How Aretha Franklin's RESPECT Became a Take No Sh*t Anthem

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're
listening the stuff Mom never told you. Now today I'm
sort of mildly in morning. I guess maybe morning is
too strong because you know, everyone dies, but we lost

(00:29):
a real one. I am talking none other than the
Queen of Soul herself, Aretha Franklin. She passed away from
pancreatic cancer at the age of seventy six on August six. Now,
something I should sort of right off the bat say,
is that me with a microphone with free rain to
talk about really any musical icon that I that I admire,

(00:51):
but especially Aretha Franklin. That is a recipe for a
six hour podcast that no one would listen to or enjoy. Um.
So I'll try to rate it in, you know, for
for that reason, I want to be very clear in
no way as this episode meant to be a you know,
encapsulation of her entire life. Yes, you're leaving a ton out. Yes,
there are so so much we could say. I mean,

(01:13):
she's a Queen of Soul, for God's sake, she's royalty. Um,
but you know, just out of respect, out of r
E S E E c T for the Queen, we
had to do a little something really talking about a
little bit about her life and one of her most
iconic songs, respect Yeah, yeah, I remember the first time

(01:35):
I heard that song. I remember where I was, and
I was like back in the time of cassette players,
and I had recorded it off of the radio with
like I had one of those really dumb looking child ones,
you know that was like red and had big yellow
buttons in the microphone. I held it up to the radio,

(01:56):
so the sound quality was terrible. I know exactly what
you're talking about. Had the little chord the microphone had
that curly chord. Yes, I can. I can see it
when I shtually close my eyes. I know exactly what
you're talking about. Yes, I I got it off the
radio and at the time, like I just remember sitting
in my room with the lights off and the headphones

(02:17):
and just like listening to this very poor sound quality
version of respect via Oh man, it's such I mean,
it is one of those songs where I feel like
you remember, if not the first time you heard it,
you remember the first time you heard it, you know
what I'm saying, Like, maybe you don't recall the exact
first time you ever actually heard it, but you remember

(02:41):
the first time it like hit you. You know, I
think that we all have that moment. Oh yeah, I'm
such a fan of a reason Franklin. Um my favorite
song by her, I mean, there's so many to name,
but my favorite is probably rock Steady. It's probably her.
I think it's her funkiest UM. I know, I always
said if I was ever gonna get married, I would
walk down the ile to baby, I love you, um

(03:03):
because she just had She had this way of capturing
what it felt like to be in love where it
maybe isn't super clean, maybe it isn't super you know,
maybe you have a complicated relationship, but you still love
the person. And you know, there were there are singers
that sing about love and romantic love where that love
doesn't feel like the love I've had in my life,

(03:23):
And there are singers that sing about romantic love and
I think that sounds like what my experience has been
with love. And Arida Franklin is one of those of
low singers, and I think it's one of the reasons
why I find myself so drawn to her. So in
thinking about the song respect, one of the things that
I think is so tantamount to why that song exists

(03:46):
as this powerhouse anthem. It is a bit sad, which
is that she she did have a pretty tough, sad
upbringing that she wasn't super vocal about. She kind of
suffered in silence about a lot of the the heavier
aspects of her life. Yeah, and and for a quick
kind of early biography. She was born in ninety two

(04:06):
in Memphis as the fourth of her mother's five children,
but her home wasn't a stable one. Her mother, Barbara's
siggers Franklin Um, who had a child from a previous relationship,
left the family when Aretha was six years old, and
many characterized her leaving as abandonment, but Franklin starkly disputed

(04:27):
this idea quote. In no way, shape, form or fashion
did our mother desert us, she wrote in her autobiography
Aretha from these Roots, she was extremely responsible, loving and caring.
After her mom died when she was ten, her father,
Reverend Clarence Lavan otherwise known as C. L. Franklin, moved

(04:48):
the family to Detroit. Um. So I should say a
lot of information that we have here are from various
newspaper accounts and interviews and so we say where those
are where that is the case. But the you kind
of biggest definitive books about her life are one the
book that you just mentioned Annie, her autobiography Aretha from
These Roots, and to the book Respect the Life Worth

(05:12):
to Franklin. Now, the same writer worked on both of
these books. David Ritz was her biographer, and so Ritz
and her partnered for her her autobiography Aretha. But the
book Respect Areta actually wasn't so into that book. I
just need to say that as a disclaimer. Um she

(05:32):
just she says that the book is full of lies
and distortions and all of that. So to be very clear,
she pushed back on a lot of how Ritz characterized
her in that book, despite the fact they had worked
together on her actual autobiography years earlier. So this is
a disclaimer for the information that we're getting. So according
to that that book by Ritz, her father, this this

(05:55):
reverend Uh, I guess we could say that he was
conventional guy. Um Rich alleges that his congregation was sort
of a sexually hedonistic place, that he was a bit
of a playboy, and that his his church services would
often turn into you know, I mean, he uses the

(06:17):
word Orgies. I don't. I didn't want to say that.
But and he actually has this anecdote that Rayed Charles,
who if you know about rached Charles's life, he was
someone who was you know, he liked the ladies and
he likes he liked to party. That one day that
Rayed Charles went to her father's UH congregation and was
shocked and appalled by what he saw because it was
that hedonistic Um again pointing out that Aretha Franklin claims

(06:42):
that this this book is full of distortions and lies
and none of this ever happened. Um, but that is
how he characterized her father, and her father was a
very big part of who raised her after her mother
left their family. Yeah, and Um Franklin. Aretha Franklin had
her first child at twelve, and she later dropped out

(07:02):
of school to focus on her singing. Quote. We were
part of that generation of young female singers who definitely
sacrificed time with our kids to attend to our careers.
We did so knowingly, That's what Franklin's eldest sister said
in the book. We also did so with heavy guilt.
She continued, Yeah, it seems like they were just part

(07:23):
of that generation where if you had a dream, you know,
I mean, it's difficult to be a woman with a
creative ambitions in general, but if you had a dream,
you kind of had to figure out how you were
going to make make it all work. And you know,
she was a very early mother and figuring out how
to navigate that. It's hard enough, but figuring how to

(07:44):
how to navigate that and the ambitious dream. And I
can't imagine how how pulled she must have felt in
multiple directions. Her grandmother also had a big hand in
raising her children. I still wanted to get out and
hang out with my friends, Franklin told ebany In about
being a young mother. Um, and she continued, I wanted

(08:07):
to be in two places at the same time. But
my grandmother helped me a lot, and my sister and
my cousin they would babysit so I could get out occasionally. Oh,
I relate to wanting to be in two places at
the same time so much. Yeah, she probably wanted to
be there with her kids, but also wanted to be
singing on the road performing because that was her passion.
And again she said, interesting illustration of being in a

(08:30):
society that makes you choose. You know you can't. You
don't feel right about being able to do them both,
and so you you end up with this longing of
if only I could be in two places at once.
And Franklin also survived an abusive marriage. She married her manager,
Ted White in nineteen sixty one when she was just nineteen,

(08:50):
but after seven years of marriage, they separated in nineteen
sixty eight. The end of their marriage was dogged by
reports of domestic abuse, and White quote roughed her up
more than once. According to a nineteen sixty eight Time story,
it was not the first incident. I don't think she's happy.
Somebody else is making her sing the blues, Franklin's friend
and fellow gospel singer Melia Jackson told Time Quote Ugly

(09:13):
physical fights were not unusual between White and Franklin. Rits wrote,
as reported by The New York Times, and this is
I think why I identify so much with her her music,
because I don't feel like they glamorize being in love
with someone who is awful for you. But I think
that they speak to like what that feels like in

(09:33):
a way that I think is really authentic and also
authentic for the time, you know, Like, I think that
the way that she put that bluesy pain over what
it felt like to be in love with someone who
was awful for you and that you knew was no good,
I think nobody did that like her. And when I
hear her music, it's like I asked, Like I hear

(09:55):
it with my bones. It's like I understand even It's
like I understand what she's sang and what she's not saying.
And I think that a lot of people say that
Her nineteen sixty seven classic I Never Loved a Man
the Way I Love You is about those times with
her husband. The song says, I don't know why I
let you do these things you do to me. My
friends keep telling me that you ain't no good, But

(10:15):
oh they don't know that I'd leave you if I could.
I never loved a man the way that I love you.
She sings, um, and here's a bit of a song
You'll lie, and oh why let you do these things?

(10:40):
You can really hear how she uses her her gift,
her her voice, her soul, her song, her passion to
say so much. And I think that that's why I
love her work, is that she is so authentically herself,
and that you can really hear that she's putting all

(11:00):
of her pain, all of her longing, all of her trauma,
all of her regret into her song, even if the
lyrics are kind of you know, straightforward, when you hear it,
when you when when you hear that song, you understand
all that she's up against, all that she's dealing with,
and and just like you, you you hear it like you.
I don't know how else to put it, like you really,
you know, sometimes you hear music and sometimes you feel music,

(11:23):
and I feel like I feel her songs. Yeah, I
completely agree. And that's really why I wanted to open
up today's show with talking about some of the more,
you know, difficult aspects of her life is because I
think that's why we have so much of her great art,
because she puts all of her pain into song, which

(11:44):
leads us to respect, which we'll talk about after this
quick break and we'rebecca, Thank you sponsor. So again, there

(12:04):
are so many songs read this that I love. What's
your favorite to read the Franklin song? Is it respect?
It might be um it makes me like like I'm
just making this motion with my body that no one
can see. It makes me feel powerful. It makes me
want to like get up and do something, which I

(12:26):
love it. It moves me to movement. Oh good, dude, good,
I guess I mean that's like, that's yes, it moves
you to movement. And again, respect is a no anthem
right like that, like that when you think about like
there's a scene in Bridget Jones which he tells off

(12:47):
her boss and they play that though just those notes
where it's like you feel it in your spine. It
is a It is a song that moves you to movement.
And I think that the reason why that song is
because she took all of this crap that she dealt
with in her life and she put it on that record.
She made she she made you feel it that I
have put up with a wall of and I'm putting

(13:10):
up with it no more. And I am not asking
for demanding respect. Yeah. And I actually didn't know that
it was a cover of a nineteen sixty seven Otis
Redding song. Yeah, I mean again, because it's she made
it her own. She made it so iconic. A lot
of people don't know what's actually a cover. Rita Franklin

(13:30):
told The Washington post in. I liked his version, of course,
I felt I could bring something new to it. Understatement
of the century, I think She's she definitely succeeded in that.
I haven't heard the other one. I mean, it's it's
it's different. It's good. I otis Otis Redding is a

(13:51):
is a an icon himself. It's good. But it's one
of those rare songs where the cover is just the
version of the song. You know, they're there are songs
that when you think of, you know, you know, maybe
you know they're covers. I'm trying to think of some examples. Heard. Okay,
that's a good example. Right. I was gonna say, people

(14:11):
are probably gonna write it and be like, how dare
you say that? You know this cover is better than
that version? But isn't the Johnny Cash When is the
last time you put on nine inch Nail's version of her? Right? Like?
The Johnny Cash version is the version that we remember? Yeah,
and even I would say, like, I appreciate both versions,
and I feel like they're two completely different songs even

(14:33):
though they're the same song. I feel like something different
is being communicated in both of them, which is really
interesting and it shows the power of music. But I
mean in this case, I just reading is is an
icon in his way, and and I probably am going
to go look up his version. I would suspect it
just communicates a different vibe, and we do. We're going

(14:55):
to talk about the lyrics as well, because that kind
of shifted to yeah, it's you're you're exactly right. It
does communicate a different vibe. According to Ritzen's Respect, the
song was already part of Aretha's live show by nineteen
sixty six. In the book, the producer Jerry Wext sort
of recounts a conversation with Ted White Franklin, who again
was then her probably abuse of husband and manager. Wexer

(15:19):
was looking for songs that Franklin could record and he
was like, I'm fine with respect as long as she
changes it up from the original, and her husband said,
you don't got to worry about that. Wet she changes
it up all right again understatement of the century. Um,
just to go back to covers. Also, I have to
say something a little bit controversial. Uh. I think people
are going to write in for this. I think that

(15:39):
Nirvana's cover of Man That Sold the World is the
definitive version of that song, not David Bowie's, even though
it's really good. And so this is one of those
rare cases where the cover is the or also Amy
Winehouse's version of Valerie right like it's one. Sometimes it
happens with the cover is the is the song and
the origin all it's just sort of, you know, an afterthought.

(16:04):
I will say as someone who is um, I don't
want to connoisseur is probably not the right word. But
I've listened to many, many, many versions of Smooth Criminal
and I, oh my god, I know where you're going
with this. No, it's not alien at farm. I know
what she's thinking. What I find interesting about covers of
that song is there almost all completely different, but my

(16:28):
favorite one is actually by two Cellos. Isn't exciting for
my personality? Probable? It is also kind of I don't
know if you're comfortable if you're telling you the story.
When we first met, I was like I think I was.
I was like, oh, Annie, are you okay? And you
were like that song? Yeah. I didn't know that was

(16:50):
a song until high school. So when people would ask
me any are you okay? I was like, why, what's wrong?
What do I look like? Something's wrong. And then I
didn't realize till people sang it. As I crossed to
the high school graduation. I was like, ah, yes, it
must have been a song all these years. I love it.
I love it. Yeah, So I want to if you

(17:10):
should people should write in what cover This is a
good question, right in what cover versions of songs do
you think surpass the original? Allah Otis writing and Franklin
respect So that is that is something I'd be very
very curious to know about. As any mentioned earlier, a
retas version it flips the script gender wise from otis

(17:33):
writings version. The original is a male speaker asking a
woman who he is presumably bankrolling, to respect him. Reading
sings do me wrong, honey, if you want to, you
can do me wrong honey while I'm gone, for example,
and Franklin saying I ain't gonna do you wrong while
you're gone. I ain't gonna do you wrong because I
don't want to. She also added on became the song's

(17:54):
signature line, R S P E C T. Find out
what it means to me? Yeah, Rid, sorry, that's that's
not meant to be in the Franklin impression. I also
just got over laryngitis. Sorry, don't I mean yeah, I'm
not a singer. I thought that was pretty good. I
could see you singing at karaoke. Oh I love karaoke.

(18:16):
I've definitely sang respect at karaoke. And like two years ago,
me and my friends got like low key asked to
leave a bar because he wouldn't stop singing Natural Woman.
We're very drunk. I love it. We were very drunk,
and it was it was like four pr on a
Sunday or not the vibe to be singing natural Woman

(18:38):
at the top of ours, and like the whole rest
of the bar cleared out. It was just you and
your friends basically. Peter Gerlini, the author of Sweet Soul Music,
Rhythm and Blues, and The Southern Dream of Freedom, points
out that Rita transformed the original meaning quote not so
much by changing the lyrics as by the feeling that

(18:59):
she imparted on the song, so that respect became a
proclamation of freedom, a proclamation of feminism, and a proclamation
of an independent spirit. Hell yeah, yeah, that's the feeling
I feel when I hear that, for sure. She also
added the line that is often misheard, like people when
you are singing this song, it's like that line that

(19:20):
people people are people say r E s p e
c t find out what it means to me r
E s PCT. And then there's that part where people
are sort of like mom because no one knows what
she's saying. Well, she's actually saying take care of TCB,
which is taking care of business. So like taking care
of taking care of business. So next time you're singing

(19:40):
that song of karaoke, you're welcome. But that's what it means.
You're going to really impress some people in the crowd.
For sure, you are. You are. But she added that
as well, um as well as adding that ending that
ending refrain Socca to me, Socca to me, Socca to me,
Socca to socke, to taco to me, Socca to me. Yeah,
And she told Fresh Air interview, my sister Caroline and

(20:04):
I got together, her sisters Caroline and Irma sang backup
on the original song by the way, on the original recording,
UM Piano by the window watching the cars go by,
and we came up with that infamous line, the socket
to me line. It was a cliche of the day.
Some of the girls were saying that the fellows like
sock it to me this way or sock it to
me that way. Um, And she added that the phrase

(20:27):
wasn't supposed to be sexual. It can simply mean something
like tell me or give it to me straight. Jerry
Wextor told her biographer that in her version of the song,
the call for respect went from a request to a demand,
and by using slang that her and her sisters and
her kind of on the streets and in women just
casually talking to their men, shed becast a song from

(20:47):
a specifically female perspective. It is a song written by
Otis Fredding, who was considered obviously one of the most
iconic soul men of all time. Right And Robica, a
professor of African, African American and Caribbean studies the University
of Colorado, Boulder and the author of the hip hop
movement from R and B to the Civil rights movement
to wrap to the hip hop generation. It's an now
whole told box, but a Reata snatches the song away

(21:11):
and reinfuses it with these second wave feminist sensibilities. In
that same Fresh Air interview we mentioned above, Areta said
in later times it was picked up as a battle
cry in the Civil Rights movement, but when I recorded it,
it was pretty much a male female kind of thing,
and more in a general sense, from person to person,
I'm going to give you respect, and I'd like you
to have that respect back, or I expect respect to

(21:32):
be given back. Despite these intentions and because of a
deep need, the song took on a larger residence culturally. Yeah,
And she wrote in her autobiography, so many people identified
with and related to respect. It was the need of
a nation, the need of the average man and woman
on the street, the businessman, the mother, the fireman, the teacher.

(21:53):
Everyone wanted respect. It was also one of the battle
cries of the Civil Rights movement. The song took on
monument to significance, and I think that's why respect has
such meeting, particularly for women. You know, Franklin had her
first kid at twelve, she was involved in abusive relationships
and just being a woman, especially a black woman, especially
an outspoken black woman in that industry at that time,

(22:16):
She's probably dealt with a wall of craft like I
can only imagine. And so singing in that song, singing
about you know, a demanding respect from men, but society,
I mean, professor Roberta points out this is a pre
me too movement, he said, but also a lot of
women knew this sister at Aretha was singing from a

(22:37):
pit of pain in a patriarchal society. He added, love
is political, and I think that's what that really gets
at why I'm so fascinated by her, because we had
the same that I think older feminists especially are very
fond of. You know, the personal is political. I think
that nobody bridges that gap quite like Aretha Franklin. Nobody

(22:57):
makes that point that listen. I I'm dealing with both
from my partner, both from my label, both from my industry,
both from society, both from lawmakers, both from the president.
It's all intertwined and it's not okay, and I demand
that it stopped right Like, she just really puts that
into conversation of why for feminists, for women, the personal

(23:20):
is political, and she, just like nobody makes it sound better. Yeah.
And this song was recorded during a time of political
and social shifts. Here's how Cleveland dot Com puts it.
Every seven, the Vietnam War raged anew in the aftermath
of a fleeting truce. Back home, battles are being fought
on other fronts, with the civil rights movement and women's

(23:42):
movement fully mobilized. Two days earlier, speaking at the Lincoln
Memorial in Washington, d C. On the anniversary of Abraham
Lincoln's birth, President Lyndon Johnson called for an end to racism,
which he condemned as man's ancient curse and man's present shame.
A few months later, Johnson was signed in an executive
order that expanded affirmative action legislation to cover sex discrimination.

(24:07):
Valentine's Day fell on a Tuesday that year in New
York City. The weather was unseasonably mild, and inside the
Broadway Recording studios of Atlantic Records, an African American woman
and her youthful prime pounded a piano and began to
sing what you want, Baby, I got it what you need?
You know I got it. You know I got all

(24:29):
I'm ask you can. I know you've got pipe dandie
if you want, I'm a steady above average. That's it.
All I'm asking is for a little respect when you
come home, hey baby. Her name was Aretha Franklin. Soon
she would be hailed as the Queen of Soul and

(24:50):
respect would stand as their crowning achievement. I die. I
love it so much, I die. And yeah, you can
really see how not only was the this song a
pivotal moment in her professional career, it was a pivotal
moment for the country. The country was changing the role
of women, the role of people of color, you know,
the country. We were at this massive precipice. And it's

(25:12):
almost as if she struck right at that time and
cut into what we were all feeling in our in
our romantic lives, but in our in our social and
political lives as well. Yeah, it was she came along
at the perfect moment, right when it needed the ample
to be struck exactly. And I think that people forget

(25:33):
that she was actually a huge part of the civil
rights movement. Yeah, she she grew up in the movement.
Rebaka said, um quote, her work has a particular meaning
for the Black freedom movement, for the civil rights movement,
for the Black power movement, and for the black women
involved in the women's liberation movement at that time. Civil
rights workers would see her at a fundraiser right next

(25:54):
to Martin Luther King Jr. Raising funds for the movement,
and then hear her records on the radio. I love it.
One of my favorite little known Aretha Franklin stories. And
if you if you follow me on Instagram, which if
you want tidbits about women in music, because that's literally
the only thing I care about, you should I'm at
bridget Brian d c follow me if you if that's
your thing. But I posted it there so you may

(26:15):
have already seen this, so if you're hearing it twice, sorry,
But one of my favorite stories about her that I
feel like gets sort of overlooked is that when Angela
Davis was arrested. So if you don't know who Angela
Davis was, she is a political activist and scholar who
was arrested and charged with murder in a connection with
a California courtroom shootout with police in which four people
were killed. She was later acquitted, but at the time

(26:37):
she was arrested and Aretha Franklin was not going to
let this stand. She told Jet magazine quote, black people
will be free. Jail is hell to be in. I'm
going to see her free if there's any justice in
our courts. Not because I believe in communism, but because
she is a black woman and she wants freedom for
black people, and she ended up but you know, pledging

(26:59):
to post her bail if she was not freed. And
her explanation for it was so great. She basically said,
this is my money. I made this money because black
people bought my records. Angela Davis wants black people to
be free or go. This is my responsibility as a
black woman who has money. And she goes on to
say probably one of my favorite Aretha Franklin my quotes

(27:20):
of all time. She just really saying something, I know,
you got to disturb the piece when you can't get
no peace. And I love that, Like, think about her
iconic voice. That's exactly what she did. When you think
of that song. That is a song that cuts through
the bs, and that is what she was all about.
I mean, you gotta respect, you gotta gotta gotta R

(27:43):
s p e c t it too. I had to
make too many of those jokes throughout this episode. I
know this is we had a counter on this episode
would be like seventeen R s p ec teeth lay
and then a separate counter for poor attempts at singing listen.
I never said I was a queen of soul. Oh no,

(28:06):
we never claimed it, but we took a stab at it.
You know, I'll take Princess of Soul or like Duchess
of Soul. I'll be like, what is it, oh gesture
of soul? Oh I love that. Okay, this is we're
on that something here we are. So this iconic song
actually took up quite an interesting uh legacy in terms

(28:30):
of copyright and legality and all of that stuff, which
we'll get more into after this quick break and we're back.
Thanks you sponsor. Now, something that I really didn't know
much about, which I found fascinating, is that, because it's

(28:50):
a cover, Franklin's Respect actually became kind of a rally
cry around copyright law. Under US copyright law, American radio
stations pay only the writers and publishers of a song,
not artists who performed them. That means that every time
Respect is played on the radio readings, the state and
Redding died in a plane crash has been paid. Franklin

(29:13):
never was. That is shocking. It is shocking, especially, I
mean especially listen, no disrespect to Otis Reddigg, But Averytha Franklin,
that is her song, like she like that is her song.
People don't think of Otis Redding doing Respect. That is
her song. Absolutely and also even even if not, even

(29:35):
if you're generous instead if not, it's a different She
transformed that song from what he was singing. Yes, yes,
it's all I mean, it's almost like they're different songs. Yeah,
I kind of feel that way. And again disclaim I
haven't heard it, but I'm very much getting that vibe. No,
I have heard it. Notice Clay reading their different songs.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna say that, Yes, don't

(29:57):
add me their different songs. So efforts to change the
law go back decades, with Respect often held up by
the music industry as exhibit A for why it was unfair.
But broadcasters, which are pretty powerful lobbying group, have successfully
argued that performers already benefit from the promotion they received
from radio play, which is bs because you know your legacy,

(30:21):
your a state can't eat promotion. You know that's that's
not I don't appropriate argument. No. The Universal Music Publishing Group,
which controls retting songwriting copyright, declined to say how much
this song has earned, but the licensing agency b m
I said that Respect had been played seven point four
million times on commercial radio stations in the United States

(30:43):
since it was released. So think about how much money
that is, you know, for for real, Yeah, and she
sees none of it. It's so unfair. Yeah. An economist
Barry master Ski, who specializes in valuing music catalogs, estimated
that over the last five years alone, Respect has earned
about five hundred thousand dollars, about of that from commercial

(31:08):
radio and the rest from television and streaming services. Yeah.
According to Mitch Glazer, the president of the Recording Industry
Association of America, he says, quote, some recordings more clearly
highlight the inequality of the laws, and Respect is one
of the best examples. And again, in recent years, Respect
has become a battle song and a fight over digital rights.

(31:29):
Laws passed in the nineteen nineties let performing artists collect
royalties from internet and satellite radio, but songs were exempt
if they were recorded before a change in federal copyright
law took effect in nineteen twoteen bill to change that
was named the Respect Act in honor of the song.
A lobbying campaign was titled It's a Matter of R. E.

(31:50):
S P E c T. With Franklin's approval, and a
current bill in Congress. The Music Modernization Act would force
digital radio services to pay royalties for songs recorded before
nineteen seventy two. I have to add, it's a good
thing that they know that that that campaign had Aretha's
you know, blessing, because this is one of my other

(32:11):
favorite things about Rtha Franklin. If Aretha Franklin didn't with you,
she really didn't with you. And so if you like,
nobody threw shade like Aretha Franklin. Okay, so again, this
is not a podcast about how great Aretha Franklin was
at throwing shade, although I would listen to that, and
we should make a follow up. But in n New
York Post, columnist Liz Smith wrote about Aretha Franklin's outfit,

(32:35):
she must know that she's too busy me to wear
such clothing, but she doesn't care what we think. And
that attitude is what separates mere stars from true diva's.
So you might be thinking, oh, that sounds like a compliment.
You know who didn't find that compliment, Aretha Franklin. Aretha
Franklin wrote a response to her like wrote this out
to her. How dare you be so presumptuous as to

(32:55):
presume you could know my attitudes with respect to anything
other than music. Obviously, I haven't a hope what it
takes to wear a boost tier, and I haven't had
any complaints. I'm sure if you could, you would. When
you get to be a noted and respected fashion editor,
please let us all know Everytha. Frank p S. You
are hardly in any position to determine what separate stars

(33:17):
from diva's since you are neither one nor an authority
on either. Wow, it's so good. So what's what I'm
saying is I'm glad this campaign got her permission because
if they had not and she was knocked down with it,
they would have heard about it, and they would have
heard about it, like in a very cutting way, knowing her.

(33:38):
Another another cool thing is that Otis Redding's family is
supportive of this bill even while they are benefiting from
money from the song, and they may profit from the song,
including his daughter Carla Redding Andrews, who has supported changing
the law covering pre nineteen two songs. And it does
kind of sound like this sort of thing. It's a
holdover from these terrible, terrible industry actasis of yester year.

(34:01):
And I'm sure these practices are like not you know,
dead and buried at all. Jeff Jamboul, who manages the
States for people like Franklin and Redding, said that unfair
financial treatment was built into the fabric of their early
careers and the music industry has not fully made amends.
He says, the record business has a long history of
treating artists like chattel slavery. We've grown out of those

(34:22):
dark ages a bit, but when it comes to actually
paying them fairly, that is the last needle to move.
And Yeah, I think that knowing all of this about
her legacy and this song, I mean, she is a
woman who dealt with so much, and I mean I
I think she's had national treasure. I think that there
are there a few people that I've considered to be

(34:44):
national treasures when it comes to music, and she's one
of them. Yeah, And from what little I know about
copyright lit, it does seem it seems like the whole
thing needs a rehall. It seems like a lot a
lot needs to change there. Definitely. Yeah, she was she
was the first woman to be inducted into the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame. Like, she's a national icon

(35:06):
and we need to be I'm just gonna say it.
I won't say it. We need to be respecting. I
won't spell it out to Warren. I'll show a little
straight We need know I'm gonna do it. We need
to rsp ecd her legacy. Boom, the counter just went
up another notch. It had to happen. It had to happen.

(35:27):
So this this has been our episode on Aretha Franklin,
and specifically on respect. She gave a lot of us
so much, She gave this country so much, so it
was it was sad and rewarding to to talk about her. Yeah,
I wish her family peace, and I mann I want

(35:49):
to get emotional. I just really really respect her and
I have nothing but reference for her, and I love
her so much, and I'm so so glad we got
to have her for a little while. I'm sure that
Aritha and Whitney are up in heaven right now causing
all kinds of drama, soide you know, I'm sure that
is a wonderful mental image. And with that that brings

(36:13):
us to the end of this episode. In the honor
of our of our Queen of Soul, we would like
to move into listener mail with a little taste of
what she gave us. Yes c our first letter comes

(36:37):
from Caitlin. Caitlin wrote, I had a weird aha moment
while listening to your Cool Girl episode. I am a
professor at a state university in an engineering department. In
my engineering college, female faculty make up less than twenty
of the faculty, and this summer I joined the ranks
of tenured faculty. I think there are nine women with
tenure out of one d and thirty ish faculty. Not surprisingly,

(37:03):
we women face some unusual challenges in the classroom. I
reached out for help countless times with discipline problems in
my classes, particularly from bros. As my friends and I
have nicknamed the typical difficult archetype. The suggestions from mostly
senior male colleagues to cope is quote, lay down the law,
assume more authority, it's your classroom, demand respect. It's on

(37:27):
the reasons I included this letter in the episode. It's
about respect. Um. She goes on each and every time
I've done this behavior and my class blows up in
my face. Here comes my aha moment. My students, particularly
the bros, expect me to be a cool girl. Am
I a young woman? Rocking a traditionally male dominated field. Yes,

(37:48):
am I comfortable talking about car engines and how to
turn into energy? Yes? Does that earn me some cred
with my students? Yes? But like a cool girl, my
students expect me to be on, flappable and accommodating. You
need extra time on your homework? Sure, no problem struggling
with an assignment. Let me give you the answer. It
will be our secret. You cheated on an exam, you

(38:11):
must have a good reason for it. Will work something out.
When I don't behave as expected, the pushback and rejection
is immediate and a parent, I generally want to say
screw you and move on with the students who want
to learn. But there are teaching evaluations. Teaching evaluations are
used as the only record of my teaching and promotions
and merit based raises, and students use these instruments to

(38:35):
air their grievances, legitimate or otherwise. It gives the bros
power over me than not cool girl. Likewise, in seeking
help with challenges presented on teaching evaluations in the pursuit
of tenure, I've been presented with alternative approaches to teaching
and strategies from make learning, learning objectives more clear. Not
one person has addressed how to assume a position of

(38:56):
respect in my classroom when my students expectation of my
persona is very unrealistic. Even when I straight up asked,
how do I get their respect? When I want to
enforce my classroom rules code of conduct and my students
want me to be accommodating, I sold, this is not
the problem. To just be more clear about your expectations.
I guess this is just one more way women in

(39:18):
academia are subversely told they do not belong. You probably
could do a whole podcast on teaching evaluations. The language
used in some of my evaluations would make your skin crawl.
And I know I am not alone. Oh my god. Okay,
so some of y'all know I was. I'm formerly used
to teach college before I got into the podcast game. Oh,
this letter gave me like stress flashbacks. Yes to everything

(39:42):
you said. I've seen it, have experienced it. It's both
I hate it. It makes me want to throw up
teaching evaluations like if you, if you, I think I
probably still have some of them. And yes, and She's
be an entire episode about it, because you know they're
just so awful and so sexist, and really it's one
of those thing where you cannot win. I used to
try to be cool professor in the very beginning, and

(40:04):
that never works. Students will walk all over you. And
then if you're not little miss cool, little mis accommodating,
they do they take it out on your evaluations. And
that's the only thing. At least at my college. We
have also had observation days, but that was really it.
You didn't have a lot of things to go on
if you wanted to build your record as a professor.
And I'll never forget. Like by by my third year teaching,

(40:27):
I was like, yeah, I'm a hardass and that's just
a situation and people can be upset with it. And
you know, I realized that you can always get more
lenient as the semester goes on, but you can't get
more strict. You got you at least for me, like
I had to start stripped. And but you really, you're
so right. You cannot win. It is such a catch

(40:48):
twenty two as a young woman in academia, you just
it's just trip wires. It's so hard. Yeah, I'm so
glad she sent this because um, I hadn't considered before
the teaching evaluation thing because my dad was a professor
um and just how to me after reading this, it

(41:10):
seems obvious that it would there would be a different
set of standards on women, female teachers as opposed to
male teachers. You would not believe it. This is this
warn't an EPO. I mean, I'm getting like hot under
the collar, just thinking. She sent us a picture of
one of her evaluations and like one of the comments
was that she was a babe. This is on her

(41:31):
teacher evaluation. Well that's like professor they have that They
used to have that. I don't know if they still
do because I'm no longer in the classroom, but they
used to have that chili functions. You could rate your
class and then throw it chili powder or chili pepper
in there if they were hot. Yeah, do you remember
that awful that annoyed me? Thank you for your letter.
Now I'm all your tape. It's almost like, yeah, I

(41:54):
have like rage flashbacks. Oh anyway, Ashley writes, growing up,
I never felt a real connection to my last name,
mostly because we were always closer to my mom's out
of the family. Like Bridget said, my accomplishments were on
behalf of my mom's side, not my dad's name. Then
my parents got divorced because of wrong doings of my dad.
After that, I couldn't wait to get married and take
my husband's name so I could disassociate my dad's name

(42:17):
and family. My family understands. And as a note, when
my parents got divorced, my mom kept my dad's name
because she used his name for her entire professional career.
So her name is her brand. It will be incredibly
confusing if she changed it fifteen years into the business.
I also want to say that my favorite celebrity name
changed was when Alexa Vega from a Spy Kids and
Carlos Penna from Big Time Rush got married. They mashed

(42:40):
their names together and both changed their last name to
pen Vega. That is amazing And I didn't know that.
That's really cool. I didn't know that either. H Yeah,
that that has been really interesting. UM. One of the
things that we didn't really get to talk about when
we did the name why why to change your name

(43:01):
or why do we change your name and why not? UM?
Is kind of how a lot for a lot of
us are our last names are our father's names and
what happens when that relationship is complicated, and also like
when women are getting divorced. But since they since generations
before ours got married earlier, they built their career on

(43:22):
their married name. So for the same reasons that kind
of in our generations we're keeping women are keeping their
last name because they don't. It's their brand and they
built their career on it. It's it just happened with
earlier generations with the married name. So that that's been very,

(43:43):
very interesting to hear from a lot. A lot of
listeners wrote in about that about how their mom kept
their married name even after divorce. Yeah. Again, it's just
there are so many stories and layers and situations. I
had no idea this issue was so complex. But I'm
so glad that we're writing in and I'm glad that
we raised it. Yeah, is that some braggy. I didn't

(44:04):
mean that to some braggy. Go us asking the hard
hitting questions. So thanks to both of them for writing in.
If you have anything that you would like to write
into us about, you can our emails mom Stuff at
how stuff parks dot com, and you can find us
on social media. We're on Instagram, Stuff mom ever told you,

(44:26):
and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and it's always
thanks to our producer, Dalen Fagan.