November 22, 2019 • 36 mins
As a culture, we are uncomfortably comfortable with mocking fangirls. Why is that? Spoiler alert, it's sexism. Anney and Samantha trace the history of fangirls and our dismissal of them, and discuss why fangirls run the world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steth.
I've never told to reproduction of I Heart Radio's How
Stuff Works. Today we're talking about band girls and girls. Yes,
actually really excited to talk about this. Forever ago we
(00:26):
did a video on fan girls and I have been
meaning to return to it ever since. And the timing
feels right because as you record this, Disney plus let's
just come out, and Frozen two is coming out next week.
My phone has already been bombarded with advice articles on
how to avoid getting earwormed with the new song, even
(00:49):
though same phone is the one that keeps playing that
song in Google Shuffle. This is why I don't listen
to Google Shuffle. It's giving me mixed messages, is it?
I think it has one message, which is pretty much
listening and go watch obsessed Bye bye bye. Right um,
and it's got me thinking all of this, how we
(01:11):
talk about fan girls and how we talk about the
things that they like. Uh yeah, and I also I
recently went to Disney and seeing all the little girls
in costumes. I have a particular soft spot for Ray
from Star Wars. Seeing girls in those costumes. Another Cube costume, Yeah,
that's good. Were you a fan girl of anything, Samantha, Um,
(01:31):
I actually fan girls over a few young boys in
my time. Jonathan Brandon's was my heart Throb r I
p UM when I was younger. But then I would
also get really obsessed with like Buffy and Saved by
the Bell, which I would watch religiously. Um. I could
probably still tell you all about all the episodes for
each one of those things. Um. And of course I
was really obsessed with like different music groups and new
(01:54):
kids on the block, with people about who was better
was a Joey girl okay? Um? In Sync. I'll actually
fought with my sister about who's better in sinker Backstreet
Boys and um. And I also had a really big yeah,
I love for boys the men because I just wanted
them to croon to me about how they loved me.
(02:14):
Oh that's that's great that you said that, because they're
going to be returning to that kind of idea very
end of the episode. So something to look forward to.
But what about you know, I know you've got a lot,
but give me a rundown. I was fan girling all
in all kinds of things. I was huge into Mary
Kay Nashley Young Herchilees Charmed Supernatural. Green Day is probably
(02:38):
my greatest example of if you were going to do
a classic, this is a fangirl. I would check all
the boxes for Great Day and that was probably the
big one. Harry Potter and Star Wars um and I
get star Gate one. Yeah. I also had and have
some fan girl tendencies around about a hundred other things
(03:00):
these days. But I suppose we should step back a
bit and define fangirl from dictionary dot com. Fangirl is
a female fan, especially one who is obsessive about comics, movies, music,
or science fiction. The Miriam Webster definition is a bit different.
A girl or woman who is an extremely, are overly
(03:22):
enthusiastic fan of someone or something. An extension of fan
girls is fan girling, which is basically the verb form um.
And then we have this from Urban Dictionary, the art
of obsessing over fandoms, the characters in the fandoms, the
actors who play the character. If the fandom is a
film or show, et cetera, just saying something to do
(03:43):
with a fan girl fandom will usually lead them to
frantically crashing into the room you're in, making high pitched
sounds that to you might sound meaningless, but to other
fan girls will make total science. Example. Wait, wait, do
you want to do this as a back and forth?
You want to? Okay, I'll be the I'll be the person. Okay.
So this is the example that Urban Dictionary gave, so
me Dean Winchester. Oh god, oh my god, Acholes said
(04:08):
the name baby up fangirling again. Uh and then she
passes up clap by the way. I have to I
have to ask, was it was the actual example supernatural? Yes,
(04:28):
that's hilarious because it is does fit right because I
feel like I've gotten into supernatural because of you was
a girl. Yeah, yeah, I bet you were. I bet
you were. So the sexiest Man Alive was announced from
People magazine and it's John Legend, who can also sing
to me all day long. Um. And there were several
(04:50):
several people who were really upset and because they wanted
they thought other people were better, because the people always
have opinions, and one of the names that kept coming
up us Dean Winchester or Jinson Knackles. So he's been
thrown out as being should have been the speciest man alive.
He's a finelooking spesstment. And you know, the thing we're
going to talk about this too is a lot of
(05:11):
the reason if that dictionary Urban Dictionary definition wasn't clear
that we dismiss things fangirls like is because we assume
it's very superficial. Um, and I would counter, you can
appreciate some good looks and other things. You know, you
love someone who just you know, a somber and brooding
I do specifically, like I was saying that for myself,
(05:35):
but that is definitely the character of Dean Winchester. Yeah. Anyway,
this's got turned into a whole fangirl thing right now. Um,
there is another Urban Dictionary definition I want to include,
which is the reaction of fangirl has to any mention
or citing of the object of her affection. These reactions
include shortness of breath, fainting, high pitched noises, shaking, fears,
head shaking as if in the midst of a seizure,
(05:57):
wet panties, endless blog post, et cetera. Well, this is
actually indicative of something we want to dig into into
this episode, the condescending attitude we have towards fangirls and
the things that they love. The stereotypical rendering of a
fangirl involves a teenage girl, high pitched screaming, and obsessive behavior. Right.
The word fan girl was first used as a noun
with its current meaning in nineteen thirty four. It was
(06:20):
first used as a verb and two thousand five teeny
boppers was coined in the nineteen sixties with the definition
of quote an early adolescent girl, but with a connotation
of animalistic tendencies similar to the modern fangirl definition UM
and side note, One thing I personally love about fangirls
(06:41):
is the language UM they've created to communicate. I could
devote an entire episode to the acronyms eye trafficked on
in on fan ficsion dot net. UM. It's creative and
so specific to things we all know, like ust unresolved
sexual tension. UM. Also, I discovered standom Sebastian stands fandom,
(07:05):
which explains some questions I've gotten when addressed as the
Winter Soldiers. You just look good as the Winter Soldier anyway, Obviously,
that's all I wanted out that you're fishing off well.
Fanboy is the male version of fan girl, not surprising,
and if you're curious. The Dictionary definition of a fan
is a person who was a strong interest in or
(07:26):
admiration for a particular person or a thing. The thing
that then separates the fan from the fan girl is
the girl and the view that fan girls are extreme,
that they're out there rapidly devouring all the interviews, collecting
rare photos, writing blog post and that their phantom consumes
their identity. Yeah, and rabbid is a word that comes
(07:46):
up a lot when you're talking about fan girls. If
you go online and find um any x y Z
signs your fan girl, most of them are not complimentary. Um,
some of them are, but most of them are not.
So we have a lot to to dig into here.
But first we have a quick break for from our
(08:06):
sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So if you
look at our history, throughout our history, there have been
infamous examples of fan girls. Perhaps the most well known
(08:30):
is Beatlemania. More modernly, we have things like Justin Bieber
the Believers um bts one direction, which, like we mentioned
in our fan fiction episodes, because there was a part
one and two um and that those are great primers
for this one one direction. Fan fiction makes up most
of the fan fiction on the app what pad really Yep, huh,
(08:55):
I will say fandoms they're powerful. Oh yeah, just as
we're learning, like, there's a whole controversy with Taylor Swift
and it and she's reached out to her fan group
and it's giant and is getting a lot of traction. Yeah.
So from a nineteen six New Yorker article, most of
his fans are playing lonely girls from lower middle class homes.
(09:17):
They are dazzled by the life Sinatural leads and wish
they could share it. In it, they insist that they
love him, but they do not use the verb in
its ordinary sense. As they apply it to him. It
is synonymous with worship or idealize. Yeah, so that was
a whole This was sort of before Sinatra got big,
I believe, but that was written and it was like,
look at these deities, right, so right, And I think
(09:39):
that was part of the reason he wasn't taken seriously
because they just assumed as an actor. He wasn't taken
seriously as an actor because he was like, Oh, you're
just performing for the ladies, right, And we're going to
talk about that more in depth later. Fan girls actually
get a lot of credit though for cementing the careers
of what are now with distance and mail, legitimizing critically
(09:59):
a to musicians or I guess they don't get the credit,
but they should um. Their dedication and willingness to spend
money and spread the word was the basis for artists
to continue making music. Or you can even think of
actors like James Dean, Leonardo DiCaprio, which was the reason
I still haven't seen Titan because because I was so
(10:19):
afraid of being called like a fan girl. Um, and
we'll talk about that. Also a bit or Michael J.
Fox who actually allegedly changed his middle initial from A
so that magazines would quit calling him a Fox. Interesting,
you know it's also fandoms. This is not necessarily fan
(10:40):
girls have brought back canceled shows. Yeah, so they have done.
These groups are powerful once again. Ye oh yeah. Um.
And something else we did want to touch on here
we mentioned in our fan fiction episodes as well as
a book by Rainbow Rawl fan Girl. This story falls Calf,
who was a fan girl of Simon Snow, which is
a Harry Potter analog. She spends a lot of her
(11:02):
time writing Simon snow fan fiction, a fan fiction that
is peppered throughout the book, and there's a sequel that
is the complete fan fiction and it's called carry On.
I have both of these. I'm working on the first
one right now, really enjoying it. Okay um. Recently, the
Belvoir and Brisbane Festival, co production and association with the
Australian Theater for Young People, put out a play called
(11:23):
Fan Girls. Eve Blake wrote the book, music and lyrics,
and Page Rotre directed it. Um. Eve Blake got the
idea for the play after meeting a thirteen year old
girl who told her, in absolute seriousness she was going
to marry Harry Styles, and Blake laughed, and this led
her to examine that reaction in delvinto every aspect of
(11:44):
fandom and fan girls. She later said, all my assumptions
about fan girls were built on society wide prejudices towards
young women when they express passion. And what I realized
is that the world looks very differently at a group
of young boys screaming their lungs at a football match,
then it does add a group of young fan girls
screaming their lungs out at a Beeper concert so obviously
(12:06):
she's not alone in her assumption. Fan Girls is always
a negative term. As a fandom has become more mainstream,
so too has a backlash against fan girls. When Peter
Kappadelli was announced as a new doctor, the internet was
full of delighted comments about how this would finally with
the fandom of the fan girls. The hashtag we hate
fan girls started trending. Yeah, and for those if you
(12:27):
don't know the doctor being doctor who and so in
that in that kind of mythos, the doctor regenerates and
it's a way for the story to continue, but also
for the production to casting new actor, right, and so
the actor previous to this one, Matt Smith was young
and I'm attractive and a lot of was now on
(12:48):
the crown or was on the y. Yeah, but anyway, Yeah,
there was kind of this backlash against what was seen
as so superficial fan girls who were just fans because
they thought he was attractive. And yeah, and that has
lasted so long. Oh yeah, show BBCIT usually doesn't keep
(13:11):
a show. Well, you know the interesting thing about that,
Like we talked about in our fan fiction episode this
nineteen sixty seven, I think it was one of the
original like when we talked talked about fan fiction. It
was one of the kind of first waves of UH
official I guess fan fan club, fan organizations, and magazines
(13:34):
and here it is to this day. Star Trek was
the other one still also still um from Pamela Voi sick,
the cultural lives of Doctor Who, Doctor Who's fandom, or papor.
The dismissal of fan girls is familiar to those of
us who study pop culture as a stereotypical denigration of
feminized mass culture and opposition to masculine quote art. It
(13:56):
assumes that female fans are an add on rivative and
lesser than male fandom, which is assumed to be motivated
by more serious interest the vagaries of time travel versus
the appeal of TV stars. Yeah, and something personally I
was thinking about this. I remember my brother and his
friends making fun of my love of Star Wars, which
(14:20):
they also loved, UH and making me feel like not
only was I not welcome UM and that this was
something I was going to have to keep to myself,
that something was wrong with me, that I should be
embarrassed about it. UM. And I it got to the
point that not I kind of hid my fandom, and
(14:42):
I went to my mom about it and asked her
if something was wrong with me? Um, And then yeah,
I avoided things I associated with fan girls, like boy
bands and Titanic. Right, I never saw it because all
my friends thought Leonardo DiCaprio was hot, and I was like,
I don't want to be any part of it. I
didn't le I was a heart fandom that just win
against the grain about who I was a fan of.
(15:04):
So did you like in Titanic? Oh? I didn't like anyone? Okay? Yeah? Yeah, No,
I was like, I don't likely I was scrawny. Okay,
you know, I don't like the scrawny ones. Um. So
several boy bands were formed specifically with targeting straight fan
girls in mind, which is actually something that happened with
both Backstreet Boys and in SINC. The manager Louke Pearlman
(15:24):
made a lot of money and then had a lot
of legal battles with that as well, because he created
these bands and knowing that he could monetize off of
fan girls, and damn it, he surely did. He did
until in Sinc. Fought fought him and got the rice back. Yeah,
which is smart. Yeah, And yeah, there is a lot
(15:44):
going on here and involves several things we've talked about
in past episodes. One of them is gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is
typically done by men who feel entitled to dictate the
right way to be a fan and who is allowed
to be in the club. These right ways to be
a fan are typically quoted as male fantish activities that
(16:05):
are typically coded as feminine, like cosplay or making costumes.
Fan fiction fan art are derioted and seen as quote
not true or acceptable fandom. And think of how comfortable
we feel making fun of and demeaning things associated with
fangirls like Twilight. I like Twilight. It was a very
easy read. I you know what, I've come around to
(16:27):
doing the research for this. Fan girls are onto something.
Maybe what they're onto is it a great piece of art,
But they're on there's a reason why it's popular. They're
not a lot of sexual frustration the USC No no,
no no. But we are going to talk about some
of that later. Um. Some creators recently have come out
(16:50):
and said, hey, stop policing my fandom, because fan girl
money is just as good as your bro money. Right again, though,
men have capitalized on fangirls, as we talked about Lou
parlman Um. They are created in knowing that they can
make a lot of money, including Barbie dolls or you know,
or Kindle whatever dolls in synct dolls. You've got InSync dolls,
(17:12):
don't you. I don't. That's the one thing I never Well,
I didn't buy anything much. I didn't even go to
the concerts either. Really they were never. I'm sure they were.
I remember I had a friend who went to Backstreet
Boys concert elementary school or something, and she, I mean,
I feel so happy for just thinking about it, because
(17:33):
she was so exciting static, I'll see them. I definitely
watched everything on TV. Whenever they would come on, I
would record it or whatever. Anyway, So women also distanced
themselves from fan girls and maybe to avoid being made
fun of as you were talking about, or to be
deemed legitimate, maybe because of the whole girl which implies immaturity,
(17:53):
which is very demeaning and manipulative. Yeah uh. And you
can also see our Toxic Fandom episode for more on
gate keeping and how the history of being a nerd
and the hierarchies and expertise that came with it led
to this misogynistic gate keeping. In that episode, we also
went into the fake geek girl, which is different but
related to fan girls. UM. Fake geek girl is something
(18:15):
is someone who is just a faker and knows nothing
about any given fandom that she is pretending to like.
Um in the mind of dude geeks. Anyway, she she
really isn't fake. Eat Girl's a thing. And something else
that's happening is the dismissal and demonizing of things women
and girls like, and specifically things young women like. It
goes beyond the message of you don't belong, you're not
(18:37):
doing it right, but to outright mocking and disgust and
their Internet spaces fangirls have carved out and created for
themselves that are havens for them to express themselves, but
by large these spaces are far and few between. Wrapped
Up in this is the weaponized word hysteria, which is
come on, y'all, frequently leveled at fangirls, along with others
like emotional which apparently is a weak thing, um, and
(18:59):
things we don't see when it comes to fan boys. Yeah,
and we've talked before about bronies on the show and
how when a man, when men enter a fandom, that
has classically been derided as feminine. UM, which is terrible,
but it's just seemed as this like silly thing women like, Um,
that fandom is legitimized. Something similar happened with the Beatles. Um.
(19:24):
When it was women who were the fans, they were
viewed as hysterical and the Beatles themselves not worth the time.
Then dudes were like, wait, this is good stuff. And
then the fandom is legitimized if they're making great music
that we still listen to to this day. Um. And
of course sports fandom, which has similar levels of fan
(19:45):
expression but as coded as masculine and therefore okay, well yeah,
that means you can wear the jerseys now them fantasy
football and say things like I'm not gay but yeah,
which is which is yeah? And if sports are your thing,
totally cool, love it general. But we shouldn't be judging
(20:08):
other fandoms because they're feminine on different standards, and you
know they did. That's the gate keeping too, that their
expectations as of women are not should not like sports
as much as they do. Yes, And we had several
listeners right in about that when we did our actually
our fan fiction episode about how it was just assumed
they were there because their husband's significant other whoever dragged
(20:34):
them there, or they were attracted to one of them, right,
And I know the whole social media stuff. People are
making fun of the girls who are doing selfies, saying
that's the onies and they're they're there is to take
selfish and it's like, what if they're just enjoying their time?
If fun, let them beat them, Let them beat them.
(20:55):
And we have some some more some more stuff about
fan girls for you, but first we have one more
quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back,
(21:17):
Thank you, sponsor. Pop Culture experts have examined fan girldom
for just about as long as it has existed and
why our culture has such anxiety around it. And one
thing experts believe is a part of this is um
how girls go through adolescence and are feeling sexual desires
(21:39):
expressing that via celebrity or fictional character, that that's something
that is safe right now in our society. Girls grew
up with the message that their existence in life is
wrapped in finding a husband. The hotter and richer, the better.
Luckily this is changing. Um celebrities check those boxes and
(21:59):
despite our the leaves that will one day meet the
object of our affection we haven't, which gives us artistic
license to imagine how great our lives will be without
the reality of what it would really be like. And
the lyrics like you're saying earlier they tell. These lyrics
are telling young women and girls, I'm gonna love you
(22:19):
forever no matter what you were perfect, you're beautiful, you
don't need to change a damn thing, and who would
yes to be seen all of a sudden um, and
we've said it before, we'll say it again. We are
terrified a female sexuality, particularly young women's sexuality. A lot
of geeky white dudes criticize fan girls for being only
(22:41):
interested in hot lead actors, and this is not true.
Fandom when look at at the Phantom of One Direction,
is generally assumed that all their fans are fan girls,
So therefore, liking One Direction automatically means you are only
there for their looks, You aren't very intelligent, and everything
you like a suspect that your thoughts and opinions are
valid and that not like in One Direction makes the
(23:02):
parson better. Ah. Yeah, this is gross and sexist. The
fact that women and especially young woman likes something does
not give people the right to put all these assumptions
on them, and even on news coverage reflects our derision.
When One Direction broke up, a lot of news coverage
outright really killed the fans and their distress. But one
of their favorite fans broke up. That really sucks it.
(23:24):
Does I hate it when the show gets canceled? Yeah,
it makes me really sad. Yeah. Harry Styles has been
asked whether he believes that One Direction is largely female
fan base has held him back from being seen as
a serious musician kind of like what you mentioned earlier.
Um His response, who's to say that young girls who
(23:44):
like pop music short for popular right have worse musical
taste than a thirty year old hipster guy. That's not
up to you to say. Music is something that's always changing,
there's no goal post. Young girls like the Beatles. You're
gonna tell me they're not serious. How can you say
eight young girls don't get it? There are future our
future doctors, lawyers, mother's presidents. They kind of keep the
(24:06):
world going. Teenage girl fans. They don't lie. If they
like you, they're there. They don't act too cool. They
like you and they tell you which is sick meaning
in a good way. Yeah. Um. And from a Rolling
Stone article about Harry Styles, Uh, there was this quote
he knows he serves at the pleasure of a girl
(24:27):
audience that absolutely cannot be bought, scammed, condescended to, or
taken for granted. It's been tried. If you're a girl
pop fan, you are the only power player in the
music business. Everybody else is scared stiff of you. It's true.
I've also read arguments that fan girl is a de
sexualized form of groupie. That makes sense, yeah, because we're
(24:48):
so afraid of women's sexual agency. In this dichotomy, women
are either superficial, unintelligent fans in the derogatory understanding what
a fan girl is, or a woman who is only
in a fandom to ultimately have sex. Both dismissed that
women might actually like the music or whatever it is
that they're fanning over, like we have to sexualize them
(25:10):
in order to validate why they might like something, and
all this language and derision around fan girls sort of
creates a cage for women were the only acceptable way
to express their motions around something they love is very
measured and we can also see this judgment around how
young women speak. Yeah, because if you think about the
all of the articles around up talk or vocal fry,
(25:33):
um yeah yeah, yeah, A part of it two feels
like an acceptable way to express sexist thoughts pointing at
something we so far have allowed and supported, making fun
of and taking pleasure, and young women crash against the
patriarchy and fail. It kind of weirs me out the
more I think about how comfortable we are, which is
being like, look, how stupid and silly these young girls
(25:55):
are because they like this thing so unnecessary? Why I
take the joy from someone? Yeah? Come on, Um, Adolescence
is a messy time for I would say all of us,
with the most of us, a time when we're trying
to figure out who we are, all these pieces of
our identity, just trying to stay alive. Fandom is a
(26:15):
way of finding a tribe, and pieces of fandom are
ways to find parts of yourself to figure out what
you want, which can change with age. Um, it's a
tool to learn about yourself. I said the fan fiction episode,
I learned all about sex right from band fiction and
what I liked and what I did it. Um one
Steady conducted on young adult fan culture concluded idolization of
(26:37):
pop stars has unique characteristics for adolescence. It provides a
basis for self expression, the construction of self identity, and
the achievement of independence. Um and yeah, this is also
a time when, um, you are going through your budding
sexuality and sexual desires and you're feeling these things. I mean,
(27:00):
it just kind of makes sense, right Lance Bass figured
out he was gay or actually came out after instinct,
but was told not to come out because that would
ruin the fan fandom. Oh, I pretending to like girls,
which happens a lot. But yeah, I think it's definitely
a time that people start figuring out people girls, anyone
who is a fan, start figuring out your sexuality. You
(27:22):
were talking about previously about X files, ahalyzing, you're very
trying to do both of them, and that says a
lot for sure. Yeah, And I was also thinking about
how since the message we get, or at least I
can say personally that I got, was that you need
to get married and it's gonna be the greatest, best
(27:42):
thing of your whole life, then you're going to fantasize
about finding that right person. We've been conditioned to believe
true love is the ultimate thing, right, And so here's
this for me. It was Ryan Gosling and he was
the and I told my mom I would marry and
bless her heart. She did not laugh at me. Uh
(28:05):
I told people that would be going to marry anyone
in the specifics. I don't think I did. M hmmm,
I really yeah, I felt it. And um, I do
want to say, of course, there are unhealthy expressions of
fandom in all aspects of fandom, including fan girls and
fan girl communities. Fan girls can and definitely do engage
(28:29):
in their own form of gate keeping, like flaming, which
is the way to shut up voices they don't like,
especially devastating when an entire fan club turns on you.
I had an experience, a very tiny experience with Ariana
Grandes fan club and uh no, thank you. It was terrible.
I apologize. I'm sorry. Um, I'm a little afraid of
the bay Hives as well as the Swifties, but like,
(28:51):
I enjoyed both these artists. So I have nothing to say.
But yeah, they're fear Yeah. Well, like you've been saying,
they're powerful. Powerful. Um. One thing that does differentiate fan girls, though,
is the stream obsessive qualities of it or um troubling beliefs.
A lot of these things can be phases, right, Like
adolescents is a phase. That's not to diminish fan girls
(29:14):
or what they like at all, or to say that
everything that fangirls like is a phase, but there are
parts of it that can be and it's like totally
natural and health you, right. And that being said, fan
labor is often replaced with derogatory whereas like stalking or
creepy when it comes to fangirls. But fan labor is
just a part of fandom finding out all the details,
(29:34):
just dissecting them, memorizing them, and adding this intelligence to
the fan community. That's the same level of knowledge among
male fans or sports fans, which is not looked upon
as negative as soon as expertise. Rock music critic Jessica
Hopper tweeted a while back, replace the world fan girl
with expert and see what happens. And psychologists do caution
about celebrity and unrealistic body image standards that girls may
(29:57):
internalize and manifest as an eating disorder. We've talked about
that previously, and that is definitely something that we have
to be careful of. Yeah, and that that's something that
when I was researching this, UM, this article came up
of pretty much reassuring parents, Yes, you're fan girl, your daughter,
(30:17):
she might it's fine, she might be obsessed, but here
are the things you should actually be looking for, right,
And a lot of the things were, yeah, body image standards,
if the celebrity in question drinks a lot or smokes, um,
or if there's an underlying issue like depression, um that
(30:39):
has sort of become wrapped up in the fandom or
whatever it is. But it's not the fandom or expressing
the love for that. It's a different thing, right right right,
um And yeah, I just last night was amazed at UM.
Green Day was my I think most best example of
(31:00):
all of this, And somebody asked me a random tribute
question and damn it ified. I still don't have it
rally around you do? You learn all of these things,
do and you contribute and collaborate UMTV shows like I'll
go back and look at there i am dB stuff
and just saying like who's with what and where they're from? Yeah,
(31:21):
this is what that was. Oh and they were born
in this time. That's cute. Yeah yeah. Um So in conclusion,
I suppose the thing is there are different levels of fandom, um,
and you get to decide what kind of fan that
you are. No one else can slap a label on
you as much as they're going to try. Fandom is
a diverse space, and by policing it, we're not allowing
(31:43):
it to grow and be as robust and creative and
welcoming as it can and should be. Fangirls are not
a monelist. We come in a variety of ages. Some
of us are there for the hot celebrity, others or not.
It might be a comp of both, or it might
differ depending on the fandom, right, I will say the
whole different ages. It's harder to be a fan girl
(32:04):
when all of the new stuff has really young kids
in there, and I'm like, oh dirty, Yeah that's something else.
That's a different topic. Um. So yeah, I really left
this feeling I warmth in my heart for the fan girl.
Um and I still am in many ways a fan girl.
But just again, don't I respect the fan girl because
(32:32):
they're onto something. They are experts, and they're making you money,
yes or someone not me, I don't know, but I mean,
any fan girls of this show. I want to write
in somebody who wrote a fan fiction with me in
it once and it was the best day of my
entire life. I want. I don't actually because I'm scared
of what what that would be. You can never know
how I will go. Um. If you want to hear
(32:53):
me fan girling about one of my favorite movies, you
can go check out the episode I did on the
podcast movie crush Um with her friend Chuck Um. And
I did it on Spider Man Into the Spider Verse,
which Samantha knows my favorite. The love that you have
for that movie, I left it might just my face
hurt from smiling so much. I love that movie. Um.
(33:18):
And also I want to fan girls. Ya. Fangirl Annie
was in an amazing movie that we've already talked about
previously and she was fantastic in it and our friend Paul,
who directed and wrote it with her, did an amazing job.
Annie in the City, which is out now on Amazon. Yeah.
(33:38):
So if you have Amazon Prime you can watch it
for free. Yes. So, uh, as a fan girl of
Annie in the City, you definitely should check it out. Yes,
thank you. Yeah. Yeah, And if you're looking for further reading.
Other than fan Girls, which we already mentioned, you can
check out fan Girls Scenes from Modern Music Culture by
(34:00):
Ewan's um. If you're a fan girl of something and
want to share some fan art, fan fiction, whatever, please
do makes me a puppet one day one day and
we had a puppet. Um. And while we're talking about
fan girls, want to shout out to a couple of
podcasts on the topic fan girls, and one is fan
Girl Happy Hour hosted by Renee and Anna, who talked
(34:20):
about all the different things, including the movie The Craft,
which I think we still need to do um and
throwing things like robot sex. So their episodes are really fun.
And then there is the Nerdy Watch with Reese your
last name doing some great things. But the best of
what I would be listening to on her show is
all of the Saved by the Bell episodes, which he
(34:41):
does and she does a great job and I enjoyed
it very much. So nicely done, Race, nicely done um.
And also I'm gonna shout out to my girl, Jamie Summers.
That's her name on the Twitter's her candle. As at
dark Toka, she was able to find some amazing muppet
baby toys that we mentioned about the puppet episodes and
even mentioned where I forgot about that they appear in
(35:03):
the Muppets Take Manhattan. How could you forget? I know,
I know, so I really what kind of fair girls?
It's been a long time, Like, the fact that it's
back was surprising, So I love that it's back. I
am starting to get that you might be a secret
fan girl. I just gotta own it, Smantha. Look, I
(35:25):
didn't watch many cartoons, but for some reason, that was
the one. And it was cartoons at that point, it
wasn't Muppets, uh, and that was one of the ones
that I just had loved. Well, it looks like I
should check it out. Maybe I will. Maybe I need
a new thing. Um. But in the meantime, if you
would like to email us, we would love to hear
(35:46):
from you. Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at
iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom stuf podcast or on Instagram at stuff I've
Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer
Andrew Howard, Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Stam never told you. He's a prodection of I Heart Radios.
How Steff works for more podcasts from iHeartRadio of his
(36:07):
Dieartradio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steth.
I've never told to reproduction of I Heart Radio's How
Stuff Works. Today we're talking about band girls and girls. Yes,
actually really excited to talk about this. Forever ago we
(00:26):
did a video on fan girls and I have been
meaning to return to it ever since. And the timing
feels right because as you record this, Disney plus let's
just come out, and Frozen two is coming out next week.
My phone has already been bombarded with advice articles on
how to avoid getting earwormed with the new song, even
(00:49):
though same phone is the one that keeps playing that
song in Google Shuffle. This is why I don't listen
to Google Shuffle. It's giving me mixed messages, is it?
I think it has one message, which is pretty much
listening and go watch obsessed Bye bye bye. Right um,
and it's got me thinking all of this, how we
(01:11):
talk about fan girls and how we talk about the
things that they like. Uh yeah, and I also I
recently went to Disney and seeing all the little girls
in costumes. I have a particular soft spot for Ray
from Star Wars. Seeing girls in those costumes. Another Cube costume, Yeah,
that's good. Were you a fan girl of anything, Samantha, Um,
(01:31):
I actually fan girls over a few young boys in
my time. Jonathan Brandon's was my heart Throb r I
p UM when I was younger. But then I would
also get really obsessed with like Buffy and Saved by
the Bell, which I would watch religiously. Um. I could
probably still tell you all about all the episodes for
each one of those things. Um. And of course I
was really obsessed with like different music groups and new
(01:54):
kids on the block, with people about who was better
was a Joey girl okay? Um? In Sync. I'll actually
fought with my sister about who's better in sinker Backstreet
Boys and um. And I also had a really big yeah,
I love for boys the men because I just wanted
them to croon to me about how they loved me.
(02:14):
Oh that's that's great that you said that, because they're
going to be returning to that kind of idea very
end of the episode. So something to look forward to.
But what about you know, I know you've got a lot,
but give me a rundown. I was fan girling all
in all kinds of things. I was huge into Mary
Kay Nashley Young Herchilees Charmed Supernatural. Green Day is probably
(02:38):
my greatest example of if you were going to do
a classic, this is a fangirl. I would check all
the boxes for Great Day and that was probably the
big one. Harry Potter and Star Wars um and I
get star Gate one. Yeah. I also had and have
some fan girl tendencies around about a hundred other things
(03:00):
these days. But I suppose we should step back a
bit and define fangirl from dictionary dot com. Fangirl is
a female fan, especially one who is obsessive about comics, movies, music,
or science fiction. The Miriam Webster definition is a bit different.
A girl or woman who is an extremely, are overly
(03:22):
enthusiastic fan of someone or something. An extension of fan
girls is fan girling, which is basically the verb form um.
And then we have this from Urban Dictionary, the art
of obsessing over fandoms, the characters in the fandoms, the
actors who play the character. If the fandom is a
film or show, et cetera, just saying something to do
(03:43):
with a fan girl fandom will usually lead them to
frantically crashing into the room you're in, making high pitched
sounds that to you might sound meaningless, but to other
fan girls will make total science. Example. Wait, wait, do
you want to do this as a back and forth?
You want to? Okay, I'll be the I'll be the person. Okay.
So this is the example that Urban Dictionary gave, so
me Dean Winchester. Oh god, oh my god, Acholes said
(04:08):
the name baby up fangirling again. Uh and then she
passes up clap by the way. I have to I
have to ask, was it was the actual example supernatural? Yes,
(04:28):
that's hilarious because it is does fit right because I
feel like I've gotten into supernatural because of you was
a girl. Yeah, yeah, I bet you were. I bet
you were. So the sexiest Man Alive was announced from
People magazine and it's John Legend, who can also sing
to me all day long. Um. And there were several
(04:50):
several people who were really upset and because they wanted
they thought other people were better, because the people always
have opinions, and one of the names that kept coming
up us Dean Winchester or Jinson Knackles. So he's been
thrown out as being should have been the speciest man alive.
He's a finelooking spesstment. And you know, the thing we're
going to talk about this too is a lot of
(05:11):
the reason if that dictionary Urban Dictionary definition wasn't clear
that we dismiss things fangirls like is because we assume
it's very superficial. Um, and I would counter, you can
appreciate some good looks and other things. You know, you
love someone who just you know, a somber and brooding
I do specifically, like I was saying that for myself,
(05:35):
but that is definitely the character of Dean Winchester. Yeah. Anyway,
this's got turned into a whole fangirl thing right now. Um,
there is another Urban Dictionary definition I want to include,
which is the reaction of fangirl has to any mention
or citing of the object of her affection. These reactions
include shortness of breath, fainting, high pitched noises, shaking, fears,
head shaking as if in the midst of a seizure,
(05:57):
wet panties, endless blog post, et cetera. Well, this is
actually indicative of something we want to dig into into
this episode, the condescending attitude we have towards fangirls and
the things that they love. The stereotypical rendering of a
fangirl involves a teenage girl, high pitched screaming, and obsessive behavior. Right.
The word fan girl was first used as a noun
with its current meaning in nineteen thirty four. It was
(06:20):
first used as a verb and two thousand five teeny
boppers was coined in the nineteen sixties with the definition
of quote an early adolescent girl, but with a connotation
of animalistic tendencies similar to the modern fangirl definition UM
and side note, One thing I personally love about fangirls
(06:41):
is the language UM they've created to communicate. I could
devote an entire episode to the acronyms eye trafficked on
in on fan ficsion dot net. UM. It's creative and
so specific to things we all know, like ust unresolved
sexual tension. UM. Also, I discovered standom Sebastian stands fandom,
(07:05):
which explains some questions I've gotten when addressed as the
Winter Soldiers. You just look good as the Winter Soldier anyway, Obviously,
that's all I wanted out that you're fishing off well.
Fanboy is the male version of fan girl, not surprising,
and if you're curious. The Dictionary definition of a fan
is a person who was a strong interest in or
(07:26):
admiration for a particular person or a thing. The thing
that then separates the fan from the fan girl is
the girl and the view that fan girls are extreme,
that they're out there rapidly devouring all the interviews, collecting
rare photos, writing blog post and that their phantom consumes
their identity. Yeah, and rabbid is a word that comes
(07:46):
up a lot when you're talking about fan girls. If
you go online and find um any x y Z
signs your fan girl, most of them are not complimentary. Um,
some of them are, but most of them are not.
So we have a lot to to dig into here.
But first we have a quick break for from our
(08:06):
sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So if you
look at our history, throughout our history, there have been
infamous examples of fan girls. Perhaps the most well known
(08:30):
is Beatlemania. More modernly, we have things like Justin Bieber
the Believers um bts one direction, which, like we mentioned
in our fan fiction episodes, because there was a part
one and two um and that those are great primers
for this one one direction. Fan fiction makes up most
of the fan fiction on the app what pad really Yep, huh,
(08:55):
I will say fandoms they're powerful. Oh yeah, just as
we're learning, like, there's a whole controversy with Taylor Swift
and it and she's reached out to her fan group
and it's giant and is getting a lot of traction. Yeah.
So from a nineteen six New Yorker article, most of
his fans are playing lonely girls from lower middle class homes.
(09:17):
They are dazzled by the life Sinatural leads and wish
they could share it. In it, they insist that they
love him, but they do not use the verb in
its ordinary sense. As they apply it to him. It
is synonymous with worship or idealize. Yeah, so that was
a whole This was sort of before Sinatra got big,
I believe, but that was written and it was like,
look at these deities, right, so right, And I think
(09:39):
that was part of the reason he wasn't taken seriously
because they just assumed as an actor. He wasn't taken
seriously as an actor because he was like, Oh, you're
just performing for the ladies, right, And we're going to
talk about that more in depth later. Fan girls actually
get a lot of credit though for cementing the careers
of what are now with distance and mail, legitimizing critically
(09:59):
a to musicians or I guess they don't get the credit,
but they should um. Their dedication and willingness to spend
money and spread the word was the basis for artists
to continue making music. Or you can even think of
actors like James Dean, Leonardo DiCaprio, which was the reason
I still haven't seen Titan because because I was so
(10:19):
afraid of being called like a fan girl. Um, and
we'll talk about that. Also a bit or Michael J.
Fox who actually allegedly changed his middle initial from A
so that magazines would quit calling him a Fox. Interesting,
you know it's also fandoms. This is not necessarily fan
(10:40):
girls have brought back canceled shows. Yeah, so they have done.
These groups are powerful once again. Ye oh yeah. Um.
And something else we did want to touch on here
we mentioned in our fan fiction episodes as well as
a book by Rainbow Rawl fan Girl. This story falls Calf,
who was a fan girl of Simon Snow, which is
a Harry Potter analog. She spends a lot of her
(11:02):
time writing Simon snow fan fiction, a fan fiction that
is peppered throughout the book, and there's a sequel that
is the complete fan fiction and it's called carry On.
I have both of these. I'm working on the first
one right now, really enjoying it. Okay um. Recently, the
Belvoir and Brisbane Festival, co production and association with the
Australian Theater for Young People, put out a play called
(11:23):
Fan Girls. Eve Blake wrote the book, music and lyrics,
and Page Rotre directed it. Um. Eve Blake got the
idea for the play after meeting a thirteen year old
girl who told her, in absolute seriousness she was going
to marry Harry Styles, and Blake laughed, and this led
her to examine that reaction in delvinto every aspect of
(11:44):
fandom and fan girls. She later said, all my assumptions
about fan girls were built on society wide prejudices towards
young women when they express passion. And what I realized
is that the world looks very differently at a group
of young boys screaming their lungs at a football match,
then it does add a group of young fan girls
screaming their lungs out at a Beeper concert so obviously
(12:06):
she's not alone in her assumption. Fan Girls is always
a negative term. As a fandom has become more mainstream,
so too has a backlash against fan girls. When Peter
Kappadelli was announced as a new doctor, the internet was
full of delighted comments about how this would finally with
the fandom of the fan girls. The hashtag we hate
fan girls started trending. Yeah, and for those if you
(12:27):
don't know the doctor being doctor who and so in
that in that kind of mythos, the doctor regenerates and
it's a way for the story to continue, but also
for the production to casting new actor, right, and so
the actor previous to this one, Matt Smith was young
and I'm attractive and a lot of was now on
(12:48):
the crown or was on the y. Yeah, but anyway, Yeah,
there was kind of this backlash against what was seen
as so superficial fan girls who were just fans because
they thought he was attractive. And yeah, and that has
lasted so long. Oh yeah, show BBCIT usually doesn't keep
(13:11):
a show. Well, you know the interesting thing about that,
Like we talked about in our fan fiction episode this
nineteen sixty seven, I think it was one of the
original like when we talked talked about fan fiction. It
was one of the kind of first waves of UH
official I guess fan fan club, fan organizations, and magazines
(13:34):
and here it is to this day. Star Trek was
the other one still also still um from Pamela Voi sick,
the cultural lives of Doctor Who, Doctor Who's fandom, or papor.
The dismissal of fan girls is familiar to those of
us who study pop culture as a stereotypical denigration of
feminized mass culture and opposition to masculine quote art. It
(13:56):
assumes that female fans are an add on rivative and
lesser than male fandom, which is assumed to be motivated
by more serious interest the vagaries of time travel versus
the appeal of TV stars. Yeah, and something personally I
was thinking about this. I remember my brother and his
friends making fun of my love of Star Wars, which
(14:20):
they also loved, UH and making me feel like not
only was I not welcome UM and that this was
something I was going to have to keep to myself,
that something was wrong with me, that I should be
embarrassed about it. UM. And I it got to the
point that not I kind of hid my fandom, and
(14:42):
I went to my mom about it and asked her
if something was wrong with me? Um, And then yeah,
I avoided things I associated with fan girls, like boy
bands and Titanic. Right, I never saw it because all
my friends thought Leonardo DiCaprio was hot, and I was like,
I don't want to be any part of it. I
didn't le I was a heart fandom that just win
against the grain about who I was a fan of.
(15:04):
So did you like in Titanic? Oh? I didn't like anyone? Okay? Yeah? Yeah, No,
I was like, I don't likely I was scrawny. Okay,
you know, I don't like the scrawny ones. Um. So
several boy bands were formed specifically with targeting straight fan
girls in mind, which is actually something that happened with
both Backstreet Boys and in SINC. The manager Louke Pearlman
(15:24):
made a lot of money and then had a lot
of legal battles with that as well, because he created
these bands and knowing that he could monetize off of
fan girls, and damn it, he surely did. He did
until in Sinc. Fought fought him and got the rice back. Yeah,
which is smart. Yeah, And yeah, there is a lot
(15:44):
going on here and involves several things we've talked about
in past episodes. One of them is gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is
typically done by men who feel entitled to dictate the
right way to be a fan and who is allowed
to be in the club. These right ways to be
a fan are typically quoted as male fantish activities that
(16:05):
are typically coded as feminine, like cosplay or making costumes.
Fan fiction fan art are derioted and seen as quote
not true or acceptable fandom. And think of how comfortable
we feel making fun of and demeaning things associated with
fangirls like Twilight. I like Twilight. It was a very
easy read. I you know what, I've come around to
(16:27):
doing the research for this. Fan girls are onto something.
Maybe what they're onto is it a great piece of art,
But they're on there's a reason why it's popular. They're
not a lot of sexual frustration the USC No no,
no no. But we are going to talk about some
of that later. Um. Some creators recently have come out
(16:50):
and said, hey, stop policing my fandom, because fan girl
money is just as good as your bro money. Right again, though,
men have capitalized on fangirls, as we talked about Lou
parlman Um. They are created in knowing that they can
make a lot of money, including Barbie dolls or you know,
or Kindle whatever dolls in synct dolls. You've got InSync dolls,
(17:12):
don't you. I don't. That's the one thing I never Well,
I didn't buy anything much. I didn't even go to
the concerts either. Really they were never. I'm sure they were.
I remember I had a friend who went to Backstreet
Boys concert elementary school or something, and she, I mean,
I feel so happy for just thinking about it, because
(17:33):
she was so exciting static, I'll see them. I definitely
watched everything on TV. Whenever they would come on, I
would record it or whatever. Anyway, So women also distanced
themselves from fan girls and maybe to avoid being made
fun of as you were talking about, or to be
deemed legitimate, maybe because of the whole girl which implies immaturity,
(17:53):
which is very demeaning and manipulative. Yeah uh. And you
can also see our Toxic Fandom episode for more on
gate keeping and how the history of being a nerd
and the hierarchies and expertise that came with it led
to this misogynistic gate keeping. In that episode, we also
went into the fake geek girl, which is different but
related to fan girls. UM. Fake geek girl is something
(18:15):
is someone who is just a faker and knows nothing
about any given fandom that she is pretending to like.
Um in the mind of dude geeks. Anyway, she she
really isn't fake. Eat Girl's a thing. And something else
that's happening is the dismissal and demonizing of things women
and girls like, and specifically things young women like. It
goes beyond the message of you don't belong, you're not
(18:37):
doing it right, but to outright mocking and disgust and
their Internet spaces fangirls have carved out and created for
themselves that are havens for them to express themselves, but
by large these spaces are far and few between. Wrapped
Up in this is the weaponized word hysteria, which is
come on, y'all, frequently leveled at fangirls, along with others
like emotional which apparently is a weak thing, um, and
(18:59):
things we don't see when it comes to fan boys. Yeah,
and we've talked before about bronies on the show and
how when a man, when men enter a fandom, that
has classically been derided as feminine. UM, which is terrible,
but it's just seemed as this like silly thing women like, Um,
that fandom is legitimized. Something similar happened with the Beatles. Um.
(19:24):
When it was women who were the fans, they were
viewed as hysterical and the Beatles themselves not worth the time.
Then dudes were like, wait, this is good stuff. And
then the fandom is legitimized if they're making great music
that we still listen to to this day. Um. And
of course sports fandom, which has similar levels of fan
(19:45):
expression but as coded as masculine and therefore okay, well yeah,
that means you can wear the jerseys now them fantasy
football and say things like I'm not gay but yeah,
which is which is yeah? And if sports are your thing,
totally cool, love it general. But we shouldn't be judging
(20:08):
other fandoms because they're feminine on different standards, and you
know they did. That's the gate keeping too, that their
expectations as of women are not should not like sports
as much as they do. Yes, And we had several
listeners right in about that when we did our actually
our fan fiction episode about how it was just assumed
they were there because their husband's significant other whoever dragged
(20:34):
them there, or they were attracted to one of them, right,
And I know the whole social media stuff. People are
making fun of the girls who are doing selfies, saying
that's the onies and they're they're there is to take
selfish and it's like, what if they're just enjoying their time?
If fun, let them beat them, Let them beat them.
(20:55):
And we have some some more some more stuff about
fan girls for you, but first we have one more
quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back,
(21:17):
Thank you, sponsor. Pop Culture experts have examined fan girldom
for just about as long as it has existed and
why our culture has such anxiety around it. And one
thing experts believe is a part of this is um
how girls go through adolescence and are feeling sexual desires
(21:39):
expressing that via celebrity or fictional character, that that's something
that is safe right now in our society. Girls grew
up with the message that their existence in life is
wrapped in finding a husband. The hotter and richer, the better.
Luckily this is changing. Um celebrities check those boxes and
(21:59):
despite our the leaves that will one day meet the
object of our affection we haven't, which gives us artistic
license to imagine how great our lives will be without
the reality of what it would really be like. And
the lyrics like you're saying earlier they tell. These lyrics
are telling young women and girls, I'm gonna love you
(22:19):
forever no matter what you were perfect, you're beautiful, you
don't need to change a damn thing, and who would
yes to be seen all of a sudden um, and
we've said it before, we'll say it again. We are
terrified a female sexuality, particularly young women's sexuality. A lot
of geeky white dudes criticize fan girls for being only
(22:41):
interested in hot lead actors, and this is not true.
Fandom when look at at the Phantom of One Direction,
is generally assumed that all their fans are fan girls,
So therefore, liking One Direction automatically means you are only
there for their looks, You aren't very intelligent, and everything
you like a suspect that your thoughts and opinions are
valid and that not like in One Direction makes the
(23:02):
parson better. Ah. Yeah, this is gross and sexist. The
fact that women and especially young woman likes something does
not give people the right to put all these assumptions
on them, and even on news coverage reflects our derision.
When One Direction broke up, a lot of news coverage
outright really killed the fans and their distress. But one
of their favorite fans broke up. That really sucks it.
(23:24):
Does I hate it when the show gets canceled? Yeah,
it makes me really sad. Yeah. Harry Styles has been
asked whether he believes that One Direction is largely female
fan base has held him back from being seen as
a serious musician kind of like what you mentioned earlier.
Um His response, who's to say that young girls who
(23:44):
like pop music short for popular right have worse musical
taste than a thirty year old hipster guy. That's not
up to you to say. Music is something that's always changing,
there's no goal post. Young girls like the Beatles. You're
gonna tell me they're not serious. How can you say
eight young girls don't get it? There are future our
future doctors, lawyers, mother's presidents. They kind of keep the
(24:06):
world going. Teenage girl fans. They don't lie. If they
like you, they're there. They don't act too cool. They
like you and they tell you which is sick meaning
in a good way. Yeah. Um. And from a Rolling
Stone article about Harry Styles, Uh, there was this quote
he knows he serves at the pleasure of a girl
(24:27):
audience that absolutely cannot be bought, scammed, condescended to, or
taken for granted. It's been tried. If you're a girl
pop fan, you are the only power player in the
music business. Everybody else is scared stiff of you. It's true.
I've also read arguments that fan girl is a de
sexualized form of groupie. That makes sense, yeah, because we're
(24:48):
so afraid of women's sexual agency. In this dichotomy, women
are either superficial, unintelligent fans in the derogatory understanding what
a fan girl is, or a woman who is only
in a fandom to ultimately have sex. Both dismissed that
women might actually like the music or whatever it is
that they're fanning over, like we have to sexualize them
(25:10):
in order to validate why they might like something, and
all this language and derision around fan girls sort of
creates a cage for women were the only acceptable way
to express their motions around something they love is very
measured and we can also see this judgment around how
young women speak. Yeah, because if you think about the
all of the articles around up talk or vocal fry,
(25:33):
um yeah yeah, yeah, A part of it two feels
like an acceptable way to express sexist thoughts pointing at
something we so far have allowed and supported, making fun
of and taking pleasure, and young women crash against the
patriarchy and fail. It kind of weirs me out the
more I think about how comfortable we are, which is
being like, look, how stupid and silly these young girls
(25:55):
are because they like this thing so unnecessary? Why I
take the joy from someone? Yeah? Come on, Um, Adolescence
is a messy time for I would say all of us,
with the most of us, a time when we're trying
to figure out who we are, all these pieces of
our identity, just trying to stay alive. Fandom is a
(26:15):
way of finding a tribe, and pieces of fandom are
ways to find parts of yourself to figure out what
you want, which can change with age. Um, it's a
tool to learn about yourself. I said the fan fiction episode,
I learned all about sex right from band fiction and
what I liked and what I did it. Um one
Steady conducted on young adult fan culture concluded idolization of
(26:37):
pop stars has unique characteristics for adolescence. It provides a
basis for self expression, the construction of self identity, and
the achievement of independence. Um and yeah, this is also
a time when, um, you are going through your budding
sexuality and sexual desires and you're feeling these things. I mean,
(27:00):
it just kind of makes sense, right Lance Bass figured
out he was gay or actually came out after instinct,
but was told not to come out because that would
ruin the fan fandom. Oh, I pretending to like girls,
which happens a lot. But yeah, I think it's definitely
a time that people start figuring out people girls, anyone
who is a fan, start figuring out your sexuality. You
(27:22):
were talking about previously about X files, ahalyzing, you're very
trying to do both of them, and that says a
lot for sure. Yeah, And I was also thinking about
how since the message we get, or at least I
can say personally that I got, was that you need
to get married and it's gonna be the greatest, best
(27:42):
thing of your whole life, then you're going to fantasize
about finding that right person. We've been conditioned to believe
true love is the ultimate thing, right, And so here's
this for me. It was Ryan Gosling and he was
the and I told my mom I would marry and
bless her heart. She did not laugh at me. Uh
(28:05):
I told people that would be going to marry anyone
in the specifics. I don't think I did. M hmmm,
I really yeah, I felt it. And um, I do
want to say, of course, there are unhealthy expressions of
fandom in all aspects of fandom, including fan girls and
fan girl communities. Fan girls can and definitely do engage
(28:29):
in their own form of gate keeping, like flaming, which
is the way to shut up voices they don't like,
especially devastating when an entire fan club turns on you.
I had an experience, a very tiny experience with Ariana
Grandes fan club and uh no, thank you. It was terrible.
I apologize. I'm sorry. Um, I'm a little afraid of
the bay Hives as well as the Swifties, but like,
(28:51):
I enjoyed both these artists. So I have nothing to say.
But yeah, they're fear Yeah. Well, like you've been saying,
they're powerful. Powerful. Um. One thing that does differentiate fan girls, though,
is the stream obsessive qualities of it or um troubling beliefs.
A lot of these things can be phases, right, Like
adolescents is a phase. That's not to diminish fan girls
(29:14):
or what they like at all, or to say that
everything that fangirls like is a phase, but there are
parts of it that can be and it's like totally
natural and health you, right. And that being said, fan
labor is often replaced with derogatory whereas like stalking or
creepy when it comes to fangirls. But fan labor is
just a part of fandom finding out all the details,
(29:34):
just dissecting them, memorizing them, and adding this intelligence to
the fan community. That's the same level of knowledge among
male fans or sports fans, which is not looked upon
as negative as soon as expertise. Rock music critic Jessica
Hopper tweeted a while back, replace the world fan girl
with expert and see what happens. And psychologists do caution
about celebrity and unrealistic body image standards that girls may
(29:57):
internalize and manifest as an eating disorder. We've talked about
that previously, and that is definitely something that we have
to be careful of. Yeah, and that that's something that
when I was researching this, UM, this article came up
of pretty much reassuring parents, Yes, you're fan girl, your daughter,
(30:17):
she might it's fine, she might be obsessed, but here
are the things you should actually be looking for, right,
And a lot of the things were, yeah, body image standards,
if the celebrity in question drinks a lot or smokes, um,
or if there's an underlying issue like depression, um that
(30:39):
has sort of become wrapped up in the fandom or
whatever it is. But it's not the fandom or expressing
the love for that. It's a different thing, right right right,
um And yeah, I just last night was amazed at UM.
Green Day was my I think most best example of
(31:00):
all of this, And somebody asked me a random tribute
question and damn it ified. I still don't have it
rally around you do? You learn all of these things,
do and you contribute and collaborate UMTV shows like I'll
go back and look at there i am dB stuff
and just saying like who's with what and where they're from? Yeah,
(31:21):
this is what that was. Oh and they were born
in this time. That's cute. Yeah yeah. Um So in conclusion,
I suppose the thing is there are different levels of fandom, um,
and you get to decide what kind of fan that
you are. No one else can slap a label on
you as much as they're going to try. Fandom is
a diverse space, and by policing it, we're not allowing
(31:43):
it to grow and be as robust and creative and
welcoming as it can and should be. Fangirls are not
a monelist. We come in a variety of ages. Some
of us are there for the hot celebrity, others or not.
It might be a comp of both, or it might
differ depending on the fandom, right, I will say the
whole different ages. It's harder to be a fan girl
(32:04):
when all of the new stuff has really young kids
in there, and I'm like, oh dirty, Yeah that's something else.
That's a different topic. Um. So yeah, I really left
this feeling I warmth in my heart for the fan girl.
Um and I still am in many ways a fan girl.
But just again, don't I respect the fan girl because
(32:32):
they're onto something. They are experts, and they're making you money,
yes or someone not me, I don't know, but I mean,
any fan girls of this show. I want to write
in somebody who wrote a fan fiction with me in
it once and it was the best day of my
entire life. I want. I don't actually because I'm scared
of what what that would be. You can never know
how I will go. Um. If you want to hear
(32:53):
me fan girling about one of my favorite movies, you
can go check out the episode I did on the
podcast movie crush Um with her friend Chuck Um. And
I did it on Spider Man Into the Spider Verse,
which Samantha knows my favorite. The love that you have
for that movie, I left it might just my face
hurt from smiling so much. I love that movie. Um.
(33:18):
And also I want to fan girls. Ya. Fangirl Annie
was in an amazing movie that we've already talked about
previously and she was fantastic in it and our friend Paul,
who directed and wrote it with her, did an amazing job.
Annie in the City, which is out now on Amazon. Yeah.
(33:38):
So if you have Amazon Prime you can watch it
for free. Yes. So, uh, as a fan girl of
Annie in the City, you definitely should check it out. Yes,
thank you. Yeah. Yeah, And if you're looking for further reading.
Other than fan Girls, which we already mentioned, you can
check out fan Girls Scenes from Modern Music Culture by
(34:00):
Ewan's um. If you're a fan girl of something and
want to share some fan art, fan fiction, whatever, please
do makes me a puppet one day one day and
we had a puppet. Um. And while we're talking about
fan girls, want to shout out to a couple of
podcasts on the topic fan girls, and one is fan
Girl Happy Hour hosted by Renee and Anna, who talked
(34:20):
about all the different things, including the movie The Craft,
which I think we still need to do um and
throwing things like robot sex. So their episodes are really fun.
And then there is the Nerdy Watch with Reese your
last name doing some great things. But the best of
what I would be listening to on her show is
all of the Saved by the Bell episodes, which he
(34:41):
does and she does a great job and I enjoyed
it very much. So nicely done, Race, nicely done um.
And also I'm gonna shout out to my girl, Jamie Summers.
That's her name on the Twitter's her candle. As at
dark Toka, she was able to find some amazing muppet
baby toys that we mentioned about the puppet episodes and
even mentioned where I forgot about that they appear in
(35:03):
the Muppets Take Manhattan. How could you forget? I know,
I know, so I really what kind of fair girls?
It's been a long time, Like, the fact that it's
back was surprising, So I love that it's back. I
am starting to get that you might be a secret
fan girl. I just gotta own it, Smantha. Look, I
(35:25):
didn't watch many cartoons, but for some reason, that was
the one. And it was cartoons at that point, it
wasn't Muppets, uh, and that was one of the ones
that I just had loved. Well, it looks like I
should check it out. Maybe I will. Maybe I need
a new thing. Um. But in the meantime, if you
would like to email us, we would love to hear
(35:46):
from you. Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at
iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom stuf podcast or on Instagram at stuff I've
Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer
Andrew Howard, Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Stam never told you. He's a prodection of I Heart Radios.
How Steff works for more podcasts from iHeartRadio of his
(36:07):
Dieartradio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
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