February 21, 2018 • 25 mins
Like many mass shooters, the Parkland shooter had a history of troubling behavior against women. We need to talk about it.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Bridget and this is Emily, and you're
listening the stuff Mom ever told you. And as a
quick reminder before we dive into today's episode, Bossed Up,
the podcast is officially live in Apple Podcasts, so go
(00:28):
subscribe now if you are interested in keeping in touch
and getting some Bossed Up career advice and some personal
and professional development in your earbuds on a regular basis.
The podcast is debuting March first, but you can get
subscribed right now. Thank you so much for welcoming me
with such open arms as Bridget and I have taken
this journey together on stuff Mom never told you, and
(00:50):
I can't wait to hear where we go from here.
And now for today's episode, so right off the bat,
we have to start with a trigger warning. This episode
deals with gun violence. Sadly, the topic of mass shootings
is timely and it seems like it always is. On Wednesday,
at least seventeen people were killed during a school shooting
at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. The suspect,
(01:13):
nineteen year old Nicholas Cruise, was arrested on the scene.
You may have seen on CNN a mother, who lost
one of her children in this perfect shooting, pleaded with
Donald Trump to do something about gun violence in this country.
Here's what she had to say. How how do we
allow a gunman to come into our children's school? How
do they get through security? What security is there? There's
(01:36):
no metal detectors. The gunman, the crazy person, just walks
right into the school, knocks down the window of my
child's door and started shooting, shooting her and killing her.
President Trump, you say, what can you do? You can
stop the guns for getting into these children's hands. Oh
(01:56):
my god, I honestly do not know how anybody can
listen to the raw grief and and sort of carnal
plea in that woman's voice, that mother's voice that anybody
with children especially must be able to relate to, and
then go on and do nothing about it, or like
(02:17):
Donald Trump, not even respond to that. Well. I actually
think that as a country, we reached a moment where
we just decided this is our new normal. I think
after a new town, as a country, we just threw
up our hands. We decided this is our new normal.
Nothing can be done. We are numb to this issue.
Once we decided that babies could get shot at point
(02:37):
blank range and we were going to do a damn
thing about it. I think it became clear how our
country is reacting to this issue, and I think it
is not at all. You're not reacting at all. Yeah,
it feels like we've hit rock bottom. Do you feel
like that's true for politicians or the public or both both.
I think when babies get killed, I think that when
we as a country agreed that it was okay that
(02:57):
babies got killed, you have so many people weren't okay
with that. I feel like if it ever came close,
it was then people made their voices, heard, organizations sprung up,
people donated. Who I mean, the parents there got so involved,
and what happened was nothing happened, right. So I it
sounds so cynical, but I think that we just all
(03:17):
agreed this is our normal and this is our life,
said now, agreed to tolerate this In actual Yeah, we
decided it was tolerable. And that's what I find so
disgusting that we. I mean, listen, I'm including myself in
this that when I saw the news of this breaking
on Twitter, I just thought another one. I remember when
Columbine happened. You know, I was a teenager, I was
(03:38):
in school, and I remember the way that parents and
teachers and administrators that was a big deal. We were
all in a fervor. And now, so many years later,
it's so interesting how it barely even registers. Well, the
frequency has gone up so much that now we don't
even know the names of the schools. These mass shootings
no longer have individualized names. New Town was a standout
(03:59):
and a normal in that regard. The shootings that happened
nowadays happened so frequently that we can't even keep track
of them or or name them exactly. When you see
the name of a town trending on Twitter, you just
assume there was a shooting there, and it's just it's
I think it's our new normal, and it's really sad
and disgusting. So let's talk a little bit about what
happened in Florida. So Cruz, who is the perpetrator of
(04:20):
this attack, was described as a troubled student, the kind
of student that nobody was surprised would do this kind
of thing. In fact, he was so troubled that he
wasn't even allowed to carry a backpack to school. He
made threats on social media. His social media presence was
filled with pictures of dead animals and things that you
would see and think, oh, this kid could be a threat.
So it wasn't like he was someone who was hiding
(04:41):
in plain sight waiting to do something. He was on
people's radars, and according to the Anti Defamation League, he
had ties to white supremacist groups as well. Yeah, on
social media he hurled slurs at Blacks and Muslims and
really seem that the kind of person who should not
have access to gun right. In fact, the FBI received
(05:02):
a report and YouTube was reported to just five months
ago when he commented on a YouTube video saying that
he wanted to become a professional school shooter. The creator
of the video, which I think was about guns, flagged
the comment, alerted YouTube and emailed the FBI around it.
And despite the fact that his name first and last
(05:23):
was the user name that he was posting under on YouTube,
the FBI couldn't trace the lead back to anything. Wow,
that is horrifying. So all these traits seemed like the
typical mrkers of a would be mass shooter crews actually
shares another trait in common with most mas shooters. One
that often goes overlooked, and that is a history of
troubling and violent behavior toward women. In fact, you'll hear
(05:45):
an episode from US later this week about why it's
so horrifying that our White House, this administration seems to
be able to look past people with histories of violence
towards women as something that's just a personal matter and
not that big a deal. But this is a great
reminder that when we treat domestic violence or violence against
women as a personal matter and not a very serious
(06:08):
predictor of future potentially mass violence, but really violence in general,
we are doing the world a disservice. We are making
the world a less safe place, and allowing these kinds
of people to have easy legal access to guns is abhorrent.
Exactly what this whole situation underscores to me is how
(06:30):
not seriously we take violence against women and domestic violence.
And when researchers say, hey, violence against women can actually
be thought of as a risk factor for violent behavior
towards the general public later on, it just goes to
show why it's so critical to take domestic violence seriously,
and we're not. Well, it's interesting, right, because that argument
could also be warped into saying, is it not enough
(06:53):
that a domestic abuser is already violent towards a woman?
We have to validate the fear. We have to double
down on the relevance of that kind of violence by saying, also,
this could be a predictor of violence towards everybody. So
maybe that you'll care about it then, right, I mean again,
it goes to show that as a country when it
(07:13):
happens but behind closed door in a home, we just
think it's not our problem. But I think that there
needs to be a shift that domestic violence is everybody's problem.
So true, so so true. So Crewis apparently had a
history of violent and troubling behavior towards women and girls.
One of his classmates told USA Today that Crews had
ultimately been expelled from school after a fight with his
ex girlfriend's new boyfriend. She also said that he had
(07:36):
been abusive to one of his earlier girlfriends. Other students
have pointed out that he was taken with a female
student to the point of stalking. Yeah. I hate how
they phrased that in the press too. He was taken
with her so much he stalked her. No, he's doctor Yeah,
and that's according to his math teacher and another student
who had said that he was formally close friends with
Crews but cut off his friendship after he started going
(07:59):
after and threatening a female friend of his. Really, it
sounds like, in addition to a whole host of other
troubling factors going on in this kid's life that people
seemingly didn't do anything about, one of those factors was
violence and disturbing behavior toward women in his life. And
it turns out he's not alone. Let's talk more about
that after a quick break and we're back. So it's
(08:29):
probably unsurprising to you that the perpetrators of mass shootings
modern America are overwhelmingly male, but they overwhelmingly also have
a history of domestic abuse or misogynistic behavior toward women. Yeah,
we're talking about people like Omar Matine, the twenty nine
year old who killed forty nine people at the Pulse
nightclub tragedy in Orlando in two thousand and sixteen. He
(08:49):
had reportedly abused his former wife on a regular basis. Yeah.
And the Virginia Tech shooter in April two thousand and seven,
who gunned down thirty two people at a school was
previously accused of harassing women two years earlier, and the
Virginia police actually had to order him to stop contacting
another female student. I mean, honestly, time and time again,
(09:10):
every single time we see a mass shooting like this
one look into the typically male perpetrators background, and you
often see abusive, harassing, violent behavior towards women, along with
the whole host of other warning signs, including, by the way,
cruelty towards animals, which is certainly present in terms of
(09:30):
this particular most recent shooters background exactly. According to Business Insider,
nine out of the ten deadliest mass shooting perpetrators have
a history of threatening, committing, or verbalizing domestic violence. And
according to Every Town for Gun Safety, mass shooters killed
a partner or a family member intent of shootings. So again,
(09:51):
it means that this idea that domestic violence is something
that's happening in the home, you know, none of our business.
That kind of thinking allows people who really might have
the capability to do something on a wider scale to fester.
And what's especially troubling to me is how easy it
is for these folks to get firearms. It's really an
American form of exceptionalism in terms of our ubiquity of
(10:15):
firearms in this country and the ease with which people
can buy them. Technically, folks who have domestic violence backgrounds
on their record aren't supposed to be able to get firearms.
They're legally barred from buying guns in our country, but
many of them have been able to get high capacity firearms. Anyway.
(10:35):
There's a bunch of different loopholes that the n r
A in particular has been steadfast and maintaining um and
not closing that make it pretty damn easy. For instance,
a gun shows for people to get firearms without much
of a background check, and again that just goes to
show that we're not taking violence against women seriously as
a risk factor for MAS shootings. Take, for instance, the
(10:57):
case of Devin Patrick Kelly back into Them. He went
to the church where his wife worshiped and ended up
killing twenty six people. As a convicted domestic compuser, Kelly
wasn't even legally allowed to have access to firearms, but
he ended up owning four. How do we allow that
to happen in this country? I mean, I think it's
insane that almost anybody, including people with such violent backgrounds
(11:21):
or warning signs, or just a nineteen year old dude
in general can walk in and buy firearms that easily.
And I'm I'm someone who enjoys shooting guns on occasion.
By the way, members of my family are proud gun owners,
but none of them think that the way things currently
are is even remotely okay. And you know, I'm all
(11:42):
about the sportsmanship that comes with gun ownership. There's nothing
wrong with that, but at what cost? And certainly none
of us can say that the way things are is tenable.
I think that's why common sense gun laws really have
quite bipartisans support. The last time we did mass national
polling on is after Newtown, people on both sides of
the aisle agreed something needs to change. But the n
(12:05):
r A s choke hold on our politics is so
powerful it seems almost impossible to get anything done. You
hit the nail on the head. I think most reasonable
folks would say, if you are convicted for a violent
crime of domestic abuse, you should not be able to
get your hands on a gun. Going back to the
situation with Kelly, Kelly was a member of the Air Force,
which acknowledged that he kind of slipped through the cracks.
(12:27):
They say that it appears that Kelly's domestic violence conviction
was not entered into the National Crime Information Centered Database,
which is why he was able to pass a background
check for a gun. And to make things more terrifying,
this case is not that unusual. According to a Florida
International University report, the military mishandled roughly thirteen thousand domestic
violence cases between two thousand four and two thousand twelve,
(12:48):
including misclassifications that allowed abusers to go unreported in the
n c I S. So essentially, people who have convictions
for domestic violence who really should not have their hands
on guns can kind of get them in. This isn't
just isolated to military personnel. Spotty enforcement really does allow
abusers to fall through the cracks. All twenty eight states
and DC have laws prohibiting convicted domestic abusers from buying
(13:10):
or possessing firearms. Only fourteen states require those people to
give up the guns they already have. So if you
have a gun in your house and you get convicted
of domestic violence, it's a crapshoot whether or not you
are legally required to give up a gun that you
already have in your possessions. Well, not to mention, enforcement
of that law is extremely difficult. Literally, all that police
officers have to go on is someone else's report, like
(13:33):
an abused, strange ex wife or partner saying, yeah, he
has a firearm, a handgun. He keeps it under his pillow.
They knock on his door and say, do you have
a firearm. We've heard you have a handgun, we heard
you keep it under your pillow. Can you give it
to us? And literally they can say I got no
firearm here, and that's it. Stories over, It's insane. I
(13:56):
definitely think having convicted domestic abusers on the honor system
is probably a bad plan. Actually, there was a story
I was listening to about this on my new local
NPR station in Denver, Colorado, and granted this very state
to state, but in Denver, the police were saying, we
oftentimes have to get in touch with these typically men's mothers,
(14:18):
to ask their mothers to reason with them. Like God,
the world is a broken place. If police are asking
for the unpaid labor of abusers mothers to talk some
sense into their weapon wielding abusive sons, it's very depressing.
This is so fundamentally broken and in other countries when
(14:41):
things were this broken, they did something about it, and
they said, hey, no guns for you anymore in Australia,
or hey no civilian firearms in the UK, which is extreme,
and obviously we don't even need to be that extreme
to make progress here in the United States. But our
lack of action altogether is a global embarrassment, and it
(15:01):
seems uniquely applied to the issue of guns, because not
that long ago one guy tried to sneak a bomb
onto a plane in his shoe, and now we all
take off our shoes at the airport. So it's like,
why is it that when that happened we needed swift
change from the top down, And when it comes to guns,
it's just this sort of do nothing approach. It doesn't
make any sense to me. The Constitution, Yeah, I mean, okay,
(15:26):
the Constitution, but I'm sure when the Framers wrote the
Constitution they weren't imagining semi automatic weapons. People who go
back to that, I think, did you think that the
Framers had I'm just saying, if the Framers had made
an amendment about the right to where your shoes fair,
we'd have a bigger argument about that. But instead they
happen to write the right to bear arms, and here
(15:47):
we are with this cluster of an interpretation war over
what that really means. And I'm with you how to present,
there's no way that they were talking about semi automatic
rifles that could take down an elephant being freely available
to nineteen year old I'm sure this isn't that what
they had in mind, not that they were drafting the constitution.
(16:08):
So let's talk a little bit about what can be
done about this issue if you're piste off as we
are after this quick break and we're back. So it
actually turns out, Emily, just like you were saying before,
that keeping guns out of the hands of convicted domestic
abusers is one of those rare issues that Democrats and
(16:31):
Republicans kind of agree on. Senator John Cornyn of Texas said, quote,
there are enormous problems with the background check system. Even
Republican Senator Jeff Flake, who's now outgoing and speaking his
truth in a way that he has in a long time,
teamed up with Democratic Senator Martin Heinrich to introduce a
(16:52):
bill that would require the military to accurately record and
report domestic violence convictions and Republican governors in Utah, North Dakota, Wisconsin,
and Michigan have all taken steps to limit gun rights
for domestic abusers. So this does seem like an issue
that most folks are in agreement needs to be handled.
And what's more, keeping guns away from convicted domestic abusers
(17:14):
seems to be pretty effective. And despite my reference to
the NPR story that ran in Denver, experts agree that
those laws requiring abusers to surrender their guns are effective.
The states that have implemented these so called relinquishment laws
saw a fourteen percent decline and intimate partner gun homicides
(17:35):
according to researchers at Boston University and at Duke University exactly, So,
just to be clear, and the levels had a little bit.
In scientific terms, the link between domestic violence and gun
violence still remains anecdotal. Just because mass shooters are often
abusers doesn't mean that abusers are more likely to be
mass shooters. And one of the things that so troubling
about this is that this link really needs to be
(17:57):
studied more So, what you're saying is that it's a correlation,
not a causal link. We actually don't really know because
we don't really study this enough. These connections only become
clear in hindsight, which is pretty much too late in
the case of a mass shooting. And not to mention,
we'd really not like to have a sample size that's
big enough for us to study mass shooters in a
(18:18):
huge way, Like this is not a sample size that
we want to increase to get better data on. We'd
like to just solve this problem without having to have
four thousand mass shooters to study. That's the thing, though,
We already have so many mass shootings that if we
were able to study the data that is already out there,
we could probably get someplace on this issue. Susan B. Sorenson,
a professor at the University of Pennsylvania and director of
(18:40):
the Ordner Center on Family Violence, basically just says that
same thing. She says, right now, we don't have enough
data to have a pattern. The one thing that we
know that mass shooters all have in common is that
they have access to massive firepower. That is a single
unifying force. Just a thought, maybe we shouldn't make it
so easy to get semi automatic death machines in mass
(19:02):
to like hoard these kinds of violent killing machine objects.
In people's homes. Maybe that's something we all don't need
to have, Emily, you sound absurd. Of course we need
to have that. That's that's what makes this country great, Emily,
this is America we're talking about. That's part of our
American exceptionalism is making sure that people with demonstrated violent
backgrounds can hoard weapons. I'm gonna use that quote someday
(19:26):
and I'll be like, she wasn't being sarcastic, folks, she
was being genuine I was. But yeah, A good first
step in tackling this is really more research. But here's
why that's not as easy as it sounds. The n
r A has backed an amendment blocking the CDC from
doing betterly funded research on gun violence. So when you're
hearing your politician go on TV talking about thoughts and
(19:49):
prayers and thoughts and prayers and thoughts and prayers, just
know that it is entirely possible that same politician has
taken money from the n ra A, the organization that
makes it harder for the CDC to study gun violen
unbelievable then, I mean, I knew the n r A
was powerful, but I forgot that they have barred our
Disease Control, our National Federal Center for Disease Control, from
(20:12):
even studying gun violence and the impact it has on
our country. That is disgusting. It is disgusting, and it
really goes to show the stranglehold that the n r
A has on our political system. And when I see
Marco Rubio go on TV and say, you know, this
is so sad thoughts and prayers, I am asking myself,
how much money did you get from the n r
if it's so sad? Get back that money almost a
(20:35):
million exactly. And this latest shooting, which happened on his
turf in his state, if he even has the audacity
to show his face there, I will be shocked because
the man has taken almost one million dollars from the
National Rifle Association exactly. So you can understand why it's
a little frustrating, and it's almost impossible for me to
take his words seriously. I'm sure he didn't want this
(20:58):
shooting to happen, but unless he does something, who cares
at these sends of thoughts and prayers. No, it's disgusting,
it's despicable. So if you want to take action and
make your voice heard on this regard right now, we
need citizen activists to step up. If we are ever
going to be able to fight back against the n
(21:18):
r a s stranglehold. We need everybody involved in this fight,
and fortunately every town dot org an organization that was
established after the New Town shooting. And if anybody has
gotten that close to making real progress on this issue
in the past, it was then with these organizers. They
have a five step plan for anyone who wants to
(21:39):
make their voice heard on this issue, and the first
is to take their pledge to vote on gun safety.
Know how much the n r A is donating to
the campaigns of politicians you're considering, and don't vote for them.
Vote out anybody who's been taking money from the n
r A. Step one. They also say, please get registered
to vote and make sure that your friends and family
(22:00):
are registered to We can vote these suckers out of
office if we don't like where they stand on gun
violence prevention, and we should do just that. They also
recommend attending a meeting to learn about the Gun Sense
Candidate Questionnaire that we can use to hold our leaders
accountable on election day. Basically, not everybody is very clear
about where they stand on gun violence everybody sounds like
(22:22):
we're all in it for the thoughts and prayers and
children and safety and YadA YadA YadA. It sounds nice
and dandy, and it's not always easy to find out
who's taking money from the n r A. But there's
a questionnaire that every town has created where you can
really get more information and use it to go to
events and ask your politicians. Ask folks who are running
for office where they really stand on the issues, and
(22:45):
their last recommendation is one I think is great. Run
for office your damn self. If you don't like where
your lawmakers stand on this issue, maybe you can do
a better job. Maybe somebody out there listening, has the skills,
has the power, has the drive to get us someplace
on this issue. Maybe it's you, sminthy listeners. So if
you don't like what your politicians are doing, get them
out of there and take their place. I love it.
(23:06):
I love it. And as a reminder, our friend Aaron
from Vote Run Lead was here with a bunch of
resources for how to do just that. If you haven't
heard it already, go check out our episode called eighteen
Is it Another Year of the Woman? Yeah? I know,
I started this episode talking about how I'm a bit
numb to gun violence and how it happened so often
that it almost doesn't register. And I think a lot
(23:27):
of people sadly feel that way. But I'm actually kind
of inspired because I think that this new generation cropping up,
they're not going to stand for this. And I really
think we're talking about a generation of young people who
are at the forefront of so many big political movements,
me too, DOCTA, immigration reform, all the major movements. I
think it's entirely possible that they won't stand for it.
(23:49):
Well they shouldn't. I mean, it's children, after all, who
are the victims in far too many of these massacres.
And David Hogg, one of the survivors from this most
recent shooting, put it so perfectly how he and his
peers and really all of us will not stand for
in action and are calling the grown ups in the
(24:12):
situation to action to get things done for the children
we proclaim to care about in this country. What we
really need is action. Because we can say, yes, we're
gonna do all these things thoughts and prayers, what we
need more than that is action. Please. This is the
one this year that's unacceptable. We're children. You guys like
(24:32):
are the adults. You need to take some action and
play a role. Work together, come over your politics and
get something done. So when you've got young people taking
grown as politicians to task, you know something needs to
be done. And smnty listeners, we are right there with them.
Please let's work together and figure out how we can
be better on this issue. Let us know where you
stand on this issue, what you're doing to make progress
(24:55):
on preventing gun violence, and how we can follow through
on David's call to action. Hit us up on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcast, find us on Instagram at stuff
Mom Never Told You, and, as always, our email inboxes
open at mom stuff, how stuff works dot com
Hey, this is Bridget and this is Emily, and you're
listening the stuff Mom ever told you. And as a
quick reminder before we dive into today's episode, Bossed Up,
the podcast is officially live in Apple Podcasts, so go
(00:28):
subscribe now if you are interested in keeping in touch
and getting some Bossed Up career advice and some personal
and professional development in your earbuds on a regular basis.
The podcast is debuting March first, but you can get
subscribed right now. Thank you so much for welcoming me
with such open arms as Bridget and I have taken
this journey together on stuff Mom never told you, and
(00:50):
I can't wait to hear where we go from here.
And now for today's episode, so right off the bat,
we have to start with a trigger warning. This episode
deals with gun violence. Sadly, the topic of mass shootings
is timely and it seems like it always is. On Wednesday,
at least seventeen people were killed during a school shooting
at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. The suspect,
(01:13):
nineteen year old Nicholas Cruise, was arrested on the scene.
You may have seen on CNN a mother, who lost
one of her children in this perfect shooting, pleaded with
Donald Trump to do something about gun violence in this country.
Here's what she had to say. How how do we
allow a gunman to come into our children's school? How
do they get through security? What security is there? There's
(01:36):
no metal detectors. The gunman, the crazy person, just walks
right into the school, knocks down the window of my
child's door and started shooting, shooting her and killing her.
President Trump, you say, what can you do? You can
stop the guns for getting into these children's hands. Oh
(01:56):
my god, I honestly do not know how anybody can
listen to the raw grief and and sort of carnal
plea in that woman's voice, that mother's voice that anybody
with children especially must be able to relate to, and
then go on and do nothing about it, or like
(02:17):
Donald Trump, not even respond to that. Well. I actually
think that as a country, we reached a moment where
we just decided this is our new normal. I think
after a new town, as a country, we just threw
up our hands. We decided this is our new normal.
Nothing can be done. We are numb to this issue.
Once we decided that babies could get shot at point
(02:37):
blank range and we were going to do a damn
thing about it. I think it became clear how our
country is reacting to this issue, and I think it
is not at all. You're not reacting at all. Yeah,
it feels like we've hit rock bottom. Do you feel
like that's true for politicians or the public or both both.
I think when babies get killed, I think that when
we as a country agreed that it was okay that
(02:57):
babies got killed, you have so many people weren't okay
with that. I feel like if it ever came close,
it was then people made their voices, heard, organizations sprung up,
people donated. Who I mean, the parents there got so involved,
and what happened was nothing happened, right. So I it
sounds so cynical, but I think that we just all
(03:17):
agreed this is our normal and this is our life,
said now, agreed to tolerate this In actual Yeah, we
decided it was tolerable. And that's what I find so
disgusting that we. I mean, listen, I'm including myself in
this that when I saw the news of this breaking
on Twitter, I just thought another one. I remember when
Columbine happened. You know, I was a teenager, I was
(03:38):
in school, and I remember the way that parents and
teachers and administrators that was a big deal. We were
all in a fervor. And now, so many years later,
it's so interesting how it barely even registers. Well, the
frequency has gone up so much that now we don't
even know the names of the schools. These mass shootings
no longer have individualized names. New Town was a standout
(03:59):
and a normal in that regard. The shootings that happened
nowadays happened so frequently that we can't even keep track
of them or or name them exactly. When you see
the name of a town trending on Twitter, you just
assume there was a shooting there, and it's just it's
I think it's our new normal, and it's really sad
and disgusting. So let's talk a little bit about what
happened in Florida. So Cruz, who is the perpetrator of
(04:20):
this attack, was described as a troubled student, the kind
of student that nobody was surprised would do this kind
of thing. In fact, he was so troubled that he
wasn't even allowed to carry a backpack to school. He
made threats on social media. His social media presence was
filled with pictures of dead animals and things that you
would see and think, oh, this kid could be a threat.
So it wasn't like he was someone who was hiding
(04:41):
in plain sight waiting to do something. He was on
people's radars, and according to the Anti Defamation League, he
had ties to white supremacist groups as well. Yeah, on
social media he hurled slurs at Blacks and Muslims and
really seem that the kind of person who should not
have access to gun right. In fact, the FBI received
(05:02):
a report and YouTube was reported to just five months
ago when he commented on a YouTube video saying that
he wanted to become a professional school shooter. The creator
of the video, which I think was about guns, flagged
the comment, alerted YouTube and emailed the FBI around it.
And despite the fact that his name first and last
(05:23):
was the user name that he was posting under on YouTube,
the FBI couldn't trace the lead back to anything. Wow,
that is horrifying. So all these traits seemed like the
typical mrkers of a would be mass shooter crews actually
shares another trait in common with most mas shooters. One
that often goes overlooked, and that is a history of
troubling and violent behavior toward women. In fact, you'll hear
(05:45):
an episode from US later this week about why it's
so horrifying that our White House, this administration seems to
be able to look past people with histories of violence
towards women as something that's just a personal matter and
not that big a deal. But this is a great
reminder that when we treat domestic violence or violence against
women as a personal matter and not a very serious
(06:08):
predictor of future potentially mass violence, but really violence in general,
we are doing the world a disservice. We are making
the world a less safe place, and allowing these kinds
of people to have easy legal access to guns is abhorrent.
Exactly what this whole situation underscores to me is how
(06:30):
not seriously we take violence against women and domestic violence.
And when researchers say, hey, violence against women can actually
be thought of as a risk factor for violent behavior
towards the general public later on, it just goes to
show why it's so critical to take domestic violence seriously,
and we're not. Well, it's interesting, right, because that argument
could also be warped into saying, is it not enough
(06:53):
that a domestic abuser is already violent towards a woman?
We have to validate the fear. We have to double
down on the relevance of that kind of violence by saying, also,
this could be a predictor of violence towards everybody. So
maybe that you'll care about it then, right, I mean again,
it goes to show that as a country when it
(07:13):
happens but behind closed door in a home, we just
think it's not our problem. But I think that there
needs to be a shift that domestic violence is everybody's problem.
So true, so so true. So Crewis apparently had a
history of violent and troubling behavior towards women and girls.
One of his classmates told USA Today that Crews had
ultimately been expelled from school after a fight with his
ex girlfriend's new boyfriend. She also said that he had
(07:36):
been abusive to one of his earlier girlfriends. Other students
have pointed out that he was taken with a female
student to the point of stalking. Yeah. I hate how
they phrased that in the press too. He was taken
with her so much he stalked her. No, he's doctor Yeah,
and that's according to his math teacher and another student
who had said that he was formally close friends with
Crews but cut off his friendship after he started going
(07:59):
after and threatening a female friend of his. Really, it
sounds like, in addition to a whole host of other
troubling factors going on in this kid's life that people
seemingly didn't do anything about, one of those factors was
violence and disturbing behavior toward women in his life. And
it turns out he's not alone. Let's talk more about
that after a quick break and we're back. So it's
(08:29):
probably unsurprising to you that the perpetrators of mass shootings
modern America are overwhelmingly male, but they overwhelmingly also have
a history of domestic abuse or misogynistic behavior toward women. Yeah,
we're talking about people like Omar Matine, the twenty nine
year old who killed forty nine people at the Pulse
nightclub tragedy in Orlando in two thousand and sixteen. He
(08:49):
had reportedly abused his former wife on a regular basis. Yeah.
And the Virginia Tech shooter in April two thousand and seven,
who gunned down thirty two people at a school was
previously accused of harassing women two years earlier, and the
Virginia police actually had to order him to stop contacting
another female student. I mean, honestly, time and time again,
(09:10):
every single time we see a mass shooting like this
one look into the typically male perpetrators background, and you
often see abusive, harassing, violent behavior towards women, along with
the whole host of other warning signs, including, by the way,
cruelty towards animals, which is certainly present in terms of
(09:30):
this particular most recent shooters background exactly. According to Business Insider,
nine out of the ten deadliest mass shooting perpetrators have
a history of threatening, committing, or verbalizing domestic violence. And
according to Every Town for Gun Safety, mass shooters killed
a partner or a family member intent of shootings. So again,
(09:51):
it means that this idea that domestic violence is something
that's happening in the home, you know, none of our business.
That kind of thinking allows people who really might have
the capability to do something on a wider scale to fester.
And what's especially troubling to me is how easy it
is for these folks to get firearms. It's really an
American form of exceptionalism in terms of our ubiquity of
(10:15):
firearms in this country and the ease with which people
can buy them. Technically, folks who have domestic violence backgrounds
on their record aren't supposed to be able to get firearms.
They're legally barred from buying guns in our country, but
many of them have been able to get high capacity firearms. Anyway.
(10:35):
There's a bunch of different loopholes that the n r
A in particular has been steadfast and maintaining um and
not closing that make it pretty damn easy. For instance,
a gun shows for people to get firearms without much
of a background check, and again that just goes to
show that we're not taking violence against women seriously as
a risk factor for MAS shootings. Take, for instance, the
(10:57):
case of Devin Patrick Kelly back into Them. He went
to the church where his wife worshiped and ended up
killing twenty six people. As a convicted domestic compuser, Kelly
wasn't even legally allowed to have access to firearms, but
he ended up owning four. How do we allow that
to happen in this country? I mean, I think it's
insane that almost anybody, including people with such violent backgrounds
(11:21):
or warning signs, or just a nineteen year old dude
in general can walk in and buy firearms that easily.
And I'm I'm someone who enjoys shooting guns on occasion.
By the way, members of my family are proud gun owners,
but none of them think that the way things currently
are is even remotely okay. And you know, I'm all
(11:42):
about the sportsmanship that comes with gun ownership. There's nothing
wrong with that, but at what cost? And certainly none
of us can say that the way things are is tenable.
I think that's why common sense gun laws really have
quite bipartisans support. The last time we did mass national
polling on is after Newtown, people on both sides of
the aisle agreed something needs to change. But the n
(12:05):
r A s choke hold on our politics is so
powerful it seems almost impossible to get anything done. You
hit the nail on the head. I think most reasonable
folks would say, if you are convicted for a violent
crime of domestic abuse, you should not be able to
get your hands on a gun. Going back to the
situation with Kelly, Kelly was a member of the Air Force,
which acknowledged that he kind of slipped through the cracks.
(12:27):
They say that it appears that Kelly's domestic violence conviction
was not entered into the National Crime Information Centered Database,
which is why he was able to pass a background
check for a gun. And to make things more terrifying,
this case is not that unusual. According to a Florida
International University report, the military mishandled roughly thirteen thousand domestic
violence cases between two thousand four and two thousand twelve,
(12:48):
including misclassifications that allowed abusers to go unreported in the
n c I S. So essentially, people who have convictions
for domestic violence who really should not have their hands
on guns can kind of get them in. This isn't
just isolated to military personnel. Spotty enforcement really does allow
abusers to fall through the cracks. All twenty eight states
and DC have laws prohibiting convicted domestic abusers from buying
(13:10):
or possessing firearms. Only fourteen states require those people to
give up the guns they already have. So if you
have a gun in your house and you get convicted
of domestic violence, it's a crapshoot whether or not you
are legally required to give up a gun that you
already have in your possessions. Well, not to mention, enforcement
of that law is extremely difficult. Literally, all that police
officers have to go on is someone else's report, like
(13:33):
an abused, strange ex wife or partner saying, yeah, he
has a firearm, a handgun. He keeps it under his pillow.
They knock on his door and say, do you have
a firearm. We've heard you have a handgun, we heard
you keep it under your pillow. Can you give it
to us? And literally they can say I got no
firearm here, and that's it. Stories over, It's insane. I
(13:56):
definitely think having convicted domestic abusers on the honor system
is probably a bad plan. Actually, there was a story
I was listening to about this on my new local
NPR station in Denver, Colorado, and granted this very state
to state, but in Denver, the police were saying, we
oftentimes have to get in touch with these typically men's mothers,
(14:18):
to ask their mothers to reason with them. Like God,
the world is a broken place. If police are asking
for the unpaid labor of abusers mothers to talk some
sense into their weapon wielding abusive sons, it's very depressing.
This is so fundamentally broken and in other countries when
(14:41):
things were this broken, they did something about it, and
they said, hey, no guns for you anymore in Australia,
or hey no civilian firearms in the UK, which is extreme,
and obviously we don't even need to be that extreme
to make progress here in the United States. But our
lack of action altogether is a global embarrassment, and it
(15:01):
seems uniquely applied to the issue of guns, because not
that long ago one guy tried to sneak a bomb
onto a plane in his shoe, and now we all
take off our shoes at the airport. So it's like,
why is it that when that happened we needed swift
change from the top down, And when it comes to guns,
it's just this sort of do nothing approach. It doesn't
make any sense to me. The Constitution, Yeah, I mean, okay,
(15:26):
the Constitution, but I'm sure when the Framers wrote the
Constitution they weren't imagining semi automatic weapons. People who go
back to that, I think, did you think that the
Framers had I'm just saying, if the Framers had made
an amendment about the right to where your shoes fair,
we'd have a bigger argument about that. But instead they
happen to write the right to bear arms, and here
(15:47):
we are with this cluster of an interpretation war over
what that really means. And I'm with you how to present,
there's no way that they were talking about semi automatic
rifles that could take down an elephant being freely available
to nineteen year old I'm sure this isn't that what
they had in mind, not that they were drafting the constitution.
(16:08):
So let's talk a little bit about what can be
done about this issue if you're piste off as we
are after this quick break and we're back. So it
actually turns out, Emily, just like you were saying before,
that keeping guns out of the hands of convicted domestic
abusers is one of those rare issues that Democrats and
(16:31):
Republicans kind of agree on. Senator John Cornyn of Texas said, quote,
there are enormous problems with the background check system. Even
Republican Senator Jeff Flake, who's now outgoing and speaking his
truth in a way that he has in a long time,
teamed up with Democratic Senator Martin Heinrich to introduce a
(16:52):
bill that would require the military to accurately record and
report domestic violence convictions and Republican governors in Utah, North Dakota, Wisconsin,
and Michigan have all taken steps to limit gun rights
for domestic abusers. So this does seem like an issue
that most folks are in agreement needs to be handled.
And what's more, keeping guns away from convicted domestic abusers
(17:14):
seems to be pretty effective. And despite my reference to
the NPR story that ran in Denver, experts agree that
those laws requiring abusers to surrender their guns are effective.
The states that have implemented these so called relinquishment laws
saw a fourteen percent decline and intimate partner gun homicides
(17:35):
according to researchers at Boston University and at Duke University exactly, So,
just to be clear, and the levels had a little bit.
In scientific terms, the link between domestic violence and gun
violence still remains anecdotal. Just because mass shooters are often
abusers doesn't mean that abusers are more likely to be
mass shooters. And one of the things that so troubling
about this is that this link really needs to be
(17:57):
studied more So, what you're saying is that it's a correlation,
not a causal link. We actually don't really know because
we don't really study this enough. These connections only become
clear in hindsight, which is pretty much too late in
the case of a mass shooting. And not to mention,
we'd really not like to have a sample size that's
big enough for us to study mass shooters in a
(18:18):
huge way, Like this is not a sample size that
we want to increase to get better data on. We'd
like to just solve this problem without having to have
four thousand mass shooters to study. That's the thing, though,
We already have so many mass shootings that if we
were able to study the data that is already out there,
we could probably get someplace on this issue. Susan B. Sorenson,
a professor at the University of Pennsylvania and director of
(18:40):
the Ordner Center on Family Violence, basically just says that
same thing. She says, right now, we don't have enough
data to have a pattern. The one thing that we
know that mass shooters all have in common is that
they have access to massive firepower. That is a single
unifying force. Just a thought, maybe we shouldn't make it
so easy to get semi automatic death machines in mass
(19:02):
to like hoard these kinds of violent killing machine objects.
In people's homes. Maybe that's something we all don't need
to have, Emily, you sound absurd. Of course we need
to have that. That's that's what makes this country great, Emily,
this is America we're talking about. That's part of our
American exceptionalism is making sure that people with demonstrated violent
backgrounds can hoard weapons. I'm gonna use that quote someday
(19:26):
and I'll be like, she wasn't being sarcastic, folks, she
was being genuine I was. But yeah, A good first
step in tackling this is really more research. But here's
why that's not as easy as it sounds. The n
r A has backed an amendment blocking the CDC from
doing betterly funded research on gun violence. So when you're
hearing your politician go on TV talking about thoughts and
(19:49):
prayers and thoughts and prayers and thoughts and prayers, just
know that it is entirely possible that same politician has
taken money from the n ra A, the organization that
makes it harder for the CDC to study gun violen
unbelievable then, I mean, I knew the n r A
was powerful, but I forgot that they have barred our
Disease Control, our National Federal Center for Disease Control, from
(20:12):
even studying gun violence and the impact it has on
our country. That is disgusting. It is disgusting, and it
really goes to show the stranglehold that the n r
A has on our political system. And when I see
Marco Rubio go on TV and say, you know, this
is so sad thoughts and prayers, I am asking myself,
how much money did you get from the n r
if it's so sad? Get back that money almost a
(20:35):
million exactly. And this latest shooting, which happened on his
turf in his state, if he even has the audacity
to show his face there, I will be shocked because
the man has taken almost one million dollars from the
National Rifle Association exactly. So you can understand why it's
a little frustrating, and it's almost impossible for me to
take his words seriously. I'm sure he didn't want this
(20:58):
shooting to happen, but unless he does something, who cares
at these sends of thoughts and prayers. No, it's disgusting,
it's despicable. So if you want to take action and
make your voice heard on this regard right now, we
need citizen activists to step up. If we are ever
going to be able to fight back against the n
(21:18):
r a s stranglehold. We need everybody involved in this fight,
and fortunately every town dot org an organization that was
established after the New Town shooting. And if anybody has
gotten that close to making real progress on this issue
in the past, it was then with these organizers. They
have a five step plan for anyone who wants to
(21:39):
make their voice heard on this issue, and the first
is to take their pledge to vote on gun safety.
Know how much the n r A is donating to
the campaigns of politicians you're considering, and don't vote for them.
Vote out anybody who's been taking money from the n
r A. Step one. They also say, please get registered
to vote and make sure that your friends and family
(22:00):
are registered to We can vote these suckers out of
office if we don't like where they stand on gun
violence prevention, and we should do just that. They also
recommend attending a meeting to learn about the Gun Sense
Candidate Questionnaire that we can use to hold our leaders
accountable on election day. Basically, not everybody is very clear
about where they stand on gun violence everybody sounds like
(22:22):
we're all in it for the thoughts and prayers and
children and safety and YadA YadA YadA. It sounds nice
and dandy, and it's not always easy to find out
who's taking money from the n r A. But there's
a questionnaire that every town has created where you can
really get more information and use it to go to
events and ask your politicians. Ask folks who are running
for office where they really stand on the issues, and
(22:45):
their last recommendation is one I think is great. Run
for office your damn self. If you don't like where
your lawmakers stand on this issue, maybe you can do
a better job. Maybe somebody out there listening, has the skills,
has the power, has the drive to get us someplace
on this issue. Maybe it's you, sminthy listeners. So if
you don't like what your politicians are doing, get them
out of there and take their place. I love it.
(23:06):
I love it. And as a reminder, our friend Aaron
from Vote Run Lead was here with a bunch of
resources for how to do just that. If you haven't
heard it already, go check out our episode called eighteen
Is it Another Year of the Woman? Yeah? I know,
I started this episode talking about how I'm a bit
numb to gun violence and how it happened so often
that it almost doesn't register. And I think a lot
(23:27):
of people sadly feel that way. But I'm actually kind
of inspired because I think that this new generation cropping up,
they're not going to stand for this. And I really
think we're talking about a generation of young people who
are at the forefront of so many big political movements,
me too, DOCTA, immigration reform, all the major movements. I
think it's entirely possible that they won't stand for it.
(23:49):
Well they shouldn't. I mean, it's children, after all, who
are the victims in far too many of these massacres.
And David Hogg, one of the survivors from this most
recent shooting, put it so perfectly how he and his
peers and really all of us will not stand for
in action and are calling the grown ups in the
(24:12):
situation to action to get things done for the children
we proclaim to care about in this country. What we
really need is action. Because we can say, yes, we're
gonna do all these things thoughts and prayers, what we
need more than that is action. Please. This is the
one this year that's unacceptable. We're children. You guys like
(24:32):
are the adults. You need to take some action and
play a role. Work together, come over your politics and
get something done. So when you've got young people taking
grown as politicians to task, you know something needs to
be done. And smnty listeners, we are right there with them.
Please let's work together and figure out how we can
be better on this issue. Let us know where you
stand on this issue, what you're doing to make progress
(24:55):
on preventing gun violence, and how we can follow through
on David's call to action. Hit us up on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcast, find us on Instagram at stuff
Mom Never Told You, and, as always, our email inboxes
open at mom stuff, how stuff works dot com
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.