September 3, 2012 • 31 mins
How do matchmakers help people find love? Who hires matchmakers and how much do they cost? Are matchmakers successful? The answers might surprise you. Join Caroline and Cristen as they explore the strange world of matchmaking.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?
From house Stop Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. Quick question
(00:22):
for you. Have you ever played matchmaker with friends or acquaintances,
or family members, or just two people on the street, whomever,
people on a bus stop you look attractive, one or
two kids together. Now, I don't think I have no
I don't know. I feel like I would not be
good at it. Now I know that you were joking
(00:46):
about two people on the street or on the bus,
but actually, in fact, one day on my way home
from work, I was riding the train and an older
gentleman tried to play matchmaker with me in a and
a strange man and my stranger like a stranger. I
didn't know. He had a nice face, uh, but it
(01:06):
was one of the most awkward instances. This older guy
was like, you too belong together. I can see it.
Maybe he could see something you couldn't. I know. We
both looked up from our from our books, our respective publications,
and and then I ran out. Once we got to
my stop because I'm you know, what are you gonna
(01:26):
do at that point? I don't know. Blush probably is
what I would have done. Actually that did that same
thing happened to me. I was in England and I
was at a cafe and I was reading a book
and like drinking my coffee and this waitress comes over.
She's like, oh, are you American? Of course she obviously
had a British accent, but I'm not even gonna do it,
like hello, hello, hello, Now are you American? And I
(01:50):
was like, yeah, well, you know he over there, that
guy that he's American too, And we bought it was
the same thing. We both look up from our books
and we're like, we both have this look on our
face like oh god, please stop, and she's like, you
got you really? Do you know him? You know he's
a do you know him? He's also American. You guys
should really know each other, you should really sit together.
And we just look at each other and just go
(02:11):
back to her and now he's your boyfriend. No, Well,
clearly these random folks that we've run into in our
lives not good matchmakers. I've never played matchmaker with friends
that I can think of, really I kind of avoid it.
(02:31):
I feel like I would. I wouldn't be that great,
and then if it doesn't work out, it's egg on
your face. Let's egg on your face. But also you
might be putting a wrench into your friend group. Right.
But if I was to tell you that you could
be paid thousands of dollars to potentially match people up,
(02:52):
which you think it about it, I could be inspired. Okay,
Well that's this is a very long way of telling
our listeners that we're talking about matchmakers today. Uh. In
my mind, when I think of matchmaker, the first thing
I think of is the song from Fiddler on the
Roof that goes a little something like, I won't sing
(03:12):
it for you. I was so ready your eyes beamed
there for a moment. Nope, I'm not going to sing
it today because I'm recovering from a cold show. I
don't think And that's my excuse. Um. But we're talking
more in the podcast about professional matchmakers because it seems
(03:35):
like I don't know if we have many reality TV
fans out there, but there was a certain show on
a certain network by the certain name of Millionaire Matchmaker,
and I feel like I love it. Once that came
out every it was Matchmakers everywhere. Yeah, I love I
love the show. I the only reason I can't watch
this because there's too many commercials, But I do love it.
(03:56):
And she sets up some pretty nasty people. I don't
mean like that the couple nafty. I mean like she
sets people up with some nasty people, like some of
her millionaires are really big jerks. But again, as we'll
get to in the podcast, sometimes it's not. You know,
part of the matchmaking process is finding the diamond in
the rough. You know, maybe you know, a lot of
(04:18):
times with these these smarmier men who she might Patty Singer,
the millionaire Matchmaker might uh encounter really what they needed
some coaching, and she'll, you know, they'll usually go through
some kind of at least some minimal metamorphosis of realizing that,
you know, maybe clock of Seagulls haircut is over. Sir. Yeah.
(04:42):
So before we get too much into our into our
secret and now not so secret love of Millionaire Matchmaker,
guilty pleure, let's talk about the matchmaking industry, because yes,
I did not realize this, but in the United States,
matchmaking is a lucrative industry. Yeah, like a two hundred
(05:02):
and fifty million dollar industry. Uh. This is according to
the Matchmaking Institute, who knew there was such a thing. Um,
But according to them, there's matchmaking professionals in the US.
Well that was in two thousand and six, so gosh,
gi Gali, there's probably a whole lot more. They're probably more. Yeah,
but it's interesting that the industry within and without is
(05:25):
dominated by women, both the matchmakers themselves and the clients,
which used to not be the case on the clients side. Um. Actually,
the reason why we ended up doing this match making
episode was because of an article that was published a
couple of weeks ago on The Daily Beast talking about
(05:46):
this new trend in the matchmaking industry where they're catering
to wealthy, middle aged and older women because it used
to be the matchmaker professional matchmakers I should say, catered
specifically to wealthy dudes. Right. But you know, as demographics
have changed and more women are in higher power, higher
(06:10):
power jobs, whatever, it becomes harder to meet that magical someone, apparently,
particularly if you're in New York. Like that kept coming
up over and over again that people in New York
are spending a lot of money finding the right person,
and you know what side note like totally derailing. I
have talked to friends who have lived in New York
and you're like, it's really hard to find a date
even for you know, like average people. Not so imagine
(06:32):
what it's like if you're you know, Martha Stewart or somebody. Well,
don't they call it the loneliest city in the world.
It just surrounded by people I will now, but no
one to date. But speaking of New York, it is
the number one center for matchmaking of the matchmaking industry.
That's most lucrative market, followed by Los Angeles, Chicago, and
(06:55):
coming in at number four representing our our town in
which we live Atlanta hot Atlanta not so hot. Apparently
the players are not playing or maybe the players are
playing too much, the players just need some help playing um.
And then finally at number five, this is coming from
again the Matchmaking Institute, which was the best source for
(07:18):
industry data, because it is a very niche industry as
you can imagine. But number five at Minneapolis St. Paul,
Yeah right, because it's cold. I wonder if that has
anything to do with big cities people stick to their
own and don't really Maybe branch out from their groups
and get to know new people. Yeah, you're in uh,
you're in a large urban area that's dominated by you know,
(07:39):
professionals who are working constantly, especially when you climb up
into the into the higher ranks. The reason why professional
match makers tend to cater to wealthier clientele is because
they don't have time to go, you know, on to
two mixers or do speed dating, or try to go
on date after date hoping to find someone who's a
matching needs someone to kind do that for them and um.
(08:02):
Matchmakers today also attribute the popularity of online dating to
the lucrative industry that they're now in. Like a lot
of people have turned from online dating, they're saying to
professional matchmakers because of horror stories. Yeah, people are having
all this bad luck and online dating, and so they
(08:24):
don't want to leave things quite as up to chance
as you tend to do with online dating, because even
though you can go on these sites and like have
percentages that match you, they don't take ano account really
how you are with people. So maybe there's the hope
that with a matchmaker, someone who meets you in person
meets the other person, they can kind of get a
better feel for who you would be better with, right. Uh.
(08:47):
And speaking of which, why don't we walk through the
matchmaking process? And this is coming from articles in the
New York Times magazine and New York Times profiling in particular,
Manhattan's most famous matchmaker lady named Janice Spindle, who has
created a matchmaking empire. It sounds like a fairy godmother.
(09:08):
Janice Spindle. Uh yeah, Spindle will actually go out and
actively recruit clients. She will, and she she's one of
those matchmakers who cater specifically two men, and so she
will in airports, in restaurants, at parties, walk up to
attractive men not wearing wedding rings, who were probably in suits.
(09:33):
I mean, they've got the cash to spend on a matchmaker,
and she she'll just go up and say, hey, hey fella,
let me let me find you love. I'm not propositioning,
you know, really, I have a business deal. Yeah. She
has to clarify that because they'll they'll look confused at
first because she'll start talking about dating in romance and
then notice that she has a wedding band on and
she has to be like, no, no, no, I want
(09:55):
to help you find someone else, not me, Well, there
is that that high level matchmaking stuff, but sometimes they
do it. They attract clients through ads or online searches
or just word of mouth kind of whatever gets their
message out there. And there's usually some kind of initial consultation,
just like you want when you get a fancy haircut,
just to find out what the people are looking for. Um.
(10:16):
If if it goes forward, if things are positive, their
membership dues exchanged. Uh, maybe dates are called from some
bank of eligible young men and women. Yeah. And speaking
of the membership fee, here's the thing about professional matchmakers.
They cost a lot more than online dating will probably
(10:39):
cost you UM to get into the Millionaire Matchmaker Club.
And this is from the Wall Street Journal. I'm not
just quoting reality television. They interviewed Patty Singer about her
empire that she has built. UM of the base membership
fee to get into the Millionaire Matchmakers Club cost forty
dollars a year UM. But for a little more of
(11:03):
a representative price point for the industry wide. UM, a
third of matchmaker clients spend between three thousand and five
thousand per year on dating services. That's still a lot.
That's crazy and I would just like to point something
out that that seems a little insane to me. Yes,
you might spend forty dollars with Patty Sanger, but according
(11:24):
according to miss Singer, you might spend two hundred grand
on quote more personalized services and individualized attention. And so
I'm just I'm just wondering, what what does that mean
for the attention you're getting for forty grand. It's a
good question, like what sets you apart on the forty
grand level, on the two grand level? Like I would
(11:45):
want forty grand to be pretty personal. Maybe two grand
guarantees you a cameo on the show, and maybe that
pays all the insurance costs for the show. Um, the
average professional matchmaker in New York City will earn not
too bad of a living seventy eight grand per year,
although I guess in Manhattan terms, I don't New York folks.
(12:06):
I mean, that sounds like a lot of money down
here in Atlanta. But perhaps that it's I mean, it's
not obviously matchmakers, what I'm trying to say, make a
lot less than their clients. Still, yeah, Well, Kristen mentioned
that Daily Beast article a little bit ago, and Paula
Frolick who's the writer actually called Stanger cantankerous in it,
(12:26):
and she differentiates between Stanger, Miss Patti Stanger and these
this quote unquote new breed of high end matchmakers who
run background checks on clients and dates and only actually
except about twenty of potential clients there. It's it's very exclusive, yeah,
because you want to make sure that you're setting someone
up with a quality person who who matches them on
(12:50):
different levels, who might not be you know, someone who
could be married or maybe they don't have the best
of intentions for wanting to core a very wealthy person. Um,
So getting back into the process once they've plunked down
their money, Uh, what happens next? Because it's actually it's
(13:12):
a grooming process. A lot of times when you pay
for a membership, it's a year long process that you
go through unless you're insanely lucky and on your first
date it's magic and then wedding bills with chime. Yeah,
and then you can be on a Patty Sanger special
perhaps maker special, yes, But a lot of times, um,
(13:36):
the matchmaker doubles as a sort of dating coach. Um,
you might end up getting set up with an image
consultant if say, you do have a flock of seagulls here,
don't don't be the guy who fights it. Don't fight
the makeover. Get rid of the pleated pants. You know
some some men look nice and pleated pants. I don't know.
(13:57):
Sometimes the makeovers go overboard, I'm to say it, but
but yeah, because even sometimes they will recommend cosmetic surgery,
but other times, other times it's a little bit of
physical training, some dieting. You might even do an at
home makeover if you have kind of a scary bachelor
pad that is not very um conducive to coupling. Um.
(14:24):
And then they also want to get more information on
things like your family background, education, hobbies, interest, religious background,
personal values and morals if you want kids, that's important,
you know, uh, previous relationships, and also relationship deal breakers.
(14:44):
Matchmakers get pretty quick into digging into not so much
your future, but first let's figure out your past and
how you got here. So kind of in a way,
it's like the matchmaker is dating the client. Yeah, well,
it's kind of. When you hear about all the stuff
they have to do, it's no wonder they charge so
much money because they're basically like if they're if they're
taking you, if they're doing the Patty Sanger and they're
(15:05):
taking you into a room of potential dates, they're basically
your escort. You know, they're your party planner, not you know,
it's it's it's a lot, it's a lot to handle there.
They're kind of your personal consultant for quite a while.
And obviously different kinds of matchmakers will provide different kinds
of services, some of which will be a little more
of that one on one intensive. Others will be just
(15:26):
to literally set you up on one on one dates
with people, rather than escorting you to parties or two um,
almost like date auditions that you might see on reality
television shows. Yeah, but one uh one type of matchmaking
we haven't talked about yet. It is the traditional kind. Yeah,
let's talk about the traditional matchmaking because I mentioned that
(15:50):
one of the first things the matchmaker will find out
about with the client are cultural and religious backgrounds, and
sometimes they will refer that client to another matchmaking service
if they are specifically, say looking for an Orthodox Jewish wife,
or you know, some kind of they're looking for a
person to fit a specific um ethnic or religious or
(16:15):
cultural model. Yeah, it was really interesting. Reading about all
these different cultural uh, these matchmaking traditions, because I had
no idea. I kind of had an idea about Hindu
traditions just because my friend Diepa just got married. She
did not she had a traditional Indian ceremony, but she
wasn't it wasn't an arranged marriage as you might think
of a traditional Hindu ceremony. So I kind of knew
(16:38):
about that. And it was a beautiful wedding and all
that stuff, and I were sorry it was great. Um,
but yeah, So, speaking of Hindu tradition, marriage is a
cornerstone of Hindu faith, and the family typically functions as
the matchmaker, and in India in particular, this whole matchmaking
thing has existed since the fourth century. Yeah, we've done
(16:59):
an episode up podcast a while ago on arranged marriages.
And while this idea of paying someone paying a professional
matchmaker might seem kind of novel by our westernized standards,
and even the idea of arranged marriage might seem kind
of strange, in fact, around the world, sixty of marriages
(17:20):
are arranged. And while you might not have someone like
a Patty Singer coming in obviously and saying what's what, uh,
you'll you'll still have either people designated people in your
community or family members who serve as the matchmakers. And
a lot of times it does focus around religious elements.
(17:42):
You mentioned Hinduism and then it also comes up, of
course with Orthodox Judaism. Right. Yeah. Fathers are traditionally selecting
the grooms, and they might request assistance from a Oh,
I hope I get this right, uh shot kun shakn
oh hey, hey, I looked at my Yiddish pronunciations. Now,
(18:03):
I literally just snapped at her because I am so impressed. Um.
I looked at pronunciations and I was like, oh gosh,
going blind into this. Um. So Yeah, and matchmakers do
typically team up with rabbis to help pair up couples.
And while the Torah dictates that these fency individuals be
paid Kristen shotguns, thank you, uh, some of the Jewish
(18:26):
matchmakers refuse payments, saying that really it's their divine calling
and that they are meant to do this. Yeah. And
one little language lesson um, especially because we did mention
Fiddler on the Roof and the matchmaker's character in Fiddler
on the Roof For anyone who's not familiar with this,
her name is yenta, And a lot of times people
(18:49):
will use the word yenta interchangeably with matchmaker, but in
fact that is incorrect. You a short yenta merely refers
to an older woman who likes to gossip, whereas if
you're talking about a matchmaker, the correct word is shot
(19:10):
hunt for a man and shot hunted for a woman.
And any Kiddish speaking listeners out there, I hope that
I'm doing that. Yeah, just feel free to record yourself
saying it and sending it to us. Yeah. Um. Well.
There's also the Muslim tradition where aunties and other family
members find potential mates in their social networks. Um chaperone
(19:33):
meetings are typical, but key both parties are allowed to
give the thumbs down in accordance with the Koran. And
this is because a story in the Koran showed that
Mohammed actually did spare a young woman from compulsory marriage.
So just because maybe your auntie set you up with
the boy down the street, doesn't mean you have to
give it a thumbs up, right, But and it's I
(19:54):
don't know. It's it's interesting to see how with all
of these major religions, obviously marriage place such a central
role in each of them, and this smatchmaking tradition in
their own different ways has gone back and then like
stretches back in all of the their respective religious texts
as well. UM, and so why we find it, I
(20:18):
don't know, strange at all that people might look to
an outside party to for help with finding their partner. Well,
it feels it feels to me, I mean, as someone
who that's definitely alien to my culture in the way
that I was raised, like that just seems scary, you know, like,
oh my god, you're gonna bring in who for me
to marry, Like who's to say I'm even kind of
like this person. But statistically, arranged marriages last longer, that's true.
(20:45):
And then for love marriages, right the it's between five
and seven percent of arranged marriages will end in divorce.
But you also have to take into account uh, cultural
traditions and legalities that might strongly just courage or prevent
you from dissolving a marriage. But they're anecdotally though. If
you read about UM arranged couples today, and we talked
(21:08):
about this again in the podcast that we did a
while ago on arranged marriages, they you know, there isn't
an expectation of being madly in love when you're at
the altar, but that a love will develop. You know,
it's more of like a a kindred intimacy rather than
this passionate love that we that we think about and
that whole notion of love marriage. As we've talked about
(21:31):
before in the podcast UM referencing Marriage a History by
Stephanie Coonts, which is a great book if you ever
want to check it out. UM. She talks about how
the concept of marrying for love is so new comparatively
in our history. It only came about in the West,
starting in the seventeen hundreds. Well, if you think about
(21:52):
it too, with arranged marriages and and matchmakers and everything,
they're they're not just willy nilly necessary well ideally, they're
not willingly just picking somebody for you. They are looking
at your background, your family, your interests, you know, your
religious beliefs and all that and finding someone who lines
up with that. And uh read A Seth who's the
author of the book First Comes Marriage, interviewed more than
(22:15):
three hundred women in arranged marriages and found that families
play a huge role in matchmaking and the marriage. And
he said that it's not just about the two of you,
and I think that over the long term, that takes
a lot of pressure off the relationship. Yeah, and um
scientific research would also back up this common thread among
(22:36):
most matchmakers, whether it's a totally secular matchmaker who is
making lots of money in Manhattan or elsewhere, um, or
you know these matchmakers in um different societies around the world.
It's it always goes a good match always goes back
to that common background. Where did you grow up, what
(22:57):
is your religion, what was your family like, what's your
education level? Those basic kind of things that seem incredibly unromantic.
But if we're thinking about whether or not matchmakers are
successful or if matchmaking really works, um, if we look
into our evolutionary past, I mean human animals get together
(23:17):
based on a thing called assortative mating, which essentially means
like pairs up with like yeah, and this is um,
this isn't the spark. Yeah, this is the foundation basically,
the the similarities you have, the the way that you're
going to go forward with the same values. And when
(23:37):
all you are is caught up in the spark maybe
or the sexual attraction of a relationship, you might miss
the fact that the relationship you're in doesn't have a
true foundation. Yeah. There is a study published in two
thousand eight in the Journal of Evolutionary Psychology that talked
to participants about their ideal partner and whether or not
(23:58):
they were looking for qualities that were similar to them
or complementary, and by and large, participants said that they
wanted someone who was a similar personality and they had
you know, you've got People often have their lists of
what mr is right looks like, and so they told
(24:18):
the facilitators these lists of ideal traits. But when it
came down to the actual type of person that they
were looking for, it was more of a complimentary partner
than someone who was alike them. And so the researchers
are thinking with this, maybe we aren't so good at
knowing what we really need. I don't know, maybe we aren't.
(24:41):
My mother would say, I'm not going to knowing what
I need. But but then again, though your mother, while
she might be able to on paper, okay, point out
all of those complimentary traits, perhaps that would work best
for you. A two thousand twelve analysis of online matchmaking
those publish in the journal Psychological Science would say you
(25:02):
know what, Your mom might be able to pick someone
good on paper, but she's not gonna be able to
find the spark, which, in academic parlance and the words
of this two thousand and twelve study, it's referred to
as relationship aptitude. That's how you are with other people,
and not even necessarily how you are with like the
(25:24):
two of us together, but how you just are with people.
Like the way that Kristen Conger relates to people means
that she she just made a face that while I'm laughing,
I'm I'm not having a problem. Um, I means that
she would be good with you know, person X over person.
Why am I am? I kind of hitting it there? Yeah,
I mean I think that's like, uh, you know, a
(25:46):
sort of mating. When we think about that, uh, look
for someone if you want a good foundation, look for
someone who is kind of from the same place that
you are in or have been. That sounds really dreary
and so exciting, but you have to put on top
of that relationship aptitude that would push a friendship into
(26:07):
a more romantic relationship. Yeah. And and it's to find,
you know, just to give you a better idea. It's
the constellation of traits, preferences, and personal history that makes
a person more likely to have good relationships in general.
And supposedly these professional matchmakers are not only good at
peering up people on paper, but they supposedly have some
(26:29):
kind of sixth sense for keying in on people's relationship
aptitude and going that way perhaps after some coaching and grooming. Yeah,
no hot tub on the first date. That's right. Patty
Singer would say no sex before monogamy. But Patty Singer
also has lots of very reductive romantic advice. That is, yeah,
(26:53):
that says mentally like boobs and things. Yeah, well we
won't go there. Yeah this time in this episode, du dunt.
So there you have it. Match making, it has happened.
It's one of the one I forget which article it was,
but they described matchmaking as women's second oldest profession. But
(27:15):
don't so anyone who has played matchmaker. If you are
a matchmaker who has been set up successfully, we want
to hear your matchmaking stories. I mean, do you think
that people should, you know, keep their nose out of
other people's romantic business, or our friends better at setting
us up, or matchmakers perhaps better at setting us up
(27:37):
than we might be. And let's hear those stories about
the really bad dates, the blind date. You want that,
you want, the bad I want the horror stories. Well,
lots of stories come, I hope mom. Stuff at Discovery
dot com is where you can send those good, bad, ugly,
romantic and terrifying tales of dating and matchmaking. And in
(27:59):
the mean time, we have a couple of emails here
from our episode on gender and heroism. Okay, well, I
found an email here from Mary and she works with
the E M. S. And she says the podcast got
me thinking about our triage protocols. When resources are insufficient,
(28:22):
we have to move on from some patients whose survivability
is low and help where we can make the most difference. However,
when faced with a child in peril, it's not uncommon
for paramedics to work on a child with little chance
of survival, sometimes a situation which would result in an
adult patient being classified as dead on arrival. When a
child is in the same situation, E M. S. Cruz
(28:43):
will transport. Once at the hospital, doctors, surgeons, janitors, nurses
and file clerks will drop everything to see if there
is anything they can do to help a child whose
death is inevitable, sometimes resulting in the diminished quality of
care to adult patients. Even with training and protocol, these
situations are difficult to avoid, especially in smaller hospitals. Just
(29:04):
one of the many challenges of practicing emergency medicine. That's
an interesting inside look onto r situations. Thank you, Mary Okay.
This is an email from ISKRIN also on our heroism
podcast uh It Starts. I'd like to congratulate you on
covering more deep and complex issues such as heroism. I'd
(29:26):
like to offer a point of view which you, along
with the rest of society, didn't touch on. Let me
paint you a picture. Imagine a curvy road and two
cars driving on it. The first car, occupied by one man,
misses a turn and crashes. The second car, occupied by
a couple, sees the accident and pulls over. The husband
from the second car manages to pull out the driver
of the first car, and he calls for help while
(29:47):
the ambulance arrives. The wife holds the injured man's hand
and comforts him. Later on, the medics arrive and save
the life of the driver. That's a pretty standard scenario
and more than likely the next day, there will be
an article in the local newspaper exalting the couple on
the medic on duty. At this point, most people consider
the case closed. However, it is not a day or
so after the accident, and engineers dispatched to the crash
(30:08):
site with the task of assessing the situation and coming
up with a plan to prevent future accidents. Over the
course of a few weeks or months, safety measures like finces, signs,
et cetera are built to prevent cars from going off
the road. One can argue that the engineer's work has
saved an infinitely greater number of lives than the married
couple and the medics, and yet the local newspaper doesn't
publish a follow up article on the preventative measures taken.
(30:31):
So here they are, the engineers, technician and scientists, the
unsung heroes of our society. So thank you for that,
and thanks to everyone who's written in Mom's Stuff at
discovery dot com is where you can send your letters.
You can also find us on Facebook, follow us on
Twitter at Mom's Stuff podcast, and guess what, We've got
something new for you to do as well, Ladies and gentlemen,
(30:54):
we are on Tumbler, so if you would like to
check out our blog over there, it still a lot
of fun stuff, so join us. Stuff mom never told you.
Dot Tumbler dot com is the U r L. And
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always head over to our home site, it's how stuff
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(31:23):
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Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?
From house Stop Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. Quick question
(00:22):
for you. Have you ever played matchmaker with friends or acquaintances,
or family members, or just two people on the street, whomever,
people on a bus stop you look attractive, one or
two kids together. Now, I don't think I have no
I don't know. I feel like I would not be
good at it. Now I know that you were joking
(00:46):
about two people on the street or on the bus,
but actually, in fact, one day on my way home
from work, I was riding the train and an older
gentleman tried to play matchmaker with me in a and
a strange man and my stranger like a stranger. I
didn't know. He had a nice face, uh, but it
(01:06):
was one of the most awkward instances. This older guy
was like, you too belong together. I can see it.
Maybe he could see something you couldn't. I know. We
both looked up from our from our books, our respective publications,
and and then I ran out. Once we got to
my stop because I'm you know, what are you gonna
(01:26):
do at that point? I don't know. Blush probably is
what I would have done. Actually that did that same
thing happened to me. I was in England and I
was at a cafe and I was reading a book
and like drinking my coffee and this waitress comes over.
She's like, oh, are you American? Of course she obviously
had a British accent, but I'm not even gonna do it,
like hello, hello, hello, Now are you American? And I
(01:50):
was like, yeah, well, you know he over there, that
guy that he's American too, And we bought it was
the same thing. We both look up from our books
and we're like, we both have this look on our
face like oh god, please stop, and she's like, you
got you really? Do you know him? You know he's
a do you know him? He's also American. You guys
should really know each other, you should really sit together.
And we just look at each other and just go
(02:11):
back to her and now he's your boyfriend. No, Well,
clearly these random folks that we've run into in our
lives not good matchmakers. I've never played matchmaker with friends
that I can think of, really I kind of avoid it.
(02:31):
I feel like I would. I wouldn't be that great,
and then if it doesn't work out, it's egg on
your face. Let's egg on your face. But also you
might be putting a wrench into your friend group. Right.
But if I was to tell you that you could
be paid thousands of dollars to potentially match people up,
(02:52):
which you think it about it, I could be inspired. Okay,
Well that's this is a very long way of telling
our listeners that we're talking about matchmakers today. Uh. In
my mind, when I think of matchmaker, the first thing
I think of is the song from Fiddler on the
Roof that goes a little something like, I won't sing
(03:12):
it for you. I was so ready your eyes beamed
there for a moment. Nope, I'm not going to sing
it today because I'm recovering from a cold show. I
don't think And that's my excuse. Um. But we're talking
more in the podcast about professional matchmakers because it seems
(03:35):
like I don't know if we have many reality TV
fans out there, but there was a certain show on
a certain network by the certain name of Millionaire Matchmaker,
and I feel like I love it. Once that came
out every it was Matchmakers everywhere. Yeah, I love I
love the show. I the only reason I can't watch
this because there's too many commercials, But I do love it.
(03:56):
And she sets up some pretty nasty people. I don't
mean like that the couple nafty. I mean like she
sets people up with some nasty people, like some of
her millionaires are really big jerks. But again, as we'll
get to in the podcast, sometimes it's not. You know,
part of the matchmaking process is finding the diamond in
the rough. You know, maybe you know, a lot of
(04:18):
times with these these smarmier men who she might Patty Singer,
the millionaire Matchmaker might uh encounter really what they needed
some coaching, and she'll, you know, they'll usually go through
some kind of at least some minimal metamorphosis of realizing that,
you know, maybe clock of Seagulls haircut is over. Sir. Yeah.
(04:42):
So before we get too much into our into our
secret and now not so secret love of Millionaire Matchmaker,
guilty pleure, let's talk about the matchmaking industry, because yes,
I did not realize this, but in the United States,
matchmaking is a lucrative industry. Yeah, like a two hundred
(05:02):
and fifty million dollar industry. Uh. This is according to
the Matchmaking Institute, who knew there was such a thing. Um,
But according to them, there's matchmaking professionals in the US.
Well that was in two thousand and six, so gosh,
gi Gali, there's probably a whole lot more. They're probably more. Yeah,
but it's interesting that the industry within and without is
(05:25):
dominated by women, both the matchmakers themselves and the clients,
which used to not be the case on the clients side. Um. Actually,
the reason why we ended up doing this match making
episode was because of an article that was published a
couple of weeks ago on The Daily Beast talking about
(05:46):
this new trend in the matchmaking industry where they're catering
to wealthy, middle aged and older women because it used
to be the matchmaker professional matchmakers I should say, catered
specifically to wealthy dudes. Right. But you know, as demographics
have changed and more women are in higher power, higher
(06:10):
power jobs, whatever, it becomes harder to meet that magical someone, apparently,
particularly if you're in New York. Like that kept coming
up over and over again that people in New York
are spending a lot of money finding the right person,
and you know what side note like totally derailing. I
have talked to friends who have lived in New York
and you're like, it's really hard to find a date
even for you know, like average people. Not so imagine
(06:32):
what it's like if you're you know, Martha Stewart or somebody. Well,
don't they call it the loneliest city in the world.
It just surrounded by people I will now, but no
one to date. But speaking of New York, it is
the number one center for matchmaking of the matchmaking industry.
That's most lucrative market, followed by Los Angeles, Chicago, and
(06:55):
coming in at number four representing our our town in
which we live Atlanta hot Atlanta not so hot. Apparently
the players are not playing or maybe the players are
playing too much, the players just need some help playing um.
And then finally at number five, this is coming from
again the Matchmaking Institute, which was the best source for
(07:18):
industry data, because it is a very niche industry as
you can imagine. But number five at Minneapolis St. Paul,
Yeah right, because it's cold. I wonder if that has
anything to do with big cities people stick to their
own and don't really Maybe branch out from their groups
and get to know new people. Yeah, you're in uh,
you're in a large urban area that's dominated by you know,
(07:39):
professionals who are working constantly, especially when you climb up
into the into the higher ranks. The reason why professional
match makers tend to cater to wealthier clientele is because
they don't have time to go, you know, on to
two mixers or do speed dating, or try to go
on date after date hoping to find someone who's a
matching needs someone to kind do that for them and um.
(08:02):
Matchmakers today also attribute the popularity of online dating to
the lucrative industry that they're now in. Like a lot
of people have turned from online dating, they're saying to
professional matchmakers because of horror stories. Yeah, people are having
all this bad luck and online dating, and so they
(08:24):
don't want to leave things quite as up to chance
as you tend to do with online dating, because even
though you can go on these sites and like have
percentages that match you, they don't take ano account really
how you are with people. So maybe there's the hope
that with a matchmaker, someone who meets you in person
meets the other person, they can kind of get a
better feel for who you would be better with, right. Uh.
(08:47):
And speaking of which, why don't we walk through the
matchmaking process? And this is coming from articles in the
New York Times magazine and New York Times profiling in particular,
Manhattan's most famous matchmaker lady named Janice Spindle, who has
created a matchmaking empire. It sounds like a fairy godmother.
(09:08):
Janice Spindle. Uh yeah, Spindle will actually go out and
actively recruit clients. She will, and she she's one of
those matchmakers who cater specifically two men, and so she
will in airports, in restaurants, at parties, walk up to
attractive men not wearing wedding rings, who were probably in suits.
(09:33):
I mean, they've got the cash to spend on a matchmaker,
and she she'll just go up and say, hey, hey fella,
let me let me find you love. I'm not propositioning,
you know, really, I have a business deal. Yeah. She
has to clarify that because they'll they'll look confused at
first because she'll start talking about dating in romance and
then notice that she has a wedding band on and
she has to be like, no, no, no, I want
(09:55):
to help you find someone else, not me, Well, there
is that that high level matchmaking stuff, but sometimes they
do it. They attract clients through ads or online searches
or just word of mouth kind of whatever gets their
message out there. And there's usually some kind of initial consultation,
just like you want when you get a fancy haircut,
just to find out what the people are looking for. Um.
(10:16):
If if it goes forward, if things are positive, their
membership dues exchanged. Uh, maybe dates are called from some
bank of eligible young men and women. Yeah. And speaking
of the membership fee, here's the thing about professional matchmakers.
They cost a lot more than online dating will probably
(10:39):
cost you UM to get into the Millionaire Matchmaker Club.
And this is from the Wall Street Journal. I'm not
just quoting reality television. They interviewed Patty Singer about her
empire that she has built. UM of the base membership
fee to get into the Millionaire Matchmakers Club cost forty
dollars a year UM. But for a little more of
(11:03):
a representative price point for the industry wide. UM, a
third of matchmaker clients spend between three thousand and five
thousand per year on dating services. That's still a lot.
That's crazy and I would just like to point something
out that that seems a little insane to me. Yes,
you might spend forty dollars with Patty Sanger, but according
(11:24):
according to miss Singer, you might spend two hundred grand
on quote more personalized services and individualized attention. And so
I'm just I'm just wondering, what what does that mean
for the attention you're getting for forty grand. It's a
good question, like what sets you apart on the forty
grand level, on the two grand level? Like I would
(11:45):
want forty grand to be pretty personal. Maybe two grand
guarantees you a cameo on the show, and maybe that
pays all the insurance costs for the show. Um, the
average professional matchmaker in New York City will earn not
too bad of a living seventy eight grand per year,
although I guess in Manhattan terms, I don't New York folks.
(12:06):
I mean, that sounds like a lot of money down
here in Atlanta. But perhaps that it's I mean, it's
not obviously matchmakers, what I'm trying to say, make a
lot less than their clients. Still, yeah, Well, Kristen mentioned
that Daily Beast article a little bit ago, and Paula
Frolick who's the writer actually called Stanger cantankerous in it,
(12:26):
and she differentiates between Stanger, Miss Patti Stanger and these
this quote unquote new breed of high end matchmakers who
run background checks on clients and dates and only actually
except about twenty of potential clients there. It's it's very exclusive, yeah,
because you want to make sure that you're setting someone
up with a quality person who who matches them on
(12:50):
different levels, who might not be you know, someone who
could be married or maybe they don't have the best
of intentions for wanting to core a very wealthy person. Um,
So getting back into the process once they've plunked down
their money, Uh, what happens next? Because it's actually it's
(13:12):
a grooming process. A lot of times when you pay
for a membership, it's a year long process that you
go through unless you're insanely lucky and on your first
date it's magic and then wedding bills with chime. Yeah,
and then you can be on a Patty Sanger special
perhaps maker special, yes, But a lot of times, um,
(13:36):
the matchmaker doubles as a sort of dating coach. Um,
you might end up getting set up with an image
consultant if say, you do have a flock of seagulls here,
don't don't be the guy who fights it. Don't fight
the makeover. Get rid of the pleated pants. You know
some some men look nice and pleated pants. I don't know.
(13:57):
Sometimes the makeovers go overboard, I'm to say it, but
but yeah, because even sometimes they will recommend cosmetic surgery,
but other times, other times it's a little bit of
physical training, some dieting. You might even do an at
home makeover if you have kind of a scary bachelor
pad that is not very um conducive to coupling. Um.
(14:24):
And then they also want to get more information on
things like your family background, education, hobbies, interest, religious background,
personal values and morals if you want kids, that's important,
you know, uh, previous relationships, and also relationship deal breakers.
(14:44):
Matchmakers get pretty quick into digging into not so much
your future, but first let's figure out your past and
how you got here. So kind of in a way,
it's like the matchmaker is dating the client. Yeah, well,
it's kind of. When you hear about all the stuff
they have to do, it's no wonder they charge so
much money because they're basically like if they're if they're
taking you, if they're doing the Patty Sanger and they're
(15:05):
taking you into a room of potential dates, they're basically
your escort. You know, they're your party planner, not you know,
it's it's it's a lot, it's a lot to handle there.
They're kind of your personal consultant for quite a while.
And obviously different kinds of matchmakers will provide different kinds
of services, some of which will be a little more
of that one on one intensive. Others will be just
(15:26):
to literally set you up on one on one dates
with people, rather than escorting you to parties or two um,
almost like date auditions that you might see on reality
television shows. Yeah, but one uh one type of matchmaking
we haven't talked about yet. It is the traditional kind. Yeah,
let's talk about the traditional matchmaking because I mentioned that
(15:50):
one of the first things the matchmaker will find out
about with the client are cultural and religious backgrounds, and
sometimes they will refer that client to another matchmaking service
if they are specifically, say looking for an Orthodox Jewish wife,
or you know, some kind of they're looking for a
person to fit a specific um ethnic or religious or
(16:15):
cultural model. Yeah, it was really interesting. Reading about all
these different cultural uh, these matchmaking traditions, because I had
no idea. I kind of had an idea about Hindu
traditions just because my friend Diepa just got married. She
did not she had a traditional Indian ceremony, but she
wasn't it wasn't an arranged marriage as you might think
of a traditional Hindu ceremony. So I kind of knew
(16:38):
about that. And it was a beautiful wedding and all
that stuff, and I were sorry it was great. Um,
but yeah, So, speaking of Hindu tradition, marriage is a
cornerstone of Hindu faith, and the family typically functions as
the matchmaker, and in India in particular, this whole matchmaking
thing has existed since the fourth century. Yeah, we've done
(16:59):
an episode up podcast a while ago on arranged marriages.
And while this idea of paying someone paying a professional
matchmaker might seem kind of novel by our westernized standards,
and even the idea of arranged marriage might seem kind
of strange, in fact, around the world, sixty of marriages
(17:20):
are arranged. And while you might not have someone like
a Patty Singer coming in obviously and saying what's what, uh,
you'll you'll still have either people designated people in your
community or family members who serve as the matchmakers. And
a lot of times it does focus around religious elements.
(17:42):
You mentioned Hinduism and then it also comes up, of
course with Orthodox Judaism. Right. Yeah. Fathers are traditionally selecting
the grooms, and they might request assistance from a Oh,
I hope I get this right, uh shot kun shakn
oh hey, hey, I looked at my Yiddish pronunciations. Now,
(18:03):
I literally just snapped at her because I am so impressed. Um.
I looked at pronunciations and I was like, oh gosh,
going blind into this. Um. So Yeah, and matchmakers do
typically team up with rabbis to help pair up couples.
And while the Torah dictates that these fency individuals be
paid Kristen shotguns, thank you, uh, some of the Jewish
(18:26):
matchmakers refuse payments, saying that really it's their divine calling
and that they are meant to do this. Yeah. And
one little language lesson um, especially because we did mention
Fiddler on the Roof and the matchmaker's character in Fiddler
on the Roof For anyone who's not familiar with this,
her name is yenta, And a lot of times people
(18:49):
will use the word yenta interchangeably with matchmaker, but in
fact that is incorrect. You a short yenta merely refers
to an older woman who likes to gossip, whereas if
you're talking about a matchmaker, the correct word is shot
(19:10):
hunt for a man and shot hunted for a woman.
And any Kiddish speaking listeners out there, I hope that
I'm doing that. Yeah, just feel free to record yourself
saying it and sending it to us. Yeah. Um. Well.
There's also the Muslim tradition where aunties and other family
members find potential mates in their social networks. Um chaperone
(19:33):
meetings are typical, but key both parties are allowed to
give the thumbs down in accordance with the Koran. And
this is because a story in the Koran showed that
Mohammed actually did spare a young woman from compulsory marriage.
So just because maybe your auntie set you up with
the boy down the street, doesn't mean you have to
give it a thumbs up, right, But and it's I
(19:54):
don't know. It's it's interesting to see how with all
of these major religions, obviously marriage place such a central
role in each of them, and this smatchmaking tradition in
their own different ways has gone back and then like
stretches back in all of the their respective religious texts
as well. UM, and so why we find it, I
(20:18):
don't know, strange at all that people might look to
an outside party to for help with finding their partner. Well,
it feels it feels to me, I mean, as someone
who that's definitely alien to my culture in the way
that I was raised, like that just seems scary, you know, like,
oh my god, you're gonna bring in who for me
to marry, Like who's to say I'm even kind of
like this person. But statistically, arranged marriages last longer, that's true.
(20:45):
And then for love marriages, right the it's between five
and seven percent of arranged marriages will end in divorce.
But you also have to take into account uh, cultural
traditions and legalities that might strongly just courage or prevent
you from dissolving a marriage. But they're anecdotally though. If
you read about UM arranged couples today, and we talked
(21:08):
about this again in the podcast that we did a
while ago on arranged marriages, they you know, there isn't
an expectation of being madly in love when you're at
the altar, but that a love will develop. You know,
it's more of like a a kindred intimacy rather than
this passionate love that we that we think about and
that whole notion of love marriage. As we've talked about
(21:31):
before in the podcast UM referencing Marriage a History by
Stephanie Coonts, which is a great book if you ever
want to check it out. UM. She talks about how
the concept of marrying for love is so new comparatively
in our history. It only came about in the West,
starting in the seventeen hundreds. Well, if you think about
(21:52):
it too, with arranged marriages and and matchmakers and everything,
they're they're not just willy nilly necessary well ideally, they're
not willingly just picking somebody for you. They are looking
at your background, your family, your interests, you know, your
religious beliefs and all that and finding someone who lines
up with that. And uh read A Seth who's the
author of the book First Comes Marriage, interviewed more than
(22:15):
three hundred women in arranged marriages and found that families
play a huge role in matchmaking and the marriage. And
he said that it's not just about the two of you,
and I think that over the long term, that takes
a lot of pressure off the relationship. Yeah, and um
scientific research would also back up this common thread among
(22:36):
most matchmakers, whether it's a totally secular matchmaker who is
making lots of money in Manhattan or elsewhere, um, or
you know these matchmakers in um different societies around the world.
It's it always goes a good match always goes back
to that common background. Where did you grow up, what
(22:57):
is your religion, what was your family like, what's your
education level? Those basic kind of things that seem incredibly unromantic.
But if we're thinking about whether or not matchmakers are
successful or if matchmaking really works, um, if we look
into our evolutionary past, I mean human animals get together
(23:17):
based on a thing called assortative mating, which essentially means
like pairs up with like yeah, and this is um,
this isn't the spark. Yeah, this is the foundation basically,
the the similarities you have, the the way that you're
going to go forward with the same values. And when
(23:37):
all you are is caught up in the spark maybe
or the sexual attraction of a relationship, you might miss
the fact that the relationship you're in doesn't have a
true foundation. Yeah. There is a study published in two
thousand eight in the Journal of Evolutionary Psychology that talked
to participants about their ideal partner and whether or not
(23:58):
they were looking for qualities that were similar to them
or complementary, and by and large, participants said that they
wanted someone who was a similar personality and they had
you know, you've got People often have their lists of
what mr is right looks like, and so they told
(24:18):
the facilitators these lists of ideal traits. But when it
came down to the actual type of person that they
were looking for, it was more of a complimentary partner
than someone who was alike them. And so the researchers
are thinking with this, maybe we aren't so good at
knowing what we really need. I don't know, maybe we aren't.
(24:41):
My mother would say, I'm not going to knowing what
I need. But but then again, though your mother, while
she might be able to on paper, okay, point out
all of those complimentary traits, perhaps that would work best
for you. A two thousand twelve analysis of online matchmaking
those publish in the journal Psychological Science would say you
(25:02):
know what, Your mom might be able to pick someone
good on paper, but she's not gonna be able to
find the spark, which, in academic parlance and the words
of this two thousand and twelve study, it's referred to
as relationship aptitude. That's how you are with other people,
and not even necessarily how you are with like the
(25:24):
two of us together, but how you just are with people.
Like the way that Kristen Conger relates to people means
that she she just made a face that while I'm laughing,
I'm I'm not having a problem. Um, I means that
she would be good with you know, person X over person.
Why am I am? I kind of hitting it there? Yeah,
I mean I think that's like, uh, you know, a
(25:46):
sort of mating. When we think about that, uh, look
for someone if you want a good foundation, look for
someone who is kind of from the same place that
you are in or have been. That sounds really dreary
and so exciting, but you have to put on top
of that relationship aptitude that would push a friendship into
(26:07):
a more romantic relationship. Yeah. And and it's to find,
you know, just to give you a better idea. It's
the constellation of traits, preferences, and personal history that makes
a person more likely to have good relationships in general.
And supposedly these professional matchmakers are not only good at
peering up people on paper, but they supposedly have some
(26:29):
kind of sixth sense for keying in on people's relationship
aptitude and going that way perhaps after some coaching and grooming. Yeah,
no hot tub on the first date. That's right. Patty
Singer would say no sex before monogamy. But Patty Singer
also has lots of very reductive romantic advice. That is, yeah,
(26:53):
that says mentally like boobs and things. Yeah, well we
won't go there. Yeah this time in this episode, du dunt.
So there you have it. Match making, it has happened.
It's one of the one I forget which article it was,
but they described matchmaking as women's second oldest profession. But
(27:15):
don't so anyone who has played matchmaker. If you are
a matchmaker who has been set up successfully, we want
to hear your matchmaking stories. I mean, do you think
that people should, you know, keep their nose out of
other people's romantic business, or our friends better at setting
us up, or matchmakers perhaps better at setting us up
(27:37):
than we might be. And let's hear those stories about
the really bad dates, the blind date. You want that,
you want, the bad I want the horror stories. Well,
lots of stories come, I hope mom. Stuff at Discovery
dot com is where you can send those good, bad, ugly,
romantic and terrifying tales of dating and matchmaking. And in
(27:59):
the mean time, we have a couple of emails here
from our episode on gender and heroism. Okay, well, I
found an email here from Mary and she works with
the E M. S. And she says the podcast got
me thinking about our triage protocols. When resources are insufficient,
(28:22):
we have to move on from some patients whose survivability
is low and help where we can make the most difference. However,
when faced with a child in peril, it's not uncommon
for paramedics to work on a child with little chance
of survival, sometimes a situation which would result in an
adult patient being classified as dead on arrival. When a
child is in the same situation, E M. S. Cruz
(28:43):
will transport. Once at the hospital, doctors, surgeons, janitors, nurses
and file clerks will drop everything to see if there
is anything they can do to help a child whose
death is inevitable, sometimes resulting in the diminished quality of
care to adult patients. Even with training and protocol, these
situations are difficult to avoid, especially in smaller hospitals. Just
(29:04):
one of the many challenges of practicing emergency medicine. That's
an interesting inside look onto r situations. Thank you, Mary Okay.
This is an email from ISKRIN also on our heroism
podcast uh It Starts. I'd like to congratulate you on
covering more deep and complex issues such as heroism. I'd
(29:26):
like to offer a point of view which you, along
with the rest of society, didn't touch on. Let me
paint you a picture. Imagine a curvy road and two
cars driving on it. The first car, occupied by one man,
misses a turn and crashes. The second car, occupied by
a couple, sees the accident and pulls over. The husband
from the second car manages to pull out the driver
of the first car, and he calls for help while
(29:47):
the ambulance arrives. The wife holds the injured man's hand
and comforts him. Later on, the medics arrive and save
the life of the driver. That's a pretty standard scenario
and more than likely the next day, there will be
an article in the local newspaper exalting the couple on
the medic on duty. At this point, most people consider
the case closed. However, it is not a day or
so after the accident, and engineers dispatched to the crash
(30:08):
site with the task of assessing the situation and coming
up with a plan to prevent future accidents. Over the
course of a few weeks or months, safety measures like finces, signs,
et cetera are built to prevent cars from going off
the road. One can argue that the engineer's work has
saved an infinitely greater number of lives than the married
couple and the medics, and yet the local newspaper doesn't
publish a follow up article on the preventative measures taken.
(30:31):
So here they are, the engineers, technician and scientists, the
unsung heroes of our society. So thank you for that,
and thanks to everyone who's written in Mom's Stuff at
discovery dot com is where you can send your letters.
You can also find us on Facebook, follow us on
Twitter at Mom's Stuff podcast, and guess what, We've got
something new for you to do as well, Ladies and gentlemen,
(30:54):
we are on Tumbler, so if you would like to
check out our blog over there, it still a lot
of fun stuff, so join us. Stuff mom never told you.
Dot Tumbler dot com is the U r L. And
of course, if that's not enough for you, you can
always head over to our home site, it's how stuff
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