August 15, 2019 • 41 mins
Anney and Samantha discuss mental health, and how to take care of yourself and others during a time of crisis.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
I never told you production of I Heart Radios. How
stuff works. For today's episode, it's kind of a follow
up on on one that we did recently on body positivity. Um.
(00:26):
And before we get into it, trigger warnings at the
top for very brief discussions of sexual assaults, UM and suicide.
And yeah, we recently did an episode on body positivity
and you need Antha suggested that we do a companion
episode on mental positivity, which is a broad term that
I think we coined. Are we coining Are we coining
(00:48):
it right now? Maybe? And we just said it because
it is a language but linkage, but it's more of
like mental health, mental health, yes, care, mental health care,
mental care, yes, um, And we'll yeah, well it's a
pretty broad term, but we're gonna we're I guess talking
(01:09):
about this in part because there is a lot going
on in the world and in our personal lives, and
it does seem like, um, there's a lot of mental
health issues impacting women, and um, how we take care
of our mental health something that is always good to discuss, um,
and how we can support each other, right, I mean,
it's been a rough few years for many non binary
(01:30):
and female identifying population, and whether it's due to situations
or just overall physical and emotional taxation due to the environment. UM,
I've seen more and more of my really close and
dear friends suffer without considering enough about their mental health.
And when they do, and when I do, oftentimes, UM,
we add on more guilt for actually taking care of ourselves.
(01:51):
And I say that again as I'm one of those
that does this. And of course I'm not trying to
make this a self help podcast necessarily. I'm not about
bad I'm not license therapist in any way, but I
think there's something to be said to making sure you
are friends in this minty world and those around remember
to give themselves or ourselves permission to care for ourselves
and not forget that there is a lot of biological
(02:13):
and mental reason as to why sometimes things just feel
like it's too much. Yeah. Absolutely, And UM, one thing
we wanted to discuss in this UM this depression. Right,
So that's going to be kind of the linkash. So
when we say mental health, UM, I'm doing a broader
We're talking about a broader term of depression, just an
overall overwhelming feeling as well as with anxiety, but I'm
(02:35):
kind of linking it more to depression, the sadness, um,
the giving up, the hopelessness. So that's what we're gonna
focus on today. And there are many different types of depression.
It's not just the simple I'm depressed, although you know
you don't have to say anything other than that to
ask for help. That that's just a good term and
it is what it is. But it's helpful to have
a definition and understanding of what maybe an underlying issue
(02:57):
that we should be talking about. So out of the
mini and plethora of I'm sure identifications and actual titles,
here are a few, um, some of the ones that
are gonna be more familiar and probably a little more used,
um in the public world as opposed to the private world.
Do you know what I mean? UM, Major depressive disorder,
which is a severe form of persistent depression. There's a
(03:20):
feeling of loss of interest in activities or general depressed mood,
which has to be part of the diagnosis. So there
are several symptoms in several criteria that has to meet,
and that's one of the big ones that people know.
It's very severe in its diagnosis. The persistent depressive disorder
is used to be known as the dysthymia or a
low grade persistent depression, which could lasts two years or longer,
(03:40):
so it's persistent but not as severe as major. And
then you have the postparted depression or depression due to
infertility or pregnancy at the same time, so it's kind
of all that linkage with that hormone um or the
lack of Then you have the premistral disporte disorder which
is PMDD, which is pretty severe and I know we
use some types of birth control to control that as well.
UM seasonal effective disorder, you all know what that is.
(04:02):
You get sad in the wintertime. Atypical depression which is
not persistent, but a pattern of depressive symptoms. So things
can happen um and you just constantly feel depressed here
and there. Is not necessarily persistent. And sometimes when you
have a good thing happened, you're like, hey, everything's fine now,
but then you hit right back to and then you
have the situational depression or stress response syndromes, not necessarily
(04:24):
a psychiatric diagnosis, but it can occur due to stressful
life events or situations. I know that's pretty common for
a lot of us. And as we're going through many
of things, yea many of things. UM, I think that's
something to keep in mind. It's also important to know
that people may have varying forms of depression which can
be diagnosed based on timing, types of symptoms, and an
(04:45):
actual chemical and biological differences in an individual. And multiple
types of depression can actually be diagnosed simultaneously, so you
could have major depressive disorder and persistent depressive disorders. Is
can be a dual thing. You can have his partum
with major depressive So there's many many linkages that we
can't just say is just just this. Um. I'll also
remember hormones and thyroid issues can cause major roles in
(05:09):
depression and mood as well. And we do have some
statistics from Mental Health America for you, and estimated twelve
million American women suffer from clinical depression annually, about one
in eight will develop it at some point in their lifetimes.
And yeah, all kinds of things go into depression. Genetics, hormones, reproduction,
biological factors like premnstrual syndrome and fertility, childbirth, menopause, and
(05:31):
societal factors like work stress, family responsibilities, sexual assaults, and poverty,
and interesting in left just because we were talking recently
about the daughter syndrome UM dutiful daughter syndrome rather and
females being the main caregivers, actually they are high risk
for depression just on top of that. But even so,
on top of that, if you're UM caring for a
person who hast dementia, it's twice as likely that you
(05:52):
will be diagnosed with depression because of that stress level
and the likelihood of isolation and in itself and just
not able to cope and not being able to care
for oneself. So I thought that was interesting to throw
out there too. Write over fifty of women believe depression
is a normal part of aging and menopause and do
not seek treatment for it, and that's where they think, UM,
their depression is coming from, right, And actually depression in
(06:14):
women could have a misdiagnosed rate as high as fifty percent.
So that's and I thought that was fascinating just to
know that women in general can still be misdiagnosed, even
though we may be a little more vocal than the
opposite sex, UM, but it's still misdiagnosed often UM and
as any stage earlier. Half the women who are diagnosed
don't even seek treatment. Over fifty of women think that
(06:36):
depression is totally normal for two weeks or longer after
giving birth, and that is one of the number one
reasons people and those identifying as female oftentimes don't seek treatment.
They believe it will pass, or it would be better,
or just it's just better to wait it out. And
oftentimes films will not recognize suppression as being clinical. I
think the term master depression is a reference to not
feeling normal or like themselves, but not want to identify
(06:59):
it as depressed or being depressed, and there is a
likelihood like myself, I don't realize I'm going through a
depressive episode UM until the physical signs actually come out.
So my physical signs are fatigue and even muscle pains
and over excessive need for sleep because a constant tiredness,
which is fatigue. And it was noticed sometimes that the
(07:19):
actual feeling of sadness may not always be present, so
I don't sometimes know that I'm sad, I just know
my body slowly shutting down. I have done this a lot,
and even recently after a concern UM after the many
of health concerns that I've had, you know, all the
web in d times I've told you about UM. I
realized that I was depressed. And I've done this throughout
my life. This is something that I can look back on,
(07:40):
you know, hindsight, and realize, oh, that what was happening.
I still sometimes can't even catch it until I'm in
the middle of it, UM, which is quickly accompanied by
my guilt because there's nothing really wrong happening in my life,
which is why I can't recognize why I'm feeling this
fatigued and tired, and I don't nothing. Nothing makes sense.
(08:01):
Am I getting too much caffeine? I'm not getting enough caffeine.
I think that happens a lot of people don't see
symptoms or don't recognize it, or don't want to know
it too. Yeah, I think the exhaustion is the one
for me. If I'm suddenly like it's tired and I
don't want to do anything, that's a pretty good sign.
(08:22):
So we do have some more for you listeners. But
first we're going to pause for a quick break for
a word from our sponsor. And we're back, Thank you sponsor,
(08:43):
And we're back with something that I found out has
an actual name, kind of love it. It's called the
not as Bad as fallacy. And we have talked about
this before, for sure, and I've bet a lot of
you don't even really need actually find it. But it's
generally when you you feel like someone has it worse.
(09:05):
So what right have you to to voice your problems?
Are are complain um? I used to say to a
friend who always felt bad complaining about quote heavy quote
minor things when he knew I had so much quote
major stuff to complain about. And I used to always
tell them, it doesn't make your problem less legitimate, are
your feelings less valid? Don't get trapped in that comparing game.
(09:29):
Comparing problems is not healthy or productive. Although I can
see some use for putting things in perspective now and again,
but not like dismissing it or disminishing diminishing it. And
we did talk about this a little bit in our
TRAM episodes, how women frequently don't report sexual assault because
they feel their experience was not as bad as other women's. Um.
(09:50):
It's almost the opposite of one upping. For instance, if
someone who has clinical depression compares their situation and their
relatively quote lighter problems to some one who doesn't have
depression and is managing better despite having quote heavier problems,
they might not seek help, and they might internalize that
in a negative way. They might experience all sorts of
(10:10):
negative outcomes. And many of us get our self worth
in part from perceived strength and resilience, which might keep
us from admitting that we need help or might make
our self worth take a massive hit. And that's absolutely me.
I want to be like I'm the strong one. I'm okay,
I'm stable. It is all good. I don't need any help.
Yeah I need a lot of help. Well, we're we're
(10:33):
gonna get through this together. I'm the same way, And
it's good to have friends that know that about you. Right.
We all handle problems in different ways, and they impact
us in different ways. There is no absolute scientific method
for measuring emotional suffering or pain. Yes, some problems are
clearly worse in the scale of things, but we all
know that, and that doesn't mean we should dismiss the
(10:54):
smaller things. Being sensitive and aware about timing is important.
But yeah, I don't, I don't any problem. It just
does it. We all do it, and it's frustrating when
you see someone else do it, but then you do. Well,
it's not as bad as that, right, But in the end,
there's there's plenty of space where everybody have issues and
(11:16):
need to fix it. M oh absolutely, And for for
my recent experience with my dad dying, I didn't want
to burden other people, especially if I knew they were
dealing with their own things. And I didn't want to
ask for help and or bother or upset anybody. Um.
I have a friend who used to say that by
trying not to create problems by asking for help, I
(11:37):
created my own bigger problems and needed more help. I
think that was one of the things I kept telling you.
I'm like, you need to understand we want to help you.
Those who really care about you want to help you,
and when you don't talk to us, it makes us
feel just like how you're feeling about the fact that
you couldn't come to us, and we would much rather
be with you than not and wonder what we could do.
(11:57):
And that's that's one of the big things for everyone
to realize. I mean, I'm talking to myself too, because
in my head I grew up with and this is
something we talked about with the trauma stuff, not wanting
to be in people's way, or not wanting to be
a burden, or not want a feeling like I'm gonna
be rejected, all of those different things, But in actuality,
those who love you and care for you would much
rather be there with you than not know what happened
(12:20):
and come back to, oh my gosh, what happened to you?
Why couldn't have done this? And I think when we
talk about like suicide, race and those who have taken
their own lives, I know those who remain have that
excess guilt of what could I have done? I didn't
know um and not everyone, but there's this level and
not that hopefully it's not on We're not gonna victim
(12:41):
blame anybody. But the truth of the matter is, in
any situation, we would rather be there for someone than
to wonder what we could have done. And that goes
for everything. Just someone who's going through any tragedy and
are able to be coming, able to come out of it,
to be able to be hopefully, I would think in
my group of friends, they want to be a help
(13:01):
and they would love to be a part of that.
And it makes and I don't know if it's karma
or whatever, but just insentionally like it. It helps them too.
It is a part of that as well. And I
think when we were talking about, um, you would not
want to tell people. You would not want to tell
people who would gone through similar things I've done, And
I'm like, what are you doing? Like, I don't want
(13:22):
to understand anybod I'm like, but no, this is not
about them. This is about you needing help. And that's
for everyone and anyone. I get that as a social
worker on like, I don't want to think I've gone
through my own things. I can't project this onto you.
But there's a difference than being in time of need
and knowing who you can trust and know you can
talk to and not having to worry about that, right, yes, yes, um,
(13:46):
And that's something I have experienced doing during this whole thing.
Um people expressing to me that they feel bad complaining
about insert whatever problem here, when when you've gone through
such a loss and it's kind of drying it, it's
because sometimes as you might have forgotten about it or
you weren't thinking about it for a second, and then
it's it comes zooming back and I totally get the instinct.
I've done it too, um But I don't see anything
(14:08):
wrong with talking about something else right right, And I'm
not sure why. When we were researching this, I just
started wondering why it's so ingrained in us to dismiss
our own problems um to our own like stressors and anxieties.
Why do you think that is? I think that from
many females and those who identify, and especially those who
(14:28):
are marginalized marginalized females, the idea of survival and persistence
means strength in oneself and the desire to not ask
for help, to be the solution, and not to cause
problems to not be seen, as I said earlier, a burden.
There's also this whole secrecy versus attention seeking and I
think and also a major part of this is being
ignored a bit. Um So when I talk about being
(14:51):
a tension seeking or being secrecy, think about the Appellation
family that kind of became a social They're a group
in itself and there keep it in the family that idea,
and part of it keeping in the family is not
to talk to people, including therapists or anybody else about
whatever situation is wrong with you. So if you're depressed,
put on the happy face. Don't not like anything's wrong
because you're going to bring shame blah blah blah to
(15:14):
the family or whatnot. So it's supposed to be internalized
and and supposed to be UM quiet or the attention seekings,
like if I ask for help, it looks like I'm
just asking for attention, And I think there's this fear
that you're that person, especially for females. Oh, she's just
an attention horror type of mentality. And it's like, Mmm,
can we just go ahead and push that off the
table altogether? Um, And I think again, as I was
(15:35):
talking about being ignored, we already talked about previously, and
I know the episodes many many episodes of not believing women, UM,
doctors not believing women in general. As we stated earlier,
women are misdiagnosed when it comes to depression again up
to fifty of the time, So that may be a
problem as well if you actually do feel like there's
something wrong and you just can't put a finger on it.
(15:55):
A K A. I'm tired on this and this, but
it's not necessarily if it physical as much as mental
health stuff and it's not being believed that you're actually
tired kind of personality. You know, perhaps that's one of
the reasons you don't want to talk about it, because
it's I'm just imagining things once again. Or we can
talk about religion. I know, we brought this up and
the idea that the suddenologies to be handled through faith
(16:17):
in prayer. I was actually told that growing up UM,
I had attempted suicide at the age of twelve, I think,
And at that point in time, I think I told
the story where I went to a friend of mine,
my friend of mine reported to arts school counselor, I
had to sit down school counselor, report to my family,
and my family put me into um a room and
(16:39):
yelled at me about how I embarrassed them, and then
how I could I not come to them into the church,
and and how we have you really been praying about this?
That was the question I was asked UM. And I
was going through a lot of issues, identity issues. I
still am, and but this put this whole level of
shame that I didn't understand growing up UM And because
(17:01):
I was really really into religion up until past college years,
I felt like I was failing if I was not
content and happy and satisfied, And and then the whole
other part with that was, um, why isn't Jesus enough
for me? And please don't get me wrong once again,
I think religion can be beautiful, and I think faith
(17:23):
is beautiful, and I think people need it as a
way of coping, and people believe it and that's fantastic.
But when it comes in overshadows other things such as
getting medical help or get you know there's a problem,
there's a problem there, and and being taught that makes
you want to ignore it because you don't want to
bring shame on yourself because you don't have enough faith.
(17:44):
And then I think also there's this whole fear of
being UH listed or being labeled as crazy, So going
to a therapist, taking medication, going doing any of these things,
if you have a mental health disorder, then you are crazy. See,
And that's not true. I mean even now when we're
talking about the shootings that have happened, and the first
(18:04):
thing they label our mass shooters mental health issues and
that's the only thing you really here as a defense
mechanism um or a defense rather for them, it becomes
this whole stigma they were crazy, you know. And don't
get me wrong, I'm sure there's mental health in there.
I'm sure there's like many, many, many issues for anyone
(18:24):
and everyone, anyone and everyone who feel like they have
the right to take lives or any of that, or
have the right to get something. There's some other problems
we know this, But that label in itself, I think
deters people with actual problems like this to not want
to be labeled. And I think those are some of
the things. I'm sure twenty thousand more reasons could come
about UM. And I know there's tons of research. As
(18:47):
I was reading through it, a lot of it was like,
all right, yeah, you may they may deny this, this
and this and this isn't this, but on the reality
it is now what do you what can you do?
I think that's the next part of the columns that
I've seen when you read through why to how or
or in UM and I thought it was also fascinating
that again men there was a whole comparison to men
(19:11):
versus women, who handles one and how have they handled
how whatever? But it's still the fact that women also
may not have the time to seek out help. Again,
kind of going back to the caregiver's part. But when
you're trying to quote unquote do it all and take
care at all, take care of it all, when do
you have the time? Yeah, you know, Yeah, that's true.
(19:33):
I remember I think I full listened around the podcast
before the first time I went to therapy. The therapist
said to me, I think you don't have time for
therapy and it will stress you out more. And I
was like agreed because I didn't want to know. But
I always thought that was kind of strange. It's it's
almost like there's a level of gaslighting ourselves, like we
(19:53):
don't we're so ready to not believe ourselves. And I
do think it's interesting that we do it for our
past selves too, Like what was that thing about an eighteen?
I didn't know anything and there is some again perspective there,
but we're so ready to just dismiss right. Um. It's
kind of like a reminder that hormones are changing pretty
fast in those times. And so even though yes, drama
(20:16):
queen is the term that oftentimes happened to these teenagers
or whatnot, which is unfortunate, you do need to take
the time to listen because there's a lot. I think
that's when I started cutting. Yeah, it was when in
teenage years and it kind of became a coping mechanism.
And I don't say I'm not a severe cutter, but
let me put that out there. I guess we need
put it this up top two. Um, but like just
(20:36):
the harming indoor without realizing when I'm gripping myself, you know,
like in that way, learned it as a teenager. So
there's a lot of habits that begin there as a
coping mechanism that you need to recognize and go ahead
and talk to your kids or talked to the kids
around you about if you see that as a concern. Yeah,
it's a really volatile time. Um. For some reason, when
(20:58):
we mentioned we're going to do us, the first thing
I thought of was this Seinfeld episode where they're a
coworker of Elaine. I think her name was Toby. She
loses her pinky toe, and Elaine feels something like jealousy
about the amount of sympathy and I think she gets promotion, um,
which Elaine thinks is because of the pinky toe, because
(21:19):
she lost her pinky toe and um. One of the
behind the scenes like commentary and by the way, that
the toe does get reattached if you're concerned. Spoiler, Sorry
that didn't even come into my head. Um, but what.
In the commentary, one of the writers said the inspiration
(21:43):
for the story came from a woman working on a
neighboring show who had lost her baby and allegedly or
coworkers were jealous of the attention their boss gave her. Yeah. Wow,
this is strange, mind blowing, oh Seinfeld. The thing is,
if none of us, all seven billion plus people on
this earth, never discussed our problems because someone out there
(22:06):
has it worse, we would never talk about the things
that bother us. All of us but one person who
drew the most terrible, terrible straws, we wouldn't be able
to have open and honest conversations about what was going
on in our lives. I wonder who that person would be. Goodness,
I don't even want yeah, no, no, no no. Um.
(22:28):
And this is actually important in the context of policy, like, um,
sure the US has Internet censorship, but China has it worse.
Like I've heard that, um, which is true, but it
doesn't mean we don't have a problem, right Or Americans
men's rights activists who point to women in other countries
who deal with more sexism, So what are you complaining about, ladies?
(22:49):
So we see this on bigger, like a larger scale.
And then there's the when I was your age thing,
stop complaining. Um, but yeah, kind of getting away from
the original point. No, but you're right, I think, Um,
that's exactly kind of where I started thinking about this
whole idea. UM. I had a conversation with one of
my good friends recently where she felt her crashing point
(23:10):
was a silly and ridiculous reason. Um, even to the
point that her parents asked if something else happened that
triggered all of these issues, and she felt so weak
and that that she just couldn't understand why she, as
an individual who has a great job and has a
good family at home and everything seemed to be okay,
why she felt like this and why she was being
like this. And the truth of that is it is
(23:31):
not necessarily the issue in itself, but it's what the
depression is hanging itself on. That's the statement that I
wanted to make sure was said and heard that I
know this sounds very self help. Is depression in itself
is its own monster and sometimes we can't explain why
it's there. It makes sense with like death or loss
(23:52):
and tragedy, but outside of that, the monster will use
whatever weakness it may find in an individual to bring
them down. And that's kind of the reminder. Depression exists
and haunts some of us all the time, at all times,
and that's just how it is, how it's gonna be
forever um. And then that for some it's situational or again,
as we talked about, a typical these things happens. You
(24:13):
may just be a sad person in yourself. I think
I'm more sad and cynical than anything else, um, And
I have to pretend and play happy and bubbly when
I have to play that role, and I can go,
I can get it. But typically I just want to
be a house and just silently stare at the screen
and hug my dog. Just the whole idea of shaking
it off or just letting it go, it's not a
(24:34):
reasonable option. Just like any element, there's not always a cure,
and I think you need to be remember every day
can be different. So one day is gonna be rough,
next day may be okay, the next day may be
all of these things happen, and we have flare ups,
and sometimes it's a great day and sometimes it's an
awful day. And sometimes you don't have a flare up,
(24:55):
but you have a flare up every day, or you
don't have one for months at a time. And I
think that's the reminder that I want to talk about,
is because we beat ourselves up so often because of A, B,
C and D. And it can be as easy as
someone who has gone through hell and back coming back
(25:15):
and saying I've been blessed because I'm here and ignoring
that tragedy kind of like thor yeah, you know what
I mean. You know I did that for you, I
brought that, I brought that back for you. Um, the
idea that you know, oh yes, I lost all of
these people, I've lost my pretty much planet planet. He
(25:36):
lost all of this stuff, but but I'm still here.
It's okay, and I'm gonna keep fighting for another day.
And what happened he became a gluten alcoholic, It's okay.
The idea that you can find any reason to say
I'm doing this wrong or I shouldn't be doing this.
But those are the times that when you start ignoring
things bigger issues happen, and I think for me, the
(25:57):
idea trying to hold it together there and then you
fall apart and you see only one solution, which is
by the way, sometimes haunts you as a person who
have suicidal tendicities at times, and I have to check myself. Um,
it's always kind of there and and this is super serious,
and I apologize. I know this is one of those
(26:19):
things that I'm like, I think it's necessary. It's always lingering.
So having a breaking point, even though you have to
remind yourself and hopefully you're in a good middle state
to say tomorrow will be different. Things do change, It
will not always be like this at that moment. You
may not remember that you know what I mean, And
I think I just it needs to be a reminder
(26:40):
that depression is an entity in itself, and it's not
just because it's not necessarily just because something is happening,
and so you need to be careful and be able
to talk and have your support system and be able
to do all these things, which we're gonna talk about
more later. But I did want to bring that out
that it is a thing. Depression is a thing that
is a kind egorical thing that is not necessarily seen
(27:02):
but definitely felt, indefinitely there in existence on its own.
It's like you, you come in with the m CU
reference and then I come in with the Harry Potter yes,
and it clings to everything, negativity of your life, everything, alright, alright,
I love how our positivity episodes are always a bummer.
(27:26):
But we do have some advice for you. But first
we have one more quick break for word from our
sponsor and we're back. Thank you spots here. Okay, so advice, Yeah, yeah,
(27:52):
I think that's this is so the beginning. The first
part for us is to define it and let you
know so you can recognize it. Sometimes having a title
is nice, Oh yeah, absolutely, being able to name it's
very helpful. Right, So that's why we came at the beginning, yes,
and reinforcing the fact that just because not everything is
falling apart doesn't mean you may not be feeling that.
(28:13):
So now coming back with hey, here's some things maybe
could be helpful. And I hope that you know that
you're not by yourself, right because this advice is actually
primarily for other people in your life. So if you're
going through something, um, if you're in the midst of trauma, grief,
or some other massive loss. Um. This is more for
(28:36):
the other people, because it's it's hard when we detect
stress and people that we care about because we often
feel it too, and we want to fix it, and
it cannot necessarily be fixed, and sometimes it can't even
be made better. Um. And it makes you feel powerless
and useless, and no one likes those things. It makes
you face the randomness of life and your own lack
(28:56):
of control, and that's why we feel so uncomfortable and
an adequate or or a lot of us feel that way,
I would imagine. I think it also makes you feel incomplete. Um,
you don't feel whole anymore. And when you lose a
loss of self, loss of a bit of who you
wish you were, but who you once were, there's a
whole identity crisis in that, So that that people need
(29:18):
to recognize that even though you're like, but what about
but there's still that whole trying to piece it back together.
So you have to be careful in dismissing all of
those things from other individuals. And if you feel like
you don't know what to say or do, don't let
that stop you from reaching out. Everyone, almost everyone feels
(29:39):
that way, right And this is one of those moments
where you just come in and say what do you need?
It's okay to ask and they may not give you
a straight answer, but sometimes that non answer helps too,
And I think that's the best way you can do it.
Just come in and say, I don't know how you're feeling,
I don't know how you handle and I don't know
what your coping mechanism is, but what is it? Let
me see if I can help you. What What do
(29:59):
you need from me right now? What can't I do?
And listening is always a good one. Don't avoid the
subject if it comes up, um. Don't force someone to
talk about it either. Get comfortable with silence, get prepared,
be prepared to witness pain and having no solution for it, um,
and don't really try to offer one, because again there's
(30:21):
not necessarily you can give like tomorrow will be better.
You can do things like that. And I say this
as someone who's in the midst of grief. Grieving folks
can be a little weird, um, and they're all different,
so you might feel unappreciated because the other person doesn't
have the energy to contribute to the relationship in the
same way. Um, I feel like I was just kind
(30:43):
of wandering around aimlessly and I would just forget. I'd
be in the middle of a conversation, I would just forget. Um,
So be prepared for stuff like that. UM. Maybe don't
say things like it's God's plan, she or he is
in a better place. You need to move on. Look
at all you have to be grateful for. You should
do whatever insert here they've lived along life, things like that. Um. Also,
(31:07):
maybe don't tag posts with deceased on Facebook or xes
or something like that. Right, It's it's you need to
be very careful and you need to get permission. One.
This is not necessarily about you, And I say that
of course if that are your significant other, and do
what you need to do to grief and such. Um.
But if you're a friend of a friend who you
(31:28):
did like them, be careful. Yeah, I would also say, um,
with all of these things, validate the feelings of an individual.
So instead of saying God has a plan for you,
just listen and just say, oh my god, you know so,
how are you feeling? What do you what do you
feel about this? What can again coming back with what
can I do? Whatever, We're just sitting with them and
(31:49):
ask how are you feeling about this? And then listen,
because if maybe that person is religious and they say, yeah,
I appreciate the time, they're in a great better place,
celebrate that with them. That's fantastic. Go ahead and with that.
But again, not everyone grieves this way either, And that's
the same thing for anyone who's going through depression. And
(32:11):
it has no trauma or tragedy in it, there's no
reason they have to have a reason. Just ask what
can I do again? Listen, sit and listen. Of course,
it's always nice to hear you love them. Yes, I'm
sure they'll take that in anyway, because I would love
that being appreciated. It is always always nice. Absolutely, um
(32:32):
checkens chickens are great them for the long haul too,
especially on big days if we're talking about something like
all days, anniversaries, birthdays. I found this quote grief last
longer than sympathy. Uh. And in those first weeks months,
people usually don't know what they want, our need, so
by the time they've figured it out, people have stopped
asking a lot of times. And I can tell you
I am afraid like I'll wake up at night, I'm
(32:53):
like one day, people check it off, so very important,
very important. Well, and with that, I would add, it's
not about you. So just because you're uncomfortable, sorry, you
need to deal with it now. Of course it is
something because you have PTSD and you have trauma. Of course,
take care of yourself and look look to yourself and
(33:14):
see what you need to do is well. But if
you're someone that has good friends, you should also be
a good friend and not everyone. And everyone's going to
experience something sometimes right, and some things may be uncomfortable,
and I think I dealt with that with my own
PTSC triggers and sexual assault stuff. And and of course
obviously we're gonna hear we're hearing so much now, so
(33:36):
many things today. But one of the things that shut
me down real hard with a couple of friends of
mine is just them dismissing me or be saying they're
uncomfortable and saying that I'm being inappropriate when it's my
own experience. You don't, please don't be that people, Please
don't because I'm sorry it makes you feel bad because
you've never dealt with that. But you need to take
(33:57):
the time and think what can I do to hell?
But not? Oh my god, how to avoid this? Right right? Um?
And one that you've been a good piece of advice
that you brought up a couple of times is offer
practical helpful things like getting groceries, food, taking care of errands,
covering something at work. And yeah, don't depend on the
person to call you because they probably won't offer concrete
(34:20):
things with times, and make sure to ask. Things become
very precious in grief. Um. Something might look like trash
or laundry to be washed, but it might be a
precious item of the dead or an x. Um. Be
sure to check also for the long haul, your help
might be even more valuable later. Run interference. Yes, that
(34:41):
was so nice. When someone is going through something, everyone
wants to help and that's well intentioned but exhausting. So
having someone there to be like the gatekeeper is really helpful. Um. Yeah,
I understand what this can look like, what great can
look like, what depression can look like, and then it
can look different for everybody, and that it does involve
a lot of extremes. Um. And when you are going
(35:04):
through something that's situational something A lot of things I
read said to watch out for signs of depression. In
the long term, they don't go away. I also learned
that apparently recovery takes eighteen and twenty four months on average.
What I swear this was Samantha's suggestion. And I feel
like it's very selfish because I'm like, Annie needs all
of this health right now, please check check in on her.
(35:26):
But it was your idea. It was this is my idea. UM,
and take care of yourself too, Yeah, don't lose sight
of your own your own needs. UM. Not doing so,
you can't be there for the other people in your life. UM.
And there's I found this really cool thing called the
(35:47):
Ring theory about the circles of comfort from Susan Silkinberry Goldman.
It was a article from the l A Times, but
it just shows how like you need to even if
somebody going through something terrible and you can, you've got
to take care of them. But then you've got to
find something else to take care of you. And I
(36:08):
think I'm gonna come back with as we're talking about
people who are struggling through depression and just any level
of depression, whether it's situational wornership, whether it's atypical, whether
it's postpartum, whether it's UM, major depressive disorder. As I said,
I think you have to be able to recognize other
people need you, and sometimes those are the strongest, they're
(36:29):
the ones that need you the most. And I think
that's kind of been one of those selfish things for
me as well, because I do this as a living
a social worker and UM, my coworker. She is the
strength of her family. I am. I'm in awe of
all the things she does and and she needs to
be checked up on. And I know for her if
(36:51):
she listens to this UM she is willing to take
the help, but doesn't ask for it. She tries to
distance her stelf. But it's hard when it's maybe family,
or when maybe it's just your job and you have
to deal with it. If you're struggling with emotion or
lack of relationship, or because of a relationship, these are
so many things. Those who seem to be the strongest
(37:13):
that do all of these things, make sure you're checking
in on them, because there's also the same people who
need that help, and sometimes you never know what's happening
with their lives. They may be the loud genuinely kind,
you know, bubbly people, but there's so many things that
they're struggling with that you don't see the same thing
with anybody you know actually has depression and you just
don't see them for a while. Check in, Please check
(37:35):
in UM for those of you who are struggling and
you see the signs for yourself. You know your body,
that's the good news. Listen to your body. Listen to
your body when you know that you need some help.
Listen to your body when you know that there's something
not quite right. And we're not talking once again, not
necessarily about situational things, but just things that are happening
(37:56):
internally that you don't realize is happening. UM again, and
we're talking about what's happening today with all of the
sad videos and all of the things that are happening
around our country, all of the things that we're having
to continue to fight about. Recognize that you may be
taking on more than you know, especially those who have
higher levels of empathy. You're taking in a lot more
(38:17):
than you know those who have higher levels of anxiety,
and jobs such as nonprofit jobs that go and work
in a really high stress area. UM some of law
enforcements as well as emergency responders. All of those people
they really need to be checked up on as well.
We talked about nine one one operators. That's someone that
(38:38):
doesn't get talked to a lot. You're talking about teachers
who are coming in that you may not understand what's
happening in their lives right now, but be aware, be
aware of what's around you as well as again, listen
to your own body. This is a really rough time.
We're upbeat on the show. We are. But the good
news is on top of that that it is being
more accepted. There are things out there that you can
(39:00):
do UM just going and beyond you know, just therapy,
which is costly and very privileged UM abilities. There's a
lot of organizations out there we talked about previously that
help funding fund for therapy as well as there's organizations
that work with young children who have lost family members
or parents. You have organizations that work with vets, with
(39:21):
the doggies, service dogs, oh my goodness, you'll service animals,
bets with doggies. But I just saw a video about this.
It was fantastic. UM. But all these things and there
are resources out there. Get your good turn off your
brain movies. Find those Find those times with your good
friends when you're sitting and doing nothing inventing about whatever.
You need to find the times to be with your
family that if you have a good relationship, just get
(39:43):
a good hug. It's nice to have a nice hug.
I have some really good friends that are really good huggers,
like I will personally like seek about feel like I
need a hug right now. And that's just a few
people who just think squitch you really well, but just
stuff like that. There are things accessible and just being
kind and to yourself into another I think that's important.
(40:05):
I'm done now, be kind kind Um. Yeah. I think
this brings us to the end of our episode on
mental positivity. Uh yeah. For anyone out there who's listening
and this is something that resonates with them, I just
know that you are not alone. You're not alone, Nope,
and you are loved. You are um and we would
(40:26):
love to hear from you. Oh yes, we would love
to be loved. Yes we would. You can email us
at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast
or on Instagram at Stuff. I've Never Told You. Thanks
as always to our superproducer Andrew Howard. Andrew, we love YouTube,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told
(40:47):
You his prediction of Iheartradios How Stuff Works. For more
podcast from iHeartRadio is the ihiar radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You do
know mo
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
I never told you production of I Heart Radios. How
stuff works. For today's episode, it's kind of a follow
up on on one that we did recently on body positivity. Um.
(00:26):
And before we get into it, trigger warnings at the
top for very brief discussions of sexual assaults, UM and suicide.
And yeah, we recently did an episode on body positivity
and you need Antha suggested that we do a companion
episode on mental positivity, which is a broad term that
I think we coined. Are we coining Are we coining
(00:48):
it right now? Maybe? And we just said it because
it is a language but linkage, but it's more of
like mental health, mental health, yes, care, mental health care,
mental care, yes, um, And we'll yeah, well it's a
pretty broad term, but we're gonna we're I guess talking
(01:09):
about this in part because there is a lot going
on in the world and in our personal lives, and
it does seem like, um, there's a lot of mental
health issues impacting women, and um, how we take care
of our mental health something that is always good to discuss, um,
and how we can support each other, right, I mean,
it's been a rough few years for many non binary
(01:30):
and female identifying population, and whether it's due to situations
or just overall physical and emotional taxation due to the environment. UM,
I've seen more and more of my really close and
dear friends suffer without considering enough about their mental health.
And when they do, and when I do, oftentimes, UM,
we add on more guilt for actually taking care of ourselves.
(01:51):
And I say that again as I'm one of those
that does this. And of course I'm not trying to
make this a self help podcast necessarily. I'm not about
bad I'm not license therapist in any way, but I
think there's something to be said to making sure you
are friends in this minty world and those around remember
to give themselves or ourselves permission to care for ourselves
and not forget that there is a lot of biological
(02:13):
and mental reason as to why sometimes things just feel
like it's too much. Yeah. Absolutely, And UM, one thing
we wanted to discuss in this UM this depression. Right,
So that's going to be kind of the linkash. So
when we say mental health, UM, I'm doing a broader
We're talking about a broader term of depression, just an
overall overwhelming feeling as well as with anxiety, but I'm
(02:35):
kind of linking it more to depression, the sadness, um,
the giving up, the hopelessness. So that's what we're gonna
focus on today. And there are many different types of depression.
It's not just the simple I'm depressed, although you know
you don't have to say anything other than that to
ask for help. That that's just a good term and
it is what it is. But it's helpful to have
a definition and understanding of what maybe an underlying issue
(02:57):
that we should be talking about. So out of the
mini and plethora of I'm sure identifications and actual titles,
here are a few, um, some of the ones that
are gonna be more familiar and probably a little more used,
um in the public world as opposed to the private world.
Do you know what I mean? UM, Major depressive disorder,
which is a severe form of persistent depression. There's a
(03:20):
feeling of loss of interest in activities or general depressed mood,
which has to be part of the diagnosis. So there
are several symptoms in several criteria that has to meet,
and that's one of the big ones that people know.
It's very severe in its diagnosis. The persistent depressive disorder
is used to be known as the dysthymia or a
low grade persistent depression, which could lasts two years or longer,
(03:40):
so it's persistent but not as severe as major. And
then you have the postparted depression or depression due to
infertility or pregnancy at the same time, so it's kind
of all that linkage with that hormone um or the
lack of Then you have the premistral disporte disorder which
is PMDD, which is pretty severe and I know we
use some types of birth control to control that as well.
UM seasonal effective disorder, you all know what that is.
(04:02):
You get sad in the wintertime. Atypical depression which is
not persistent, but a pattern of depressive symptoms. So things
can happen um and you just constantly feel depressed here
and there. Is not necessarily persistent. And sometimes when you
have a good thing happened, you're like, hey, everything's fine now,
but then you hit right back to and then you
have the situational depression or stress response syndromes, not necessarily
(04:24):
a psychiatric diagnosis, but it can occur due to stressful
life events or situations. I know that's pretty common for
a lot of us. And as we're going through many
of things, yea many of things. UM, I think that's
something to keep in mind. It's also important to know
that people may have varying forms of depression which can
be diagnosed based on timing, types of symptoms, and an
(04:45):
actual chemical and biological differences in an individual. And multiple
types of depression can actually be diagnosed simultaneously, so you
could have major depressive disorder and persistent depressive disorders. Is
can be a dual thing. You can have his partum
with major depressive So there's many many linkages that we
can't just say is just just this. Um. I'll also
remember hormones and thyroid issues can cause major roles in
(05:09):
depression and mood as well. And we do have some
statistics from Mental Health America for you, and estimated twelve
million American women suffer from clinical depression annually, about one
in eight will develop it at some point in their lifetimes.
And yeah, all kinds of things go into depression. Genetics, hormones, reproduction,
biological factors like premnstrual syndrome and fertility, childbirth, menopause, and
(05:31):
societal factors like work stress, family responsibilities, sexual assaults, and poverty,
and interesting in left just because we were talking recently
about the daughter syndrome UM dutiful daughter syndrome rather and
females being the main caregivers, actually they are high risk
for depression just on top of that. But even so,
on top of that, if you're UM caring for a
person who hast dementia, it's twice as likely that you
(05:52):
will be diagnosed with depression because of that stress level
and the likelihood of isolation and in itself and just
not able to cope and not being able to care
for oneself. So I thought that was interesting to throw
out there too. Write over fifty of women believe depression
is a normal part of aging and menopause and do
not seek treatment for it, and that's where they think, UM,
their depression is coming from, right, And actually depression in
(06:14):
women could have a misdiagnosed rate as high as fifty percent.
So that's and I thought that was fascinating just to
know that women in general can still be misdiagnosed, even
though we may be a little more vocal than the
opposite sex, UM, but it's still misdiagnosed often UM and
as any stage earlier. Half the women who are diagnosed
don't even seek treatment. Over fifty of women think that
(06:36):
depression is totally normal for two weeks or longer after
giving birth, and that is one of the number one
reasons people and those identifying as female oftentimes don't seek treatment.
They believe it will pass, or it would be better,
or just it's just better to wait it out. And
oftentimes films will not recognize suppression as being clinical. I
think the term master depression is a reference to not
feeling normal or like themselves, but not want to identify
(06:59):
it as depressed or being depressed, and there is a
likelihood like myself, I don't realize I'm going through a
depressive episode UM until the physical signs actually come out.
So my physical signs are fatigue and even muscle pains
and over excessive need for sleep because a constant tiredness,
which is fatigue. And it was noticed sometimes that the
(07:19):
actual feeling of sadness may not always be present, so
I don't sometimes know that I'm sad, I just know
my body slowly shutting down. I have done this a lot,
and even recently after a concern UM after the many
of health concerns that I've had, you know, all the
web in d times I've told you about UM. I
realized that I was depressed. And I've done this throughout
my life. This is something that I can look back on,
(07:40):
you know, hindsight, and realize, oh, that what was happening.
I still sometimes can't even catch it until I'm in
the middle of it, UM, which is quickly accompanied by
my guilt because there's nothing really wrong happening in my life,
which is why I can't recognize why I'm feeling this
fatigued and tired, and I don't nothing. Nothing makes sense.
(08:01):
Am I getting too much caffeine? I'm not getting enough caffeine.
I think that happens a lot of people don't see
symptoms or don't recognize it, or don't want to know
it too. Yeah, I think the exhaustion is the one
for me. If I'm suddenly like it's tired and I
don't want to do anything, that's a pretty good sign.
(08:22):
So we do have some more for you listeners. But
first we're going to pause for a quick break for
a word from our sponsor. And we're back, Thank you sponsor,
(08:43):
And we're back with something that I found out has
an actual name, kind of love it. It's called the
not as Bad as fallacy. And we have talked about
this before, for sure, and I've bet a lot of
you don't even really need actually find it. But it's
generally when you you feel like someone has it worse.
(09:05):
So what right have you to to voice your problems?
Are are complain um? I used to say to a
friend who always felt bad complaining about quote heavy quote
minor things when he knew I had so much quote
major stuff to complain about. And I used to always
tell them, it doesn't make your problem less legitimate, are
your feelings less valid? Don't get trapped in that comparing game.
(09:29):
Comparing problems is not healthy or productive. Although I can
see some use for putting things in perspective now and again,
but not like dismissing it or disminishing diminishing it. And
we did talk about this a little bit in our
TRAM episodes, how women frequently don't report sexual assault because
they feel their experience was not as bad as other women's. Um.
(09:50):
It's almost the opposite of one upping. For instance, if
someone who has clinical depression compares their situation and their
relatively quote lighter problems to some one who doesn't have
depression and is managing better despite having quote heavier problems,
they might not seek help, and they might internalize that
in a negative way. They might experience all sorts of
(10:10):
negative outcomes. And many of us get our self worth
in part from perceived strength and resilience, which might keep
us from admitting that we need help or might make
our self worth take a massive hit. And that's absolutely me.
I want to be like I'm the strong one. I'm okay,
I'm stable. It is all good. I don't need any help.
Yeah I need a lot of help. Well, we're we're
(10:33):
gonna get through this together. I'm the same way, And
it's good to have friends that know that about you. Right.
We all handle problems in different ways, and they impact
us in different ways. There is no absolute scientific method
for measuring emotional suffering or pain. Yes, some problems are
clearly worse in the scale of things, but we all
know that, and that doesn't mean we should dismiss the
(10:54):
smaller things. Being sensitive and aware about timing is important.
But yeah, I don't, I don't any problem. It just
does it. We all do it, and it's frustrating when
you see someone else do it, but then you do. Well,
it's not as bad as that, right, But in the end,
there's there's plenty of space where everybody have issues and
(11:16):
need to fix it. M oh absolutely, And for for
my recent experience with my dad dying, I didn't want
to burden other people, especially if I knew they were
dealing with their own things. And I didn't want to
ask for help and or bother or upset anybody. Um.
I have a friend who used to say that by
trying not to create problems by asking for help, I
(11:37):
created my own bigger problems and needed more help. I
think that was one of the things I kept telling you.
I'm like, you need to understand we want to help you.
Those who really care about you want to help you,
and when you don't talk to us, it makes us
feel just like how you're feeling about the fact that
you couldn't come to us, and we would much rather
be with you than not and wonder what we could do.
(11:57):
And that's that's one of the big things for everyone
to realize. I mean, I'm talking to myself too, because
in my head I grew up with and this is
something we talked about with the trauma stuff, not wanting
to be in people's way, or not wanting to be
a burden, or not want a feeling like I'm gonna
be rejected, all of those different things, But in actuality,
those who love you and care for you would much
rather be there with you than not know what happened
(12:20):
and come back to, oh my gosh, what happened to you?
Why couldn't have done this? And I think when we
talk about like suicide, race and those who have taken
their own lives, I know those who remain have that
excess guilt of what could I have done? I didn't
know um and not everyone, but there's this level and
not that hopefully it's not on We're not gonna victim
(12:41):
blame anybody. But the truth of the matter is, in
any situation, we would rather be there for someone than
to wonder what we could have done. And that goes
for everything. Just someone who's going through any tragedy and
are able to be coming, able to come out of it,
to be able to be hopefully, I would think in
my group of friends, they want to be a help
(13:01):
and they would love to be a part of that.
And it makes and I don't know if it's karma
or whatever, but just insentionally like it. It helps them too.
It is a part of that as well. And I
think when we were talking about, um, you would not
want to tell people. You would not want to tell
people who would gone through similar things I've done, And
I'm like, what are you doing? Like, I don't want
(13:22):
to understand anybod I'm like, but no, this is not
about them. This is about you needing help. And that's
for everyone and anyone. I get that as a social
worker on like, I don't want to think I've gone
through my own things. I can't project this onto you.
But there's a difference than being in time of need
and knowing who you can trust and know you can
talk to and not having to worry about that, right, yes, yes, um,
(13:46):
And that's something I have experienced doing during this whole thing.
Um people expressing to me that they feel bad complaining
about insert whatever problem here, when when you've gone through
such a loss and it's kind of drying it, it's
because sometimes as you might have forgotten about it or
you weren't thinking about it for a second, and then
it's it comes zooming back and I totally get the instinct.
I've done it too, um But I don't see anything
(14:08):
wrong with talking about something else right right, And I'm
not sure why. When we were researching this, I just
started wondering why it's so ingrained in us to dismiss
our own problems um to our own like stressors and anxieties.
Why do you think that is? I think that from
many females and those who identify, and especially those who
(14:28):
are marginalized marginalized females, the idea of survival and persistence
means strength in oneself and the desire to not ask
for help, to be the solution, and not to cause
problems to not be seen, as I said earlier, a burden.
There's also this whole secrecy versus attention seeking and I
think and also a major part of this is being
ignored a bit. Um So when I talk about being
(14:51):
a tension seeking or being secrecy, think about the Appellation
family that kind of became a social They're a group
in itself and there keep it in the family that idea,
and part of it keeping in the family is not
to talk to people, including therapists or anybody else about
whatever situation is wrong with you. So if you're depressed,
put on the happy face. Don't not like anything's wrong
because you're going to bring shame blah blah blah to
(15:14):
the family or whatnot. So it's supposed to be internalized
and and supposed to be UM quiet or the attention seekings,
like if I ask for help, it looks like I'm
just asking for attention, And I think there's this fear
that you're that person, especially for females. Oh, she's just
an attention horror type of mentality. And it's like, Mmm,
can we just go ahead and push that off the
table altogether? Um, And I think again, as I was
(15:35):
talking about being ignored, we already talked about previously, and
I know the episodes many many episodes of not believing women, UM,
doctors not believing women in general. As we stated earlier,
women are misdiagnosed when it comes to depression again up
to fifty of the time, So that may be a
problem as well if you actually do feel like there's
something wrong and you just can't put a finger on it.
(15:55):
A K A. I'm tired on this and this, but
it's not necessarily if it physical as much as mental
health stuff and it's not being believed that you're actually
tired kind of personality. You know, perhaps that's one of
the reasons you don't want to talk about it, because
it's I'm just imagining things once again. Or we can
talk about religion. I know, we brought this up and
the idea that the suddenologies to be handled through faith
(16:17):
in prayer. I was actually told that growing up UM,
I had attempted suicide at the age of twelve, I think,
And at that point in time, I think I told
the story where I went to a friend of mine,
my friend of mine reported to arts school counselor, I
had to sit down school counselor, report to my family,
and my family put me into um a room and
(16:39):
yelled at me about how I embarrassed them, and then
how I could I not come to them into the church,
and and how we have you really been praying about this?
That was the question I was asked UM. And I
was going through a lot of issues, identity issues. I
still am, and but this put this whole level of
shame that I didn't understand growing up UM And because
(17:01):
I was really really into religion up until past college years,
I felt like I was failing if I was not
content and happy and satisfied, And and then the whole
other part with that was, um, why isn't Jesus enough
for me? And please don't get me wrong once again,
I think religion can be beautiful, and I think faith
(17:23):
is beautiful, and I think people need it as a
way of coping, and people believe it and that's fantastic.
But when it comes in overshadows other things such as
getting medical help or get you know there's a problem,
there's a problem there, and and being taught that makes
you want to ignore it because you don't want to
bring shame on yourself because you don't have enough faith.
(17:44):
And then I think also there's this whole fear of
being UH listed or being labeled as crazy, So going
to a therapist, taking medication, going doing any of these things,
if you have a mental health disorder, then you are crazy. See,
And that's not true. I mean even now when we're
talking about the shootings that have happened, and the first
(18:04):
thing they label our mass shooters mental health issues and
that's the only thing you really here as a defense
mechanism um or a defense rather for them, it becomes
this whole stigma they were crazy, you know. And don't
get me wrong, I'm sure there's mental health in there.
I'm sure there's like many, many, many issues for anyone
(18:24):
and everyone, anyone and everyone who feel like they have
the right to take lives or any of that, or
have the right to get something. There's some other problems
we know this, But that label in itself, I think
deters people with actual problems like this to not want
to be labeled. And I think those are some of
the things. I'm sure twenty thousand more reasons could come
about UM. And I know there's tons of research. As
(18:47):
I was reading through it, a lot of it was like,
all right, yeah, you may they may deny this, this
and this and this isn't this, but on the reality
it is now what do you what can you do?
I think that's the next part of the columns that
I've seen when you read through why to how or
or in UM and I thought it was also fascinating
that again men there was a whole comparison to men
(19:11):
versus women, who handles one and how have they handled
how whatever? But it's still the fact that women also
may not have the time to seek out help. Again,
kind of going back to the caregiver's part. But when
you're trying to quote unquote do it all and take
care at all, take care of it all, when do
you have the time? Yeah, you know, Yeah, that's true.
(19:33):
I remember I think I full listened around the podcast
before the first time I went to therapy. The therapist
said to me, I think you don't have time for
therapy and it will stress you out more. And I
was like agreed because I didn't want to know. But
I always thought that was kind of strange. It's it's
almost like there's a level of gaslighting ourselves, like we
(19:53):
don't we're so ready to not believe ourselves. And I
do think it's interesting that we do it for our
past selves too, Like what was that thing about an eighteen?
I didn't know anything and there is some again perspective there,
but we're so ready to just dismiss right. Um. It's
kind of like a reminder that hormones are changing pretty
fast in those times. And so even though yes, drama
(20:16):
queen is the term that oftentimes happened to these teenagers
or whatnot, which is unfortunate, you do need to take
the time to listen because there's a lot. I think
that's when I started cutting. Yeah, it was when in
teenage years and it kind of became a coping mechanism.
And I don't say I'm not a severe cutter, but
let me put that out there. I guess we need
put it this up top two. Um, but like just
(20:36):
the harming indoor without realizing when I'm gripping myself, you know,
like in that way, learned it as a teenager. So
there's a lot of habits that begin there as a
coping mechanism that you need to recognize and go ahead
and talk to your kids or talked to the kids
around you about if you see that as a concern. Yeah,
it's a really volatile time. Um. For some reason, when
(20:58):
we mentioned we're going to do us, the first thing
I thought of was this Seinfeld episode where they're a
coworker of Elaine. I think her name was Toby. She
loses her pinky toe, and Elaine feels something like jealousy
about the amount of sympathy and I think she gets promotion, um,
which Elaine thinks is because of the pinky toe, because
(21:19):
she lost her pinky toe and um. One of the
behind the scenes like commentary and by the way, that
the toe does get reattached if you're concerned. Spoiler, Sorry
that didn't even come into my head. Um, but what.
In the commentary, one of the writers said the inspiration
(21:43):
for the story came from a woman working on a
neighboring show who had lost her baby and allegedly or
coworkers were jealous of the attention their boss gave her. Yeah. Wow,
this is strange, mind blowing, oh Seinfeld. The thing is,
if none of us, all seven billion plus people on
this earth, never discussed our problems because someone out there
(22:06):
has it worse, we would never talk about the things
that bother us. All of us but one person who
drew the most terrible, terrible straws, we wouldn't be able
to have open and honest conversations about what was going
on in our lives. I wonder who that person would be. Goodness,
I don't even want yeah, no, no, no no. Um.
(22:28):
And this is actually important in the context of policy, like, um,
sure the US has Internet censorship, but China has it worse.
Like I've heard that, um, which is true, but it
doesn't mean we don't have a problem, right Or Americans
men's rights activists who point to women in other countries
who deal with more sexism, So what are you complaining about, ladies?
(22:49):
So we see this on bigger, like a larger scale.
And then there's the when I was your age thing,
stop complaining. Um, but yeah, kind of getting away from
the original point. No, but you're right, I think, Um,
that's exactly kind of where I started thinking about this
whole idea. UM. I had a conversation with one of
my good friends recently where she felt her crashing point
(23:10):
was a silly and ridiculous reason. Um, even to the
point that her parents asked if something else happened that
triggered all of these issues, and she felt so weak
and that that she just couldn't understand why she, as
an individual who has a great job and has a
good family at home and everything seemed to be okay,
why she felt like this and why she was being
like this. And the truth of that is it is
(23:31):
not necessarily the issue in itself, but it's what the
depression is hanging itself on. That's the statement that I
wanted to make sure was said and heard that I
know this sounds very self help. Is depression in itself
is its own monster and sometimes we can't explain why
it's there. It makes sense with like death or loss
(23:52):
and tragedy, but outside of that, the monster will use
whatever weakness it may find in an individual to bring
them down. And that's kind of the reminder. Depression exists
and haunts some of us all the time, at all times,
and that's just how it is, how it's gonna be
forever um. And then that for some it's situational or again,
as we talked about, a typical these things happens. You
(24:13):
may just be a sad person in yourself. I think
I'm more sad and cynical than anything else, um, And
I have to pretend and play happy and bubbly when
I have to play that role, and I can go,
I can get it. But typically I just want to
be a house and just silently stare at the screen
and hug my dog. Just the whole idea of shaking
it off or just letting it go, it's not a
(24:34):
reasonable option. Just like any element, there's not always a cure,
and I think you need to be remember every day
can be different. So one day is gonna be rough,
next day may be okay, the next day may be
all of these things happen, and we have flare ups,
and sometimes it's a great day and sometimes it's an
awful day. And sometimes you don't have a flare up,
(24:55):
but you have a flare up every day, or you
don't have one for months at a time. And I
think that's the reminder that I want to talk about,
is because we beat ourselves up so often because of A, B,
C and D. And it can be as easy as
someone who has gone through hell and back coming back
(25:15):
and saying I've been blessed because I'm here and ignoring
that tragedy kind of like thor yeah, you know what
I mean. You know I did that for you, I
brought that, I brought that back for you. Um, the
idea that you know, oh yes, I lost all of
these people, I've lost my pretty much planet planet. He
(25:36):
lost all of this stuff, but but I'm still here.
It's okay, and I'm gonna keep fighting for another day.
And what happened he became a gluten alcoholic, It's okay.
The idea that you can find any reason to say
I'm doing this wrong or I shouldn't be doing this.
But those are the times that when you start ignoring
things bigger issues happen, and I think for me, the
(25:57):
idea trying to hold it together there and then you
fall apart and you see only one solution, which is
by the way, sometimes haunts you as a person who
have suicidal tendicities at times, and I have to check myself. Um,
it's always kind of there and and this is super serious,
and I apologize. I know this is one of those
(26:19):
things that I'm like, I think it's necessary. It's always lingering.
So having a breaking point, even though you have to
remind yourself and hopefully you're in a good middle state
to say tomorrow will be different. Things do change, It
will not always be like this at that moment. You
may not remember that you know what I mean, And
I think I just it needs to be a reminder
(26:40):
that depression is an entity in itself, and it's not
just because it's not necessarily just because something is happening,
and so you need to be careful and be able
to talk and have your support system and be able
to do all these things, which we're gonna talk about
more later. But I did want to bring that out
that it is a thing. Depression is a thing that
is a kind egorical thing that is not necessarily seen
(27:02):
but definitely felt, indefinitely there in existence on its own.
It's like you, you come in with the m CU
reference and then I come in with the Harry Potter yes,
and it clings to everything, negativity of your life, everything, alright, alright,
I love how our positivity episodes are always a bummer.
(27:26):
But we do have some advice for you. But first
we have one more quick break for word from our
sponsor and we're back. Thank you spots here. Okay, so advice, Yeah, yeah,
(27:52):
I think that's this is so the beginning. The first
part for us is to define it and let you
know so you can recognize it. Sometimes having a title
is nice, Oh yeah, absolutely, being able to name it's
very helpful. Right, So that's why we came at the beginning, yes,
and reinforcing the fact that just because not everything is
falling apart doesn't mean you may not be feeling that.
(28:13):
So now coming back with hey, here's some things maybe
could be helpful. And I hope that you know that
you're not by yourself, right because this advice is actually
primarily for other people in your life. So if you're
going through something, um, if you're in the midst of trauma, grief,
or some other massive loss. Um. This is more for
(28:36):
the other people, because it's it's hard when we detect
stress and people that we care about because we often
feel it too, and we want to fix it, and
it cannot necessarily be fixed, and sometimes it can't even
be made better. Um. And it makes you feel powerless
and useless, and no one likes those things. It makes
you face the randomness of life and your own lack
(28:56):
of control, and that's why we feel so uncomfortable and
an adequate or or a lot of us feel that way,
I would imagine. I think it also makes you feel incomplete. Um,
you don't feel whole anymore. And when you lose a
loss of self, loss of a bit of who you
wish you were, but who you once were, there's a
whole identity crisis in that, So that that people need
(29:18):
to recognize that even though you're like, but what about
but there's still that whole trying to piece it back together.
So you have to be careful in dismissing all of
those things from other individuals. And if you feel like
you don't know what to say or do, don't let
that stop you from reaching out. Everyone, almost everyone feels
(29:39):
that way, right And this is one of those moments
where you just come in and say what do you need?
It's okay to ask and they may not give you
a straight answer, but sometimes that non answer helps too,
And I think that's the best way you can do it.
Just come in and say, I don't know how you're feeling,
I don't know how you handle and I don't know
what your coping mechanism is, but what is it? Let
me see if I can help you. What What do
(29:59):
you need from me right now? What can't I do?
And listening is always a good one. Don't avoid the
subject if it comes up, um. Don't force someone to
talk about it either. Get comfortable with silence, get prepared,
be prepared to witness pain and having no solution for it, um,
and don't really try to offer one, because again there's
(30:21):
not necessarily you can give like tomorrow will be better.
You can do things like that. And I say this
as someone who's in the midst of grief. Grieving folks
can be a little weird, um, and they're all different,
so you might feel unappreciated because the other person doesn't
have the energy to contribute to the relationship in the
same way. Um, I feel like I was just kind
(30:43):
of wandering around aimlessly and I would just forget. I'd
be in the middle of a conversation, I would just forget. Um,
So be prepared for stuff like that. UM. Maybe don't
say things like it's God's plan, she or he is
in a better place. You need to move on. Look
at all you have to be grateful for. You should
do whatever insert here they've lived along life, things like that. Um. Also,
(31:07):
maybe don't tag posts with deceased on Facebook or xes
or something like that. Right, It's it's you need to
be very careful and you need to get permission. One.
This is not necessarily about you, And I say that
of course if that are your significant other, and do
what you need to do to grief and such. Um.
But if you're a friend of a friend who you
(31:28):
did like them, be careful. Yeah, I would also say, um,
with all of these things, validate the feelings of an individual.
So instead of saying God has a plan for you,
just listen and just say, oh my god, you know so,
how are you feeling? What do you what do you
feel about this? What can again coming back with what
can I do? Whatever, We're just sitting with them and
(31:49):
ask how are you feeling about this? And then listen,
because if maybe that person is religious and they say, yeah,
I appreciate the time, they're in a great better place,
celebrate that with them. That's fantastic. Go ahead and with that.
But again, not everyone grieves this way either, And that's
the same thing for anyone who's going through depression. And
(32:11):
it has no trauma or tragedy in it, there's no
reason they have to have a reason. Just ask what
can I do again? Listen, sit and listen. Of course,
it's always nice to hear you love them. Yes, I'm
sure they'll take that in anyway, because I would love
that being appreciated. It is always always nice. Absolutely, um
(32:32):
checkens chickens are great them for the long haul too,
especially on big days if we're talking about something like
all days, anniversaries, birthdays. I found this quote grief last
longer than sympathy. Uh. And in those first weeks months,
people usually don't know what they want, our need, so
by the time they've figured it out, people have stopped
asking a lot of times. And I can tell you
I am afraid like I'll wake up at night, I'm
(32:53):
like one day, people check it off, so very important,
very important. Well, and with that, I would add, it's
not about you. So just because you're uncomfortable, sorry, you
need to deal with it now. Of course it is
something because you have PTSD and you have trauma. Of course,
take care of yourself and look look to yourself and
(33:14):
see what you need to do is well. But if
you're someone that has good friends, you should also be
a good friend and not everyone. And everyone's going to
experience something sometimes right, and some things may be uncomfortable,
and I think I dealt with that with my own
PTSC triggers and sexual assault stuff. And and of course
obviously we're gonna hear we're hearing so much now, so
(33:36):
many things today. But one of the things that shut
me down real hard with a couple of friends of
mine is just them dismissing me or be saying they're
uncomfortable and saying that I'm being inappropriate when it's my
own experience. You don't, please don't be that people, Please
don't because I'm sorry it makes you feel bad because
you've never dealt with that. But you need to take
(33:57):
the time and think what can I do to hell?
But not? Oh my god, how to avoid this? Right right? Um?
And one that you've been a good piece of advice
that you brought up a couple of times is offer
practical helpful things like getting groceries, food, taking care of errands,
covering something at work. And yeah, don't depend on the
person to call you because they probably won't offer concrete
(34:20):
things with times, and make sure to ask. Things become
very precious in grief. Um. Something might look like trash
or laundry to be washed, but it might be a
precious item of the dead or an x. Um. Be
sure to check also for the long haul, your help
might be even more valuable later. Run interference. Yes, that
(34:41):
was so nice. When someone is going through something, everyone
wants to help and that's well intentioned but exhausting. So
having someone there to be like the gatekeeper is really helpful. Um. Yeah,
I understand what this can look like, what great can
look like, what depression can look like, and then it
can look different for everybody, and that it does involve
a lot of extremes. Um. And when you are going
(35:04):
through something that's situational something A lot of things I
read said to watch out for signs of depression. In
the long term, they don't go away. I also learned
that apparently recovery takes eighteen and twenty four months on average.
What I swear this was Samantha's suggestion. And I feel
like it's very selfish because I'm like, Annie needs all
of this health right now, please check check in on her.
(35:26):
But it was your idea. It was this is my idea. UM,
and take care of yourself too, Yeah, don't lose sight
of your own your own needs. UM. Not doing so,
you can't be there for the other people in your life. UM.
And there's I found this really cool thing called the
(35:47):
Ring theory about the circles of comfort from Susan Silkinberry Goldman.
It was a article from the l A Times, but
it just shows how like you need to even if
somebody going through something terrible and you can, you've got
to take care of them. But then you've got to
find something else to take care of you. And I
(36:08):
think I'm gonna come back with as we're talking about
people who are struggling through depression and just any level
of depression, whether it's situational wornership, whether it's atypical, whether
it's postpartum, whether it's UM, major depressive disorder. As I said,
I think you have to be able to recognize other
people need you, and sometimes those are the strongest, they're
(36:29):
the ones that need you the most. And I think
that's kind of been one of those selfish things for
me as well, because I do this as a living
a social worker and UM, my coworker. She is the
strength of her family. I am. I'm in awe of
all the things she does and and she needs to
be checked up on. And I know for her if
(36:51):
she listens to this UM she is willing to take
the help, but doesn't ask for it. She tries to
distance her stelf. But it's hard when it's maybe family,
or when maybe it's just your job and you have
to deal with it. If you're struggling with emotion or
lack of relationship, or because of a relationship, these are
so many things. Those who seem to be the strongest
(37:13):
that do all of these things, make sure you're checking
in on them, because there's also the same people who
need that help, and sometimes you never know what's happening
with their lives. They may be the loud genuinely kind,
you know, bubbly people, but there's so many things that
they're struggling with that you don't see the same thing
with anybody you know actually has depression and you just
don't see them for a while. Check in, Please check
(37:35):
in UM for those of you who are struggling and
you see the signs for yourself. You know your body,
that's the good news. Listen to your body. Listen to
your body when you know that you need some help.
Listen to your body when you know that there's something
not quite right. And we're not talking once again, not
necessarily about situational things, but just things that are happening
(37:56):
internally that you don't realize is happening. UM again, and
we're talking about what's happening today with all of the
sad videos and all of the things that are happening
around our country, all of the things that we're having
to continue to fight about. Recognize that you may be
taking on more than you know, especially those who have
higher levels of empathy. You're taking in a lot more
(38:17):
than you know those who have higher levels of anxiety,
and jobs such as nonprofit jobs that go and work
in a really high stress area. UM some of law
enforcements as well as emergency responders. All of those people
they really need to be checked up on as well.
We talked about nine one one operators. That's someone that
(38:38):
doesn't get talked to a lot. You're talking about teachers
who are coming in that you may not understand what's
happening in their lives right now, but be aware, be
aware of what's around you as well as again, listen
to your own body. This is a really rough time.
We're upbeat on the show. We are. But the good
news is on top of that that it is being
more accepted. There are things out there that you can
(39:00):
do UM just going and beyond you know, just therapy,
which is costly and very privileged UM abilities. There's a
lot of organizations out there we talked about previously that
help funding fund for therapy as well as there's organizations
that work with young children who have lost family members
or parents. You have organizations that work with vets, with
(39:21):
the doggies, service dogs, oh my goodness, you'll service animals,
bets with doggies. But I just saw a video about this.
It was fantastic. UM. But all these things and there
are resources out there. Get your good turn off your
brain movies. Find those Find those times with your good
friends when you're sitting and doing nothing inventing about whatever.
You need to find the times to be with your
family that if you have a good relationship, just get
(39:43):
a good hug. It's nice to have a nice hug.
I have some really good friends that are really good huggers,
like I will personally like seek about feel like I
need a hug right now. And that's just a few
people who just think squitch you really well, but just
stuff like that. There are things accessible and just being
kind and to yourself into another I think that's important.
(40:05):
I'm done now, be kind kind Um. Yeah. I think
this brings us to the end of our episode on
mental positivity. Uh yeah. For anyone out there who's listening
and this is something that resonates with them, I just
know that you are not alone. You're not alone, Nope,
and you are loved. You are um and we would
(40:26):
love to hear from you. Oh yes, we would love
to be loved. Yes we would. You can email us
at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast
or on Instagram at Stuff. I've Never Told You. Thanks
as always to our superproducer Andrew Howard. Andrew, we love YouTube,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told
(40:47):
You his prediction of Iheartradios How Stuff Works. For more
podcast from iHeartRadio is the ihiar radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You do
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