Happy Hour #32: Just Say No

Why can it be such a struggle to say 'no'? Anney and Samantha discuss all the complications with saying 'no', and how powerful it can be.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, A stuff I never
told you protection I high Radio and welcome. Thank you
for joining us for another happy hour. As always, if

(00:25):
you choose to drink whatever it may be, so responsibly,
what are you used to fig on? Samantha. You know,
I haven't been feeling too wonderfully lately emotionally, so I
have decided to keep it non alcoholic today and I'm
doing some my Bubble water with my raspberry Bubble flavorings

(00:46):
that I love. I do know what it's called Bubble,
so the brand that has a little bubbles, and I
think Michael bubl is the campaign person, but it's actually
I think it's Bubble. Someone may tell me differently, but anyway,
it's not sponsored obviously by them, but I enjoy it.
You gave us the Sparkling Water Machine. Sparkling Water Machine,

(01:11):
which I actually a sponsor on the other show. I do. No,
I am not being biased. That's what I am slipping
on because I want to feel lively and bubble in
my emotional despair. Well, I hope that works. It sounds
lovely right right. Yes. I am drinking Gin Lucuras how

(01:38):
because I'm trying to get rid of this massive bottled
blue cors Oh my gosh, it's that you're gonna be
drinking it forever. I think you may just need to
keep it as something that you use every now and again.
I'm not still like I'm planning on plowing through it
or anything, but it is quite a bit. Yeah, I
probably will that we will be buried with me when
I die. Here lies any Ner bottle Blue Girls now

(02:02):
and some sparkling water and some rosemary. It's very nice.
It's very pretty color. But I'm drinking it in a
glass that you can't see, so but you'll you'll just
trust me. It's very pretty. Um So, today's what it
should be. Short. This is something that's been on my
mind a lot, and I think it's been coming up
in a lot of episodes we've done recently, which is

(02:24):
this whole idea I've jokingly been calling in my head
just say no, and they're gonna be maybe brief discussion
of sexual but nothing in depth at all. But yeah, so,
as I've been going over it's hard for me. It's
like I've really separated myself from my body and it's
hard for me to know what I want. Um So,

(02:45):
I'm really reliant on like hues I pick up from
other people and what they want, and then I'll try
to like do that. That's not to say there aren't
things that I just want and I know that I
want them, you know, Star Wars and fan fiction being
right up there. But certainly in social situations, it's usually
when I'm dealing with other people. When I'm by myself,
I'm better at figuring out what that might be. But

(03:07):
when I'm with other people, I can get really confused,
and it can cause a lot of problems because people,
you know, sometimes interpret that pause or hesitation as oh,
you don't really want this, which might not be true.
It might be, but it's like I'm just someone who
asked the process things. And I know we've talked about
that Samantha before, where we're we can both be people
who would like kind of like just sit and take
something in and like think about it. Um. We've talked

(03:30):
before too about how I believe we talked about this
on the show. We've definitely talked about it in person,
about how you sometimes like legitimately don't care and so
you're like you want other people to decide because you've
legitimately don't care, but if you do, then you'll be like, Okay,
I want barbecue or whatever whatever it is. Yes, And

(03:52):
I think you know, I know I've said before, and
this is this came up recently because I was hanging
out with some people recently where I cause problems by
not trying to cause problems, because people do. If if
people are your friends, they want to make you happy
and they want to take care of you, and by
I think it can get messy when you know you've

(04:14):
got your level of trauma and your level of processing
distance one, when you have low self esteem and you
think no one could possibly want to do that stuff
for you too, um three. But there's also like social
the social aspect of like I don't want someone to
go out of their way, and I feel like that
all comes together for me and it becomes this messy
just like almost freeze reaction I have where I don't

(04:37):
know what I want and I don't want to do
anything wrong, and I it's scary because that is part
of that did happen in sexual assaults and experience where
I was like do I want this? And I didn't,
but I like frozen in that moment it was like
maybe I do, maybe I should, like all of these
questions and not trusting myself at all to know what

(04:59):
I want to express it in a firm, clear way
that I isn't like, well, I'd rather not, but if
you want, you know, like that. And when we also
were recently talking about like our moms and one of
the things you know, we wish had told us, and
mine was like, I wish because I observed her and
she was awesome, very much like this that I wish
she had told me it's okay to say no, because

(05:22):
this has just been from a very young age. This
has been ingrained in me, like be a people pleaser,
and that usually means going along with whatever they want
to do, and your needs and wants are always secondary,
and that becomes so so much of how I operate.
And I think for a lot of women that this
is the case. Um And and there's a lot of

(05:44):
aspects to that that we've talked about as well, of
like the safety of saying no, all these other considerations
we have to put into it. But that's like a
large preamble for what I want to just say is
like recently I've been really practicing it and act your
sciahs where I'm like trying to check in with myself
and just say no, it's so powerful. Um. It's silly

(06:10):
how it can be such a small thing and I'll
feel like, look what you've just accomplished. And it's usually
the other person is like fine with it, They're like okay,
but I get so so worked up about it. And
one of the big things, which I also talked about
it on Monday many recently for me, is food, because
I want people to eat things and enjoy things, and

(06:31):
I feel like if I say no, they won't do it,
and I want them to do it, and so I'll
say yes. But um, recently this past weekend I did.
I had a couple of instances of nope, thank you,
thank you, um. And I know it's it sounds so silly,

(06:52):
but it is like, it is that the whole thing
that I've really been harping on at least three being
mindful about why you do things and what you want.
And I will say that it was easier for a
lot of reasons. It's easier for a lot of obvious
reasons to do it among friends and around food, especially

(07:14):
when there had been so much food so I was like,
legitimately full, but I'm hoping that this will expand to
other things. And and also just yeah again being able
to say yes and believe it, like also um that
I want it, And again a lot of things I
say yes you I do ultimately want to do. It's

(07:35):
just that it's that moment of in decision and not
knowing for sure and just going along with it, whereas
I want to be like, yes, you do want to
do this, yes or no you don't. And it sounds
so basic, but it is very dangerous when it comes
to things like sexual assault or knowing what you want
a relationship. Is just something I really really struggled with
because it was always about the other person for me

(07:59):
and feeling guilty about not doing what they want and
that's just not a place to make healthy decisions trump
And also um uh yeah, I do wish. I do
wish that I had learned that at a younger age

(08:19):
that that was okay. And also um that I didn't
because I mean, people who know you know I will
say no. If there's something I really don't want to
do it, I'll be like no, But it almost has
to become like such an over the top thing, whereas
I want to be able to just be like, no,
I have to make it a big ordeal. And then
people are like, why are you making it a big ordeal?
And I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to.

(08:43):
She really doesn't want to play the game Catania. This
is true. I would do it for you. I would
do it. You would say it as a joke because
she her reaction her because big eyes and no. Essentially,
I was burnt by the sheep. Everyone burnt burnt by

(09:05):
the sheep. But yeah, that's all I really wanted to
talk about today. I know it's really simple, but it
has such larger implications and it is really that just knowing,
knowing yourself and knowing you want. It's such a like
it's a big deal and it's a relief and there's
stability in that. Yeah, I don't know if it's coming

(09:37):
up or if it's already happened or for those who
don't listen in order if you ever hear this, uh,
in our recent episode for our book club, we just
talk about the whole fact that No. She talks about Oh,
I guess it's the second part. She talks about the
fact that that is a societal failing when we can't
just say no essentially um, whatever it maybe, or have
to make an excuse for not wanting thing or not

(10:00):
doing something. And I think that's that overall thing is
especially as women being told to be polite. Polite means
accepting whatever's given to you. So accepting food, you know
you have to accept it, don't say no, don't turn
something down, being asked on a date, being talked to, like,
even if we're uncomfortable, if we're not polite about it,
we're seen as rude, and it's a failing on us

(10:21):
instead of being oh wait, they're violating my rights and
my own bodily space by coming over here talking to
me when I have my headphones in and obviously working.
Why are you standing here? Like There's been so many
videos recently and I love this and I'm glad it's happening.
When we see young women just minding their own damn
business being approached by men and will they will not

(10:42):
go away, take no for an answer or take any
hints um, and then eventually being told and usually within
the same video or a comment section where we're being rude.
There's no need to be rude. That needs to be
taken out of that conversation all the together. How about
it was rude to not take the hint. Sure, you
can shoot your shot, but if you've been turned down,
that's the end of story over. And especially if you're

(11:04):
coming as to a young girl, and this was many
of those where they're obviously teenage girls and you are
a fifty forty year old man, twenty year old man,
and you see this, you are out of bounds, point blank.
And this whole narrative that we need to be nice
to strangers, which is fed into women all together, is
that we have to be nice to strangers and be polite.

(11:27):
That should be thrown out the window. And I know
it's slowly happening, thank god, but there's still that large
narrative of but you need to be polite. And of
course you've already said this part about you know, this
is part of our safety. We just make up things
for our safety. So making a partner so when they
hear the rejection, they truly hear the rejection. But don't
be wrong. When I was a nanny, it didn't matter.

(11:48):
I got hit on by men who I thought were
safe because they were married and I was like, what's happening.
So that's a whole different conversation we could have, and
not just when I was a nanny, but it just
happened to be that I was around people with children,
so that what I was seeing, or the fact that, yeah,
there has to be an excuse that I'm not interested
in you. There has to be an excuse I don't
want to hang out with you any of those conversations,

(12:11):
or yeah, that I'm just not hungry. And don't get
me wrong, I'm one of these that takes a little
bit of an offense and I tried not to. If
I've made something and you don't try it, I'm like,
you don't like me. That's really what you rejected me.
But that's also but that's also part of the narrative
that we have to stop, is that we can't take
this as a personal offense against us individually. And unfortunately

(12:36):
we've gotten caught up in that as well, because we're
seeing that if you deny something, that's an extreme form
of rejection because we're told to not do it. So
this is double warming. But yeah, I don't mind saying
I don't want to come out like I think the
pandemic has really helped with my narrative. Like, Hey, I'm
an introvert, I don't want to be out long. I'm

(12:58):
good bye. I will quickly leave. I'll be like, I'm sleepy,
I'm leaving. I'm gonna go upstairs and taking y'all gonna
hang out right, Yeah, yeah, And I mean there's so
many things that's kind of hesitated to even bring this
one up because there are so many other things that play.
And like when I'm talking about food, there's also you

(13:19):
have to take into account. Like a lot of times
I'm thinking about friends who are women who are, you know,
very obsessed with their diet. Maybe I don't like to
eat some word of obsessed, but yeah, they're very concerned
about their diet. And when they are like, oh, I
want to order fries, but only if you'll get them,
I totally understand that impulse. I do that too, And
I also don't want to eat a hole plate of fries.

(13:39):
I want to share them. But because of that then
I'll be like, oh, I don't want them, but I'll
say yeah, Like you know, there's a lot of like
complications and gradations within all of this, and those are
things that you know, I and I would imagine a
lot of people, and in this case, a lot of
women are thinking of that because we do. We have
been largely socialized to make people happy and to think

(14:01):
about other people and do what we can to facilitate
their happiness. And then at the same time, I'm also
I know I've talked about it before. I have terrible
coping mechanisms and I'm trying to get better and I
am working on it. But one of them is if
I'm out with people like me for me being busy,
even though I do like it, I love it. It's
kind of it's part of my identity. And that's why

(14:22):
it's been so hard to break is I'm sort of
known as like that person who's so busy and she
will go if you invite her, she will go. And
I do want to do those things, but I have
no off I have no stop and I should stop
and I need sleep or I need to just go
home and not be out and about wild. But it's
a coping mechanism that's not very healthy because it's I

(14:44):
don't want to go home and deal with whatever thing
is on my mind or I know will keep me
up tonight. Or whatever it is. And I am also
very paranoid that I'll just lose all my friends suddenly,
like they'll be like, oh, she didn't come out this
one time, I'll never ask her again. So there is
a lot. I mean, it's it's when I say just
say no, in the power of saying no, I do
truly believe it, but there is it's not as easy

(15:06):
as that, which is why I kind of hesitated. I do.
I did want to talk about like my experiences of
my phrase, if it recently, and how I felt. But
it's I am under no disillusion that it is much
more complicated for a lot. I mean, all kinds of
things come into play, at least for me when I'm

(15:28):
thinking about like saying no, and what are they going
to interpret that ass and the oh no, what are
canny be their amplications of this? All this, I think
I'm more I'm more like it's not even that that
I'm talking about. I'm more talking about like I just
want personally to know maybe I've all no inside my
head the answer is yes or no, and I'll still
say the opposite, but I want to know it myself,

(15:52):
you know what I mean. That's kind of more what
I'm talking about, right, to know what you want instead
of just going with the flow, yes, and to be
confident in it and to be like, Okay, I want
this and and and and kind of what we were
talking about in the recent book Club two of like
that being fine, like I don't have to maybe the
answer is no, and I don't really know why, but
that's okay. Like the answer is just no, what you

(16:13):
feel right now and it could change later. Yeah, exactly exactly.
So cheers to that. Cheers, clink clink, yes, and cheers
to your listeners. Thank you as always for joining us,
and if you would like to contact us, we always

(16:35):
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Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can find
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(16:55):
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