Monday Mini: Behind the Curtains

Anney and Samantha pull back the curtains on the self-doubt that plagues us as podcasters, as women, and as people. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
Never told your protection to I Heart Radio. Okay, Annie,
we are doing something a little different for today's Monday Mini,
and I think it's appropriate because it is the new year,
and there are so many things that have happened in

(00:28):
our lives the last two years, our whole lifetime, and
a lot of changes that have happened. So you and
I are kind of just having a really open, candid,
kind of tearful, go ahead and put that out there
conversation about we're pretty much evaluating ourselves in this profession, right,

(00:49):
This is kind of the conversation we're having. So I
have a question and it has it's kind of do
an the leap because I found this fascinating. And if
you haven't listened to our our sponsored episode about and
just like that, the new Sex in the City series
like continuation, you should go listen to it because I
am One of the things that we were very amused

(01:11):
by was that Carrie's new job or career path is
now podcasting, right, and we both had a moment of
like what are we relevant or horovery out of out
of think like which one is it? And one of
the first critiques we have, like, why are they treating
this like it's a radio show? Ye, the way that

(01:33):
they were just having like it looks I don't know,
what did you think it did look like a radio show?
And I'm a terrible person who don't remember the third
because it's Carrie and Shane. The third person is an
actual person. I forgot his character name, yes, but he
to me feels like like a disc jockey, like the radio,

(01:55):
like whoa whoa of sound effect. Maybe he's supposed to
be Joe Rogan, that kind of what I'm getting. But
so I guess those kind of podcasts exist, but they're
so far away from what we do and what and
this is my personal taste what I would prefer to
listen to, and that's just not what I see very often.
And you know, to me, like, yeah, we come from

(02:16):
our closets to do this and we have been doing
it for years, so I it looks very different than
what I would associate how podcasting looks and sounds. Um,
but yeah, I get I definitely radio show vibe, but
I felt right the awkward like interview questions that just
sit and you I'm guessing like we are very heavily edited,

(02:37):
as we've spoken about previously, and if you've ever talked
to me in person, you know that I am awkward
as hell and I don't know what is happening. I'm
going to blame it on the pandemic and my aging.
I'm losing words left and right to the point that
I have to describe it to the point that any
will guess it like you've gotten really good at sam
speak as we say, because it's it's flying out of

(03:00):
my head all the time, to the point that I'm like,
this is my job. I'm concerned, and yeah, that's kind
of the thing is this is an interesting job. And
in comparison to when I used to do social work
UM and being a case worker, working on the grounds,
working one on one, doing case management, doing problem solving,
like I went to school for that, I was trained

(03:23):
for that. I came into a position I stepped away
because it got to triggering and traumatizing, and then came
back to it and loving working with the teens and
trying to have solutions. And of course there's a lot
about the system that I didn't like, but I knew
I was good at it. I knew was something that
I was ready for and I had his personal experiences

(03:45):
for it. So as you and I are talking, I
woke up yesterday and I do this back and forth,
through this back and forth, and people who follow my
Twitter probably think I'm the world's saddest sac human being,
and you're not too far off, because I am really
just racked with anxiety and self doubt. And when it

(04:07):
comes to this profession, I feel like it's so in
front of me that that all of my mistakes are
so right there that it's almost breathtaking in a in
a like, I just I just want to roll up
in a ball and step away, like it is alarmingly
shocking to me. How um, I have not only increased

(04:32):
in my criticisms of myself, but I feel like I
am so unqualified for this position. And at the beginning
I was so excited making jokes about how it's never
leaving and oh yeah, I get to be a part
of something different and changing. And now I'm here, going
why am I? Why am I here? And you have

(04:54):
been in this industry for a long time, this is
your industry, this is what you know, correct other than
teaching outside of the US, fleeing from government. Yes, yes,
I mean I didn't go to school for it, but
I have been doing I've been within this industry twelve

(05:18):
years now, hosting for I think three or four years now, right,
So this is your thing. This is you have been
at the beginnings, like when you were there before it
was popular, you were there before it was cool. You're
one of those in Congratulations and you were talking about
the fact that you also have these same doubts to
the point that anxiety it's almost anxiety inducing that you

(05:42):
panick before we record, right, Yes, um so even years
into this, and I know we actually discussed this recently
on an episode. Samantha and I handle stress very differently.
But one of my things is I still I think
when I first started hosting Savor, my co host Lawrence,
she made a joke and she was like, it looks

(06:04):
like you're riding a plane in turbulence, because I was
just gripping my chair so hard and I was so tense,
and like, going back and listening to those old episodes,
I'm like, thank you all for sticking around. It's clear
I was like one second away from panicking and clearly
also trying to get people to like me. In a
way that people can tell that you're trying to get

(06:25):
you know, like you. Um, but no, I do still
feel it. I still get nervous. I'll still like lie
awake at night and question every what if I didn't
say this, or what if I am passing along something
toxic and I don't know it? Like, I'll just get
so in my head that it prevents me from doing

(06:47):
the best that I can be, I think because I'm
just so like, yeah, anxious, anxious and full of self
doubts still right now, I guess for podcasters it's awards seasons,

(07:13):
listical season, um, so many things where we are being
compared to different people. And I've already talked about, you know,
looking stupidly at the reviews, but hey, I actually did.
Let's see one where one of our listeners and I
love you, uh defended me and thank you so much.
You have no idea to the person who did this

(07:35):
made me smile so big because I was like, oh,
someone truly than back and it was very good to
see and kind of see. But it is it. It's
a whole new world of being in public as this is.
And and on top of that, um, I have the
anxiety of if my family or if people I know

(07:55):
from past, here's this, He's gonna drive a bigger wedge
between us and I know the us um and fearing
that not not feeling the same. They were so proud
of me when they knew I was working to help children,
and they feel like, this is such a slap in
the face and this is not helping as much. They're
not necessarily shaving me for it, but they're definitely not
telling people what I'm doing as they used to. So

(08:17):
that on top of the fact that we are in
a field and our niche subject is so scrutinized that
I get to the point that I had come in
I was like, kay, I can do social media. Yeah no,
I'm done. I'm like, I am so scared of doing
saying the wrong things, taking uh someone's statement and uh

(08:39):
taking away someone's voice or missed misstepping into this because
it's not very forgiving. I will say that, like, unless
they truly listen, oftentimes they get a small snippet, it's
not forgiving and you just get raged on the coals.
And don't get me wrong, Accountability is necessary, and I'm
all all about accountay, But because of that, the fear

(09:03):
that I'm going to say something wrong, do something wrong, uh,
give information wrong, pronounced this wrong. There's so many anxieties
that me as a person who is super awkward, who
has an absolute fear orphan mentality is what I used
to call it, which is kind of degrading that the
fear of rejection and not being wanted is my primary

(09:25):
personality trait. Like I hate to be letting that focused
on it, but literally being in an orphanage or puts
me in that realm and so me hoping to have
changed and so excited by these opportunities. And please no,
I'm not complaining. I'm not complaining, and I know that

(09:47):
I am. I it should be grateful, and I am
grateful for being in this place. But I had never
recognized the true like I have never had to be
so as often as I am a self critical, the
true weight of being somewhat vulnerable in public like this

(10:09):
is such an overwhelming like to the point, like I
just said, I think you had five new host I
know you've done, You've We've been working so hard and
it was such a long journey and you and I
get alone so well, to the point that our coworkers
are laugh about the fact that we come in together
like we are come as a pair now, and I'm like, yes,
we do. I will never be without any thank you

(10:31):
for asking, but like that that that we are truly friends,
we are truly there for each other, but that this
level like I don't know, I don't think I'm good
at this, and please no, this is not me ex
fishing for compliments, but just having these moments waking up
going I, I'm not good at this. Why the did

(10:52):
I think I could be good at this? Yeah? And uh,
I'm most of you listeners, Yeah you're You're fantastic and
awesome and this is not Again, I always feel like
we're not when we make these like conversations. When we
have these conversations, it's not really we're not trying to
single out or have like, you know, conversation with you

(11:16):
through this podcast in that way. But yeah, I totally
hear you. And I remember when I was first approached
to be on this show. It took me like months
months of them trying to convince me to do it
because I was just like, I'm not going to be
good at it. I'm not going to be good at
it and and then having that doubt like every day,

(11:39):
and it is hard. We've discussed so many of these
issues before. What makes it complicated of being vulnerable in
that open space and having people comment on it, which is,
you know, fine, A lot of times those comments are great,
but it's so strange to me, Like, I'll get so
scared about sharing something that I think shouldn't be scary
at all, but but it's just so important to mean,
it's so personal to me, and to have someone come

(12:01):
in and be like, no, right, that's worthless. There has
no value, And that's one of my big That's one
of the things that I struggle with. And it's interesting
to me because I I've made comments about this and
I've sort of joked about this, but I always feel
like I'm one annoyance away from people being like, oh,

(12:23):
she's not worth being around. And so to do that
in a public space of when you're already pretty insecure
about that stuff, it is hard. And then there's so
many things and this is sort of technical, um, but
there's so many things that as someone who's worked here
for a while you can take for granted. So, for instance,

(12:46):
some of you have written in about this and asked me, like,
why is it you do, um, you introduce Christina in
this way versus how you introduced another podcast or or
something like that. And it's literally because I'm usually just
copying what the person did before me, right, and I'm not.
I've never been I was there right when Savor started,

(13:09):
but I was new, so I was taking my tips
from Lauren that was over there. So I've never been
the one that like started something totally from scratch. And
so it's kind of like then, you were trying to
fit yourself into how you think this works, and you
might be comparing yourself to other hosts or how they

(13:29):
did it, and maybe that's just not how you do it,
and so you constantly feel like a sense of failure,
which is what we talked about in our very first
episode together. And here we are, right, I mean and
and honestly we're coming background and we're wanting to give
you a peek behind the curtains a because people think

(13:50):
we do someone have it together, um, because we are
heavily edited. Christina is a magic maker, Andrew was a
magic maker. Andrew said me, you did send me a
short clip recently of me just loving and carsoning the
entire time. So I do love those alments too, but
it is as something like to see that we're having
moments of trying to figure it out ourselves. I'm coming

(14:12):
into a space that I know nothing about, so I
have tons of questions. The one thing you know about me,
I'm not gonna hold back when it when I'm confused,
like I need to know so I can unravel this.
But what does that look like? And even to the
fact that I'm having to analyze when people are critiquing
the way I speak my voice, I'm like, honestly, it's

(14:33):
because I spoke Korean till I was eight years old,
miscommunicated with my family because they could not speak Korean.
I then had an a North Georgia Mountain accent on
top of my Korean accent, which helped develop my pronunciation inabilities.
Especially if you listen to someone who was speace fluent

(14:54):
Korean come in and speak English, you know there's some
differences in the way things are pronounced. That's the act
scent when people talk, that's an accent. That's actually part
of the way I speak. But I did not realize
it until I was on a podcast and I was like,
why do I sound like that? Oh, And when, of

(15:15):
course my friends like you and people that I talked
to like you don't have an accent, I'm like, no,
that it's there. It just a part of my cadence
because it is a part of the accent and the
way I learned to speak and things develop, all of
these different things, and it's it is, It's partially there.
And I find that interesting that I'm even going that

(15:35):
far to again analyze it, for of course I'm very
analytical of everything anyway, of these things because I'm being criticized,
because I'm being told this is and because I hear
it too, I hear it too. I'm like, oh my god,
that's awful. I hate it. I hate doing our Q ways,
which is when we listen to ourselves by the way.
I hate it. This is been a nightmare for that

(15:56):
trying to figure that out. But I think one of
the biggest things that I am trying to figure out
for myself as a woman of a color, a person
of color in the space is I have done so
well at being invisible and trying to blend in into
a white space, into the space that was not seemingly

(16:17):
developed for me and then trying to be there and
if I don't do it to the best of my abilities,
I am shaming whatever whoever would claim me in that group.
Does that make sense? Which is rare for me in general,
and being ostracized and so therefore wanting to be small,
wanting to disappear, and then thinking, oh, I think I

(16:40):
do have something to say, and then feeling like I
didn't say it appropriately, right, Yeah, I mean, it's it's
one of those things that frustrates me a lot about
being any marginalized person. It's it feels like there's more responsibility,
and then every intersection there in there's more responsibility two

(17:05):
represent and of course you can never represent an entire
race or in time gener all that stuff, but you
feel that responsibility of like I've got to do it
well and do it right, and and so many of
these things that we're talking about. It's we have to
have these conversations, and we want to have these conversations,
but that kind of like fear and self doubt, which

(17:25):
can come from so many different avenues, and that fear
of like being wrong, can hold you back and so
you don't. It becomes like a cyclical situation. Where it's like, well,
I can't be perfect, so I might as well not
say anything at all, which is not true, but that
it gets in you of like, well, I'm not doing

(17:47):
this well, or I'm not doing this right, or what
if I misspoke or all of this, and it can
be pretty pretty exhausting. Oh I'm tired. I think you're
not both tired. Maybe it's the end of the year
trying to push and cram everything together so we can
get enough content out there that we don't feel like

(18:09):
we're slacking, which is not true. I do want to
in this wine session of mine UM with this that

(18:30):
I do really appreciate what you have done, and I
think you really laid out great foundation things that I
cannot keep up with your standards. Uh, I'm just playing,
not because you're putting it on me, more so that
I'm like, Okay, we are very different people when it
comes to UH working styles. You're on top of it

(18:51):
and I am ten days late UM typically. But I
really do appreciate that you have really done UM so
much for this podcast and you've had to rebrand it.
You've had to rebrand it for yourself because yeah, we
went through a whole influx of different hosts. We know this,
and we know that they are those hosts are amazing

(19:11):
and it's hard to like live up to. It's really
hard to live up to. But you've done a phenomenal
job in keeping it going, keeping it relevant, UM, teaching
me the ways in in podcasting, because like I said,
I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, still
trying to figure this out. And I really do appreciate that.
I love our friendship, and I really you are probably

(19:34):
one of my closest friends. I mean, for sure, in
the pandemic, you were the only other person I saw UM,
and it was genuinely loving. I loved UM being able
to share what you love because for me, I don't
have those connections and you do. And again we've talked
about the differences between you and I and how we
gravitate and really uh clean to things, and I am

(19:57):
less likely to be attached to things, and You're more
likely to be attached to things and passions. And it's
really beautiful to watch you love something. It is contagious,
It is a delight, and it does make you feel
a part of a community just to be able to
witness it. So all of that says I love you.
I really appreciate everything you've done. And even though I'm

(20:20):
like I want to quit, I know because you are
the partner in this that I I'm not failing because
you're you're part of this and you don't fail. So
I just want to say I love you and I
thank you for that. And I love our listeners who
have are die hard and supportive, and I know you are.

(20:43):
Please don't think I'm just negative Nelly all the time.
It's just trying to really get a grasp in this
world in general. And yeah, the listener base as one
of the strongest communities and really uplifting communities that I've
been a part of. So I really appreciate you all
as well. Yeah, yeah, Like you really have no idea

(21:04):
how much it means. When it's even if it's just
a note like hey, I really like that episode, it's
like it does yes, yes, And it's weird because podcasts
can be pretty isolating, so it's like you're doing this
and then you don't know what happens when it gets
out there, and you're always like, what if it's terrible?
So even just like a small note like that is
so nice. I love you too, Smith that I'm so

(21:26):
glad you're here. I think you bring such a great
perspective and a treasure our friendship so much. I feel
like I talk about you all the time. I talked
about you all the time to the point people like
does she live with you? People have thought that what's
going on here? Never you mind? Never you mind, and yeah,
always here to provide support. And I think there is

(21:49):
something to be said. I think even though we're talking
specifically about a very niche industry, um, apparently not that's true.
I do think a lot of people can relate to
this to just like not feeling like you're doing good
at your job or well at your job. And I
also I really think that there's something to be said

(22:09):
for systems that we come into that maybe aren't working
for you. Like I thought about this other day when
someone was just like I just worked so much better
at night. But the way we're set up like it's
not that's not gonna help you, and then you're gonna
feel like, well, I'm failing, and I'm failing and I'm failing.
So I'm always a big proponent of kind of thinking, well,
it doesn't have to be done this way. This is

(22:30):
not working for me. So yeah, we wanted to start
the new year because we're just not in a place
of like it's like resolutions, you know what, look behind
the cartons, see the reality. Yeah, yeah, we wanted to,
you know, just show you if you're struggling, if you're tired,
all of those things, we're right there with you. We are,

(22:54):
we are, and we are very very very very thankful
for you. So whatever you're celebrating, if you're not celebrating,
however that looks for you, whatever that looks like, we
hope that you're well. You are in our hearts and
we we do love hearing from you. So if you
would like to contact us, you can our emails Stephaneia

(23:15):
mom Stuff at I Heart media dot com. You can
find us on Instagram and Stuff I've Never Told You
or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always
to our super producer Christina, Seriously, you are amazing. We
appreciate you as well. We do, and thanks to you
for listening stuff under to inspection of Hiart Radio for
more podcast My Heart Radio is if I heard you
app Apple podcast or wherever you listening to your favorite

(23:36):
shows