May 17, 2019 • 27 mins
Who are incels, and how did they go from people searching for connection and support online to a group largely composed of male supremacists calling for and sometimes committing real-life acts of violence against women? Anney and Samantha break it down.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, this is Annie. Hey this is Amantha, and welcome
to Stuff. I never told your production of I Heart
Radio as how stuff works. Okay, so this episode is
about in Cells. Correct. It's been a long time coming.
(00:26):
Um and I will admit him a little nervous to
talk about it. Um. And before we get into it,
trigger warning for violence, sexual assault, and rape. So let's
just both take a collective breath. Yes, because it is
a deep and dark subject. Yeah. Um, but it's something
(00:50):
that we've been we have been meaning to talk about
it for a while. So, um, let's start with the basics.
What is it? What in Cells is a a largely
online community of over ten thousand, mostly young men and
boys who spew hatred towards women, blaming them for the
absence of sex in their lives. Um. And yeah, mostly
(01:13):
that's what goes on. But the other things, other things. Um.
Their members live in the US and in Europe and
on average about or whites, and they have called for
things like acid attacks and mass rapes, and their ideology,
which is called the black Pill, essentially means that they
(01:33):
have rejected women's sexual liberation and realized that that in
their minds, women are shallow and cruel because they reject
there being rejected, they're being shallow and cruel. Right. It's
derived from the red pill, which is a name taken
from the scene in the Matrix or Morpheus offers Neo
a blue pill to essentially stay asleep, stay stay what
is it? Ignorance is bliss um or the red pill
(01:56):
to wake up to reality? Right, meaning in this case
reality the realization that women want high status dudes. Black
Pill followers think their success in the sexual dating relationship
realm hinges entirely on their looks. What this leads to
is a kind of sexual class system. So the most
attractive men are called Chad's and they make up about
(02:19):
of society of the men, yes, the population of men
right yes, and of women want a Chad according to
this ideology, and a Chad only so that no nobody
else they will only accept a Chad. And they have
racialized names for Chad too, So there's Tyrone for a
black man, Shang for an East Asian man, for an
(02:40):
Arab man, and Chad Preach for an Indian man. And
the most attractive women Stacy's, will only have sex with Chads.
So our Stacy's of the women okay, because that seems
really odd, Like I'm like, wow, they they really have
this very high standard or low standard was beautiful women.
(03:01):
Don't get me wrong, I think all the women are beautiful,
but I'm not angry at them. Well yeah, and what
women in the lowest twenty percent range when it comes
to attractiveness in this whole ideology will have sex with
men who are more towards the middle when it comes
to their attractiveness, and these men are called beta's, cuks
or normise and below these men at the bottom our
(03:25):
end cells. And the slang term fimoids or slang for
that slang floids is used for women. Also, just the
side note, makeup is seen as kind of a fraud
and if you wear like short shorts and don't like
being groped, then you deserve death on an exaggeration. So
so this is the same guys I would think are
(03:46):
the pickup artists. Yes, the whole idea of you deserve
these and if you they don't want you, then they
are bad people who are are bitches. Yeah yeah, well
it's like a grand scheme of like manipulating women right
based glee into not rejecting you. So in cults are
kind of like low self esteem guys. Am'm about to
(04:06):
get I'm about to get cut. Uh. It reminds me
I used to for some reason. Um, I know I've
told this story on this show before, but for a while,
when I would turn people down, turn men down at
like bars and clubs, they would always say, if I
was Brad Pitt, you wouldn't turn me down. And I
thought it was weird that Brad Pitt was the name.
(04:27):
Really always Brad Pitt, Chad obviously bad Chad. Um. Yeah,
anytime I've ever rejected a man, which was not often,
I didn't get I don't get hit on typically that often,
but it's usually like you can't make friends, you can't
just be nice, but you know, like the whole you know,
I'm trying. Oh now I'm mad at you, which would
be along those lines, I would think. And if it
(04:50):
wasn't clear from the types of Chad's, the various racialized
types of Chad names that there is a lot of racism, yeah,
and Semiticism surprised going on in these forms as well,
Asian women are frequently called noodle horrors. Yeah. Some label
feminism as a Jewish plot designed to dismantle the Western world.
(05:12):
So powerful feminism Um, South Asian in cells, but it's
not working. South Asian in cells call themselves curry cells.
They called themselves cury cells. Interesting research shows that over
fifty of all users have used overtly misogynistic language in
(05:35):
their post. One of the most frequent posters believes feminism
is a plot to only date top tier men. I mean,
I mean is that? I mean? Yeah? No, okay. Another
top poster was behind a thread called why is every
single woman a Total Bitch? That ended with a call
(05:59):
for all single women over nineteen to be ground up
in an industrial which chipper, Um, someone's been watching Fargo
a little too much. Yeah, you think that's what it is.
You know, that's the one reference I get. Okay, okay.
And for most of us who have heard of in cells,
it's probably been through some of these violent acts that
have happened in the past couple of years. And I'm
(06:19):
going to try to avoid seeing any of these people's names,
but here you go. In Santa Barbara, a man who
identified as an in cell killed nine and injured fourteen,
and prior to his act of violence, he recorded videos
blaming women who didn't want to date him. He also
wrote a one hundred and forty one page manifesto and
(06:41):
he wanted to start a quote war on women for
depriving him of sex, and this inspired the hashtag yess
all women right, um. And it also inspired another killer
in Florida who similarly released videos detailing his hatred of
women for killing two women at a yoga facility, and
some in the in cel community labeled him Saint Yoga Cell.
(07:01):
And it inspired another man to kill nine people in
leaving a manifesto blaming women for his virginity and praising
the killer killers. He's seen as a saint the world
in that world for for not for everybody, but for
a lot of people. And they used his name for
saying like you should go and do what he did. Um.
(07:23):
In a self described in cell man in Canada drove
a van onto a sidewalk and killed ten people and
injured fourteen. And yeah, the community largely praised him and
called for more acts of murder. Someone wrote he would
have a celebratory beer every time. It turned out a
victim was a woman aged eighteen to thirty five. That
(07:43):
is very specific. Um. And if we set back a
bit to a man by the name of Marc Lepine
went on to inspire the user name of a modern
day in cell, but with Satan Front. He went into
a university classroom in Montreal, demanded the men leave the room,
and killed the nine women who were left, and then
went on to kill five more women. In the letter
(08:06):
found after he killed himself, he wrote he was fighting
feminism and this is the worst mass shooting in Canada's history.
This would be one of the examples of whye feminism
is important. Yes, it would be and it is. Um.
People who study in cells say that while these are
terrible acts, we shouldn't forget about the more common everyday
violence that in cell community normalizes and commits as well,
(08:28):
like sexual harassment, yelling at women, and even targeting ovarian
and cervical cancer research funds. Then there's other things users
post about, like injecting seamen into chocolate bars and giving
them to women. Um, somebody said he did that because
he thought he had a chance with this woman, but
it turned out she had a boyfriend because she's a
total monster. Or sexually assaulting women in public, especially on
(08:51):
public transit. Right, and then we you and I talked
about in the previous episodes about semicide, and a lot
of like some of the deaths that happened are when
men get rejected and feel like they have right to
harm or kill that person and or viol that person
some way in some form. And this will be lack
exactly in those lines. And some people who who study
this say that a lot of this these posts are
(09:13):
just talk because the Internet is a place where you
can kind of be your worst self. Um, But even so,
it is a community that celebrates violence against women, Like
even if it is just talk, it's talk, right, And
studies have shown and members anecdotally admit that it shapes
their worldview and makes them angrier and more prone to
(09:35):
and accepting of violence or even harassment. And we've seen
that it's kind of similar to isis like you get
radic correct the more mentality in itself. That's exactly what occurring.
Is they kind of go into their own little world
and then encourage each other's stupidity and anger and hate. Right.
But there is a subset of about one hundred men
that actively promote other members to perpetrate sexual violence against women,
(09:59):
and a lot of them are associated with the site
run by a man who tried to kill President George W.
Bush in two thousand and eight, claims he raped his
ex wife and Branford Congress in twenty eighteen, Like, did
he actually get his name on the ballot? I think
so he dropped out, though I would hope so. He
doesn't call himself an in cell, but he's a big
(10:19):
name in the in cell community, and he and his
followers pushed the rape pill. And here's the definition for
that um, the understanding that for civilization to survive, fin
mourines need to be treated as subhuman objects whose purpose
is to obey and bear the children of supreme gentlemen,
such as ourselves supreme gentleman. Yeah, one of their sites,
(10:41):
with five hundred members, is called Raping Girls is Fun.
They have tips for how to commit the most effective rapes,
and as a whole, these sites and the people that
peruse them believe that women should not have and should
never have had any rights. So, uh, that that's kind
(11:01):
of what's going on there when we have some more
like present day stuff, but we also have some history
about how this in seals um got started. But first
we're gonna pause for a quick break for word from
our sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So for
(11:29):
the history is kind of surprising and interesting, and I
bet a lot of you've heard of it because it
is surprising and interesting. UM. It goes back to an
online community that was founded in the nineteen nineties and
it was a community of shy, lonely people looking for
other shy, lonely people. Eventually, this loneliness helped gather an
online community, and they came up with the phrase in
(11:52):
voluntary celibacy to describe their experience, which was later shortened too.
I think it was later short too in there was
a V in there, but then it was short and
in cell. Yes. And one of the first members, who
now goes by the handle Reformed and Sell, described with
the community as a quote kind of social justice warrior
esque place UM Men who didn't know how to talk
(12:14):
to women would ask questions and female members would answer them.
And he's sort of a noted historian of the movement
and how it devolved into what it is today, like
he's tried to record what what happened. UM. And the
founder was a queer progressive woman from Canada named Alana.
Alana thought dating was confusing and scary, and she wasn't
(12:36):
even quite sure of her own sexuality, and as a
college student, she felt she was bisexual and started a
serious relationship with a woman. But she wanted to help
others like her who struggled with relationships UM, who wanted
to have one, but for one reason or another couldn't um.
And to that end, she started the Alana's Involuntary Celibacy
Project website. It didn't take her too long to realize
(12:57):
that she wasn't entirely sure to help the people populating
the forums, and she was in a relationship and kind
of you know, got busy, and in the early two
thousand's she left the community. Now. She later went on
to start a new project called Love Not Anger, to
kind of try to retake, try to start. The intend
wasn't as where it is today. Such a turnaround, I
(13:19):
guess that happens often. Well, then, this is when the
community divided into two forms, the in cel Support and
Love Shy. Insul Support was inclusive and closer to what
the founder intended moderator's band misogynistic post but love Shy,
on the other hand, did not really moderate the post
and posters blamed women for the lack of sex, and
one of the moderators lauded mass killings and killers and
(13:41):
encourage violence. And it was almost all men. Since it
was online, it wasn't isolated either. It crossed over with
very angry dark Internet places like four Chan, a sightwood
in cel like ideas section called our nine k. A
lot of insults became insults through to four Chan. Then
they as the menosphere, which refers to a collection of
(14:02):
sites almost entirely powered by men, like Men's Right sites.
This vin diagram of sites blaming women fostered a larger community,
and one that took the name in cel and made
it their own and also claimed to have coined it
in the first place. After the killer in California was
reported to be an in cell, the original community relinquished
the term as toxic, but for the newer angry or
(14:23):
violent community, the killer was a hero, so the forums
posted photoshop pictures of his face as Christian images and
his initials were mostly positive and used to condone acts
of violence, and others blame him for the negative reputations
of itself. Yeah, some some in the community. I think
that that this is what gave them. I mean, it
(14:45):
did a negative reputation, and they don't um lauded him
like the others do and UM read it. Recently banned
the in cel subreddit, but a new one opened in
its place, with sixteen nine members, and it also spawned
our our insult heres, which makes fun of the things
posted by insults. I have a friend who reads that religiously,
and even that upsets me, Like it's funny, but I'm like, still,
(15:09):
how how do you even delve into that? Yeah? Yeah, um,
we have a little bit more to talk about, but
first we're gonna pause for one more quick break for
a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored.
(15:35):
So one of the things that I mean in cells
is obviously to the instagree, it's taking something to the instagree,
but we can. I mean, it does showcase like how
in our society there is this idea of male entitlements
and female obligation which is still hard to shake. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
(15:57):
and in this thought structure women oh in sex and
the world is systemically messed up when men who want
it are not getting it. And you can see this everywhere.
But here's an example from a New York Times piece
written by a social conservative. Quote are widespread isolation and
unhappiness and sterility might be dealt with by reviving or
(16:18):
adapting older ideas about the virtues of monogamy and chastity
and permanence and the special respect owed to the celibate.
And I know that there was even that discussion of
like rationing sex, like how can we make sure everyone
who haunts sex gets it? But at the same time,
and seals look down on horrors sex worker, right, And
(16:40):
I know there's this prejudice against lesbians and sexuals in
general anyway, and that they are not doing, but it's
also a slab in their face that they can get
something without them. But then yeah, yeah, um. And and
think of how we encourage women to feel when they
want someone and can't get them, that it's their fault,
right right, that they're undesirable, they are to blame. Compare
(17:05):
that to this train of thinking like I'm just undesirable,
but the woman the other party, is to blame and
the world is to blame. And you owe me this.
Why wouldn't you give me this because this is your
purpose in life, you know. And I kind of think
about what the whole celibacy thing and the um monogamy
and chastity, all of these ideas, the whole sex strike
(17:25):
that's happening right now. I know I talked about it
earlier with the feminism episode, but Elissa Milano's whole thing,
and I'm thinking, wow, I know it's not completely related,
but this is kind of what we're having this conversation
about how this takes the whole idea, a traditional idea
that women owe men sex and so by being a
(17:46):
strike is something as if it's their job or their obligations,
so that they are putting putting a strike on it.
And I know that's one of the big controparties, like, wait,
you're taking this negative tone on what sex is and
who controls sexeper right, And this is the whole converse
Asian in that it's like even though I'm sure in
theory there's a lot of ways it could be helpful,
and and you and I talked about some of the
(18:06):
times that it has been used. You were talking about
in Chicago, um when it was used for gaining activity
or men who are involved in gain and the women
the correct and then also way back when when it
was thought of as their obligation, women's obligation to have
sex and both children and so therefore being on a
strike kind of takes that away. Um, but now it's
(18:29):
kind of we're changing that idea, we're changing what that
looks like, what sex is, and and who controls it
and who can ask for and who can say no
to that? Um. And it is a really odd idea
of what this is. And then this kind of it
does kind of feel like it again, I don't really
know too much about it. I'm more confused than anything else.
It does, even like this spies into this whole idea
(18:50):
that a woman's purpose is to have sex with men,
you know what I mean? Yeah, And I know I
read that quote a couple of episodes ago about how
feeling like your soldier called into ward to help men
with their blue balls, right, um? And I yeah, I
felt that. And I've said, like I I'm someone who
(19:12):
doesn't really field sexual attraction, and I felt guilty about
it because I was like, oh, this guy is so
nice to me. I mean that. But again, you're right
with all of this, and cells uh, the idea that
you are failing and or you are insulting a man
(19:32):
by saying you don't want to be with him or
anyone is unnatural. Yeah, right, that's the mentality of this
UM that you are supposed to not necessarily want it,
but at least give it. It's not it's not about
your pleasure. So I guess again, I'm kind of like,
all right, this is so hand in hand with what
are we actually saying about sex and women once again?
(19:55):
And who owes what and who has control of what?
And in cells are largely viewed as a backlash too
progressiveness and feminism. Throughout our histories, laws have classified women's
bodies as the property of men, so the rape of
a man's wife was seen as a crime against the
man because the woman's body was not her own. And
(20:19):
we were still still trying to get away from that
train of thinking. And I think it just recently happened.
I can't forgot what state it was that they just
turned over. The law that women couldn't be raped by
her husband was when the United States finally in every
state right it was outlawed, And that is very very recent.
(20:41):
It's like going back to the way things used to
be and technology UM giving space for people to who
feel this way to connect and too, yeah, cheer each
other on UM. Apparently, Like yeah, in two eight states
(21:03):
still has semi laws that allow for I have to
be raped. Wow, what a wonderful world we live in.
Oh So Columbus, Ohio is the one that closed the
loophole in May four, nineteen for the marital right law.
So yeah, I mean it's still a thing and the
(21:26):
idea that we can't go past the whole women are properties,
sex as an obligation, Sex is a job, Sex is
a part of your duties in marriage. I mean you
still see that in show Who's in talking about approcreation
and and there's still some shame for a lot of
(21:46):
people to not be able to birth their own child,
you know, and all of those laid down to you're
you're worth us a woman? Sure. Yeah. On my one
of my co workers the other day because because we
do this show like any Time, which is kind of
a fun sad thing, but any Time like a bad
(22:07):
something with feminism or women have starting to get that
now too. But I like you and I'm like, yeah,
that's bad. But one of our co workers sent me
a song. I had never heard of it, but it
was Dave Matthews song called Daughters. It's like be nice
to your daughters because they have become mothers or something.
(22:29):
I think that's an old, old, so old yeah, but
he was. It was just funny because he was like,
can we not view women as anything other than like
walking baby? That's what we're created for. And God, God
help the women who actually can't have children. I mean,
that's kind of the whole societal ideas that in the
(22:49):
internal struggle that you felt somehow because you feel like
that's what you're supposed to do and at the same
time that's what you want to do, and that's fine,
and that's heartbreaking in itself, but it is a whole
big thing of like, am I lesser person because I
don't or I can't And of course you're not. Of
course they're not. And it's just a heartbreaking that situation,
that stuff like this, which just goes into a volatile
(23:12):
state where death has to happen as a result of
someone's insecurity. You know, that's just and the fact that
we are hearing more and more of those, um the
whole idea that a young child can be raped for
the sins of someone else in the family, you know,
I know that's happened a few times in the world,
and it's just heartbreaking that that's even a thing. Or
(23:32):
the student who was killed because she reported sexual assault
over their professor. You know, it's just why is this
the thing that they're so undervalue? Women are undervalued? And
it's still conversation that we have to constantly have because
once again, as you said, the not not necessarily the
finality of death is not the only thing we have
to talk about here, but acid attacks, sort of continued harassment,
(23:55):
continues stalking. That you owe them something, um, is absurd,
even um having our listeners who talk about the fact
that they could deal with this at the workplace, constantly
being badgered. That's a part of the same thing, that
that you owe them something because you exist in the
world or in that environment, or you're nice to them.
And that's the other part is why we just we
(24:17):
can't be nice sometimes yeah. Yeah, and then and then
people get piss up about that. Yeah um yeah. I mean,
I think we were having this conversation about and cells
is really important in it. It's so kind of frightening,
but I I do think that it says a lot
(24:39):
about our views on women in general that this can
be allowed to exist, that it does exist, and even
when you try to shut it down and he still
keeps popping back up. Yeah yeah, Um, so that's that's
the end of this episode. I mean, it's something that
we have to look at, and I think we decided
(25:01):
to put this under like a feminism episode arc because
this is why it is important once again, and when
I try to talk to people who are so scared
of that word, we'll talk about these are what we're
really looking at. Its safety and equality. Safety is a
big factor and trying to be equal, being able to
once again walk out in the street by yourself without
(25:23):
being threatened, or being in a female in mainly like
male predominant area and be treated the same. I mean,
I told you the story a while ago about me
going into a conference that we're mainly made up of
males and feeling so insecure because the immediate looks in
the immediate like judgments that were happening, and I was
automatically focused on because I was a woman and then
(25:48):
in the sea of men and that's absurd. Yeah yeah, so, um,
it's been on our I think I started this outline
a year ago and finally finally did it. Um, And
we would love to hear from you listeners, and such
a strange transition, but we always want to hear from
(26:12):
the listen. We do, we do, we do UM. You
can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at i
heeart media dot com. That is a new email, but
if you send the older email, it'll it'll come our way.
You can also find us on Instagram at stuff I've
Never Told You and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Andrew,
(26:32):
thanks to you for listening. Thank you, Stuff I've Never
Told You the production of I Heart Radios how Stuff Works.
For more podcasts from I Heeart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast wherever you listen to your
favorite show.
Hey, this is Annie. Hey this is Amantha, and welcome
to Stuff. I never told your production of I Heart
Radio as how stuff works. Okay, so this episode is
about in Cells. Correct. It's been a long time coming.
(00:26):
Um and I will admit him a little nervous to
talk about it. Um. And before we get into it,
trigger warning for violence, sexual assault, and rape. So let's
just both take a collective breath. Yes, because it is
a deep and dark subject. Yeah. Um, but it's something
(00:50):
that we've been we have been meaning to talk about
it for a while. So, um, let's start with the basics.
What is it? What in Cells is a a largely
online community of over ten thousand, mostly young men and
boys who spew hatred towards women, blaming them for the
absence of sex in their lives. Um. And yeah, mostly
(01:13):
that's what goes on. But the other things, other things. Um.
Their members live in the US and in Europe and
on average about or whites, and they have called for
things like acid attacks and mass rapes, and their ideology,
which is called the black Pill, essentially means that they
(01:33):
have rejected women's sexual liberation and realized that that in
their minds, women are shallow and cruel because they reject
there being rejected, they're being shallow and cruel. Right. It's
derived from the red pill, which is a name taken
from the scene in the Matrix or Morpheus offers Neo
a blue pill to essentially stay asleep, stay stay what
is it? Ignorance is bliss um or the red pill
(01:56):
to wake up to reality? Right, meaning in this case
reality the realization that women want high status dudes. Black
Pill followers think their success in the sexual dating relationship
realm hinges entirely on their looks. What this leads to
is a kind of sexual class system. So the most
attractive men are called Chad's and they make up about
(02:19):
of society of the men, yes, the population of men
right yes, and of women want a Chad according to
this ideology, and a Chad only so that no nobody
else they will only accept a Chad. And they have
racialized names for Chad too, So there's Tyrone for a
black man, Shang for an East Asian man, for an
(02:40):
Arab man, and Chad Preach for an Indian man. And
the most attractive women Stacy's, will only have sex with Chads.
So our Stacy's of the women okay, because that seems
really odd, Like I'm like, wow, they they really have
this very high standard or low standard was beautiful women.
(03:01):
Don't get me wrong, I think all the women are beautiful,
but I'm not angry at them. Well yeah, and what
women in the lowest twenty percent range when it comes
to attractiveness in this whole ideology will have sex with
men who are more towards the middle when it comes
to their attractiveness, and these men are called beta's, cuks
or normise and below these men at the bottom our
(03:25):
end cells. And the slang term fimoids or slang for
that slang floids is used for women. Also, just the
side note, makeup is seen as kind of a fraud
and if you wear like short shorts and don't like
being groped, then you deserve death on an exaggeration. So
so this is the same guys I would think are
(03:46):
the pickup artists. Yes, the whole idea of you deserve
these and if you they don't want you, then they
are bad people who are are bitches. Yeah yeah, well
it's like a grand scheme of like manipulating women right
based glee into not rejecting you. So in cults are
kind of like low self esteem guys. Am'm about to
(04:06):
get I'm about to get cut. Uh. It reminds me
I used to for some reason. Um, I know I've
told this story on this show before, but for a while,
when I would turn people down, turn men down at
like bars and clubs, they would always say, if I
was Brad Pitt, you wouldn't turn me down. And I
thought it was weird that Brad Pitt was the name.
(04:27):
Really always Brad Pitt, Chad obviously bad Chad. Um. Yeah,
anytime I've ever rejected a man, which was not often,
I didn't get I don't get hit on typically that often,
but it's usually like you can't make friends, you can't
just be nice, but you know, like the whole you know,
I'm trying. Oh now I'm mad at you, which would
be along those lines, I would think. And if it
(04:50):
wasn't clear from the types of Chad's, the various racialized
types of Chad names that there is a lot of racism, yeah,
and Semiticism surprised going on in these forms as well,
Asian women are frequently called noodle horrors. Yeah. Some label
feminism as a Jewish plot designed to dismantle the Western world.
(05:12):
So powerful feminism Um, South Asian in cells, but it's
not working. South Asian in cells call themselves curry cells.
They called themselves cury cells. Interesting research shows that over
fifty of all users have used overtly misogynistic language in
(05:35):
their post. One of the most frequent posters believes feminism
is a plot to only date top tier men. I mean,
I mean is that? I mean? Yeah? No, okay. Another
top poster was behind a thread called why is every
single woman a Total Bitch? That ended with a call
(05:59):
for all single women over nineteen to be ground up
in an industrial which chipper, Um, someone's been watching Fargo
a little too much. Yeah, you think that's what it is.
You know, that's the one reference I get. Okay, okay.
And for most of us who have heard of in cells,
it's probably been through some of these violent acts that
have happened in the past couple of years. And I'm
(06:19):
going to try to avoid seeing any of these people's names,
but here you go. In Santa Barbara, a man who
identified as an in cell killed nine and injured fourteen,
and prior to his act of violence, he recorded videos
blaming women who didn't want to date him. He also
wrote a one hundred and forty one page manifesto and
(06:41):
he wanted to start a quote war on women for
depriving him of sex, and this inspired the hashtag yess
all women right, um. And it also inspired another killer
in Florida who similarly released videos detailing his hatred of
women for killing two women at a yoga facility, and
some in the in cel community labeled him Saint Yoga Cell.
(07:01):
And it inspired another man to kill nine people in
leaving a manifesto blaming women for his virginity and praising
the killer killers. He's seen as a saint the world
in that world for for not for everybody, but for
a lot of people. And they used his name for
saying like you should go and do what he did. Um.
(07:23):
In a self described in cell man in Canada drove
a van onto a sidewalk and killed ten people and
injured fourteen. And yeah, the community largely praised him and
called for more acts of murder. Someone wrote he would
have a celebratory beer every time. It turned out a
victim was a woman aged eighteen to thirty five. That
(07:43):
is very specific. Um. And if we set back a
bit to a man by the name of Marc Lepine
went on to inspire the user name of a modern
day in cell, but with Satan Front. He went into
a university classroom in Montreal, demanded the men leave the room,
and killed the nine women who were left, and then
went on to kill five more women. In the letter
(08:06):
found after he killed himself, he wrote he was fighting
feminism and this is the worst mass shooting in Canada's history.
This would be one of the examples of whye feminism
is important. Yes, it would be and it is. Um.
People who study in cells say that while these are
terrible acts, we shouldn't forget about the more common everyday
violence that in cell community normalizes and commits as well,
(08:28):
like sexual harassment, yelling at women, and even targeting ovarian
and cervical cancer research funds. Then there's other things users
post about, like injecting seamen into chocolate bars and giving
them to women. Um, somebody said he did that because
he thought he had a chance with this woman, but
it turned out she had a boyfriend because she's a
total monster. Or sexually assaulting women in public, especially on
(08:51):
public transit. Right, and then we you and I talked
about in the previous episodes about semicide, and a lot
of like some of the deaths that happened are when
men get rejected and feel like they have right to
harm or kill that person and or viol that person
some way in some form. And this will be lack
exactly in those lines. And some people who who study
this say that a lot of this these posts are
(09:13):
just talk because the Internet is a place where you
can kind of be your worst self. Um, But even so,
it is a community that celebrates violence against women, Like
even if it is just talk, it's talk, right, And
studies have shown and members anecdotally admit that it shapes
their worldview and makes them angrier and more prone to
(09:35):
and accepting of violence or even harassment. And we've seen
that it's kind of similar to isis like you get
radic correct the more mentality in itself. That's exactly what occurring.
Is they kind of go into their own little world
and then encourage each other's stupidity and anger and hate. Right.
But there is a subset of about one hundred men
that actively promote other members to perpetrate sexual violence against women,
(09:59):
and a lot of them are associated with the site
run by a man who tried to kill President George W.
Bush in two thousand and eight, claims he raped his
ex wife and Branford Congress in twenty eighteen, Like, did
he actually get his name on the ballot? I think
so he dropped out, though I would hope so. He
doesn't call himself an in cell, but he's a big
(10:19):
name in the in cell community, and he and his
followers pushed the rape pill. And here's the definition for
that um, the understanding that for civilization to survive, fin
mourines need to be treated as subhuman objects whose purpose
is to obey and bear the children of supreme gentlemen,
such as ourselves supreme gentleman. Yeah, one of their sites,
(10:41):
with five hundred members, is called Raping Girls is Fun.
They have tips for how to commit the most effective rapes,
and as a whole, these sites and the people that
peruse them believe that women should not have and should
never have had any rights. So, uh, that that's kind
(11:01):
of what's going on there when we have some more
like present day stuff, but we also have some history
about how this in seals um got started. But first
we're gonna pause for a quick break for word from
our sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So for
(11:29):
the history is kind of surprising and interesting, and I
bet a lot of you've heard of it because it
is surprising and interesting. UM. It goes back to an
online community that was founded in the nineteen nineties and
it was a community of shy, lonely people looking for
other shy, lonely people. Eventually, this loneliness helped gather an
online community, and they came up with the phrase in
(11:52):
voluntary celibacy to describe their experience, which was later shortened too.
I think it was later short too in there was
a V in there, but then it was short and
in cell. Yes. And one of the first members, who
now goes by the handle Reformed and Sell, described with
the community as a quote kind of social justice warrior
esque place UM Men who didn't know how to talk
(12:14):
to women would ask questions and female members would answer them.
And he's sort of a noted historian of the movement
and how it devolved into what it is today, like
he's tried to record what what happened. UM. And the
founder was a queer progressive woman from Canada named Alana.
Alana thought dating was confusing and scary, and she wasn't
(12:36):
even quite sure of her own sexuality, and as a
college student, she felt she was bisexual and started a
serious relationship with a woman. But she wanted to help
others like her who struggled with relationships UM, who wanted
to have one, but for one reason or another couldn't um.
And to that end, she started the Alana's Involuntary Celibacy
Project website. It didn't take her too long to realize
(12:57):
that she wasn't entirely sure to help the people populating
the forums, and she was in a relationship and kind
of you know, got busy, and in the early two
thousand's she left the community. Now. She later went on
to start a new project called Love Not Anger, to
kind of try to retake, try to start. The intend
wasn't as where it is today. Such a turnaround, I
(13:19):
guess that happens often. Well, then, this is when the
community divided into two forms, the in cel Support and
Love Shy. Insul Support was inclusive and closer to what
the founder intended moderator's band misogynistic post but love Shy,
on the other hand, did not really moderate the post
and posters blamed women for the lack of sex, and
one of the moderators lauded mass killings and killers and
(13:41):
encourage violence. And it was almost all men. Since it
was online, it wasn't isolated either. It crossed over with
very angry dark Internet places like four Chan, a sightwood
in cel like ideas section called our nine k. A
lot of insults became insults through to four Chan. Then
they as the menosphere, which refers to a collection of
(14:02):
sites almost entirely powered by men, like Men's Right sites.
This vin diagram of sites blaming women fostered a larger community,
and one that took the name in cel and made
it their own and also claimed to have coined it
in the first place. After the killer in California was
reported to be an in cell, the original community relinquished
the term as toxic, but for the newer angry or
(14:23):
violent community, the killer was a hero, so the forums
posted photoshop pictures of his face as Christian images and
his initials were mostly positive and used to condone acts
of violence, and others blame him for the negative reputations
of itself. Yeah, some some in the community. I think
that that this is what gave them. I mean, it
(14:45):
did a negative reputation, and they don't um lauded him
like the others do and UM read it. Recently banned
the in cel subreddit, but a new one opened in
its place, with sixteen nine members, and it also spawned
our our insult heres, which makes fun of the things
posted by insults. I have a friend who reads that religiously,
and even that upsets me, Like it's funny, but I'm like, still,
(15:09):
how how do you even delve into that? Yeah? Yeah, um,
we have a little bit more to talk about, but
first we're gonna pause for one more quick break for
a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored.
(15:35):
So one of the things that I mean in cells
is obviously to the instagree, it's taking something to the instagree,
but we can. I mean, it does showcase like how
in our society there is this idea of male entitlements
and female obligation which is still hard to shake. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
(15:57):
and in this thought structure women oh in sex and
the world is systemically messed up when men who want
it are not getting it. And you can see this everywhere.
But here's an example from a New York Times piece
written by a social conservative. Quote are widespread isolation and
unhappiness and sterility might be dealt with by reviving or
(16:18):
adapting older ideas about the virtues of monogamy and chastity
and permanence and the special respect owed to the celibate.
And I know that there was even that discussion of
like rationing sex, like how can we make sure everyone
who haunts sex gets it? But at the same time,
and seals look down on horrors sex worker, right, And
(16:40):
I know there's this prejudice against lesbians and sexuals in
general anyway, and that they are not doing, but it's
also a slab in their face that they can get
something without them. But then yeah, yeah, um. And and
think of how we encourage women to feel when they
want someone and can't get them, that it's their fault,
right right, that they're undesirable, they are to blame. Compare
(17:05):
that to this train of thinking like I'm just undesirable,
but the woman the other party, is to blame and
the world is to blame. And you owe me this.
Why wouldn't you give me this because this is your
purpose in life, you know. And I kind of think
about what the whole celibacy thing and the um monogamy
and chastity, all of these ideas, the whole sex strike
(17:25):
that's happening right now. I know I talked about it
earlier with the feminism episode, but Elissa Milano's whole thing,
and I'm thinking, wow, I know it's not completely related,
but this is kind of what we're having this conversation
about how this takes the whole idea, a traditional idea
that women owe men sex and so by being a
(17:46):
strike is something as if it's their job or their obligations,
so that they are putting putting a strike on it.
And I know that's one of the big controparties, like, wait,
you're taking this negative tone on what sex is and
who controls sexeper right, And this is the whole converse
Asian in that it's like even though I'm sure in
theory there's a lot of ways it could be helpful,
and and you and I talked about some of the
(18:06):
times that it has been used. You were talking about
in Chicago, um when it was used for gaining activity
or men who are involved in gain and the women
the correct and then also way back when when it
was thought of as their obligation, women's obligation to have
sex and both children and so therefore being on a
strike kind of takes that away. Um, but now it's
(18:29):
kind of we're changing that idea, we're changing what that
looks like, what sex is, and and who controls it
and who can ask for and who can say no
to that? Um. And it is a really odd idea
of what this is. And then this kind of it
does kind of feel like it again, I don't really
know too much about it. I'm more confused than anything else.
It does, even like this spies into this whole idea
(18:50):
that a woman's purpose is to have sex with men,
you know what I mean? Yeah, And I know I
read that quote a couple of episodes ago about how
feeling like your soldier called into ward to help men
with their blue balls, right, um? And I yeah, I
felt that. And I've said, like I I'm someone who
(19:12):
doesn't really field sexual attraction, and I felt guilty about
it because I was like, oh, this guy is so
nice to me. I mean that. But again, you're right
with all of this, and cells uh, the idea that
you are failing and or you are insulting a man
(19:32):
by saying you don't want to be with him or
anyone is unnatural. Yeah, right, that's the mentality of this
UM that you are supposed to not necessarily want it,
but at least give it. It's not it's not about
your pleasure. So I guess again, I'm kind of like,
all right, this is so hand in hand with what
are we actually saying about sex and women once again?
(19:55):
And who owes what and who has control of what?
And in cells are largely viewed as a backlash too
progressiveness and feminism. Throughout our histories, laws have classified women's
bodies as the property of men, so the rape of
a man's wife was seen as a crime against the
man because the woman's body was not her own. And
(20:19):
we were still still trying to get away from that
train of thinking. And I think it just recently happened.
I can't forgot what state it was that they just
turned over. The law that women couldn't be raped by
her husband was when the United States finally in every
state right it was outlawed, And that is very very recent.
(20:41):
It's like going back to the way things used to
be and technology UM giving space for people to who
feel this way to connect and too, yeah, cheer each
other on UM. Apparently, Like yeah, in two eight states
(21:03):
still has semi laws that allow for I have to
be raped. Wow, what a wonderful world we live in.
Oh So Columbus, Ohio is the one that closed the
loophole in May four, nineteen for the marital right law.
So yeah, I mean it's still a thing and the
(21:26):
idea that we can't go past the whole women are properties,
sex as an obligation, Sex is a job, Sex is
a part of your duties in marriage. I mean you
still see that in show Who's in talking about approcreation
and and there's still some shame for a lot of
(21:46):
people to not be able to birth their own child,
you know, and all of those laid down to you're
you're worth us a woman? Sure. Yeah. On my one
of my co workers the other day because because we
do this show like any Time, which is kind of
a fun sad thing, but any Time like a bad
(22:07):
something with feminism or women have starting to get that
now too. But I like you and I'm like, yeah,
that's bad. But one of our co workers sent me
a song. I had never heard of it, but it
was Dave Matthews song called Daughters. It's like be nice
to your daughters because they have become mothers or something.
(22:29):
I think that's an old, old, so old yeah, but
he was. It was just funny because he was like,
can we not view women as anything other than like
walking baby? That's what we're created for. And God, God
help the women who actually can't have children. I mean,
that's kind of the whole societal ideas that in the
(22:49):
internal struggle that you felt somehow because you feel like
that's what you're supposed to do and at the same
time that's what you want to do, and that's fine,
and that's heartbreaking in itself, but it is a whole
big thing of like, am I lesser person because I
don't or I can't And of course you're not. Of
course they're not. And it's just a heartbreaking that situation,
that stuff like this, which just goes into a volatile
(23:12):
state where death has to happen as a result of
someone's insecurity. You know, that's just and the fact that
we are hearing more and more of those, um the
whole idea that a young child can be raped for
the sins of someone else in the family, you know,
I know that's happened a few times in the world,
and it's just heartbreaking that that's even a thing. Or
(23:32):
the student who was killed because she reported sexual assault
over their professor. You know, it's just why is this
the thing that they're so undervalue? Women are undervalued? And
it's still conversation that we have to constantly have because
once again, as you said, the not not necessarily the
finality of death is not the only thing we have
to talk about here, but acid attacks, sort of continued harassment,
(23:55):
continues stalking. That you owe them something, um, is absurd,
even um having our listeners who talk about the fact
that they could deal with this at the workplace, constantly
being badgered. That's a part of the same thing, that
that you owe them something because you exist in the
world or in that environment, or you're nice to them.
And that's the other part is why we just we
(24:17):
can't be nice sometimes yeah. Yeah, and then and then
people get piss up about that. Yeah um yeah. I mean,
I think we were having this conversation about and cells
is really important in it. It's so kind of frightening,
but I I do think that it says a lot
(24:39):
about our views on women in general that this can
be allowed to exist, that it does exist, and even
when you try to shut it down and he still
keeps popping back up. Yeah yeah, Um, so that's that's
the end of this episode. I mean, it's something that
we have to look at, and I think we decided
(25:01):
to put this under like a feminism episode arc because
this is why it is important once again, and when
I try to talk to people who are so scared
of that word, we'll talk about these are what we're
really looking at. Its safety and equality. Safety is a
big factor and trying to be equal, being able to
once again walk out in the street by yourself without
(25:23):
being threatened, or being in a female in mainly like
male predominant area and be treated the same. I mean,
I told you the story a while ago about me
going into a conference that we're mainly made up of
males and feeling so insecure because the immediate looks in
the immediate like judgments that were happening, and I was
automatically focused on because I was a woman and then
(25:48):
in the sea of men and that's absurd. Yeah yeah, so, um,
it's been on our I think I started this outline
a year ago and finally finally did it. Um, And
we would love to hear from you listeners, and such
a strange transition, but we always want to hear from
(26:12):
the listen. We do, we do, we do UM. You
can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at i
heeart media dot com. That is a new email, but
if you send the older email, it'll it'll come our way.
You can also find us on Instagram at stuff I've
Never Told You and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Andrew,
(26:32):
thanks to you for listening. Thank you, Stuff I've Never
Told You the production of I Heart Radios how Stuff Works.
For more podcasts from I Heeart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast wherever you listen to your
favorite show.
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.