September 4, 2020 • 36 mins
Anney finally redeems herself in Samantha's eyes and watches the 1992 feminist classic A League of Their Own. There is definitely crying in podcasting.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Danny and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.
I've never told you objection. I heart radio. So here's
my question for you today. Samantha. Okay, what was the
(00:25):
last movie you watched? Oh that's that's not fair, because
I've rewatched things and I feel like I'm a loser.
I actually just watched The Conjuring too, because I realized
it was on HBO Max, and I was like, oh, yeah,
I love this movie. Well, not necessarily love this movie,
but I just love horror films in general. So it's
been a while since I've seen that one. Yeah, sounds
(00:47):
like I'm a big fan. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, the
Crooked Man. Yeah, that Crooked Man one is always freakish. Yes,
I'm trying to I'm actually trying to write a scary
children's rhyme right now. Um, and I was thinking about
that one. You know, the ones that are like not
meant to be scary, but when you really think about it,
(01:09):
they're pretty freaky. Yeah. Well, I mean anything involving witches
and such. You're like, oh my god, that's really bad. Yeah.
They're all trying to poison you and eat you, every
single one of them. According to these rhymes we tell
our children, right, So, and I kinda I'm very proud
of you because I did get text message last night.
But what was the last movie you saw? It was
(01:34):
a League of their Own and I was just like,
oh my gosh, I really wish I was sitting there
with you watching it. I would just want to know
your reaction. So tell me what is your review? Oh?
I loved it. I thought it was so fun. I
was like, this is why I'm so surprised it wasn't
already a part of your repertoire. Yeah. Yeah, I was
(01:57):
surprised how much I liked it because I was pretty
sure I was gonna like it. But in general, sports
movies aren't my thing, right right, And I was like,
how no offense to baseball? But you know it's not
the most usually action packed, so you didn't watch the
(02:18):
rookie either I'm guessing the children or in the outfield.
I you know, I have a really funny memory of
angels in the outfield, because that's I think. I've told
you the story where I was nine years old and
I thought I was going to die because I had
just seen Air Force one and I have a very
overactive imagination and I saw some gas in the air. Um,
(02:39):
I drinking an entire six pack of Fresco because I
thought it was beer and I wanted to get drunk
one time before I died. I don't know what that
says about me. But Angels on the Outfield that was
the movie that was playing when I did this, So
I did see that the correlation. What about filled the Dreams?
I did not see that. No, you've never seen that.
(02:59):
No should I. If you build it, they will come.
I'm just saying from there. Um, I loved that movie.
I loved The Sad Lot, which apparently I was. I
haven't seen it in a while, but I did someone
tweet saying that it did not age well. So even
(03:19):
though I don't care for baseball, I loved all of
those movies because it has that sentimentality like, um, of
this is what the good Old Days was supposed to be,
or looked like. It has this kind of nationalism, which,
you know, thinking back on it definitely seems propaganda ish,
(03:40):
but yeah, I can't help it. I'm like, you know what,
I'm supposed to be American, and I want to be
all American type of person, so this fits in right,
So if I don't really like baseball, I can at
least enjoy the movies, right right, Yeah, I guess I did.
(04:00):
I didn't pick up on this. I'm sad that I
missed the League of their Own because I did love it,
and that is the topic of our feminist movie Friday
this time after Samantha. Yes, she was so disappointed that
I hadn't seen it. So I think I'm both disappointed
and shocked. It was just like a kind of like
(04:22):
I was awe struck that this was not a part
of your movie. Yeah, well now it is. Now it is.
I'm so happy now it is. Um And yes, this
was also partly inspired by our Baseball episode, so you
can see that for the real history that inspired this film.
Um And Yeah, like we mentioned in that episode, it
is getting an Amazon Prime reboot with more awaren of
(04:44):
Color and l G B t Q plus characters and storylines.
So yeah, interesting to see where that goes. Also, this
is gonna be fun because I wrote the description before
I've seen it, So now I'm going to see how
accurate I was or road what you wrote a description
before you saw it? Yeah, okay, what do you just
(05:05):
kind of like Okay, this is what I know of it.
I know it was about the history, and we had
just done that Baseball episode and I was reading articles
about the feminism of it. So I was like, okay, UM,
let's see how this actually plays out. And I already
know I got one thing wrong, so that's it's interesting.
Um alright. So A League of Their Own is a
(05:25):
nine film directed by Penny Marshall and it starred Gina Davis,
Rosie O'donnald Macdonna, Lori Petty, and Tom Hanks. It went
on to make over a hundred million dollars over a
hundred million dollars, not one million, UM, making Marshal the
first female director in history to have two movies across
that mark, the other movie being Big Um. And it
(05:46):
also napped two Golden Globe nominations. At the time, this
was a pretty big accomplishment in itself to have a
movie directed by woman and starring primarily women, and telling
a story largely about these women and their relationships with
each other. They're like romance is very minimal in this movie. UM.
Women in sports movies were rare too, outside of being
(06:09):
usually the support of mother, girlfriend, wife, daughter, UM and
Marshall even spoke about this, saying that when Sony signed her,
they told her, well, even let you make that girl's movie. Wow.
How nice of them. Um. It was co written by
the son of an EXIGUE player and another X player,
Levon Davis, consulted on the movie. Yes, and like we
(06:32):
said in the previous episode about baseball, it tells the
true story of the All American Girls Professional Baseball League,
or the A A g p b L. But in brief,
here's the story. The a A g p b L
was one of the first women's leagues and certainly the
most successful, established in nineteen forty three when many of
the male players left to fight in World War Two.
(06:54):
It did continue for about a decade after the war ended,
and the film follows some of the players the league.
The actors reportedly trained for months to learn how to
play baseball and played real games for footage for the film,
which is fantastic. That sounds fun, that sounds painful. Did
you see those bruises? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going
to talk about that later. But Gina Davis said in
(07:16):
an interview, Um, how many bruises and scrapes they got
playing in those outfits and UM we mentioned that briefly
in our baseball episode about like how can you you
don't have the same protection sliding to basses? Not helpful? No,
they really weren't. They really weren't. UM. And this movie
(07:36):
is considered to be majorly impactful and twelve. The Library
of Congress chose it to be added to the United
States National Film Registry for being quote culturally historically, are
esthetically significant and a lot of people and you listeners
have expressed how important this movie was in terms of
what we believed women could do, what a woman was
(07:56):
and could be, and a lot of people described it
as an entry point into feminism for them. Several of
the baseball players we referenced in that episode the Baseball
also mentioned seeing a league of their own as being
this formative experience and an inspiration for them. But they'd
never known that history, that seeing women play baseball was powerful.
(08:18):
It was a great way to tell a story. So
speaking of the story, let's talk about the plot. UM.
The main characters are Dottie stoic, no nonsense and her
husband is away at war in the army. UM Jimmy
Dugan played by Tom Hanks, who you know has some
really good iconic lines. Who was their alcoholic team manager?
Which he has. That's how you introduced his attempts at Stern,
(08:41):
often softened by his demeanor to so nice. He's just
the lovable guy. Uh. Then you have May nickname all
the way May, played by of course Madonna Um, and
she's sort of the quote bad girl, always making jokes,
smoking cigarettes, having sex to all the lu jokes. I
love her. Rosie o'donald plays Doris, essentially the embodiment of
(09:02):
quote I'm not having it. And then there's Kit, Dottie's
younger sister who is sick of being in her shadow,
played by Lori Petty Yes. And the movie opens with
formal baseball player Dottie Henson played by Gina Davis, attending
the opening of an exhibit on the A G P
B L at the Baseball Hall of Fame after she's
tried to her talk her way out of it. She
(09:25):
was very nervous to go, reluctant to go Um, but
when she gets there, she sees her past friends or colleagues,
and she reminisces via flashback of her time as a
player for the rock Ford Peaches, which was one of
the A A, G P b L teams, one of
the original founding teams. With World War Two threatening baseball
(09:47):
in this country, owner of the Harvey Candy Bar Empire,
he gets this idea. Basically, this rich guy gets this
idea to put together a women's league to save baseball. UM,
the person in charge of recruiting played by John Lovice
Caesar play at a local game. Um and attempts to
convince her to try out for the league, but Dottie refuses,
(10:08):
saying she's happy with her life on a farm her husband.
She's waiting for him to get back. However, her sister
Kit is very, very excited about this, very eager for
something new. She wants to get out of their small
town and she is. She goes for it, but the
scouting guy tells her she will only be accepted if
(10:29):
she convinces Dottie to come along. That Dottie has the
goods and she doesn't. Basically, he's saying that Dottie is
very pretty and she is not Um. Also, she didn't
play as well in that particular game that he saw. UM.
Dottie roulence and agrees for her sister Um. At tryouts,
they meet the cast of characters all the way May
(10:51):
Doris Murphy, Betty Spaghetti Horne, Shirley Baker, Ellen sued Gotlander,
Marla Hooch, and several others, all encompassing a wide swath
of woman and experiences. Those who are chosen. Um, after
the tryouts are split to four teams, the Rockford Peaches,
the Receiving Bells, the Kenosha Comments and the South Bend
Blue Socks. Right, so the main cast goes on to
(11:12):
be a part of the Rockford Peaches, managed by Jimmy Dougan,
unfortunately because he doesn't want to be there, but he's
doing it because it has to and he can't go
to war because of his injury. Blah blah blah. Um.
They have to deal with the chaperone and the annoying
child of one of the players who was really funny
I will say who they later grow to tolerate and
even like. The team is covered by Live magazine and
(11:34):
there are urged to do something to catch the public
eye to boost flailing attendance. I love those things, by
the way. Um, Dottie rises to the challenge catching a
ball while doing a split in address in a short skirt. Uh.
And this ends up on the cover, and sure enough,
more and more people start to attend the games and
they find success, friendship and commoderie. A. Yeah, they do
(11:57):
encounter plenty of sexism and paytriarchy all along the way.
I mean from Marla who was hitting just amazing and
then when the scout saw her face was like no
because she wasn't traditionally beautiful and only through a dottie
and kit refusing to go and like a heartfelt speech
by her dad did Mary get to go? Um? And
(12:19):
then yeah, when they see the skirts, the uniforms are like,
how are these are not baseball uniforms? Are we going
to play in that? Um? Yeah, priority is given to
more attractive players. There are jeers that women can't play baseball,
and of course, yeah, there is no crying in baseball, um,
which they often challenge head on. I think it's Ellen
(12:40):
sus Or is a baseball at that guy's really fantastic,
Like he comes out and does all of this like
oh I'm just a girl, and then she throws it
at his head beautiful noximover beautiful. Yes. Um. When the
league was first founded, the players were forced to attend
charm school, where they were taught how to wear their makeup,
(13:03):
how to wear their clothes, how to wear their hair,
how to act, no drinking or smoking, no dating without
a chaperone, pretty much no doing anything without chaperone yep um.
And this was presented as selling femininity, the image of
the girl next door, particularly to ben overseas, and also
to prevent anyone from thinking any of the players were
lesbians heaven for did um, even though many of them were.
(13:28):
It's never really like in the movie, but true historically. Yes.
At one point, Rosie o'donnald's character says, people always made
me feel like I was a weird girl or not
even a girl, just because I could play. I believed
them too, but not anymore. I mean, look at there's
a lot of us, right. And then she tears up
the picture of her boyfriend and throws it out the window,
(13:50):
loving it so uh. In the movie, there's a radio
report and it goes quote careers, and I want to
try to do it like the woman she was so fantastic,
But I don't think I can because I don't have
that disdain. But I'll try. Careers in higher education are
leading to the masculization of women, with enormously dangerous consequence
(14:11):
to the home, the children, and our country. When our
boys come home from war, what kind of girls will
they be were coming home too. So there's also, of
course racism, and we did talk a little bit about
that in our episode about baseball. Black women were not
allowed to play in the league, and this is briefly
hinted at, and one of the scenes where a black
(14:31):
player throws a pitch to a very far away catcher
and then walks away, and this is supposed to be
based on Mammy Johnson who we mentioned in our episode. Yes.
As Dottie becomes the star of the team, Kit fumes
and their sibling rivalry reaches the point that Kit is
traded to their scene Bells, which leads to a pretty
(14:54):
big fight between them. One of the Peaches team members
leaves after learning her husband died in the war, and
when Dottie's husband returns injured, she was planning on doing
the same. However, she changes her mind and returns for
the World series matchup between the Racine Bells and the
Rockford Peaches, pitting the sisters Dottie and Kit against each other.
(15:17):
There were scene Bells. It's a it's a tight game,
but the scene bells are victorious after Kit ignores the
sign from the third base coach to play at stafe
and stay there and knocks her sister over on home
plate and knocks the ball out of her hands. It's
such a great scene. And by the way, the husband
is Bill Pullman, justin case no one knew, and I
(15:38):
love because he's just on there for like a very blip.
But I'm like yeah, and they showed him in the
stands and he's like, that's far. However, the sisters they
do make up after the game, um, and Dottie returns
home to the farm to be with her husband. Why
(16:00):
I'll Kit continues to play most of the other women
continues to play for a couple of seasons. Um. And
through this throughout there's like this undercurrent of when the
men get back from war, it's going to be canceled. Um.
But uh was his name, Sloan Stein, Sloand's creator. H
(16:20):
he that guy? Um? He and I was close. I
was close. Uh. Yeah, he stepped in. He proved, well,
he didn't prove the women proved, but he he was
kind of behind the scenes fighting the fight to to
(16:40):
argue that they should continue once Um, the war was
over and men came back, and he did for for
a couple of seasons. UM, and then cut back to
flashback over the exhibit and they're all kind of like
talking with each other and like, oh, what are you
up to these days? Looking at the images? Um. It's
(17:01):
very sweet. Yeah, it is really sweet. I do love that. Um.
Mr Harvey, the one who created the game essentially, or
the teams or the league rather, is played by Gay Marshall.
You gotta love that, which is the brother of Penny Marshall. Um.
They're such a great duous feel like. But yeah, I
did love the beginning scenes because you see reference to
(17:22):
Dottie and no one knowing who she was because she
left within the first after the first year, but she
could have been one of the greatest players. I think
that's kind of how they described her out of how
amazing she was mm hmm. But hey, you gotta do
what you gotta do. Yeah, and we're going to talk
about that, but first we're gonna pause her quick break
for from her sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor.
(17:59):
So yeah, we did want to touch on some themes,
the first one being feminism. Surprise so women getting sweaty, dirty,
athletic and are actually talented what and at this time
there are trailblazers. For many of the characters, baseball was
away and perhaps the only way to escape boring or
abusive situations. It was a way for them to have
(18:20):
a profession, developed their skills and be compensated, and also
to develop female friendships, which is fantastic. They're at times angry,
they were sad, they're passionate, they were even lustful Madonna. Um. Yeah,
And while I was watching this, I I got I
have never really thought about it before, but it is
(18:41):
interesting that the especially kind of you know, nostalgic um
idea of a father's son bonding moment is playing catch,
like you go out and play catch, and there's not
really that equivalent with daughter. Um. I would say I
(19:05):
was probably the most active one among my siblings, and
my dad and I used to just kick like a
soccer ball back and forth, so I guess we had
sort of that thing going. But it is interesting, as
you say that, because in the characters that you see
Marla his speech, he says that he treated her like
a boy and don't know how to treat her like
a girl after the mom dies, and as in fact,
(19:26):
you also see Rosie o'donald's father who comes in to
watch his games say he's coming to see his daughter
play and he's gonna take her out for a big sake,
which is exactly kind of that reminiscent mill father's son
bonding you see, but it's being changed into oh I
can do this with girls too. Yeah, But that's an
interesting thing because, like we talked about in our baseball episode,
(19:48):
there still is this very like baseball is a masculine
thing and they were kind of breaking gender norms by
doing it, so like the act in itself is masculinalized.
So I still feel like it's got this idea of like, oh,
I can bond with my daughter the way I would
do with a son. Like it's not like, you know
(20:10):
what I mean, they're kind of fitting it in to
the question of how gendered is the way we raise children? Yeah,
and what do we look at Not that I should
take away from it thinking if that's what you enjoy,
that's wonderful, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we should
limited in that scope. That's a big of a big question.
I'll leave the phone, um Also, by the way, when
(20:31):
this came out, we were in the midst of third
way feminism, so it was kind of like a push
of hey, look, women did things a long time ago
and they can still do things. How about that? Yeah,
this was like, uh, you know Delma Louise also came
out Buffy the Vampire Slayer Charms, which I could have
a fun We talked about it, like, which is having
(20:53):
this resurgence during third weight feminism? Um, so yeah, it
was a part of that. And then yeah, this idea
of like ladylikeness versus manliness and how women or gay
athletes entering a sport demasculinates it. And therefore there's this
need that we see in the movie to separate women
(21:15):
with Jesse outfits, to have them go to charm school,
to paint them as novelty acts, so as to not
threaten gender roles or the masculinity of the sport. Um
from Christine Holmond, images of muscular women are disconcerting, even threatening.
They disrupt the equation of men with strength and women
(21:35):
with weakness that underpins gender roles and power relations, and
that has by now come to seem familiar and comforting
to both women and men, and I wanted to add
in here. I did not get to talk about this.
I don't know if it was a thing yet when
I did my last of us to review, but I
talked about how a lot of um dudes game or
(21:57):
dudes are mad at that game. One of my favorite
ways they're protesting this game is they're trying to prove
that one of the main characters, Abby, who is really
really muscular, um, could not be that muscular. It's impossible
for her to be that muscular. And they're doing it
by following what they call the Abby workout, her workout,
(22:19):
and like taking pictures of their muscles. And I'm like, well,
I feel like she's had the this fictional character has
had the last laugh, because you are I mean, you're
improving yourself, right, you're working out lifting. I mean yeah.
They were by the image of this muscular woman. They
(22:40):
believed it was impossible. That they started working out to
prove it was impossible. So um, all right, UM. And
I will say that I did read some read the
ending of this movie as a returning to patriarchal norms,
that this was kind of like a gender It's just
like nonconforming period where we're breaking all the norms when
(23:01):
wartime was happening. Because in their reunion scene they all
mentioned their husbands. It's like the first thing I did
eventually stop this kind of you know, weird baseball thing
I was doing, and I got married and settled down
and like doing their patriotic duty when the men were
at war by playing and then leaving as part of
that when the men returned. Um. So that's that's one
(23:26):
interpretation I read um baseball as the American pastime. We
definitely talked about this that much when we did the
baseball episode, and it occurred to me that both baseball
and football North American football are the two sports where
I really can't think of a female equivalent. Um, like
(23:46):
there is, but you know it's much smaller. They're both American.
I was gonna say in the female version of the
football American football, is lingeraid football that was the only
way they could happen, and I'm like, what the bloody
hell are you? I could see you censoring yourself and
I'm that was a pause. But if we do call
(24:09):
it the American pastime, if it is that, then excluding
women from it means they aren't part of America's story
and that transgressing playing baseball, playing this American pastime threatens
America itself. That steep stuff. And of course, of course,
because this is what we do. Another favorite part of
(24:32):
this movie and a theme, is the female friendship. We
can live and love and help and support each other,
and this movie elevated that. I love it. So it's
described in a few places as a buddy movie for
women and family movie because you know, sisters, you gotta
love the sister's part um. I think they do a
great job in telling the stories how they really none
(24:53):
of them are competing with each other. There's a little
bit of competition between Dottie that's more familial than anything
else then gender based. But the rest of them are
really good at trying to help each other and push
each other. Of course you do have the catty main
girl bit a little bit, yeah, but it's not intense. Yeah.
And I really appreciated how, like, I mean, skill gotta
(25:16):
recognized skill because I feel like in the beginning, Doris
and all the way may kind of being braddy to
Dottie and then she like, show no, I'm good, and
they immediately You're like, oh no, I gotta I gotta
meet this person. I gotta know how she does what
she does. Like seeing that the skills and and the
(25:38):
areas where the other women excelled, Like, I really liked
that part of it. That right, they just respected each
other exactly that when they went through the trials and
all of them kind of came out together like, Okay,
we're all pretty good. Cool, cool, cool, we can do this. Um.
And every time we talk about Madonna in this movie Playground,
that song comes in at the end of the end
(25:58):
of the credits she who used to beat my playground?
Oh I still love that song. I love that song.
Oh my god, all the films anyway, going back, as
we were talking about, sisters, Kitty and Dottie step up
and it is beautiful for Marla after she's deemed as
not attractive enough to play despite displaying a ridiculous talent
(26:22):
in her abilities and refusing to get on that train
and putting their foot down literally and say we're not
leaving without her. I love that. Yeah, And there's a
lot of examples of that throughout the film. Another one
is one of the players can't read, another one steps
up to to help her and does it like in
a really kind and gentle, empathetic way. And then Madonna
(26:45):
later we see Madonna all the way may teaching her
how to read a porno. I believe it is a
romantic novel. How dare you? You're right? I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I gotta get these facts correct. Um. Yeah, just touching
examples throughout of them looking out for each other. Um.
(27:06):
And then yes, sisterhood. Um, that is a very big
theme throughout. Um, this rivalry between Kit and Dottie, where
Kit feels like, um, she's living in her sister's shadow,
and you do see that. I mean, she's not wrong
being told she's not as pretty, she's not as talented.
And then Dottie kind of doing the older sister thing
(27:28):
where she's very like always giving her tips, always kind
of critiquing her kindly, but like you know, always always
got to know it all. Yeah. Um, but yeah, and
I loved I loved that as well. I was worried
when I read. I didn't know that there's like a
(27:48):
sister drama in this, and I was like, oh no,
it isn't going to be super catty. And I mean
it got pretty intense, but it was never as bad
as I thought he was going to get right. Yeah,
and you know they in the end, Kit did what
she thought was right and she well it paid off
(28:10):
for her. Yeah. I always thought, though I didn't know
for sure, like do you think Dottie did it on purpose?
I wondered that. I don't know for sure, but I
always had this back of my head, like did she
accidentally or did she actually drop it on purpose? Yeah,
I don't know. I thought about it too. I think
she accidentally, um, because otherwise, I mean I'd be really
(28:38):
cutting for Kit to find out later. They seem like
the type that just respected good competition. But also it's possible.
I did think it too. I mean, like Dotty knowing
this was her last game leaving and then trying to
help her sister, maybe she felt like she owed her. Yeah, no,
it's definitely possible. Um. I also thought that when she
(28:58):
gave Ellen Sue a tip. At first, I was like, oh,
is that to help Kit? But then I realized no,
that's what she said in the beginning. Yeah, um, oh
that was going after her for sure. Yeah. There was
no mercy on that one. Yeah, but I, like I
thought their relationship was really fleshed out and I could
(29:19):
connect with as someone with siblings. They're no sisters, Um,
I can connect with those kind of dynamics. Oh yeah,
I have a sister and she was adorable, you know,
perfect blonde, small, cheerful woman. And then me coming in
coming in literally the adopted girl, um, under her shadow.
(29:40):
I can definitely feel that in comparison to how am I.
It has nothing to do with my sister, has everything
to do with my own and securities. And I get
relate to Kit on that and that childishness to want
to prove themselves as beyond and just as good, if
not better. Yeah, yeah, um. And I liked how um
(30:01):
did you know Tom Hanks's famous line is there's no
crying in baseball? But in the end, like, um, he
kind of gets to replay the scene and doesn't yell
at her when she's tearing up. But then also Kit
has that moment that Dottie sees where she's sort of
like tearing up and upset and people are kind of
being supportive of her. So um, it was nice, nice
(30:22):
to see. I loved it good yea. Um, And we
did want to talk about the legacy of this movie
a little bit before we close. Out here. But first
we're gonna pause for one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsoring.
(30:49):
So in a Bitch Media article called thanks to Sexism,
we still need a leak of their own twenty five
years later by Brittany Data Crate says um. She details
how many women and girls in baseball still faced the
sexism depicted in this movie, down to being outright mocked, um, undermined,
and laughed at. She cites the reporting sports journalist Jessica
(31:12):
Luther around they recently established girls travel Baseball, formed by
dads and daughters interested in playing the sport, and they
encountered all kinds of nonsense, boys teams dropping out of
tournaments when they learned they'd have to play against girls,
to the point they'd enter only the first initial and
the last name on the g T P roster to
hide the gender of the players. Um, grown men heckling them. Um,
(31:36):
real nice. The MLB didn't ban the practice of hazing
rookies by making them wear the A A G P
B l outfits until um, of course he's from mail
mail rookies, So that's pretty recent, right, And baseball players
just still seen as men, as are the fans. Women's
clothing is still police, not just in baseball, but in
(31:59):
others boards as well and in general. Um Gina Davis
shared in interviews that the actors would be covered in
scrapes and bruises because they lacked the protection playing that
men's clothes would have offered them. I mean, just the
scenes of them, they had that whole little montage of
all of the injuries they had. I was like, I
(32:20):
wasn't paying looking at that. I could not imagine because
you were thinking, Okay, so they're expected to play like this,
but that they get hit with balls and such, they
don't have any covering on them. They're just literal flesh
that gets hit by something. Yeah what Yeah, they weren't
even wearing helmets. I don't but helmets weren't being used
at that point. I guess in any baseball wouldn't. Yeah,
(32:43):
I mean it's one of those things were in a
weird way. It feels almost um and I put heavy
quotes on this, but like tougher, Like they had to
be tougher than now players because they were being forced
to wear these outfits. Um And like I can just
imagine because I've had that like sliding into home base
a couple of times without you know, like in short
(33:05):
or something, and it hurts. And like the pause that
I would take in my brain knowing this is gonna hurt,
it can cost you a game because like you're that minute,
like split second of oh god, this is gonna hurt. Um.
So I'm sure it affected gameplay. No, um, and I am.
I'm very interested to see what the Amazon Prime show
(33:26):
will be like. I'm excited. I'm excited about what that's
gonna be like. And by the way, um, I don't know,
I didn't know this until looking it up, but Dolores
Lee was an extra in the movie who is an
a a g p p L player. She was a
former player and she was in the stands and one
of the things I'll have to go back and look
for her, but she was actually in the movie as well,
(33:46):
and they do give credit to her, which is nice
to see. But I'm really excited to see what the
show could look like that it looks like a lot
of good actual storytelling, so as opposed to the movie,
like you do see a lot of historical things, but
they bring in a lot more depth. I guess you
need TV series. But I'm excited to see what that
looks like. Yeah, yeah, me too. Um And I guess
(34:08):
in closing, this movie has a lasting legacy, and it
inspired a new wave of players of events honoring players
from the movie. But we still have a long way
to go. Um, and I'm I'm happy to see some
of that progress being made. One of the actors from
the film, Megan Kavanagh, told the Chicago Tribune. I hear
(34:30):
it all the time. People say we watched the movie
on the bus on the way to our games. So
many girls say if it wasn't for that movie, they
wouldn't have played ball. What more can you ask for? Yeah,
I mean I still watch it as a punk get
pumped movie sometimes. I told you this was my movie,
one of my movies to watch while the election was
(34:53):
happening and giving myself some hope. Um, and just really
for a different turnout. And I don't know, I guess
maybe this year, Anny, you wanna, you wanna join me
for my get pumped movies? Yes, okay, so this is
this is gonna be my tradition. So I'm gonna be
watching the league of their own. I think last time
(35:14):
I watched that enough, First Wives Club whichever made you
watch before, And I don't know why First Wives Club,
but it just made me feel like because well I
think actually I do know why now that I thing
about it. Um anyway, Um, but just kind of like
in hopes that women can just be on top after
being wronged so many times. That was kind of that theme.
(35:36):
But yeah, we'll have to let's look into that another
movie to it. Yeah, I'll I'll think if I have
any movies like that, I'm sure do. Um And if
you listeners, if you have any movies for that list, oh,
please send them to us, um and also let us
know what our next movie pick should be. You can
(35:57):
email us at Stephidia mom Stuff at ihart media dot com.
You can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never
Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks
as always to a super producer, Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrew,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You.
His protection of I Heart Radio for more podcasts or
my Heart Radio vis iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Danny and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.
I've never told you objection. I heart radio. So here's
my question for you today. Samantha. Okay, what was the
(00:25):
last movie you watched? Oh that's that's not fair, because
I've rewatched things and I feel like I'm a loser.
I actually just watched The Conjuring too, because I realized
it was on HBO Max, and I was like, oh, yeah,
I love this movie. Well, not necessarily love this movie,
but I just love horror films in general. So it's
been a while since I've seen that one. Yeah, sounds
(00:47):
like I'm a big fan. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, the
Crooked Man. Yeah, that Crooked Man one is always freakish. Yes,
I'm trying to I'm actually trying to write a scary
children's rhyme right now. Um, and I was thinking about
that one. You know, the ones that are like not
meant to be scary, but when you really think about it,
(01:09):
they're pretty freaky. Yeah. Well, I mean anything involving witches
and such. You're like, oh my god, that's really bad. Yeah.
They're all trying to poison you and eat you, every
single one of them. According to these rhymes we tell
our children, right, So, and I kinda I'm very proud
of you because I did get text message last night.
But what was the last movie you saw? It was
(01:34):
a League of their Own and I was just like,
oh my gosh, I really wish I was sitting there
with you watching it. I would just want to know
your reaction. So tell me what is your review? Oh?
I loved it. I thought it was so fun. I
was like, this is why I'm so surprised it wasn't
already a part of your repertoire. Yeah. Yeah, I was
(01:57):
surprised how much I liked it because I was pretty
sure I was gonna like it. But in general, sports
movies aren't my thing, right right, And I was like,
how no offense to baseball? But you know it's not
the most usually action packed, so you didn't watch the
(02:18):
rookie either I'm guessing the children or in the outfield.
I you know, I have a really funny memory of
angels in the outfield, because that's I think. I've told
you the story where I was nine years old and
I thought I was going to die because I had
just seen Air Force one and I have a very
overactive imagination and I saw some gas in the air. Um,
(02:39):
I drinking an entire six pack of Fresco because I
thought it was beer and I wanted to get drunk
one time before I died. I don't know what that
says about me. But Angels on the Outfield that was
the movie that was playing when I did this, So
I did see that the correlation. What about filled the Dreams?
I did not see that. No, you've never seen that.
(02:59):
No should I. If you build it, they will come.
I'm just saying from there. Um, I loved that movie.
I loved The Sad Lot, which apparently I was. I
haven't seen it in a while, but I did someone
tweet saying that it did not age well. So even
(03:19):
though I don't care for baseball, I loved all of
those movies because it has that sentimentality like, um, of
this is what the good Old Days was supposed to be,
or looked like. It has this kind of nationalism, which,
you know, thinking back on it definitely seems propaganda ish,
(03:40):
but yeah, I can't help it. I'm like, you know what,
I'm supposed to be American, and I want to be
all American type of person, so this fits in right,
So if I don't really like baseball, I can at
least enjoy the movies, right right, Yeah, I guess I did.
(04:00):
I didn't pick up on this. I'm sad that I
missed the League of their Own because I did love it,
and that is the topic of our feminist movie Friday
this time after Samantha. Yes, she was so disappointed that
I hadn't seen it. So I think I'm both disappointed
and shocked. It was just like a kind of like
(04:22):
I was awe struck that this was not a part
of your movie. Yeah, well now it is. Now it is.
I'm so happy now it is. Um And yes, this
was also partly inspired by our Baseball episode, so you
can see that for the real history that inspired this film.
Um And Yeah, like we mentioned in that episode, it
is getting an Amazon Prime reboot with more awaren of
(04:44):
Color and l G B t Q plus characters and storylines.
So yeah, interesting to see where that goes. Also, this
is gonna be fun because I wrote the description before
I've seen it, So now I'm going to see how
accurate I was or road what you wrote a description
before you saw it? Yeah, okay, what do you just
(05:05):
kind of like Okay, this is what I know of it.
I know it was about the history, and we had
just done that Baseball episode and I was reading articles
about the feminism of it. So I was like, okay, UM,
let's see how this actually plays out. And I already
know I got one thing wrong, so that's it's interesting.
Um alright. So A League of Their Own is a
(05:25):
nine film directed by Penny Marshall and it starred Gina Davis,
Rosie O'donnald Macdonna, Lori Petty, and Tom Hanks. It went
on to make over a hundred million dollars over a
hundred million dollars, not one million, UM, making Marshal the
first female director in history to have two movies across
that mark, the other movie being Big Um. And it
(05:46):
also napped two Golden Globe nominations. At the time, this
was a pretty big accomplishment in itself to have a
movie directed by woman and starring primarily women, and telling
a story largely about these women and their relationships with
each other. They're like romance is very minimal in this movie. UM.
Women in sports movies were rare too, outside of being
(06:09):
usually the support of mother, girlfriend, wife, daughter, UM and
Marshall even spoke about this, saying that when Sony signed her,
they told her, well, even let you make that girl's movie. Wow.
How nice of them. Um. It was co written by
the son of an EXIGUE player and another X player,
Levon Davis, consulted on the movie. Yes, and like we
(06:32):
said in the previous episode about baseball, it tells the
true story of the All American Girls Professional Baseball League,
or the A A g p b L. But in brief,
here's the story. The a A g p b L
was one of the first women's leagues and certainly the
most successful, established in nineteen forty three when many of
the male players left to fight in World War Two.
(06:54):
It did continue for about a decade after the war ended,
and the film follows some of the players the league.
The actors reportedly trained for months to learn how to
play baseball and played real games for footage for the film,
which is fantastic. That sounds fun, that sounds painful. Did
you see those bruises? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going
to talk about that later. But Gina Davis said in
(07:16):
an interview, Um, how many bruises and scrapes they got
playing in those outfits and UM we mentioned that briefly
in our baseball episode about like how can you you
don't have the same protection sliding to basses? Not helpful? No,
they really weren't. They really weren't. UM. And this movie
(07:36):
is considered to be majorly impactful and twelve. The Library
of Congress chose it to be added to the United
States National Film Registry for being quote culturally historically, are
esthetically significant and a lot of people and you listeners
have expressed how important this movie was in terms of
what we believed women could do, what a woman was
(07:56):
and could be, and a lot of people described it
as an entry point into feminism for them. Several of
the baseball players we referenced in that episode the Baseball
also mentioned seeing a league of their own as being
this formative experience and an inspiration for them. But they'd
never known that history, that seeing women play baseball was powerful.
(08:18):
It was a great way to tell a story. So
speaking of the story, let's talk about the plot. UM.
The main characters are Dottie stoic, no nonsense and her
husband is away at war in the army. UM Jimmy
Dugan played by Tom Hanks, who you know has some
really good iconic lines. Who was their alcoholic team manager?
Which he has. That's how you introduced his attempts at Stern,
(08:41):
often softened by his demeanor to so nice. He's just
the lovable guy. Uh. Then you have May nickname all
the way May, played by of course Madonna Um, and
she's sort of the quote bad girl, always making jokes,
smoking cigarettes, having sex to all the lu jokes. I
love her. Rosie o'donald plays Doris, essentially the embodiment of
(09:02):
quote I'm not having it. And then there's Kit, Dottie's
younger sister who is sick of being in her shadow,
played by Lori Petty Yes. And the movie opens with
formal baseball player Dottie Henson played by Gina Davis, attending
the opening of an exhibit on the A G P
B L at the Baseball Hall of Fame after she's
tried to her talk her way out of it. She
(09:25):
was very nervous to go, reluctant to go Um, but
when she gets there, she sees her past friends or colleagues,
and she reminisces via flashback of her time as a
player for the rock Ford Peaches, which was one of
the A A, G P b L teams, one of
the original founding teams. With World War Two threatening baseball
(09:47):
in this country, owner of the Harvey Candy Bar Empire,
he gets this idea. Basically, this rich guy gets this
idea to put together a women's league to save baseball. UM,
the person in charge of recruiting played by John Lovice
Caesar play at a local game. Um and attempts to
convince her to try out for the league, but Dottie refuses,
(10:08):
saying she's happy with her life on a farm her husband.
She's waiting for him to get back. However, her sister
Kit is very, very excited about this, very eager for
something new. She wants to get out of their small
town and she is. She goes for it, but the
scouting guy tells her she will only be accepted if
(10:29):
she convinces Dottie to come along. That Dottie has the
goods and she doesn't. Basically, he's saying that Dottie is
very pretty and she is not Um. Also, she didn't
play as well in that particular game that he saw. UM.
Dottie roulence and agrees for her sister Um. At tryouts,
they meet the cast of characters all the way May
(10:51):
Doris Murphy, Betty Spaghetti Horne, Shirley Baker, Ellen sued Gotlander,
Marla Hooch, and several others, all encompassing a wide swath
of woman and experiences. Those who are chosen. Um, after
the tryouts are split to four teams, the Rockford Peaches,
the Receiving Bells, the Kenosha Comments and the South Bend
Blue Socks. Right, so the main cast goes on to
(11:12):
be a part of the Rockford Peaches, managed by Jimmy Dougan,
unfortunately because he doesn't want to be there, but he's
doing it because it has to and he can't go
to war because of his injury. Blah blah blah. Um.
They have to deal with the chaperone and the annoying
child of one of the players who was really funny
I will say who they later grow to tolerate and
even like. The team is covered by Live magazine and
(11:34):
there are urged to do something to catch the public
eye to boost flailing attendance. I love those things, by
the way. Um, Dottie rises to the challenge catching a
ball while doing a split in address in a short skirt. Uh.
And this ends up on the cover, and sure enough,
more and more people start to attend the games and
they find success, friendship and commoderie. A. Yeah, they do
(11:57):
encounter plenty of sexism and paytriarchy all along the way.
I mean from Marla who was hitting just amazing and
then when the scout saw her face was like no
because she wasn't traditionally beautiful and only through a dottie
and kit refusing to go and like a heartfelt speech
by her dad did Mary get to go? Um? And
(12:19):
then yeah, when they see the skirts, the uniforms are like,
how are these are not baseball uniforms? Are we going
to play in that? Um? Yeah, priority is given to
more attractive players. There are jeers that women can't play baseball,
and of course, yeah, there is no crying in baseball, um,
which they often challenge head on. I think it's Ellen
(12:40):
sus Or is a baseball at that guy's really fantastic,
Like he comes out and does all of this like
oh I'm just a girl, and then she throws it
at his head beautiful noximover beautiful. Yes. Um. When the
league was first founded, the players were forced to attend
charm school, where they were taught how to wear their makeup,
(13:03):
how to wear their clothes, how to wear their hair,
how to act, no drinking or smoking, no dating without
a chaperone, pretty much no doing anything without chaperone yep um.
And this was presented as selling femininity, the image of
the girl next door, particularly to ben overseas, and also
to prevent anyone from thinking any of the players were
lesbians heaven for did um, even though many of them were.
(13:28):
It's never really like in the movie, but true historically. Yes.
At one point, Rosie o'donnald's character says, people always made
me feel like I was a weird girl or not
even a girl, just because I could play. I believed
them too, but not anymore. I mean, look at there's
a lot of us, right. And then she tears up
the picture of her boyfriend and throws it out the window,
(13:50):
loving it so uh. In the movie, there's a radio
report and it goes quote careers, and I want to
try to do it like the woman she was so fantastic,
But I don't think I can because I don't have
that disdain. But I'll try. Careers in higher education are
leading to the masculization of women, with enormously dangerous consequence
(14:11):
to the home, the children, and our country. When our
boys come home from war, what kind of girls will
they be were coming home too. So there's also, of
course racism, and we did talk a little bit about
that in our episode about baseball. Black women were not
allowed to play in the league, and this is briefly
hinted at, and one of the scenes where a black
(14:31):
player throws a pitch to a very far away catcher
and then walks away, and this is supposed to be
based on Mammy Johnson who we mentioned in our episode. Yes.
As Dottie becomes the star of the team, Kit fumes
and their sibling rivalry reaches the point that Kit is
traded to their scene Bells, which leads to a pretty
(14:54):
big fight between them. One of the Peaches team members
leaves after learning her husband died in the war, and
when Dottie's husband returns injured, she was planning on doing
the same. However, she changes her mind and returns for
the World series matchup between the Racine Bells and the
Rockford Peaches, pitting the sisters Dottie and Kit against each other.
(15:17):
There were scene Bells. It's a it's a tight game,
but the scene bells are victorious after Kit ignores the
sign from the third base coach to play at stafe
and stay there and knocks her sister over on home
plate and knocks the ball out of her hands. It's
such a great scene. And by the way, the husband
is Bill Pullman, justin case no one knew, and I
(15:38):
love because he's just on there for like a very blip.
But I'm like yeah, and they showed him in the
stands and he's like, that's far. However, the sisters they
do make up after the game, um, and Dottie returns
home to the farm to be with her husband. Why
(16:00):
I'll Kit continues to play most of the other women
continues to play for a couple of seasons. Um. And
through this throughout there's like this undercurrent of when the
men get back from war, it's going to be canceled. Um.
But uh was his name, Sloan Stein, Sloand's creator. H
(16:20):
he that guy? Um? He and I was close. I
was close. Uh. Yeah, he stepped in. He proved, well,
he didn't prove the women proved, but he he was
kind of behind the scenes fighting the fight to to
(16:40):
argue that they should continue once Um, the war was
over and men came back, and he did for for
a couple of seasons. UM, and then cut back to
flashback over the exhibit and they're all kind of like
talking with each other and like, oh, what are you
up to these days? Looking at the images? Um. It's
(17:01):
very sweet. Yeah, it is really sweet. I do love that. Um.
Mr Harvey, the one who created the game essentially, or
the teams or the league rather, is played by Gay Marshall.
You gotta love that, which is the brother of Penny Marshall. Um.
They're such a great duous feel like. But yeah, I
did love the beginning scenes because you see reference to
(17:22):
Dottie and no one knowing who she was because she
left within the first after the first year, but she
could have been one of the greatest players. I think
that's kind of how they described her out of how
amazing she was mm hmm. But hey, you gotta do
what you gotta do. Yeah, and we're going to talk
about that, but first we're gonna pause her quick break
for from her sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor.
(17:59):
So yeah, we did want to touch on some themes,
the first one being feminism. Surprise so women getting sweaty, dirty,
athletic and are actually talented what and at this time
there are trailblazers. For many of the characters, baseball was
away and perhaps the only way to escape boring or
abusive situations. It was a way for them to have
(18:20):
a profession, developed their skills and be compensated, and also
to develop female friendships, which is fantastic. They're at times angry,
they were sad, they're passionate, they were even lustful Madonna. Um. Yeah,
And while I was watching this, I I got I
have never really thought about it before, but it is
(18:41):
interesting that the especially kind of you know, nostalgic um
idea of a father's son bonding moment is playing catch,
like you go out and play catch, and there's not
really that equivalent with daughter. Um. I would say I
(19:05):
was probably the most active one among my siblings, and
my dad and I used to just kick like a
soccer ball back and forth, so I guess we had
sort of that thing going. But it is interesting, as
you say that, because in the characters that you see
Marla his speech, he says that he treated her like
a boy and don't know how to treat her like
a girl after the mom dies, and as in fact,
(19:26):
you also see Rosie o'donald's father who comes in to
watch his games say he's coming to see his daughter
play and he's gonna take her out for a big sake,
which is exactly kind of that reminiscent mill father's son
bonding you see, but it's being changed into oh I
can do this with girls too. Yeah, But that's an
interesting thing because, like we talked about in our baseball episode,
(19:48):
there still is this very like baseball is a masculine
thing and they were kind of breaking gender norms by
doing it, so like the act in itself is masculinalized.
So I still feel like it's got this idea of like, oh,
I can bond with my daughter the way I would
do with a son. Like it's not like, you know
(20:10):
what I mean, they're kind of fitting it in to
the question of how gendered is the way we raise children? Yeah,
and what do we look at Not that I should
take away from it thinking if that's what you enjoy,
that's wonderful, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we should
limited in that scope. That's a big of a big question.
I'll leave the phone, um Also, by the way, when
(20:31):
this came out, we were in the midst of third
way feminism, so it was kind of like a push
of hey, look, women did things a long time ago
and they can still do things. How about that? Yeah,
this was like, uh, you know Delma Louise also came
out Buffy the Vampire Slayer Charms, which I could have
a fun We talked about it, like, which is having
(20:53):
this resurgence during third weight feminism? Um, so yeah, it
was a part of that. And then yeah, this idea
of like ladylikeness versus manliness and how women or gay
athletes entering a sport demasculinates it. And therefore there's this
need that we see in the movie to separate women
(21:15):
with Jesse outfits, to have them go to charm school,
to paint them as novelty acts, so as to not
threaten gender roles or the masculinity of the sport. Um
from Christine Holmond, images of muscular women are disconcerting, even threatening.
They disrupt the equation of men with strength and women
(21:35):
with weakness that underpins gender roles and power relations, and
that has by now come to seem familiar and comforting
to both women and men, and I wanted to add
in here. I did not get to talk about this.
I don't know if it was a thing yet when
I did my last of us to review, but I
talked about how a lot of um dudes game or
(21:57):
dudes are mad at that game. One of my favorite
ways they're protesting this game is they're trying to prove
that one of the main characters, Abby, who is really
really muscular, um, could not be that muscular. It's impossible
for her to be that muscular. And they're doing it
by following what they call the Abby workout, her workout,
(22:19):
and like taking pictures of their muscles. And I'm like, well,
I feel like she's had the this fictional character has
had the last laugh, because you are I mean, you're
improving yourself, right, you're working out lifting. I mean yeah.
They were by the image of this muscular woman. They
(22:40):
believed it was impossible. That they started working out to
prove it was impossible. So um, all right, UM. And
I will say that I did read some read the
ending of this movie as a returning to patriarchal norms,
that this was kind of like a gender It's just
like nonconforming period where we're breaking all the norms when
(23:01):
wartime was happening. Because in their reunion scene they all
mentioned their husbands. It's like the first thing I did
eventually stop this kind of you know, weird baseball thing
I was doing, and I got married and settled down
and like doing their patriotic duty when the men were
at war by playing and then leaving as part of
that when the men returned. Um. So that's that's one
(23:26):
interpretation I read um baseball as the American pastime. We
definitely talked about this that much when we did the
baseball episode, and it occurred to me that both baseball
and football North American football are the two sports where
I really can't think of a female equivalent. Um, like
(23:46):
there is, but you know it's much smaller. They're both American.
I was gonna say in the female version of the
football American football, is lingeraid football that was the only
way they could happen, and I'm like, what the bloody
hell are you? I could see you censoring yourself and
I'm that was a pause. But if we do call
(24:09):
it the American pastime, if it is that, then excluding
women from it means they aren't part of America's story
and that transgressing playing baseball, playing this American pastime threatens
America itself. That steep stuff. And of course, of course,
because this is what we do. Another favorite part of
(24:32):
this movie and a theme, is the female friendship. We
can live and love and help and support each other,
and this movie elevated that. I love it. So it's
described in a few places as a buddy movie for
women and family movie because you know, sisters, you gotta
love the sister's part um. I think they do a
great job in telling the stories how they really none
(24:53):
of them are competing with each other. There's a little
bit of competition between Dottie that's more familial than anything
else then gender based. But the rest of them are
really good at trying to help each other and push
each other. Of course you do have the catty main
girl bit a little bit, yeah, but it's not intense. Yeah.
And I really appreciated how, like, I mean, skill gotta
(25:16):
recognized skill because I feel like in the beginning, Doris
and all the way may kind of being braddy to
Dottie and then she like, show no, I'm good, and
they immediately You're like, oh no, I gotta I gotta
meet this person. I gotta know how she does what
she does. Like seeing that the skills and and the
(25:38):
areas where the other women excelled, Like, I really liked
that part of it. That right, they just respected each
other exactly that when they went through the trials and
all of them kind of came out together like, Okay,
we're all pretty good. Cool, cool, cool, we can do this. Um.
And every time we talk about Madonna in this movie Playground,
that song comes in at the end of the end
(25:58):
of the credits she who used to beat my playground?
Oh I still love that song. I love that song.
Oh my god, all the films anyway, going back, as
we were talking about, sisters, Kitty and Dottie step up
and it is beautiful for Marla after she's deemed as
not attractive enough to play despite displaying a ridiculous talent
(26:22):
in her abilities and refusing to get on that train
and putting their foot down literally and say we're not
leaving without her. I love that. Yeah, And there's a
lot of examples of that throughout the film. Another one
is one of the players can't read, another one steps
up to to help her and does it like in
a really kind and gentle, empathetic way. And then Madonna
(26:45):
later we see Madonna all the way may teaching her
how to read a porno. I believe it is a
romantic novel. How dare you? You're right? I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I gotta get these facts correct. Um. Yeah, just touching
examples throughout of them looking out for each other. Um.
(27:06):
And then yes, sisterhood. Um, that is a very big
theme throughout. Um, this rivalry between Kit and Dottie, where
Kit feels like, um, she's living in her sister's shadow,
and you do see that. I mean, she's not wrong
being told she's not as pretty, she's not as talented.
And then Dottie kind of doing the older sister thing
(27:28):
where she's very like always giving her tips, always kind
of critiquing her kindly, but like you know, always always
got to know it all. Yeah. Um, but yeah, and
I loved I loved that as well. I was worried
when I read. I didn't know that there's like a
(27:48):
sister drama in this, and I was like, oh no,
it isn't going to be super catty. And I mean
it got pretty intense, but it was never as bad
as I thought he was going to get right. Yeah,
and you know they in the end, Kit did what
she thought was right and she well it paid off
(28:10):
for her. Yeah. I always thought, though I didn't know
for sure, like do you think Dottie did it on purpose?
I wondered that. I don't know for sure, but I
always had this back of my head, like did she
accidentally or did she actually drop it on purpose? Yeah,
I don't know. I thought about it too. I think
she accidentally, um, because otherwise, I mean I'd be really
(28:38):
cutting for Kit to find out later. They seem like
the type that just respected good competition. But also it's possible.
I did think it too. I mean, like Dotty knowing
this was her last game leaving and then trying to
help her sister, maybe she felt like she owed her. Yeah, no,
it's definitely possible. Um. I also thought that when she
(28:58):
gave Ellen Sue a tip. At first, I was like, oh,
is that to help Kit? But then I realized no,
that's what she said in the beginning. Yeah, um, oh
that was going after her for sure. Yeah. There was
no mercy on that one. Yeah, but I, like I
thought their relationship was really fleshed out and I could
(29:19):
connect with as someone with siblings. They're no sisters, Um,
I can connect with those kind of dynamics. Oh yeah,
I have a sister and she was adorable, you know,
perfect blonde, small, cheerful woman. And then me coming in
coming in literally the adopted girl, um, under her shadow.
(29:40):
I can definitely feel that in comparison to how am I.
It has nothing to do with my sister, has everything
to do with my own and securities. And I get
relate to Kit on that and that childishness to want
to prove themselves as beyond and just as good, if
not better. Yeah, yeah, um. And I liked how um
(30:01):
did you know Tom Hanks's famous line is there's no
crying in baseball? But in the end, like, um, he
kind of gets to replay the scene and doesn't yell
at her when she's tearing up. But then also Kit
has that moment that Dottie sees where she's sort of
like tearing up and upset and people are kind of
being supportive of her. So um, it was nice, nice
(30:22):
to see. I loved it good yea. Um, And we
did want to talk about the legacy of this movie
a little bit before we close. Out here. But first
we're gonna pause for one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsoring.
(30:49):
So in a Bitch Media article called thanks to Sexism,
we still need a leak of their own twenty five
years later by Brittany Data Crate says um. She details
how many women and girls in baseball still faced the
sexism depicted in this movie, down to being outright mocked, um, undermined,
and laughed at. She cites the reporting sports journalist Jessica
(31:12):
Luther around they recently established girls travel Baseball, formed by
dads and daughters interested in playing the sport, and they
encountered all kinds of nonsense, boys teams dropping out of
tournaments when they learned they'd have to play against girls,
to the point they'd enter only the first initial and
the last name on the g T P roster to
hide the gender of the players. Um, grown men heckling them. Um,
(31:36):
real nice. The MLB didn't ban the practice of hazing
rookies by making them wear the A A G P
B l outfits until um, of course he's from mail
mail rookies, So that's pretty recent, right, And baseball players
just still seen as men, as are the fans. Women's
clothing is still police, not just in baseball, but in
(31:59):
others boards as well and in general. Um Gina Davis
shared in interviews that the actors would be covered in
scrapes and bruises because they lacked the protection playing that
men's clothes would have offered them. I mean, just the
scenes of them, they had that whole little montage of
all of the injuries they had. I was like, I
(32:20):
wasn't paying looking at that. I could not imagine because
you were thinking, Okay, so they're expected to play like this,
but that they get hit with balls and such, they
don't have any covering on them. They're just literal flesh
that gets hit by something. Yeah what Yeah, they weren't
even wearing helmets. I don't but helmets weren't being used
at that point. I guess in any baseball wouldn't. Yeah,
(32:43):
I mean it's one of those things were in a
weird way. It feels almost um and I put heavy
quotes on this, but like tougher, Like they had to
be tougher than now players because they were being forced
to wear these outfits. Um And like I can just
imagine because I've had that like sliding into home base
a couple of times without you know, like in short
(33:05):
or something, and it hurts. And like the pause that
I would take in my brain knowing this is gonna hurt,
it can cost you a game because like you're that minute,
like split second of oh god, this is gonna hurt. Um.
So I'm sure it affected gameplay. No, um, and I am.
I'm very interested to see what the Amazon Prime show
(33:26):
will be like. I'm excited. I'm excited about what that's
gonna be like. And by the way, um, I don't know,
I didn't know this until looking it up, but Dolores
Lee was an extra in the movie who is an
a a g p p L player. She was a
former player and she was in the stands and one
of the things I'll have to go back and look
for her, but she was actually in the movie as well,
(33:46):
and they do give credit to her, which is nice
to see. But I'm really excited to see what the
show could look like that it looks like a lot
of good actual storytelling, so as opposed to the movie,
like you do see a lot of historical things, but
they bring in a lot more depth. I guess you
need TV series. But I'm excited to see what that
looks like. Yeah, yeah, me too. Um And I guess
(34:08):
in closing, this movie has a lasting legacy, and it
inspired a new wave of players of events honoring players
from the movie. But we still have a long way
to go. Um, and I'm I'm happy to see some
of that progress being made. One of the actors from
the film, Megan Kavanagh, told the Chicago Tribune. I hear
(34:30):
it all the time. People say we watched the movie
on the bus on the way to our games. So
many girls say if it wasn't for that movie, they
wouldn't have played ball. What more can you ask for? Yeah,
I mean I still watch it as a punk get
pumped movie sometimes. I told you this was my movie,
one of my movies to watch while the election was
(34:53):
happening and giving myself some hope. Um, and just really
for a different turnout. And I don't know, I guess
maybe this year, Anny, you wanna, you wanna join me
for my get pumped movies? Yes, okay, so this is
this is gonna be my tradition. So I'm gonna be
watching the league of their own. I think last time
(35:14):
I watched that enough, First Wives Club whichever made you
watch before, And I don't know why First Wives Club,
but it just made me feel like because well I
think actually I do know why now that I thing
about it. Um anyway, Um, but just kind of like
in hopes that women can just be on top after
being wronged so many times. That was kind of that theme.
(35:36):
But yeah, we'll have to let's look into that another
movie to it. Yeah, I'll I'll think if I have
any movies like that, I'm sure do. Um And if
you listeners, if you have any movies for that list, oh,
please send them to us, um and also let us
know what our next movie pick should be. You can
(35:57):
email us at Stephidia mom Stuff at ihart media dot com.
You can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never
Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks
as always to a super producer, Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrew,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You.
His protection of I Heart Radio for more podcasts or
my Heart Radio vis iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.