November 10, 2022 • 20 mins
It's beginning to look a lot like Life Day! So let's talk about helmets, armor, Mandalorians and toxic masculinity!
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't alcome to stephone.
Never told you productually, I high radio and welcome to
another edition of a happy Hour. As always, if you
choose to do so, please drink responsibly. And yeah, what
(00:29):
are you sipping on, Samantha. So I'm keeping it simple
with my vodka Seltzer water that I'm not naming the
brand because I don't know if they're a good brand,
but I enjoy their drinks. I do know they're like
a big corporate type of brand. It is watermelon flavored.
Oh that's interesting because it's kind of like a rainy
November day here it is, I know, any like light
(00:51):
fruity Seltzer feels like it should be summer. But it's
good for me, especially because it's not exactly happy our
time in real time ourselves. So I'm keeping it low key. Yes, yes, uh.
And as you're listening to this, Um, the midterm elections
have just happens, and so we are going to be
(01:14):
talking about that, but just no, we know, you know,
and we're grappling with things. Um, yeah, and we'll be
we'll be talking about it, I'm sure for a long time.
I am drinking margarita, which I guess is also not
super weather on point, but stacious and refreshing. And it
is actually hot my closet because these lights. She gets
(01:36):
very hot. I do get very hot, and I'm a
cold natured person, right, yeah, but it's a it's a
small space. And also, as I've told Samantha, this episode
is probably gonna get me all riled up, so she's
been preparing. I have been preparing, and in fact, this
outline a little peek behind the scenes. Normally we do
(01:58):
a much more structured outline unless it's something super conversational.
This is something that I have just done bullet points
randomly for months. Um, so it's just kind of a
hodgepodge of emotions from me. There's a lot of question
marks and exclamation points in this outline. There are, and
(02:21):
I do want to preface this in a multiple multiple ways. Okay,
So number one, I think we should come back and
talk about this more in depth. I know not everyone
will be excited about that, but I will be, and
sometimes that's all that matters. Two, there's two reasons I
wanted to talk about this, which is we are talking
(02:42):
about my thoughts around toxic masculinity and Mandalorians from Star
wars Field. I have so many feels we can't even
I'm going to keep this short, but believe me, this
could be a fifteen hour mini series. So there are
two reasons this was not my mind. Um. One is
(03:03):
my mom, my sweet mom, when we were recently hanging out,
asked me what she thought would be a simple question,
which is what is a Mandalorian? And thirty minutes later
she was like, oh really, I was literally going on
for thirty minutes, Um, because it's complicated. It's complicated. And also,
(03:30):
when I was recently at Dragon Con, not one but
two men told me the whole reason they didn't like
Book of Boba Fette, which I have plenty of issues with,
but the whole reason they didn't like it was because
Boba Fette took off his helmet. And this just got
(03:50):
my brain turning. I got my thoughts, my feminist thoughts
were going. Samantha. I was like, that's interesting. I also
have to say I held back from doing the biggest,
most annoying well actually because is not a Mandalorian. Can
(04:11):
you imagine if I said that, Oh my god, oh no,
it would have been very, very terrible. So also to
preface this, I do love Mandalorians. You can critique things
you love. I think that that's totally legitimate. But I
think this this idea of the Mandalorian which if you're
(04:34):
not clear, and it is confusing, as it took thirty
minutes for me to even try to explain this to
my mom. Basically, they are a people, a creed. I've
mistakenly said race before. They're not a race. They're they're
like a people or creed. Um. That's where the resinal
there or basically like the six tenants of being a Mandalorian. Um.
(04:56):
So anybody can do it if you possess the there's
a word, there's a Mandalorian word for Bandokar or something. Um.
But so so anybody could do it. Um. They do
have a planet Mandalore was destroyed by the Empire, who
they had worked with. Their armor is like sacred to them.
Weapons are their religion. As they say, they're very warrior,
(05:19):
combat type of people. They respect things like that. Um.
And it is one of those things where, oh gosh,
I can talk about this for so long. But basically,
like I do, I see a lot of women, especially
in fan fiction romanticizing kind of that like strong man
(05:39):
with the you know under the armor can't be touched.
Is that he's emotionally distant, has a lot of responsibilities,
a lot of emotions, just ruminating all aside. Yes, that
kind of brooding uh shell that maybe you can crack
(06:00):
or maybe he's the one you gotta fix exactly doesn't
love fixing men. I know, and I you know, I
have a whole other episode coming out about that. Um,
but yeah, it is kind of that idea. And this
isn't new. We talked about this on this show a lot.
But I think that the fact that two men told
(06:21):
me that's what bothered them about Book of Bubba Fett
really struck me because essentially then it becomes I hadn't
really considered the idea of here is a character who
and I'm speaking of the Mandalorian specifically here, um, but
here's a character who doesn't remove his helmet, who speaks
(06:44):
in kind of a monotone through a modulator voice modulator,
doesn't remove his armor. And that is such a like
physical costuming representation of this idea of like the stowitz
ism of like no one can know you if you
have to be strong you have to be no one
(07:04):
can hurt you like this. And the fact that that's
what made them mad about that whole show is that
he showed his face. I find very fascinating. Right to me,
I need to know, because I was like, is it really, Pascal?
Is it is it? And then I was like, Okay,
maybe it is. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. I'm
(07:27):
assuming it's a stand. In the entire time, I think
it was. Yeah, And I just like that whole thing
of that you won't show anybody your face, And then
you get him with this, you know, super cute little baby,
and he's starting to show cracks in his shell. Yeah,
(07:50):
who commits genn A side by the way, Look, don't
get me started all that everybody, And I was like,
what is happening? Why does no one? Why is everyone
okay with this? Why is mama like that's okay? I
gotta love. I love for people who haven't seen this show,
(08:10):
you're listening like, what are you talking about? Exactly exactly
And and you know I made this joke before, but
Patro Pascal, who plays Mandalorian, is playing Joel from the
last About in the upcoming show, and it's a similar thing,
and we've talked about that where there's a lot of
I think a lot of forgiveness we're willing to give,
(08:31):
and a lot of ground we're willing to give, and
a lot of like frankly, fan love we're willing to
give to this male character who's so stoic, who's wearing
this mask, like you can't know so strong. What does
he say in the trailer? He says in the game too,
like you don't know what lass he is? Like he does,
she does exactly, she does, she does exactly, And we're
(08:53):
so like, but he's so sweet though he's been through
so much, Like we're so ready to really forgive that,
and especially in this space. I mean, women do it
in fan fiction. I've seen it, I've read it, I've
written it, like I get it, but I've also like
men seem to do it in terms of and I
(09:14):
don't want to say everybody, but it's like maybe these
men specifically we're talking about the mask, like they do
it when they see that character. It's almost like that's
his positive is that he's you know, emotionally cut off, untouchable, whatever.
He's so stoic, you can't see his face, but he's
(09:35):
still being kind to this child who is so innocent
and heavy quotes like the most innocent thing you can
think of, look Samantha. If I started talking about pro
who slash painter Yoda, I don't know what's gonna happen,
but I think we might be canceled. I just feel
(10:11):
like the way Mandalorians are written, which is a very
again warrior class, and there are plenty of women who
are Mandalorians. Don't be wrong, but they have kind of
a more masculine vibe. I've seen a lot of hypocrisy
and how they judge people judge Mandalorians versus how they
judge like anything else anybody else in Star wars Um,
(10:33):
even if it's the exact Sainct scenario, and it's kind
of something where I think it's this idea. It's the
same idea where we're very, very willing to accept violence
as a form of showing love or compassion or whatever,
especially this kind of masculine way of of being violent
(10:58):
and perhaps beings it off. It's just all daddy issues,
It is all of it. I mean, he's got like
a trigger loose where you're just trying to set me off. Sorry,
I'm sorry, and just like I'm not gonna lie. I
finished she Hulk last night, and I can come back
and talk about that. But she was right, she was right.
She wasn't And I actually did want to bring that
(11:19):
up because you and I both talked about how I
was kind of hesitant to say I liked it at
first because I had heard so many negative things about it.
So awesome, I don't understand it's it's it's very very fun,
it's very very new feeling. I feel like it did
a bunch of things where I was like, as a woman,
like yes, yes, yes, and then it definitely has his
(11:41):
problems and we are going to come back and talk
about it. But I was afraid to say I liked
it because I'd heard all these negative things about it.
I really thought was going to be one of the
worst shows ever. My expectations were. Lona came in and
both my partner and I, who he is a critic,
we're dying laughing throughout and getting all of the jokes
because it was so too real. It too real. Yes,
(12:01):
oh my gosh, I can't wait till we talked about I.
I wanted to bring it up in this conversation, because
I do think I have also heard mostly men, but
some women who feel much more comfortable being more vocal
about liking something that is masculine coded. And I would
say that Mandalorian is very masculine coded. And then isn't
(12:22):
the Mandalorian in itself kind of the beginning of like
the men who are like, yes, I've been waiting for
this bounty hunter to be the man who couldn't survive,
like he didn't survive on the damn movies, barely barely
survived in the Oh don't give me, oh my God,
don't get me started on both fit anyway. Yes, no,
(12:44):
that's exactly what I'm talking about, though. That's one of
the things like I really like the Mandalorian. I think
it's very enjoyable. But one of the things that never
really worked for me is I felt like they were
telegraphing too hard that he's the best, most amazing bounty
hunter river and I was like, but is he because
he keeps failing, especially he got back, but it makes
(13:05):
him an interesting character. There's nothing wrong with that, but
they were trying too hard to be like, he's this
Western guy, he's got no feelings he's so tough, like
they were just trying too hard to tell me who
he was instead of actually doing the work of showing
me who he is. And um, I have heard so
many men who I feel like when they tell me
(13:29):
why they like the Mandalorian, it's almost become a sort
of red flag for me, like nothing, you're wrong, which again,
I love the show. I love the show. I it's
just when I hear certain praise of it where I'm like,
I think you might be missing the point, which, as
you know, is one of my big critiques of New
Star Wars stuff, and especially how I think people misunderstood,
(13:51):
mostly men, the end of Return the Jedi. But I'll
just hear these guys talk about it like, oh, he
took off his mask. He's that means it's not worth watching,
Like I don't know that you're upholding the thing that
you should be upholding, which it sounds like it's very toxic.
Stoic masculinity doesn't give show any emotions, and when he does,
(14:11):
he should be so rewarded that he did. Right. Why yeah,
why are we giving accolades to someone who just finally
shows that they care so compassion and empathy should be
awarded if it's minimal, apparently, and if you're hostile and
abusive before and you change to have one inkling of it,
(14:33):
then you will now get a crown. Yes, And this
is not unique to the Mandalorian at all, Like we
see this all the time. I feel like this is
in romance all the time, of the woman who wears
the man down, because it's this level of this conversation
of women fighting for men to help them to become
the better man, and that's supposed to be the end
(14:54):
all instead of them just being good men, right, and
so heteronormative but very much so. And also like we
don't have time to talking about this today, but I
was thinking about that in terms of that means like
you could translate that to mean we still infantilize women
because we're putting them in this childish role of you know,
maybe it's a cute baby Yoda doing it, or maybe
(15:18):
it's like a young woman who's doing it, Like it's
very much this innocent character who brings this really stoic,
traumatized man out of his shell. And as we've talked
about before, like we have such different standards for women
in that role, Like if the Mandalorian was a woman,
(15:40):
there'd be way more judgments about her skills as a parent. Oh,
she sent him to fix an electric thing or whatever.
Wasn't there a whole thing with the woman Mantalorian who
came in and already had her mask off, like her
being too emotional? Yes? Yes, And I have a whole
I have a whole thing about like Jedi Vandalorian relationships
(16:03):
because I feel like Jedi really teachers and they've been
really feminized and the Mandalorians have been really mascinalized. Yeah,
but I guess who's still standing neither ones? So that
that is, I know, truth, truth painful. It's painful. Um.
There's also an interesting saying that Mandalorians have so gosh,
(16:25):
I have gone so deep down the rabbit hole. But
I know, like the mandalorin marriage vowels, okay, and they
are they were supposed to be married, supposed to be Mandalorians. Yeah,
oh yeah, Mandalorians are all about like and their according
rituals are all about combat and proving and like you're
so worthy. But they they're final phrase in their um
wedding vowels or we will raise warriors, and then they
(16:48):
have a saying like, no one judges you by your father,
only the father you will be, which I find really
interesting because also they're very hypocrital. They don't do that.
But again, going back to those daddy issues, I'm kind
of wondering if the people who like made this mythos
of the Mandalorians. I've said it before, I've said it
begin a suspect they might have had some true with
(17:10):
their parents, and you know, it could just be they
were trying to do a like a Darth Vader kind
of thing. But I don't think so. I don't maybe
I don't think so, though I will say we are
preparing while I've been preparing episodes on religious trauma outside
of family drama. Star Wars is a huge religious trauma
and Mandalorians, especially the Creed that the Mandalorian into jar
(17:36):
and follows, is very religious trauma that is oof oof um.
So there is that level of feeling like you know,
you've been raised in this system that's telling you you
can't show your face, you can't give your name, you
can't be your true self, which I think you could
make an argument about like the patriarchy and that will
(17:59):
I do it, yes, but not right now. I have
a note here that is telling me to stop getting
so mad. That is so funny I wrote it down.
I think it's because I know, I know, Star Wars
fans are really passionate and people have really strong opinions
about these things. I have very strong opinions about these things.
(18:21):
It often devolves into a Mandalorian versus Jedi thing, and
I'm trying not to do that right here, but oh
boy could I? Um, I don't think this means by
any any stretch that Mandalorians deserved what the Empire did
to them. That was very complicated. We talked about it
that in our Setine Crees episode kind of some of
(18:41):
the dynamics they are, and also Sabine Sebtine and Sabine different. Yes,
so if you if you want to check that out
for sure, Um, but I guess, like mostly I'm kind
of perplexed that those dudes said that to me. I
really was sort of shocked that that was their reason
they it, And like the entire show is that he
(19:02):
took off his helmet, And then I'm kind of annoyed
at the free pass we seem to give these you know,
sort of stoic men who might be nice sometimes compared
to women or I I don't know. Like again, I
like this, I really like that. I've written it, I've
read it, I get it. But we do seem as
(19:25):
as a society to be like, oh yeah, I love him.
I know he's kind of a jerk, but we don't
do that for a lot of other like women or
things like that. So those are my thoughts. I have
a lot I could keep. I will revisit this one day,
I'm sure. But I didn't get I'm gonna be so tit, Samantha.
(19:51):
I'm gonna be so tit the whole time. But yes,
I'm sure we will revisit it then. Um. In the meantime,
thank you for bearing with me and for listening. People
don't know. Cheers, cheers to you. Cheers yes, yes, yes.
If you would like to contact us with your your
(20:13):
thoughts about Mantalorians fan fictions, because wow, do people there's
a lot of fans in around Mandalorians, I'll tell you that. Um.
You can email us at stuff Eia Mom, stuff at
iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at most of podcast or Instagram and stuff one never
told you. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
(20:34):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff. Whenever
told you the protection of iHeart Radio for a podcast
in My Heart Radio, you can check out the I
radio app, Apple podcast or where you listen to your
favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't alcome to stephone.
Never told you productually, I high radio and welcome to
another edition of a happy Hour. As always, if you
choose to do so, please drink responsibly. And yeah, what
(00:29):
are you sipping on, Samantha. So I'm keeping it simple
with my vodka Seltzer water that I'm not naming the
brand because I don't know if they're a good brand,
but I enjoy their drinks. I do know they're like
a big corporate type of brand. It is watermelon flavored.
Oh that's interesting because it's kind of like a rainy
November day here it is, I know, any like light
(00:51):
fruity Seltzer feels like it should be summer. But it's
good for me, especially because it's not exactly happy our
time in real time ourselves. So I'm keeping it low key. Yes, yes, uh.
And as you're listening to this, Um, the midterm elections
have just happens, and so we are going to be
(01:14):
talking about that, but just no, we know, you know,
and we're grappling with things. Um, yeah, and we'll be
we'll be talking about it, I'm sure for a long time.
I am drinking margarita, which I guess is also not
super weather on point, but stacious and refreshing. And it
is actually hot my closet because these lights. She gets
(01:36):
very hot. I do get very hot, and I'm a
cold natured person, right, yeah, but it's a it's a
small space. And also, as I've told Samantha, this episode
is probably gonna get me all riled up, so she's
been preparing. I have been preparing, and in fact, this
outline a little peek behind the scenes. Normally we do
(01:58):
a much more structured outline unless it's something super conversational.
This is something that I have just done bullet points
randomly for months. Um, so it's just kind of a
hodgepodge of emotions from me. There's a lot of question
marks and exclamation points in this outline. There are, and
(02:21):
I do want to preface this in a multiple multiple ways. Okay,
So number one, I think we should come back and
talk about this more in depth. I know not everyone
will be excited about that, but I will be, and
sometimes that's all that matters. Two, there's two reasons I
wanted to talk about this, which is we are talking
(02:42):
about my thoughts around toxic masculinity and Mandalorians from Star
wars Field. I have so many feels we can't even
I'm going to keep this short, but believe me, this
could be a fifteen hour mini series. So there are
two reasons this was not my mind. Um. One is
(03:03):
my mom, my sweet mom, when we were recently hanging out,
asked me what she thought would be a simple question,
which is what is a Mandalorian? And thirty minutes later
she was like, oh really, I was literally going on
for thirty minutes, Um, because it's complicated. It's complicated. And also,
(03:30):
when I was recently at Dragon Con, not one but
two men told me the whole reason they didn't like
Book of Boba Fette, which I have plenty of issues with,
but the whole reason they didn't like it was because
Boba Fette took off his helmet. And this just got
(03:50):
my brain turning. I got my thoughts, my feminist thoughts
were going. Samantha. I was like, that's interesting. I also
have to say I held back from doing the biggest,
most annoying well actually because is not a Mandalorian. Can
(04:11):
you imagine if I said that, Oh my god, oh no,
it would have been very, very terrible. So also to
preface this, I do love Mandalorians. You can critique things
you love. I think that that's totally legitimate. But I
think this this idea of the Mandalorian which if you're
(04:34):
not clear, and it is confusing, as it took thirty
minutes for me to even try to explain this to
my mom. Basically, they are a people, a creed. I've
mistakenly said race before. They're not a race. They're they're
like a people or creed. Um. That's where the resinal
there or basically like the six tenants of being a Mandalorian. Um.
(04:56):
So anybody can do it if you possess the there's
a word, there's a Mandalorian word for Bandokar or something. Um.
But so so anybody could do it. Um. They do
have a planet Mandalore was destroyed by the Empire, who
they had worked with. Their armor is like sacred to them.
Weapons are their religion. As they say, they're very warrior,
(05:19):
combat type of people. They respect things like that. Um.
And it is one of those things where, oh gosh,
I can talk about this for so long. But basically,
like I do, I see a lot of women, especially
in fan fiction romanticizing kind of that like strong man
(05:39):
with the you know under the armor can't be touched.
Is that he's emotionally distant, has a lot of responsibilities,
a lot of emotions, just ruminating all aside. Yes, that
kind of brooding uh shell that maybe you can crack
(06:00):
or maybe he's the one you gotta fix exactly doesn't
love fixing men. I know, and I you know, I
have a whole other episode coming out about that. Um,
but yeah, it is kind of that idea. And this
isn't new. We talked about this on this show a lot.
But I think that the fact that two men told
(06:21):
me that's what bothered them about Book of Bubba Fett
really struck me because essentially then it becomes I hadn't
really considered the idea of here is a character who
and I'm speaking of the Mandalorian specifically here, um, but
here's a character who doesn't remove his helmet, who speaks
(06:44):
in kind of a monotone through a modulator voice modulator,
doesn't remove his armor. And that is such a like
physical costuming representation of this idea of like the stowitz
ism of like no one can know you if you
have to be strong you have to be no one
(07:04):
can hurt you like this. And the fact that that's
what made them mad about that whole show is that
he showed his face. I find very fascinating. Right to me,
I need to know, because I was like, is it really, Pascal?
Is it is it? And then I was like, Okay,
maybe it is. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. I'm
(07:27):
assuming it's a stand. In the entire time, I think
it was. Yeah, And I just like that whole thing
of that you won't show anybody your face, And then
you get him with this, you know, super cute little baby,
and he's starting to show cracks in his shell. Yeah,
(07:50):
who commits genn A side by the way, Look, don't
get me started all that everybody, And I was like,
what is happening? Why does no one? Why is everyone
okay with this? Why is mama like that's okay? I
gotta love. I love for people who haven't seen this show,
(08:10):
you're listening like, what are you talking about? Exactly exactly
And and you know I made this joke before, but
Patro Pascal, who plays Mandalorian, is playing Joel from the
last About in the upcoming show, and it's a similar thing,
and we've talked about that where there's a lot of
I think a lot of forgiveness we're willing to give,
(08:31):
and a lot of ground we're willing to give, and
a lot of like frankly, fan love we're willing to
give to this male character who's so stoic, who's wearing
this mask, like you can't know so strong. What does
he say in the trailer? He says in the game too,
like you don't know what lass he is? Like he does,
she does exactly, she does, she does exactly, And we're
(08:53):
so like, but he's so sweet though he's been through
so much, Like we're so ready to really forgive that,
and especially in this space. I mean, women do it
in fan fiction. I've seen it, I've read it, I've
written it, like I get it, but I've also like
men seem to do it in terms of and I
(09:14):
don't want to say everybody, but it's like maybe these
men specifically we're talking about the mask, like they do
it when they see that character. It's almost like that's
his positive is that he's you know, emotionally cut off, untouchable, whatever.
He's so stoic, you can't see his face, but he's
(09:35):
still being kind to this child who is so innocent
and heavy quotes like the most innocent thing you can
think of, look Samantha. If I started talking about pro
who slash painter Yoda, I don't know what's gonna happen,
but I think we might be canceled. I just feel
(10:11):
like the way Mandalorians are written, which is a very
again warrior class, and there are plenty of women who
are Mandalorians. Don't be wrong, but they have kind of
a more masculine vibe. I've seen a lot of hypocrisy
and how they judge people judge Mandalorians versus how they
judge like anything else anybody else in Star wars Um,
(10:33):
even if it's the exact Sainct scenario, and it's kind
of something where I think it's this idea. It's the
same idea where we're very, very willing to accept violence
as a form of showing love or compassion or whatever,
especially this kind of masculine way of of being violent
(10:58):
and perhaps beings it off. It's just all daddy issues,
It is all of it. I mean, he's got like
a trigger loose where you're just trying to set me off. Sorry,
I'm sorry, and just like I'm not gonna lie. I
finished she Hulk last night, and I can come back
and talk about that. But she was right, she was right.
She wasn't And I actually did want to bring that
(11:19):
up because you and I both talked about how I
was kind of hesitant to say I liked it at
first because I had heard so many negative things about it.
So awesome, I don't understand it's it's it's very very fun,
it's very very new feeling. I feel like it did
a bunch of things where I was like, as a woman,
like yes, yes, yes, and then it definitely has his
(11:41):
problems and we are going to come back and talk
about it. But I was afraid to say I liked
it because I'd heard all these negative things about it.
I really thought was going to be one of the
worst shows ever. My expectations were. Lona came in and
both my partner and I, who he is a critic,
we're dying laughing throughout and getting all of the jokes
because it was so too real. It too real. Yes,
(12:01):
oh my gosh, I can't wait till we talked about I.
I wanted to bring it up in this conversation, because
I do think I have also heard mostly men, but
some women who feel much more comfortable being more vocal
about liking something that is masculine coded. And I would
say that Mandalorian is very masculine coded. And then isn't
(12:22):
the Mandalorian in itself kind of the beginning of like
the men who are like, yes, I've been waiting for
this bounty hunter to be the man who couldn't survive,
like he didn't survive on the damn movies, barely barely
survived in the Oh don't give me, oh my God,
don't get me started on both fit anyway. Yes, no,
(12:44):
that's exactly what I'm talking about, though. That's one of
the things like I really like the Mandalorian. I think
it's very enjoyable. But one of the things that never
really worked for me is I felt like they were
telegraphing too hard that he's the best, most amazing bounty
hunter river and I was like, but is he because
he keeps failing, especially he got back, but it makes
(13:05):
him an interesting character. There's nothing wrong with that, but
they were trying too hard to be like, he's this
Western guy, he's got no feelings he's so tough, like
they were just trying too hard to tell me who
he was instead of actually doing the work of showing
me who he is. And um, I have heard so
many men who I feel like when they tell me
(13:29):
why they like the Mandalorian, it's almost become a sort
of red flag for me, like nothing, you're wrong, which again,
I love the show. I love the show. I it's
just when I hear certain praise of it where I'm like,
I think you might be missing the point, which, as
you know, is one of my big critiques of New
Star Wars stuff, and especially how I think people misunderstood,
(13:51):
mostly men, the end of Return the Jedi. But I'll
just hear these guys talk about it like, oh, he
took off his mask. He's that means it's not worth watching,
Like I don't know that you're upholding the thing that
you should be upholding, which it sounds like it's very toxic.
Stoic masculinity doesn't give show any emotions, and when he does,
(14:11):
he should be so rewarded that he did. Right. Why yeah,
why are we giving accolades to someone who just finally
shows that they care so compassion and empathy should be
awarded if it's minimal, apparently, and if you're hostile and
abusive before and you change to have one inkling of it,
(14:33):
then you will now get a crown. Yes, And this
is not unique to the Mandalorian at all, Like we
see this all the time. I feel like this is
in romance all the time, of the woman who wears
the man down, because it's this level of this conversation
of women fighting for men to help them to become
the better man, and that's supposed to be the end
(14:54):
all instead of them just being good men, right, and
so heteronormative but very much so. And also like we
don't have time to talking about this today, but I
was thinking about that in terms of that means like
you could translate that to mean we still infantilize women
because we're putting them in this childish role of you know,
maybe it's a cute baby Yoda doing it, or maybe
(15:18):
it's like a young woman who's doing it, Like it's
very much this innocent character who brings this really stoic,
traumatized man out of his shell. And as we've talked
about before, like we have such different standards for women
in that role, Like if the Mandalorian was a woman,
(15:40):
there'd be way more judgments about her skills as a parent. Oh,
she sent him to fix an electric thing or whatever.
Wasn't there a whole thing with the woman Mantalorian who
came in and already had her mask off, like her
being too emotional? Yes? Yes, And I have a whole
I have a whole thing about like Jedi Vandalorian relationships
(16:03):
because I feel like Jedi really teachers and they've been
really feminized and the Mandalorians have been really mascinalized. Yeah,
but I guess who's still standing neither ones? So that
that is, I know, truth, truth painful. It's painful. Um.
There's also an interesting saying that Mandalorians have so gosh,
(16:25):
I have gone so deep down the rabbit hole. But
I know, like the mandalorin marriage vowels, okay, and they
are they were supposed to be married, supposed to be Mandalorians. Yeah,
oh yeah, Mandalorians are all about like and their according
rituals are all about combat and proving and like you're
so worthy. But they they're final phrase in their um
wedding vowels or we will raise warriors, and then they
(16:48):
have a saying like, no one judges you by your father,
only the father you will be, which I find really
interesting because also they're very hypocrital. They don't do that.
But again, going back to those daddy issues, I'm kind
of wondering if the people who like made this mythos
of the Mandalorians. I've said it before, I've said it
begin a suspect they might have had some true with
(17:10):
their parents, and you know, it could just be they
were trying to do a like a Darth Vader kind
of thing. But I don't think so. I don't maybe
I don't think so, though I will say we are
preparing while I've been preparing episodes on religious trauma outside
of family drama. Star Wars is a huge religious trauma
and Mandalorians, especially the Creed that the Mandalorian into jar
(17:36):
and follows, is very religious trauma that is oof oof um.
So there is that level of feeling like you know,
you've been raised in this system that's telling you you
can't show your face, you can't give your name, you
can't be your true self, which I think you could
make an argument about like the patriarchy and that will
(17:59):
I do it, yes, but not right now. I have
a note here that is telling me to stop getting
so mad. That is so funny I wrote it down.
I think it's because I know, I know, Star Wars
fans are really passionate and people have really strong opinions
about these things. I have very strong opinions about these things.
(18:21):
It often devolves into a Mandalorian versus Jedi thing, and
I'm trying not to do that right here, but oh
boy could I? Um, I don't think this means by
any any stretch that Mandalorians deserved what the Empire did
to them. That was very complicated. We talked about it
that in our Setine Crees episode kind of some of
(18:41):
the dynamics they are, and also Sabine Sebtine and Sabine different. Yes,
so if you if you want to check that out
for sure, Um, but I guess, like mostly I'm kind
of perplexed that those dudes said that to me. I
really was sort of shocked that that was their reason
they it, And like the entire show is that he
(19:02):
took off his helmet, And then I'm kind of annoyed
at the free pass we seem to give these you know,
sort of stoic men who might be nice sometimes compared
to women or I I don't know. Like again, I
like this, I really like that. I've written it, I've
read it, I get it. But we do seem as
(19:25):
as a society to be like, oh yeah, I love him.
I know he's kind of a jerk, but we don't
do that for a lot of other like women or
things like that. So those are my thoughts. I have
a lot I could keep. I will revisit this one day,
I'm sure. But I didn't get I'm gonna be so tit, Samantha.
(19:51):
I'm gonna be so tit the whole time. But yes,
I'm sure we will revisit it then. Um. In the meantime,
thank you for bearing with me and for listening. People
don't know. Cheers, cheers to you. Cheers yes, yes, yes.
If you would like to contact us with your your
(20:13):
thoughts about Mantalorians fan fictions, because wow, do people there's
a lot of fans in around Mandalorians, I'll tell you that. Um.
You can email us at stuff Eia Mom, stuff at
iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at most of podcast or Instagram and stuff one never
told you. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
(20:34):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff. Whenever
told you the protection of iHeart Radio for a podcast
in My Heart Radio, you can check out the I
radio app, Apple podcast or where you listen to your
favorite shows.
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