A SMNTY Interview with Jamie Summers

Friend of the show and Twitch streamer Jamie Summers opens up about her experience with the platform, its problems, how it could improve, and how it can be a space for supportive community. Bonus conversation around advice and TwitchCon.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I Never told you Protection of iHeart Radio, and today
we are very very excited to bring you an interview
segment with a lovely listener in front of the show,

(00:25):
Jamie Summers, who we got to talking and realize this
this is a whole episode, but if you haven't heard
our previous episode we just did on twitch and a
brief history of Twitch and some of the issues around Twitch,
check that one out first for some context. Jamie has
some great insights and personal experience, so we thought that

(00:46):
much just add so much to hear from somebody, because
if you've heard the previous episode, Samantha and I don't
have a lot of know how when it comes to twitch. Yeah,
I mean, I've got some ideas. The wheels are turning.
So listeners, if you got any support or like, please
don't do it. Any replies you want to give, you

(01:08):
can send them her away. But yeah, let's dive right
into this interview and today we are thrilled to be
joined by a friend of the show, general wonderful human
being who sends us things, the best thing, the best things,
Jamie Summers. Thank you so much for joining us, Jamie,
it's absolutely my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yes, s

(01:28):
a chess. We were so excited to have you because
we've been lucky enough to get to correspond with you
and get to know you through that, but this is
the first time we're seeing each other face to face
and talking. The magic of technology, that's right, remember actually
being I was on one of your live streams, though

(01:49):
there was one time that happened and I was able
to get on because I'm in Atlanta and you're in California.
Was like, oh, let mean you have to get on there.
I got to get get on there. So I'm like,
I feel like this is even better of course, but
like I've seen her heard me, uh cursing like a
sailor in the middle of the game, because I'm like,
that would be yes. And I remember one of the

(02:13):
very first when I first started working here listener males
that I responded it was from you, and it was fantastic.
Thank you. Yes, yes, yes, yes, But can you introduce
yourself to the listeners for us please? All right, Well,
my name is Jamie summers Um. I have been going
by dark Sakara since before. Some of the people who

(02:35):
watched me were born. I got the name the name
Sakara as a Japanese major, and then I moved to
California and changed my major. But I'm originally from Alabama.
I transplanted to California some couple of decades ago, and
I have been a gamer since gosh, the seventies. When

(02:59):
I was like two or three. My first movie was
Star Wars Jealous. I was nine months old, so I
don't remember anything. But I grew up playing video games
since I was a little kid, and like, I have
memories of only being able to play Frogger on roller skates.

(03:19):
Oh yeah, so I'm just all around nerd. I love
just about any game, except for like only one sports game,
which is a super high impact on Supernintendo. I love
about you left that hanging. I was like that the
sports game knows what it did. Yes, like dear sports ball.

(03:40):
Do you're saying somewhere else? Yeah? So you've been involved
in gaming for a long time. I'm curious because today
we're talking about Twitch and a lot of what's going
on with it, especially when it comes to women in
non binary folks. Because you have been involved in Twitch
for a while, can you talk about how that sort

(04:01):
of happened and how you you took your gaming to Twitch. Well,
it actually originally started with uh with my podcast because
we tried to do video casting after we were done
with Live through sixty five, which is how we used
to do it live. Um, we went to this thing
called justin TV and that kind of showed me like

(04:24):
some of the sides of of streaming in general. And well,
later on justin TV became Twitch Now. I also used
to stream doing my artwork on live stream, which was
a different service, and I was like, I like video games,
and there's the streaming service and a few of my

(04:45):
friends have talked about it. I'll give it a go.
I have a very obscure collection of video games. Um,
I like weird games. And hey, no one is streaming
hot to full boyfriend. So the pigeon dating game, so
that's new to me. There's a whole back story. I'll
sindy stuff on later started an April Fool Joke in

(05:08):
Japan is a web based game and developed the fandom.
It's like the Goose game. No, it's a dating sim
with pigeons. Wow, occup going farther and farther away, all right,
we'll come back to this later. You're not. But I
like the offbeat games like that. This is something that
people go weird. And so I started on Twitch in

(05:31):
two seventeen, um, just streaming really sporadically, but I had
some bad experiences that pushed me off the platform. And
then you know, fast forward to Pandemic and you know,
I've been playing a lot of a lot of animal
crossing and then I was looking for something new to play.

(05:51):
And so my friends like, hey, watched this streamer play
Dead by Daylight and I was like okay, and we
got to be friends, and I met other people playing
Dead by Daylight and I was like, if I am
going to learn to play this game, I'm going to
do it publicly and embarrass myself because it will keep
me playing it. So I went back on Twitch, I

(06:14):
re reactivated my channel. I started streaming my very first,
really terrible game of Dead by Daylight. And I've gotten
I've gotten better, but it's a it gives me something
to do. I get to meet new people. I I've
met a lot of people, and it was nice to

(06:35):
put faces, like in real life flesh faces instead of
video faces. When I went to Twitch Con very recently,
and the especially the Dead by Daylight community has the
lgbt q I A plus circle is pretty supportive, and
I felt welcomed almost immediately, and it encouraged me to

(06:57):
branch out into other things that I love. So I'm
also streaming classic s E S RPGs, especially ones that
either never came out over here or had remakes that
came out over here, like I'm playing Final Fantasy five
right now, and then my other obsession, Cult of the Lamb.

(07:17):
So it's basically, when I find a game that I
really love, I stream it because if I love it,
I want to share it with other people and engage
other people so where they might branch out of their
comfort zone and play different things. And on top of that, uh,
women in general, whether or not you identify completely female

(07:39):
or like me as Parai female which is mostly female
to a little such a dude thrown in, we're like
just under twent of the streamers on Twitch, and we
definitely need to have more of us out there and
we're representing, so that was another big factor for me
hopping into it. And and I'm I'm ace a sexual.

(08:02):
We are unicorns and we need to come out of
the shadows before you know, Tim Curry hunts us down.
I'm sorry, legend reference and I got that reference, thank you,
thank you. Any was confused. I actually got that reference
to currys waiting to murder me. What he plays a

(08:22):
really scary looking devil. It petrified me. It was Tom
Cruise's first film. I've talked about this, but I can't
watch the unicorn scene, but I digress. Oh my gosh. Okay, Well, so,
I love what you said about the community aspects. I'm

(08:43):
curious about that because I've never really used twitch and
so and Samantha correct me if I'm wrong. You haven't
really know very little, right, um, but that is something
that we came across when we were reading. We saw
similar numbers that you do around women, um, and also
just some of this toxicity. But we also saw a

(09:05):
lot of stuff of people saying like, but I found
this community, and I found this community. So if you
could expand on that, well, um. This also ties back
a little bit to to my show is that one
of my co hosts is out gay, and so he
introduced me to UH to the Dead by Daylight l

(09:28):
g B t Q I a community first and foremost
Rob and his husband Allen, and they both stream as well,
so it was sort of through through them that I
was able to to meet I started off meeting what
I say, the right people, you know, the people that
I could identify with, the people that felt similarly to me.
That and the community is just amazing, Like I think

(09:53):
the first person I started watching was Losing Color with
a you, um amazing dead by Daylight player um and
just a delightful human being we finally got to meet
in person, and such a delightful person. But it was
through LC that I got to meet other people, other
streamers in the community like Nick and prints um put

(10:15):
ins Um. I love everybody's names. Uh, you know, just
so many different people has lands leapin online. Just those
are but you know, but they're all guys, you know.
It was more through them than I started meeting some
of the trans women on UH in the Dead by
Daylight community, like Howdy Kelsey really amazing, really amazing player

(10:41):
or uh the Leona oou you know, like the little
energy um and and I felt encouraged by just being
friends with them. They're always ready to talk you up
when you show up in the room to give you
a shout out, and it's kind of kept me doing

(11:02):
this even when I go into my chat and I
have five people, you know. But it's the it's the
fact that people are very quick to defend each other,
you know, very quick to stand up that you know,
they'll make sure that they're in the right when they
defend somebody. UM. And on top of that, like, I'm

(11:24):
actually doing a streaming marathon on November fift to raise
money for my mom's medical bills UM, and every last
person in the community that I've reached out to says, yeah,
we'll play with you when you do it, and will
help you promote it, and you can talk about it
in our channel, and some of them have even already donated,
so and and on top of that, the other thing

(11:46):
I love about the community in general is that they
partner with streamers for a cause. Some of them do
UM raising money for medical research. Raising money for the
Trevor Project is one of the big ones that I
see for UM. For l g B t q A youth,
They're always doing fun different types of fundraisers and tournaments

(12:10):
to raise money and I like being a part of that,
given that I also am one of the Sisters of
Perpetual Indulgence. Um. Although I'm a rogue none that that
part of doing good and being charitable was seeing that
in this community. Is the other thing that that really
attracted me to this group. Yeah, and I guess for

(12:33):
the listeners who don't know, do you want to explain
what the Sisters of professional Adults? I'm said here going
I don't know if that's the real thing, so I'm
not going to ask. So the Sisters started in the
seventies in San Francisco, where a group of gay men
put on none habits to protest about the AIDS epidemic,
and it grew from there. It's now international. Um, we

(12:54):
have houses and many cities around the world. I separated
from the local house though due to issue us of misogyny. Um.
So I'm a rogue nun. I do my own thing,
but I mostly uh do work now online and with
the San Francisco House. I like them a lot. But yeah,
they they go out and raise money and help the

(13:14):
lgbt Q I a community, and you know, help with
like here. I know our group puts a lot into
the Gender Health Center here to help people with their
identity and and the Sacramentaries Foundation. So we're basically we
do the work of nuns. We go out there and

(13:35):
we do what we what we believe, except we just
look a lot more fabulous, you know, put on that
put on that drag. I even my sister name is
ve Kiki. That is some of the creative things that
I'm like, Wow, I did not know this was under
this umbrella of this community. That's amazing. One of the

(13:58):
originals with sister missionary position of course by a different
name now, but yeah, I love that. You know, I

(14:21):
don't know much about the Twitch community. The things that
I hear about are oftentimes the big stories. So of course,
you know, you hear whatever the fallout is and or
the encouraging things, because I've heard both things where people
are driven off of this platform because of the constant
harassment and or not enough security, not enough overall supervising

(14:42):
of what's going on in that type of platform. But
then of course, yeah, I've actually actually heard about people
uplifting people and bringing people into the community with open
arms and really like showing them family through online, which
we know happens in all kinds of like being a
part of the general AO. Well, you know, you know,

(15:04):
you know my spouse, but like it's kind of the
beginning of like understanding these two types of separate reactions
when it comes to Twitch. And you tell me, because
you as you have talked about before that you had
been driven off. Why do you think platforms like this
get to be so extreme or in your own experiences,

(15:25):
what makes it worth coming back to answer both questions,
I'll start with the first about the extremities with any platform,
the bigger it gets, the with more people, it's a
more chance for drama. You know, that's just the nature
of any group. And I think that with some of

(15:45):
these more highly publicized people, like what happened with Amaranth lately.
Now that wasn't anything directly related on Twitch, but it
affected her Twitch persona and how she you know, how
she had had to present it. You know, that's a
that's a terrible situation to be in. But the community
has been very polarized about it. There if there's been

(16:06):
those those jerk faces out there, I'm trying not to
use anything stronger who have like completely blasted her when
she was not in the wrong. I mean, there's been
a lot of people that's really supported her and I'm
glad she stayed on the platform to continue to do,
you know, to do her her thing, to be to

(16:26):
be who she is and actually be able to be
honest about it. There have been you know, I've been
hate rated before, when all those hate raids were going on,
you know, saying terrible things about me being Jewish, about
me being female presenting, about you know, being a queer

(16:46):
person on the internet. And of course we got that
taking care of pretty quickly, but the hate raids were
very big scene because Twitch is a target, it's an
easy target it and i'd say gamers, there's still that
rather public perception of those of us who play games

(17:07):
that we're you know, the nerds, you know, the the
we we were all super bullied in high school and
m m m. And not all of us were, with
some of us were. And I think that just that
perception requires a lot of delicate handling to dismantle. But

(17:29):
it's again part of that is what leads into the
people looking down on streaming in general. Were of course,
Amazon seemed to realize that it was gonna make a
ton of money, so they were pouring into it, so
I think and of course the bigger you get the
more open you become for for criticism, and people don't

(17:49):
know you. I mean, you may try to be your
most genuine self out there on your streams and on
the Internet and however you do it, but in the end,
people don't know you there. They don't really know who
you are unless you know, taking the time to converse
with them and get to know them as a person.
So that also leaves this big room for judgment. And

(18:14):
with the anonymity of the Internet, it's like they don't
know who I am. It's not like you know, fifteen
years ago, where I could track someone's i P for
you know, making a thread on a web forum say oh,
by the way, you live here, But now we can't.
We don't really necessarily have that ability anymore in the

(18:36):
age of VPNs and i P masking and and all
of that. So they and on top of that, there's
this other contingency that's been using twitches report policy against streamers,
especially you know, l g B, t q A plus
streamers who you know might reclaim certain terminology, but the

(18:58):
use of that terminology is against twitches t os, so
they get them banned. That happened to my friend putting's there.
There's all sorts of of drama that goes on with
such a big facility. And like again I said, the
bigger the streamer, the bigger you are a target. Um.
Of course, the more marginalized you are as a streamer,

(19:20):
the bigger the target you are too. So especially another
big thing going on with UM, with female streamers in general,
is this fetishization. Oh, you're this anomaly. You have to
look like extra hot and all of this. And I
fell into that. You know, I do my makeup every stream.
I try to look my best. And finally I said,

(19:43):
you know, screw it and shaved my head most of
my head. I'm growing it out. But it felt liberating
for me to sort of buck that convention and go, well,
your standards aren't my standards, So you take me as
you get me, and if you don't like it, you
can go just to this, you know, hot tub bikini

(20:04):
stream that apparently is a real thing right at now.
As far as the thing that keeps me on Twitch,
it's going to be things like my friends, the community.
I've built my own community in my chat. We we
all have like our little mini communities, but they all intersect,

(20:26):
like these concentric circles UM and my little community is
very supportive. You know. I have the support of my
co hosts, I have the support of my other streamer friends.
And it's really like, when when I announced about my
voice issues because I've been fighting um throat strain, the

(20:48):
amount of outpouring of love and support that I got
from my my community just by itself and from my
streamer friends, I was like, holy crap, you guys don't
know me. It will. I mean, some of them now
know me in real life things to twitch con but
it's like, you've only known me as this voice and
now with face on a channel, and you're sending out

(21:11):
this much love and support. How lucky am I? You know?
So when I go in and I've got like maybe
five people in my chat one day, those five people
are important to me because I'm not just doing it
for myself. I am doing it to provide something for
other people to build, you know, a positive place. You know. Yeah,

(21:36):
maybe I'll talk trash during a match. I'm always really
nice endgame chat, and I encourage people that I play with, Like,
because I'm on Stadia right now, I'm going to be
transitioning back to Steam using a service called Boosteroids. Since
I stream on a Mac, I'm a unicorn, but I
encourage people to um an endgame, to come into my

(21:57):
chat and say hi. Whether not they stay is one thing,
but it's again for me, part of that is stopping
this sort of salty uh negativity in games and try
to show hey, we're people, let's just be nice, you know.
So that's part of it. That is nice because I

(22:17):
my experience with gaming chat has been like I'll never do.
So I'm glad to hear that you are building and
others are building this space where it's much more supportive
and friendly and fun. Like. There's still can be competition,
but it's not like what I think most people perceive
in what I experience, So I am very happy to

(22:39):
hear that. Well. I do also have a slight ulterior
motive because my inner aries has to rear her ugly head. Um.
If I'm really nice to somebody and they continue to
be a butt about it, well they look bad and
I look awesome, But that's not why I do it
for maybe we'll never know for sure, both yeah, and

(23:05):
then I can wish them to be stuck in you know,
a windowless, doorless room full of legos, barefoot. Oh yeah,
that's my favorite curse. That's a good one. That's a
good one. One of the things that we read was
for women who are gamers and streamers on Twitch would

(23:27):
get a lot of like criticism about their looks, but also, oh,
you're not a real gamer. Have you gotten stuff like that?
I have for playing dating sims until like the majority
though of my uh, I would say, of my male
viewership tends to be gay me in um, you know,

(23:47):
and and a few uh a few straight guys that
are in there watching me. Are they like the same
kind of quirky stuff that I do? But I have
gotten the oh dating sim as an real game? Or
why don't you play a Call of Duty? And I'm like,
I don't like Call of Duty. I like that by daylight.

(24:08):
I you know, I play what I like in to
hell with what anybody else thinks of me playing it.
I mean, I I have built a really thick skin
over the last you know, twenty years of doing of
you know, just being a female on the internet. You know,

(24:29):
my own show started twenty years ago. We've been we
had our twentieth anniversary this year and My first email
feedback was she should stop talking and go make a sandwich. Wow. Original,
Why can't they be creative? I was like, well, of course,
I'll make a sandwich for me and then I'll come

(24:50):
back sandwiches. Sandwiches are awesome. You can't have my sandwich
is mine now. But this is the thing, is that
I just stopped caring. You know, I don't care. If
someone you know wants to criticize it, that's their problem.
It's not mine, you know. I I play what I
like and if they don't like it, they don't have

(25:10):
to stay in my channel, and I will tell them so.
And if they remain in my channels saying these things,
I will make sure they cannot say them. With the
band button, I will slam that band hammer down faster
than you can blink do. I do not have to
put up with that crap. It's my channel. I'll say
what I want. There you go, yeah, well, I guess.

(25:30):
Kind of speaking of what are some of the tools
you've seen some improvements on Twitch, perhaps when it comes
to things like harassment um for instance, And then what
in what ways do you think Twitch could improve? I
will say that one of the first things that has
been positive with them adding in the custom tags where

(25:56):
you can tag your own channel as you know, whatever
wanted to be, like I use the Jewish tag, I
use the a sexual tag, I use the l g
B t Q A plus, and those help you bring
in more people who are going to be more in
your quote group unquote. Um. That helps. Of course, it
can make people a target. So they also have in

(26:18):
the whole verified user system now where you can set
up this security to where um, they have to verify
their Twitch account first instead of just making a burner
with a button on my stream deck, I can change
my chat to follower only, I can change it to
subscriber only, I can change it to emote only if

(26:41):
I want. You know, and that those tools are really useful.
That said, there are a few other things that that
can be done, like like what happened with my friend
Putting's Now, this was before some of this was implemented,
so I will throw that bone out there, but he

(27:01):
was banned for a month during Pride Week when he
had all this stuff planned because someone came in and
dropped the three letter F bomb on him and he
said it back because it's a reclamation right and but
they still abandoned for it, and the appeal system wasn't

(27:22):
conducive to help actual innocent people. So I think their
appeal system definitely needs some work. I think that there
should also be I'm not going to necessarily say like
a three strikes rule, because again, the appeal system is
kind of right now that's my description, but I think

(27:44):
that they could have better moderation. Better moderation. I think
that they also need to realize that people don't just
game on PC. We have Macinlyn excusers and have more
tools open for people on those platforms. I think that
they all show should really put a lot of effort

(28:08):
into promoting their female presenting streamers, especially they're streamers of color. UM.
I am a big fan of the Sisters of Fog,
which is a streaming group of women and female presenting
people of color who play Dead by Daylight, wonderful group
Team technicolor other persons of color who played Dead by

(28:31):
Daylight in other games. I think that they need to
to really make sure that they're doing more to promote
their marginalized streamers. They are doing a lot of really
good things with charity, um, you know, they have uh
this whole charity system now built in where you can

(28:52):
run a fundraising stream that every bit sub payment, all
of that goes to your charity of choice, and Twitch
gets nothing out of it, no money. They just help.
And I think that making sure that they audit the
causes that are allowable on there, make sure that that
money is going to go to reputable resources, you know,

(29:16):
like they may say, oh, we're women's health organization, but
it's really like you know, Christian Coalition. No, they definitely
need their audit system to to be top notch for
something like that. But those are just like the off
of the top of my head things. I mean, I'm
sure if I sat down and really matalist, I would

(29:36):
have a novel. But I also believe be critical of
the things that you love. This year they did a
twitch Con. I just heard of the disasters this year

(29:58):
also the good things, but the does but like I said,
I don't get them big news. Um, but yeah, you
went this year, Can you kind of tell us about
your experience and all with all that? Oh? Yeah, so
this was the first twitch Con back since the pandemic,
and it was it was bigger than I thought it
would be. And I've done my fair share of conventions,

(30:18):
you know, automy XPO, fantome gam Er X when it
was a thing. One of these days, dragon Con one
of these days that Twitch Con was was pretty amazing. Um,
I didn't meet anybody I didn't like. First of all,
everyone was pretty supportive of me. There was even some
decent costplay, you know we I costplayed. I did too,

(30:40):
did By Daylight ones. Um I did uh Julie of
the Legion, which my mask broke and I lost my knife,
and I did the pig as in the same pig
from Saul, but a special cosmetic that used in Dead
by Daylight. There was a big daddy. There was a
repped are from Regrats. Yeah, there's there's like a scarlet

(31:06):
witch cross player around, you know, just just it was.
It was fun, but I didn't feel that same sort
of let me take your picture. In fifty other people
saying let me take your picture, it was like, oh yeah,
can I get a snap? And more people wanted like
a character selfie. It was kind of fun. I liked it,
but they had a drag show and I knew just

(31:28):
about all of the queens on their I was regulars
in their channels, like Lyndon Bradshaw did a mental health
themed UH performance. Marisaw Lords another great one. Um. But
the drag show was new and it really was just
this major outpouring of positivity and support for the community.

(31:51):
Um I that was for me like the highlight of
the con next to meeting my friends. They had an
artist Ali that I talked to. It actually a couple
of the artists and apparently this year they didn't have
to pay a fee. Twitch reached out to them to
have a booth in the artist sally and so it was.
It was really positive that way. Um. The staff was amazing,

(32:15):
except for um, some of the vendors there, which we
There was the jousting drama this uh one streamer they
had like this jousting pad kind of an old American
gladiator style, you know, with the big foam bats, and
the pit was full of these phone blocks, like the
kind that you fall into as a stunt, right. But

(32:37):
what they didn't show is that it was quite shallow
and I mean and the people had to wade through
it to get up on the platforms. But the thing
is it's very deceptive and this one streamer and for
the life of me, now I can't remember her name
off the top of my head, but she's pretty vocal
about it on Twitter. She won her match, it was great.

(32:57):
She did like a full on cheerleading ump off of
the platform and landed in the film, but she landed
on her tailbone and she ended up breaking her back
in a couple of places and actually had to have surgery.
And can I list a trigger warning right now? She miscarried.

(33:19):
She didn't know she was pregnant. She ended up miscarrying,
And so yeah, screw signing an agreement you know of
non liability. They need to be held accountable for it.
Um another Streamerum damaged her knee pretty badly doing that.
The the amount of oversight on at least those stunts there,

(33:42):
they needed a lot more. Definitely didn't seem like if
it was up to any code. It was the bare
minimum code. And then they had this other little competition
where you it's like you would play like with your
siblings in the house. She keep the balloon in the
air and they tried to recreate it like with furniture
and stuff, and people hurt themselves doing that. Although in

(34:02):
the positive note, they did have some wheelchair users play
the game. Too, so they got to participate. But still,
you know, um, there was a lot of corporate presence,
not necessarily the Twitch Amazon side of it, but they
had a ball pit that was full of those little

(34:23):
you know, ballpit balls and Velvina shells and cheese, the
individual packets, and they were just giving away that and
I was like free food. Okay. Wendy's had a present um.
Capital One had a presence, and they had like some
deal that if you buy Twitch merch with Capital One
then you get a discount. And I was just like,

(34:43):
how about like putting a placard on the wall and
not giving them their own big booth. Maybe not all
streamers are that, I would say, mature with credit. There
was a lot of money spent. I spent a lot
of money. I'm terrible. But it was long, like that

(35:06):
main floor this is the San Diego Convention Center, you
know where they do uh Comic Con, And it was long,
but you had only two ways upstairs. There was an elevator,
but it was kind of out of the way, so
you had these two staircases at the very end of

(35:27):
one of the bottom hall and the very end of
the other. But they're only letting you into the building
through late gate. I think it was like C and
D in the middle um or kind of in the middle,
and to get around the upstairs you had to do
a lot of walking to get to some of the
convention rooms. And then there was there was like this

(35:48):
little cabana area, but they also had like the special
area for Twitch partners. I'm only an affiliate one day,
but but there was a lot of really preferential treatment
to the partners. And becoming a partner is pretty difficult

(36:08):
and pretty arduous. Some people have to reapply so many
times after they meet the requirements, and I think that
there there should have been I mean, affiliates got some swag,
I mean, yea a pen and some stickers, but I
think that there should have been a little bit more.

(36:30):
I agree the partners they should get some extra perks,
but I think the affiliates probably could have deserved to
get a little bit more as well, because we're I
think affiliates are the bulk of the Twitch streamers. So
the overall was a fun experience. You know, they had
food vendors and I got to eat pretzels and never

(36:51):
get anti as pretzels, and they had them and just
meeting with friends, but it was pretty pretty crowded the
first couple of days. I'm glad you've got such a
good time. Yeah, yeah, well I know this. This question
is always like, but if you have any like quick

(37:12):
advice for any listeners here, like maybe I want to
get more into twitch, maybe I want to start streaming,
what would you tell them? There's a few things. Number one,
be consistent. Have a schedule. Hello. A lot of people
don't publish a schedule or just a stream whenever they
want to. But having a schedule means that your your
community as it grows, will know when you're going to

(37:35):
be there, and even if you have to change that schedule,
like I have to from my work because we get
new schedules every six months. I published my new streaming
schedule well in advance. I have a pinned post on
my Twitter that says here's what my schedule will be
as of this time, and put it out there so
people know not just where to find you, but when

(37:56):
to find you. Put where you're going to play on
that day. If it's going to be random game, to
say hey, it's going to be random game, don't be
afraid to toot your own horn. Don't go advertising in
other people's channels. But and I'm not meaning this to
say use the people that you meet to advertise yourself.
But build relationships with other streamers. You know, they you

(38:19):
promote them, they promote you. It's like the community deal.
We all uplift each other, you know. And the biggest
thing is like, don't go into another streamer's chat and
be a jerk. Never do chat. But um, having a
discord is very important because it keeps your community working

(38:41):
together while you're not live, and you can use it
to announce events and to you know, say like if
you say that you have malaria and you have to
cancel the stream, that's it. That's extreme. But you can
do a post, Hey I'm an hospital with malaria. I

(39:01):
can't stream tonight, you know. And you know, and it
also you know, just having those those moments where you're
real with people. Don't don't build up a persona so
much as just be yourself. Talk about real life stuff,
get to know people, Ask people in your chat how
their days going, you know, be nice, be consistent, that's

(39:26):
the that's the biggest things. And don't give up. I've
I've been back for a year. I just top the
five follower mark, not too terribly long ago. It takes time,
it takes effort, and it takes just putting yourself out there.
Don't don't be afraid to put out yeah in the

(39:49):
right way. And business cards. If you go to twitch
corn have a business card. It makes a difference. Okay.
Uh And speaking from woting other people, I know you
sent some recommendations. Is there are there any streamers you'd
like to shout out? Well? Um, I would actually like
to to my my podcast horn with you know. UM.

(40:12):
I do a show called Orange Lounge Radio. We record
live on Twitch at Vogue Network Victor Oscar Golf Network
Voice of Geeks along with our friend Bobby black Wolf
does a wonderful show and he also streams on his
own channel, Bobby black Wolf. Rob Roberts is one channel.
Alan Alchemy is Rob's husband. Loki O l R. Is

(40:32):
my other co host and he does Minecraft. And then
for the Dead by Daylight community, there's Howdy Kelsey, wonderful friend,
really fun streamer. There's uh the Ladybird Um a mama
streamer also plays Dead by Daylight. Uh, there is Uh,
It's me Holly just made partner not long ago. Wonderful

(40:55):
Streamers does Scary Games. She's hilarious. Um Miss Barne Australian
stream er um what also plays Dead by Daylight, plays
the Scary Games, plays that Disney game that everyone's doing
art by Kingdom hearts No, like the Disney Magical Adventure
or whatever it's called, where it's kind of like like

(41:16):
a sim Oh, there you go and do tasks for people.
It's okay, it's interesting. Some people are playing VHS, which
is sort of like they said it was going to
be the Dead by Daylight Killer, but it's so different
from Dead by Daylight. But it's still an asymmetrical survival game. UM.
And then as far as uh others in the lgbt

(41:37):
q i A community, there's a losing color uh nick
and prints that's an N in the middle. Put in
pu d d n Z lapin online as in lapin
like rabbit l A p I N. I feel kind
of sad for not mentioning everyone's name. Black sikin O
two wonderful streamer Empire TV. Also from where I grew

(41:59):
up in Alabama, although I know you and I have
had a mutual growing up spot in Alabama have strange enough. Yeah,
I know, I thought that was so funny. You know,
all those doth in summers, right, yeah summers. Don't get
me started on my allergies when I go visit family there.

(42:23):
But but yeah, just tons of streamers, you know, any
one of those people that I mentioned, people who show
up in their chat are also worth visiting. Their wonderful people, intoxicated, uh, dese, nuts,
c a, um, fluffy, all kinds of people. They're all
just delightful human beings, very supportive and our circle's intersect.

(42:46):
So if you go to one, you'll go to another.
Um check out my page because I have recommendations right
on my Twitch page. It's Dark Sacra Underscore O l
R oscar Lima Romeo for Orange Longe Radio. Um but
d A r K s a K you are a
like Cherry Blossom Underscore O l R. You know, go there.
I have all kinds of you know, people that I

(43:08):
recommend right on my Twitch page. And you know, if
it's anyone wants to hit me up for more recommendations
on on Twitter at dark Soccarra. I don't do the
Facebook fair enough. Yeah, And if you're a streamer listening
to this and you want to network. I'm more than
happy to to help other streamers you know that that

(43:32):
want a hand up or want a friend. I'm more
than happy to be there to do what I can.
We have to uplift each other. I love seeing this
supportive thing that you were you're talking about, So yes, listeners,
go find Jamie Summers. Um, thank you, thank you, thank
you so much for coming on and talking with us

(43:52):
about this. Thank you for telling me I'm this is
the highlight of my day. We can make the day.
I love it, um, and I hope the episode does.
You're proud, but yes, thank you and thank you for
all your your support through these years. We really really
appreciate it. If I may, Yes, this is the way

(44:15):
I end my streams. Be kind to yourself, be kind
to others. Go forth and conquer. You got this? Yes?
I love it? Um. Is there any place uh you
want to shout out where the listeners can find you
other that you haven't already said? Um? I am on
Instagram sometimes at Dark Sacra um my TikTok is Dark

(44:36):
Sacra Underscore o l R. I mostly do videos of
my cat and my pinball collection. My spouse and I
are super into actual real pinball, so uh and and
sometimes I'll just do myself cavetting about things, and I
will sometimes repost clips from me playing a game on there.
So yeah, find me on TikTok and be extremely bored. Um.

(45:00):
But yeah, the rest of my stuff is actually linked
directly through my Twitter channels, so you can also just
follow links there. It's easier, yeah, easy, easy, all right, Well,
thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, Yes,
and go forth and conquer. Yes and listeners. If you
don't like to contact us, you can. Our email is

(45:21):
stuff of your Mom stuff at ihart me you dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at moms to podcasts,
or on Instagram and stuff We'll Never Told You. Thanks
as always to our super producer, Christy, thank you and
thank you for listening. Stuff I Never Told the production
by Heart Radio More podcast for my Heart Radio. You
can check out there heart Radio ap Apple podcast wherever
you listen to your favorite shows