April 25, 2012 • 34 mins
Susan Cain's book "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking" has generated a surge of interest in introverts. But are introverts getting a fair shake? Join Caroline and Cristen as they take a closer look at introversion.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom never told you?
From House stuffwoards dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about
(00:21):
introversion and extroversion, a lot of which was kicked off
by the publication of a book by Susan Caine, who
is a former lawyer. UM. She wrote the book called Quiet,
The Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking.
And if you've heard about this book, no big surprise,
because she went on a huge media tour and the
(00:46):
book shot up the New York Times bestseller list. Sitting
spent a while. There might still be on there. She
should have checked before we came into the studio. UM,
but it seemed like Kane received so much uh praise
and almost size of relief from people saying, oh, fantastic,
(01:07):
introversion is not necessarily a bad thing. No, it's definitely
not a bad thing she was telling I think she
did an interview with Arianna Huffington's UM where she said
that when she would tell people what the topic was
that she was writing, about she got so many relieved
responses and people just saying, oh my gosh, let me
tell you about my experience. And these people were introverts,
(01:29):
which just goes to prove introverts do talk yes well.
In the interview, Arianna Huffington's um talked about how she
was an extreme introvert as a child and had this
anecdote of what I think it was her fifth birthday?
Was it the birthday? Um? At her fifth birthday party,
she apparently kicked all of the kids out because she
(01:51):
just wanted to hold up and read Arianna Huffington's you Know,
media Mogul. She said that as she grew up, she
tried to cultivate eight more extroverted tendencies because you do
reap so many benefits from it. But the point of
it is, um, introversion is not a bad thing. And
there was also a quiz from Quiet the Power of
(02:13):
Introverts in the world that can't stop talking to detect
whether or not you are an introvert or an extrovert.
I took the quiz, do you have any idea how?
I scored about half and half a little more introverted.
I am so far on the introvert scale intensely introverted. Huh, well,
(02:34):
I think that what you're saying is highlighting perfectly the
theme of everything that we read, which is that society
tends to view introverts as really shy people who just
have no social skills. And Kristen Conger is definitely not
like that, I assure you people, And so I think
that's interesting. Yeah, for sure. I took the quiz to
(02:56):
I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no no, I
take it, I take it back, take it back, and
I phone a friend. No, I guess that you are
extremely extroverted. I I don't remember the exact numbers, but yeah,
I am. There were a lot of falses because all
of the statements were introvert related, and it was you
had to answer true false, and I had way more
(03:19):
falses than I did true's. It would be interesting compare
to compare a where we were opposite on those where
I was a true and you were true for introvert
and you were false for it. Yeah. I forgot to
write some of those down. There was one I gave
the quiz to my roommate who was actually according to
this and it is an unscientific quiz. But according to
the quiz, he is way more introverted than either one
(03:40):
of us thought. But one of the ones that he
wrote false four was people described me as soft spoken
and mellow, because if you knew my roommate, he is
definitely not either of those things. Yeah, I put I
put false on that as well, because I have such
a grading vocal tone. But let's talk about introversion versus extroversion.
Why do we often get this confused? How does Susan
(04:03):
Caine offer a broader perspective on introversion and extroversion, which,
according to personality psychologists, is the single most important aspect
of our personality, whether we're introreted or extraverted or yes,
it determines things like our choice of friends and partners,
how we make conversation and resolve differences and show love.
(04:26):
It helps determine our careers. For instance, extroverts tend to
exercise more, cheat on their partners more, and make riskier
bets on the stock market, even I wouldn't even know
how to do that. Don't take an extrovert to vegas apparently,
And then introverts like meat and to function well without sleep.
(04:47):
I can crouchy can't learn from mistakes and make well
balanced team leaders. Good. Good for you. I apparently I
am a terrible person. I had no idea. Um. Yeah,
According to Kane, really an introvert has to do with
how the person responds to stimuli, and introverts really prefer
(05:07):
lower stimulation environments and are not poor. They don't have
poor social skills. They are differently social, right, Um, it
just has to do with that lower stimulation. Like you mentioned,
She often brings up this contrast of whereas an introvert
would prefer to have a glass of wine with a
friend and have a long, deep conversation, an extrovert would
probably prefer to go to a party where they could
(05:30):
meet a number of new people. Um. And she even
told this scientific American that introverts salivate even more than
extroverts do if you place a drop of lemon juice
on their tongue. It's like we're more more primed for
stimulation to get overwhelmed more quickly. Interesting. That's really weird.
(05:51):
But but it is not to imply that introverts are
inherently shy, right, Because shyness, as Kane goes on to
talk about, is the fear of social judgment wine a
quieter setting, preferring that glass of wine with a friend
does not mean that we are shy, although I definitely
have shy tendencies, and psychologists do associate shyness with introversion,
(06:14):
but they are not um one and the same, right.
I mean, I think you, an extrovert, can be shy
in certain situations too. I definitely have moments where I
am socially afraid. Um. But she talks about how our
culture seems to just value extroverts more, how everything in
our culture, from classrooms to work settings is geared towards extroverts,
(06:36):
and she says that this is part of our cultural
d n A and that Americans in particular favorite action
over contemplation. She said. Kane says that this became really
important at the turn of the twentieth century. Uh, when
there was the rise of cinema and movie stars, and
all of a sudden, it became so important to be
magnetic and charismatic, and that has carried over and now
(06:56):
if you're not magnetic and charismatic and something like a
job interview you you might not get the job. Yeah.
She She talks about the cultural history of introversion and
extra version, and how extra version really became the coveted
personality trait around the nineteen fifties, because you have the
(07:16):
rise of corporate America, you have the rise of cinema
and television. UM. There's a psychologist at the University of Minnesota,
Denise as Owns, who found that since television began, Americans
have elected more extroverted presidents than introverted ones, possibly reflecting
this UH idealization of magnetism and charm. There's that famous
(07:40):
story about the presidential debate between Richard Nixon and JFK.
Was gonna be the first UM televised presidential debate and
JFK one hands down because Nixon just he didn't he
didn't look as well on TV. He I think he
refused to get makeup. Yeah, and he was. He was sweaty,
both from the temperature and from nerves. I guess Kennedy
(08:01):
got to sit in a in an air conditioned area beforehand.
So TV man ruins everything, right. And if you think
about presidential campaigns now, ones that are going on now,
so much of it is based on on on personality,
whereas if you go back to the time of Abraham Lincoln.
He was a man of strong character. It was the
(08:22):
culture of character, sort of the strong but silent type, right.
And there's a lot to do with extroverts and introverts
and relationships, whether they're in a relationship with each other
or someone of the same personality type. And like Kristen
mentioned earlier, an introvert is more likely to pursue deep
and meaningful conversations, whereas an extrovert kind of tends to
(08:43):
stay on the surface and bounce around to two different
topics with different people. And Sophia Dimmling has done a
lot of blogging about introversion for Psychology Today, and she
said that if you're in a relationship with someone of
a different personality type than you, you should try to
respect your partner's differences and recognize that they can enhance
your relationship. For instance, an extrovert can bring new people
(09:05):
into your life, whereas an introvert can create more peaceful
spaces in the home and the relationship. Yeah, like Susan
Kane Um, Sophia Denmling is always also an introvert working
on a book about introverts um. I think her book
is coming out in two thousand and twelve later on
this year. And it's interesting that that both of these
(09:25):
books are really sort of reclaiming the value of introversion
in today's culture, saying, you know what, it's not even
even though everything is is so dominated by social media
and sharing and putting yourself out there. Um, we don't
need to lose sight of these very powerful traits that
go along with introversion. And for parents today, I'm sure
(09:48):
that can be a challenging thing to reconcile as you're
raising kids that might tend toward the shire side because
schools are set up in more extroverted fostering atmospheres um
in we um, you know, and and children will internalize.
I mean, I remember being called shy as a child,
and kids tend to internalize that association of of shyness
(10:10):
and introversion as being a negative thing. And I remember being,
you know, I was. We did our Only Child podcast
and talked about how only children are more likely to
associate with adults and be like little adults, and I was.
I just remember being a kid and getting positive feedback
over and over again because of how open I was
with grown ups, and they were like, oh my gosh,
you know, she's so talkative and everything. And so there
(10:32):
is that um that encouragement for one way or another.
And you know, if you have introverted parents, they might
encourage the more bookish behavior. And talking about parents and kids,
uh this There was a really interesting article on parents
dot com. Several psychologists are pointing out that parents are
putting a lot of value on making their children sociable,
(10:55):
setting up lots of play dates, getting really concerned if
their kids don't have a lot of friends at school,
instead of just sort of letting them be as they are,
letting them just have a close, tight knit group of
friends instead of having a ton of friends. And William Doherty,
a professor of family social science at the University of Minnesota,
so that if we coach kids not to be who
(11:15):
they are, we communicate a lack of acceptance. So people
who tell you, Kristen, stop being so shy, come out
of your shell. That's like, okay, well, stop being who
you're naturally inclined to be. Well, it seems like that
um that anxiety over socializing kids enough, making sure that
they have enough play dates and get along well enough
is more of the along the trend of helicopter parenting
(11:38):
over parenting that has fallen somewhat out of favor. Um,
because it is so hyperactive in a way, there's there's
so much value of free time, of letting kids maybe
foster more introverted traits. Not to say that socializing kids
is very important, says the former homeschooler, but um over
(12:01):
scheduling a kid and being an over emphasizing um, their
social activities might not be so positive either. And the
thing that parents need to remember is that shy kids
tend to grow out of their shyness. Now, while it
might take some kids longer than others, there was a
study from a Harvard psychologist that followed two d and
(12:23):
fifty children from infancy and showed that two thirds of
the kids who were shy as three year olds had
come out of their shells by age eleven. Even if
they weren't necessarily social butterflies, they still have their social moments,
but that extreme shyness does gradually wear away a lot
of the time. Yeah, um, it is good to point out,
(12:46):
I think the effect that a kid's personality can have
on their education. Though, because as Linda Kreeger Silverman points out,
she's the director of the Gifted Development Center in Denver.
Introverted children are less likely to be minuted to a
prestigious private school because they tend to clam up in
an interview. They're not gregarious, they're not showing off, you know,
(13:06):
their little child block building skills. And I mean, I
remember it because I went to I grew up going
to a private school, and I remember my interview and
it was terrifying. I remember I couldn't add twenty two
and seven. I was like, how can anyone do this?
This is impossible? But I also remember being kind of giggle. Ay,
So I don't know how old were you, six or seven.
(13:30):
It's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure.
Interview with child well. Susan Kane Um, the author of Quiet,
would also point out that the school setting and the
big classroom environment is really forcing a lot of kids
to be extroverted instead of paying more attention to more
introverted one on one um learning. Um. She says that
(13:52):
the emphasis on group activities discounts a lot of kids
natural preferences to work alone. I mean, I think that
probably I'm schooling, to be honest, fostered a lot of
my introversion. I did work by myself. A lot of
the times it was self directed study, which you could
say might have been um a negative thing in terms
of socializing. There was an adjustment once I finally got
(14:15):
into a classroom setting. It was a learning curve for me.
But when it came time for say college, and I
had to study a lot on my own, oh man,
I could sit down and do it easy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And all of this stuff from school carries right on
into work because we have this culture of brainstorming and
group meetings and open plan cubicles where we're all sort
(14:38):
of smushed together, no doors, no chance for privacy or
solo work, and that's really not the best environment for
almost half of the population. Yeah. Jennet Gaudreau over at
Forbes points out that the amount of personal space allotted
to employees in the workplace has shrunk six since the
nineteen seventies, and we usually have about oh two square
(15:01):
feet a personal space, and that idea of the value
of brainstorming really was pioneered in the nineteen fifties by
an executive named Alex Osborne, and it's only been until
recently the organizational psychologists are starting to call into question
whether or not getting into a room with a bunch
(15:21):
of people and some magic markers is all that effective. Yeah,
I hate it. Personally, I'm just gonna throw the The
extrovert does not like brainstorming. I like, I don't mind
big meetings like if if there's a staff meeting or whatever.
I don't mind big meetings with a lot of people
where I can throw my ideas that I'm I'm totally
fine doing that. But there's something about a meeting where
(15:44):
you're forced to go in and like trade ideas and
offer something up. Because that I feel sometimes like I'm
kind of more half and half introvert extrovert, and part
of my introverted tendency um and this this I read
about from Kane is that sometimes I get my best
years after I leave the meeting because I'm so focused
on like, okay, think of something. What do they saying, Well,
they still my idea? Well what can I offer up?
(16:07):
And so then there's a little bit of anxiety and
by the time I get back to my desk of like, well,
I guess I have to email that idea. Well. That's
why psychologist would point out that having free time and
understanding how to be by yourself is so important because
it's a lot of times in those open spaces that
you allow yourself to flow. And I'm saying flow in
(16:28):
quotes because that is the you know, this um psychological
theory of how create. You can foster creativity not through
trying to force something out in a room with a
magic marker, having to write down as many ideas as possible,
but in more relaxed and open spaces. Right and Jenna
Gudreau who you who you mentioned? In her interview with Kane,
(16:49):
She points out that charismatic leaders, these extroverts that we
come to rely on, may earn bigger paychecks, but they
don't necessarily have better corporate performance because a lot of
times an extroverted boss will, whether they mean to or not,
end up, as she says, put her stamp on things
because of her stamp on things, whereas an introverted leader
(17:10):
might just say, hey, run with your ideas, develop them
and then you know, and then we'll talk about it.
She also points out that brainstorming can resolve in lower
quality ideas because some of the more vocally assertive extroverts
are the only ones getting their voices heard. Well, that's
The tricky thing about extroversion and introversion in the office
places that for UM introverts like me, we have a
(17:34):
statistically lower chance of being groomed for a leadership because
the modern workplace does value extroversions so much. And UM
Adam grant Over at University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School UM
conducted studies finding that introverted leaders actually have better UM
leadership capabilities when working with proactive employees because kind of
(17:59):
like you were talking king about UM, which in a
Gudreaus reporting over at Forbes, introverted leaders tend to UM,
I guess cultivate employee ideas more so than extroverted leaders
might turn a blind a blind eye to them because
they're they want to show off their own capabilities a
(18:20):
little bit more. Yeah, well, there is a lot of
advice about how to work together because if if you're
a loud, talkative, confident extrovert, but you're quiet, confident introvert
coworker isn't responding to you in the in the way
that you want, or vice versa UM, it can cause
some conflict. And Business Week says that if you're an
introvert managing extroverts, you need to recognize that those people
(18:44):
thrive on working with others and they are able to
make sense of the world by talking about at first
and thinking about it as they go, which is so
true for me. I I'm a bit of a talker,
so maybe I'm in the in the right field. But
if I'm having a problem, like I absolutely need to
talk it through, and you know, writing it down does
help and working it through that way. But if I'm
(19:05):
having a problem personal or work related, I run my mouth.
But they also say that, you know, they warn introverted
managers that you're extrovert. Employees tend not to delve very
deep when discussing issues, but they are comfortable at multitasking
and moving at a quick pace, so maybe they can
get things done at the same time. So it sounds
like it's pretty basic advice to recognize that if you're
(19:28):
an extrovert, that introverts exist and have different skill sets
and you do, and vice versa for introverts recognizing and
managing extroverts and not allowing themselves to be just drowned
out by extroverts excessive talking. Looking at you, Oh no, no,
it's not just excessive talking. I say that I say
(19:49):
that in gest um. But let's move out of the
workplace into the history books to find out where this
idea of introver version and extra version came into being
and why it even exists with what the science behind
these two um personality traits is. Yeah, it all comes
(20:11):
from Carl Young. Basically, he he coined the term introvert
in the ninet twenties to describe a person who becomes
emotionally and physically worn out from being around people for
a long time. And researcher indicates that this is actually
tied in with how their nervous systems are wired, and
Kristen kind of touched on that when she mentioned her
weird lemon drop thing on the tongue. Yes as a
(20:32):
quick refresher, Susan Kine told Scientific American the introverts will
salivate more than extroverts if you put a drop of
lemon juice on their tongues and um. While it is
not exactly the same neuropathways, neuroscience researcher and psychoanalyst Marty
Olson Laney found that the dopamine produced during a party
(20:54):
will give extroverted kids a boost. In other words, they
can kind of stand more of it while it overload
an introverted child circus and circuit and make them want
to have a time out, leave, go read their books
like Arianna Huffington's UM. So, so it seems like there's
it's that it goes back to that idea of stimulation.
(21:15):
What is Introverted people tend to have the lower threshold
of stimulation, whether it's for lemon juice or dopamine production,
perhaps than extroverted kids. Right, And I guess it's it's
I can understand it. I can understand the introverted person's
um need to sort of get away from that, But
it takes a whole lot more for me to feel
(21:37):
like that, like I need to be out doing something
all weekend long before I feel like, oh my god,
I need to go sit in my room and close
the door. Whereas it sounds like an introverted person might
good alloud party and spend a couple of hours there
and be like, I don't know about that. I actually
have a friend who's a high school teacher and at
the end of the day he needs to just go
(21:57):
home and sit because he has been in front of
a bunch of teenagers all day long, talking NonStop, and
that's not his natural sort of presentation of himself to
the world. Well, perhaps that relates to the fact that
going going on this topic of brain science, introverts tend
to show more activity in regions that regulate rest and digestion,
(22:21):
whereas outgoing children will show more brain activity in the
fight or flight region. So again it seems to be this, Uh,
it does go back to that issue of stimulation in
what areas of the body are um more active than others.
And I think we should probably talk about two nature
(22:42):
versus nurture, because you mentioned your homeschooling experience and how
that might have fostered more of an introverted outlook. But
there's this two thousand eleven study from University of California
at Santa Barbara which tied extra version to looking strong
and attractive. Which is not to say that all good
looking people are naturally extroverted, but they have the theory
(23:03):
about how good looking, strong babies and children are rewarded
with a lot of good intention, a lot of cuci
que belly scratchen um, which causes them to sort of
mirror that and and respond in a in a positive way. Also, right,
The psychologist based this theory on UM a term from
personality psychology called facultative calibration, which is basically a process
(23:27):
by which genetic traits and in this case, strength and
attractiveness influence your personality. Because personality psychologists will UM usually
say that a lot of our personality traits are heritable.
We do get certain traits from our parents and our grandparents,
but it's difficult to pinpoint which genes control for which
(23:51):
personality trait UM. So in this study of from University
of California, Santa Barbara, they calculated that twenty four percent
of extroversion variants could be explained by the variables of
physical strength and physical attractiveness because of that positive feedback
loop from essentially people saying, well, my goodness, you are
(24:14):
a handsome, strong looking child. High five. UM. One of
the researchers did point out to Dimbling, who we talked
about earlier, that UM, it is possible for it to
go the other way too, that someone who is naturally
wired to be extroverted, if they are rewarded and encouraged
to be to exhibit more introverted behavior, they might veer
(24:37):
more toward that way. Even though something in their brain
is like go to a party. Go to a party.
They might sit home and read a book because that's
what their parents do, that's what they're expected to do.
But that's a relief though, especially as someone who does
apparently sit so far on the introversion spectrum, it is
a relief to know that there is such an interplay
(24:58):
of nature versus nurture, that are our personality is not
completely fixed in that way. Sure exactly. Um Dimpling did
take issue with with some of the methods in this
University California study because they keep referring to it as
an extra version continuum, and she just sort of took
issue with the idea that introversion is the negative end
(25:21):
of the extra version spectrum. But that would kind of
exist too. If you think about the big five personality
traits that come up in psychology a lot, which are
extra version, openness, conscientiousness, agreeableness, and neuroticism. And neuroticism aside,
it seems like those those other four are all, you know,
positively associated in our brain. It's they're they're the socially
(25:45):
desirable traits. But that might have to do with that
cultural shift from a culture of character to a culture
of personality, so speaking of traits that run in families
and nature versus nurture. The British Journal of Psychiatry in
two thousand two published a study that found no difference
really between the extra version scores for men and women,
(26:07):
but it was looking at certain traits and siblings, and
found that scores on extra version and neuroticism, speaking of
neuroticism are substantially genetically influenced, so there is some of
that inheritability and also adding some credence of the idea
of extra version as a socially desirable trait. The same
(26:29):
study found that high extra version scores were significantly correlated
to fewer serious episodes of depression, as opposed to neuroticism,
which not so surprisingly was found to be significantly correlated
with a number of severe threatening events. UM. But that
might have to do two with extra version building social networks,
(26:49):
adding that sort of protective layer the tending and befriending theory.
But um, even though tending and befriending is more associated
with women, we shoulding out that studies on gender differences
and extroversion and introversion find no major significant differences. UM.
Susan Kaine says that the gender split is pretty much
(27:12):
fifty fifty um. And people also tend to become a
little more introverted as the agency settled down. Um. And
some studies will find that women tend to be a
little more extroverted than men. Some find that men tend
to be a little more extrovert than women. There is
no clear cut difference, right, which goes to show just
how even it is pretty much um And as far
(27:33):
as married couples go, a Fordham University study looked at
eighty nine married couples and found that females are more
expressive of their positive emotions and more extroverted than male
So here's one that says we are more extroverted. Um.
But the relationship between emotional expressivity and marital satisfaction was
influenced by the type of emotion being expressed, So essentially,
(27:58):
if you're expressing angry emotion, you probably aren't as happy
with your marriage if you're saying this is the best
thing ever exactly. But they also found that spouses who
were matched on the extra version scale really didn't experience
greater satisfaction than those who were mismatched on extra version,
So it's kind of just how you relate to each other.
(28:18):
So while extra version might not have much of an
effect on your marriage, if you are a heterosexual woman,
it sure could influence how you look at men. A
two thousand nine study in the Journal of Personality and
Individual Differences found that extra version is positively associated with
certain things that women look for in a man, such
(28:39):
as attractiveness. And they looked at the relationship between each
of the big big five personality factors that Kristen mentioned
and found that women's preference for facial masculinity was tied
only to extra version, not to the other traits. And
so they talk about how masculine facial characteristics are positively
correlated with, you know, indicase of men's health. So there's
(29:03):
all this weird stuff about extroversion and women's preferences. So
that would seem like it would uh confirm a little
bit the findings from the twenty eleven University of California
at Santa Barbara study about that link between extra version
and appearance of strength and handsomeness and what a handsome
(29:25):
child of high scores on the handsome scale. But we
must underscore that the you know, again, it's it's twenty
to of that of the link between the physical characteristics
and the personality characteristics. So it's not to say, you know,
only attractive people can possibly be extroverted. That's not or
(29:48):
only extroverted women will appreciate a masculine looking man, right,
I mean I just yeah, exactly. Um. But there are
a couple of things to close this out on a
happy note. There are a couple of things that you
introverts should remember that you are worth something people. I am,
you are you are Kristen, and you should stop trying
to go against your nature. Yeah, Psychology today, which has
(30:12):
a huge amount of resources for introverts, says, don't isolate
yourself too much. Dimpling rights that when she feels herself
getting weird, she seeks out some face time with a friend.
Basically when she's like, I don't even know if I
can interact with other people anymore, then she knows it's
time to get out of the house. That happens to
me sometimes I'm not gonna lie. I'm working from home
(30:33):
a lot. There are those moments. In addition, you know,
there are a lot of things out there that say
that introverts might hate the phone, but you should probably
call people back at some point or email them at
some point. And don't forget that plunging right into deep
conversations with people at a party can be slightly off putting.
Maybe don't start talking about wars and politics right off
(30:55):
the bat. Um and Dimpling points out that friendships do
build incrementally and they start with small talk. Small talk
greases the wheels of society, so we can't dismiss extroverts
and their chit chat so easily. And then, um, this
is the one that really rings true for me. Is
not confusing fear and introversion because is introversion undervalued in
(31:17):
our society? Yes, I think that we could absolutely conclude
that it is because there is a lot of value
to having a little more time by yourself seeking the
lower stimulation, having the deeper one on one conversations, rather
than meeting a bunch of new acquaintances. Not to say
that I don't like meeting new people, which I do, um,
(31:39):
but it's it's so culturally associated with shyness as a
negative trait that I think, Um, it's a great thing
that Susan Caine um, and also Sandra Dublin who's got
the book coming out too on introversion are bringing more
awareness to the other side of that personality coin exactly,
(32:02):
be who you are, Be who you are, let your
kids be who they are, and we should we should
post a link to that introversion extra version quiz so
that listeners can also see how introverted or extroverted they are.
Are you a Carolina or Kristen? Find out? So that's
all we've got to tell you. You tell us about
your introversion extra version stories. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot
(32:25):
com is where you can send them. You can also
post them on Facebook and if they're real short, you
can tweet them to us at mom Stuff Podcast. And
we've got an email here. In response to our episode
interviewing Melissa Petro a k the Hooker Teacher, indeed this
is from Lori she has. She says that while I
(32:46):
have no experience with sex work, I did go to
college with a couple of single mothers who were paying
their way through school and supporting their families by working
as strippers. These were not women who were being forced
to do this or or who were dumb women. These
were older women who had married, had a family and
become single mothers and then decided to go back to
school to further their education. These were smart, strong women.
While most people would look down upon them for their
(33:08):
choice of jobs, I always admire these women for doing
what they had to do in order to make a
better future for themselves and their children. I know the
subject of legalizing sex work is a touchy subject with
many points to be considered, but my thought is that
it may be a way to help eliminate a lot
of crimes. And you're being forced to do something illegal,
you are less likely to go to the police and
report a climb against yourself or the fact that you
(33:29):
were being forced to do the illegal activity. How many
women would call the police and report that they are
shoplifting because their boyfriend, husband, et cetera is making them
do it. The same is true with prostitution. If it
were legal, then the people employed in this industry would
be more likely to report crimes against them without needing
to fear that they themselves would be arrested. So thank you,
Lorie and to everyone else who has written in Mom's
(33:49):
stuff at Discovery dot Com is the email addressed, and
of course you can find us on Facebook and Twitter.
At Mom's Stuff Podcasts, and you can also head over
to our webs ight during the week to see what
we're writing about. It's how Stuff works dot com. Be
sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from
(34:10):
the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore
the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The House
Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it today
on iTunes. Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand
twelve camera. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom never told you?
From House stuffwoards dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about
(00:21):
introversion and extroversion, a lot of which was kicked off
by the publication of a book by Susan Caine, who
is a former lawyer. UM. She wrote the book called Quiet,
The Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking.
And if you've heard about this book, no big surprise,
because she went on a huge media tour and the
(00:46):
book shot up the New York Times bestseller list. Sitting
spent a while. There might still be on there. She
should have checked before we came into the studio. UM,
but it seemed like Kane received so much uh praise
and almost size of relief from people saying, oh, fantastic,
(01:07):
introversion is not necessarily a bad thing. No, it's definitely
not a bad thing she was telling I think she
did an interview with Arianna Huffington's UM where she said
that when she would tell people what the topic was
that she was writing, about she got so many relieved
responses and people just saying, oh my gosh, let me
tell you about my experience. And these people were introverts,
(01:29):
which just goes to prove introverts do talk yes well.
In the interview, Arianna Huffington's um talked about how she
was an extreme introvert as a child and had this
anecdote of what I think it was her fifth birthday?
Was it the birthday? Um? At her fifth birthday party,
she apparently kicked all of the kids out because she
(01:51):
just wanted to hold up and read Arianna Huffington's you Know,
media Mogul. She said that as she grew up, she
tried to cultivate eight more extroverted tendencies because you do
reap so many benefits from it. But the point of
it is, um, introversion is not a bad thing. And
there was also a quiz from Quiet the Power of
(02:13):
Introverts in the world that can't stop talking to detect
whether or not you are an introvert or an extrovert.
I took the quiz, do you have any idea how?
I scored about half and half a little more introverted.
I am so far on the introvert scale intensely introverted. Huh, well,
(02:34):
I think that what you're saying is highlighting perfectly the
theme of everything that we read, which is that society
tends to view introverts as really shy people who just
have no social skills. And Kristen Conger is definitely not
like that, I assure you people, And so I think
that's interesting. Yeah, for sure. I took the quiz to
(02:56):
I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no no, I
take it, I take it back, take it back, and
I phone a friend. No, I guess that you are
extremely extroverted. I I don't remember the exact numbers, but yeah,
I am. There were a lot of falses because all
of the statements were introvert related, and it was you
had to answer true false, and I had way more
(03:19):
falses than I did true's. It would be interesting compare
to compare a where we were opposite on those where
I was a true and you were true for introvert
and you were false for it. Yeah. I forgot to
write some of those down. There was one I gave
the quiz to my roommate who was actually according to
this and it is an unscientific quiz. But according to
the quiz, he is way more introverted than either one
(03:40):
of us thought. But one of the ones that he
wrote false four was people described me as soft spoken
and mellow, because if you knew my roommate, he is
definitely not either of those things. Yeah, I put I
put false on that as well, because I have such
a grading vocal tone. But let's talk about introversion versus extroversion.
Why do we often get this confused? How does Susan
(04:03):
Caine offer a broader perspective on introversion and extroversion, which,
according to personality psychologists, is the single most important aspect
of our personality, whether we're introreted or extraverted or yes,
it determines things like our choice of friends and partners,
how we make conversation and resolve differences and show love.
(04:26):
It helps determine our careers. For instance, extroverts tend to
exercise more, cheat on their partners more, and make riskier
bets on the stock market, even I wouldn't even know
how to do that. Don't take an extrovert to vegas apparently,
And then introverts like meat and to function well without sleep.
(04:47):
I can crouchy can't learn from mistakes and make well
balanced team leaders. Good. Good for you. I apparently I
am a terrible person. I had no idea. Um. Yeah,
According to Kane, really an introvert has to do with
how the person responds to stimuli, and introverts really prefer
(05:07):
lower stimulation environments and are not poor. They don't have
poor social skills. They are differently social, right, Um, it
just has to do with that lower stimulation. Like you mentioned,
She often brings up this contrast of whereas an introvert
would prefer to have a glass of wine with a
friend and have a long, deep conversation, an extrovert would
probably prefer to go to a party where they could
(05:30):
meet a number of new people. Um. And she even
told this scientific American that introverts salivate even more than
extroverts do if you place a drop of lemon juice
on their tongue. It's like we're more more primed for
stimulation to get overwhelmed more quickly. Interesting. That's really weird.
(05:51):
But but it is not to imply that introverts are
inherently shy, right, Because shyness, as Kane goes on to
talk about, is the fear of social judgment wine a
quieter setting, preferring that glass of wine with a friend
does not mean that we are shy, although I definitely
have shy tendencies, and psychologists do associate shyness with introversion,
(06:14):
but they are not um one and the same, right.
I mean, I think you, an extrovert, can be shy
in certain situations too. I definitely have moments where I
am socially afraid. Um. But she talks about how our
culture seems to just value extroverts more, how everything in
our culture, from classrooms to work settings is geared towards extroverts,
(06:36):
and she says that this is part of our cultural
d n A and that Americans in particular favorite action
over contemplation. She said. Kane says that this became really
important at the turn of the twentieth century. Uh, when
there was the rise of cinema and movie stars, and
all of a sudden, it became so important to be
magnetic and charismatic, and that has carried over and now
(06:56):
if you're not magnetic and charismatic and something like a
job interview you you might not get the job. Yeah.
She She talks about the cultural history of introversion and
extra version, and how extra version really became the coveted
personality trait around the nineteen fifties, because you have the
(07:16):
rise of corporate America, you have the rise of cinema
and television. UM. There's a psychologist at the University of Minnesota,
Denise as Owns, who found that since television began, Americans
have elected more extroverted presidents than introverted ones, possibly reflecting
this UH idealization of magnetism and charm. There's that famous
(07:40):
story about the presidential debate between Richard Nixon and JFK.
Was gonna be the first UM televised presidential debate and
JFK one hands down because Nixon just he didn't he
didn't look as well on TV. He I think he
refused to get makeup. Yeah, and he was. He was sweaty,
both from the temperature and from nerves. I guess Kennedy
(08:01):
got to sit in a in an air conditioned area beforehand.
So TV man ruins everything, right. And if you think
about presidential campaigns now, ones that are going on now,
so much of it is based on on on personality,
whereas if you go back to the time of Abraham Lincoln.
He was a man of strong character. It was the
(08:22):
culture of character, sort of the strong but silent type, right.
And there's a lot to do with extroverts and introverts
and relationships, whether they're in a relationship with each other
or someone of the same personality type. And like Kristen
mentioned earlier, an introvert is more likely to pursue deep
and meaningful conversations, whereas an extrovert kind of tends to
(08:43):
stay on the surface and bounce around to two different
topics with different people. And Sophia Dimmling has done a
lot of blogging about introversion for Psychology Today, and she
said that if you're in a relationship with someone of
a different personality type than you, you should try to
respect your partner's differences and recognize that they can enhance
your relationship. For instance, an extrovert can bring new people
(09:05):
into your life, whereas an introvert can create more peaceful
spaces in the home and the relationship. Yeah, like Susan
Kane Um, Sophia Denmling is always also an introvert working
on a book about introverts um. I think her book
is coming out in two thousand and twelve later on
this year. And it's interesting that that both of these
(09:25):
books are really sort of reclaiming the value of introversion
in today's culture, saying, you know what, it's not even
even though everything is is so dominated by social media
and sharing and putting yourself out there. Um, we don't
need to lose sight of these very powerful traits that
go along with introversion. And for parents today, I'm sure
(09:48):
that can be a challenging thing to reconcile as you're
raising kids that might tend toward the shire side because
schools are set up in more extroverted fostering atmospheres um
in we um, you know, and and children will internalize.
I mean, I remember being called shy as a child,
and kids tend to internalize that association of of shyness
(10:10):
and introversion as being a negative thing. And I remember being,
you know, I was. We did our Only Child podcast
and talked about how only children are more likely to
associate with adults and be like little adults, and I was.
I just remember being a kid and getting positive feedback
over and over again because of how open I was
with grown ups, and they were like, oh my gosh,
you know, she's so talkative and everything. And so there
(10:32):
is that um that encouragement for one way or another.
And you know, if you have introverted parents, they might
encourage the more bookish behavior. And talking about parents and kids,
uh this There was a really interesting article on parents
dot com. Several psychologists are pointing out that parents are
putting a lot of value on making their children sociable,
(10:55):
setting up lots of play dates, getting really concerned if
their kids don't have a lot of friends at school,
instead of just sort of letting them be as they are,
letting them just have a close, tight knit group of
friends instead of having a ton of friends. And William Doherty,
a professor of family social science at the University of Minnesota,
so that if we coach kids not to be who
(11:15):
they are, we communicate a lack of acceptance. So people
who tell you, Kristen, stop being so shy, come out
of your shell. That's like, okay, well, stop being who
you're naturally inclined to be. Well, it seems like that
um that anxiety over socializing kids enough, making sure that
they have enough play dates and get along well enough
is more of the along the trend of helicopter parenting
(11:38):
over parenting that has fallen somewhat out of favor. Um,
because it is so hyperactive in a way, there's there's
so much value of free time, of letting kids maybe
foster more introverted traits. Not to say that socializing kids
is very important, says the former homeschooler, but um over
(12:01):
scheduling a kid and being an over emphasizing um, their
social activities might not be so positive either. And the
thing that parents need to remember is that shy kids
tend to grow out of their shyness. Now, while it
might take some kids longer than others, there was a
study from a Harvard psychologist that followed two d and
(12:23):
fifty children from infancy and showed that two thirds of
the kids who were shy as three year olds had
come out of their shells by age eleven. Even if
they weren't necessarily social butterflies, they still have their social moments,
but that extreme shyness does gradually wear away a lot
of the time. Yeah, um, it is good to point out,
(12:46):
I think the effect that a kid's personality can have
on their education. Though, because as Linda Kreeger Silverman points out,
she's the director of the Gifted Development Center in Denver.
Introverted children are less likely to be minuted to a
prestigious private school because they tend to clam up in
an interview. They're not gregarious, they're not showing off, you know,
(13:06):
their little child block building skills. And I mean, I
remember it because I went to I grew up going
to a private school, and I remember my interview and
it was terrifying. I remember I couldn't add twenty two
and seven. I was like, how can anyone do this?
This is impossible? But I also remember being kind of giggle. Ay,
So I don't know how old were you, six or seven.
(13:30):
It's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure.
Interview with child well. Susan Kane Um, the author of Quiet,
would also point out that the school setting and the
big classroom environment is really forcing a lot of kids
to be extroverted instead of paying more attention to more
introverted one on one um learning. Um. She says that
(13:52):
the emphasis on group activities discounts a lot of kids
natural preferences to work alone. I mean, I think that
probably I'm schooling, to be honest, fostered a lot of
my introversion. I did work by myself. A lot of
the times it was self directed study, which you could
say might have been um a negative thing in terms
of socializing. There was an adjustment once I finally got
(14:15):
into a classroom setting. It was a learning curve for me.
But when it came time for say college, and I
had to study a lot on my own, oh man,
I could sit down and do it easy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And all of this stuff from school carries right on
into work because we have this culture of brainstorming and
group meetings and open plan cubicles where we're all sort
(14:38):
of smushed together, no doors, no chance for privacy or
solo work, and that's really not the best environment for
almost half of the population. Yeah. Jennet Gaudreau over at
Forbes points out that the amount of personal space allotted
to employees in the workplace has shrunk six since the
nineteen seventies, and we usually have about oh two square
(15:01):
feet a personal space, and that idea of the value
of brainstorming really was pioneered in the nineteen fifties by
an executive named Alex Osborne, and it's only been until
recently the organizational psychologists are starting to call into question
whether or not getting into a room with a bunch
(15:21):
of people and some magic markers is all that effective. Yeah,
I hate it. Personally, I'm just gonna throw the The
extrovert does not like brainstorming. I like, I don't mind
big meetings like if if there's a staff meeting or whatever.
I don't mind big meetings with a lot of people
where I can throw my ideas that I'm I'm totally
fine doing that. But there's something about a meeting where
(15:44):
you're forced to go in and like trade ideas and
offer something up. Because that I feel sometimes like I'm
kind of more half and half introvert extrovert, and part
of my introverted tendency um and this this I read
about from Kane is that sometimes I get my best
years after I leave the meeting because I'm so focused
on like, okay, think of something. What do they saying, Well,
they still my idea? Well what can I offer up?
(16:07):
And so then there's a little bit of anxiety and
by the time I get back to my desk of like, well,
I guess I have to email that idea. Well. That's
why psychologist would point out that having free time and
understanding how to be by yourself is so important because
it's a lot of times in those open spaces that
you allow yourself to flow. And I'm saying flow in
(16:28):
quotes because that is the you know, this um psychological
theory of how create. You can foster creativity not through
trying to force something out in a room with a
magic marker, having to write down as many ideas as possible,
but in more relaxed and open spaces. Right and Jenna
Gudreau who you who you mentioned? In her interview with Kane,
(16:49):
She points out that charismatic leaders, these extroverts that we
come to rely on, may earn bigger paychecks, but they
don't necessarily have better corporate performance because a lot of
times an extroverted boss will, whether they mean to or not,
end up, as she says, put her stamp on things
because of her stamp on things, whereas an introverted leader
(17:10):
might just say, hey, run with your ideas, develop them
and then you know, and then we'll talk about it.
She also points out that brainstorming can resolve in lower
quality ideas because some of the more vocally assertive extroverts
are the only ones getting their voices heard. Well, that's
The tricky thing about extroversion and introversion in the office
places that for UM introverts like me, we have a
(17:34):
statistically lower chance of being groomed for a leadership because
the modern workplace does value extroversions so much. And UM
Adam grant Over at University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School UM
conducted studies finding that introverted leaders actually have better UM
leadership capabilities when working with proactive employees because kind of
(17:59):
like you were talking king about UM, which in a
Gudreaus reporting over at Forbes, introverted leaders tend to UM,
I guess cultivate employee ideas more so than extroverted leaders
might turn a blind a blind eye to them because
they're they want to show off their own capabilities a
(18:20):
little bit more. Yeah, well, there is a lot of
advice about how to work together because if if you're
a loud, talkative, confident extrovert, but you're quiet, confident introvert
coworker isn't responding to you in the in the way
that you want, or vice versa UM, it can cause
some conflict. And Business Week says that if you're an
introvert managing extroverts, you need to recognize that those people
(18:44):
thrive on working with others and they are able to
make sense of the world by talking about at first
and thinking about it as they go, which is so
true for me. I I'm a bit of a talker,
so maybe I'm in the in the right field. But
if I'm having a problem, like I absolutely need to
talk it through, and you know, writing it down does
help and working it through that way. But if I'm
(19:05):
having a problem personal or work related, I run my mouth.
But they also say that, you know, they warn introverted
managers that you're extrovert. Employees tend not to delve very
deep when discussing issues, but they are comfortable at multitasking
and moving at a quick pace, so maybe they can
get things done at the same time. So it sounds
like it's pretty basic advice to recognize that if you're
(19:28):
an extrovert, that introverts exist and have different skill sets
and you do, and vice versa for introverts recognizing and
managing extroverts and not allowing themselves to be just drowned
out by extroverts excessive talking. Looking at you, Oh no, no,
it's not just excessive talking. I say that I say
(19:49):
that in gest um. But let's move out of the
workplace into the history books to find out where this
idea of introver version and extra version came into being
and why it even exists with what the science behind
these two um personality traits is. Yeah, it all comes
(20:11):
from Carl Young. Basically, he he coined the term introvert
in the ninet twenties to describe a person who becomes
emotionally and physically worn out from being around people for
a long time. And researcher indicates that this is actually
tied in with how their nervous systems are wired, and
Kristen kind of touched on that when she mentioned her
weird lemon drop thing on the tongue. Yes as a
(20:32):
quick refresher, Susan Kine told Scientific American the introverts will
salivate more than extroverts if you put a drop of
lemon juice on their tongues and um. While it is
not exactly the same neuropathways, neuroscience researcher and psychoanalyst Marty
Olson Laney found that the dopamine produced during a party
(20:54):
will give extroverted kids a boost. In other words, they
can kind of stand more of it while it overload
an introverted child circus and circuit and make them want
to have a time out, leave, go read their books
like Arianna Huffington's UM. So, so it seems like there's
it's that it goes back to that idea of stimulation.
(21:15):
What is Introverted people tend to have the lower threshold
of stimulation, whether it's for lemon juice or dopamine production,
perhaps than extroverted kids. Right, And I guess it's it's
I can understand it. I can understand the introverted person's
um need to sort of get away from that, But
it takes a whole lot more for me to feel
(21:37):
like that, like I need to be out doing something
all weekend long before I feel like, oh my god,
I need to go sit in my room and close
the door. Whereas it sounds like an introverted person might
good alloud party and spend a couple of hours there
and be like, I don't know about that. I actually
have a friend who's a high school teacher and at
the end of the day he needs to just go
(21:57):
home and sit because he has been in front of
a bunch of teenagers all day long, talking NonStop, and
that's not his natural sort of presentation of himself to
the world. Well, perhaps that relates to the fact that
going going on this topic of brain science, introverts tend
to show more activity in regions that regulate rest and digestion,
(22:21):
whereas outgoing children will show more brain activity in the
fight or flight region. So again it seems to be this, Uh,
it does go back to that issue of stimulation in
what areas of the body are um more active than others.
And I think we should probably talk about two nature
(22:42):
versus nurture, because you mentioned your homeschooling experience and how
that might have fostered more of an introverted outlook. But
there's this two thousand eleven study from University of California
at Santa Barbara which tied extra version to looking strong
and attractive. Which is not to say that all good
looking people are naturally extroverted, but they have the theory
(23:03):
about how good looking, strong babies and children are rewarded
with a lot of good intention, a lot of cuci
que belly scratchen um, which causes them to sort of
mirror that and and respond in a in a positive way. Also, right,
The psychologist based this theory on UM a term from
personality psychology called facultative calibration, which is basically a process
(23:27):
by which genetic traits and in this case, strength and
attractiveness influence your personality. Because personality psychologists will UM usually
say that a lot of our personality traits are heritable.
We do get certain traits from our parents and our grandparents,
but it's difficult to pinpoint which genes control for which
(23:51):
personality trait UM. So in this study of from University
of California, Santa Barbara, they calculated that twenty four percent
of extroversion variants could be explained by the variables of
physical strength and physical attractiveness because of that positive feedback
loop from essentially people saying, well, my goodness, you are
(24:14):
a handsome, strong looking child. High five. UM. One of
the researchers did point out to Dimbling, who we talked
about earlier, that UM, it is possible for it to
go the other way too, that someone who is naturally
wired to be extroverted, if they are rewarded and encouraged
to be to exhibit more introverted behavior, they might veer
(24:37):
more toward that way. Even though something in their brain
is like go to a party. Go to a party.
They might sit home and read a book because that's
what their parents do, that's what they're expected to do.
But that's a relief though, especially as someone who does
apparently sit so far on the introversion spectrum, it is
a relief to know that there is such an interplay
(24:58):
of nature versus nurture, that are our personality is not
completely fixed in that way. Sure exactly. Um Dimpling did
take issue with with some of the methods in this
University California study because they keep referring to it as
an extra version continuum, and she just sort of took
issue with the idea that introversion is the negative end
(25:21):
of the extra version spectrum. But that would kind of
exist too. If you think about the big five personality
traits that come up in psychology a lot, which are
extra version, openness, conscientiousness, agreeableness, and neuroticism. And neuroticism aside,
it seems like those those other four are all, you know,
positively associated in our brain. It's they're they're the socially
(25:45):
desirable traits. But that might have to do with that
cultural shift from a culture of character to a culture
of personality, so speaking of traits that run in families
and nature versus nurture. The British Journal of Psychiatry in
two thousand two published a study that found no difference
really between the extra version scores for men and women,
(26:07):
but it was looking at certain traits and siblings, and
found that scores on extra version and neuroticism, speaking of
neuroticism are substantially genetically influenced, so there is some of
that inheritability and also adding some credence of the idea
of extra version as a socially desirable trait. The same
(26:29):
study found that high extra version scores were significantly correlated
to fewer serious episodes of depression, as opposed to neuroticism,
which not so surprisingly was found to be significantly correlated
with a number of severe threatening events. UM. But that
might have to do two with extra version building social networks,
(26:49):
adding that sort of protective layer the tending and befriending theory.
But um, even though tending and befriending is more associated
with women, we shoulding out that studies on gender differences
and extroversion and introversion find no major significant differences. UM.
Susan Kaine says that the gender split is pretty much
(27:12):
fifty fifty um. And people also tend to become a
little more introverted as the agency settled down. Um. And
some studies will find that women tend to be a
little more extroverted than men. Some find that men tend
to be a little more extrovert than women. There is
no clear cut difference, right, which goes to show just
how even it is pretty much um And as far
(27:33):
as married couples go, a Fordham University study looked at
eighty nine married couples and found that females are more
expressive of their positive emotions and more extroverted than male
So here's one that says we are more extroverted. Um.
But the relationship between emotional expressivity and marital satisfaction was
influenced by the type of emotion being expressed, So essentially,
(27:58):
if you're expressing angry emotion, you probably aren't as happy
with your marriage if you're saying this is the best
thing ever exactly. But they also found that spouses who
were matched on the extra version scale really didn't experience
greater satisfaction than those who were mismatched on extra version,
So it's kind of just how you relate to each other.
(28:18):
So while extra version might not have much of an
effect on your marriage, if you are a heterosexual woman,
it sure could influence how you look at men. A
two thousand nine study in the Journal of Personality and
Individual Differences found that extra version is positively associated with
certain things that women look for in a man, such
(28:39):
as attractiveness. And they looked at the relationship between each
of the big big five personality factors that Kristen mentioned
and found that women's preference for facial masculinity was tied
only to extra version, not to the other traits. And
so they talk about how masculine facial characteristics are positively
correlated with, you know, indicase of men's health. So there's
(29:03):
all this weird stuff about extroversion and women's preferences. So
that would seem like it would uh confirm a little
bit the findings from the twenty eleven University of California
at Santa Barbara study about that link between extra version
and appearance of strength and handsomeness and what a handsome
(29:25):
child of high scores on the handsome scale. But we
must underscore that the you know, again, it's it's twenty
to of that of the link between the physical characteristics
and the personality characteristics. So it's not to say, you know,
only attractive people can possibly be extroverted. That's not or
(29:48):
only extroverted women will appreciate a masculine looking man, right,
I mean I just yeah, exactly. Um. But there are
a couple of things to close this out on a
happy note. There are a couple of things that you
introverts should remember that you are worth something people. I am,
you are you are Kristen, and you should stop trying
to go against your nature. Yeah, Psychology today, which has
(30:12):
a huge amount of resources for introverts, says, don't isolate
yourself too much. Dimpling rights that when she feels herself
getting weird, she seeks out some face time with a friend.
Basically when she's like, I don't even know if I
can interact with other people anymore, then she knows it's
time to get out of the house. That happens to
me sometimes I'm not gonna lie. I'm working from home
(30:33):
a lot. There are those moments. In addition, you know,
there are a lot of things out there that say
that introverts might hate the phone, but you should probably
call people back at some point or email them at
some point. And don't forget that plunging right into deep
conversations with people at a party can be slightly off putting.
Maybe don't start talking about wars and politics right off
(30:55):
the bat. Um and Dimpling points out that friendships do
build incrementally and they start with small talk. Small talk
greases the wheels of society, so we can't dismiss extroverts
and their chit chat so easily. And then, um, this
is the one that really rings true for me. Is
not confusing fear and introversion because is introversion undervalued in
(31:17):
our society? Yes, I think that we could absolutely conclude
that it is because there is a lot of value
to having a little more time by yourself seeking the
lower stimulation, having the deeper one on one conversations, rather
than meeting a bunch of new acquaintances. Not to say
that I don't like meeting new people, which I do, um,
(31:39):
but it's it's so culturally associated with shyness as a
negative trait that I think, Um, it's a great thing
that Susan Caine um, and also Sandra Dublin who's got
the book coming out too on introversion are bringing more
awareness to the other side of that personality coin exactly,
(32:02):
be who you are, Be who you are, let your
kids be who they are, and we should we should
post a link to that introversion extra version quiz so
that listeners can also see how introverted or extroverted they are.
Are you a Carolina or Kristen? Find out? So that's
all we've got to tell you. You tell us about
your introversion extra version stories. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot
(32:25):
com is where you can send them. You can also
post them on Facebook and if they're real short, you
can tweet them to us at mom Stuff Podcast. And
we've got an email here. In response to our episode
interviewing Melissa Petro a k the Hooker Teacher, indeed this
is from Lori she has. She says that while I
(32:46):
have no experience with sex work, I did go to
college with a couple of single mothers who were paying
their way through school and supporting their families by working
as strippers. These were not women who were being forced
to do this or or who were dumb women. These
were older women who had married, had a family and
become single mothers and then decided to go back to
school to further their education. These were smart, strong women.
While most people would look down upon them for their
(33:08):
choice of jobs, I always admire these women for doing
what they had to do in order to make a
better future for themselves and their children. I know the
subject of legalizing sex work is a touchy subject with
many points to be considered, but my thought is that
it may be a way to help eliminate a lot
of crimes. And you're being forced to do something illegal,
you are less likely to go to the police and
report a climb against yourself or the fact that you
(33:29):
were being forced to do the illegal activity. How many
women would call the police and report that they are
shoplifting because their boyfriend, husband, et cetera is making them
do it. The same is true with prostitution. If it
were legal, then the people employed in this industry would
be more likely to report crimes against them without needing
to fear that they themselves would be arrested. So thank you,
Lorie and to everyone else who has written in Mom's
(33:49):
stuff at Discovery dot Com is the email addressed, and
of course you can find us on Facebook and Twitter.
At Mom's Stuff Podcasts, and you can also head over
to our webs ight during the week to see what
we're writing about. It's how Stuff works dot com. Be
sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from
(34:10):
the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore
the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The House
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