Feminist Movie Friday: Anne of Green Gables

SMNTY searches for bosom buddies and kindred spirits with the beloved 1985 series Anne of Green Gables. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stephan.
I never told your protection of iHeart Radio. Okay, Annie,
I have to ask you a question, and this is
gonna date me a little bit because I was trying
to remember all about this information. But did you ever

(00:25):
watch when PBS or in Georgia's GBS, uh, when they
would do the little telethons to raise money for their network, um,
and then they would have special uh viewings of things.
Did you watch any of those? Do you know what
I'm talking about? I know what you're talking about. I
don't believe I ever watched that. I watched shows on PBS,

(00:49):
but I don't think I watched what you're specifically saying,
which is like a kind of special to raise money,
right right right. So what they would do is you
would watch a series so lay Miss happened to be
one that I loved, and they would do a whole
viewing of an entire of the entire uh. I guess
it was more of us singing. It wasn't the actual play.

(01:11):
They would just come up on stage and singing and
it was beautiful, and then they would interrupt it every
thirty minutes with a thirty minutes segment of them UM
trying to raise money and then tell you you can
buy this VHST for a pledge. So if you were
to pledge five hundred dollars or a hundred dollars of
a month, they would send you this or with a
tote and all these things. I never got this. I

(01:33):
was very sad UM. But I have distinct memories in
watching these and being very excited, except not excited about
the telethon part, being very excited that they would show
something that I loved. And I will tell you one
of the things that I loved is what we're gonna
be talking about today. And I'm just so excited. Which
is the CBC or the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation version of

(01:59):
and the Gables UH. And this is how I first
watched it was on a PBS UH telethon and I'm like,
oh my god, this is exciting. And it happens once
a year, and it happened in my teenage years early
years to the US UM. And you know, growing up
in a very small town, we only have three channels
available literally channel to, channel five and channel eight, so

(02:21):
we had ABC, CBS, and PBS didn't have NBC that
was too fancy for us, Just so you know that's
what we had. Um. And yes, my favorite time of
the year would be the telethon which they would put
on these shows, which is like a two day stretch
of the nineteen five classic, because they would continue on

(02:42):
and hopefully we will also continue on with the sequels
that Kevin Sullivan, the writer director of this series, would do,
which apparently went way off book after the first one
from what I understand, UM, which I would try to
record ord on VHS, trying to get it perfectly timed

(03:04):
without any of the actual Teleson's, trying to make it
just one and I failed every time. I failed every time.
You'll one time, um, and I would eat a bowl
of whatever claim chowder that I could find, because I
had never had claim chowder before. So I would get
the progressio or Campbell's version of it, uh in like
heat induced weather and pretend like I was actually up

(03:28):
north during the winter watching this movie because I so
desperately wanted to be on Prince Edward Island. I have
these distinct memories. Yeah. Again, a reminder, Georgia rarely gets
below forty and it's only for a very short season
of time. So I have a very fond memories in
growing up in loving this movie, and I will watch

(03:51):
it to this day. I have the DVDs. I've lost
those DVDs I need to find. I know, I know
I've got a few. I think I was careless and
scratched them up very expensive though. Um so as a
fun birthday treat to me, because this is now my
birthday month, That's what I'm saying. I've decided that classics

(04:13):
will be a theme for us throughout this month. Annie,
are you ready for it? I'm excited. I'm so excited.
Of course, this means there may be a two parter
for this because to me, and green Gables and of
avently were hand in hand, which apparently was renamed and
gen Gables the sequel. I didn't notice till later, Like

(04:35):
I was like, okay, um, but yes, I'm very excited
to go down this memory lane with you. I hope
you're excited. I am excited. So I The only experience
I have with a Green Gables is our local theater.
I also grew up in a small town, but we
had six channels, That's right, we did, but we had

(05:00):
a small theater. I could only show one movie at once,
and I'm not kidding. At least three times I was
there it like Caught on Fire the projector did so
that kind of theater. But one time it did a
play of and of Green Gables, and it was when
I was like super into. I thought I could be
like a star, so I would audition for it. I
auditioned for Diana because they wanted somebody with red hair

(05:24):
for Ann and my friend Katie, who's been on the
show and specifically came on the episode we did about
red hair for women. She at that point was already
it's funny. It was funny for me watching this for
the first time last night. I was like, that sounds like, Heyie,
but she doesn't like her red hair being reference, so

(05:46):
she wouldn't. She wouldn't audition. However, a lot of my
friends that I grew up with loved and Green Gables,
and Marissa, who has also been on this show, has
done the like Prince Edward Island and too. I'm hoping
she'll share pictures with us because they're super cute, Like
you can put on like that hat and it has
the breeds in it, you know. I'm not sure if

(06:08):
I can do all that, being very very Asian, but
I would want to go see the tours. Yeah. Oh,
she had a It sounds like a delightful time in
the pictures are and she's so happy that it makes
me very very happy. Oh yeah, so I'm excited. Yeah right,
So I actually I have a friend who lives on
Prince Edward Island right now, and we've talked about I
may have to come see you ly. Um. Oh, but

(06:30):
in this love and so people are very aware. Because
I know I'm a bit of a snob about this.
I have never read the books. I've never actually read
the books, and so therefore I cannot tell you what
is right and wrong with these When it comes to
the film versions, and you know, there's been a lot
of silent film. It was actually an animated series in
Japan before it was a movie here. Um, there have

(06:52):
been many a renditions, including the Newest One, Newest and
I say a New World, I guess one and with
an E on Netflix. I have yet to try it
because I'm a little bit of a purist in that
I saw this one first and I cannot change my
perspective on this, and I'm worried that it's going to
change it. And I do understand that the creator was
from Breaking Bad and so she explores the dark side

(07:13):
of and with an e based sense, because there's nothing
about this orphaned girl who should be happy Dory like
Hunky Dorry happy in real life, like I said that
about Harry Potter too, So um, I will put that
cavity in. And yes we are talking exclusively about the movie.
So please don't be mad, Pa, don't be mad. And

(07:34):
I also understand there is a bit of a controversy
with Kevin Sullivan's take. There was a back and forth
about ownership, copyright um rights to the book, royalties between
some of the family and the people who own the
rights to versus Kevin Sullivan. It was a huge thing.
It went to court in Japan, it with the Courton Canada,
like there's there's a whole thing um and I'm not

(07:57):
we're not going to get into that too much at all,
but I am very aware and I want you all
to know I'm aware, and it does make me feel
kind of slimy and that Kevin Sullivan was not completely
respectful of the family's wishes. But because there was a
lot of money to be had obviously, So we are

(08:27):
talking about the Sullivan Entertainment version of the Night five
mini series and of Green Gables. Are you ready, Annie, Yes,
I am ready. And also I'm very excited for listeners
to write in about like is it this version? What
the book? I want to know all your favorite are

(08:47):
your opinions? And then she and by the way, Lucy
maud Montgomery who wrote this series in Night started with
a Green Gables and then started many of follow ups
to that and was us hugely celebrated and loved. Um,
so I will never uh dispute anyone on that love.
I get it, I get it. UM feel that same

(09:09):
way about Little Women sometimes in a lot about Jane
Austen films, which we will talk about later. Um, but yes,
uh so. It was originally released as a two part
series in December of nineteen eighty five in Canada, later
released on PBS in February nine, eight six, which is
when I'm in to the U s by the way,
well July EIGHTI six, I guess um and in the

(09:30):
UK in nineteen eighties seven, so it had a pretty
big hit there. Um. The series was awarded many Jim
and I Awards, many of the stars in the movie
got awards as well as UM the writers and the
directors and the costumes as well as they won an
Emmy Award for Outstaying the Children's Series, Peabody Award, and
many many more. UM And I just discovered that is

(09:51):
only available on Sullivan Entertainments own streaming service called Gazebo TV.
I did not know this till last night because it
used to be able to be rentable on Amazon. No longer.
I will tell you this. It is a free streaming service. However,
to watch Anna green Gables, the classics like this one

(10:12):
that we're talking about specifically, you do have to buy
or rent it. Um, that's the whole thing. Like I said,
they have anniversary series and it's very expensive from what
I gather, But yes, and if you're interested in what
kind of shows they stream, it is very early nineteen
hundreds wholesome series. From what I can gather, it seems

(10:33):
like it may be the hallmark of Canada type if
you like Way Back wind Tills I see. Okay, alright, alright,
are you ready for the plot? And I try to
I'm going to try to condense this, but I wrote,
I'm like I'm so excited. I'm so excited about every partner. Okay,
So we're introduced to and Shirley, who was played by

(10:56):
Megan Follows, who I've seen it in other things and
it would just drag me a because on my bets
and why is she that's worth? What's on that's We
are introduced to Anne Shirley, an imaginative and talkative orphan
who is currently living at the home of the Hammonds,
who took her in to help with the house and children,
and is treated pretty cruelly by both Mr and Mrs Hammond.

(11:19):
But Mr Hammond dies of a heart attack and and
is soon seen as an inconvenience and is dropped back
off at an orphanage. After six months of being at
this said orphanage, we get introduced to Anne's friend or
mirror friend, Katie spelled with a k um, and she's
given the opportunity to go and live with the Cuthbert's
on Prince Edward Island, which has a lot of tourist

(11:43):
value at this point in time. I think it's just
gorgeous anyway, but yeah, they did a lot for tourism
on that one. Um. The Cuthberts are played by Colleen
do Hurst who plays Marilla, and Richard Farnsworth who plays Matthew.
The best Matthew that ever existed. I just want that
to be said. Uh. Soon after arriving, she bonds very
quickly with Matthew because he is quiet and likes to

(12:04):
be entertained and loves the fact that she just talks
and talks and talks, and it's so imaginative and out there. Um.
And by the way, he lives with his sister on
Green Gables, which is a beautiful piece of farmland. She
learns that they had intended on adopting a boy to
help around the farm, and not a girl, very very

(12:24):
very sad and says, this is a tragical which I love. Um.
And she's told that they would have to send her back.
The next day, she and Marilla had back to the
orphanage to correct the mistake. When Marilla, after being met
with her seemingly enemy, has a change of heart and
brings her back on a quote trial basis, and the
heartwarming adventures truly begin. Um and soon learns to pray,

(12:49):
which is a whole scene in itself, just to apologize
with flair, and makes friends upon friends upon friends, she
meets her bosom buddy, a kindred space it Diana Barry,
who is in neighbor in a schoolmate with Raven hair Um.
And then she also meets her nemesis and true love,
Gilbert whom we all love, who is played by Jonathan Crombie,

(13:12):
the best Gilbert there is, I'm so sorry. She excels
in her studies and it's often in stiff competition with
Gilbert her first place in all the school courses about.
Of course, his gravest sin against her is calling her
carrots on her first day of school and being very
sensitive to her red hair. She breaks a slate over
his head uh and apologetically and never talks over again,

(13:34):
well for a while anyway. And of course, since she
is a poor orphan who has never been a part
of a real home life, makes many mistakes along the way,
including getting her best friend drunk off of current wine,
which was a huge debate during the nineteen hundreds, as
you know, alcohol not really uh kind of frown upon,
you know what I'm saying. Because she also confused it

(13:55):
for raspberry cordial because she's never had either, and she's
a banned from ever see Diane again. Because she has
become known as the Troublemaker, a manipulator because she's obviously
an orphan who manipulates and lies. Throughout the series, we
witness and thriving with her new family and her town,
her studies, and her hard work, eventually later to being
in the top of her class, being placed in a

(14:16):
special class to study forward her interest exams to Queen's
Academy in Charlottetown, led by her very supportive and other
kindred spirit uh teacher, Miss Muriel Stacy, who uh she
almost fed tainted dessert after forgetting to cover the sauce,
resulting in mouse drowning in it, also grazing. She was

(14:37):
able to save the day when she helps save Diana's
sister Minnie May, who was sick with the group and
was forgiven it even invited to the Christmas ball yay.
Marilla relented after Matthew was able to talk her into it,
allowing her to go to the ball, but first he
bought her her very own gown with puffed sleeves, very
beautiful scene. She soon meets Diana's spinster aunt, very rich

(15:00):
aunt Josephine Bay and of course the winds are over
with her personality and charm and is invited along with
Diana to her home for the exam in Charlottetown. There,
she and Diana get to experience the wonders of the
city life. Yes arriving back to avonlea summer summer continues,
and so do Anne and Diana's adventures. The young ladies
decided to take on one of the scenes of Alfred

(15:22):
Tennyson's The Lady of Shelot, which she mentions throughout the movie,
which Anne plays the lily maid while floating in a
dinghy that springs a leak and get stuck in the
middle of the waters, but along comes Gilbert to save
the day and the forgiveness he has been seeking for
so long from the ill fated Carrots Day, and she
also finds out that she and Gilbert have tied for

(15:43):
first place on the exams, and she becomes the toast
of the town. She soon performs at the Hospital of Fundraiser,
getting a standing ovation and had an awkward misunderstanding with Gilbert,
but then they soon leave for college and there was
again she excels at her studies, getting the highest or
the Avery Scholarship, beating Gilbert who is second place with Gold,

(16:05):
but soon returns home and after she does the tragic death,
I can never watch it. I cry. Matthew An decides
to stay home with Marilla and start teaching in the
nearby town. Gilbert, who was already accepted the teaching position
in Avonlea, switches to the two positions so Anne can
beat in Avonlea while he travels, and end with a

(16:27):
lovely scene on the bridge with Anne and Gilbert with
things yet to come seen I've never seen. I've never
seen the next one, so I was like, it's over. No,
it just stops there. Though, Yes, I adore this movie
and everything about it brings me so much comfort. You

(16:50):
would think would not because I'm watching it now and
I'm like all of the implications about how evil and
bad orphans are and essentially like they're just there for servitude.
It could have been triggering, but I think I love
the fact that she had such a winning personality and
I wanted to be her. Um that she just excelled
at everything and disproved everything that people were saying about her,

(17:13):
and I wanted to be her. Also. I wanted to
live in Prince Edward Island and as much as I
love her relationship with Gilbert, I loved her relationship with
her family and her best friend. Like that to me
said everything I wanted growing up, the best friend that
I never had, and when I found one, I latched
onto him very quickly, as you know. But I felt

(17:34):
like it just was so heartwarming and it felt so
good to watch that. I had those memories that spring
in my head and I adore it, um, And I
want to know, what did you think about the movie?
I really enjoyed it. I wasn't sure what to expect. Um.
I'll admit when I saw the three hour runtime, I
was like, oh boy, okay, but I didn't think about

(17:56):
that at all. No, No, it's all good. Um. I
I was beautiful, And I would say hats off to
all the actors in it because they really sold it
and it was very charming and won me over very quickly,
and it was it was kind of like a nice,
wholesome like they were definitely mishaps, a lot of mishapps,

(18:20):
but the way it did it, it wasn't like I
feel like usually in a movie structure, there's like the
one terrible thing that happens and then what happened, but
you kind of were like there was something about the
timing and pacing of it. I guess that I really enjoyed. It.
Was like, oh, here's this thing, here's this beat, here's
this beat, but with the general understanding like there's gonna
be sad stuff, but it's kind of gonna work out.

(18:42):
There's definitely some sad things. But and yeah, it was
just beautiful and I did love I loved all of
the and dramatic nous. I thought was very funny, her
quoting and her very like tragical as you said, like
things like that. Um No, I really really enjoyed it,
and I was sad when it was done. I was like, oh, no,

(19:04):
I can tell there's so much more, and there is
any there is, but you know, there's a lot of this.
When I was looking up all the articles, of course,
there was a lot of comparison to the new series
to the old and what was happening. Is it better?
Is it not better? I do understand. I think, like
I said, and with an E was on the darker

(19:27):
side exploring apparently she does have PTSD and that's that scene.
I know. The book I think was a little more
dark than the actual nine eight five series. From what
I gathered trigger warning y'all for child abuse, that he
dies Mr Hammond at the beginning dies while he was
whipping her. So in the movie he dies while he's

(19:47):
yelling at his employees, So it wasn't really noted to
that level. So yeah, I mean that's pretty horrendous um
in itself. And again, like I said, about any of
these movies, and like The Savior Child or The Good
Child or whatever, they may be okay, but they would
have had to have a lot of therapy because there's

(20:08):
a lot of trauma there um that we would need
to look at. But they kind of glazes over that,
which I think maybe part of the appeal for me
as well, my man, I wish I would have had
none of the baggage, just this happiness and hope. But yes,
there's a lot of articles out there about why I
touched so many people. There's even an article and we're
gonna talk about a little more about the feminism of

(20:29):
and the Green Gables more of the novel, but we
kind of can extrapolate and put that into the film
because it had that same intention because even though the
romances there, it's really not a big plot. It's a
side plot, and I love that me too. It was
certainly like I, as you said, the relationship with the
family and her friend Diana were the hearts of it

(20:54):
to me, and I really enjoyed that as well, that
it was sort of like maybe this room, the saying
will happen, maybe it won't, but this is the important
I want my bosom friend and I want to find
my friends like I love it. I love it. Yeah,
So let's go ahead and talk about the themes of
this movie. And again, it's such a long movie. There's
so many things that we can pull apart and pull out,
but we do want to focus on specific things that

(21:16):
uh meant a lot to us. And I think it's
important to talk about which women as their own heroines,
which I really really loved this bit. And I'm going
to read from that study I was telling you about,
which talks about the feminism of Anne green Gables, because
I think it's really interesting that they talked about how
this was not antonen Gables, It's not considered feminists by

(21:38):
most part. No one really say that. They just think
that it's a classic and you move on. Um, but
when you could look at again the look at the
heroines and the independence in here that we see, and
we'n talk a little more about that, that these women
kind of work for themselves. And I think about that
with Miss Stacy. I think about that, which we'll get
to revisit her next season, the next one along uh

(22:00):
I think about her in that way. Even Rachel Lynn,
who is the busybody, but she is kind of the
heroine of her own household. That makes sense, the leader
of that Marilla making her own pathways like and having
a successful life even if it doesn't seem fulfilled. As
well as uh ms ms Barry the spinster, who was

(22:21):
fine and happy on her own. Yeah. Yeah, there were
plenty of examples of women who were unmarried not really
portrayed a romantic light, like miss Barry the spinster who
and kind of made friends with says, you know, sometimes
I wish things have been different because she had been

(22:43):
so focused on money or whatever. So it's not like
it was painted as this is so much better. But
it was interesting to see so many portrayals of women
without men, or even if they had a man wasn't
really the focus or in the picture, and it wasn't
like it seemed kind of but it could have gone there,

(23:04):
but they don't. Um, but yeah, one of the things
that we talked about about, like, yeah, I would see
like her being her own hero, kind of making her
own pathway, being a forward feminist thinking in and in
this text they talked about they actually quote say, for
a long time, it's so called girls stories like this one,

(23:25):
we're not recognized as literary texts and ignored by most
literary scholars. Whereas children's literature in general was a subject
to scholarly studies, girls stories were often overlooked by critics,
most of whom were male. And I think that's really
true because as much as we go back and forth
about the old tilt, we talked about higgets romantic size

(23:46):
and then pushed to the side as romance, so therefore
is not literary. Of course, we still call it classes
today it would come a long way, but at that
point in time, it really wasn't. And here's a children's
story that talks about up and coming child wild who
focuses on herself for the first book. From what I understand,
but in this first movie not being really seen as

(24:07):
serious and or a model for other girls, which I
find interesting because that's not true. Like what if we
look at the character of Anna green Gables, it spawned
a big fan hood, Like it may not be to
the level that we see with Harry Potter or Twilight
today because we don't swim over characters and or maybe

(24:27):
that's not a magical world, but there was a die
hard fandom. I was a part of it of Anna
green Gables, and I love that we have for this
and seeing these women are seeing these characters as heroes.

(24:53):
One of the things that stood out to me, and
we've talked about this recently. Ums, I kept waiting for
the other shooter drop with like Anne was so good
at her studies, she was so smart, So I kept
waiting for Diana to be like, I can't be your
friend anymore other than the cordial incident, but like her personally. Um,

(25:15):
and you did have that one character what was her name, Josephine?
There was the one character, yes, but otherwise like, yeah,
you got the teacher who's a woman who's supportive of
and and like, no, you're so smart, we can make
this happen. You've got miss Barry and you've got Diana.
And I liked that they were all like, no, you're
so we want to see how far you can go,

(25:36):
like we're gonna support you. And there was also the
scene with Diana where she was like, no, I like
Gilbert too, and I was like, oh, here it comes.
But it was much more like, no, it's okay, like
if you're interested. I didn't know if you were interested.
I liked it. I appreciated it. Yeah, there's a love
there in the bond. But that's the other part, is
like being honest and communicating together. That's yeah. Also, she

(26:01):
saved someone's life. She saved many because she had been
through so many trials and knew how to take care
of children. She was able to save this child's life.
And it's a gorgeous, gorgeous look at what she can
do um as someone who has always had to fend
for herself. I also had an issue, and I do
want to come back and say, how did that kid
cry like that? Like I don't think that is a

(26:22):
good an actor like that? Did they do something to
make her cry like that? I've always thought that, I
know slide in the back of my head. I'm like,
I hope that kid's okay. But then we move on
to of course, the obvious at the very beginning is
the orphaned person, because that's a big thing when it
comes to stories like this, feel good stories, whatever whatnot. Um,

(26:43):
this one has a little more heavy leaning and understanding
that they were seen as property and or brought into
uh to be a servant in the home or a
caretaker in the home to lighten the load, not necessarily
to care for UM. And I don't think that attitude
was a common in the early nine eight hundreds. That

(27:03):
was a thing, and unfortunately children were used and abused
and all that. Of course we don't get into that
too much, just just the implication of that. So of
course we are so excited to see her grow out
of that, but we do see that conversation happening, especially
during the Industrial Revolution when we talk about all of
that as well. But then for a specifically, as you mentioned,

(27:25):
the red head stigma of the early nighte it was everywhere,
and again because I have my friend Katie and because
she experienced this so much, every time, I was like,
oh there, yeah, there, it is all there it is,
and it kind of it did make me sad because
it was clear she didn't turnalize it. Yeah, it was

(27:47):
just desperate for She tried to dye her hair and
it went horribly awry. It was so cute when she
cut it. I was like, oh yeah, yeah, so she
died it. She tried to die it black, right, and
then it went green, went green, so she had to
cut it and it was super cute and she cut it.

(28:08):
But I know, like when you're I don't want to
diminish anything at all, because like when you're a kid,
those kinds of things are huge. That's so big and
so can hurt so bad and so embarrassing, and even
as an adult, but I just know, I think as
adults we tend to dismiss that kind of stuff, but

(28:28):
it is huge, it is we shouldn't dismiss it. But yeah,
for her to have that kind of constant and that's
what my friend had said, like it's the first thing
people say when they meet her all the time. It's
like about your hair. And clearly for Ann it had
been stigmatized. It was something she didn't like about herself.
It felt like it made her ugly. And so when

(28:50):
it was like constantly brought up, Uh, you just got
to see this very angry side of Anne. But also
the insecure side, the insecurity of having it constantly brought up.
I mean she has a temper, She does not hold back.
We know this. She defends herself and I appreciate that. Yeah,

(29:11):
oh yeah, I mean she and she's got away with words.
So as you said, like we get to see it's
kind of fun to get her to like really give
like Rachel Lynn for instance, like really cutter down this size. Yes,
but then to see her kind of do her like
apology that she I won't say it's like fake, but

(29:31):
she's doing it as an act because she loves like
the dramatics of language and putting words together. Like to
see that kind of dichotomy and Rachel Lynn being totally
like buying it is very fun. It is uh. And
then of course with the orphan girl is the idea
that she's wild and untamable, which kind of isn't implied

(29:52):
by Rachel Lynn at the very beginning talking about she's
just wild and oh my gosh, that's so rude and
I'm so uncivilized. We see that, and that's kind of
that thing is kind of what we see. That's always
a part of her which wants to run free, the
just independence that has always been her. As much as
she wants to belong, she also wants to be free.

(30:13):
Is that conversation, which we find out more into the sequel.
I'm just saying another part of this, and I don't know.
I think you and I have talked about how growing
up we would make we would make believe specific errors.
For me, I loved nineteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. For me,
I would imagine what it would be like to write
by candlelight, which sounds horrible because I can't see today,

(30:34):
so I don't think that's great. But as a kid
like I had those long dresses and sitting by the
fire and not having electricity, what that would be like?
Which was this? So between this and Little Women, I
was really caught up. But I love that this is
a part of Anne's world where she has so much imagination,
which she talks about as a strength and it is,

(30:55):
and where everybody else tried to take that away from her,
telling her to get her heads out of the cloud.
Its unrealistic expectations, but she lives in and loves it,
thrives in it, and it's been something that has been
able to carry her on through all the bad parts
even when people are mean, and she honestly talks about
the fact that when Rachel Lynne doesn't have any imagination

(31:15):
and she doesn't can't understand why these bad things may
happen or these things that happened, but she does, and
so she's there, she's able to have compassion on people.
You know, That's what she kind of implies. We see
her talking about how rich people don't have much imaginations
because they don't have to dream it up, because they
have it in the illusion. Like I love that theme

(31:36):
so much, and growing up in my own trauma and
I know you know this, that's what we did. We
had to have imagination to survive the next day. Yeah,
And I really loved that too, because I love how
I feel like the imagination we see depicted in children.
A lot in movies, we do see kind of the

(31:57):
like trauma, I'm imagining my way out, definitely, But a
lot of times I liked how Anne had this kind
of like you don't even have the imagination to imagine
the bad part of this. She was kind of looking
at both. She was like, I can imagine much better,
I can imagine much worse, and you can't imagine either.
You have no writing. Yeah, so I really appreciated, right.

(32:19):
And she created a friend, Katherine with a k because
she needed someone. And she talks about wanting to be
in that world, wanted to be in the mirror world,
and how beautiful that would be. And this is what
she did to survive, especially six months of being uh
in an orphanage which would never hear her talk about
again after beating Diana, which is gorgeous and beautiful. I

(32:42):
love it, um. And of course another big part of
this is family finding, family finding belonging, with both Marilla
and Matthew having two sides of the same coin, one
really tough but still loving, one really kind hearted but quiet.
Like just having that in our life it is sgic
wargeous picture. I just really like the fact that there

(33:03):
is an unconventional family who found balance. Yeah. I liked
that too, because if at first, and I blame heteronormative material,
I assumed that they were together like Matthew and Marilla, um,
and then I found out Marilla's got this kind of
tragic like love story in her past and brother and sister.

(33:25):
I like how Matthew was pretty immediately like no, I think,
and it would be good for us, it seems to
kind of know Marilla will arrive at the same the
same understanding. But it was cool, it was it was Yeah,
it was just a really good like foil for each
other because Matthew was so quiet, but he was much
more like openly entertained, whereas Marilla was more outspoken, kind

(33:49):
of like hiding her affection and her entertainment and and
of course it's just like open everything. Um, so those
in connected. Yeah, it was. It was a lovely thing
to see, um and it was very I liked seeing

(34:11):
all of them interact with each other and kind of
grow with each other. And I love the like eventual fondness,
like with Matthew was always there, but eventually it kind
of became more, oh, I'll get her this dress, even
I'm so embarrassed and I don't know what to do
because Anne really wants it. And with marill ity became
much more like from how do you get in all

(34:33):
these troubles child? To how do you get like a
fond like how did you would say? Door? Fun facts?
Now this is I cannot remember where I found this
or if I watched this doing one of the behind
the scene things, but apparently the act was Colleen Dhurst
was someone vulgar and would kind of like make jokes
and and like and laugh and like all these things

(34:55):
behind the scene and because really loved her, which I
believe even Megan follows with sixteen, so she was pretty young.
She was playing eleven twelve year old, so older, but
not the significant that we've seen. By the next sequel,
she plays an eighteen nineteen year old, so she kind
of fits into that. She even looks older than though
I don't even know how um she fits that ah

(35:16):
h range at that point in time, but apparently, like
that's what I had read. No, don't quote me on that,
but I'm pretty sure I read that she was kind
of one of those people because she was a famous
stage actress, and she was a famous actress at that point,
already calling Dewhurst um. And then for Farnsworth, who played Matthew,
he was actually a stuntman and this was one of

(35:37):
his first acting gigs and eventually he did to win awards,
but still best Matthew. I still hold to that, so
good um. And then yes, we couldn't not talking about
the friendships, the friendship she had been aching for because
she had been so alone and she just knew it
existed and it was out there and it was She

(35:59):
built so many good bonds, but Diana her bosom, kindred spirit.
I love the relationship so so much, and poor Diane,
I felt like she was like, what is happening? And
who is this girl? Yeah? I love it too because
it reminded me of when I was nine years old.
I lived in a small town. Our houses at that

(36:23):
time were pretty spread apart in the area I've lived in.
And my friend Katie the Redheaded I've been talking about
she when I was nine, she moved into a house
that was near me, and I swear like I was like,
what is her phone number? I need to call her.
We're going to hang out, We're going to be best friends.
Like so this scene where Anne was like, we're going
to be best friends and Diana is kind of like

(36:45):
what I feel like I did that. I feel like
I lived that and we're still best friends. Um, and
I love it, And I think like we get so
many depictions of poor friendships between women in media, but
it's clear, like this longing is real for that like
your kindred spirit, your soul mate, who is a friend.

(37:06):
Friendships between women. Um, and I loved it. Like I said,
I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, and
it really didn't. They were solid friendship, they were bosom friends.
They're amazing. My favorite saying is the walking in the
forest after she falls off the roof scene. Yeah, the

(37:28):
way that she scares herself, it is so fantastic. I
feel like, I don't know about you. I'm sure you
have many stories. But I had a friend of mine.
We would do silly things like that that would cause
us to get into trouble or make some make belief
thing and I loved it. And I missed those days
a little bit, not not enough to actually call them,
but you know stuff like that that is like wow, imagination,

(37:52):
the things that bond you do. Oh yeah, I mean
me and my friend Katie would go on the woods
and we would literally like take turns, tell each other
about the sand creature under the leaves and it's coming
and I can't hear you like it was so fun.
It was such like glorious. We spent a whole afternoon
just doing that and there was nothing there. It was right,
there was nothing. It was just your imagination, which we love.

(38:15):
But also I love her usage of kindred spirit, Like
I love those terms so much. I think that would
be the vibe check now, because if I passed the check.
But I'm just kidding. But like the kindred spirits, the
idea that you can connect with a person and though
that you may not be able to see it the
way or you connect, they are the one who is
on the same level as you and in spirit with you.

(38:36):
And that's I just love that, so I do too,
and I again like I also love None of that
was in the romantic context. All of that was just
the no, we are yeah, we are on the same level,
we are connecting, and it was all women from my memory. Yeah, No,

(38:58):
Matthew was a kindred spirit. Oh Matthew mm hmm. Yeah.
But there's nothing romantic, definitely, like it's a connection and
understanding that you you get get my ways. Yes, the
level of the small town, the conversations, you know, the
first scene, like the third fourth scene at the beginning,

(39:18):
we see Rachel Lynn watching Matthew in his suit traveling
not on a Sunday with a pipe. Oh my god,
what's happening? Mm hmmmm. And then that's kind of the
kerfuffle at the end with Gilbert and Anne is that
he offered her to her ride. She accepted it. Then
he offered her like, I'll take you to this concert

(39:38):
she was going to perform at. She accepted it, and
then it was like the talk of the town and
she was like, oh no, never mind, I won't go
with him, Diana, give him this note. I'm not going. Yeah,
but that's I mean, I know it kind of like
you know Bingo cards, Sinti Bingo card would be me
and Samantha from a small town. But it is like

(40:00):
these things are true and real and they influence your decisions.
I remember my mother saying, so I heard you were
driving a little too fast in town. We need to
talk about what it's like the tiniest like I heard
you get the milkshake at Windy's or whatever. You shouldn't

(40:21):
be doing that, And it's like who saw me? How
told on me? Who's not right? But I do love that.
And then we have the independent woman old maid the
slashes Quora, how you look get it? And we talked
about it before about all those strong, really independent women
who still has a lingering of guilt. So we're gonna
talk about the fact that this is like the feminism

(40:42):
probably of the like Montgomery, we did want to establish
probably these characters I could be wrong in being alone,
but they could not be completely happy, because at that
point in time, you really a single woman should not
be correct right right. It was definitely as I said, Um,
the older Mrs Ms Barry Um said, like, you know,

(41:04):
I got the money, but sometimes that's not sometimes I missed.
I think I missed out, or that's not everything. And
I felt like the implication was maybe you should look
at Gilbert and maybe I'm wrong, and that that's a
fine like opinion to have. But then there was also
throughout kind of this understanding of if you pursue your
independence as a woman, you won't get the man. So

(41:26):
even like there were plenty of independent women throughout, which
I loved, but the implication also was like they're independent,
so they couldn't get the man. And then also throughout
there was this kind of like with Anne, I'd rather
be beautiful than smart, Like you can't be both. You
have to be beautiful or smart. So I feel like

(41:48):
this is kind of the early understanding of a woman
can't have it all, she has to either be kind
of that the homemaker beautiful to get the man, or
the independ smart woman who will never get the man.
And this is all very heteronormative, and I don't I
don't believe this, but this is right. But this is
the hundreds. And when we talk about and we will

(42:10):
talk about Jane Austen, that was that similar phase as well.
But we know that Jane Austen's history was a little dark,
uh in her own life because of that very conversation
about uh, not necessarily that you can't have it all,
but more so that women are not going to survive
without a man and if you try to do that,
you're going to fail. So it's it's so therefore trying

(42:31):
to be that way with the most independence that you
can have, which is what she's trying to do. You
see this in the same way, Miss Stacey is a
prime example of coming in her loving her life, or
a looking up to her and seeing her as a
role model, and then Miss Stacy saying, I have my
own troubles. We don't know what those troubles are, but

(42:51):
she's gone and we know that it pretty much ran
her out of Avonlea for what reason we don't know,
but she was one of the best teachers for what
we can tell that was there. Um. I mean the
dude before was literally courting one of the women, one
of the kids, and although it was frowned upon eventually,

(43:17):
but it was like wow, okay um and he did
not like Anne, but he knew she was smart. Like
all of those things, like we know that that's what happened.
We know that there's an implication here. Marilla says, the
same people people talk about her behind her back for
losing lob essentially not as much just on Matthew, even
though he is alone, but you know whatever, um on.

(43:40):
On top of that, I do love the scene where
miss Stacy comes and talks to them about the dead
mouth scene about her doing the extra classes, and Marilla says,
I've always thought that a young woman should have should
be prepared to make their own living, just in case
in these uncertain times, which I'm like, that's nineteen hundreds.

(44:01):
Go ahead, and Marolla, you are really progressive. But yeah,
you're right. That was a conversation too. Through out of
like there was a lot of that small town like
talking behind people's backs, and for Marilla to be alone
and to have like lost this love clearly people were

(44:22):
kind of talking about it and sort of raising their eyebrow. Okay,
like I'm becoming you are now I can't I can't
stop it. And you know, also, I love that they
actually do focus on Anne's academics on all of that,
like they do push her to become more and they
are celebrating her for being so smart. There's no conversation

(44:45):
about you're not gonna give man if you're too smart.
Well kind of of course, Rachel has one word to say,
but then Marilla cuts her off very quickly. But outside
of that, people celebrate this. People are pushing hard to
be this. This is competition is yours, and people are celebrating,
including Gilbert, including Gilbert, including Gilbert. And I mean again,

(45:08):
when I was like, oh this is from early Ninetreds,
I was like, oh wow, because at that time, I'm
that was pretty uncommon to see her to year and
there was certainly like a layer of like it was
very minimal, actually, but there was a layer of like, wow,
look what she can do is like an orphan and
a woman. But mostly it was just like, yeah, you

(45:30):
get it. Yeah, I'm talking about how she's doing. Avonulee
proud and she is go ahead. Um, but I love that.
I think that's It's like, it is so progressive for
a time being. Again, if this is different in the books,
please let us know, because I do want to know.
I don't think it's too far for it far string

(45:51):
for this one. But I love that whole avenue that
she loves studying, she loves being on top, and she's
going to be on top. Oh yeah, which leads into like,
this is the feminism in nineteen hundred's right. So the
conversation in this paper that I am talking about, uh,
talks about the fact that yes, she celebrates her being

(46:13):
independent and a little bit wild and doing her own
thing and being imaginative, but eventually still comes to as
as she grows accustomed to society and cultural norms, she
does settle into I just I'm just going to be
a teacher, staying at home and settling down and spoiler alert.
In the books, Mary's Gilbert and has children and that's

(46:35):
her story. That's that does not sound into the story,
But she does end up these ways which she was
so fearful of of, partially in in other ways. So
it's really interesting to see. But it's kind of how
we'll talk about and how I see it with Jane Austen.
For what it was, it's revolutionary, but for today Sanders

(46:56):
is not so great in itself. But they also talk
about the idea of eco feminism and a being Gables,

(47:16):
giving up the connection to nature and becoming a proper lady.
So the idea as you let go of the natural
wild person, the untainted from civilized society quote unquote, to
become a part of the norm, to be a proper lady.
And so they kind of have this whole breakdown, Uh
it's a Swedish paper by the way about it, and

(47:39):
they break down the orphan any of the young any
to adult Annie and how it has changed her. Um
the idea that's combining feminist aspects and ecocritical aspects that
in order to argue that as wilderness a quote as
wildness and her fearless freedom for society's pressing judgments are
highly connected to her own connection to nature. So it

(48:00):
has this whole level of of her and and like
when you see her come into Avon Lee, she's like,
oh my God, like she is actually awestruck for a
second about the beauties of it and when we talk
about her going into the city life, quote unquote, she
talks about how she misses and longs for the sounds
and the quietness of Avon Lee. But the fact, like

(48:22):
the comparing her when she was not a part of
society and when she was not a proper lady and
she was just a wild orphan versus what happens to
her when she does become that Does her feminism change
a little bit? Has that taken that away from her
and this big like part of who she is in society?
Has she came to herself it kind of stepped away

(48:43):
from her feminism to become a part of the patriarch,
which is the discidal norm of that time and today
even And I found that very interesting in this conversation
because again when we talk about the academics of and
in her her pursuits and again you'll see and in

(49:04):
the sequel, of course, this is talking about the books,
but in the sequel of the movie, Yeah, it kind
of explores that longing to be independent and to travel
and to be adventurous. But then coming back to but
what am I missing? Yeah, I think that that is

(49:24):
the question Smith. I think that is a question that
is huge for a lot of of women that we've
talked about before, because like they are just certain structural,
systemic things that are hard to escape. And I think
that it's, you know, if you want to you find somebody,

(49:51):
you love them in this head or nord of sense,
a man and a woman, you love them, you get married.
We can't deny that there are still structural thing things
in favor of the man and the relationship and the woman.
So it's like it's hard to escape. I guess that's
what I'm saying. And so when you talk about like
the city life, it almost feels like you're talking about, oh,

(50:14):
how do I fit into these structures that we have
in place? And for this in particular, there's sort of
this dichotomy of her like you know, at Green Gables
in the wild Um, being very like independent and then
her going in to the city, which she also likes,

(50:36):
since she says and she wants to experience those things,
but it requires a certain level of conformity to not
be like shunned from society, right, and absolutely I think
that's kind of her whole thing is to fit in.
But if she's going to be seeing she wants to
be seen in the best light, UM, and what does

(50:57):
that look like in this type of society? UH want
to go into one thing that this paper says. It
says another thing that appears in the novel is the
wish to fit in, um, to be normal. Regarding this,
one can also see strong connection between women and nature
and was forced to cave to society both regarding the
feminists and the eco critical aspects of her life and

(51:18):
adapt accordingly. Again, this is about the novel, but I
think it's chosen the movie and just kind of that
theme and in general about like I am my own
person and don't take my spirit from me. By the
same time, yes, I do have to acclimate and or
stand out and the best way possible, right, Yeah, exactly,
because I think she it was a very fine line

(51:40):
she was walking, because the reason she got a lot
of the attention she did was because she didn't fit in.
And so especially like I'm thinking of the older Ms.
Barry who's like, oh you make me laugh, Oh, and
I really like you. You speak your mind, and a
lot of people in this city life don't. But then
at the same time it was her having to figure out,

(52:03):
you know, you can't do these things without having to
do this kind of drawn out apology, even if the
other person was in the wrong or a bunch of
things she had to learn and had to adapt to.
That does feel a bit of like attaming. And I'm
not saying that sometimes you get angry even if it's
somebody in the wrong, you've got to apologize. But a

(52:25):
lot of it felt kind of like she was having
to learn to kind of close this part off and
fit in right. Yes, there's so much, like, there's so
much more I'm probably could go into, and if we
really wanted, I could just expand upon many ideals of her,
like even with a dress, trying to be pretty and

(52:46):
being the best of everything, trying to impress Marilla but
also show appreciation. There's so many to this. Yes, And
I don't believe I'm sorry. Maybe I'm going to have
people maybe at me, maybe the younger generation. Megan follows
is and to me and will always be, and Jonathan

(53:08):
Chrome will always be Gilbert. It's kind of have this
similar opinion about since its ability about Colin Colin Firth
being the only Darcy. I will fight you. I will
fight you. Oh my god. I want to start like
a bracket. I love this because my friend Marissa, who
I said she loves and Green Gables, she said the

(53:30):
very same thing. Yeah, she said the very same thing.
So I'm all about it. I'm all about it. I
want to come back and do I think we should
do the next one. I think so, I'm already let's
get okay, me too, me too. Well, look out for
that listeners and send in your opinions. What are you

(53:52):
ready to fight me? Come on, don't fight me. I
love it because I remember you were like, this is
my version of Star Wars I was. I'm so happy,
I'm so excited. I want to see it. I want
to see it. Well. You can send those opinions to
our email, which is Stephanie and Mom stuff at iHeart
met to dot com. You can find us on Twitter

(54:12):
at Mom's podcast or instagrammed stuff I've Never Told You.
Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina. Thank you, Christina, Yes,
and thanks to you for listening stuff I Never told
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