Mental Health in Black Communities

In Black communities especially, struggling with mental health issues is still taboo. And that’s a problem.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Emily, and this is you're listening to
stuff Mom never told you. So. July is Minority Mental
Health Awareness Month. UM, a month that I think is
really important. I actually didn't know that this was a

(00:28):
thing that was marked and it's important. UM. So today's
episodes all about a topic that I feel very personally
connected to as a woman of color. UM, Black black
folks and mental health. UM. Most people maybe don't know this.
Mental health and black communities can be a bit of
a taboo topic. So today we're gonna be talking about
some of the reasons around why that is, UM, some

(00:50):
of the historical research and data around black communities and
mental health, and some resources and ways that folks are
are trying to make things better. Awesome, And if you
are coming to this episode as someone who is in
need of a little bit of mental health support UM,
or you've been sort of reticent to explore your options,
this is a really important one to pay attention to,

(01:11):
because we're going to make sure that you leave today's
episode not only hopefully feeling as much freedom as possible
around being able to pursue the kind of support you
might need, but also just having some tactical practical resources
for you to get you know, get hurt and and
and take care of yourself. This is part of that
whole hashtag self care thing that I'm all about. It's

(01:35):
you know it definitely you just roll drags. It definitely
warrants a little bit of that. I wish they could
see this, But no, I agree. I mean, I think
self care is important. I think it's gotten. I think
we've gotten a little like not everything, not everything is
self care, right, Maybe manny's and petties aren't the full
extent of how women should be taking care of themselves,

(01:56):
I say, as someone who got a manny petty within
the last twenty four hours. But um, this is this
is what real self care is about. I think when
we simplify it down to something superficial, um, then it's
totally warranting of those eye rolls. But this is I mean,
sometimes self care is not glamorous at all, and I
would put this in that category as super important even

(02:17):
if it's not sexy. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that,
because that's exactly how I feel about this issue. Um.
For me, self care around mental health looks like talking
about it, being honest about it. Being open about it, um,
seeking professional help if you need it, seeking medication if
you need it, making lifestyle changes if you need it.
And that's not always as glam as a many petty,

(02:38):
but it's also really important. UM. And so I think
one of the ways that I think makes in the
most sense to sort of start this conversation is really
just sort of level setting with where we're at. And
one thing that people should really know is that black
black folks and mental health has been kind of an
authority topic because it's so taboo. And so I think
that talking about mental health challenges can be taboo and

(03:01):
stigmatized for all people, regardless of race, but with with
black folks, we don't talk about it, right. I grew
up with this adage. You know, black folks don't go
to therapy, We go to church. And so that's I've
heard that many, many times. And so it's just interesting
how Um, it's a struggle, I think for anyone to
talk about mental health issues, but it's a particular struggle
for communities of color, particularly black communities. There's something very

(03:24):
white about this idea of having a therapist on speed dial.
I'm thinking, like Lena Dunham, esque and what does that show? Uh,
not curb your enthusiasm, but with all the super wealthy,
funny family members who god, hold on that Fraser. No,

(03:44):
Oh my god, that's perfect. I was thinking. I associated, yes,
that's a perfect example that you know what the show
I'm thinking of is Arrested Development. That's a good one, right,
So it's funny, but I almost think of like that
older woman, that matriarch of the families her, yeah, holding
her martini glass. You can tell I'm not, like, I've
never really been super into that show, but she's the

(04:05):
kind of woman I think of when I think of, Oh,
I have my therapist on Speed. Well, if you watched
that show, you would know that Dr Fuku is actually
a therapist on that show. Oh my god, really, Tobias,
So that the character on the show that is a therapist. Um,
and he's one of those kind of like just like
what you were saying, sort of granola e hippie to
be very white. They're so I completely see how therapy

(04:28):
has sort of been whitewashed in this way that when
you think of therapy you think of folks like Phraser
or Tobias Fuka from the rest of development like a
real um a real almost like a caricature of what
therapy looks like. Right, it's very white, it's very wealthy,
those two So when you layer on racing class here,
it's no wonder to me that there's such stigma around

(04:50):
therapy for folks in the black community especially, And that's
one of the things that that folks black folks who
do go to therapy, one of the challenges that a
lot of them have reported is at when you know,
when you're if you're if if the mental health um
industry is at the right, Yeah, the mental health industry
is very white. Black women can feel and people of

(05:11):
people of color in general can feel a bit isolated
because your therapist might not, you know, be able to
really truly grapple with or understand the issue that you're
talking about. So if you're talking about some heavy thing
related to culture or raise or being an immigrant or
something like that, your your super white therapist might not
always exactly, um, now, exactly what you're going through, right,

(05:35):
And that ability to empathize is so critically important. I
think some therapists might push back on that and say, listen,
I don't need to be my client heal to help
my client tell. But at the same time, representation matters
period full stop. So being having options as a individual
and in seeking out therapists who look like you, who
feel like you, who can understand and empathize with you

(05:56):
from a cultural perspective, I'm sure that can lower the
barrier f entry, you know what I mean, make it
more comfortable and relatable to pursue support that you know
is going to be there and be able to truly
understand where you're coming from. Yes, that's so funny because
my personal therapist shout out to Shelley. I doubt she's listening.
But when I found her, I specifically found her online

(06:18):
and she I was looking at her credentials of where
she went to school, and I saw that she got
her degree from Howard University here in d C. And
so I thought, oh, this is a black woman. I
was so confident. I was like, this is this therapist
is a black woman. I get there, she's very very
not a black woman, but she's amazing. So exactly, I
don't I don't want to say that only a therapist,

(06:39):
only a black woman therapist and understand my black woman issues.
But I definitely thought that going in, and then when
I got there, I was like, Oh, you're not a
black woman. Wow, that's funny to hear, like prejudicial assumptions
on both ends of inspectrum there. But that warns a
further conversation on historically black colleges and university. I wonder
if someone will do a podcast about them, so again,

(07:03):
I think, you know, just to sort of level set
on where the Black community is of mental health and
sort of the history of it. So one of the reasons,
in addition to the things that we were just talking about,
one of the reasons why there are so many taboos
and black communities might stem from slavery. According to any magazine, historically,
African Americans have normalized our own suffering. During slavery, mental
illness often resulted in more inhumane lifestyles, including frequent beatings

(07:26):
and abuse, which forced many slaves to hide their issues.
Over time, strength became equated with survival and weakness, including
mental illness, meant you might not survive. And I know
that in in my family and in my communities, I've
seen I've seen this. I know exactly what it looks like.
People feeling the need to sort of do it all
with a brave face and never never let them see slat.

(07:48):
And so if you're really having an issue, feeling like
there is a strength in not talking about it, there
is a strength and not speaking up about it. And
I can see how historically that maybe could have been
a strength and I kind of way to cope. But
now I don't feel like it's doing us any favors. Right.
That's so fascinating to bring up, Bridget, because I actually
recently stumbled across new research, not terribly new, but this

(08:12):
the study actually came out showing that there is the
potential for trauma to be internalized and imprinted on d
n A and potentially passed on to future generations. So
I mean, you're really talking very literally about institutional and
historical and systemic oppression being in some ways a very

(08:35):
sad birth right or so passed on from one generation
to the next. In this particular study, uh, they were
examining the DNA of Holocaust survivors and their their family
lineage and what they found this They found this sort
of pattern implying that children of individuals who experienced profound
stress in life maybe more likely to develop stress or

(08:57):
anxiety disorders. Themselves. The pattern known as epigenetic change because
it affects the chemical marker for the gene rather than
the gene itself, suggests that profound stress in the older
generation translated into an adaptation that passed on to the
next generation. That insane. I mean, I have no trouble
believing that. I mean, I I feel like anecdotally, I

(09:20):
have seen that. I see that play out. Um, I've
seen that play out, I feel like, and it doesn't
surprise me. Sure, And so talk about profound stress, talk
about continual oppression. You know, of course there's going to
be profound stress there, whether we're talking about institutions that
have had as long a legacy as slavery in the

(09:41):
United States, or internment camps for Japanese Americans or something
like the Holocaust. Right, of course, these things are passed down, um,
because of how significant they are. And I wonder if
that also could be translated into the cycle of poverty
and just how not genetic, but just how s y,
systemic and continuous that can be. Yeah, I mean, this

(10:03):
is a whole other episode. But issues of inequality and
issues issues of that nature are so systemic, they're so
widespread and So when people say things and this is
a terrible thing to say, but when people say things like, um, oh,
black people haven't there hasn't been slavery in America for
YadA YadA years getting together. People don't understand the way

(10:26):
that these legacies of oppression get passed out and are really,
according to the study, can really be like in our bones. Um,
and it's it's it's fascinating, but it's very sad. And
I think that's one of the reasons why I feel
like there is really a mental health crisis and black communities. Um,
it's really a problem that that they're such a stigma
and that folks aren't really talking about it. Um. Black

(10:47):
Americans are more likely than their white counterparts to experience
mental health issues. In fact, according to the Health and
Human Sciences Office of Minority Health, black Black Americans are
twenty percent more likely to experience serious mental health problems
than the general pop relation. And so we're struggling, but
we're also struggling in silence. Um, we're much less likely
to seek help. UM. Young adult African Americans, especially those

(11:09):
with higher levels of education, are less likely to seek
mental health services and their white counterparts, According to a
study by the American Psychological Association, I would have thought that,
like this was a generational trend in which young people
were starting to seek out help more openly. You would think, Yeah,
you would think that, And I'm I'm curious as to
why that might be. Um, I think that as a

(11:32):
as a young black American who you know has a
college degree. I think it. I just I don't I
don't know what the explanation. I mean, its financial because
my twenties, my budget was kind of a hot mass personally.
Maybe I wonder if it's financial or just that the
idea of navigating how you go about getting services can
be overwhelming, and it's one of those things. And I

(11:55):
can imagine if there's already a stigma, if you already
feel weird about it, challenging yourself to get the help
and doing so logistically, like finding a doctor, getting the
insurance information together, all of that might be overwhelming to
the point where it's, you know, you might think just
forget it. Hashtag adult ing. I'm like, just starting to

(12:15):
get on board with adulting is rough. It is rough.
If we have this definitely falls into that category. And
I was like, oh, you mean my mom's not going
to force me to make a dentist appointment in my
life anymore. My my dad's not going to schedule that
check up for me. Like, yeah, I would not if
it wasn't for my mom. Shout out to my mom
front of the show, I would never go to the dentist.

(12:35):
So something else that I found really troubling is that
as bad as it is in black communities, surprised, it's
even worse for black women. And we're going to get
into a little bit about why that is after this
quick break and we're back and we were just talking

(12:55):
about black communities and mental health again. This is a
topic that is near and dear to my heart. Um
I um, I'm someone. I mean, therapy changed my life.
I spent a lot of time growing up feeling unhappy
and out of place and anxious and sort of stressed
out and you know a lot of the ways that

(13:16):
teenagers feel, but feeling that that in a really existential way.
And it wasn't until going to therapy and learning how
to talk about my behavior and my issues and understand
them that has been a tremendous help in my life.
I don't know where I would be if I hadn't
gone to therapy, and it was hard. It was it
is hard because we I grew up thinking or hearing

(13:37):
that therapy is something that like white girls did. Black
girls don't go to therapy, Black girls don't have these issues.
I grew up internalizing that, thinking that was true. And
so if I was sad, if I was depressed, I
was having a hard time. I grew up thinking this
was some it was something wrong with me. I must
not be a strong Black woman if I feel like
I need help on an issue, or if I even

(13:58):
talk about needing help on on that issue. Yeah, And
there's evidence, new evidence that just came out saying that
the world would agree with that really unhealthy double standard
that we hold little black girls too, even starting as
early as age five. This new research that just came
out found that people like teachers and doctors and adults
are more likely to see little black girls as more mature,

(14:21):
more able to handle stuff, less in need of maybe
benevolent sort of support, right less in need of care,
and that I found extraordinarily problematic and troubling. According to
the study which came out from the Georgetown School of
Laws Center on Poverty and inequality. They found that black
girls may face unconscious bias while still in kindergarten. Black

(14:43):
girls are perceived as less innocent than white girls at
five years old, So it's not exactly related to therapy,
but I wonder if that same bias of seeing little
black girls as less innocent, in need of our help
or support, or more mature and able to handle it
translates over to that suck it culture, like deal with it,
get your stuff together, lock it up, you should need support.

(15:03):
I mean, that's been my that was my entire experience
growing up. I grew up feeling that inside, feeling that
if I, you know, expressed that I needed help or
that I was struggling or having a hard time, that
that wasn't okay, and that it was clear to me
that that was okay for other types of girls and
it wasn't okay for me. That was the message that
I carried inside on a lot of levels, not just

(15:27):
in terms of getting therapy and getting mental help, get
getting mental health help and things like that, but in
a lot of ways, I think I internalized the message
that society is set up to protect white womanhood and
I'm not I am not part of the you know,
I'm not part of that, Like I am not deserving
of that same level of protection. Society is not set

(15:47):
up to ensure that I am protected and supported in
the way that I think. It's easy to look at
our society and see how, you know, how it's not
set up for black women, and I think that we
have to We're going to cover that in an episode
or something related to that on intersectionality. I think this
is one of the reasons why it's so important that
women who live at the intersection of race and gender

(16:09):
discrimination don't get erased from the equation. And clearly this
is happening already. I I also have heard from many
of the women of color, and specifically black women that
I've worked with through my work at Boss Up this
mantra of you have to be twice as good to
go half as far, And there's some underlying truth to that,

(16:29):
because life is not fair. The world is not fair.
But when I hear a mantra like that, told me
over and over again, like congratulations, you're a tough black woman,
You've got to be twice as good to compete with
a white nude for the same job. And when I
hear that I can imagine how that kind of a
message could be internalized in a way to think, you know,

(16:49):
I need to suck it up, I need to like
just deal with it. I need to be to work
twice as hard to get half as far, and that
I don't know, I think that can lead to really
dangerous UH scenarios and the lack of seeking help when
you need to because it's seen as a failure. Yeah.
I mean, I just we just had an interview and
Glamour magazine, UM, basically all about this. Um. I probably

(17:13):
the hardest time I ever had in my life was
when I was working for a major news company at
a twenty four hour cable news company, and that's exactly
what I felt. I felt I had internalized this idea that, um,
you know, I am the representative of my race and gender.
And we did an episode around this. And in work
fales where you can often feel if you mess up

(17:35):
as a woman, then your boss is going to say, oh,
all women mess up in this way, and that you're
really become representative of of the group that you represent
or of the group that you're a part of. And
when I was working there, I felt if I raised
the alarm about anything. It could be things that were
some of the things that I went through there were
legitimately all unfair labor practices, and rather than you know,

(17:58):
speaking up about it, I just thought, Oh, if I
make noise about this, I'm gonna get pegged as you know,
the complaining black woman, and I'm gonna make it. I'm
gonna make it harder for another black woman who comes
behind me to be in the same place. And I
have this really intense wait on. I felt like I
had a really intense weight on my shoulders and I

(18:19):
had to be perfect and in all the ways, and
if I wasn't, then I was messing it up for
someone else, or there would be less I would be
the last black woman in that office, right, And I
couldn't handle that. It was almost like you were a
martyr for your group, that your minority group of which
you're representing, which really becomes exaggerated for women in male

(18:40):
dominated or white dominated fields. Which is it safe to
assume that's what You're absolutely safe. So you've got to
read this Glamour piece by Jessica Militari, who interviewed with
us about burnout for Glamour, and they're they're Glamour online piece,
I should say, and in it you'll see just how
dramatic burnout is for women, especially when you layer on race,

(19:03):
um and class in addition to identity, not identity, but
to in addition to gender identity. So what happened at
that cable news that let you want to tease a
little bit about the story, Yeah, it was. It's one
of the saddest it would mean. Actually no, it wasn't said.
It was a wake up call and in a kind
of way, so it kind of was sad at the time,
but helpful in another way. Um I on the day

(19:25):
before my thirtieth birthday, I collapsed in an elevator. UM
I had had a cold, I had been uplight the
night before. It was a really busy news cycle, A
lot was going on. Um I was going to get
coffee and the next I woke up. Next thing I know,
I was in the in the infirmary and the nurses
there were you know, they said, oh, you're dehydrated, you

(19:48):
are exhausted. You need to take care of yourself. And
this is the saddest thing. Whenever I tell this story,
people are like, wow, that is bleak. Um. They the
nurse was. She said, it's a someone we can call, someone,
we can call all to come get you, take you home.
And I thought about it, and I said, literally, everyone
I know in New York City is in this building.
I don't know a single person who's not in this

(20:10):
office right now. There was no one to call, you know,
no one. No. I have worked so hard that I
have made zero friends or not in this office. And
it was a week up call. I really became clear
to me that I had to make some life changes.
And it became clear to me that for probably for
a mix of the reasons we were just talking about
that I am someone who internalizes the need to do

(20:33):
it all and they need to do it perfectly and
they need to be twice as good, and that I
will put I will take that to a really unhealthy
and dangerous place. All out. I mean, you are in
such good company, unfortunately, because this is what I've made
my life's work about, really is burnout and people. We
could talk about burnout for a whole other episode. Oh wait,
we did with Chris, I did with Kristen and Caroline

(20:54):
last year is a good check it out. The episodes
called Boss Up and as it turns out burnout is
not just oh I'm so tired, it's a clinically diagnosable
mental health disorder. So that totally falls within the confines
of what we're talking about here. And I'm so glad
that things have changed significantly due to your hard work
and assertiveness and willingness to set healthy boundaries. But I

(21:16):
think honestly that so many women I talked to, especially
women of color, have had shockingly similar experiences on that
it doesn't surprise me at all. I was talking to
a friend earlier and I mentioned, um, I think we
were talking about me trying to get something done on
a project and I said, gee, you know, I'm not
a very assertive person and I really sort of never

(21:37):
have been, and he was. He said, of course you're not.
I don't feel like black women are allowed to be
assorted people if that they are, so when you need
to speak up about something, it's possible that black women
just don't really get that space. And I have completely
internalized that. I think I'm part of me. Wonder this
is the whole other. It's like a therapy session. I
don't where is Daphanie taking calls? Well, you really knew

(22:01):
your Fraser, it's here. You really knew your Frasier. I
really I grew up watching Frasier, which is the whitest
thing I've ever said out loud. It was like a
ten year old watching Fraser. Get the jokes? No, okay,
but I somehow stayed glued to them. I don't know.
I guess my parents must have. I think you know what.

(22:22):
I came on right before the Simpsons. That's what's really happening.
Were Simpsons family? A man? We should do an episode
on Lisa since definitely, yes, we should stay tuned writing
down right now? What were we talking about? Oh, Frasier. No,
they're all like, get to the point, lady, stop talking

(22:42):
about Fraser. Um. And probably women are young enough listening,
who are like, Who's Fraser? That makes me sad we
are old and that we got okay? Um? So wait.
I wanted to add one thing to this, which is
back when we were I don't know when this game
out previously. God, we've recorded a lot of episodes, y'all.
I think we were talking about this on work fails

(23:04):
or when I've at some point mentioned burnout. I recently
learned that a ton of the stress research that has
ever been done empirically is done on almost all male
Oh you know what, it was our first episode on
the psychological benefits of female friendships. There's a ton of
stress research out there, but most of the stress studies
that have been done in the university setting, have you

(23:26):
even been done with men and women in equal numbers
or just all men? And similarly, black women are not
specifically studied as a group. So when we talk about
minority mental health, when we talk about black women in particular,
that that are sort of erased because of a lack
of intersectionality in the research world. Um, this is a

(23:48):
real problem when it comes to empirical studies. Josephin Breedfeld
has said little is known about black women and mental
health as these individuals have been largely absent from research,
and she is the research manager at the Mental Health
Foundation Foundation. She goes on to say, the majority of
research has looked at ethnic minorities as a whole, which

(24:08):
is like, come on, people, like every ethnic It's like
saying every Spanish speaking country is so the same, and
all Latin people are like excuse me no. Um, So
they've been looked at as a whole rather than providing
a focus on the challenges faced by black women. Yeah,
that is, I mean, it's it's upsetting, but it's not
necessarily shocking, because that's so true of even um physical

(24:32):
medical research, where you know, we don't study the you know,
bodies of women specifically, and even with women that or
we're we're more likely to study groups of men and
then give women medical advice that's geared towards men and
not specifically women. And that's a problem with things like
heart disease, where women's bodies operate differently and to be studied,

(24:53):
you know, in their own way and you know kind
of way. It's not surprising, but it's certainly not helping
the situation when it comes to black women in mental
health totally and kind of along those lines, they've actually
done studies that show that doctors are so doctors are
less lucky to take the symptoms of women seriously in general,
but it's even worse for black women. A study out
of uv a UM University of Virginia has proven that

(25:15):
there's a racial bias and on medical providers assess black
patients and complaints of pain, guaranteeing that medical providers consistently
undertreat black patients and ignore their symptoms. Um. Yeah, and
so this study is about physical symptoms, but I can
only imagine how that also translates to translates to mental
or emotional issues that folks are reporting. No wonder, women
are less likely to tell their doctors if they completely

(25:38):
like if doctors aren't taking them seriously or they're not
they're getting gaslighted. Um gas lit Yeah, I don't know
the side side note. Um, I'm sure we'll hear about
it on Twitter. Let us know, y'all. Um, Like, no
wonder if if women are not getting that space, as
you said earlier, I think that's a really great way

(25:59):
to say a black women in particular, they're not given
that opportunity to be taken seriously when doing a very
brave thing like asking for mental health support. There're no
wonder there's this philosophy or this mentality that as a
black woman, you have to do it all, you have
to be everything to everyone. According to this recent article
in Ebony magazine titled Depression and the Black Superwoman's Syndrome

(26:23):
by Josie Pickens, she writes that quote, masking up as
superwoman is killing us. Whether we need that death as
a result of suicide or the stresses that lead to
heart disease and other serious life threatening illnesses. She goes
on to say that and to really point out and
a really great example here, which is that black women

(26:44):
between the ages of forty five and fifty five are
quote biologically seven point five years older than white women
of the same age. So there's this weird dichotomy between
doctors not take king black women's issues as seriously women
in that demographic than being less likely to report it

(27:05):
or get help or ask for the support that they
need because why bother because they're getting met with this resistance.
And then this this other philosophy which I hear on
reality TV often. You know, black don't crack, so like
we look younger. I don't need botox like white ladies do.
What your botox is a white lady thing. We should
do an episode. Oh my god, I had not even that,
had not even occurred to me that that would be related.

(27:28):
But it's true. First of all, my mom is she
looks like a teenager. You look at my mom and think, oh,
what are you thirty? And she's in her sixties. It's true,
like black bodies it's it's so toxic because I feel like,
because we look younger, we present different different some things
could be going on internally, but it's harder to take

(27:51):
it seriously if you don't if the inside doesn't actually
outside in a kind of way that I phrase that weird,
but you know what I mean, totally know what you mean.
Fist bump. Yes, and even here from um from this
sort of quote comes from a Lotty Joiner post on
the Route dot com that medically speaking, black women's bodies
are older in some ways than white women's bodies on average.

(28:15):
I'm assuming it's got to be on average. Uh, then
there are hidden symptoms that were missing, and so it's
just it sounds like a total erasure of a space
or a representation of black women's seeking mental health for
it and getting it. And that's honestly why it was
so important to me just personally to do this episode.
But also I think that word you use, erasure, is

(28:36):
exactly it. You know. I so the fact that black
folks are dealing with more mental health issues in their
white counterparts, clearly it's an issue for us, Yet we
are completely erased on the conversation. I did not I
mean I remember reading an article. This was probably fifteen
years ago. I was in high school, so this was
really going back. But it was in Bitch magazine. It

(28:57):
was my you know, how Bitch was like an early
can we can you say that it's the name of publication?
Yeah for sure? Okay, well b Word magazine. If I
can't say it, sorry, that's the thing. Well, you're fifteen
years old reading and I was attracted to that magazine
because I was like, oh swear word. Um. But yeah,
reading an article about how black how mental health is

(29:18):
dealt with in pop culture around whiteness, and so just
like we were saying before, you know, they did episodes
where Carrie and Sex and the City goes to therapy
where she meets that guy and they sleep together and
blah blah blah. Um. If you remember that, yeah, I
remember Sex and the City plotlines pretty well. Um. But
in this article they were talking about how another show
at the time that was very similar Girlfriends, which was like,

(29:40):
you know one of my favorite humans, yes, yes, yeah,
friend of the show sort of she might not know
to get her on the show, Tracy call Us. But yeah,
basically they said that you would never have an episode
where you know that it's dealt with in a in
a loving or normalized way on shows that deal with

(30:02):
with with black folks, right like, that was not a
thing that was happening. And I grew up watching women
like Carrie Bradshaw or you know, other other white characters
talked to therapists. Really are watching the movie Harry at
the Spy and she goes to a child psychologist, and
I remember just thinking how how odd like you would
never see and you're the daughter of a medical, daughter

(30:23):
of a doctor, and even then that was completely sort
of foreign to me. And so I think that the
fact that black folks and black women in particular are
kind of a race from how we think about therapy
and mental health issues in America when we are the
ones who we're dealing with it in a in a
deeper way, is baffling. And this seriously tragic irony is

(30:45):
what it is. But I also I am optimistic by
I am optimized by you know what I'm going I'm encouraged,
that's the word. I'm encouraged by pop cultures change on
that front. Definitely, should we take a break before we
dive into that at a sick of break all right.
When we come back, we'll talk about how things are
changing on that front for the better. But we'll be
right back after a quick word from our sponsors, and

(31:16):
we're back. And the good news is that, especially in
the relatively recent history, pop culture, especially black people in
pop culture, in the media landscape, whether they're musical artists
or behind you know, television shows are really starting to
take seriously, um, how to address these issues in the

(31:37):
public light, whether it's in a fictional character, like through
a fictional character's plotline, or in a public way, in
a really brave way. So um, yeah, I've been really
thrilled to see, um, the way that artists have been
taking the lead and having these conversations in black communities. Um.
If anyone watched one of my favorite shows on HBO,
Insecure Ray she's amazing. Um, but one of the characters spoiler,

(32:00):
so if you haven't seen it, also pick up her books.
Oh it's so good. It's so good, Black Girl, It's
so good. That's the story of my life. It is
story of my life to it's actually it's like it's
as an r A was watching me growing up and
wrote a book about it. Honestly, Um, but yeah. On

(32:21):
one of the plot lines of the show Insecure and
Against Boiler, a Lord of Kis's seen it is that
her best friend Molly is going through a lot of
issues with dating and with um work and having all
these kind of she's really struggling, and she walks out
on the street one day and she bumps into a
friend from college who used to be sort of um
what you might think of this, like ratchet um, And

(32:42):
she's like, oh my god, you look so good lest
time I sell you. You were like dancing on a
bar doing shots, And her friend very earnestly says, yeah,
I was a mess back then, but now I'm in
therapy and things are going great and I'm so happy,
and Molly, you kind of realizes. At first, Molly thinks, therapy,
you know, has that same actually I would have had
before I got into therapy, which is therapy, you know, what,

(33:03):
are you quote crazy? And then while talking to her friend,
she realizes this might be something that I could benefit from.
So having showing a character go through that trajectory of
having a problem and then realizing that therapy is an
option and then weighing it, like weighing that as an
option for her. I thought Liz was huge, was transformative, powerful, Yeah,

(33:25):
and when I I can almost relate to that in
my own experience because I don't know if anyone else
listening has ever gone through this, But I actually started
to talk to mental health professionals in order to get
my boyfriend the support he needed, or to pursue therapy
for my family member who needed it. You know, I
initially went to you know, be an agent of connection

(33:49):
for other people's therapy and ended up in therapy myself
that way. And I had not thought of myself as
being someone who would benefit from it, and that was
so incorrect and my life completely transformed when I actually
did seek out support for my own self. So I
think women are very good kind of like negotiation, very
good at negotiating on behalf of others. Um. And it's

(34:10):
harder sometimes for us to feel safe and uh be
well received when received when pursuing support for ourselves. Totally
so so important to see that as an option and yeah,
and and to see it as an option not just
for friends or for family that you're trying to get
support for, but for yourself should you need it. Um.
I also just if you got jay Z's newest album,
which is great. You should definitely listen to it. It's amazing.

(34:33):
But um four or forty four, he actually it's so
not only is an album all about um being critical
and looking at your own behavior and your own actions
and your own intentions and and thinking about it in
a in a with the lens of being aware of
self aware, which just kind of a new thing I
think in hip hop, especially for jay Z. UM. But
he actually explicitly mentions seeing a therapist and so m

(34:56):
on his one song, he writes, mama had four kids,
but she's a lesbian, had to pretend in so long
that she's a thespian, had to hide in the closet,
so she medicates society shames the pain. It was too
much to take. My therapist said I relapsed. I said,
perhaps I've already and slipped into European whips. Um. And so,
going on that, his mom comes out as gay, which

(35:16):
is huge UM. And then too he explicitly talks about
seeing a therapist. And for me, I mean when I
heard that line, I thought, yes, jay Z, thank you
like getting it. Getting a therapist if you need one,
should be cool talking about your issues. And being self
critical and looking at your behavior with an eye towards intentionality.
We should make that cool, like that should be a

(35:37):
thing that we make, that we talk about and make normal.
I completely agree. I couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah,
And that's again why why it was so sad to
see um kid Cutty. I think last year UM wrote
a very open, uh open and like moving post about
getting help from mental health issues and addiction issues and
checking himself into a center. And I was and I

(36:00):
thought that was great. After that happened, UM, the hashtag
you good Man sparked a conversation on Twitter around black
men and mental health. UM. So that was great. But
then I was so sad to see Drake, another rapper
who I I like, dissed him forward He added a
line to a song making fun of Kid Cutty for that,
and I thought that was I mean, I think what

(36:20):
we're seeing is is important and transformative, and it makes
me sad that folks would try to crap on that.
I said, you stayed xanixed up and perked up in
his album like dissing Kid Cutty, which I get it wrapped,
Like hip hop can sometimes be, you know, not antagonistic,

(36:42):
but they can put people against one another. But come on, man,
that was low and yeah and he he When people
called him out for it, he was like, I'm not
a poppy walk back at all. I'm sorry, I don't
really like drink them. Well, that actually did make me
I never really liked Yeah, that made me not like
him too like him, but I didn't. I liked him
less after that, although I do think his uh proud

(37:04):
judaism is very interesting in a cool way, like minority
like black Jews, Like we could do an episode on
being a Puerto Rican, do you know, I think there's
a whole thing. Then when I was growing up, they
didn't know there are black Jews. I think that's I
think that an element of visibility from Drake is a
good Do you like him or do you know what?
Not like him? Yeah? Him, I want to like him,

(37:24):
but I don't. I don't like his music. I feel
you um and yeah. I think when you look at
these artists, I think of it as I mean mental
health issues in black communities. To me, it's we've seen
it be so entwined with things like policing. And then
I think the same way that black artists can no
longer afford to stay silent when it comes to things
like Black Lives Matter and police shootings. I see that

(37:46):
as a similar thing. And we actually know from the
research that black mental health and policing are linked, actually
done research from the fact that UM, black Americans can
experience a form of post traumatic stress disorder from UM
seeing you know, police shootings all day long on a loop.
I have certainly felt that, And so I think it's
one of those things where artists can lead the way

(38:08):
in sort of sort of having those conversations. And we
know that so often, UM police can get called to
handle UM what are actually mental health christ crisises and
the crises Christ, how do you floor less crisis? You
get it? Um? And so yeah, they've actually been some
really recent cases of black women who dial nine one

(38:30):
one who are having mental health issues and then they
like a psychotic episode, and then when the cops get there,
they are shot and killed, and which is disgusting and
deplorable and completely maddening and infuriating. UM, I don't know
where to go after this. Well, it's deplorable, I get it.
I mean, I think I think it's it's like a
legitimate statement. I don't know where to go after that either.

(38:52):
I think here's the important thing is that we are
seeing raised awareness around this. We are not seeing political
movement around this, which is there needs to be so
shout out for those who are supporting mental health reform
because that needs to happen in this country obviously. UM.
Also the fact that this is hashtag Minority Mental Awareness

(39:12):
Month is a great first step. UM. And you know,
black women in particular are raising more awareness around mental health.
There's an art exhibition called Unmasked Woman which is exploring
the current state of black mental health or young women
in the UK, which is awesome. And there's another exhibit
in New York City UM that really finds Black women

(39:32):
using art to raise awareness and have conversations around health,
black women in health in general, but also mental health. UM.
There was a really sad situation where forty nine year
old woman in Brooklyn died in a hospital waiting room
after she'd been waiting twenty four hours to see a doctor.
She fell out of her chair and died on the
floor after blood cloths moved from her legs to her lungs. UM.

(39:55):
So that's pretty terrifying and sad and awful Um. But
then eight years later, New York based artists sim only
paid homage that woman Um in her exhibition at the
at the New York City's New Museum called The Waiting Room.
And so this really was a way of using art
to raise awareness around black women and mental health, Black

(40:16):
women and health. In addition to being like a visual
art exhibition, it also part of the exhibit is Um
offers training and workshops around self care, mental health issues
and all of that for folks so they know what's up.
And so it just seems like a really cool way
of turning this tragedy that we were just talking about

(40:36):
it like black women having their their pain and symptoms ignored,
and using that to bring awareness so that people know
that this is an issue. And I feel like half
of the problem is making sure that those folks who
are in a position of power and decision making, whether
you're a doctor, a psychologist, a psychotherapist, or a police officer,

(40:56):
know how to read people's symptoms and not bring and
sort of combat some of the unconscious bias that everybody
brings to the table that can quickly make us assume, oh,
this is a dangerous, crazy person instead of this is
a person who needs my help and protect those folks
and and uh and treat them fairly and appropriately. So

(41:19):
I think, you know, we could talk all day about like, oh,
black women need to seek out more help. Yes, but
when they seek out help, professionals need to be like
fair and just in how they treat Absolutely. I don't
actually think this is an issue that can be solved
with you know, if you're a black woman, go see
a shrink. I think this is an issue that needs
systemic cultural change around how we think about, talk about,

(41:40):
and deal with, um, the mental health of people of color.
And and that being said, there are there are resources
to available for those of you who are listening, who
are thinking that you might be struggling a little bit
right now. If you've been putting yourself last on the
to do list every single day, when you know that
you've been meaning to reach out to a medical professional,

(42:01):
make today the day you do that, you know, make
today the day you you make today the day you
pick up the phone, or you find what kind of
coverage your insurance provides. I know it can be a
pain in the ass, but call them up and get
the support you need, whether it's you know, seeking out
a therapist or other kinds of professional help because you
are worthy of your time. You are worthy of that effort.

(42:24):
And just as much as you would obviously do that
for your best friend or your sister, or your mother
or your daughter, pick up the phone and make that
happen for yourself right now. If this sounds like something
that you've been in need of. Yeah, and so just
for if if you're a black woman or a person
of color out there who wants resources specifically around black
folks and mental health. UM. A couple of good resources

(42:45):
we found UM. One is Ourselves as Black. Their admission
is to empower the Black community by promoting mental health UM.
And something that I found really helpful about their site
is that they actually include a state by state provider directory.
And so if you're like me and you want to
find a black amist, although shout out to my there,
she's not black and she's great, and you need to
make assumptions based on there, they're like, wait, where degrees from?

(43:08):
It's like, what does she put in her and her
chicken recipe? You're like, how does she make the hay
to sell it? Uh? Yeah, you don't want to have
to get into that. Totally fine. They're there for you.
Um so it's the website is ourselves black dot com
and then you can go online and find their provider directory.
Another good one is Black Mental Health Alliance, which is
Black Black mental Health dot com. And again they just

(43:31):
provide a lot of state by state resources of health.
Folks can get help if you want specified help to
to go along with you know, your identity. I love it. Well,
thank you for all of what you brought to this episode.
This is this is This is a topic that I mean, honestly,
it's a topic that I care a lot about and
I just want if one person listening feels empowered to

(43:54):
have this conversation, even if it's what's with a friend,
even if it's not you know, even if it's just
saying I'm having a tough time giving your giving like
this is your perdition, you permission to to do that.
Have that conversation. Yeah, I love it. Wilson and deal listeners,
we want to hear from you. We want to hear
if you have sought out support in the past, what
did that feel like for you? How did how doctors

(44:16):
responded to your requests for some support on mental health.
Have you been seeing a therapist? Has that made a
difference in your life as it has dramatically for Repridgeon
and I make sure you send us a tweet at
mom Stuff Podcast, and we are always sharing stuff and
chatting along with you in the comments section on our Instagram.
Handle that stuff and I've Never told you, or shoot

(44:37):
us an email at mom Stuff at how stuff works
dot com.