
saying, hey, you guys usedmy creative creativity. You've made money,
and you've made money off of mewithout my permission. You can't do that.
The problem is how much money didthey make off of your design?
You know? Is it the music? Nope, it's not the music.
It's what I designed. It's thecover design. Is what Joe is saying,

(29:26):
nothing to do with the music,And they're saying the cover design means
nothing. There people are buying theband. It's incidental, and that's the
fight you're going to have. Andthat's the reason you need an expert to
figure out, or at least toput on the table for a judge or
a jury to see that what Idid is worth X number of dollars.

(29:47):
And here's how much money the bandhas made over years, and here is
the record money, and here iswhat I'm attributing to me about it.
Art. I can see the problem. I can see the problem, and
without an expert, and no lawyeris going to come up with that.
I'll tell you that right now.No lawyer is going to do that in
contingency because that's a whole lot ofmoney to spend getting that, and they're
probably using it. There's probably noattorney's fees from the other side. I

(30:11):
mean, clearly they have a theyhave deep pockets, right, so there's
no problem. A matter of fact, that may even be the name of
the band, deep Pockets, isit? It should be okay? You
know, you have no idea howmany licenses they hold and how they continue
to use my work. You knowyou're gonna need a lawyer. But the

(30:33):
problem is you got stuck between arock and a hard place in that in
order to successfully sue them. Andyou're not the first person because there are
people you know. Ed Sheeran justgot sued by the family of Marvin Gay
saying that he stole a song thatmet Marvin Gay. And it was a
full blown case, a full blownjury trial, and you know, they

(30:56):
spent a fortune on it, andI don't think there were attorney's fees,
so you know, unfortunately, Ithink you're out of luck. All you
can say unless you're willing to payall this money to go for it and
you don't know how much you're goingto get back, I mean, all
you can do is, you know, enjoy it, look at it,
and you know, enjoy deep pocketswith your artwork. This is handle on

(31:18):
the law.