July 21, 2022 • 18 mins
What is a sad murder dad, and what makes him so sad and murder-y? In an on-brand check-in on grief, Anney explains the popular trope over drinks.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
Never told You production of iHeart Radio. And it is
time for another happy hour. Just bite the name. I
think this one's going to be mostly a happy hour,
(00:25):
or at least like a not unhappy hour, even though
we are going to talk about grief but not much
okay hour then, yes, it's okay. I think it's gonna
be like the kind of enjoyable ranting hour. But I
don't know if you like this kind of thing. I
think you'll be into it. But if you don't me Um, So,
as always with these segments, drink responsibly. Uh and what
(00:48):
are you sipping on? Say? You know how we talked
about trying to switch up our drinks and again, but
we still have our fave. Yeah, I'm drinking a fave.
So I'm drinking my vino verde from Trader Joe's not
a sponsor unless they want to give me a case
of this wine because I really like it. Um, But yeah,
I'm just sticking with that today. It sounds nice, sounds refreshing.
(01:10):
It is light and refreshing and appily. Okay, Well, I
kind of had a similar issue again, so last time
I made like a gin and tonic with beer. This time,
I made like a gin wine slushy tonic thing. Interesting. Yeah,
because my friend, I believe I've told the story before,
but I have a friend who Katie, who's on her
(01:33):
episode about women with red hair. She loves snacks and
I don't like snacks, so and she loves desserts and
I don't really eat dessert so she'll every time she
comes over. She has started to bring desserts and snacks
and things that she'll like, and she'll leave them here.
But that's part of the problem is I don't like
having that stuff around. But she did leave this whole
(01:53):
like case of these wine slushies. Oh yeah, And she's
become increasingly fresh with me that I won't drink them,
but I also won't throw them away. But I'm like, you,
maybe you'll want them one day, And she flat out
told me I'm never going to drink those because it's
become a point of pride now and so I'm trying
to be stubborn and drink them slowly. Yes. Um, So
(02:20):
today we are going to talk about a tripe I've
mentioned before. Um, the sad murdered dad trope. And I
know this sounds kind of dark, but the timing of
this is it's the anniversary of my dad's death. Um.
And you know, I was thinking, I feel like, in
the years since he's died, I still have occasions where
(02:42):
I just get so so sad. Um. And and one
of the things I do on the anniversary of his
death is I watched Our Wars, which, of course, um,
we love Star Wars together. We watched Oars together. I
can't hear open one without hearing him. Um. And the
sad murder Dad trope is I first heard of it
about Darth Vader, so he's the original sad murder Dad
(03:06):
in my book. UM. And I did get Samantha knows.
I did find this letter he wrote me. I have
not opened it yet. I still haven't opened it. I
can't do it. I'm going to, but it just feels
like it's gonna be such a big before and after.
Like once I opened that letter, I think it's gonna
change something. It could possibly be like legal documents and
(03:27):
I really need them. Um. I was cleaning out my
apartment and I just came across this letter that when
he gave it to me, he left it on my bed,
and when I found it, I was so angry. I
just was like, I would never open this, And now
I'm kind of sad because who knows what's in there.
Maybe it would have been important and changed the relationship,
but too bad. I will never know. I will open it,
(03:49):
I will, but not today, not for me, not for
a minute. Even though I said I was going to
do it on Father's Day and I never did, and
I said I was gonna do the next weekind and
I never did. I've picked it up and held it
and almost opened it several times and then like no
I can't, I can't. Um, you take your time, okay,
thank you. It just it does feel like it's going
(04:09):
to be a big I don't know. It feels like
it's gonna be life changing, or at least potentially like
temporarily life changing. Right, it's definitely no matter what, it's
your dad's words to you who you have been seen
because he passed away a few years ago and now
you have those bags again, and you just come to
the point of being like kind of okay with his
um because he didn't leave you in a good place.
(04:33):
That's you know, that's obviously, so you like could be
reopening wounds that you don't want to think about. So
absolutely that makes perfect sense. Yeah, yeah, it does. I
just I have this like I have to read it.
I have to read it because somebody said, like you
don't have to read it, like maybe you just don't
read it, Like no, I have to read it. Um.
So I'm just waiting for the time when I just
(04:54):
been worried it's going to really like the next two
weeks are going to be ruined or something like I'm
not gonna be able to work or I don't know.
And again it could just beat like the legal documents.
Who knows. I always got you to read it. I
was like, you open it and you tell me what
it is and then I can prepare. I can do
that for you. We'll see, We'll see it's sitting there
(05:15):
chaunting me. It's uh. And I did go home. I
went home to see my mom last weekend. And every
time I go home, that's pretty like the memories are
just everywhere. And then I've never been to busity his
grave and every time I kind of drive by it,
that's always that always gets me. That's that's a rough time.
But again, maybe one day I'll visit it. But all
(05:36):
of this to say, I am someone, as you know,
who loves anniversaries and traditions and marketing occasions, no matter
how sad they might be. So I am going to
talk about the sad murder Dad trope UM. And I
like to think my dad, who did love Star Wars
and Darth Vader and movies in general, would at least
get a kick out of it. So this is also
(05:59):
an on my mind because I very excitedly showed you.
I sent you pictures I finally got my I donated
to a oh three, which is the big nonprofit fan
fiction website, and I finally got They sent this deck
of cards as a thank you to everyone who donated,
and each of the cards has a trope a fan
fiction tag on it um and They're so cool and
(06:20):
I loved them and I'm going to show them to
you next time we hang out like everyone, um, But
sad murdered Dad was not in there. Oh no, well,
yeah I did get these pictures. I was very confused.
I'm like, what am I looking at? Explain because I
didn't know what was happening. And then of course you're like,
this is what I'll say. Oh, Okay, very exciting. I'm
(06:40):
really excited to see them all. You sent a very
confused text, that's for sure, because I sent like ten
pictures because that's a limit on my phone. I would
have sent you like just kept popping up, so I
was like, what what's happening? I think that was what's
happening right now with resence. Yes, they also didn't have
a cinema rolled, but they had a lot of my
(07:00):
favorite They had a lot of my favorite tags. But
if you don't know what the sad murdered dad trope is,
it's essentially exactly what it sounds like. Um. It is
a father figure um who uses violence and murder in
the name of their child. And it's very sad about it,
(07:23):
not about the murder, but it's just sad, just a
sad character. And and and Darth Vader is the first
time I ever saw that tag. And I he is
frequently displayed that way. He's frequently and I mean this
is I would say accurate as his character. He's very
possessive of Luke because he doesn't know Leah as his child.
(07:46):
When we see him very possessive, so like he can
hurt Luke, but no one else can hurt Luke, and
he will like kill anyone, including the Emperor for Luke.
There's a lot of violence in his name that Luke
doesn't want. But but he's also very sad as a character.
(08:08):
A lot of the introspections I've read very sad because
he missed out on Luke's life. He Luke doesn't want
to be with him after he makes the announcement UM,
the revelation I am your father, And it is a
really interesting trope and it's one I feel like now
that I have that name for it, which is kind
(08:30):
of a funny like fan fiction name UM for I
see it all the time UM. And we have talked
about it before. We talked about it in our Survival
video game series, like anytime we bring up the Last
of Us because Joel, I would say, is a sad
murder Dad. And that weekend where we did Star Wars
and Last of Us for my birthday even joked it
could be like sad murder Dad. Yes, shot to find
(08:53):
the perfect name, but I think it's a sad soup
day soup we can, I think, And it was great.
The soup was not sad that people no, no, but
I did cry. I remember you brought out that piece
of pie and I was crying and I was like, oh,
this is perfect I did. I did, so thank you.
(09:16):
Um So, as you know, I also love the Simon
Roll tag. That's my favorite, UM, which is just somebody
who's like a sweetheart, like the most genuine, sincere sweetheart.
And Luke has often portrayed that way, not always but often.
UM So if you get like the sad murder Dad
and then the Cinnamon Roll, I think like the dichotomy
(09:37):
there is very interesting because you've got somebody like Luke
who is like so sweet, and then Vader who's like
literally kind of this hul king monster who's killing everybody,
and yet um they're related. But I think like these
are heightened fan fiction terms. But again I think this
is the same thing that we see all the time.
(09:59):
Or they is a usually cut off, emotionally constipated man
who lost something someone usually his wife and or daughter
or a child, goes down a dark spiral, cuts off
from everybody, becomes violent, becomes cold, meats a child or
(10:25):
somebody usually a young girl. But in this case no um,
but like Joel with Ellie, where you meet a young
girl who's like the ultimate innocence. I wouldn't call her
quite as some mineral, but it's like that same idea
of that foil against each other and then the sad
murder dad in question slowly like learns to feel again. Yeah,
(10:50):
and then um, but in doing so does it in
a very violent and very like toxic masculinity way of
of killing everybody? Um? Yeah, And so I do think
when I think about the last of us, and I
know I've talked about this ad nauseum and I probably
(11:12):
will forever, Like I feel like people, I guess, I
just I have this question that I feel like I
know the answer to, But is why why are we
so willing to excuse violence and bad behavior for fathers
in particular? Well, while mothers are women who engage in
this behavior are evil or bad or failures. And we've
(11:35):
got a pretty good episode I think coming up where
we're going to talk about some of this stuff soon
about why we treat mothers just that way. But fathers
were like, Oh, but he's so sweet, he's trying, he
cares so much, He'll kill all those people. Isn't that good? Like?
Is it? It's like showing showing you care through violence.
(11:58):
That's not the person the cinnamon roll in question doesn't want,
in fact, really really doesn't want, but you're doing it
in their name, and it's supposed to be proof of
how much you care, because I think we just value
so much masculine behavior more. It's also more dramatic, like
I'll give you that, but it's not It is certainly
(12:20):
more I would say, a masculine realm. Yeah, yeah, And
then this is a bigger issue. Perhaps then we're going
(12:42):
to get into two in depth in this one. But
it is something I think about too where I can't
help but sort of psychoanalyze writers sometimes. And it seems
like we have a whole generation of writers who I
could be wrong. I don't know they're lives, but maybe
had a father who wasn't there that much, or like
(13:05):
they felt like as a kid they had to do
something to keep them around, or or just closed off. Again,
I could be totally wrong, but it's just like we
see these stories a lot. Maybe they feel that way
as fathers themselves, they feel like they're failing, they're so
their way at their job all the time writing these things.
I don't know, but it's just sort of like, I
see a lot of male writers continually writing these things,
(13:30):
and I'm just kind of curious, curious why. Indeed, indeed,
I read a funny article about it in Star Wars
and they were like why, because you know, like the
Mandalorian and Grogu is the same essentially, Like why we
keep seeing this dynamic of sort of a like closed off, cold,
violent man who's honestly not very good at a job. No,
(13:58):
I love him. I love Darth Vader, but he's also
not very good at his job. Like he's he's had
a lot of screw ups in his day. Sure, And
I was telling my friend the other day that's one
of my favorite parts of the end Return of the
Jedi is is because he kind of failed as a
Sip and Luke kind of failed as a Jedi, and
(14:18):
they chose each other in the end. But you know,
like a failure it makes a character interesting. But I
just saying, like this writer also made the point of
it's it's intriguing that we're seeing this play out many
times in this universe. It is indeed intriguing. You're right,
(14:39):
you are correct, You are correct. As much as I
have been complaining about it and We're big proponents of
being cognizant of your media and the messages you send.
I do love the trope on fan fiction. Usually in
fan fiction it's less violent, usually not always, but usually
it's more like they're very Darth Vader is very very sad.
(15:01):
It's like, oh, man, my son don't like me. I mean,
I don't know because I haven't read the fan fiction,
but he's sad because also he's mainly robot and it's painful,
and it's painful. Yes, he's got a lot of reasons
to be sad. I'm not gonna take that away from
him at all. Is his own doing, yes, also true. Again,
(15:23):
I just feel like we're so much more ready to
forgive these male characters that we are women characters. Um
And just like Refa in recent Obi one, I remember
I paused. I was like, I already have it ready,
but I want to wait because I think there's gonna
be a reaction and to the final episode, and I
want to see if I if I'm right. And when
I thought was gonna happen, was people were going to
(15:48):
how to say this at this point, they were going
to look for a reason for her to die, no
matter what, like they wanted her to die no matter what,
Whereas with I feel like with Darth Vader, people would
be more like trying to find a way where he
could live. Um and we've talked about that too, where
like a lot of these sad murder dads never actually
(16:10):
have to do the work of the redemption part. They
just die. They die, yeah, and then they don't have
to deal with all the fallout. Um. Like, I think
that's still a powerful story of you know, oh yeah,
forgiveness whatever I make it. I'm making it sound really trite,
but I do think it's really it's a powerful story.
But ultimately you died before you had to deal with
(16:31):
the fall out the reality of mm hmmm. So yeah,
those are just my thoughts on this trope that I
frequently run across in Vanishtion. And I do think it's
very interesting because I think it's everywhere. Um, I think
it's I think it's very popular in pop culture. I
(16:51):
even saw kind of in The Boys, which I just watched.
I was like, huh, there it is, there it is.
It shows up in a few different ways, it really does.
The Boys is a whole different commentary because the first
couple of seasons were about mommy issues and now it's
gone on to daddy issues. So it's true the white spectrum,
(17:17):
Well prass will return, and we definitely do have something
coming up that we're excited to talk about with the
depiction of mothers in media in recent media, recent media. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so we're excited about that and uh, always excited to
talk about these topics. So thank you and cheers. Cheers
to Sad Murder Dam. Cheers to Sad Murder if you
(17:39):
were oh gosh, if you're around, I guess no, please stop,
and cheers to you for listening. As always, if there's
a topic you would like for us to cover, please
let us know. You can emails that stuff media mom
stuff at I hurt me dot com. You can viend
us on Twitter at Mom's podcast or Instagram that stuff
I never told you things. It's always you are super producer, Christina.
(18:01):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff I've
never told you. The subjection to I Heart Radio for more.
Podcast from my Heart Radio is at the Higher radew app,
Apple podcast or ever you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
Never told You production of iHeart Radio. And it is
time for another happy hour. Just bite the name. I
think this one's going to be mostly a happy hour,
(00:25):
or at least like a not unhappy hour, even though
we are going to talk about grief but not much
okay hour then, yes, it's okay. I think it's gonna
be like the kind of enjoyable ranting hour. But I
don't know if you like this kind of thing. I
think you'll be into it. But if you don't me Um, So,
as always with these segments, drink responsibly. Uh and what
(00:48):
are you sipping on? Say? You know how we talked
about trying to switch up our drinks and again, but
we still have our fave. Yeah, I'm drinking a fave.
So I'm drinking my vino verde from Trader Joe's not
a sponsor unless they want to give me a case
of this wine because I really like it. Um, But yeah,
I'm just sticking with that today. It sounds nice, sounds refreshing.
(01:10):
It is light and refreshing and appily. Okay, Well, I
kind of had a similar issue again, so last time
I made like a gin and tonic with beer. This time,
I made like a gin wine slushy tonic thing. Interesting. Yeah,
because my friend, I believe I've told the story before,
but I have a friend who Katie, who's on her
(01:33):
episode about women with red hair. She loves snacks and
I don't like snacks, so and she loves desserts and
I don't really eat dessert so she'll every time she
comes over. She has started to bring desserts and snacks
and things that she'll like, and she'll leave them here.
But that's part of the problem is I don't like
having that stuff around. But she did leave this whole
(01:53):
like case of these wine slushies. Oh yeah, And she's
become increasingly fresh with me that I won't drink them,
but I also won't throw them away. But I'm like, you,
maybe you'll want them one day, And she flat out
told me I'm never going to drink those because it's
become a point of pride now and so I'm trying
to be stubborn and drink them slowly. Yes. Um, So
(02:20):
today we are going to talk about a tripe I've
mentioned before. Um, the sad murdered dad trope. And I
know this sounds kind of dark, but the timing of
this is it's the anniversary of my dad's death. Um.
And you know, I was thinking, I feel like, in
the years since he's died, I still have occasions where
(02:42):
I just get so so sad. Um. And and one
of the things I do on the anniversary of his
death is I watched Our Wars, which, of course, um,
we love Star Wars together. We watched Oars together. I
can't hear open one without hearing him. Um. And the
sad murder Dad trope is I first heard of it
about Darth Vader, so he's the original sad murder Dad
(03:06):
in my book. UM. And I did get Samantha knows.
I did find this letter he wrote me. I have
not opened it yet. I still haven't opened it. I
can't do it. I'm going to, but it just feels
like it's gonna be such a big before and after.
Like once I opened that letter, I think it's gonna
change something. It could possibly be like legal documents and
(03:27):
I really need them. Um. I was cleaning out my
apartment and I just came across this letter that when
he gave it to me, he left it on my bed,
and when I found it, I was so angry. I
just was like, I would never open this, And now
I'm kind of sad because who knows what's in there.
Maybe it would have been important and changed the relationship,
but too bad. I will never know. I will open it,
(03:49):
I will, but not today, not for me, not for
a minute. Even though I said I was going to
do it on Father's Day and I never did, and
I said I was gonna do the next weekind and
I never did. I've picked it up and held it
and almost opened it several times and then like no
I can't, I can't. Um, you take your time, okay,
thank you. It just it does feel like it's going
(04:09):
to be a big I don't know. It feels like
it's gonna be life changing, or at least potentially like
temporarily life changing. Right, it's definitely no matter what, it's
your dad's words to you who you have been seen
because he passed away a few years ago and now
you have those bags again, and you just come to
the point of being like kind of okay with his
um because he didn't leave you in a good place.
(04:33):
That's you know, that's obviously, so you like could be
reopening wounds that you don't want to think about. So
absolutely that makes perfect sense. Yeah, yeah, it does. I
just I have this like I have to read it.
I have to read it because somebody said, like you
don't have to read it, like maybe you just don't
read it, Like no, I have to read it. Um.
So I'm just waiting for the time when I just
(04:54):
been worried it's going to really like the next two
weeks are going to be ruined or something like I'm
not gonna be able to work or I don't know.
And again it could just beat like the legal documents.
Who knows. I always got you to read it. I
was like, you open it and you tell me what
it is and then I can prepare. I can do
that for you. We'll see, We'll see it's sitting there
(05:15):
chaunting me. It's uh. And I did go home. I
went home to see my mom last weekend. And every
time I go home, that's pretty like the memories are
just everywhere. And then I've never been to busity his
grave and every time I kind of drive by it,
that's always that always gets me. That's that's a rough time.
But again, maybe one day I'll visit it. But all
(05:36):
of this to say, I am someone, as you know,
who loves anniversaries and traditions and marketing occasions, no matter
how sad they might be. So I am going to
talk about the sad murder Dad trope UM. And I
like to think my dad, who did love Star Wars
and Darth Vader and movies in general, would at least
get a kick out of it. So this is also
(05:59):
an on my mind because I very excitedly showed you.
I sent you pictures I finally got my I donated
to a oh three, which is the big nonprofit fan
fiction website, and I finally got They sent this deck
of cards as a thank you to everyone who donated,
and each of the cards has a trope a fan
fiction tag on it um and They're so cool and
(06:20):
I loved them and I'm going to show them to
you next time we hang out like everyone, um, But
sad murdered Dad was not in there. Oh no, well,
yeah I did get these pictures. I was very confused.
I'm like, what am I looking at? Explain because I
didn't know what was happening. And then of course you're like,
this is what I'll say. Oh, Okay, very exciting. I'm
(06:40):
really excited to see them all. You sent a very
confused text, that's for sure, because I sent like ten
pictures because that's a limit on my phone. I would
have sent you like just kept popping up, so I
was like, what what's happening? I think that was what's
happening right now with resence. Yes, they also didn't have
a cinema rolled, but they had a lot of my
(07:00):
favorite They had a lot of my favorite tags. But
if you don't know what the sad murdered dad trope is,
it's essentially exactly what it sounds like. Um. It is
a father figure um who uses violence and murder in
the name of their child. And it's very sad about it,
(07:23):
not about the murder, but it's just sad, just a
sad character. And and and Darth Vader is the first
time I ever saw that tag. And I he is
frequently displayed that way. He's frequently and I mean this
is I would say accurate as his character. He's very
possessive of Luke because he doesn't know Leah as his child.
(07:46):
When we see him very possessive, so like he can
hurt Luke, but no one else can hurt Luke, and
he will like kill anyone, including the Emperor for Luke.
There's a lot of violence in his name that Luke
doesn't want. But but he's also very sad as a character.
(08:08):
A lot of the introspections I've read very sad because
he missed out on Luke's life. He Luke doesn't want
to be with him after he makes the announcement UM,
the revelation I am your father, And it is a
really interesting trope and it's one I feel like now
that I have that name for it, which is kind
(08:30):
of a funny like fan fiction name UM for I
see it all the time UM. And we have talked
about it before. We talked about it in our Survival
video game series, like anytime we bring up the Last
of Us because Joel, I would say, is a sad
murder Dad. And that weekend where we did Star Wars
and Last of Us for my birthday even joked it
could be like sad murder Dad. Yes, shot to find
(08:53):
the perfect name, but I think it's a sad soup
day soup we can, I think, And it was great.
The soup was not sad that people no, no, but
I did cry. I remember you brought out that piece
of pie and I was crying and I was like, oh,
this is perfect I did. I did, so thank you.
(09:16):
Um So, as you know, I also love the Simon
Roll tag. That's my favorite, UM, which is just somebody
who's like a sweetheart, like the most genuine, sincere sweetheart.
And Luke has often portrayed that way, not always but often.
UM So if you get like the sad murder Dad
and then the Cinnamon Roll, I think like the dichotomy
(09:37):
there is very interesting because you've got somebody like Luke
who is like so sweet, and then Vader who's like
literally kind of this hul king monster who's killing everybody,
and yet um they're related. But I think like these
are heightened fan fiction terms. But again I think this
is the same thing that we see all the time.
(09:59):
Or they is a usually cut off, emotionally constipated man
who lost something someone usually his wife and or daughter
or a child, goes down a dark spiral, cuts off
from everybody, becomes violent, becomes cold, meats a child or
(10:25):
somebody usually a young girl. But in this case no um,
but like Joel with Ellie, where you meet a young
girl who's like the ultimate innocence. I wouldn't call her
quite as some mineral, but it's like that same idea
of that foil against each other and then the sad
murder dad in question slowly like learns to feel again. Yeah,
(10:50):
and then um, but in doing so does it in
a very violent and very like toxic masculinity way of
of killing everybody? Um? Yeah, And so I do think
when I think about the last of us, and I
know I've talked about this ad nauseum and I probably
(11:12):
will forever, Like I feel like people, I guess, I
just I have this question that I feel like I
know the answer to, But is why why are we
so willing to excuse violence and bad behavior for fathers
in particular? Well, while mothers are women who engage in
this behavior are evil or bad or failures. And we've
(11:35):
got a pretty good episode I think coming up where
we're going to talk about some of this stuff soon
about why we treat mothers just that way. But fathers
were like, Oh, but he's so sweet, he's trying, he
cares so much, He'll kill all those people. Isn't that good? Like?
Is it? It's like showing showing you care through violence.
(11:58):
That's not the person the cinnamon roll in question doesn't want,
in fact, really really doesn't want, but you're doing it
in their name, and it's supposed to be proof of
how much you care, because I think we just value
so much masculine behavior more. It's also more dramatic, like
I'll give you that, but it's not It is certainly
(12:20):
more I would say, a masculine realm. Yeah, yeah, And
then this is a bigger issue. Perhaps then we're going
(12:42):
to get into two in depth in this one. But
it is something I think about too where I can't
help but sort of psychoanalyze writers sometimes. And it seems
like we have a whole generation of writers who I
could be wrong. I don't know they're lives, but maybe
had a father who wasn't there that much, or like
(13:05):
they felt like as a kid they had to do
something to keep them around, or or just closed off. Again,
I could be totally wrong, but it's just like we
see these stories a lot. Maybe they feel that way
as fathers themselves, they feel like they're failing, they're so
their way at their job all the time writing these things.
I don't know, but it's just sort of like, I
see a lot of male writers continually writing these things,
(13:30):
and I'm just kind of curious, curious why. Indeed, indeed,
I read a funny article about it in Star Wars
and they were like why, because you know, like the
Mandalorian and Grogu is the same essentially, Like why we
keep seeing this dynamic of sort of a like closed off, cold,
violent man who's honestly not very good at a job. No,
(13:58):
I love him. I love Darth Vader, but he's also
not very good at his job. Like he's he's had
a lot of screw ups in his day. Sure, And
I was telling my friend the other day that's one
of my favorite parts of the end Return of the
Jedi is is because he kind of failed as a
Sip and Luke kind of failed as a Jedi, and
(14:18):
they chose each other in the end. But you know,
like a failure it makes a character interesting. But I
just saying, like this writer also made the point of
it's it's intriguing that we're seeing this play out many
times in this universe. It is indeed intriguing. You're right,
(14:39):
you are correct, You are correct. As much as I
have been complaining about it and We're big proponents of
being cognizant of your media and the messages you send.
I do love the trope on fan fiction. Usually in
fan fiction it's less violent, usually not always, but usually
it's more like they're very Darth Vader is very very sad.
(15:01):
It's like, oh, man, my son don't like me. I mean,
I don't know because I haven't read the fan fiction,
but he's sad because also he's mainly robot and it's painful,
and it's painful. Yes, he's got a lot of reasons
to be sad. I'm not gonna take that away from
him at all. Is his own doing, yes, also true. Again,
(15:23):
I just feel like we're so much more ready to
forgive these male characters that we are women characters. Um
And just like Refa in recent Obi one, I remember
I paused. I was like, I already have it ready,
but I want to wait because I think there's gonna
be a reaction and to the final episode, and I
want to see if I if I'm right. And when
I thought was gonna happen, was people were going to
(15:48):
how to say this at this point, they were going
to look for a reason for her to die, no
matter what, like they wanted her to die no matter what,
Whereas with I feel like with Darth Vader, people would
be more like trying to find a way where he
could live. Um and we've talked about that too, where
like a lot of these sad murder dads never actually
(16:10):
have to do the work of the redemption part. They
just die. They die, yeah, and then they don't have
to deal with all the fallout. Um. Like, I think
that's still a powerful story of you know, oh yeah,
forgiveness whatever I make it. I'm making it sound really trite,
but I do think it's really it's a powerful story.
But ultimately you died before you had to deal with
(16:31):
the fall out the reality of mm hmmm. So yeah,
those are just my thoughts on this trope that I
frequently run across in Vanishtion. And I do think it's
very interesting because I think it's everywhere. Um, I think
it's I think it's very popular in pop culture. I
(16:51):
even saw kind of in The Boys, which I just watched.
I was like, huh, there it is, there it is.
It shows up in a few different ways, it really does.
The Boys is a whole different commentary because the first
couple of seasons were about mommy issues and now it's
gone on to daddy issues. So it's true the white spectrum,
(17:17):
Well prass will return, and we definitely do have something
coming up that we're excited to talk about with the
depiction of mothers in media in recent media, recent media. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so we're excited about that and uh, always excited to
talk about these topics. So thank you and cheers. Cheers
to Sad Murder Dam. Cheers to Sad Murder if you
(17:39):
were oh gosh, if you're around, I guess no, please stop,
and cheers to you for listening. As always, if there's
a topic you would like for us to cover, please
let us know. You can emails that stuff media mom
stuff at I hurt me dot com. You can viend
us on Twitter at Mom's podcast or Instagram that stuff
I never told you things. It's always you are super producer, Christina.
(18:01):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff I've
never told you. The subjection to I Heart Radio for more.
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