July 5, 2021 • 16 mins
In light of all the attention brought to conservatorships due to Britney Spears, we discuss what they are and how they disproportionately impact women when it comes to negative outcomes.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I do become to
stephan I never told your production of I Heart Radio.
So Samantha, I know we've talked about Britney Spears before.
Uh do you have a favorite Britney Spears song? I
(00:26):
have so many. I have so many, but I really uh,
I'm a slave for you. I think was such a
big transition for her that I love that video because
I feel like, and not just video, but the song,
but I feel like that was a song for her
to be able to express herself as well as her
dance skills, Like she's been able to dance like that's
(00:47):
one of the biggest things about her. She's an entertainer
and when it comes to dance, she's on point. And
I feel like that one was really able to showcase
all of her dance skills because when you see it
translated with other people trying to do it, the difficulty
level it's pretty high up there. So not to be technical,
but obviously I'm being technical. That's probably my favorite because
(01:08):
I feel like that was the beginning of our transition. Unfortunately,
that was also the like the beginning of everybody really
honing in on her and sexually beyond sexualizing but literally
ripping her apart for becoming a mature adult. So, but
I do love that transition because it felt like I
think we're pretty close in age actually Britney Spears and
I so felt. Uh First of all, you know, there
(01:31):
was a lot of parts that I'm like, man, I
wish I could be that, meaning like her body, her
dance moves, her necessarily her fame, but at least her
like being loved as she was. Uh. So it felt
a little on track, but at the same time like
I could understand that development of like wanting to be
sexy actually just want to know those dance moves. Sure, obviously,
(01:53):
I think that's a great answer. Technicality, I there are
so many it's hard to choose, and depending on the
mood and evening that my answer would change. But I
did want to talk about specifically. When I was in
middle school, my favorite Britney Spears song was Lucky because
I it kind of had like this, I was a
very angsty, you know, like sad teen and still today,
(02:21):
I really loved it. And I feel like a lot
of people have been re examining that song lately because
the lyrics are basically like Oh, she's so lucky, she's
a star, but she's crying from this broken heart. And
as all of this stuff has come out through these
documentaries of the Free Britney Movement, which I'm still like, wow,
(02:41):
free Britney movement is a thing that we're talking about
and in this conservatorship, which is what we're talking about today,
that it feels like maybe there was more going on
in that song, right, right, I think you're right, like
though she didn't write these songs, she may have connected
really closely with that. So right, So you just want
(03:02):
to put a date on this, because this is kind
of happening as well as we are recording. It is
July one, twenty twenty one, and today we are talking
about women and conservatorships. We are going to be talking
about Britney Spears because that is probably the reason a
lot of us have ever heard of it, including me,
because she has been in the news about about her
(03:24):
situation and fighting to get free of it, or at
least free of her father's heart in it. So we're
not going to go into too much detail because it's
a very complicated situation. We're gonna be focusing on the
main details, but we did want to talk about it
because it does, as it turns out, as with a
lot of things, disproportionately impact women in a lot of cases.
(03:46):
So yeah, as she has started speaking out about it,
it was the focus of Finding Brittany the documentary. More
details have come out about her whole situation in her
testimony Britney Spears is testimony that she gave and a
lot of these details were just disturbing and upsetting. Her father,
Jamie Spears, who controls the conservatorship and the management team,
(04:07):
control things like the color of her cabinets, who she dated,
prevented her from going to a doctor to remove an
i U D that she wanted to remove so she
could have more kids, once forced her to perform with
a one and four degree fever, and on a separate occasion,
forced her to take lithium against her will. UM. Not
only that she's having to pay for the lawyers arguing
(04:27):
against her in court, and from what I understand, she
didn't get to choose the lawyers that are representing her.
She opened up about the negative impact of the situation
has had on her life, including depression, difficulties, sleeping UM
and she's called the conservatorship abusive, and experts examining this
situation agree that it is an instance of domestic abuse.
(04:50):
She said that she hadn't been open about it before
because she was embarrassed that it happened to her. A
judge ended up denying her request to remove her father
from her conservatorship as of the day before we recorded this.
So yeah, when I first was researching it, it was
still up in the air. But that's how it turned out, right,
(05:10):
So let's start at the beginning. What is a conservatorship
From Investopia, it is quote. Conservatorship is a legal status
to which a court appoints a person to manage an
incapacitated or incompetent individuals or minors of financial affairs. Such
a person may also serve as a guardian, who is
responsible for establishing and monitoring the physical care of the
(05:32):
individual and managing their living arrangements. In some states, such
as California, which is where this is occurring, both roles
are called conservatorships, with the guardian role term conservator of
the person and the financial role called the conservator of
the estate. These are two ways to establish a conservatorship
for individuals and for organizations or corporations is usually considered
(05:55):
a last resort and ending them is difficult, as we
are witnessing so in California specifically, is to find this way.
Quote a court case where judge appoints a responsible person
or organization called the conservator obviously to care for another
adult called the conservative, who cannot care for himself or
(06:17):
herself or manage his or her own finances. When it
comes to individuals, which is what we're talking about today,
courts usually uphold conservatorships for miners or for adults who
are mentally or physically disabled, people who are deemed by
a professional as unable to make financial, legal, or medical
decisions for themselves. The case of a minor, the conservatorship
typically comes to an end when they reach a team.
(06:39):
People can sue to end their conservatorship if they don't
think it's needed, which is what Britney Spears is doing.
About one point three million Americans are under a conservatorship
or something similar right so, from what I do understand,
he has a petition to end it. However, yet yet
she's asking that her father be removed. It's a little different.
(07:00):
So her conservatorship grants her father Jamie Spears control over
her person and her estate and estimated sixty million dollars.
This was formed in two thousand eight because of some
mental health crisis Brittany was experiencing at the time, and
worth noting she was back to work a few months later.
She constantly works um and this allows her father to
(07:21):
control and negotiate business opportunities. In twenty nineteen, a court
appointed professional named Jody Montgomery has served as a temporary
conservator over Brittany's personal affairs. Ideally, the conservators should be
someone the conservaty is okay with. And there's a lot
more to the story, but this is essentially what's gone down. Yeah,
and I don't know what's going on behind the scenes,
(07:42):
but to me, it seems like she's making money and
doing okay. But on top of that, we talked about
the impossible standards we placed on mother's but as celebrity
and always being watched to that, and it's just a
whole another level because we've all seen those stories, especially
yeah years act where people were very picking apart her
(08:03):
skills as a mother. Also, her dad, Jamie Spears, has
shown some real serious issues himself and the past, so
it's kind of that's the part that keeps getting me
is like, I know, I don't know the whole thing,
but he doesn't seem like the good fit right him. Yeah,
(08:24):
he doesn't. He has issues of his own right and
he has no contact with her kids like they have
that in place, So there has to be a reason
for that, whether he's uh causing drama within the family
and or whatever. But if a court granted a no
contact order, that's a pretty big deal. Yeah. Yeah, So
(08:47):
there's that. And Spears's case is by no means the
norm because of celebrity, and it also is just slightly
outside of what usually happens, but it has highlighted so
real issues at large um with some comparing how Kanye
West has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, just like Spears
and Amanda Bines. But Kanye West was not put under
(09:09):
a conservatorship, while Spears and Fines were, and both of
them are trying to get out of it. Many have
claimed this would have never happened to a male star,
that while men are assumed to be competent, women constantly
have to prove they aren't incompetent and that they aren't emotional.
That we don't need someone usually a man, to manage us.
(09:30):
As we've watched this play out, experts and activists have
been vocal about how this is often used and abused,
specifically against women and people who have a disability. I
know the disabled community has come out in large and
talking about this is shining some lights, and we need
to talk about it in a bigger capacity because there's
so many implications to this. And again it does it
is bringing out the stigma that they can't take care
(09:52):
of themselves, or care for themselves, or make decisions for themselves.
And yeah, and also I know a lot of the
Productive Justice Act of us are very upset about the
i u D. Because just as much as we have
the right to choose not to have children, we have
the right to choose to have children. And she's very
capable from what we've talked about, and we've seen that
she is a capable mother. No one's doubted that, no
(10:14):
one's talked about that as a whole. And just because
she had a crisis moment doesn't mean she lives in
constant crisis, So that needs to be considered as well.
And even for the state of Georgia or the little
that I know or the little though I've dealt with.
When it comes to declaring someone incompetent, it takes a lot,
It takes a lot. And what she did, sure she
(10:34):
had a moment of crisis. Sure that would have been
a typical seventy to our hold. Maybe some uh rehabilitation,
going into a treatment center, crisis center, all of that. Maybe,
But for this long amount of years it seems like
a power play. I mean again, we're definitely on the outside.
We don't know the ins and outs, we don't know
what the courts are seeing. But this has gone beyond
(10:57):
like the amount of money that's a part of this
versation that's concerning. Yeah, And I think the fact that
all of her well I don't know all, but a
lot of her family members have come out and said,
like she's been wanting to get out of this, I
think she should get out of this um. And they
don't really have contact with the father, And that is
(11:17):
like that it is men that are controlling this situation.
That's like a whole other grows layer of it to me, right,
as well as the fact that the mere fact that
he came out Jamie spears the father's put like put
it into court that he has nothing to do with
this and wanted his name removed, but yet he's still
(11:39):
on the conservativeship and that's what got denied to take
him off. There's something this doesn't match, right, How are
you gonna be like, I didn't have anything to do
with this, But the judges like, but you've been involved
and you can continue being involved against her will. Which
that's the other part to that is we I think
we were all kind of confused, like she's just asking
that it change hands. Yeah, why can't there be an
impartial person? I don't. Yeah, like we said, it's supposed
(12:02):
to be someone you agree with. Normally it is somebody
that might be like a guardian type figure, but clearly
that's not the case in this situation. Right then there's
definitely a loss of autonomy when they start blaming that
she's being manipulated by people. And maybe she is to
a certain degree, but she's also a grown woman. It's
kind of just like, if that's her choice to be manipulated,
(12:22):
that's her choice to be manipulated. Yeah, there's a lot
of infantilizing in this whole conversation, which I guess makes sense,
but it's just yeah, hearing how people talk about it
on either side, it's kind of it can be a
little eyebrow rasing, right, And just as the disabled community
would say before and should be noted, anybody with a
(12:45):
mental health issue, anybody with a disability, that does not
mean they're not competent, that does not mean they're not capable.
So I'm not understanding that level of like, Okay, there's
just you have may have a mental health diagnosis, unless
they are a threat to harm themselves or other there's
no need for that. M H. And I'm very very confused. Definitely,
(13:05):
we need to talk about therapy that all these but
this goes further reaching and again yet implies that having
some type of mental health issue or some type of
disability means you can't care for yourself, which is insulting
and very very very very ablest. Yeah again, Um, and
for girls around the world, they are born into male
(13:26):
guardianship or conservatorship. We know this. We've talked about this
even with the purity episode just recently, preventing women from
having control over their own lives and what their lives
represent or how they represent the family. Maybe A two
tends study documented hundreds of cases of abuse with conservativeships
over a period of twenty years. And I think we've
seen that with the how many kids have come out
(13:47):
bankrupt because of their parents and conservators. And a study
out of looked into twenty one cases of financial exploitation
in Minnesota, revealing most of the conservators were family the
verse and most of the victims were women. And yeah,
that's exactly part of when we talked about the financial
abuse uh financial uh control that men have over women
(14:10):
in domestic violence situations. It's number one, um. And people
in these situations have spoken about how painful it is
to be told you can't be trusted with your own money,
the lack of control and fear they experience. Not to
say that these situations are all bad, but there are
a lot of room for abuse and obviously abuse of power,
and that abuse seems to be disproportionately impacting women. Yeah. Um,
(14:36):
And and a lot of the lawyers, and I have
to say, some of the articles that have come out
from lawyers, especially male leaders, have still rankled me because
they're still talking about it, Like, I don't know why
Britney Spears is being so emotional. No one's going to
trust your court like, but a lot of a lot
of lawyers have said, um, you know, any system has
(14:57):
room for abuse, but this situation, action and these numbers
are showing that it's not just like a small problem
like there's a there's a larger issue here. If if
the numbers are this big, so it's certainly something that
we're going to continue to to look into, um and
(15:17):
shine a light on in the meantime. Listeners, if you
would like to contact as you can or email Stuff
India mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can
find us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You,
are on Twitter at Moms of podcast. Thanks as always
to our super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks to
you for listening Stuff I Never Told You. Protection of
I Higher Radio from more podcast in my Heart Radio
(15:38):
is the high Radio app, Apple podcast, or whever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I do become to
stephan I never told your production of I Heart Radio.
So Samantha, I know we've talked about Britney Spears before.
Uh do you have a favorite Britney Spears song? I
(00:26):
have so many. I have so many, but I really uh,
I'm a slave for you. I think was such a
big transition for her that I love that video because
I feel like, and not just video, but the song,
but I feel like that was a song for her
to be able to express herself as well as her
dance skills, Like she's been able to dance like that's
(00:47):
one of the biggest things about her. She's an entertainer
and when it comes to dance, she's on point. And
I feel like that one was really able to showcase
all of her dance skills because when you see it
translated with other people trying to do it, the difficulty
level it's pretty high up there. So not to be technical,
but obviously I'm being technical. That's probably my favorite because
(01:08):
I feel like that was the beginning of our transition. Unfortunately,
that was also the like the beginning of everybody really
honing in on her and sexually beyond sexualizing but literally
ripping her apart for becoming a mature adult. So, but
I do love that transition because it felt like I
think we're pretty close in age actually Britney Spears and
I so felt. Uh First of all, you know, there
(01:31):
was a lot of parts that I'm like, man, I
wish I could be that, meaning like her body, her
dance moves, her necessarily her fame, but at least her
like being loved as she was. Uh. So it felt
a little on track, but at the same time like
I could understand that development of like wanting to be
sexy actually just want to know those dance moves. Sure, obviously,
(01:53):
I think that's a great answer. Technicality, I there are
so many it's hard to choose, and depending on the
mood and evening that my answer would change. But I
did want to talk about specifically. When I was in
middle school, my favorite Britney Spears song was Lucky because
I it kind of had like this, I was a
very angsty, you know, like sad teen and still today,
(02:21):
I really loved it. And I feel like a lot
of people have been re examining that song lately because
the lyrics are basically like Oh, she's so lucky, she's
a star, but she's crying from this broken heart. And
as all of this stuff has come out through these
documentaries of the Free Britney Movement, which I'm still like, wow,
(02:41):
free Britney movement is a thing that we're talking about
and in this conservatorship, which is what we're talking about today,
that it feels like maybe there was more going on
in that song, right, right, I think you're right, like
though she didn't write these songs, she may have connected
really closely with that. So right, So you just want
(03:02):
to put a date on this, because this is kind
of happening as well as we are recording. It is
July one, twenty twenty one, and today we are talking
about women and conservatorships. We are going to be talking
about Britney Spears because that is probably the reason a
lot of us have ever heard of it, including me,
because she has been in the news about about her
(03:24):
situation and fighting to get free of it, or at
least free of her father's heart in it. So we're
not going to go into too much detail because it's
a very complicated situation. We're gonna be focusing on the
main details, but we did want to talk about it
because it does, as it turns out, as with a
lot of things, disproportionately impact women in a lot of cases.
(03:46):
So yeah, as she has started speaking out about it,
it was the focus of Finding Brittany the documentary. More
details have come out about her whole situation in her
testimony Britney Spears is testimony that she gave and a
lot of these details were just disturbing and upsetting. Her father,
Jamie Spears, who controls the conservatorship and the management team,
(04:07):
control things like the color of her cabinets, who she dated,
prevented her from going to a doctor to remove an
i U D that she wanted to remove so she
could have more kids, once forced her to perform with
a one and four degree fever, and on a separate occasion,
forced her to take lithium against her will. UM. Not
only that she's having to pay for the lawyers arguing
(04:27):
against her in court, and from what I understand, she
didn't get to choose the lawyers that are representing her.
She opened up about the negative impact of the situation
has had on her life, including depression, difficulties, sleeping UM
and she's called the conservatorship abusive, and experts examining this
situation agree that it is an instance of domestic abuse.
(04:50):
She said that she hadn't been open about it before
because she was embarrassed that it happened to her. A
judge ended up denying her request to remove her father
from her conservatorship as of the day before we recorded this.
So yeah, when I first was researching it, it was
still up in the air. But that's how it turned out, right,
(05:10):
So let's start at the beginning. What is a conservatorship
From Investopia, it is quote. Conservatorship is a legal status
to which a court appoints a person to manage an
incapacitated or incompetent individuals or minors of financial affairs. Such
a person may also serve as a guardian, who is
responsible for establishing and monitoring the physical care of the
(05:32):
individual and managing their living arrangements. In some states, such
as California, which is where this is occurring, both roles
are called conservatorships, with the guardian role term conservator of
the person and the financial role called the conservator of
the estate. These are two ways to establish a conservatorship
for individuals and for organizations or corporations is usually considered
(05:55):
a last resort and ending them is difficult, as we
are witnessing so in California specifically, is to find this way.
Quote a court case where judge appoints a responsible person
or organization called the conservator obviously to care for another
adult called the conservative, who cannot care for himself or
(06:17):
herself or manage his or her own finances. When it
comes to individuals, which is what we're talking about today,
courts usually uphold conservatorships for miners or for adults who
are mentally or physically disabled, people who are deemed by
a professional as unable to make financial, legal, or medical
decisions for themselves. The case of a minor, the conservatorship
typically comes to an end when they reach a team.
(06:39):
People can sue to end their conservatorship if they don't
think it's needed, which is what Britney Spears is doing.
About one point three million Americans are under a conservatorship
or something similar right so, from what I do understand,
he has a petition to end it. However, yet yet
she's asking that her father be removed. It's a little different.
(07:00):
So her conservatorship grants her father Jamie Spears control over
her person and her estate and estimated sixty million dollars.
This was formed in two thousand eight because of some
mental health crisis Brittany was experiencing at the time, and
worth noting she was back to work a few months later.
She constantly works um and this allows her father to
(07:21):
control and negotiate business opportunities. In twenty nineteen, a court
appointed professional named Jody Montgomery has served as a temporary
conservator over Brittany's personal affairs. Ideally, the conservators should be
someone the conservaty is okay with. And there's a lot
more to the story, but this is essentially what's gone down. Yeah,
and I don't know what's going on behind the scenes,
(07:42):
but to me, it seems like she's making money and
doing okay. But on top of that, we talked about
the impossible standards we placed on mother's but as celebrity
and always being watched to that, and it's just a
whole another level because we've all seen those stories, especially
yeah years act where people were very picking apart her
(08:03):
skills as a mother. Also, her dad, Jamie Spears, has
shown some real serious issues himself and the past, so
it's kind of that's the part that keeps getting me
is like, I know, I don't know the whole thing,
but he doesn't seem like the good fit right him. Yeah,
(08:24):
he doesn't. He has issues of his own right and
he has no contact with her kids like they have
that in place, So there has to be a reason
for that, whether he's uh causing drama within the family
and or whatever. But if a court granted a no
contact order, that's a pretty big deal. Yeah. Yeah, So
(08:47):
there's that. And Spears's case is by no means the
norm because of celebrity, and it also is just slightly
outside of what usually happens, but it has highlighted so
real issues at large um with some comparing how Kanye
West has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, just like Spears
and Amanda Bines. But Kanye West was not put under
(09:09):
a conservatorship, while Spears and Fines were, and both of
them are trying to get out of it. Many have
claimed this would have never happened to a male star,
that while men are assumed to be competent, women constantly
have to prove they aren't incompetent and that they aren't emotional.
That we don't need someone usually a man, to manage us.
(09:30):
As we've watched this play out, experts and activists have
been vocal about how this is often used and abused,
specifically against women and people who have a disability. I
know the disabled community has come out in large and
talking about this is shining some lights, and we need
to talk about it in a bigger capacity because there's
so many implications to this. And again it does it
is bringing out the stigma that they can't take care
(09:52):
of themselves, or care for themselves, or make decisions for themselves.
And yeah, and also I know a lot of the
Productive Justice Act of us are very upset about the
i u D. Because just as much as we have
the right to choose not to have children, we have
the right to choose to have children. And she's very
capable from what we've talked about, and we've seen that
she is a capable mother. No one's doubted that, no
(10:14):
one's talked about that as a whole. And just because
she had a crisis moment doesn't mean she lives in
constant crisis, So that needs to be considered as well.
And even for the state of Georgia or the little
that I know or the little though I've dealt with.
When it comes to declaring someone incompetent, it takes a lot,
It takes a lot. And what she did, sure she
(10:34):
had a moment of crisis. Sure that would have been
a typical seventy to our hold. Maybe some uh rehabilitation,
going into a treatment center, crisis center, all of that. Maybe,
But for this long amount of years it seems like
a power play. I mean again, we're definitely on the outside.
We don't know the ins and outs, we don't know
what the courts are seeing. But this has gone beyond
(10:57):
like the amount of money that's a part of this
versation that's concerning. Yeah, And I think the fact that
all of her well I don't know all, but a
lot of her family members have come out and said,
like she's been wanting to get out of this, I
think she should get out of this um. And they
don't really have contact with the father, And that is
(11:17):
like that it is men that are controlling this situation.
That's like a whole other grows layer of it to me, right,
as well as the fact that the mere fact that
he came out Jamie spears the father's put like put
it into court that he has nothing to do with
this and wanted his name removed, but yet he's still
(11:39):
on the conservativeship and that's what got denied to take
him off. There's something this doesn't match, right, How are
you gonna be like, I didn't have anything to do
with this, But the judges like, but you've been involved
and you can continue being involved against her will. Which
that's the other part to that is we I think
we were all kind of confused, like she's just asking
that it change hands. Yeah, why can't there be an
impartial person? I don't. Yeah, like we said, it's supposed
(12:02):
to be someone you agree with. Normally it is somebody
that might be like a guardian type figure, but clearly
that's not the case in this situation. Right then there's
definitely a loss of autonomy when they start blaming that
she's being manipulated by people. And maybe she is to
a certain degree, but she's also a grown woman. It's
kind of just like, if that's her choice to be manipulated,
(12:22):
that's her choice to be manipulated. Yeah, there's a lot
of infantilizing in this whole conversation, which I guess makes sense,
but it's just yeah, hearing how people talk about it
on either side, it's kind of it can be a
little eyebrow rasing, right, And just as the disabled community
would say before and should be noted, anybody with a
(12:45):
mental health issue, anybody with a disability, that does not
mean they're not competent, that does not mean they're not capable.
So I'm not understanding that level of like, Okay, there's
just you have may have a mental health diagnosis, unless
they are a threat to harm themselves or other there's
no need for that. M H. And I'm very very confused. Definitely,
(13:05):
we need to talk about therapy that all these but
this goes further reaching and again yet implies that having
some type of mental health issue or some type of
disability means you can't care for yourself, which is insulting
and very very very very ablest. Yeah again, Um, and
for girls around the world, they are born into male
(13:26):
guardianship or conservatorship. We know this. We've talked about this
even with the purity episode just recently, preventing women from
having control over their own lives and what their lives
represent or how they represent the family. Maybe A two
tends study documented hundreds of cases of abuse with conservativeships
over a period of twenty years. And I think we've
seen that with the how many kids have come out
(13:47):
bankrupt because of their parents and conservators. And a study
out of looked into twenty one cases of financial exploitation
in Minnesota, revealing most of the conservators were family the
verse and most of the victims were women. And yeah,
that's exactly part of when we talked about the financial
abuse uh financial uh control that men have over women
(14:10):
in domestic violence situations. It's number one, um. And people
in these situations have spoken about how painful it is
to be told you can't be trusted with your own money,
the lack of control and fear they experience. Not to
say that these situations are all bad, but there are
a lot of room for abuse and obviously abuse of power,
and that abuse seems to be disproportionately impacting women. Yeah. Um,
(14:36):
And and a lot of the lawyers, and I have
to say, some of the articles that have come out
from lawyers, especially male leaders, have still rankled me because
they're still talking about it, Like, I don't know why
Britney Spears is being so emotional. No one's going to
trust your court like, but a lot of a lot
of lawyers have said, um, you know, any system has
(14:57):
room for abuse, but this situation, action and these numbers
are showing that it's not just like a small problem
like there's a there's a larger issue here. If if
the numbers are this big, so it's certainly something that
we're going to continue to to look into, um and
(15:17):
shine a light on in the meantime. Listeners, if you
would like to contact as you can or email Stuff
India mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can
find us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You,
are on Twitter at Moms of podcast. Thanks as always
to our super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks to
you for listening Stuff I Never Told You. Protection of
I Higher Radio from more podcast in my Heart Radio
(15:38):
is the high Radio app, Apple podcast, or whever you
listen to your favorite shows.
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