April 27, 2011 • 20 mins
When people think of spies, they often picture men like James Bond. Yet throughout history women have also had careers as spies. Listen in to learn more about notable female spies, sex as a espionage tactic, stereotypes and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?
From House Step Words dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly. Molly. I just
(00:20):
learned a rather mind being affect about you really earlier
this morning, from me or from someone else from you, Okay,
I'm from Tableau and Gossip, Molly. I learned that you
have never and this is surprising because you were well
versed in film, You've never seen a James Bond movie.
(00:45):
That's true. Never, not a one, not a one. When
people argue about who the best James Bond is I have,
I have no dog in the fight, like I couldn't
name them all to save my life. One I have
no idea about it. One upside of that, I will say,
at least you never get the song gold Fringer stuck
in your head like it has been stuck in my
(01:06):
head all morning. No now I am. I am blissfully
ignorant of the James Bond world. Do you just not
want to see it? Um? I guess not. It seems
like a big commitment. It seems like, once you see one,
you got to see them all. Oh no, I've just
seen a handful. Alright, Well, people come ride in and
tell me which ones to see. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell
give Molly some recommendations. Five James Bond film. But um,
(01:27):
you know, James Bond came up because our topic of
the day of spies spies, and I would say, when
most people think of spies, James Bond is the He's
the head Han show. Yeah, double O seven. He's the
most famous spy in the world. And uh, we wanted
to take a look at some unsung heroes at espionage.
And you might guess from our podcast that it's going
to be the ladies. Be the ladies. And we found
(01:50):
out in two thousand and eight that Britain's secret spy
agency am I six was trying to recruit more lady spies,
and particularly mother's. It was funny. They were encouraging moms
to apply and assured women that they would not be
used as honey pots. Yeah, honeypots. I think it's impossible
(02:11):
to separate female spies from sex because of these honeypots. Yeah,
and we don't even know how often a honeypot or
a honey trap is used, but basically, as soon as
there's a female spy, people assume that she's having sex
with her targets to get information, because whils what a
dude talk to a woman then if you wanted to
get into her pants. And there's actually a recent news
story about an Israeli rabbi who endorsed honeypot operations because
(02:34):
you know, further go to the country if you gotta
do what you gotta do. It's not a sansoy son
but well no, but he said, if you were married
female spy, you need to divorce your husband first, then
go about your honey pot and ways, and then the
husband could remarry you. Yeah, technicalities, but Brittain is saying, hey,
you know, we're not going to do the honey pot ways,
(02:56):
but we we think that you'd be a great spy
mother mother. But this is kind of funny. Though they
were they were worried. The British Secret Service agency was
a little concerned they had had a drop in female
recruits in recent years because of a British TV thriller
in which a female agent's head was dipped in a
(03:16):
deep friar. So they're like, oh, balba and so they
started this, uh, this revitalized campaign to say women, you
won't end up in deep friers, we won't make you
an impulse and ductresses promise, and uh, you know they
have to do this actually because there is an affirmative
(03:37):
action movement going on. They have to diversify the department.
But they are saying that, you know, women can bring
these special skills to the spy table. And uh, you know,
Britain's embraced spies goes back to nine five when this
UM confidential document was made and it was just released
in the last few years and uh, you know, World
War two had just ended, and so the spy agency was,
(04:00):
you know, evaluating how things went during the war. And
this guy named Maxwell Knight wrote a report. And I
should note that some people think that Maxwell Knight was
a model for m and James Bond. Granted I don't
know who that is because I don't watch James Bond movies,
but he apparently was influential in them. UM. But he
wrote this report about how the female spies had done
and he said, we need to get rid of we
(04:22):
need to get rid of these perceptions that women are
bad spies. As long as they're not over sexed, they're fine. Yeah, well,
over sex or under sex. He wrote. If over sex,
it is clear that this will play an overwriting part
in their mental processes. If under sex, they will not
be so mentally alert, and there are other faculties will
(04:43):
suffer accordingly. And it is difficult to imagine anything more
terrifying than for an officer to become landed with a
woman agent who suffers from an overdose of sex. I mean,
you know it's true. I mean it's kind of like heroin.
I mean you just the write amount, yeah, just right amount,
and you're fine. But a little too much and you
(05:03):
are you are worthless and dead. That's it. You might
I wonder if that's too little and you're not you're
not mentally I wonder if the current job seekers are
having to make comments on how sex they are. I mean, yes,
it's nineteen five. The guy is not using the most
politically correct language. And because there is that stereotype that
all women are having sex with their targets, he's kind
(05:25):
of saying, you know, we don't want those women. We
don't win her getting into it just to have sex, right,
And there's always the risk of a woman agent falling
in love with someone, because if they're having all this
sex with someone, we're going to get a touch. And
he also gives us a bad handed compliment in saying
that the difference between men and women is that men
are conceded and women are vain. And the why this
(05:48):
makes a difference is that most of the indiscretions in espionage,
accordingly apparently are are because of the men's conceit. They
will be uh, you know, trying to get you know,
Laurie from their spy activities. Yeah, maybe they'll take too
big of a risk just to pull off a mission.
But he said, the women, because they're vain, they are
(06:09):
going to express their joy at being a spy by
just wearing nicer clothes and taking more pride in their appearance.
So that's how I express my joy podcasting. It's not,
you know, it's not the most um. It's certainly not
going to take its place among the great documents that
have helped women get to where they are today. But
at least the guy was making the point that female spies,
(06:32):
he was saying, they have something that we need to
be exploiting, we need to be using, we need to
bring them in on more things. And that's pretty admirable.
But then in say vainly exactly, Uh, but it's taken
a while four some of these agencies to catch on
to all of that, including the c i A because
(06:53):
in Time magazine was reporting on a sexual discrimination class
actually in lawsuit filed against the Central Intelligence Agencies Directorate
of Operations, which is the service that gathers intelligence overseas,
and basically a group of female spies, UH was alleging
(07:14):
that the CIA was discriminating against them and pushing them
into less prominent positions just because of their possession of vaginas.
And I do think that, you know, in this article,
the CIA made some interesting points about why women can't,
you know, be in the field the way men can,
especially if you look at our current landscape with so
(07:35):
much trouble going on in the Middle East. Uh, it's
harder to send a woman there. For example, you know,
in Saudi Arabia, she couldn't drive a car. Burk as
our standard clothing for a lot of women there. So
it's it's interesting to see how, um, the CIA is
responding to the current situation in the world. But if
there were ever people who could disguise themselves and get information. Anyways, Uh,
(07:57):
it's women based on some historical samples that we drommed
up because disguises would be nothing new. Two female spies
or using their feminine wiles or uh just being all
around badasses, yeah, or just taking advantage of this idea
that women are in the background, cooking and cleaning and
they're not paying attention to this manly talk. That's how
(08:18):
like all the spy secrets of the past have been
have been one and so we wanted to spend some
time talking about some pretty cool female spies. First and foremost,
we got to talk about Virginia Hall because to me,
she is the coolest lit spa of World War Two.
And she had a bum leg that she nicknamed what
(08:41):
was Eugene Cuthbert Cuthbert, I don't know where I got Eugene. Yeah,
it was her artificial leg. And so when she was
trying to escape Nazi she had to walk on foot
out of France, and so she sends this message to
her superiors, like Cuthbert has given me some trouble, and
they're like, if Cuthbert gives trouble, eliminate him. But we
(09:02):
gotta tell people what what Virginia Hall did. Of course
she was. She was a decoder. Yeah, she um and
it's so cool. She joined the Special Operations Executive in
Britain just because she met some guy on a train,
and the guy on the train had the foresight to
see that this was going to be a pretty great spy.
(09:23):
So she goes underground and works for the British and uh.
And then later when she has to escape when the
Nazis getter, she she says, you know what, the first
thing every kind of like a desk post, and she's like,
I need to go back in. And so she goes
in as a wireless radio operator to break codes and
to avoid detection because Nazis had posters everywhere like where's
(09:45):
the lady with the limp? The woman with the limp.
She disguised herself as an elderly milk maid and she
would just kind of like shuffle around. Some people couldn't
tell she was limping, and she'd wear these really big
skirts so that no one could tell she was limping,
and she could hide things in her skirt and she
could you help the parachute drops with supplies get in
for the resistance fighters and she was reporting German movement.
(10:07):
She was so cool. Yeah, she armed and trained three
battalions of French resistance fighters as D Day was approaching
and listen to this. In her final report to headquarters,
Hall stated that her team had destroyed four bridges, derailed
freight trains, severed a key rail one in multiple places,
and downed telephone lines. And they were also credited with
(10:29):
killing hundred and fifty Germans and capturing five hundred more,
all with Virginia Hall and her old trusty Cuthbert fake
leg Yeah, and you know, they wanted to give her
all these awards and recognize her first service, but she
was like no, you know, she kind of recognized that
that was not what a spy was supposed to do.
Spies do not get the glory. Spies fade away. And
(10:51):
that's why her name has come up a lot in
recent years because they've just not been awarding all her
awards to her family and she was decorated so many times,
but she is only one of many. Now, one household
name that you would associate more with the kitchen than
with spy rings is Julia Child. She during World War Two,
(11:12):
she worked with the Office of Strategic Services, which was
a predecessor to the c I A. And she worked
on cooking up cooking up a shark repellent for explosives
on ships in World War Two because the problem was
the sharks would butt up against these explosives and then
prematurely detonate them. Whoops. Inconvenient, Yeah, a little inconvenient. So
(11:35):
she helped figure out a way to to cope these
these explosives in shark repelling chemicals. Pretty cool, Yeah, and
she makes a killers tofflay too. What a What all? Lead? Chris?
And can I tell you about some of my favorite
Civil War spies? Yeah, because I am fascinated by a
couple of as in particular that I want to talk about.
(11:56):
Let's start with Elizabeth van lou a spy for the Union.
She lived in Richmond, but she was a un sympathizer,
believe that slavery was wrong, and uh so she she
took about spying to to take care of that. And
the way she would get most of her information is
she would pretend to be crazy a great disguise, Like
(12:17):
everyone called her crazy Bet because um, you know, she
would dress, you know, unkempt, and she would um just
kind of muttered herself as she walked around town. So
everyone thought she was just you know, off, you know,
you kind of start to ignore those people she was
on a period or something, that she was insane. They
could be synonyms to some people, but whatever. Um so, yeah,
(12:38):
everyone is not suspecting all crazy Bet. She's just the
town's crazy lady. But meanwhile she's walking around town eavesdropping
on all the soldiers who were stationed there, and she
sends the information back and when people found out she
wasn't crazy, they actually made them quite quite mad obviously.
And she, you know, because she believes slavery was wrong,
she was freeing all. She would buy slaves and free
(12:59):
them immediately. But she made one good friend in a
in a former slave named Mary Bowser. And Mary Bowser,
just as Crazy Bet was pretending to be crazy, Mary
bows pretended to be illiterate and stupid, when in fact
she could read and she was quite intelligent. And so,
you know, crazy Bet goes to Jefferson Davis, president of the
(13:20):
the Confederacy, and says, hey, I got a good servant
for you if you want one. Uh, why don't you
want to take on this Mary Bowser? And uh so,
Mary Bowser is walking around Jefferson Davis's home, pretending to
be illiterate but reading all the documents he leaves on
his desk and reporting back. So uh, pretty too, pretty good.
(13:42):
Ruses to get some information being stupid and being crazy,
But when that won't work, you've got to turn to
some disguises of men. Yeah, this was um, I think
you're about to talk about one possible ancestor of yours
who went to great and kind of controversial lengths to
(14:03):
disguise herself because she actually darkened her skin so that
she could pass as a black man. Yes, I was
thrilled to see my last name pop up in the
list of great spies with Sarah Edmonds. Uh. And you know,
her father was always disappointed she wasn't a boy. So
I don't know if this is what led her to
(14:23):
take up cross dressing, as her disguise might have something
to do with it. But she wants to fight the war.
She wants to fight for the Union, so she dresses
as a man and takes the name Frank Thompson and
goes and fights in the army. And uh, then she
gets the opportunity to be a spy. While she's being
old Frank Thompson. So that's when she takes on this
cover of a former slave named Cuff, and she goes
(14:45):
south and gets a job and just keeps her eyes
and ears open and reports back all this information for
the Union Army. So um, even after the war ended,
she she kept getting disguises and she apparently just really
liked dressing as a man to do her spying. But
you know, whatever gets the information, it worked for her. Now,
(15:06):
we have offered up many wonderful examples of American female spies,
but to close, we got to talk about Mota Hai,
probably the most famous spy, even though some people aren't
even sure whether she was a spy. Yeah, and and
Stuffy miss in history class does have a whole episode
(15:26):
on Mota Harre, So if you want more on her,
you should go over and check that out. But let's
just let's let's give him a little, a little tid bit.
So during World War One, Mata Harri, who has uh
you know, she's not born Mada Hard, but we're just
gonna call it Manhari because that's her exotic dancing name,
which she takes up after she divorces her husband. And
(15:47):
she becomes quite a sensation. Her sensual performances became the
attraction of major European cities, and men became obsessed with her.
They just all wanted to come see her in court
her and woo her affections. And among those men were
many high ranking French and German military officers. And as
(16:10):
World War One proceeds, some people became suspicious that Mada
Harry was spying for the Germans, so France puts her
on trial. France puts her on trial. The charges are
never proven, but nevertheless she's convicted of espionage and executed
by a firing squad in nineteen seventeen. But listen to
(16:32):
this little story. She refused to be blindfolded, and she
smiled and blew a kiss to the firing squad as
the fatal shots were fired. And I just think that's
such good, a good lesson for all of us who
may one day face a firing squad. Hopefully that will
be none of us. But if you're gonna be remembered,
you gotta do something kind of crazy. And if you're
going to go into exotic dancing, be as good as
(16:54):
as you as you can be, so you'll be courted
by royalty, military, high ranking officers. If you are trying
to dissuade a daughter or you know a friend from
exag dancing, maybe tell her that she might be convicted
of spying. So many cautionary tales in this story. Yeah,
there's no world war going on, so that one might
not have as much argument, might not have as much
pol but nevertheless, mona Harry, super cool story. Lots of
(17:18):
these spy stories are really cool stories, and so we
only highlighted a few. We love to hear more from
you guys about your favorite spies. Everyone's got one trading cards.
Oh and again a James Bond movie for Molly to watch,
because come on, people, it's it's a search, yes and
see and James Bond movie. Oh goodness. Um, yeah, so
let us know your thoughts mom stuff at how so
works dot com. You can also leave all the movies
(17:38):
and discuss James James Bond related things on Facebook or
on Twitter because we check all of those diligently. And
right now I will read a comment from Helena. It
was about the podcast about whether it costs more to
be a man of woman when we talked about shaving cream,
and she writes, my sister, and I've always used the
(17:59):
men shaved john is there's which are cheaper. However, as
Barbara's all said, and you send the podcast, they will
rest in the shower and leave rings on the side
of your bath to have their tricky to remove. This
is easily solved, though I put duct tape around the
bottom of my can. It doesn't look very classy, but
who's looking right? Using men stuff must becoming more popular, however,
as Real Simple magazine recently recommended putting on an old
(18:19):
beer cancouzy on your shaved can to keep it from
making those rest rings. My legs may smell like a
barber shop quartet, but cheaper wins out for me. Very
cool tip. I've got an email here from Eden in Norway,
and Eden writes in response to our Royal Weddings podcasts
on Prince William and Kate Middleton getting married that if
(18:41):
you want a truly modern royal couple, look no further
than the Norwegian Crown Prince Hike on Magnus apologies for
most pronciations and his Crown Princess met Merit. Not only
was she a commoner, she was a single parent. Also,
it is their daughter that is next in line after
crown and high com because the Norwegian law of succession
(19:03):
has already been changed so both boys and girls can
inherit the throne. Perhaps the royal conservatives of the United
Kingdom should lighten up just a little bit. Oh, I
like this little Norway UK little poking, kind of like
Canada in the US. That said, most people here in
the UK don't seem to care about Kate Milton's background.
And I think the general consensus is that they're good
to match. But I mean, let's read between the lines.
(19:25):
Norway has gotta going on. It's what I'm here. And well,
I mean we did do that podcast about gender gender
roles in Norway. Finlin, Yeah, other country. And it is
cool that the crown will pass down to the sub child. Yeah,
and I was reading a little bit more about this
norweg Gander family. Very scandalous. Don't you have to get
all your your British news from I mean all your
royal news from the Brits. Look in the Norway Norway.
(19:48):
So if you have any emails to send our way
again our email addresses mom stuff at house stuff works
dot com. Head on over to Facebook two and like
us if you would and leave us some comments there
and again. You can follow us on Twitter as well
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You from how stuff works dot com for moralness and
(20:13):
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twelve Camray. It's ready, Are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?
From House Step Words dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly. Molly. I just
(00:20):
learned a rather mind being affect about you really earlier
this morning, from me or from someone else from you, Okay,
I'm from Tableau and Gossip, Molly. I learned that you
have never and this is surprising because you were well
versed in film, You've never seen a James Bond movie.
(00:45):
That's true. Never, not a one, not a one. When
people argue about who the best James Bond is I have,
I have no dog in the fight, like I couldn't
name them all to save my life. One I have
no idea about it. One upside of that, I will say,
at least you never get the song gold Fringer stuck
in your head like it has been stuck in my
(01:06):
head all morning. No now I am. I am blissfully
ignorant of the James Bond world. Do you just not
want to see it? Um? I guess not. It seems
like a big commitment. It seems like, once you see one,
you got to see them all. Oh no, I've just
seen a handful. Alright, Well, people come ride in and
tell me which ones to see. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell
give Molly some recommendations. Five James Bond film. But um,
(01:27):
you know, James Bond came up because our topic of
the day of spies spies, and I would say, when
most people think of spies, James Bond is the He's
the head Han show. Yeah, double O seven. He's the
most famous spy in the world. And uh, we wanted
to take a look at some unsung heroes at espionage.
And you might guess from our podcast that it's going
to be the ladies. Be the ladies. And we found
(01:50):
out in two thousand and eight that Britain's secret spy
agency am I six was trying to recruit more lady spies,
and particularly mother's. It was funny. They were encouraging moms
to apply and assured women that they would not be
used as honey pots. Yeah, honeypots. I think it's impossible
(02:11):
to separate female spies from sex because of these honeypots. Yeah,
and we don't even know how often a honeypot or
a honey trap is used, but basically, as soon as
there's a female spy, people assume that she's having sex
with her targets to get information, because whils what a
dude talk to a woman then if you wanted to
get into her pants. And there's actually a recent news
story about an Israeli rabbi who endorsed honeypot operations because
(02:34):
you know, further go to the country if you gotta
do what you gotta do. It's not a sansoy son
but well no, but he said, if you were married
female spy, you need to divorce your husband first, then
go about your honey pot and ways, and then the
husband could remarry you. Yeah, technicalities, but Brittain is saying, hey,
you know, we're not going to do the honey pot ways,
(02:56):
but we we think that you'd be a great spy
mother mother. But this is kind of funny. Though they
were they were worried. The British Secret Service agency was
a little concerned they had had a drop in female
recruits in recent years because of a British TV thriller
in which a female agent's head was dipped in a
(03:16):
deep friar. So they're like, oh, balba and so they
started this, uh, this revitalized campaign to say women, you
won't end up in deep friers, we won't make you
an impulse and ductresses promise, and uh, you know they
have to do this actually because there is an affirmative
(03:37):
action movement going on. They have to diversify the department.
But they are saying that, you know, women can bring
these special skills to the spy table. And uh, you know,
Britain's embraced spies goes back to nine five when this
UM confidential document was made and it was just released
in the last few years and uh, you know, World
War two had just ended, and so the spy agency was,
(04:00):
you know, evaluating how things went during the war. And
this guy named Maxwell Knight wrote a report. And I
should note that some people think that Maxwell Knight was
a model for m and James Bond. Granted I don't
know who that is because I don't watch James Bond movies,
but he apparently was influential in them. UM. But he
wrote this report about how the female spies had done
and he said, we need to get rid of we
(04:22):
need to get rid of these perceptions that women are
bad spies. As long as they're not over sexed, they're fine. Yeah, well,
over sex or under sex. He wrote. If over sex,
it is clear that this will play an overwriting part
in their mental processes. If under sex, they will not
be so mentally alert, and there are other faculties will
(04:43):
suffer accordingly. And it is difficult to imagine anything more
terrifying than for an officer to become landed with a
woman agent who suffers from an overdose of sex. I mean,
you know it's true. I mean it's kind of like heroin.
I mean you just the write amount, yeah, just right amount,
and you're fine. But a little too much and you
(05:03):
are you are worthless and dead. That's it. You might
I wonder if that's too little and you're not you're
not mentally I wonder if the current job seekers are
having to make comments on how sex they are. I mean, yes,
it's nineteen five. The guy is not using the most
politically correct language. And because there is that stereotype that
all women are having sex with their targets, he's kind
(05:25):
of saying, you know, we don't want those women. We
don't win her getting into it just to have sex, right,
And there's always the risk of a woman agent falling
in love with someone, because if they're having all this
sex with someone, we're going to get a touch. And
he also gives us a bad handed compliment in saying
that the difference between men and women is that men
are conceded and women are vain. And the why this
(05:48):
makes a difference is that most of the indiscretions in espionage,
accordingly apparently are are because of the men's conceit. They
will be uh, you know, trying to get you know,
Laurie from their spy activities. Yeah, maybe they'll take too
big of a risk just to pull off a mission.
But he said, the women, because they're vain, they are
(06:09):
going to express their joy at being a spy by
just wearing nicer clothes and taking more pride in their appearance.
So that's how I express my joy podcasting. It's not,
you know, it's not the most um. It's certainly not
going to take its place among the great documents that
have helped women get to where they are today. But
at least the guy was making the point that female spies,
(06:32):
he was saying, they have something that we need to
be exploiting, we need to be using, we need to
bring them in on more things. And that's pretty admirable.
But then in say vainly exactly, Uh, but it's taken
a while four some of these agencies to catch on
to all of that, including the c i A because
(06:53):
in Time magazine was reporting on a sexual discrimination class
actually in lawsuit filed against the Central Intelligence Agencies Directorate
of Operations, which is the service that gathers intelligence overseas,
and basically a group of female spies, UH was alleging
(07:14):
that the CIA was discriminating against them and pushing them
into less prominent positions just because of their possession of vaginas.
And I do think that, you know, in this article,
the CIA made some interesting points about why women can't,
you know, be in the field the way men can,
especially if you look at our current landscape with so
(07:35):
much trouble going on in the Middle East. Uh, it's
harder to send a woman there. For example, you know,
in Saudi Arabia, she couldn't drive a car. Burk as
our standard clothing for a lot of women there. So
it's it's interesting to see how, um, the CIA is
responding to the current situation in the world. But if
there were ever people who could disguise themselves and get information. Anyways, Uh,
(07:57):
it's women based on some historical samples that we drommed
up because disguises would be nothing new. Two female spies
or using their feminine wiles or uh just being all
around badasses, yeah, or just taking advantage of this idea
that women are in the background, cooking and cleaning and
they're not paying attention to this manly talk. That's how
(08:18):
like all the spy secrets of the past have been
have been one and so we wanted to spend some
time talking about some pretty cool female spies. First and foremost,
we got to talk about Virginia Hall because to me,
she is the coolest lit spa of World War Two.
And she had a bum leg that she nicknamed what
(08:41):
was Eugene Cuthbert Cuthbert, I don't know where I got Eugene. Yeah,
it was her artificial leg. And so when she was
trying to escape Nazi she had to walk on foot
out of France, and so she sends this message to
her superiors, like Cuthbert has given me some trouble, and
they're like, if Cuthbert gives trouble, eliminate him. But we
(09:02):
gotta tell people what what Virginia Hall did. Of course
she was. She was a decoder. Yeah, she um and
it's so cool. She joined the Special Operations Executive in
Britain just because she met some guy on a train,
and the guy on the train had the foresight to
see that this was going to be a pretty great spy.
(09:23):
So she goes underground and works for the British and uh.
And then later when she has to escape when the
Nazis getter, she she says, you know what, the first
thing every kind of like a desk post, and she's like,
I need to go back in. And so she goes
in as a wireless radio operator to break codes and
to avoid detection because Nazis had posters everywhere like where's
(09:45):
the lady with the limp? The woman with the limp.
She disguised herself as an elderly milk maid and she
would just kind of like shuffle around. Some people couldn't
tell she was limping, and she'd wear these really big
skirts so that no one could tell she was limping,
and she could hide things in her skirt and she
could you help the parachute drops with supplies get in
for the resistance fighters and she was reporting German movement.
(10:07):
She was so cool. Yeah, she armed and trained three
battalions of French resistance fighters as D Day was approaching
and listen to this. In her final report to headquarters,
Hall stated that her team had destroyed four bridges, derailed
freight trains, severed a key rail one in multiple places,
and downed telephone lines. And they were also credited with
(10:29):
killing hundred and fifty Germans and capturing five hundred more,
all with Virginia Hall and her old trusty Cuthbert fake
leg Yeah, and you know, they wanted to give her
all these awards and recognize her first service, but she
was like no, you know, she kind of recognized that
that was not what a spy was supposed to do.
Spies do not get the glory. Spies fade away. And
(10:51):
that's why her name has come up a lot in
recent years because they've just not been awarding all her
awards to her family and she was decorated so many times,
but she is only one of many. Now, one household
name that you would associate more with the kitchen than
with spy rings is Julia Child. She during World War Two,
(11:12):
she worked with the Office of Strategic Services, which was
a predecessor to the c I A. And she worked
on cooking up cooking up a shark repellent for explosives
on ships in World War Two because the problem was
the sharks would butt up against these explosives and then
prematurely detonate them. Whoops. Inconvenient, Yeah, a little inconvenient. So
(11:35):
she helped figure out a way to to cope these
these explosives in shark repelling chemicals. Pretty cool, Yeah, and
she makes a killers tofflay too. What a What all? Lead? Chris?
And can I tell you about some of my favorite
Civil War spies? Yeah, because I am fascinated by a
couple of as in particular that I want to talk about.
(11:56):
Let's start with Elizabeth van lou a spy for the Union.
She lived in Richmond, but she was a un sympathizer,
believe that slavery was wrong, and uh so she she
took about spying to to take care of that. And
the way she would get most of her information is
she would pretend to be crazy a great disguise, Like
(12:17):
everyone called her crazy Bet because um, you know, she
would dress, you know, unkempt, and she would um just
kind of muttered herself as she walked around town. So
everyone thought she was just you know, off, you know,
you kind of start to ignore those people she was
on a period or something, that she was insane. They
could be synonyms to some people, but whatever. Um so, yeah,
(12:38):
everyone is not suspecting all crazy Bet. She's just the
town's crazy lady. But meanwhile she's walking around town eavesdropping
on all the soldiers who were stationed there, and she
sends the information back and when people found out she
wasn't crazy, they actually made them quite quite mad obviously.
And she, you know, because she believes slavery was wrong,
she was freeing all. She would buy slaves and free
(12:59):
them immediately. But she made one good friend in a
in a former slave named Mary Bowser. And Mary Bowser,
just as Crazy Bet was pretending to be crazy, Mary
bows pretended to be illiterate and stupid, when in fact
she could read and she was quite intelligent. And so,
you know, crazy Bet goes to Jefferson Davis, president of the
(13:20):
the Confederacy, and says, hey, I got a good servant
for you if you want one. Uh, why don't you
want to take on this Mary Bowser? And uh so,
Mary Bowser is walking around Jefferson Davis's home, pretending to
be illiterate but reading all the documents he leaves on
his desk and reporting back. So uh, pretty too, pretty good.
(13:42):
Ruses to get some information being stupid and being crazy,
But when that won't work, you've got to turn to
some disguises of men. Yeah, this was um, I think
you're about to talk about one possible ancestor of yours
who went to great and kind of controversial lengths to
(14:03):
disguise herself because she actually darkened her skin so that
she could pass as a black man. Yes, I was
thrilled to see my last name pop up in the
list of great spies with Sarah Edmonds. Uh. And you know,
her father was always disappointed she wasn't a boy. So
I don't know if this is what led her to
(14:23):
take up cross dressing, as her disguise might have something
to do with it. But she wants to fight the war.
She wants to fight for the Union, so she dresses
as a man and takes the name Frank Thompson and
goes and fights in the army. And uh, then she
gets the opportunity to be a spy. While she's being
old Frank Thompson. So that's when she takes on this
cover of a former slave named Cuff, and she goes
(14:45):
south and gets a job and just keeps her eyes
and ears open and reports back all this information for
the Union Army. So um, even after the war ended,
she she kept getting disguises and she apparently just really
liked dressing as a man to do her spying. But
you know, whatever gets the information, it worked for her. Now,
(15:06):
we have offered up many wonderful examples of American female spies,
but to close, we got to talk about Mota Hai,
probably the most famous spy, even though some people aren't
even sure whether she was a spy. Yeah, and and
Stuffy miss in history class does have a whole episode
(15:26):
on Mota Harre, So if you want more on her,
you should go over and check that out. But let's
just let's let's give him a little, a little tid bit.
So during World War One, Mata Harri, who has uh
you know, she's not born Mada Hard, but we're just
gonna call it Manhari because that's her exotic dancing name,
which she takes up after she divorces her husband. And
(15:47):
she becomes quite a sensation. Her sensual performances became the
attraction of major European cities, and men became obsessed with her.
They just all wanted to come see her in court
her and woo her affections. And among those men were
many high ranking French and German military officers. And as
(16:10):
World War One proceeds, some people became suspicious that Mada
Harry was spying for the Germans, so France puts her
on trial. France puts her on trial. The charges are
never proven, but nevertheless she's convicted of espionage and executed
by a firing squad in nineteen seventeen. But listen to
(16:32):
this little story. She refused to be blindfolded, and she
smiled and blew a kiss to the firing squad as
the fatal shots were fired. And I just think that's
such good, a good lesson for all of us who
may one day face a firing squad. Hopefully that will
be none of us. But if you're gonna be remembered,
you gotta do something kind of crazy. And if you're
going to go into exotic dancing, be as good as
(16:54):
as you as you can be, so you'll be courted
by royalty, military, high ranking officers. If you are trying
to dissuade a daughter or you know a friend from
exag dancing, maybe tell her that she might be convicted
of spying. So many cautionary tales in this story. Yeah,
there's no world war going on, so that one might
not have as much argument, might not have as much
pol but nevertheless, mona Harry, super cool story. Lots of
(17:18):
these spy stories are really cool stories, and so we
only highlighted a few. We love to hear more from
you guys about your favorite spies. Everyone's got one trading cards.
Oh and again a James Bond movie for Molly to watch,
because come on, people, it's it's a search, yes and
see and James Bond movie. Oh goodness. Um, yeah, so
let us know your thoughts mom stuff at how so
works dot com. You can also leave all the movies
(17:38):
and discuss James James Bond related things on Facebook or
on Twitter because we check all of those diligently. And
right now I will read a comment from Helena. It
was about the podcast about whether it costs more to
be a man of woman when we talked about shaving cream,
and she writes, my sister, and I've always used the
(17:59):
men shaved john is there's which are cheaper. However, as
Barbara's all said, and you send the podcast, they will
rest in the shower and leave rings on the side
of your bath to have their tricky to remove. This
is easily solved, though I put duct tape around the
bottom of my can. It doesn't look very classy, but
who's looking right? Using men stuff must becoming more popular, however,
as Real Simple magazine recently recommended putting on an old
(18:19):
beer cancouzy on your shaved can to keep it from
making those rest rings. My legs may smell like a
barber shop quartet, but cheaper wins out for me. Very
cool tip. I've got an email here from Eden in Norway,
and Eden writes in response to our Royal Weddings podcasts
on Prince William and Kate Middleton getting married that if
(18:41):
you want a truly modern royal couple, look no further
than the Norwegian Crown Prince Hike on Magnus apologies for
most pronciations and his Crown Princess met Merit. Not only
was she a commoner, she was a single parent. Also,
it is their daughter that is next in line after
crown and high com because the Norwegian law of succession
(19:03):
has already been changed so both boys and girls can
inherit the throne. Perhaps the royal conservatives of the United
Kingdom should lighten up just a little bit. Oh, I
like this little Norway UK little poking, kind of like
Canada in the US. That said, most people here in
the UK don't seem to care about Kate Milton's background.
And I think the general consensus is that they're good
to match. But I mean, let's read between the lines.
(19:25):
Norway has gotta going on. It's what I'm here. And well,
I mean we did do that podcast about gender gender
roles in Norway. Finlin, Yeah, other country. And it is
cool that the crown will pass down to the sub child. Yeah,
and I was reading a little bit more about this
norweg Gander family. Very scandalous. Don't you have to get
all your your British news from I mean all your
royal news from the Brits. Look in the Norway Norway.
(19:48):
So if you have any emails to send our way
again our email addresses mom stuff at house stuff works
dot com. Head on over to Facebook two and like
us if you would and leave us some comments there
and again. You can follow us on Twitter as well
at Mom's Stuff podcast, and as always, you can read
our blog during the week, It's Stuff Mom Never Told
You from how stuff works dot com for moralness and
(20:13):
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