October 3, 2012 • 28 mins
Tweens spend $40 million per month on beauty products. And when retailers peddle makeup to tweens, parental freak-outs are bound to occur. So why do parents fret over their daughters wearing makeup? One word: sex. Tune in to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff
Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Caroline and I'm Kristen, and today we're gonna talk about
little girls wearing makeup and don't get don't get angry yet.
I wanted to talk about it because I remember wearing
(00:25):
bright pink peel off nail polish as a child and
thinking it was so super fantastic. And I was like,
wouldn't it be fun if we engaged our listeners in
a in a little trip down memory lane to talk about,
you know, makeup we wore in the eighties, but that's
not what the Internet thinks. No, little did we know
that we were digging into a parent bologosphere firestorm over
(00:50):
the appropriate age for girls to wear makeup. Uh. And
there is a lot of contention out there about this.
I mean, like you like when I was when I
was a kid, I had I have two older sisters,
um and a mom that also like, doesn't leave the
house without lipstick on. I love you Mom. So there
(01:13):
was you know, there was lots of makeup in the house.
I also had the sticker, uh, nail press on, nail decor,
nail art, I guess which would be in vogue today. Uh,
and yeah, I really didn't. I didn't think much of it. Yeah.
I would have times when I would go into the
(01:33):
makeup closet there was literally like a makeup cabinet, and
I would come out looking like a clown. Yeah. Well,
I mean that's what we were children and we were playing.
I was just telling Kristen that when I was growing up,
my godmother gave me like this humongous tray like radical
colors of of eyeshadow, just like ginormous. It was as
big as like Rhode Island. I had this human, this
(01:56):
amazing supply of eyeshadow at my disposal, and I would
just play with it. I wasn't attracted to the dark colors,
but I really liked the blues and the purples. I
was fantastic. I remember, I remember the blues. Now, I
think where the debate starts is when the child leaves
the home. It seems like it's no big deal for
the most part, if a kid wants to, you know,
(02:19):
put some cookie eyes shadow on and run around. But
if the child wants to leave the home like that, well,
get ready to be scrutinized. Yeah, and God forbid you
blog about it. Earlier this spring, Lindsay Cross, who's a mom,
wrote a blog post on mommyish dot com about her
(02:41):
four year old daughter's interest in makeup, and she described
it as a bonding routine, you know, because her daughter
watches her put makeup on before she leaves the house
and naturally is curious about it and wants to participate,
also wants to explore. Now, this blog post attracted so
much attention and really so much rage that Good Morning
(03:01):
America did an interview with her to to talk about
this and the way that she she writes the post
isn't like, yeah, I buy my four year old daughter makeup,
and you know what, she's a lot prettier with some
blush on. That's all I'm saying. No, she actually says.
Here's here's an excerpt from it. She says, for my
(03:22):
little girl, makeup feels like something we do to show
that an event is important to us. It's an extra
step that lets us spend a little frivolous time with
brushes and powders. Sometimes I don't even put any actual
makeup on. I just run the brushes over a skin.
It doesn't change the fund for her. But then when
the daughter is being interviewed on Good Morning America, she
(03:43):
says that she likes putting on makeup quote because it
makes me pretty. The debate continues, Yeah, there is a
major backlash. Everybody's saying that the daughter is too young,
that she's falling prey to society's notions of beauty and uh.
An adolescent psychiatrist, even I'm dan Henry Paul said that
four is definitely too young. Quote. The use of makeup
(04:05):
in some ways can be addictive, and what these children
would be addicted to is the pursuit of perfection, the superficial,
the skin deep, I'm only as good as I look attitude. Well,
and then there's the whole big fear as well that
has been echoed by UM. Some psychologists who are also
have also been interviewed on this topic who're talking about, uh,
(04:25):
the sexualization of girls. Essentially, you you let a girl
at too young of an age put on some lipstick
and leave the house and quote. According to Dr Robert Buttersworth,
a clinical psychologist in Los Angeles who was interviewed for
parent Dish, he says, uh, if in parentheses, she's putting
(04:46):
on makeup, because everyone else is doing it or so
guys will notice him. Those are dangerous signals. However, if
the girl has scratches, scars, or acne, it might be okay.
So some mixed some mixed signals. But but let's also
talk about girls in makeup first from a marketing standpoint,
(05:06):
because I think one of the big reasons that this
is becoming such an intense debate is because the makeup
and cosmetics and beauty products marketed to tweens that would
be nine to twelve year olds and pre tweens god,
you mean children, Yes, children in market I'm using marketing speak,
(05:31):
pre tweens, six to eight year olds. The beauty products
are being They're so much more beauty products being marketed
to them, which I think is it's sort of undergirding
all of this. Yeah, because Walmart has a line called
Geo Girl that a lot of people are kind of
up in arms about. And Disney, you know, Disney has
(05:51):
various lines. Uh. Johanna Moony from Disney Consumer Products says
that a ten year old doesn't need anything to be beautiful, right,
so that's good. She says, they want to be playful
and aspirational. Okay, then she says, they want a little fantasy,
and we want her to feel that she is feeling good.
So okay, well that's okay, Well you are okay. You
(06:15):
want the little girl to feel good by putting a makeup.
You know, when I was a pretween, Caroline, I just
wanted to live my best life. I always feel good.
He wanted to put on your I cream at night,
put your hair in curlers, feel really good about yourself.
I'm pretty sure I was still in the sandbox. I
would look at myself in the mirror and say, could
I just indulge in some fantasy? Please? Please, mother, let
(06:40):
me engage in fantasy. Yeah, you mentioned Walmart selling Geo Girl.
Target another big box retailer. You can go there get Hello.
Kitty Brand cosmetics also cover Girl that doesn't mark it
directly to the younger's nevertheless, has the ads featuring Taylor Swift,
which has also been interpreted as a marketing move to
(07:01):
those tweens and pre tweens. I'm not gonna stop. One
thing that is sort of ridiculous about the Walmart Geo
Girl line is that the names of the makeup all
reference text speak, which by itself is infuriating. I think
tech speak is ridiculous, and I'm like, I can't I
can't read your text message. What are you sending to me?
(07:22):
So they have names like the T two G cleanser,
which means time to go, the T I S C body, Miss,
this is so cool? Uh, and the Q T Pie
mineral blush, which I don't have to hopefully explain what
that is. Um, but it's all all these products from
Walmart and the Geo Girl line are all natural but
include anti aging ingredients. Riddle me that. Christine Ponger also,
(07:47):
in my pre tween years, staring into the mirror, I
had a deathly fear of crow. Sweet Yeah. Walmart representative
actually told the Wall Street Journal that this line was
a response from consumers asking, quote, I really need to
help and educate my child on how to take care
of our skin. Um, and the whole question of whether
(08:08):
or not girls are buying and wearing makeup at her
younger age, The answer really is yes. Uh. Leslie Gibbs,
who was a marketing director at a Spire Brands Ink,
which is the marketer of Bonnabelle and Lips Smacker makeup lines,
I know about you, Caroline lips smackers. I knew a
(08:28):
girl who was addicted to Dr Pepper flavored lip smackers.
Truth she got a lip loss rehab. No, I don't
know how she weaned herself off of it. But when
we had a slumber party one night, she had to
sleep on the outside of the bed so to be
within arms reach of her Dr Pepper lip smackers. Sounds
like anxiety issues, but whatever, I don't know. But anyway,
(08:52):
Leslie Gibbs says, girls start cosmetics usage really as young
as six. I would be a pretween. Then at a
certain age and that's becoming younger and younger, she begins
to want to enter real cosmetics as an enhancement to
which all of these companies are saying, yes, wonderful. Yeah,
(09:13):
instead of just rating your mom's makeup cabinet, you just you.
You now have your own line that you can spend
money on. And the NPD Group in April did confirm
their their marketing research group. They did confirm the regular
use of certain cosmetics is rising sharply among tween girls.
They didn't get into the pre tween They said that
(09:34):
from two thousand seven to two thousand nine, the percentage
of girls eight to twelve who regularly use mascara and
eyeliner nearly doubled from ten to eighteen percent from mascara
and nine to fent for eyeliner. Yeah, and also from
the NPD group. Um, the average age UH the girls
start using beauty products has gone down and this was
(09:55):
this is a pretty big jump. This is from Newsweek
Girport by Jessica Bennett. According to MPD in two thousand five,
the average age for you starting to use beauty products
was seventeen, which seems awfully high, and then reporting that
in two thousand nine the average age is thirteen. Uh.
(10:16):
And also another marketing firm experience this is also from
two thousand nine, found that forty three percent of pre
tweens the Surrey cruises out there already we're using ellipsick
or gloss regularly, and thirty eight percent we're using hairstyling products.
In twelve percent we're using other cosmetics. These these kids
(10:39):
sound far more sophisticated than I was when I was
carrying around my my fake purse when I was feeling
fancy as a young one, I think it was just
full of rocks and broken pencils. Yeah, I had a
lot of monster trucks and match car, matchbox whatever, the
cars that are small. Um Eva Chin, who's ever at
(11:02):
teen Vogue, says that, you know, maybe this is because
it's exciting for tween girls. They haven't been allowed to
wear makeup. It's been taboo. We may we make it taboo,
so they're very excited to get to do something that
they see as only being sort of in the realm
of the older women. But women of all other age groups,
including teens, report using less makeup. What is that about, Well,
(11:27):
it might have something to do with the economy. There
has been a trend among cosmetics sales. Even though we
hear about things like the Lipstick Index, which says that
when the economy is down, the sales of things like
lipsticks will go up because it's a small luxury that
we can treat ourselves to. But overall, during the recession,
(11:48):
cosmetics sales have been down except for yeah, this tween group,
and now as of two thousand nine, tweens are spending
forty million dollars per month on beauty products. So of
course it makes sense that we have lines like Geo
Girl that are launching and cover Girl possibly using models
(12:09):
that are more attractive to younger audiences because hey, it's
a new cash cow, start them younger. And this was
another thing that Jessica Bennett points out in her Newsweek
article was that this is a really good thing for
cosmetics companies that the girls are getting started, even with
just a simple lip gloss earlier, because the habits and
brand loyalties that start then tend to follow women through
(12:33):
their mid sixties. Like I know with my mom, there
is one color and one brand of lipstick that she
has bought ever since I have paid attention, you know.
And it's so for years, lots of years she has
bought this. Okay, So, continuing on with the whole trend discussion,
this wasn't an AP story that said, overall, girls thirteen
(12:57):
and seventeen, so are they still tweens? Are they teens
at that point? Yes? They once you once you pass
twelve into thirteen, you're actually a teenager. Yeah all right, okay, Well,
so overall the story found that girls thirteen is seventeen
still use more makeup than their younger sisters, the tweens
and the pre tweens. I hate myself, but the percentage
(13:19):
of high schoolers using makeup now is less than it
was a few years ago, while the percentage of elementary
and middle school girls is higher. And they write in
the story that by age eighteen, these girls are looking
to keep their skin healthy and enhance their appearance with
tried and true cosmetics. Like Kristen mentioned the brand loyalty thing,
their whole experimental phase is largely over. But then that's
(13:39):
the whole crux of this question, over at what age
is it okay for girls to start wearing makeup? Because
a like, even by asking the question, we're saying, yeah,
there comes a point when probably you're going to want
to slap some stuff on your face to enhance your appearance.
And then when we're talking about what agent is, it's um,
(14:02):
you know, like wondering whether or not there even needs
to be this experimental phase, like whether or not we're
just giving money to corporations essentially to buying into this
beauty myth of having to look a certain way and
now that's starting so young. Um, And yeah, like what
is to say about the female body image that it
(14:23):
might be okay for for kids to start wearing Well,
that whole argument is exactly why so many people are
so angry about this topic, like why it's become just
kind of a question of like, let in a little
girl play with the eyeshadow in the bathroom, and now
it's become like you're affecting her body image UM. Stacy Malkin,
who's the author of Not Just a Pretty Face, The
(14:45):
Ugly Side of the Beauty Industry, says the parents are
fighting a losing battle with the beauty industry and blames
you know, this relentless marketing pressure on young girls to
look older, and the companies that are coming up with
these makeup lines for young girls and these marketing campaigns
are saying, not creating demand, we're answering demand. So there's
that issue of like okay, chicken or egg. You know,
(15:06):
did they really want this so we created it or
did they kind of just want to play with it
innocently and we exploited a hole in the market. Yeah.
I think that you definitely cannot discount the power of
UM advertising. I mean I remember flipping through ads or
magazines and ads and seeing the images of girls obviously
(15:28):
like with makeup on UM. But I think that too,
we can't shirk off the responsibility that we have as
adults for the fact that a lot of times, I
think this is also a product of younger girls emulating
the activity they see from older women. I mean, if
I didn't have three women on a daily basis modeling
(15:52):
that kind of like makeup normative makeup behavior in front
of me, I don't know if it would have been
as big of a deal for me to start wearing makeup.
Um at how old was I I don't know, maybe
like fourteen regularly wearing it, and I had a full
like makeup regiment that I did in high school. It
took a while. Yeah, I had to get up really
(16:13):
early before school, but mine was mainly my hair. Yeah,
well it was the hair and the makeup. It was
the whole shebang. But it was also you know, I
mean I had seen for years, like my my sisters
would do the same thing. My mom takes still I
love your mom takes forever because it's the whole makeup thing.
And then also, um, you know we're shaking our angry
(16:33):
fist said, oh this this is the beauty industry. But
then again, think about this. There was a two thousand
twelve Harris Pole that was conducted on behalf of the
Renfrew Center Foundation which is dedicated to eliminating eating disorders
and looking into your research on body image and the
survey found that nearly half of all US women have
(16:53):
negative feelings being feeling unattractive, naked, or self conscious about
not where ing makeup and about of us this is
the adult population now began wearing makeup at thirteen years
old or earlier. So, even though the supply might be
larger in terms of more product lines specifically directed at
(17:17):
these younger girls, is it all that new that we
are that we're experimenting. Yeah, maybe we just have blogs
now so people can express their anger more readily. That
could be. And if I were a parent, I can
understand the maybe the unease of all of a sudden
(17:37):
you have a young daughter and she's wearing makeup because
it is you know, it's it's kind of a a
visual marker of maturation. Yeah. Like I don't remember who
it was, but I think it was the Disney people. Yeah,
they said that, you know, our line consists mainly of
lip gloss and bombs and nail polishes and body glitter
and whatever, um, but not eyeshadow because that's too old. Yeah, Well,
(18:00):
don't put your kid night and well, and the thing
is too A lot of times, from what I've gathered,
when you hear warnings about a girl looking too old,
those are the fears about hyper sexualization, of saying, oh, well,
if you leave the house like this, then you know
you're gonna attract unwanted attention, which then opens up a
(18:24):
lot of other conversations about beauty and appearance and the
culture that we live in that puts the entire onus
of a woman's bodily safety onto her shoulders. Um, but
what about some advice from Amy Poehler. Yeah, let's hear it.
I feel like Amy Poehler is a great person to
(18:44):
go to because she is radical, and she also for
folks who don't know this about Ammy Poler, who might
only know her from uh Parks and rec and Baby
Mama and SNL. She also helps run this thing called
Smart Girls at the Party. They have a website. It's
really cool and it promotes girls being smart and awesome.
And she has a segment that she does called ask
(19:06):
Amy where she answers questions and a a fourteen year
old wrote in asking her about makeup her thoughts on
makeup because her dad did not want her wearing makeup,
but her friends were starting to wear makeup, and at fourteen,
that's a tough age because yeah, I mean, I think
that's not too uncommon for makeup to start being a thing.
(19:27):
So a couple of things she said was, I think
every fourteen year old is pretty enough that you don't
even need it, because that is the thing a lot
of times, like when we're we wear makeup as older
women to look younger. Um. But she recommended negotiating with
a dad to wear just a little bit. She was like,
parents freak out about their daughters wearing makeup because it's
(19:47):
a visible sign that they're growing up. So she wasn't
wholeheardly like don't wear makeup, you don't need it, but
she acknowledged, hew, you know what you're probably I know
that you're attractive enough, but I understand the peer pressure
factor and maybe the parents should give in a little bit.
How about some mascara that doesn't seem Yeah, I mean,
(20:07):
my mom, let me start wearing concealer because I had
I had a breakout problem when I was in experiencing puberty,
enjoying all the puberty had to offer. So she was like, yeah,
totally go ahead, where your concealer if it makes you
feel better, Because I'm not sure. I'm thinking back on
my like early teen years. I probably didn't do the
(20:29):
greatest job applying it, but she was probably like, Okay,
if it's going to get you to stop fretting, then
cover your face. That's fine, go ahead, just cover your face.
Let's cover your face with the sack. But another thing,
another thing to kind of bring this full circle, my
mother bought me the Tinkerbell Cosmetics sets. Oh those, yes,
(20:50):
And okay, so I had the peel off nail polish,
the solid perfume, and I think I had the lipstick,
but I can't remember. Lipstick is in quotes because I
kind of remember it be being more of like a
chopstick type thing, so I would need someone to write
in and tell me for sure what that was. But
I just remember like loving the look of my my
bright pink fingernails and immediately being the scratch scratch, scratch,
(21:11):
scratch scratch, yeah, because it all appeels yeah immediately, and
it was like, Okay, well that's so cool. I feel
like such a grown up. But now I'm gonna go
in the sandbox and it's all going to come off
well okay, So since uh, to wrap things up. Since
the question then that we pose is what at what
age is it okay for a girl to start wearing
makeup or boy? We haven't even talked about boys wearing makeup.
(21:33):
Let me just say, um, so maybe another conversation. But
what what do you think? Because it seemed like the
standard answer that I found that people started to be
okay with it was around twelve thirteen. Well, I think
letting any age is okay to let them play with
(21:53):
makeup and experiment with makeup at home. I'm not as
far as letting them leave house and bright red lipstick.
I mean whatever, you're the parent, you know your kid.
You know, I don't know if they're going to be
upset or have fun or whatever. Yeah, I don't know.
That's kind of a non answer. Yeah, I mean it's
that's that's the whole thing about parenting. It's so easy
(22:18):
to say, yeah, you know, like let him, you know,
play around at home, and then they could maybe go
out or not go out. I'll be cool that we
don't know. So I don't know, we don't have to parents.
Please answer this question for us, if you could, at
what age. Is it okay for uh girls start wearing makeup?
Did you kind of come to some kind of compromise
(22:40):
in terms of easing them into it? It was there
a no makeup, no cosmetics rule. Um. And also for
for folks out there, when did you start wearing makeup?
Did just sneak it? Or or what? Yeah? Alright, so
many questions. Let us know your thoughts. Mom. Stuff at
Discovery dot com is where you can send your letters,
(23:02):
and we actually have a couple of letters here in
the meantime about buying cars. But wait, hang on, Kristen,
before we do listener mail, we do have a quick
message for our listeners from our sponsor, Netflix, which helped
bring them today's episode of Stuff Mom Never told you Today.
You know, we talked about the controversy surrounding young girls
(23:22):
wearing makeup and whether it's appropriate. It can be hard
being apparent with all those decisions. Nobody warned you you
would have to buy blush for your pretween. I still
hate that word. So if you want help seeing the
comedy in these situations and get a little perspective, you
should head over to Netflix dot com to watch episodes
of shows like Arrested Development, Malcolm in the Middle, and
(23:43):
Parenthood instantly streaming that can help give a little bit
of perspective to those harried parents out there. These shows
are of course subject to availability on Netflix. So when
you go sign up at Netflix dot com as a
new member and a dedicated stuff mom never told you listener,
you can get a free thirty day trial membership. Just
(24:04):
go to Netflix dot com slash mom and sign up
and be sure to use that you are l so
they know that Kristen and I sent you over there,
and the thirty day free trial won't be around forever.
So head over to Netflix dot com slash mom a
sap to sign up today. So anyway, back to our letters.
(24:28):
I've got an email here from Emily and she wanted
to write in because she's worked at a car dealership
for a year and a half now and had some
tips to send us. She says, first off, I confess
that I do tend to see a lot of sexism,
but among my coworkers and management and with customers, however,
it's not as bad as it used to be. And
(24:50):
she recommends doing your research. She said, not only can
you research vehicle feature and pricing, you can also research
dealers and salesman. Dealer rader dot com is a great
site for this purpose. You can search dealers nationwide and
read reviews and ratings of sales and service departments and
even individual sales people can like rate my professor dot
(25:11):
com or the car Business. She also says, don't assume
we're holding money back or that the salesperson is making
a lot of money off of you. The guys in
my internet department often make only a hundred dollars from
a deal. There isn't as much holdback as you think,
and that amount can vary from car to car and
make to make. Also, don't felt any credit card applications
(25:33):
until you know what you want to buy from your dealership. Yes,
this will hamper the dealership in question from being able
to give you an exact idea of what your payments
and interest rate would be, but every time you submit
an application, it shows up on your credit report and
can make your make your credit rating go down at
least a point or two. Also, don't fill credit applications
out online to random sites that promise you financing. There
(25:55):
are always in all caps strings attached, and the majority
of links you'll find when you search for vehicle financing
are owned by the same company. Also, don't expect something
for nothing. Some people are able to buy a car
for nothing down These people tend to have amazing credit,
a trade that they owed less than what it was
worth on and they don't seem to mind paying interest
(26:17):
on taxes. You heard me right, They pay interest on
their taxes. Everyone has to pay taxes, titling and licensing
fees on a vehicle. These are acquired in every state.
And finally, she says, be nice. Not all of us
are out to scam you or pressure you into buying.
We are human beings with feelings and the occasional bad
day too. If you are no longer interested or want
(26:37):
us to stop calling you, please tell us politely. Don't
yell or curseet us, don't hang up on us, don't
ignore our calls or our voicemails. It will take just
a quick moment to let us know where your head
is at and what you are wanting us to do.
If you don't want lots of follow up phone calls,
tell our salesperson right up front. If we still call,
don't get mad. The salesperson may not have told any
of the people who make the phone calls just people
(26:58):
like and asked to be removed the follow up list. Okay,
this is an email from Laurie about car buying and
her story is is crazy it's crazy pants. Okay, so
she says, years ago, my co workers and I received
a large payout from our company. My husband was in
need of a new work truck. He found what he
wanted and needed me to go the day he was
to purchase it so I could pay for it. When
(27:20):
we got there, my husband and his salesman went to
look at the truck and I went inside to wait.
As I was killing time, I walked over to look
at a corvette on the showroom floor. A young salesman
walked up to me and said, you're a woman. You
wouldn't have the money to buy a car like this,
see as a crazy pants It's crazy town. He said
this as my husband was walking in the door. My
(27:41):
husband politely told his salesman that he thought we should
go elsewhere. As we were walking out, my husband's salesman
told the young salesman she probably has enough money to
buy three of those cars. We went to another dealership
and bought my husband a truck, where they didn't make
assumptions on what you can afford to buy based on
whether you were male or female. So thank you, Laurie.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. That's ridiculous,
(28:02):
totally ridiculous. Uh. And if you have ridiculous stories to
send our way, mom Stuff at discovery dot com is
where you can send them, or you can head over
and share them on our Facebook page, Like us while
you're at it, and follow us on Twitter at Mom's
Stuff Podcast. Oh and you can also find us on
Tumbler at stuff mom Never told You dot tumbler dot com.
(28:24):
And if you would like to learn about makeup, I've
got one place to go where you can find lots
of information. It's our website how stuff Works dot com
for more on this and thousands of other topics. Because
it how stuff works dot com
Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff
Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Caroline and I'm Kristen, and today we're gonna talk about
little girls wearing makeup and don't get don't get angry yet.
I wanted to talk about it because I remember wearing
(00:25):
bright pink peel off nail polish as a child and
thinking it was so super fantastic. And I was like,
wouldn't it be fun if we engaged our listeners in
a in a little trip down memory lane to talk about,
you know, makeup we wore in the eighties, but that's
not what the Internet thinks. No, little did we know
that we were digging into a parent bologosphere firestorm over
(00:50):
the appropriate age for girls to wear makeup. Uh. And
there is a lot of contention out there about this.
I mean, like you like when I was when I
was a kid, I had I have two older sisters,
um and a mom that also like, doesn't leave the
house without lipstick on. I love you Mom. So there
(01:13):
was you know, there was lots of makeup in the house.
I also had the sticker, uh, nail press on, nail decor,
nail art, I guess which would be in vogue today. Uh,
and yeah, I really didn't. I didn't think much of it. Yeah.
I would have times when I would go into the
(01:33):
makeup closet there was literally like a makeup cabinet, and
I would come out looking like a clown. Yeah. Well,
I mean that's what we were children and we were playing.
I was just telling Kristen that when I was growing up,
my godmother gave me like this humongous tray like radical
colors of of eyeshadow, just like ginormous. It was as
big as like Rhode Island. I had this human, this
(01:56):
amazing supply of eyeshadow at my disposal, and I would
just play with it. I wasn't attracted to the dark colors,
but I really liked the blues and the purples. I
was fantastic. I remember, I remember the blues. Now, I
think where the debate starts is when the child leaves
the home. It seems like it's no big deal for
the most part, if a kid wants to, you know,
(02:19):
put some cookie eyes shadow on and run around. But
if the child wants to leave the home like that, well,
get ready to be scrutinized. Yeah, and God forbid you
blog about it. Earlier this spring, Lindsay Cross, who's a mom,
wrote a blog post on mommyish dot com about her
(02:41):
four year old daughter's interest in makeup, and she described
it as a bonding routine, you know, because her daughter
watches her put makeup on before she leaves the house
and naturally is curious about it and wants to participate,
also wants to explore. Now, this blog post attracted so
much attention and really so much rage that Good Morning
(03:01):
America did an interview with her to to talk about
this and the way that she she writes the post
isn't like, yeah, I buy my four year old daughter makeup,
and you know what, she's a lot prettier with some
blush on. That's all I'm saying. No, she actually says.
Here's here's an excerpt from it. She says, for my
(03:22):
little girl, makeup feels like something we do to show
that an event is important to us. It's an extra
step that lets us spend a little frivolous time with
brushes and powders. Sometimes I don't even put any actual
makeup on. I just run the brushes over a skin.
It doesn't change the fund for her. But then when
the daughter is being interviewed on Good Morning America, she
(03:43):
says that she likes putting on makeup quote because it
makes me pretty. The debate continues, Yeah, there is a
major backlash. Everybody's saying that the daughter is too young,
that she's falling prey to society's notions of beauty and uh.
An adolescent psychiatrist, even I'm dan Henry Paul said that
four is definitely too young. Quote. The use of makeup
(04:05):
in some ways can be addictive, and what these children
would be addicted to is the pursuit of perfection, the superficial,
the skin deep, I'm only as good as I look attitude. Well,
and then there's the whole big fear as well that
has been echoed by UM. Some psychologists who are also
have also been interviewed on this topic who're talking about, uh,
(04:25):
the sexualization of girls. Essentially, you you let a girl
at too young of an age put on some lipstick
and leave the house and quote. According to Dr Robert Buttersworth,
a clinical psychologist in Los Angeles who was interviewed for
parent Dish, he says, uh, if in parentheses, she's putting
(04:46):
on makeup, because everyone else is doing it or so
guys will notice him. Those are dangerous signals. However, if
the girl has scratches, scars, or acne, it might be okay.
So some mixed some mixed signals. But but let's also
talk about girls in makeup first from a marketing standpoint,
(05:06):
because I think one of the big reasons that this
is becoming such an intense debate is because the makeup
and cosmetics and beauty products marketed to tweens that would
be nine to twelve year olds and pre tweens god,
you mean children, Yes, children in market I'm using marketing speak,
(05:31):
pre tweens, six to eight year olds. The beauty products
are being They're so much more beauty products being marketed
to them, which I think is it's sort of undergirding
all of this. Yeah, because Walmart has a line called
Geo Girl that a lot of people are kind of
up in arms about. And Disney, you know, Disney has
(05:51):
various lines. Uh. Johanna Moony from Disney Consumer Products says
that a ten year old doesn't need anything to be beautiful, right,
so that's good. She says, they want to be playful
and aspirational. Okay, then she says, they want a little fantasy,
and we want her to feel that she is feeling good.
So okay, well that's okay, Well you are okay. You
(06:15):
want the little girl to feel good by putting a makeup.
You know, when I was a pretween, Caroline, I just
wanted to live my best life. I always feel good.
He wanted to put on your I cream at night,
put your hair in curlers, feel really good about yourself.
I'm pretty sure I was still in the sandbox. I
would look at myself in the mirror and say, could
I just indulge in some fantasy? Please? Please, mother, let
(06:40):
me engage in fantasy. Yeah, you mentioned Walmart selling Geo Girl.
Target another big box retailer. You can go there get Hello.
Kitty Brand cosmetics also cover Girl that doesn't mark it
directly to the younger's nevertheless, has the ads featuring Taylor Swift,
which has also been interpreted as a marketing move to
(07:01):
those tweens and pre tweens. I'm not gonna stop. One
thing that is sort of ridiculous about the Walmart Geo
Girl line is that the names of the makeup all
reference text speak, which by itself is infuriating. I think
tech speak is ridiculous, and I'm like, I can't I
can't read your text message. What are you sending to me?
(07:22):
So they have names like the T two G cleanser,
which means time to go, the T I S C body, Miss,
this is so cool? Uh, and the Q T Pie
mineral blush, which I don't have to hopefully explain what
that is. Um, but it's all all these products from
Walmart and the Geo Girl line are all natural but
include anti aging ingredients. Riddle me that. Christine Ponger also,
(07:47):
in my pre tween years, staring into the mirror, I
had a deathly fear of crow. Sweet Yeah. Walmart representative
actually told the Wall Street Journal that this line was
a response from consumers asking, quote, I really need to
help and educate my child on how to take care
of our skin. Um, and the whole question of whether
(08:08):
or not girls are buying and wearing makeup at her
younger age, The answer really is yes. Uh. Leslie Gibbs,
who was a marketing director at a Spire Brands Ink,
which is the marketer of Bonnabelle and Lips Smacker makeup lines,
I know about you, Caroline lips smackers. I knew a
(08:28):
girl who was addicted to Dr Pepper flavored lip smackers.
Truth she got a lip loss rehab. No, I don't
know how she weaned herself off of it. But when
we had a slumber party one night, she had to
sleep on the outside of the bed so to be
within arms reach of her Dr Pepper lip smackers. Sounds
like anxiety issues, but whatever, I don't know. But anyway,
(08:52):
Leslie Gibbs says, girls start cosmetics usage really as young
as six. I would be a pretween. Then at a
certain age and that's becoming younger and younger, she begins
to want to enter real cosmetics as an enhancement to
which all of these companies are saying, yes, wonderful. Yeah,
(09:13):
instead of just rating your mom's makeup cabinet, you just you.
You now have your own line that you can spend
money on. And the NPD Group in April did confirm
their their marketing research group. They did confirm the regular
use of certain cosmetics is rising sharply among tween girls.
They didn't get into the pre tween They said that
(09:34):
from two thousand seven to two thousand nine, the percentage
of girls eight to twelve who regularly use mascara and
eyeliner nearly doubled from ten to eighteen percent from mascara
and nine to fent for eyeliner. Yeah, and also from
the NPD group. Um, the average age UH the girls
start using beauty products has gone down and this was
(09:55):
this is a pretty big jump. This is from Newsweek
Girport by Jessica Bennett. According to MPD in two thousand five,
the average age for you starting to use beauty products
was seventeen, which seems awfully high, and then reporting that
in two thousand nine the average age is thirteen. Uh.
(10:16):
And also another marketing firm experience this is also from
two thousand nine, found that forty three percent of pre
tweens the Surrey cruises out there already we're using ellipsick
or gloss regularly, and thirty eight percent we're using hairstyling products.
In twelve percent we're using other cosmetics. These these kids
(10:39):
sound far more sophisticated than I was when I was
carrying around my my fake purse when I was feeling
fancy as a young one, I think it was just
full of rocks and broken pencils. Yeah, I had a
lot of monster trucks and match car, matchbox whatever, the
cars that are small. Um Eva Chin, who's ever at
(11:02):
teen Vogue, says that, you know, maybe this is because
it's exciting for tween girls. They haven't been allowed to
wear makeup. It's been taboo. We may we make it taboo,
so they're very excited to get to do something that
they see as only being sort of in the realm
of the older women. But women of all other age groups,
including teens, report using less makeup. What is that about, Well,
(11:27):
it might have something to do with the economy. There
has been a trend among cosmetics sales. Even though we
hear about things like the Lipstick Index, which says that
when the economy is down, the sales of things like
lipsticks will go up because it's a small luxury that
we can treat ourselves to. But overall, during the recession,
(11:48):
cosmetics sales have been down except for yeah, this tween group,
and now as of two thousand nine, tweens are spending
forty million dollars per month on beauty products. So of
course it makes sense that we have lines like Geo
Girl that are launching and cover Girl possibly using models
(12:09):
that are more attractive to younger audiences because hey, it's
a new cash cow, start them younger. And this was
another thing that Jessica Bennett points out in her Newsweek
article was that this is a really good thing for
cosmetics companies that the girls are getting started, even with
just a simple lip gloss earlier, because the habits and
brand loyalties that start then tend to follow women through
(12:33):
their mid sixties. Like I know with my mom, there
is one color and one brand of lipstick that she
has bought ever since I have paid attention, you know.
And it's so for years, lots of years she has
bought this. Okay, So, continuing on with the whole trend discussion,
this wasn't an AP story that said, overall, girls thirteen
(12:57):
and seventeen, so are they still tweens? Are they teens
at that point? Yes? They once you once you pass
twelve into thirteen, you're actually a teenager. Yeah all right, okay, Well,
so overall the story found that girls thirteen is seventeen
still use more makeup than their younger sisters, the tweens
and the pre tweens. I hate myself, but the percentage
(13:19):
of high schoolers using makeup now is less than it
was a few years ago, while the percentage of elementary
and middle school girls is higher. And they write in
the story that by age eighteen, these girls are looking
to keep their skin healthy and enhance their appearance with
tried and true cosmetics. Like Kristen mentioned the brand loyalty thing,
their whole experimental phase is largely over. But then that's
(13:39):
the whole crux of this question, over at what age
is it okay for girls to start wearing makeup? Because
a like, even by asking the question, we're saying, yeah,
there comes a point when probably you're going to want
to slap some stuff on your face to enhance your appearance.
And then when we're talking about what agent is, it's um,
(14:02):
you know, like wondering whether or not there even needs
to be this experimental phase, like whether or not we're
just giving money to corporations essentially to buying into this
beauty myth of having to look a certain way and
now that's starting so young. Um, And yeah, like what
is to say about the female body image that it
(14:23):
might be okay for for kids to start wearing Well,
that whole argument is exactly why so many people are
so angry about this topic, like why it's become just
kind of a question of like, let in a little
girl play with the eyeshadow in the bathroom, and now
it's become like you're affecting her body image UM. Stacy Malkin,
who's the author of Not Just a Pretty Face, The
(14:45):
Ugly Side of the Beauty Industry, says the parents are
fighting a losing battle with the beauty industry and blames
you know, this relentless marketing pressure on young girls to
look older, and the companies that are coming up with
these makeup lines for young girls and these marketing campaigns
are saying, not creating demand, we're answering demand. So there's
that issue of like okay, chicken or egg. You know,
(15:06):
did they really want this so we created it or
did they kind of just want to play with it
innocently and we exploited a hole in the market. Yeah.
I think that you definitely cannot discount the power of
UM advertising. I mean I remember flipping through ads or
magazines and ads and seeing the images of girls obviously
(15:28):
like with makeup on UM. But I think that too,
we can't shirk off the responsibility that we have as
adults for the fact that a lot of times, I
think this is also a product of younger girls emulating
the activity they see from older women. I mean, if
I didn't have three women on a daily basis modeling
(15:52):
that kind of like makeup normative makeup behavior in front
of me, I don't know if it would have been
as big of a deal for me to start wearing makeup.
Um at how old was I I don't know, maybe
like fourteen regularly wearing it, and I had a full
like makeup regiment that I did in high school. It
took a while. Yeah, I had to get up really
(16:13):
early before school, but mine was mainly my hair. Yeah,
well it was the hair and the makeup. It was
the whole shebang. But it was also you know, I
mean I had seen for years, like my my sisters
would do the same thing. My mom takes still I
love your mom takes forever because it's the whole makeup thing.
And then also, um, you know we're shaking our angry
(16:33):
fist said, oh this this is the beauty industry. But
then again, think about this. There was a two thousand
twelve Harris Pole that was conducted on behalf of the
Renfrew Center Foundation which is dedicated to eliminating eating disorders
and looking into your research on body image and the
survey found that nearly half of all US women have
(16:53):
negative feelings being feeling unattractive, naked, or self conscious about
not where ing makeup and about of us this is
the adult population now began wearing makeup at thirteen years
old or earlier. So, even though the supply might be
larger in terms of more product lines specifically directed at
(17:17):
these younger girls, is it all that new that we
are that we're experimenting. Yeah, maybe we just have blogs
now so people can express their anger more readily. That
could be. And if I were a parent, I can
understand the maybe the unease of all of a sudden
(17:37):
you have a young daughter and she's wearing makeup because
it is you know, it's it's kind of a a
visual marker of maturation. Yeah. Like I don't remember who
it was, but I think it was the Disney people. Yeah,
they said that, you know, our line consists mainly of
lip gloss and bombs and nail polishes and body glitter
and whatever, um, but not eyeshadow because that's too old. Yeah, Well,
(18:00):
don't put your kid night and well, and the thing
is too A lot of times, from what I've gathered,
when you hear warnings about a girl looking too old,
those are the fears about hyper sexualization, of saying, oh, well,
if you leave the house like this, then you know
you're gonna attract unwanted attention, which then opens up a
(18:24):
lot of other conversations about beauty and appearance and the
culture that we live in that puts the entire onus
of a woman's bodily safety onto her shoulders. Um, but
what about some advice from Amy Poehler. Yeah, let's hear it.
I feel like Amy Poehler is a great person to
(18:44):
go to because she is radical, and she also for
folks who don't know this about Ammy Poler, who might
only know her from uh Parks and rec and Baby
Mama and SNL. She also helps run this thing called
Smart Girls at the Party. They have a website. It's
really cool and it promotes girls being smart and awesome.
And she has a segment that she does called ask
(19:06):
Amy where she answers questions and a a fourteen year
old wrote in asking her about makeup her thoughts on
makeup because her dad did not want her wearing makeup,
but her friends were starting to wear makeup, and at fourteen,
that's a tough age because yeah, I mean, I think
that's not too uncommon for makeup to start being a thing.
(19:27):
So a couple of things she said was, I think
every fourteen year old is pretty enough that you don't
even need it, because that is the thing a lot
of times, like when we're we wear makeup as older
women to look younger. Um. But she recommended negotiating with
a dad to wear just a little bit. She was like,
parents freak out about their daughters wearing makeup because it's
(19:47):
a visible sign that they're growing up. So she wasn't
wholeheardly like don't wear makeup, you don't need it, but
she acknowledged, hew, you know what you're probably I know
that you're attractive enough, but I understand the peer pressure
factor and maybe the parents should give in a little bit.
How about some mascara that doesn't seem Yeah, I mean,
(20:07):
my mom, let me start wearing concealer because I had
I had a breakout problem when I was in experiencing puberty,
enjoying all the puberty had to offer. So she was like, yeah,
totally go ahead, where your concealer if it makes you
feel better, Because I'm not sure. I'm thinking back on
my like early teen years. I probably didn't do the
(20:29):
greatest job applying it, but she was probably like, Okay,
if it's going to get you to stop fretting, then
cover your face. That's fine, go ahead, just cover your face.
Let's cover your face with the sack. But another thing,
another thing to kind of bring this full circle, my
mother bought me the Tinkerbell Cosmetics sets. Oh those, yes,
(20:50):
And okay, so I had the peel off nail polish,
the solid perfume, and I think I had the lipstick,
but I can't remember. Lipstick is in quotes because I
kind of remember it be being more of like a
chopstick type thing, so I would need someone to write
in and tell me for sure what that was. But
I just remember like loving the look of my my
bright pink fingernails and immediately being the scratch scratch, scratch,
(21:11):
scratch scratch, yeah, because it all appeels yeah immediately, and
it was like, Okay, well that's so cool. I feel
like such a grown up. But now I'm gonna go
in the sandbox and it's all going to come off
well okay, So since uh, to wrap things up. Since
the question then that we pose is what at what
age is it okay for a girl to start wearing
makeup or boy? We haven't even talked about boys wearing makeup.
(21:33):
Let me just say, um, so maybe another conversation. But
what what do you think? Because it seemed like the
standard answer that I found that people started to be
okay with it was around twelve thirteen. Well, I think
letting any age is okay to let them play with
(21:53):
makeup and experiment with makeup at home. I'm not as
far as letting them leave house and bright red lipstick.
I mean whatever, you're the parent, you know your kid.
You know, I don't know if they're going to be
upset or have fun or whatever. Yeah, I don't know.
That's kind of a non answer. Yeah, I mean it's
that's that's the whole thing about parenting. It's so easy
(22:18):
to say, yeah, you know, like let him, you know,
play around at home, and then they could maybe go
out or not go out. I'll be cool that we
don't know. So I don't know, we don't have to parents.
Please answer this question for us, if you could, at
what age. Is it okay for uh girls start wearing makeup?
Did you kind of come to some kind of compromise
(22:40):
in terms of easing them into it? It was there
a no makeup, no cosmetics rule. Um. And also for
for folks out there, when did you start wearing makeup?
Did just sneak it? Or or what? Yeah? Alright, so
many questions. Let us know your thoughts. Mom. Stuff at
Discovery dot com is where you can send your letters,
(23:02):
and we actually have a couple of letters here in
the meantime about buying cars. But wait, hang on, Kristen,
before we do listener mail, we do have a quick
message for our listeners from our sponsor, Netflix, which helped
bring them today's episode of Stuff Mom Never told you Today.
You know, we talked about the controversy surrounding young girls
(23:22):
wearing makeup and whether it's appropriate. It can be hard
being apparent with all those decisions. Nobody warned you you
would have to buy blush for your pretween. I still
hate that word. So if you want help seeing the
comedy in these situations and get a little perspective, you
should head over to Netflix dot com to watch episodes
of shows like Arrested Development, Malcolm in the Middle, and
(23:43):
Parenthood instantly streaming that can help give a little bit
of perspective to those harried parents out there. These shows
are of course subject to availability on Netflix. So when
you go sign up at Netflix dot com as a
new member and a dedicated stuff mom never told you listener,
you can get a free thirty day trial membership. Just
(24:04):
go to Netflix dot com slash mom and sign up
and be sure to use that you are l so
they know that Kristen and I sent you over there,
and the thirty day free trial won't be around forever.
So head over to Netflix dot com slash mom a
sap to sign up today. So anyway, back to our letters.
(24:28):
I've got an email here from Emily and she wanted
to write in because she's worked at a car dealership
for a year and a half now and had some
tips to send us. She says, first off, I confess
that I do tend to see a lot of sexism,
but among my coworkers and management and with customers, however,
it's not as bad as it used to be. And
(24:50):
she recommends doing your research. She said, not only can
you research vehicle feature and pricing, you can also research
dealers and salesman. Dealer rader dot com is a great
site for this purpose. You can search dealers nationwide and
read reviews and ratings of sales and service departments and
even individual sales people can like rate my professor dot
(25:11):
com or the car Business. She also says, don't assume
we're holding money back or that the salesperson is making
a lot of money off of you. The guys in
my internet department often make only a hundred dollars from
a deal. There isn't as much holdback as you think,
and that amount can vary from car to car and
make to make. Also, don't felt any credit card applications
(25:33):
until you know what you want to buy from your dealership. Yes,
this will hamper the dealership in question from being able
to give you an exact idea of what your payments
and interest rate would be, but every time you submit
an application, it shows up on your credit report and
can make your make your credit rating go down at
least a point or two. Also, don't fill credit applications
out online to random sites that promise you financing. There
(25:55):
are always in all caps strings attached, and the majority
of links you'll find when you search for vehicle financing
are owned by the same company. Also, don't expect something
for nothing. Some people are able to buy a car
for nothing down These people tend to have amazing credit,
a trade that they owed less than what it was
worth on and they don't seem to mind paying interest
(26:17):
on taxes. You heard me right, They pay interest on
their taxes. Everyone has to pay taxes, titling and licensing
fees on a vehicle. These are acquired in every state.
And finally, she says, be nice. Not all of us
are out to scam you or pressure you into buying.
We are human beings with feelings and the occasional bad
day too. If you are no longer interested or want
(26:37):
us to stop calling you, please tell us politely. Don't
yell or curseet us, don't hang up on us, don't
ignore our calls or our voicemails. It will take just
a quick moment to let us know where your head
is at and what you are wanting us to do.
If you don't want lots of follow up phone calls,
tell our salesperson right up front. If we still call,
don't get mad. The salesperson may not have told any
of the people who make the phone calls just people
(26:58):
like and asked to be removed the follow up list. Okay,
this is an email from Laurie about car buying and
her story is is crazy it's crazy pants. Okay, so
she says, years ago, my co workers and I received
a large payout from our company. My husband was in
need of a new work truck. He found what he
wanted and needed me to go the day he was
to purchase it so I could pay for it. When
(27:20):
we got there, my husband and his salesman went to
look at the truck and I went inside to wait.
As I was killing time, I walked over to look
at a corvette on the showroom floor. A young salesman
walked up to me and said, you're a woman. You
wouldn't have the money to buy a car like this,
see as a crazy pants It's crazy town. He said
this as my husband was walking in the door. My
(27:41):
husband politely told his salesman that he thought we should
go elsewhere. As we were walking out, my husband's salesman
told the young salesman she probably has enough money to
buy three of those cars. We went to another dealership
and bought my husband a truck, where they didn't make
assumptions on what you can afford to buy based on
whether you were male or female. So thank you, Laurie.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. That's ridiculous,
(28:02):
totally ridiculous. Uh. And if you have ridiculous stories to
send our way, mom Stuff at discovery dot com is
where you can send them, or you can head over
and share them on our Facebook page, Like us while
you're at it, and follow us on Twitter at Mom's
Stuff Podcast. Oh and you can also find us on
Tumbler at stuff mom Never told You dot tumbler dot com.
(28:24):
And if you would like to learn about makeup, I've
got one place to go where you can find lots
of information. It's our website how stuff Works dot com
for more on this and thousands of other topics. Because
it how stuff works dot com
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