May 20, 2020 • 52 mins
A not so long time ago, in a galaxy not far, far away, two podcasters came together to disucss the feminism of the original badass princess icon, Leia Organa from the Star Wars universe. Because Anney has been dreaming of this day for so long, it's a two-parter. In this one, we focus on our own experiences with Star Wars, the cultural impact of the original series, and the basics of Leia's character in A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Listen, or listen. There is no listen not. It's not a trap!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Smith and welcome to stuff
I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. I
am so excited right now. Yes, my heart is racing.
I couldn't sleep last night like this anticipation of what's happening,
(00:31):
because we're finally talking about a hero of mine, Princess
Leah and feminism and at this point this is where
like canons and like sparks should be going off all
the downt effects. I was like, could my brain is
like the death start exploding. That's what's happened there you go. Um, yeah,
(00:53):
this is the longest outline I've ever written. Um, it's
twenty one pages. I will say partially, I'm gonna say
it was my fault because I told you to have
at it. This is your project, this is your baby,
and do it so I and I think you held back.
I definitely held back. I definitely was like, at some point,
(01:15):
you're gonna have to stop or you might just die
here research I think I told you. I like, I'm
gonna need you to wrap it up now. Yeah, last
night a sense of anti text and I just had
circled like how long it was and how many tabs
I had left and she was like, oh God that
that was literally the only response I can give was
oh God, yeah, And I would. I would go in
(01:37):
to look at the outline while I'm working on one
thing to see where we were, and I know, like
day three was page nine and I was like, Oh,
we're gonna it was gonna be a long one. It
definitely is. Which mean is it? It's a two parter um.
So in this one, we're going to focus on the
(01:58):
basics of Star Wars, Princess Leiah through a new hope
and Empire strikes back. Yeah, we're pretty much sticking to
the original trilogy. Um. And then there'll be a good
finger and you'll have to wait to figure out what
we think about the medal bikini in Return of the Jedi,
and then the feminism of Leah and my own a
personal and the original on my thoughts of around Luke
(02:21):
Skywalker's feminism and the feminism of the Force. So right, um,
and before we start, just to let you know, we
did actually do a viewing social distance viewing of the
trilogy the originals the Originals, because I, too many people's chagrin,
(02:42):
have never actually watched a full Star Wars movie, and
I will say, if you know anything about the house,
stuff works, family Slash, I heart media family. There are
some die hards in here. I mean true, true die hards.
Holly Fry was very very appointed in the fact that
I had never seen one of these. She was very
(03:04):
forgiving but disappointed. I made sure that I let her know, yes,
guess what we're watching it. I feel like she was
pretty excited for us. Um, But yes, I have never
actually seen a full Star Wars movie. I've been around
it quite a while. You know, it's been out there
on random TVs at bars and restaurants because it is
played a lot. And of course I've seen it while
(03:26):
flitting past while channel surfing, but never fully committed to
watch any of these. I will say it was never
part of my childhood. It was never a part of
anybody in my family's childhood. I'm gonna blame the orphanage
that I was in for a while. We didn't watch
movies come on and and again, I'm a little older,
so I would have been right outside of when it
was popular. I think right before right after, you know
(03:49):
what I mean, Because it came out in the seventies.
Popularity hit again in the nineties, seventies, eighties, So it's
kind of all that time, um, and I will say,
after months, months of begging love actual studio. Yes, by
the way, all she did this whole really sweet video,
but how much she cared about me with an ending
(04:10):
that said please watch Star Wars essentially was what went down. Um,
And I think it was a bartering, like I always
got some free luggage out of this. I had a
step back, like that's cruel, that's me. But did she
was like, I watched whatever you want. I haven't decided
what that's going to be yet. That by the way, um,
that we finally finally committed to a day of marathon
(04:34):
ng in the midst of the pandemic. I mean, what
else am I gonna do? Right? Um? And so with that,
I decided to go ahead and write. So this is
what I wrote before she started the actual outline, y'all.
The twenty one page outline, Um, of my views of
what I knew of the movie before I watched the
actual movies. So I know Harrison Ford and he was
(04:56):
involved with this obviously, and the iconic Carrie Fisher was
an amazing woman. And of course Mark Hamill, you're crushed.
But with that, I know, Luke, I am your father
Chibaka and the dark side. Of course, I remember the
weird giant slime thing that for some reason in prisons
(05:17):
and grossly sexualizes Leia, and that there's a gold robot
R T D two. I know those letters oh know
why but I know those letters U. And of course
space in the future with lots of laser guns, which
apparently I found out later they don't know how to aim,
they don't know any work things. Um, and of course
laser swords. Uh. And I'm not gonna lie. I mixed
(05:42):
some of the scenes up with Spaceballs because I had
a roommate who loved that movie and also we would
watch that together. Um. And of course I mean John Candy.
He should have been in Star Wars, right, that was
a missed opportunity. Who doesn't love John Candy? Uh? In
this Uh, you know, I did go in thinking this
may make a break my relationship with any um, but
(06:04):
I will be here to tell you that it didn't.
Except there was. It was one of those moments when
the holiday special came on, I was like, what in
the hell is this? And why? I did question a
lot of things well that is fair. Um. One of
my favorite tweets from fellow podcasters stuff you should know.
(06:26):
They did a whole episode on the Holiday special and
it was something like no one can explain what happened
that night and it's infamously awful. Um yeah, yeah, I
I yes, we're still friends. We made it through. Um.
And I do love how this kept happening when we
were watching it too. Uh. We kept saying it's in
(06:49):
the future, but it's actually a long time ago, far away. Um.
And you did the thing. You got the line rugs,
it's true. I did. I I know is actually no,
I am your father. I got it now, I got
it now. But yes, as mini as we know, as
many have gotten that wrong, Luke, I am her father.
(07:09):
It's no, I am your father. But hey, I got it.
I've got that in my mind. Now that's a whole
it's a whole thing. There's been YouTube videos about why
we do that, so it's all good. And I also
had to get pretty good at translating Samantha's Star Wars speak. Um,
like goal, I don't think you ever got C three
p it. It It was always like gold Robot or gold
(07:29):
Man or gold Gold dude gold and then there's like
baby Jet, which was the why we so I had
to get good at that. UM. I will say, for me,
asking you to watch Showers is like a proposal. It's
my love language. It's like sharing a piece of my soul.
I was really nervous about it, Honestly, Um, I was
really nervous about doing this, even though I've had the
(07:52):
outline for like eight months. Um, I'm embarrassed by how
important it is to me, and then angry that I'm
embarrassed about it. Yeah, And I don't think you need
to be embarrassed at all, because, first of all, as
a good friend, you shared a part of yourself with
me that you love and I love that. Secondly, you're
really good at translating my Star Wars speak. You did
(08:14):
better than the partner who watched it with me, and
he was also excited that I was finally watching it.
And again, you're the one that convinced me to watch it,
not him. Just as a reminder, but yeah, I definitely
may have called the smaller jazz baby Jets. I may
have called a few robots baby robots, baby Goldman robots,
robot Man Dick. I called him at dick a couple
(08:35):
of temes like dude, that guy's a dick. He just
keeps running away. What's wrong with him? But yes, I
had to create nicknames shorthands in order for me to
figure out who was what and why and just again
just why. To be fair, that may have been more
with the holiday special of like what is happening and why?
(08:56):
But yeah, I digress, that is totally fair. I actually
like I saved my text message chain because I only
watched that for the first time like a year ago,
and I saved my text message change with my friend
and I love it. It's so funny because I also
had a similar action because people can prepare you, but
they can't really prepare you. It is that bad. Um. Anyway,
(09:21):
a brief rundown of my my experience with Star Wars
fandom because I actually don't remember a time having not
seen them. I saw the original trilogy when I was
four years old, and I love them, even if even
at four I was like, oh, I don't buy this
fourced thing. I don't think that's real. Um. They are
(09:41):
super nostalgic for me even watching them now. I remember
Obi one always my dad always quoted Obi One, and
I can't hear Obi One's voice without thinking about my dad.
Um doing Yoda and Darth Vader voices with my brothers.
I fell in love with my first cush Luke Skywalker.
I would pause the phrase even kiss his cheek. And yeah,
(10:03):
I'm gonna go ahead and put this out there for
anyone who may have a connection with Mark Hamill. Her goal, y'all,
her goal has been to get a tweet from Mark
Hamill or reaction. So we've gotta make this happen. We've
got this. We gotta make this dream come true. I
think I might. Actually I wouldn't die, but it would
be a close call, Like I think you would fall out.
(10:24):
I think you would fall out for sure. It's really
funny because I keep talking about like this scheme, and
my scheme is literally like tweet at him. Um. But
I do have this plan where I'm gonna recreate the
original trilogy from memory, which I've got that down. I think, Um, wait,
didn't you already start doing that? Did you say you
started it? I have been practicing perhaps, Okay, okay, I
(10:47):
feel like I heard that story. Oh yeah, it's it's
it's a work in progress and I'm gonna I have
costumes and perhaps and it's gonna be really silly and
hopefully fun. And I'm gonna release just chunks of it
every day on Instagram, because otherwise it would be ridiculous.
But maybe then Mark Cama will notice me in my
life will be complete and just and just. By the way,
as she talks about costumes, she's actually with I do this.
(11:11):
I'm in the Rebel X being fight suit flight suit
um and we will have pictures of those for sure. Also,
I talked to her an hour before we started recording,
and she was in another costume. She did a wardrobe
change before we start it. I did it all for you, Samantha,
And you know what, I appreciate it. I appreciate the
commitment and the love. And I know you're going to
(11:32):
say it's cosplay, but I think this is just your
life and I enjoyed that even more. You know, I'm
embarrassed to admit this, but I have spent more than
one night wondering what it means that my first crush
was Luke Skywalker and I'm dressing as my first crush.
I mean, enjoy it. I gotta take care of my
(11:53):
mental hell. Somehow I got this whole evolution of Luke
Skywalker cosplay. I'm probably just one of my goals is
week to wear a costume at work. And this is
the second time I've done it this week because I
was the winner Soldier earlier. So nailing it. You're right.
And if you didn't see our stories. She did do
the podcast with Movie Crush, you should check it out,
and she is in full costumes that she put on.
(12:15):
It wasn't a flashback she put on for that specific episode. Yes,
I think check thought I might have lost my mind
in Quarantine, but uh, um yeah, more about that later. Um.
So yeah, I had like all the toys and the
books and the games that we had the original vhs s,
and they I couldn't watch the last thirty minutes of
(12:36):
any of them because they were overworn. I think that
you would tell us this is the part that my
video stopped. I know, And it was always like right
at that epic climax, like, um, this is a for
younger viewers, who viewers listeners who might not know. Um,
this was the thing where if you watched a VHS
so much, the tape would get worn and you just
couldn't watch the rest UM and I Oh, I had
(13:00):
this board game that I love where you played along
with the vhs UM. It was like my favorite UM
and then UM my good friend Katie who is my neighbor.
She and I used to recreate um Jedi lightsaber battles
with the lights off and the music playing at a
Jedi training course. I created a fictional Star Wars character
(13:22):
when I was eight named Tara Polaris, which, by the way,
great name, Thank you, thank you, and I would go
dressed as her Halloween. People would be like, oh Obi
one cano be and I'd be like, uh, Tara Polaris,
thank you. Wait she and your fan fiction? Uh no,
(13:42):
she's not my current fan fiction, which by the way
is a hundred and eight page pages along you guys, um,
but she. I did write the Adventures of Tara Polaris
as an eight year old, and unfortunately I think they've
been lost in the Great Purge of high school, where
I burned everything that I'd ever written. No, no, I
would love to read about terror Hilaria's that's such a
(14:03):
good name. I feel like that should be a character.
Maybe I'll introduce her into my fan fiction. Actually, what
I wanted to do because I was going to read
a bit of my my Star Wars fan fiction. Um,
but it's all really depressing. I think the angst in
it could kill a person. So I was thinking that
I could put out the offer of listeners sending in
(14:25):
prompts and I will try to write something and maybe
we can read it. Uh. Is it gonna be like
I Choose your own adventure? No, I mean that it
could be, but in fan fiction usually like there'll be
one shot prompts like what if the twin swap is
a big thing in fan fiction. What if Luke and
Leah were swapped? What would happen in this scene? So
(14:48):
just putting that out there everybody. And I I had
like all the posters and stars. I had three thousands
of those sticky stars in my ceiling. I probably right
now I'm on a bit of a Star Wars bench.
And I think it does have to do with the
anxiety around quarantine and pandemic because it started right around then. Um,
(15:10):
and it is something that I find really nostalgic and comforting.
So once a week I watched something Star Wars related.
I mean, that's not a bad thing. And I just
tweeted actually in my own personal account about how there's
a research about during times of trauma, during people with
anxiety will rewatch a lot of things, which is absolutely me.
(15:31):
But I do want to call you out on one thing.
So during our adventures and watching these movies or marathon
in these movies, uh, they did turn on the Holiday Special, which,
by the way, apparently the version we had UH is double.
It was way long, right, so I think you had
like fifty minutes in our version was an hour minutes
(15:54):
and it was torture. So I was like, look halfway
through us stopped. It was like, I can't. I can't
do this. I'll be back, you know, when you're fit
to whatever. I leave, I come back and they have
restarted from the freaking beginning of the trilogies these movies.
I was like, what is happening? We just watched seven
and a half hours of this? What is going on?
(16:15):
It's really funny too, because when you came in I
didn't realize you remind us at first, and you you
said something, what are you doing? And I turned around
like a child had been caught doing something wrong. I said,
she is watching them? He was. Everybody was like what
it was quite embarrassing. Yes, it wouldn't have been embarrassing,
(16:36):
but I was just more in shock of like, are
you freaking kidding me? You guys, I don't know if
I've as much as I love things, I've never loved
something this much. Yeah, I've been thinking about this for
this episode, the level of love I have for it
um which I'm trying to going through some of it
right now. One of the last things Samanthan I did
(16:58):
before Quarantine was we went to Disneyland and we rode
the new ride Rise at the Resistance, and it's a
huge ordeal and I almost cried when I found out
we were going to get the right day. Okay, So
I'm gonna go ahead and interrupt you because I need
to talk about the overall process as well as the
level and the drama that ensued. So, first of all,
(17:21):
we were in l A to do a conference, and
of course while we were in l A, must go
to Disneyland. While we were in Florida, we went to
disney World, so it only made sense in preparation of
going to Florida. Of course, Annie had to uh talk
to our experts, Holly Fry, who, by the way, if
(17:42):
you're not following her Twitter account, you should because she
has daily up days of her love for Star Wars
as well, including all the mini dresses that she has
made in clothing she has made in dedication to Star Wars.
It is hardcore and amazing senior. Yes, yes, so all
of these things. Um. So she Annie decided to get
(18:05):
the best strategic way on getting this ride. And if
you don't know about this ride, you can't just get
on it. You have to reserve, and you have to
reserve way in advance or you were not going to
ride that ride. And not only did we get to
the park two hours before it opened and very cold,
and it was so cold, um that we also walked
(18:29):
in before the actual park open. You get to go
into the entrance is just pretty much stand there and wait.
You could see a crowd of people not only us,
holding their phones out and in getting ready for whatever
this reservation system was. So as it opens immediately and
he's like, Okay, you gotta do this, this and this,
all three of us, because there's three of us got
(18:50):
ready and did the thing. Now as they did the thing.
I know that was very flippant, but it was a
whole thing by the way, um, you have to download
the app, get to this ride, reserve on this ride
as a crew whatever whatnot. Annie is watching and as
we sit there and one of us finally shouts, we
got it. Not only does Any and the entirety of
(19:11):
the Disney crowd let out this in the middle of
nothing like You're like, what is happening? But Any turns
around away from us in silence and turns back around
and just like, oh my god, I can't believe. I
just can't believe. Oh my god. And I see tears
in her eyes and I'm going, oh my god, Any,
(19:32):
are you are you crying? Are you crying? And you
were like, no, yes, it's just so good. It's just
gonna be so good. And in anticipation of the fact
that we were actually going to ride the ride, and
I will say, it is a really good ride. My
own Donald wasn't it. And I didn't know he was
a bad guy in the New York movies. I still
love him as fine, I'm a fan, but it wasn't.
(19:55):
Oh gosh, I forgot. I also got yelled at one
of the stormtrooper dude because I couldn't figure out how
to follow a line. It was quite funny. I'm traumatized
by that moment. I'm not gonna lie. I feel like
those guys are coming to give me. He blamed you.
The rebellion was losing, the resistance. Yeah, but yeah, the
(20:15):
reaction on your face, the reaction on the crowd. In
the crowd was so big. I was actually taken aback. Yeah,
it was wild. It was wild because it was like
total silence for thirty seconds and then screaming the shouts,
the shouts of celebration was unreal. Um and the level
(20:38):
I've reached this I now fantasized, like legitimately fantasized about
getting to see these movies without knowing the ending of
Return of the Jedi. Uh. Like I've read old speculation
articles about how people thought it was going in What
did it mean? Luke was wearing all black, He's gonna
turn evil? And I interview my older friends about it.
Tell me what was like, what did you think was
going to happen? And I wanted so badly. Yeah, and
(21:03):
even as a person who never actually watched or cared
about these movies previously, I still knew how it ended.
So yeah, that's definitely a thing as iconic as these
movies are, it's inevitable you kind of know what's going
to happen. Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna talk about that,
uh for for a minute, just the cultural impact these
movies have had and why it's important that we're talking
about it. Um. I did want to throw in there
(21:25):
because yes, I was recently on movie crush for The
Winter Soldier. I'm going to be on their next for
The Empire Strikes Back. Um that I have been annoying
Samantha with my new belief that there, in many ways
the same movie. I've just been texting or like evidence
I find I did. I recently discovered the Sebastian Sandmark
Camel viral thing, which I'm really surprised by because I
(21:47):
even I saw that. I don't know how I missed it. Um,
and and a new hope. The first one slashed. The
fourth one came out on May twenty, which is the
same day The Winter Soldiers true identity as Bucky was
revealed in the comics and the day Mike parents got married,
so special day and also Holly Holly's birthday. Um, yeah,
super fan experts. She's not super fan, she's a like
(22:10):
Star Wars expert. Oh god. Yeah. We were joking that
we need to make a chart of like the level
of Star Wars fandom. She's the top, Yeah, I'm you're
the middle. Yeah, and even like I think of my
partner who also loves it, I was like, no, you
don't meet any You're you're you're a little lower than her.
And then myself, I was like, I'm at the bottom,
and like, well, I can't say I'm at the bottom anymore.
I finally watched it, so now I'm a novice. Yes, yes,
(22:33):
ance Ji Patawan as they say, which I still don't
know what them that's okay or do not there is
no try so yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of where
we are on our levels of fandom. And today I'm so,
so so excited to talk about Lea or Gana a k.
Princess Leiah. We are mostly going to focus on the
(22:54):
original trilogy because um, we talked about Leah and the
new trilogies, slashed the sequels and our feminism of Star
Wars episode which I think came out two years ago
on May the fourth, of course, but we'll touch on
that for sure because there are a lot of interesting
things and conversations we had. And as a kid, I
totally loved her, um, which was a big deal because
(23:14):
I'm kind of ashamed to admit this. But usually, like
I was fine with female characters, but they were never
my favorite or didn't even necessarily like them really, And
I think that might be because female characters aren't written
as well often. UM. But I loved her and I
thought she was so funny and smart and brave. And
I did love her hair. I thought it was awesome.
She good hand, she did uh. And I asked my
(23:37):
friend Katie, who I've mentioned she was like my Star
Wars partner in crime, UM, and I asked her what
she could remember of Princess Leah as a kid, and
she wrote me back. I thought that she was beautiful.
I loved her white dress. I thought she was badass
and returned the Jedi. I loved when she was the
bounty hunter. I did think it has to mean for her.
I remember liking her voice and how precise she was
(23:57):
when she said her words. I hated the needles scene.
A needles seeing is very scary, yes, um. And we
have talked before about the importance of costuming in our
feminism of Star Wars episode. And I do think there's
something to be said for the fact that most of
her costumes are functional but also feminine. Don't worry. Yes,
we're going to talk about the middle of the KINNI.
(24:18):
Oh my god. Um. And I also forgot to mention
that in the original ending returned the Jedi handaes and
Luke becomes Darth Vader in orders the destruction of all
the rebellion and listeners. Just so you know, she did
tell me this during the movie viewing. Oh god, I
only recently found that out, and I blew my mind. Yeah.
I think there were so many things that you were
(24:38):
talking about, including the transition for loose outerwear, like this
is the best way to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
So there was a lot of conversation that was had
between my partner and Annie, and there are so many
things that I'm like, I don't know what is happening,
but this nerd out is amazing from Afar and also annoying.
(24:59):
I don't know what to do right now. I'm both
impressed and annoyed. We're endearing but annoying. I it was
so endearing. I was like, oh, I love that they
have each other to talk about this, but what is happening, Well,
it's probably all the rest of this episode will go
so apolitics and advance. I did want to talk about
the cultural impact of Star Wars because this is something
(25:22):
that's been on my mind since we read Whiskey Ribbons
for a book club and there were all these Star
Wars references in it, and I got me to thinking
what it must be like to be a part of
something that big, where you could just be reading something
I never would have imagined there would be multiple Star
Wars references in that book. Um, where a character you
played or story or part of is just kind of ubiquitous.
(25:44):
And so I actually started making a graph keeping count
of all the Star Wars references I encounter every day
where I'm not like, not expecting to find them or
hear them. And it's between five and ten. I'm gonna
make a chart and I'm going to post it is great.
So I got asked, it is three thirty today. We've
been recording since too. How many references thus far before
(26:07):
this six? Wow? Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. It really is
stunning how many It just pops up and I'm like, oh, hey,
there you go. Um I think it was dead Eye,
Dead Eye mine trick? Uh and is the last one
I heard today? Um? So, in case you somehow don't know,
(26:28):
Star Wars is the science fantasy space opera franchise created
by George Lucas of currently eleven movies, TV shows, books, comics, toys,
video games, theme parks, dedicated conventions, radio dramas, music parodies,
musical parities, allah weird out, and documentaries. It's been involved
in science politics, pretty much everything that you can imagine,
(26:49):
and inspired a massive fan community the memes. The memes
are cosplay. Fan fiction experts have written about our Wars
as an American mythology, inspiring people to create their own thing.
It's now owned by Disney and has an estimated net
worth of seventy billion dollars and holds the Guinness World
(27:12):
Record for most successful film merchandizing franchise. When the original
Chilgy came out, beginning with a New Hope in nineteen
seventy seven and followed by The Empire Strikes Back in
nineteen eighty and Return of the Jedi in three it
changed Hollywood. It revolutionized special effects. I annoyed Samantha with
the paper I wrote in fifth grade all about the
(27:33):
secial effects of Star Wars and the Nike shoe that
they for some reason took out a Return of the Jedi.
She did mention when it was and where it was.
I was like, it was back there, and things like
industrial light and magic still around today came out of this,
and sound effects systems that we still use and for
better or worse, because you will find people that I
(27:55):
really think this was the end of cinema, the understanding
that you could make more form, more orchandizing than the
films themselves. It also introduced the idea of toy sets
and collectibles. It was the first blockbuster series. It started
the whole trend of having summer blockbuster releases. It modeled
the trilogy story structure and was the first to contain
(28:17):
many genres in one movie. The plot twist Uh and
the Empire Strikes Back as one of the most influential
plot twist in history, and a New Hope was the
first to surpass the three million dollar mark adjusted for inflation.
It's still one of the highest grossing movies of all time,
and it revitalized interest in space based entertainment, making way
for the Star Trek motion picture series and one of
(28:39):
my other faves that Smantha was also very patient with
me about alien Um, among so many other things. Some
comic experts say the popularity of the Star Wars comics
single handedly saved Marvel. It goes beyond that too. Harry
Potter was influenced by Star Wars so many things. Um,
they came out during a time when there was all
(29:01):
these feelings of hopelessness, and the stories of the time
reflected that the stories that people were watching in movie theaters,
but not Star Wars right. So again, by the way,
these are all any research things, and I just wanted
to be in here for a voice because her love
for it. There's no way I could ever imagine. So
from findango dot com and it's forty years of existence
(29:24):
as an entertainment property, it has also become a cultural
entity unlike any other, a phenomenon that has probably influenced
pop culture more than anything else in our time. Contributing
editor at Wired, Daniel ny Griffith's wrote, and maybe one
of a million universes does George Lucas combination of narrative
structure of a fairy tale with model making an aesthetic
(29:46):
of a downbeat, broken future sci fi movies of the
seventies even get made in one out of ability that
turns out to be the most successful independent creative enterprises
of all time. I think of that a lot, because
I know we all have heard the stories of the
actors coming on set and seeing like a walking trash
can and thinking out, my career is ruined. But you
(30:07):
told us about Harrison Ford trying to leave several times
and then coming back. Well, and it totally influenced the
plot of the movies. That's why the carbonite scene exists. Um,
I can see it like just all of these things
had to turn out correctly, and amazingly they did, or
else it could have been a very ridiculous little like
slop right. And by the way, during the movie, the
(30:29):
entirety of the time, while Annie was talking about this
is what was happening, this could have been what happened.
My partner was like, this is where they put c
G I AT backwards and they didn't need to do this,
and they made this. So it was a really interesting
context from a person who has ever seen it for
them to tell tell me how it changed. Yeah, and
it's so we were watching the Disney Plus version um
and for people and they know like Star Wars has
(30:51):
been changed so many times, and I actually, I really
really want to see the original cuts without all the
changes so badly, and I think maybe it'll happen for
me soon, very sited uh. Former Wired dot Co UK
writer Michael Rundell wrote, I'm fascinated by Star Wars because
of what a world without Star Wars would look like.
No Star Wars means no Lucas Films or Lucas Arts.
Would there still be a golden age of video games
(31:12):
without Monkey Island, Full Thottle or Salmon Max. One of
the many incredible things about Star Wars is that every
time you think you've mapped out every aspect of how
different a world without Star Wars would be, you think
of something else. Fan are not. Star Wars is a
part of you, and you are a part of it.
Like the travels of Odysseus, the ravages of our ancient
meddlesome gods, the trials of Superman, and the heroic journeys
(31:33):
of Mario, you can't avoid it, right. The original trilogy
told the classic tale of good versus evil heroes journey
following Luke Skywalker Leah Organa in Han solo as they
fight the Evil Empire. They won numerous awards, including Oscars,
and regularly rank among the top ten movies of all
time across multiple publications and market surveys. Darth Vader is
(31:57):
one of the most memorable villains of all time. I
think it also has something to do with James Earl Jones,
absolutely for sure. And Luke Skywalker is so iconic that
he's often used to teach the hero's journey in school,
and it's used in child's psychotherapy to make things understandable
between both child and therapists, framing the force as self
healing and the child is Luke and themselves as obi one,
(32:21):
which is a really big assumption. It's supposed to be like,
one day you won't need me anymore and you will
be able to do this with the force on your own.
I don't think that's true. Um okay, well, we have
a lot more to go over, oh my gosh, but
first we're gonna pause for a quick break for word
(32:41):
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. So
just a broad overview of some culture things you've got
(33:02):
when it comes to Star Wars. You've got sayings down worldwide,
even if people don't know where they come from, like
Jedi mind trick. You're my only hope. May the Force
be with you. I am y'all follow the Evil Empire,
and then you've got the holidays, May the Fourth be
with you and Revenge of the Fifth, which, by the way,
we watched four May the Fourth, Yes we did. It's
a celebration. It was a celebration for some um and
(33:23):
in two thousand one UK survey, almost four hundred thousand
people wrote in Jedi as their religion and making it
the fourth largest religion. Oh well, there's a church of
jeddi Ism and in Texas there's a registered Church of
jeddi Ism, which, by the way, are you part of
the no? I don't know if there's like a test second,
(33:44):
just checking Samantha um and then songs I always think
of for me, Run the Jewels, Skywalker talk because I'm
the real Darth Vader. I think that's from Banana Clipper
Bana clip Um Lutin Clan, Kanye West, BC Boys Linkinny
to Justin Bieber The Nerve Herders, which is a band
named after the Star Wars insult, and they played the
theme song for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So you got
(34:07):
all these like musical references too, and the music itself
from the movie is amazing and iconic. Um many view
it as one of the best movie scores of all time.
I think we try to plot away to get that
Darth Vader slash Star like, like you know this is
gonna happen. Someone's gonna die soon. Yeah. I'm actually a
(34:28):
member of the John Williams fan club and I have
been since fifth grade that I know, so it obviously
also influenced art. Banksy has used Star Wars imagery in
his own art. Other movies have it replicated Star Wars
posters like National Lampoons Vacation and European Vacation. And in sports,
Major League Baseball gets in on May the Four celebrations,
(34:48):
encouraging costumes and theme to give their ways. I've definitely
been to those. The Yankees are known as the Evil
Empire during this and they play the Imperial March at
their home games. And then as you say that, I
can hear the song on my head even though I've
not watched the movie but once also in politics, so
the same year Return of the Jedi came out in
nine three. Star Wars got wrapped up in Reagan's Strategic
(35:11):
Defense initiative, which was a system of ground in space
based lasers and missiles meant to protect against a nuclear attack.
Critics called it Star Wars, which Reagan of course leaned into.
Reagan also called the USS are the Evil Empire, and
at one point the U. S Military had an idea
to create a First Earth battalion made up of folks
(35:32):
who could walk through walls, be invisible, see the future,
and killed goats with a look m and they were
called Jedi Warriors. I definitely couldn't let go of the
fact that every single bad guy had an odd Russian accent. Yeah, well,
it's funny too, because I love that Carrie Fisher was
able to joke about this herself later. But Leah has
(35:55):
kind of a strange English accent. In a New Hope
it goes away, um And yeah, even a few weeks ago,
this happened when Trump's campaign manager compared Trump's campaign to
the Death Star, seemingly not realizing that one, the Death
Star is bad and it's for the bad guys, and too,
it always gets destroyed. Um. You got a very big
(36:18):
Star Wars schooling from the Internet for that and uh,
A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back have been
added to the National Film Registry by the Library of
Congress for being quote culturally historically are aesthetically significant right
just their own like beginning montage with the writing the
script you know what that is? Um, and science. Star
(36:43):
Wars has played a role in actual science. For instance,
when well I am in correspondence appeared on CNN as holograms,
one of the correspondents said, it feels like I follow
in the tradition of Princess Leia. Bionic arms like those
supported by Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. Some of them
are named after Luke Skywalker. Uh. A company out of
Hong Kong made a pretty spot on lightsaber. The military
(37:03):
is working on a T a T like machines, which
are the big snow creature things that they knock over
with their harpoons. Um. Yeah, I just call them the
monster things. I got you, I got you, Samantha. Uh.
And then there's a death star bug zapper right. In
the popular Smithsonian Star Wars exhibits. Star Wars The Magic
(37:26):
of Myth lives online and the millennium Falcon was the
inspiration by the name of Elon Musk's Falcon series lauge vehicles,
which yes, you could absolutely see that in and several
organisms have been named after Star Wars terms and characters. So, okay,
it's a big deal, that's what we're trying to say,
mostly me and Samantha supporting me. Um. It's not without
(37:48):
its faults. Obviously, there's hardly mean people of color, like
it's pretty much the only woman in the regionals and
that isn't much better in the prequels sexualization. There's definitely
talks about fandom. I think it might be one of
the most toxic fandoms UM. And we've talked about that
before specifically now in a lot of mostly men, feel
that the new ones are made by social justice warriors
(38:09):
with the social justice warrior agenda. UM. Some cinophiles, do
you feel like it ruined cinema forever because we pivoted
away from what in their mind is artistic films too,
movies that make a lot of money for children. Um.
But in a lot of ways it connected with so
so many of us and for a lot of girls
and women Princess Leia specifically was a feminist icon, and
(38:33):
we'll get into that after a quick break for word
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. So
that's finally arrived, Princess Leiah, and thank you for letting
(38:56):
me indulge in my Start Wars fandom and continue, because
just like you can't separate that out the influence of
Star Wars from our culture, you really cannot separate the
enormous influence of Princess Leiah on our culture and the
influence she had on countless other fictional characters, from Ellen
Ripley to Hermione and Granger to Captness Everdeen, so many
(39:21):
um so general sketch of her. Leah Organa is the
princess of the planet Alderan, a member of the Imperial Senate,
and the leader of the Rebel Alliance. This is all
by the time she's nineteen, just a f y I
according to George Lucas. She also has the Star Wars
equivalent of a pH d uh huh. Through the series,
we learned that she has the twin sister of Luke
(39:41):
Skywalker and daughter of Darth Vader. She was raised by
Senator Bail Organa and Queen Brea Organa. She goes on
in the new trilogy to found the Resistance as a
general against the First Order. She was played by Carrie
Fisher and the character has appeared in many books, comic
television shows, games, and she has gone on to become
(40:04):
iconic the cinnamon bun hair style, which George Lucas attributes
to a hair style of female Mexican revolutionaries of the
metal bikini, and has been adopted by many as a
feminist icon. She's been parodied, celebrated, and appeared on staffs
in the US and the UK, and she's appeared on
(40:24):
all sorts of merchandizing in all sorts of merchandizing. After
Disney acquired Star Wars, they had to backtrack a statement
that there were no plans for Princess Leia merchandise after
it caused so much backlash, so much backlash. Um, there's
still not as much as there should be, but um.
Carrie Fisher allegedly was told she had to lose ten
pounds for the role, which is gross and totally still happens.
(40:46):
For the new series, she was reportedly pressured to lose
thirty five pounds. I've been told something like this more
than once. So this is still absolutely a thing. Oh,
absolutely agism And then of course wait in all those
things and race um and Fisher has spoke openly about
how she regrets signing away her likeness, which wasn't really
(41:07):
a thing at the time. She told the Daily Base,
there's no merchandizing Tied two movies. No one could have
known the extent of the franchise. Not that I don't
think I'm cute or anything, but when I look in
the mirror, I didn't think I was signing away anything
of value. Lately, I feel like I'm minnimouth. The identity
of Princess Leiah so eclipsed any other identity that I've
ever had. Yes, I could see that. Yeah, that sounds
(41:31):
like she lost a lot of money. Oh yeah. She
She even said like she's kind of very I don't know,
good natured, but you know, she's got her classic funny
view on it. But she said, she said, if she
found out that Dadly Apartment was making merchandizing, she'd be
really mad for cooing amidala um. Leia's part diplomat, spy,
(41:52):
soldier leader. She's passionate, she's carrying brash, loud, strong, defiant, assertive, angry, snarky,
not afraid to speak her mind and fight for what's right.
She first appeared as Yeah, nineteen year old in a
New Hope in a virginal floor length address that's absence
of cleavage, although Fisher recounted George Lucas telling her not
(42:12):
to wear a bra with it because quote, there is
no underwear in space, because your body expands but your
broad does not, and it would strangle you. So Fisher
used to joke she wanted it reported that. However, she died. Uh,
it should be reported I drowned in moonlight, strangled by
my own brawl. Um. And that was a very popular
tweet after she did die. Um. It's immediately established that
(42:35):
Princess Leiah is not going to shy away from a blaster,
and later we find out that her actions at the
beginning of the movie saved the entire rebellion. This the
only force that was opposing the empire. She is captured
by the intimidating Darth Vader, but stands up to him
and withstands. His torture doesn't reveal anything, so she used damsel,
but she's still fighting and she's still making these snarky comments.
(42:58):
And when she is ascued, she pretty quickly takes charge.
She literally takes the blaster from Luke's hands and comes
up with a plan to get them out, jumping into
a smelly, disgusting garbage disposal, which is hardly a traditional
princess decision. She also immediately sees through Luke and the
stormtrooper get up. When he says he's here to rescue you,
(43:20):
she's like, Nah, is very unimpressed with him, and they're
poorly thought out escape plan. And I do love thinking
about like Luke, who's bringing is full of adventures, envisions
himself as the hero coming to save the beautiful princess.
He says he's here to rescue her, and she's like,
excuse me, you're who now, kind of immediately shutting him down. Um.
(43:42):
And I also love that her leadership in general isn't
questioned as a woman, Like it's never like, oh, we
shouldn't listen to her because she's a woman. It's more
Han being like, I don't listen to anybody, um right.
I do like the back and forth with Han and
the Han being and like, what what's happening? Who are
you what's happening? So before that happens, her planet is
destroyed by the Death Star to make a statement, and
(44:05):
I was like, oh my, yeah, they blew up a planet,
which has happened, um And in an instant she loses
her family, her friends, her stuff, her home and this
could have destroyed her, but it didn't. Alissa Rosenberg at
The Washington Post wrote about her, Leiah's nerves as a
revolutionary are clear from the moment she arrives on the screen.
She takes shots at the stormtroopers boarding her ship, it
(44:26):
gets stunned with a blaster in her hand, then has
the audacity to try to make Darth Vader feel ashamed
of himself. She has enough energy left over after a
nasty session of torture to insult Grandmoth Tarken. And while
she grieves when her home planet all around, is destroyed
by the desk Star, Leia is not paralyzed when her
unexpected rescuers show up. She's ready to go and to
gripe about their operational sloppiness. And then she went on right.
(44:49):
Leiah wasn't just the first great heroine of science fiction
and fantasy to capture my imagination. She was one of
the first characters I encountered whose power came from her
political conviction an acumen. So when Hans, Jerry, and Luke
do arrive to rescue her, she pretty much instantly assert
her authority and she um. This leads to conflict between
(45:10):
her and Han Solo, who isn't used to having someone
tell him what to do. He calls her sweetheart, but
Leah is totally impervious to his attempts to take control.
She also proves she's got more savvy and less bravado
than Han after they escape and she surmises their being
tracked by the Empire who let them go, and Hans like, no,
not this ship never because he's too cocky to admit it. Um,
she's right, he's wrong. Despite the tragedy she's gone through,
(45:34):
she assumes leadership in rebellion and also look Lucas McCreesh,
I know he's had a rough time. Leiah comforts him
after Obi one dies, but Lea just lost her home
planet and she knew Obi want to by the way,
uh and we never get to see her grieve. And Okay,
I know people like to fight about this because I
(45:55):
said it on another show, and man um that she
grieved off screen and Luke did lose his guardians, which
was very sad and traumatic. I agree, but but it
was also very quickly passed by. Wait that was it? Yeah.
He kind of just as like, well, I'm leaving now, um,
And I don't judge people for how they grieve. That's
totally cool. UM just saying, uh, you know, we don't
(46:20):
get to see your grief because I guess it's not
technically her story. It's explored some of the in the
Extended Universe legends. I will say the wout the movie.
She takes everything with like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, let
me keep going. Like that was like very much like that.
Seems like she should be a pause of some sort. Well,
(46:41):
we'll talk about that more in a minute. Well, now
we'll talk about with that more in part two, because
a lot of people gripe about the return of the
Jedi reveal. Um. I see her as someone who takes
things and stride right. But anyway, also of the characters,
Lay perhaps has the least of an arc, and a
part of that is she is the most sure of
in herself and her calling. When we're introduced to her,
(47:02):
Her biggest thing is learning to accept that she has
needs and wants on a personal level and embracing those things.
Han and Luke have a lot of growing up to do,
and Leia is instrumental in that for both of them.
Even at the heart of it, she influences Luke and
Hand to become a part of the rebellion. She's already
a hero when we meet her, Um, and she influences
them to become heroes too. She does often serve as
(47:25):
a support to Luke's story and to Han's story. And
then the first two is the potential romantic interest for
both of them. Um. She's more developed and interesting a
character than perhaps her traditional love interest, but there is
still an element of that. All right, So new hoping
is big explosion, dest star, Happy, pure are your medals.
(47:49):
Then we move on to The Empire Strikes Back, in
which Leiah is a prominent leader of the rebellion who
stays behind to the very last second to make sure
everyone is safely evacuated off of the snow plane it off.
We see her relationship with Han, and in today's context,
it's a little cringe e um, just because he's so
pushy and doesn't take no for an answer. Uh, I
(48:11):
definitely want to return to the whole nice men's scoundrel
trope that plays out here. And it is kind of
funny that she's trying to manage all of all of
the stuff, all of this evacuation, and Han is just
trying to get her to admit that she cares about him.
And I know the stakes are high because he's basically
trying to get her to admit he wants him to
(48:34):
say her he's gonna leave. But anyway, there's a definite
unthawed the ice queen vibe too. And Lando was pretty
flirty with her, although Lando is the type flirts with everyone.
My friend and I have an ongoing argument about whether
or not he had sex at the Millennium Falcing weigh
in on that if you would like or don't, you're
(48:55):
just gonna say that's the first thing she saw, it
said when he arrived, and I was like, I don't
know what's happening, but we had like an hour fless
long argument about it. Oh, and Lando is also trying
to make sure they don't get win that Vader's there,
so he's trying to endear himself to them. But uh,
we do see another instance of a woman sensing that
something is wrong and being dismissed when Lana voices her
(49:17):
concerns about Lando's trustworthiness. Um, Han land Chewy are captured
and tortured by Darth Vader that you only really see
Hans torture and I guess Chubaco with a loud sound thing.
Wait in the gold dude, old man gets blasted apart. Yeah,
I was like, what is what? Did no one notice
(49:37):
that Chubaka did? He did? He did? He came back
and Lead did too. Han was the one that was like,
um and then we have the famous I love you,
I know exchange. So there are so many ways to
interpret this, but one is that in the face of
hans death, she admits something she knew, She made him
doubt that she loves him, and he acknowledges his understanding
(50:00):
her fear of intimacy and accepts it as a kid.
I always saw it as Hans Solos two afraid to
say it in front of all these soldiers and Darth Vader.
But you know, multiple ways to interpret those those lines.
Some people take issue with the fact that Han asked
you to take care of her when clearly she can
(50:21):
do it herself, while others see those words as meant
to comfort Chewi, to give him something to you, to
calm him down. Um. When Lando frees them, Leah takes
charge of the ultimately failed attempt to save Han and
does save Luke after sensing his call for help. And
would you get to see her pilot the Millennium fucking
which is cool? Yeah, yeah, it was very cool. Um,
(50:44):
I think I'm not gonna lie. I was very confused
about what was happening, and you made sure to let
me know that this is where Harrison fords it, I'm
not coming back, so they had to have a possibility
of just ending him or allowing him to come back. Well,
the only reason he came back to Return of the
Jedi was he was supposed to be killed off and
then they didn't do it. There you go. Yeah, yeah,
(51:06):
So I'm going to end it here with the end
of part one, our heroes, your heroes, the heroes, how
about that, are battered and separated and in part two, yes, y'all,
after an hour of this lengthy discussion, there is a
part two and it's about the Return of the Jedi
and the infamous Metal Bikini, which is the one thing
(51:28):
that I know, and the feminism of Princess Leiah and
of the Fourth in general. Yes, so we'll leave you
on a cliffhanger, just like those lucky viewers that got
to see Empire Strikes Back and didn't know what happened
in Return of the Jedi. So look out for that
episode in the meantime. If you want to email as
you can, Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at
(51:51):
iHeart media dot com. You can also find us on
Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You or on Twitter
at Momster Podcast. Thanks as always to your superproducer Andrew Howard,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told
You as a production of I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Smith and welcome to stuff
I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. I
am so excited right now. Yes, my heart is racing.
I couldn't sleep last night like this anticipation of what's happening,
(00:31):
because we're finally talking about a hero of mine, Princess
Leah and feminism and at this point this is where
like canons and like sparks should be going off all
the downt effects. I was like, could my brain is
like the death start exploding. That's what's happened there you go. Um, yeah,
(00:53):
this is the longest outline I've ever written. Um, it's
twenty one pages. I will say partially, I'm gonna say
it was my fault because I told you to have
at it. This is your project, this is your baby,
and do it so I and I think you held back.
I definitely held back. I definitely was like, at some point,
(01:15):
you're gonna have to stop or you might just die
here research I think I told you. I like, I'm
gonna need you to wrap it up now. Yeah, last
night a sense of anti text and I just had
circled like how long it was and how many tabs
I had left and she was like, oh God that
that was literally the only response I can give was
oh God, yeah, And I would. I would go in
(01:37):
to look at the outline while I'm working on one
thing to see where we were, and I know, like
day three was page nine and I was like, Oh,
we're gonna it was gonna be a long one. It
definitely is. Which mean is it? It's a two parter um.
So in this one, we're going to focus on the
(01:58):
basics of Star Wars, Princess Leiah through a new hope
and Empire strikes back. Yeah, we're pretty much sticking to
the original trilogy. Um. And then there'll be a good
finger and you'll have to wait to figure out what
we think about the medal bikini in Return of the Jedi,
and then the feminism of Leah and my own a
personal and the original on my thoughts of around Luke
(02:21):
Skywalker's feminism and the feminism of the Force. So right, um,
and before we start, just to let you know, we
did actually do a viewing social distance viewing of the
trilogy the originals the Originals, because I, too many people's chagrin,
(02:42):
have never actually watched a full Star Wars movie, and
I will say, if you know anything about the house,
stuff works, family Slash, I heart media family. There are
some die hards in here. I mean true, true die hards.
Holly Fry was very very appointed in the fact that
I had never seen one of these. She was very
(03:04):
forgiving but disappointed. I made sure that I let her know, yes,
guess what we're watching it. I feel like she was
pretty excited for us. Um, But yes, I have never
actually seen a full Star Wars movie. I've been around
it quite a while. You know, it's been out there
on random TVs at bars and restaurants because it is
played a lot. And of course I've seen it while
(03:26):
flitting past while channel surfing, but never fully committed to
watch any of these. I will say it was never
part of my childhood. It was never a part of
anybody in my family's childhood. I'm gonna blame the orphanage
that I was in for a while. We didn't watch
movies come on and and again, I'm a little older,
so I would have been right outside of when it
was popular. I think right before right after, you know
(03:49):
what I mean, Because it came out in the seventies.
Popularity hit again in the nineties, seventies, eighties, So it's
kind of all that time, um, and I will say,
after months, months of begging love actual studio. Yes, by
the way, all she did this whole really sweet video,
but how much she cared about me with an ending
(04:10):
that said please watch Star Wars essentially was what went down. Um,
And I think it was a bartering, like I always
got some free luggage out of this. I had a
step back, like that's cruel, that's me. But did she
was like, I watched whatever you want. I haven't decided
what that's going to be yet. That by the way, um,
that we finally finally committed to a day of marathon
(04:34):
ng in the midst of the pandemic. I mean, what
else am I gonna do? Right? Um? And so with that,
I decided to go ahead and write. So this is
what I wrote before she started the actual outline, y'all.
The twenty one page outline, Um, of my views of
what I knew of the movie before I watched the
actual movies. So I know Harrison Ford and he was
(04:56):
involved with this obviously, and the iconic Carrie Fisher was
an amazing woman. And of course Mark Hamill, you're crushed.
But with that, I know, Luke, I am your father
Chibaka and the dark side. Of course, I remember the
weird giant slime thing that for some reason in prisons
(05:17):
and grossly sexualizes Leia, and that there's a gold robot
R T D two. I know those letters oh know
why but I know those letters U. And of course
space in the future with lots of laser guns, which
apparently I found out later they don't know how to aim,
they don't know any work things. Um, and of course
laser swords. Uh. And I'm not gonna lie. I mixed
(05:42):
some of the scenes up with Spaceballs because I had
a roommate who loved that movie and also we would
watch that together. Um. And of course I mean John Candy.
He should have been in Star Wars, right, that was
a missed opportunity. Who doesn't love John Candy? Uh? In
this Uh, you know, I did go in thinking this
may make a break my relationship with any um, but
(06:04):
I will be here to tell you that it didn't.
Except there was. It was one of those moments when
the holiday special came on, I was like, what in
the hell is this? And why? I did question a
lot of things well that is fair. Um. One of
my favorite tweets from fellow podcasters stuff you should know.
(06:26):
They did a whole episode on the Holiday special and
it was something like no one can explain what happened
that night and it's infamously awful. Um yeah, yeah, I
I yes, we're still friends. We made it through. Um.
And I do love how this kept happening when we
were watching it too. Uh. We kept saying it's in
(06:49):
the future, but it's actually a long time ago, far away. Um.
And you did the thing. You got the line rugs,
it's true. I did. I I know is actually no,
I am your father. I got it now, I got
it now. But yes, as mini as we know, as
many have gotten that wrong, Luke, I am her father.
(07:09):
It's no, I am your father. But hey, I got it.
I've got that in my mind. Now that's a whole
it's a whole thing. There's been YouTube videos about why
we do that, so it's all good. And I also
had to get pretty good at translating Samantha's Star Wars speak. Um,
like goal, I don't think you ever got C three
p it. It It was always like gold Robot or gold
(07:29):
Man or gold Gold dude gold and then there's like
baby Jet, which was the why we so I had
to get good at that. UM. I will say, for me,
asking you to watch Showers is like a proposal. It's
my love language. It's like sharing a piece of my soul.
I was really nervous about it, Honestly, Um, I was
really nervous about doing this, even though I've had the
(07:52):
outline for like eight months. Um, I'm embarrassed by how
important it is to me, and then angry that I'm
embarrassed about it. Yeah, And I don't think you need
to be embarrassed at all, because, first of all, as
a good friend, you shared a part of yourself with
me that you love and I love that. Secondly, you're
really good at translating my Star Wars speak. You did
(08:14):
better than the partner who watched it with me, and
he was also excited that I was finally watching it.
And again, you're the one that convinced me to watch it,
not him. Just as a reminder, but yeah, I definitely
may have called the smaller jazz baby Jets. I may
have called a few robots baby robots, baby Goldman robots,
robot Man Dick. I called him at dick a couple
(08:35):
of temes like dude, that guy's a dick. He just
keeps running away. What's wrong with him? But yes, I
had to create nicknames shorthands in order for me to
figure out who was what and why and just again
just why. To be fair, that may have been more
with the holiday special of like what is happening and why?
(08:56):
But yeah, I digress, that is totally fair. I actually
like I saved my text message chain because I only
watched that for the first time like a year ago,
and I saved my text message change with my friend
and I love it. It's so funny because I also
had a similar action because people can prepare you, but
they can't really prepare you. It is that bad. Um. Anyway,
(09:21):
a brief rundown of my my experience with Star Wars
fandom because I actually don't remember a time having not
seen them. I saw the original trilogy when I was
four years old, and I love them, even if even
at four I was like, oh, I don't buy this
fourced thing. I don't think that's real. Um. They are
(09:41):
super nostalgic for me even watching them now. I remember
Obi one always my dad always quoted Obi One, and
I can't hear Obi One's voice without thinking about my dad.
Um doing Yoda and Darth Vader voices with my brothers.
I fell in love with my first cush Luke Skywalker.
I would pause the phrase even kiss his cheek. And yeah,
(10:03):
I'm gonna go ahead and put this out there for
anyone who may have a connection with Mark Hamill. Her goal, y'all,
her goal has been to get a tweet from Mark
Hamill or reaction. So we've gotta make this happen. We've
got this. We gotta make this dream come true. I
think I might. Actually I wouldn't die, but it would
be a close call, Like I think you would fall out.
(10:24):
I think you would fall out for sure. It's really
funny because I keep talking about like this scheme, and
my scheme is literally like tweet at him. Um. But
I do have this plan where I'm gonna recreate the
original trilogy from memory, which I've got that down. I think, Um, wait,
didn't you already start doing that? Did you say you
started it? I have been practicing perhaps, Okay, okay, I
(10:47):
feel like I heard that story. Oh yeah, it's it's
it's a work in progress and I'm gonna I have
costumes and perhaps and it's gonna be really silly and
hopefully fun. And I'm gonna release just chunks of it
every day on Instagram, because otherwise it would be ridiculous.
But maybe then Mark Cama will notice me in my
life will be complete and just and just. By the way,
as she talks about costumes, she's actually with I do this.
(11:11):
I'm in the Rebel X being fight suit flight suit
um and we will have pictures of those for sure. Also,
I talked to her an hour before we started recording,
and she was in another costume. She did a wardrobe
change before we start it. I did it all for you, Samantha,
And you know what, I appreciate it. I appreciate the
commitment and the love. And I know you're going to
(11:32):
say it's cosplay, but I think this is just your
life and I enjoyed that even more. You know, I'm
embarrassed to admit this, but I have spent more than
one night wondering what it means that my first crush
was Luke Skywalker and I'm dressing as my first crush.
I mean, enjoy it. I gotta take care of my
(11:53):
mental hell. Somehow I got this whole evolution of Luke
Skywalker cosplay. I'm probably just one of my goals is
week to wear a costume at work. And this is
the second time I've done it this week because I
was the winner Soldier earlier. So nailing it. You're right.
And if you didn't see our stories. She did do
the podcast with Movie Crush, you should check it out,
and she is in full costumes that she put on.
(12:15):
It wasn't a flashback she put on for that specific episode. Yes,
I think check thought I might have lost my mind
in Quarantine, but uh, um yeah, more about that later. Um.
So yeah, I had like all the toys and the
books and the games that we had the original vhs s,
and they I couldn't watch the last thirty minutes of
(12:36):
any of them because they were overworn. I think that
you would tell us this is the part that my
video stopped. I know, And it was always like right
at that epic climax, like, um, this is a for
younger viewers, who viewers listeners who might not know. Um,
this was the thing where if you watched a VHS
so much, the tape would get worn and you just
couldn't watch the rest UM and I Oh, I had
(13:00):
this board game that I love where you played along
with the vhs UM. It was like my favorite UM
and then UM my good friend Katie who is my neighbor.
She and I used to recreate um Jedi lightsaber battles
with the lights off and the music playing at a
Jedi training course. I created a fictional Star Wars character
(13:22):
when I was eight named Tara Polaris, which, by the way,
great name, Thank you, thank you, and I would go
dressed as her Halloween. People would be like, oh Obi
one cano be and I'd be like, uh, Tara Polaris,
thank you. Wait she and your fan fiction? Uh no,
(13:42):
she's not my current fan fiction, which by the way
is a hundred and eight page pages along you guys, um,
but she. I did write the Adventures of Tara Polaris
as an eight year old, and unfortunately I think they've
been lost in the Great Purge of high school, where
I burned everything that I'd ever written. No, no, I
would love to read about terror Hilaria's that's such a
(14:03):
good name. I feel like that should be a character.
Maybe I'll introduce her into my fan fiction. Actually, what
I wanted to do because I was going to read
a bit of my my Star Wars fan fiction. Um,
but it's all really depressing. I think the angst in
it could kill a person. So I was thinking that
I could put out the offer of listeners sending in
(14:25):
prompts and I will try to write something and maybe
we can read it. Uh. Is it gonna be like
I Choose your own adventure? No, I mean that it
could be, but in fan fiction usually like there'll be
one shot prompts like what if the twin swap is
a big thing in fan fiction. What if Luke and
Leah were swapped? What would happen in this scene? So
(14:48):
just putting that out there everybody. And I I had
like all the posters and stars. I had three thousands
of those sticky stars in my ceiling. I probably right
now I'm on a bit of a Star Wars bench.
And I think it does have to do with the
anxiety around quarantine and pandemic because it started right around then. Um,
(15:10):
and it is something that I find really nostalgic and comforting.
So once a week I watched something Star Wars related.
I mean, that's not a bad thing. And I just
tweeted actually in my own personal account about how there's
a research about during times of trauma, during people with
anxiety will rewatch a lot of things, which is absolutely me.
(15:31):
But I do want to call you out on one thing.
So during our adventures and watching these movies or marathon
in these movies, uh, they did turn on the Holiday Special, which,
by the way, apparently the version we had UH is double.
It was way long, right, so I think you had
like fifty minutes in our version was an hour minutes
(15:54):
and it was torture. So I was like, look halfway
through us stopped. It was like, I can't. I can't
do this. I'll be back, you know, when you're fit
to whatever. I leave, I come back and they have
restarted from the freaking beginning of the trilogies these movies.
I was like, what is happening? We just watched seven
and a half hours of this? What is going on?
(16:15):
It's really funny too, because when you came in I
didn't realize you remind us at first, and you you
said something, what are you doing? And I turned around
like a child had been caught doing something wrong. I said,
she is watching them? He was. Everybody was like what
it was quite embarrassing. Yes, it wouldn't have been embarrassing,
(16:36):
but I was just more in shock of like, are
you freaking kidding me? You guys, I don't know if
I've as much as I love things, I've never loved
something this much. Yeah, I've been thinking about this for
this episode, the level of love I have for it
um which I'm trying to going through some of it
right now. One of the last things Samanthan I did
(16:58):
before Quarantine was we went to Disneyland and we rode
the new ride Rise at the Resistance, and it's a
huge ordeal and I almost cried when I found out
we were going to get the right day. Okay, So
I'm gonna go ahead and interrupt you because I need
to talk about the overall process as well as the
level and the drama that ensued. So, first of all,
(17:21):
we were in l A to do a conference, and
of course while we were in l A, must go
to Disneyland. While we were in Florida, we went to
disney World, so it only made sense in preparation of
going to Florida. Of course, Annie had to uh talk
to our experts, Holly Fry, who, by the way, if
(17:42):
you're not following her Twitter account, you should because she
has daily up days of her love for Star Wars
as well, including all the mini dresses that she has
made in clothing she has made in dedication to Star Wars.
It is hardcore and amazing senior. Yes, yes, so all
of these things. Um. So she Annie decided to get
(18:05):
the best strategic way on getting this ride. And if
you don't know about this ride, you can't just get
on it. You have to reserve, and you have to
reserve way in advance or you were not going to
ride that ride. And not only did we get to
the park two hours before it opened and very cold,
and it was so cold, um that we also walked
(18:29):
in before the actual park open. You get to go
into the entrance is just pretty much stand there and wait.
You could see a crowd of people not only us,
holding their phones out and in getting ready for whatever
this reservation system was. So as it opens immediately and
he's like, Okay, you gotta do this, this and this,
all three of us, because there's three of us got
(18:50):
ready and did the thing. Now as they did the thing.
I know that was very flippant, but it was a
whole thing by the way, um, you have to download
the app, get to this ride, reserve on this ride
as a crew whatever whatnot. Annie is watching and as
we sit there and one of us finally shouts, we
got it. Not only does Any and the entirety of
(19:11):
the Disney crowd let out this in the middle of
nothing like You're like, what is happening? But Any turns
around away from us in silence and turns back around
and just like, oh my god, I can't believe. I
just can't believe. Oh my god. And I see tears
in her eyes and I'm going, oh my god, Any,
(19:32):
are you are you crying? Are you crying? And you
were like, no, yes, it's just so good. It's just
gonna be so good. And in anticipation of the fact
that we were actually going to ride the ride, and
I will say, it is a really good ride. My
own Donald wasn't it. And I didn't know he was
a bad guy in the New York movies. I still
love him as fine, I'm a fan, but it wasn't.
(19:55):
Oh gosh, I forgot. I also got yelled at one
of the stormtrooper dude because I couldn't figure out how
to follow a line. It was quite funny. I'm traumatized
by that moment. I'm not gonna lie. I feel like
those guys are coming to give me. He blamed you.
The rebellion was losing, the resistance. Yeah, but yeah, the
(20:15):
reaction on your face, the reaction on the crowd. In
the crowd was so big. I was actually taken aback. Yeah,
it was wild. It was wild because it was like
total silence for thirty seconds and then screaming the shouts,
the shouts of celebration was unreal. Um and the level
(20:38):
I've reached this I now fantasized, like legitimately fantasized about
getting to see these movies without knowing the ending of
Return of the Jedi. Uh. Like I've read old speculation
articles about how people thought it was going in What
did it mean? Luke was wearing all black, He's gonna
turn evil? And I interview my older friends about it.
Tell me what was like, what did you think was
going to happen? And I wanted so badly. Yeah, and
(21:03):
even as a person who never actually watched or cared
about these movies previously, I still knew how it ended.
So yeah, that's definitely a thing as iconic as these
movies are, it's inevitable you kind of know what's going
to happen. Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna talk about that,
uh for for a minute, just the cultural impact these
movies have had and why it's important that we're talking
about it. Um. I did want to throw in there
(21:25):
because yes, I was recently on movie crush for The
Winter Soldier. I'm going to be on their next for
The Empire Strikes Back. Um that I have been annoying
Samantha with my new belief that there, in many ways
the same movie. I've just been texting or like evidence
I find I did. I recently discovered the Sebastian Sandmark
Camel viral thing, which I'm really surprised by because I
(21:47):
even I saw that. I don't know how I missed it. Um,
and and a new hope. The first one slashed. The
fourth one came out on May twenty, which is the
same day The Winter Soldiers true identity as Bucky was
revealed in the comics and the day Mike parents got married,
so special day and also Holly Holly's birthday. Um, yeah,
super fan experts. She's not super fan, she's a like
(22:10):
Star Wars expert. Oh god. Yeah. We were joking that
we need to make a chart of like the level
of Star Wars fandom. She's the top, Yeah, I'm you're
the middle. Yeah, and even like I think of my
partner who also loves it, I was like, no, you
don't meet any You're you're you're a little lower than her.
And then myself, I was like, I'm at the bottom,
and like, well, I can't say I'm at the bottom anymore.
I finally watched it, so now I'm a novice. Yes, yes,
(22:33):
ance Ji Patawan as they say, which I still don't
know what them that's okay or do not there is
no try so yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of where
we are on our levels of fandom. And today I'm so,
so so excited to talk about Lea or Gana a k.
Princess Leiah. We are mostly going to focus on the
(22:54):
original trilogy because um, we talked about Leah and the
new trilogies, slashed the sequels and our feminism of Star
Wars episode which I think came out two years ago
on May the fourth, of course, but we'll touch on
that for sure because there are a lot of interesting
things and conversations we had. And as a kid, I
totally loved her, um, which was a big deal because
(23:14):
I'm kind of ashamed to admit this. But usually, like
I was fine with female characters, but they were never
my favorite or didn't even necessarily like them really, And
I think that might be because female characters aren't written
as well often. UM. But I loved her and I
thought she was so funny and smart and brave. And
I did love her hair. I thought it was awesome.
She good hand, she did uh. And I asked my
(23:37):
friend Katie, who I've mentioned she was like my Star
Wars partner in crime, UM, and I asked her what
she could remember of Princess Leah as a kid, and
she wrote me back. I thought that she was beautiful.
I loved her white dress. I thought she was badass
and returned the Jedi. I loved when she was the
bounty hunter. I did think it has to mean for her.
I remember liking her voice and how precise she was
(23:57):
when she said her words. I hated the needles scene.
A needles seeing is very scary, yes, um. And we
have talked before about the importance of costuming in our
feminism of Star Wars episode. And I do think there's
something to be said for the fact that most of
her costumes are functional but also feminine. Don't worry. Yes,
we're going to talk about the middle of the KINNI.
(24:18):
Oh my god. Um. And I also forgot to mention
that in the original ending returned the Jedi handaes and
Luke becomes Darth Vader in orders the destruction of all
the rebellion and listeners. Just so you know, she did
tell me this during the movie viewing. Oh god, I
only recently found that out, and I blew my mind. Yeah.
I think there were so many things that you were
(24:38):
talking about, including the transition for loose outerwear, like this
is the best way to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
So there was a lot of conversation that was had
between my partner and Annie, and there are so many
things that I'm like, I don't know what is happening,
but this nerd out is amazing from Afar and also annoying.
(24:59):
I don't know what to do right now. I'm both
impressed and annoyed. We're endearing but annoying. I it was
so endearing. I was like, oh, I love that they
have each other to talk about this, but what is happening, Well,
it's probably all the rest of this episode will go
so apolitics and advance. I did want to talk about
the cultural impact of Star Wars because this is something
(25:22):
that's been on my mind since we read Whiskey Ribbons
for a book club and there were all these Star
Wars references in it, and I got me to thinking
what it must be like to be a part of
something that big, where you could just be reading something
I never would have imagined there would be multiple Star
Wars references in that book. Um, where a character you
played or story or part of is just kind of ubiquitous.
(25:44):
And so I actually started making a graph keeping count
of all the Star Wars references I encounter every day
where I'm not like, not expecting to find them or
hear them. And it's between five and ten. I'm gonna
make a chart and I'm going to post it is great.
So I got asked, it is three thirty today. We've
been recording since too. How many references thus far before
(26:07):
this six? Wow? Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. It really is
stunning how many It just pops up and I'm like, oh, hey,
there you go. Um I think it was dead Eye,
Dead Eye mine trick? Uh and is the last one
I heard today? Um? So, in case you somehow don't know,
(26:28):
Star Wars is the science fantasy space opera franchise created
by George Lucas of currently eleven movies, TV shows, books, comics, toys,
video games, theme parks, dedicated conventions, radio dramas, music parodies,
musical parities, allah weird out, and documentaries. It's been involved
in science politics, pretty much everything that you can imagine,
(26:49):
and inspired a massive fan community the memes. The memes
are cosplay. Fan fiction experts have written about our Wars
as an American mythology, inspiring people to create their own thing.
It's now owned by Disney and has an estimated net
worth of seventy billion dollars and holds the Guinness World
(27:12):
Record for most successful film merchandizing franchise. When the original
Chilgy came out, beginning with a New Hope in nineteen
seventy seven and followed by The Empire Strikes Back in
nineteen eighty and Return of the Jedi in three it
changed Hollywood. It revolutionized special effects. I annoyed Samantha with
the paper I wrote in fifth grade all about the
(27:33):
secial effects of Star Wars and the Nike shoe that
they for some reason took out a Return of the Jedi.
She did mention when it was and where it was.
I was like, it was back there, and things like
industrial light and magic still around today came out of this,
and sound effects systems that we still use and for
better or worse, because you will find people that I
(27:55):
really think this was the end of cinema, the understanding
that you could make more form, more orchandizing than the
films themselves. It also introduced the idea of toy sets
and collectibles. It was the first blockbuster series. It started
the whole trend of having summer blockbuster releases. It modeled
the trilogy story structure and was the first to contain
(28:17):
many genres in one movie. The plot twist Uh and
the Empire Strikes Back as one of the most influential
plot twist in history, and a New Hope was the
first to surpass the three million dollar mark adjusted for inflation.
It's still one of the highest grossing movies of all time,
and it revitalized interest in space based entertainment, making way
for the Star Trek motion picture series and one of
(28:39):
my other faves that Smantha was also very patient with
me about alien Um, among so many other things. Some
comic experts say the popularity of the Star Wars comics
single handedly saved Marvel. It goes beyond that too. Harry
Potter was influenced by Star Wars so many things. Um,
they came out during a time when there was all
(29:01):
these feelings of hopelessness, and the stories of the time
reflected that the stories that people were watching in movie theaters,
but not Star Wars right. So again, by the way,
these are all any research things, and I just wanted
to be in here for a voice because her love
for it. There's no way I could ever imagine. So
from findango dot com and it's forty years of existence
(29:24):
as an entertainment property, it has also become a cultural
entity unlike any other, a phenomenon that has probably influenced
pop culture more than anything else in our time. Contributing
editor at Wired, Daniel ny Griffith's wrote, and maybe one
of a million universes does George Lucas combination of narrative
structure of a fairy tale with model making an aesthetic
(29:46):
of a downbeat, broken future sci fi movies of the
seventies even get made in one out of ability that
turns out to be the most successful independent creative enterprises
of all time. I think of that a lot, because
I know we all have heard the stories of the
actors coming on set and seeing like a walking trash
can and thinking out, my career is ruined. But you
(30:07):
told us about Harrison Ford trying to leave several times
and then coming back. Well, and it totally influenced the
plot of the movies. That's why the carbonite scene exists. Um,
I can see it like just all of these things
had to turn out correctly, and amazingly they did, or
else it could have been a very ridiculous little like
slop right. And by the way, during the movie, the
(30:29):
entirety of the time, while Annie was talking about this
is what was happening, this could have been what happened.
My partner was like, this is where they put c
G I AT backwards and they didn't need to do this,
and they made this. So it was a really interesting
context from a person who has ever seen it for
them to tell tell me how it changed. Yeah, and
it's so we were watching the Disney Plus version um
and for people and they know like Star Wars has
(30:51):
been changed so many times, and I actually, I really
really want to see the original cuts without all the
changes so badly, and I think maybe it'll happen for
me soon, very sited uh. Former Wired dot Co UK
writer Michael Rundell wrote, I'm fascinated by Star Wars because
of what a world without Star Wars would look like.
No Star Wars means no Lucas Films or Lucas Arts.
Would there still be a golden age of video games
(31:12):
without Monkey Island, Full Thottle or Salmon Max. One of
the many incredible things about Star Wars is that every
time you think you've mapped out every aspect of how
different a world without Star Wars would be, you think
of something else. Fan are not. Star Wars is a
part of you, and you are a part of it.
Like the travels of Odysseus, the ravages of our ancient
meddlesome gods, the trials of Superman, and the heroic journeys
(31:33):
of Mario, you can't avoid it, right. The original trilogy
told the classic tale of good versus evil heroes journey
following Luke Skywalker Leah Organa in Han solo as they
fight the Evil Empire. They won numerous awards, including Oscars,
and regularly rank among the top ten movies of all
time across multiple publications and market surveys. Darth Vader is
(31:57):
one of the most memorable villains of all time. I
think it also has something to do with James Earl Jones,
absolutely for sure. And Luke Skywalker is so iconic that
he's often used to teach the hero's journey in school,
and it's used in child's psychotherapy to make things understandable
between both child and therapists, framing the force as self
healing and the child is Luke and themselves as obi one,
(32:21):
which is a really big assumption. It's supposed to be like,
one day you won't need me anymore and you will
be able to do this with the force on your own.
I don't think that's true. Um okay, well, we have
a lot more to go over, oh my gosh, but
first we're gonna pause for a quick break for word
(32:41):
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. So
just a broad overview of some culture things you've got
(33:02):
when it comes to Star Wars. You've got sayings down worldwide,
even if people don't know where they come from, like
Jedi mind trick. You're my only hope. May the Force
be with you. I am y'all follow the Evil Empire,
and then you've got the holidays, May the Fourth be
with you and Revenge of the Fifth, which, by the way,
we watched four May the Fourth, Yes we did. It's
a celebration. It was a celebration for some um and
(33:23):
in two thousand one UK survey, almost four hundred thousand
people wrote in Jedi as their religion and making it
the fourth largest religion. Oh well, there's a church of
jeddi Ism and in Texas there's a registered Church of
jeddi Ism, which, by the way, are you part of
the no? I don't know if there's like a test second,
(33:44):
just checking Samantha um and then songs I always think
of for me, Run the Jewels, Skywalker talk because I'm
the real Darth Vader. I think that's from Banana Clipper
Bana clip Um Lutin Clan, Kanye West, BC Boys Linkinny
to Justin Bieber The Nerve Herders, which is a band
named after the Star Wars insult, and they played the
theme song for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So you got
(34:07):
all these like musical references too, and the music itself
from the movie is amazing and iconic. Um many view
it as one of the best movie scores of all time.
I think we try to plot away to get that
Darth Vader slash Star like, like you know this is
gonna happen. Someone's gonna die soon. Yeah. I'm actually a
(34:28):
member of the John Williams fan club and I have
been since fifth grade that I know, so it obviously
also influenced art. Banksy has used Star Wars imagery in
his own art. Other movies have it replicated Star Wars
posters like National Lampoons Vacation and European Vacation. And in sports,
Major League Baseball gets in on May the Four celebrations,
(34:48):
encouraging costumes and theme to give their ways. I've definitely
been to those. The Yankees are known as the Evil
Empire during this and they play the Imperial March at
their home games. And then as you say that, I
can hear the song on my head even though I've
not watched the movie but once also in politics, so
the same year Return of the Jedi came out in
nine three. Star Wars got wrapped up in Reagan's Strategic
(35:11):
Defense initiative, which was a system of ground in space
based lasers and missiles meant to protect against a nuclear attack.
Critics called it Star Wars, which Reagan of course leaned into.
Reagan also called the USS are the Evil Empire, and
at one point the U. S Military had an idea
to create a First Earth battalion made up of folks
(35:32):
who could walk through walls, be invisible, see the future,
and killed goats with a look m and they were
called Jedi Warriors. I definitely couldn't let go of the
fact that every single bad guy had an odd Russian accent. Yeah, well,
it's funny too, because I love that Carrie Fisher was
able to joke about this herself later. But Leah has
(35:55):
kind of a strange English accent. In a New Hope
it goes away, um And yeah, even a few weeks ago,
this happened when Trump's campaign manager compared Trump's campaign to
the Death Star, seemingly not realizing that one, the Death
Star is bad and it's for the bad guys, and too,
it always gets destroyed. Um. You got a very big
(36:18):
Star Wars schooling from the Internet for that and uh,
A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back have been
added to the National Film Registry by the Library of
Congress for being quote culturally historically are aesthetically significant right
just their own like beginning montage with the writing the
script you know what that is? Um, and science. Star
(36:43):
Wars has played a role in actual science. For instance,
when well I am in correspondence appeared on CNN as holograms,
one of the correspondents said, it feels like I follow
in the tradition of Princess Leia. Bionic arms like those
supported by Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. Some of them
are named after Luke Skywalker. Uh. A company out of
Hong Kong made a pretty spot on lightsaber. The military
(37:03):
is working on a T a T like machines, which
are the big snow creature things that they knock over
with their harpoons. Um. Yeah, I just call them the
monster things. I got you, I got you, Samantha. Uh.
And then there's a death star bug zapper right. In
the popular Smithsonian Star Wars exhibits. Star Wars The Magic
(37:26):
of Myth lives online and the millennium Falcon was the
inspiration by the name of Elon Musk's Falcon series lauge vehicles,
which yes, you could absolutely see that in and several
organisms have been named after Star Wars terms and characters. So, okay,
it's a big deal, that's what we're trying to say,
mostly me and Samantha supporting me. Um. It's not without
(37:48):
its faults. Obviously, there's hardly mean people of color, like
it's pretty much the only woman in the regionals and
that isn't much better in the prequels sexualization. There's definitely
talks about fandom. I think it might be one of
the most toxic fandoms UM. And we've talked about that
before specifically now in a lot of mostly men, feel
that the new ones are made by social justice warriors
(38:09):
with the social justice warrior agenda. UM. Some cinophiles, do
you feel like it ruined cinema forever because we pivoted
away from what in their mind is artistic films too,
movies that make a lot of money for children. Um.
But in a lot of ways it connected with so
so many of us and for a lot of girls
and women Princess Leia specifically was a feminist icon, and
(38:33):
we'll get into that after a quick break for word
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. So
that's finally arrived, Princess Leiah, and thank you for letting
(38:56):
me indulge in my Start Wars fandom and continue, because
just like you can't separate that out the influence of
Star Wars from our culture, you really cannot separate the
enormous influence of Princess Leiah on our culture and the
influence she had on countless other fictional characters, from Ellen
Ripley to Hermione and Granger to Captness Everdeen, so many
(39:21):
um so general sketch of her. Leah Organa is the
princess of the planet Alderan, a member of the Imperial Senate,
and the leader of the Rebel Alliance. This is all
by the time she's nineteen, just a f y I
according to George Lucas. She also has the Star Wars
equivalent of a pH d uh huh. Through the series,
we learned that she has the twin sister of Luke
(39:41):
Skywalker and daughter of Darth Vader. She was raised by
Senator Bail Organa and Queen Brea Organa. She goes on
in the new trilogy to found the Resistance as a
general against the First Order. She was played by Carrie
Fisher and the character has appeared in many books, comic
television shows, games, and she has gone on to become
(40:04):
iconic the cinnamon bun hair style, which George Lucas attributes
to a hair style of female Mexican revolutionaries of the
metal bikini, and has been adopted by many as a
feminist icon. She's been parodied, celebrated, and appeared on staffs
in the US and the UK, and she's appeared on
(40:24):
all sorts of merchandizing in all sorts of merchandizing. After
Disney acquired Star Wars, they had to backtrack a statement
that there were no plans for Princess Leia merchandise after
it caused so much backlash, so much backlash. Um, there's
still not as much as there should be, but um.
Carrie Fisher allegedly was told she had to lose ten
pounds for the role, which is gross and totally still happens.
(40:46):
For the new series, she was reportedly pressured to lose
thirty five pounds. I've been told something like this more
than once. So this is still absolutely a thing. Oh,
absolutely agism And then of course wait in all those
things and race um and Fisher has spoke openly about
how she regrets signing away her likeness, which wasn't really
(41:07):
a thing at the time. She told the Daily Base,
there's no merchandizing Tied two movies. No one could have
known the extent of the franchise. Not that I don't
think I'm cute or anything, but when I look in
the mirror, I didn't think I was signing away anything
of value. Lately, I feel like I'm minnimouth. The identity
of Princess Leiah so eclipsed any other identity that I've
ever had. Yes, I could see that. Yeah, that sounds
(41:31):
like she lost a lot of money. Oh yeah. She
She even said like she's kind of very I don't know,
good natured, but you know, she's got her classic funny
view on it. But she said, she said, if she
found out that Dadly Apartment was making merchandizing, she'd be
really mad for cooing amidala um. Leia's part diplomat, spy,
(41:52):
soldier leader. She's passionate, she's carrying brash, loud, strong, defiant, assertive, angry, snarky,
not afraid to speak her mind and fight for what's right.
She first appeared as Yeah, nineteen year old in a
New Hope in a virginal floor length address that's absence
of cleavage, although Fisher recounted George Lucas telling her not
(42:12):
to wear a bra with it because quote, there is
no underwear in space, because your body expands but your
broad does not, and it would strangle you. So Fisher
used to joke she wanted it reported that. However, she died. Uh,
it should be reported I drowned in moonlight, strangled by
my own brawl. Um. And that was a very popular
tweet after she did die. Um. It's immediately established that
(42:35):
Princess Leiah is not going to shy away from a blaster,
and later we find out that her actions at the
beginning of the movie saved the entire rebellion. This the
only force that was opposing the empire. She is captured
by the intimidating Darth Vader, but stands up to him
and withstands. His torture doesn't reveal anything, so she used damsel,
but she's still fighting and she's still making these snarky comments.
(42:58):
And when she is ascued, she pretty quickly takes charge.
She literally takes the blaster from Luke's hands and comes
up with a plan to get them out, jumping into
a smelly, disgusting garbage disposal, which is hardly a traditional
princess decision. She also immediately sees through Luke and the
stormtrooper get up. When he says he's here to rescue you,
(43:20):
she's like, Nah, is very unimpressed with him, and they're
poorly thought out escape plan. And I do love thinking
about like Luke, who's bringing is full of adventures, envisions
himself as the hero coming to save the beautiful princess.
He says he's here to rescue her, and she's like,
excuse me, you're who now, kind of immediately shutting him down. Um.
(43:42):
And I also love that her leadership in general isn't
questioned as a woman, Like it's never like, oh, we
shouldn't listen to her because she's a woman. It's more
Han being like, I don't listen to anybody, um right.
I do like the back and forth with Han and
the Han being and like, what what's happening? Who are
you what's happening? So before that happens, her planet is
destroyed by the Death Star to make a statement, and
(44:05):
I was like, oh my, yeah, they blew up a planet,
which has happened, um And in an instant she loses
her family, her friends, her stuff, her home and this
could have destroyed her, but it didn't. Alissa Rosenberg at
The Washington Post wrote about her, Leiah's nerves as a
revolutionary are clear from the moment she arrives on the screen.
She takes shots at the stormtroopers boarding her ship, it
(44:26):
gets stunned with a blaster in her hand, then has
the audacity to try to make Darth Vader feel ashamed
of himself. She has enough energy left over after a
nasty session of torture to insult Grandmoth Tarken. And while
she grieves when her home planet all around, is destroyed
by the desk Star, Leia is not paralyzed when her
unexpected rescuers show up. She's ready to go and to
gripe about their operational sloppiness. And then she went on right.
(44:49):
Leiah wasn't just the first great heroine of science fiction
and fantasy to capture my imagination. She was one of
the first characters I encountered whose power came from her
political conviction an acumen. So when Hans, Jerry, and Luke
do arrive to rescue her, she pretty much instantly assert
her authority and she um. This leads to conflict between
(45:10):
her and Han Solo, who isn't used to having someone
tell him what to do. He calls her sweetheart, but
Leah is totally impervious to his attempts to take control.
She also proves she's got more savvy and less bravado
than Han after they escape and she surmises their being
tracked by the Empire who let them go, and Hans like, no,
not this ship never because he's too cocky to admit it. Um,
she's right, he's wrong. Despite the tragedy she's gone through,
(45:34):
she assumes leadership in rebellion and also look Lucas McCreesh,
I know he's had a rough time. Leiah comforts him
after Obi one dies, but Lea just lost her home
planet and she knew Obi want to by the way,
uh and we never get to see her grieve. And Okay,
I know people like to fight about this because I
(45:55):
said it on another show, and man um that she
grieved off screen and Luke did lose his guardians, which
was very sad and traumatic. I agree, but but it
was also very quickly passed by. Wait that was it? Yeah.
He kind of just as like, well, I'm leaving now, um,
And I don't judge people for how they grieve. That's
totally cool. UM just saying, uh, you know, we don't
(46:20):
get to see your grief because I guess it's not
technically her story. It's explored some of the in the
Extended Universe legends. I will say the wout the movie.
She takes everything with like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, let
me keep going. Like that was like very much like that.
Seems like she should be a pause of some sort. Well,
(46:41):
we'll talk about that more in a minute. Well, now
we'll talk about with that more in part two, because
a lot of people gripe about the return of the
Jedi reveal. Um. I see her as someone who takes
things and stride right. But anyway, also of the characters,
Lay perhaps has the least of an arc, and a
part of that is she is the most sure of
in herself and her calling. When we're introduced to her,
(47:02):
Her biggest thing is learning to accept that she has
needs and wants on a personal level and embracing those things.
Han and Luke have a lot of growing up to do,
and Leia is instrumental in that for both of them.
Even at the heart of it, she influences Luke and
Hand to become a part of the rebellion. She's already
a hero when we meet her, Um, and she influences
them to become heroes too. She does often serve as
(47:25):
a support to Luke's story and to Han's story. And
then the first two is the potential romantic interest for
both of them. Um. She's more developed and interesting a
character than perhaps her traditional love interest, but there is
still an element of that. All right, So new hoping
is big explosion, dest star, Happy, pure are your medals.
(47:49):
Then we move on to The Empire Strikes Back, in
which Leiah is a prominent leader of the rebellion who
stays behind to the very last second to make sure
everyone is safely evacuated off of the snow plane it off.
We see her relationship with Han, and in today's context,
it's a little cringe e um, just because he's so
pushy and doesn't take no for an answer. Uh, I
(48:11):
definitely want to return to the whole nice men's scoundrel
trope that plays out here. And it is kind of
funny that she's trying to manage all of all of
the stuff, all of this evacuation, and Han is just
trying to get her to admit that she cares about him.
And I know the stakes are high because he's basically
trying to get her to admit he wants him to
(48:34):
say her he's gonna leave. But anyway, there's a definite
unthawed the ice queen vibe too. And Lando was pretty
flirty with her, although Lando is the type flirts with everyone.
My friend and I have an ongoing argument about whether
or not he had sex at the Millennium Falcing weigh
in on that if you would like or don't, you're
(48:55):
just gonna say that's the first thing she saw, it
said when he arrived, and I was like, I don't
know what's happening, but we had like an hour fless
long argument about it. Oh, and Lando is also trying
to make sure they don't get win that Vader's there,
so he's trying to endear himself to them. But uh,
we do see another instance of a woman sensing that
something is wrong and being dismissed when Lana voices her
(49:17):
concerns about Lando's trustworthiness. Um, Han land Chewy are captured
and tortured by Darth Vader that you only really see
Hans torture and I guess Chubaco with a loud sound thing.
Wait in the gold dude, old man gets blasted apart. Yeah,
I was like, what is what? Did no one notice
(49:37):
that Chubaka did? He did? He did? He came back
and Lead did too. Han was the one that was like,
um and then we have the famous I love you,
I know exchange. So there are so many ways to
interpret this, but one is that in the face of
hans death, she admits something she knew, She made him
doubt that she loves him, and he acknowledges his understanding
(50:00):
her fear of intimacy and accepts it as a kid.
I always saw it as Hans Solos two afraid to
say it in front of all these soldiers and Darth Vader.
But you know, multiple ways to interpret those those lines.
Some people take issue with the fact that Han asked
you to take care of her when clearly she can
(50:21):
do it herself, while others see those words as meant
to comfort Chewi, to give him something to you, to
calm him down. Um. When Lando frees them, Leah takes
charge of the ultimately failed attempt to save Han and
does save Luke after sensing his call for help. And
would you get to see her pilot the Millennium fucking
which is cool? Yeah, yeah, it was very cool. Um,
(50:44):
I think I'm not gonna lie. I was very confused
about what was happening, and you made sure to let
me know that this is where Harrison fords it, I'm
not coming back, so they had to have a possibility
of just ending him or allowing him to come back. Well,
the only reason he came back to Return of the
Jedi was he was supposed to be killed off and
then they didn't do it. There you go. Yeah, yeah,
(51:06):
So I'm going to end it here with the end
of part one, our heroes, your heroes, the heroes, how
about that, are battered and separated and in part two, yes, y'all,
after an hour of this lengthy discussion, there is a
part two and it's about the Return of the Jedi
and the infamous Metal Bikini, which is the one thing
(51:28):
that I know, and the feminism of Princess Leiah and
of the Fourth in general. Yes, so we'll leave you
on a cliffhanger, just like those lucky viewers that got
to see Empire Strikes Back and didn't know what happened
in Return of the Jedi. So look out for that
episode in the meantime. If you want to email as
you can, Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at
(51:51):
iHeart media dot com. You can also find us on
Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You or on Twitter
at Momster Podcast. Thanks as always to your superproducer Andrew Howard,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told
You as a production of I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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