Complex PTSD and #MeToo

A & B talk about complex PTSD and mental health during the age of #MeToo.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, this is Annie and this is Bridget and you're
listening to stuff I'll never told you. So once again
we gotta start off with the trigger warning for this one,
because today we are talking about another part of me too,

(00:26):
and just in general, we're talking about complex PTSD and
in the age of me too, how to navigate that
if that is a trigger for you and then you're
just being overwhelmed almost everywhere, but especially in social media
and things like that with triggers. And another thing we
have to say at the top is we are not doctors,

(00:47):
are therapist at all. So hopefully this is informative, but
it is no replacement for seeing a professional. Yes, we
are not doctors. If you need to see a profess national,
you should try to do that. Um. We want to
give you resources, advice, make sure that you know that
you're not alone, but we cannot replace an actual professional. No.

(01:11):
And a lot of you have written in about this
and about sort of your struggles with it, um and
how it makes you makes you feel not being able
to engage. So yeah, we thought we'd talked about it.
And I think when a lot of us think of PTSD,
we think of veterans war veterans, And there's an episode

(01:35):
that you and Emily did bridget around UM suicide and
female veterans. Yeah, I actually would really encourage even if
you're not a veteran. I learned so much about how
PTSD is different for women on the research for that episode,
So that's something that you're interested in. Definitely check it out. Yeah,
for sure, UM and a lot of us probably have

(01:58):
a general idea of what post traumatic stress disorder is,
but um, what is complex. PTSD are sometimes as it's
known c PTSD. But before we get into that, let
us start with a quick rundown of PTSD. So eighty
to eighty five per cent of folks who experience a

(02:19):
traumatic event are estimated to work through it naturally by
talking to people, are by grieving. But it's when people
don't talk about it, when they avoid it altogether, symptoms
develop and hang around, leading to post traumatic stress disorder.
PTSD is a trauma or stress related disorder resulting from

(02:39):
a traumatic event, and the symptoms are divided into four clusters.
One re experiencing so nightmares, flashbacks, intense distressing feelings when
you remember the event of setting thoughts or feelings about
the event, are having a physical stress response when you
are reminded of the event, and an out about flashbacks

(03:01):
is visual is not the only type. There's also somatic
that's physically reliving a pain or emotional emotionally reliving something
like very vividly emotionally reliving something. Yeah, I feel like
when we talk about things like this emotionally reliving something like,
people think that that is not an actual like I can.

(03:21):
I can imagine someone saying, oh, that's not a real
side effect, that's not a real symptom, but it can
be very real. I've seen with my own eyes people
who are in an experience that reminds them of something
that was traumatic for them kind of physically and emotionally
relive it as if they're you know, in it in
that moment. And it's no joke. Like I think it's
something that is easy to discount, but it's really no joke, No,

(03:44):
not at all. Um. The second cluster of symptoms is
called avoidance, and these manifests in ways like avoiding anything
that might remind you of the event, and that could
be people, places, thoughts, conversations, topics, anything, all of the above.
You might go out of your way to stay busy
to keep yourself from remembering our dwelling. Third is hyper arousal,

(04:04):
which is basically your keyed up all the time. You're
always on edge, You're experiencing difficulties sleeping, having outbursts or
general irritability, not able to concentrate, being easily startled, or jumping.
And the last is negative thoughts are beliefs, which is
pretty self explanatory but includes things like not being able
to remember the traumatic event clearly, lots of interest in things,

(04:27):
feelings of isolation, difficulty feeling anything positive, and feeling like
your life may suddenly end. So to be clear, most
people don't actually exhibit all of these symptoms all at once,
but they do have a few from each of these clusters,
and untreated PTSD can lead to a whole host of
negative things, eating disorders, substance abuse or disorders, anxiety disorders,

(04:48):
or major depression. Yeah, and it's pretty common, to affecting
eight million people of all ages in the United States.
Women are two to three times more likely to develop
it than men, tend to to women compared to five
to six percent of men, and studies are ongoing as
to why that is, and theories range from biological to
psychological UM. Other researchers point out the increased likelihood that

(05:11):
women will be exposed to a traumatic event like sexual
assault at a younger age. The earlier in life of
trauma takes place, the greater the impact and UM. The
types of trauma associated with PTSD UM and that last
maybe a longer period of time, are perpetrated by people
close to them. That might be one of the reasons
women are more likely to develop PTSD than men. Others

(05:35):
say that because women are twice as likely to develop
depression or anxiety disorders, it puts them more at risk
to developing PTSD after a traumatic event. It's also possible
men don't report as much are that they display symptoms differently.
Women who experienced abuse develop PTSD at a ratio of
seventy four to three compared to women who have not. Okay,

(05:57):
so that is PTSD. Well, let's get into complex PTSD.
The main difference between PTSD and c PTSD is that
the causes of PTSD, like say a hurricane or a
car accident, usually have a time limited duration. C PTSD doesn't.
A person dealing with c PTSD experiences chronic trauma lasting

(06:21):
months or maybe years at a time, and usually presents
additional symptoms alongside the ones you see with traditional PTSD.
So I had actually never heard of CPSD, but it
makes so much sense, Like if you're someone who has
dealt with something that was a longer term trauma and
not just sort of a like at one time time

(06:41):
limited experience, it makes sense that your symptoms and your reaction,
both emotional, mentally, physiologically, all of that would be different. Um.
Some of the particular circumstances that can lead to CPSD
are used with things that involve captivity or a situation
where one person has control over the other. These are
things like being a prisoner of war, concentration camps, forced

(07:01):
non consensual sex work, or child exploitation, long term child
abuse and that's physical emotional or sexual, or long term
domestic abuse, which also can be physical, emotional or sexual. Yes,
and UM. C PTSD is also sometimes called disorders of
extreme stress not otherwise specified or does NOS, or in
the case of children and adolescents, developmental traumatic disorder and

(07:25):
kind of sort of maybe one of the reasons you
haven't heard of it, Bridget, is that it's relatively new.
The idea that we needed a new diagnosis other than
PTSD to describe the experience of people dealing with chronic
trauma was first proposed by Harvard's doctor Judith Herman. It
wasn't added as a separate diagnosis to the d s

(07:45):
MB after d d s MB four field tests found
it shared the same diagnostic criteria with PTSD. Is mentioned
in the d s m V, but doesn't have its
own entry. Also, um it does not address the cultural
variance when it comes to PTSD, which was a problem
pointed out in earlier editions. Nevertheless, a lot of professionals
believe it might need to be treated a little differently

(08:08):
c PTSD and believe that a misdiagnosis of PTSD or
maybe even a personality disorder will result in an incomplete
or incorrect treatment plan. Well, that makes so much sense because,
like you started the show talking about, people have issues
with PTSD when they're when they're traumas on their pain
go on dealt with and you're not talking to someone

(08:30):
when you're not seeing a therapist. And so if you
finally actually get to a point where you're talking to
someone to go and then have them say, oh, it's
PTSD not CPSD, Like that would be very problematic to
finally you get to a place where you think I
can talk to somebody and then have your issue be

(08:51):
misdiagnosed in that way or have them say, oh, you
actually have this personality disorder or whatever. Um. It almost
it would almost make the process that talking to someone
seem worthless in a kind of way. I would imagine, Yeah,
it's difficult in the first place to take that step.
And also not too many people specialize in it. So

(09:14):
since it is sort of new, there aren't a lot
of places you can go if you're looking online and
you suspect that this is what you're dealing with. There
aren't too many doctors or therapists you'll find that specialized
in it to be transparent. I was diagnosed to see
PTSD last year. Um, and it's funny the week that

(09:36):
I was diagnosed it was that was when it was
announced that like PTSD was going to be taken off insurance.
And I remember, like I just had to go home
and just like sit and try to stay calm, and
then I had to come back and record podcast. Um.

(09:58):
But it's it is a long, long battle and for
me at least you can think you've dealt with it,
and then something will happen and it just all comes back.
So my heart goes out to the listeners who have

(10:18):
written in UM and I understand how hard, how hard
it can be, and uh yeah, just just know that
there are options out there for you, and we will
be talking about some of those. But first, UM, so
the symptoms that separate c PTSD from PTSD. These could

(10:41):
include difficulty regulating your emotions UM and this could present
to suicidal thoughts. Explosive anger are a sadness that just
stays with you UM. Difficulty with certain aspects of consciousness
which could result in forgetting are a living traumatic events
or feelings of its association from one's body, poor self perception,

(11:04):
strong feelings of guilt, shame, helplessness, stigma, feeling like you're
different from everyone else, distorted perception when it comes to
the perpetrator, attributing them with total power, are becoming completely
preoccupied with them or revenge. Essentially, they just dominate your thoughts. Uh.
It impacts your current relationships as well. You might isolate

(11:24):
yourself because you feel distressful, or you might constantly be
looking out for a rescuer. And lastly, you might experience
a loss of meaning, our faith or whatever it is
that a system in your life um or perhaps you'll
just feel hopeless or overwhelmed with despair or all the above.
So something that's really interesting to note is that from

(11:44):
a biological standpoint, the cause is unknown, but studies and
animals show that trauma impacts the parts of the brain
related to memory and stress response. Researchers theorize that it's
the body's way of trying to make sure the same
thing doesn't happen again by reminding the survivor of the
event and keeping I'm hyper vigilant. Some researchers even think
that it might be genetic and that increased risk factors
include a family history of anxiety or depression, or lifestyle

(12:08):
factors like having a dangerous job. So some of these
researchers even sort of sort of think, you know, this
is your body's way or your brain's way of saying, hey,
be on alert because X y Z traumatic dangerous thing
happened in the past, So never relax, never let your
guard down, never feel okay, always be vigilance it doesn't

(12:29):
happen again. Yeah, it's kind of similar to the thing, um,
what is it called paper tigers? Where back when our ancestors,
if you saw a tiger, like your brain would recognize
patterns where they weren't there. So you're always going to
be afraid of maybe perhaps a rare event. But now
we don't have tigers, but we're still making these patterns

(12:49):
and seeing paper tigers. It's kind of like that, except
the thing really did happen to you, and your brain
is always just like never again amped up trying to
keep it from happening. Um. And it can be tricky
to properly diagnosed c PTSD because survivors might avoid talking
to professionals about the trauma, either because it's too painful
or difficult. On top of that, they might use on

(13:12):
healthy coping mechanisms like alcohol and or self harming. And
sometimes survivors are assumed to be of quote weak character
and then blamed for the abuse they endured, which is horrible,
that's awful. We really have to I mean, that's I
think a cultural change that we really have to get
rid of this attitude that if something happens to you,

(13:34):
you're weak, you're stupid, you're not strong, and that that
that is the cycle that people get stuck in or
they don't talk about these things. Yeah. On one side
of my family, Um, there's definitely an attitude of if
you have to go to therapy, you're weak. On the

(13:54):
other side, it's the complete opposite, like going to therapy
if you need it. But um, that that attitude I
think is not healthy, not correct. Another thing worth mentioning
is that people with CPTSD might seek treatment years after
the traumatic experiences have ended, because it does stick around,

(14:14):
and I think the average is like ten years later
people people. Yeah, yeah, so it sticks around and sometimes
it just happens later, like it's a delayed response. So
that's kind of an overview of what it is. But
now we're going to talk about having c PTSD in

(14:39):
the age of Me Too. But first we're going to
stop for a quick break for word from our sponsor,
and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So while the conversation
started by me Too has been a good thing, it

(15:00):
can be really triggering for c PTSD survivors and others
too when the trauma behind it is something related like
sexual assault. Of sexual assault victims experience PTSD symptoms in
the first weeks after the assault, and most people do
find ways to live with it um talk to people
about it, but a minority do develop long term PTSD,

(15:24):
and if the sexual assault was ongoing c PTSD the
new cycles draining on all of us. But it can
cause panic attacks and flashbacks for people who are dealing
with PTSD or c PTSD, and to be confronted with
it day after day, reminders of the trauma, to see
primarily women but men as well not be believed when
they share their experience. That can be extremely damaging. Having

(15:49):
your experience validated and believed is so important to treatment.
So seeing that not happen for others can it can
really suck. It can really put you back. Treatment takes time,
and it is like ten years on average for c PTSD,
and it is a daily struggle. And the constant exposure

(16:09):
to news about other sexual assaults are things that are
even tangentially related because a whole it's another thing you
have to deal with, and people in your life me
maybe talking about it, perhaps unfavorably, not knowing what you're
dealing with. So it's it's great that it's happening, but
mental health should be a part of the conversation. As well,

(16:31):
And UM, it can be exhausting to know your triggers
and to avoid them when they're all over the place,
and sometimes it's almost impossible to avoid them. Yeah, this
is a weird time that we're in. I agree that
me Too is obviously a really important conversation and one
that I think is vastly overdue. But I've I've had

(16:53):
that moment where you know, maybe maybe you want to
get through a work day and not be assaulted by
endless conversation about something traumatic that reminds you of something
that you've experienced. You know. Um, it can feel OK,
it's something you can't turn off. And I've had those

(17:14):
times where I had to just log off because it's
just too much. Um. I will never forget. When I
was working at MSNBC. This was when that football player
I think it was Ray Rice, was on on a
security video like punching his I think it was his
girlfriend or his wife had punching her to the point
where she was unconscious and kind of carrying her lifeless

(17:37):
body around. And this was the news story of the week,
And I worked under this giant, massive TV screen that
was literally playing this footage on a loop over and
over and over and over again. I like, I mean,
I I think about it now, my my, you know,
my fur gets up because I just remember how that felt.
It felt like a kind of torture, and there was

(17:59):
no way to turn it off. There was no unless
I quit my job. There was, you know, no way
to to stop it. And that was a short term thing,
you know. A couple of days later, the news story
changed and there was some new awful thing happening, and
that was less traumatic for me. But imagine how hard
it is to I feel like that always. You know,
then there's feel like there's no escape, but it's just constantly, constantly, constantly,

(18:23):
And in this era of me too, I think that's
how it can feel sometimes. Yeah, And I it is
an interesting thing when you work in a field like
like media where you sort of have to deal with it.
And that was a really hard thing for me to learn,
um when I first started here, because you don't want

(18:43):
to at least I didn't want to talk to my
bosses about it. But I was like, how how else
am I going to be able to if I need
to have a reason to step away, So it can
be it can be really difficult to navigate in the
workplace too. Yeah, but again that just goes back to

(19:04):
this need to get away from stigma. Because listen, if
your boss is interested in having Annie show up to
be her best self and do the best job she
can at work for the good of the company and
for the good of Annie as a person, your boss
should be in And I'm I'm using bus like now,
I'm not talking about like a specific boss here. I

(19:25):
mean this you know the BOS a while ago. Yeah,
I'm sure I didn't know this person, but yeah, I
guess what I'm saying is that it should be in
their best interests to make sure that you can do that,
that you can show up as your best self every day.
And we need to abandon this idea that when you
walk through your workplace doors, all the other stuff that's
on your mind, your family, what's in the news, the

(19:46):
social climate. You know, Donald Trump is gonna kill us all.
You know, someone that you would admired us a child
or not to be a rapist. You know, you were raped,
your sister was raped, like all of this stuff that
is that we carry around in our on our backs
every day. It's ridiculous to expect that when you walk
into your office, all of that gets put put away

(20:06):
like at the door, because it doesn't. And we need
to acknowledge our full selves in the workplace. And sometimes
that looks like saying, yeah, I just spent the entire
day being triggered us because men are awful and this
is the reality of being a woman at working woman
in the world. And sorry, my mental health is important.

(20:26):
And if you want me to show up as my
best self, you know I need to step away, or
I need to go for a walk, I need to
do whatever. I need to not be moderating comments with
people being horrible like whatever it is, whatever that looks
like for you. I would just love to see a
workplace culture that understood what we all understand. Right Like
what I'm saying right now isn't mind blowing to anyone.

(20:48):
If you've ever been broken up with and then had
to go to work and smile because that was your job.
We all we all have experience this one way or another.
So why are we pretending like it's not reality? Like
why can't we just have workplaces that acknowledge what we
all plainly see and experience as how reality is playing out?
You do know what do you know what I mean. Oh, absolutely, Yeah,
there's definitely a stigma there. But on the flip side,

(21:11):
at least in my case, I think my boss would
have completely understood. But I could not have that conversation.
I did not have the strength to have that conversation
at the time. UM. So I didn't like my My
avoidance game is for the worst is on points. I
have gotten very good at that. UM But I do

(21:34):
think that we need to be able to have those
conversations where we can in the workplace, because yeah, don't
you want the best work environment and employees that you
can have. So I'm curious how you have navigated that, Like,
as someone who is dealing with this and we know

(21:56):
it's a something that you have to deal with all
the time, Like for people who are listening, how have
you navigated better? How have you not navigated it? Like
how does it play out for you? Are you doing
things to navigate this or is it just something that's
going to be always a you know, everyday struggle. It's
a it's an everyday struggle. I think no matter what, UM,

(22:20):
I did figure out triggers and when I got this job,
I it was really hard at first, but I if
I can anticipate something, then it's much easier, Like I
can prepare myself for it, and I hardly ever get

(22:40):
really triggered or upset by stuff at work anymore. It's
the things that surprise me that get me, Like I
remember a year ago, because again, like you deal with
it for a long time, right, and you think, why,
I've I've learned and I know what's gonna set me
off on what's not. I went to go see mo
Wanna and within thirty minutes, I was like, I've got

(23:00):
to leave, and I was in the bathroom crying over
what was it about Molanna. I just didn't believe that
there would be this young girl and this big dude
alone on a boat together, nothing would go wrong. There's
some in my heart was like nope, which is awful.

(23:21):
And I've since seen Mohanna and I love it. But
I didn't know, like you can't prepare yourself for everything. Yeah,
I mean I had. That's interesting that you say that,
because I remember a very similar experience. Um this was
a couple of years ago. I had gone to the
movies to see, um this movie south Side with me,
and it's if you've seen it it's a really cute,

(23:41):
romantic movie about Barack and Michelle Obama's first date when
they had first met when they were in law school.
And when I saw the movie, the trailer that proceeded
it was a trailer for Nate Parker's Birth of a Nation, which,
if you know, there was a whole controversy where his
background of having allegedly raped a classmate in college and

(24:03):
that classmate later committing suicide. That was like that that
conversation dominated the premiere of that movie, and so for me,
I could not think about Birth of a Nation or
see anything about it without thinking about, you know, rape
and sexual assault. And so watching this trailer really put

(24:23):
me in a headspace of you know, being sort of
like I wouldn't say I was triggered, but it was
top of mine. And so then seeing a movie that's
about two people that I really admire going on a
sweet date and sort of the kind of one of
the kind of running jokes of the movie, and I
guess their relationship is that when Barack Obama first met Michelle,

(24:44):
Michelle didn't want to date him and was like very
clear she was like, its just some scrubby legal guy
in my practice, he's younger than me. I don't like him,
and so in the movie, she keeps saying, you know,
I don't want to go out on a date with you.
And the audience is very curly meant to find this
as charming and heartwarming, and it is charming and heartwarming,
Like I don't want to crap on that movie. But
because I had just seen that trailer about birth of

(25:07):
a nation and I was in my head, all I
was thinking of is sexual assault right, sexual assault RPE.
Within that framework, I could not experience what I what
I logically understood on screen to be a charming love story.
And of course they get married and they're the best
on blah blah blah. But in that moment, I just thought, wow,
I can't see this as sweet and romantic. I can

(25:29):
only see it as threatening. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's things
like that that I find the most the most challenging,
because you can't prepare yourself for them. Um and I
do have some some things that we'll talk about later,
like if you find yourself in a situation where Mona
has upset you, that you can do, but we'll come

(25:51):
back to that. And I have to say, you know,
as I just got my start teaching in the college setting.
What you just said, I feel like makes the conversation
around trigger warnings in places like college classrooms. No one
in a classroom setting should have to leave crying if
they can help it, right, like, if you can avoid
that happening. And so when that conversation around oh, trigger warnings,

(26:15):
our kids are so caddled, blah blah blah. This is science, Like,
this is not people being coddled little snowflakes. This is
medical research about how about people's mental and physiological responses
to trauma. To boil that down into look at these
little snowflakes, you know, don't want to get upset because

(26:36):
of whatever. It's so backward and so wrong, you know,
And it makes me sad that we are not providing
an environment, as you mentioned before, in our workplaces that
makes room for this, but especially for young people who
are just developing and in school, you know, being told
that their traumas are not real, that they're that they're

(26:57):
you know, backed by science, busy logical responses to traumatic stuff.
Oh there, that's just a joke. You're a snowflake. Yeah,
that that is not helpful at all, not at all
UM and there aren't specific studies yet looking into the

(27:18):
impact of me too on survivors of sexual assault, but
a study from two thousands six found that when a
survivor of a crime saw or read anything about their case,
they were very likely to experience negative emotions. Six reported
sadness and reported fear. Other studies suggest that just seeing

(27:39):
traumatic stories like this UM will increase the likelihood of
developing PTSD. In particular, there was a pretty big study
after UM nine eleven on New Yorkers that saw witness
nine eleven UM. Another aspect that can be traumatizing is
for trans people who have survived sexual assault. And despite

(28:00):
you're seeing some of the highest rates of sexual assault
have been kind of left out of the me too
movement UM, and this is seen by some trans folks
as just another example of their experiences being ignored, and
that in itself can be triggering. And it's the same
for nonsense and people of color because it's mostly been
me two, has mostly been about affluent white women. Well,

(28:23):
that's just like what you said earlier, how important it is,
Like the first step to dealing with these issues are
being validated, being heard. If you feel like your experience
is just not going to be validated, not going to
be heard. If you say it, someone's gonna be like, oh, yeah, yeah,
I hear you trans women, But did you hear about
this affluent white woman who is not trans? You know? Yeah?

(28:45):
If that's if that's the methode that you're getting, then
you can't get that. You can't take that first important
step right And um. Betty Tang wrote about about this
over at Slate, about this whole me too and c
PTSD and PTSD and um. The article was called how

(29:05):
to find Shelter in the Storm of Me Too? And UM,
I want to read this quote. Many of my patients
were re traumatized by Donald Trump's election. Post election, they
experienced a renewed sense of dismissal that a self professed
pussy grabbing man with multiple allegations of sexual assault stacked
up against him could still be elevated to the most

(29:27):
powerful leadership position in the world. The tacit message was
as a crime, sexual assault did not matter, and as
an individuals survivors lives did not matter. This point had
been underscored time and time again. Within the space of
a year, Me Too launched a global reckoning about the
importance of speaking up about all forms of sexual violence.

(29:49):
Silence breaking women were named Times Magazines Person the Year
for the shift has been momentous and emotionally grueling. As
galvanizing as me Too has been, it has also been
extremely overwhelming. This is the double edged sword of exposing trauma,
as long held sufferings pour forth relief and horror both
our eyes from my most vulnerable patients, this has been

(30:11):
destabilizing and confusing. When their social media feeds are flooded
with detailed trauma histories, Some questioned their decisions not to
disclose their's, while others wondered whether their assaults were quote
as bad or worse. Yeah, I I plus a million
to what she said. I have this theory that that
that's why we see me too, was because we couldn't

(30:34):
stop self proclaimed pussy a grabber from ascending to the
highest office in the land. Right. We couldn't stop that,
But we can stop Harvey Weinstein. We can stop you know,
your your boss, right. I think the anger at not
being able to staff Trump and watching him a send
and be so awful to women and everyone and just

(30:56):
be a nightmare. I think it triggered this anger that
was in out of all of us who are marginalized,
who are women, who are trans or people of color,
I'm saying, we couldn't stop it then, but we can
stop it now. And so maybe it's not Donald Trump,
but you know I can speak up and and you know,
call out my abuser and and that that is sort

(31:18):
of a way of feeling empowered even when you know
you can't, Like we still have a you know, admitted
pussy grabber in the White House, right and UM. On
the flip side of that, a lot of folks have
expressed guilt for not being able to speak out about
their own experiences, which just adds on to what you're

(31:40):
already dealing with. And therapists say they are different levels
of engagement in me Too. For survivors UM maybe signal
boosting UM sharing a story in your own feed, but
for some disengagement is key for their mental health. If
you see a post from a friend about me Too,
therapists recommend to comment thinking of you or or even

(32:02):
a love or angry face emoji toes show that you
you heard it UM or you saw it, but to
not ask for details or to not try to be
their their therapist. Oh my god, I mean I've seen
that play out on Facebook where somebody talks about something
good happened to them and you see somebody who I'm
sure as well meaning just making a real ass of

(32:23):
themselves in the comments, and you're thinking, show respect, validate it.
You saw it, you heard it. But people don't want
to be necessarily giving you the details of their of
their traumatic event, and they don't owe you that right
like survive. Like I'm when a survivor speaks out, I
applaud them, but survivors don't owe you their story. It

(32:44):
should not take all of us splitting our risks and
showing you our blood to get people to do something
like like you do not owe someone your meat story
of survival. It's like what you're saying, it's a double
edged thing because it should not take waves and waves
and waves of people telling you all the dirty details
about what the most traumatic thing that ever happened to
them to get people to act and be like, yeah,

(33:06):
this is a problem. And if people speak up, more
power to them. I applaud you, but you don't owe
any but at your story. And if speaking up doesn't
feel right to you, we should still as a society
be able to say this is going on and it's
not okay, even if you're not, you know, not giving
someone every detail of something, the most traumatic thing that

(33:29):
happened to you, you know, absolutely. I mean I remember
seeing a lot of that, because one of the reasons
I avoid social media is largely stuff like this. UM.
But I remember when me too was first happening, a
lot of tweets along the lines of like, the owners
shouldn't be on on women who have experienced this to

(33:49):
to make changes, but that that's what it took, or
at least that's what it took for this conversation to
start happening. Um. Another possible impact of me too for
survivors is that more people are seeking treatment compared to
the same time period. In sixteen, the Rape Abuse and
Incest National Network received more calls in Whether that's because

(34:11):
of re traumatization or an increased belief that their stories
will be believed, We're not sure, but either way, it
is happening. And something else that it's important to point
out is that a lot of these abusers might be
scared or anxious about being found out as abusers and
as creeps. And that might lead them to make threats

(34:33):
to whoever they know that that you know would speak
up about that, And so that's something that we need
to stay vigilant for as well. In the in the
in the wake of me Too, Yes and Um, assistant
professor of Clinical psychology and psychiatry and clinical staff member
at Penn Center's Treatment and Study of Anxiety or c
t s A a new as Nanni said when discussing this,

(34:57):
I've had women in the middle of the me Too
movement who say I can't own it like these women can,
and I say, you don't need to. That's the great
thing about this movement. You can own as much of
it as you want. You don't need to share your
trauma to get over your trauma, except with your therapist.
And while me too can be traumatizing for a lot
of people, for some it has been healing and maybe

(35:17):
it's been both at the same time. Yeah, I think
we just have to allow space for that that it
can be both. It can be traumatizing, but it can
also be healing. You know, we can we can just
help that duality and that's okay, mm hmm. And this
finally brings us to UM some some treatment options, some
things you can do if this is something you're dealing with.

(35:38):
But first we're going to take one more quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank
you sponsor. After hearing all of this, as you might imagine,
c PTSD can be debilitating and current research is looking

(36:00):
into more specialized ways to deal with it. But treatment
options do exist. Uh, there are things you can do
to help treat c PTSD. The first one and most
obvious is going to a therapist if that's an option
for you. I know, personally this has been really hard
for me, like finding the right person again with the
whole insurance thing. It can be really discouraging. But if

(36:22):
this is something that is available to you, is a
possibility for you, don't give up. Yeah, it can be tough,
but you know, if it's something that you feel like
you need to do for yourself, just tell yourself, you know,
this is a process, and that first step is making
a call. Maybe that first step is going online. I'm

(36:42):
doing a Google search. Maybe that first step is talking
to a friend who might be able to get you
someone to talk to. You know, like, take that first step,
even though it might be hard, and and like I
said at the top, since c PTSD is is relatively new,
there aren't too many people that specialize in it, and
misdiagnosis is pretty common. It can be hard to get
it covered by your insurance here in the US, so

(37:05):
unfortunately is not an option for everyone, but if it
is for you, we definitely recommend it. If you do
go to a professional, they might employ cognitive behavioral therapy
or exposure therapy, or acceptance therapy, or this new one
called eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, which is really interesting. UM.

(37:25):
One of the first goals of treatment is called stabilization,
and this refers to the ability to separate the traumatic
event from the present by using grounding techniques. And these
can be pretty literal, like walking around barefoot to keep
you in the safety of the here and now, just
something kind of physical that that puts you in the moment.
Other things that you'll hear a lot when it comes

(37:47):
to treating both PTSD and c PTSD UM. It might
sound simple, but it could be a challenge if you're
a survivor of something traumatic. Things like learning how to
manage stress, learning how to deal with flashbacks, and knowing
what triggers them, having a health strategy for emotion management
and finding healthy long term coping mechanisms, and really figuring
out a way to improve your sleep so that you

(38:08):
don't just feel like garbage all the time. Yeah, and
all of those if you if you look up online,
they're like walkthroughs. If you're thinking, well, how do I
improve my sleep? There are um there are documents and
resources available to you online that will tell you, like
step by step. Try this. Another important one, and this

(38:32):
one one was a big one for me, is finding
a support group, reaching out to friends and family. Those
are generally good steps for for mental health. Educating yourself
and the people in your life about the symptoms and
risk associated with c PTSD and PTSD is another recommendation.
I would also add, you know, even if you're not
someone who's struggling with PTSD or c PTSD, you know,

(38:55):
I remember after Anthony Bourdine died, the kind of national
converse station was, you know, talk to someone if you
are having an issue, you know, don't suffer in silence.
But I also and I think that's important, and so
I'm glad that you said that, But I also want
to implore folks, reach out, you know people. As we
discussed today, it's hard to talk about this. One of
the hallmarks of someone having PTSD is that they have

(39:18):
not it's hard to talk about and you don't. You
put it off, you don't talk about it, and it
might not be a conversation about the person who is
suffering speaking up. We should all taken upon ourselves, whether
we are struggling with issues or not, to talk to
our our people and be like, hey, are you okay?
Do you need to talk? You know, and not just

(39:39):
waiting for them to come to us. I guess that's
what I'm saying, Yeah, for sure. And at its core,
what most professionals believe is key to treating c PTSD
is to restore the survivor's sense of control and to
empower them, and parts of that can include healing relationships
or allowing yourself a period of mourning and um finding

(40:02):
ways to reconnect with your life. So if this is
something that you're you're struggling with, or that you think
you might be struggling with, UM, there is hope. There
is hope. It's not it's not easy by any means,
but there are things that you can do and there

(40:25):
are also a lot of resources for you. Um. The
National Center for PTSD is a good place to start
here in the US. They have an app, They have
an app on your phone, and the nonprofit out of
the Storm There there is a lot of there's a
lot of good stuff out there for for how to
deal with it and encourage anyone who thinks they're dealing

(40:49):
with it or maybe not, maybe someone in their life
is to go and to go and look it up,
because just having simple coping techniques are yeah, stress management. Um,
it's super helpful, super helpful. Yeah. And I mean if
you need help, get help and and talk to your

(41:11):
friends and take care of each other and any I
have to say, I am grateful for you for really
modeling what that could look like and being so transparent
on the show about these issues because it really can
help somebody. Yeah. I struggled with it whether or not
I was going to talk about it, but UM, I
know for me hearing someone else talk about it and

(41:33):
just seeing that they were having this life, that they
were successful and happy, and that they had like not
overcome it completely, but they had found ways to deal
with it and still be happy and fulfilled and that
was so valuable to me, So if it was valuable
to anyone else, I I hope. I hope so totally,

(41:55):
because I mean you, yeah, you are a successful, dynamic,
happy person and that you know, having these challenges does
not mean that you're not those things. You can you
can be all of those things at once. Yeah. I'm
happy that folks are modeling that because it is important. Yeah.
And and one thing, one disclaimer I would like to
include because I did do this as well for a while,

(42:17):
as I would see people who I thought were quote
dealing with it better than me, But you don't know
what what's going on outside of when you're seeing them, right,
and that's not helpful to you. They it's a struggle,
and some people are better, are better they they just
you don't know what they're dealing with outside. You don't

(42:38):
see all of them. So don't think like you aren't
enough for you're you're not as strong as this person.
Because people deal with things in different ways, People present
things in different ways, So it just is different for
different people. And I would put money on someone that

(42:58):
you think is dealing better with it and you is
just dealing with it differently. Are when you be more
in private, or maybe not at all. Yeah, that's I mean.
I just finished watching Sharp Objects. No spoilers, but there's
a great line where um, someone tells the main character, Oh,
I'm so happy that you tackled your demons, and she says,
my demons are not remotely tackled, merely concussed. Love it,

(43:23):
Love it. So that brings us to the end of
this episode and two. Listener mail Alex Route, I love
hearing your feminist voices every week, even with laryngitis. I
wanted to thank you for doing an episode on name
changes in marriage. This episode really resonated with me because

(43:46):
I took my husband's name when I got married and
changed it back a year later. I actually wrote an
article about it that was published on XO Jane. During
my engagement, I debated whether to change my name, and
it ended up deciding to change it. I immediately question
into my decision, but I decided to stick with my
new name for a while in case it grew on me. Spoiler.
It didn't actually like my husband's last name, and it

(44:08):
sounded nice with my first name. But I just couldn't
get over losing such a big part of my identity.
I love my birth name, and, like you talked about
on the podcast, my name is intertwined with so many
aspects of my life. Plus, I'm a huge feminist and
taking my husband's name doesn't align with my values. I'm
actually embarrassed that I succumbed to society's pressure to take
my husband's name in the first place. About a year

(44:31):
into my marriage, I changed my name back. It was
a huge hassle, but it was so worth it. After
using a different last name for a year, reading or
hearing my full birth name again is the best feeling.
I did get a lot of interesting reactions, though. My
husband was very supportive, and so were a lot of
my family and friends. But a lot of people, strangers, friends,
and acquaintances are like, We're confused, shocked, or even outraged.

(44:53):
Some of my husband's friends even called him to ask
if he was mad, or to say that they disagreed
with what he had done, which was dis pointing on
so many levels. I had to go to court to
change my name back, and even the judge assumed I
was getting divorced. I don't regret it at all, though,
I'm telling you, we got so much email about this
and just every email was unique, and um, I'm loving it.

(45:18):
That is interesting to me that people called her husband like,
I don't agree with that your wife was doing. Just
so you know, I don't agree with what's happening in
your marriage, Just so you're aware. Can you imagine, like
what a busybody, what a things say? Oh? How he

(45:39):
wrote The episode on name changes after marriage really hit
home for me because it was a major point of
contention for me and my now wife throughout our engagement,
which lasted two full years because we were waiting for
it to be legal to get married in Texas. From
a pretty early age, middle school, maybe before I even
had an inkling, I was queer. I was pretty sat
up not changing my name for a spouse. It was

(45:59):
all hypothetic, But I was a pretty contrary kid even
before I knew to call myself a feminist. Once we
were engaged, I had an even stronger desire that neither
of us should change our name because we felt that
it was super head or normative. And I've already felt
pretty overwhelmed the sheer head oronormity about entire wedding industry.
It turns out my wife was equally set on sharing
a family name. It was important to her that we

(46:20):
established an identity as a family. Well. I was focusing
on the fact that marriage wouldn't erase us as individuals,
because the whole thing about codependent lesbians that I was
pushing back onto. I think she didn't want to hyphenate
and saddle future kids with a hyphen A reasonable position
if you think about what those kids would face if
they grow up and get married and face the same debate.
Do we just have infinitely compounding hyphens? Coming back to

(46:41):
that thought later. Anyway, the reasonable solution was obviously that
she would take my last name. She was happy to
do so, and I was really the one uncomfortable with it,
which I think is probably a different dynamic than straight
couple's face. I also have some professional credit built up
with my family name, which is more unusual than my
wife's maiden name, and yet totally ikey that we call it. That.
My parents and grandparents have lived and done business and

(47:02):
our smallest town for a long time, so there are
practical reasons too. I just really really didn't want to
do it, and we put off the decision until literally
the week before our wedding. We ultimately decided that she
would take my last name and they both take her
maiden name as our middle name. Problem solved, except we
found out in the aftermath of the wedding that either
partner can change their last name on the basis of

(47:23):
a marriag certificate, and you can drop your middle name
in favor of your maiden name with no extra paperwork.
But for me to change my middle name only over
require a court order and a public notice in a newspaper,
both of which cost money, so I still haven't legally
changed my middle name. Also, even for my wife to
change her middle name in the quote usual way was
tons of paperwork to a bunch of different places. It's

(47:46):
not like there's some central office you write to and
they just tell everyone. The d m V does and
talk to the Social Security Administration and doesn't talk to
the Post Office, doesn't talk to the State Department, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
It's a draconian nightmare. I was also pondering what it
means that you can have so much family identity wrapped
up and keeping your name when my virtue of doing so,
you're potentially keeping your own kids from having that same

(48:07):
sense of family identity if they don't share a last
name with one or both of their parents, how do
we reconcile that our reason for preserving the thing is
also literally destroying at the same time. Sure there's hypher nation,
but that's just pushing the buck down the road one
generation one. If two hyph native kids marry each other,
standardized forms don't have that many boxes. I have no

(48:28):
idea what the answer is. Obviously, in the past we've
just solved it by only caring about patriolenage. So it's
not like this is a new issue or by itself
a reason to change your name. But it's something I
was thinking about during the episode. Maybe we just need
to go super old school with naming conventions and tack
on a new son daughter child of surname with every generation.
Um Hallie, thank you for this letter. First of all,

(48:50):
it's it's I'm happy that folks who are not in
heterosexual pairings are writing in to tell us what the
experience is like for them, because I swear as you said,
and it's like a frient interesting story situation every time.
But also I don't think I really knew how because
I'm not married. I don't think I really knew how
complicated it can be logistically to change your name. Oh yeah,

(49:12):
I've been shocked at how expensive and how just time consuming.
And somebody wrote in and said, yeah, you had to
announce him the paper if you changed like I think
it was if the husband took the less. If the
husband changed his name, you had to announce it in
the paper or something. That's so old fats, that's like
the most I mean, people don't really get the paper anymore, right,

(49:34):
Like that's such how old. Well, yeah, that's I mean,
that's another thing true. I mean it's like it's what
it's like old school with an old school you know,
you know what I'm saying. Yes, Well, yeah, thanks to
both of them for writing in. We'll we'll be hearing
a lot more from listeners because we've gotten so much
mail about it. Um in future episodes as a listener mail.

(49:54):
We just got to do a full episode. We really should.
I thank us reading them the whole time with the
ball ring, but we need to figure something out, yeah,
because it's been just so rewarding and stunning. Honestly, how
many letters and other communications we've gotten about this. But
in the meantime, if you would like to write to
as yourself. You can our email as mom stuff it

(50:15):
has to Works dot com. You can also find us
on social media on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and
on Instagram Stuff Mom Never Told You And thanks as
always to our producer Dylan Fagan