June 17, 2015 • 42 mins
Dad bods broke the Internet in spring 2015. How did a college nickname for a beer-swilling physique spark a national debate about body image and mom bods?
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Listeners. If you're in the market for the ultimate period
underwear that's also adorable for all sorts of body shapes
and sizes, then you need to head on over to
deer Kate's dot com. That's right, Dear Kate might ring
a bell because Kristen and I talked to their fierce
lady engineer founder Julie Siegel. She leads up an all
(00:21):
lady team that creates super cute and comfortable underwear just
for you. So head on over to deer kates dot
com and stuff Mom Never Told You listeners, you can
get off your first time order with the code mom
Stuff valid through the end of August, so head over
to dear kates dot com today. Welcome to stuff Mom
(00:45):
Never Told You from House top Works dot com. Hello,
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Christen and I'm Caroline
and Caroline. I don't know if in the history of
stuff Mom or told you we have gotten so many
requests for a particular episode at one time as we
(01:07):
did with dad Bods. Yeah, it's hilarious and I gotta say, like,
I love you people for turning to us. I like
picture our listeners, like looking at the internet and being
like uh, and then looking over at you and me
like can you can you explain this one? And then
also thinking why are they in my living room? Yeah?
And and that's just waving awkwardly eating some of your
(01:30):
chicken salads chicken salad and chips because we're working on
our own dad bods. Ps. Yeah, it is Father's Day
week here and stuff. Mom never told you land and
we couldn't not talk about the dad Bod because by now,
by the time this is coming to your ears, dad
Bod has probably died down. It is probably we we
(01:54):
probably reached peak dad bod on the internet. The Internet
wore itself out, like very quickly trying to figure out
what this dad bod thing is and means, and then it,
you know, kind of ebbed. So I have a feeling
that when this episode comes out, because when we're recording this,
Dad Body Craze is still in full force, but I
have a feeling that it will be not that will
(02:19):
be revisiting a topic because when we're recording this podcast,
just to be honest with you, to be transparent with
the audience, Dad Body Craze is still at fever pitch.
So I wonder if by the time Father's Day rolls around,
I r l if it'll be old news. Yeah, I
mean the Internet is kind of like a dog with
(02:40):
a bone with this dad bod thing, Uh, just shaking
it around. It's really excited about the dad body, both
positively excited and negatively excited about dad body. And uh,
it's so funny. I mean there's so many like amazing
little pop cultural layers to this one. And not only
(03:02):
in terms of what is dad body and what is
liking it mean? But also what does it say about
the people who like it or who hate it? Or
what does it say about women? And there's just so
many things with dad body. Yeah, And that is exemplified
in a Facebook request that we got from listener Gregory
asking us to do this podcast because he says, well,
(03:25):
I recognize the blatant unfairness that women are pressured to
lose that baby fat and hide their stretch marks after
a child. I can't help but think isn't any form
of body positivity a good thing? And so that's another
that's a question to ask of, Well, is dad bob
just is it a form of body positivity or is it,
(03:46):
as some people say, just a different kind of sexism
or privilege or privilege or um, just frat boys having
a good time. Because that's kind of a hilarious thing
about dad bot, is that it It started with frat boys. Yeah,
it's it's Clemson University student Mackenzie Pearson who really sort
(04:10):
of it all exploded around her and around a column
she wrote for The Odyssey, Uh talking about why women
or or girls love the dad bod. But she was
hardly the first to talk about it. The first two
people on that college website to talk about it were
frat guys who were excited that the softer look was
(04:34):
in Yeah, I mean and and Pearson talks herself about
how the dad bot is nothing new among kids these days.
People have been talking about the dad bod for a while,
and and it wasn't surprising to find out that this
has roots in fraternity culture because it seems like a
real world reflection of the rise of stoner bro culture
(04:57):
with Jason Siegel work a holic, Seth Rogan, all of
those guys who are beloved not only in spite of
what because of their lovable bodies, but not zac Efron.
In that one movie with Seth Rogan, that's true where
he does not look like a dad bod. No, he
looks like a zac Efron body. Yeah, zac Efron does
(05:19):
not have a dad bod. He has a rad bod.
Some might say, well, but okay, so we need to
at least tell the people what dad bought is supposed
to be, because for those of you who have managed
to avoid the online tumult of the dad bod craze.
Pearson defines it as, uh, I go to the gym occasionally,
(05:42):
but I also drink heavily on the weekends and enjoy
eating eight slices of pizza at a time. She says,
it's not an overweight guy, but it isn't one with
washboard abs either, So it's just it's just a person. Really,
it's a person. But I think that last part about
it's not an overweight guy, but it's not one with
washboard abs is important to keep in mind because, as
(06:04):
Pierson notes, Dad Bob still works out, he still exercises.
It's just that when he's not exercising, he's not exactly
eating super great or like watching he's not drinking Michaelope
Ultra for crying out loud, he's doing pbr keag stands
possibly um, so this explodes. Pearson gets all this attention
(06:27):
and Amanda has over its Slate interviews her to find out. Okay,
Mackenzie Pierson enlighten us old thirty year olds about dad body,
and she notes that a friend pointed out to her
on campus, and I really do enjoy her description of it,
of how her friend and she would be walking around
(06:48):
and her friend would whisper, that's a dad bought. That's
a dad bought. That's a dad body. And I want
to know, I want to meet this friend, like okay,
Like I don't need to hear anymore from Mackenzie, Like
we need to We need to find this friend and
be like, girl, what is the deal? Okay, you know
who that friend is, by the way, not you know
to call myself a thirty year old? Uh did you
ever watch the o C? Because her friend is definitely
(07:09):
low And from the three fans of the o C
who are listening, I hope you know what I'm talking about,
because her friend strikes me. And I know this is
a complete tangent, but her friend strikes me as the
type of girl who knows like everything, and she kind
of controls all of the social levers. And she already
has the lingo before everybody else has the lingo, and
she categorizes people in these certain kinds. Could this since
(07:31):
I've never seen me a c could this also be
Shoshanna from Girls or or not? Even she's a little
more self possessed in Shoshanna. Okay, she's not quite as
she is as pop culturally aware and invested as Showshanna,
but is has a little more autonomy and social authority. Okay,
But McKenzie Pears and I really wish you were listening
(07:53):
to this right now so that you could let us
know whether or not my very detailed fantasy friend is
correct at all. Well, yeah, she. Peerson also tells hes
that she figures that about half of modern day nineteen
year olds would have already been familiar with the concept
of the dad body before her column went totally viral. Yeah.
(08:17):
I mean, this whole dad bod thing has to be
laughable to anyone under twenty two, because it's an example
of the olds catching onto something and being like, oh,
let's say analyza, yeah, and that's what happened. I mean,
it is people our age and up who like latched
onto it, and we're like, we're going to pull this
(08:38):
apart and examine this what does it say about society?
And she cites Hollywood examples of dad bods like Chris
Pratt in his Parks and Wreck physique, not in his
Guardians of the Galaxy super Ripped physique John Mayer, which
is hilarious just imagining him with a dad bob singing
(08:59):
your body as a one. And then also John Hammond,
she said, quote he has a great one. And the
example of John Hammon was like, well, dog gone dadd Okay,
I guess, I guess I am attracted to a dad.
Maybe there's a small spectrum, yeah, a small dad bod spectrum. Um.
(09:20):
But so has asked her a very important question, and
that is, so, is there a female equivalent? What is
the female equivalent to the dad bod? And she's like, well,
there's not exactly a word for it, um, but I
would say that it's probably a girl who's thick with
meat on her bones. But she points out that dad
(09:43):
body is cool. It's a normal, healthy guy. He's still desirable.
It doesn't matter that maybe he should work out more,
or maybe he should eat less pizza. It's still a cool,
desirable Like top of the social heap dude. And so
in reading that, my conclusion is that, oh, well, okay,
there is no pop cultural equivalent, whether it's in media, advertising, whatever,
(10:09):
to the dad bod for women, because there it's not
like there's a lady Jason Siegel. Yes, we have like
a Melissa McCarthy or whoever, but she's not a leading
lady where Jason Siegel still gets to be the desirable
leading man. Yeah. And it was also notable that her
description of Thick was a correction of Hess suggesting that
(10:32):
the female equivalent would be quote unquote curvy, and Pearence
was like, no, no, no, not curby so much as thick.
And yeah, I think because they're of that lack of
readily accessible female equivalence, it ruffle a lot of feathers,
this very idea of it. And and before I forget Caroline,
(10:54):
I also want to note something about this interview with
Amanda Hess, in which I'm just talking about the categorization
of men's types of bodies which women are familiar with.
We all know whether we're pear shaped or we're boxy,
or you know, we have a boyish frame or what.
Um has notes that this categorization of male physiques before
(11:17):
up until now has primarily been something that you see
more in gay culture, where you have bears, otters and
twinks and perhaps the dad bod is you know, seems
so revolutionary because oh, this is now, you know, entering
into very very straight, very white at this point, because
let's let's be honest, all of the dad bought examples
(11:39):
that I've seen anywhere all white dudes. Um, now it's
entering into this space. Yeah, because I mean pretty much,
when talking about men's bodies, you either have like the
ripped model on the cover of Men's Fitness, or you
have just like a dude. Yeah, just like a guy body.
It's a guy bodd that is masculine. Well, as we noted,
(12:03):
Pearson's column that took the world by storm inadvertently was
focused on why girls love the dad bods. So what
does she say are the reasons why why are at
least college age girls particularly drawn to frat boys with
a little bit of a paunch. Well, partly, she says
(12:25):
the squish. A little bit of squish makes for better cuddling,
gives you something to hold onto. It also can signal
that the guy will be up for eating whatever whenever.
If you want to go to taco Tuesday or or
thirsty Thursday, he'll be up for it. He's not busy
juicing or whatever. Uh. And it also, she says, lets
us get used to the dad bod will be looking
(12:47):
at twenty years from now, to which I say, honey, Um,
nobody looks at forty the way they did at twenty,
most humans. And so if the human looks one way
at twenty, like, no, you're not looking at what you're
going to be looking at when he's forty. Well, I
think it is also important that we keep in mind that,
as Pearson herself has said, the article was meant to
(13:10):
be read in a lighthearted tone. Yeah, and of course,
I mean that's where I uh, I just have to
roll my eyes because I feel like every year we
get some sort of like silly college sex column or
advice column or whatever the political column, right, that's meant
to be satire or lighthearted or whatever, and it's just
(13:33):
so poorly executed. Because it's college. You're still figuring it out,
you haven't maybe nailed down your your authorly voice yet.
But it apparently made absolutely no difference to every single
American media outlet because they have latched on and not
let go of dad body, like the dog with the
bone Like you said, yeah, well, but so there were
(13:54):
only things like oh we get to cuddle and snuggle
with with his squish. But mostly the reason that girls
supposedly love the dad body, according to Pearson, is that
being next to a dad bod makes us feel better
about ourselves. She says, we don't want a guy that
makes us feel insecure about our body. We're insecure enough
as it is. We don't need a perfectly sculpted guy
(14:16):
standing next to us to make us feel worse. She
goes on to say, we want to look skinny, and
the bigger the guy, the smaller we feel, and the
better we look next to you in a picture um which,
of course that also ruffled some feathers as well. This
idea that women are specifically attracted to something that will
(14:38):
soothe their insecurities, and she directly responds to that saying
that was totally not the intention of the article. I
think of myself as a very secure woman. I'm very
proud of my body and who I am. But it
is something that my friends have talked about, and like
any other girl, I do have insecurities. I don't want
a guy to tell me what I can or can't eat,
and being with someone who is at a more intensive
(15:02):
level of fitness and nutrition and body maintenance than you are.
Just generally speaking, I don't care what your biological sex, gender,
sexual orientation is like. If there is that mismatch, it
can be a drag absolutely um so so yeah, so
there is a kernel of truth in that no one
(15:23):
wants to be told what they can and can't eat.
I'm looking at you care I know, I mean flapping
Sammy's out of my hands to eating that banana. So
what happens then when Pearson writes this intended to be
tongue in cheek column about the dad body and makes
these statements, and then the adult bloggo sphere goes nuts
(15:47):
and goes absolutely nuts. Yeah, I mean you you basically
have these cheers. I'm sure if leagues of men could
lift McKenzie Pearson up on their shoulders and carry her
through the street, synatick or tape parade, they would have.
I mean, you've got at MSN reporting on the quote
latest trend for the male physique plays. They write the
(16:07):
concept was an immediate hit with nicely squishing men everywhere
who took to Instagram without delay to show off their
less than toned torsos and chunky arms. And that did happen.
There were you know, there was definitely a social media
effect of guys being like, finally someone appreciates my belly.
Well yeah, I just think it's funny that, like the
(16:28):
dad bought in Pearson's column, the dad bought is being
written as written about as a way to prop up
women who are insecure, but people are still rejoicing as
if it's permission to be soft. But win. Have men
not had permission to be soft? No? But it's it's
also the thing too have. Like the idea is that
it sues women and women's insecurities, and yet the idea
(16:49):
of it has only southed been men's insecurities. Yeah. Yeah,
so it kind of backfires a little bit. Well yeah,
And then of course you have Peter Holly over at
the Washington Post in mid May who proudly declares, I
have a dad bot and here's why women love it.
Yet again we have an example of quote unquote satire
(17:10):
being not not perfectly executed. Yeah, so he relays his
whole experience of not being as successful with women when
he was exercising all the time and really in shape.
He was like, yeah, you know, they might grab my
bice up flirtatiously at the bar, but they weren't going
to be my lady friend, my permanent lady friend. Um.
(17:31):
And he says it wasn't until he softened up, basically
that women were less intimidated by his masculine physique and
that he actually scored a girlfriend. Well. An important note
too that he says that when he was working out
all the time that the muscles were masking attempting to
mask at least a lack of confidence. And so it's like, well,
(17:56):
which is really at work here? Um? He then back
step and says, you know what, just generally speaking, this
is evolutionary psychology at its best. Because we all work
in offices now. Women are not in mortal danger from lions,
so there's no need to be attracted by by big, brutish,
super strong dudes. And and you could take that a
(18:20):
few steps further and say that when it comes to
one night stands hook up situations, women yes, are going
to opt for the super chiseled zach eron. But when
it comes to settling down. We want a guy who
looks like he's not going to be too tempted to stray,
so we will marry Seth Rogan. Well, you know, he
does say I'm fully aware of the double standard. Women
(18:41):
are held too much higher and more unfortunate standard. Um
and he himself, he experienced his own fallout for sure
from his article from his column it's not just mckinthy
Pearson and then the couple of guys that clemps in
before her who wrote about Dad Bod who are experiencing
a little bit of blowback. Holly was shocked, shocked, I
(19:01):
tell you, by the response to the photos of himself
that accompanied his article. He said, there are people that
find an average male body offensive. It's a really threatening
and uncomfortable feeling to which I have nothing to say
except blank stair, blank stare, blank stare, cricket chirping noise
because people are oh hello, welcome to the universe where
(19:23):
people are very uncomfortable with the average female body as well. Yeah,
I mean he just walked, walked a few feet in
our heels. God, Hi, Hi, my name's Kristen. I recycled
gender stereotypes as often as possible, but we do have
to talk about this bigger issue of body image, and
(19:44):
we're gonna do that when we come right back from
a quick break. So in the first half of the show,
we thoroughly established what dad body is, Mackenzie Pearson's column
that outlined why girls are supposedly attracted to it, all
(20:05):
of the fallout, etcetera, etcetera. So let's get a little
serious for a moment, take it back a few steps
and talk about male physique and male body image, because
the fact of the matter is, and what a lot
of guys have taken comfort in the article acknowledging is
that men have body images as well. They do. Yeah,
(20:28):
So that's why it's weird that this whole dad bod
thing has been written about as a trend because like,
like plenty of women have said in terms of quote
unquote trends about female bodies or feminine bodies. Uh, can
bodies be a trend? I mean, I don't, I don't know.
But so the CDC says that of men have been
(20:50):
overweight since the nineteen sixties and a third are now obese.
In other words, the dad bought or what we're now
calling the dad body and the people who eight or
mary or have kids with it are definitely nothing new.
But like Kristen said, dudes face their own body image
issues also absolutely and MSN writes the positive reaction to
(21:13):
this new found appreciation for curvy men has reminded us
all that guys to face and at times unrealistic social
pressure to be buff and trim. And this led me
to a two thousand and twelve CNN trend piece on
male body image, which was really fascinating to go back
and read in the context of all this dad body
(21:34):
male body image talk going on, because it focused on
how the standards for not only male physique but also
male grooming had escalated in recent years. But at the
same time they interviewed uh like a head editor at
Men's Health magazine who said that the ideal, though, is
(21:57):
still and she was speaking more to grooming, but I
think this also relates to dad body. The ideal is
still to look good but not too good. Do not
look like you're trying. Like if everything is so like
crisp and in the right place and you don't have
you know, an inch of fat on you, then you're
(22:19):
gonna look vain to a feminine extent is the subtext interesting,
which does signal I mean even even the fact that
it is there's this concern of I need to look
a certain way, but not too much of a certain way.
There seems to be this fine line perhaps that men
and boys increasingly are very conscious of what they see
(22:43):
in the mirror, and I think that that that shouldn't
be dismissed. Yeah. So, I mean, the the positive reactions
to the dad bod stuff, it shouldn't be surprising. I mean,
there was this article in the Atlantic which was not
dad bod related but instead male body image related. Um.
But they cited a January study in the Journal of
(23:03):
the American Medical Association at Pediatrics that found that nearly
eighteen percent of boys are highly concerned about their weight
and physique, most of them wanted to be more muscular,
and that these boys were more likely to be depressed
and to engage in high risk behaviors like binge, drinking,
and drug use. They also cited a twelve study that
found that more than a third of middle and high
(23:24):
school aged boys drink protein shakes and powders to get bigger.
So obviously body dissatisfaction is an equal opportunity plague basically yeah.
And we did an entire podcast a while back on
men and anorexia and how treatment for that is can
be really hard to come by because it's just assumed
(23:44):
that eating disorders are a girl thing, when in fact
those statistics are on the rise. So the National Eating
Disorders Association reported in two thousand six, over the past
thirty years, the rate of men being dissatisfied with their
bodies jumped from fIF to forty percent, which is comparable
to rates found among women. And if we look just
(24:07):
at college guys, which is the prime dad body demographic
in its original sense of the word, in two thousand eleven,
NITA reported the rate of eating disorders among college guys
range from four to yeah. But the thing is, it's
still more acceptable culturally, I would say, for guys to
(24:28):
be bigger and flabbier than it is for women. I mean,
you've got the whole ugly guy hot wife trip that
you and I have talked about on the podcast before.
I mean, look at that show King of Queens, which
I mean has long been canceled by now, but it's
the same thing. The big guy with the gut in
his ups uniform, and then the hot wife with all
of the makeup and the heels and all of that stuff.
And so while publicizing a love for dad bods might
(24:51):
make some guys breathe a sigh of relief, this decision
this like, hooray, we can opt out of this body
image hamster wheel, It's still one that's open. Two guys.
It seems like women can't really do the same and
then be celebrated for it, and then be celebrated well,
other women will celebrate other women. In terms of all
(25:11):
the body positivity posts you see all over the place
on social media. Ladies love supporting ladies appreciating their bodies.
Most of the time women do it. Be kind to
other women, please, But it seems like, especially in this
more heteronormative context, that it's when you get the praise
from the opposite sex who says you are still desirable
(25:34):
to a lot of us just the way you are,
that then it becomes a valid choice. So that is
probably why Mackenzie Pearson's dad bought article, as opposed to
the previous dad bought articles that have been written on
the Odyssey by dudes, went so viral because here is
a straight girl saying the other straight girls find these
(25:58):
kinds of straight guys super attractive. Yeah, and then msn
uh In, in a wistful bit of philosophizing, says, but
where will this trend take us? Could the mom bod
be the lusted after shape for time will tell? And
I've got got my middle fingers in the air for
(26:21):
msn Because no, no, no, there's no such thing as
the lusted after mom body in this context, in the
eat all the pizza, drink all the beer like the
frat boys context, the mom bod is literally only the
bod that produces children. In terms of the way we
talk about it and think about it and the way
(26:42):
that it's acceptable for a woman to be bigger. Well,
especially if we're operating from this idea that dad bod
serves to soothe women's insecurities romantic, physical, sexual, and otherwise,
then a mom body is not going to operate in
the same way, because at no point in our cultural
(27:03):
history has a larger, fleshier woman, a woman with just
a body that isn't like a super banging body, been
seen as a way to sooth any kind of male insecurity. Yeah,
you know, I mean, and I'm just talking like cultural
(27:24):
values here and Lyndy West, who has spoken openly for
a long time about being a fat woman, fat acceptance,
body image in general, had a lot to say about
this on Twitter, and not surprisingly, yeah, she says that
you know, it's not that the dad bot isn't cool.
All bods are cool. But can you imagine the abuse
(27:46):
women would take if we declared Momba the hot new bod.
It wouldn't be a bunch of cute listicles, is what
I'm saying. Honestly, dad bot is pure male privilege. And actually,
she says, we do have dialogue around Momba. It's called
fixing your post baby body. And this is where we
get into the mom shell trend, because of course with
(28:10):
dad bod, everyone starts asking about, well, what's what's mom bod?
Where's the mom bod trend? When is that going to happen? Well,
guess what it did happen, and it's called the mom
shell And it's what we talked about in our Mother's
Day episodes on the celebrity Baby Bump Watch and then
the celebrity focused baby weight Loss Race. This whole idea
of get your pre pregnancy body back as quickly as possible,
(28:34):
which psc it doesn't really exist, like your body is
your body and you're not it never you never lost it.
It's it's just there and you had a child. It's
the idea of the milf. But the thing is, the
dad bod mainly applies to college guys who aren't actually
literally fathers for the most part. I mean, plenty of
(28:55):
of guys who are dad's or or dad age have
definitely appropriated it and been like, yes, this is me
and I'm gonna revel in my dad body. But anytime
you're talking about you're trying to equate a momba and
a dad bod. The mom bad has earned her tiger stripes,
as Mackenzie Pearson write in a follow up article, But
having children right and and what Mackenzie is talking about
(29:18):
in terms of, you know, a woman who has had
a child having stretch marks or perhaps scars from acessarian section, like, yeah,
that is in a very real sense of the word
a mom bad. But culturally, the mom bads that are
most praised, like the mom shells, are the celebrities who
look like they never were pregnant. They're fitter than you
(29:41):
and I will ever be and you brought up such
an important point about the fact that dad body relates
nothing whatsoever to having a child at some point, whereas
the mom bad as being something super sexy and desirable
among st college dudes. It's never gonna be a thing
(30:03):
because of how much people really get panicky over the
idea of sexualizing women once motherhood happens. I mean, we
talked about this with Demi Moore's Andy Leibowitz pregnancy photo
where she's naked and she's holding her breasts, and it
was very shocking to a lot of people because here
(30:24):
is a woman who is full term pregnant, and yet
she's posing in a sexy way, and we don't know
what to do with that. That's very much a conflict.
And when it comes to Mrs Robinson's and milts, they're
desirable because they're hot despite being a mom, not because
their mom, not because they look like moms. And yeah,
(30:45):
so there's never an equivalent. A dad bod belongs to
a twenty year old college guy, but a mom bod
belongs to a thirty five year old woman who has
had children. You're not gonna say that a twenty year
old girl at college and a sorority has a mom
by because likely she would be offended. Honestly, Oh yeah, yeah.
It's like, listen, I wear mom jeans and I like
(31:08):
to cut off a mom jeans in the summertime. I
can wear some mom jeans, and I've gotten made fun
of for wearing mom jeans by extension like a mom bad.
Like I can get over people mocking my mom jeans,
but my mom bad that would be feel like a
little bit more of a slight in a way. But
that says so much though. The very fact that would
be insulting says so much about how women's bodies are
(31:31):
treated as they age and what we think of when
we think of a mom bad. But at the same time, though, Caroline,
what do we think about guys grown men, not just
college guys, but more so middle aged guys who are
like legit dads with like actual literal dad bodies, who
(31:52):
really have found that some validation for their physique with
this whole dad body thing. The guys who have said,
you know what, I have in a little embarrassed about
my spare tire, but this really gave me a boost
that I need because that was something that we heard
from for instance from listener Gregory, who posted about this
on our Facebook page, where he was saying, you know,
(32:13):
like I I kind of like it in a way.
I kind of like that this is that this exists now. Well,
I mean I think, you know, like you pointed out
earlier with how great lady the lady body positivity is.
I mean, I think any body positivity is great. Any
(32:33):
support for anyone about their body is great. You know,
I love your body, be happy in it. Um. But
I mean, I think it's kind of always been okay
for guys to be whatever shape. I mean, if we're
talking pop culturally, it's always been okay for guys to
look however, except for morbidly obese in pop culture. Um,
(32:54):
and that's something that hasn't been true for women. But
playing Devil's advocate for a moment, though, does that sentiment
of well, you know what, it's always been fine for
you to have a body, you know, and you don't
get it? Does that do a disservice so to men,
like by turning them into a monolith as we never
appreciate as women and saying you, guys, this is the
(33:15):
way it is for you. Just accept the cultural value
that's given to you. We're not gonna acknowledge that you
individually have body images on your own, and that when
you look in the mirror, and that when you, you know,
want to have sex with someone, that certain feelings process
through you in individual kinds of ways as well. Oh yeah,
I mean, I I absolutely I can totally see that,
(33:38):
And I can totally see how reading a column by
an attractive nineteen year old girl telling you that you're
desirable could be a nice morale boost. So it seems
like the problem isn't dad bod. The frustration, rather is
that male bodies just generally are consistently validated. They're kind
(34:02):
of they're kind of always being given given the cookies,
and women are being told to run that cookie off,
but not too much, yeah, because otherwise you're vain. Yeah,
otherwise you're too vain. But you can't, Yeah, you can't
be too too thin to the point of skinny, but
to not thin to the point of to the point
of thick, as as Mackenzie Pearson would put it, So
(34:25):
interesting too, I want to hear from listeners about the
curby versus thick distinction. That said a lot to me too,
That a lot to me also because I feel like
Curvy is at least endowed um with some positive connotations,
you know, like Curvy can still be like, oh well,
(34:46):
she's like a Marilyn Monroe. But Thick almost carries with
it like and I'm not saying this, I'm not saying
thick is bad, but I'm saying thick almost carries with
it more negative connotations. And so there you have the
writer of the Dad body column not even she can't
she there is no there is no parallel wh I.
But when it comes to Thick, though, I will say anecdotally,
(35:07):
I completely disagree. When I hear thick, I hear a
big butt and thick thighs. I think of Beyonce and
Kim Kardashian and the entire like big Butts episode that
we did a while back. That's what I hear when
I hear yeah, but I I can't yeah, And I
(35:28):
don't disagree with you, which is not a mom bod
though in my mind now, And I mean, I don't
disagree with you in terms of thinking of like Beyonce,
who's a great body. But I don't know that that's
what Mackenzie Pearson meant. Yeah. Yeah, So Mackenzie Pearson. If
you're listening, just call us up at Hive Dad Bods.
We'll be on the horn waiting to hear from you.
(35:48):
But listeners, we really want to hear from you about
this because we already have heard so many requests, so
now we want to hear your thoughts and feedback and
responses to the dad body and owners of dad Bods.
We also want to hear from you. Mom's Stabbitt House
Stuffwork dot Com is our email address. You can also
tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast and messages on Facebook,
(36:12):
and we've got a couple of messages to share with you.
All right now, Okay, well, I have a letter here
from Courtney. It's sort of a two parter. It's half
carpentry and half women peeing. So let's just dive into this.
Perfect yeah, perfect, um, all things sminty, She says. First
(36:33):
of all, i want to thank you for the podcast
about carpentry. I've recently been looking into new education for
new career options, as I feel like the education I
have has not set me up for any careers that
I'm really interested in. I've never really considered carpentry until
your podcast, but I enjoy making things and am now
seriously looking into it. I just ordered hammer Head by
(36:54):
Nina McLaughlin and it should be on the way to
my house soon. I can't wait to read more of
her story. I also looked up college carpentry programs in
my area and there's an interesting program starting at a
local college in Waterloo, Ontario for women only. It's government funded,
so it's free to eligible women those who were either
unemployed or underemployed. Seems like it could potentially be a
(37:16):
great way to get more women in the field. I
also wanted to comment on the letter you read recently
in response to your hunting episode, where the writer talked
about female urination devices. I think that you should definitely
do a podcast, YouTube video, or something on the subject.
The writer mentioned the cold, but for me, the issue
(37:38):
was always privacy. I did field work for a few
seasons and we were often without porta potties and working
in an open farm field. The guys would just walk
a few feet to the side and turn their backs,
but for girls it was a lot harder to find
the privacy we needed. We would usually find a bathroom
in town during lunch, but sometimes you need to pee
more often it was a constant conversation topic among the
(37:58):
women and almost all ways on our minds, is ordering
this large coffee going to be worth needing to take
a twenty minute walk to the closest tree or bush?
And that's probably a bit of health and safety issue
on a hot day when we shouldn't be limiting water
intake to avoid having to pay too Often, female urination
devices or fuds were occasionally mentioned in jokes as kind
(38:19):
of a weird, ridiculous thing anyone should be embarrassed to
even consider using. But if they can solve something that
is more than a minor inconvenience and often a very
real problem for women, maybe we should learn to love
and embrace the fud. And I say, corny, yeah, we
absolutely should embrace the fud, And we we talked a
little bit about it in our potty Politics episode a
(38:40):
while back. We did mention things like the pmate when
you go to music festivals and you have to go
into a disgusting porta potty or or like in your case,
there's just kind of nowhere to go and you don't
want to pop a squat and expose yourself to the elements,
slash your coworkers. Uh so, so maybe maybe it's time
to focus more on it. Listeners, let us know should
(39:01):
we do a FUD episode, And if you have FUD
stories to share with us so we can read, uh,
please send them our way. Mom stuff at house stuffworks
dot com. I've got a letter here from Evelyn, subject
line from a first time trimester first timer, and this
is relevant to our dad body conversation, so she says,
(39:22):
I wanted to write in with some thoughts on how
it feels to be pregnant and to think about the
pregnant body and popular culture. First of all, the first
trimester is probably the least mediatized trimester, first because it's
the time when a woman is the least visibly pregnant,
and second because most women are advised to keep the
pregnancy secret until the second trimester. This is because the
incidence of miscarriage is much higher than the first trimester,
(39:45):
and most people don't want to publicize that. In other words,
I'm part of the least represented group of pregnant women
in the media. While women with baby bombs get unwanted
attention from strangers on the street, I probably only seem
like a bloated pimpley, really tired looking woman commuting on
public transportation. Every day, I blend in or maybe even
become a little more visible as I gained baby weight
(40:07):
without a visible baby. Logically, I know that I'm gaining
the right amount of weight, and that a lot of
it is my body building up stores of liquids and
fats for the rest of my pregnancy. However, it's hard
not to just feel like I'm being judged unfairly for
my extra girth and physical weakness. I can't tell work
friends the real reason why I'm missing out on certain
outings that I'm plain exhausted and I don't think I
(40:28):
can stomach the food, so I have to tell them
I have some other commitment or illness. I can't very
well take up a pregnant woman's seat on the bus
without people thinking I'm rude. And finally, I have the
uncomfortable suspicion that all of my acquaintances secretly think I'm
suddenly getting fat for no reason and are judging me
for it. As a person who's never been the object
of fat shaming, I'm becoming acutely aware of it. So
(40:50):
actually I'm looking at the second trimester with a certain
amount of hope. Because there is a real media presence
of women with baby bumps, I feel like I'll have
more of an instant idea nity when I'm walking around
in public. I might actually get offered a seat on
a crowded bus. I won't need to spend mental energy
making up lies to get out of drinking or tiring activities.
I have a ready made excuse if I don't look
(41:12):
put together, energetic and fit. In conclusion, I feel like
the difficulties of the first trimester morning sickness, exhaustion, food aversions, bloating, anxiety,
and adjusting to a pregnant body are really avoided in
the media. Morning sickness might get some airplay, but it's
hardly glamorous, whereas there seems to be a trend of
aestheticizing the baby bump that I look forward to. Rightly
(41:34):
or wrongly, I don't know yet. Well, Eveyonen, thanks so
much for sharing your experiences and good clock with the
rest of your pregnancy, and we want to hear from
you as well. Listeners. Mom stuff at house stuffworks dot
com is our email address and for links to all
of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,
and podcasts, including this one. So you can read all
(41:55):
of our Dad Bob sources, head on over to stuff
Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Isn't how Stuff Works dot
com
Listeners. If you're in the market for the ultimate period
underwear that's also adorable for all sorts of body shapes
and sizes, then you need to head on over to
deer Kate's dot com. That's right, Dear Kate might ring
a bell because Kristen and I talked to their fierce
lady engineer founder Julie Siegel. She leads up an all
(00:21):
lady team that creates super cute and comfortable underwear just
for you. So head on over to deer kates dot
com and stuff Mom Never Told You listeners, you can
get off your first time order with the code mom
Stuff valid through the end of August, so head over
to dear kates dot com today. Welcome to stuff Mom
(00:45):
Never Told You from House top Works dot com. Hello,
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Christen and I'm Caroline
and Caroline. I don't know if in the history of
stuff Mom or told you we have gotten so many
requests for a particular episode at one time as we
(01:07):
did with dad Bods. Yeah, it's hilarious and I gotta say, like,
I love you people for turning to us. I like
picture our listeners, like looking at the internet and being
like uh, and then looking over at you and me
like can you can you explain this one? And then
also thinking why are they in my living room? Yeah?
And and that's just waving awkwardly eating some of your
(01:30):
chicken salads chicken salad and chips because we're working on
our own dad bods. Ps. Yeah, it is Father's Day
week here and stuff. Mom never told you land and
we couldn't not talk about the dad Bod because by now,
by the time this is coming to your ears, dad
Bod has probably died down. It is probably we we
(01:54):
probably reached peak dad bod on the internet. The Internet
wore itself out, like very quickly trying to figure out
what this dad bod thing is and means, and then it,
you know, kind of ebbed. So I have a feeling
that when this episode comes out, because when we're recording this,
Dad Body Craze is still in full force, but I
have a feeling that it will be not that will
(02:19):
be revisiting a topic because when we're recording this podcast,
just to be honest with you, to be transparent with
the audience, Dad Body Craze is still at fever pitch.
So I wonder if by the time Father's Day rolls around,
I r l if it'll be old news. Yeah, I
mean the Internet is kind of like a dog with
(02:40):
a bone with this dad bod thing, Uh, just shaking
it around. It's really excited about the dad body, both
positively excited and negatively excited about dad body. And uh,
it's so funny. I mean there's so many like amazing
little pop cultural layers to this one. And not only
(03:02):
in terms of what is dad body and what is
liking it mean? But also what does it say about
the people who like it or who hate it? Or
what does it say about women? And there's just so
many things with dad body. Yeah, And that is exemplified
in a Facebook request that we got from listener Gregory
asking us to do this podcast because he says, well,
(03:25):
I recognize the blatant unfairness that women are pressured to
lose that baby fat and hide their stretch marks after
a child. I can't help but think isn't any form
of body positivity a good thing? And so that's another
that's a question to ask of, Well, is dad bob
just is it a form of body positivity or is it,
(03:46):
as some people say, just a different kind of sexism
or privilege or privilege or um, just frat boys having
a good time. Because that's kind of a hilarious thing
about dad bot, is that it It started with frat boys. Yeah,
it's it's Clemson University student Mackenzie Pearson who really sort
(04:10):
of it all exploded around her and around a column
she wrote for The Odyssey, Uh talking about why women
or or girls love the dad bod. But she was
hardly the first to talk about it. The first two
people on that college website to talk about it were
frat guys who were excited that the softer look was
(04:34):
in Yeah, I mean and and Pearson talks herself about
how the dad bot is nothing new among kids these days.
People have been talking about the dad bod for a while,
and and it wasn't surprising to find out that this
has roots in fraternity culture because it seems like a
real world reflection of the rise of stoner bro culture
(04:57):
with Jason Siegel work a holic, Seth Rogan, all of
those guys who are beloved not only in spite of
what because of their lovable bodies, but not zac Efron.
In that one movie with Seth Rogan, that's true where
he does not look like a dad bod. No, he
looks like a zac Efron body. Yeah, zac Efron does
(05:19):
not have a dad bod. He has a rad bod.
Some might say, well, but okay, so we need to
at least tell the people what dad bought is supposed
to be, because for those of you who have managed
to avoid the online tumult of the dad bod craze.
Pearson defines it as, uh, I go to the gym occasionally,
(05:42):
but I also drink heavily on the weekends and enjoy
eating eight slices of pizza at a time. She says,
it's not an overweight guy, but it isn't one with
washboard abs either, So it's just it's just a person. Really,
it's a person. But I think that last part about
it's not an overweight guy, but it's not one with
washboard abs is important to keep in mind because, as
(06:04):
Pierson notes, Dad Bob still works out, he still exercises.
It's just that when he's not exercising, he's not exactly
eating super great or like watching he's not drinking Michaelope
Ultra for crying out loud, he's doing pbr keag stands
possibly um, so this explodes. Pearson gets all this attention
(06:27):
and Amanda has over its Slate interviews her to find out. Okay,
Mackenzie Pierson enlighten us old thirty year olds about dad body,
and she notes that a friend pointed out to her
on campus, and I really do enjoy her description of it,
of how her friend and she would be walking around
(06:48):
and her friend would whisper, that's a dad bought. That's
a dad bought. That's a dad body. And I want
to know, I want to meet this friend, like okay,
Like I don't need to hear anymore from Mackenzie, Like
we need to We need to find this friend and
be like, girl, what is the deal? Okay, you know
who that friend is, by the way, not you know
to call myself a thirty year old? Uh did you
ever watch the o C? Because her friend is definitely
(07:09):
low And from the three fans of the o C
who are listening, I hope you know what I'm talking about,
because her friend strikes me. And I know this is
a complete tangent, but her friend strikes me as the
type of girl who knows like everything, and she kind
of controls all of the social levers. And she already
has the lingo before everybody else has the lingo, and
she categorizes people in these certain kinds. Could this since
(07:31):
I've never seen me a c could this also be
Shoshanna from Girls or or not? Even she's a little
more self possessed in Shoshanna. Okay, she's not quite as
she is as pop culturally aware and invested as Showshanna,
but is has a little more autonomy and social authority. Okay,
But McKenzie Pears and I really wish you were listening
(07:53):
to this right now so that you could let us
know whether or not my very detailed fantasy friend is
correct at all. Well, yeah, she. Peerson also tells hes
that she figures that about half of modern day nineteen
year olds would have already been familiar with the concept
of the dad body before her column went totally viral. Yeah.
(08:17):
I mean, this whole dad bod thing has to be
laughable to anyone under twenty two, because it's an example
of the olds catching onto something and being like, oh,
let's say analyza, yeah, and that's what happened. I mean,
it is people our age and up who like latched
onto it, and we're like, we're going to pull this
(08:38):
apart and examine this what does it say about society?
And she cites Hollywood examples of dad bods like Chris
Pratt in his Parks and Wreck physique, not in his
Guardians of the Galaxy super Ripped physique John Mayer, which
is hilarious just imagining him with a dad bob singing
(08:59):
your body as a one. And then also John Hammond,
she said, quote he has a great one. And the
example of John Hammon was like, well, dog gone dadd Okay,
I guess, I guess I am attracted to a dad.
Maybe there's a small spectrum, yeah, a small dad bod spectrum. Um.
(09:20):
But so has asked her a very important question, and
that is, so, is there a female equivalent? What is
the female equivalent to the dad bod? And she's like, well,
there's not exactly a word for it, um, but I
would say that it's probably a girl who's thick with
meat on her bones. But she points out that dad
(09:43):
body is cool. It's a normal, healthy guy. He's still desirable.
It doesn't matter that maybe he should work out more,
or maybe he should eat less pizza. It's still a cool,
desirable Like top of the social heap dude. And so
in reading that, my conclusion is that, oh, well, okay,
there is no pop cultural equivalent, whether it's in media, advertising, whatever,
(10:09):
to the dad bod for women, because there it's not
like there's a lady Jason Siegel. Yes, we have like
a Melissa McCarthy or whoever, but she's not a leading
lady where Jason Siegel still gets to be the desirable
leading man. Yeah. And it was also notable that her
description of Thick was a correction of Hess suggesting that
(10:32):
the female equivalent would be quote unquote curvy, and Pearence
was like, no, no, no, not curby so much as thick.
And yeah, I think because they're of that lack of
readily accessible female equivalence, it ruffle a lot of feathers,
this very idea of it. And and before I forget Caroline,
(10:54):
I also want to note something about this interview with
Amanda Hess, in which I'm just talking about the categorization
of men's types of bodies which women are familiar with.
We all know whether we're pear shaped or we're boxy,
or you know, we have a boyish frame or what.
Um has notes that this categorization of male physiques before
(11:17):
up until now has primarily been something that you see
more in gay culture, where you have bears, otters and
twinks and perhaps the dad bod is you know, seems
so revolutionary because oh, this is now, you know, entering
into very very straight, very white at this point, because
let's let's be honest, all of the dad bought examples
(11:39):
that I've seen anywhere all white dudes. Um, now it's
entering into this space. Yeah, because I mean pretty much,
when talking about men's bodies, you either have like the
ripped model on the cover of Men's Fitness, or you
have just like a dude. Yeah, just like a guy body.
It's a guy bodd that is masculine. Well, as we noted,
(12:03):
Pearson's column that took the world by storm inadvertently was
focused on why girls love the dad bods. So what
does she say are the reasons why why are at
least college age girls particularly drawn to frat boys with
a little bit of a paunch. Well, partly, she says
(12:25):
the squish. A little bit of squish makes for better cuddling,
gives you something to hold onto. It also can signal
that the guy will be up for eating whatever whenever.
If you want to go to taco Tuesday or or
thirsty Thursday, he'll be up for it. He's not busy
juicing or whatever. Uh. And it also, she says, lets
us get used to the dad bod will be looking
(12:47):
at twenty years from now, to which I say, honey, Um,
nobody looks at forty the way they did at twenty,
most humans. And so if the human looks one way
at twenty, like, no, you're not looking at what you're
going to be looking at when he's forty. Well, I
think it is also important that we keep in mind that,
as Pearson herself has said, the article was meant to
(13:10):
be read in a lighthearted tone. Yeah, and of course,
I mean that's where I uh, I just have to
roll my eyes because I feel like every year we
get some sort of like silly college sex column or
advice column or whatever the political column, right, that's meant
to be satire or lighthearted or whatever, and it's just
(13:33):
so poorly executed. Because it's college. You're still figuring it out,
you haven't maybe nailed down your your authorly voice yet.
But it apparently made absolutely no difference to every single
American media outlet because they have latched on and not
let go of dad body, like the dog with the
bone Like you said, yeah, well, but so there were
(13:54):
only things like oh we get to cuddle and snuggle
with with his squish. But mostly the reason that girls
supposedly love the dad body, according to Pearson, is that
being next to a dad bod makes us feel better
about ourselves. She says, we don't want a guy that
makes us feel insecure about our body. We're insecure enough
as it is. We don't need a perfectly sculpted guy
(14:16):
standing next to us to make us feel worse. She
goes on to say, we want to look skinny, and
the bigger the guy, the smaller we feel, and the
better we look next to you in a picture um which,
of course that also ruffled some feathers as well. This
idea that women are specifically attracted to something that will
(14:38):
soothe their insecurities, and she directly responds to that saying
that was totally not the intention of the article. I
think of myself as a very secure woman. I'm very
proud of my body and who I am. But it
is something that my friends have talked about, and like
any other girl, I do have insecurities. I don't want
a guy to tell me what I can or can't eat,
and being with someone who is at a more intensive
(15:02):
level of fitness and nutrition and body maintenance than you are.
Just generally speaking, I don't care what your biological sex, gender,
sexual orientation is like. If there is that mismatch, it
can be a drag absolutely um so so yeah, so
there is a kernel of truth in that no one
(15:23):
wants to be told what they can and can't eat.
I'm looking at you care I know, I mean flapping
Sammy's out of my hands to eating that banana. So
what happens then when Pearson writes this intended to be
tongue in cheek column about the dad body and makes
these statements, and then the adult bloggo sphere goes nuts
(15:47):
and goes absolutely nuts. Yeah, I mean you you basically
have these cheers. I'm sure if leagues of men could
lift McKenzie Pearson up on their shoulders and carry her
through the street, synatick or tape parade, they would have.
I mean, you've got at MSN reporting on the quote
latest trend for the male physique plays. They write the
(16:07):
concept was an immediate hit with nicely squishing men everywhere
who took to Instagram without delay to show off their
less than toned torsos and chunky arms. And that did happen.
There were you know, there was definitely a social media
effect of guys being like, finally someone appreciates my belly.
Well yeah, I just think it's funny that, like the
(16:28):
dad bought in Pearson's column, the dad bought is being
written as written about as a way to prop up
women who are insecure, but people are still rejoicing as
if it's permission to be soft. But win. Have men
not had permission to be soft? No? But it's it's
also the thing too have. Like the idea is that
it sues women and women's insecurities, and yet the idea
(16:49):
of it has only southed been men's insecurities. Yeah. Yeah,
so it kind of backfires a little bit. Well yeah,
And then of course you have Peter Holly over at
the Washington Post in mid May who proudly declares, I
have a dad bot and here's why women love it.
Yet again we have an example of quote unquote satire
(17:10):
being not not perfectly executed. Yeah, so he relays his
whole experience of not being as successful with women when
he was exercising all the time and really in shape.
He was like, yeah, you know, they might grab my
bice up flirtatiously at the bar, but they weren't going
to be my lady friend, my permanent lady friend. Um.
(17:31):
And he says it wasn't until he softened up, basically
that women were less intimidated by his masculine physique and
that he actually scored a girlfriend. Well. An important note
too that he says that when he was working out
all the time that the muscles were masking attempting to
mask at least a lack of confidence. And so it's like, well,
(17:56):
which is really at work here? Um? He then back
step and says, you know what, just generally speaking, this
is evolutionary psychology at its best. Because we all work
in offices now. Women are not in mortal danger from lions,
so there's no need to be attracted by by big, brutish,
super strong dudes. And and you could take that a
(18:20):
few steps further and say that when it comes to
one night stands hook up situations, women yes, are going
to opt for the super chiseled zach eron. But when
it comes to settling down. We want a guy who
looks like he's not going to be too tempted to stray,
so we will marry Seth Rogan. Well, you know, he
does say I'm fully aware of the double standard. Women
(18:41):
are held too much higher and more unfortunate standard. Um
and he himself, he experienced his own fallout for sure
from his article from his column it's not just mckinthy
Pearson and then the couple of guys that clemps in
before her who wrote about Dad Bod who are experiencing
a little bit of blowback. Holly was shocked, shocked, I
(19:01):
tell you, by the response to the photos of himself
that accompanied his article. He said, there are people that
find an average male body offensive. It's a really threatening
and uncomfortable feeling to which I have nothing to say
except blank stair, blank stare, blank stare, cricket chirping noise
because people are oh hello, welcome to the universe where
(19:23):
people are very uncomfortable with the average female body as well. Yeah,
I mean he just walked, walked a few feet in
our heels. God, Hi, Hi, my name's Kristen. I recycled
gender stereotypes as often as possible, but we do have
to talk about this bigger issue of body image, and
(19:44):
we're gonna do that when we come right back from
a quick break. So in the first half of the show,
we thoroughly established what dad body is, Mackenzie Pearson's column
that outlined why girls are supposedly attracted to it, all
(20:05):
of the fallout, etcetera, etcetera. So let's get a little
serious for a moment, take it back a few steps
and talk about male physique and male body image, because
the fact of the matter is, and what a lot
of guys have taken comfort in the article acknowledging is
that men have body images as well. They do. Yeah,
(20:28):
So that's why it's weird that this whole dad bod
thing has been written about as a trend because like,
like plenty of women have said in terms of quote
unquote trends about female bodies or feminine bodies. Uh, can
bodies be a trend? I mean, I don't, I don't know.
But so the CDC says that of men have been
(20:50):
overweight since the nineteen sixties and a third are now obese.
In other words, the dad bought or what we're now
calling the dad body and the people who eight or
mary or have kids with it are definitely nothing new.
But like Kristen said, dudes face their own body image
issues also absolutely and MSN writes the positive reaction to
(21:13):
this new found appreciation for curvy men has reminded us
all that guys to face and at times unrealistic social
pressure to be buff and trim. And this led me
to a two thousand and twelve CNN trend piece on
male body image, which was really fascinating to go back
and read in the context of all this dad body
(21:34):
male body image talk going on, because it focused on
how the standards for not only male physique but also
male grooming had escalated in recent years. But at the
same time they interviewed uh like a head editor at
Men's Health magazine who said that the ideal, though, is
(21:57):
still and she was speaking more to grooming, but I
think this also relates to dad body. The ideal is
still to look good but not too good. Do not
look like you're trying. Like if everything is so like
crisp and in the right place and you don't have
you know, an inch of fat on you, then you're
(22:19):
gonna look vain to a feminine extent is the subtext interesting,
which does signal I mean even even the fact that
it is there's this concern of I need to look
a certain way, but not too much of a certain way.
There seems to be this fine line perhaps that men
and boys increasingly are very conscious of what they see
(22:43):
in the mirror, and I think that that that shouldn't
be dismissed. Yeah. So, I mean, the the positive reactions
to the dad bod stuff, it shouldn't be surprising. I mean,
there was this article in the Atlantic which was not
dad bod related but instead male body image related. Um.
But they cited a January study in the Journal of
(23:03):
the American Medical Association at Pediatrics that found that nearly
eighteen percent of boys are highly concerned about their weight
and physique, most of them wanted to be more muscular,
and that these boys were more likely to be depressed
and to engage in high risk behaviors like binge, drinking,
and drug use. They also cited a twelve study that
found that more than a third of middle and high
(23:24):
school aged boys drink protein shakes and powders to get bigger.
So obviously body dissatisfaction is an equal opportunity plague basically yeah.
And we did an entire podcast a while back on
men and anorexia and how treatment for that is can
be really hard to come by because it's just assumed
(23:44):
that eating disorders are a girl thing, when in fact
those statistics are on the rise. So the National Eating
Disorders Association reported in two thousand six, over the past
thirty years, the rate of men being dissatisfied with their
bodies jumped from fIF to forty percent, which is comparable
to rates found among women. And if we look just
(24:07):
at college guys, which is the prime dad body demographic
in its original sense of the word, in two thousand eleven,
NITA reported the rate of eating disorders among college guys
range from four to yeah. But the thing is, it's
still more acceptable culturally, I would say, for guys to
(24:28):
be bigger and flabbier than it is for women. I mean,
you've got the whole ugly guy hot wife trip that
you and I have talked about on the podcast before.
I mean, look at that show King of Queens, which
I mean has long been canceled by now, but it's
the same thing. The big guy with the gut in
his ups uniform, and then the hot wife with all
of the makeup and the heels and all of that stuff.
And so while publicizing a love for dad bods might
(24:51):
make some guys breathe a sigh of relief, this decision
this like, hooray, we can opt out of this body
image hamster wheel, It's still one that's open. Two guys.
It seems like women can't really do the same and
then be celebrated for it, and then be celebrated well,
other women will celebrate other women. In terms of all
(25:11):
the body positivity posts you see all over the place
on social media. Ladies love supporting ladies appreciating their bodies.
Most of the time women do it. Be kind to
other women, please, But it seems like, especially in this
more heteronormative context, that it's when you get the praise
from the opposite sex who says you are still desirable
(25:34):
to a lot of us just the way you are,
that then it becomes a valid choice. So that is
probably why Mackenzie Pearson's dad bought article, as opposed to
the previous dad bought articles that have been written on
the Odyssey by dudes, went so viral because here is
a straight girl saying the other straight girls find these
(25:58):
kinds of straight guys super attractive. Yeah, and then msn
uh In, in a wistful bit of philosophizing, says, but
where will this trend take us? Could the mom bod
be the lusted after shape for time will tell? And
I've got got my middle fingers in the air for
(26:21):
msn Because no, no, no, there's no such thing as
the lusted after mom body in this context, in the
eat all the pizza, drink all the beer like the
frat boys context, the mom bod is literally only the
bod that produces children. In terms of the way we
talk about it and think about it and the way
(26:42):
that it's acceptable for a woman to be bigger. Well,
especially if we're operating from this idea that dad bod
serves to soothe women's insecurities romantic, physical, sexual, and otherwise,
then a mom body is not going to operate in
the same way, because at no point in our cultural
(27:03):
history has a larger, fleshier woman, a woman with just
a body that isn't like a super banging body, been
seen as a way to sooth any kind of male insecurity. Yeah,
you know, I mean, and I'm just talking like cultural
(27:24):
values here and Lyndy West, who has spoken openly for
a long time about being a fat woman, fat acceptance,
body image in general, had a lot to say about
this on Twitter, and not surprisingly, yeah, she says that
you know, it's not that the dad bot isn't cool.
All bods are cool. But can you imagine the abuse
(27:46):
women would take if we declared Momba the hot new bod.
It wouldn't be a bunch of cute listicles, is what
I'm saying. Honestly, dad bot is pure male privilege. And actually,
she says, we do have dialogue around Momba. It's called
fixing your post baby body. And this is where we
get into the mom shell trend, because of course with
(28:10):
dad bod, everyone starts asking about, well, what's what's mom bod?
Where's the mom bod trend? When is that going to happen? Well,
guess what it did happen, and it's called the mom
shell And it's what we talked about in our Mother's
Day episodes on the celebrity Baby Bump Watch and then
the celebrity focused baby weight Loss Race. This whole idea
of get your pre pregnancy body back as quickly as possible,
(28:34):
which psc it doesn't really exist, like your body is
your body and you're not it never you never lost it.
It's it's just there and you had a child. It's
the idea of the milf. But the thing is, the
dad bod mainly applies to college guys who aren't actually
literally fathers for the most part. I mean, plenty of
(28:55):
of guys who are dad's or or dad age have
definitely appropriated it and been like, yes, this is me
and I'm gonna revel in my dad body. But anytime
you're talking about you're trying to equate a momba and
a dad bod. The mom bad has earned her tiger stripes,
as Mackenzie Pearson write in a follow up article, But
having children right and and what Mackenzie is talking about
(29:18):
in terms of, you know, a woman who has had
a child having stretch marks or perhaps scars from acessarian section, like, yeah,
that is in a very real sense of the word
a mom bad. But culturally, the mom bads that are
most praised, like the mom shells, are the celebrities who
look like they never were pregnant. They're fitter than you
(29:41):
and I will ever be and you brought up such
an important point about the fact that dad body relates
nothing whatsoever to having a child at some point, whereas
the mom bad as being something super sexy and desirable
among st college dudes. It's never gonna be a thing
(30:03):
because of how much people really get panicky over the
idea of sexualizing women once motherhood happens. I mean, we
talked about this with Demi Moore's Andy Leibowitz pregnancy photo
where she's naked and she's holding her breasts, and it
was very shocking to a lot of people because here
(30:24):
is a woman who is full term pregnant, and yet
she's posing in a sexy way, and we don't know
what to do with that. That's very much a conflict.
And when it comes to Mrs Robinson's and milts, they're
desirable because they're hot despite being a mom, not because
their mom, not because they look like moms. And yeah,
(30:45):
so there's never an equivalent. A dad bod belongs to
a twenty year old college guy, but a mom bod
belongs to a thirty five year old woman who has
had children. You're not gonna say that a twenty year
old girl at college and a sorority has a mom
by because likely she would be offended. Honestly, Oh yeah, yeah.
It's like, listen, I wear mom jeans and I like
(31:08):
to cut off a mom jeans in the summertime. I
can wear some mom jeans, and I've gotten made fun
of for wearing mom jeans by extension like a mom bad.
Like I can get over people mocking my mom jeans,
but my mom bad that would be feel like a
little bit more of a slight in a way. But
that says so much though. The very fact that would
be insulting says so much about how women's bodies are
(31:31):
treated as they age and what we think of when
we think of a mom bad. But at the same time, though, Caroline,
what do we think about guys grown men, not just
college guys, but more so middle aged guys who are
like legit dads with like actual literal dad bodies, who
(31:52):
really have found that some validation for their physique with
this whole dad body thing. The guys who have said,
you know what, I have in a little embarrassed about
my spare tire, but this really gave me a boost
that I need because that was something that we heard
from for instance from listener Gregory, who posted about this
on our Facebook page, where he was saying, you know,
(32:13):
like I I kind of like it in a way.
I kind of like that this is that this exists now. Well,
I mean I think, you know, like you pointed out
earlier with how great lady the lady body positivity is.
I mean, I think any body positivity is great. Any
(32:33):
support for anyone about their body is great. You know,
I love your body, be happy in it. Um. But
I mean, I think it's kind of always been okay
for guys to be whatever shape. I mean, if we're
talking pop culturally, it's always been okay for guys to
look however, except for morbidly obese in pop culture. Um,
(32:54):
and that's something that hasn't been true for women. But
playing Devil's advocate for a moment, though, does that sentiment
of well, you know what, it's always been fine for
you to have a body, you know, and you don't
get it? Does that do a disservice so to men,
like by turning them into a monolith as we never
appreciate as women and saying you, guys, this is the
(33:15):
way it is for you. Just accept the cultural value
that's given to you. We're not gonna acknowledge that you
individually have body images on your own, and that when
you look in the mirror, and that when you, you know,
want to have sex with someone, that certain feelings process
through you in individual kinds of ways as well. Oh yeah,
I mean, I I absolutely I can totally see that,
(33:38):
And I can totally see how reading a column by
an attractive nineteen year old girl telling you that you're
desirable could be a nice morale boost. So it seems
like the problem isn't dad bod. The frustration, rather is
that male bodies just generally are consistently validated. They're kind
(34:02):
of they're kind of always being given given the cookies,
and women are being told to run that cookie off,
but not too much, yeah, because otherwise you're vain. Yeah,
otherwise you're too vain. But you can't, Yeah, you can't
be too too thin to the point of skinny, but
to not thin to the point of to the point
of thick, as as Mackenzie Pearson would put it, So
(34:25):
interesting too, I want to hear from listeners about the
curby versus thick distinction. That said a lot to me too,
That a lot to me also because I feel like
Curvy is at least endowed um with some positive connotations,
you know, like Curvy can still be like, oh well,
(34:46):
she's like a Marilyn Monroe. But Thick almost carries with
it like and I'm not saying this, I'm not saying
thick is bad, but I'm saying thick almost carries with
it more negative connotations. And so there you have the
writer of the Dad body column not even she can't
she there is no there is no parallel wh I.
But when it comes to Thick, though, I will say anecdotally,
(35:07):
I completely disagree. When I hear thick, I hear a
big butt and thick thighs. I think of Beyonce and
Kim Kardashian and the entire like big Butts episode that
we did a while back. That's what I hear when
I hear yeah, but I I can't yeah, And I
(35:28):
don't disagree with you, which is not a mom bod
though in my mind now, And I mean, I don't
disagree with you in terms of thinking of like Beyonce,
who's a great body. But I don't know that that's
what Mackenzie Pearson meant. Yeah. Yeah, So Mackenzie Pearson. If
you're listening, just call us up at Hive Dad Bods.
We'll be on the horn waiting to hear from you.
(35:48):
But listeners, we really want to hear from you about
this because we already have heard so many requests, so
now we want to hear your thoughts and feedback and
responses to the dad body and owners of dad Bods.
We also want to hear from you. Mom's Stabbitt House
Stuffwork dot Com is our email address. You can also
tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast and messages on Facebook,
(36:12):
and we've got a couple of messages to share with you.
All right now, Okay, well, I have a letter here
from Courtney. It's sort of a two parter. It's half
carpentry and half women peeing. So let's just dive into this.
Perfect yeah, perfect, um, all things sminty, She says. First
(36:33):
of all, i want to thank you for the podcast
about carpentry. I've recently been looking into new education for
new career options, as I feel like the education I
have has not set me up for any careers that
I'm really interested in. I've never really considered carpentry until
your podcast, but I enjoy making things and am now
seriously looking into it. I just ordered hammer Head by
(36:54):
Nina McLaughlin and it should be on the way to
my house soon. I can't wait to read more of
her story. I also looked up college carpentry programs in
my area and there's an interesting program starting at a
local college in Waterloo, Ontario for women only. It's government funded,
so it's free to eligible women those who were either
unemployed or underemployed. Seems like it could potentially be a
(37:16):
great way to get more women in the field. I
also wanted to comment on the letter you read recently
in response to your hunting episode, where the writer talked
about female urination devices. I think that you should definitely
do a podcast, YouTube video, or something on the subject.
The writer mentioned the cold, but for me, the issue
(37:38):
was always privacy. I did field work for a few
seasons and we were often without porta potties and working
in an open farm field. The guys would just walk
a few feet to the side and turn their backs,
but for girls it was a lot harder to find
the privacy we needed. We would usually find a bathroom
in town during lunch, but sometimes you need to pee
more often it was a constant conversation topic among the
(37:58):
women and almost all ways on our minds, is ordering
this large coffee going to be worth needing to take
a twenty minute walk to the closest tree or bush?
And that's probably a bit of health and safety issue
on a hot day when we shouldn't be limiting water
intake to avoid having to pay too Often, female urination
devices or fuds were occasionally mentioned in jokes as kind
(38:19):
of a weird, ridiculous thing anyone should be embarrassed to
even consider using. But if they can solve something that
is more than a minor inconvenience and often a very
real problem for women, maybe we should learn to love
and embrace the fud. And I say, corny, yeah, we
absolutely should embrace the fud, And we we talked a
little bit about it in our potty Politics episode a
(38:40):
while back. We did mention things like the pmate when
you go to music festivals and you have to go
into a disgusting porta potty or or like in your case,
there's just kind of nowhere to go and you don't
want to pop a squat and expose yourself to the elements,
slash your coworkers. Uh so, so maybe maybe it's time
to focus more on it. Listeners, let us know should
(39:01):
we do a FUD episode, And if you have FUD
stories to share with us so we can read, uh,
please send them our way. Mom stuff at house stuffworks
dot com. I've got a letter here from Evelyn, subject
line from a first time trimester first timer, and this
is relevant to our dad body conversation, so she says,
(39:22):
I wanted to write in with some thoughts on how
it feels to be pregnant and to think about the
pregnant body and popular culture. First of all, the first
trimester is probably the least mediatized trimester, first because it's
the time when a woman is the least visibly pregnant,
and second because most women are advised to keep the
pregnancy secret until the second trimester. This is because the
incidence of miscarriage is much higher than the first trimester,
(39:45):
and most people don't want to publicize that. In other words,
I'm part of the least represented group of pregnant women
in the media. While women with baby bombs get unwanted
attention from strangers on the street, I probably only seem
like a bloated pimpley, really tired looking woman commuting on
public transportation. Every day, I blend in or maybe even
become a little more visible as I gained baby weight
(40:07):
without a visible baby. Logically, I know that I'm gaining
the right amount of weight, and that a lot of
it is my body building up stores of liquids and
fats for the rest of my pregnancy. However, it's hard
not to just feel like I'm being judged unfairly for
my extra girth and physical weakness. I can't tell work
friends the real reason why I'm missing out on certain
outings that I'm plain exhausted and I don't think I
(40:28):
can stomach the food, so I have to tell them
I have some other commitment or illness. I can't very
well take up a pregnant woman's seat on the bus
without people thinking I'm rude. And finally, I have the
uncomfortable suspicion that all of my acquaintances secretly think I'm
suddenly getting fat for no reason and are judging me
for it. As a person who's never been the object
of fat shaming, I'm becoming acutely aware of it. So
(40:50):
actually I'm looking at the second trimester with a certain
amount of hope. Because there is a real media presence
of women with baby bumps, I feel like I'll have
more of an instant idea nity when I'm walking around
in public. I might actually get offered a seat on
a crowded bus. I won't need to spend mental energy
making up lies to get out of drinking or tiring activities.
I have a ready made excuse if I don't look
(41:12):
put together, energetic and fit. In conclusion, I feel like
the difficulties of the first trimester morning sickness, exhaustion, food aversions, bloating, anxiety,
and adjusting to a pregnant body are really avoided in
the media. Morning sickness might get some airplay, but it's
hardly glamorous, whereas there seems to be a trend of
aestheticizing the baby bump that I look forward to. Rightly
(41:34):
or wrongly, I don't know yet. Well, Eveyonen, thanks so
much for sharing your experiences and good clock with the
rest of your pregnancy, and we want to hear from
you as well. Listeners. Mom stuff at house stuffworks dot
com is our email address and for links to all
of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,
and podcasts, including this one. So you can read all
(41:55):
of our Dad Bob sources, head on over to stuff
Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Isn't how Stuff Works dot
com
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.