March 1, 2017 • 23 mins
Why don't more women pursue science careers? Join Caroline and Cristen as they look at 4 female scientists you've probably never heard of, including Rita Levi-Montalcini and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the Reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?
From house Stop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. Today Caroline and
(00:21):
I are going to talk about something that many listeners
have requested for a while. Just pops up women in science,
science science, How they blinded us? Get it? I wish
we were wearing lab coats for this episode out of
the listeners, No, we're not true. Imagine that, listens, we
are in lab coats with beakers on the table because
(00:43):
we're gonna talk about science today. Because women in science,
although they are getting more attention these days, still there
is a gap, right And actually the Independent Women's Forum,
a research and education institution, blames it on innate differences
and aptitudes, temperament and interests between men and women. Basically,
(01:07):
it kind of sounds like the stereotype of like, well,
women just starting good at science and um. But yeah,
they claim that the gender gap in STEM, which is science, technology, engineering,
and math madics mathematics STEM courses, UM I have to
do with these brain differences. And one of the very first.
(01:29):
I think it might be. The very first episode of
Stuff Mom Never Told You was on whether or not
men and women have different brains. So we can go
back and listen to that if you like after this podcast. Um,
but at the same time, women are are good at
science and math. Yeah. Well, uh, you know, in all
(01:50):
this reading we did for this podcast, a lot of
the sources say that the numbers of men and women
interested in science and pursuing science in high school and
college about the same. It's there's not a huge difference.
It's it's not until after graduation, when maybe it's time
to pursue a career, take your career a little further,
that the numbers start to skew a little. Right. Um,
(02:11):
this is coming from the National Science Foundation in two
thousand six, fifty percent of students who enroll and graduate
courses in science or engineering are women. So obviously, while
our brains might work a little bit differently, obviously women
do just fine in STEM courses. But like you said, Caroline,
once they get into the real world, those numbers start
(02:33):
to drop. Because between two thousand and two thousand five,
only of women were employed out of school and employed
in the computer field. A leading employer of science and
engineering grads. Yeah, and numbers, numbers have jumped, they've they've
gotten better for sure. Um one percent I found was
(02:54):
that the percent of doctoral degrees awarded to women in
engineering uh IN was one percent, and in two thousand
one that jumped to eight So I feel like more
women are, you know, maybe sticking with it in school
at least. And if women stick with it, it will
pay off. Literally. This is a newer from a new
(03:16):
report came out in August from the U S. Commerce
Department that's been it's as part of a series of
reports actually that they've been doing on women and STEM
exploring why this gender gap exists. Because they want more.
The government wants more women to pursue STEM courses not
only in college but also beyond, like somehow closing off
(03:38):
that that exit ramp that seems to be happening. And
science pays because women in STEM jobs right now earned
thirty more than women in non STEM jobs. I wish
physics had made sense, I know, why aren't we a
And in addition, the gender pay gap in STEM industries
(04:00):
narrower than than in non stem sounds good to me. Yeah,
so the money's there, although the Gender Wage EPI still exists.
But the point of this episode today is talk about
women in science because they exist, and lack of role
models is one reason that some people offer for the
(04:24):
STEM gender gap. But we're gonna we're gonna offer out
some offer up some role models today and not once
that you may have heard of before. Right. Well, although
let's start with what you heard of. There are some
good ones out there that the people have heard of.
There's Murray Currey, yes, who she had a pretty steady
rise up the science latter she has pretty much always
(04:46):
been amazing. Yeah, and she won the Nobel Prize in
physics in nineteen o three, and then for a second
time she want a Nobel prizing chemistry in nineteen eleven. There, yeah, Grandma. Um,
I do have a book recommendation and two. It's one
that I have not read yet, but I've heard an
interview with the author and it sounds fascinating. It's called
Radioactive Marie and Pierre Curie, A Tale of Love and
(05:09):
Fallout by Lauren Redness. Good title, I know, maybe that'll
be my fall reading. Um. I wanted to mention Ada
Byron known as Lady Lovelace, and also daughter of poet
Lord Byron. She in eighteen forty three developed what is
regarded as the first ever computer program. Yes, well there
(05:33):
is there's another scientist more recent who I just want
to hug. I've always loved this woman, Jane Goodall. Yes,
we've all, we've all heard about her in the Chimpanzee
She went to Tanzania as a twenty three year old
to observe how champion chimpanzees interacted. Basically, she took along
a notebook and binoculars and she managed to make all
these incredible discoveries. And then, of course we've got to
mention Sally Ride, who we talked about in our episode
(05:55):
on astronaut first woman in Space. There's American woman, American woman,
a woman, that's right, I'm sorry, no harm um And
she is a physics professor at the University of California,
San Diego and then became director of California's Space Institute. Yeah,
she's written children's books about science, get the kids interested,
(06:18):
and her um company, Sally Ride Science, seeks to motivate
girls to pursue careers in stimfield. Yeah, so she would
enjoy this episode. She would Sally Ride would be on
board with what we're talking about. Sally, Hey, you're out there. Um.
But like I said, the point of today's podcast is
to offer all some names that listeners might not have
(06:38):
heard of before, right, some women who changed our world, Yes,
affected science for the better, but you know, maybe you
don't know their names. There's Rosalind Elsie Franklin. She's a
molecular biologist. She started out at an all girls school
in London, one of the few to actually offer physics
and chemistry courses. Yeah. And the reason why you might
not have heard of Rosalind Franklin's name is because two
(07:01):
guys by the name of James D. Watson and Francis
Crick stole her thunder absolutely beat her to the punch.
She did all this work on X ray diffraction techniques.
So she worked in Paris for a while and after
returning to England in nineteen fifty one, she worked at
a lab where she encountered Maurice Wilkins. Fortunately, Morris Wilkins
(07:21):
thought she was a an assistant in the lab and
she was a woman. Yeah, naturally, you know she's carrying
Martiniz around or something. I don't know. I don't know
why Anyway, he found her X ray images and showed
them to James Watson and Francis Crick. Yes, because Wilkins,
Crick and Watson, we're all working on unraveling the structure
(07:42):
of DNA, and Rosalind Franklin had taken these amazing X
ray photographs of d N A quote, the most beautiful
X ray photographs of any substance ever taken, one scientist quoted.
And so they showed, showed the guy sees incredible images
(08:02):
of DNA, and then they won the Nobel Prize in
nineteen sixty two, thanks guys, and she um well. One
of the reasons too, they think that that her work
has not been more widely recognized as such a major
contribution to understanding the structure of DNA because soon after
all of that went down, she got really sick. Yeah,
(08:24):
she got a vary in cancer and died at thirty seven, right,
very young, very young. Uh So Rosalind Franklin slewly, but
surely I think there's been more more spotlight on her
on her work. But definitely a female scientist who deserves
a lot of credit. Uh. And then we have Dorothy
Crowfoot Hodgkin, the founder of protein crystallography. Yeah, Basically, crystallography
(08:48):
is X rays that can determine the arrangement of atoms.
And she and her mentor applied this X ray diffraction
to crystals of biological substances. And I want to say
that her mentor J. D. Bernal is the person who said, uh,
who referred to Rosalind Franklin's X ray photography is the
most most beautiful of DNA. Get to see people supporting
women in science exactly, Yeah, because a lot of these
(09:10):
women as they're as they're growing up in pursuing these
scientific fields are either discouraged by their parents, especially their fathers,
are discouraged by male colleagues, or aren't paid for their work. Right,
Like one woman will talk about in a little bit
was never paid for most of her work and yet
became a Nobel Nobel Prize winner. But back to Dorothy
(09:33):
Crowfoot hodgkin Um. Her contributions included solutions to structures of
things by being able to see what they look like
using the chrystallography, so seeing the structure of things like cholesterol, penicillin,
which earned her an election as a Fellow of the
Royal Society in nineteen forty seven, and she won her
(09:54):
Nobel Prize in chemistry in ninety seven for seeing the
structure of or I guess unraveling the structure of vitamin
B twelve right. And then there was insulin. That was
her major project. Um she worked on it for thirty
four years, actually found the insulent structure in nineteen fifty
nine and went back and reevaluated in with the help
(10:14):
of computers. And it makes sense that Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin
I really like her whole name. That's saying that that
Dorothy was such a genius because she came from from
quite a family. Her dad was an archaeologist in Egypt,
and her mom was an expert on coptic tiles, and
she married an expert in African study. I would absolutely
go to their dinner party. I wouldn't be able to
(10:35):
keep up with anything they said, but I would just
sit there with my mouth wide openly sitting nod with
that with a smile on your face. Uh. And then
at the age of eighty, she finally got a visa
and traveled to the US giving talks to standing room
only crowds about insulin crystallography in its future. So these
women still working in in old age. But next up
(10:56):
is perhaps one of those underappreciated or at least under
pay scientists that we talked about today, Maria Geppert Mayor. Yeah,
she came. She also came from a very educated family.
And and you know, as opposed to some of the
other people we've talked about, you know, their fathers discouraged them,
didn't think a woman should go out and get an education,
(11:16):
especially in science. It was actually sort of understood that
she would go to university. Um. She actually her social
circle included physicist Neil's Bore and Max Born. And she
started out actually as a mathematician in school, but turned
her focus to physics. So somehow, to me hearing that,
it seems like somehow her brain got even smarter. Yeah,
(11:38):
I know, because whoa I can do I can do math.
I was fine with math in school, but physics and
I did not get along at all. Maria Geppert Mayor,
you on a genius um. But listen to this story.
So she comes to the US with her husband, also
a physicist, and continues her research even though she's not
(12:00):
being paid for it, right, and while quote unquote you know, unemployed,
she went on to produce tin papers and a textbook
and a physics textbook. Yeah. I mean, you know, I
guess if I was unemployed, I could do a lot
of cool things, do not anything to do with physics.
But still, but she was working with her husband in
collaborating with another physics professor, became a chemical physics and
(12:22):
then figured out, oh, I don't know the color of
organic molecules. Sure, why not? She went on. They moved
to Chicago, and I think she was more welcome there.
She actually, I think got a paycheck at some point
in Chicago. She worked at she was a professor in
the physics department and the Institute for Nuclear Studies, and
also worked at the Argon National Laboratory. Yeah, but she
(12:44):
did not secure full time, paid work in her field
until she was fifty three years Yeah. Can you imagine
at that time, I'm like wine and down. I'm ready
to go live on a yacht. I'm where, you know,
retire with my pat you'll definitely uh um. But then
she won the Nobel Prize in nineteen sixty three, and
(13:05):
the headline in the San Diego paper read s, d
San Diego mother wins the Nobel Prize. I mean, really,
even still we can't just give her a little bit
of credit for actually being a scientist and around right. Um,
but she developed a nuclear shell model of atomic nuclei,
so that essentially figured us out what what atomic nuclei
(13:27):
the outside of them looks like. It's there's nothing to
do with magic numbers, which I could not fully explain
to you listeners if you have any clust to what
it is that those represent the numbers of protons and
arranged in shells in the atoms nuclear Thanks Kristen. That's
not from my notes, No, not at all. How you
(13:49):
have a broad knowledge of things. Um, moving on. I
I like to save the best for last, not not
that all these women. I've been so excited about this woman. Okay,
I want you after the podcast, after you listen to this,
or while you're listening, you know, if you're on your
computer anyway, google Rita Levi montal Cini. She's still a lot.
(14:11):
She is a brain scientist who also happens to be
the oldest living Nobel laureate. The woman. Okay, have you
you know Ghostbusters when they go to the basement of
the library and there's that, um, there's that ghost, that
librarian ghost that's what she dresses like she looks so
she's a very spiffy. Well, she's very spell well, let
(14:31):
listeners google image here, because she really does look incredible.
She has an amazing quaff of shockingly w Yeah, and
this this woman, she's incredible. She her work with Stanley
Cohen led to a breakthrough in neurological science for the
discovery of nerve growth factor, a discovery that she says
is the highlight of her life. A nerve growth growth
factor is a protein that basically stimulates neural development um
(14:55):
and promotes nerve cell growth. Right. Um. She won the
Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine in nineteen eighty six
at the age of seventy seven. She's no slouchy and
she was not living on a yacht. How old does
she know? D and two and two? She's still going. Yes,
she founded the European Brain Research Institute and still goes
(15:17):
to work every day. Yeah, she still goes. She encourages
our students and while she admitted that yes, she does
encourage a lot of the female science students, she doesn't
really see a difference between men and women, especially in
their brains. Obviously, her her expertise is in neurology, and
she was quoted in the Times of London saying that
she really sees absolutely no difference between male and female
(15:39):
brains and attributes a lot of our behavior to environment
and again it's it's nature and nurtures. Well. In the Times,
she also is quoted as saying that we're all doomed
because in all of her years of brain research. You know,
she talks about the two hemispheres of the brain. One
quote unquote ancient rules our emotions and instincts. The other
(16:02):
one is more modern, where we use rational thoughts to
figure out our problems. And she says that the world's
problems today, terrorism, fundamentalism, et cetera, can be blamed on
people using their ancient, emotional instinctual brain too often. So
you've become too emotionally driven and are driving ourselves crazy. Yeah,
(16:24):
listen to this quote. She says, it was the part
of our brains which got us down from trees. But
it is the cause of all the disasters and the
cause of great danger to our planet today. It is
taking the human race towards extinction. The end is already
at hand. Oh yeah, that sounds a little scary. I
know it's freaking me out. But she I also like
(16:45):
her key to longevity, which is really never sleeping and
only eating one meal a day. She eats, she eats lunch,
and she says maybe an orange or a bowl of
soup in the evening, but that's it, and she works
even food don't interest her. I I would not, I
would be so cranky. I know, I don't know how
my I need food to my brain to work better.
(17:08):
I know, but I mean, I'm saying this about a
brain expert. So maybe she knows something. She's a hundred
and two. She figured something out. I guess I'm just
gonna have to sacrifice longevity for a cheeseburger. Seems that
she won a Nobel prize. She's probably figured out a
lot of things. The couple and she was also never
married ye that time, exactly the same father who did
(17:30):
not want her to pursue science education. She saw us
dominating the family, and she said she didn't want to
play second fiddle to a man, so she never married. Yeah.
She said that really the only difference between men and
women is that are while our brains are exactly the same,
men have just been able to physically overpower women. Mm hmm,
another podcast for another time. Indeed, so we've talked about
(17:54):
these four and obviously there are so many more, and
I would invite listeners to send in um any need
female scientists they'd like. It's to highlight in later episodes
in the listener males segments. But before we sign off,
the question is how do we how do we support
women in science better? Right? You talked about role models
(18:14):
earlier and uh in a column that appeared in The
Guardian in July, doctors Natalie Pedarelli and I hope I
don't butcher this woman's name, Syrian Syrian Sumner say that
the problem isn't necessarily attracting girls and women to scientific fields,
it's just keeping them there, which you know, we touched
on earlier. They attribute this to sort of a disconnect
(18:35):
between um men and women family life. Women are sort
of more expected, they argue to make compromises as far
as career and family's concern. Yes, at off ramp, and
especially if they're in academia. I can understand that it
probably would be a challenge to try to, you know,
chase down tenure, publishing papers, constantly doing research in addition
(18:59):
to teaching. Obviously, academia is one small part of what
you can do in STEM fields, but that might be
another part. Even just educating women about all the opportunities
available to them that listen up pay that more than
non stem fields. I don't think I would be successful. Hey,
(19:20):
you know what, Caroline stopped buying into the stereotype threat. Okay,
it's seven years of not being good at science, but
you know that's okay. I guess we can learn. And
there are organizations out there, like the Association for Women
in Science, which was founded in ninete to fight for
(19:41):
equity in in stem and close that gender gap. But
over and over again, the research has shown that the
change probably needs to happen in the classrooms early on. Right, UM,
we've talked about gender roles, gender stereotypes, and priming before UM.
The OR, an association of university women, released a report
(20:02):
in that said women are shaped by their learning environments.
They found that when teachers before a test said that
boys and girls perform equally on math tests, the girls
did better. They they did perform more equally. So encourage
girls to do better. Yeah, breakdown, break down the stereotypes,
because if half of those stem degrees are going to women.
(20:26):
Obviously we can do just fine science of that anyway.
Female scientists out there, I know there are a lot
of you listening because a lot of you have emailed
in requesting this topic. Let us know what what do
you think about being a woman in science? Other female
scientists that we should toss out there? And did anyone
try to discourage you from pursuing scientific career? I mean,
(20:47):
I know a lot of these women we talked about
whose families discouraged them were from way back when. But
I mean, did your family look at you cross side
when you said you didn't want to go after an
English degree you wanted to be a scientist? Scientist? Let
us know. Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff
works dot com and we got a couple of emails
here in response to our two podcasts exploring gender and height,
(21:10):
One from a men, one from a woman. Who would
you like to hear from first? Caroline? Ladies first? That's
ladies first. Sure this comes from Diana and she says,
I'm five eleven, so I get remarks about my height
a lot. I'm a teller at a bank, but we're
provided with high stools to sit on while we work.
(21:31):
They boost up the shorter tellers, but they make me shorter.
So I always stand when people are at my window.
People say you must be on the step stool back there.
I just smile and say, no, I'm really this tall.
My husband is six three, so I'm looking forward to
having tall children. And my dating experience, I've found that
some men are intimidated by tall women. I am white,
but white men have never approached me. I had a
(21:53):
white male coworker tell me once you're pretty, you're just
too tall. However, he doesn't seem to bother men of
other races. It's an interesting observation. It is interesting. Um
Adam writes to us about height as well. He says
that he has over six feet and I was wondering
why you didn't address the giant stereotype with tall men.
Although short men are viewed as more aggressive, tall men
(22:16):
have negative views associated with them, as evidenced in David
and Goliath, Jack and the Beanstalk, and of Mice and Men.
Men of stature have been throughout history and literature viewed
as intimidating, awkward, and a tad, dumb and sometimes arrogant,
like a bully. I know this is better than being
viewed like Joe Pesci characters for being short. I still
(22:36):
find I have to contend with stereotypes and on occasion
risk being turned down for something in favor of someone
viewed as more of an underdog joint stereotype. Yeah, I
mean there's on either side of the spectrum. If you're
extremely taller extremely short, I can imagine that there are
stereotypes a plenty. Sure, So, if you have any thoughts
to send our way again, our email addresses mom Stuff
(22:58):
at how stuff works Com. You can also head over
to Facebook find us there, and also follow us on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. And lastly, during the week
you can read the blog It's stuff Mom Never told
You from how Stuff works dot com. Be sure to
(23:19):
check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
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(23:40):
It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the Reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?
From house Stop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. Today Caroline and
(00:21):
I are going to talk about something that many listeners
have requested for a while. Just pops up women in science,
science science, How they blinded us? Get it? I wish
we were wearing lab coats for this episode out of
the listeners, No, we're not true. Imagine that, listens, we
are in lab coats with beakers on the table because
(00:43):
we're gonna talk about science today. Because women in science,
although they are getting more attention these days, still there
is a gap, right And actually the Independent Women's Forum,
a research and education institution, blames it on innate differences
and aptitudes, temperament and interests between men and women. Basically,
(01:07):
it kind of sounds like the stereotype of like, well,
women just starting good at science and um. But yeah,
they claim that the gender gap in STEM, which is science, technology, engineering,
and math madics mathematics STEM courses, UM I have to
do with these brain differences. And one of the very first.
(01:29):
I think it might be. The very first episode of
Stuff Mom Never Told You was on whether or not
men and women have different brains. So we can go
back and listen to that if you like after this podcast. Um,
but at the same time, women are are good at
science and math. Yeah. Well, uh, you know, in all
(01:50):
this reading we did for this podcast, a lot of
the sources say that the numbers of men and women
interested in science and pursuing science in high school and
college about the same. It's there's not a huge difference.
It's it's not until after graduation, when maybe it's time
to pursue a career, take your career a little further,
that the numbers start to skew a little. Right. Um,
(02:11):
this is coming from the National Science Foundation in two
thousand six, fifty percent of students who enroll and graduate
courses in science or engineering are women. So obviously, while
our brains might work a little bit differently, obviously women
do just fine in STEM courses. But like you said, Caroline,
once they get into the real world, those numbers start
(02:33):
to drop. Because between two thousand and two thousand five,
only of women were employed out of school and employed
in the computer field. A leading employer of science and
engineering grads. Yeah, and numbers, numbers have jumped, they've they've
gotten better for sure. Um one percent I found was
(02:54):
that the percent of doctoral degrees awarded to women in
engineering uh IN was one percent, and in two thousand
one that jumped to eight So I feel like more
women are, you know, maybe sticking with it in school
at least. And if women stick with it, it will
pay off. Literally. This is a newer from a new
(03:16):
report came out in August from the U S. Commerce
Department that's been it's as part of a series of
reports actually that they've been doing on women and STEM
exploring why this gender gap exists. Because they want more.
The government wants more women to pursue STEM courses not
only in college but also beyond, like somehow closing off
(03:38):
that that exit ramp that seems to be happening. And
science pays because women in STEM jobs right now earned
thirty more than women in non STEM jobs. I wish
physics had made sense, I know, why aren't we a
And in addition, the gender pay gap in STEM industries
(04:00):
narrower than than in non stem sounds good to me. Yeah,
so the money's there, although the Gender Wage EPI still exists.
But the point of this episode today is talk about
women in science because they exist, and lack of role
models is one reason that some people offer for the
(04:24):
STEM gender gap. But we're gonna we're gonna offer out
some offer up some role models today and not once
that you may have heard of before. Right. Well, although
let's start with what you heard of. There are some
good ones out there that the people have heard of.
There's Murray Currey, yes, who she had a pretty steady
rise up the science latter she has pretty much always
(04:46):
been amazing. Yeah, and she won the Nobel Prize in
physics in nineteen o three, and then for a second
time she want a Nobel prizing chemistry in nineteen eleven. There, yeah, Grandma. Um,
I do have a book recommendation and two. It's one
that I have not read yet, but I've heard an
interview with the author and it sounds fascinating. It's called
Radioactive Marie and Pierre Curie, A Tale of Love and
(05:09):
Fallout by Lauren Redness. Good title, I know, maybe that'll
be my fall reading. Um. I wanted to mention Ada
Byron known as Lady Lovelace, and also daughter of poet
Lord Byron. She in eighteen forty three developed what is
regarded as the first ever computer program. Yes, well there
(05:33):
is there's another scientist more recent who I just want
to hug. I've always loved this woman, Jane Goodall. Yes,
we've all, we've all heard about her in the Chimpanzee
She went to Tanzania as a twenty three year old
to observe how champion chimpanzees interacted. Basically, she took along
a notebook and binoculars and she managed to make all
these incredible discoveries. And then, of course we've got to
mention Sally Ride, who we talked about in our episode
(05:55):
on astronaut first woman in Space. There's American woman, American woman,
a woman, that's right, I'm sorry, no harm um And
she is a physics professor at the University of California,
San Diego and then became director of California's Space Institute. Yeah,
she's written children's books about science, get the kids interested,
(06:18):
and her um company, Sally Ride Science, seeks to motivate
girls to pursue careers in stimfield. Yeah, so she would
enjoy this episode. She would Sally Ride would be on
board with what we're talking about. Sally, Hey, you're out there. Um.
But like I said, the point of today's podcast is
to offer all some names that listeners might not have
(06:38):
heard of before, right, some women who changed our world, Yes,
affected science for the better, but you know, maybe you
don't know their names. There's Rosalind Elsie Franklin. She's a
molecular biologist. She started out at an all girls school
in London, one of the few to actually offer physics
and chemistry courses. Yeah. And the reason why you might
not have heard of Rosalind Franklin's name is because two
(07:01):
guys by the name of James D. Watson and Francis
Crick stole her thunder absolutely beat her to the punch.
She did all this work on X ray diffraction techniques.
So she worked in Paris for a while and after
returning to England in nineteen fifty one, she worked at
a lab where she encountered Maurice Wilkins. Fortunately, Morris Wilkins
(07:21):
thought she was a an assistant in the lab and
she was a woman. Yeah, naturally, you know she's carrying
Martiniz around or something. I don't know. I don't know
why Anyway, he found her X ray images and showed
them to James Watson and Francis Crick. Yes, because Wilkins,
Crick and Watson, we're all working on unraveling the structure
(07:42):
of DNA, and Rosalind Franklin had taken these amazing X
ray photographs of d N A quote, the most beautiful
X ray photographs of any substance ever taken, one scientist quoted.
And so they showed, showed the guy sees incredible images
(08:02):
of DNA, and then they won the Nobel Prize in
nineteen sixty two, thanks guys, and she um well. One
of the reasons too, they think that that her work
has not been more widely recognized as such a major
contribution to understanding the structure of DNA because soon after
all of that went down, she got really sick. Yeah,
(08:24):
she got a vary in cancer and died at thirty seven, right,
very young, very young. Uh So Rosalind Franklin slewly, but
surely I think there's been more more spotlight on her
on her work. But definitely a female scientist who deserves
a lot of credit. Uh. And then we have Dorothy
Crowfoot Hodgkin, the founder of protein crystallography. Yeah, Basically, crystallography
(08:48):
is X rays that can determine the arrangement of atoms.
And she and her mentor applied this X ray diffraction
to crystals of biological substances. And I want to say
that her mentor J. D. Bernal is the person who said, uh,
who referred to Rosalind Franklin's X ray photography is the
most most beautiful of DNA. Get to see people supporting
women in science exactly, Yeah, because a lot of these
(09:10):
women as they're as they're growing up in pursuing these
scientific fields are either discouraged by their parents, especially their fathers,
are discouraged by male colleagues, or aren't paid for their work. Right,
Like one woman will talk about in a little bit
was never paid for most of her work and yet
became a Nobel Nobel Prize winner. But back to Dorothy
(09:33):
Crowfoot hodgkin Um. Her contributions included solutions to structures of
things by being able to see what they look like
using the chrystallography, so seeing the structure of things like cholesterol, penicillin,
which earned her an election as a Fellow of the
Royal Society in nineteen forty seven, and she won her
(09:54):
Nobel Prize in chemistry in ninety seven for seeing the
structure of or I guess unraveling the structure of vitamin
B twelve right. And then there was insulin. That was
her major project. Um she worked on it for thirty
four years, actually found the insulent structure in nineteen fifty
nine and went back and reevaluated in with the help
(10:14):
of computers. And it makes sense that Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin
I really like her whole name. That's saying that that
Dorothy was such a genius because she came from from
quite a family. Her dad was an archaeologist in Egypt,
and her mom was an expert on coptic tiles, and
she married an expert in African study. I would absolutely
go to their dinner party. I wouldn't be able to
(10:35):
keep up with anything they said, but I would just
sit there with my mouth wide openly sitting nod with
that with a smile on your face. Uh. And then
at the age of eighty, she finally got a visa
and traveled to the US giving talks to standing room
only crowds about insulin crystallography in its future. So these
women still working in in old age. But next up
(10:56):
is perhaps one of those underappreciated or at least under
pay scientists that we talked about today, Maria Geppert Mayor. Yeah,
she came. She also came from a very educated family.
And and you know, as opposed to some of the
other people we've talked about, you know, their fathers discouraged them,
didn't think a woman should go out and get an education,
(11:16):
especially in science. It was actually sort of understood that
she would go to university. Um. She actually her social
circle included physicist Neil's Bore and Max Born. And she
started out actually as a mathematician in school, but turned
her focus to physics. So somehow, to me hearing that,
it seems like somehow her brain got even smarter. Yeah,
(11:38):
I know, because whoa I can do I can do math.
I was fine with math in school, but physics and
I did not get along at all. Maria Geppert Mayor,
you on a genius um. But listen to this story.
So she comes to the US with her husband, also
a physicist, and continues her research even though she's not
(12:00):
being paid for it, right, and while quote unquote you know, unemployed,
she went on to produce tin papers and a textbook
and a physics textbook. Yeah. I mean, you know, I
guess if I was unemployed, I could do a lot
of cool things, do not anything to do with physics.
But still, but she was working with her husband in
collaborating with another physics professor, became a chemical physics and
(12:22):
then figured out, oh, I don't know the color of
organic molecules. Sure, why not? She went on. They moved
to Chicago, and I think she was more welcome there.
She actually, I think got a paycheck at some point
in Chicago. She worked at she was a professor in
the physics department and the Institute for Nuclear Studies, and
also worked at the Argon National Laboratory. Yeah, but she
(12:44):
did not secure full time, paid work in her field
until she was fifty three years Yeah. Can you imagine
at that time, I'm like wine and down. I'm ready
to go live on a yacht. I'm where, you know,
retire with my pat you'll definitely uh um. But then
she won the Nobel Prize in nineteen sixty three, and
(13:05):
the headline in the San Diego paper read s, d
San Diego mother wins the Nobel Prize. I mean, really,
even still we can't just give her a little bit
of credit for actually being a scientist and around right. Um,
but she developed a nuclear shell model of atomic nuclei,
so that essentially figured us out what what atomic nuclei
(13:27):
the outside of them looks like. It's there's nothing to
do with magic numbers, which I could not fully explain
to you listeners if you have any clust to what
it is that those represent the numbers of protons and
arranged in shells in the atoms nuclear Thanks Kristen. That's
not from my notes, No, not at all. How you
(13:49):
have a broad knowledge of things. Um, moving on. I
I like to save the best for last, not not
that all these women. I've been so excited about this woman. Okay,
I want you after the podcast, after you listen to this,
or while you're listening, you know, if you're on your
computer anyway, google Rita Levi montal Cini. She's still a lot.
(14:11):
She is a brain scientist who also happens to be
the oldest living Nobel laureate. The woman. Okay, have you
you know Ghostbusters when they go to the basement of
the library and there's that, um, there's that ghost, that
librarian ghost that's what she dresses like she looks so
she's a very spiffy. Well, she's very spell well, let
(14:31):
listeners google image here, because she really does look incredible.
She has an amazing quaff of shockingly w Yeah, and
this this woman, she's incredible. She her work with Stanley
Cohen led to a breakthrough in neurological science for the
discovery of nerve growth factor, a discovery that she says
is the highlight of her life. A nerve growth growth
factor is a protein that basically stimulates neural development um
(14:55):
and promotes nerve cell growth. Right. Um. She won the
Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine in nineteen eighty six
at the age of seventy seven. She's no slouchy and
she was not living on a yacht. How old does
she know? D and two and two? She's still going. Yes,
she founded the European Brain Research Institute and still goes
(15:17):
to work every day. Yeah, she still goes. She encourages
our students and while she admitted that yes, she does
encourage a lot of the female science students, she doesn't
really see a difference between men and women, especially in
their brains. Obviously, her her expertise is in neurology, and
she was quoted in the Times of London saying that
she really sees absolutely no difference between male and female
(15:39):
brains and attributes a lot of our behavior to environment
and again it's it's nature and nurtures. Well. In the Times,
she also is quoted as saying that we're all doomed
because in all of her years of brain research. You know,
she talks about the two hemispheres of the brain. One
quote unquote ancient rules our emotions and instincts. The other
(16:02):
one is more modern, where we use rational thoughts to
figure out our problems. And she says that the world's
problems today, terrorism, fundamentalism, et cetera, can be blamed on
people using their ancient, emotional instinctual brain too often. So
you've become too emotionally driven and are driving ourselves crazy. Yeah,
(16:24):
listen to this quote. She says, it was the part
of our brains which got us down from trees. But
it is the cause of all the disasters and the
cause of great danger to our planet today. It is
taking the human race towards extinction. The end is already
at hand. Oh yeah, that sounds a little scary. I
know it's freaking me out. But she I also like
(16:45):
her key to longevity, which is really never sleeping and
only eating one meal a day. She eats, she eats lunch,
and she says maybe an orange or a bowl of
soup in the evening, but that's it, and she works
even food don't interest her. I I would not, I
would be so cranky. I know, I don't know how
my I need food to my brain to work better.
(17:08):
I know, but I mean, I'm saying this about a
brain expert. So maybe she knows something. She's a hundred
and two. She figured something out. I guess I'm just
gonna have to sacrifice longevity for a cheeseburger. Seems that
she won a Nobel prize. She's probably figured out a
lot of things. The couple and she was also never
married ye that time, exactly the same father who did
(17:30):
not want her to pursue science education. She saw us
dominating the family, and she said she didn't want to
play second fiddle to a man, so she never married. Yeah.
She said that really the only difference between men and
women is that are while our brains are exactly the same,
men have just been able to physically overpower women. Mm hmm,
another podcast for another time. Indeed, so we've talked about
(17:54):
these four and obviously there are so many more, and
I would invite listeners to send in um any need
female scientists they'd like. It's to highlight in later episodes
in the listener males segments. But before we sign off,
the question is how do we how do we support
women in science better? Right? You talked about role models
(18:14):
earlier and uh in a column that appeared in The
Guardian in July, doctors Natalie Pedarelli and I hope I
don't butcher this woman's name, Syrian Syrian Sumner say that
the problem isn't necessarily attracting girls and women to scientific fields,
it's just keeping them there, which you know, we touched
on earlier. They attribute this to sort of a disconnect
(18:35):
between um men and women family life. Women are sort
of more expected, they argue to make compromises as far
as career and family's concern. Yes, at off ramp, and
especially if they're in academia. I can understand that it
probably would be a challenge to try to, you know,
chase down tenure, publishing papers, constantly doing research in addition
(18:59):
to teaching. Obviously, academia is one small part of what
you can do in STEM fields, but that might be
another part. Even just educating women about all the opportunities
available to them that listen up pay that more than
non stem fields. I don't think I would be successful. Hey,
(19:20):
you know what, Caroline stopped buying into the stereotype threat. Okay,
it's seven years of not being good at science, but
you know that's okay. I guess we can learn. And
there are organizations out there, like the Association for Women
in Science, which was founded in ninete to fight for
(19:41):
equity in in stem and close that gender gap. But
over and over again, the research has shown that the
change probably needs to happen in the classrooms early on. Right, UM,
we've talked about gender roles, gender stereotypes, and priming before UM.
The OR, an association of university women, released a report
(20:02):
in that said women are shaped by their learning environments.
They found that when teachers before a test said that
boys and girls perform equally on math tests, the girls
did better. They they did perform more equally. So encourage
girls to do better. Yeah, breakdown, break down the stereotypes,
because if half of those stem degrees are going to women.
(20:26):
Obviously we can do just fine science of that anyway.
Female scientists out there, I know there are a lot
of you listening because a lot of you have emailed
in requesting this topic. Let us know what what do
you think about being a woman in science? Other female
scientists that we should toss out there? And did anyone
try to discourage you from pursuing scientific career? I mean,
(20:47):
I know a lot of these women we talked about
whose families discouraged them were from way back when. But
I mean, did your family look at you cross side
when you said you didn't want to go after an
English degree you wanted to be a scientist? Scientist? Let
us know. Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff
works dot com and we got a couple of emails
here in response to our two podcasts exploring gender and height,
(21:10):
One from a men, one from a woman. Who would
you like to hear from first? Caroline? Ladies first? That's
ladies first. Sure this comes from Diana and she says,
I'm five eleven, so I get remarks about my height
a lot. I'm a teller at a bank, but we're
provided with high stools to sit on while we work.
(21:31):
They boost up the shorter tellers, but they make me shorter.
So I always stand when people are at my window.
People say you must be on the step stool back there.
I just smile and say, no, I'm really this tall.
My husband is six three, so I'm looking forward to
having tall children. And my dating experience, I've found that
some men are intimidated by tall women. I am white,
but white men have never approached me. I had a
(21:53):
white male coworker tell me once you're pretty, you're just
too tall. However, he doesn't seem to bother men of
other races. It's an interesting observation. It is interesting. Um
Adam writes to us about height as well. He says
that he has over six feet and I was wondering
why you didn't address the giant stereotype with tall men.
Although short men are viewed as more aggressive, tall men
(22:16):
have negative views associated with them, as evidenced in David
and Goliath, Jack and the Beanstalk, and of Mice and Men.
Men of stature have been throughout history and literature viewed
as intimidating, awkward, and a tad, dumb and sometimes arrogant,
like a bully. I know this is better than being
viewed like Joe Pesci characters for being short. I still
(22:36):
find I have to contend with stereotypes and on occasion
risk being turned down for something in favor of someone
viewed as more of an underdog joint stereotype. Yeah, I
mean there's on either side of the spectrum. If you're
extremely taller extremely short, I can imagine that there are
stereotypes a plenty. Sure, So, if you have any thoughts
to send our way again, our email addresses mom Stuff
(22:58):
at how stuff works Com. You can also head over
to Facebook find us there, and also follow us on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. And lastly, during the week
you can read the blog It's stuff Mom Never told
You from how Stuff works dot com. Be sure to
(23:19):
check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The How Stuff Works
I Fine app has a ride. Download it today on iTunes,
brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
(23:40):
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