March 18, 2016 • 21 mins
Dyllan McGee is one of the world's most important storytellers. Founder of the MAKERS online docuseries, McGee and creative director Sammi Leibovitz capture the often untold biographies of female trailblazers from all walks of life. In the third ChangeMAKERS installment, Cristen and Caroline hear from Dyllan and Sammi about following your passion, why no change it too small and how sharing MAKERS' stories shapes girls' futures.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from House top
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline, and we are halfway through March,
which means we're halfway through Women's History Month, which also
means carolinea for the purposes of this podcast, we're halfway
(00:26):
through change Makers. That's right. This has been an incredible
series that I've personally been enjoying and I think a
lot of our listeners have been enjoying too. We've talked
a lot about motivation and changing the world, and today
will be no different. Yeah. So this whole change Maker
series that we've been airing as bonus episodes every Friday
(00:47):
in March all relates back to the women that we're
talking to today. Because, as we've talked about in previous
intros to our change Maker's episodes, the first one with
domestic worker organizer i gam Poo and then with soccer
superstar Abby Wambach, we've talked about how this whole thing
(01:11):
was inspired by going to a women's empowerment conference hosted
by Makers, which is an a o L platform and
is the largest video archive of women's stories. And while
we've also noted that Gloria Sinum is kind of the
godmother and the central inspiration, but it was really this
(01:34):
filmmaker Dylan McGee who made the whole thing happen, right,
And so today we're talking with Dylan and also her
creative director partner Sammy Leevivitz about the importance of telling
women's stories, why this storytelling is critical really to our girls,
but to all of us at large. So for that reason,
today's theme is see It to Be It and I
(01:58):
love it because it's something that has resonated throughout so
many stuff Mo've Never told you episodes, particularly talking about
women in underrepresented fields like the stem fields, where visibility
matters so much, to be able to see people who
look like you doing incredible things, whether they are publicly
(02:20):
recognized or not. Yeah, we've so much of our research
has shown over the course of doing the podcast that
once you introduce the idea, whether it's being an artist
or an astronaut two girls, that helps them so much
to envision themselves in those roles or even bigger, better
(02:41):
roles that they might not have even thought about before,
like being an art astronaut. Right, an artist astronaut? Yes, Yes,
painting in space. That's my dream, even though it is
now because I've never thought of it before, and now
that you're telling me the story, I have to be it.
There you go. Well, I feel like Makers is really
(03:04):
providing a needed resource in terms of this visibility because
you know, as we've talked about many times, it's a
docuseries essentially, which is showcasing the trailblazing biographies of as
of this recording, like more than two hundred incredible women
from all sorts of backgrounds, doing all sorts of things.
(03:27):
Um And they've done series focused on women in comedy, Hollywood, Space,
Caroline Base, there you Go, astronauts, but also women in war, business, politics.
They've even expanded to uh Canada and to China. Um
and for a real big dose of Makers, there was
(03:49):
an entire six part series that aired on PBS, which
is fantastic if you haven't seen it. Yeah, and Makers,
this magical, wonderful, inspirational series is the brainchild of filmmaker
Dylan McGee. She's an Emmy Award winning executive producer at
Coon Heart McGee Productions, and her creative partner Samantha Lebovitz,
(04:10):
who runs Makers as the senior producer and creative director.
And I have to tell you, um, I kind of
want I know she's a busy lady, but like, I
kind of want Dylan around me all the time because
her enthusiasm and her passion are both so infectious. This
is a woman who just has this incredible vision and
(04:34):
and knack for telling women's stories. Yeah. And so we
sat down with Dylan and Sammy at the Maker's Conference
and the first thing we wanted to know was a
what they did, but more importantly why So let's hear
from Dylan McGee and Sammy Lee Bowitz. I'm Dylan Magee.
I'm the founder and executive producer of Makers, and I
(04:56):
have a mission to capture every woman's story because there's
a void and there aren't enough stories and we need
to fill it. I am Smith Leibovi. It's irun Makers
for a o L Vice President, credibjector and feedbacking on
Dylan's mission. I want to spread those stories to girls
in every single corner of the world. And telling these
stories sort of fits in with what Dylan said was
(05:19):
a moment for women. She says, maybe it's just my
own personal awaking, but there is something in the air
these days, a new focus on women's issues. There seems
to be a movement brewing, and I hope that Makers
plays an important role in it. And if we look
at the background of how Makers even happened though, it
(05:41):
I think corroborates what McGee is saying in terms of
something being in the air. So it started way back
when in two thousand five, the olden days Um when
McGhee wanted to make a documentary on Glorious Sinum, which
is a fantastic idea. Of course, of course you would
want to do that, and Glow said, no, yeah, she
(06:02):
wasn't interested. She told Dylan McGee to broaden her scope
and include more women's voices, more women who are out
there doing incredible things for the movement. And you know,
Mege said that she thought, well, it's surely this has
been done, Like I'm disappointed Gloria won't sit down and
do this big documentary with me um, Like surely other
(06:24):
people have done some sort of series on women's voices. No, no,
they hadn't. And one thing that she said in uh
an interview with her that is on Makers dot Com
was how private a lot of these stories are so
she said quote. As filmmakers, the thing we found most
(06:45):
surprising and intriguing about this story is that it's so
vast and also so private, because it includes not only
the story of feminism and the political change taking place
for women over the past fifty years, but also the
personal stories happening behind the scenes of women fighting for
equality in the workplace and at home. And I'll tell you, Caroline,
(07:06):
reading that quote, it reminds me of so many of
the stuff Mo've never told you letters that we get.
I mean, that's the whole other piece of this entire show,
not just this mini series, but this whole Sminty universe,
where you and I talk about a lot of these
front facing issues and the political changes that are still
(07:27):
happening for women, and then we hear from men and
women alike about how that personally affects them. And so often,
I mean, those stories are so private, we don't talk
about them very often. Yeah, And it's not only those
private stories things that are going on behind the scenes,
how these big either global national issues are affecting people's
(07:49):
lives on a small scale. But it's also that sort
of pulling back the curtain on how people got where
they are, you know, Kristen and I, we we try
to tell you how the heroines that we discuss in
our in our podcasts, how they got where they where
they're going, whether it's a mentor whether it's just pulling
(08:09):
themselves up by their bootstraps. And um, I think Dylan
and Sammy too are are trying to do that as well,
to showcase how these large issues are affecting people, but
also just how they did it, how they succeeded well.
And speaking of that, Caroline, we should back up for
a minute and talk about how McGee got to where
(08:31):
she is, because you know, she spends so much time
telling other people's stories in such beautiful and profound ways,
but she has such an important story that we can
learn from as well. Because initially she wanted to be
the next Katie Kuric. That Today Show was all the rage,
and she even landed an internship offer from them, but
(08:53):
I think it was a producer at the Today Show
suggested that she go to a smaller documentary firm so
that she could get more experience, which is how she
ended up at Coon Heart And she told Teen Vogue,
I don't remember who this woman was, but she completely
shaped my career. I went in turned and fell in
love with documentary filmmaking, and I became an accidental filmmaker
(09:17):
for me. I started my career as an intern with
a filmmaker named Peter Coonhart and I'm I mean one
of the things also you think about girls today is
they think you have to know what you want to do.
I was clueless, I said, I just took the first
job that came my way. I was like, okay, I'll
in turn for a documentary film company, and then I
fell in love with it and I just worked my
(09:39):
way up and it was I think, honestly, I think
it's passion that gets you further. Carla Harris today when
she was on the stage, I think it was very
interesting what she said. It's not like you just have
to be good at your job. You have to be
good at your job and take it to the next level.
And Dylan and Sammy both hoped to use filmmaking and
(10:00):
makers in particular to inspire that same kind of passion
and younger female viewers. Again, this goes back to that
unofficial maker's motto of if you can see it, you
can be it. It's that visibility factor that we also
try to emphasize. I mean, if you just take it
to the school level, when kids are learning school and
I've an eleven year old and a thirteen year old,
(10:21):
and I look at what they're learning and it's still
the old classics, all the you know, all the men,
and I think we need to it's it's the classic
you know, Glorious Side and Billy jan King, so many
of our makers, excent if she can see it, she
can be it. And we have to flood the marketplace
with these stories so girls know that they can do it.
Even though I think it feels more than fifty years
(10:42):
ago like women can do it, it's still until you
have that image in your head, and that that if
there's an unconscious bias, the girls, even though they feel empowered,
don't know unless they see it. And in addition to
educating ourselves about our heritage, I would say, as women
and all of the trailblazing that women passed and present
(11:05):
have done and are continuing to do, and the ways
that we can learn from them, see it to be
it um to achieve our own definitions of success. One
thing that Dylan talked to Teen Vogue about a while back.
Is also the importance of young women or women of
(11:25):
any age, anyone of any age, understanding how we really can,
as she calls it, shape our own destiny. Um. She
said that, I think it's so hard for women, especially
to understand that you're in control. There's a sense that
you're waiting for the next thing to come along. But
you can shape your destiny, you can make things happen.
(11:46):
You're in control of change. Yeah, you're in control of change.
And there's really nothing too small on that path to
making things happen. You know. It's it's really tempting to
assume that we can never achieve these large goals of
being astronaut artists for instance. Oh it's not too big, Caroline, right,
(12:07):
because I mean, well the suits awfully bit. Yeah, yeah,
you gotta make room for all your paints, slama paints.
And it's it's easy to assume that that we we
just can't make it there. That's a great goal, it's
a great dream. But you know, I'm my station in
life feels too small, my skill set feels too small.
Or maybe we just feel like we're spinning our wheels
(12:28):
and we haven't made enough personal progress. We hear all
of these trailblazers amazing achievements, whether it's in Makers or
whether it's in those bio episodes that Kristen and I do.
But it's important to hear, like we said, all of
those little incremental steps and stumbles and victories that women
(12:50):
experience along the way, and so showing those paths is
really part of what Makers does so well, and it's
reflected in how both Dylan and Sammy do discussed the
shared passions of the women that they profile. But I
think one of the things that if you look at
all of our Makers, what they all have in common
is they look good at something and they were encouraged
(13:12):
to do it, and they stuck with it no matter what.
So it's the view of a passion. It's following that
passion through well. I was gonna add to that that
there's also nothing too small. But I was just talking
actually with Megan Smith that stage about how last night
she's at the casting director who does something as simple
as now she instead of writing, oh, background audience, she writes,
(13:34):
make half the audience email like don't have a subway
car shown with just white males, and actually just like
literally write that in the script and things like that too,
from what we've got on the stage yesterday, of don't
have a stack of resumes there, and if there's no
female candidates there, don't demand that there is one. There's
no nothing too small that will help in fact change
that way. It's a thing of our conference too. And
(13:56):
what Sammy says about nothing being too small to help
impact change applies to us too. It applies to anyone
listening to this podcast right now, because there is such
an importance of not belittling the personal and social change
that we can all make ourselves, Because I mean, it
(14:18):
is intimidating to have a goal of like I want
to make history. I want to achieve gender equality and
everything will be great for everyone. Yeah, that that feels lofty,
but there are things that we can do every day
to just live out what we do want to see.
It's like the next step beyond see it, to be it.
So it's funny we call it on our team the
chair movers. I love that that there's no test too
(14:41):
small mentality, and I think it's really important, especially when
you look at what you read about the millennial generation.
How can we prove that wrong? How can we be
like Oh, I'm in this room, and like every single
body in this room is here for a reason. Be
a chair mover, Like, move the chair the charness we moved, UM,
and nothing is beneath you that way. And I think
that's a great way to people respect that and people
(15:02):
recognize that, UM, and I think they I've seen the
other people go far with that mentality, and so I
mean talking about going far by starting small, I mean,
once you get on that path, what do you do?
How do you stick with it? How do you stay motivated? Yeah,
we definitely wanted to ask Dylan and Sammy about this
because I mean, remember this started with an idea in
(15:26):
two thousand five that is completely and totally different from
the outcome. Now. There is a Gloria documentary that Dylan
was finally able to produce this on HBO called Gloria's
sinem in her own words, and I highly recommend you
watch it because it's fantastic. But they have built this
(15:46):
massive archive. They're still building this archive. They're constantly on
the road going out to interview women and collect their
stories and produce them, and then of course hosting this
massive female empowerment conference that Caroline and I have been
fortunate enough to attend. So for these women who seem
(16:07):
to never ever stop, how do you keep that up?
How do you keep that paced up? It's a great question,
nas and day two of a conference. For me, I
have an amazing husband and an amazing two kids, and
my sequence of success isn't I've learned the word no.
(16:27):
It's a good one to prioritize. And I used to
be a yes woman, which I think was great. There's
a time in your life when seeing yes to every
opportunity is what you should do. And then I think
you reach a point where you have to say yes
and no. See. And I'm a different life situation than
Dylan right now. I have a fiancee and we both
you know, work pretty demanding twenty for hour jobs, and
(16:50):
so we've talked a lot of like work life balance,
and I don't love the idea of using the words
work life balance, but I do think there's like creative time.
I think that's really important. I think that you know
what they're are people like us. To keep going with
what we're doing, you have to give your gifts peak
step back. I appreciate what you have been doing and
think about what it is next, and I give yourself
that time alone to actually have that creative thinking it's
(17:12):
easier to have been done, but making that happen. And
I think that's all fabulous advice and um. In talking
with Teen Vogue, Dylan also had a little bit of
advice for her younger self, which we always love, advice
that really successful, amazing women would give to their younger selves.
It's like almost getting a peek inside some geniuses brain.
(17:33):
Well yeah, I mean I feel like it's just advice
directed at me, you know, like, oh yeah, oh that's
me perfect. I'm not twelve. But I really appreciate this advice.
And Dylan's told to you Vogue that she would tell herself, relax,
you have to enjoy what you're doing and not be
so afraid. When I was starting off in my career
was during the Internet boom. People my age were millionaires,
(17:56):
and here I was this poorly paid documentary associate producer,
thinking I was and successful enough instead of just enjoying
that I was doing incredible work. She goes on to say,
don't judge yourself by your peers. Judge yourself by yourself
and your own happiness. Oh, and that's such a great
way of explaining how we all start where we're at.
(18:17):
And that's totally okay, you know, because the more we
compare ourselves to other people, of course some are frustrated,
will be because we're always going to find someone who
is richer, prettier, smarter, and more successful than we are.
In Caroline, I'm looking at her right now. Yea, well,
and well, I should probably take off the astronaut suit.
(18:39):
It is pretty glamorous. Yeah, I mean it's really they're
shiny bits to it. I can see how it's intimidating,
But no, I like the idea of paying more heed
to finding your center, finding what you're good at, what
makes you happy, because you're never going to be as
happy and successful doing what you think you should be doing,
or doing what other people tell you should be doing,
(18:59):
as you would be if you were just following your passion,
following what is your natural skill set. And if you
do catch yourself doing the negative comparison of looking for
someone to kind of make you feel better judging other
people's choices and decisions, that's a good time to recall
Amy Poehler's motto, which we have adopted and repeated so
(19:21):
many times now on stuff I've never told you, which
is good for her, not for me. Essentially, you do you.
I feel like it's takeaway, Yeah, you do you, but
also cheer on the people around you well, and I
feel massively cheered on by, you know, talking to these
literal change makers doing so much work both in the
(19:42):
environments and communities around them, but also at large. I mean,
we've talked to Abby Wombach who has like the entire
world as her platform, and of course workers Advocate I
gen Poo, who just seems like she's going to save
the world absolutely and paying attention to dignifying the kind
of work that's so often overlooked in the same way
(20:06):
that Dylan and Sammy are doing this important work of
telling the stories that have been historically overlooked and encouraging
women to speak out. So we hope you do speak out. Yeah,
and we hope that as mini series has been inspiring
and empowering for you to start on your path to
change making as well. So with that, listeners, we want
(20:27):
to hear from you what's on your minds. Mom Stuff
at how stuff works dot Com is our email address.
You can also tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast or
messages on Facebook, and as always, if you want to
learn more about us, you can find all of our blogs, videos,
and podcasts over its Stuff Mom Never Told You dot
com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
(20:54):
Does it How stuff Works dot com
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from House top
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline, and we are halfway through March,
which means we're halfway through Women's History Month, which also
means carolinea for the purposes of this podcast, we're halfway
(00:26):
through change Makers. That's right. This has been an incredible
series that I've personally been enjoying and I think a
lot of our listeners have been enjoying too. We've talked
a lot about motivation and changing the world, and today
will be no different. Yeah. So this whole change Maker
series that we've been airing as bonus episodes every Friday
(00:47):
in March all relates back to the women that we're
talking to today. Because, as we've talked about in previous
intros to our change Maker's episodes, the first one with
domestic worker organizer i gam Poo and then with soccer
superstar Abby Wambach, we've talked about how this whole thing
(01:11):
was inspired by going to a women's empowerment conference hosted
by Makers, which is an a o L platform and
is the largest video archive of women's stories. And while
we've also noted that Gloria Sinum is kind of the
godmother and the central inspiration, but it was really this
(01:34):
filmmaker Dylan McGee who made the whole thing happen, right,
And so today we're talking with Dylan and also her
creative director partner Sammy Leevivitz about the importance of telling
women's stories, why this storytelling is critical really to our girls,
but to all of us at large. So for that reason,
today's theme is see It to Be It and I
(01:58):
love it because it's something that has resonated throughout so
many stuff Mo've Never told you episodes, particularly talking about
women in underrepresented fields like the stem fields, where visibility
matters so much, to be able to see people who
look like you doing incredible things, whether they are publicly
(02:20):
recognized or not. Yeah, we've so much of our research
has shown over the course of doing the podcast that
once you introduce the idea, whether it's being an artist
or an astronaut two girls, that helps them so much
to envision themselves in those roles or even bigger, better
(02:41):
roles that they might not have even thought about before,
like being an art astronaut. Right, an artist astronaut? Yes, Yes,
painting in space. That's my dream, even though it is
now because I've never thought of it before, and now
that you're telling me the story, I have to be it.
There you go. Well, I feel like Makers is really
(03:04):
providing a needed resource in terms of this visibility because
you know, as we've talked about many times, it's a
docuseries essentially, which is showcasing the trailblazing biographies of as
of this recording, like more than two hundred incredible women
from all sorts of backgrounds, doing all sorts of things.
(03:27):
Um And they've done series focused on women in comedy, Hollywood, Space,
Caroline Base, there you Go, astronauts, but also women in war, business, politics.
They've even expanded to uh Canada and to China. Um
and for a real big dose of Makers, there was
(03:49):
an entire six part series that aired on PBS, which
is fantastic if you haven't seen it. Yeah, and Makers,
this magical, wonderful, inspirational series is the brainchild of filmmaker
Dylan McGee. She's an Emmy Award winning executive producer at
Coon Heart McGee Productions, and her creative partner Samantha Lebovitz,
(04:10):
who runs Makers as the senior producer and creative director.
And I have to tell you, um, I kind of
want I know she's a busy lady, but like, I
kind of want Dylan around me all the time because
her enthusiasm and her passion are both so infectious. This
is a woman who just has this incredible vision and
(04:34):
and knack for telling women's stories. Yeah. And so we
sat down with Dylan and Sammy at the Maker's Conference
and the first thing we wanted to know was a
what they did, but more importantly why So let's hear
from Dylan McGee and Sammy Lee Bowitz. I'm Dylan Magee.
I'm the founder and executive producer of Makers, and I
(04:56):
have a mission to capture every woman's story because there's
a void and there aren't enough stories and we need
to fill it. I am Smith Leibovi. It's irun Makers
for a o L Vice President, credibjector and feedbacking on
Dylan's mission. I want to spread those stories to girls
in every single corner of the world. And telling these
stories sort of fits in with what Dylan said was
(05:19):
a moment for women. She says, maybe it's just my
own personal awaking, but there is something in the air
these days, a new focus on women's issues. There seems
to be a movement brewing, and I hope that Makers
plays an important role in it. And if we look
at the background of how Makers even happened though, it
(05:41):
I think corroborates what McGee is saying in terms of
something being in the air. So it started way back
when in two thousand five, the olden days Um when
McGhee wanted to make a documentary on Glorious Sinum, which
is a fantastic idea. Of course, of course you would
want to do that, and Glow said, no, yeah, she
(06:02):
wasn't interested. She told Dylan McGee to broaden her scope
and include more women's voices, more women who are out
there doing incredible things for the movement. And you know,
Mege said that she thought, well, it's surely this has
been done, Like I'm disappointed Gloria won't sit down and
do this big documentary with me um, Like surely other
(06:24):
people have done some sort of series on women's voices. No, no,
they hadn't. And one thing that she said in uh
an interview with her that is on Makers dot Com
was how private a lot of these stories are so
she said quote. As filmmakers, the thing we found most
(06:45):
surprising and intriguing about this story is that it's so
vast and also so private, because it includes not only
the story of feminism and the political change taking place
for women over the past fifty years, but also the
personal stories happening behind the scenes of women fighting for
equality in the workplace and at home. And I'll tell you, Caroline,
(07:06):
reading that quote, it reminds me of so many of
the stuff Mo've never told you letters that we get.
I mean, that's the whole other piece of this entire show,
not just this mini series, but this whole Sminty universe,
where you and I talk about a lot of these
front facing issues and the political changes that are still
(07:27):
happening for women, and then we hear from men and
women alike about how that personally affects them. And so often,
I mean, those stories are so private, we don't talk
about them very often. Yeah, And it's not only those
private stories things that are going on behind the scenes,
how these big either global national issues are affecting people's
(07:49):
lives on a small scale. But it's also that sort
of pulling back the curtain on how people got where
they are, you know, Kristen and I, we we try
to tell you how the heroines that we discuss in
our in our podcasts, how they got where they where
they're going, whether it's a mentor whether it's just pulling
(08:09):
themselves up by their bootstraps. And um, I think Dylan
and Sammy too are are trying to do that as well,
to showcase how these large issues are affecting people, but
also just how they did it, how they succeeded well.
And speaking of that, Caroline, we should back up for
a minute and talk about how McGee got to where
(08:31):
she is, because you know, she spends so much time
telling other people's stories in such beautiful and profound ways,
but she has such an important story that we can
learn from as well. Because initially she wanted to be
the next Katie Kuric. That Today Show was all the rage,
and she even landed an internship offer from them, but
(08:53):
I think it was a producer at the Today Show
suggested that she go to a smaller documentary firm so
that she could get more experience, which is how she
ended up at Coon Heart And she told Teen Vogue,
I don't remember who this woman was, but she completely
shaped my career. I went in turned and fell in
love with documentary filmmaking, and I became an accidental filmmaker
(09:17):
for me. I started my career as an intern with
a filmmaker named Peter Coonhart and I'm I mean one
of the things also you think about girls today is
they think you have to know what you want to do.
I was clueless, I said, I just took the first
job that came my way. I was like, okay, I'll
in turn for a documentary film company, and then I
fell in love with it and I just worked my
(09:39):
way up and it was I think, honestly, I think
it's passion that gets you further. Carla Harris today when
she was on the stage, I think it was very
interesting what she said. It's not like you just have
to be good at your job. You have to be
good at your job and take it to the next level.
And Dylan and Sammy both hoped to use filmmaking and
(10:00):
makers in particular to inspire that same kind of passion
and younger female viewers. Again, this goes back to that
unofficial maker's motto of if you can see it, you
can be it. It's that visibility factor that we also
try to emphasize. I mean, if you just take it
to the school level, when kids are learning school and
I've an eleven year old and a thirteen year old,
(10:21):
and I look at what they're learning and it's still
the old classics, all the you know, all the men,
and I think we need to it's it's the classic
you know, Glorious Side and Billy jan King, so many
of our makers, excent if she can see it, she
can be it. And we have to flood the marketplace
with these stories so girls know that they can do it.
Even though I think it feels more than fifty years
(10:42):
ago like women can do it, it's still until you
have that image in your head, and that that if
there's an unconscious bias, the girls, even though they feel empowered,
don't know unless they see it. And in addition to
educating ourselves about our heritage, I would say, as women
and all of the trailblazing that women passed and present
(11:05):
have done and are continuing to do, and the ways
that we can learn from them, see it to be
it um to achieve our own definitions of success. One
thing that Dylan talked to Teen Vogue about a while back.
Is also the importance of young women or women of
(11:25):
any age, anyone of any age, understanding how we really can,
as she calls it, shape our own destiny. Um. She
said that, I think it's so hard for women, especially
to understand that you're in control. There's a sense that
you're waiting for the next thing to come along. But
you can shape your destiny, you can make things happen.
(11:46):
You're in control of change. Yeah, you're in control of change.
And there's really nothing too small on that path to
making things happen. You know. It's it's really tempting to
assume that we can never achieve these large goals of
being astronaut artists for instance. Oh it's not too big, Caroline, right,
(12:07):
because I mean, well the suits awfully bit. Yeah, yeah,
you gotta make room for all your paints, slama paints.
And it's it's easy to assume that that we we
just can't make it there. That's a great goal, it's
a great dream. But you know, I'm my station in
life feels too small, my skill set feels too small.
Or maybe we just feel like we're spinning our wheels
(12:28):
and we haven't made enough personal progress. We hear all
of these trailblazers amazing achievements, whether it's in Makers or
whether it's in those bio episodes that Kristen and I do.
But it's important to hear, like we said, all of
those little incremental steps and stumbles and victories that women
(12:50):
experience along the way, and so showing those paths is
really part of what Makers does so well, and it's
reflected in how both Dylan and Sammy do discussed the
shared passions of the women that they profile. But I
think one of the things that if you look at
all of our Makers, what they all have in common
is they look good at something and they were encouraged
(13:12):
to do it, and they stuck with it no matter what.
So it's the view of a passion. It's following that
passion through well. I was gonna add to that that
there's also nothing too small. But I was just talking
actually with Megan Smith that stage about how last night
she's at the casting director who does something as simple
as now she instead of writing, oh, background audience, she writes,
(13:34):
make half the audience email like don't have a subway
car shown with just white males, and actually just like
literally write that in the script and things like that too,
from what we've got on the stage yesterday, of don't
have a stack of resumes there, and if there's no
female candidates there, don't demand that there is one. There's
no nothing too small that will help in fact change
that way. It's a thing of our conference too. And
(13:56):
what Sammy says about nothing being too small to help
impact change applies to us too. It applies to anyone
listening to this podcast right now, because there is such
an importance of not belittling the personal and social change
that we can all make ourselves, Because I mean, it
(14:18):
is intimidating to have a goal of like I want
to make history. I want to achieve gender equality and
everything will be great for everyone. Yeah, that that feels lofty,
but there are things that we can do every day
to just live out what we do want to see.
It's like the next step beyond see it, to be it.
So it's funny we call it on our team the
chair movers. I love that that there's no test too
(14:41):
small mentality, and I think it's really important, especially when
you look at what you read about the millennial generation.
How can we prove that wrong? How can we be
like Oh, I'm in this room, and like every single
body in this room is here for a reason. Be
a chair mover, Like, move the chair the charness we moved, UM,
and nothing is beneath you that way. And I think
that's a great way to people respect that and people
(15:02):
recognize that, UM, and I think they I've seen the
other people go far with that mentality, and so I
mean talking about going far by starting small, I mean,
once you get on that path, what do you do?
How do you stick with it? How do you stay motivated? Yeah,
we definitely wanted to ask Dylan and Sammy about this
because I mean, remember this started with an idea in
(15:26):
two thousand five that is completely and totally different from
the outcome. Now. There is a Gloria documentary that Dylan
was finally able to produce this on HBO called Gloria's
sinem in her own words, and I highly recommend you
watch it because it's fantastic. But they have built this
(15:46):
massive archive. They're still building this archive. They're constantly on
the road going out to interview women and collect their
stories and produce them, and then of course hosting this
massive female empowerment conference that Caroline and I have been
fortunate enough to attend. So for these women who seem
(16:07):
to never ever stop, how do you keep that up?
How do you keep that paced up? It's a great question,
nas and day two of a conference. For me, I
have an amazing husband and an amazing two kids, and
my sequence of success isn't I've learned the word no.
(16:27):
It's a good one to prioritize. And I used to
be a yes woman, which I think was great. There's
a time in your life when seeing yes to every
opportunity is what you should do. And then I think
you reach a point where you have to say yes
and no. See. And I'm a different life situation than
Dylan right now. I have a fiancee and we both
you know, work pretty demanding twenty for hour jobs, and
(16:50):
so we've talked a lot of like work life balance,
and I don't love the idea of using the words
work life balance, but I do think there's like creative time.
I think that's really important. I think that you know
what they're are people like us. To keep going with
what we're doing, you have to give your gifts peak
step back. I appreciate what you have been doing and
think about what it is next, and I give yourself
that time alone to actually have that creative thinking it's
(17:12):
easier to have been done, but making that happen. And
I think that's all fabulous advice and um. In talking
with Teen Vogue, Dylan also had a little bit of
advice for her younger self, which we always love, advice
that really successful, amazing women would give to their younger selves.
It's like almost getting a peek inside some geniuses brain.
(17:33):
Well yeah, I mean I feel like it's just advice
directed at me, you know, like, oh yeah, oh that's
me perfect. I'm not twelve. But I really appreciate this advice.
And Dylan's told to you Vogue that she would tell herself, relax,
you have to enjoy what you're doing and not be
so afraid. When I was starting off in my career
was during the Internet boom. People my age were millionaires,
(17:56):
and here I was this poorly paid documentary associate producer,
thinking I was and successful enough instead of just enjoying
that I was doing incredible work. She goes on to say,
don't judge yourself by your peers. Judge yourself by yourself
and your own happiness. Oh, and that's such a great
way of explaining how we all start where we're at.
(18:17):
And that's totally okay, you know, because the more we
compare ourselves to other people, of course some are frustrated,
will be because we're always going to find someone who
is richer, prettier, smarter, and more successful than we are.
In Caroline, I'm looking at her right now. Yea, well,
and well, I should probably take off the astronaut suit.
(18:39):
It is pretty glamorous. Yeah, I mean it's really they're
shiny bits to it. I can see how it's intimidating,
But no, I like the idea of paying more heed
to finding your center, finding what you're good at, what
makes you happy, because you're never going to be as
happy and successful doing what you think you should be doing,
or doing what other people tell you should be doing,
(18:59):
as you would be if you were just following your passion,
following what is your natural skill set. And if you
do catch yourself doing the negative comparison of looking for
someone to kind of make you feel better judging other
people's choices and decisions, that's a good time to recall
Amy Poehler's motto, which we have adopted and repeated so
(19:21):
many times now on stuff I've never told you, which
is good for her, not for me. Essentially, you do you.
I feel like it's takeaway, Yeah, you do you, but
also cheer on the people around you well, and I
feel massively cheered on by, you know, talking to these
literal change makers doing so much work both in the
(19:42):
environments and communities around them, but also at large. I mean,
we've talked to Abby Wombach who has like the entire
world as her platform, and of course workers Advocate I
gen Poo, who just seems like she's going to save
the world absolutely and paying attention to dignifying the kind
of work that's so often overlooked in the same way
(20:06):
that Dylan and Sammy are doing this important work of
telling the stories that have been historically overlooked and encouraging
women to speak out. So we hope you do speak out. Yeah,
and we hope that as mini series has been inspiring
and empowering for you to start on your path to
change making as well. So with that, listeners, we want
(20:27):
to hear from you what's on your minds. Mom Stuff
at how stuff works dot Com is our email address.
You can also tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast or
messages on Facebook, and as always, if you want to
learn more about us, you can find all of our blogs, videos,
and podcasts over its Stuff Mom Never Told You dot
com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
(20:54):
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