April 24, 2017 • 29 mins
Caroline and Cristen first discuss influential Latinas in America. They then explore the history of Chicana feminism and its past and present frustrations with white, Eurocentric feminism.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff. Mom never told you, from house to books,
not color. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
and I'm Caroline, and today we are celebrating Hispanic Heritage Fund.
That's right, Hispanic Heritage Month did not actually start out
(00:23):
as a month. It only became an entire month under
President Reagan. It originally started in nine however, as Hispanic
Heritage Week under President Lyndon Johnson. And if you're wondering,
which I'm sure you are, it runs from September to
October fifteenth, so you have a whole, nice long stretch
to celebrate Hispanic history. And there is significance to it
(00:45):
kicking off on September fift because that is the anniversary
of independence for Latin American countries including Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras,
and Nicaragua. And in addition to that, Mexico and Chile
celebrate their Independence days on September six and September eight, respectively.
And not only that, but also during this period, Columbus
(01:08):
Day or Dia de la Raza, which is October twelve,
falls within this month long period. And also thanks to
the Facebook fan who said, hey, ladies, you should do
something for Hispanic Heritage Month, because yes, it is a
fantastic suggestion. Um. But first, let's talk for a moment
about Hispanic versus Latino versus another term that has been
(01:35):
used as a slur in the past but has since
been reclaimed, and that is Chicano, right. Chicano or Chicana
was originally, like you said, a derogatory term, but has
been reclaimed by several groups, and we'll get into that
as we go on in the podcast, But first of all,
let's talk about what Hispanic means. That's a broad term
and it basically refers to countries that can trace part
(01:58):
of their history to Spa and that includes Mexico, parts
of Central America, most of South America. And it refers
to very importantly origins, not race. And so a country
that would not be called Hispanic, for instance, would be
Brazil because that was colonized back in the day by Portugal.
And then Latino or Latina is close and meaning, but
(02:20):
it does include countries like Brazil, so it more of
a generic term. And I believe that the Associated Press,
for instance, a lot of news outlets now opt for
Latino and Latina, so just some language notes at the
top of the podcast. Um, but first, let's kick off
this celebration just by calling out some culturally influential Hispanic women. Yeah,
(02:47):
this is coming from a couple of sources, including Time
and Yahoo. So let's kick it off with some entertainers
that we should be familiar with. We've got Christina Aguilera
of Ecuadorian descent, Sophia Vergara, who's Colombian and she's actually
the highest paid actress on TV right now. And let's
not forget America Ferrara, who in two thousand seven became
the first Latina to win an Emmy for Outstanding Lead
(03:09):
Actress in a Comedy Series. Her parents are from Honduras
um and then moving into lawmaking, we have Susanna Martinez,
who is America's first Latina governor and the first female
and current governor of New Mexico, And of course Supreme
Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who is of Puerto Rican descent. Yeah,
(03:29):
and it's worth noting even though she is not American.
Michelle Bachelet, who is the former President of Chile and
current leader of You and Women, also known as the
un Entity for gender Equality and the empowerment of women,
and a couple other notable names, and certainly these are
not all of the culturally influential Latino women that we
(03:50):
could cite, but we do want to give props to
Ellen o'chilla, who is the deputy director of the Johnson
Space Center and was the first Latina astronaut to go
into space in Yeah, that's I want to go to space,
although I feel like I would get really emotions sick.
And one woman standing at the head of a media
(04:11):
empire is Nina Taffler, who is the president of the
CBS Network and has a Puerto Rican mother. And then
finally there's Dara Torres, who is of Spanish descent and
is considered the fastest female swimmer in the US in
one twelve Olympic medals. So that is just a snapshot,
obviously of the diversity of fields in which these women
(04:34):
are making so many in roads. But we really want
to focus this podcast and our our celebration of Hispanic
Heritage Month more on the daily lives of everyday women
in the United States, because while all of those women
that we decided are of course worth celebrating, but their
(04:56):
lives are probably a lot different and a lot more affluent,
not surprising week as many our celebrities, but they do
stand and start contrast to what life is really like
for the average Hispanic woman in America, right. And so,
if we're looking at numbers UM in the US, there
are thirty point one million Hispanic adults, fourteen point four million,
(05:18):
or almost half are women. That's coming from the U
s Census Bureau. And in two thousand eight, the Pew
Research Center took a look at some of these demographics
UM and found that the picture is not always so
pretty when it comes to things like income and education.
For instance, thirty six percent of Hispanic women in the
(05:40):
US have less than a high school education, compared with
just ten percent of non Hispanic women. And then when
we look at median income for Hispanic women, it's four
hundred sixty dollars per week compared to six hundred and
fifteen dollars per week for non Hispanic women. And they
are also twice as likely to live in poverty. And
(06:02):
Hispanic women born in the US are more likely to
be in the labor force than Hispanic women who have
moved here. For reasons that we will get into in
just a little bit. Right. And those women who are
in the labor force are most likely to be in
office and administration support roles um and they are more
likely than non Hispanic women to be employed in blue
(06:25):
collar jobs like building and grounds, cleaning and maintenance, food prep,
and personal care slash service occupation type jobs. So these
kinds of inequalities in terms of educational attainment and the
wages that they're bringing home and domestic roles are the
reasons why we want to focus on something called Chicana feminism,
(06:47):
which then evolves into Latina feminism. But when we're looking
first at Chicano feminism, it's a movement in ideology that
seeks to address those inequalities that are specifically facing for
Chicano feminism women of Mexican descent, right. And it's not
(07:07):
just issues that they're facing kind of in society at large.
It's also, like we said, in within their own communities,
the issue of being almost invisible, of being being expected
to stay home. So a common definition of a chicana
is a Mexican American female raised in the US, and
it's a term that was actually reclaimed, you know, we
(07:28):
pointed out that it was you know, for a long
time a derogatory term, and it was reclaimed during the
Chicano movement of the nineteen sixties by Mexican American women
who wanted to establish social, cultural, and political identities for
themselves in America beyond kind of the deal that they've
been handed. Yeah, and and Mexican Americans have a long
(07:49):
and rich history in the United States because as early
as the US Mexico War of eighteen forty eight, for instance,
and the Mexican Revolution in nineteen ten, Mexican families were
driven to settle in the US colonized territories, including El Pasto,
San Antonio, San Diego, l A, and Santa Barbara. So
this Chicano movement out of which grows the Chicano feminist movement,
(08:13):
sparked in the nineteen sixties and was fueled by the
United farm Workers Strike and now the United farm Workers
were a group that really sought equality from Mexican American
workers agricultural workers, and was originally referred to as the
National farm Workers Association, and it was started by three
main players, Caesar Chavez, Philip Veracruz and Delores Whereta. Yes,
(08:37):
a woman started an organization um and she was Actually,
she's really fascinating to read about. She was inspired herself
by her mother's independence and entrepreneurial spirit and talks about
how her mother was so involved in the community and
while she may not have referred to herself as a
feminist or even a Chicano feminist, she was there in
(08:57):
the community, you know, volunteering and helping out. So she
was very involved. Yeah, And for fans of PBSS makers
series on Influential Women, there's a great interview with Dolora
Suerta and which she talks about her participation with the
farm Workers Association and how it was really significant that
she was a woman in the movement and also in
(09:20):
the spotlight as well. And uh, it really talks about
how it's important for women to own their accomplishments and
not be scared to raise their voice if you want
to check out that interview. Um. So, while we have
things like the United farm Workers Strike going on and
that energizing of the Chicano movement, there are women who
(09:41):
are starting to recognize not just inequalities in regard to
their ethnicity, but also inequalities with regard to their gender
roles in their own societies. And so with all of
this activism that's starting to go on. I mean, because
think about it in the context of civil rights that's
going on all across the nation. You have these women
(10:04):
in the same in the same way that you have
black women within the civil rights movement starting up their
consciousness at raising groups and things like womanism growing out
of that, you have Chicano feminism starting two well. So
it's interesting to look at the barriers that they had
to overcome to even form this movement and how those
barriers really just drove them to push right through those walls.
(10:28):
So some of those things that they were dealing with,
it was the same thing that we talked about in
our Solidarity as for White Women episode where we looked
at some African American feminists. They really were pushing against
this eurocentric feminist framework that tended to ignore differences in backgrounds.
It was, you know, a lot of uh women of
(10:48):
color at this time, we're pointing out, like, you know,
what feminism really is this kind of middle class white
woman's fight. I don't feel the same I don't come
from that same background, and my fight is different. And
they also were fighting against this embedded Marianista model of
gender relations, which centered on an acceptance of abusive male
behavior and women's subordination. Basically the idea of you know,
(11:12):
idealizing the virgin Mary and how submissive and you know,
just sweet, gentle and quiet she was. Yeah, you have
the marianism as it's referred to for the women versus
the more machismo culture that is more applied to the men.
And it's very much the dominant and subordinate within that right.
(11:34):
And so you know, there's this ideal of this virginal quiet,
subdued purity, and this focus on being a wife and
a mother. That's your job. That's that's the role that
you feel both in our family and our community in
addition to society at large. And there's been a lot
of scholarship that's actually looked into chicon of feminism, their
(11:56):
entire departments actually at colleges that are devoted to this
and not just looking at things like the marionismo and
the messicana, but also the roots of that machismo culture
as well. And and some people think that the machismo
element of Mexican culture was really a reaction against the
powerlessness that the men felt in broader American society, which
(12:20):
only reinforced on the home front, the subjugation of women.
It's all a trickling down in a way of racism
that then breeds more sexism that then, you know, cycles
into these generations of women who are really bound to
the home. And with Chicano feminism, these women were ready
(12:45):
to say, you know what, I've had enough of this
model of life. So this kind of cohesive Chicana identity
really sparked after the nine nine Chicano Youth Live Racian
Conference that sort of brought the Chicano movement together. But
out of that, in May nineteen seventy one came more
(13:08):
of the Chicano movement of saying like, okay, well we
are voices need to be heard too, and that in
May nineteen seventy one, that's when we have the Muharius
porl Raza conference, which brought together six hundred women. Yeah,
and they took a survey which was really telling of
the situation that a lot of these women were facing
(13:28):
because it found that eighty four percent of those six
enter women who were gathered so that they weren't encouraged,
for instance, to pursue professional careers and education was not
considered important among their families, it wasn't considered important for
women specifically to attain education. Similarly, eighty four percent also
(13:49):
thought that there wasn't equal pay for equal work. That
sounds familiar, and seventy two perceived racial discrimination. And also
out of that conference, they called four things like legal abortion,
equal access to education, establishment of child care centers, and
abolition of traditional marriages. And with those two last platforms,
(14:12):
the need for child care centers and abolition of traditional marriages,
you start to see how Chicano feminism is a bit
different addresses different needs than the eurocentric white feminism that
we often hear about in terms of second wave feminism.
That really hammered home gender over race, gender over race,
(14:34):
it's all about women, and we're just talking about women
rather than looking at ethnicity and class, and that was problematic, right.
So that same year of the conference, nine writer Marta
Vidal really kind of hammers home why this movement is
so important and so necessary, and she writes that the
(14:54):
oppression suffered by Chicanas is different from that suffered by
most women in this country. Because Chicana are part of
an oppressed nationality, they are subjected to the racism practiced
against Larraza, and since the overwhelming majority of Chicanas are workers,
Chicanas are also victims of the exploitation of the working class.
But in addition, Chicanas, along with the rest of women,
(15:14):
are relegated to an inferior position because of their sex. Thus,
Raza women suffer a triple form of oppression as members
of an oppressed nationality, as workers and as women, and so,
as you can hear in that quote from Marta Vidal,
the determination to not just address their needs as women,
(15:37):
but also the more specific needs as Mexican American women
who were facing these different and arguably more difficult kinds
of hindrances within society. And with that kind of determination,
Chicana feminism really laid a foundation to rethink what we
(15:59):
might normally ink of as just kind of basic feminism,
to broaden it and shift it from the eurocentric view.
In the same way that you're going to see if
you look into feminism and womanism among African American women
at the time, these are a lot of similar struggles
that are going on, and it's set effort to raise
(16:20):
their visibility as assets both within their community and also
within the population at large. That's a major hallmark of
Chicano feminism, right, And it does evolve, just like any
social movement does. It starts to evolve, and that's when
we have the outgrowth of Latina feminism, which serves as
more of an umbrella term. It's more of a coalition
(16:40):
bringing together um women from so many different backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds,
regional backgrounds, um. Although it can be challenging, as with
any label, it can be challenging to just say I'm
a Latina feminist or a Chicana feminist or I'm part
of a Latina feminist movement because you do have all
of those different backgrounds. You do have women from so
(17:02):
many different corners of the world, and so part of
why there was this breaking away from like more mainstream
feminism is because there wasn't a voice for them. But
you also have to acknowledge, well, is everybody's voice being
heard under Latina feminism too. But we're just bringing that
up to point out that there was this evolution of
(17:23):
the movement to be somewhat more inclusive. Yeah, there's been
a lot of efforts to create more of a pan
Latina coalition, building and really conceptualizing what a pan ethnic
Latina feminist movement that is inclusive would look like. And
if you read scholarship then and today, a lot of
(17:48):
times they talk about how that really is a major challenge,
not to mention still the challenge of their voices being heard,
simply because the platform for Latina feminists and fortunately it's
still not as loud as the more eurocentric whiter feminist today.
(18:08):
I say, as a European descended white feminist, um, but
if you do, we we encourage you to learn more
about this movement. And if you do want to, we
encourage you to look up Gloria and Zelda who wrote
Borderlands Leve front Arra the New Mestiza, and that's considered
(18:28):
basically the seminal Chicano feminist text. Yeah, she was a
lesbian Chicano writer whose work shows the intersectionality of things
like gender, sexuality and the social construction of racial identity.
So if you want to really dig into the theory
of Chicano feminism, definitely check out border Lands. So let's
(18:50):
take a moment before we wrap up the podcast and
talk to us a minute about Latina feminism today. I mean,
are are there voices being heard? Well? It seems to
me in in doing a lot of reading for this
that you know, women in this movement still face a
lot of the same issues that they did before, you know,
kind of being overwhelmed by the mainstream feminist movement, the
(19:14):
Eurocentric feminist movement, still hearing echoes of you know, being
a woman is more important than your race, you know,
fighting for women's rights is more important than your ethnicity,
all of that stuff. And so one woman in particular,
Julianna Britto Schwartz, who is of Brazilian descent her her
mother is Brazilian, wrote Confessions of a Complicated Latina Feminist,
(19:37):
explaining why she adopted this term Latina feminist. Yeah, she said,
I've had too many conversations with Latina who I would
consider to be incredible feminists and have had them tell
me that they feel excluded and out of place in
the feminist movement. To these women, feminist does not represent
them or the struggles that their communities face. And Schwartz
(19:58):
goes on to talk about how spending time with women
in rural Brazil even further changed her mind about how
feminism applies to Latino women right, and she talks about how,
you know, while there are feminist movers and shakers for
lack of a better term, fighting for passage of laws
protecting women against violence and and things like that, women
(20:22):
who are actually out in more rural areas aren't as
concerned with laws as they are the implementation of them
and the actual trickle down effect of being protected. And
she writes that they are fighting to break down deeply
rooted stereotypes about women's role in the home and in
the workplace just as they are, just as many women
are in America still, and she says they are less
(20:43):
concerned about legalizing abortion and more concerned with having to
drive an hour and a half from modern maternal healthcare.
And there's a Miss magazine roundtable not too long ago
with Latino feminist bloggers including Schwartz along with Sarah ENA's
Calderone and Murray Perez and Patricia Volloy, who really revealed
(21:04):
similar observations and perceptions of mainstream feminism in terms of
not fully identifying with it, and a lot talking about
how their voices aren't so much being heard because their
experience is often so different than the narratives that we
(21:29):
typically hear in you know, on the large people with
the largest Twitter followings or the mainstream blogs or whatever
it might be. Sharon, one thing that Sworts brought up
that I did think was really interesting to point out
because you don't from a from the place where we sit,
we don't often think about it this way. But she
talks about, you know, reproductive rights also being it's being
(21:53):
a choice, it's having a choice both ways. You know
a lot of people talking about the choice to have
an abortion, but she's saying a lot of women of color,
you know, face these awful stereotypes for choosing to have children.
You know, a lot of a lot of women of
color are you know, being told like, you know, are
you sure you want to have more kids? Maybe? You know,
(22:13):
maybe you shouldn't have so many children. And that's just
as much a choice as choosing not to have children.
And so there are so many different perspectives out there,
and and we wanted to bring a lot of them
to you as best we could. Yeah, And one thing
that that blogger round table really hammered home the same
(22:34):
thing when you look into the solidarity is for white
women conversation that spring up on Twitter not too long ago,
is that need for intersectionality and not just talking about it,
but really trying to put it more into practice, which
is part of the reason why we wanted to do
this podcast. I mean, obviously the personal experience CareLine that
(22:57):
you and I share, our two white women, we can't
change that. But what we can change is at least
the names that we reference and the sources that we
talk about, and the topics that we cover. So I'd
say at least our celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month and
(23:17):
talking about Latina feminism is our contribution to the conversation.
That's right. Just as we're celebrating Hispanic heritage, we're celebrating Hispanic,
Latina and Chicano feminists out there in the world as well. Yeah,
And I think that the more we can deepen our
understanding of what feminism really means, not just to us,
(23:40):
but to people who might not be like us at all,
then the better understanding that we're going to have of
our society at large, because it really I think that
everyone's definition of it really speaks to a different experience
that we need to consider. That's right, And I I,
(24:01):
for one, look forward to hearing from our listeners. From
our Latina listeners are Hispanic listeners, Um, maybe tell us
more about women, women, heroes you know that that you
have in your lives, or or writers, politicians, anyone who
who you think deserves to be mentioned. Yeah, and whether
or not you know, for Latinos or women of color
in general, whether or not that point about not identifying
(24:26):
even still with feminism because of how white and eurocentric
it still seems to be. If that's something that also
resonates with you, because I think it's an important conversation
that we all need to be having. So send us
your letters. As always. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com
is where you can write us. You can also tweet
(24:47):
us at mom Stuff podcast or hit us up on Facebook.
And we've got a couple of notes to share with
you when we come right back from this break and
now back to our letters. I have a letter here
from Alice about our Solidarity is for White Women episode,
(25:07):
which also revisited six black feminists you should know. Alice
writes as a woman of color who has issues identifying
as a feminist for many of the reasons you address
in this podcast and in the Black Feminist episode, I
find it hard to have a conversation about this with
other white women who do identify as feminists. I can't
(25:28):
tell you how many conversations I've had with women who
declared their feminists then in the same breath go on
to say something racist or more likely some sort of microaggression.
Some examples include describing their racist Halloween costume plans, explaining
that a part of the city is unsafe because it
is a historically black neighborhood. I'm tired of being forced
(25:48):
to apologize to feminists for pointing out their racism and
think that you guys could have done a better job
of discussing the specifics of why women of color today
feel excluded. It's hard because I feel like these sorts
of things are mostly anecdotal, but discussion discussing the issue
of things like derailing would have been helpful all at all.
(26:09):
I was excited to see this episode title in my
little podcast menu, and I hope that you two are
able to incorporate more viewpoints from an episodes about women
of color. So thank you, Alice. And speaking of racist
Halloween costumes, spoiler alert, we are planning by Facebook request
to do an episode on Halloween and cultural appropriation. Hooray,
(26:35):
don't dress up as a Native American white people. Well,
I have an email here from Emily and it is
in response to another listener letter that we read from
a horticulturalist who is the only woman on her team,
and she was asking for advice on how to get
along with sometimes not so nice male coworkers. And Emily
(26:57):
has a lot of experience working with in um and
specifically working with men in the military, and so she
passed along some tips. She says. One, if someone does
something that makes you uncomfortable, talk to them honestly and
respectfully and tell them that what they did made you
uncomfortable and to please stop. Take someone in the office
(27:19):
as a witness if you need to. I have done
this before and I have never had to go beyond
this level too. If this fails, make an official complaint
with the person who is in charge of the country club. Again,
maintain honesty and respect. And three, if this fails, get
a lawyer. You will be amazed how things can change
with a phrase, I need to talk to my attorney
(27:41):
about this harassment. Only say this if you will actually
go and get a lawyer. Don't bluff. Besides the psychopaths
and sociopaths in the world, most humans are very nice,
and most dudes don't realize that they might be making
you uncomfortable. The mouse poop glove incident might be even
a misguided attempt to include you their club. And as
far as your supervisor asking you if you're upset because
(28:04):
quote unquote you're on your period, I would have responded,
and have done so in the past about explaining the
fun of periodng and how awesome pap smears are and
all the other lady problems and quotes that way ladies
have that will probably shut most dudes up. Dudes aren't
usually fond of hearing about unsexy lady fluid problems. If
(28:26):
they're still listening and you haven't grossed them out, your
supervisor maybe a psychopath or sociopath, and you probably need
to find somewhere else to work. I wish you luck.
Lady horticulturalists. Oh my god, that is genius. I love that.
I'm going to use that in my life, like talking
about like now I'm not on my period. I just
(28:46):
had a speculum shoved halfway up my cervix and you know,
like pats nearing and up. I wonder I thought I'll
get him to stop that sounds great. I know I'm uncomfortable. Yeah, Kristen,
I'm watching Kristen like p We shrink into a little
ball as I talk. Pasts are only fun now they're not.
Have we done an episode on pat scores. We've talked
(29:08):
about it, maybe it's time. Well, if you would like
to send us your pets suggestions. Mom Stuff at discovery
dot com is where you can email us. You can
follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and like
us on Facebook. You can also follow us on Instagram.
Some people keep asking, hey, y'all on Instagram yet, Yes,
(29:30):
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works dot com
Welcome to stuff. Mom never told you, from house to books,
not color. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
and I'm Caroline, and today we are celebrating Hispanic Heritage Fund.
That's right, Hispanic Heritage Month did not actually start out
(00:23):
as a month. It only became an entire month under
President Reagan. It originally started in nine however, as Hispanic
Heritage Week under President Lyndon Johnson. And if you're wondering,
which I'm sure you are, it runs from September to
October fifteenth, so you have a whole, nice long stretch
to celebrate Hispanic history. And there is significance to it
(00:45):
kicking off on September fift because that is the anniversary
of independence for Latin American countries including Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras,
and Nicaragua. And in addition to that, Mexico and Chile
celebrate their Independence days on September six and September eight, respectively.
And not only that, but also during this period, Columbus
(01:08):
Day or Dia de la Raza, which is October twelve,
falls within this month long period. And also thanks to
the Facebook fan who said, hey, ladies, you should do
something for Hispanic Heritage Month, because yes, it is a
fantastic suggestion. Um. But first, let's talk for a moment
about Hispanic versus Latino versus another term that has been
(01:35):
used as a slur in the past but has since
been reclaimed, and that is Chicano, right. Chicano or Chicana
was originally, like you said, a derogatory term, but has
been reclaimed by several groups, and we'll get into that
as we go on in the podcast, But first of all,
let's talk about what Hispanic means. That's a broad term
and it basically refers to countries that can trace part
(01:58):
of their history to Spa and that includes Mexico, parts
of Central America, most of South America. And it refers
to very importantly origins, not race. And so a country
that would not be called Hispanic, for instance, would be
Brazil because that was colonized back in the day by Portugal.
And then Latino or Latina is close and meaning, but
(02:20):
it does include countries like Brazil, so it more of
a generic term. And I believe that the Associated Press,
for instance, a lot of news outlets now opt for
Latino and Latina, so just some language notes at the
top of the podcast. Um, but first, let's kick off
this celebration just by calling out some culturally influential Hispanic women. Yeah,
(02:47):
this is coming from a couple of sources, including Time
and Yahoo. So let's kick it off with some entertainers
that we should be familiar with. We've got Christina Aguilera
of Ecuadorian descent, Sophia Vergara, who's Colombian and she's actually
the highest paid actress on TV right now. And let's
not forget America Ferrara, who in two thousand seven became
the first Latina to win an Emmy for Outstanding Lead
(03:09):
Actress in a Comedy Series. Her parents are from Honduras
um and then moving into lawmaking, we have Susanna Martinez,
who is America's first Latina governor and the first female
and current governor of New Mexico, And of course Supreme
Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who is of Puerto Rican descent. Yeah,
(03:29):
and it's worth noting even though she is not American.
Michelle Bachelet, who is the former President of Chile and
current leader of You and Women, also known as the
un Entity for gender Equality and the empowerment of women,
and a couple other notable names, and certainly these are
not all of the culturally influential Latino women that we
(03:50):
could cite, but we do want to give props to
Ellen o'chilla, who is the deputy director of the Johnson
Space Center and was the first Latina astronaut to go
into space in Yeah, that's I want to go to space,
although I feel like I would get really emotions sick.
And one woman standing at the head of a media
(04:11):
empire is Nina Taffler, who is the president of the
CBS Network and has a Puerto Rican mother. And then
finally there's Dara Torres, who is of Spanish descent and
is considered the fastest female swimmer in the US in
one twelve Olympic medals. So that is just a snapshot,
obviously of the diversity of fields in which these women
(04:34):
are making so many in roads. But we really want
to focus this podcast and our our celebration of Hispanic
Heritage Month more on the daily lives of everyday women
in the United States, because while all of those women
that we decided are of course worth celebrating, but their
(04:56):
lives are probably a lot different and a lot more affluent,
not surprising week as many our celebrities, but they do
stand and start contrast to what life is really like
for the average Hispanic woman in America, right. And so,
if we're looking at numbers UM in the US, there
are thirty point one million Hispanic adults, fourteen point four million,
(05:18):
or almost half are women. That's coming from the U
s Census Bureau. And in two thousand eight, the Pew
Research Center took a look at some of these demographics
UM and found that the picture is not always so
pretty when it comes to things like income and education.
For instance, thirty six percent of Hispanic women in the
(05:40):
US have less than a high school education, compared with
just ten percent of non Hispanic women. And then when
we look at median income for Hispanic women, it's four
hundred sixty dollars per week compared to six hundred and
fifteen dollars per week for non Hispanic women. And they
are also twice as likely to live in poverty. And
(06:02):
Hispanic women born in the US are more likely to
be in the labor force than Hispanic women who have
moved here. For reasons that we will get into in
just a little bit. Right. And those women who are
in the labor force are most likely to be in
office and administration support roles um and they are more
likely than non Hispanic women to be employed in blue
(06:25):
collar jobs like building and grounds, cleaning and maintenance, food prep,
and personal care slash service occupation type jobs. So these
kinds of inequalities in terms of educational attainment and the
wages that they're bringing home and domestic roles are the
reasons why we want to focus on something called Chicana feminism,
(06:47):
which then evolves into Latina feminism. But when we're looking
first at Chicano feminism, it's a movement in ideology that
seeks to address those inequalities that are specifically facing for
Chicano feminism women of Mexican descent, right. And it's not
(07:07):
just issues that they're facing kind of in society at large.
It's also, like we said, in within their own communities,
the issue of being almost invisible, of being being expected
to stay home. So a common definition of a chicana
is a Mexican American female raised in the US, and
it's a term that was actually reclaimed, you know, we
(07:28):
pointed out that it was you know, for a long
time a derogatory term, and it was reclaimed during the
Chicano movement of the nineteen sixties by Mexican American women
who wanted to establish social, cultural, and political identities for
themselves in America beyond kind of the deal that they've
been handed. Yeah, and and Mexican Americans have a long
(07:49):
and rich history in the United States because as early
as the US Mexico War of eighteen forty eight, for instance,
and the Mexican Revolution in nineteen ten, Mexican families were
driven to settle in the US colonized territories, including El Pasto,
San Antonio, San Diego, l A, and Santa Barbara. So
this Chicano movement out of which grows the Chicano feminist movement,
(08:13):
sparked in the nineteen sixties and was fueled by the
United farm Workers Strike and now the United farm Workers
were a group that really sought equality from Mexican American
workers agricultural workers, and was originally referred to as the
National farm Workers Association, and it was started by three
main players, Caesar Chavez, Philip Veracruz and Delores Whereta. Yes,
(08:37):
a woman started an organization um and she was Actually,
she's really fascinating to read about. She was inspired herself
by her mother's independence and entrepreneurial spirit and talks about
how her mother was so involved in the community and
while she may not have referred to herself as a
feminist or even a Chicano feminist, she was there in
(08:57):
the community, you know, volunteering and helping out. So she
was very involved. Yeah, And for fans of PBSS makers
series on Influential Women, there's a great interview with Dolora
Suerta and which she talks about her participation with the
farm Workers Association and how it was really significant that
she was a woman in the movement and also in
(09:20):
the spotlight as well. And uh, it really talks about
how it's important for women to own their accomplishments and
not be scared to raise their voice if you want
to check out that interview. Um. So, while we have
things like the United farm Workers Strike going on and
that energizing of the Chicano movement, there are women who
(09:41):
are starting to recognize not just inequalities in regard to
their ethnicity, but also inequalities with regard to their gender
roles in their own societies. And so with all of
this activism that's starting to go on. I mean, because
think about it in the context of civil rights that's
going on all across the nation. You have these women
(10:04):
in the same in the same way that you have
black women within the civil rights movement starting up their
consciousness at raising groups and things like womanism growing out
of that, you have Chicano feminism starting two well. So
it's interesting to look at the barriers that they had
to overcome to even form this movement and how those
barriers really just drove them to push right through those walls.
(10:28):
So some of those things that they were dealing with,
it was the same thing that we talked about in
our Solidarity as for White Women episode where we looked
at some African American feminists. They really were pushing against
this eurocentric feminist framework that tended to ignore differences in backgrounds.
It was, you know, a lot of uh women of
(10:48):
color at this time, we're pointing out, like, you know,
what feminism really is this kind of middle class white
woman's fight. I don't feel the same I don't come
from that same background, and my fight is different. And
they also were fighting against this embedded Marianista model of
gender relations, which centered on an acceptance of abusive male
behavior and women's subordination. Basically the idea of you know,
(11:12):
idealizing the virgin Mary and how submissive and you know,
just sweet, gentle and quiet she was. Yeah, you have
the marianism as it's referred to for the women versus
the more machismo culture that is more applied to the men.
And it's very much the dominant and subordinate within that right.
(11:34):
And so you know, there's this ideal of this virginal quiet,
subdued purity, and this focus on being a wife and
a mother. That's your job. That's that's the role that
you feel both in our family and our community in
addition to society at large. And there's been a lot
of scholarship that's actually looked into chicon of feminism, their
(11:56):
entire departments actually at colleges that are devoted to this
and not just looking at things like the marionismo and
the messicana, but also the roots of that machismo culture
as well. And and some people think that the machismo
element of Mexican culture was really a reaction against the
powerlessness that the men felt in broader American society, which
(12:20):
only reinforced on the home front, the subjugation of women.
It's all a trickling down in a way of racism
that then breeds more sexism that then, you know, cycles
into these generations of women who are really bound to
the home. And with Chicano feminism, these women were ready
(12:45):
to say, you know what, I've had enough of this
model of life. So this kind of cohesive Chicana identity
really sparked after the nine nine Chicano Youth Live Racian
Conference that sort of brought the Chicano movement together. But
out of that, in May nineteen seventy one came more
(13:08):
of the Chicano movement of saying like, okay, well we
are voices need to be heard too, and that in
May nineteen seventy one, that's when we have the Muharius
porl Raza conference, which brought together six hundred women. Yeah,
and they took a survey which was really telling of
the situation that a lot of these women were facing
(13:28):
because it found that eighty four percent of those six
enter women who were gathered so that they weren't encouraged,
for instance, to pursue professional careers and education was not
considered important among their families, it wasn't considered important for
women specifically to attain education. Similarly, eighty four percent also
(13:49):
thought that there wasn't equal pay for equal work. That
sounds familiar, and seventy two perceived racial discrimination. And also
out of that conference, they called four things like legal abortion,
equal access to education, establishment of child care centers, and
abolition of traditional marriages. And with those two last platforms,
(14:12):
the need for child care centers and abolition of traditional marriages,
you start to see how Chicano feminism is a bit
different addresses different needs than the eurocentric white feminism that
we often hear about in terms of second wave feminism.
That really hammered home gender over race, gender over race,
(14:34):
it's all about women, and we're just talking about women
rather than looking at ethnicity and class, and that was problematic, right.
So that same year of the conference, nine writer Marta
Vidal really kind of hammers home why this movement is
so important and so necessary, and she writes that the
(14:54):
oppression suffered by Chicanas is different from that suffered by
most women in this country. Because Chicana are part of
an oppressed nationality, they are subjected to the racism practiced
against Larraza, and since the overwhelming majority of Chicanas are workers,
Chicanas are also victims of the exploitation of the working class.
But in addition, Chicanas, along with the rest of women,
(15:14):
are relegated to an inferior position because of their sex. Thus,
Raza women suffer a triple form of oppression as members
of an oppressed nationality, as workers and as women, and so,
as you can hear in that quote from Marta Vidal,
the determination to not just address their needs as women,
(15:37):
but also the more specific needs as Mexican American women
who were facing these different and arguably more difficult kinds
of hindrances within society. And with that kind of determination,
Chicana feminism really laid a foundation to rethink what we
(15:59):
might normally ink of as just kind of basic feminism,
to broaden it and shift it from the eurocentric view.
In the same way that you're going to see if
you look into feminism and womanism among African American women
at the time, these are a lot of similar struggles
that are going on, and it's set effort to raise
(16:20):
their visibility as assets both within their community and also
within the population at large. That's a major hallmark of
Chicano feminism, right, And it does evolve, just like any
social movement does. It starts to evolve, and that's when
we have the outgrowth of Latina feminism, which serves as
more of an umbrella term. It's more of a coalition
(16:40):
bringing together um women from so many different backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds,
regional backgrounds, um. Although it can be challenging, as with
any label, it can be challenging to just say I'm
a Latina feminist or a Chicana feminist or I'm part
of a Latina feminist movement because you do have all
of those different backgrounds. You do have women from so
(17:02):
many different corners of the world, and so part of
why there was this breaking away from like more mainstream
feminism is because there wasn't a voice for them. But
you also have to acknowledge, well, is everybody's voice being
heard under Latina feminism too. But we're just bringing that
up to point out that there was this evolution of
(17:23):
the movement to be somewhat more inclusive. Yeah, there's been
a lot of efforts to create more of a pan
Latina coalition, building and really conceptualizing what a pan ethnic
Latina feminist movement that is inclusive would look like. And
if you read scholarship then and today, a lot of
(17:48):
times they talk about how that really is a major challenge,
not to mention still the challenge of their voices being heard,
simply because the platform for Latina feminists and fortunately it's
still not as loud as the more eurocentric whiter feminist today.
(18:08):
I say, as a European descended white feminist, um, but
if you do, we we encourage you to learn more
about this movement. And if you do want to, we
encourage you to look up Gloria and Zelda who wrote
Borderlands Leve front Arra the New Mestiza, and that's considered
(18:28):
basically the seminal Chicano feminist text. Yeah, she was a
lesbian Chicano writer whose work shows the intersectionality of things
like gender, sexuality and the social construction of racial identity.
So if you want to really dig into the theory
of Chicano feminism, definitely check out border Lands. So let's
(18:50):
take a moment before we wrap up the podcast and
talk to us a minute about Latina feminism today. I mean,
are are there voices being heard? Well? It seems to
me in in doing a lot of reading for this
that you know, women in this movement still face a
lot of the same issues that they did before, you know,
kind of being overwhelmed by the mainstream feminist movement, the
(19:14):
Eurocentric feminist movement, still hearing echoes of you know, being
a woman is more important than your race, you know,
fighting for women's rights is more important than your ethnicity,
all of that stuff. And so one woman in particular,
Julianna Britto Schwartz, who is of Brazilian descent her her
mother is Brazilian, wrote Confessions of a Complicated Latina Feminist,
(19:37):
explaining why she adopted this term Latina feminist. Yeah, she said,
I've had too many conversations with Latina who I would
consider to be incredible feminists and have had them tell
me that they feel excluded and out of place in
the feminist movement. To these women, feminist does not represent
them or the struggles that their communities face. And Schwartz
(19:58):
goes on to talk about how spending time with women
in rural Brazil even further changed her mind about how
feminism applies to Latino women right, and she talks about how,
you know, while there are feminist movers and shakers for
lack of a better term, fighting for passage of laws
protecting women against violence and and things like that, women
(20:22):
who are actually out in more rural areas aren't as
concerned with laws as they are the implementation of them
and the actual trickle down effect of being protected. And
she writes that they are fighting to break down deeply
rooted stereotypes about women's role in the home and in
the workplace just as they are, just as many women
are in America still, and she says they are less
(20:43):
concerned about legalizing abortion and more concerned with having to
drive an hour and a half from modern maternal healthcare.
And there's a Miss magazine roundtable not too long ago
with Latino feminist bloggers including Schwartz along with Sarah ENA's
Calderone and Murray Perez and Patricia Volloy, who really revealed
(21:04):
similar observations and perceptions of mainstream feminism in terms of
not fully identifying with it, and a lot talking about
how their voices aren't so much being heard because their
experience is often so different than the narratives that we
(21:29):
typically hear in you know, on the large people with
the largest Twitter followings or the mainstream blogs or whatever
it might be. Sharon, one thing that Sworts brought up
that I did think was really interesting to point out
because you don't from a from the place where we sit,
we don't often think about it this way. But she
talks about, you know, reproductive rights also being it's being
(21:53):
a choice, it's having a choice both ways. You know
a lot of people talking about the choice to have
an abortion, but she's saying a lot of women of color,
you know, face these awful stereotypes for choosing to have children.
You know, a lot of a lot of women of
color are you know, being told like, you know, are
you sure you want to have more kids? Maybe? You know,
(22:13):
maybe you shouldn't have so many children. And that's just
as much a choice as choosing not to have children.
And so there are so many different perspectives out there,
and and we wanted to bring a lot of them
to you as best we could. Yeah, And one thing
that that blogger round table really hammered home the same
(22:34):
thing when you look into the solidarity is for white
women conversation that spring up on Twitter not too long ago,
is that need for intersectionality and not just talking about it,
but really trying to put it more into practice, which
is part of the reason why we wanted to do
this podcast. I mean, obviously the personal experience CareLine that
(22:57):
you and I share, our two white women, we can't
change that. But what we can change is at least
the names that we reference and the sources that we
talk about, and the topics that we cover. So I'd
say at least our celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month and
(23:17):
talking about Latina feminism is our contribution to the conversation.
That's right. Just as we're celebrating Hispanic heritage, we're celebrating Hispanic,
Latina and Chicano feminists out there in the world as well. Yeah,
And I think that the more we can deepen our
understanding of what feminism really means, not just to us,
(23:40):
but to people who might not be like us at all,
then the better understanding that we're going to have of
our society at large, because it really I think that
everyone's definition of it really speaks to a different experience
that we need to consider. That's right, And I I,
(24:01):
for one, look forward to hearing from our listeners. From
our Latina listeners are Hispanic listeners, Um, maybe tell us
more about women, women, heroes you know that that you
have in your lives, or or writers, politicians, anyone who
who you think deserves to be mentioned. Yeah, and whether
or not you know, for Latinos or women of color
in general, whether or not that point about not identifying
(24:26):
even still with feminism because of how white and eurocentric
it still seems to be. If that's something that also
resonates with you, because I think it's an important conversation
that we all need to be having. So send us
your letters. As always. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com
is where you can write us. You can also tweet
(24:47):
us at mom Stuff podcast or hit us up on Facebook.
And we've got a couple of notes to share with
you when we come right back from this break and
now back to our letters. I have a letter here
from Alice about our Solidarity is for White Women episode,
(25:07):
which also revisited six black feminists you should know. Alice
writes as a woman of color who has issues identifying
as a feminist for many of the reasons you address
in this podcast and in the Black Feminist episode, I
find it hard to have a conversation about this with
other white women who do identify as feminists. I can't
(25:28):
tell you how many conversations I've had with women who
declared their feminists then in the same breath go on
to say something racist or more likely some sort of microaggression.
Some examples include describing their racist Halloween costume plans, explaining
that a part of the city is unsafe because it
is a historically black neighborhood. I'm tired of being forced
(25:48):
to apologize to feminists for pointing out their racism and
think that you guys could have done a better job
of discussing the specifics of why women of color today
feel excluded. It's hard because I feel like these sorts
of things are mostly anecdotal, but discussion discussing the issue
of things like derailing would have been helpful all at all.
(26:09):
I was excited to see this episode title in my
little podcast menu, and I hope that you two are
able to incorporate more viewpoints from an episodes about women
of color. So thank you, Alice. And speaking of racist
Halloween costumes, spoiler alert, we are planning by Facebook request
to do an episode on Halloween and cultural appropriation. Hooray,
(26:35):
don't dress up as a Native American white people. Well,
I have an email here from Emily and it is
in response to another listener letter that we read from
a horticulturalist who is the only woman on her team,
and she was asking for advice on how to get
along with sometimes not so nice male coworkers. And Emily
(26:57):
has a lot of experience working with in um and
specifically working with men in the military, and so she
passed along some tips. She says. One, if someone does
something that makes you uncomfortable, talk to them honestly and
respectfully and tell them that what they did made you
uncomfortable and to please stop. Take someone in the office
(27:19):
as a witness if you need to. I have done
this before and I have never had to go beyond
this level too. If this fails, make an official complaint
with the person who is in charge of the country club. Again,
maintain honesty and respect. And three, if this fails, get
a lawyer. You will be amazed how things can change
with a phrase, I need to talk to my attorney
(27:41):
about this harassment. Only say this if you will actually
go and get a lawyer. Don't bluff. Besides the psychopaths
and sociopaths in the world, most humans are very nice,
and most dudes don't realize that they might be making
you uncomfortable. The mouse poop glove incident might be even
a misguided attempt to include you their club. And as
far as your supervisor asking you if you're upset because
(28:04):
quote unquote you're on your period, I would have responded,
and have done so in the past about explaining the
fun of periodng and how awesome pap smears are and
all the other lady problems and quotes that way ladies
have that will probably shut most dudes up. Dudes aren't
usually fond of hearing about unsexy lady fluid problems. If
(28:26):
they're still listening and you haven't grossed them out, your
supervisor maybe a psychopath or sociopath, and you probably need
to find somewhere else to work. I wish you luck.
Lady horticulturalists. Oh my god, that is genius. I love that.
I'm going to use that in my life, like talking
about like now I'm not on my period. I just
(28:46):
had a speculum shoved halfway up my cervix and you know,
like pats nearing and up. I wonder I thought I'll
get him to stop that sounds great. I know I'm uncomfortable. Yeah, Kristen,
I'm watching Kristen like p We shrink into a little
ball as I talk. Pasts are only fun now they're not.
Have we done an episode on pat scores. We've talked
(29:08):
about it, maybe it's time. Well, if you would like
to send us your pets suggestions. Mom Stuff at discovery
dot com is where you can email us. You can
follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and like
us on Facebook. You can also follow us on Instagram.
Some people keep asking, hey, y'all on Instagram yet, Yes,
(29:30):
we are at stuff mom Never told You, And if
you'd like to watch our faces as well, you know
where to go. YouTube dot com, slash stuff mom Never
told You, and don't forget to subscribe for more on
this and thousands of other topics. Does it have stuff
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