January 20, 2023 • 50 mins
Emerald Fennell's 2020 thriller Promising Young Woman caused a lot of conversation around rape culture, so-called 'nice guys', the people our society prioritizes, and the ones we view as expendable.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't goin a
Stephane never told you production of I Heart Radio. And
it is time for our first feminist movie Friday, and
I think it is coming out on Friday of This
(00:26):
one has been much much requested. And I blame all
of you for my trauma. You held that. I blame
the people who I'm just kidding. It was a movie
we should have watched, but I'm traumatized. Thank you very much.
It was quite traumatizing. We were talking about promising young
woman and I remember I had been meaning to watch it.
(00:48):
I knew it was going to be a rough one.
I knew generally how it ended, and I was like
preparing myself to watch it and it was still pretty yeah,
pretty rough. So go ahead and put content warning here.
It is a dramatic movie and it does involve sexual assault, rape, suicide, death, um, murder,
(01:12):
all of that. Yeah, And just like a general again,
if you if you know anybody who's experienced sexual assault
or you've been through it, I mean even just being
like a woman in this world. It's not an easy
easy watch. Um. And we are going to talk about
(01:33):
some of this stuff, and I think, um, I'm going
to share some personal stuff, but it's not like I
don't think we're gonna get like two and dope. But yeah,
it is a rough one you're speaking of. You can
see our Rape Revenge episodes for more about this. UM.
(01:53):
And yeah, a lot of listeners did request this one,
so we do take your requests. We have a list.
Don't never fear, never fear, I'm met at you, though
I did want to throw in. I watched she said
he was not currently a sponsor, but was a sponsor
at one time. UM, and it felt very much in
(02:15):
the same vibe. I would say it had more of
a like potentially hopeful ending, but it was Oh, I
think that would be more intense for me because it's
actually based on a true true events so and of
course it also has Carrie Mulligan U starring in that one.
But yeah, I think I haven't watched that. I have
(02:38):
to gear up to watch things like this for myself.
And I will say at the very front after watching
Promising Young Woman, and he did give me kind of
a heads up because that's what I need. This is
what I'm like, I do like spoilers for things like this.
I still wasn't ready. I did not expect the ending.
I had no idea, just heard that it was not
it doesn't. It does wrap up, but it doesn't, which
(02:59):
we're going talk about in a minute. But because it
was like, put me in that funk, and I'm like,
all right now, I'll watch Turning Red and the and
I watched it back to back because I was like,
I need this immediately, cleanse need to cleanse this mind
right now. I love it. You've got to have those movies.
(03:20):
You've got to have those entertainment things you can go to.
They're like, oh, I'm in a not good place. I
need to get pulled out. I need something else too.
We did. We are going to spoil it. This is
actually a fairly recent movie, even though it feels like
it came out twenty years ago. Just because the pandemic,
it kind of came out the end. I so, yeah,
we are going to spoil it. But I knew how
it ended. I had been spoiled on it. I did
(03:42):
not realize it was going to be such a drawn out, yeah,
brutal thing. But yeah, we will talk about it. But
that was like I knew how it ended. It's still
hurt it was still like, oh okay, yeah, alright, so
let's get into star everybody. Yeah alright, so, um, Promising
(04:05):
Young Woman is a I saw it called thriller. I
guess that's what it would be called. Um it was,
I mean yeah sure. Was co produced, written and directed
by Emerald Finnel, who was with Killing Eve UM, featuring
Carrie Mulligan as Cassie, Bo Burnham as Ryan, Clancy Brown
as Cassie's dad, Stanley, Jennifer Coolidge as Cassie's mom, Susan
(04:27):
Alison breas Madison Laverne Cox's gayle Knyie written as Dean Walker,
with short appearances and cameos by Adam Brody, Christopher Mince
plus Alfred Molina uncredited as that was I was kind
of like, hmm, some big actor, why I know? And
(04:48):
Molly Shannon as Nina's mom. It won Best Original Screenplay
at the ninety three Oscars, and it was nominated in
several of the categories, including Best Picture, Best Director, Best
Act Ris for Carrie Mulligan, and Best Editing, and the
screenplay won several other awards UM and it was generally
highly reviewed. Right So the film follows Cassie a traumatized
(05:12):
woman who dropped out of med school after her best
friend Nina Fisher, killed herself after being raped. The school
never investigated, though it was widely believed fellow student Al
Monroe was her assaulter. Um Cassie now lives with her
worried parents, works at a coffee shop with a friend
Gail and owner I think, And at night she goes
(05:35):
to bars and clubs where this is how it begins.
She pretends to be drunk to meet the nice guys.
And we should put in here the nice guys are
played by who would is truly seen as nice guys
in the acting world. They I know she did this
on purpose by pulling beloved actors, it would be seen
as nice guys or at least like because the guy
(05:59):
yeah MC even maybe he wouldn't be the nice guy
because we've seen him play that other role, but definitely
not threatening yeah type of guy. Uh. And these nice
guys rescue her by taking her home and trying to
have sex with her. And again when they rescue, the
initial is like they're trying to protect from all of
the other fiends. I got you, I got you, You're safe,
(06:20):
which they say a lot. Um despite the fact she's
clearly in abriated and I cannot consent, but on top
of that, gives clear messaging she does not want to
have sex, is confused, is not there? Um. Then she
reveals she's actually sober and confronts them. I thought it
was actually going to go a step further and that
she would come to happen. So no, no, she would
(06:44):
just kind of be like, oh, I'm totally sober, and
they would be terrified, my god, shocked that they just
got discovered for their intent. Yes, yes, es, yes, So
Cassie goes on a date with a past classmate named Ryan,
who was pediatrician. Um doesn't understand why Cassie dropped out,
kind of questions are about it. He reveals that al Uh,
(07:08):
the student who is believed to have raped Nina, is
getting married, and Cassie starts plotting revenge against him and
all of those involved in Nina's rape. So first she
meets up with Um, a one time friend of Cassie Nina's, Madison.
Cassie gets Madison day drunk and Madison continues to maintain
(07:28):
that Nina wasn't raped, that she was a slut who
was drunk half the time basically so sort of be
able like blaming the victim it was her fault. Um.
Cassie hires a man to take a blackout drunk Madison
to a hotel room. Madison can't remember what happens, and
she leaves these upset several upset messages on Cassie's phone
that Cassie ignores. Her next target is Dean Walker. Walker
(07:53):
had dismissed the case Nina's case due to lack of evidence,
and while she remembers Al, doesn't remember Nina and calls
the whole thing unfortunate. Cassie tells the Dean she had
tricked the Dean's daughter, Amber into thinking that Cassie was
a makeup artist for this popular band that Amber really likes,
and she had dropped Amber off in a dorm room
(08:14):
with drunk male students and panicking. The Dean tries to
call Amber, but Cassie has Amber shone. The Dean apologizes
for not taking any action with Nina, and Cassie reveals
she lied in the Amber is safe in a diner
m HM. So while out hunting sleazy men that night,
and by the way, at the beginning, we see a
(08:35):
small notebook where she talies scores of getting after these
men and puts names down so and she calls it
a job as well, I'm doing this. By the way,
she runs into Ryan, which while she's pretending to be
drunk leaving with a dude, and he gets angry with her.
They have a moment and they kind of split. And
he also plays the good guy here, saying he's a
(08:57):
creep the dude who trying to take her home, by
the way. Later Cassie goes to confront Owl's lawyer, Jordan Greene,
who got Nina to drop the charges after essentially harassing,
And here he describes how the firm just pretty much
and how lawyers are taught how to dig through social
(09:17):
media used to be trash um to find revealing clothes,
drunk pictures, uh, and anything to discredit them and call
them a slut and making sure that they are so
ashamed that they will back off suits and back off
cases and that they get money for that. Um. It's
really ugly and it's very telling. Yeah, he says he
(09:38):
regrets his action. Um, and it's taking him a break
from practicing law because of a nervous breakdown. Something happened
and and part of that was the Nina case because
he remembered her clearly, he remembered what happened, and he
knew that she had died by suicide, so there was
a lot to this and he pretty much asked Cassie
to hurt him, like I want you to I need
to pay for this, and instead Cassie forgives him um,
(10:02):
which is something. But to remember, she visits a Nina's
mom who begs her to let it go and move on.
A lot of these things were unsettling, and I know
it was on purpose, and this was one of the
unsettling moments to me. Even though it's supposed to be
kind of like a comfort, it really wasn't. Um. The
dismissiveness of even her mom. You don't want the victim's
(10:23):
mom to be down and like being haunted by it,
but it also seemed callous at the same time, I
don't I don't know um Again, to me, it was
unsettling UM. But she gets tries to get her to
let go. This is kind of the moment that you
see her I think, trying to change her mind. Maybe
this is not a good idea for her plot. She
goes to Ryan and apologizes and they start this wonderful relationship,
(10:47):
both telling each other that they are in love. Um.
She even brings him home to meet the parents, having
awkward parent moments. Everything looks good. Mm hmmm uh. Madison,
still unable to get ahold of Cassie, shows up at
her house desperate to know what happened. After their lunch,
Cassie informs her that nothing happened. Um. Basically, she like
(11:09):
paid this guy to take her to a hotel room
and just like leave her there. Uh. Madison gives Cassie
this old phone that contains a video with Nina's rape
on it, explaining that it got passed around as kind
of a joke, like everyone had seen it. I thought
you had seen it. Um. She urges Cassie not to
watch it and tells her to never contact her again. Um.
(11:33):
Cassie watches the video and it shows Out raping Mina
with a bunch of bystanders, including Ryan, her boyfriend, laughing.
So she confronts him, warning him she'll release the video
if he doesn't tell her where Al is having his
bachelor party. He relents and begs for forgiveness, but she
(11:53):
does not give it to him. She arrives at the
bachelor party dress as a stripper. She drugs Al's friends
and then takes Al to the bedroom, covering him to
the bed and introducing herself as Nina Fisher. And this
freaks out out and he starts trying to escape, saying
that Nina is dead. And this is actually the first
time it's confirmed to the audience, even though I'm pretty
(12:14):
sure the whole time, you're kind of like, yeah, I'm
pretty I think I know what happened. Um, but it's
the first time it's confirmed. She begins to carve Nina's
name onto his stomach that Al escapes and suffocates her
with a pillow. Um. When his friend discovers him the
next morning, they burn Cassie's body, right, and yeah, this
(12:34):
is the part of like, what what what's happening? I
was not ready And also throughout this, every time she
confronts somebody, including Madison, they keep saying, we were kids,
we were kids, we were just playing, um, which we've
heard of that statement, and I'm pretty sure again it
was in relation to the Kavanaugh case mh and after
(13:07):
Cassie's parents filed a missing person's report, which they did
it in a way that seemed like she might just
have run away except for the mom um and and
along with that, the police think, Okay, she's just having
a bad time, so they all chalk it up to
her mental health. Um. And Ryan, who was confronted, also agrees.
(13:30):
Because the nice guy, even though he knows something bad
probably has happened because he knows where she went, He's like, oh, yeah, yeah,
she was mentally off. She was not doing well because
he wanted it to go away. So the nice guy,
once again, it's all about him saving his own ass.
So we come to Al's wedding to this gorgeous woman
who he keeps saying he loves. Please don't tell. Uh.
(13:53):
We suddenly see Ryan getting a text message from Cassie.
During this point, I had to ask my partner. I
was like, wait, can you send schedule messages? I didn't
know that was the thing. Yeah, So he had to
show me how to do that, y'all in the middle,
like right after the movie, because I was like, what, wait,
you can now learning every day? I know something new
(14:16):
every day. Um. And it reveals that she had a
contingency plan in place in case of her death. She
actually sends the phone with Nina's rape to the lawyer
with details about where she was going, if she went missing,
and who did it. She leaves a half heart necklace,
you know, the best friends necklace? Did you have one
of those? I had one of those with her name
(14:38):
on it where Gail would find it, the owner of
the coffee shop. The police find the other half with
Nina's name on it where she was burned. Because it's
all ashes um and then police arrest al at his
wedding and Um Cassie's final texta Ryan is signed from
her and Nina beat dubs. Max Greenfield from New Girl
(14:58):
is in it. He's the one that's kind have been
the catalyst. He was the one that was filming apparently
the great Um. He's the one that helped to call
her a liar and then he helped cover up this murder. Yeah,
he was not. I mean most of them in all
the men, most of the bid in this, but he
(15:20):
was like one of the ones I was like, oh
I cannot stand Yeah. He was purposely that frat boy
that you're supposed to hate. UM. And the whole premise
was that they all went to college together. This all
happened in college Uh, Nina went by herself to this party,
and that's why Cassie feels so guilty. This is why
(15:40):
she apologized her to Nina's mom for and Cassie dropped
out of med school and apparently she was at the
top of the class, so it was Nina and they
both dropped out because of that trauma. Yeah, and that's
like where the title comes from, is the promising young
woman they dropped out and like the dean didn't even
remember the one of them. Yeah, but the men, we've
(16:03):
heard that before, Like the promising young man. We can't
ruin his life, we can't. He's going to be there kids, Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,
Like but he's so good at X y Z, like
we why would we? Why would we punish? And he's
got so much promise and the accusations comes all the time.
(16:23):
None of them really turned out to be anything, which
is very untrue, very very untrue, and that that was
one of the Like, I there's so much about this
that hurts because you've seen it, especially like we've had
these conversations play out and I like our huge news stories,
(16:43):
but when it comes to college campuses, like it's just
sort of a thing that is like maybe not accepted,
but it almost accepted, like yeah, you know, probably you
should be shouldn't wear this, you shouldn't go out this
late at night, shouldn't drink like because this could happen.
Like that's how much we all like no, but don't
(17:06):
really talk about that this happens. But that's also permanently
branded into most women's minds is this could happen, This
did happen, and this is the things that told me
I shouldn't do and I did it, and it's my fault.
And that's how that uh begins. And oftentimes, because we're
(17:28):
already culturally brainwashed by that that we are, we believe
in accept it and instead of understanding, this was not
my fault, this is not our fault, this is not
her fault. Nothing should have that type of consequence. And
nothing that I do that makes myself happy, whether I
do dress the way I want to that day because
I feel good about myself, or the way if I
(17:50):
want to go out to a party because I actually
want to socialize, should not be equal to someone violating me.
And that's that conversation. Instead of hearing that, we believe
it is because people told us that makes sense, right, right,
And and it's just when we did our our episodes
(18:13):
on like rape revenge movies, and I watched a bunch
of them, probably ill advised, but one of the ones
that stuck with me was like they had videos of
what had happened, They had videos of the sexual assault,
and it didn't matter, Like in the end, still no
justice was had. So that's what I was trying to
explain to you. And I was like, it's really really blake.
(18:34):
There was kind of like ends but I couldn't help
but thinking like sure they got this video, but they'd
all seen it and passed around and thought it was
a joke and thought it was funny. Like should probably
still don't get any just right, weirdly enough, side point,
I used to love Friday Night Lights as a show,
(18:55):
which is kind of she plays a school counselor if
none of you know, because this maybe before your time,
and that's fine, it doesn't it didn't age well, don't
watch it. But um, one of the episodes that was
one of the most disturbing episodes for me, and it
involved Connie Britten. And again, she did not write this.
I'm not saying she at all I'm just saying that
(19:17):
she was involved in the acting the way they wrote
the script. There was an episode and they're trying to
talk about drunk drunkenness or whatever. A young cheerleader girl
gets really, really drunk, so drunk that they used her
as a puppet essentially like making fun of her and
have videos and it's just all around. And her reaction
as a counselor is to bring that girl in and
(19:38):
yell at her about why would you do this? Do
you know? Are you not ashamed? Did you learn a lesson?
It could have gotten worse, and it was one of
the most disturbing moments of like what And of course
the boys did get in trouble because the football coach
suspended them, so of course they looked like heroes at
that level. But still to do that was like not
that she didn't need to talk to be talked to,
(20:00):
She needed to be like, hey, are you okay? We
want to make sure okay this is happening, be aware,
blah blah, and yeah, that's a conversation about responsibility for sure,
that that's not a thing. And also drinking at a
young age, Hello, that's the whole different in high school
which was so odd, but like that was one of
the episodes that really bothered me, Like every time when
(20:20):
I watched the scene with Connie Britton in this movie,
that's all I could see and I was like, yeah,
this is not voting well for her. No, no, And
I did read an article about how Carrie Mulligan's character
Castie essentially like cannot forget, cannot forgive, is so like angry,
(20:44):
like you have so many scenes of her, like if
you're just going to ignore what's happening in this world,
I don't know why I should submit to this world anymore,
like this is but but how the women, like we
have all these nice guys who are absolutely asked, but
the women also like Madison and Connie Britton's character Dean
Walker um not supporting other women, and like we've Dean
(21:07):
Walker uses that thing that we've heard so much of,
like because at first she's like, oh, Nina, that's unfortunate,
but al was so successful and like I didn't there's
no proof, like too bad. And then when she thinks
her daughter is in danger, that's when she's like panicking
like oh my gosh, Like it goes from like oh,
(21:28):
that's so unfortunate to this is impacting her directly. And
that's something we hear a lot in these conversations is
when like, well, I have a wife, or I have
a daughter, or I have a mother, and it makes
me so frustrated because it's like, you can't outside of that,
you can't care for anybody outside of that. Well not
that was it. Like again, that was also the character
(21:49):
of Madison putting her in that situation, which, by the way,
I thought that was one of the most disturbing scenes
because of I was like, why would she do this?
She actually setting this woman up to be raped? Oh
my god? It did she just hire someone to nowhere?
Because every time I ever think when a case happens,
we've seen judges do the wrong decisions, we've seen lawyers
defending and all these things, and people have written and
(22:12):
something like what if this happens to your daughter, I'm like,
I would never want to wish that, not even on
my worst enemy, because that is not something to want
to do that. And most of the people are like,
I hope it never happens to you. But it's kind
of a very thinly veiled threat um in defense of others.
And that was kind of one of those moments, and
I was like, this is what is like. I was
(22:32):
getting anxious and angry and upset by that in itself,
and I had a moment of like, please don't do this,
Please don't. This is not what even teaching a lesson.
But again, until the conversation was until she was put
into that position, she could not have empathy even today
(22:53):
for someone who had died due to the situation. Yeah,
it could not see it until she was in that point.
And back to the Connie Britton moment. It literally all
all Cassie had to say was I left your daughter
with this in the same room that the boys are
staying where it used to live with a bunch of boys,
(23:16):
and there seems to be a lot of liquor there,
so good luck. That's all she said. And the dean
knew immediately what could happen to her daughter. So that
was all the implications, which, by the way, that also
was a disturbing scening. I was very upset. I do
not love movies that go after other women in general,
(23:37):
setting up the daughter to be a victim, her calling
her stupid. I know that this is just a movie.
And they had different ways of doing this. And I
also know that Cassie wasn't supposed to be a hero.
You're not you're not supposed to like her, um, But
it bothered me to see that that. There's a lot
of like back and forth about this movie. I was
very hesitant in this movie in general, but like I
(23:58):
get it, it's very heavy ended. Um, as a person
who has gone to trauma, you and myself is a
lot to take in. Even talking about it makes me
little anxious. Um, there's a lot to take in. But
seeing that too ad was an added ouch. Not that's
not reality, not that it can't happen, It just was like,
do we really have to take that extra step though
of like calling a young girl stupid? And I'm sure
(24:21):
it was an added dig because that was said about Nina.
She was dumb forgo doing this. Yeah, yeah, I mean
that's like a lot of the things I read were
you know, she's just so by what happened. She's so
traumatized and so angry that everyone is telling her to
move on and she can't move on and it is
(24:42):
impacting her. Like you see, like pretty much every person
in her life is worried about Cassie, right, it's that
this is not healthy what you are doing. And they
don't even know about like her nighttime right, like your job,
So it's not it's not healthy and people are worried
(25:02):
about her, and I think she just like lashes out
and it's so full of anger about it. Yeah, and
it is like it's heavy handed, but it's also like unfortunate.
How often I was like, yeah, I've heard this before.
It starts pretty like punches flying with these like three
(25:27):
guys on a bar, right, who are like see Cassie
who's acting very very drunk and talking like amongst themselves
like boy talk, like you know, they put themselves in danger.
She's kind of hot just asking for it, like having
this conversation right, well, you know, I would go a
(25:48):
step further the intro with the dancing. You're immediately uncomfortable
because the dancing was interesting us. I don't know if
the choreographer was like, just do some gyrating silly moves
that makes women uncomfortable and go for it. And that's
(26:08):
the focus that we see. We see average men, uh,
trying to be sexy or funny in their drunken state,
um and automatically and definitely put me back to oh yeah,
have seen that and it may be uncomfortable made walk away. Um,
you get that from the shots from the angles. Immediately
that's where you come into to the three guys uh
(26:28):
talking and Brodie being the nice guy trying to rescue
her away from these two my co workers. And it
even begins to have the conversation about a woman who
had told them a concern about the meetings and how
it's going, and all of them saying she's just overreacting.
She just needs to keep up. Like it jumps into
how they already dismissed women in the workplace, except for
(26:51):
Adrian Body, who's like, oh, maybe we should talk to
I'm going to be the good guy. We should She's
not wrong, we should defend her, like trying to overplay
that character. This movie was coming after a lot of people.
I was definitely nice guys. You did not come out
looking good on the other side. Kind of pretty quickly,
(27:12):
as you said, the casting was purposeful about Hollywood nice guys.
But yeah, like that whole like, oh, I'm going to
save her, and then so quickly Brodie's character was like,
what would you like to come to my apartment? Very
very quickly from like oh, I'm going to rescue you
(27:32):
and heavy quotes to actually my apartments right here would
you like to come up? And then more drinks when
she's like acting so wasted um, and then trying to
have sex with her when she clearly cannot consent. I
(28:04):
also think that there are certain things that I I'm
always like I might be just projecting my own stuff
on this, but I feel like her whole relationship with
Ryan um who. I don't know how you felt, Samantha,
but I was immediately like, this is not gonna end. Well,
I don't know why how this guy is not good either.
I didn't predict that he was going to be in
(28:26):
the video. He was a part of it. When she
fought out the video, I was like, oh no, uh huh.
But like the friendships, that idea that like these friendships
are always like like meant to be something else, that
he always just wanted to date her, And like I said,
I believe in platonic like relationships with different genders. But
I feel like a lot of times when we see
this it does feel this way. I've had that experience
(28:48):
a lot, so I thought that was interesting. Uh yeah,
that whole conversation about not wanting to ruin this nice
guy's life. So many of them, like you said, they
had all of these excuses. When they were caught, they
were like, oh, well, but I'm a nice I think
even one of them said that, but I'm a nice guy.
(29:08):
I'm a nice guy. Yeah. The dude who was trying
to get her to do coke, yes, yes, I just
called mccleve and I know that's not his name. Yes,
so tho was one of other things, like the ending
when she like slowly get suffocated. Um. The next day,
(29:28):
al who suffocated her was like it was an accident.
I was like, are you kidding me? You for so long.
At the same time he's saying, you did this. This
is your fault, which stop, stop breathing, stop moving, You
got this, So that's not an accident. No, and it's
like this was That was the part. I was like,
I knew she was going to die. I did not
(29:49):
know it was gonna be so long, and like, that
is not an accident. No, no. And then also the
burning scene with her hands sticking out. I was like,
that's okay, I guess that's just verify as you're seeing
what you're seeing level and that the callousness of that
because they were so ready to just throw her away
(30:10):
and cover it up right, that she mattered so little
as a human in general, and that was the obviously
the intent m h. Of that story, and that her
she kind of expected it was the other part to that. Yeah,
(30:30):
it's disturbing. Um. There was a lot of like especially
with Madison, because Madison was sort of here of the
because they were Madison, Nina and Cassie were friends. Madison
saw this video was the one who is ready to
be like you know, she was sleeping around, she was
getting drunk, like no one's gonna believe you. She had twins.
(30:52):
She was always talking about them. She makes this like
joke to Cassie like, oh, you don't have kids, you'll
get there. Like this whole like one day you'll move
on and you'll be, you know happy is like me
because this is what happiness looks like. Um. So there
was a lot of stuff like that. I did take
note of the whole like ladies Nights, uh, pouring Cassie
(31:14):
a huge drink when she's already drunk. I have always
felt wary of that. That whole idea to me is
like it's basically like you're trying to get more women
into a place, get them drunk so men can pick
them up, right, and that brings them in in though
that is a ploy to bring men. They don't have
problems bring them in like that's I think I sitcom joke.
(31:37):
In order to get men into a bar, you bring
more women. Um, and the only way the way to
get women is to give them drinks are free, free things,
free admission. The same thing with clubs. They do free
admission for women that like they had that until twelve
am free for women like that's and I went to
a couple of those clubs before when I was young,
(31:57):
and it exactly is a hunting ground essentially for predatory men.
Yeah yeah, um. I went to one once where it
was like women four drinks free and it was like
four drinks, four drinks, but it was throughout the movie
of like using alcohol as a weapon. And like obviously
(32:19):
Cassie's whole thing is she pretends to be drunk to
see what like these nice guys, well we'll pick her up.
I did. I went to a ladies night in Hong
Kong and I definitely got something was put in my
drink and I was I was hospitalized. Yeah, I know that. Yeah,
(32:41):
it's it's it hits so quickly, like he I went
from being fine to very much not fine within like
an hour. Um yeah yeah. And it's just frightening because
it's sort of the like we were talking about, like
that's just a threat that you face being out, out
(33:05):
and about in the world. And I definitely had like
because you keep seeing these instances of them trying to
have sex with her when she is, you know, supposed
to be looks very very drunk, like very very drunk.
And I remember once this guy I threw up all
over him and he was still like, I still want
to have sex. I was like, no, I'm good, I'll
(33:29):
be leaving now, thank you. Yeah yeah um. And then
this is also like I don't know that this is true.
I want to I want to stress this, but this
is what the level we're talking about is. There was
a rumor at the school that I went to that
every year this fraternity and it was sort of like notorious,
(33:52):
like that's the not safe one. Don't go to that one.
They would choose a girl and get her really really
drunk and then lock her in this Glass's trophy case
and then the next morning like take pictures and video
of her, and it was sort of like a thing
like you don't want to be the trophy girl, but
like that whole idea of because there's a lot of
(34:13):
the guys in this kind of talk about it like
a game or their laugh about it, and that that
was just like a real thing. But we told each
other on campus. I mean, I'm betting, I'm betting there's
a basis to that for sure, if nothing else. I
don't like recently, and it's a little different today when
(34:33):
we talk about these cases kind of like the ones
that happened for Tanina in this movie, we do see
specific areas or rooms or as you talk, like fraternities
who are known and have a reputation um as recently,
like I've seen TikTok's of students take trying to do
(34:54):
takedowns of specific fraternities because the school would not handle it.
So therefore they would organize protests in front of these
frats um and fraternity and it was It's interesting to
see because I think I saw at least like two
or three different schools where they talked about a specific
organization a specific fraternity, UH fraternal order who was known
(35:15):
for throwing parties where women were constantly date raped, and
therefore they would stage protests um in front of it
because that's all they could do and that was the
only way they could get any kind of attention and
justice for the victims. So it's we don't have much
of that and play other than that's how Cassie stalking
(35:38):
the individuals and their information. But like that's a newer
thing that's having to come by to try to get justice. Recently,
I just saw a tweet from a woman who was
told her case may not make it into even though
she did everything correctly. She immediately reported to the police,
(35:58):
she immediately give evidence, she immediately got an exam all
the things, and because of that, she went to Twitter
and she just named the names and went all the
way down um, and it brought up a huge like
why are you telling us? Why aren't you going to
the police. And then she's like, I did, but nothing
is happening. So here you go, and I want you
(36:19):
to know who this is and i want you to
know what happened to me. And I'm not gonna sit this.
I'll tell you how it's ruining my life and it's
currently ruining my life. Um, and I find it fascinating today,
like as we were talking about how big of a
change social media has made, whether it's good or bad,
but it has because women are starting to with the
(36:39):
me too movement, which is she said, it's starting to
gather a courage from seeing others speak out. But I
found that fascinating too, like the differences in this and
whether or not they could have turned to that route
about social media, which I thought would be what was
going to happen about that tape, To be honest, I
thought she was gonna post it. Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah.
(37:04):
We've talked about that in the power of those movements
on on social media and things like Twitter, where it's
probably it's impacted to you whether you use it or not,
but it is. It's just such a shame that that's
like what it takes, and that that like because it's
not easy to share that stuff. Yeah. I it's a huge,
(37:28):
powerful movement, but I hate that it requires kind of
just like, well, none of these other things have worked.
So here's my story, um, and hopefully it will prevent
prevent it from happening to you. At this place or
or what have you. I mean that's the other part
is that are naming names so women will be aware
who did it. Yeah, yeah, Um, my favorite right now
(37:52):
is them finding Brock Turner and blasting it every time
he tries to go somewhere how he changed his name
or changes their parents. Women are like, hey, Rock Turner
is in this area, be aware. I love it there.
This is that case and Brett Kavanell, we're definitely shining
through the story and this one, I would say, Um,
(38:12):
one of the lines that stuck out to me, and
we've all we've heard variations of the sign was you know,
it's every guy's worst nightmare getting accused like that, which
is what Al says and Cassie says back, can you
guess what every woman's worst nightmare is? But yeah, that
that like very clear stark gender difference. I thought it
was also pretty telling, as you were saying earlier, like
when Dean Walker, immediately it's like, oh, this is dangerous.
(38:36):
My daughter is in this room. There's alcoholin men, and
Cassie has a comment about like, oh, she's safer than
we were at your school, like your daughter is. But
also the whole idea of yeah, like dropping out from
med school after to his experience losing women in our
workforce or whatever it is, or losing lives because of
(38:56):
this trauma, because it's going ignored or even mocked, and
then you know, like trying to paint the picture of
who was lost, because so many times I feel like
it's like, oh, well, another statistic sexual assault is bad,
and we forget who the victim is and like our
the survivor is. And you see that throughout this of
Cassie trying to be like, remember Nina, Nina did this,
(39:16):
and she was like this and she was this was
so much and we've lost her because of this, So
that was there. It's like, it's strange for me to
say I did write down friendship because you know, Cassie
and Nina were very close, but we never see their friendship.
We just kind of hear about it, and we see
what Cassie does in her name, I don't know. You
(39:40):
also see that they've been together for so long and
the guilt of her not being with Nina holds her
like not only of course her death is going to
affect her, but she blames herself for letting her be
in that situation, or like not being with her to
get her out of that situation. Mm hmmm. Yeah, it's
like the kind of like ripple effects of those traumatic
(40:02):
of its of how it impacts people in your life. Um,
and I did wanna before we talk about the India
real quick, I did want to bring up something else
that I had forgotten about that you reminded me of.
Was when Carrie Mulligan was cast. There was all this
like backlash of oh, she's not hot enough for this role,
right right. It was such an absurd conversation because they
were like, someone like Margot Robbie, she's the one that
(40:23):
should be doing this. And it was during this time
I remember Carrie Mulligan came out and spoke out about
it and had a whole article written about it because
someone like articles were written that she was not pretty
enough and she could not get away with this, which
is a whole different conversation. I'm like, mm hmm, it
doesn't take much to get men into these positions. And
(40:46):
I'm not trying to be gallas or I'm not trying
to be insulting. It really is about a lot of
a lot of the in this specific line of going
to a club to meet a woman to go and
spend the night with. I'm sorry, Like, I think it's
just such a funny level of comparison, Like have you
not known normal, not Hollywood women going home with people?
(41:12):
But this also is the same damn narrative she wasn't
pretty enough, why would she be raped? Kind of, but
beside the point that Kay Mulligan is a Oscar winning
Hollywood actress, gorgeous Hollywood actress who has played leading ladies
for a while, So it's such an absurdity to me
(41:33):
that they had to be like she has to be
a blonde bombshell to play this character, which is just
essentially taking men home while they're drunk, or being taken
home by men who want to dunk inebriated, unconscious woman
half the time for their physical purpose. Like it's just
it's kind of like, what do you think this is?
I don't understand. There's so many things in this narrative
(41:57):
that is so insulting to every woman in general and
also every victim in general that it just bems so
ridiculous that that was the critique to this movie. Mm hmmm, Yeah,
that is a disgusting, harmful narrative. Um, and we've talked
(42:18):
about it before on the show, So Ryan check that out.
And then yeah, just to briefly talk about the ending,
because this was the big thing everybody kept kind of
(42:38):
hinting at. For me, it was like, holy ending, it is.
It's really rough. M I think this scene like how
quickly Al and his friend to go from like oh,
she's dead. Oh, this is not your fault. It's okay. Uh,
let's just burn the body and no, everyone will forget
about her. Yeah. He keeps saying always snicker fault. You're
(43:01):
gonna be fine. And you know, Al thinks, oh, I'm
going to have this happy life. I'm gonna get married.
No one's gonna know about it, um, because he's counting on.
Like nobody investigated with Nina, Um, it would investigate this person.
And so it was kind of like, you know, it's
still like a dark, grim ending. It was pretty satisfying
(43:22):
that you get arrested at his wedding. I was hoping
more people would get arrested, right. I also talked about
the wedding ceremony of the white people doing that, and
I know it was a joke and it was a
play on I think it's a play on crunchy, theunchy
crunchy movement. I don't know if you know what that is. Um,
(43:44):
the TikTok level, that's what I how I know it.
But I'm thinking that's what that is. The white women
doing a drum session. All right, I know this was
and it was like it was such a blak moment
to laugh. What is happening? What is happening? Am I
supposed to laugh here? Because I don't want to laugh
(44:04):
right now? Um? But that's what we see. And and
then she him getting arrested. And also I think there's
also that conversation and maybe reading too much into it
because when Al says the stripper is dead, he never
says who she is, So Joe doesn't know who she is,
and he's like, she's just a stripper. No one's going
to know, right, not realizing who she was. And I
(44:27):
don't know if it's ever so said to him, like
we know Al knows, we Al knows that he knows Nina.
He doesn't know who she is. Oh, no, he does know,
because she said you don't remember me. He's like I
missed him, not been on your radar or whatever? Oh
you do remember me after he says you're Nina's friend, Um,
but he never says that to Joe, And I think
(44:48):
that's the huge dismissiveness and other levels like the talking
about sex work and what we need to talk about
and how invisible they can be treated and dismissed us
human as well. So there's so many under lying things
to that. Again, I'm maybe waiting too much into it,
but I think there's that conversation too, and men empower
(45:09):
dismissing women in specific employments or careers and therefore feeling
like they can and they are untouchable and they have
the right to dismiss them as such. Yeah, that was
I definitely got that same vibe. Um, Like how quickly
(45:30):
they were like, oh, let's just burn the body like that. Oof.
It's like he didn't even think too, Like that was
like the first things like Oh, let's just burn the
body because it doesn't matter, she doesn't matter. Yeah, and
also like I know this wasn't really the point, but
I did. It did crack me up how quickly they
(45:50):
went from did anybody order a stripper? Two? Oh, it's
a stripper, who cares, We don't care who ordered? Like whatever, Okay,
she feeling let's go yes, And then I did I
want to touch on really briefly, um, that whole thing
at the end where everybody's kind of blaming Cassie's mental
health and like I said, like she for her disappearance,
(46:12):
like oh, she wasn't doing well, um whatever, But it
felt like the cops were so ready to be like yeah,
I was just mark it off the list. She wasn't
doing well, right, um, kind of these leading questions and
like I said, like, she isn't doing well. But I
think that was part of the point, was everybody kept
telling her to move on from this like horrific thing,
(46:35):
and she couldn't. And she was like I couldn't just
ignore that this had happened or ignore that this is
the world we live in and she's getting told like
that's just how it is, and she couldn't. And so I, um,
I thought that was interesting. I read a couple of
articles about about that and how like they were so
(46:57):
quick to blame the mental health, but they would just
so readily like, but this actually happened, and this was
an issue, and of course just stremtized from it. Yeah.
I think in that regards and We talked about this
in previous episodes. UM. I think when I first started,
when we see people using mental health and weaponizing mental
(47:20):
health when it comes to the gender differences, they blame
mental health for women's downfall, while they blame mental health
for a man who is violent and are hurting others.
So it's such a whole different level of who is
doing what UM to the same effect, like, well, if
you're saying that he is mentally unstabled, that's why he
(47:43):
gunned down an entire school, and that's the excuse, so
we should we should forgive him or something as to where, well,
this woman died or got killed because she was not healthy.
Wait what Like it's just it's the opposite effect in
what we see in this conversation UM and what we
use and weaponize and how we weaponize it, whether it's
(48:04):
for or against UM. And it's it's very interesting conversation
because one is an excuse and one's the reason, and
it's kind of that level of Uh, here we go again.
We see this happen all the time, and this is
a prime example of this, and we've seen that with
them missing and murdered Indigenous women, UM that oftentimes their
(48:26):
mental health or its drug uses involved, or anything that
they can scrape up to say this is why she
she's gone and it's her fault, instead of finding a
reason that to or instead of finding the fact that
she's a victim here and we need to do everything
we can do to find them. Is that same stark
(48:47):
difference here to me as well? Um. I also wanted
to point out when they were talking to uh Bo
Burnham's character Ryan Um, they kept thanking him. Honestly, you
can't be blind to me. You're such an ouderstanding citizen.
You're doing such a great job. Oh yeah, she was
so mentally off, almost like thanking him for caring for
her those levels, like he was doing this out of petty,
(49:09):
but there's so many things to that level, like oh
my god, what mm hmm. Yeah, it was like he
used the victim for having to put up with her
and her issues and heavy quotes. But yeah, you're so right,
because when it's women, it's your fault all of these things,
the mental health, to the drugs, whatever it is. With men,
(49:33):
we're much more likely like, well, it's not he's fault.
It's like everybody else's fault. But not is that's what's
playing out the sexual assault too, Whereas and said, they're
essentially telling her to move on, to accept that this
is the world we live in, we can't do any better,
and she's so angry about it rightfully. Yeah, yeah, I
(49:54):
mean a lot to talk about, for sure. It is
a rough one. I recommend it, but be in the
right mind space, prepare yourself, get your healing movie after
the comedy. I don't think I immediately texted you like
I have to watch a romantic comedy or something now.
Thank you do the listeners, and we always love your
suggestions and thank you, but yes, I'm just kind of
(50:15):
mad at you, all right, yes, yes, thank you for
sending those suggestions. Thanks to everybody who suggested this. If
you would like to send us more suggestions, or if
you have any thoughts about this, you can email us
Stephane your mom stuff at iHeart media dot com. You
find us on Twitter at moms of podcast, or on
Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've Never told you. Thanks
(50:36):
as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you, Christina,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never told you.
Protection by Heart Radio for more podcast for my heart Radio.
You can check out the heart Radio Apple podcast to
ready listen to your favorite shops.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't goin a
Stephane never told you production of I Heart Radio. And
it is time for our first feminist movie Friday, and
I think it is coming out on Friday of This
(00:26):
one has been much much requested. And I blame all
of you for my trauma. You held that. I blame
the people who I'm just kidding. It was a movie
we should have watched, but I'm traumatized. Thank you very much.
It was quite traumatizing. We were talking about promising young
woman and I remember I had been meaning to watch it.
(00:48):
I knew it was going to be a rough one.
I knew generally how it ended, and I was like
preparing myself to watch it and it was still pretty yeah,
pretty rough. So go ahead and put content warning here.
It is a dramatic movie and it does involve sexual assault, rape, suicide, death, um, murder,
(01:12):
all of that. Yeah, And just like a general again,
if you if you know anybody who's experienced sexual assault
or you've been through it, I mean even just being
like a woman in this world. It's not an easy
easy watch. Um. And we are going to talk about
(01:33):
some of this stuff, and I think, um, I'm going
to share some personal stuff, but it's not like I
don't think we're gonna get like two and dope. But yeah,
it is a rough one you're speaking of. You can
see our Rape Revenge episodes for more about this. UM.
(01:53):
And yeah, a lot of listeners did request this one,
so we do take your requests. We have a list.
Don't never fear, never fear, I'm met at you, though
I did want to throw in. I watched she said
he was not currently a sponsor, but was a sponsor
at one time. UM, and it felt very much in
(02:15):
the same vibe. I would say it had more of
a like potentially hopeful ending, but it was Oh, I
think that would be more intense for me because it's
actually based on a true true events so and of
course it also has Carrie Mulligan U starring in that one.
But yeah, I think I haven't watched that. I have
(02:38):
to gear up to watch things like this for myself.
And I will say at the very front after watching
Promising Young Woman, and he did give me kind of
a heads up because that's what I need. This is
what I'm like, I do like spoilers for things like this.
I still wasn't ready. I did not expect the ending.
I had no idea, just heard that it was not
it doesn't. It does wrap up, but it doesn't, which
(02:59):
we're going talk about in a minute. But because it
was like, put me in that funk, and I'm like,
all right now, I'll watch Turning Red and the and
I watched it back to back because I was like,
I need this immediately, cleanse need to cleanse this mind
right now. I love it. You've got to have those movies.
(03:20):
You've got to have those entertainment things you can go to.
They're like, oh, I'm in a not good place. I
need to get pulled out. I need something else too.
We did. We are going to spoil it. This is
actually a fairly recent movie, even though it feels like
it came out twenty years ago. Just because the pandemic,
it kind of came out the end. I so, yeah,
we are going to spoil it. But I knew how
it ended. I had been spoiled on it. I did
(03:42):
not realize it was going to be such a drawn out, yeah,
brutal thing. But yeah, we will talk about it. But
that was like I knew how it ended. It's still
hurt it was still like, oh okay, yeah, alright, so
let's get into star everybody. Yeah alright, so, um, Promising
(04:05):
Young Woman is a I saw it called thriller. I
guess that's what it would be called. Um it was,
I mean yeah sure. Was co produced, written and directed
by Emerald Finnel, who was with Killing Eve UM, featuring
Carrie Mulligan as Cassie, Bo Burnham as Ryan, Clancy Brown
as Cassie's dad, Stanley, Jennifer Coolidge as Cassie's mom, Susan
(04:27):
Alison breas Madison Laverne Cox's gayle Knyie written as Dean Walker,
with short appearances and cameos by Adam Brody, Christopher Mince
plus Alfred Molina uncredited as that was I was kind
of like, hmm, some big actor, why I know? And
(04:48):
Molly Shannon as Nina's mom. It won Best Original Screenplay
at the ninety three Oscars, and it was nominated in
several of the categories, including Best Picture, Best Director, Best
Act Ris for Carrie Mulligan, and Best Editing, and the
screenplay won several other awards UM and it was generally
highly reviewed. Right So the film follows Cassie a traumatized
(05:12):
woman who dropped out of med school after her best
friend Nina Fisher, killed herself after being raped. The school
never investigated, though it was widely believed fellow student Al
Monroe was her assaulter. Um Cassie now lives with her
worried parents, works at a coffee shop with a friend
Gail and owner I think, And at night she goes
(05:35):
to bars and clubs where this is how it begins.
She pretends to be drunk to meet the nice guys.
And we should put in here the nice guys are
played by who would is truly seen as nice guys
in the acting world. They I know she did this
on purpose by pulling beloved actors, it would be seen
as nice guys or at least like because the guy
(05:59):
yeah MC even maybe he wouldn't be the nice guy
because we've seen him play that other role, but definitely
not threatening yeah type of guy. Uh. And these nice
guys rescue her by taking her home and trying to
have sex with her. And again when they rescue, the
initial is like they're trying to protect from all of
the other fiends. I got you, I got you, You're safe,
(06:20):
which they say a lot. Um despite the fact she's
clearly in abriated and I cannot consent, but on top
of that, gives clear messaging she does not want to
have sex, is confused, is not there? Um. Then she
reveals she's actually sober and confronts them. I thought it
was actually going to go a step further and that
she would come to happen. So no, no, she would
(06:44):
just kind of be like, oh, I'm totally sober, and
they would be terrified, my god, shocked that they just
got discovered for their intent. Yes, yes, es, yes, So
Cassie goes on a date with a past classmate named Ryan,
who was pediatrician. Um doesn't understand why Cassie dropped out,
kind of questions are about it. He reveals that al Uh,
(07:08):
the student who is believed to have raped Nina, is
getting married, and Cassie starts plotting revenge against him and
all of those involved in Nina's rape. So first she
meets up with Um, a one time friend of Cassie Nina's, Madison.
Cassie gets Madison day drunk and Madison continues to maintain
(07:28):
that Nina wasn't raped, that she was a slut who
was drunk half the time basically so sort of be
able like blaming the victim it was her fault. Um.
Cassie hires a man to take a blackout drunk Madison
to a hotel room. Madison can't remember what happens, and
she leaves these upset several upset messages on Cassie's phone
that Cassie ignores. Her next target is Dean Walker. Walker
(07:53):
had dismissed the case Nina's case due to lack of evidence,
and while she remembers Al, doesn't remember Nina and calls
the whole thing unfortunate. Cassie tells the Dean she had
tricked the Dean's daughter, Amber into thinking that Cassie was
a makeup artist for this popular band that Amber really likes,
and she had dropped Amber off in a dorm room
(08:14):
with drunk male students and panicking. The Dean tries to
call Amber, but Cassie has Amber shone. The Dean apologizes
for not taking any action with Nina, and Cassie reveals
she lied in the Amber is safe in a diner
m HM. So while out hunting sleazy men that night,
and by the way, at the beginning, we see a
(08:35):
small notebook where she talies scores of getting after these
men and puts names down so and she calls it
a job as well, I'm doing this. By the way,
she runs into Ryan, which while she's pretending to be
drunk leaving with a dude, and he gets angry with her.
They have a moment and they kind of split. And
he also plays the good guy here, saying he's a
(08:57):
creep the dude who trying to take her home, by
the way. Later Cassie goes to confront Owl's lawyer, Jordan Greene,
who got Nina to drop the charges after essentially harassing,
And here he describes how the firm just pretty much
and how lawyers are taught how to dig through social
(09:17):
media used to be trash um to find revealing clothes,
drunk pictures, uh, and anything to discredit them and call
them a slut and making sure that they are so
ashamed that they will back off suits and back off
cases and that they get money for that. Um. It's
really ugly and it's very telling. Yeah, he says he
(09:38):
regrets his action. Um, and it's taking him a break
from practicing law because of a nervous breakdown. Something happened
and and part of that was the Nina case because
he remembered her clearly, he remembered what happened, and he
knew that she had died by suicide, so there was
a lot to this and he pretty much asked Cassie
to hurt him, like I want you to I need
to pay for this, and instead Cassie forgives him um,
(10:02):
which is something. But to remember, she visits a Nina's
mom who begs her to let it go and move on.
A lot of these things were unsettling, and I know
it was on purpose, and this was one of the
unsettling moments to me. Even though it's supposed to be
kind of like a comfort, it really wasn't. Um. The
dismissiveness of even her mom. You don't want the victim's
(10:23):
mom to be down and like being haunted by it,
but it also seemed callous at the same time, I
don't I don't know um Again, to me, it was
unsettling UM. But she gets tries to get her to
let go. This is kind of the moment that you
see her I think, trying to change her mind. Maybe
this is not a good idea for her plot. She
goes to Ryan and apologizes and they start this wonderful relationship,
(10:47):
both telling each other that they are in love. Um.
She even brings him home to meet the parents, having
awkward parent moments. Everything looks good. Mm hmmm uh. Madison,
still unable to get ahold of Cassie, shows up at
her house desperate to know what happened. After their lunch,
Cassie informs her that nothing happened. Um. Basically, she like
(11:09):
paid this guy to take her to a hotel room
and just like leave her there. Uh. Madison gives Cassie
this old phone that contains a video with Nina's rape
on it, explaining that it got passed around as kind
of a joke, like everyone had seen it. I thought
you had seen it. Um. She urges Cassie not to
watch it and tells her to never contact her again. Um.
(11:33):
Cassie watches the video and it shows Out raping Mina
with a bunch of bystanders, including Ryan, her boyfriend, laughing.
So she confronts him, warning him she'll release the video
if he doesn't tell her where Al is having his
bachelor party. He relents and begs for forgiveness, but she
(11:53):
does not give it to him. She arrives at the
bachelor party dress as a stripper. She drugs Al's friends
and then takes Al to the bedroom, covering him to
the bed and introducing herself as Nina Fisher. And this
freaks out out and he starts trying to escape, saying
that Nina is dead. And this is actually the first
time it's confirmed to the audience, even though I'm pretty
(12:14):
sure the whole time, you're kind of like, yeah, I'm
pretty I think I know what happened. Um, but it's
the first time it's confirmed. She begins to carve Nina's
name onto his stomach that Al escapes and suffocates her
with a pillow. Um. When his friend discovers him the
next morning, they burn Cassie's body, right, and yeah, this
(12:34):
is the part of like, what what what's happening? I
was not ready And also throughout this, every time she
confronts somebody, including Madison, they keep saying, we were kids,
we were kids, we were just playing, um, which we've
heard of that statement, and I'm pretty sure again it
was in relation to the Kavanaugh case mh and after
(13:07):
Cassie's parents filed a missing person's report, which they did
it in a way that seemed like she might just
have run away except for the mom um and and
along with that, the police think, Okay, she's just having
a bad time, so they all chalk it up to
her mental health. Um. And Ryan, who was confronted, also agrees.
(13:30):
Because the nice guy, even though he knows something bad
probably has happened because he knows where she went, He's like, oh, yeah, yeah,
she was mentally off. She was not doing well because
he wanted it to go away. So the nice guy,
once again, it's all about him saving his own ass.
So we come to Al's wedding to this gorgeous woman
who he keeps saying he loves. Please don't tell. Uh.
(13:53):
We suddenly see Ryan getting a text message from Cassie.
During this point, I had to ask my partner. I
was like, wait, can you send schedule messages? I didn't
know that was the thing. Yeah, So he had to
show me how to do that, y'all in the middle,
like right after the movie, because I was like, what, wait,
you can now learning every day? I know something new
(14:16):
every day. Um. And it reveals that she had a
contingency plan in place in case of her death. She
actually sends the phone with Nina's rape to the lawyer
with details about where she was going, if she went missing,
and who did it. She leaves a half heart necklace,
you know, the best friends necklace? Did you have one
of those? I had one of those with her name
(14:38):
on it where Gail would find it, the owner of
the coffee shop. The police find the other half with
Nina's name on it where she was burned. Because it's
all ashes um and then police arrest al at his
wedding and Um Cassie's final texta Ryan is signed from
her and Nina beat dubs. Max Greenfield from New Girl
(14:58):
is in it. He's the one that's kind have been
the catalyst. He was the one that was filming apparently
the great Um. He's the one that helped to call
her a liar and then he helped cover up this murder. Yeah,
he was not. I mean most of them in all
the men, most of the bid in this, but he
(15:20):
was like one of the ones I was like, oh
I cannot stand Yeah. He was purposely that frat boy
that you're supposed to hate. UM. And the whole premise
was that they all went to college together. This all
happened in college Uh, Nina went by herself to this party,
and that's why Cassie feels so guilty. This is why
(15:40):
she apologized her to Nina's mom for and Cassie dropped
out of med school and apparently she was at the
top of the class, so it was Nina and they
both dropped out because of that trauma. Yeah, and that's
like where the title comes from, is the promising young
woman they dropped out and like the dean didn't even
remember the one of them. Yeah, but the men, we've
(16:03):
heard that before, Like the promising young man. We can't
ruin his life, we can't. He's going to be there kids, Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,
Like but he's so good at X y Z, like
we why would we? Why would we punish? And he's
got so much promise and the accusations comes all the time.
(16:23):
None of them really turned out to be anything, which
is very untrue, very very untrue, and that that was
one of the Like, I there's so much about this
that hurts because you've seen it, especially like we've had
these conversations play out and I like our huge news stories,
(16:43):
but when it comes to college campuses, like it's just
sort of a thing that is like maybe not accepted,
but it almost accepted, like yeah, you know, probably you
should be shouldn't wear this, you shouldn't go out this
late at night, shouldn't drink like because this could happen.
Like that's how much we all like no, but don't
(17:06):
really talk about that this happens. But that's also permanently
branded into most women's minds is this could happen, This
did happen, and this is the things that told me
I shouldn't do and I did it, and it's my fault.
And that's how that uh begins. And oftentimes, because we're
(17:28):
already culturally brainwashed by that that we are, we believe
in accept it and instead of understanding, this was not
my fault, this is not our fault, this is not
her fault. Nothing should have that type of consequence. And
nothing that I do that makes myself happy, whether I
do dress the way I want to that day because
I feel good about myself, or the way if I
(17:50):
want to go out to a party because I actually
want to socialize, should not be equal to someone violating me.
And that's that conversation. Instead of hearing that, we believe
it is because people told us that makes sense, right, right,
And and it's just when we did our our episodes
(18:13):
on like rape revenge movies, and I watched a bunch
of them, probably ill advised, but one of the ones
that stuck with me was like they had videos of
what had happened, They had videos of the sexual assault,
and it didn't matter, Like in the end, still no
justice was had. So that's what I was trying to
explain to you. And I was like, it's really really blake.
(18:34):
There was kind of like ends but I couldn't help
but thinking like sure they got this video, but they'd
all seen it and passed around and thought it was
a joke and thought it was funny. Like should probably
still don't get any just right, weirdly enough, side point,
I used to love Friday Night Lights as a show,
(18:55):
which is kind of she plays a school counselor if
none of you know, because this maybe before your time,
and that's fine, it doesn't it didn't age well, don't
watch it. But um, one of the episodes that was
one of the most disturbing episodes for me, and it
involved Connie Britten. And again, she did not write this.
I'm not saying she at all I'm just saying that
(19:17):
she was involved in the acting the way they wrote
the script. There was an episode and they're trying to
talk about drunk drunkenness or whatever. A young cheerleader girl
gets really, really drunk, so drunk that they used her
as a puppet essentially like making fun of her and
have videos and it's just all around. And her reaction
as a counselor is to bring that girl in and
(19:38):
yell at her about why would you do this? Do
you know? Are you not ashamed? Did you learn a lesson?
It could have gotten worse, and it was one of
the most disturbing moments of like what And of course
the boys did get in trouble because the football coach
suspended them, so of course they looked like heroes at
that level. But still to do that was like not
that she didn't need to talk to be talked to,
(20:00):
She needed to be like, hey, are you okay? We
want to make sure okay this is happening, be aware,
blah blah, and yeah, that's a conversation about responsibility for sure,
that that's not a thing. And also drinking at a
young age, Hello, that's the whole different in high school
which was so odd, but like that was one of
the episodes that really bothered me, Like every time when
(20:20):
I watched the scene with Connie Britton in this movie,
that's all I could see and I was like, yeah,
this is not voting well for her. No, no, And
I did read an article about how Carrie Mulligan's character
Castie essentially like cannot forget, cannot forgive, is so like angry,
(20:44):
like you have so many scenes of her, like if
you're just going to ignore what's happening in this world,
I don't know why I should submit to this world anymore,
like this is but but how the women, like we
have all these nice guys who are absolutely asked, but
the women also like Madison and Connie Britton's character Dean
Walker um not supporting other women, and like we've Dean
(21:07):
Walker uses that thing that we've heard so much of,
like because at first she's like, oh, Nina, that's unfortunate,
but al was so successful and like I didn't there's
no proof, like too bad. And then when she thinks
her daughter is in danger, that's when she's like panicking
like oh my gosh, Like it goes from like oh,
(21:28):
that's so unfortunate to this is impacting her directly. And
that's something we hear a lot in these conversations is
when like, well, I have a wife, or I have
a daughter, or I have a mother, and it makes
me so frustrated because it's like, you can't outside of that,
you can't care for anybody outside of that. Well not
that was it. Like again, that was also the character
(21:49):
of Madison putting her in that situation, which, by the way,
I thought that was one of the most disturbing scenes
because of I was like, why would she do this?
She actually setting this woman up to be raped? Oh
my god? It did she just hire someone to nowhere?
Because every time I ever think when a case happens,
we've seen judges do the wrong decisions, we've seen lawyers
defending and all these things, and people have written and
(22:12):
something like what if this happens to your daughter, I'm like,
I would never want to wish that, not even on
my worst enemy, because that is not something to want
to do that. And most of the people are like,
I hope it never happens to you. But it's kind
of a very thinly veiled threat um in defense of others.
And that was kind of one of those moments, and
I was like, this is what is like. I was
(22:32):
getting anxious and angry and upset by that in itself,
and I had a moment of like, please don't do this,
Please don't. This is not what even teaching a lesson.
But again, until the conversation was until she was put
into that position, she could not have empathy even today
(22:53):
for someone who had died due to the situation. Yeah,
it could not see it until she was in that point.
And back to the Connie Britton moment. It literally all
all Cassie had to say was I left your daughter
with this in the same room that the boys are
staying where it used to live with a bunch of boys,
(23:16):
and there seems to be a lot of liquor there,
so good luck. That's all she said. And the dean
knew immediately what could happen to her daughter. So that
was all the implications, which, by the way, that also
was a disturbing scening. I was very upset. I do
not love movies that go after other women in general,
(23:37):
setting up the daughter to be a victim, her calling
her stupid. I know that this is just a movie.
And they had different ways of doing this. And I
also know that Cassie wasn't supposed to be a hero.
You're not you're not supposed to like her, um, But
it bothered me to see that that. There's a lot
of like back and forth about this movie. I was
very hesitant in this movie in general, but like I
(23:58):
get it, it's very heavy ended. Um, as a person
who has gone to trauma, you and myself is a
lot to take in. Even talking about it makes me
little anxious. Um, there's a lot to take in. But
seeing that too ad was an added ouch. Not that's
not reality, not that it can't happen, It just was like,
do we really have to take that extra step though
of like calling a young girl stupid? And I'm sure
(24:21):
it was an added dig because that was said about Nina.
She was dumb forgo doing this. Yeah, yeah, I mean
that's like a lot of the things I read were
you know, she's just so by what happened. She's so
traumatized and so angry that everyone is telling her to
move on and she can't move on and it is
(24:42):
impacting her. Like you see, like pretty much every person
in her life is worried about Cassie, right, it's that
this is not healthy what you are doing. And they
don't even know about like her nighttime right, like your job,
So it's not it's not healthy and people are worried
(25:02):
about her, and I think she just like lashes out
and it's so full of anger about it. Yeah, and
it is like it's heavy handed, but it's also like unfortunate.
How often I was like, yeah, I've heard this before.
It starts pretty like punches flying with these like three
(25:27):
guys on a bar, right, who are like see Cassie
who's acting very very drunk and talking like amongst themselves
like boy talk, like you know, they put themselves in danger.
She's kind of hot just asking for it, like having
this conversation right, well, you know, I would go a
(25:48):
step further the intro with the dancing. You're immediately uncomfortable
because the dancing was interesting us. I don't know if
the choreographer was like, just do some gyrating silly moves
that makes women uncomfortable and go for it. And that's
(26:08):
the focus that we see. We see average men, uh,
trying to be sexy or funny in their drunken state,
um and automatically and definitely put me back to oh yeah,
have seen that and it may be uncomfortable made walk away. Um,
you get that from the shots from the angles. Immediately
that's where you come into to the three guys uh
(26:28):
talking and Brodie being the nice guy trying to rescue
her away from these two my co workers. And it
even begins to have the conversation about a woman who
had told them a concern about the meetings and how
it's going, and all of them saying she's just overreacting.
She just needs to keep up. Like it jumps into
how they already dismissed women in the workplace, except for
(26:51):
Adrian Body, who's like, oh, maybe we should talk to
I'm going to be the good guy. We should She's
not wrong, we should defend her, like trying to overplay
that character. This movie was coming after a lot of people.
I was definitely nice guys. You did not come out
looking good on the other side. Kind of pretty quickly,
(27:12):
as you said, the casting was purposeful about Hollywood nice guys.
But yeah, like that whole like, oh, I'm going to
save her, and then so quickly Brodie's character was like,
what would you like to come to my apartment? Very
very quickly from like oh, I'm going to rescue you
(27:32):
and heavy quotes to actually my apartments right here would
you like to come up? And then more drinks when
she's like acting so wasted um, and then trying to
have sex with her when she clearly cannot consent. I
(28:04):
also think that there are certain things that I I'm
always like I might be just projecting my own stuff
on this, but I feel like her whole relationship with
Ryan um who. I don't know how you felt, Samantha,
but I was immediately like, this is not gonna end. Well,
I don't know why how this guy is not good either.
I didn't predict that he was going to be in
(28:26):
the video. He was a part of it. When she
fought out the video, I was like, oh no, uh huh.
But like the friendships, that idea that like these friendships
are always like like meant to be something else, that
he always just wanted to date her, And like I said,
I believe in platonic like relationships with different genders. But
I feel like a lot of times when we see
this it does feel this way. I've had that experience
(28:48):
a lot, so I thought that was interesting. Uh yeah,
that whole conversation about not wanting to ruin this nice
guy's life. So many of them, like you said, they
had all of these excuses. When they were caught, they
were like, oh, well, but I'm a nice I think
even one of them said that, but I'm a nice guy.
(29:08):
I'm a nice guy. Yeah. The dude who was trying
to get her to do coke, yes, yes, I just
called mccleve and I know that's not his name. Yes,
so tho was one of other things, like the ending
when she like slowly get suffocated. Um. The next day,
(29:28):
al who suffocated her was like it was an accident.
I was like, are you kidding me? You for so long.
At the same time he's saying, you did this. This
is your fault, which stop, stop breathing, stop moving, You
got this, So that's not an accident. No, and it's
like this was That was the part. I was like,
I knew she was going to die. I did not
(29:49):
know it was gonna be so long, and like, that
is not an accident. No, no. And then also the
burning scene with her hands sticking out. I was like,
that's okay, I guess that's just verify as you're seeing
what you're seeing level and that the callousness of that
because they were so ready to just throw her away
(30:10):
and cover it up right, that she mattered so little
as a human in general, and that was the obviously
the intent m h. Of that story, and that her
she kind of expected it was the other part to that. Yeah,
(30:30):
it's disturbing. Um. There was a lot of like especially
with Madison, because Madison was sort of here of the
because they were Madison, Nina and Cassie were friends. Madison
saw this video was the one who is ready to
be like you know, she was sleeping around, she was
getting drunk, like no one's gonna believe you. She had twins.
(30:52):
She was always talking about them. She makes this like
joke to Cassie like, oh, you don't have kids, you'll
get there. Like this whole like one day you'll move
on and you'll be, you know happy is like me
because this is what happiness looks like. Um. So there
was a lot of stuff like that. I did take
note of the whole like ladies Nights, uh, pouring Cassie
(31:14):
a huge drink when she's already drunk. I have always
felt wary of that. That whole idea to me is
like it's basically like you're trying to get more women
into a place, get them drunk so men can pick
them up, right, and that brings them in in though
that is a ploy to bring men. They don't have
problems bring them in like that's I think I sitcom joke.
(31:37):
In order to get men into a bar, you bring
more women. Um, and the only way the way to
get women is to give them drinks are free, free things,
free admission. The same thing with clubs. They do free
admission for women that like they had that until twelve
am free for women like that's and I went to
a couple of those clubs before when I was young,
(31:57):
and it exactly is a hunting ground essentially for predatory men.
Yeah yeah, um. I went to one once where it
was like women four drinks free and it was like
four drinks, four drinks, but it was throughout the movie
of like using alcohol as a weapon. And like obviously
(32:19):
Cassie's whole thing is she pretends to be drunk to
see what like these nice guys, well we'll pick her up.
I did. I went to a ladies night in Hong
Kong and I definitely got something was put in my
drink and I was I was hospitalized. Yeah, I know that. Yeah,
(32:41):
it's it's it hits so quickly, like he I went
from being fine to very much not fine within like
an hour. Um yeah yeah. And it's just frightening because
it's sort of the like we were talking about, like
that's just a threat that you face being out, out
(33:05):
and about in the world. And I definitely had like
because you keep seeing these instances of them trying to
have sex with her when she is, you know, supposed
to be looks very very drunk, like very very drunk.
And I remember once this guy I threw up all
over him and he was still like, I still want
to have sex. I was like, no, I'm good, I'll
(33:29):
be leaving now, thank you. Yeah yeah um. And then
this is also like I don't know that this is true.
I want to I want to stress this, but this
is what the level we're talking about is. There was
a rumor at the school that I went to that
every year this fraternity and it was sort of like notorious,
(33:52):
like that's the not safe one. Don't go to that one.
They would choose a girl and get her really really
drunk and then lock her in this Glass's trophy case
and then the next morning like take pictures and video
of her, and it was sort of like a thing
like you don't want to be the trophy girl, but
like that whole idea of because there's a lot of
(34:13):
the guys in this kind of talk about it like
a game or their laugh about it, and that that
was just like a real thing. But we told each
other on campus. I mean, I'm betting, I'm betting there's
a basis to that for sure, if nothing else. I
don't like recently, and it's a little different today when
(34:33):
we talk about these cases kind of like the ones
that happened for Tanina in this movie, we do see
specific areas or rooms or as you talk, like fraternities
who are known and have a reputation um as recently,
like I've seen TikTok's of students take trying to do
(34:54):
takedowns of specific fraternities because the school would not handle it.
So therefore they would organize protests in front of these
frats um and fraternity and it was It's interesting to
see because I think I saw at least like two
or three different schools where they talked about a specific
organization a specific fraternity, UH fraternal order who was known
(35:15):
for throwing parties where women were constantly date raped, and
therefore they would stage protests um in front of it
because that's all they could do and that was the
only way they could get any kind of attention and
justice for the victims. So it's we don't have much
of that and play other than that's how Cassie stalking
(35:38):
the individuals and their information. But like that's a newer
thing that's having to come by to try to get justice. Recently,
I just saw a tweet from a woman who was
told her case may not make it into even though
she did everything correctly. She immediately reported to the police,
(35:58):
she immediately give evidence, she immediately got an exam all
the things, and because of that, she went to Twitter
and she just named the names and went all the
way down um, and it brought up a huge like
why are you telling us? Why aren't you going to
the police. And then she's like, I did, but nothing
is happening. So here you go, and I want you
(36:19):
to know who this is and i want you to
know what happened to me. And I'm not gonna sit this.
I'll tell you how it's ruining my life and it's
currently ruining my life. Um, and I find it fascinating today,
like as we were talking about how big of a
change social media has made, whether it's good or bad,
but it has because women are starting to with the
(36:39):
me too movement, which is she said, it's starting to
gather a courage from seeing others speak out. But I
found that fascinating too, like the differences in this and
whether or not they could have turned to that route
about social media, which I thought would be what was
going to happen about that tape, To be honest, I
thought she was gonna post it. Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah.
(37:04):
We've talked about that in the power of those movements
on on social media and things like Twitter, where it's
probably it's impacted to you whether you use it or not,
but it is. It's just such a shame that that's
like what it takes, and that that like because it's
not easy to share that stuff. Yeah. I it's a huge,
(37:28):
powerful movement, but I hate that it requires kind of
just like, well, none of these other things have worked.
So here's my story, um, and hopefully it will prevent
prevent it from happening to you. At this place or
or what have you. I mean that's the other part
is that are naming names so women will be aware
who did it. Yeah, yeah, Um, my favorite right now
(37:52):
is them finding Brock Turner and blasting it every time
he tries to go somewhere how he changed his name
or changes their parents. Women are like, hey, Rock Turner
is in this area, be aware. I love it there.
This is that case and Brett Kavanell, we're definitely shining
through the story and this one, I would say, Um,
(38:12):
one of the lines that stuck out to me, and
we've all we've heard variations of the sign was you know,
it's every guy's worst nightmare getting accused like that, which
is what Al says and Cassie says back, can you
guess what every woman's worst nightmare is? But yeah, that
that like very clear stark gender difference. I thought it
was also pretty telling, as you were saying earlier, like
when Dean Walker, immediately it's like, oh, this is dangerous.
(38:36):
My daughter is in this room. There's alcoholin men, and
Cassie has a comment about like, oh, she's safer than
we were at your school, like your daughter is. But
also the whole idea of yeah, like dropping out from
med school after to his experience losing women in our
workforce or whatever it is, or losing lives because of
(38:56):
this trauma, because it's going ignored or even mocked, and
then you know, like trying to paint the picture of
who was lost, because so many times I feel like
it's like, oh, well, another statistic sexual assault is bad,
and we forget who the victim is and like our
the survivor is. And you see that throughout this of
Cassie trying to be like, remember Nina, Nina did this,
(39:16):
and she was like this and she was this was
so much and we've lost her because of this, So
that was there. It's like, it's strange for me to
say I did write down friendship because you know, Cassie
and Nina were very close, but we never see their friendship.
We just kind of hear about it, and we see
what Cassie does in her name, I don't know. You
(39:40):
also see that they've been together for so long and
the guilt of her not being with Nina holds her
like not only of course her death is going to
affect her, but she blames herself for letting her be
in that situation, or like not being with her to
get her out of that situation. Mm hmmm. Yeah, it's
like the kind of like ripple effects of those traumatic
(40:02):
of its of how it impacts people in your life. Um,
and I did wanna before we talk about the India
real quick, I did want to bring up something else
that I had forgotten about that you reminded me of.
Was when Carrie Mulligan was cast. There was all this
like backlash of oh, she's not hot enough for this role,
right right. It was such an absurd conversation because they
were like, someone like Margot Robbie, she's the one that
(40:23):
should be doing this. And it was during this time
I remember Carrie Mulligan came out and spoke out about
it and had a whole article written about it because
someone like articles were written that she was not pretty
enough and she could not get away with this, which
is a whole different conversation. I'm like, mm hmm, it
doesn't take much to get men into these positions. And
(40:46):
I'm not trying to be gallas or I'm not trying
to be insulting. It really is about a lot of
a lot of the in this specific line of going
to a club to meet a woman to go and
spend the night with. I'm sorry, Like, I think it's
just such a funny level of comparison, Like have you
not known normal, not Hollywood women going home with people?
(41:12):
But this also is the same damn narrative she wasn't
pretty enough, why would she be raped? Kind of, but
beside the point that Kay Mulligan is a Oscar winning
Hollywood actress, gorgeous Hollywood actress who has played leading ladies
for a while, So it's such an absurdity to me
(41:33):
that they had to be like she has to be
a blonde bombshell to play this character, which is just
essentially taking men home while they're drunk, or being taken
home by men who want to dunk inebriated, unconscious woman
half the time for their physical purpose. Like it's just
it's kind of like, what do you think this is?
I don't understand. There's so many things in this narrative
(41:57):
that is so insulting to every woman in general and
also every victim in general that it just bems so
ridiculous that that was the critique to this movie. Mm hmmm, Yeah,
that is a disgusting, harmful narrative. Um, and we've talked
(42:18):
about it before on the show, So Ryan check that out.
And then yeah, just to briefly talk about the ending,
because this was the big thing everybody kept kind of
(42:38):
hinting at. For me, it was like, holy ending, it is.
It's really rough. M I think this scene like how
quickly Al and his friend to go from like oh,
she's dead. Oh, this is not your fault. It's okay. Uh,
let's just burn the body and no, everyone will forget
about her. Yeah. He keeps saying always snicker fault. You're
(43:01):
gonna be fine. And you know, Al thinks, oh, I'm
going to have this happy life. I'm gonna get married.
No one's gonna know about it, um, because he's counting on.
Like nobody investigated with Nina, Um, it would investigate this person.
And so it was kind of like, you know, it's
still like a dark, grim ending. It was pretty satisfying
(43:22):
that you get arrested at his wedding. I was hoping
more people would get arrested, right. I also talked about
the wedding ceremony of the white people doing that, and
I know it was a joke and it was a
play on I think it's a play on crunchy, theunchy
crunchy movement. I don't know if you know what that is. Um,
(43:44):
the TikTok level, that's what I how I know it.
But I'm thinking that's what that is. The white women
doing a drum session. All right, I know this was
and it was like it was such a blak moment
to laugh. What is happening? What is happening? Am I
supposed to laugh here? Because I don't want to laugh
(44:04):
right now? Um? But that's what we see. And and
then she him getting arrested. And also I think there's
also that conversation and maybe reading too much into it
because when Al says the stripper is dead, he never
says who she is, So Joe doesn't know who she is,
and he's like, she's just a stripper. No one's going
to know, right, not realizing who she was. And I
(44:27):
don't know if it's ever so said to him, like
we know Al knows, we Al knows that he knows Nina.
He doesn't know who she is. Oh, no, he does know,
because she said you don't remember me. He's like I
missed him, not been on your radar or whatever? Oh
you do remember me after he says you're Nina's friend, Um,
but he never says that to Joe, And I think
(44:48):
that's the huge dismissiveness and other levels like the talking
about sex work and what we need to talk about
and how invisible they can be treated and dismissed us
human as well. So there's so many under lying things
to that. Again, I'm maybe waiting too much into it,
but I think there's that conversation too, and men empower
(45:09):
dismissing women in specific employments or careers and therefore feeling
like they can and they are untouchable and they have
the right to dismiss them as such. Yeah, that was
I definitely got that same vibe. Um, Like how quickly
(45:30):
they were like, oh, let's just burn the body like that. Oof.
It's like he didn't even think too, Like that was
like the first things like Oh, let's just burn the
body because it doesn't matter, she doesn't matter. Yeah, and
also like I know this wasn't really the point, but
I did. It did crack me up how quickly they
(45:50):
went from did anybody order a stripper? Two? Oh, it's
a stripper, who cares, We don't care who ordered? Like whatever, Okay,
she feeling let's go yes, And then I did I
want to touch on really briefly, um, that whole thing
at the end where everybody's kind of blaming Cassie's mental
health and like I said, like she for her disappearance,
(46:12):
like oh, she wasn't doing well, um whatever, But it
felt like the cops were so ready to be like yeah,
I was just mark it off the list. She wasn't
doing well, right, um, kind of these leading questions and
like I said, like, she isn't doing well. But I
think that was part of the point, was everybody kept
telling her to move on from this like horrific thing,
(46:35):
and she couldn't. And she was like I couldn't just
ignore that this had happened or ignore that this is
the world we live in and she's getting told like
that's just how it is, and she couldn't. And so I, um,
I thought that was interesting. I read a couple of
articles about about that and how like they were so
(46:57):
quick to blame the mental health, but they would just
so readily like, but this actually happened, and this was
an issue, and of course just stremtized from it. Yeah.
I think in that regards and We talked about this
in previous episodes. UM. I think when I first started,
when we see people using mental health and weaponizing mental
(47:20):
health when it comes to the gender differences, they blame
mental health for women's downfall, while they blame mental health
for a man who is violent and are hurting others.
So it's such a whole different level of who is
doing what UM to the same effect, like, well, if
you're saying that he is mentally unstabled, that's why he
(47:43):
gunned down an entire school, and that's the excuse, so
we should we should forgive him or something as to where, well,
this woman died or got killed because she was not healthy.
Wait what Like it's just it's the opposite effect in
what we see in this conversation UM and what we
use and weaponize and how we weaponize it, whether it's
(48:04):
for or against UM. And it's it's very interesting conversation
because one is an excuse and one's the reason, and
it's kind of that level of Uh, here we go again.
We see this happen all the time, and this is
a prime example of this, and we've seen that with
them missing and murdered Indigenous women, UM that oftentimes their
(48:26):
mental health or its drug uses involved, or anything that
they can scrape up to say this is why she
she's gone and it's her fault, instead of finding a
reason that to or instead of finding the fact that
she's a victim here and we need to do everything
we can do to find them. Is that same stark
(48:47):
difference here to me as well? Um. I also wanted
to point out when they were talking to uh Bo
Burnham's character Ryan Um, they kept thanking him. Honestly, you
can't be blind to me. You're such an ouderstanding citizen.
You're doing such a great job. Oh yeah, she was
so mentally off, almost like thanking him for caring for
her those levels, like he was doing this out of petty,
(49:09):
but there's so many things to that level, like oh
my god, what mm hmm. Yeah, it was like he
used the victim for having to put up with her
and her issues and heavy quotes. But yeah, you're so right,
because when it's women, it's your fault all of these things,
the mental health, to the drugs, whatever it is. With men,
(49:33):
we're much more likely like, well, it's not he's fault.
It's like everybody else's fault. But not is that's what's
playing out the sexual assault too, Whereas and said, they're
essentially telling her to move on, to accept that this
is the world we live in, we can't do any better,
and she's so angry about it rightfully. Yeah, yeah, I
(49:54):
mean a lot to talk about, for sure. It is
a rough one. I recommend it, but be in the
right mind space, prepare yourself, get your healing movie after
the comedy. I don't think I immediately texted you like
I have to watch a romantic comedy or something now.
Thank you do the listeners, and we always love your
suggestions and thank you, but yes, I'm just kind of
(50:15):
mad at you, all right, yes, yes, thank you for
sending those suggestions. Thanks to everybody who suggested this. If
you would like to send us more suggestions, or if
you have any thoughts about this, you can email us
Stephane your mom stuff at iHeart media dot com. You
find us on Twitter at moms of podcast, or on
Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've Never told you. Thanks
(50:36):
as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you, Christina,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never told you.
Protection by Heart Radio for more podcast for my heart Radio.
You can check out the heart Radio Apple podcast to
ready listen to your favorite shops.
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.