July 25, 2011 • 20 mins
It's no secret that most cultures have fairly defined cultural roles assigned to each gender. This is especially apparent in the dating scene, where men are often assumed to be the aggressive party. But why? Tune in to learn more about dating and society.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never Told you?
From How Stuff Works dot Com? Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and welcome to
(00:21):
stuff Mom Never told you. Caroline, Thank you. This is
the official first episode featuring the new co host UM.
As many of your listeners probably know, Molly has decided
to UM pursue more riding with how Stuff Works dot Com.
And that opened up a seat at the podcasting table.
(00:41):
And I'm so excited to have Caroline, another inquisitive, well spoken,
funny lady to speak with me. Wow. Thanks Kristen, You're welcome.
It's good to be here. Yeah. You and I go
way back, actually all the way back to college. Oh god,
and that and I hate how that is a longer
(01:02):
and longer time. I know, I know, I remember most
of it so clearly. Yes, we worked. Actually a fun
fact for our listeners, we worked together at our college newspaper.
We did you You did a lot of government stuff.
I did, yes, and I had a special emphasis on
the low income community. You did, And I remember yelling
(01:23):
at you frequently about how you'd write a lot more
than you were supposed to. Really, I don't remember that.
All I remember is you praising me because when I
first came onto the newspaper, Caroline was editor in chief
and I was alert, intimidated, But then I liked you
thought where you were cool because you would curse in
the staff meetings. Yes, I do have a dirty, filthy mouth,
(01:45):
but not on the podcast. No, no, I yeah that
does not exist here. No, no, it doesn't. Um, But
we're very glad to have you on. So why don't
we jump into our first topic. Let's do it. Okay,
So this is actually one that you suggested, Caroline, So
I'm going to just toss it to you. You want
to explain what we're going to chat about. Sure, we
(02:05):
are going to talk about dating dynamics and can women
be the aggressors in a relationship? And we should go
ahead and say that we are speaking as it happens
a lot of times in our episodes on dating. We're
speaking from a very hetero standpoint here in terms of
women being able to chase men right, ask them out
(02:26):
on the dates exactly, because anecdotally not always easy. I
know it doesn't always work out that well, you would
think that guys would want us to, uh to pursue them.
And you know, I'm not saying that all dudes don't
want us to put a little chase, you know, but actually,
you know, hasn't worked out that great. You know, it
(02:47):
hasn't always been Speaking of what you like you said,
guys do, especially guys our age, I feel like um
tend to agree that it would be great if girls
just did all the work, the work, yeah, and just
approached them. There was a column that we found from
the Frisky by this guy named John Devoir, and he
(03:07):
was all about women asking men out, taking taking the
dating reins, and he said that that would be us
marching towards gender equality. Yeah, it sounds like we have pitchforks, Yes,
and we are going to get a date. We have
started works and credit cards, ready to pay the dinner task.
You will date me into the likest yes, and you
will appreciate my aggressive dating tactics. But in reality, John Devoir,
(03:32):
and also in science, as we will get to, because
we can't just rely on our dating fails. Sadly, Um,
it's not that easy now. According to a recent study
in the journal Sex roles. Dating in gender roles and
expectations of what those roles should be haven't actually changed
that much since the eighties. Since the eighties. Yes, this
(03:55):
study went back and examined a hundred and forty three
uh separate pieces of research ranging from nine to two
thousand and ten with the big question, has dating become
more egalitarian? Answer Caroline, Nope, not really, although there are
some aspects of dating that have changed. For instance, the
(04:18):
hook up culture is bigger now among you know, those
crazy college kids and young folks. Um, there's still a
perception that men should do the asking and the paying
and women should stay inside their little gender rolebox. Right
and um they attribute this to the idea of these
cultural scripts that we have adopted that might provide some
(04:40):
kind of comfortable framework for us to work through as
we're getting to know potential mates. Right. So, but I
read that as, hey, if you're nervous, just act like
a scared little girl, order order a salad, don't eat
too much now, and making pay. I mean, I will
say though, that there has been a little bit it
of progress in terms of um, you know, like dating
(05:03):
has loosened up a little bit. Like you said, we
do have you know, the hook up option. Dating doesn't
necessarily have to be this formal thing that doesn't have
to lead to marriage. We're not being courted, you know,
he's not coming over to our family's house and sitting
in the pala right, and and it's perfectly acceptable. There
was one study actually back from a nine three um
(05:24):
where both men and women, A majority of men and
women said that they wanted to have some kind of
gender equality in a dating like there is an ideal,
and I think that men and women would both like
for the dynamics to be gender equal in terms of
women being able to ask out men and men asking
out women. But time and again in reality and in
(05:45):
the interpersonal relationships, and they went back and examined them,
things went more smoothly when the guy did the asking. Yeah,
I mean, are we just used to our roles? You know,
those traditional dating schemas, the stair creotypes that were used
to I don't know. I think they limit interaction. They
absolutely limit interaction. And I think this is a good
(06:07):
point or a good time I should say to point
out that also in that study, they found that couples
who broke out of those traditional gender roles and also
women who embraced the more feminist ideology. Typically the men
and the women reported more satisfaction as a couple. It's true.
(06:29):
So even though maybe we're scared to break out of
these dating scripts, but maybe there's a lot more dating
satisfaction down the line if we can somehow get beyond this. True.
That's also a matter of who you meet though. I mean,
you know, there are guys who will never want to be,
you know, asked up by a woman. There are girls
who will never ask out a guy. Yeah, and some yeah,
(06:50):
like exactly. It's not just an issue of of men failing.
It's also and I shouldn't say it's that's that's harsh,
but it's not. Let me rephrase that. It's not an
issue you of um men just being uncomfortable with this
notion of some kind of aggressive woman, because like you said,
I mean women. There's some women, women I know in fact,
who are entirely uncomfortable with that. They expect that the
(07:15):
guy should should do the work. Well, speaking of someone
being uncomfortable, I found myself in a situation where I
asked a guy out and that wasn't the hard part
because he agreed and we went out and we had fun.
The trouble came when I sort of took the reins
so well, I did do the asking out, and he
(07:35):
seemed fine with that, not weirded out. You know. If
I were him, you're a you're a lovely lady. Why
thank you? I do model on the side now A. Um, yeah, no,
we we hung out and he you know, it seemed
like things were going really well. And so I mean,
can you blame me for feeling encouraged perhaps asking him
(07:56):
out again? You are so address more than one you know,
Oh my gosh, it's I know, it's a weird concept
of liking someone and wanting to hang out with them,
I know. Well, so anyway, yeah, I I started to
see if he wanted to hang out more often, and
he whole a baby, I'm just disappeared, a total vaporization.
(08:20):
Well and see, and this is the point during sex
in the City when we can list down all of
the reasons why he got sick, he broke his leg,
his mom died, all of those reasons. Why. Um you know,
oh god, I was about to say, he's just not
that endo you and I just became a trope. Um.
But yeah, I mean that's I think that anecdote happens
(08:41):
a lot. I've had similar situations happened to me. But maybe, okay,
let's go to evolutionary biology for a minute instead of
let's let's stop making excuses about how getting back together
the next girlfriend or something, and let's go to evolutionary
biology and something called the female reputational defense theory. But
what basically Caroline with a female reputational defense theory would
(09:05):
say to you is that you are coming across as
a little promiscuous. I don't understand. Let me enlighten. Basically,
males suffer. Suffer, like there's some victims. They suffer from
something called a paternity insecurity. And basically it's this notion
(09:26):
that if we become pregnant, there is no way for
a man, aside from paternity testing, to know for sure
that the baby coming out of our womb is his.
And this is something that is plagued men for so long,
and so in order for us to reassure men and
sort of advertise our fitness, they should go on Mari Povic.
(09:48):
Well before that, before that, um, we need to advertise
our sexual fidelity by sort of sitting with our hands
in our laps and way and for the men to
come a calling, because if we're going out, you know,
if if you're asking him out, who else could you
be asking out? Millions? No, I mean probably all your
(10:10):
Facebook friends, mailman, you're probably tweeting yourself hashtagy manager. Yeah.
So there's a homeless guy who sleeps in the market station.
So there's I know, so many people me In fact,
we could even be ask me. So it's this notion
that that set off maybe some signal in this hetero
dude's brain rooted d down in this evolutionary past that
(10:35):
you might not be the fittest mate. Alright, oh god,
you went there, Okay, Um, well so but what what
what does that mean? Because obviously our culture is fine
with men going out and asking a bunch of people out. Yeah,
so where is the equality here? Why can't we do it?
I really wish I could think it's a man's well
right now, I mean, but I don't want to say
(10:56):
that because it's it's not. Um, I mean, that's just
one x nation. And and sometimes evolutionary biology and evolutionary
psychology can definitely go at odds with UH feminism and
also the notion of I mean social evolution or in
progress towards gender equality. But I mean that's one theory.
(11:19):
And then let's go let's talk about Michael Mills. Alright,
I love him. I love him. Do you want to
ask him out? Saying he's a professor of psychology at
Loyal who did a little experiment recently, or just a survey.
Actually it wasn't really much of an experiment. Yeah, he
asked why women aren't asking men out? And he and
(11:40):
some of his students conducted a survey of of nearly
a hundred straight adults to find out. You know, have
you asked anybody out? Have you been asked out? What
do you prefer? Yeah. According to the survey, a mere
nine percent of women said they like to ask dudes out,
while sixteen percent of guys said they like it better
(12:01):
when the lady does the work. Well, hey, there's a gap.
Maybe maybe that's a signal that we should ask more out. Well,
at least the mind find the minority that sixteen percent
in the room. Right, when you walk into a bar
full of a hundred guys, yeah, fine, you know them
are bound to be open to it. They probably look nervous, Yeah,
(12:22):
they're probably the ones kind of sweating looking around shifty
ad or they those could be on drugs. I don't know.
So the point is, yes, they're still in a minority, right,
most guys still to be asking. You know, actually, Michael Mills,
this Michael Mills character says it's time for women to
woman up and get some ovaries, and it's time to
(12:43):
put our fragile egos on the line. Huh okay, Well
maybe it's maybe it's time for Michael Mills. I gotta
response for you. Maybe it's time for you guys to
get over your genetic paternity and security and go out
with us more than once word. Yeah, send that to
send that to Michael Mills. Um, but here's a question though,
(13:05):
in my mind, with all of us we're talking ab
all is hetero back and forth men, women, I want
to know if perhaps this who's gonna ask who out?
What's the rule you got to play? Is that a
lot easier? Is that more of a moot point in
homosexual dating? Well? Yeah, going back to the sexual study, UM,
(13:26):
the authors mentioned that that problem doesn't really exist in
the same way in in homosexual relationships. A lot of
the time, Um, people are just more comfortable asking each
other out, and there's no there's no need to, you know,
back and forth, yeah, back and forth. There's at least
maybe the they don't have that that dating script that
we've been reading and rereading over and acting out ever
(13:51):
since dating really took off in the nineteen twenties. So
I mean, that'd be nice. Yeah, if there was a pressure,
if you could just say, hey, I like you, let's
go out. I mean, okay, we'll see. That's what I do.
It seems natural. Yeah, I mean, if you like someone,
go ahead and ask him out. But you know, according
(14:11):
to people's deep seated biological whatever. But also we can't
just we can't just blame other people though. According to
a two thousand and five study entitled I really like this,
when courtship persistence becomes intrusive pursuit, you might be suffering
from a little bit of over confidence. Yeah, I know,
(14:33):
that's what I figured after well, of course after I
read the study, that's what I figured happened after that
situation earlier. Um, and this goes for men and women,
And that goes for both both the women and the
men who were pursuing that they might just be overestimating
their skills, and that does indeed have a Z on
the end um. The two thousand five studies says that
pursuers in general assume that their targets feel flattered by
(14:56):
their actions, although when the tables are turned and they're
the ones being chased, they're just as likely to report
feelings of annoyance. Yeah, and this was replicated in another
recent study um that some evolutionary psychologists were kind of
digging into, uh, the women pursuing dynamic whether or not
that work, And the same kind of effect happened when
(15:17):
in a speed dating scenario when women were the ones
when guys are sitting at the table and women were
the ones circulating around, they had actually more confidence in
their flirtation skills, again with a z UM. So it's
kind of interesting to see how that is at least
something that we share over confidence. Yeah, one thing we
(15:40):
don't share back to the things of you know, Mars
and venus women men um. Women are more likely to
be concerned about their male pursuers feelings and to think
of them as angry about rejection. So in an attempt
to anger, lessen, or hurt, women can tend to pull
that wishy washy, let's just be friends. Yeah, pulling all that,
which actually might have the reverse effect. You know. They
(16:04):
we think, oh, we're just we're letting him down easy,
but the guy is actually looking for a more direct rejection,
and so we're actually leading them on. They think we're
playing hard to get, which would just make matters worse.
I've ended up, I've ended up in a in certain
situations like that. And whereas like the situation you were
talking about earlier, where the guy just kind of vaporized,
(16:25):
you know, that might be a little more typical because
we might just be dealing with some different communication styles.
So while it might seem like we you and I
have just repeated a lot of and rehashed a lot
of gender stereotypes, I think it all goes back to
these dating scripts and schemas and gender scripts that are
(16:46):
discussed in this sexual study that we have held onto
and followed for thirty five years. Because maybe it is
a little more comfortable. But do you think, Caroline, do
you think we can break the script? I have and
I'll let you know when it works out. Okay, Well,
I'd like to know for a listeners. So I mean,
there have got to be men and women out there? Guys,
(17:08):
what do you think about women approaching you? Women? What
do you think about approaching guys and gay couples out there? Please?
Is it easier? Do you have this problem? How do
you know? And I'd like to know for the guys
out there who like to be asked out, why do
you think you like to be asked out so much? Yeah?
I mean, what is it about you? We have so
many questions, so many questions really, but it is kind
(17:31):
of fascinating because time and again, I do think that
guys will often report that it would be great for
women to to come up and and do the asking,
because every it's always a little flattering to be asked out.
Whether you're interested or not, it's a nice little boost.
But whether or not you're going to follow through, it's
another story. So send us an email, send us something
(17:53):
on write something on Facebook, get in contact with us.
Our email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works dot com.
And let's read a couple of listener emails that we've
gotten in here. We have an email from Michael. He says,
my subculture lifestyle puts me in an odd bubble. Most
of the men I know aren't typical guys. They wear makeup, eyeliner,
(18:17):
mostly somewhere, foundation, nail polish. They're so secure in their
sexuality that they don't flinch at the idea of wearing
anything that would be categorized as women's wear. My boyfriend
can't do is on eyeliner, so he asked me to
do it for him. Whenever we get tarted up to
go out. He owns more makeup than I do. When
I do come across the rare well rare in my
little world guy who thinks it's weird, I am reminded
(18:39):
how very secure my little bubble is still. I love
a man and eyeliner who isn't afraid of the color pink. Indeed,
and that was in response to our episode on men
wearing nakeup. And I have one now to take a
U turn. I've cut one from our episode on east infections. Okay,
uh no, this is this is some useful information and
(19:01):
this comes from Kate, and she writes this is from
some personal experience. She says the drugs that knock out
yeast infections can often cause bacterial bacterial vaginosis and vice versa.
This is because one wipes out bacteria and the other
yeast and creates an imbalance between the two. It's really
important in treating either of these, particularly if they appear
(19:23):
to have come back. You may have in fact knocked
out one and will now be treating it again when
in fact you have the other, because they're similar, and
this is often overlooked. Finding a delicate balance where you
can take a bit of one medication and then the
other and find the yin and the yang. It's the
best way to really kick the infection in this case,
or so says my doctor, and I haven't had trouble sense.
(19:46):
Oh the wonderful world of these infections, and my wonderful
I mean terribly confusing. So if you have any emails
to send our way about yeast, infections, makeup or dating
or anything else, send it our way. His mom stuff
at how stuff works dot com. And why don't you
hop on Facebook and say hello to Caroline Hello, make
her feel welcome in her warm you home of stuffman
(20:11):
never told you, Or you can tweet her at mom
Stuff Podcasts. And then finally we're gonna be blogging It's
stuff Mom Never told you at how stuff works dot com.
Be sure to check out our new video podcast Stuff
from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we
(20:31):
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twelve Camray. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never Told you?
From How Stuff Works dot Com? Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and welcome to
(00:21):
stuff Mom Never told you. Caroline, Thank you. This is
the official first episode featuring the new co host UM.
As many of your listeners probably know, Molly has decided
to UM pursue more riding with how Stuff Works dot Com.
And that opened up a seat at the podcasting table.
(00:41):
And I'm so excited to have Caroline, another inquisitive, well spoken,
funny lady to speak with me. Wow. Thanks Kristen, You're welcome.
It's good to be here. Yeah. You and I go
way back, actually all the way back to college. Oh god,
and that and I hate how that is a longer
(01:02):
and longer time. I know, I know, I remember most
of it so clearly. Yes, we worked. Actually a fun
fact for our listeners, we worked together at our college newspaper.
We did you You did a lot of government stuff.
I did, yes, and I had a special emphasis on
the low income community. You did, And I remember yelling
(01:23):
at you frequently about how you'd write a lot more
than you were supposed to. Really, I don't remember that.
All I remember is you praising me because when I
first came onto the newspaper, Caroline was editor in chief
and I was alert, intimidated, But then I liked you
thought where you were cool because you would curse in
the staff meetings. Yes, I do have a dirty, filthy mouth,
(01:45):
but not on the podcast. No, no, I yeah that
does not exist here. No, no, it doesn't. Um, But
we're very glad to have you on. So why don't
we jump into our first topic. Let's do it. Okay,
So this is actually one that you suggested, Caroline, So
I'm going to just toss it to you. You want
to explain what we're going to chat about. Sure, we
(02:05):
are going to talk about dating dynamics and can women
be the aggressors in a relationship? And we should go
ahead and say that we are speaking as it happens
a lot of times in our episodes on dating. We're
speaking from a very hetero standpoint here in terms of
women being able to chase men right, ask them out
(02:26):
on the dates exactly, because anecdotally not always easy. I
know it doesn't always work out that well, you would
think that guys would want us to, uh to pursue them.
And you know, I'm not saying that all dudes don't
want us to put a little chase, you know, but actually,
you know, hasn't worked out that great. You know, it
(02:47):
hasn't always been Speaking of what you like you said,
guys do, especially guys our age, I feel like um
tend to agree that it would be great if girls
just did all the work, the work, yeah, and just
approached them. There was a column that we found from
the Frisky by this guy named John Devoir, and he
(03:07):
was all about women asking men out, taking taking the
dating reins, and he said that that would be us
marching towards gender equality. Yeah, it sounds like we have pitchforks, Yes,
and we are going to get a date. We have
started works and credit cards, ready to pay the dinner task.
You will date me into the likest yes, and you
will appreciate my aggressive dating tactics. But in reality, John Devoir,
(03:32):
and also in science, as we will get to, because
we can't just rely on our dating fails. Sadly, Um,
it's not that easy now. According to a recent study
in the journal Sex roles. Dating in gender roles and
expectations of what those roles should be haven't actually changed
that much since the eighties. Since the eighties. Yes, this
(03:55):
study went back and examined a hundred and forty three
uh separate pieces of research ranging from nine to two
thousand and ten with the big question, has dating become
more egalitarian? Answer Caroline, Nope, not really, although there are
some aspects of dating that have changed. For instance, the
(04:18):
hook up culture is bigger now among you know, those
crazy college kids and young folks. Um, there's still a
perception that men should do the asking and the paying
and women should stay inside their little gender rolebox. Right
and um they attribute this to the idea of these
cultural scripts that we have adopted that might provide some
(04:40):
kind of comfortable framework for us to work through as
we're getting to know potential mates. Right. So, but I
read that as, hey, if you're nervous, just act like
a scared little girl, order order a salad, don't eat
too much now, and making pay. I mean, I will
say though, that there has been a little bit it
of progress in terms of um, you know, like dating
(05:03):
has loosened up a little bit. Like you said, we
do have you know, the hook up option. Dating doesn't
necessarily have to be this formal thing that doesn't have
to lead to marriage. We're not being courted, you know,
he's not coming over to our family's house and sitting
in the pala right, and and it's perfectly acceptable. There
was one study actually back from a nine three um
(05:24):
where both men and women, A majority of men and
women said that they wanted to have some kind of
gender equality in a dating like there is an ideal,
and I think that men and women would both like
for the dynamics to be gender equal in terms of
women being able to ask out men and men asking
out women. But time and again in reality and in
(05:45):
the interpersonal relationships, and they went back and examined them,
things went more smoothly when the guy did the asking. Yeah,
I mean, are we just used to our roles? You know,
those traditional dating schemas, the stair creotypes that were used
to I don't know. I think they limit interaction. They
absolutely limit interaction. And I think this is a good
(06:07):
point or a good time I should say to point
out that also in that study, they found that couples
who broke out of those traditional gender roles and also
women who embraced the more feminist ideology. Typically the men
and the women reported more satisfaction as a couple. It's true.
(06:29):
So even though maybe we're scared to break out of
these dating scripts, but maybe there's a lot more dating
satisfaction down the line if we can somehow get beyond this. True.
That's also a matter of who you meet though. I mean,
you know, there are guys who will never want to be,
you know, asked up by a woman. There are girls
who will never ask out a guy. Yeah, and some yeah,
(06:50):
like exactly. It's not just an issue of of men failing.
It's also and I shouldn't say it's that's that's harsh,
but it's not. Let me rephrase that. It's not an
issue you of um men just being uncomfortable with this
notion of some kind of aggressive woman, because like you said,
I mean women. There's some women, women I know in fact,
who are entirely uncomfortable with that. They expect that the
(07:15):
guy should should do the work. Well, speaking of someone
being uncomfortable, I found myself in a situation where I
asked a guy out and that wasn't the hard part
because he agreed and we went out and we had fun.
The trouble came when I sort of took the reins
so well, I did do the asking out, and he
(07:35):
seemed fine with that, not weirded out. You know. If
I were him, you're a you're a lovely lady. Why
thank you? I do model on the side now A. Um, yeah, no,
we we hung out and he you know, it seemed
like things were going really well. And so I mean,
can you blame me for feeling encouraged perhaps asking him
(07:56):
out again? You are so address more than one you know,
Oh my gosh, it's I know, it's a weird concept
of liking someone and wanting to hang out with them,
I know. Well, so anyway, yeah, I I started to
see if he wanted to hang out more often, and
he whole a baby, I'm just disappeared, a total vaporization.
(08:20):
Well and see, and this is the point during sex
in the City when we can list down all of
the reasons why he got sick, he broke his leg,
his mom died, all of those reasons. Why. Um you know,
oh god, I was about to say, he's just not
that endo you and I just became a trope. Um.
But yeah, I mean that's I think that anecdote happens
(08:41):
a lot. I've had similar situations happened to me. But maybe, okay,
let's go to evolutionary biology for a minute instead of
let's let's stop making excuses about how getting back together
the next girlfriend or something, and let's go to evolutionary
biology and something called the female reputational defense theory. But
what basically Caroline with a female reputational defense theory would
(09:05):
say to you is that you are coming across as
a little promiscuous. I don't understand. Let me enlighten. Basically,
males suffer. Suffer, like there's some victims. They suffer from
something called a paternity insecurity. And basically it's this notion
(09:26):
that if we become pregnant, there is no way for
a man, aside from paternity testing, to know for sure
that the baby coming out of our womb is his.
And this is something that is plagued men for so long,
and so in order for us to reassure men and
sort of advertise our fitness, they should go on Mari Povic.
(09:48):
Well before that, before that, um, we need to advertise
our sexual fidelity by sort of sitting with our hands
in our laps and way and for the men to
come a calling, because if we're going out, you know,
if if you're asking him out, who else could you
be asking out? Millions? No, I mean probably all your
(10:10):
Facebook friends, mailman, you're probably tweeting yourself hashtagy manager. Yeah.
So there's a homeless guy who sleeps in the market station.
So there's I know, so many people me In fact,
we could even be ask me. So it's this notion
that that set off maybe some signal in this hetero
dude's brain rooted d down in this evolutionary past that
(10:35):
you might not be the fittest mate. Alright, oh god,
you went there, Okay, Um, well so but what what
what does that mean? Because obviously our culture is fine
with men going out and asking a bunch of people out. Yeah,
so where is the equality here? Why can't we do it?
I really wish I could think it's a man's well
right now, I mean, but I don't want to say
(10:56):
that because it's it's not. Um, I mean, that's just
one x nation. And and sometimes evolutionary biology and evolutionary
psychology can definitely go at odds with UH feminism and
also the notion of I mean social evolution or in
progress towards gender equality. But I mean that's one theory.
(11:19):
And then let's go let's talk about Michael Mills. Alright,
I love him. I love him. Do you want to
ask him out? Saying he's a professor of psychology at
Loyal who did a little experiment recently, or just a survey.
Actually it wasn't really much of an experiment. Yeah, he
asked why women aren't asking men out? And he and
(11:40):
some of his students conducted a survey of of nearly
a hundred straight adults to find out. You know, have
you asked anybody out? Have you been asked out? What
do you prefer? Yeah. According to the survey, a mere
nine percent of women said they like to ask dudes out,
while sixteen percent of guys said they like it better
(12:01):
when the lady does the work. Well, hey, there's a gap.
Maybe maybe that's a signal that we should ask more out. Well,
at least the mind find the minority that sixteen percent
in the room. Right, when you walk into a bar
full of a hundred guys, yeah, fine, you know them
are bound to be open to it. They probably look nervous, Yeah,
(12:22):
they're probably the ones kind of sweating looking around shifty
ad or they those could be on drugs. I don't know.
So the point is, yes, they're still in a minority, right,
most guys still to be asking. You know, actually, Michael Mills,
this Michael Mills character says it's time for women to
woman up and get some ovaries, and it's time to
(12:43):
put our fragile egos on the line. Huh okay, Well
maybe it's maybe it's time for Michael Mills. I gotta
response for you. Maybe it's time for you guys to
get over your genetic paternity and security and go out
with us more than once word. Yeah, send that to
send that to Michael Mills. Um, but here's a question though,
(13:05):
in my mind, with all of us we're talking ab
all is hetero back and forth men, women, I want
to know if perhaps this who's gonna ask who out?
What's the rule you got to play? Is that a
lot easier? Is that more of a moot point in
homosexual dating? Well? Yeah, going back to the sexual study, UM,
(13:26):
the authors mentioned that that problem doesn't really exist in
the same way in in homosexual relationships. A lot of
the time, Um, people are just more comfortable asking each
other out, and there's no there's no need to, you know,
back and forth, yeah, back and forth. There's at least
maybe the they don't have that that dating script that
we've been reading and rereading over and acting out ever
(13:51):
since dating really took off in the nineteen twenties. So
I mean, that'd be nice. Yeah, if there was a pressure,
if you could just say, hey, I like you, let's
go out. I mean, okay, we'll see. That's what I do.
It seems natural. Yeah, I mean, if you like someone,
go ahead and ask him out. But you know, according
(14:11):
to people's deep seated biological whatever. But also we can't
just we can't just blame other people though. According to
a two thousand and five study entitled I really like this,
when courtship persistence becomes intrusive pursuit, you might be suffering
from a little bit of over confidence. Yeah, I know,
(14:33):
that's what I figured after well, of course after I
read the study, that's what I figured happened after that
situation earlier. Um, and this goes for men and women,
And that goes for both both the women and the
men who were pursuing that they might just be overestimating
their skills, and that does indeed have a Z on
the end um. The two thousand five studies says that
pursuers in general assume that their targets feel flattered by
(14:56):
their actions, although when the tables are turned and they're
the ones being chased, they're just as likely to report
feelings of annoyance. Yeah, and this was replicated in another
recent study um that some evolutionary psychologists were kind of
digging into, uh, the women pursuing dynamic whether or not
that work, And the same kind of effect happened when
(15:17):
in a speed dating scenario when women were the ones
when guys are sitting at the table and women were
the ones circulating around, they had actually more confidence in
their flirtation skills, again with a z UM. So it's
kind of interesting to see how that is at least
something that we share over confidence. Yeah, one thing we
(15:40):
don't share back to the things of you know, Mars
and venus women men um. Women are more likely to
be concerned about their male pursuers feelings and to think
of them as angry about rejection. So in an attempt
to anger, lessen, or hurt, women can tend to pull
that wishy washy, let's just be friends. Yeah, pulling all that,
which actually might have the reverse effect. You know. They
(16:04):
we think, oh, we're just we're letting him down easy,
but the guy is actually looking for a more direct rejection,
and so we're actually leading them on. They think we're
playing hard to get, which would just make matters worse.
I've ended up, I've ended up in a in certain
situations like that. And whereas like the situation you were
talking about earlier, where the guy just kind of vaporized,
(16:25):
you know, that might be a little more typical because
we might just be dealing with some different communication styles.
So while it might seem like we you and I
have just repeated a lot of and rehashed a lot
of gender stereotypes, I think it all goes back to
these dating scripts and schemas and gender scripts that are
(16:46):
discussed in this sexual study that we have held onto
and followed for thirty five years. Because maybe it is
a little more comfortable. But do you think, Caroline, do
you think we can break the script? I have and
I'll let you know when it works out. Okay, Well,
I'd like to know for a listeners. So I mean,
there have got to be men and women out there? Guys,
(17:08):
what do you think about women approaching you? Women? What
do you think about approaching guys and gay couples out there? Please?
Is it easier? Do you have this problem? How do
you know? And I'd like to know for the guys
out there who like to be asked out, why do
you think you like to be asked out so much? Yeah?
I mean, what is it about you? We have so
many questions, so many questions really, but it is kind
(17:31):
of fascinating because time and again, I do think that
guys will often report that it would be great for
women to to come up and and do the asking,
because every it's always a little flattering to be asked out.
Whether you're interested or not, it's a nice little boost.
But whether or not you're going to follow through, it's
another story. So send us an email, send us something
(17:53):
on write something on Facebook, get in contact with us.
Our email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works dot com.
And let's read a couple of listener emails that we've
gotten in here. We have an email from Michael. He says,
my subculture lifestyle puts me in an odd bubble. Most
of the men I know aren't typical guys. They wear makeup, eyeliner,
(18:17):
mostly somewhere, foundation, nail polish. They're so secure in their
sexuality that they don't flinch at the idea of wearing
anything that would be categorized as women's wear. My boyfriend
can't do is on eyeliner, so he asked me to
do it for him. Whenever we get tarted up to
go out. He owns more makeup than I do. When
I do come across the rare well rare in my
little world guy who thinks it's weird, I am reminded
(18:39):
how very secure my little bubble is still. I love
a man and eyeliner who isn't afraid of the color pink. Indeed,
and that was in response to our episode on men
wearing nakeup. And I have one now to take a
U turn. I've cut one from our episode on east infections. Okay,
uh no, this is this is some useful information and
(19:01):
this comes from Kate, and she writes this is from
some personal experience. She says the drugs that knock out
yeast infections can often cause bacterial bacterial vaginosis and vice versa.
This is because one wipes out bacteria and the other
yeast and creates an imbalance between the two. It's really
important in treating either of these, particularly if they appear
(19:23):
to have come back. You may have in fact knocked
out one and will now be treating it again when
in fact you have the other, because they're similar, and
this is often overlooked. Finding a delicate balance where you
can take a bit of one medication and then the
other and find the yin and the yang. It's the
best way to really kick the infection in this case,
or so says my doctor, and I haven't had trouble sense.
(19:46):
Oh the wonderful world of these infections, and my wonderful
I mean terribly confusing. So if you have any emails
to send our way about yeast, infections, makeup or dating
or anything else, send it our way. His mom stuff
at how stuff works dot com. And why don't you
hop on Facebook and say hello to Caroline Hello, make
her feel welcome in her warm you home of stuffman
(20:11):
never told you, Or you can tweet her at mom
Stuff Podcasts. And then finally we're gonna be blogging It's
stuff Mom Never told you at how stuff works dot com.
Be sure to check out our new video podcast Stuff
from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we
(20:31):
explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The
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