August 3, 2022 • 42 mins
The award-winning 2020 documentary Crip Camp: A Disability Revolution is a moving, open and personal take on the determination, difficulties and successes of a group of people growing up in the disability rights movement, what they accomplished, and the importance of inclusivity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
I never told your protection of I heart Radio, and
welcome to another edition of Feminist Movie. And then whatever
day you're listening to. I guess technically this is being
released on a Wednesday, so it's no longer a feminist
(00:26):
movie Friday. But you don't also you may not be
listening on a Wednesday. Who knows, right, it's true, we
have we have no control over this. Uh, you can
insert whatever day of the week that you're listening to it,
and that that's perfectly fine. Yes, And we talked about
this on our last movie and we wanted to come
back and make sure that we do a viewing and
(00:48):
have a conversation. But we are talking about the amazing
documentary crypt Camp Disability Revolution. But before we start, Annie,
I do need to ask did you do camps as
a kid? Did you go to like these little summer camps?
Funny you should add said, because I just had a
conversation with my friends about how there's like very jokingly
camp kids and non camp kids. Um, I did not
(01:08):
do it. I as as I have said today, the
reasons might be different. I do not sleep well around
other people. That sounded like a nightmare to me. I
did like the idea of like learning out a ty
knots or shoot bow and arrows or whatever. But I
feel like a lot of movies about camp that I
watched as a kid did not make it seem like
(01:29):
an experience I would enjoy. It sounded like there's gonna
be a lot of pranks and I was gonna be
terrified and for life. Oh no, I think it's important
to what kind of camp you go to. I will
say that I did go to a couple of church camps,
and it was very rare that I went because they
were expensive. But I also thought was one of those
(01:50):
that thought camp was kind of not useless. But just like,
why why would I do this? Um? Why would I
go away into a strange place and pay all this money?
Uh to do things like eat the food that I
don't like being in the on was getting eaten up
by bugs, like all of these things. But I really
like the ones that I was able to do things.
(02:10):
I went to a church camp that went and built
homes throughout the town's underprivileged areas. I loved that that
part of it was so much fun, and I built
a lot of friendships based on it. I did because
I went to several because after I went to one
of them, I went to several because I love the
aspect of going to build and do things all day
long and enjoy those times. Of course, the first one
(02:30):
was amazing, so I wanted to relive that one over
and over and over again. That didn't happen. But I
had some really good experiences. But I wouldn't say that
it was my cup of tea. I like camping to
a certain degree, but yeah, I would always be exhausted
when I left. But but like I said, I did
build some bonds. And I'm really excited about this documentary
(02:52):
because that's kind of where we see, uh, this type
of camp going. But yeah, so we are talking about
the Dance Award winning, Slash Oscar nominated documentary Crypt Camp
a Disability Revolution, which was released in directed by Nicole
Newnham and James le Brett, who was camper himself at
(03:12):
what we are calling it crypt Camp or crypt jan
ad Um, and it was also executive produced by the
Obama's Michelle and Baraque. It was it was and we
mentioned this not only in a recent um feminist movie Friday.
I think also in our recent book Clip, but in
our A d A or breakdown on the ad A,
we talked about coming back to discuss this movie. Um,
(03:34):
it's on Netflix streaming if you haven't seen it, want
to watch it. Not currently a sponsor, but just letting
you know. The documentary follows le Brett, Judith Human, Denise Share, Jacobson,
Nancy Rosenblum, Nancy Dangelo, Anna Kupolo Freeman, Ellie Abrashkin, Gene
Mala Frante, Steve Hoffman, Michael Tannenbaum, Al Levy, and others
(03:59):
who attended as campers at Camp jened A camphlet by
Larry Allison, who was the camp director. We also got
to meet staffers like Lionel, Joe Woodyard, Joseph O'Connor, and
people who are on site to document the film with
the People's Video Theater, like Howard gustat Um, who was
able to get footage of the times and discussion throughout
(04:19):
the camp. So that was really cool, actually right Honestly,
the first thing I thought was like, what an amazing
thing that they were able to get this on film
and have such an open, honest conversation and it was
able to get that and restore that and be able
to show that to others because it was a phenomenal
idea and you don't see that, you know. We've talked
about this many times when we think of historical figures
(04:41):
and historical events that we don't get to see or
have actual proof of what happened there. And to have
like a first person contact to see what is happening
and what has happened, it's phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah, And it
was very like a moment in time captured because I
was like, this is seventies is how I feel it.
I love seeing them in their prime and they were
(05:03):
selling themselves and exploring that, and I'm like, I wonder
how they turned out as adults. Just they still follow
with that. Yes, and we got to see some answers
to that question. Yeah. The film was fifteen years in
the making with camp Goer Labrick who has spin and
Bithada as a director and narrator throughout the documentary, and Yes,
(05:24):
it was premiered at the Sundance Festival. Camp Jeannette was
founded in ninety two and the cat Skills and was
shut down in nineteen seventy seven, and this is where
a majority of it takes place, where a lot of
like the blossoming of this activism that we see right
and I think it's postially because a Labrett who came
(05:44):
in later is the one that says the tone of
how he got to be a part of that and
seeing that as well, and then if I am correct,
I don't know what is happening with Kim Jannette right now,
but there's a lot of conversation about things with clip
camp and how that's kind of blossomed a new movement
in twenty as well, so it's good to see how
it kind of picks back up. But the documentary as
(06:06):
well we are discussing shows the impact of camp to
Neet and the campers who could escape the world and
go to their personal quote with Stock as one of
the campers say, they are the campers were able to
live as they wanted, hooking up with some of the
other campers, maybe for the first time, getting girlfriends, getting boyfriends,
having all this new romance, playing and truly competing with
each other. There was a line when they talked about
(06:29):
for the first time, not only were they picked to
be on their team, you had to and if you
got out, You got out there. This is not about pity.
This is about good, friendly competition, being treated as one
of the teammates um and then you get to see
them making their own decisions, but also get access to
actual help from people, not just being left and being
able to speak about the issues, from being treated differently
(06:52):
by the outside world or by their parents and or
disciplined differently, or even completely having to be reliant on
their parents and therefore having to act differently than other
teenage kids, trying to obtain autonomy, and just being able
to live their lives and the discussions they had poured
out in the world world. Of course, we're kind of
jumping over a lot of the things, the personal connections
(07:14):
and just the love that happens at the camp, and
we don't want to do that, but you really should
go and watch it because it's a deep account of
who they are as an individual and being able to
sit and discuss what they feel like they needed and
how they're often shut down. And we're gonna talk a
little bit more about this later in the themes because
we think it's really important, but it is really just
(07:37):
eye opening to have them being able to speak up
for themselves to truly air out the frustrations and to
be able to do it with people who understand them.
As Labrette talked about how in his hometown or at
his school he's the only one with a disability who
was disabled in the friend group. He has a great
friend group. But then coming back and realizing, oh, I
(07:59):
do have these concerns, or I do have this moment
of trying to figure myself out and angst and anger
and trying to pretend, uh you know that it doesn't
exist on this level, and or being uh isolated because
of it. He talks about that and again talks about
his own family and his relationship with his mom. You
see that when we talk about the layer of hierarchy
(08:23):
when it comes to disabilities and types of disabilities, and
then breaking that down in this conversation. So it's a
really beautiful time again they're having a democracy. We see
a young Judith human who takes on the net as
a leader, but trying to do it democratically, to giving
everybody a voice, whether it's about food, whether it's about
you know, sleeping, like all of these things. It's a
(08:44):
beautiful thing to see as you get to watch them
in the moment of the camps was nice, and also
the Crabs incident and if you don't know what I'm
talking about, you need to watch it. It's like just
such a realistic heads this is great. Yes, Like I said,
the discussion had does pour out into the real world
as Judith Human and so many from the camp continue
(09:07):
in taking their discussions into action. Human's own lawsuit against
the New York Board of Education was highlighted as part
of the catalyst in the disability movement and political protests
which you see later on in the film as they
continue to build up to being able to advocate for
themselves right and UM. As we did discuss in our
(09:28):
a d A episode, the movement was heated with sit ins, protests,
and political debates and negotiations UM. The documentary follows different
approaches in the disability activists, including the Five Out four
sit in in San Diego in nineteen seventy which spread
to Washington, d C. To pressure the then administration to
define federal guidelines around the Discrimination Act UM and to
(09:49):
push for the civil rights of all disabled people. And
it was during this time that supporters from other movements
such as the Black Panthers came and drove to not
only show support but also provide did items such as
meals and services for those protesting. Right. It was really
interesting to watch the different people and organizations that would
reach out and making sure that they were able to
(10:12):
support them as In fact, during that time, one activist
asked members of the Black Panthers, why are you doing this?
And they're like, we see you, we know what it's
like to be here, and we have to fight for
with each other. This is what we're about and I
love that. So the documentary continued following individuals as they
were going through their own private journeys, such as uh
Denise Sharer Jacobson, who talked about her life as a
(10:34):
disability educator and as a specialist in human sexuality, which
she talks about how she got there, which was pretty
much what we've talked about before. How often times people
with disabilities are dismissed when it comes to sexuality and
disregarded completely and seeing as completely a sexual and I'm
saying that in the literal definition, not necessarily a sexuality definition,
(10:55):
but that's one of the things that they state. Um,
and she kind of pushed rug. She was like, nah, no,
I needed to get mine out of kind of get
mine um and as she talked about her experience of
actually being pregnant, but because the doctors did not see
her as a sexual being or someone who could be sexual,
they dismissed that altogether, and that really pushed her forward
(11:16):
uh into this profession and just being an activist for
disabled community. Um And she talked about how she pushed
to defy expectations on which so many underestimator, including being
in a relationship and and growing with her family and
being a professional who made it out into the world.
Um and really became an icon in education, especially within
(11:40):
the disabled community as well as the education community. So
the documentary continues as Human and her organization, Disabled in
Action continued their fight, including the Capital Crawl in the nineties,
which was a poor if we talked about this earlier,
a demonstration of inaccessibility and no access for those with disabilities,
which made a huge impact because we still talk about
(12:02):
it today. Yes, and later we see a reunion with
several of the old camp goers with Human, the Brett
Jacobson and few others at the old camp site reminiscing
about the past, and it was a very powerful right
to see there then reuniting and reminiscing about the people
they've lost and the people who were still there and
why it was so important this camp. Right one of
(12:24):
the camp goers children came through to celebrate the camp
as well, and it was a heartwarming moment where she
got to see where some of the defying moments for
her father was there in that area. So it was
a beautiful ending. But of course with that, throughout the movie,
you see that as much as they do progress, they
(12:47):
do feel like they're being pushed back in some of
the progress. And as we're talking about today, we know
that's still a big issue. As many things that have happened,
there have been setbacks, as many good things have happened
with the A d A, there's a lot of things
that are problematic within the A d A. And we
needed to talk about that as well and who it
applies to, who gets access, And honestly that some of
(13:08):
the conversation that we're having with UM them just venting
and airing out the issues that they dealt with in
everyday life haven't gone away UM unfortunately, but they definitely
did a lot to make sure to bring some awareness
and some step forward. But yeah, if you haven't seen
this documentary, you should definitely check it out. We did
(13:42):
want to go on with some themes of the documentary
because I think it's really important that we highlight and
talk about how they have impacted and this movement impacted
all of society and all of us as a community,
and just understanding we need to keep pushing for human rights. Um.
And one of the big themes is, of course, the
(14:03):
history of those with disabilities, the rights of disabilities, civil
rights within disability communities, as well as just being able
to be heard um. And I thought it was really
good how they actually just backtracked and talked about it
from almost beginning to end, including some of the horrific things, um,
(14:24):
such as that we're talking about the will Brook Institute
and how horrible that discovery was. And it really kind
of opened up, uh, I guess the public to see
how horrific some of the people with disabilities were being treated. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean it's such a great vulnerable personal look. That's
(14:47):
the progress that the disability movement has had and how
hard they've had to fight, and a lot of it.
Watching it felt so frustrating because is what they were saying,
just make sense, and of course, like you should have
access two, being able to live by yourself, being able
(15:09):
to access public transportation, being able to get into public buildings,
like all of these things. But they were having to
fight so hard and that, you know, the camp. It
was so kind of heartbreaking but also heart warming to
hear them talk about how much they loved that camp
because they would go and it was like the first
(15:30):
time they just felt like they didn't have to fit
into society's rules or like make people feel comfortable, that
they could just be themselves and talk to other people,
and that's why it was so important to them, and
it was so life changing. And I think an experience
like that clearly carried through into this movement because it
(15:53):
was like a glimpse of well, no, we should have
had this all right. I mean, we already talked about
the ablest ide, yeah, of dismissing those with disabilities, thinking
that they're not able to think for themselves or do
for themselves, so therefore their lacking and shouldn't have an opinion, um,
which I think human does an amazing job in making sure.
(16:13):
At that camp she was like, no, you will have
a part in this and you will have a voice
in this and we will allow you to speak and
have a voice here. And I love that and which
she felt just rightly. So should be everywhere I should
be outside of just the safe space of kemp janet um.
But yeah, one of the things they talked about was
the fact that the ADA had not passed at that
(16:33):
point in time, and there was no anti discrimination laws uh,
and in place for those with disabilities. And when they
went into town being denied at places because they made
people uncomfortable, they made customers uncomfortable, and that in itself
was such a statement of course. Uh. This was one
of the counselors who was an African American man who
(16:55):
had come out of Alabama to hang out Jay Woodyard,
I believe, And he was talking about you know, and
at that point in time, I understood, because we knew
we had to be in our place and not to
make people uncomfortable because if we didn't, they could be
dangerous for us as well. And he was talking in
comparison about how important seeing this level was and how yes,
(17:15):
it was similar to each other, and we we had
so much to push forward and trying to get beyond
just existing and existing quietly or disappearing in the corner,
and I thought that was impactful. Yeah, one of the
things that we talked about with the personal history is
just the basic human rights, just being able to exist,
uh wherever, and and not being told you shouldn't be
(17:37):
here because you make this awkward or you make me
feel some sort of way. Um. And at one point
time when they were talking about the five o four protests,
they were she was talking about the fact one of
the protesters was talking about the fact, you know, this
was really uncomfortable and people don't want to see us.
And honestly, and when it comes down to it, she
quotes as saying, the world always wants us dead. Just
(18:00):
people know that every day of our lives we live
that reality. So there's always gonna be am I going
to survive? Am I going to push back? Or am
I going to fight to be here? Just talking about
the fact that, Yeah, honestly, during that time, society had
this whole don't look, don't tell, don't see, don't you know,
don't hear type of conversation, which is why the institutions
(18:20):
like Willebrook existed to just push them aside and be ignored,
which is so cruel, and she was talking about that
that like, you know, it was one of those things
that whether it's going to make us angry or is
it gonna make us fight, and talking about the fact
that yeah, we're gonna fight and you're gonna see that
we exist and when you ignore us, Yes, death happens.
(18:41):
Things that you don't want to see or think about happens,
but it's going to be there. And yeah, we're not disappearing,
which I thought was an important conversation that they were
having that they were like we're here, um, and you
see the interviews throughout their times, and I thought that
was interesting. And of course another with the history of
it is uh during the camp what impacted something that
(19:03):
was like, wow, I was talking about the right to privacy,
which I know we take I take for granted. Yeah. Yeah,
there were so many conversations that felt like a gift
to see, not only because I was like, oh, wow,
they got they still have this footage from you know,
this time period, but just being so open and vulnerable
and uh, in the face of real callousness from like
(19:28):
government officials, especially towards the end, where they're just like
it's going to cost too much, no way to give
you your basic rights. But yeah, it's just the They
discussed all of these ideas and concerns and things that
they had to deal with since childhood, around their lives
(19:48):
and privacy, around having to depend on others when that
didn't have to be the case, but like particularly their
parents perhaps, and just their lives kind of being up
for the judgment from everybody, like everybody being like, oh,
you must be sick. Oh there must be something wrong
(20:11):
with you. Right, I don't want to be involved because
you must be sick, which is wrong and gross. Right. Well. Yeah,
and also just like as you were talking about, you know,
having to depend on everyone else, they were talking about
the fact that you know, at one point, um, one
of the campers had to depend on someone else to
translate for her, um and then uh, that person who translates,
(20:35):
Like I feel like this is what she's trying to say.
And what we're talking about right now is being able
to be alone, not having to be completely monitored all
the time. We don't have that freedom, and it feels
we don't have privacy anymore. I can't be alone to
address myself because don't want to trust that I'm going
(20:55):
to do that to you know, like all of these
things for those like having to deal with the fact that, yeah,
Leabrec talked about how he had gone through surgery and
having to wear diapers and that was just so a
level of vulnerability that he wasn't ready for and coming
to a camp and you know, you know the stigma
of that, but this was a different camp where people
everybody was like yeah, we we understand this, we know
(21:16):
the struggle and then be given access care as well
as still being treated as a full fleshed human instead
of being and vantilized because of their disabilities. So it
was a really big eye opener to that. Of course,
as we talked about earlier the crab incident sexuality and
how that was a joke and I laughed. It was
(21:36):
pretty funny in that they're like, oh we got grabs,
here we go no, and being quarantined from each other
because they were sexually active. This was a chance for
them to finally explore with one another and and do
have these relationships, to be able to make out in
the corner. Like the stories. It made me smile because
I'm like, yeah, this is what happens, like well, not
(21:57):
church camp, but regular camp. I think maybe church camp too.
I just wasn't that cold kid. Yeah, that was one
of the most One of the threads that stuck out
the most to me was this exploration of sexuality because
as we have talked about and we discussed in the
A d A episode like that, that's a big discussion
(22:19):
in the disability community and disability rights community is you know,
they're all of these things that we need to talk about,
um and one of them is de sexualization and and
fantalizing of people who have disabilities. Uh. And Denise Jacobson,
she was very open about that and she as you
(22:40):
as you mentioned, like she went to the hospital she
had stomach pains and they're like, oh, it must be appendicitist,
and they took out perfectly healthy appendix before they bothered
to ask her like, oh are you sexually active? Oh
you have ganarihea, And this was the thing that was
like she was like, Nope, okay, I'm gonna go and
study sexually out specifically disability and sexuality. And I think
(23:04):
that's so important And I loved seeing her embrace it,
even if I was so furious, but that had to
be a thing for her at all Um, But it
was again like, yeah, there was something so nice about
just hearing them discuss, like, oh, this is our one
weekend aniversary. It was like, you know camp again. I
(23:26):
never went to camp, but I've also assumed that's what happened. Yes, yes, right,
but they were able to explore that and figure that out.
They were playing music, they were just being themselves. But yeah,
on top of that, you do see this amazing friendship
which they even talked about during the five oh for
uh sentence how it was Camp Oliver again, them coming together,
(23:48):
singing together, talking it through, talking about their methods, talking
about their grievances. Um. But these let friendships, though they
didn't always last, some of them really did. Nancy was
one of the ones that was next to Judith Human
the whole time, making sure things were getting done. Um.
Labrett talked about he was excited to come to Berkeley
because that's where they were to help with these different
(24:10):
protests and then the growing need to be activists. Um.
So it was really good to see. But yeah, there's
this level of commandari that that happens, especially when you
are vulnerable and open and then connect on that level.
But to move it into activism is a whole different
conversation into seeing what they did and what they accomplished
(24:34):
UM and coming in to understand what these types of
movements can do, but really just growing on trusting each other.
That was a whole different level to UM And of
course we're going to talk a little more about it
in a minute. But like the inclusion, making sure that
everyone again had a voice, making sure that there was
an interpreter for those who were deaf before I'm meeting
(24:55):
actually started making sure that people are being taken care
of at all eyes being asked what they thought. I
thought it was phenomenal how Judith under her leadership humans
leadership really did take on a whole life in itself,
and you could tell that she cared, like when she
would choke up and announcements, her friends would behind her.
(25:17):
Here for you, We got you encouraging her instead of
sitting in awkward silence, which I feel like happens a
lot when someone shows emotions, You're like, what do I do?
But they know they knew her and uplifted her and
it was a beautiful thing to see. Yeah, that was
one of my favorite parts. And the documentary starts with
a quote somewhere along the lines of like, this is
the story no One's heart and they should have heard it.
(25:39):
And I totally agree because when I for that episode,
like I'd researched it, but watching this, I was like,
look at what they accomplished by supporting each other, holding
each other up, talking um and just being so making
that effort to take care of each other. And what
was really a horror situation. Like they stayed in that
(26:01):
building for like twenty plus days and they had to
come up with like betting situations and washing situations and
food situation like all the stuff. And they did it
like they worked with other people. They made it happen.
They checked in with everybody. They were looking into what
people needed. Um. One of my favorite parts that's also
(26:22):
kind of sad, is that they were able to get
around like the FBI tapping their phones by using side language.
Like they they just really came together. They coalesced, and
as we talked about in that A d A episode,
it was one of the first times where people with
you know, disparate disabilities all came together and we're like, oh,
(26:43):
we're all part of this community and this movement, and
we can work together and we see you, and this
is inclusive, and it was very It was very, very powerful,
and I liked there was that threat of um, yeah,
the people from Camp Janette finding each other and others
who hadn't gone to that camp being like once you
were friends of them, you're friends with all of them,
right yeah, yeah, and noother In fact, as you're talking
(27:08):
about it, the FBI listening in. Uh, there wasn't a
lot of coverage at one point in time, and but
that one reporter stuck through. He made sure that this
was there. He was like, this is important. And then
when the strike happened, his story went global, uh and
finally got it out. But the fact that it was
still invisible with him doing so much, which was part
(27:29):
of the breakdown that you see, uh for human and
some of the leadership just really finding it disheartening because
people were ignoring it altogether because once again disabilities, Uh
maybe people in an ablest way uncomfortable, just as a reminder,
just existing made people uncomfortable, so they would rather ignore it.
And then you have big things like the Heraldo rivera
(27:51):
segment on the willow Brook Institutes which dramatized that which
it happened. I know that it happened, but it took
it to such a level that it also was like, well,
if it's not as climactic as this, is it getting
this attention. But it was interesting to see how how
they built that up at how things turned around and
come back out and you know, combating this way or
(28:11):
that way, um, and trying to get things accomplished. Uh.
But that's you know, that's the history of this movement,
that's the history of many movements that you see it
going backwards and forwards and um being a distraction to
being ignored, which happens a lot. But they would not
let that stop them, and I love that too. Um.
Of course within the movement as well, there was a
(28:34):
huge growth in it, as we talked about, with it
being escalated. Finally with the reports, they couldn't really ignore
it anymore, thank god. Yeah, yeah, it really was amazing
(28:59):
or they were able to accomplish and what they were
determined to accomplish, like despite the adversity, there were so
many things I was watching, I was like wow. At
one point they had um Judith Human and some of
the other leaders went to d C and they were
transported in the back of U haul chucks, like dark
moving trucks to get to the houses of leaders who
(29:23):
they wanted to talk to, and and just all of
these things two to be heard and to be seen,
and that did lead to this determination and that reporter
and all of these other factors came together to lead
to a growth in the movement and to lead to
more people being aware of it um and and things
(29:46):
like the cripple crawl that just really captured the nation's
attention of like, okay, we cannot ignore this right now.
Well that's exactly. The growth was so big that, yeah,
they had to They're like, they're not listening to us here.
We've been here San diegos listening to us, but that's
not enough. Okay, we're going to go to d C.
(30:08):
Y'all stay here, We're going here. And that still was enough,
So they were starting to like go to home, so like,
we're gonna make you listen. The secretary at that point
in time had to go around the back and sneak
away from them because he couldn't confront them to the
fact that he signed off in private, and it just
happened because he didn't want to acknowledge the fact, and
he tried to take some credit for it. We're not
going to give up to him. But also the fact
(30:29):
that it did capture the attentions of the Senate of
at least a few senate who not only held hearings,
but then you also sent like betting in such at
one point in time, the mayor came in support and
talk to them as well. But it did get that
type of traction and had to grow to that point, uh,
to the point that one of the Senates who when
they were having the Senate hearing, the representative of the Secretary,
(30:53):
who had no idea what was happening, got chased down
when he tried to ignore questions to come back about
you better come and answer the questions like it was
such a powerful move to see activists like that to
push to get those answers that they were determined to go.
And of course, again we talked about the inclusion, but
the intersectionality of it all the fact that we have
(31:14):
organizations with the civil rights movements when it comes to
the black civil rights movements, black panthers coming in um
making sure that they are not going to be pushed
out of the protests coming in and understanding if no
one else will when it comes to the rights that
if one person, one group of people, one community is
left behind, everything can crumble. Yeah. Yeah, that was another
(31:39):
piece of this that was so good to see. Great
to see because you know, we're big proponents of intersectional
feminism here and this is one instance of it where
we're seeing like different groups of marginalized people fighting for rights,
fighting for equality and equity coming together recognizing like if
if you don't have it, then it's not right, Like right,
(32:03):
then I don't have it either. So that was really
great to see, like to see that support that was
kind of you know, asked for, but offered pretty openly,
like yeah, all right, we'll help you, without the expectation
of you have to give something back, the hope you
know that will support each other. But it was it
was just nice to see, right and correct me if
(32:25):
I'm wrong. But I believe the person that turned to
the Black Panthers was a black woman, disabled woman. Um,
she was like, I got this, we know where to
go to, I know who will have our backs, and
they said yes without hesitating, and they were the epitome
of the intersexuality. This is where I am. I am
a black woman with disabilities. I have hardly no ability
(32:45):
to speak for myself. We have to push and I'm
going to do it this way. And she used her
voice to bring uh, two movements together. Of course we
don't see the full impact of both movements in this
specific documentary, but you see that this is an elevation
and a big conversation of what true intersectionality and ally
(33:06):
ship can look like. Um, and I think it's really
important to remember how this has to get pushed forward.
Of course, again, as we are going through our own
moments and trying to push for activism and advocacy for ourselves.
It took years, it took decades to get to here,
and it's still not enough. And we want to talk
(33:26):
about that because that's exactly kind of where we sit,
kind of how we've seen everything unfold and unraveled. And yeah,
at one point in time, we see Reagan talking about
how this is costing too much and we need to backtrack,
and oh my god, you know this is not doing
what you think it is. It's not cost efficient. And yeah,
them really dismissing humans and individuals because they don't want
(33:51):
to pay out to give them the same freedom and
rights as those enabled bodies. And again when I say
abled bodies, we know that's not permanent. Um, and people
kind of forget that, as one reporter talks about she
was able bodied and then she was hit uh in
a car accident and lost that and realizing for the
(34:15):
first time, oh my god, I never understood and here
I am, and to really thrive in that instead of
becoming uh discouraged by it necessarily except for the fact
that that disabled communities are set up to fail because
they're not given equal or equity in in this playing field. Absolutely, Yeah, um,
(34:35):
I thought her story. I'm glad it was included because
she was a good like before and after Oh I
didn't do any of the work and now I see
just to see that and and yeah, I that's one
of the things that um, we did discuss in the
A d F SO, but it's also something that we've
thought about a lot. I've thought about a lot. But
(34:57):
living in a capitalist society where how destructive that is
to be told by like the President's United States, you
cost too much to have your to have your rights,
your human rights. That's too expensive, Please go away, Like
that's abhorrence and disgusting and very harmful. Um, right, and
(35:24):
it is it is still a fight, like not at
all to diminish and the monumental things that they accomplished, um,
which I think they would. You know, they've been outspoken
like yes we did a d A, but we need
so much more. Like there is still so many instances
where it's sort of assumed like unless you complain, then
(35:49):
just go away, like don't don't make me use money
in my business, uh, to make it more accessible. Yeah,
there's so many conversations we need to have about how
the capitalist ideals really really have set up many people
to feel most people to feel. Um. But we won't
necessarily go into that for this topic. But yeah, I
(36:10):
think it's interesting to see the fact that human was
able to work in administration with the president of the
time at the time and to build that up and
then that position is that she she held has gone. Now, Um,
that's how little it's accounted for today, even though they
have made so much stride. And then I've already shown
how much of a positive impact it can have on
(36:32):
a society as a whole when people with disabilities are
included and actually put on the same level as anybody
else to be able to be a part of this
decision making, this policy making, business decision making, how profitable
if we want to talk about it, or it's just
impactful it has on an environment as a whole. And
(36:55):
I think that's part of the problem is they the
solutions that are found are given a timetable instead of
being restructured to actually change permanently. And that's problem for
so many things. And that's why we have to keep
going backwards and forwards and sideways in every way everywhere
(37:16):
instead of continuing upward as you would have hoped. But yeah,
I think it's important to see that. But it's also
I don't know about you seeing that them come back
together and having the conversation and being able to have
the conversation about why they fight, who they're fighting for,
how it's impacted them, how it's impacted their community, how
(37:37):
it can continue to impact, and how they can show
you know, I think we forget this so often that
there have been radicals and there have been revolutionaries from
jump uh and unfortunately we still have to look at
what they did to be as a reminder of how
to push forward. That we have to see these historical
contexts for the before and after and push the fight. Yeah,
(38:01):
that was one of the most one of the most
moving parts is in my opinion, at the end when
they come together, they reunited the camp which is being
bulldozed and turned into something else. Um. And they just
have really heartfelt moments with each other. But they asked
each other like did you ever think you were going
to go to Berkeley and do this? And did you
ever think you can go and do this? And they
(38:22):
were all like no. Um. So I think as much
work as we do continue to need to do, they
did accomplish so much like along with the other people
in the movement, other movements that helped UM, they really did.
And I was thinking about this other day about I
(38:45):
was watching some White House video and they had a
a s L interpreter in it, and I was like, Wow,
when they were when they were growing up, that wasn't
a thing like that just wasn't thought of, wasn't cared about.
And it's still a fight, absolutely, but it was. It
was very eye opening to me to see kind of
(39:05):
the like before and after, right. Yeah, And that's one
of the big things I love that I love seeing
a s L for concert goers when they do show
that's one of my favorite things, yes, but also just
a reminder um when it becomes for those who are
able bodied, Uh, you know, there's many of us with
(39:26):
invisible disabilities and we can't ignore that. And they talk
about this a lot too within that documentary because they
understand that better than anyone. As well. We know that
there's complex disabilities where they're more than one disabilities in
a person. As well as the fact that they talked
about trying to sustain like we got to see and
(39:47):
we didn't talk much about it then what an independent
living situation could have been for them and how they
as the disabled, were able to know their needs and
I think that's something we forget too often. And we
have to mind ourselves as if we were going to
be called allies again, this is one of those terms
I don't think we can give to ourselves. It has
to be given by the community who is saying that
(40:09):
you are an allied to us. But to be there
is to remember that they are in the lead, and
then we need to follow their lead. Period. So when
they say there's problems with the A d A, we
need to look at why and and see the research
that they're talking about and take that on as to Yeah,
this is a problem that they shouldn't be getting crumbs,
they should be getting everything. Um. As well as when
(40:29):
we see and I've seen this, Uh, we haven't talked
about this in TikTok. There's a debate about as L
and subtitles and the intersectionality of it. We need to
have that, we need we need to follow those in
that place, in that community and not take on the
battle as if as ours and we know better because
we don't. Um. There's a conversation about if you truly
(40:50):
want to learn a s L, that's great, maybe look
to uh the actual deaf community who are willing to
teach um. And there are those out there who are
teaching because they know it best. And I think it's
something that we have to remember as well, because we
don't want to be misled and being taught something inappropriate. Um.
But yeah, but there was that huge debate about that
(41:11):
and also how we are taking away work for those
in the communities who can teach much better. Uh. So,
so many things in this that we have to be
reminded of because this is eye opening and it shouldn't
be about pity or it shouldn't be about like watching
to be a savior for Annymoe just but to truly
understand and learn and that if we do want to
(41:32):
be advocates to once again remember they're already those out
there in front and those are the ones that we
need to look at because they've lived that life. Yes,
they've been doing the work. Yeah. So highly recommend this
movie if you haven't watched it, it is on Netflix. Um, yes,
and we suggest that you do. Uh. And in the meantime,
if you have a suggestion for our next feminist movie Wednesday,
(41:56):
Friday or what have you, please let us know. You
can emails at stuff at your mom Stuff at i
heeart mea dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've
Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
Thank you, Christina. Thanks to you for listening Stuff I
Never Told You as protection of I Heeart Radio. For
more podcast in my Heart Radio, you can visit your
heart radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your
(42:16):
favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
I never told your protection of I heart Radio, and
welcome to another edition of Feminist Movie. And then whatever
day you're listening to. I guess technically this is being
released on a Wednesday, so it's no longer a feminist
(00:26):
movie Friday. But you don't also you may not be
listening on a Wednesday. Who knows, right, it's true, we
have we have no control over this. Uh, you can
insert whatever day of the week that you're listening to it,
and that that's perfectly fine. Yes, And we talked about
this on our last movie and we wanted to come
back and make sure that we do a viewing and
(00:48):
have a conversation. But we are talking about the amazing
documentary crypt Camp Disability Revolution. But before we start, Annie,
I do need to ask did you do camps as
a kid? Did you go to like these little summer camps?
Funny you should add said, because I just had a
conversation with my friends about how there's like very jokingly
camp kids and non camp kids. Um, I did not
(01:08):
do it. I as as I have said today, the
reasons might be different. I do not sleep well around
other people. That sounded like a nightmare to me. I
did like the idea of like learning out a ty
knots or shoot bow and arrows or whatever. But I
feel like a lot of movies about camp that I
watched as a kid did not make it seem like
(01:29):
an experience I would enjoy. It sounded like there's gonna
be a lot of pranks and I was gonna be
terrified and for life. Oh no, I think it's important
to what kind of camp you go to. I will
say that I did go to a couple of church camps,
and it was very rare that I went because they
were expensive. But I also thought was one of those
(01:50):
that thought camp was kind of not useless. But just like,
why why would I do this? Um? Why would I
go away into a strange place and pay all this money?
Uh to do things like eat the food that I
don't like being in the on was getting eaten up
by bugs, like all of these things. But I really
like the ones that I was able to do things.
(02:10):
I went to a church camp that went and built
homes throughout the town's underprivileged areas. I loved that that
part of it was so much fun, and I built
a lot of friendships based on it. I did because
I went to several because after I went to one
of them, I went to several because I love the
aspect of going to build and do things all day
long and enjoy those times. Of course, the first one
(02:30):
was amazing, so I wanted to relive that one over
and over and over again. That didn't happen. But I
had some really good experiences. But I wouldn't say that
it was my cup of tea. I like camping to
a certain degree, but yeah, I would always be exhausted
when I left. But but like I said, I did
build some bonds. And I'm really excited about this documentary
(02:52):
because that's kind of where we see, uh, this type
of camp going. But yeah, so we are talking about
the Dance Award winning, Slash Oscar nominated documentary Crypt Camp
a Disability Revolution, which was released in directed by Nicole
Newnham and James le Brett, who was camper himself at
(03:12):
what we are calling it crypt Camp or crypt jan
ad Um, and it was also executive produced by the
Obama's Michelle and Baraque. It was it was and we
mentioned this not only in a recent um feminist movie Friday.
I think also in our recent book Clip, but in
our A d A or breakdown on the ad A,
we talked about coming back to discuss this movie. Um,
(03:34):
it's on Netflix streaming if you haven't seen it, want
to watch it. Not currently a sponsor, but just letting
you know. The documentary follows le Brett, Judith Human, Denise Share, Jacobson,
Nancy Rosenblum, Nancy Dangelo, Anna Kupolo Freeman, Ellie Abrashkin, Gene
Mala Frante, Steve Hoffman, Michael Tannenbaum, Al Levy, and others
(03:59):
who attended as campers at Camp jened A camphlet by
Larry Allison, who was the camp director. We also got
to meet staffers like Lionel, Joe Woodyard, Joseph O'Connor, and
people who are on site to document the film with
the People's Video Theater, like Howard gustat Um, who was
able to get footage of the times and discussion throughout
(04:19):
the camp. So that was really cool, actually right Honestly,
the first thing I thought was like, what an amazing
thing that they were able to get this on film
and have such an open, honest conversation and it was
able to get that and restore that and be able
to show that to others because it was a phenomenal
idea and you don't see that, you know. We've talked
about this many times when we think of historical figures
(04:41):
and historical events that we don't get to see or
have actual proof of what happened there. And to have
like a first person contact to see what is happening
and what has happened, it's phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah, And it
was very like a moment in time captured because I
was like, this is seventies is how I feel it.
I love seeing them in their prime and they were
(05:03):
selling themselves and exploring that, and I'm like, I wonder
how they turned out as adults. Just they still follow
with that. Yes, and we got to see some answers
to that question. Yeah. The film was fifteen years in
the making with camp Goer Labrick who has spin and
Bithada as a director and narrator throughout the documentary, and Yes,
(05:24):
it was premiered at the Sundance Festival. Camp Jeannette was
founded in ninety two and the cat Skills and was
shut down in nineteen seventy seven, and this is where
a majority of it takes place, where a lot of
like the blossoming of this activism that we see right
and I think it's postially because a Labrett who came
(05:44):
in later is the one that says the tone of
how he got to be a part of that and
seeing that as well, and then if I am correct,
I don't know what is happening with Kim Jannette right now,
but there's a lot of conversation about things with clip
camp and how that's kind of blossomed a new movement
in twenty as well, so it's good to see how
it kind of picks back up. But the documentary as
(06:06):
well we are discussing shows the impact of camp to
Neet and the campers who could escape the world and
go to their personal quote with Stock as one of
the campers say, they are the campers were able to
live as they wanted, hooking up with some of the
other campers, maybe for the first time, getting girlfriends, getting boyfriends,
having all this new romance, playing and truly competing with
each other. There was a line when they talked about
(06:29):
for the first time, not only were they picked to
be on their team, you had to and if you
got out, You got out there. This is not about pity.
This is about good, friendly competition, being treated as one
of the teammates um and then you get to see
them making their own decisions, but also get access to
actual help from people, not just being left and being
able to speak about the issues, from being treated differently
(06:52):
by the outside world or by their parents and or
disciplined differently, or even completely having to be reliant on
their parents and therefore having to act differently than other
teenage kids, trying to obtain autonomy, and just being able
to live their lives and the discussions they had poured
out in the world world. Of course, we're kind of
jumping over a lot of the things, the personal connections
(07:14):
and just the love that happens at the camp, and
we don't want to do that, but you really should
go and watch it because it's a deep account of
who they are as an individual and being able to
sit and discuss what they feel like they needed and
how they're often shut down. And we're gonna talk a
little bit more about this later in the themes because
we think it's really important, but it is really just
(07:37):
eye opening to have them being able to speak up
for themselves to truly air out the frustrations and to
be able to do it with people who understand them.
As Labrette talked about how in his hometown or at
his school he's the only one with a disability who
was disabled in the friend group. He has a great
friend group. But then coming back and realizing, oh, I
(07:59):
do have these concerns, or I do have this moment
of trying to figure myself out and angst and anger
and trying to pretend, uh you know that it doesn't
exist on this level, and or being uh isolated because
of it. He talks about that and again talks about
his own family and his relationship with his mom. You
see that when we talk about the layer of hierarchy
(08:23):
when it comes to disabilities and types of disabilities, and
then breaking that down in this conversation. So it's a
really beautiful time again they're having a democracy. We see
a young Judith human who takes on the net as
a leader, but trying to do it democratically, to giving
everybody a voice, whether it's about food, whether it's about
you know, sleeping, like all of these things. It's a
(08:44):
beautiful thing to see as you get to watch them
in the moment of the camps was nice, and also
the Crabs incident and if you don't know what I'm
talking about, you need to watch it. It's like just
such a realistic heads this is great. Yes, Like I said,
the discussion had does pour out into the real world
as Judith Human and so many from the camp continue
(09:07):
in taking their discussions into action. Human's own lawsuit against
the New York Board of Education was highlighted as part
of the catalyst in the disability movement and political protests
which you see later on in the film as they
continue to build up to being able to advocate for
themselves right and UM. As we did discuss in our
(09:28):
a d A episode, the movement was heated with sit ins, protests,
and political debates and negotiations UM. The documentary follows different
approaches in the disability activists, including the Five Out four
sit in in San Diego in nineteen seventy which spread
to Washington, d C. To pressure the then administration to
define federal guidelines around the Discrimination Act UM and to
(09:49):
push for the civil rights of all disabled people. And
it was during this time that supporters from other movements
such as the Black Panthers came and drove to not
only show support but also provide did items such as
meals and services for those protesting. Right. It was really
interesting to watch the different people and organizations that would
reach out and making sure that they were able to
(10:12):
support them as In fact, during that time, one activist
asked members of the Black Panthers, why are you doing this?
And they're like, we see you, we know what it's
like to be here, and we have to fight for
with each other. This is what we're about and I
love that. So the documentary continued following individuals as they
were going through their own private journeys, such as uh
Denise Sharer Jacobson, who talked about her life as a
(10:34):
disability educator and as a specialist in human sexuality, which
she talks about how she got there, which was pretty
much what we've talked about before. How often times people
with disabilities are dismissed when it comes to sexuality and
disregarded completely and seeing as completely a sexual and I'm
saying that in the literal definition, not necessarily a sexuality definition,
(10:55):
but that's one of the things that they state. Um,
and she kind of pushed rug. She was like, nah, no,
I needed to get mine out of kind of get
mine um and as she talked about her experience of
actually being pregnant, but because the doctors did not see
her as a sexual being or someone who could be sexual,
they dismissed that altogether, and that really pushed her forward
(11:16):
uh into this profession and just being an activist for
disabled community. Um And she talked about how she pushed
to defy expectations on which so many underestimator, including being
in a relationship and and growing with her family and
being a professional who made it out into the world.
Um and really became an icon in education, especially within
(11:40):
the disabled community as well as the education community. So
the documentary continues as Human and her organization, Disabled in
Action continued their fight, including the Capital Crawl in the nineties,
which was a poor if we talked about this earlier,
a demonstration of inaccessibility and no access for those with disabilities,
which made a huge impact because we still talk about
(12:02):
it today. Yes, and later we see a reunion with
several of the old camp goers with Human, the Brett
Jacobson and few others at the old camp site reminiscing
about the past, and it was a very powerful right
to see there then reuniting and reminiscing about the people
they've lost and the people who were still there and
why it was so important this camp. Right one of
(12:24):
the camp goers children came through to celebrate the camp
as well, and it was a heartwarming moment where she
got to see where some of the defying moments for
her father was there in that area. So it was
a beautiful ending. But of course with that, throughout the movie,
you see that as much as they do progress, they
(12:47):
do feel like they're being pushed back in some of
the progress. And as we're talking about today, we know
that's still a big issue. As many things that have happened,
there have been setbacks, as many good things have happened
with the A d A, there's a lot of things
that are problematic within the A d A. And we
needed to talk about that as well and who it
applies to, who gets access, And honestly that some of
(13:08):
the conversation that we're having with UM them just venting
and airing out the issues that they dealt with in
everyday life haven't gone away UM unfortunately, but they definitely
did a lot to make sure to bring some awareness
and some step forward. But yeah, if you haven't seen
this documentary, you should definitely check it out. We did
(13:42):
want to go on with some themes of the documentary
because I think it's really important that we highlight and
talk about how they have impacted and this movement impacted
all of society and all of us as a community,
and just understanding we need to keep pushing for human rights. Um.
And one of the big themes is, of course, the
(14:03):
history of those with disabilities, the rights of disabilities, civil
rights within disability communities, as well as just being able
to be heard um. And I thought it was really
good how they actually just backtracked and talked about it
from almost beginning to end, including some of the horrific things, um,
(14:24):
such as that we're talking about the will Brook Institute
and how horrible that discovery was. And it really kind
of opened up, uh, I guess the public to see
how horrific some of the people with disabilities were being treated. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean it's such a great vulnerable personal look. That's
(14:47):
the progress that the disability movement has had and how
hard they've had to fight, and a lot of it.
Watching it felt so frustrating because is what they were saying,
just make sense, and of course, like you should have
access two, being able to live by yourself, being able
(15:09):
to access public transportation, being able to get into public buildings,
like all of these things. But they were having to
fight so hard and that, you know, the camp. It
was so kind of heartbreaking but also heart warming to
hear them talk about how much they loved that camp
because they would go and it was like the first
(15:30):
time they just felt like they didn't have to fit
into society's rules or like make people feel comfortable, that
they could just be themselves and talk to other people,
and that's why it was so important to them, and
it was so life changing. And I think an experience
like that clearly carried through into this movement because it
(15:53):
was like a glimpse of well, no, we should have
had this all right. I mean, we already talked about
the ablest ide, yeah, of dismissing those with disabilities, thinking
that they're not able to think for themselves or do
for themselves, so therefore their lacking and shouldn't have an opinion, um,
which I think human does an amazing job in making sure.
(16:13):
At that camp she was like, no, you will have
a part in this and you will have a voice
in this and we will allow you to speak and
have a voice here. And I love that and which
she felt just rightly. So should be everywhere I should
be outside of just the safe space of kemp janet um.
But yeah, one of the things they talked about was
the fact that the ADA had not passed at that
(16:33):
point in time, and there was no anti discrimination laws uh,
and in place for those with disabilities. And when they
went into town being denied at places because they made
people uncomfortable, they made customers uncomfortable, and that in itself
was such a statement of course. Uh. This was one
of the counselors who was an African American man who
(16:55):
had come out of Alabama to hang out Jay Woodyard,
I believe, And he was talking about you know, and
at that point in time, I understood, because we knew
we had to be in our place and not to
make people uncomfortable because if we didn't, they could be
dangerous for us as well. And he was talking in
comparison about how important seeing this level was and how yes,
(17:15):
it was similar to each other, and we we had
so much to push forward and trying to get beyond
just existing and existing quietly or disappearing in the corner,
and I thought that was impactful. Yeah, one of the
things that we talked about with the personal history is
just the basic human rights, just being able to exist,
uh wherever, and and not being told you shouldn't be
(17:37):
here because you make this awkward or you make me
feel some sort of way. Um. And at one point
time when they were talking about the five o four protests,
they were she was talking about the fact one of
the protesters was talking about the fact, you know, this
was really uncomfortable and people don't want to see us.
And honestly, and when it comes down to it, she
quotes as saying, the world always wants us dead. Just
(18:00):
people know that every day of our lives we live
that reality. So there's always gonna be am I going
to survive? Am I going to push back? Or am
I going to fight to be here? Just talking about
the fact that, Yeah, honestly, during that time, society had
this whole don't look, don't tell, don't see, don't you know,
don't hear type of conversation, which is why the institutions
(18:20):
like Willebrook existed to just push them aside and be ignored,
which is so cruel, and she was talking about that
that like, you know, it was one of those things
that whether it's going to make us angry or is
it gonna make us fight, and talking about the fact
that yeah, we're gonna fight and you're gonna see that
we exist and when you ignore us, Yes, death happens.
(18:41):
Things that you don't want to see or think about happens,
but it's going to be there. And yeah, we're not disappearing,
which I thought was an important conversation that they were
having that they were like we're here, um, and you
see the interviews throughout their times, and I thought that
was interesting. And of course another with the history of
it is uh during the camp what impacted something that
(19:03):
was like, wow, I was talking about the right to privacy,
which I know we take I take for granted. Yeah. Yeah,
there were so many conversations that felt like a gift
to see, not only because I was like, oh, wow,
they got they still have this footage from you know,
this time period, but just being so open and vulnerable
and uh, in the face of real callousness from like
(19:28):
government officials, especially towards the end, where they're just like
it's going to cost too much, no way to give
you your basic rights. But yeah, it's just the They
discussed all of these ideas and concerns and things that
they had to deal with since childhood, around their lives
(19:48):
and privacy, around having to depend on others when that
didn't have to be the case, but like particularly their
parents perhaps, and just their lives kind of being up
for the judgment from everybody, like everybody being like, oh,
you must be sick. Oh there must be something wrong
(20:11):
with you. Right, I don't want to be involved because
you must be sick, which is wrong and gross. Right. Well. Yeah,
and also just like as you were talking about, you know,
having to depend on everyone else, they were talking about
the fact that you know, at one point, um, one
of the campers had to depend on someone else to
translate for her, um and then uh, that person who translates,
(20:35):
Like I feel like this is what she's trying to say.
And what we're talking about right now is being able
to be alone, not having to be completely monitored all
the time. We don't have that freedom, and it feels
we don't have privacy anymore. I can't be alone to
address myself because don't want to trust that I'm going
(20:55):
to do that to you know, like all of these
things for those like having to deal with the fact that, yeah,
Leabrec talked about how he had gone through surgery and
having to wear diapers and that was just so a
level of vulnerability that he wasn't ready for and coming
to a camp and you know, you know the stigma
of that, but this was a different camp where people
everybody was like yeah, we we understand this, we know
(21:16):
the struggle and then be given access care as well
as still being treated as a full fleshed human instead
of being and vantilized because of their disabilities. So it
was a really big eye opener to that. Of course,
as we talked about earlier the crab incident sexuality and
how that was a joke and I laughed. It was
(21:36):
pretty funny in that they're like, oh we got grabs,
here we go no, and being quarantined from each other
because they were sexually active. This was a chance for
them to finally explore with one another and and do
have these relationships, to be able to make out in
the corner. Like the stories. It made me smile because
I'm like, yeah, this is what happens, like well, not
(21:57):
church camp, but regular camp. I think maybe church camp too.
I just wasn't that cold kid. Yeah, that was one
of the most One of the threads that stuck out
the most to me was this exploration of sexuality because
as we have talked about and we discussed in the
A d A episode like that, that's a big discussion
(22:19):
in the disability community and disability rights community is you know,
they're all of these things that we need to talk about,
um and one of them is de sexualization and and
fantalizing of people who have disabilities. Uh. And Denise Jacobson,
she was very open about that and she as you
(22:40):
as you mentioned, like she went to the hospital she
had stomach pains and they're like, oh, it must be appendicitist,
and they took out perfectly healthy appendix before they bothered
to ask her like, oh are you sexually active? Oh
you have ganarihea, And this was the thing that was
like she was like, Nope, okay, I'm gonna go and
study sexually out specifically disability and sexuality. And I think
(23:04):
that's so important And I loved seeing her embrace it,
even if I was so furious, but that had to
be a thing for her at all Um, But it
was again like, yeah, there was something so nice about
just hearing them discuss, like, oh, this is our one
weekend aniversary. It was like, you know camp again. I
(23:26):
never went to camp, but I've also assumed that's what happened. Yes, yes, right,
but they were able to explore that and figure that out.
They were playing music, they were just being themselves. But yeah,
on top of that, you do see this amazing friendship
which they even talked about during the five oh for
uh sentence how it was Camp Oliver again, them coming together,
(23:48):
singing together, talking it through, talking about their methods, talking
about their grievances. Um. But these let friendships, though they
didn't always last, some of them really did. Nancy was
one of the ones that was next to Judith Human
the whole time, making sure things were getting done. Um.
Labrett talked about he was excited to come to Berkeley
because that's where they were to help with these different
(24:10):
protests and then the growing need to be activists. Um.
So it was really good to see. But yeah, there's
this level of commandari that that happens, especially when you
are vulnerable and open and then connect on that level.
But to move it into activism is a whole different
conversation into seeing what they did and what they accomplished
(24:34):
UM and coming in to understand what these types of
movements can do, but really just growing on trusting each other.
That was a whole different level to UM And of
course we're going to talk a little more about it
in a minute. But like the inclusion, making sure that
everyone again had a voice, making sure that there was
an interpreter for those who were deaf before I'm meeting
(24:55):
actually started making sure that people are being taken care
of at all eyes being asked what they thought. I
thought it was phenomenal how Judith under her leadership humans
leadership really did take on a whole life in itself,
and you could tell that she cared, like when she
would choke up and announcements, her friends would behind her.
(25:17):
Here for you, We got you encouraging her instead of
sitting in awkward silence, which I feel like happens a
lot when someone shows emotions, You're like, what do I do?
But they know they knew her and uplifted her and
it was a beautiful thing to see. Yeah, that was
one of my favorite parts. And the documentary starts with
a quote somewhere along the lines of like, this is
the story no One's heart and they should have heard it.
(25:39):
And I totally agree because when I for that episode,
like I'd researched it, but watching this, I was like,
look at what they accomplished by supporting each other, holding
each other up, talking um and just being so making
that effort to take care of each other. And what
was really a horror situation. Like they stayed in that
(26:01):
building for like twenty plus days and they had to
come up with like betting situations and washing situations and
food situation like all the stuff. And they did it
like they worked with other people. They made it happen.
They checked in with everybody. They were looking into what
people needed. Um. One of my favorite parts that's also
(26:22):
kind of sad, is that they were able to get
around like the FBI tapping their phones by using side language.
Like they they just really came together. They coalesced, and
as we talked about in that A d A episode,
it was one of the first times where people with
you know, disparate disabilities all came together and we're like, oh,
(26:43):
we're all part of this community and this movement, and
we can work together and we see you, and this
is inclusive, and it was very It was very, very powerful,
and I liked there was that threat of um, yeah,
the people from Camp Janette finding each other and others
who hadn't gone to that camp being like once you
were friends of them, you're friends with all of them,
right yeah, yeah, and noother In fact, as you're talking
(27:08):
about it, the FBI listening in. Uh, there wasn't a
lot of coverage at one point in time, and but
that one reporter stuck through. He made sure that this
was there. He was like, this is important. And then
when the strike happened, his story went global, uh and
finally got it out. But the fact that it was
still invisible with him doing so much, which was part
(27:29):
of the breakdown that you see, uh for human and
some of the leadership just really finding it disheartening because
people were ignoring it altogether because once again disabilities, Uh
maybe people in an ablest way uncomfortable, just as a reminder,
just existing made people uncomfortable, so they would rather ignore it.
And then you have big things like the Heraldo rivera
(27:51):
segment on the willow Brook Institutes which dramatized that which
it happened. I know that it happened, but it took
it to such a level that it also was like, well,
if it's not as climactic as this, is it getting
this attention. But it was interesting to see how how
they built that up at how things turned around and
come back out and you know, combating this way or
(28:11):
that way, um, and trying to get things accomplished. Uh.
But that's you know, that's the history of this movement,
that's the history of many movements that you see it
going backwards and forwards and um being a distraction to
being ignored, which happens a lot. But they would not
let that stop them, and I love that too. Um.
Of course within the movement as well, there was a
(28:34):
huge growth in it, as we talked about, with it
being escalated. Finally with the reports, they couldn't really ignore
it anymore, thank god. Yeah, yeah, it really was amazing
(28:59):
or they were able to accomplish and what they were
determined to accomplish, like despite the adversity, there were so
many things I was watching, I was like wow. At
one point they had um Judith Human and some of
the other leaders went to d C and they were
transported in the back of U haul chucks, like dark
moving trucks to get to the houses of leaders who
(29:23):
they wanted to talk to, and and just all of
these things two to be heard and to be seen,
and that did lead to this determination and that reporter
and all of these other factors came together to lead
to a growth in the movement and to lead to
more people being aware of it um and and things
(29:46):
like the cripple crawl that just really captured the nation's
attention of like, okay, we cannot ignore this right now.
Well that's exactly. The growth was so big that, yeah,
they had to They're like, they're not listening to us here.
We've been here San diegos listening to us, but that's
not enough. Okay, we're going to go to d C.
(30:08):
Y'all stay here, We're going here. And that still was enough,
So they were starting to like go to home, so like,
we're gonna make you listen. The secretary at that point
in time had to go around the back and sneak
away from them because he couldn't confront them to the
fact that he signed off in private, and it just
happened because he didn't want to acknowledge the fact, and
he tried to take some credit for it. We're not
going to give up to him. But also the fact
(30:29):
that it did capture the attentions of the Senate of
at least a few senate who not only held hearings,
but then you also sent like betting in such at
one point in time, the mayor came in support and
talk to them as well. But it did get that
type of traction and had to grow to that point, uh,
to the point that one of the Senates who when
they were having the Senate hearing, the representative of the Secretary,
(30:53):
who had no idea what was happening, got chased down
when he tried to ignore questions to come back about
you better come and answer the questions like it was
such a powerful move to see activists like that to
push to get those answers that they were determined to go.
And of course, again we talked about the inclusion, but
the intersectionality of it all the fact that we have
(31:14):
organizations with the civil rights movements when it comes to
the black civil rights movements, black panthers coming in um
making sure that they are not going to be pushed
out of the protests coming in and understanding if no
one else will when it comes to the rights that
if one person, one group of people, one community is
left behind, everything can crumble. Yeah. Yeah, that was another
(31:39):
piece of this that was so good to see. Great
to see because you know, we're big proponents of intersectional
feminism here and this is one instance of it where
we're seeing like different groups of marginalized people fighting for rights,
fighting for equality and equity coming together recognizing like if
if you don't have it, then it's not right, Like right,
(32:03):
then I don't have it either. So that was really
great to see, like to see that support that was
kind of you know, asked for, but offered pretty openly,
like yeah, all right, we'll help you, without the expectation
of you have to give something back, the hope you
know that will support each other. But it was it
was just nice to see, right and correct me if
(32:25):
I'm wrong. But I believe the person that turned to
the Black Panthers was a black woman, disabled woman. Um,
she was like, I got this, we know where to
go to, I know who will have our backs, and
they said yes without hesitating, and they were the epitome
of the intersexuality. This is where I am. I am
a black woman with disabilities. I have hardly no ability
(32:45):
to speak for myself. We have to push and I'm
going to do it this way. And she used her
voice to bring uh, two movements together. Of course we
don't see the full impact of both movements in this
specific documentary, but you see that this is an elevation
and a big conversation of what true intersectionality and ally
(33:06):
ship can look like. Um, and I think it's really
important to remember how this has to get pushed forward.
Of course, again, as we are going through our own
moments and trying to push for activism and advocacy for ourselves.
It took years, it took decades to get to here,
and it's still not enough. And we want to talk
(33:26):
about that because that's exactly kind of where we sit,
kind of how we've seen everything unfold and unraveled. And yeah,
at one point in time, we see Reagan talking about
how this is costing too much and we need to backtrack,
and oh my god, you know this is not doing
what you think it is. It's not cost efficient. And yeah,
them really dismissing humans and individuals because they don't want
(33:51):
to pay out to give them the same freedom and
rights as those enabled bodies. And again when I say
abled bodies, we know that's not permanent. Um, and people
kind of forget that, as one reporter talks about she
was able bodied and then she was hit uh in
a car accident and lost that and realizing for the
(34:15):
first time, oh my god, I never understood and here
I am, and to really thrive in that instead of
becoming uh discouraged by it necessarily except for the fact
that that disabled communities are set up to fail because
they're not given equal or equity in in this playing field. Absolutely, Yeah, um,
(34:35):
I thought her story. I'm glad it was included because
she was a good like before and after Oh I
didn't do any of the work and now I see
just to see that and and yeah, I that's one
of the things that um, we did discuss in the
A d F SO, but it's also something that we've
thought about a lot. I've thought about a lot. But
(34:57):
living in a capitalist society where how destructive that is
to be told by like the President's United States, you
cost too much to have your to have your rights,
your human rights. That's too expensive, Please go away, Like
that's abhorrence and disgusting and very harmful. Um, right, and
(35:24):
it is it is still a fight, like not at
all to diminish and the monumental things that they accomplished, um,
which I think they would. You know, they've been outspoken
like yes we did a d A, but we need
so much more. Like there is still so many instances
where it's sort of assumed like unless you complain, then
(35:49):
just go away, like don't don't make me use money
in my business, uh, to make it more accessible. Yeah,
there's so many conversations we need to have about how
the capitalist ideals really really have set up many people
to feel most people to feel. Um. But we won't
necessarily go into that for this topic. But yeah, I
(36:10):
think it's interesting to see the fact that human was
able to work in administration with the president of the
time at the time and to build that up and
then that position is that she she held has gone. Now, Um,
that's how little it's accounted for today, even though they
have made so much stride. And then I've already shown
how much of a positive impact it can have on
(36:32):
a society as a whole when people with disabilities are
included and actually put on the same level as anybody
else to be able to be a part of this
decision making, this policy making, business decision making, how profitable
if we want to talk about it, or it's just
impactful it has on an environment as a whole. And
(36:55):
I think that's part of the problem is they the
solutions that are found are given a timetable instead of
being restructured to actually change permanently. And that's problem for
so many things. And that's why we have to keep
going backwards and forwards and sideways in every way everywhere
(37:16):
instead of continuing upward as you would have hoped. But yeah,
I think it's important to see that. But it's also
I don't know about you seeing that them come back
together and having the conversation and being able to have
the conversation about why they fight, who they're fighting for,
how it's impacted them, how it's impacted their community, how
(37:37):
it can continue to impact, and how they can show
you know, I think we forget this so often that
there have been radicals and there have been revolutionaries from
jump uh and unfortunately we still have to look at
what they did to be as a reminder of how
to push forward. That we have to see these historical
contexts for the before and after and push the fight. Yeah,
(38:01):
that was one of the most one of the most
moving parts is in my opinion, at the end when
they come together, they reunited the camp which is being
bulldozed and turned into something else. Um. And they just
have really heartfelt moments with each other. But they asked
each other like did you ever think you were going
to go to Berkeley and do this? And did you
ever think you can go and do this? And they
(38:22):
were all like no. Um. So I think as much
work as we do continue to need to do, they
did accomplish so much like along with the other people
in the movement, other movements that helped UM, they really did.
And I was thinking about this other day about I
(38:45):
was watching some White House video and they had a
a s L interpreter in it, and I was like, Wow,
when they were when they were growing up, that wasn't
a thing like that just wasn't thought of, wasn't cared about.
And it's still a fight, absolutely, but it was. It
was very eye opening to me to see kind of
(39:05):
the like before and after, right. Yeah, And that's one
of the big things I love that I love seeing
a s L for concert goers when they do show
that's one of my favorite things, yes, but also just
a reminder um when it becomes for those who are
able bodied, Uh, you know, there's many of us with
(39:26):
invisible disabilities and we can't ignore that. And they talk
about this a lot too within that documentary because they
understand that better than anyone. As well. We know that
there's complex disabilities where they're more than one disabilities in
a person. As well as the fact that they talked
about trying to sustain like we got to see and
(39:47):
we didn't talk much about it then what an independent
living situation could have been for them and how they
as the disabled, were able to know their needs and
I think that's something we forget too often. And we
have to mind ourselves as if we were going to
be called allies again, this is one of those terms
I don't think we can give to ourselves. It has
to be given by the community who is saying that
(40:09):
you are an allied to us. But to be there
is to remember that they are in the lead, and
then we need to follow their lead. Period. So when
they say there's problems with the A d A, we
need to look at why and and see the research
that they're talking about and take that on as to Yeah,
this is a problem that they shouldn't be getting crumbs,
they should be getting everything. Um. As well as when
(40:29):
we see and I've seen this, Uh, we haven't talked
about this in TikTok. There's a debate about as L
and subtitles and the intersectionality of it. We need to
have that, we need we need to follow those in
that place, in that community and not take on the
battle as if as ours and we know better because
we don't. Um. There's a conversation about if you truly
(40:50):
want to learn a s L, that's great, maybe look
to uh the actual deaf community who are willing to
teach um. And there are those out there who are
teaching because they know it best. And I think it's
something that we have to remember as well, because we
don't want to be misled and being taught something inappropriate. Um.
But yeah, but there was that huge debate about that
(41:11):
and also how we are taking away work for those
in the communities who can teach much better. Uh. So,
so many things in this that we have to be
reminded of because this is eye opening and it shouldn't
be about pity or it shouldn't be about like watching
to be a savior for Annymoe just but to truly
understand and learn and that if we do want to
(41:32):
be advocates to once again remember they're already those out
there in front and those are the ones that we
need to look at because they've lived that life. Yes,
they've been doing the work. Yeah. So highly recommend this
movie if you haven't watched it, it is on Netflix. Um, yes,
and we suggest that you do. Uh. And in the meantime,
if you have a suggestion for our next feminist movie Wednesday,
(41:56):
Friday or what have you, please let us know. You
can emails at stuff at your mom Stuff at i
heeart mea dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've
Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
Thank you, Christina. Thanks to you for listening Stuff I
Never Told You as protection of I Heeart Radio. For
more podcast in my Heart Radio, you can visit your
heart radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your
(42:16):
favorite shows.
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