December 21, 2011 • 26 mins
Do men complain more about being sick? Do women have stronger immune systems? Who takes the most sick days? Join Cristen and Caroline as they explore the facts -- and fiction -- surrounding popular opinions on gender and illness.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?
From how stup works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristin Kristen. Every winter
(00:21):
and I don't mean to sound mean to my dad,
Hi dad, but every winter my dad gets some sickness,
some regular run of the mill like sniffles, kind of
aches and pains, and he acts as if the end
is near, I know, And then he goes to his doctor,
and his doctors like go home, you're fine, hem s bright,
(00:43):
have an orange, get over it. But apparently he's not
the only one. Apparently this is a theme with his gender. Yeah.
I did not know that the term man flew existed
before we started researching this podcast, um, but apparently it's
pretty common in the UK, and it is an expression
(01:06):
that's a tongue in cheek term used to describe how
men may tend to inflate their symptoms of what is
probably just a common cold into a life threatening illness
and they want to be weighted on hand and foot
as they get better, right, And I I mean I've
(01:27):
seen this before I I used to live with dudes,
so I've seen where. You know, guys can tend to
be all weak and whiney, especially if they have a
girlfriend or someone available or a mom to to wait
on them and bring them soup and such. Yeah, if
they have a way to take advantage of it. Now,
I'm not gonna lie. Uh. Sometimes like if there's someone
around me and I'm sick and I and I know
(01:49):
that things can be done for me, I may or
may not take advantage of that. But but man flu
is supposedly this uh, this thing that that that guys do.
And uh. Dr Charles Risin, who was a clinical director
of the Mind and Body Program at Emory University School
of Medicine here in Atlanta, Georgia, says that it might
(02:12):
be because um men become more emotionally vulnerable when they
are physically sick. Yeah, they actually it's possible that they
actually experienced the physical symptoms of a cold or the
flu worse than women do. Whereas we might be more
emotionally vulnerable and be willing to talk about our problem,
(02:35):
men maybe are more vulnerable when they are ill and
then they feel like, Okay, this is my time to
be vulnerable because it's it's easier to be vulnerable when
you're sick and you feel all achy and snut sniff
ley and whatever than it is if you're like, if
your feelings are hurt, because you're like, no, I'm a man,
I'm just gonna tough it out, dude. Uh. And the
(02:56):
thing is, there is some scientific evidence to back up
at least the gender differences in UM immune systems, and
specifically that women might have stronger that's right, fellas stronger
immune systems than men. Right, it's all thanks to our
double X chromosomes. Yeah, chromosomes coming in handy. This is uh.
(03:20):
Some research that came out of Ghent University in Belgium
this past fall, and they looked at the role of
micro RNAs encoded on the X chromosome, of which women
have to UM and they think that the micro RNase
have something to do with our superior immunity. Is speaking
(03:46):
of women and gender differences, it's already been shown in
some studies that we tend to live longer UM, and
now with this evidence that we have stronger immune systems.
I just think it's interesting because we just seem to
be winning way on the contest of of of living.
I don't know. Anyway, we're better equipped to fight sepsis,
(04:07):
infection and trauma. And this is not just in female humans,
this is also in other female mammalian species, right, And
it has to do with gene silencing. Um. Since book uh,
the the X chromosome is tied to immunity and with
gene silencing. If if part of our X chromosome gets silenced,
(04:30):
to make it kind of simplistic, um, we've still got
this other one hanging out. Whereas men have an X
and a Y and so if they're uh, if their
genes tied in with immunity gets silence, then they're just
they're like, well, I got nothing. And the reason why
genes play such an important role in sickness, disease and
conversely immunity is because genes produce the proteins in our bodies,
(04:56):
which are then responsible for things like our looks, um are,
our development, um, how we function both good and bad.
So when it comes to diseases, if you have a
faulty gene, that might lead to some faulty proteins, which
might lead to then faulty protein related activity, leaving you
(05:16):
sickly and faulty and faulty. Um, Yeah, Cambridge. A study
at a Cambridge in UM said that the man flu
is not a myth and then it has a lot
to do with UM with different gender differences in immunity
and Dr Oliver Rustuff said in many cases, males tend
to be more prone to get infected or less able
(05:38):
to clear infection, and he cites the interference between male
hormones and immunity as well as risk taking behavior that
goes back to our caveman ancestors. So speaking of risky behavior,
this is the perfect time to talk about hormones because
the male tendency toward risk behavior is linked back to testosterone. Okay,
(06:01):
And in two thousand nine there was a study out
of McGill University Health Center that claimed that estrogen in
the female body could also provide UM some inflammatory response
against bacterial pathogens because it blocks the reduction of an
enzyme called cast paced twelve, which blocks the inflammatory process UM. So,
(06:27):
not only might the micro RNA in our ex chromosome
help us out in terms of living longer and fighting
trauma and infection, but then estrogen comes along gives us
a little bit more of a boose, whereas testosterone is
putting men physically in danger all the time, right, Estrogen
(06:48):
stimulates the immune responses uh, and testosterone is an immunosuppresant.
Like you said, so from the get go, right out
of the gate, you're just men, You're just more stickly. Sorry. Now,
another component of that Cambridge research that you brought up, Caroline,
is that males tend to uh. Their priority tends to
(07:10):
be in making sure that they can reproduce, whereas females
tend to make sure that they are physically healthier and
stronger to nurture. So instead of um resting up and
getting themselves back into health, men might put themselves at
(07:32):
a higher risk for reinfection by just going out and
trying to keep mate must mate, must mate. Well, but
it's interesting because yes, I can see how that is
absolutely true and it makes sense. But on the other hand,
doesn't it seem to contradict the whole idea of the
man flow of like men lying around on the couch
for weeks getting better and whining, where women are like
(07:53):
I gotta drag myself to work. Well, I mean, this
is going bad. That's how I found what I'm sick Uh, well, yes,
that's a good point. But it also you know, I
mean that's that's condensing things down to these very um evolutionary,
animalistic based instincts. It doesn't mean that, you know, by extension,
(08:15):
if a guy is running a temperature, he will put
on put on his his sassy jeans and hit the
hit the club to try and find a honey in
his bajomegy or as we just go put our snuggie on.
Yes I have a I have a Santa Snuggie. Um.
But this Dr Rastaff from Cambridge uh talked about the
(08:38):
genetics behind all of this, and he said that the
benefit of rapid recovery in males decreases owing to constant reinfections.
So they're they're going out there and like mate mate
mate mate mate um, and so they're they're getting reinfected.
They're not giving their bodies time to heal um. And
over time, this is actually selected for lower resistance in
(08:58):
males because think about it, If the guys who are
getting sick are still going out there and reproducing, then
all these babies are selected for having lower immune systems
or or being more prone to reinfection. UM. So this
this yeah, like he says. Rest Off says this ultimately
leads to males with higher susceptibility or exposure than females
(09:22):
and developing lower immuno competence. But not everybody is on board,
of course, with this idea of of a major gender
difference in immune system responses. Don Jay Diamond, who is
the director of a translational vaccine research and a professor
of virology at City Hope in California, is a total skeptic.
(09:46):
He says, Uh, well, riddle me this. Why has there
never been a gender specific vaccine? Boys and girls will
get like if if you take a boy and a
girl and to get their technis shot, they're going to
get the same dosage, right exactly. He said that there
has never been a vaccine released for human use that
has used a different dose for male and female. But
(10:08):
then he goes on to give give women some some
more props. I really liked this episode because it's one
rare time when it's like, yeah, we were just across
the board, sorry, fellas, we are uh stronger animals in
this sense. He says that women are better at being
sick because we have an innately higher pain tolerance, allowing
(10:33):
us to you guessed it. Have babies, right, We're pushing
out babies all the time, and we can deal with it.
Although I mean, I whimper at a paper cut, so
I'm not sure how much set a plus to me,
but yeah, he says that women seem to tough out
the flu better. Maybe maybe your whimpering a paper cut
implies that you have higher levels of testosterom. Another interesting
(10:53):
place where men and women differ as far as immune
systems involves post traumatic stress disorder. Yes, UM, men show
no immune response in regard to PTSD, but women have
a strong one. UM and people with PTSD have been
shown to have higher rates of cardiovascular disease and arthritis.
Which your disease is associated with chronic inflammation and this
(11:18):
has to do with um cell signaling pathways. So basically
to try to boil it down and not confuse myself
or the listeners. UM. Because women have this stronger immune
system and stronger immune system response UM, we tend to
um have more inflammation because of this response. So in
(11:42):
two of the three pathways referenced in this this study,
bead inflammation, two of the three pathways associated with inflammation,
there was evidence of signaling for inflammation. But in the
third pathway, men had increased signaling which led to less inflammation,
and women and had decreased signaling, which could lead to
(12:03):
more inflammation. And that's hard to break down, but basically, um,
when women have PTSD and stress and anxiety and all
this stuff, our immune system is not helping with inflammation, right.
And here's where, um, the scales begin to tip in
terms of women's stronger or maybe finer tuned immune systems
(12:28):
because since since they might be a little a little
more sensitive for lack of a better word, it can
also lead to immune hyper immunity hyperactivity UM. And that's
one reason why, UM, this these gender differences among the
chronic diseases associated with PTSD might affect more women, and
(12:51):
also why autoimmune diseases such as celiac disease, inflammatory bowel disease,
multiple sclerosis, aiasis, but a lot I GO and so
forth affect women far more frequently than men because autoimmune
diseases happen when your immune system actually starts attacking healthy cells.
(13:13):
There are no foreign invaders. Your body just kind of
goes into a into overdrive, and as a result, autoimmune
diseases target women of the time. So in exchange for
you know, men perhaps having some rougher or at least
wimpier days in bed every winter, we get we get surrices.
(13:41):
Not to not to laugh at having surises, but but
that's the that's called a give and take, my friends. Right.
And I mean a lot of people have autoimmune disorders
in this country. They affect twenty three point five million Americans,
but most of that number are a women and especially
minority women are the most effect did by autoimmune diseases
(14:02):
UM and compounding problems. Even more, a lot of these
are are difficult to diagnose until it's almost too late
to do anything about it and um and doctors might
uh what it was. This according to a two thousand
one survey from the Autoimmune Diseases Association, over patients with
autoimmune diseases were simply labeled chronic complainers, right, which is
(14:28):
just like when we talked about in our anxiety podcast,
women who go in with symptoms like shortness of breath,
not sleeping well, chest pressure pain are the doctors are like,
here's a prescription for anxiety or antidepressant medication, whereas men
might be taken more seriously and get a full work up.
It's it's kind of a similar effect here. And these
(14:50):
immune system differences also come up with how our bodies
respond to alcohol. Right, Alcohol, as man any of you know,
acts as an immune immuno suppressant, but it suppresses everyone's
immune system, men and women. But the thing is it
affects women more. Um. Alcohol consumption women will initially cause
(15:15):
a spike in estrogen production and then a major drop
off in the estrogen production. And these fluctuations affect the
production of cytokinds and those are immune cells. And in
men it causes a decrease in testosterone. So so if
there is so if testosterone then is an immuno suppressant
(15:38):
and that level is going down. Well, but alcohol is
an immuno suppressant also, So so it's just it's all
like all the holes are getting plugged. So the moral
of that story is drinking is not good for you. Right. Well,
now that the study about alcohol in immune system did
point out that, um, you know, people who drink like
(15:59):
one glass of red wine. We've heard people say this
that like, if you have one glass of red wine
a day, it's not going to kill you. And and
that wine has red wine has um antioxidants. There we
go um. But it's when you're drinking the whole bottle
that it's like, oh, well, now you're gonna get sick.
Maybe we get so sick um in the wintertime then,
not so much because of the cold weather, but because
(16:20):
of all the holiday parties that are happening. We're drinking more.
Very well good, Maybe we need to kiss people more,
which leads me to my next point. So perhaps mistletoe
is the vaccine of the holiday season, because I do
have a segue here, people, two thousand nine study found
(16:41):
that kissing might be an important part of building our
immune systems. Now, before we go any further, if you
have a cold right now, this does not mean you
need to start making out with somebody now. You should
have taken care of this before you got the cold,
right because because you can't pass along many germs, including
oral her bees, right through through open mouth kissing, So
(17:03):
be selective in your time of kissing. Wait, but we
got to explain the relationship between immunity and we can't
you mean we can't just leave it at that, Okay,
grab the nearest person. Well, the studies showed that the
longer you kiss a person, your partner or whoever, and
in six months is the ideal. This is where a
(17:24):
woman kissing length This is really focused on women kissing,
women kissing whoever. That the more likely she is to
be immune to the cytomegalovirus, which almost sounds like a dinosaur.
I don't know, it's like an evil. It has spikes,
that virus like a transformer, right, But it makes her
(17:44):
more likely to be immune to the site a megalovirus
if she gets pregnant. And that virus, that particular virus
is is pretty um harmless if you just happen to
get it now. But I can actually really do a
lot of damage to a fetus. So I imagine anything
called a megalovirus REA terrible habitsovirus UM. But yeah, and
(18:07):
and this is not Scientists don't think that this is
why kissing originated. Um. It had more to lit this
is so gross. It had more to do with They
think that we um regurgitated food for our kids like birds.
What's so gross about that? Caroline? Oh, I'm sorry, Oh
that's right. That's how you eat your lunch. I freathought
it's just food. But anyway, when that happened. It also
(18:30):
passed along germs and spit and whatever else. And uh
so that's how the offspring would be more immune too,
you know, sickness and whatnot. But this study also or
the article talking about this um study also urged readers
to um not kiss your pets. Oh god, this is gross.
(18:53):
Well I don't understand why people let pets licked them
on the face. Anyway, we'll see. I was thinking, like
anything that licks, it's but what if I kiss my cat?
Said that's fine? O your cats tengue. Your cat's tongue
can't reach its kissing. I just want to, like, you know,
given your little no no, they like, do not let
And I know I have seen people do this and
(19:14):
I think it's disgusting. Um yeah, just send me angry mail.
Go ahead. But if you let your pet lick you
on the mouth, I mean pet, think just think about
where your pet's tongue has been. It's possible that you
could get several gross sicknesses and worms and whatever if
you let your pet french kiss you. I wish people
(19:36):
get see the look on your face right now, because
it is a sheer horror, pained pain. So yes, so
don't don't kiss your dog, but you can. You can
kiss people right, kiss people, ideally one person for a
significant length of time to build up, right, to build
up immunity to that person's stuff that he's carrying around.
(19:59):
Maybe that should be the benchmark for for when you
call someone your your boyfriend, like once, once you're immune
to each other's jump I'm protected against cytomegalovirus, so we
can we can take things to the next level now.
But yeah, they were saying. They were saying that basically,
if you are with someone that you might want to
have babies with, you should be kissing them for at
least six months before you decide to get pregnant to
(20:20):
be immune to the cytomegalovirus. Are romantic? Yeah, so enough
about kissing. We gotta we gotta answer our original question
because we have established that, yes, there are gender differences
in immune systems. It seems like our X chromosome are
additional X chromosome and our estrogen might protect us as
(20:42):
and us by us I mean women a little better
for the long haul, although it can cause our immune
systems to go into overdrive and lead to a bunch
of autoimmune disorders, which is a downer, but original question
is about man flu, this whole thing of you know,
do men are men getting sicker more often or at
(21:04):
least more loudly during the winter. What do you think? Well,
I don't know. I mean, I I complain a lot
when I'm sick, so I'm really I'm not want to talk.
After all that snack I talked earlier, I really can't talk.
Maybe you get you get you get a little man flu. Look, Kristen,
that's the second time you've insinuated that I'm sorry about this. Well,
(21:30):
whether or not man flu is or is not real,
and guys listening right now, I want to hear from you,
and I really hope that uh, you've not taken offense
I genuinely, or any girlfriends or mothers who have taken
care of men, yeah, or boyfriends taking care guys. Um.
So this is from Medical News Today a study from
Bennington Healthcare Society in the UK. They found that women
(21:56):
tend to phone in sick to work more often, whether
or not man flu is real. Over the entirety of
our careers, women will phone in sick eighty nine times.
Men will do it only a hundred and forty times,
but listen to this. The average adult only takes three
and a half sick days per year. We are some
(22:17):
tough cookies. Well, but don't you think those numbers I
mean to to kind of go off on a side thing,
But anyway, don't you think that those numbers could reflect that,
like mothers take time off for their children. Yeah, I
think that absolutely could account for the difference. Um. And
even though we are calling in a little bit more often,
um and blaming it on stomach bugs, dizziness and viruses,
(22:39):
most often, women, no matter what, feel a lot guiltier
making that call or sending that email, and we will
try to work anyway, whereas men like feel guilty like
half as often. Well, good for them, good for everyone.
So home, even though everybody go home, don't pass here
(22:59):
your sickness cares. Who has the better immune system? You're
confind at work? Yeah, either drinks and water get rid
of that tickle in your throat or film. Yeah. Well,
I mean, now that we've talked about how man flu
gives men the opportunity to be more vulnerable, and that
women power through and and and yet take more sick days,
maybe we take more sick days because we're feeling so
(23:20):
guilty when we are sick that it's only exacerbating our symptoms.
We become more anxious, and then we get an autoimmune disorder.
I feel like a lot of pet theories have come
up in my brain during this we don't kiss your
pets that yes, some more, or the stories that I
want to leave you with don't kiss your pets and
the mouth yeah on the mouth, um, and yeah, let
(23:42):
us know your thoughts on I want to hear other
people's pet theories about this whole man flu thing. And men,
I'm talking to you too, what do you what do
you think? Moms? Stuff at how stuff works dot com
is the email address, and I have a funny story
to share right now. Uh. This is from Derek and
(24:06):
he was writing to share a story about our Slasher
Halloween podcast. He starts out, I was surprised to hear
no mention of Nightmare on Elm Street two. In this film,
Mark Patton plays the role of the screaming typical female
slasher lead, yet is seemingly a total homosexual. Shower scenes,
dreams of gay bars, along with explicit thoughts of young boys.
(24:27):
Jim Teacher have dubbed this movie by cracked dot com
the most unintentional gay horror movie of all time. I've
been married to my husband for about two years and
we spent our belated honeymoon in Puerto vire To, Mexico.
Among the little shops downtown, we quickly fell in love
with a little craft store. The owner of the store
was incredibly kind to us, gave us a whole itinerary
(24:50):
list of favorite places check out, check out. And it
wasn't until the final day of the trip, when we
were visiting the shop owner that I recognized an action
figure of Mark Patton from Nightmare on Elm Street Too
sitting on the shelf. The resemblance between this little toy
and the store's owner was so uncanny I couldn't help
but comment, Lo and behold, the shop owner was Mark Patton, himself,
(25:12):
the ultimate gay horror movie star, tucked away in the
beautiful hills of Puerto Vaiarta. Interesting. So that's a fun story,
Mark Patton. Yeah, tourist destination. I'll have to check out
Nightmare on Elm Street too. I'm gonna say that I will,
but I probably won't. I don't watch any more movies.
So thanks to Derek in my key for that story. Yeah,
(25:32):
this is an email from Brielle about our spy episode.
She said, I really enjoyed your latest podcast on Lady Spies,
but I was surprised that the recent Angeline and Joe
Lee by film Salt never came up. This role, which
was originally written for Brad Pitt, was so interesting because
it didn't fit the stereotypical women woman's spy trope. Although
I didn't find the role that revolutionary, I can easily
(25:53):
imagine the movie with a male lead. I thought, I
actually thought it was written for uh Tom crue Is,
but and I didn't. I don't. I didn't like that
maybe I never saw I also didn't like want it.
Angelina A. Jelie, please make something better. Thank you, Briale.
Maybe she's listening right now, Angelia. Send us your thoughts
(26:14):
mom Stuff at house stuff works dot com. You can
always find us over at Facebook and follow us on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and you can head over
to the blog during the week It's stuff Mom Never
Told You at how Stuff works dot com. Be sure
to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
(26:36):
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
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It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?
From how stup works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristin Kristen. Every winter
(00:21):
and I don't mean to sound mean to my dad,
Hi dad, but every winter my dad gets some sickness,
some regular run of the mill like sniffles, kind of
aches and pains, and he acts as if the end
is near, I know, And then he goes to his doctor,
and his doctors like go home, you're fine, hem s bright,
(00:43):
have an orange, get over it. But apparently he's not
the only one. Apparently this is a theme with his gender. Yeah.
I did not know that the term man flew existed
before we started researching this podcast, um, but apparently it's
pretty common in the UK, and it is an expression
(01:06):
that's a tongue in cheek term used to describe how
men may tend to inflate their symptoms of what is
probably just a common cold into a life threatening illness
and they want to be weighted on hand and foot
as they get better, right, And I I mean I've
(01:27):
seen this before I I used to live with dudes,
so I've seen where. You know, guys can tend to
be all weak and whiney, especially if they have a
girlfriend or someone available or a mom to to wait
on them and bring them soup and such. Yeah, if
they have a way to take advantage of it. Now,
I'm not gonna lie. Uh. Sometimes like if there's someone
around me and I'm sick and I and I know
(01:49):
that things can be done for me, I may or
may not take advantage of that. But but man flu
is supposedly this uh, this thing that that that guys do.
And uh. Dr Charles Risin, who was a clinical director
of the Mind and Body Program at Emory University School
of Medicine here in Atlanta, Georgia, says that it might
(02:12):
be because um men become more emotionally vulnerable when they
are physically sick. Yeah, they actually it's possible that they
actually experienced the physical symptoms of a cold or the
flu worse than women do. Whereas we might be more
emotionally vulnerable and be willing to talk about our problem,
(02:35):
men maybe are more vulnerable when they are ill and
then they feel like, Okay, this is my time to
be vulnerable because it's it's easier to be vulnerable when
you're sick and you feel all achy and snut sniff
ley and whatever than it is if you're like, if
your feelings are hurt, because you're like, no, I'm a man,
I'm just gonna tough it out, dude. Uh. And the
(02:56):
thing is, there is some scientific evidence to back up
at least the gender differences in UM immune systems, and
specifically that women might have stronger that's right, fellas stronger
immune systems than men. Right, it's all thanks to our
double X chromosomes. Yeah, chromosomes coming in handy. This is uh.
(03:20):
Some research that came out of Ghent University in Belgium
this past fall, and they looked at the role of
micro RNAs encoded on the X chromosome, of which women
have to UM and they think that the micro RNase
have something to do with our superior immunity. Is speaking
(03:46):
of women and gender differences, it's already been shown in
some studies that we tend to live longer UM, and
now with this evidence that we have stronger immune systems.
I just think it's interesting because we just seem to
be winning way on the contest of of of living.
I don't know. Anyway, we're better equipped to fight sepsis,
(04:07):
infection and trauma. And this is not just in female humans,
this is also in other female mammalian species, right, And
it has to do with gene silencing. Um. Since book uh,
the the X chromosome is tied to immunity and with
gene silencing. If if part of our X chromosome gets silenced,
(04:30):
to make it kind of simplistic, um, we've still got
this other one hanging out. Whereas men have an X
and a Y and so if they're uh, if their
genes tied in with immunity gets silence, then they're just
they're like, well, I got nothing. And the reason why
genes play such an important role in sickness, disease and
conversely immunity is because genes produce the proteins in our bodies,
(04:56):
which are then responsible for things like our looks, um are,
our development, um, how we function both good and bad.
So when it comes to diseases, if you have a
faulty gene, that might lead to some faulty proteins, which
might lead to then faulty protein related activity, leaving you
(05:16):
sickly and faulty and faulty. Um, Yeah, Cambridge. A study
at a Cambridge in UM said that the man flu
is not a myth and then it has a lot
to do with UM with different gender differences in immunity
and Dr Oliver Rustuff said in many cases, males tend
to be more prone to get infected or less able
(05:38):
to clear infection, and he cites the interference between male
hormones and immunity as well as risk taking behavior that
goes back to our caveman ancestors. So speaking of risky behavior,
this is the perfect time to talk about hormones because
the male tendency toward risk behavior is linked back to testosterone. Okay,
(06:01):
And in two thousand nine there was a study out
of McGill University Health Center that claimed that estrogen in
the female body could also provide UM some inflammatory response
against bacterial pathogens because it blocks the reduction of an
enzyme called cast paced twelve, which blocks the inflammatory process UM. So,
(06:27):
not only might the micro RNA in our ex chromosome
help us out in terms of living longer and fighting
trauma and infection, but then estrogen comes along gives us
a little bit more of a boose, whereas testosterone is
putting men physically in danger all the time, right, Estrogen
(06:48):
stimulates the immune responses uh, and testosterone is an immunosuppresant.
Like you said, so from the get go, right out
of the gate, you're just men, You're just more stickly. Sorry. Now,
another component of that Cambridge research that you brought up, Caroline,
is that males tend to uh. Their priority tends to
(07:10):
be in making sure that they can reproduce, whereas females
tend to make sure that they are physically healthier and
stronger to nurture. So instead of um resting up and
getting themselves back into health, men might put themselves at
(07:32):
a higher risk for reinfection by just going out and
trying to keep mate must mate, must mate. Well, but
it's interesting because yes, I can see how that is
absolutely true and it makes sense. But on the other hand,
doesn't it seem to contradict the whole idea of the
man flow of like men lying around on the couch
for weeks getting better and whining, where women are like
(07:53):
I gotta drag myself to work. Well, I mean, this
is going bad. That's how I found what I'm sick Uh, well, yes,
that's a good point. But it also you know, I
mean that's that's condensing things down to these very um evolutionary,
animalistic based instincts. It doesn't mean that, you know, by extension,
(08:15):
if a guy is running a temperature, he will put
on put on his his sassy jeans and hit the
hit the club to try and find a honey in
his bajomegy or as we just go put our snuggie on.
Yes I have a I have a Santa Snuggie. Um.
But this Dr Rastaff from Cambridge uh talked about the
(08:38):
genetics behind all of this, and he said that the
benefit of rapid recovery in males decreases owing to constant reinfections.
So they're they're going out there and like mate mate
mate mate mate um, and so they're they're getting reinfected.
They're not giving their bodies time to heal um. And
over time, this is actually selected for lower resistance in
(08:58):
males because think about it, If the guys who are
getting sick are still going out there and reproducing, then
all these babies are selected for having lower immune systems
or or being more prone to reinfection. UM. So this
this yeah, like he says. Rest Off says this ultimately
leads to males with higher susceptibility or exposure than females
(09:22):
and developing lower immuno competence. But not everybody is on board,
of course, with this idea of of a major gender
difference in immune system responses. Don Jay Diamond, who is
the director of a translational vaccine research and a professor
of virology at City Hope in California, is a total skeptic.
(09:46):
He says, Uh, well, riddle me this. Why has there
never been a gender specific vaccine? Boys and girls will
get like if if you take a boy and a
girl and to get their technis shot, they're going to
get the same dosage, right exactly. He said that there
has never been a vaccine released for human use that
has used a different dose for male and female. But
(10:08):
then he goes on to give give women some some
more props. I really liked this episode because it's one
rare time when it's like, yeah, we were just across
the board, sorry, fellas, we are uh stronger animals in
this sense. He says that women are better at being
sick because we have an innately higher pain tolerance, allowing
(10:33):
us to you guessed it. Have babies, right, We're pushing
out babies all the time, and we can deal with it.
Although I mean, I whimper at a paper cut, so
I'm not sure how much set a plus to me,
but yeah, he says that women seem to tough out
the flu better. Maybe maybe your whimpering a paper cut
implies that you have higher levels of testosterom. Another interesting
(10:53):
place where men and women differ as far as immune
systems involves post traumatic stress disorder. Yes, UM, men show
no immune response in regard to PTSD, but women have
a strong one. UM and people with PTSD have been
shown to have higher rates of cardiovascular disease and arthritis.
Which your disease is associated with chronic inflammation and this
(11:18):
has to do with um cell signaling pathways. So basically
to try to boil it down and not confuse myself
or the listeners. UM. Because women have this stronger immune
system and stronger immune system response UM, we tend to
um have more inflammation because of this response. So in
(11:42):
two of the three pathways referenced in this this study,
bead inflammation, two of the three pathways associated with inflammation,
there was evidence of signaling for inflammation. But in the
third pathway, men had increased signaling which led to less inflammation,
and women and had decreased signaling, which could lead to
(12:03):
more inflammation. And that's hard to break down, but basically, um,
when women have PTSD and stress and anxiety and all
this stuff, our immune system is not helping with inflammation, right.
And here's where, um, the scales begin to tip in
terms of women's stronger or maybe finer tuned immune systems
(12:28):
because since since they might be a little a little
more sensitive for lack of a better word, it can
also lead to immune hyper immunity hyperactivity UM. And that's
one reason why, UM, this these gender differences among the
chronic diseases associated with PTSD might affect more women, and
(12:51):
also why autoimmune diseases such as celiac disease, inflammatory bowel disease,
multiple sclerosis, aiasis, but a lot I GO and so
forth affect women far more frequently than men because autoimmune
diseases happen when your immune system actually starts attacking healthy cells.
(13:13):
There are no foreign invaders. Your body just kind of
goes into a into overdrive, and as a result, autoimmune
diseases target women of the time. So in exchange for
you know, men perhaps having some rougher or at least
wimpier days in bed every winter, we get we get surrices.
(13:41):
Not to not to laugh at having surises, but but
that's the that's called a give and take, my friends. Right.
And I mean a lot of people have autoimmune disorders
in this country. They affect twenty three point five million Americans,
but most of that number are a women and especially
minority women are the most effect did by autoimmune diseases
(14:02):
UM and compounding problems. Even more, a lot of these
are are difficult to diagnose until it's almost too late
to do anything about it and um and doctors might
uh what it was. This according to a two thousand
one survey from the Autoimmune Diseases Association, over patients with
autoimmune diseases were simply labeled chronic complainers, right, which is
(14:28):
just like when we talked about in our anxiety podcast,
women who go in with symptoms like shortness of breath,
not sleeping well, chest pressure pain are the doctors are like,
here's a prescription for anxiety or antidepressant medication, whereas men
might be taken more seriously and get a full work up.
It's it's kind of a similar effect here. And these
(14:50):
immune system differences also come up with how our bodies
respond to alcohol. Right, Alcohol, as man any of you know,
acts as an immune immuno suppressant, but it suppresses everyone's
immune system, men and women. But the thing is it
affects women more. Um. Alcohol consumption women will initially cause
(15:15):
a spike in estrogen production and then a major drop
off in the estrogen production. And these fluctuations affect the
production of cytokinds and those are immune cells. And in
men it causes a decrease in testosterone. So so if
there is so if testosterone then is an immuno suppressant
(15:38):
and that level is going down. Well, but alcohol is
an immuno suppressant also, So so it's just it's all
like all the holes are getting plugged. So the moral
of that story is drinking is not good for you. Right. Well,
now that the study about alcohol in immune system did
point out that, um, you know, people who drink like
(15:59):
one glass of red wine. We've heard people say this
that like, if you have one glass of red wine
a day, it's not going to kill you. And and
that wine has red wine has um antioxidants. There we
go um. But it's when you're drinking the whole bottle
that it's like, oh, well, now you're gonna get sick.
Maybe we get so sick um in the wintertime then,
not so much because of the cold weather, but because
(16:20):
of all the holiday parties that are happening. We're drinking more.
Very well good, Maybe we need to kiss people more,
which leads me to my next point. So perhaps mistletoe
is the vaccine of the holiday season, because I do
have a segue here, people, two thousand nine study found
(16:41):
that kissing might be an important part of building our
immune systems. Now, before we go any further, if you
have a cold right now, this does not mean you
need to start making out with somebody now. You should
have taken care of this before you got the cold,
right because because you can't pass along many germs, including
oral her bees, right through through open mouth kissing, So
(17:03):
be selective in your time of kissing. Wait, but we
got to explain the relationship between immunity and we can't
you mean we can't just leave it at that, Okay,
grab the nearest person. Well, the studies showed that the
longer you kiss a person, your partner or whoever, and
in six months is the ideal. This is where a
(17:24):
woman kissing length This is really focused on women kissing,
women kissing whoever. That the more likely she is to
be immune to the cytomegalovirus, which almost sounds like a dinosaur.
I don't know, it's like an evil. It has spikes,
that virus like a transformer, right, But it makes her
(17:44):
more likely to be immune to the site a megalovirus
if she gets pregnant. And that virus, that particular virus
is is pretty um harmless if you just happen to
get it now. But I can actually really do a
lot of damage to a fetus. So I imagine anything
called a megalovirus REA terrible habitsovirus UM. But yeah, and
(18:07):
and this is not Scientists don't think that this is
why kissing originated. Um. It had more to lit this
is so gross. It had more to do with They
think that we um regurgitated food for our kids like birds.
What's so gross about that? Caroline? Oh, I'm sorry, Oh
that's right. That's how you eat your lunch. I freathought
it's just food. But anyway, when that happened. It also
(18:30):
passed along germs and spit and whatever else. And uh
so that's how the offspring would be more immune too,
you know, sickness and whatnot. But this study also or
the article talking about this um study also urged readers
to um not kiss your pets. Oh god, this is gross.
(18:53):
Well I don't understand why people let pets licked them
on the face. Anyway, we'll see. I was thinking, like
anything that licks, it's but what if I kiss my cat?
Said that's fine? O your cats tengue. Your cat's tongue
can't reach its kissing. I just want to, like, you know,
given your little no no, they like, do not let
And I know I have seen people do this and
(19:14):
I think it's disgusting. Um yeah, just send me angry mail.
Go ahead. But if you let your pet lick you
on the mouth, I mean pet, think just think about
where your pet's tongue has been. It's possible that you
could get several gross sicknesses and worms and whatever if
you let your pet french kiss you. I wish people
(19:36):
get see the look on your face right now, because
it is a sheer horror, pained pain. So yes, so
don't don't kiss your dog, but you can. You can
kiss people right, kiss people, ideally one person for a
significant length of time to build up, right, to build
up immunity to that person's stuff that he's carrying around.
(19:59):
Maybe that should be the benchmark for for when you
call someone your your boyfriend, like once, once you're immune
to each other's jump I'm protected against cytomegalovirus, so we
can we can take things to the next level now.
But yeah, they were saying. They were saying that basically,
if you are with someone that you might want to
have babies with, you should be kissing them for at
least six months before you decide to get pregnant to
(20:20):
be immune to the cytomegalovirus. Are romantic? Yeah, so enough
about kissing. We gotta we gotta answer our original question
because we have established that, yes, there are gender differences
in immune systems. It seems like our X chromosome are
additional X chromosome and our estrogen might protect us as
(20:42):
and us by us I mean women a little better
for the long haul, although it can cause our immune
systems to go into overdrive and lead to a bunch
of autoimmune disorders, which is a downer, but original question
is about man flu, this whole thing of you know,
do men are men getting sicker more often or at
(21:04):
least more loudly during the winter. What do you think? Well,
I don't know. I mean, I I complain a lot
when I'm sick, so I'm really I'm not want to talk.
After all that snack I talked earlier, I really can't talk.
Maybe you get you get you get a little man flu. Look, Kristen,
that's the second time you've insinuated that I'm sorry about this. Well,
(21:30):
whether or not man flu is or is not real,
and guys listening right now, I want to hear from you,
and I really hope that uh, you've not taken offense
I genuinely, or any girlfriends or mothers who have taken
care of men, yeah, or boyfriends taking care guys. Um.
So this is from Medical News Today a study from
Bennington Healthcare Society in the UK. They found that women
(21:56):
tend to phone in sick to work more often, whether
or not man flu is real. Over the entirety of
our careers, women will phone in sick eighty nine times.
Men will do it only a hundred and forty times,
but listen to this. The average adult only takes three
and a half sick days per year. We are some
(22:17):
tough cookies. Well, but don't you think those numbers I
mean to to kind of go off on a side thing,
But anyway, don't you think that those numbers could reflect that,
like mothers take time off for their children. Yeah, I
think that absolutely could account for the difference. Um. And
even though we are calling in a little bit more often,
um and blaming it on stomach bugs, dizziness and viruses,
(22:39):
most often, women, no matter what, feel a lot guiltier
making that call or sending that email, and we will
try to work anyway, whereas men like feel guilty like
half as often. Well, good for them, good for everyone.
So home, even though everybody go home, don't pass here
(22:59):
your sickness cares. Who has the better immune system? You're
confind at work? Yeah, either drinks and water get rid
of that tickle in your throat or film. Yeah. Well,
I mean, now that we've talked about how man flu
gives men the opportunity to be more vulnerable, and that
women power through and and and yet take more sick days,
maybe we take more sick days because we're feeling so
(23:20):
guilty when we are sick that it's only exacerbating our symptoms.
We become more anxious, and then we get an autoimmune disorder.
I feel like a lot of pet theories have come
up in my brain during this we don't kiss your
pets that yes, some more, or the stories that I
want to leave you with don't kiss your pets and
the mouth yeah on the mouth, um, and yeah, let
(23:42):
us know your thoughts on I want to hear other
people's pet theories about this whole man flu thing. And men,
I'm talking to you too, what do you what do
you think? Moms? Stuff at how stuff works dot com
is the email address, and I have a funny story
to share right now. Uh. This is from Derek and
(24:06):
he was writing to share a story about our Slasher
Halloween podcast. He starts out, I was surprised to hear
no mention of Nightmare on Elm Street two. In this film,
Mark Patton plays the role of the screaming typical female
slasher lead, yet is seemingly a total homosexual. Shower scenes,
dreams of gay bars, along with explicit thoughts of young boys.
(24:27):
Jim Teacher have dubbed this movie by cracked dot com
the most unintentional gay horror movie of all time. I've
been married to my husband for about two years and
we spent our belated honeymoon in Puerto vire To, Mexico.
Among the little shops downtown, we quickly fell in love
with a little craft store. The owner of the store
was incredibly kind to us, gave us a whole itinerary
(24:50):
list of favorite places check out, check out. And it
wasn't until the final day of the trip, when we
were visiting the shop owner that I recognized an action
figure of Mark Patton from Nightmare on Elm Street Too
sitting on the shelf. The resemblance between this little toy
and the store's owner was so uncanny I couldn't help
but comment, Lo and behold, the shop owner was Mark Patton, himself,
(25:12):
the ultimate gay horror movie star, tucked away in the
beautiful hills of Puerto Vaiarta. Interesting. So that's a fun story,
Mark Patton. Yeah, tourist destination. I'll have to check out
Nightmare on Elm Street too. I'm gonna say that I will,
but I probably won't. I don't watch any more movies.
So thanks to Derek in my key for that story. Yeah,
(25:32):
this is an email from Brielle about our spy episode.
She said, I really enjoyed your latest podcast on Lady Spies,
but I was surprised that the recent Angeline and Joe
Lee by film Salt never came up. This role, which
was originally written for Brad Pitt, was so interesting because
it didn't fit the stereotypical women woman's spy trope. Although
I didn't find the role that revolutionary, I can easily
(25:53):
imagine the movie with a male lead. I thought, I
actually thought it was written for uh Tom crue Is,
but and I didn't. I don't. I didn't like that
maybe I never saw I also didn't like want it.
Angelina A. Jelie, please make something better. Thank you, Briale.
Maybe she's listening right now, Angelia. Send us your thoughts
(26:14):
mom Stuff at house stuff works dot com. You can
always find us over at Facebook and follow us on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and you can head over
to the blog during the week It's stuff Mom Never
Told You at how Stuff works dot com. Be sure
to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
(26:36):
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The house, Stuff Works,
I found up has a ride. Download it today on iTunes,
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