June 2, 2021 • 50 mins
While friendships can be beautiful and powerful, unhealthy friendships can be draining and detrimental. Anney and Samantha discuss toxic friendships, abusive friendships, friendship fades and when and how to end a friendship.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph.
I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. Annie.
I have a question for you, Okay, can you tell
me a time in your childhood you had a friendship
(00:25):
ending moment? So the one that comes immediately to mind
actually wasn't a friendship ending moment for me, but one
of my best friends who's been on the show now, Katie,
and I have two best friends Katie, so that's very confusing.
But recently. Katie. We grew up together. We were neighbors,
(00:46):
and um, I loved hanging out with her. She was
friends with another Katie, my goodness, Katie Jokes, who was
like a cool kid, and I was very much not
a cool kid at this point. This was like third grade.
I was cool up until third great but then things changed.
But they were both at my house because Katie had
(01:06):
come to visit my friend Katie, and my friend Katie
wanted to come hang out with me. And I'm sorry
this is so confusing, but we were playing like that
game of Hot Scotch where you it's like a snail.
I don't know if anybody remembers that, but we loved
playing it and Katie Jones reached her boiling point and
said to my friend Katie, like, I don't like this girl, Annie.
(01:28):
You choose right here now which one of us is
it gonna be, because I will walk out of here
right now. We won't be friends anymore. And I was
just kind of shocked because I didn't know where this
code had come from. But my friend Katie, she just
continued to play the game in silence, didn't say anything,
(01:48):
and Katie Jones walked away by yourself at history was made? Wow, Yeah, okay,
it was pretty dramatic. That was dramatic. I've never had
a full fledged declaration and giving you an ultimatum. Wow,
especially in middle school that it was elementary school. Wow.
(02:10):
And uh yeah. They were not friends again after that.
And things were always awkward between me and Katie Jones.
And we both played clarinet and band. It was a
little tense. I love it. You gotta love have competition,
That's what that is, right. I was second chair, she
was third. Oh nice, you went no. Yeah. I think
(02:35):
I've had a few incidents. I know I had one
friend who was so bossy that I finally I remember
being on a swing set. I just looked at her
and yelled at her, stopped telling me what to do,
and walked off, and we were never friends after that.
It was weird because it was more of like she
was trying to get me to talk to a boy,
and I didn't like that. Yeah, and that was kind
(02:57):
of the end of the friendship because I was like,
I don't want to talk to even though I'm pretty
sure I would say annoying one as the kid. But
that's the one I can remember more so than anything else.
And a lot of my friendships didn't end because anything bad,
but a lot of them ended because they moved away
or circumstances happened where we changed an interest, But it
was never like we can't be friends I think of.
(03:22):
I did have my other next door neighbor, Jordan's. She
was a bit younger than me, and I kind of
resented her after a while because it was this situation
where we always car pulled together. We did our mom's
were friends, so it was just like convenience, and she
spent so much time at my house and we babysit
(03:42):
her family, and I really didn't like her brothers. I
felt like they were mean to my brother and they
took advantage of all of our stuff, Like we would
be not at home and we would come home and
they were like using all of our stuff, and it
it bothered me, but I was I think looking back,
I was kind of controlling, but she was also kind
of me, and I overheard her talking about me on
several occasions, and eventually I was like, I don't think
(04:07):
her friends anymore. You know, I had that too. I
had a friend that I was friends with her for
three or four years, but it was definitely one of
those friendships that I was her psychic, if you know
what I like. She would do all these things so
I would have to hang out with her to so
she could hang out with this boy. I would have
to do this with her that she would love that
I didn't want to do, but I'm like, okay, I'm here.
(04:28):
And I remember her trying to get validation and wanting
to flirt with boys, and that was fine. That was
just not something I want to do. And I was
very scared of boys at this point in time, and
I remember her making fun of me for that and
I was like, look, just because you like being with
all the guys doesn't mean I want to. She took
that as me calling her a slut and told her
friends that I was called I called her a slut,
(04:50):
and so like they completely heard that, and then I
was judgmental and I could hear them talking about me.
They would gang up on me on the bus. I
said by myself. Oh yeah, I was one of those stories.
We kept kind of in touch for the most part,
but we definitely because we were also different grades and
all of that, so that changed. She got a car,
I didn't get a car. I had to work. She
(05:12):
didn't have to work, so I was all nice for her.
But yeah, it was really weird friendship. I remember we're
trying to figure out how like a man. I was like,
this is a bad, uh teenage movie, right, But yes,
we've discussed. I'm sure everybody's wondering why we're talking about this,
and we've discussed before the power of female friendship and
(05:33):
the power of platonic female connection, and honestly, it's something
that's been a comfort and a lot of big, big
help in this last year. Friendship is, by the way
to fined by Miriam Webster as the state of being friends,
or the quality or state of being friendly. Just feel
like that's not strong enough of a definition to me,
(05:54):
because I'm like friendship was so powerful. Maybe that's right.
It's almost like the acquaintance. Yeah, I feel like there's
a bunch of levels of friends. You know, you've got
your your inner circle friends, and then you've got kind
of your acquaintance friends, and I don't know, yeah you do.
That's like the best friend title, Who's the best friend?
Who's your crew? Definitely a lot of titles to that.
(06:15):
And if you've been a listener of the show, I
think you probably already know. We are all about women
supporting women, and about how important it is to maintain
friendships with other women. As in fact, I've always been
one of those who go by the Leslie Nope motto
of uterus is before uterus is, and I mean that
for anyone with a uterus. And of course, one of
(06:37):
my I think one of my better qualities I don't know,
is that I am ridiculously loyal and I'm definitely one
of those that you just can't mess with my people.
If you do, I'm coming to get you real hard.
I don't agree. I think you're very loyal. I thank
you're a wonderful friend. Thank you. Yeah. I one of
the most fortunate areas I think in my life is
(07:01):
that I had really good and strong friendships with other
girls and women pretty much my entire life. And some
of those you know, did fade away or turned out
to not work out for whatever reason. But I had
a core group of friends from high school and I'm
still really good friends with him, we still see each other.
And then I have people from college, and then i
have people from work and like outside circles, and I
(07:26):
just think it's so whenever I'm thinking of difficult situations
and how do you get through it or what you
enjoy in life, it's almost always like, oh, I have
the support of my friends. I have the support of
this group of friends. They're there for me, and did
they bring so much joy and all so much support
as well. And I know people in my life who
(07:48):
I'm close to who don't have that, who don't have
a strong support group of friends, And I've just seen
how lucky I am to have it, like how difficult
it can be without it. So I am very much
with you, Samantha. I'm a huge proponent of friendships and
especially among women. And though we could continue to yes
(08:12):
sing the praises of female friendship. We aren't talking about
that necessarily today. No, today we wanted to take a
look at the end of friendships and specifically what happens
when women stop being friends with other women. And we
need to go ahead and let you know that many
of the articles about that are heavily weighed down with
a lot of misogynistic language, a lot of stereotypical ideas
(08:33):
of female friends, I eat caddy, backstabbing, drama queen, and
characteristics like that. So though we may mention it, please
take that with a grain of salt. Right. So, there
are several reasons why a friendship will and we talked
a little bit about it before in our own personal experiences,
and I'm sure we have all dealt with it for
(08:54):
some reason, but we wanted to look at why and
even when maybe we should go ahead and just let
it end. Yes, um, And one of those things. I've
never heard of this before, but when I heard the term,
I was immediately like, oh, yeah, I know what this is, um,
and that's friendship fade. Yes. So there have been different
reasons in ways to end a friendship, and one of
them is this one, which has been more of a
(09:16):
thing since the pandemic and lockdowns. I've definitely heard people
talk about it, like, you know who your real friends
are are, like just sticking friends. I feel like for me, though,
my experience has been there something that I have faded,
but I'm confident they're going to come back. Like we're
just not hanging out that much right now, and there's
a lot of stress, but I feel like if that eases,
(09:36):
we will hang out right. And then just because it
happens doesn't mean it happens because it's something bad or
because you make like you're being mean about it. It's
not always intended as negative. I don't like you thing
right exactly, But Okay, what exactly is friendship fade? According
to a Woman's Health article, friendship fade is the quote
feeling that you're formally tight connections are disappearing down a
(09:58):
pit of silence. Just not gloomy at all. Silence sounds
like a Dungeons dragon spell. There you go. Um, But
this is a bit different from the friendly fade, which
the Urban Dictionary defines as quote a passive aggressive method
(10:20):
to break up with a friend without being hurtful or
ghosting a friendship. And we will come back to that, right. So,
not surprisingly, the pandemic has opened up the possibility of
this happening, and there could be so many reasons outside
of just being overwhelmed and panicked about the state of
the world, and for me specifically, one of the reasons
(10:40):
of the fade is due to the fact like there's
nothing new, really meaningful that's happening right now. So I
feel like when people ask me, how are you, I
really have nothing to say other than yeah, you know, yeah.
My daily routine has come to the point that has
become monotonous. Wake up, take out the dog, eat, watch
(11:01):
the same shows over and over again, and go to
bed again. When when someone asked what I've been doing,
is there anything new going on with you? Literally, I'm
like no. My mom is the same, which is funny
because as the child, I feel like I'm the one
always kind of I don't do this anymore. But when
I was younger, I would dodge phone calls and stuff,
(11:23):
and now I get the feelings she's dodging by. And
she told me she's like, well, you know, I'm just
not doing much. I don't have much to talk about, right,
makes sense, Nor do I And that's definitely something I've noticed,
especially in conversations with her, because it used to be
kind of I would come in and I'd be like,
here's the fifteen thousand new things that have happened, and
(11:45):
now it's sort of like, oh, my shoeshido plant has
red shoshidos on it. Now she is exciting by the way,
and especially in regards to lockdowns and rules, people have
been divided on how to the letter, people maybe following
those rules and for some that changed their way. You
(12:05):
viewed that friendship, Um, yes, I mean it really has.
I think we even had so we just finally are
getting to the point we're going out. We hung out
with your co host from Saber, Lauren, and she was
talking about, you know, what she did during the pandemic,
and she made a statement, of course, I think you
and uh Annie had a little more stricter lockdown follows
(12:26):
and rules and we were like, yeah, and apparently people
have been going out and I'm like, oh wow, I
didn't know that. And definitely when making plans it was me,
you my partner, that was it. And if I wanted
to make plays with someone, we made sure that we
had a two week quarantine check up if we needed
to make sure that the other person had tested and
let each other know what's going on, and then we
(12:47):
wouldn't hang out. Apparently not everyone's doing that, and I
think we had. Did we have a conversation, Yeah, we
had a conversation about the fact that we want to
invite certain people, but we were thinking, I don't know
if they're actually following the quarantine. Yeah, it's been really
tough for me and I imagine for a lot of
people because it's not a shocking thing to hear, Like
(13:08):
I'm not I knew people were doing that, but so
I do get hurt by it, and I get a
little mad about it. And honestly, after we learned that, um,
we're hanging out that time, I went at home and
got really upset, and it's I had to think about
why it was upsetting me so much, and and there's
obviously something else going on there, but it is it's
an issue, and it's an issue where it's hard not
(13:31):
to have some sort of emotion one way or the
other where there's there's particularly in my case, I'm thinking
of one guy who I know when I meet when
we hang out, it's going to become a point where
he's going to be like, I don't get why you
were taking it so seriously, and it's going to be
hard for me not to fight with this guy. Yeah yeah,
(13:54):
I mean I could see that. I mean definitely for me,
a part of that whole, like people getting together, was
I felt left out. And this is a fear of mine,
of being doubt and unwanted. And even though it absolutely
was my rule and my choice, but hearing about the
after fact, because they knew where I stood and so
therefore of course I'm not gonna invite you wouldn't have come.
(14:16):
Very true, very true. Yes, I'm still hard by it.
I'm still hard by it. No. Isn't that the kicker though,
where it's like you know that you would have said no,
but you want to be asked anywhere exactly. I've said
that to a group of friends previously. I was like,
I know I'm not coming, and i know I'm having
a hard time responding to things, but please don't leave
me out. Yeah. No, I'm absolutely the same. I think
(14:40):
I'm glad I didn't know about this because I would
have been mad. Oh yeah, But in general, I do
like sometimes I just say yes because I'm afraid they'll
stop asking R go out right. But yeah, that's definitely
been the new waters to navigate when it comes to
(15:01):
friendships and ideas around quarantining and this whole pandemic because
it's also it goes back to almost that awkward the
joke of the awkward conversations you have with people now
where it's like, oh, what vaccine did you get? Oh? Right, right,
So it's kind of inevitably going to come up probably,
(15:22):
so it's just hard to avoid and it is people
have emotions and thoughts about it. They did, mm hmm.
And then there's also for women who have children and families,
perhaps just finding the time or energy to keep up
a friendship was too much. Can totally see that, right,
sounds exhausting, oh for sure, for sure, And many have
(15:46):
suffered loss or trash d and that type of experience
can completely flip a person's desire to socialize or even
feel like they can reach out to someone. And yeah,
that's that's another thing that I struggle with in friendships,
is being if I feel like I have something sad
or I gues's just not even fun to talk about.
(16:07):
I don't feel like I can talk about it because
I feel like they're going to be like, oh, this
is awkwerated. I don't want to be here right now.
I don't be talking about this. But that's what friendship
is is you're being open with people and all of that,
but especially when you think someone else is struggling to
you don't want to add to their struggles. And this
has been a time of struggling and which we're gonna
(16:29):
talk about in the bit. But yeah, I feel the
same way. Especially when I had my previous jobs. There
were debbut downer jobs to say the least. I came
in as the debbut downer of the group because if
they asked me how my day went, Oh, you don't
want to ask me how my day went. You know,
the tragedies and the sadness that happened in my field,
the many losses that I had over the winds, and
(16:51):
even my winds were sad. I remember I was trying
to explain to friends about something that was good, but
in what that sounded like. But it's still a child
all that didn't have a parent and was going through loss.
How is this good type of situation? And being told
stop talking, that's not that's so like it. I actually
(17:11):
was shut down and saying, really, you're gonna talk about
this now? And I'm like, some winters asked me how
my day with? And this is how my day with
and it was a victory for me, even though to
you it sounds really sad because you don't want to
talk about children and with loss. And I'm like, I'm sorry,
but yeah, that's that taught me real quick. Oh, I
can't talk to you, I can't be with you, I
(17:32):
can't let you know what's going on because you don't
want sad things. And unfortunately, with my job, that's the
majority of my stories. Right, that was a very dramatical
que out. I'm just saying, um, oh, we do you
have some more we want to discuss, but first we
have a quick break for word from ourspons there and
(18:06):
we're back. Thank you. Sponsored What do you do if
you have allowed the fade to occur? I'm very very
guilty of this, but want to snap back. It's time,
It's time we come back, right, maybe, I think again,
we've all been there. We get busy, overwhelmed, or just
don't have the mental capacity to call someone or even text.
(18:28):
But that's not because we don't want to. That's not
because we're trying to stop a friendship or fade a friendship.
It just happens. Life happens, So what can we do
to change that? Well, first and foremost, be gentle with
yourself and with your friends. It might have been a
few days or weeks ever since you've heard from your people,
But just like us, they're going through the hardships of
(18:50):
the currency of the world. But what if they're going
through other things as well? That's right, And I don't
know how many times I've been depressed or completely exhausted.
I'm thinking, why aren't people check it up on me?
Why can't they read my mind? And I know I
need them to check it up on me. But then
to realize maybe they're feeling the exact same thing, or
maybe they're going through something even harder, like those moments
(19:12):
of feeling like you're being neglected, you're also even neglecting others.
You never know what's happening, and just a simple hello,
And usually for me that's a gift of like, hey,
you know, I think my favorite one is the there's
a seal that runs up and does the wave. Okay, hello,
I love it, And that can change things that could
just be a simple I'm here, I'm checking up without
(19:33):
having to be too invasive, and it doesn't take that
much time because again, we never know too maybe in
the same place, and that miscommunication of who's going to
be the one that reaches out causes a kind of friction. Yeah. Yeah,
I had a friend who we actually sat down and
(19:53):
talked about this because she was fundamentally misunderstanding and I
was fun to mentally misunderstanding where both of us were
coming from because I I I was struggling with insecurity
and I still do where I don't want to be
annoying or bother people. So sometimes that means I won't
reach out because I don't want to bother people. But
(20:14):
to her that was reading as she's not reaching out, right, Um,
so there's that, and then I do. I very vividly
remember in college having the realization of even people who
look like they're so put together in quotes and everything's fine, Yeah,
you don't know what they're dealing with. You really don't
unless you check or ask, right. I used to have
(20:39):
I don't necessarily think this was a super healthy thing either,
but I used to have what I called the list
of don't neglect, and I would have people it was
just this list. I'm like checking on these people, and
I would go through the list, you know, every couple
of days, just to make sure keep in mind on
that list. Well, I don't do it anymore. This was
in This was like when I first graduated a college,
(21:01):
and I mean it was such a like anything to
do where I took something that should be fun and
it became much more of like a to do list,
and so I stopped doing it. But smart, Yeah, but yeah,
I didn't have those people in mind. And it doesn't
have to be big, like you said, it can just
be you know, I saw this thought of you. And
(21:22):
if they don't respond, that's cool. They are respond when
they can, hopefully. And yes, a simple a simple hello.
It can work, whether it's through a text, a phone call,
Marco Polo, whatever way you know, whatever way you typically
communicate with your friend, or sometimes it's fun to mix
it up. Just a simple connection can really do wonders.
(21:47):
And yeah, I remember your friendship as the ability to
just be yourself with someone right. One thing my friends
and I would always laugh about because I don't know,
there's an inside joke about just the fact that I'm
always sleepy. I'm always sleepy, I just am and you
know this, that we could just be around each other
and take a nap, and that's true friendship. Like we
would say, two friends nap together, and I thought it
(22:08):
was hilarious. But the overall ability is that we can
just be there without having to entertain one another, and
that was okay, that's fine. We can do our own thing,
but just be in each other's space. That's nice. Yeah.
I had my other friend Katie. We had a standing
naptime on Friday's at three pm. We would take naps together.
And look, when you get to the point where you're
(22:31):
super busy but you're trying to neglect your friendship, you
come together and you realize, oh my gosh, I'm so tired,
and the other persons like, yeah, me too. I'm like,
you know, let's just close their eyes fifteen minute breaks.
But there's something delightful to that. It is because you're
you're trusting someone, like you're kind of like vulnerable, sleepy,
not real interesting self at the moment. Yeah, and I
(22:56):
love and you're you're one of these friend about it.
But I love when you have a friendship where you
can kind of do your own thing. Like somebody will
be working on like one friend that she sketches a
lot when we hang out while I'm like working on
Dungeons and Dragons or fan fiction, and we're together and
we'll occasionally talk to each other. It can be really
(23:18):
short and easy going, but it's not like we're doing
something very exciting. It's kind of separate but together. But
there is, yeah, that camaraderie there there is. I think
there's something nice to that. And then also you can
be thoughtful and romantic with your friends and and you're
really great at this. And when I say that, giving
small gifts or large ones sometimes for no reason, just
(23:39):
to say I'm thinking about you. I saw this and
thought about you. It's really really nice. Yeah, and thank
you for saying that you are too. Um I I do.
It sounds really cheesy, but I get these moments of
just like such pure warm love for friends, or like
I gotta do something for this person right just gets
(24:00):
in my head and I'll do I'll send like a
silly video or yo, get a gift, but I just
get like overwhelmed with love for someone and I want
to do something and there have been so many different
occasions when someone has just needed to talk or feel loved,
and giving small tokens or small gifts is such an
amazing thing to do to show that thoughtfulness goes a
(24:23):
long way. And I mean, it's wonderful to get gifts
when you're expecting them, but it's also lovely to get
something when you're not. It doesn't have to be even
a gift, like like I said, I used to do.
I used to do a lot of funny videos or something. Right, Yes,
you definitely did one for me. I did. And you
know what, because of what we are using the word romantic,
this is also one of those that are usually typically
done by women. You don't see many male friends giving
(24:46):
each other things. I know that was a whole Stick
and New Girl in which Schmidt gives his friend Nick
a cookie and he just Nick is very suspicious. He's like,
why why are you giving me this cookie? Why? It
was a whole episode based on the fact that their thoughtfulness,
and he's like, men don't give each other kiss men
don't do these things. And it's it's typically correct that
(25:08):
I've only seen men give their romantic partners a gift.
But to give to each other. Seems so unusual. That
makes me said that they're missing out. Yeah, it can
be such a lovely, lovely thing. Yeah it is. But
maybe you're good without that particular friendship anymore. Yeah, and
(25:30):
that's okay, that's okay too. Maybe that friendship wasn't what
you really needed, or maybe it's no longer what you need,
or some of those differences that we talked about are
too big and it causes conflict and um it, maybe
it's not a balanced friendship to begin with. So let's
talk about that. Yes, okay, So when is a friendship unhealthy?
(25:51):
We wanted it to look into win a friendship is
not an actual friendship, So yes, let's start with toxic friendships.
Toxic and ship is something that causes a negative impact
on your life. They never give support or compassion in
your life. They are typically draining, unrewarding, stifling, unsatisfying, and
unequal and again from Urban Dictionary, these so called friends
(26:15):
often backstab, gossip, lie, act selfish, used a little, and
even manipulate, and are taking up more than giving back
to the friendship. Sadness and resentment is felt towards the
toxic friends and breaking away from these toxic friends is
a must, and you probably all heard terms like emotional
vampire or energy vampire as well, which doesn't necessarily have
to be a friend, but often goes into this whole thing. Right, So,
(26:41):
we did want to talk about some of the warning signs,
and there are a lot more out there. There are
a lot more articles that you can look at that
give you specific maybe actions that are taking place, But
we just do a few of those warning signs, and
one of them is that they always put you down.
So of course we're not necessarily talking about every once
in a while just a only jab where you tease
each other and move on, which I think I've done
(27:02):
to you. Yes, But if it's something that's not only
causes you to feel bad about yourself, or something that
causes your embarrassment, maybe you should rethink this friendship and
what it's about. An example that I think of on
the top of my head is the Main Girls movie
where poor Gretchen just constantly gets yelled at by Regina
(27:23):
and put down constantly about being told that her ideas
are dumb and everything she's doing is not as good
as her. That would be one of those put down,
not good friendships right. Another sign is crossing boundaries. Do
they make you uncomfortable? Do they keep pushing you to
do things you don't want to do, or they don't
listen when you let them know you don't like something
(27:44):
or don't want to be a part of something. That
is a sign. Another one is takers. Those friends who
use you for what you have, constantly coming to complain
and need advice, but they were chicken on you are
see how you are doing right, And then there's a
non supporter. We all have dreams, of course and goals
(28:04):
and we definitely need help sometimes, whether it's someone who
would call just to see how you're doing that day
or how are you doing with things, or those who
just show up for you for moral support. But if
someone is not doing this but you're constantly doing that
for them, that's not the one you want to be around.
That's not someone who is a good friend, someone who
if you're trying to do something new me I was
trying to knit, you're very supportive and I really appreciated
(28:26):
that as where those non supportive would probably go ahead
and talk down on you and ask you why you're
doing it and you're going to fail those are the
people you don't want to be around. Yes, Yes, And
when you get older and you look back on how
behaviors you had when you were younger, there were some
like I've really been working on, where I would get
(28:47):
jealous of friends. I would get jealous if I thought
like they were, you know, having a better life or whatever,
being cooler. And it was really hard for me to
not like say something kind of snarky about it or
something and kind of a put down. And that's been
something I've recognized and I've like actively tried to work
on as I've gotten older. And that's something to keep
(29:07):
in mind too, is to look for those things in yourself,
and especially if you have a friend who says something
about it, you should you should examine that thing. And
I have a an instance of two friends in my
life were both my best friends, and they had a
huge fight in college and they have not made up.
One of them wants to, another one doesn't. But it's
(29:29):
also complicated because they're both my friends, and I've heard
both of their sides of it, and I get both
of their sides of it, and you know, you can't
force some point if they're not ready to be your
friend again. Then that's that's that's it. Yeah, it sucks,
but yeah, I would. I would just also keep in
mind your own behaviors and friendships as well, exactly. There's
(29:51):
also something called co rumination. Co rumination is defined as
quote extensive and frequent discussion, speculation, and focus on negative
feelings related to personal problems with close friends or friends. Um.
That's from the National Institute of Health. It usually involves
the constant discussion and rehashing of the same problems and
often includes focusing on quote causes, implications, and negative feelings
(30:14):
around that problem. So think of when you were going
through your bad breakup and you went to your closest
friends to talk about all the wise what went wrong
and how things could have changed. So, yeah, this is
actually this we need to watch this. I'm thinking about
the Sex in the City episode where specifically Carrie cannot
stop talking about Big at that point they've broken up
(30:36):
for the second time, and she goes on and on
and on and on to the point that her three
friends intervene and say, Okay, this is a big, big
intervention because you know he was called Big, because we
cannot deal with this that we cannot keep talking about
all the negatives. You're bringing everyone down, and not that
we don't want to talk about it, but we've given
you the week long allowance of doing so, and you
(31:00):
keep repeating the same thing and it's becoming really negative
for you as well as for us. And they were like,
you need a therapist, and apparently they're like, you know,
we have the same issues too, and we don't know
what to do. This is why we have therapists, because
we need someone else to give us an unbiased opinion
instead of yeah, that dude's a dick, which that dude
(31:21):
was a dick anyway, just quote over there. But yeah,
so of course talking with our friends and really letting
go when working through things isn't a bad thing, as
in fact, one of the things that cherish most is
being able to completely be honest about all my hurts
and insecurities and having friends comfort me or shake me
out of it, like I really need that reality check.
(31:42):
So co reminting can be a function of bonding for
many friends and can in the long run busess it
in a higher relationship satisfaction. And this is according to
a study completed by the Oklahoma State University. Not only
that but the quality of the relationship and social support
are also higher for those who co remon so not
all bad thing, and apparently this is only typically seen
(32:04):
in friendships with women. So men don't co ruminate, according
to the statistic, with their male friends. It's not something
that they do. They don't sit and empathize with each other,
which we've kind of talked about a little before, but
they specifically said this is not a thing that happens
with men. Wow. Yeah, Yeah. However, there is some bad.
(32:25):
It's not all good because co ruminating is essentially sharing
and feeling each other's stress and anxiety, and it can
become a negative cycle and once you feed off each
other's stressors, causing a higher stress synchronicity that can also
trigger other mental health issues like depression. Psychologist Amanda Rose
found when women co ruminate, they were quote more susceptible
to emotional disorders. And with that, if your friendship is
(32:48):
based on shared pain or bad experiences, there's a danger
that you quote might start manufacturing that pain to keep
the relationship going, and doing so can lead to a
quote elevated risk of DEPRESSI and anxiety. If these friendships
are dependent on only the bad and painful things in
the relationship, perhaps it's time to reflect on if that
(33:09):
relationship is healthy. And there are examples, uh specifically through
people who were talking about they actually really thrived on
when their friends were going through bad things and we're
excited by that and was wanting to be the go
person And you know, the co ruminating part is a
little too real for me. I feel I feel like
attacked reading this. I'm not gonna lie because I want
(33:29):
to be a go to person for people. That's kind
of the thing. I think that's part of my whole
caregiver mentality that I really want to be there for you,
and so knowing that you trust me enough to come
to me in these dark times, it feels so rewarding
that it's like, yeah, it kind of does feed into
I know I'm needed, and therefore I'm going to keep
(33:50):
being needed by being this person. And maybe if you
have these traumas then this is good for me, right,
but it is it's really unhealthy when you take on
too much. I remember there was one point where two
of my closest friends were going through really really hard
things and I was crying and upset about it. Later
on to the point that I realized that I was
in pain because they were in such pain that I
(34:11):
felt like I couldn't be happy. Right, it was a
weird day, and they weren't doing that on purpose. And
please understand, these two friends are the best friends that
I've had, and I could do the same with them,
and I have done the same with them, but because
of what was happening that it was so intense, because
it just felt like everybody was falling apart, that I
didn't have the right to be okay, yeah, and where
(34:31):
is I Like, On the other hand, I'm someone who
struggles with like everything has to be even, and so
I've already and this is such a terrible thing, but
I've already been like, here are the people who were
really there for me when my dad died, so when
their parents died really, which is awful, Like I want
(34:52):
to be there for them, but it's it's just one
of those things where it's like, already stressing me out
that happened. Ye, You're like, I have who do I owe? Yep, yep.
And again that's not what friendship is. That's not what
it's about. Um. You should try to be as like
equal as possible in giving and receiving. But it's not
like a book, right, It's not like a debt sheet
(35:14):
that you need to keep track of. I mean, you
should keep in mind if one person is doing a
lot more than the other, But in general it evens
out right, right, even like true friendship, you do for
each other without thinking about that because it's automatic. It's
easy from both them so for sure. And you know,
I never really knew the term co ruminating, so it's like, oh, oh,
(35:35):
that's what that is. Ro So it's something to think on,
for sure, But to go a little deeper than just
co ruminating and toxic friendships, we did want to talk
a little bit about abuse of friendships, and it's not
talked about often, but it should be something that people
are aware of and should watch out for. As in fact,
a couple of articles we're talking about the fact that
(35:56):
this is not addressed because it's not technically seeing as
domestic violence, and so therefore people don't recognize it as
quickly and realize how harmful it could be. But more
often than not, abuse of friendships and toxic friendships get
mixed up, so we just kind of use those words interchangeably.
And there is a subtle difference within abuse of friendships.
You do against see the similar signs of toxic friendship,
(36:19):
but it continues on. As one article states, abuse of
friendships often start on a positive note, but then the
abuser may use repetition compulsion, which is when an abused
person may unknowingly replay unresolved family dysfunctions in a new
adult relationship, and that abuser uses that so they know
what you've gone through and are able to use that
(36:39):
tactic against you, much like an abuser. Essentially, the person
who is mistreated or abused may have gone through a
lot in their childhood and endured so much in the
childhood that it becomes a norm and is familiar. So
therefore they don't realize that that's what's being extended into
these friendships. And oftentimes you see you don't realize that
(36:59):
they attended that's falling on you and you feel like
that's what you deserve or that's what friendship is. Yeah,
there are definitely in some situations, never like this to
this extent, but there have been situations where I looked
back and I was like, Wow, that wasn't a good friendship,
but at the time it seemed normal, and it's it
felt like it just almost like the frog in the
boiling pot, where you know, slowly got worse and worse,
(37:21):
but you were thinking this as your friend, and it
would be a failure to cut off the friendship, right,
so we have to stay friends. Abusers will play on
your insecurities, but only after they have quotes seduced you
into a trusting relationship, and they are often excessively charming
and attentive. Some other warning signs include harassment, dishonesty, and manipulations.
(37:42):
They are also likely to be very argumentative and critical,
and abusive friendships can cause so many mental health and
physical issues, such as depression, anxiety, stomach problems, high blood pressure,
and even PTSD. I think again, we did want to
address this, and of course this is still vague. Might
not be all about the physical abuse, which is what's
(38:02):
so easily noted as this is abuse, but this emotional
manipulative tactics that causes people to be triggered in so
many ways by what their actions are because they know
they can trigger you or guilt you, or manipulate you
into feeling that you owe them something, that it becomes
an abusive relationship right, and we we do have a
(38:25):
little bit more for your listeners, but first we're gonna
pause for one more work break for work from our
sponsored and we're back, thank you sponsored. So not all
(38:48):
friendships and because it's bad. So it's not all about
toxic friendships and or abusive friendships. But you know, things happen,
we grow, we change, and sometimes that means friendships change too.
And there are people I think on fondly, but perhaps
because of distance, we're not friends anymore. Maybe they started
(39:08):
a family, and because I don't have a family, it's
harder for us to relate, or it's harder to find time.
Any of those things could be reasons while we are
no longer friends. And yeah, just your interests and commonalities
have shifted. And of course there's also possibility that that
your difference in beliefs that changes friendships. Perhaps is politics.
(39:29):
And for me, definitely my friends from my hometown, I
don't talk to them as much. Some of us stopped
talking altogether because of their reactions to Black Lives Matter,
and that made me go, no, that that's a deal
breaker for me. If you can't see how this is racist, sorry,
that is it is what it is as well as
the fact that I was super religious growing up. I'm
(39:51):
no longer religious, and that changed a lot of friendships
from me from college and high school, which again super
religious to not and those people who are super religious
still doesn't mesh too well in the end. Yeah. Yeah,
And that is one of those things of growing friendships
and changing friendships because I too came from a very
(40:12):
small conservative town and sometimes because I was liberal back
then and most people are conservative, and I'm getting fights.
It's like my seventh grade with my friends about the
rock Wars, but I didn't have like too many like
minded friends to choose from. But some of my friends
who didn't think that way then I've changed, which when
(40:36):
they got out of the small town and and things
like that. So yeah, for sure, And that's something I've
always struggled with where I'm just so determined. But we
were such good friends. We have to stay good friends.
But sometimes, yeah, it's just you change and they change
and things. Life changes. Life changes. It does. That's not
to say I do think you can make things work
(40:57):
if there's like an equal amount of interest in time.
But yeah, however, what if you want to break up
of the friends how do you do that. You can
limit time. Sometimes ending a friendship is not necessary. Maybe
it's all about limiting the amount of time or even
specific situations, maybe only in group settings or maybe one
on one setting. Boundaries are always a beautiful thing. Yeah.
(41:21):
Definitely had a friend of mine who I didn't get
along with a person and the way they explained their friendship,
not that they had to explain the friendship, but because
I wasn't the only one who was like, I can't
be around this person. They are too much of this,
this and this, and I'm going to go off. I
think I've said that I have I have a short tepper.
But they were like, yeah, they're one of those friends
(41:42):
that they're better one on one. They're really sweet and
very attentive. They get around a group of people and
they don't know how to pull back and just our
vibrant personality. And I'm like, okay, okay, yeah you have
that one on one setting. I'm good. Which is not nice,
but whatever, but yeah. Also, we talked a little bit
(42:03):
before about the fading the ghost thing. It's a slow
walking away from a relationship. And I'd say this metaphorically obviously,
and it maybe the best solution possible, especially when we're
talking about abusive or toxic relationships where you feel like
it's just being combative trying to have a conversation with it.
So whether it's you know, less texting, a little more time,
(42:25):
not seeing them as much as you used to, or altogether,
you know, not answering the call immediately kind of situation,
not confiding in them so much, that might be a
solution for you if you really feel like that's the
only solution. Then again, let's say it is a really
deep and personal relationship, but there's something that has happened
that you feel like this is not gonna work a
(42:46):
face to face conversation. It could work. Just be honest
and open and also be willing to admit yourself when
you haven't been the best friend as well, and so
that could be a solution. I will say I know
many people as of late sending emails, and I've actually
had an email they weren't necessarily trying to break the well,
(43:07):
it did sound like a breakup letter. It did sound
like a break up letter. Actually, it's happened to me twice.
Oh my goshuld remember this. So it's happened to me twice, man,
I must be a bad friend. The first time was
because I was super religious and pompous and over the top,
and when they corrected me, I was like, you're correct,
I'm so sorry, and we were fine after that. That
opened up a whole other conversation. Another one was because
(43:29):
they decided that because they were married now that they
wanted to start a family and being around single friends
wasn't good for them. Right, they broke up with me
and know, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to laugh at
your I'm a bad friend. I just I just remembered why,
and remembering those, I'm like, wow. And of course, to
(43:52):
be fair, it wasn't a bad thing to me, And
I was like, yeah, okay, are Yeah. We were talking
about those recently, So I guess I have a combo.
I have a combo example, because I have an email
fade out situation that just happened, which this person was
one of my best friends. We've known each other since
(44:13):
we were four years old. We've traveled together, um, we
went to college together, we were roommates for a while,
and she moved out of the country. She there are
also issues around uh she really didn't like other women,
which didn't sit well with me because I was like,
what about me? Though, I don't know how I feel
(44:34):
about this, and then yeah, yeah, there there's some issues,
but but I wanted to keep the friendship going, and
so we had like an email thing that slowly dropped
pretty much like twice a year. We did go on
to journeys abroad during that time, but this was the
first year. She sent me an email last year and
was like, oh my gosh, pandemic, how are you going
in the US, and what's been going on with you?
(44:55):
I'm so sorry I haven't been in contact. I'm really
bad about it. I center this whole thing and I
was like, this is what's going on with me? How
are you? Don't worry about, you know, being a bad contact.
I've just got here from you and I've never heard
from Ergian. And this is her first birthday where I
didn't send the like happy birthday thing because I guess
we're done right. It's weird too, that situation is weird.
(45:16):
I wonder if anyone else can relate to this, where
we would have a lot of discussions where she would
like say, this is my problems with you, and I'm
someone who tries to be really self aware, especially like
as I've gotten older. It wasn't in high school or whatever,
but like as I've gotten older, sometimes she would say
things where I'm like, am I just being really up
(45:38):
to because that doesn't sound like how I've interpreted these
situations at all. It's just odd. Yeah, if someone is
so quick and constantly trying to tell you you're bad,
that would be toxic. That's the put down thing. She
was definitely a friend where like I was very, very
worried all the time that whatever I said or did
(46:00):
our friendship was over and that was right, that was
the end. But we do have some wonderful time together
and it does make me sad right there there. Definitely is.
I think that's the part of the problem. Is when
you remember the good times and it's been long enough
that you forgot the bad times, you're like, oh, but
it's nice to have those memories. And I've always been
(46:21):
that type of person who would say that I love
meeting people, even though I'm an introvert, because they change
your perspective somehow, and you find something new about yourself
in that relationship, and hopefully it's a good thing. And
even if it's a bad thing, it's still a lesson
to learn at the very least. And then as I'm
getting into forty, yeah, I only have time for essential friendship,
(46:43):
meaning people who I can feed into and they can
feed into me and we can come out together as
better people. Like it's just when you get to a
certain age, it's harder to make friends. A B. I've
become more set in my ways as I get older,
and it's harder for me to change personality to fit
You don't get me wrong. Reading a room and being
(47:04):
able to at least understand and be compassionate and all
of that for sure. But at the same time, I'm
not going to be giddy, happy, sweet, go lucky girl.
That's just not me right, And I no longer have
tie right or the middle capacity to try to change
my personality to fit into this. I mean, I feel
(47:25):
like I struggled enough just without work and try to
be professional. I don't know that, you know, like professional
is hard for me? Yeah? Yeah, And I think that's
something we all kind of learn and go through. Is essentially,
what is this friendship giving me? Is it worth the
(47:46):
time and energy? And I know back when i UM
first started and we were this stuff I've never told
you At the YouTube channel that was really active. That
was one of the things we heard the most from
young listeners especially was how do I I'm in a
toxic friendship? What do I do? UM? So I know
that this is something we all have dealt with and
(48:08):
seeing right, So I hope that this helps in some way. Yes,
And the good news is there are people out there
who can connect. And there was a survey that said
that one inton people don't actually have close friends. That
made me sad because I definitely could tell you immediately
the four people that I could call if I was
(48:29):
in an emergency state, and it makes me sad to
think that someone might go without that because for sure,
as a person who don't feel close to my family
didn't have a family at one point in time, my
friends are my family. So I can't imagine what it
would be like not to have people close to me
that I could lean on and know that will be
(48:49):
there for the times that I can't be there for
myself or that I can't see the reason to keep going,
because I've had many of those times. But having friends
to truly be there to hold my and in the
darkest moments. That's been a lifesaver, literally a lifesaver for me. Yes,
I totally agree. That's very, very, very powerful, and I
(49:11):
wish that everyone had it because I don't. I think
it does make you good. Friendships help you make you better,
because I have to you and Samantha knows. I've been
on a fan fiction binge. I just read a fan
fiction where one of the characters was about to die
and realized like literally no one would come to save
(49:33):
him because he's a terrible person and some friends changed
his ways once he survived. That sounds like a scrooge.
I'm very very much Yes, yes, don't be a scrooge everyone,
And if you need friends and you've been listening to
us and count as as friends, please know we are
(49:55):
your friends. Yes, yes, we really do appreciate the support
from all you. That is a true statement. And if
you would like to contact us, you can our emails
Stuff Media, mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com.
You can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never
Told You, are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks
it's always to our super producer Christina, who is also
a friend. Yes, and thanks to you for listening stuff
(50:16):
I never told you the production of iHeart Radio. For
more podcast from My heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph.
I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. Annie.
I have a question for you, Okay, can you tell
me a time in your childhood you had a friendship
(00:25):
ending moment? So the one that comes immediately to mind
actually wasn't a friendship ending moment for me, but one
of my best friends who's been on the show now, Katie,
and I have two best friends Katie, so that's very confusing.
But recently. Katie. We grew up together. We were neighbors,
(00:46):
and um, I loved hanging out with her. She was
friends with another Katie, my goodness, Katie Jokes, who was
like a cool kid, and I was very much not
a cool kid at this point. This was like third grade.
I was cool up until third great but then things changed.
But they were both at my house because Katie had
(01:06):
come to visit my friend Katie, and my friend Katie
wanted to come hang out with me. And I'm sorry
this is so confusing, but we were playing like that
game of Hot Scotch where you it's like a snail.
I don't know if anybody remembers that, but we loved
playing it and Katie Jones reached her boiling point and
said to my friend Katie, like, I don't like this girl, Annie.
(01:28):
You choose right here now which one of us is
it gonna be, because I will walk out of here
right now. We won't be friends anymore. And I was
just kind of shocked because I didn't know where this
code had come from. But my friend Katie, she just
continued to play the game in silence, didn't say anything,
(01:48):
and Katie Jones walked away by yourself at history was made? Wow, Yeah, okay,
it was pretty dramatic. That was dramatic. I've never had
a full fledged declaration and giving you an ultimatum. Wow,
especially in middle school that it was elementary school. Wow.
(02:10):
And uh yeah. They were not friends again after that.
And things were always awkward between me and Katie Jones.
And we both played clarinet and band. It was a
little tense. I love it. You gotta love have competition,
That's what that is, right. I was second chair, she
was third. Oh nice, you went no. Yeah. I think
(02:35):
I've had a few incidents. I know I had one
friend who was so bossy that I finally I remember
being on a swing set. I just looked at her
and yelled at her, stopped telling me what to do,
and walked off, and we were never friends after that.
It was weird because it was more of like she
was trying to get me to talk to a boy,
and I didn't like that. Yeah, and that was kind
(02:57):
of the end of the friendship because I was like,
I don't want to talk to even though I'm pretty
sure I would say annoying one as the kid. But
that's the one I can remember more so than anything else.
And a lot of my friendships didn't end because anything bad,
but a lot of them ended because they moved away
or circumstances happened where we changed an interest, But it
was never like we can't be friends I think of.
(03:22):
I did have my other next door neighbor, Jordan's. She
was a bit younger than me, and I kind of
resented her after a while because it was this situation
where we always car pulled together. We did our mom's
were friends, so it was just like convenience, and she
spent so much time at my house and we babysit
(03:42):
her family, and I really didn't like her brothers. I
felt like they were mean to my brother and they
took advantage of all of our stuff, Like we would
be not at home and we would come home and
they were like using all of our stuff, and it
it bothered me, but I was I think looking back,
I was kind of controlling, but she was also kind
of me, and I overheard her talking about me on
several occasions, and eventually I was like, I don't think
(04:07):
her friends anymore. You know, I had that too. I
had a friend that I was friends with her for
three or four years, but it was definitely one of
those friendships that I was her psychic, if you know
what I like. She would do all these things so
I would have to hang out with her to so
she could hang out with this boy. I would have
to do this with her that she would love that
I didn't want to do, but I'm like, okay, I'm here.
(04:28):
And I remember her trying to get validation and wanting
to flirt with boys, and that was fine. That was
just not something I want to do. And I was
very scared of boys at this point in time, and
I remember her making fun of me for that and
I was like, look, just because you like being with
all the guys doesn't mean I want to. She took
that as me calling her a slut and told her
friends that I was called I called her a slut,
(04:50):
and so like they completely heard that, and then I
was judgmental and I could hear them talking about me.
They would gang up on me on the bus. I
said by myself. Oh yeah, I was one of those stories.
We kept kind of in touch for the most part,
but we definitely because we were also different grades and
all of that, so that changed. She got a car,
I didn't get a car. I had to work. She
(05:12):
didn't have to work, so I was all nice for her.
But yeah, it was really weird friendship. I remember we're
trying to figure out how like a man. I was like,
this is a bad, uh teenage movie, right, But yes,
we've discussed. I'm sure everybody's wondering why we're talking about this,
and we've discussed before the power of female friendship and
(05:33):
the power of platonic female connection, and honestly, it's something
that's been a comfort and a lot of big, big
help in this last year. Friendship is, by the way
to fined by Miriam Webster as the state of being friends,
or the quality or state of being friendly. Just feel
like that's not strong enough of a definition to me,
(05:54):
because I'm like friendship was so powerful. Maybe that's right.
It's almost like the acquaintance. Yeah, I feel like there's
a bunch of levels of friends. You know, you've got
your your inner circle friends, and then you've got kind
of your acquaintance friends, and I don't know, yeah you do.
That's like the best friend title, Who's the best friend?
Who's your crew? Definitely a lot of titles to that.
(06:15):
And if you've been a listener of the show, I
think you probably already know. We are all about women
supporting women, and about how important it is to maintain
friendships with other women. As in fact, I've always been
one of those who go by the Leslie Nope motto
of uterus is before uterus is, and I mean that
for anyone with a uterus. And of course, one of
(06:37):
my I think one of my better qualities I don't know,
is that I am ridiculously loyal and I'm definitely one
of those that you just can't mess with my people.
If you do, I'm coming to get you real hard.
I don't agree. I think you're very loyal. I thank
you're a wonderful friend. Thank you. Yeah. I one of
the most fortunate areas I think in my life is
(07:01):
that I had really good and strong friendships with other
girls and women pretty much my entire life. And some
of those you know, did fade away or turned out
to not work out for whatever reason. But I had
a core group of friends from high school and I'm
still really good friends with him, we still see each other.
And then I have people from college, and then i
have people from work and like outside circles, and I
(07:26):
just think it's so whenever I'm thinking of difficult situations
and how do you get through it or what you
enjoy in life, it's almost always like, oh, I have
the support of my friends. I have the support of
this group of friends. They're there for me, and did
they bring so much joy and all so much support
as well. And I know people in my life who
(07:48):
I'm close to who don't have that, who don't have
a strong support group of friends, And I've just seen
how lucky I am to have it, like how difficult
it can be without it. So I am very much
with you, Samantha. I'm a huge proponent of friendships and
especially among women. And though we could continue to yes
(08:12):
sing the praises of female friendship. We aren't talking about
that necessarily today. No, today we wanted to take a
look at the end of friendships and specifically what happens
when women stop being friends with other women. And we
need to go ahead and let you know that many
of the articles about that are heavily weighed down with
a lot of misogynistic language, a lot of stereotypical ideas
(08:33):
of female friends, I eat caddy, backstabbing, drama queen, and
characteristics like that. So though we may mention it, please
take that with a grain of salt. Right. So, there
are several reasons why a friendship will and we talked
a little bit about it before in our own personal experiences,
and I'm sure we have all dealt with it for
(08:54):
some reason, but we wanted to look at why and
even when maybe we should go ahead and just let
it end. Yes, um, And one of those things. I've
never heard of this before, but when I heard the term,
I was immediately like, oh, yeah, I know what this is, um,
and that's friendship fade. Yes. So there have been different
reasons in ways to end a friendship, and one of
them is this one, which has been more of a
(09:16):
thing since the pandemic and lockdowns. I've definitely heard people
talk about it, like, you know who your real friends
are are, like just sticking friends. I feel like for me, though,
my experience has been there something that I have faded,
but I'm confident they're going to come back. Like we're
just not hanging out that much right now, and there's
a lot of stress, but I feel like if that eases,
(09:36):
we will hang out right. And then just because it
happens doesn't mean it happens because it's something bad or
because you make like you're being mean about it. It's
not always intended as negative. I don't like you thing
right exactly, But Okay, what exactly is friendship fade? According
to a Woman's Health article, friendship fade is the quote
feeling that you're formally tight connections are disappearing down a
(09:58):
pit of silence. Just not gloomy at all. Silence sounds
like a Dungeons dragon spell. There you go. Um, But
this is a bit different from the friendly fade, which
the Urban Dictionary defines as quote a passive aggressive method
(10:20):
to break up with a friend without being hurtful or
ghosting a friendship. And we will come back to that, right. So,
not surprisingly, the pandemic has opened up the possibility of
this happening, and there could be so many reasons outside
of just being overwhelmed and panicked about the state of
the world, and for me specifically, one of the reasons
(10:40):
of the fade is due to the fact like there's
nothing new, really meaningful that's happening right now. So I
feel like when people ask me, how are you, I
really have nothing to say other than yeah, you know, yeah.
My daily routine has come to the point that has
become monotonous. Wake up, take out the dog, eat, watch
(11:01):
the same shows over and over again, and go to
bed again. When when someone asked what I've been doing,
is there anything new going on with you? Literally, I'm
like no. My mom is the same, which is funny
because as the child, I feel like I'm the one
always kind of I don't do this anymore. But when
I was younger, I would dodge phone calls and stuff,
(11:23):
and now I get the feelings she's dodging by. And
she told me she's like, well, you know, I'm just
not doing much. I don't have much to talk about, right,
makes sense, Nor do I And that's definitely something I've noticed,
especially in conversations with her, because it used to be
kind of I would come in and I'd be like,
here's the fifteen thousand new things that have happened, and
(11:45):
now it's sort of like, oh, my shoeshido plant has
red shoshidos on it. Now she is exciting by the way,
and especially in regards to lockdowns and rules, people have
been divided on how to the letter, people maybe following
those rules and for some that changed their way. You
(12:05):
viewed that friendship, Um, yes, I mean it really has.
I think we even had so we just finally are
getting to the point we're going out. We hung out
with your co host from Saber, Lauren, and she was
talking about, you know, what she did during the pandemic,
and she made a statement, of course, I think you
and uh Annie had a little more stricter lockdown follows
(12:26):
and rules and we were like, yeah, and apparently people
have been going out and I'm like, oh wow, I
didn't know that. And definitely when making plans it was me,
you my partner, that was it. And if I wanted
to make plays with someone, we made sure that we
had a two week quarantine check up if we needed
to make sure that the other person had tested and
let each other know what's going on, and then we
(12:47):
wouldn't hang out. Apparently not everyone's doing that, and I
think we had. Did we have a conversation, Yeah, we
had a conversation about the fact that we want to
invite certain people, but we were thinking, I don't know
if they're actually following the quarantine. Yeah, it's been really
tough for me and I imagine for a lot of
people because it's not a shocking thing to hear, Like
(13:08):
I'm not I knew people were doing that, but so
I do get hurt by it, and I get a
little mad about it. And honestly, after we learned that, um,
we're hanging out that time, I went at home and
got really upset, and it's I had to think about
why it was upsetting me so much, and and there's
obviously something else going on there, but it is it's
an issue, and it's an issue where it's hard not
(13:31):
to have some sort of emotion one way or the
other where there's there's particularly in my case, I'm thinking
of one guy who I know when I meet when
we hang out, it's going to become a point where
he's going to be like, I don't get why you
were taking it so seriously, and it's going to be
hard for me not to fight with this guy. Yeah yeah,
(13:54):
I mean I could see that. I mean definitely for me,
a part of that whole, like people getting together, was
I felt left out. And this is a fear of mine,
of being doubt and unwanted. And even though it absolutely
was my rule and my choice, but hearing about the
after fact, because they knew where I stood and so
therefore of course I'm not gonna invite you wouldn't have come.
(14:16):
Very true, very true. Yes, I'm still hard by it.
I'm still hard by it. No. Isn't that the kicker though,
where it's like you know that you would have said no,
but you want to be asked anywhere exactly. I've said
that to a group of friends previously. I was like,
I know I'm not coming, and i know I'm having
a hard time responding to things, but please don't leave
me out. Yeah. No, I'm absolutely the same. I think
(14:40):
I'm glad I didn't know about this because I would
have been mad. Oh yeah, But in general, I do
like sometimes I just say yes because I'm afraid they'll
stop asking R go out right. But yeah, that's definitely
been the new waters to navigate when it comes to
(15:01):
friendships and ideas around quarantining and this whole pandemic because
it's also it goes back to almost that awkward the
joke of the awkward conversations you have with people now
where it's like, oh, what vaccine did you get? Oh? Right, right,
So it's kind of inevitably going to come up probably,
(15:22):
so it's just hard to avoid and it is people
have emotions and thoughts about it. They did, mm hmm.
And then there's also for women who have children and families,
perhaps just finding the time or energy to keep up
a friendship was too much. Can totally see that, right,
sounds exhausting, oh for sure, for sure, And many have
(15:46):
suffered loss or trash d and that type of experience
can completely flip a person's desire to socialize or even
feel like they can reach out to someone. And yeah,
that's that's another thing that I struggle with in friendships,
is being if I feel like I have something sad
or I gues's just not even fun to talk about.
(16:07):
I don't feel like I can talk about it because
I feel like they're going to be like, oh, this
is awkwerated. I don't want to be here right now.
I don't be talking about this. But that's what friendship
is is you're being open with people and all of that,
but especially when you think someone else is struggling to
you don't want to add to their struggles. And this
has been a time of struggling and which we're gonna
(16:29):
talk about in the bit. But yeah, I feel the
same way. Especially when I had my previous jobs. There
were debbut downer jobs to say the least. I came
in as the debbut downer of the group because if
they asked me how my day went, Oh, you don't
want to ask me how my day went. You know,
the tragedies and the sadness that happened in my field,
the many losses that I had over the winds, and
(16:51):
even my winds were sad. I remember I was trying
to explain to friends about something that was good, but
in what that sounded like. But it's still a child
all that didn't have a parent and was going through loss.
How is this good type of situation? And being told
stop talking, that's not that's so like it. I actually
(17:11):
was shut down and saying, really, you're gonna talk about
this now? And I'm like, some winters asked me how
my day with? And this is how my day with
and it was a victory for me, even though to
you it sounds really sad because you don't want to
talk about children and with loss. And I'm like, I'm sorry,
but yeah, that's that taught me real quick. Oh, I
can't talk to you, I can't be with you, I
(17:32):
can't let you know what's going on because you don't
want sad things. And unfortunately, with my job, that's the
majority of my stories. Right, that was a very dramatical
que out. I'm just saying, um, oh, we do you
have some more we want to discuss, but first we
have a quick break for word from ourspons there and
(18:06):
we're back. Thank you. Sponsored What do you do if
you have allowed the fade to occur? I'm very very
guilty of this, but want to snap back. It's time,
It's time we come back, right, maybe, I think again,
we've all been there. We get busy, overwhelmed, or just
don't have the mental capacity to call someone or even text.
(18:28):
But that's not because we don't want to. That's not
because we're trying to stop a friendship or fade a friendship.
It just happens. Life happens, So what can we do
to change that? Well, first and foremost, be gentle with
yourself and with your friends. It might have been a
few days or weeks ever since you've heard from your people,
But just like us, they're going through the hardships of
(18:50):
the currency of the world. But what if they're going
through other things as well? That's right, And I don't
know how many times I've been depressed or completely exhausted.
I'm thinking, why aren't people check it up on me?
Why can't they read my mind? And I know I
need them to check it up on me. But then
to realize maybe they're feeling the exact same thing, or
maybe they're going through something even harder, like those moments
(19:12):
of feeling like you're being neglected, you're also even neglecting others.
You never know what's happening, and just a simple hello,
And usually for me that's a gift of like, hey,
you know, I think my favorite one is the there's
a seal that runs up and does the wave. Okay, hello,
I love it, And that can change things that could
just be a simple I'm here, I'm checking up without
(19:33):
having to be too invasive, and it doesn't take that
much time because again, we never know too maybe in
the same place, and that miscommunication of who's going to
be the one that reaches out causes a kind of friction. Yeah. Yeah,
I had a friend who we actually sat down and
(19:53):
talked about this because she was fundamentally misunderstanding and I
was fun to mentally misunderstanding where both of us were
coming from because I I I was struggling with insecurity
and I still do where I don't want to be
annoying or bother people. So sometimes that means I won't
reach out because I don't want to bother people. But
(20:14):
to her that was reading as she's not reaching out, right, Um,
so there's that, and then I do. I very vividly
remember in college having the realization of even people who
look like they're so put together in quotes and everything's fine, Yeah,
you don't know what they're dealing with. You really don't
unless you check or ask, right. I used to have
(20:39):
I don't necessarily think this was a super healthy thing either,
but I used to have what I called the list
of don't neglect, and I would have people it was
just this list. I'm like checking on these people, and
I would go through the list, you know, every couple
of days, just to make sure keep in mind on
that list. Well, I don't do it anymore. This was
in This was like when I first graduated a college,
(21:01):
and I mean it was such a like anything to
do where I took something that should be fun and
it became much more of like a to do list,
and so I stopped doing it. But smart, Yeah, but yeah,
I didn't have those people in mind. And it doesn't
have to be big, like you said, it can just
be you know, I saw this thought of you. And
(21:22):
if they don't respond, that's cool. They are respond when
they can, hopefully. And yes, a simple a simple hello.
It can work, whether it's through a text, a phone call,
Marco Polo, whatever way you know, whatever way you typically
communicate with your friend, or sometimes it's fun to mix
it up. Just a simple connection can really do wonders.
(21:47):
And yeah, I remember your friendship as the ability to
just be yourself with someone right. One thing my friends
and I would always laugh about because I don't know,
there's an inside joke about just the fact that I'm
always sleepy. I'm always sleepy, I just am and you
know this, that we could just be around each other
and take a nap, and that's true friendship. Like we
would say, two friends nap together, and I thought it
(22:08):
was hilarious. But the overall ability is that we can
just be there without having to entertain one another, and
that was okay, that's fine. We can do our own thing,
but just be in each other's space. That's nice. Yeah.
I had my other friend Katie. We had a standing
naptime on Friday's at three pm. We would take naps together.
And look, when you get to the point where you're
(22:31):
super busy but you're trying to neglect your friendship, you
come together and you realize, oh my gosh, I'm so tired,
and the other persons like, yeah, me too. I'm like,
you know, let's just close their eyes fifteen minute breaks.
But there's something delightful to that. It is because you're
you're trusting someone, like you're kind of like vulnerable, sleepy,
not real interesting self at the moment. Yeah, and I
(22:56):
love and you're you're one of these friend about it.
But I love when you have a friendship where you
can kind of do your own thing. Like somebody will
be working on like one friend that she sketches a
lot when we hang out while I'm like working on
Dungeons and Dragons or fan fiction, and we're together and
we'll occasionally talk to each other. It can be really
(23:18):
short and easy going, but it's not like we're doing
something very exciting. It's kind of separate but together. But
there is, yeah, that camaraderie there there is. I think
there's something nice to that. And then also you can
be thoughtful and romantic with your friends and and you're
really great at this. And when I say that, giving
small gifts or large ones sometimes for no reason, just
(23:39):
to say I'm thinking about you. I saw this and
thought about you. It's really really nice. Yeah, and thank
you for saying that you are too. Um I I do.
It sounds really cheesy, but I get these moments of
just like such pure warm love for friends, or like
I gotta do something for this person right just gets
(24:00):
in my head and I'll do I'll send like a
silly video or yo, get a gift, but I just
get like overwhelmed with love for someone and I want
to do something and there have been so many different
occasions when someone has just needed to talk or feel loved,
and giving small tokens or small gifts is such an
amazing thing to do to show that thoughtfulness goes a
(24:23):
long way. And I mean, it's wonderful to get gifts
when you're expecting them, but it's also lovely to get
something when you're not. It doesn't have to be even
a gift, like like I said, I used to do.
I used to do a lot of funny videos or something. Right, Yes,
you definitely did one for me. I did. And you
know what, because of what we are using the word romantic,
this is also one of those that are usually typically
done by women. You don't see many male friends giving
(24:46):
each other things. I know that was a whole Stick
and New Girl in which Schmidt gives his friend Nick
a cookie and he just Nick is very suspicious. He's like,
why why are you giving me this cookie? Why? It
was a whole episode based on the fact that their thoughtfulness,
and he's like, men don't give each other kiss men
don't do these things. And it's it's typically correct that
(25:08):
I've only seen men give their romantic partners a gift.
But to give to each other. Seems so unusual. That
makes me said that they're missing out. Yeah, it can
be such a lovely, lovely thing. Yeah it is. But
maybe you're good without that particular friendship anymore. Yeah, and
(25:30):
that's okay, that's okay too. Maybe that friendship wasn't what
you really needed, or maybe it's no longer what you need,
or some of those differences that we talked about are
too big and it causes conflict and um it, maybe
it's not a balanced friendship to begin with. So let's
talk about that. Yes, okay, So when is a friendship unhealthy?
(25:51):
We wanted it to look into win a friendship is
not an actual friendship, So yes, let's start with toxic friendships.
Toxic and ship is something that causes a negative impact
on your life. They never give support or compassion in
your life. They are typically draining, unrewarding, stifling, unsatisfying, and
unequal and again from Urban Dictionary, these so called friends
(26:15):
often backstab, gossip, lie, act selfish, used a little, and
even manipulate, and are taking up more than giving back
to the friendship. Sadness and resentment is felt towards the
toxic friends and breaking away from these toxic friends is
a must, and you probably all heard terms like emotional
vampire or energy vampire as well, which doesn't necessarily have
to be a friend, but often goes into this whole thing. Right, So,
(26:41):
we did want to talk about some of the warning signs,
and there are a lot more out there. There are
a lot more articles that you can look at that
give you specific maybe actions that are taking place, But
we just do a few of those warning signs, and
one of them is that they always put you down.
So of course we're not necessarily talking about every once
in a while just a only jab where you tease
each other and move on, which I think I've done
(27:02):
to you. Yes, But if it's something that's not only
causes you to feel bad about yourself, or something that
causes your embarrassment, maybe you should rethink this friendship and
what it's about. An example that I think of on
the top of my head is the Main Girls movie
where poor Gretchen just constantly gets yelled at by Regina
(27:23):
and put down constantly about being told that her ideas
are dumb and everything she's doing is not as good
as her. That would be one of those put down,
not good friendships right. Another sign is crossing boundaries. Do
they make you uncomfortable? Do they keep pushing you to
do things you don't want to do, or they don't
listen when you let them know you don't like something
(27:44):
or don't want to be a part of something. That
is a sign. Another one is takers. Those friends who
use you for what you have, constantly coming to complain
and need advice, but they were chicken on you are
see how you are doing right, And then there's a
non supporter. We all have dreams, of course and goals
(28:04):
and we definitely need help sometimes, whether it's someone who
would call just to see how you're doing that day
or how are you doing with things, or those who
just show up for you for moral support. But if
someone is not doing this but you're constantly doing that
for them, that's not the one you want to be around.
That's not someone who is a good friend, someone who
if you're trying to do something new me I was
trying to knit, you're very supportive and I really appreciated
(28:26):
that as where those non supportive would probably go ahead
and talk down on you and ask you why you're
doing it and you're going to fail those are the
people you don't want to be around. Yes, Yes, And
when you get older and you look back on how
behaviors you had when you were younger, there were some
like I've really been working on, where I would get
(28:47):
jealous of friends. I would get jealous if I thought
like they were, you know, having a better life or whatever,
being cooler. And it was really hard for me to
not like say something kind of snarky about it or
something and kind of a put down. And that's been
something I've recognized and I've like actively tried to work
on as I've gotten older. And that's something to keep
(29:07):
in mind too, is to look for those things in yourself,
and especially if you have a friend who says something
about it, you should you should examine that thing. And
I have a an instance of two friends in my
life were both my best friends, and they had a
huge fight in college and they have not made up.
One of them wants to, another one doesn't. But it's
(29:29):
also complicated because they're both my friends, and I've heard
both of their sides of it, and I get both
of their sides of it, and you know, you can't
force some point if they're not ready to be your
friend again. Then that's that's that's it. Yeah, it sucks,
but yeah, I would. I would just also keep in
mind your own behaviors and friendships as well, exactly. There's
(29:51):
also something called co rumination. Co rumination is defined as
quote extensive and frequent discussion, speculation, and focus on negative
feelings related to personal problems with close friends or friends. Um.
That's from the National Institute of Health. It usually involves
the constant discussion and rehashing of the same problems and
often includes focusing on quote causes, implications, and negative feelings
(30:14):
around that problem. So think of when you were going
through your bad breakup and you went to your closest
friends to talk about all the wise what went wrong
and how things could have changed. So, yeah, this is
actually this we need to watch this. I'm thinking about
the Sex in the City episode where specifically Carrie cannot
stop talking about Big at that point they've broken up
(30:36):
for the second time, and she goes on and on
and on and on to the point that her three
friends intervene and say, Okay, this is a big, big
intervention because you know he was called Big, because we
cannot deal with this that we cannot keep talking about
all the negatives. You're bringing everyone down, and not that
we don't want to talk about it, but we've given
you the week long allowance of doing so, and you
(31:00):
keep repeating the same thing and it's becoming really negative
for you as well as for us. And they were like,
you need a therapist, and apparently they're like, you know,
we have the same issues too, and we don't know
what to do. This is why we have therapists, because
we need someone else to give us an unbiased opinion
instead of yeah, that dude's a dick, which that dude
(31:21):
was a dick anyway, just quote over there. But yeah,
so of course talking with our friends and really letting
go when working through things isn't a bad thing, as
in fact, one of the things that cherish most is
being able to completely be honest about all my hurts
and insecurities and having friends comfort me or shake me
out of it, like I really need that reality check.
(31:42):
So co reminting can be a function of bonding for
many friends and can in the long run busess it
in a higher relationship satisfaction. And this is according to
a study completed by the Oklahoma State University. Not only
that but the quality of the relationship and social support
are also higher for those who co remon so not
all bad thing, and apparently this is only typically seen
(32:04):
in friendships with women. So men don't co ruminate, according
to the statistic, with their male friends. It's not something
that they do. They don't sit and empathize with each other,
which we've kind of talked about a little before, but
they specifically said this is not a thing that happens
with men. Wow. Yeah, Yeah. However, there is some bad.
(32:25):
It's not all good because co ruminating is essentially sharing
and feeling each other's stress and anxiety, and it can
become a negative cycle and once you feed off each
other's stressors, causing a higher stress synchronicity that can also
trigger other mental health issues like depression. Psychologist Amanda Rose
found when women co ruminate, they were quote more susceptible
to emotional disorders. And with that, if your friendship is
(32:48):
based on shared pain or bad experiences, there's a danger
that you quote might start manufacturing that pain to keep
the relationship going, and doing so can lead to a
quote elevated risk of DEPRESSI and anxiety. If these friendships
are dependent on only the bad and painful things in
the relationship, perhaps it's time to reflect on if that
(33:09):
relationship is healthy. And there are examples, uh specifically through
people who were talking about they actually really thrived on
when their friends were going through bad things and we're
excited by that and was wanting to be the go
person And you know, the co ruminating part is a
little too real for me. I feel I feel like
attacked reading this. I'm not gonna lie because I want
(33:29):
to be a go to person for people. That's kind
of the thing. I think that's part of my whole
caregiver mentality that I really want to be there for you,
and so knowing that you trust me enough to come
to me in these dark times, it feels so rewarding
that it's like, yeah, it kind of does feed into
I know I'm needed, and therefore I'm going to keep
(33:50):
being needed by being this person. And maybe if you
have these traumas then this is good for me, right,
but it is it's really unhealthy when you take on
too much. I remember there was one point where two
of my closest friends were going through really really hard
things and I was crying and upset about it. Later
on to the point that I realized that I was
in pain because they were in such pain that I
(34:11):
felt like I couldn't be happy. Right, it was a
weird day, and they weren't doing that on purpose. And
please understand, these two friends are the best friends that
I've had, and I could do the same with them,
and I have done the same with them, but because
of what was happening that it was so intense, because
it just felt like everybody was falling apart, that I
didn't have the right to be okay, yeah, and where
(34:31):
is I Like, On the other hand, I'm someone who
struggles with like everything has to be even, and so
I've already and this is such a terrible thing, but
I've already been like, here are the people who were
really there for me when my dad died, so when
their parents died really, which is awful, Like I want
(34:52):
to be there for them, but it's it's just one
of those things where it's like, already stressing me out
that happened. Ye, You're like, I have who do I owe? Yep, yep.
And again that's not what friendship is. That's not what
it's about. Um. You should try to be as like
equal as possible in giving and receiving. But it's not
like a book, right, It's not like a debt sheet
(35:14):
that you need to keep track of. I mean, you
should keep in mind if one person is doing a
lot more than the other, But in general it evens
out right, right, even like true friendship, you do for
each other without thinking about that because it's automatic. It's
easy from both them so for sure. And you know,
I never really knew the term co ruminating, so it's like, oh, oh,
(35:35):
that's what that is. Ro So it's something to think on,
for sure, But to go a little deeper than just
co ruminating and toxic friendships, we did want to talk
a little bit about abuse of friendships, and it's not
talked about often, but it should be something that people
are aware of and should watch out for. As in fact,
a couple of articles we're talking about the fact that
(35:56):
this is not addressed because it's not technically seeing as
domestic violence, and so therefore people don't recognize it as
quickly and realize how harmful it could be. But more
often than not, abuse of friendships and toxic friendships get
mixed up, so we just kind of use those words interchangeably.
And there is a subtle difference within abuse of friendships.
You do against see the similar signs of toxic friendship,
(36:19):
but it continues on. As one article states, abuse of
friendships often start on a positive note, but then the
abuser may use repetition compulsion, which is when an abused
person may unknowingly replay unresolved family dysfunctions in a new
adult relationship, and that abuser uses that so they know
what you've gone through and are able to use that
(36:39):
tactic against you, much like an abuser. Essentially, the person
who is mistreated or abused may have gone through a
lot in their childhood and endured so much in the
childhood that it becomes a norm and is familiar. So
therefore they don't realize that that's what's being extended into
these friendships. And oftentimes you see you don't realize that
(36:59):
they attended that's falling on you and you feel like
that's what you deserve or that's what friendship is. Yeah,
there are definitely in some situations, never like this to
this extent, but there have been situations where I looked
back and I was like, Wow, that wasn't a good friendship,
but at the time it seemed normal, and it's it
felt like it just almost like the frog in the
boiling pot, where you know, slowly got worse and worse,
(37:21):
but you were thinking this as your friend, and it
would be a failure to cut off the friendship, right,
so we have to stay friends. Abusers will play on
your insecurities, but only after they have quotes seduced you
into a trusting relationship, and they are often excessively charming
and attentive. Some other warning signs include harassment, dishonesty, and manipulations.
(37:42):
They are also likely to be very argumentative and critical,
and abusive friendships can cause so many mental health and
physical issues, such as depression, anxiety, stomach problems, high blood pressure,
and even PTSD. I think again, we did want to
address this, and of course this is still vague. Might
not be all about the physical abuse, which is what's
(38:02):
so easily noted as this is abuse, but this emotional
manipulative tactics that causes people to be triggered in so
many ways by what their actions are because they know
they can trigger you or guilt you, or manipulate you
into feeling that you owe them something, that it becomes
an abusive relationship right, and we we do have a
(38:25):
little bit more for your listeners, but first we're gonna
pause for one more work break for work from our
sponsored and we're back, thank you sponsored. So not all
(38:48):
friendships and because it's bad. So it's not all about
toxic friendships and or abusive friendships. But you know, things happen,
we grow, we change, and sometimes that means friendships change too.
And there are people I think on fondly, but perhaps
because of distance, we're not friends anymore. Maybe they started
(39:08):
a family, and because I don't have a family, it's
harder for us to relate, or it's harder to find time.
Any of those things could be reasons while we are
no longer friends. And yeah, just your interests and commonalities
have shifted. And of course there's also possibility that that
your difference in beliefs that changes friendships. Perhaps is politics.
(39:29):
And for me, definitely my friends from my hometown, I
don't talk to them as much. Some of us stopped
talking altogether because of their reactions to Black Lives Matter,
and that made me go, no, that that's a deal
breaker for me. If you can't see how this is racist, sorry,
that is it is what it is as well as
the fact that I was super religious growing up. I'm
(39:51):
no longer religious, and that changed a lot of friendships
from me from college and high school, which again super
religious to not and those people who are super religious
still doesn't mesh too well in the end. Yeah. Yeah,
And that is one of those things of growing friendships
and changing friendships because I too came from a very
(40:12):
small conservative town and sometimes because I was liberal back
then and most people are conservative, and I'm getting fights.
It's like my seventh grade with my friends about the
rock Wars, but I didn't have like too many like
minded friends to choose from. But some of my friends
who didn't think that way then I've changed, which when
(40:36):
they got out of the small town and and things
like that. So yeah, for sure, And that's something I've
always struggled with where I'm just so determined. But we
were such good friends. We have to stay good friends.
But sometimes, yeah, it's just you change and they change
and things. Life changes. Life changes. It does. That's not
to say I do think you can make things work
(40:57):
if there's like an equal amount of interest in time.
But yeah, however, what if you want to break up
of the friends how do you do that. You can
limit time. Sometimes ending a friendship is not necessary. Maybe
it's all about limiting the amount of time or even
specific situations, maybe only in group settings or maybe one
on one setting. Boundaries are always a beautiful thing. Yeah.
(41:21):
Definitely had a friend of mine who I didn't get
along with a person and the way they explained their friendship,
not that they had to explain the friendship, but because
I wasn't the only one who was like, I can't
be around this person. They are too much of this,
this and this, and I'm going to go off. I
think I've said that I have I have a short tepper.
But they were like, yeah, they're one of those friends
(41:42):
that they're better one on one. They're really sweet and
very attentive. They get around a group of people and
they don't know how to pull back and just our
vibrant personality. And I'm like, okay, okay, yeah you have
that one on one setting. I'm good. Which is not nice,
but whatever, but yeah. Also, we talked a little bit
(42:03):
before about the fading the ghost thing. It's a slow
walking away from a relationship. And I'd say this metaphorically obviously,
and it maybe the best solution possible, especially when we're
talking about abusive or toxic relationships where you feel like
it's just being combative trying to have a conversation with it.
So whether it's you know, less texting, a little more time,
(42:25):
not seeing them as much as you used to, or altogether,
you know, not answering the call immediately kind of situation,
not confiding in them so much, that might be a
solution for you if you really feel like that's the
only solution. Then again, let's say it is a really
deep and personal relationship, but there's something that has happened
that you feel like this is not gonna work a
(42:46):
face to face conversation. It could work. Just be honest
and open and also be willing to admit yourself when
you haven't been the best friend as well, and so
that could be a solution. I will say I know
many people as of late sending emails, and I've actually
had an email they weren't necessarily trying to break the well,
(43:07):
it did sound like a breakup letter. It did sound
like a break up letter. Actually, it's happened to me twice.
Oh my goshuld remember this. So it's happened to me twice, man,
I must be a bad friend. The first time was
because I was super religious and pompous and over the top,
and when they corrected me, I was like, you're correct,
I'm so sorry, and we were fine after that. That
opened up a whole other conversation. Another one was because
(43:29):
they decided that because they were married now that they
wanted to start a family and being around single friends
wasn't good for them. Right, they broke up with me
and know, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to laugh at
your I'm a bad friend. I just I just remembered why,
and remembering those, I'm like, wow. And of course, to
(43:52):
be fair, it wasn't a bad thing to me, And
I was like, yeah, okay, are Yeah. We were talking
about those recently, So I guess I have a combo.
I have a combo example, because I have an email
fade out situation that just happened, which this person was
one of my best friends. We've known each other since
(44:13):
we were four years old. We've traveled together, um, we
went to college together, we were roommates for a while,
and she moved out of the country. She there are
also issues around uh she really didn't like other women,
which didn't sit well with me because I was like,
what about me? Though, I don't know how I feel
(44:34):
about this, and then yeah, yeah, there there's some issues,
but but I wanted to keep the friendship going, and
so we had like an email thing that slowly dropped
pretty much like twice a year. We did go on
to journeys abroad during that time, but this was the
first year. She sent me an email last year and
was like, oh my gosh, pandemic, how are you going
in the US, and what's been going on with you?
(44:55):
I'm so sorry I haven't been in contact. I'm really
bad about it. I center this whole thing and I
was like, this is what's going on with me? How
are you? Don't worry about, you know, being a bad contact.
I've just got here from you and I've never heard
from Ergian. And this is her first birthday where I
didn't send the like happy birthday thing because I guess
we're done right. It's weird too, that situation is weird.
(45:16):
I wonder if anyone else can relate to this, where
we would have a lot of discussions where she would
like say, this is my problems with you, and I'm
someone who tries to be really self aware, especially like
as I've gotten older. It wasn't in high school or whatever,
but like as I've gotten older, sometimes she would say
things where I'm like, am I just being really up
(45:38):
to because that doesn't sound like how I've interpreted these
situations at all. It's just odd. Yeah, if someone is
so quick and constantly trying to tell you you're bad,
that would be toxic. That's the put down thing. She
was definitely a friend where like I was very, very
worried all the time that whatever I said or did
(46:00):
our friendship was over and that was right, that was
the end. But we do have some wonderful time together
and it does make me sad right there there. Definitely is.
I think that's the part of the problem. Is when
you remember the good times and it's been long enough
that you forgot the bad times, you're like, oh, but
it's nice to have those memories. And I've always been
(46:21):
that type of person who would say that I love
meeting people, even though I'm an introvert, because they change
your perspective somehow, and you find something new about yourself
in that relationship, and hopefully it's a good thing. And
even if it's a bad thing, it's still a lesson
to learn at the very least. And then as I'm
getting into forty, yeah, I only have time for essential friendship,
(46:43):
meaning people who I can feed into and they can
feed into me and we can come out together as
better people. Like it's just when you get to a
certain age, it's harder to make friends. A B. I've
become more set in my ways as I get older,
and it's harder for me to change personality to fit
You don't get me wrong. Reading a room and being
(47:04):
able to at least understand and be compassionate and all
of that for sure. But at the same time, I'm
not going to be giddy, happy, sweet, go lucky girl.
That's just not me right, And I no longer have
tie right or the middle capacity to try to change
my personality to fit into this. I mean, I feel
(47:25):
like I struggled enough just without work and try to
be professional. I don't know that, you know, like professional
is hard for me? Yeah? Yeah, And I think that's
something we all kind of learn and go through. Is essentially,
what is this friendship giving me? Is it worth the
(47:46):
time and energy? And I know back when i UM
first started and we were this stuff I've never told
you At the YouTube channel that was really active. That
was one of the things we heard the most from
young listeners especially was how do I I'm in a
toxic friendship? What do I do? UM? So I know
that this is something we all have dealt with and
(48:08):
seeing right, So I hope that this helps in some way. Yes,
And the good news is there are people out there
who can connect. And there was a survey that said
that one inton people don't actually have close friends. That
made me sad because I definitely could tell you immediately
the four people that I could call if I was
(48:29):
in an emergency state, and it makes me sad to
think that someone might go without that because for sure,
as a person who don't feel close to my family
didn't have a family at one point in time, my
friends are my family. So I can't imagine what it
would be like not to have people close to me
that I could lean on and know that will be
(48:49):
there for the times that I can't be there for
myself or that I can't see the reason to keep going,
because I've had many of those times. But having friends
to truly be there to hold my and in the
darkest moments. That's been a lifesaver, literally a lifesaver for me. Yes,
I totally agree. That's very, very, very powerful, and I
(49:11):
wish that everyone had it because I don't. I think
it does make you good. Friendships help you make you better,
because I have to you and Samantha knows. I've been
on a fan fiction binge. I just read a fan
fiction where one of the characters was about to die
and realized like literally no one would come to save
(49:33):
him because he's a terrible person and some friends changed
his ways once he survived. That sounds like a scrooge.
I'm very very much Yes, yes, don't be a scrooge everyone,
And if you need friends and you've been listening to
us and count as as friends, please know we are
(49:55):
your friends. Yes, yes, we really do appreciate the support
from all you. That is a true statement. And if
you would like to contact us, you can our emails
Stuff Media, mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com.
You can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never
Told You, are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks
it's always to our super producer Christina, who is also
a friend. Yes, and thanks to you for listening stuff
(50:16):
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Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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