April 22, 2021 • 24 mins
In this happy hour, Anney and Samantha discuss women and the Cicerone certification and standardized testing while sipping on beer from Dovetail Brewing.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.
I ever told you protected I heart radio. Happy Happy
happy hour Annie to you as well. I believe as
this comes out, if you're listening to it the day
(00:26):
it comes out, it is Earth Day, So Happy Earth Day,
Happy Earth Day. However, we're recording on for twenty, so
happy for twining everyone as well. A lot of things
happening this year. There's there's so many things. I feel
like April and may just get crams full of stuff. Yes,
it's true, it's true, especially with everybody Like I'm vexed,
(00:51):
which by the way, I had to look up that
term to make sure because I tweeted something about it
and then I was like, oh is this bad? What
does this mean? So essentially it was like, you're sexy
because you vaxed, but you've vaccinated. I was like, I
can handle that. I really thought it just meant you
got vaccination. Well, like I was hoping that too, I
think that kind of, but like I started getting real nervous.
(01:12):
I was like, wait, this is the term that I
don't want to be using. What's happening. But according to
Urban dictionary dot com, sexy because you got vaccinated. I
like it to be fair. Um, and today we are
sipping on some lovely, lovely beer from Dovetail Brewery. So
(01:33):
I'm gonna go ahead and open it. For those who
do not like a SMR, this me opening it, so
you might want to like, click ten seconds, I just
got some beer on my mic. We are the most
professional we are. What's so funny though, Annie opened her
beer before we started, and yes, she splashed it all
(01:55):
of herself. And I was so sad that we did
not have that on Mike because I had asked if
I should do it on Mike right And and You're like,
oh no, that's good. So there's a missing listeners out there.
You could have had a very embarrassing You're opening from
the face, your facial expression as well as just the
(02:16):
giving up. The whole throwing of the hands up into
the air was quite delight to see on this end.
But You're like, I smell like beer, and I was like, well,
it could be worse. It's true. I'm glad I at
least gave you a delight you did. As a reminder,
we are not sponsored f y I. Devetail Brewery came
through our friend Jason at Orpheus, who connected us with
(02:40):
their brewer, Jenny or JP according to her bio, at
Devetail Brewery in Chicago, Illinois, and apparently I think they
have expanded up to Wisconsin. So if you need some
of their delicious bears um, their site is pretty fun
as well. But shout out to both of them and
thank you very much. And by the way, I am
drinking the Coulche Year from Devetail Brewery mm hmm, and
(03:03):
you Anye, Yes, I am drinking the Vin style Logger.
Love a good logger as always, drink responsibly if you
choose to do so, you don't have to. I just
want you to have a happy time with us. Yeah,
so we just want you to share, uh and sit
with us as we go on our little tangents because
we love our tangents and this is a little less
(03:25):
organized than our other tangents, I will say that tangents
um and just what we wanted to talk a little
bit about today, but about the beer industry, it's about
having the sister own certification and I'll explain what that
is in a minute, but kind of go ahead and
get into our beers. Any and I actually tried the
college previously, and I actually tried the ving A log
(03:48):
Er previously because they hooked us up put someone the
tasty beers. But this one is really nice. It's a
good summer beer, I think for me, because it's very fruity,
but at the same time very chris. When I think
of beer, a colche or a Hill's or a lagger
or what usually my mind goes to, because you know,
(04:08):
I p a s are are amazing and everything, but
that's not the first thing I ever thought of as beer.
I always thought of the Logger Budweiser, you know what
I mean? And not at all. This is not a
Budweiser at all. It is a better quality little Budweiser,
will say that. But it has that lagger, it has
that nice heft of malt to it, and as they
described it, it is a happy beer. Sessionable and yes, sessionable.
(04:32):
I love a good sessionable beer makes you want to
have a glass after glass. I would not recommend it,
but definitely a glass. Uh fruity, floral and crisp, and
I think so that is definitely the type of beer
that I am drinking. I feel like this is also
one that I could have with a Hamburger would be
very happy with beer and Hamburger. I'm kind of similar
(04:55):
in that I when I think of beer, I usually
think of loggers. And that's because my mom, who did
introduced me to beer, that's what she drinks. And actually,
as my mom and I are really good friends, and
as I've become more adventurous, I've been sharing like I
think you'll like this mom, or I think you'll like
this blogger. And she is just one of those people
(05:18):
that's so delightful when she likes things, like she's almost
so surprising, it's so good, and then she wants to
get it at the restaurant and she's so happy she
can find it on a menu. And so I do
have like a really positive experience with loggers. And actually,
if any any listener has a connection to the Tofino
(05:39):
Brewery in Canada, I've been trying to get that logger forever.
I don't even know if it's still open. It might
not be, but she loved it, and I always am
like every Mother's Day or every birthday, I try to
find a way to get it. So far and all luck,
but any hookups, let me know. This is a very
very lovely take a sip. Yeah, As you know, I'm
(06:03):
terrible at describing things, so it's very lovely and it's
got like sometimes with beers that are really hoppy, you
can feel that bitterness coming for you, right, and I
feel like this has that. But then it's like is
MALTI like, there's a multi finish that just melds it together,
so it's not it's almost like you think it's going
(06:23):
to be bitter, but it's really not. It's quite quite refreshing.
So according to their definition, it is copper and color
with a warm multi character. It's made with being a
malt and steerion. I hope I'm saying that correctly, golden
hops rich, caramel toned, inviting. I love descriptions. Yeah, this
(06:46):
to me is definitely like an after dinner beer. When
I had it, I was like, oh yeah, because it's
MALTI on his own had a little bit of a
nutty ish type of taste to it, and I love
that in itself. I used to love a good like
dar longer, dark ill, and this is a little more darker,
but of course the hats bring it back. This is
(07:07):
what I remember. It has been a minusines. I drink
it but today we are talking a little bit about
the system of Ciperone, which the reason I want to
talk about it is again Jenny or JP, who is
the brewer who sent us this shout out thank you
very much from Devetail, is actually a senior exam manager
for Cicero, so she had to go through all of
(07:27):
these qualifications. And for those of you who may not know,
Ciperone is a sort of a beer somalia that's a
good description for it, meaning it's a program or courses
that can be used by the beer industry as someone
who is knowledgeable and possesses current and understanding of the
beer standards, quality and then some just kind of lends
to the idea that people have studied. Are certified are
(07:49):
experts much like a somalia um and according to their site,
it quote designates hospitality professionals with proven experience in selecting
a airing and serving today's wide range of beers. To
claim the title of cicerone, one must earn the trademark
title of Certified Citiceron or whole higher certifications as events
(08:09):
as are owne or masters as around And they actually
have a whole like site that you can look people
up and those were the basic level of expertise, gained
recognition by earning the first level title of certified Beer Server.
So according to their side as well, there are more
than a hundred thousand certified people worldwide, which is not
(08:30):
really a big number when you kind of think of
how many people are in the world a and how
much beer there is in the world be and even
the growing number of breweries as happening in the United States.
There's been some and then some around the world. We
know this, So even though that seems like a big
number to me, I don't think that's a huge number
(08:51):
in comparison to so any You said that you had
not heard of this at all, and I guess because I,
like I said, I was in the beer industry for
a little while, it was common knowledge to know what
this was. And my personal experience, we actually at ORPHEUS
tried to have Saturday classes in order to study for
(09:13):
the sister Ound certification. Now it was just for the
beer server because it is intense and it is fairly expensive.
So there's a whole lot of conversations that I had
in my head and it was very fascinating because you
learned about hops. You learned about malts, you learned about
types of beers where they originated from the history of beer.
So it's it's a really fascinating course. For sure. It
(09:35):
is intensive. It is like a four hour long test
in order to be certified as a beer server itself.
I didn't finish the course because everything kind of slowed
down at the brewery because I got really really busy
and overwhelmed with all the things that were happening there.
But it was very kind of them, and if I
(09:55):
remember correctly, I think they were going to pay for
our tests because they wanted all of us to be
on the point and understanding the beers and what it was.
And I don't think that's fantastic to learn more about beers. Now.
I have a conversation in my head going back and
forth because we know that there is this whole level
of back and forth when it comes to standardized testing. Yeah,
(10:18):
and to me, this was kind of one of those
level of things, how well do you do with standardize? Um? Well,
not to brag, but very well. I actually I know
that that argument has been made a lot in the
United States that we teach students to take tests, we
don't actually teach students. I feel like I was really
(10:39):
really good at taking tests. Um, yeah, also smart, but
you're very smart. You were very smart, I agree, thank you.
Yeah for myself, I remember, because a part of this
is there's a level of anxiety when it comes to testing,
the level of over preparedness, not tresting all of these things.
(10:59):
I remember I had a fellow student who was an
A and then some like her g p A was
beyond mine. I outdid her SA t S, outdid her
the A c T S. She did so horribly that
she had to redo it like three different times. This
has nothing to do with her ability to learn of
what she knew, Like she was beyond intelligent, she just
(11:22):
could not take a standardized test. The level of anxiety
to perform like that was too much for her, and
for me it helped me get into college. Not that
my my g p A was not bad, but just
in general, like the scholarships, you get this merit level
of ideas. And then again, standardized tests cost money, so
who can repeatedly take the test? And if you want courses,
(11:45):
holy crap, taking courses costs so much money. This is
an obvious systemic level of separating those who can afford
things versus those who can do things right. Um, and
not to you to say anything to those who are
do well in these tests, that's wonderful, but there is
(12:05):
something wrong with this type of system that literally pays
a path for you about whether or not you give
money to be able to go to college. That's it's
the whole level absurdity in itself to me. Yeah, when
I lived in China, I taught a bunch of things,
but I did teach a class on how to basically
(12:25):
get into college in the United States, and it was
like an optional class, but I could tell that everyone
there had access to a lot more resources, and that
just was how it was like that those are the
people taking that class. And on top of that, there is, yes,
(12:46):
the like books that you can buy about how to
write a C T or the S A T and
the classes and just the idea that that mindset existed.
I mean obviously in China, where there were students or
their families that wanted students to get into colleges in
(13:06):
the United States, right, So I worked from thirteen on
essentially trying to get whatever I could because my family
was was not the wealthiest. They provided everything they could
for me, but they had four children and then some
and so we had to do any extra corregular stuff.
Anything's a car and all of that was going to
be on us for me. I remember buying an S
(13:30):
A T and a C T computer program that costs
like a hundred dollars that I paid out of my
own money, and it did benefit me. So I feel
like those type of things like not everyone can get that.
Not everyone has a computer. I don't remember where I
got that computer. Yeah, And if I'm remembering correctly, it
was the S A T S at least for like
(13:50):
Saturday morning, and they were like four to six hours.
You had to schedule it yourself if no one else
wanted to help there. Yeah, so and and I digress
because overall all the Standard I testing makes me a
little anxious in itself in the implications on it alone.
According to the reports, there are only four top tier
(14:14):
female master cisernes, so that means the top of the
top of the top. Again, this is a very intensive
level and there's four different levels that you can get
to UM this starting with the beer server, and the
first woman to actually get her masters her own was
in two thousand eleven Nicole Ernie, who was at that
time only one out of four at all to obtain
(14:37):
a master sister own title. And this is two thousand
eleven again, and according to one report, as a twenty
only nineteen have ever passed to become a master. So
to say that this is a bragging right is obvious
a big thing. Again, there's four out of the nineteen
who are women right now, um JP, she's getting up there,
(14:58):
so maybe we'll hear report about her soon enough. If
you go to any of her social media. She knows
her stuff. She's a good person to watch about brewing,
about hops, about fermentation, all of that. But I find
it fascinating in this industry how the top of the
top is so hard to get to it. I guess
we can talk about that in the Somalia. I haven't
looked at that statistic yet. I did think about wanting
(15:21):
to be a part of that culture as well, because
I can taste wines, but I'm not amazing. I'm not
amazing enough to be like this is from this specific vineyard. Never.
I also cannot taste specific hops, although there are specific hops.
When I see it, I know that I gravitate towards
this the Mosaic because it was one of my favorites
because they have created a really amazing taste. Then I
(15:43):
tasted another beer from a different brewery that was completely
mosaic and I did not like it. So those and
as we've talked about before, at one point hops were
worth more than gold, and I don't know their value now.
I would have to look at that up. But I
do find it interesting this level of expertise and who
(16:05):
is garnered towards, but also talking about within that, how
many of those women are women of color? And by
the way the pictures I saw, not many, not many, um.
And one of the conversations though for Ernie, who obviously
has made a name for herself, was how to normalize
and not make it about gender. Of course, much like
(16:26):
many of the professionals that we've talked to or we
seek articles from, they're really tired of having to be
the woman or women the first female, instead of just
someone who loves something. And I get that. I get
that question a lot. We talked about affirmative action just
for a little bit and why that's necessary, and the
argument back and forth about well, it's not about merit,
it's about race, and that's not necessarily true and why
(16:48):
it was needed in the first place. And it comes
to the question of what does it look like to
normalize women as part of any industry and why has
to be that we have to cut out a section
for women instead of just allowing it to be These
women are amazing their brewers in the story, right, And
(17:12):
then the bigger conversation goes to, well, why does it
have to be black owned instead of realizing because there
is a detriment in the statistics of who was offered
to be seen within an industry and who is being
credited as an expert, who is being credited as knowledgeable,
(17:32):
and that really systematically goes to white men as the authority,
and why we need to talk about breaking that down.
It's not necessarily about austing people m h and not
tokenizing people. But how does that even start? And then
you talk about these level of testing that makes you
(17:53):
these experts, but the amount of money that it comes
to being able to do these things, I don't even
know if people, again, you didn't know what it was.
I didn't know what it was until I started in
the beer industry, and I guess if you go in
people will tell you that's great. But what if no
one's willing to tell you because they're not willing to
give you a chance because you're a woman, or they're
not willing to give you a chance because you're a
(18:14):
person of color, or any of those conversations that we
need to have. Of course, there's a lot of lift service,
but is it changing. I know within the Pink Boot Society,
which is a very female centric, trying to get more
women involved in the loving craft of brewery and brewing
(18:36):
because there are so many women who love brewing and
can understand this. And again, brewing started as a women's
thing till men figure out they could make money, till
then I figure out they could make your money, and
it quickly got overtaken and then women kind of just
kind of disappeared in history when it came to brewing.
(18:57):
And so Paint Society is one of those that like
to celebrate women come together with the women who loved beer,
and of course they had their own ups and downs
about involving people of color, involving the marginalized community, the
LGBTQ plus and what that looks like. And of course
they've made big strides and there are amazing people within
that organizations and I love that organization as well. And
(19:19):
then even to the point that they have been giving
scholarships two people to take sister around to be able
to do this course because it's kind of that level,
and I love seeing that as well. But again, that's
that bigger conversation of this exclusionary idea of being an expert.
Doesn't just exclude people who might not love it as
much in your opinion, which is very gate keeping in itself, yes,
(19:45):
but it excludes those who do not have the monetary
ability or even the accessibility in any way to get
to that level. And that's a big question of okay,
as Ernie says, it's about knowing your and being celebrating
because the cistern is not Jen dirt, and that is
absolutely well, I don't know, I'll have to go back
and look at that. As she says, it doesn't ask
(20:06):
for your gender, all of those things, and that's that's
very true. But at the same time, there is levels
of stumbling blocks for those who cannot have the same
accessibility m hm as some can. So I had a
brewery who cared enough about us to offer this to
us right on the weekends, knowing that everybody else had
(20:27):
full time jobs. Is that a thing for everyone? Right?
But anyway, Yeah, and I think this is another example
of when people want to dismiss kind of the whole
purview of our show, which is intersexual feminism impacts everything,
like the fact that there's only what four women that
(20:51):
have reached this top level, but the population and they
drink beer like that's you have to ask yourself why
a certain point, You've got to ask why, and there
are just you can't isolate it to one thing there
it does. There's issues of all kinds of things around
(21:11):
that and why that is. And that's why we got
to talk about these things. Right And to those who
are the surround certified, congratulations that is a big seat. Uh.
The amount of documents that we had just doing three
lessons was wow. And again, shout out to things like
Pink Boot Society to I'm following a Craft Women connection
(21:33):
for breweries who offer scholarships to advance people who want
to do this. Shout out to that. Shout out to
Orpheus who tried to offer that to us before the
pandemic and everything fell apart. Like those are things that
need to be happening, and we need to talk about
why it's not being as accessible as inclusive as the few. Yes, well,
(21:55):
I don't know if you know this about me, Symanthem.
Here's my claim to fame in the alcohol world. Well,
I have more than one, but here's the one I
want to talk about. Um. I was knighted second hands.
So I'm a dame because I managed to be a
(22:17):
suburber for like half a minute. I did it one
time in front of somebody had been nighted, and he
knighted me, and therefore you have been disrespecting me this
whole time. Can they do that? They can give you.
It's a very long title. So I'm not like official official,
but I I'm official, and I have the people. I
(22:41):
don't know. I'll ask him. He gave me a cigar,
I have it. I still have it, Like I don't
know what to do about this anyway. That's my claim
to You can find the video on YouTube. I will
say it took me six strays, but I did do it.
Those those scare me. When people do that, I'm like,
(23:02):
oh my god, someone's gonna lose fingers ahead something. It was.
I was very intimidated. I'm very clumsy, as you know,
I'm very easily startled. It worked out fine, nice, nice, fine,
Perhaps will revisit that. I would be love to know
how any females brewers they are out there. But all right, cheers,
cheers everyone, Let's fix these problems. Yeah, okay, let's do it.
(23:28):
Let's let's get to work. And we would love to
hear any suggestions from you listeners about creators who should
spotlight in these happy hours, or any cocktails you created
alcoholic are not and you can send those to us.
Our email is Stephia mom Stuff at ihart me dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
or on Instagram and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks
(23:48):
as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You.
The production of I Heart Radio for More podcast from
I Heart Radio is that I Hear Radio, app podcast
or wherever you listen to your favorite chats
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.
I ever told you protected I heart radio. Happy Happy
happy hour Annie to you as well. I believe as
this comes out, if you're listening to it the day
(00:26):
it comes out, it is Earth Day, So Happy Earth Day,
Happy Earth Day. However, we're recording on for twenty, so
happy for twining everyone as well. A lot of things
happening this year. There's there's so many things. I feel
like April and may just get crams full of stuff. Yes,
it's true, it's true, especially with everybody Like I'm vexed,
(00:51):
which by the way, I had to look up that
term to make sure because I tweeted something about it
and then I was like, oh is this bad? What
does this mean? So essentially it was like, you're sexy
because you vaxed, but you've vaccinated. I was like, I
can handle that. I really thought it just meant you
got vaccination. Well, like I was hoping that too, I
think that kind of, but like I started getting real nervous.
(01:12):
I was like, wait, this is the term that I
don't want to be using. What's happening. But according to
Urban dictionary dot com, sexy because you got vaccinated. I
like it to be fair. Um, and today we are
sipping on some lovely, lovely beer from Dovetail Brewery. So
(01:33):
I'm gonna go ahead and open it. For those who
do not like a SMR, this me opening it, so
you might want to like, click ten seconds, I just
got some beer on my mic. We are the most
professional we are. What's so funny though, Annie opened her
beer before we started, and yes, she splashed it all
(01:55):
of herself. And I was so sad that we did
not have that on Mike because I had asked if
I should do it on Mike right And and You're like,
oh no, that's good. So there's a missing listeners out there.
You could have had a very embarrassing You're opening from
the face, your facial expression as well as just the
(02:16):
giving up. The whole throwing of the hands up into
the air was quite delight to see on this end.
But You're like, I smell like beer, and I was like, well,
it could be worse. It's true. I'm glad I at
least gave you a delight you did. As a reminder,
we are not sponsored f y I. Devetail Brewery came
through our friend Jason at Orpheus, who connected us with
(02:40):
their brewer, Jenny or JP according to her bio, at
Devetail Brewery in Chicago, Illinois, and apparently I think they
have expanded up to Wisconsin. So if you need some
of their delicious bears um, their site is pretty fun
as well. But shout out to both of them and
thank you very much. And by the way, I am
drinking the Coulche Year from Devetail Brewery mm hmm, and
(03:03):
you Anye, Yes, I am drinking the Vin style Logger.
Love a good logger as always, drink responsibly if you
choose to do so, you don't have to. I just
want you to have a happy time with us. Yeah,
so we just want you to share, uh and sit
with us as we go on our little tangents because
we love our tangents and this is a little less
(03:25):
organized than our other tangents, I will say that tangents
um and just what we wanted to talk a little
bit about today, but about the beer industry, it's about
having the sister own certification and I'll explain what that
is in a minute, but kind of go ahead and
get into our beers. Any and I actually tried the
college previously, and I actually tried the ving A log
(03:48):
Er previously because they hooked us up put someone the
tasty beers. But this one is really nice. It's a
good summer beer, I think for me, because it's very fruity,
but at the same time very chris. When I think
of beer, a colche or a Hill's or a lagger
or what usually my mind goes to, because you know,
(04:08):
I p a s are are amazing and everything, but
that's not the first thing I ever thought of as beer.
I always thought of the Logger Budweiser, you know what
I mean? And not at all. This is not a
Budweiser at all. It is a better quality little Budweiser,
will say that. But it has that lagger, it has
that nice heft of malt to it, and as they
described it, it is a happy beer. Sessionable and yes, sessionable.
(04:32):
I love a good sessionable beer makes you want to
have a glass after glass. I would not recommend it,
but definitely a glass. Uh fruity, floral and crisp, and
I think so that is definitely the type of beer
that I am drinking. I feel like this is also
one that I could have with a Hamburger would be
very happy with beer and Hamburger. I'm kind of similar
(04:55):
in that I when I think of beer, I usually
think of loggers. And that's because my mom, who did
introduced me to beer, that's what she drinks. And actually,
as my mom and I are really good friends, and
as I've become more adventurous, I've been sharing like I
think you'll like this mom, or I think you'll like
this blogger. And she is just one of those people
(05:18):
that's so delightful when she likes things, like she's almost
so surprising, it's so good, and then she wants to
get it at the restaurant and she's so happy she
can find it on a menu. And so I do
have like a really positive experience with loggers. And actually,
if any any listener has a connection to the Tofino
(05:39):
Brewery in Canada, I've been trying to get that logger forever.
I don't even know if it's still open. It might
not be, but she loved it, and I always am
like every Mother's Day or every birthday, I try to
find a way to get it. So far and all luck,
but any hookups, let me know. This is a very
very lovely take a sip. Yeah, As you know, I'm
(06:03):
terrible at describing things, so it's very lovely and it's
got like sometimes with beers that are really hoppy, you
can feel that bitterness coming for you, right, and I
feel like this has that. But then it's like is
MALTI like, there's a multi finish that just melds it together,
so it's not it's almost like you think it's going
(06:23):
to be bitter, but it's really not. It's quite quite refreshing.
So according to their definition, it is copper and color
with a warm multi character. It's made with being a
malt and steerion. I hope I'm saying that correctly, golden
hops rich, caramel toned, inviting. I love descriptions. Yeah, this
(06:46):
to me is definitely like an after dinner beer. When
I had it, I was like, oh yeah, because it's
MALTI on his own had a little bit of a
nutty ish type of taste to it, and I love
that in itself. I used to love a good like
dar longer, dark ill, and this is a little more darker,
but of course the hats bring it back. This is
(07:07):
what I remember. It has been a minusines. I drink
it but today we are talking a little bit about
the system of Ciperone, which the reason I want to
talk about it is again Jenny or JP, who is
the brewer who sent us this shout out thank you
very much from Devetail, is actually a senior exam manager
for Cicero, so she had to go through all of
(07:27):
these qualifications. And for those of you who may not know,
Ciperone is a sort of a beer somalia that's a
good description for it, meaning it's a program or courses
that can be used by the beer industry as someone
who is knowledgeable and possesses current and understanding of the
beer standards, quality and then some just kind of lends
to the idea that people have studied. Are certified are
(07:49):
experts much like a somalia um and according to their site,
it quote designates hospitality professionals with proven experience in selecting
a airing and serving today's wide range of beers. To
claim the title of cicerone, one must earn the trademark
title of Certified Citiceron or whole higher certifications as events
(08:09):
as are owne or masters as around And they actually
have a whole like site that you can look people
up and those were the basic level of expertise, gained
recognition by earning the first level title of certified Beer Server.
So according to their side as well, there are more
than a hundred thousand certified people worldwide, which is not
(08:30):
really a big number when you kind of think of
how many people are in the world a and how
much beer there is in the world be and even
the growing number of breweries as happening in the United States.
There's been some and then some around the world. We
know this, So even though that seems like a big
number to me, I don't think that's a huge number
(08:51):
in comparison to so any You said that you had
not heard of this at all, and I guess because I,
like I said, I was in the beer industry for
a little while, it was common knowledge to know what
this was. And my personal experience, we actually at ORPHEUS
tried to have Saturday classes in order to study for
(09:13):
the sister Ound certification. Now it was just for the
beer server because it is intense and it is fairly expensive.
So there's a whole lot of conversations that I had
in my head and it was very fascinating because you
learned about hops. You learned about malts, you learned about
types of beers where they originated from the history of beer.
So it's it's a really fascinating course. For sure. It
(09:35):
is intensive. It is like a four hour long test
in order to be certified as a beer server itself.
I didn't finish the course because everything kind of slowed
down at the brewery because I got really really busy
and overwhelmed with all the things that were happening there.
But it was very kind of them, and if I
(09:55):
remember correctly, I think they were going to pay for
our tests because they wanted all of us to be
on the point and understanding the beers and what it was.
And I don't think that's fantastic to learn more about beers. Now.
I have a conversation in my head going back and
forth because we know that there is this whole level
of back and forth when it comes to standardized testing. Yeah,
(10:18):
and to me, this was kind of one of those
level of things, how well do you do with standardize? Um? Well,
not to brag, but very well. I actually I know
that that argument has been made a lot in the
United States that we teach students to take tests, we
don't actually teach students. I feel like I was really
(10:39):
really good at taking tests. Um, yeah, also smart, but
you're very smart. You were very smart, I agree, thank you.
Yeah for myself, I remember, because a part of this
is there's a level of anxiety when it comes to testing,
the level of over preparedness, not tresting all of these things.
(10:59):
I remember I had a fellow student who was an
A and then some like her g p A was
beyond mine. I outdid her SA t S, outdid her
the A c T S. She did so horribly that
she had to redo it like three different times. This
has nothing to do with her ability to learn of
what she knew, Like she was beyond intelligent, she just
(11:22):
could not take a standardized test. The level of anxiety
to perform like that was too much for her, and
for me it helped me get into college. Not that
my my g p A was not bad, but just
in general, like the scholarships, you get this merit level
of ideas. And then again, standardized tests cost money, so
who can repeatedly take the test? And if you want courses,
(11:45):
holy crap, taking courses costs so much money. This is
an obvious systemic level of separating those who can afford
things versus those who can do things right. Um, and
not to you to say anything to those who are
do well in these tests, that's wonderful, but there is
(12:05):
something wrong with this type of system that literally pays
a path for you about whether or not you give
money to be able to go to college. That's it's
the whole level absurdity in itself to me. Yeah, when
I lived in China, I taught a bunch of things,
but I did teach a class on how to basically
(12:25):
get into college in the United States, and it was
like an optional class, but I could tell that everyone
there had access to a lot more resources, and that
just was how it was like that those are the
people taking that class. And on top of that, there is, yes,
(12:46):
the like books that you can buy about how to
write a C T or the S A T and
the classes and just the idea that that mindset existed.
I mean obviously in China, where there were students or
their families that wanted students to get into colleges in
(13:06):
the United States, right, So I worked from thirteen on
essentially trying to get whatever I could because my family
was was not the wealthiest. They provided everything they could
for me, but they had four children and then some
and so we had to do any extra corregular stuff.
Anything's a car and all of that was going to
be on us for me. I remember buying an S
(13:30):
A T and a C T computer program that costs
like a hundred dollars that I paid out of my
own money, and it did benefit me. So I feel
like those type of things like not everyone can get that.
Not everyone has a computer. I don't remember where I
got that computer. Yeah, And if I'm remembering correctly, it
was the S A T S at least for like
(13:50):
Saturday morning, and they were like four to six hours.
You had to schedule it yourself if no one else
wanted to help there. Yeah, so and and I digress
because overall all the Standard I testing makes me a
little anxious in itself in the implications on it alone.
According to the reports, there are only four top tier
(14:14):
female master cisernes, so that means the top of the
top of the top. Again, this is a very intensive
level and there's four different levels that you can get
to UM this starting with the beer server, and the
first woman to actually get her masters her own was
in two thousand eleven Nicole Ernie, who was at that
time only one out of four at all to obtain
(14:37):
a master sister own title. And this is two thousand
eleven again, and according to one report, as a twenty
only nineteen have ever passed to become a master. So
to say that this is a bragging right is obvious
a big thing. Again, there's four out of the nineteen
who are women right now, um JP, she's getting up there,
(14:58):
so maybe we'll hear report about her soon enough. If
you go to any of her social media. She knows
her stuff. She's a good person to watch about brewing,
about hops, about fermentation, all of that. But I find
it fascinating in this industry how the top of the
top is so hard to get to it. I guess
we can talk about that in the Somalia. I haven't
looked at that statistic yet. I did think about wanting
(15:21):
to be a part of that culture as well, because
I can taste wines, but I'm not amazing. I'm not
amazing enough to be like this is from this specific vineyard. Never.
I also cannot taste specific hops, although there are specific hops.
When I see it, I know that I gravitate towards
this the Mosaic because it was one of my favorites
because they have created a really amazing taste. Then I
(15:43):
tasted another beer from a different brewery that was completely
mosaic and I did not like it. So those and
as we've talked about before, at one point hops were
worth more than gold, and I don't know their value now.
I would have to look at that up. But I
do find it interesting this level of expertise and who
(16:05):
is garnered towards, but also talking about within that, how
many of those women are women of color? And by
the way the pictures I saw, not many, not many, um.
And one of the conversations though for Ernie, who obviously
has made a name for herself, was how to normalize
and not make it about gender. Of course, much like
(16:26):
many of the professionals that we've talked to or we
seek articles from, they're really tired of having to be
the woman or women the first female, instead of just
someone who loves something. And I get that. I get
that question a lot. We talked about affirmative action just
for a little bit and why that's necessary, and the
argument back and forth about well, it's not about merit,
it's about race, and that's not necessarily true and why
(16:48):
it was needed in the first place. And it comes
to the question of what does it look like to
normalize women as part of any industry and why has
to be that we have to cut out a section
for women instead of just allowing it to be These
women are amazing their brewers in the story, right, And
(17:12):
then the bigger conversation goes to, well, why does it
have to be black owned instead of realizing because there
is a detriment in the statistics of who was offered
to be seen within an industry and who is being
credited as an expert, who is being credited as knowledgeable,
(17:32):
and that really systematically goes to white men as the authority,
and why we need to talk about breaking that down.
It's not necessarily about austing people m h and not
tokenizing people. But how does that even start? And then
you talk about these level of testing that makes you
(17:53):
these experts, but the amount of money that it comes
to being able to do these things, I don't even
know if people, again, you didn't know what it was.
I didn't know what it was until I started in
the beer industry, and I guess if you go in
people will tell you that's great. But what if no
one's willing to tell you because they're not willing to
give you a chance because you're a woman, or they're
not willing to give you a chance because you're a
(18:14):
person of color, or any of those conversations that we
need to have. Of course, there's a lot of lift service,
but is it changing. I know within the Pink Boot Society,
which is a very female centric, trying to get more
women involved in the loving craft of brewery and brewing
(18:36):
because there are so many women who love brewing and
can understand this. And again, brewing started as a women's
thing till men figure out they could make money, till
then I figure out they could make your money, and
it quickly got overtaken and then women kind of just
kind of disappeared in history when it came to brewing.
(18:57):
And so Paint Society is one of those that like
to celebrate women come together with the women who loved beer,
and of course they had their own ups and downs
about involving people of color, involving the marginalized community, the
LGBTQ plus and what that looks like. And of course
they've made big strides and there are amazing people within
that organizations and I love that organization as well. And
(19:19):
then even to the point that they have been giving
scholarships two people to take sister around to be able
to do this course because it's kind of that level,
and I love seeing that as well. But again, that's
that bigger conversation of this exclusionary idea of being an expert.
Doesn't just exclude people who might not love it as
much in your opinion, which is very gate keeping in itself, yes,
(19:45):
but it excludes those who do not have the monetary
ability or even the accessibility in any way to get
to that level. And that's a big question of okay,
as Ernie says, it's about knowing your and being celebrating
because the cistern is not Jen dirt, and that is
absolutely well, I don't know, I'll have to go back
and look at that. As she says, it doesn't ask
(20:06):
for your gender, all of those things, and that's that's
very true. But at the same time, there is levels
of stumbling blocks for those who cannot have the same
accessibility m hm as some can. So I had a
brewery who cared enough about us to offer this to
us right on the weekends, knowing that everybody else had
(20:27):
full time jobs. Is that a thing for everyone? Right?
But anyway, Yeah, and I think this is another example
of when people want to dismiss kind of the whole
purview of our show, which is intersexual feminism impacts everything,
like the fact that there's only what four women that
(20:51):
have reached this top level, but the population and they
drink beer like that's you have to ask yourself why
a certain point, You've got to ask why, and there
are just you can't isolate it to one thing there
it does. There's issues of all kinds of things around
(21:11):
that and why that is. And that's why we got
to talk about these things. Right And to those who
are the surround certified, congratulations that is a big seat. Uh.
The amount of documents that we had just doing three
lessons was wow. And again, shout out to things like
Pink Boot Society to I'm following a Craft Women connection
(21:33):
for breweries who offer scholarships to advance people who want
to do this. Shout out to that. Shout out to
Orpheus who tried to offer that to us before the
pandemic and everything fell apart. Like those are things that
need to be happening, and we need to talk about
why it's not being as accessible as inclusive as the few. Yes, well,
(21:55):
I don't know if you know this about me, Symanthem.
Here's my claim to fame in the alcohol world. Well,
I have more than one, but here's the one I
want to talk about. Um. I was knighted second hands.
So I'm a dame because I managed to be a
(22:17):
suburber for like half a minute. I did it one
time in front of somebody had been nighted, and he
knighted me, and therefore you have been disrespecting me this
whole time. Can they do that? They can give you.
It's a very long title. So I'm not like official official,
but I I'm official, and I have the people. I
(22:41):
don't know. I'll ask him. He gave me a cigar,
I have it. I still have it, Like I don't
know what to do about this anyway. That's my claim
to You can find the video on YouTube. I will
say it took me six strays, but I did do it.
Those those scare me. When people do that, I'm like,
(23:02):
oh my god, someone's gonna lose fingers ahead something. It was.
I was very intimidated. I'm very clumsy, as you know,
I'm very easily startled. It worked out fine, nice, nice, fine,
Perhaps will revisit that. I would be love to know
how any females brewers they are out there. But all right, cheers,
cheers everyone, Let's fix these problems. Yeah, okay, let's do it.
(23:28):
Let's let's get to work. And we would love to
hear any suggestions from you listeners about creators who should
spotlight in these happy hours, or any cocktails you created
alcoholic are not and you can send those to us.
Our email is Stephia mom Stuff at ihart me dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
or on Instagram and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks
(23:48):
as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You.
The production of I Heart Radio for More podcast from
I Heart Radio is that I Hear Radio, app podcast
or wherever you listen to your favorite chats
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