March 29, 2016 • 26 mins
Shifting from corporate America to the New York Fire Department proved to be a major culture shock for Regina Wilson. Upon joining the force in 1999, she became the 12th African-American woman in the FDNY's history and now is the first female president of the Vulcan Society, the African-American fraternal organization founded in 1940 to combat racial discrimination among firefighters. In the final ChangeMAKERS installment, Cristen and Caroline learn about Wilson's battle against sexism and hostility -- one she wages in order to do the job she loves and bring other women and people of color along behind her.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mob Never Told You from how stupp
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. Today, as Women's History Month is
winding down, we're presenting the final episode of our change
(00:24):
Makers series where we have talked to an incredible group
of inspirational women and we really hope that the series
has given you as much inspiration to go out there
and make a change in your world as it has
for us. And so today's theme for the final episode
is no dream is off limits. And Regina Wilson, who
(00:47):
we're talking to, is a living and life saving example
of this. Yeah, Regina Wilson is absolutely both personally and
professionally inspiring. So she is one of just forty four
women total out of more than ten thousand firefighters and
officers in New York, and she's one of just ten
(01:08):
African American women on the total fource plus, Wilson is
just the second woman to be assigned to her station,
and she also recently became the first female president of
the Vulcan Society, which is a fraternal order for African
American firefighters. So she is just making history left and right,
(01:31):
and Caroline. It's not terribly surprising that she is one
of very few people fighting fires who looks like her,
considering how across the United States, women make up just
three point four percent of firefighters. So whichever way you
look at it, I mean, this is an unconventional job
(01:53):
for a woman to choose, and in fact, Regina Wilson
never expected to become one. Before I became a firefighter,
I was working for UM. The company is called National
Grid now, but when I was working there, they were
called Brooklyn Union Gas and I was working in the
Treasury department in brooklynning Gas. It was not an easy transition,
(02:17):
especially from the perspectives of coming from corporate America and
UM not being a part of a job that was
so physical. So it took a while for me to
understand really the nature of the job and to also
just submit to the fact that my career path was changing.
But UM, I was recruited at the it was called
(02:39):
the Black Expo at the Jacob Javitt Center, and the
Fire department had a recruitment table out and UM some
of the recruiters were speaking to me about how there
were very few African Americans and females on the job,
and so I didn't understand why that was because firefighters
(02:59):
are always held in high regard and uh, it seemed
to be an honorable and admirable job, and I didn't
understand why African Americans and women didn't really take a
look at this career path. So it just intrigued me.
I wasn't quite sold on it, but it intrigued me.
But it wasn't until like developed mentors some females and
(03:23):
male firefighters, that I decided to go ahead and go
through the process. But getting to that point was not automatic.
It wasn't a given for Wilson or for many other
women on the force. Yeah, I mean, there's a good
chance that if you are a female firefighter, as soon
as you walk into the station, you're probably gonna face
some type of discrimination unfortunately. And this is something that
(03:46):
we talked about in our stuff I've Never Told You
podcasts a little while back on female firefighters, And in
that conversation we highlighted a study published in the International
Journal of Diversity which found that when women are hired
by a fire department, say that they were treated differently,
(04:09):
and in addition to maybe being treated in your interactions
with your coworkers differently because of your gender. They are
also just issues related to so few women being on
the force, so you have ill fitting equipment and sometimes
even UH stations that don't have bathroom facilities for women
(04:32):
to use and clean up privately. And in comparison, though,
just twelve percent of men report experiencing any kind of
discrimination on the force, so clearly there there are some
unsavory dynamics at work, and that's something that Regina Wilson
has absolutely had to deal with, I mean, and that's
(04:53):
part of the story she tells today too. Well, some
of the Negatives Act really started pretty early, and um,
not even so many it was negatives from people, but
it was also a negative view from my surroundings because
when I went to go and take the written nicknam,
(05:14):
I was the only woman sitting in the room, and
it was you know, the auditorium before even went into
the individual rooms to take the test were filled with
white men. Um, you can count the amount of black
people that were there and and really count the amount
of women. So it was an intimidating atmosphere and um,
(05:34):
it was it was very few people that looked like
me there, So you know, I really had to make
the decision in my mind not to leave and to
take advantage of the opportunity. But just during the whole process,
you know, people already with their own um uh stereotypes
of what a firefighter is or what they look like,
(05:55):
you know, already condemned me for being a woman and
wanted to take this possess profession because they thought that
I wasn't strong enough, or I couldn't do it, or
I wasn't with that ideal person looks like. So you hear,
you know, you hear from firefighters, and you hear from
the public when they tell you, oh, you can never
save me, you can never pull me out. Um you know,
(06:17):
women can't do this job. But I knew that. I
went through the training, I went through the thirteen weeks,
and I walked across the stage and I shoot the
Commissioner's hand and he and the Fire Department of New
York certified me to be a firefighter. So I wasn't
gonna let anyone else tell me that I couldn't do
(06:37):
my job. So I didn't let anyone with their negativity
or the fact that maybe they couldn't do the job
get in the way of me fulfilling a dream, and
in talks that she's given, Wilson really frames this as
a bunch of negatives and negativities. But what's so fabulous
about her and what I think I personally and a
lot of us could stand to learn from her, is
(06:59):
that she's so at meant that she uses the negativities
around her to build her up rather than letting them
break her down. And so she talks about the harassment
and discouragement that she faced from her drill instructors, and
she said that the negativities from those guys built her
up because quote, I had to let the world know
(07:19):
that African American females can do anything. And so we
asked her to explain a little bit more about proving
herself and building on the negativities rather than being broken
down by them. Well, it really started out with uh,
I feel when I first went into the training academy
(07:40):
as uh as I can't fail type of attitude when
I went in because when I first went in, I
was the only African American female to be high and
since the original women came in in the early eighties,
so it had been a fifteen year span before the
last African American woman was higher. So I went in
(08:02):
knowing this, and I went in knowing that I couldn't fail,
even though I was in my bathroom crying, UM, I didn't,
I couldn't, Um, I didn't. I sometimes contemplated, uh, you know,
walking out and not fulfilling it. But I think, you know,
the negative, the negative talk um, and the my righteous
(08:26):
indignation of knowing that I should be here and I
belong here is what kept me here. So I was
the only African American female in my class, and my
class was over three hundred people and there were only
seven African Americans in the class. So it was very
it was not hard, you know, easy for me to hide.
(08:48):
I very much stuck out local foot dumb, and they
at times made sure that uh that I knew and
was reminded that I wasn't wanted there because it was
a few people there that that that UM singled me
out and um and tried to break my spirit. But
I wouldn't let them because I knew that passiveness was
(09:10):
bigger than me. So Wilson joined the New York Fire
Department in again. She was just the twelfth African American
woman to make that cut, and just a few years later,
a pivotal moment in her career came with nine eleven.
She was actually one of the first responders, but it
(09:31):
wasn't necessarily supposed to be that way, because she actually
traded roles with one of her co workers that day
and and he ended up being one of the seven
members of her station who died on that day. And
on top of the lasting understandable impact that the experience
(09:54):
of being a first responder at the Twin Towers had
on her, she's also been very much visibly campaigning for
women's roles in nine eleven to be recognized as well,
because it's it's taken a long time. I mean, even
back at the tenth anniversary of it in two thousand eleven,
(10:15):
there were finally articles highlighting the roles of female firefighters
like Regina Wilson, or police officers, UM, female members of
the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Agency E M T. S
clergy and journalists who were all there on that day.
And personally for Wilson, I mean, it really crystallized the
(10:39):
reason why she was doing what she was doing well
being a non eleven responder. Uh, I think it helped
me to understand about life lessons, especially when dealing with
time and dealing with life and understanding really how precious
it is and how quickly it could be taken away
(10:59):
from you, and learning how to value moments, and learning
that you have to do whatever you want to do
in life right now because you may not have that opportunity.
Or you want to take life as it is and
build on it, make yourself a better person, try things
that you've never thought to try before, like allow yourself
(11:20):
to dream and make mistakes and get back up and
and and then reach it, you know, because if you
don't take care of it now, life is gonna just
keep on moving, or it will be taken away from
you and you will not be able to fulfill the
desires of your heart. And it's important that you do
because we only have one opportunity, we only have one
go around it this life, and we need to seize
(11:42):
the moment. But now, if we pull back from September eleventh,
two thousand one, which was such a pivotal moment for Wilson,
and we look at the relatively short history of professional
female firefighters, we see how, just like Wilson, they've had
to fight for their jobs, even get an opportunity to
(12:05):
put out fires and save people's lives and transform communities
in the process. In the nineteen seventies was really the
blazing or trailblazing, I should say decade for female firefighters.
For instance, in nineteen seventy four, a woman named Judy
Brewer became the first paid career female firefighter in Arlington County, Virginia,
(12:28):
and she told NPR not too long ago that when
she applied to just volunteer at the fire station, quote,
I was told essentially to go back to my kitchen.
It was no place for a woman. So that was
the kind of environment that Tony McIntosh in nineteen seventy
six was stepping into in Pittsburgh when she became the
(12:50):
first African American career female firefighter. And then just a
couple of years later, in nineteen seventies seven, then law
student Brenda Berkman, who is a fellow maker by the way,
over at uh makers dot com. She sees that the
New York Fire Department is accepting applicants and they're under
a ton of pressure from the courts to diversify, and
(13:12):
so in an effort to diversify, they are heavily recruiting
black men, not women, not white women, not black women,
just black men. And so in nineteen seventy eight, Berkman
brings a gender discrimination lawsuit against the New York Fire
Department under the nineteen sixty four Civil Rights Act after
all the women who were attempting to get on the
(13:32):
force failed the physical portion of its firefighting test, and
the test, by the way, had been retooled and based
off of the incumbent male firefighters abilities. And finally, in
nineteen eighty two, a judge ends up ruling in favor
of the female plaintiffs in Berkman's case, but not after
(13:54):
a massive press controversy and demonstrations, some of which were
led by the fire fighter unions who had no interest
in women joining the force um But then in November
of that year, eleven women, including Brenda Berkman, graduated from
the firefighting Academy, and Brenda Berkman went on to serve
(14:14):
twenty six years and become captain after enduring all sorts
of harassment. And Berkman is one of the people that
Regina Wilson sites as a role model. I mean, she
recognizes that if it weren't for her and others, you know,
paving the way that she wouldn't be where she is today. Well,
some of my role models and firefighting will definitely uh
(14:37):
the original women that came on the job of like
the Brenda Berkman's that Ellen McNair's uh, Cecilia Cox uh um,
Patrina Cannon Uh. All of those women, um Harriet, those
little women that were the backbone for me um uh
and and they wanted to make sure that uh they
(14:59):
instilled me. All of the things that they had to
go through are still on their shoulders. They had to
deal with being sexually harassed and abused, uh, dealing with
um fighting other guys and getting stabbed in the hand,
getting threatened to be thrown off the roof, our wives,
picketing in front of their firehouses, and the mayor in
(15:20):
your own union against you saying that were that women
were going to kill New Yorkers. So they went through
a whole lot more than I did. And I definitely
stand on the shoulders of greatness for them, and I
think it has always been my goal right now is
to never allow those images or the things that they
(15:42):
suffered to to to go in vain without allowing myself
to make a difference and to allow especially more women
to have these opportunities that they some of them really
gave their life for. So despite the work that women
like Brenda Berkman did, despite the harassment that they had
(16:05):
to face, despite the assumptions that they had to fight
about women's abilities and strength to be able to save lives,
Wilson herself is still fighting an uphill battle about those assumptions.
It seems like people can't really wrap their head around
someone looking different than what a firefighter is quote supposed
(16:25):
to look like. Yeah, which is ironic considering how if
you see a team of firefighters putting out a fire,
considering all the equipment and all of the smoke, all
of the things happening, it would probably be pretty hard
to pick out which ones are men and which ones
are women. As as Wilson talks about as a perk
(16:47):
of the job. She says that aspect actually helps with
the gender discrimination. To me, uh, it's two things. One,
I feel like it's said. I think it's said that
especially women in who we put limitations on other women,
and we tell other women what they can and cannot
(17:07):
be because they themselves are afraid to do it, or
they've been so brainwashed with with having limitations on their
own lives that they instill them on other people who
are knocking down doors and breaking down barriers. So when
other women come to me and say that you shouldn't
do this, or you should look like that, or this
(17:28):
isn't what you're supposed to do, I find that more
hurtful than anyone else. But secondly, um, I've been in
the fire department for seventeen years and I've grown not
to care, so I don't really Um, I'm at the
stage in my life but I really don't care what
people think. I know that the goal and the and
the purposes that I'm supposed to serve, and that's what
(17:50):
I do. So I live for how I feel and
what's comfortable for me, and that I'm here and I'm
blessed and I'm allowed to be free. So I can
do what I want to do whenever I want to
do it, and I can look how I want to look,
anyway I want to look. But when you decide to
allow other people and their hang ups and their misconceptions
or the fact that they're they don't think that they're beautiful,
(18:11):
they're not beautiful, so they put that on you don't
allow anybody in their own hang ups now become your problem.
You know, you've got to be strong enough to know
who you are and feel comfortable in it and move forward.
So it should be pretty apparent at this point that
Regina Wilson doesn't take any gulf off of anyone. This
woman is determined to do whatever she puts her mind to.
(18:33):
And you know, Kristen and I do get the question
a lot from Smintyr listeners about how can I speak
up for myself or how can I stand up for
myself when I'm the only girl in the room or
the only person in the room who looks like me,
And so we obviously wanted to get Wilson's advice for
girls and women who feel that way. Yeah, I think
(18:56):
it's it's gonna come a point in time where you
know you're gonna have to take a stand. You're gonna
have to put like your line in the sand, and
you either don't let anyone else cross it, or you
stop people from either treating you bad or or silencing
you or not allowing you to speak your mind. Because
(19:17):
when you when you decide to take all the intelligence
and the beauty and the beautiful thinking, and you allow
it to stay to yourself. No one can't truly know
who you are. You have to be able to express
yourself and you shouldn't allow anybody to tell you that
you shouldn't. No one should tell you to shut up,
no one should silence you, and no one would know
(19:39):
the true personal essence of who you are until who
you all comes out of your mouth. You have to
be expressive, you have to be creative. Um, all of
those all of these women that have done amazing and
phenomenal things, have they been fearful? Yes, But the difference
between someone who does not step out on and someone
(20:00):
who does the one that does our trailblazers and creating
history and changing the world. So if you want to
be someone who changes the world and make a stance,
and you want the world to know who you are
and you want to make this world a better place,
you're gonna have to speak up. And we have a
hunch that some of Regina Wilson's wisdom that she's passing
(20:25):
along and that passion that she has traces back to
the women in her life. In her Maker's video interview,
she talks about how influential her aunt and particularly her
grandmother were in raising her and how she worked so
hard because she always wanted to make her grandmother proud,
(20:46):
and these women were also role models for her outside
of the Brenda Berkman's you know, she had these strong
women in her family who set positive examples for them
as well. While I would have to say my role
models UM have have been UM, my grandmother, my aunt,
and and I have some friends whose mothers became my
(21:10):
mother's and I think UM during those times, they have
always tried to instill in me that UM, I can
do whatever I want to do. But it's hard for
a kid to hear that because it becomes so cliche,
like you can be you can grab grab the moon
and and shoot for the stars. But until you really
(21:31):
believe it, and until you really uh sit down within
yourself and know that what they're telling you comes from
people that love you and want the best for you,
that then you'll have to step on safe and know
that their strength is what's gonna probably push push you through.
So those are the people that I hold on to
(21:51):
that want me to succeed, that want want the best
for me, and I try and leave all the negative
people behind. So I would have to say, my my
aunt did at and my grandmother, you know, my mom
was um was was a young mother and and didn't
have a lot of direction and didn't really know how
to raise children. So UM, I was glad that um,
(22:14):
God put my grandmother and my aunt in my life
to raise me. So in a in a role where
she is one of so few women, one of so
few African Americans, and she is working around the clock
to save people's lives. We wanted to know what kind
of self care, if any Wilson practices in order to
(22:34):
let off a little steam, maybe recuperate from those long
physical days that can take a really heavy emotional toll. Well,
I think for every woman it's a little different. Um
My life is crazy, so um with just being a firefighter,
being an advocate for women and for people of color,
(22:56):
and being the presidents of the Vocal Society. Um my, my,
uh my time and minutes are are filled up with
just trying to advocate for those who have a hard
time speaking up or have been pushed around by the system.
So um, but I try and find um some me times.
So I love to travel a lot. Um I like
(23:18):
to go out of the country. I like to go
on cruises. I've probably been on twenty seven already. And
um I love to give my manicures and pedicures and massages.
So whenever I'm I'm able to uh uh partake in
some of those things, UM, I try to in some way.
Is still some balance, because you have to have balance.
(23:45):
So thank you so much to Regina Wilson for talking
to as Caroline. She was so inspirational and encouraging to
talk to, Like do I want to go and fight fires? No, Hey,
I'm scared of heights and I could never climb up
on one of those ladders. But I love the perspective
(24:06):
that she has of of just saying, well, why not me?
Why you know they're oh, they're only forty four women
in this entire force out of ten thousand. Okay, why
not me? I can do it? Yeah. I love from
her Maker's video on the Maker's website, when she's answering
(24:27):
this hypothetical concern about oh, women can't do this work,
you can't save my life, she says, just just let
me pull you out, save your life, and then you
can determine whether I did the best job once you're alive,
because I came into the building to save your life.
I love the confidence and the the well, the deep
(24:50):
well of internal strength that Regina Wilson has. Yeah, physical strength,
internal strength, strength all around. And that's one of the
reasons why she talks about no dream is off limits
and hearing that. Sometimes hearing those kinds of aphorisms, if
you're going through a rough spot or if you feel
(25:10):
really powerless, can seem like such an empty promise. But
Regina and other people like her, the Brenda Berkman's of
the world, I mean, they're living proof that it is
true no dream is off limits. So if you want
to learn more about Regina Wilson Um, she encourages you
(25:32):
to go check out the Vulcan Society's website, which again
she is the first female president of And you can
go to Vulcan Society f D and y dot org
and to hear more of her story and how she
became the woman she is today. You can watch her
video over at makers dot com. And now we're curious
(25:56):
to hear from you. Are there any firefighters in the
audience or any one who can really relate to that
experience of being the only person in the room who
looks like you and how did you manage that? Mom
se at how stuff Works dot com is our email address.
You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or
message us on Facebook and if you'd like to get
(26:17):
to know Caroline and me more, we have all sorts
of videos, blog posts, and hundreds of podcasts over at
our website stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for
more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it
how stuff works dot com
Welcome to Stuff Mob Never Told You from how stupp
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. Today, as Women's History Month is
winding down, we're presenting the final episode of our change
(00:24):
Makers series where we have talked to an incredible group
of inspirational women and we really hope that the series
has given you as much inspiration to go out there
and make a change in your world as it has
for us. And so today's theme for the final episode
is no dream is off limits. And Regina Wilson, who
(00:47):
we're talking to, is a living and life saving example
of this. Yeah, Regina Wilson is absolutely both personally and
professionally inspiring. So she is one of just forty four
women total out of more than ten thousand firefighters and
officers in New York, and she's one of just ten
(01:08):
African American women on the total fource plus, Wilson is
just the second woman to be assigned to her station,
and she also recently became the first female president of
the Vulcan Society, which is a fraternal order for African
American firefighters. So she is just making history left and right,
(01:31):
and Caroline. It's not terribly surprising that she is one
of very few people fighting fires who looks like her,
considering how across the United States, women make up just
three point four percent of firefighters. So whichever way you
look at it, I mean, this is an unconventional job
(01:53):
for a woman to choose, and in fact, Regina Wilson
never expected to become one. Before I became a firefighter,
I was working for UM. The company is called National
Grid now, but when I was working there, they were
called Brooklyn Union Gas and I was working in the
Treasury department in brooklynning Gas. It was not an easy transition,
(02:17):
especially from the perspectives of coming from corporate America and
UM not being a part of a job that was
so physical. So it took a while for me to
understand really the nature of the job and to also
just submit to the fact that my career path was changing.
But UM, I was recruited at the it was called
(02:39):
the Black Expo at the Jacob Javitt Center, and the
Fire department had a recruitment table out and UM some
of the recruiters were speaking to me about how there
were very few African Americans and females on the job,
and so I didn't understand why that was because firefighters
(02:59):
are always held in high regard and uh, it seemed
to be an honorable and admirable job, and I didn't
understand why African Americans and women didn't really take a
look at this career path. So it just intrigued me.
I wasn't quite sold on it, but it intrigued me.
But it wasn't until like developed mentors some females and
(03:23):
male firefighters, that I decided to go ahead and go
through the process. But getting to that point was not automatic.
It wasn't a given for Wilson or for many other
women on the force. Yeah, I mean, there's a good
chance that if you are a female firefighter, as soon
as you walk into the station, you're probably gonna face
some type of discrimination unfortunately. And this is something that
(03:46):
we talked about in our stuff I've Never Told You
podcasts a little while back on female firefighters, And in
that conversation we highlighted a study published in the International
Journal of Diversity which found that when women are hired
by a fire department, say that they were treated differently,
(04:09):
and in addition to maybe being treated in your interactions
with your coworkers differently because of your gender. They are
also just issues related to so few women being on
the force, so you have ill fitting equipment and sometimes
even UH stations that don't have bathroom facilities for women
(04:32):
to use and clean up privately. And in comparison, though,
just twelve percent of men report experiencing any kind of
discrimination on the force, so clearly there there are some
unsavory dynamics at work, and that's something that Regina Wilson
has absolutely had to deal with, I mean, and that's
(04:53):
part of the story she tells today too. Well, some
of the Negatives Act really started pretty early, and um,
not even so many it was negatives from people, but
it was also a negative view from my surroundings because
when I went to go and take the written nicknam,
(05:14):
I was the only woman sitting in the room, and
it was you know, the auditorium before even went into
the individual rooms to take the test were filled with
white men. Um, you can count the amount of black
people that were there and and really count the amount
of women. So it was an intimidating atmosphere and um,
(05:34):
it was it was very few people that looked like
me there, So you know, I really had to make
the decision in my mind not to leave and to
take advantage of the opportunity. But just during the whole process,
you know, people already with their own um uh stereotypes
of what a firefighter is or what they look like,
(05:55):
you know, already condemned me for being a woman and
wanted to take this possess profession because they thought that
I wasn't strong enough, or I couldn't do it, or
I wasn't with that ideal person looks like. So you hear,
you know, you hear from firefighters, and you hear from
the public when they tell you, oh, you can never
save me, you can never pull me out. Um you know,
(06:17):
women can't do this job. But I knew that. I
went through the training, I went through the thirteen weeks,
and I walked across the stage and I shoot the
Commissioner's hand and he and the Fire Department of New
York certified me to be a firefighter. So I wasn't
gonna let anyone else tell me that I couldn't do
(06:37):
my job. So I didn't let anyone with their negativity
or the fact that maybe they couldn't do the job
get in the way of me fulfilling a dream, and
in talks that she's given, Wilson really frames this as
a bunch of negatives and negativities. But what's so fabulous
about her and what I think I personally and a
lot of us could stand to learn from her, is
(06:59):
that she's so at meant that she uses the negativities
around her to build her up rather than letting them
break her down. And so she talks about the harassment
and discouragement that she faced from her drill instructors, and
she said that the negativities from those guys built her
up because quote, I had to let the world know
(07:19):
that African American females can do anything. And so we
asked her to explain a little bit more about proving
herself and building on the negativities rather than being broken
down by them. Well, it really started out with uh,
I feel when I first went into the training academy
(07:40):
as uh as I can't fail type of attitude when
I went in because when I first went in, I
was the only African American female to be high and
since the original women came in in the early eighties,
so it had been a fifteen year span before the
last African American woman was higher. So I went in
(08:02):
knowing this, and I went in knowing that I couldn't fail,
even though I was in my bathroom crying, UM, I didn't,
I couldn't, Um, I didn't. I sometimes contemplated, uh, you know,
walking out and not fulfilling it. But I think, you know,
the negative, the negative talk um, and the my righteous
(08:26):
indignation of knowing that I should be here and I
belong here is what kept me here. So I was
the only African American female in my class, and my
class was over three hundred people and there were only
seven African Americans in the class. So it was very
it was not hard, you know, easy for me to hide.
(08:48):
I very much stuck out local foot dumb, and they
at times made sure that uh that I knew and
was reminded that I wasn't wanted there because it was
a few people there that that that UM singled me
out and um and tried to break my spirit. But
I wouldn't let them because I knew that passiveness was
(09:10):
bigger than me. So Wilson joined the New York Fire
Department in again. She was just the twelfth African American
woman to make that cut, and just a few years later,
a pivotal moment in her career came with nine eleven.
She was actually one of the first responders, but it
(09:31):
wasn't necessarily supposed to be that way, because she actually
traded roles with one of her co workers that day
and and he ended up being one of the seven
members of her station who died on that day. And
on top of the lasting understandable impact that the experience
(09:54):
of being a first responder at the Twin Towers had
on her, she's also been very much visibly campaigning for
women's roles in nine eleven to be recognized as well,
because it's it's taken a long time. I mean, even
back at the tenth anniversary of it in two thousand eleven,
(10:15):
there were finally articles highlighting the roles of female firefighters
like Regina Wilson, or police officers, UM, female members of
the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Agency E M T. S
clergy and journalists who were all there on that day.
And personally for Wilson, I mean, it really crystallized the
(10:39):
reason why she was doing what she was doing well
being a non eleven responder. Uh, I think it helped
me to understand about life lessons, especially when dealing with
time and dealing with life and understanding really how precious
it is and how quickly it could be taken away
(10:59):
from you, and learning how to value moments, and learning
that you have to do whatever you want to do
in life right now because you may not have that opportunity.
Or you want to take life as it is and
build on it, make yourself a better person, try things
that you've never thought to try before, like allow yourself
(11:20):
to dream and make mistakes and get back up and
and and then reach it, you know, because if you
don't take care of it now, life is gonna just
keep on moving, or it will be taken away from
you and you will not be able to fulfill the
desires of your heart. And it's important that you do
because we only have one opportunity, we only have one
go around it this life, and we need to seize
(11:42):
the moment. But now, if we pull back from September eleventh,
two thousand one, which was such a pivotal moment for Wilson,
and we look at the relatively short history of professional
female firefighters, we see how, just like Wilson, they've had
to fight for their jobs, even get an opportunity to
(12:05):
put out fires and save people's lives and transform communities
in the process. In the nineteen seventies was really the
blazing or trailblazing, I should say decade for female firefighters.
For instance, in nineteen seventy four, a woman named Judy
Brewer became the first paid career female firefighter in Arlington County, Virginia,
(12:28):
and she told NPR not too long ago that when
she applied to just volunteer at the fire station, quote,
I was told essentially to go back to my kitchen.
It was no place for a woman. So that was
the kind of environment that Tony McIntosh in nineteen seventy
six was stepping into in Pittsburgh when she became the
(12:50):
first African American career female firefighter. And then just a
couple of years later, in nineteen seventies seven, then law
student Brenda Berkman, who is a fellow maker by the way,
over at uh makers dot com. She sees that the
New York Fire Department is accepting applicants and they're under
a ton of pressure from the courts to diversify, and
(13:12):
so in an effort to diversify, they are heavily recruiting
black men, not women, not white women, not black women,
just black men. And so in nineteen seventy eight, Berkman
brings a gender discrimination lawsuit against the New York Fire
Department under the nineteen sixty four Civil Rights Act after
all the women who were attempting to get on the
(13:32):
force failed the physical portion of its firefighting test, and
the test, by the way, had been retooled and based
off of the incumbent male firefighters abilities. And finally, in
nineteen eighty two, a judge ends up ruling in favor
of the female plaintiffs in Berkman's case, but not after
(13:54):
a massive press controversy and demonstrations, some of which were
led by the fire fighter unions who had no interest
in women joining the force um But then in November
of that year, eleven women, including Brenda Berkman, graduated from
the firefighting Academy, and Brenda Berkman went on to serve
(14:14):
twenty six years and become captain after enduring all sorts
of harassment. And Berkman is one of the people that
Regina Wilson sites as a role model. I mean, she
recognizes that if it weren't for her and others, you know,
paving the way that she wouldn't be where she is today. Well,
some of my role models and firefighting will definitely uh
(14:37):
the original women that came on the job of like
the Brenda Berkman's that Ellen McNair's uh, Cecilia Cox uh um,
Patrina Cannon Uh. All of those women, um Harriet, those
little women that were the backbone for me um uh
and and they wanted to make sure that uh they
(14:59):
instilled me. All of the things that they had to
go through are still on their shoulders. They had to
deal with being sexually harassed and abused, uh, dealing with
um fighting other guys and getting stabbed in the hand,
getting threatened to be thrown off the roof, our wives,
picketing in front of their firehouses, and the mayor in
(15:20):
your own union against you saying that were that women
were going to kill New Yorkers. So they went through
a whole lot more than I did. And I definitely
stand on the shoulders of greatness for them, and I
think it has always been my goal right now is
to never allow those images or the things that they
(15:42):
suffered to to to go in vain without allowing myself
to make a difference and to allow especially more women
to have these opportunities that they some of them really
gave their life for. So despite the work that women
like Brenda Berkman did, despite the harassment that they had
(16:05):
to face, despite the assumptions that they had to fight
about women's abilities and strength to be able to save lives,
Wilson herself is still fighting an uphill battle about those assumptions.
It seems like people can't really wrap their head around
someone looking different than what a firefighter is quote supposed
(16:25):
to look like. Yeah, which is ironic considering how if
you see a team of firefighters putting out a fire,
considering all the equipment and all of the smoke, all
of the things happening, it would probably be pretty hard
to pick out which ones are men and which ones
are women. As as Wilson talks about as a perk
(16:47):
of the job. She says that aspect actually helps with
the gender discrimination. To me, uh, it's two things. One,
I feel like it's said. I think it's said that
especially women in who we put limitations on other women,
and we tell other women what they can and cannot
(17:07):
be because they themselves are afraid to do it, or
they've been so brainwashed with with having limitations on their
own lives that they instill them on other people who
are knocking down doors and breaking down barriers. So when
other women come to me and say that you shouldn't
do this, or you should look like that, or this
(17:28):
isn't what you're supposed to do, I find that more
hurtful than anyone else. But secondly, um, I've been in
the fire department for seventeen years and I've grown not
to care, so I don't really Um, I'm at the
stage in my life but I really don't care what
people think. I know that the goal and the and
the purposes that I'm supposed to serve, and that's what
(17:50):
I do. So I live for how I feel and
what's comfortable for me, and that I'm here and I'm
blessed and I'm allowed to be free. So I can
do what I want to do whenever I want to
do it, and I can look how I want to look,
anyway I want to look. But when you decide to
allow other people and their hang ups and their misconceptions
or the fact that they're they don't think that they're beautiful,
(18:11):
they're not beautiful, so they put that on you don't
allow anybody in their own hang ups now become your problem.
You know, you've got to be strong enough to know
who you are and feel comfortable in it and move forward.
So it should be pretty apparent at this point that
Regina Wilson doesn't take any gulf off of anyone. This
woman is determined to do whatever she puts her mind to.
(18:33):
And you know, Kristen and I do get the question
a lot from Smintyr listeners about how can I speak
up for myself or how can I stand up for
myself when I'm the only girl in the room or
the only person in the room who looks like me,
And so we obviously wanted to get Wilson's advice for
girls and women who feel that way. Yeah, I think
(18:56):
it's it's gonna come a point in time where you
know you're gonna have to take a stand. You're gonna
have to put like your line in the sand, and
you either don't let anyone else cross it, or you
stop people from either treating you bad or or silencing
you or not allowing you to speak your mind. Because
(19:17):
when you when you decide to take all the intelligence
and the beauty and the beautiful thinking, and you allow
it to stay to yourself. No one can't truly know
who you are. You have to be able to express
yourself and you shouldn't allow anybody to tell you that
you shouldn't. No one should tell you to shut up,
no one should silence you, and no one would know
(19:39):
the true personal essence of who you are until who
you all comes out of your mouth. You have to
be expressive, you have to be creative. Um, all of
those all of these women that have done amazing and
phenomenal things, have they been fearful? Yes, But the difference
between someone who does not step out on and someone
(20:00):
who does the one that does our trailblazers and creating
history and changing the world. So if you want to
be someone who changes the world and make a stance,
and you want the world to know who you are
and you want to make this world a better place,
you're gonna have to speak up. And we have a
hunch that some of Regina Wilson's wisdom that she's passing
(20:25):
along and that passion that she has traces back to
the women in her life. In her Maker's video interview,
she talks about how influential her aunt and particularly her
grandmother were in raising her and how she worked so
hard because she always wanted to make her grandmother proud,
(20:46):
and these women were also role models for her outside
of the Brenda Berkman's you know, she had these strong
women in her family who set positive examples for them
as well. While I would have to say my role
models UM have have been UM, my grandmother, my aunt,
and and I have some friends whose mothers became my
(21:10):
mother's and I think UM during those times, they have
always tried to instill in me that UM, I can
do whatever I want to do. But it's hard for
a kid to hear that because it becomes so cliche,
like you can be you can grab grab the moon
and and shoot for the stars. But until you really
(21:31):
believe it, and until you really uh sit down within
yourself and know that what they're telling you comes from
people that love you and want the best for you,
that then you'll have to step on safe and know
that their strength is what's gonna probably push push you through.
So those are the people that I hold on to
(21:51):
that want me to succeed, that want want the best
for me, and I try and leave all the negative
people behind. So I would have to say, my my
aunt did at and my grandmother, you know, my mom
was um was was a young mother and and didn't
have a lot of direction and didn't really know how
to raise children. So UM, I was glad that um,
(22:14):
God put my grandmother and my aunt in my life
to raise me. So in a in a role where
she is one of so few women, one of so
few African Americans, and she is working around the clock
to save people's lives. We wanted to know what kind
of self care, if any Wilson practices in order to
(22:34):
let off a little steam, maybe recuperate from those long
physical days that can take a really heavy emotional toll. Well,
I think for every woman it's a little different. Um
My life is crazy, so um with just being a firefighter,
being an advocate for women and for people of color,
(22:56):
and being the presidents of the Vocal Society. Um my, my,
uh my time and minutes are are filled up with
just trying to advocate for those who have a hard
time speaking up or have been pushed around by the system.
So um, but I try and find um some me times.
So I love to travel a lot. Um I like
(23:18):
to go out of the country. I like to go
on cruises. I've probably been on twenty seven already. And
um I love to give my manicures and pedicures and massages.
So whenever I'm I'm able to uh uh partake in
some of those things, UM, I try to in some way.
Is still some balance, because you have to have balance.
(23:45):
So thank you so much to Regina Wilson for talking
to as Caroline. She was so inspirational and encouraging to
talk to, Like do I want to go and fight fires? No, Hey,
I'm scared of heights and I could never climb up
on one of those ladders. But I love the perspective
(24:06):
that she has of of just saying, well, why not me?
Why you know they're oh, they're only forty four women
in this entire force out of ten thousand. Okay, why
not me? I can do it? Yeah. I love from
her Maker's video on the Maker's website, when she's answering
(24:27):
this hypothetical concern about oh, women can't do this work,
you can't save my life, she says, just just let
me pull you out, save your life, and then you
can determine whether I did the best job once you're alive,
because I came into the building to save your life.
I love the confidence and the the well, the deep
(24:50):
well of internal strength that Regina Wilson has. Yeah, physical strength,
internal strength, strength all around. And that's one of the
reasons why she talks about no dream is off limits
and hearing that. Sometimes hearing those kinds of aphorisms, if
you're going through a rough spot or if you feel
(25:10):
really powerless, can seem like such an empty promise. But
Regina and other people like her, the Brenda Berkman's of
the world, I mean, they're living proof that it is
true no dream is off limits. So if you want
to learn more about Regina Wilson Um, she encourages you
(25:32):
to go check out the Vulcan Society's website, which again
she is the first female president of And you can
go to Vulcan Society f D and y dot org
and to hear more of her story and how she
became the woman she is today. You can watch her
video over at makers dot com. And now we're curious
(25:56):
to hear from you. Are there any firefighters in the
audience or any one who can really relate to that
experience of being the only person in the room who
looks like you and how did you manage that? Mom
se at how stuff Works dot com is our email address.
You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or
message us on Facebook and if you'd like to get
(26:17):
to know Caroline and me more, we have all sorts
of videos, blog posts, and hundreds of podcasts over at
our website stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for
more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it
how stuff works dot com
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